Avoid Interrupting the Flow of Fixed Wing Traffic

I think one of the coolest things was we took off at night. We were leaving a controlled airport in the Cleveland area and we had a warning light come on and man, when I told the tower we just had a warning, come on light come on, he was just like, airport's yours, do what you got to do. You know, such and such airplane stay on downwind. Like they were so cool. When I just, I didn't claim an emergency, but I said, hey, we've just had a warning light come on, we need to return. Man, he was on it like, aircraft's yours, do what you got to do.

When you feel the pressure to fly, but know the right decision is to stay on the ground, hit the hogs, no go and live to fly another day.

Helicopterground.com Chris is hanging around for one more video and he came up with an idea of he has something that he experienced recently with changed his thought process on airport etiquette, you know, patterns and dealing with other traffic. And I thought since he was willing to talk about it, we would share that today because I could come up with, you know, all kinds of stories, but I've told all mine already so I like having a fresh new story coming into it. I'll just say, obviously you got to be really careful at airport, learn how to talk on the radio properly and looking around the pattern and watching for other people in what some people don't always think of as, you know, we're in a helicopter, right? A lot of times we can just use a parallel taxiway. A lot of times we could go to a grass area. There's a lot of things that we can do as helicopter people to stay out of the way of the fixed wing traffic and we're required to anyway, we have to, you know, it's a rig. So share with us what happened with you recently that just made you take a step back and go, moving forward. Here's what we're going to do.

Yeah, so about a week ago I was with my instructor and we were wanting to do a cross country leg. So we left Lansing, flew down to Kankakee, we entered the pattern, there was two or three other fixed wing guys in the pattern and we were going back and forth and staying out of their way and you know, we were trying to do some simulated engine outs and so we're doing 180 autos and straight in autos and and so we were all working really well together in the patterns and we had a caravan come in, big turbine engine, caravan. He came in, he landed, he Was getting a bunch of fuel. So then we got to the point where we needed to get our fuel. So we taxied over to the ramp, sat down, we got fuel. They were in the process of doing all their checks, getting ready to take off. As we got back in this helicopter and we did our checks and pulled up into a hover. And when we were pulling up into a hover, we seen that those guys had left the ramp and they were taxiing down the taxiway to the end of the Runway. So we did all our checks and going through everything, and I called out on the radio, you know, what we were doing. And at that time, I had actually stepped on the pilots in that caravan and didn't know it. And we proceeded onto the Runway and we took off. And as we took off, we hear the caravan come over the radio and say, abort takeoff. We were kinda, you know, shocked when I had. The last time I had seen them, they were at the end of the Runway. You know, we thought they were doing their run up checks, they would be there for a few minutes and we would have time. Well, what we didn't realize is that they had already done their run up, they were taxiing onto the Runway. By the time we got in the air and we heard them abort, they had made up 2,000ft of Runway on a 4,000 foot Runway. And so to think about how close they got to us, you know, it all happened very quickly. So between my instructor and I, you know, we quickly got to 300ft, we made a right turn, you know, to get out of their way in case, you know, you know, there was any issues. I called over the radio and said, hey, sorry, I think I stepped on you. And he said, no problem, you know, I said, okay, have a good day. And so we got back to the airport and we did a little bit of a debrief and, you know, kind of looked at, you know, the situation, what happened, Try and make it a learning experience. And so, you know, we came up with a good idea that basically if anybody else is in that timeframe of taxiing out onto the Runway and they're bigger than us, we're just gonna wait for them. I think that's good airport etiquette, you know. You know, cause we all have to share the same airspace. And so it's important that we all work together. And so he clearly was able to make up more ground than I could in this guy. And so it would have been smarter for us just to stop, you know, pull into a hover, sit Back down, let them take off, let them clear the airspace and then we could have proceeded on.

Yep. Big difference between helicopters and fixed wing. Right. They take off fast and land fast, we take off slow and land slow. So a lot of times some of the issues come just because what we do is completely different and one may not always understand the other as well as they should. They, you know, when we go in for an approach, it's going to be like, you know, five minutes on that never ending approach.

Right.

An airplane pilot may not understand me. Like, God, what's he doing? He's taking forever. It's because we fly our approaches so slow. And the other thing that jumped out at me is in the training environment, people step on each other all the time. You know, it happens frequently and a lot of times it happens by the student. And it's not the student is being rude and just purposely covering people up. But you're out there in the pattern and you're going around and around and they're so focused on trying to learn and do what they need to do that I'll frequently have to go, wait, stop. You know, hey, listen up. Because you keep walking, you keep walking over somebody else that's in the pattern, or somebody's coming into the pattern or leaving the pattern, you have to listen up. And it's just through nervousness, people just get nervous and don't always listen up when they should be listening and not talking, you know, and it can go both ways. Right. I've been accused of not talking enough.

Yeah.

Kind of depends on the environment, but sometimes I think you can be talking too much and you can also be not talking enough. But I think listening to me, the biggest thing I see is people not listening or expecting a call somebody's going to make and just being aware of what's around them.

Yeah. I mean, even myself, still a student, you know, still very new to the aviation industry and helicopters, I still will find myself, especially when I'm going into a towered airspace where I know I need to make a 10 mile call or a 3 mile call and I'm not listening to what everybody else is doing around me and what they're saying. And I'll call in and say, hey, tower, this is me, this is where I'm at. And then you get this awkward 30 second pause, you know, and it's because these guys in the towers, they're doing so many other things, you know, and they're trying to keep everybody safe. And so you just got to be patient and yeah, don't step on people and listen.

And we'll point out that you're a private working on commercial. Yep. So you're commercial student. Have you experienced this yet? If not, I'll elaborate a little bit on it, but have you experienced where a tower gave you an instruction that might be good for a fixed wing but not really good for you? Have you experienced that yet?

Not so much that, but I have had situations where they have wanted to take care of the fixed wing before they took care of me. One time I was in a towered airspace and they actually sent me on a real long downwind and they were getting all the fixed wing guys to wherever they needed to be. And then he turned me to final.

Two miles out of the Runway. Yeah.

And it is what it is. Again, you gotta be patient. They're the boss. You gotta listen to to what they have to say and do it. Just recently, kind of one of my latest things I've been doing is trying to get more comfortable in towered airspace. So last week we flew to Gary airport several times. We flew to Midway. We haven't hit o' Hare yet, but we're going to Lewis o' Hare's a doozy and several other towered airspaces just to get more comfortable with talking to those towers. And I actually had an instance where I told him I was coming. I was at, you know, coming from the east, heading to them. And then he called me back and I accidentally said I was coming from the west at that point, made a simple student mistake.

We all do it.

And then he said, 04 Uniform, I want you to exit the airspace and start over again. And so that's what we did. So we made a right turn, we went back out, and we re entered and we reset up our initial call and we started over. And that was good experience for myself, even for my instructor that was with me, because every airport's different and they're going to communicate what they want differently. So it's just those experiences you have to go through and learn and go through to make you a better pilot.

Yep. And what I tell people all the time is some airports, control towers deal with helicopters all the time, completely fluent with what helicopters do. And that's. Sometimes you might go to a tower where they get an occasional helicopter where they just don't have a lot of helicopter traffic. And sometimes they will give you an instruction that doesn't work for us, like downwind landings, for example. I've had plenty of times where a tower, the airplanes were landing downwind. We'll see 2 or 3 or 4 and 5 knots or whatever. And then they've given me a downwind landing. And I will always say, you know, I'm respectful, of course. I'll just say, I understand your instruction, but that's a downwind landing for me. Can you give me another option, please? Can I, you know, what else could we do here? And they've always accommodated me by just saying that's a downwind landing for me. And I. And I prefer to land into the wind or with a crosswind if I can. So could you give me another option? Yeah, and they've always been cool about that. Sometimes, you know, you have to speak up when they give you something that doesn't really work for you. And it's not, they're not being, trying to put you in danger. They just may not understand that, that for a helicopter, that's not best. Always had pretty good luck with towers. Never really had a trouble other than one time. And I've recently told this story, the controller didn't understand the difference between air taxi and hover taxi. He told me to hover taxi and so I was hover taxiing, but I didn't get across the Runway quick enough. And he's like, I told you to hover taxi. And I thought, well, yeah, and that's what I'm doing. He wanted me to air. He was, in his mind, an air taxi. Was that 50ft or 40 and 40?

Yeah.

He stated the technology wrong and then was yelling at me when he didn't understand the difference or he stated it incorrectly. So that's the only time I've ever had anybody really yell at me. That guy was, I told you to hover taxi. Okay, yeah. All right, well, I'll speed it up a little bit. But hover taxi, speed of a brisk walk, it's not 40 mile an hour, 40 knots.

I think the big thing is just being patient and understanding that, you know, you can start over, they can tell you to exit the airspace and just start over. And there's nothing wrong with that. You know, it's actually if you get confused or you don't know where you're at, you know, you get lost in the airplane, it's real easy just to call up and say, hey, tower, I don't know where I'm at, I can't see you yet. I'm just going to turn around, I'm going to go out and I'm going to start over again.

Plenty of times I've asked for the actual progressive right or I've just said, this is my first time into your airport. I'm unfamiliar. Can you, you know, give me a little more instruction or give me some more details? Right. I've just. Because they just thought I knew where I was going or understood the airport better. And I fessed up, too. When I've like, I'm unfamiliar, I just stayed it. I'm unfamiliar with the airport. If you could assist me a little further, that would be great. And I've never really had a problem. They're usually when you fess up and tell them you need a little extra help. I think one of the coolest things was we took off at night. We were leaving a controlled airport in the Cleveland area, and we had a warning light come on. And, man, when I told the tower, we just had a warning, come on light come on, he was just like, airport's yours. Do what you gotta do. You know, such. Such airplanes stay on downwind. Like, they were so cool. When I just. I didn't claim an emergency, but I said, hey, we've just had a warning like, come on, we need to return, man. He was on it. Like, aircraft's yours. Do what you gotta do. You know, fixed wing aircraft. Do this, do that. Just like, just do it. Just do what you got to do, and I'll take care of everything else. That was really cool.

Yeah, I had that situation up at Lewis. I was in one of the flight school's helicopters, and we blew a clutch fuse. And so the clutch light came on, stayed on longer than 10 seconds.

And you're thinking, oh, what's going on A final approach.

And it was kind of an awkward final approach, too, where he wanted us to do, like a midfield downwind cross because we were again, trying to stay out of fixed wings traffic. And so we got on the radio, we're like, hey, you know, we. We have a problem. Instrument issue. We need to land immediately. And did the same thing. They cleared the taxi and the ramp and said, you know, land at your discretion, you know where you need to, and then just report back to us when you know, when. When you know.

Yep. Nice feeling when they. When they help you out like that. Yeah. All right, well, hey, we're going to wrap it up. What we're going to do, we just talked about before we turn the camera on for next month, when we kind of finish up these mishaps and screw up videos, we're gonna go kind of back to basics and try to get some interviews going on with some of our members or anybody that wants to maybe either travel here and talk about their training experiences to help others learn about the whole training process, or if maybe somebody wants to jump on a zoom and we could record it, we could put you up on the Hog's Wall. That's what we're gonna do for 2024 January, is get back to basics and, you know, pull some people in to share their stories. Because what's fun about this is I like having fresh stories coming in instead of me regurgitating my same old stories that I've been telling forever. So I like this format of bringing people in and letting them share their experiences. Put a comment down below. Let us know what you think about that. If you're Interested in going live 101 with us, subscribe so you can be notified of the videos. A couple of free PDFs down below. Both Amazon number one check or Amazon one Amazon number one best sellers spit it out color free PDFs and we also ship you these books in the US for just shipping and handling. 9.95 all right, see you next video to fly another day helicopterground.com Peace out. There we go.

When you feel the pressure to fly, but know the right decision is to stay on the ground, hit the hogs no go and live to fly another day. Helicopterground.

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