How a tech power couple built a public company and a family at the same time, with Julia and Kevin Hartz, co-founders of Eventbrite

All right. Amazing. We have Kevin and Julia Hartz here today. Welcome to the pod. Thanks so much for joining.

Thanks for having us.

Okay, cool. So we're going to jump right in. I know you guys have been interviewed about your companies and all of your amazing professional work a million times, so this one's going to be a little bit more personal. So can you start by taking us back to the beginning? How did you guys meet? And how did it become romantic? And then how did eventbrite come out of it?

We met at a wedding in Santa.

Barbara 20 years ago.

20 years ago. Julia sat right down next to me on the aisle because she was giving a reading. And I reassured her because she was a little nervous about getting in front of. Up in front of the whole crowd.

I wasn't sure if the reading was up at the podium and I hadn't memorized it. So when I got up there and it was. I was really relieved. And then I came back down, and Kevin, who was a complete stranger at the moment, turned to me and said, you did great. I'm so proud of you. And I was like, who are you? And then when we walked out of the church, I remember thinking, oh, he's so nice. I'll probably never see him again. I was sort of in this emo phase. I'd just broken up with someone and was just kind of, like, depressed. And so at the wedding rehearsal, it was a huge wedding. I was standing with my. I was working at MTV at the time, and the bride was my boss, and I was standing with my cool kid MTV crew. And out of nowhere, Kevin shows up with, like, a tray of drinks. And just, like, a golden retriever came into the group and started chatting everyone up. And then when we went to go sit down, he had already staked out where I had been placed, and it was at a table of a lot of his classmates from Stanford. And so he moved everything strategically to move sort of the more maybe engaging, successful classmates away from me and, of course, make sure that we were sitting next to each other and it was 100% love at first sight. Yeah.

Amazing. So you guys got. You guys get married and. Yeah. What was the conversation about, like, starting Eventbrite and having kids? How did all that.

Okay, so we decided to settle in San Francisco. But we did go. We did debate that for some time. Yes.

Okay, so basically. So it was never considered to be in la. And. And were you always like, I'm gonna move to sf and then.

Yeah.

How did you guys get. How did you get convinced to do eventbrite rather than stay at MTV or do events.

Yeah, I mean I was in really cool companies in Hollywood. I mean mtv. I worked on Jackass, the first movie and, or the first series and then the movie. And then I moved over to FX and I worked on Nip Tac, the Shield, Rescue Me and some docu series pilots with Morgan Spurlock. So yeah, I had it made. But in the background I was also watching Kevin build a company and also invest in companies. And I could see the writing on the wall that disruption was coming and it was going to be disrupting media. And we were really struggling because revenue, you know, as people were watching less commercials, ad revenue is falling. So we were doing things like product placement deals, which is like hearkening back to the 1950s. And Kevin was showing me the first video on YouTube. So I just think like, combination of factors. I'm from the Bay Area, I was madly in love. You know, Kevin's company was in San Francisco. I could see that if I wanted to be on the faster train of disruption, I should go be in tech. And then yeah, so like we decided to, to settle in San Francisco and I got a job at or I got an offer for a job at Current tv, which was Al Gore and Joel Hyatt's like sort of user like UGC News startup.

Well, which was important because super. It seemed like, okay, that would be the way, you know, like you had good insights. You were at MTV Television, you were at fx, you're doing these unscripted series and things and this is you know, like the few, you know, the content that initially derived online was all like user generated content or Jackass esque.

So then, so then.

Oh yeah. So how did you guys decide to start?

Yeah, okay, go ahead. Super low. And it gave Kevin kind of the opportunity to help me think about alternatives which was like you go work on someone else's startup and get paid less than you're worth or we can build something, something together and you can make no money and we can put all of our savings into it and maybe lose all of our money and bootstrapping a company. And nor I have tried. I should probably go to like hypnosis therapy or something to try to get stuff. I don't remember saying yes to that plan. Truly. I don't remember the moment that like I said that's a good plan because I am way less, less risk tolerant than Kevin and I could always say the worst thing and then like reverse engineer how to, how to like avoid it. Do you remember how you convinced me.

I mean, I was like just a happy puppy dog. I was so excited. I became the first developer on top of PayPal with my business partner, Alan Braverman, and we built a remittance business. And, you know, it was really kind of cooking. And it was so, you know, it was just so exciting. And so I was just like, phenomenally, like, it just seemed like a secret. You know, Peter Thiel always says, like, what do you know that others don't? And at this period, you know, in the mid-2000s, like, the belief that was a waste of time, that it was a silly fraud was. Was kind of pervasive. And yet, like, we were seeing these businesses take off. And so I just, you know, was so excited about it. And hopefully she felt that enthusiasm. And I, you know, I always think of myself as a lousy salesperson, but just any kind of authentic behavior she can pick up on. And so she hopefully knew it was.

So was your infectious enthusiasm that won her over.

I would say it was infectious optimism. And it was like this. Like, the way I describe Kevin is like, he's missing the chip that says, this might not go so well or this might not. And so I think every great entrepreneur and inventor has some similarity of that or that attribute. And so, you know, I think it was a really pivotal moment in my life. It was the most pivotal moment, and I think that.

So how long was that after you guys got married that you guys made this big group together?

Yeah, I think the most pivotal moment in my life is meeting Kevin for sure. But then, like, yeah, the second order effect is like, when I made the decision to come up and then when we decided to work on it. But, you know, you never know if something's going to work out or be big. And I just was like, I had no idea what we were doing. So this was summer of 2005. We got married in summer of 2006. So we officially launched Eventbrite in January of 2006. And then we got married. And I just remember there were three or two of us. One of our co founders was virtual. We were in this tiny windowless phone closet in Potrero Hill. And I had this. We literally had saw horses and plywood desks, and I had, like, wedding invites that were, like, stacked over my head. And I had. And I was like, googling how to run a successful search engine marketing campaign, you know, to, like, I was marketing, customer support and finance. Kevin was product. And Renault, our third co founder, was engineering.

And Renaud was in Paris, which is Pretty cool.

Yeah, it was great.

Yeah.

Give us, like, around the round the clock. Yeah.

Because he was eight hours and nine hours ahead.

It was a magical time.

Yeah.

I mean. And so we got married in June of 2006, and then a year and a half later, we were our favorite.

Guests at the wedding.

Oh, the Geppettras, for sure.

We can't tell that story.

Okay, so then what was the conversation about having kids? Like, were you guys both wanting to have them at the same time? Different times.

Yeah.

How are you thinking about juggling it with the startup? How did that decision go?

I can say definitively we did not overthink kids. Like, it was. I feel like we were so lucky to not have that hanging over heads like, oh, my God, how are we gonna do a startup and have kids? It was like, we're gonna have babies and we're gonna build this company, and they're very parallel experiences. So it was. It was great. I mean, you know, I got like, big. I gained 90 pounds. I was. Ate a lot of burritos from Dos Penas. No, I didn't. Weighed more than you.

No, you didn't.

Yeah. Yeah, I do. And I would, like, take a nap. We had these dog beds that our friend, like, had.

Our friend had a D2C dog bed.

Startup, and so he gave us dog beds. We didn't have a dog. We'd put them. We'd like stack them up and it would be our nap area. And so I would nap in the office on these dog beds. And I was. I mean, I was a whale. Like, I was. I was. I was really big. And. And so. And so it was just a really sweet time. It was just, you know, very sort of. I wouldn't call it like, provincial, but it was very simple.

Well, part of it was that we, you know, I mean, you would come off like the man working for the man Fox, and I come off Zoom, which was, you know, Zoom was pretty hardcore. We were. All of a sudden, the world became, like, heavily regulated and the business turned out to be hyper capital intensive from so many different perspectives of fraud and having to, like, have money licenses in 35 states and all this sort of stuff. And I kind of got. I didn't get shoved out the door. I got gently walked out the door.

By the scruff of your neck?

By the scruff of my neck. But on the next company, I was like, we're gonna, you know, we're gonna do this our way and we're gonna, you know, we're gonna get a family business. And so it was you and me and our little baby, Renault. No, Renault's our cto. He's a badass. And so we just run it on a shoestring. We said, let's do it in a non capital intensive way because the tendency is everyone wants you to spend money so you raise more money and oh, spend more money. Invest here, invest there, do these things. And so we just ran it really lean. And so it felt like a family business. So it's like, let's have a family, let's have a baby.

We spent less than a quarter of a million dollars in the first two years. So that's how lean it was. And you know, adding Emma to the mix was just like bringing another teammate in. We made the, I think, implicit decision. I don't think it was explicit, but I think we just both adopted the idea that our family and our company would be one and the same and that there would be no boundaries. We get the question so often, how did you turn off Eventbrite? And like, you know, how'd you stop? It's like we never stop talking about Eventbrite, even to this day. It's part of our lexicon, it's part of our connection and I think that's really wonderful. Like we'd go to bed talking about it, we'd wake up talking about it. And you know, I think having having a baby allowed us though to like balance things because prior to Emma, all we did was work. And then post Emma, we felt this like really noble mission to like not work around her all the time. Like we brought her into the office and she was a part of things. But we also knew that when we came home we wanted to be just with her. So that started to like, sort order some things. I know Peter Thiel gave Kevin the advice of like, outsource your non core competencies. And I said, that's totally fine as long as you're not outsourcing them to me. And so we started to build this life that sort of had us both equally off the hook for certain things, but also equally responsible for certain things. So I'm not more involved with the children than Kevin is, but I also don't know where the paper towels are kept in our house.

I don't know how to wash dishes.

So what did you guys start doing as your rituals as a couple to sort of stay connected? You have, you know, the big transition of having kids, a big transition of responsibility of a startup. Did you guys start having rituals or did they sort of change over time?

Yeah, we're big fans of date night. Date night, it was always Thursday evening. You know, we'd have like Julia's mom come over. Just some periods of time where you, the two of you can be alone and maybe away from it all.

We don't do that anymore. We need to reinstate date night.

Yeah, I keep telling you that.

I know I would be so tired that I'd be like falling asleep in this, the soup. And I remember after having our second daughter, Maeve, I mean we were so precious about date night that the first week after we had her, we went on date night and I was just like completely, you know, I think I had a glass of wine and I was like wasted. So I think carving out that time to just be together alone is really important. And then dividing and conquering. I mean today, you know, it's like running a small nation. And so we're the members of the cabinet and we've got constituents and we need to ensure they are always looking at ways that they can like overthrow the power in the nation. So we have to like stay really connected about like what decisions we're making, why, what are our principles, what are we saying yes to, what are we saying no to? And then having a lot of trust. Like we assume the best from each other in terms of parenting because you know, there's just, I mean I'm fast forwarding but like we're in like the preteen and teen era. It is a full on, it's a full contact sport.

But Noor's listeners don't understand where we are right now. I in, you know, like 2016ish, had a step out of Eventbrite. I was the CEO for that first stretch and then Julia took off, took off, took over after then as CEO and I became this, you know, so called chairman. And we joke that it's like you get all the title that sounds like you're important but you don't have to do any work at all. So you know, we're not as sort of, we're not, you know, in the same flow. And that's, you know, I can't imagine like if any couples are working together. Just really cherish that because it was, I mean we talked about date night but the reality is it's like being together 247 was such a special thing. You're like going through this life experience together non stop, you know, in sync, feeling the same like exhilarations and going through the brutal hardships and pain and you know, and now that's kind of all gone. So I find it a little. I find it sad. I've had a hard time adjusting to it.

I think, like, for us, it's harder to not work together than to work together. Right. Because the premise of our entire, like, being together was working together. And so, yeah, it's been way more challenging to not work together in, like, a daily capacity.

It's so adorable.

Yeah. I mean, I think our girls really think about Eventbrite as something that Mommy and daddy built and that, you know, mommy is the boss of. And that works well in our family because we have girls.

I love it.

We are like society.

They're like, daddy, you should do something with your life. You know, look what Mommy's done. Daddy, what do you do? Yeah. No, it's totally true. They're like.

They're not impressed by, like, AAR and investing. Why not? That's pretty cool.

They just. It isn't synced the same way as, like, the whole CEO Eventbrite thing. Because, like, before starting AAR and after Eventbrite, I went and worked with Peter and Luke and Kenny and the whole team at Founders Fund for just, like, about two years before starting a star. And we would drop. I would get dropped off. It was in Letterman on the way to Maeve school. And, you know, Maeve's like, all she knew is there was a Starbucks there. And so she, for a couple years thought I worked at Starbucks. And then she'd be like, my mom is CEO of Eventbrite and my dad works at Starbucks.

I forgot about that. That was true. That was so funny because you used to take her there all the time.

I know I take her there. It was also, you know, George Lucas manages the building.

Yeah.

And Lucasfilm still have some stuff there. And so I would take her to the, like, Star wars store and she would poop her diaper. Like, it was like, the best thing in the world. Like, it had all the best merch you can imagine. Oh, my God.

That's amazing. All right, so switching gears a bit to Orchid. Why did you guys invest in Orchid?

We invest in people. We invested in Nor. Yeah, I mean, we remember, like, meeting you. We remember, you know, we always ask about backgrounds. We always ask about, like, life Story and so on. And, you know, you had us right there. It's. It's enthralling who you are and where you came from. And then, I mean, obviously the vision, what you're doing, it's so exciting. And it. And it just feels like this big, major leap forward. Like, we had made an investment over 10 years ago in Balaji and his brother's Ramji's startup. And so we had a little bit of a background in DNA kind of pre testing and so on. And you were like pushing the limits like no one else. And I loved when I would talk to somebody in the industry and they'd all tell us like, that's crazy, don't do that, that's not going to work. And of course I'm like, this is going to work.

Oh, that's amazing. So then what piqued your interest in actually using Orchid?

Oh, oh, well, we're going to have two babies and we're so excited. We think the babies are the new luxury. Good now. Just kidding.

Ok, let me take it. Okay.

Oh boy, oh boy.

Drink your margarita. We, you know, I think that after having two kids and building a company. So Eventbrite is 17, Emma is 15 and Ma is teenagers.

Okay.

Yeah, we're all pre teens and teens. Yeah. I think one of the greatest privileges of our lives is. Has been. Well, the greatest privilege of our lives has been being parents. And we've loved raising the girls. And you know, I think, I think oftentimes people think that they have to choose between professional success or personal fulfillment. And I think we've done a really good job of balancing both. And I think, like, just to speak for myself, I've always felt like the kids are getting on my train. Like, I'm not stopping the train. I'm not, you know, jumping the rails. Like, you get on my train and let's go. So we've done, I think a really good job of incorporating the kids into our lives and being with them. I mean, I think I can count probably on like maybe two hands and a foot how many nights a year I'm away from the girls. And that's a combination of being really disciplined around travel and then also taking them everywhere. And so I just think we share that grounding principle of including them in our lives. And you know, we kind of reach this stage where you go through the like really intense years, but it's really fast. And I don't think anybody talks about how fast it goes. I mean, a lot, okay, a lot of people talk about how fast it goes, but truly it's like you go in the steep climb of like parenthood because you have to adjust to being a parent and being responsible for another human being and then it like levels out really quickly.

Quickly.

And I think it was in the leveling out where we were like, but are we Done. Like, was that. Was that it? And, you know, Kevin had, again, a really prophetic question for me, which was, what else are we gonna do? And it's sort of like, you know, thinking about, like, starting a company, having professional success, being. Being, like, living in this age and having so much privilege, like, truly, what else are we going to do? I just got it. It was like, one question that completely opened me up to the possibility of expanding our family. And, you know, I think we'd watched a lot of our friends around us go through this journey and kind of had been like, you know, spectators. And I don't think we'd ever imagine that it could be us. And so, once again, Kevin pitched a concept that I. I was like, you're right. And can I use the roofies again? Yeah, exactly. You, like, stacked your fingers, and I agree. And then we've been on the journey ever since, and I think, you know, I think it's taken us by surprise how difficult it's been, like, how. How it hasn't gone quickly, but at the same time, I don't think you can rush these things. And so, you know, we're really excited because we plan to double our girl squad. And I feel really honored and privileged to be able to do that. I mean, it's such a. It's such a huge. To go back to your joke about luxury. It's. It's such a huge luxury in life to be able to do that.

And.

And it's also brought up a lot of questions from people who love us, right? Like, why would you do that? You've, like, two kids, you're on your way to empty nest. Why would you possibly bring more chaos and effort and work into your lives? And I just think it's. It's very personal choice, but I think that we feel really. We feel really lucky to have such a strong village around us, and we know that we stay. We're really grounded by family.

So I just kind of think back to, yes, like, amazing periods of Julie and I, like building the business together. But there's such sweet, intermingled parts of Emma in my arms as just a little baby. Like, what a sweet baby. And looking in her sweet eyes and who she became and how she's grown up. And then to have that again with Maeve, like, I'm so excited to do it again and again and again. And, yeah, I can't wait. I don't understand people that say, like, oh, this age is so bad. And they tell you every age, every 18 months, how bad it's going to be. And every 18 months it's like just unbelievably wonderful and thoughtful. So, I mean, I just can't imagine anything more lovely.

Yeah, that's amazing. Basically you just loved being parrot so much that you're like, okay, let's take the leap to do it again. So could you walk through the steps of. What was it like working with Orcid?

Deciding to work with orchid was pretty straightforward because of who you are and what you've built. But, you know, I think deciding to really be intelligent about the choices that we're making and be ethical and be mindful of what science can bring is really important. I mean, we just, we just like had sex and made our first two. You know, that was like. There was no.

I heard that's how it's done.

But this has been quite a different journey. And so, you know, I think that we wanted to.

We went the IVF route.

Yeah. We wanted to make sure that we were being thoughtful and intentional and careful about the decisions we were making. And, you know, we're not spring chickens, so you wanted to be sure. And I think that's what Orcid brought us, was the confidence that if we moved forward, it would be. It would result in a really responsible outcome and the assuredness that we needed to know that we could move forward. Because I think no matter what journey you're on, whether it's a more modern, science backed journey or a biological journey, it is. There's so much uncertainty. And you know, for me, like, I, I think I'd really taken for granted how easy it was to have our first two. Unfortunately, I suffered a miscarriage with our third and that was a real big setback for me and, you know, for us as a family, we always expected a third.

And then, yeah, it didn't happen and we just kind of went cold for a long period of time.

And so this is us not giving up. Right. And you know, I think part of that is our optimism around the future and the need for us to make our. The assuredness that we can make great humans. But also, you know, the fact that we have like the orchids of the world to help us through this. I mean, we have never been through this before, right? Yeah.

Can you tell us anything that was unique or remarkable about working with Orcid?

Well, I think that working with Orcid gave us the confidence to move forward and gave us the clarity around the things that we really care about. I think it was really exceptional that we could add in to the Process things that were relevant to our family history and things that, you know, we would want to consider. And so we move forward now with so much more confidence than I think we. We would have. Especially being older parents.

Especially being older parents. Yeah. Orcid just gave us confidence that we can be parents again. And it was something that, you know, before you just thought was. Was all over and. But it wasn't for us. Like, we wanted these girls to come into our lives and be something meaningful. So it's really profoundly impactful.

How do you guys feel after having worked with Orchid? Like, basically, you know, you guys had this, you know, cool decision about having more kids. There was like, you know, the whole process. Now that you're on the other side of, you know, looking at your reports, how do you guys feel?

Well, listen, it's, it's early in this field of, you know, from all the different aspects of IVF and other testing and so on, but Orcid was really that, like, shining light of stability and comfort and ease that so many other attributes of this are so difficult. And really Orchid just, you know, made it, made it something that was comfortable, that gave us confidence, that was really a wonderful part of the experience and gave us great insights.

What do you think you guys are going to do differently about parenting these new kids? How is your philosophy on parenting changed? How you guys think about the next year?

This phenomenon lately where people feel like their lives have to make this huge change in order to have kids. And, you know, I think probably people who have waited longer to have kids are legitimately going to have to make bigger life changes. But I also think it's important to realize that, you know, you don't have to stop your life or stop the train for the kids to thrive. They want to be with you and you can bring them on your journey. So I think, think. I think we definitely will keep that concept. I think we will. We've got a growing list of things of feedback from our first cohort.

Of.

Things we should or should do, including feedback for management.

Less screen time. So they're advocating for less screen time for their little sisters.

Earlier exposure to Taylor.

Earlier exposure to Taylor Swift.

Okay.

I let our 15 year old know that I don't do playgrounds public like they. I'm socially anxious. They're a little bit germy. So we kind of know our San Francisco parent. Yeah. And our, and our superpowers. But, you know, I think that we, that we probably. Here's the benefit of having a second cohort of kids is that Even despite the ever changing landscape of the world, you get a really strong sense of what matters and what doesn't. And, you know, our kids aren't fully grown yet, the first cohort, but we really can understand, like, what moments mattered for us to be.

Both are more mature than I am.

Yeah. And also, like, what we don't need to get wrapped around the axle about. So I don't think that we'll be, like, more mellow parents, but I think we'll be more confident.

What do you guys feel like you do differently than other parents?

Oh, my God. We have dinner with our children five, six nights out of the week.

Dinner time is precious, sacred. We have a phone basket that you have to put your phone into. Then we sit down at dinner. And sometimes no one talks to each other the entire time, but doesn't matter. We're at dinner together.

We are at dinner together. So, I mean, those two little girls are gonna, like, pull up in their high chairs as soon as they can sit up, and they'll be at dinner every night. And I think it's just such a wonderful tradition, but I think it's getting. It gets lost with activities and all that stuff. So we're gonna preserve that.

And then I'm gonna switch to a few work questions. So the first one is for Julia. What is the life of a public company CEO? Like, how is it the same or incredibly different than the early days with the windowless office in Potrero?

I try not to dwell on the differences of a public and private company. I think that it's just the company. So I don't think that my life is much different other than the, like, quarterly earnings reports, which I love, because I love transparency. And I love sort of like holding yourself accountable to what you say you're going to do. But I would say that being the CEO of a company, any company, in 2023 is a special challenge. It's a lot going on, and I think coming out of a pandemic and grappling with a number of both social issues and international crises at the same time, it's just like. It's like a very difficult day to day grind.

Kevin, for you. So from working with Peter and Founders Fund, do you subscribe that every great company has to have a secret that they believe in that nobody else does? Why or why not? And then what does a star believe.

That other funds don't love that question. That is such a good question. I absolutely do. Because every company that starts that is truly, truly great is like running against the grain, they notice something that's happening that others aren't and they jump on it. The best companies, the best founders really see something happening that's so intriguing and awe inspiring to them and they see the opportunity to go after it. And that really is the basis of that question. So those are the businesses that are enduring over time. And I think you had another second.

Yeah, I was just wondering, do you think that applies to a star as a fund? Right. So you agree that great companies have, have a secret that they believe that no one else does. Do you think it's the same for funds too? So for you guys at a store, is there something about investing that a star believes that other funds don't? And if so, what is it funny.

That you asked that because I was like, I was like broken for so long because I'm like, we're just another douchey fund. The world needs another fund. There's four bazillion funds in the world. And the reality is that funds don't have to differentiate companies. The funds that have and really have done it well. And I'll point to the obvious too. One is Y Combinator. The Jessica and Paul came up with a brilliant means to collect this young talent and help it launch into space. And it's worked to this day. The other I would attribute to Peter with Founders fund at a time when we would just naturally rip and replace the founder and put in a so called professional CEO. Peter said no. And that was the rise of the era of Steve Jobs. It was the rise of the era of Mark Zuckerberg. And that was truly differentiated, that was harder to keep because everyone then kind of shifted and like, hey, we're founder first too. But granted to Peter and Kenny and Luke for doing that. So my response around a star and what we're doing is we're just trying to find those misfits, those, you know, people that are not kind of following the typical thing and they're out there. So there can be more funds than ever. And that's the case right now. But they're not. What's not happening is people are not like investors are not finding those companies and they're not seeking out those that are truly, truly, truly kind of breaking all the rules and doing things in such a different way. And that's always going to be unique.

It's always going to be rare and unusual. Yeah. Okay, Julia, for you, can you talk about some of the problems at Eventbrite and maybe your call for startups of like, hey, I really wish There was a company or product that would solve this problem for me personally or from the exposure you have to other to other companies. Like this company needs to exist. Can someone go build it?

Yeah. You know, I think that the propensity to overcomplicate organizations is one that's a just a kind of natural gravitational pool to any company that's growing out of startup to scale up to, you know, an established company. So I'd love to see a company arise where it can quickly audit the complexities in your organization and effectively and automatically generate simplicity. That's including everything from your tech stack to the vendors that you choose to work with to the org design. Why are we making decisions around org design? I'm sure there's much greater insight that will help us achieve a better outcome for the business and the company other than human based decision making on org design. So I just think like that solving the complication factor in organizational design and the way that companies operate would be a huge boon.

What is maybe your piece of advice for people who are on the fence about having kids? For people who are kind of in that phase of, oh, I don't know if it's going to change my life too much. I don't know if I can handle the stress or the tiredness of it. What's your words of advice there?

Just jump in. Like you got here somehow to this point in your life. Right. So you're capable, you're smart, you're adaptable like that shouldn't, you know, there should be no reason why you can't embrace the experience of parenthood. And I tend to think that people in general overthink it. I'm pretty sure that one of our main jobs as humans on this planet is to procreate. And I respect and honor those who decide not to, but to want to, but not sure if you can do it. That's just underestimating your own ability. So I think life is so much more fun with kids. Obviously I'm biased because I have them and it's hard, but it's also rewarding.

You were right on.

Thanks dude.

Our only job in life is to procreate. What else are we here for? Like that's what we were created for. We were born, we evolve, we procreate, we die, but we live on in our offspring. Yeah.

And I think it's just a, it's just a wonderful way to really balance out your life.

One thing that's interesting, like I've always wanted, I've always been speaking with my grandparents or others that have gone through the experience of raising children through adulthood and college and beyond is that they have always missed that time. I wish they could cherish it more, and I just don't see why I would ever want it to stop. And how could you not want more of helping to grow and shape these wonderful human beings?

Yeah.

Well, this is amazing because you guys are such an inspiring power couple. I think a lot of people look up to you guys as this is the couple that has it all, that's able to have these amazing kids and amazing companies and investing stuff. So, yeah, thanks so much for taking the time to tell us about how you did it and how you guys are going to do it again. It was just amazing to have you. Thanks so much for your time, guys.

Thank you.

Thank you.