Redefining Tomorrow: Thinking Differently w/ Marianna Lead #21

Hello, everybody. I'm David Goldsmith and welcome to another edition of Redefining Tomorrow. It's here we discuss topics that may redefine your future, that may redefine even how you live on this planet or any other type of redefining you might consider. One of the quotes I've lived by for most of my life is, you can't fix yesterday, you can only create tomorrow. In essence, today we are redefining tomorrows. The topic we're going to explore today is Reshaping Tomorrow. Thinking Differently. And we have on the call with us today, Mariana lead. How are you, Mariana?

I'm good, David. Thank you so much for having me.

Well, I'm looking forward to it. So here's a quick, short intro, as we always do. Mariana is the founder and executive director of Goal Imagery Coaching Academy, twice elected president of the International Coaching Federation's New York City chapter. She did teach at nyu, introduced coaching to the Smithsonian Institute, which I thought was interesting, had a cable show on Manhattan Cable and co hosted Laughter as a Life Skill at a Broadway theater with comic Yaakov Smirnoff. Now, the little bit of background for everybody who's calling in or listening in for the first time, I have no idea where Mariana is going. I never have any idea where Mariana is going as or any guest as. What we do is we connect in one way, shape or form. Then we have a conversation about what the program will be like and or could be. And we focus primarily on the title. Now, this is very different than any other podcast out there. Then what happens is we spend the time refining where the direction of this topic might go. And the initial orientation of the title often changes. Many, many times. I've had to change over three different calls with one individual and we created about 60 different titles. When we finally get there, we've never really discussed the topics. Then the guest Mariana, in this case goes out, tries to put together a program that is going to teach or show or demonstrate the answer to Reshaping Tomorrow and thinking differently. And so I'm going to be listening to this at the same time. You are first time through, trying to learn, trying to grow together. So, Mariana, do you have a set of bullet points or an outline for us to follow?

Absolutely.

Okay, so can you give them to me?

I'll be happy to. You ready to write it down?

I'm ready to write down. I'm going to add one thing, is your conversation in. Mine was an interesting conversation to finally get here. So I'm interested in. And when I say that is, you know, we kind of struggled in the beginning to find a groove. Not for the podcast, just the groove in period. And so I'm really interested to hear how you've kind of formulated. Formulated this time together. So. Yes. What's number one?

Number one is the power of emotions and imagination to shape the future.

Power of emotion and imagination. Imagination to shape the future.

Number two, realizing that your mind thinks in images.

Your mind thinks in images. Okay.

Number three, the importance of having a clear goal. You and I agree on that.

We do. I don't tend to use that word as much. And we'll go. As soon as you said it, I said. Okay, let's move. Next one. Number four.

Making important decisions.

Making important decisions. Okay, Next one.

Creating a blueprint of your future.

Blueprint of your future. Next one.

I have four more, but they're kind of bonuses. Right.

Okay, so I'll just, I'll write down bonus. So I'm okay with bonuses. Okay. Are we going to call it bonus number one or we're going to call bonus? I'm going to bullet. I'll put a bullet point.

Okay. Okay. Checking your assumptions.

Checking your assumptions.

Listening to your own thoughts.

Listening to your own thoughts. Next.

Listening to the thoughts of others.

Of others.

And the last one. Whenever you're ready.

Yeah, I'm ready.

Reshaping your future includes reshaping your past.

Includes reshaping your past. Okay, so we've got them all down. So. So let's start with number one. The power of emotion and imagination to shape the future. Where are we going?

Well, yeah, it's an exciting topic because I spent like literally 30 years of my pretty much entire professional career on this topic. The power of emotions and imagination. Our emotions and our imagination affect our self identity. They create a hypnotic state of mind, quite literally. And as a result it all creates self fulfilling prophecy whether we realize it or not. I call those type of images emotionally charged images. And I know you and I, we have a background kind of similar in terms of. You also taught at nyu. We actually taught it at the same time. We never met each other there. Yes.

Okay.

But I taught, I taught all of the coaching courses at both continuing ed and master degree. But I also created my own kind of brand method called Gold Imagery. And I'm using it, I've been using it to call my coaching academy.

So the Gold Imagery Boost because of David Goldsmith, right?

No, goal is G. Oh, goal, Goal, Goal.

See I. Hey, look at, I think my name. I had to do that was. Okay. Goal image.

Yes.

Okay. So the interesting that you use the word hypnotic.

Yep.

Why do you call it hypnotic?

Well, and that's why goal imagery. Because it's all about focusing on the goal and using imagination. Right, right. So hypnotic. Because when we are. Well, you know, hypnosis is. We're not talking about official hypnosis. I'm saying hypnotic because it's something that is going to be produced and kept by your subconscious mind and it may or may not be known by you consciously. So hypnotic state of mind is something that's running in the background and then makes you do either great things or silly things like. Right. Yeah, go ahead.

No, I was gonna say because the word stuck out for me because I can do self hypnosis. I know it's a long story to it, but I've had surgery done on me with no medication and my father. Long story to it. So when I hear hypnotic state, I'm trying to formulate how the power of emotion and imagination shape that. So. Sorry to interrupt, but I, I'm trying to tie that together because it would mean if it's in their background, it's always there and. Okay, go on, let's. Let me hear more.

You're totally on the right track with all of that and it's impressive that you've been using hypnosis for. As you were saying. Right. So that's. It's really powerful, actually. I. Very few people know that and I usually don't advertise it, but I did do hypnosis before I became a coach. I did it for 20 years. Oh. And so. Yes. So maybe that's where my understanding of subconscious and these expressions, you know, hypnotic state of mind, self fulfilling prophecy, maybe that's where it's coming from. You know, my background, it's got, it's.

Got to be because when I'm in an audience of 500 people, even if I'm not even at the conference or an event, like I'm going to be a speaker, I'm standing in the back. If there are 500 people and they ask. A hypnotist looks for people in the audience every single time. Any audience I've ever been in, they always point to me. Every single time in the back, you, you come on up and I don't know if I give off this message. Either I'm very gullible or very accepting of hypnotic. Or maybe have an aura around me. I don't know. So yeah, that's interesting. You have that background. So now I, now I can follow this a lot better. Go Ahead.

Amazing. Well, maybe, maybe you show enthusiasm.

I don't know.

Okay, well, and so. And the premise was other people ask me why gold imagery. What does it even mean? Well, it means that first we have to have a goal, clear goal, something that we really want versus something that we don't want. And then imagine it fully and in present tense, as you actually recommend as well. And then you have something that may evolve in a positive way for you in your real life. So that's where I'm going with all of this.

So before you get to that, because this, I haven't really gotten great answers about, about why this works. And it tends to be very Western culture. Well, not Western culture. I would say you hear the stories when that visualization works, when it's successful in any culture, but you don't hear the millions or billions of people who did have a clear defined direction and it didn't work. You know, there, there are 2255,000 people in the DRC depending Republic of Congo. Not picking on the culture. It just tends to be an example I can use today that are in what is defined by the world, slavery, pulling cobalt, or working in mining. The reason is taking cobalt out of a mine is very difficult. So they like to have an individual fight, find me nuggets that they would work with. I'm. I'm going to imagine out of 255,000 people, there are at least. And I'm going to be very, very pragmatic or open to say only 5% now out of those 5%, do you think if they follow this, they will get out?

You know, I was reading your book actually, right. And I was looking at your podcast, you know, not podcast. I was doing that as well, but I watched your TED talks and I have to say that you talk about changing people's minds about lots of different things. And one that impressed me was give up that idea that everything is about people. You have to put in strategies and systems in place to help people to do the best that they can do. And so why am I bringing this up right now is because there is no one thing that needs to happen. Emotionally charged images and realizing how you think is just one aspect. Clearly, if you're just going to be having images and not doing anything about them, nothing is going to happen. Clearly, if you're imagining that you are a superstar, but you, you have zero talent, nothing is going to happen, and so on and so forth. So there are a lot of other aspects that need to be addressed and included for someone to really become successful. But right now we're talking about how to utilize your thinking specifically to reshape your future. So these are extremely powerful coaching techniques that I use with my clients and I also teach at my school that that will help people to think differently and then they can include all of the other aspects as well for us.

So. Okay, I get that. My mind is coming back to. So creating a clear goal versus what you want. Imagine it in the present tense and it may evolve and then it may evolve into a positive way. So inside of there you're saying plus, plus, plus, you need the systems, the structures, the tools, the environment, the politics, the finance, the funding, all of those things are still part of the building process from something you've tried to acquire.

Exactly. Of course. Right. You know, everything that you teach is just as important because how can you move forward without all of that other stuff? Right. You know, you can't. But it starts with you. It starts with who you are and how you appreciate yourself and how you really think. And most people don't realize that we do think in images. So, you know, if I bring an example, if I'm going to tell you, David, David, do me a favor. Do not think of a baby with a mustache. Don't do it. Don't think of a baby with a mustache. What's in front of your face?

Well, it's not in front of my face. It's in my head.

It's in your head, but it's.

Yeah, I don't even, I'm an artist, paint and sculpt. So I'm asking myself, what would that baby actually look like? And so I haven't really formulated one. But there's definitely a mustache and a baby.

Exactly. So the words such as don't do think, all of the words that don't actually create an image, we totally ignore our mind completely ignores it and we literally create an image. So if I'm going to give you another example more relevant to people wanting to achieve something, let's say financial success, Right. And if someone says to themselves, I don't want to be poor, well, well, what do you think that, what kind of images do you think that they're seeing? If I'm saying, if you're saying it, I don't want to be poor, what do you see?

You immediately go to what a poor image would look like in your reference point.

And that creates self identity, sort of, and creates a hypnotic state of mind and self fulfilling prophecy of the opposite of what you actually desire to achieve. So when my Clients come in and they say to me, well, I don't want to do this or I don't want to be that. My first question is, great, thanks for sharing, but what do you want instead? Actually. Right. So if someone who wants financial success says, I see myself as a financially sustainable, financially safe, financially successful person, you have completely different type of images.

So I. The where is the evidence that it is only an image though, that we store an imagery? Do we have any empirical evidence of that or is this kind of a conjecture that we store? My head is turning back and forth and you can't see me. You know how you look? You look in your brain for things. And I'm asking myself like, do I only think in images? I don't even know how to. I don't know how to confirm that.

Yes.

Or deny it.

Right. Well, I have to say this is my favorite look on my students when I see them thinking and trying to connect the dots. That is my favorite time of the day. It's too bad I can't see you right now. So.

Well, that's, that's okay. That's why, that's why I shared with you that the reason we turn off the camera is so listen, anybody who hears this later, but you and I, you have to deal with my words. So if we turn everything, I really have to play with that because I don't. My wife is a words person. She, she sees words, but she sees them. If she's going to be taught, she, she needs to read it. That's the way she will go. I'm kind of a mix. I like to hear something first from somebody and then read it. I don't like to read it first then here, but I do a lot of. I draw paint and I sculpt. So in front of me, I'm drew. I draw diagrams, I create maps and pieces. But I don't know how I, how the world. I'm asking myself, how do I store things? Like, is there an art library of all the imagery of my life or is there a story library of all the stories of my life?

Yeah, I don't think it's just as kind of as simple as that. Right. I think that it actually interprets itself in behaviors, in habits and in expectations. And that's why we're talking about self fulfilling prophecy. So not all of the images are going to stick with you like forever. Like for instance, if I'm talking to you about these examples, baby with a mustache. You know, this is a really kind of cute example. Right? But you have no emotional connection to.

It, so I actually do. Well, I have an emotional connection. I do. I have a connection with you and you having a baby with a mustache. So, you know, I, I can easily put that together because the emotion is the picture in time.

Right, exactly. So in that case, if, in the future, look, if, if in our conversation this is going to be the most outstanding, outstanding thing that is captured by you emotionally, right. Then maybe in the future, when you think of me, you're going to think of baby with a mustache. Right. So that could be an association that we've created just now for you. I don't know. Right. The time will tell, but this is how it works. So what we remember, we remember things emotionally. And believe it or not, when I joined coaching, I joined the coaching industry back in 2002, it was a taboo. It's wild. It's hard to imagine, actually, no pun intended, that not so long ago, in 2002, we weren't allowed, well, it was considered incorrect to ask a client, what do you feel? Or how are you feeling about this? Simply because kind of was too close to psychology and coaching industry was very, very young and they were desperately trying to distinguish themselves from psychologists, psychiatrists and any other helping profession. And so coaches weren't allowed to ask that question. And I was the first one.

This was, and this one was, by the way, an organization. And I'm picking on you. Sorry, but this is the organization that is trying to separate themselves from reality because you, any good advisor, coach, whatever, has to create emotional connections.

Well, exactly. But, you know, everything grows, everything evolved. There was a time when psychology was very new and no one believed in that either, you know, and so I think that I was the first one to actually say it. Well, it doesn't make any sense. It doesn't make any sense because when I go to my hairdresser, she asks me about feelings and I talk about my feelings with my hairdresser. So you don't have to be a psychologist necessarily to open up the conversation about feelings because it's important for people. Right. It's just. And if we're talking about helping any human being, it's important to not just talk about their strategies and goals, but also to include, to invite the conversation about how they feel. And so I was talking about that in my lectures and, you know, kind of making a stand. And soon enough, like few years later, not that quickly, but few years later, the coaching industry completely and totally embraced emotions and feelings. Not only that, nowadays, it's part of our core Competencies. And if you look at the masterful appreciation of coaching in terms of core competencies, you will actually see that the most important thing is creating awareness and that the masterful coach should feel completely okay when the client is expressing even strong emotions. So a lot of it had evolved and changed quite drastically, but not suddenly. You know, it was a slow, evolving process, but it did change completely. And now nowadays we talk about emotions, we talk about feelings, about how to use emotions in the decision making process, which we're going to be addressing later on today. And all of that stuff.

It's funny because. Not funny. I don't know if it's funny. I'm sitting here, I'm going back to the 2000s or 1999, and I don't have my CRM up, but I, I joined the National Speakers association and I then, over time, I built the largest chapter in the world with over a thousand members. We started with five people and almost everything we did was counterintuitive to what they said. And one of the things I had to say to the executives, the people on the team, is I said, There's 3,500 or 4,000 speakers in this room. We have a world of seven and a half billion people at the time. There are thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people who are speakers worldwide. This is such a small group. So I think the International Coaching Federation, similar in that type of approach, was trying to make a name for itself. But in making the name for itself, it did what the National Speakers association did. It kept its blinders on saying, well, this is the way it's done. But the world wasn't following it. You coach your children and people have been coaching their children forever. We don't call it coaching. And so I also don't call myself a coach. So I'm trying to wrap my mind around the fact that they'd even start that way. So I'm glad you were the one who started to push it, but it doesn't make any sense that they would do that. So they should repay to think, right?

Well, I mean, absolutely right. I mean, I get paid to think for sure. Right. So that's. I think psychologists get paid for thinking too.

Yes. So when. So you're. I'm taking the imagery hypnotic state. So you start off with a picture and emotion. You're tying an emotion and image together. I think that's what you're getting at. And then we all create them and therefore we add emotion to that. So does. How is there empirical evidence that doing these type of things really does make a difference.

Well, you know, so I think that if you were to just experiment with it and see how it is. I mean, there are lots of research about the use of imagination and how imagination affects our brain and how it literally creates a blueprint for you to follow. So, you know, but, like, I don't have any to quote right now at this moment, but if you just make an experiment and see, just like I gave you an example, but you can literally read anything, like, read anything, and then ask yourself what stays with you? Like, read a few paragraphs of something or a paragraph, and then you're going to actually realize very quickly that what stays are whatever it is that you imagined.

Yeah, I'm really trying to figure this out in my head. Do I do that? And I don't know. I can watch a movie for three hours, and then my kids will say, while I was growing up, they would say, what was the movie about? And I say, I don't know. There's this woman, I think she had blonde hair, and she met this guy, and he's very famous. And they look at me and say, you just watched it, right? I wouldn't remember or see anything. So I wonder why.

Well, because we're not talking about those type of images, Right. You know, I have to say, if we have a blue car and if we have on the street more than one blue car, I could absolutely go into the wrong one. And then my husband will be screaming, mariana, where are you going? You're going to the wrong car. You know, so I don't think that I'm talking about those type of images, like, literally, because I think that what you are touching upon right now is the skill of visualization. But when we're talking about images, it's not just visual. It's also conceptual. It's also, you know, feeling of it. So when you see an image, you just said it. You just shared with me that when you saw the image of baby with a mustache, interestingly enough, I was impressed that you had an emotion with it and that you associated it immediately with me and our conversation today and so on and so forth. So. And so that's the example, right? That's it. Because it was.

Yeah, I was. Well, yeah. Okay. I'm guessing every. Every word has. Every word has an emotional connection to it, right?

So I'm not saying that people can't make logical connections and think about something through By. By. With logic, but I'm saying that when you listen to something. Someone talk, or when you're reading something, your mind consistently creates images whether we want it or not. If I'm going to ask you how many windows are in your house.

I'd have to go through that window. Counting.

Exactly. You would be visualizing. So now we're talking about visualizing. You would be visualizing each window because no one, no human being remembers or knows exactly how windows they have in the house. Unless they live in like in a studio apartment where there's just like two.

Windows, none I live. Okay, yeah, yeah. So, so we do create them. So the power of emotion. And so how, so tell me, how do we use this in this context of the power of imagine emotion and imagination to reshape the future? Like how are we leveraging it? Are we reshaping it? Are we creating our own? Are we creating our new. How, how are you. Where are we going with this?

Yes. So a question for you. Would you like me to continue with those bullet points with items because that's where it's actually getting to the explanation, or would you like to just kind of do what we're doing?

No, no, I'm, I'm trying to, I, I, it's up to you. I'm just, I got at a point I'm asking a question because I'm sitting here saying, you brought it up. So you're saying that we have an hypnotic state of mind, which I'd like to know the hypnotic side, Self fulfilling prophecy. You have coaching, consulting, mastering. You have goal imagery. How do those four, I think there were four. How did you, how do they all come together in this here?

It's all part of the same puzzle, right? It's all part of the same puzzle. So the thinking in images, people don't realize that they do it just like we just don't. Most people don't realize that it's happening. And most people talk to themselves consciously or subconsciously in a negative form. So we usually say to ourselves what we don't want to be or what we don't want to achieve. And that impacts you subconsciously a great deal. So the first thing to do is to change the negative statement to a positive statement. So you don't want to be poor, what do you want instead? Do you want to be rich? Do you want to be financially secure? What feels realistic and possible and true to you that you can affirm to and say, yeah, this is what I want to be. This is why I see myself as being. And that's what I'm going to be saying to myself. And that's What I'm going to be seeing. And that's how you creating this self fulfilling prophecy because you're going to be using this image, it's an emotionally charged image because you're motivated to actually be that, to create that future. And you're going to be saying it to yourself. You're going to be seeing that image and it's going to help you. It's not going to be the only thing that you, that's going to be, it's going to help you versus harming you or creating obstacles as when people think in the negative. So that's what I'm getting to in this part of our conversation.

So if, if I have an individual that I'm working with who doesn't realize he does these things, how do I deal with that?

Yes. Well, so I'm coming from the perspective of coaching and we ask our clients, right. I ask, the first thing I'm going to ask is what do you want? Right. People don't even hire a coach or I would imagine even a consultant like yourself without you knowing what it is that they want. Right. And so when you understand their final destination, when you understand overall what they want to achieve, you're going to hear literally how they're going to express themselves. Because the way that whatever they're going to say is usually exactly how they talk to themselves.

Okay. So yeah, I don't, I'm not just thinking coaching. I'm just. For me, I don't tend to use the word coaching because it puts me, when I'm dealing with people into a different category. I'm there to help. So I'm asking myself, I'm looking at two things. One, me, how do I change? What am I thinking? That's negative. I tend to avoid words that are negative. Just overall. For example, there are three words in the English language problem, challenge and opportunity. When someone says I've got a problem, the minute you hear the word problem, people back away. I don't want to hear another problem. I've got my own. So when you use that word and it's used constantly, constantly by people and the other, then you have opportunity. Well, we get, I get them on my Instagram feed all day long. Everybody's got an opportunity for somebody. So people are skeptical. But if you see the word challenge, people lean in. They lean in because, hey, I've got a challenge. Well, what, what's, what are you dealing with? And they'll ask those type of questions. So I have two sets. One I'm saying is what am I doing that is tying my emotion and my imagination in a negative way. I don't seem to find something in that way that I can give an answer to, even express. I know I've got to be doing it, but I don't even know where to find it. I'm looking through my head and then I'm thinking of two scenarios that I just had. One individual who's very challenged with almost everything we're dealing with, and another one that I had a conversation. We're working on something yesterday. And when I went through the strategic planning of what we were talking about, if you want to say that all the images he had were wrong. Actually today I had somebody. His guys gets on, he's trying to tell me about what he's working on, and he tells me about all these things he wants to build. And I said, can I ask you a few questions? I said, sure. Well, why are you going after the ultra high net worth of the high net worth people? Well, they can afford it. Well, how much could they afford? It's $2,000. I said, let's just take the United States, 350 million people. Let's figure out what percentage is ultra high net worth, High net worth, or could afford a new refrigerator or, you know, stove or something. Let's say, came out with a number. 45% of the population could probably buy something like that at 1,000 to $2,000. And I said, let's just use 10. 10%, 50 million people or not. It wasn't 10%, it was 15%. Let's do 15 million people. So it's 15 million people for your product, which sounds, it's a cool product. And he said, yeah, but I want to make sure I can get there before I die or whatever. I said, how old are you? He's 57. And none of the things made sense to me. You're 57 years old. He also made a statement. He said, your best years of your life in your between your 20s and your 30s, that's when you're building the best. So I'm. I'm trying to take what you're saying. And I'm saying, okay, emotion and imagination and the pictures they have in their mind, oh my God, we're all screwed up. I mean, I'm actually doing. When I learn, I try to do two things. I apply it to myself and I have to apply it to something else so that I can understand its dynamic. Like, how would I work with somebody to help them see something, which I do all the time. But I'M asking myself, how do I use emotion and imagery differently than I'm possibly using right now?

Yeah, well, you know, I actually did notice that the difference between problems and challenge that you are advising your followers, you know, to pay attention to and your clients. And I think that you're right on target with that. And this is a really good example. So you already kind of maybe intuitively or maybe consciously, I'm not sure, came.

Oh, it's very conscious, right? Yes.

Came to that realization that how we talk about things does affect what's going to happen next internally and then of course, internally first and then externally in terms of results next. Right. So how are we going to see something, how we're going to internalize it is going to pretty much dictate whether it's going to have more chance to succeed or more chance to fail. Right.

So let me ask, when I said problem, challenge and opportunity, did you see the words or did you hear the words?

Yes, good point. So here is a very good example of imagery versus visualization.

Oh, okay.

Visualization is literally imagining an image. And imagery includes hearing and feeling. So for instance, some people say, well, you know, I hear God speaking into my ear or I hear my internal voice or hear my inner wisdom and. And they will actually auditorily hear some intuitive, wise things auditorially. Right. And some people have a much more developed kinesthetic sense. But also any normal person has all of those senses, visual kinesthetic, which means feeling and taste and. And then auditory. Right. So if you saying challenge versus problem, it's kinesthetic for me, like I feel differently in my gut immediately. Immediately I have a different reaction.

So here's the. Okay, so this is why I was normally, I don't interrupt right in the beginning, but I was having challenges because the definitions weren't clear front to me. So you were talking about hypnotic state and emotion and imagination, but I didn't get what you mean by them. So when I'm thinking of imagery, because I draw, paint and I sculpt, my first goes to imagery images. I did not think about hearing, I did not think about kinesthetic, I did not think about taste, I didn't define it that way. So I was very stuck in the very beginning because I didn't add those dimensions. And I think there are 15 different sense sensories or 16. I looked it up one day. There's not a smell here, tasters, there's gyro orientation. There's many more sensory perceptions that we aren't even aware of on our everyday Life. I said we're not aware of. We are aware that we're standing up and we have a gyro sense, but it's built into us. We don't think, think about it the same way as when we touch a stove. So that's why I've been, I've been pushing, because I'm not understanding how it connected. Now, if I expand the definition that you're saying. Yes. When we get something, we interpret it. Tell me if I'm right. We interpret it in a variety of different buckets. Some of them are imagery wise, some of these are the other senses that are around. But in each case, we're creating a mapping in our brain that remembers it from those sensory perceptions, whether they're imagery or other. And those are what we remember and build upon. Is that what you're saying?

Yes. Thank you.

Okay, so because I was, I was interrupting and I knew it and I was trying to say, david, don't. But I'm lost. I don't use the word S, T, R, E, s. With the next letter, there's another letter. I haven't used it since I'm 12. Why? Because everybody was using it. And every time they used it or I used it, I felt bad. Like, say the word. The minute you say it, you feel bad. Yet you can be in a, in a conversation with someone at dinner, they can say it 25 times. Their body has to be reacting. But there's a better word. I'm challenged, I'm concerned, I'm overwhelmed, I am, you know, I'm perturbed, I'm upset. But you don't have to use that one word. And by looking for a new word, you redefine how your body reacts to it and you address it differently. Does that make sense?

Yes, absolutely.

Okay, so now, now I know where you're going. I could not follow that one piece. And I'm not picking on you. Please don't take it that way. I'm just trying to follow. And I got a little lost with the hypnotism, hypnotic state, the self fulfilling and tying it all together. Okay, now I think we'll be a little bit more on target for me.

Well, I'm so glad. I'm so glad. And thank you, David, for interrupting and clarifying, because it's all very clear to me, you know, but maybe not so much for other people who are listening also and not realizing what it is that I'm talking about. So it's helpful. I think it's very helpful.

Okay, so in that sense yes. The power of this emotional state, the connectivity and everything shapes our future, how we receive it and how we give it.

Right.

Okay. Does that make sense now? We.

Yeah.

Why? I was a little. The definitions weren't there for me at least. Okay, good. So how do we take this further than. How do we amplify this?

Yes, well, so I kind of touched upon realizing that your mind thinks in images. We. I think we went very thoroughly through that. And what images mean, that they are like, dimensional. More dimensional than just visualization. And, you know, I was appreciating what you were saying about that word that you don't like, stress. I'm going to just say it. And I think that, you know, when I hear the client says, you know, I'm. I'm so stressed out, I will usually ask, so what's stressing you out? And I kind of know that I'm opening up a can of worms, you know, but then I'm going to hear specific things because stress in itself is meaningless. It's like when you say stress. Yeah. Kind of. Again, it's a feeling word. That's why you don't like it, because it's like problems. It's like you feel it, but it doesn't have any image attached to it. Exactly. Unless stress represents something very, very specific to you. You. And you have a specific image attached to it, which can also happen. But I want the clients to tell me what's exactly stressing them out, so then I can go item by item with them and say, well, what do you want to see instead? So, for instance, if the client says, and this is what we're teaching in our school, too, if the client says, you know, this relationship with my boss or with my partner, regardless whether it's a life partner or a work partner, it's really stressing me out, and I don't know how to move through this. One of my questions could be, you know, what would be an ideal relationship? What would ideal relationship look like for you, knowing who that person is and knowing who you are? Like, what would be realistically possible if, in your mind, as you imagined an ideal future? And I think that that type of question takes people the question about, what would you like? What do you want? How would the future look for you? Ideally? Right. That type of question takes people into literally wiring their brains differently. They are rewiring negative into positive, and all of a sudden you hear something that can actually happen. And now the next phase in this exercise, in this type of coaching session would be, how do we get There what needs to happen so that this vision, this imagery of an ideal situation, ideal relationship, ideal whatever can become a reality, right? And then it's more awareness, creating more awareness. And then from awareness strategic plans come up and action steps and so on and so forth.

It's again, I apply everything to myself. First I have to, I do not go outside, so I don't think about other people, I think about myself and I say, okay, so if I'm going to the imagery word, I. Sorry, it's a terrible word because imagery already has definitions. And here's something just about me. Until I was about 40 some odd years, I did one thing that I think just pissed my wife off. My wife is very grammar spelling, Newhouse School of Communications. She's just all she minor in English. And she would ask me something and I'd give her, she asked me a question, I'd give an answer and I thought it was very complete. And one day she sat me down, she said, okay, let me explain something to you. When first you give the definition, well, let me give what I what is a rose? And if you ask a lot of people what is a rose? They will say, and I can ask you, what is a rose? Let me try this. What is a rose, Mariana?

I'm not sure.

Okay. Many people will answer, a large portion will say, well, a rose is like something you'd give to somebody to show appreciation and love. And she'd say, and she said to me, it's not, she said, a rose is a plant. So she said, you don't give, you always have to give the definition first. So a rose is a plant that grow, might grow thorns. It creates a flower. The flower has a certain shape. That shape has symbolized certain things throughout society and culture. Now an example of a use of a rose could be in a garden to enhance it. A rose could be used as something you give to somebody to show love. But first you give the definition, then you give the use case. And I never noticed this my entire life. I'm not that bright. I realized how often now since she told me that, that it's often overlooked what is the real definition. And so the challenge that I have with the word imagery is my mind trained from youth. My mind goes to imagery, it does not go to kinesthetic, it does not go to hearing, it does not go to taste or feeling. That is a multi dimensional experience, but not imagery. And so my mind is really warped around this. And I apologize. It's warped because the word doesn't match the common use Case worldwide. We can shape it to that. We could tell people that it's new definition but I don't know if it would be embedded in there. So when you say you go to your relationship and I'm gonna go to my boss while my wife is my boss, so can't use that one. If I'm going to go to somebody and I want to help them, not using what coaching, just saying if I want to help somebody, because I prefer help. If I'm going to help somebody and I'll help them to see something or feel something, or create a new pathway, I could say to that. I could twist it, turn it and say what do you see? And they give the negative. And I say, okay, what would the positive be? What if the people don't have that in the way that often is realistic that will happen. Like this guy today, he just his, his mind of what was a positive outcome was so far from reality, it was kind of tough to bring him back on. How do you, how do you fix. If you say to somebody what do you see? Is it happening? And they give it to you and you say, well, let's create a plan for that. How many times do you have to tell somebody you don't have the skill sets, you don't have the money, you don't have the time, you're not, you're in the wrong country, you're in the wrong environment, you're in the wrong this, you're in the wrong that. You understand what I'm asking? The confluence of all of this, if that's the right word?

Yes, yes, absolutely. So it's not wishful thinking. Because what you are describing is wishful thinking. Like for instance, I don't know, I want to become a superhero. I want to make a million dollars in one day. I want to be 2 inches taller. Like whatever. I'm, I'm kind of making fun of, you know, exaggerating.

But no, you're good. These are good, right?

So these things are not possible. They're just not possible. And most people I think have a sense of reality. And I think that's kind of the next question that could be asked. How realistic do you feel is it? And most people will be able to self judge and say, well, you know, David, it's actually not all that realistic. I realize it now the most. You know, people just need to be brought some awareness around what they're saying.

Okay, It sounds like psychology.

How is it psychology?

Well, just asking the questions to move someone through and that's okay. I'M just trying to wrap my mind. So if we're talking about the realizing your mind talks in images and where. Emotion and imagination, how do we tie these together? To get myself as. I'm using myself first to be better. Like, what am I missing? That's what I'm asking myself. What am I missing? What am I missing here? What am I missing, Mariana?

So if you. If you were. If you. If you and I had a coaching session, let's say, well, we're having one right now, right? If you were to say to me, I don't know what I'm missing, I'd say, what are you missing? Because I don't. I don't have those answers. I'm not you, David. So if there's anything that you're missing, then I'm hoping you're going to share it with me.

I. I'm. I'm asking myself. I don't know. So we are in a. You're guiding me. You're helping me to see new realities. That's why you're. We're on the call today, so I'm asking. I don't know what I'm missing. How do you help me find what I'm missing? Like, I don't see anything. I'm a pain in the ass. I'm stubborn. I work hard. I sleep hard. I like to dance all night, you know, I don't carry things with me all day long. I think I treat people nicely. I spend a lot of time thinking about how to make something happen. I push limits. You've heard about Project Moonhot. We're pushing boundaries, not afraid to speak up. I don't know what I'm missing to be better. So how do I find that?

You know, David, not everyone needs coaching, just like not everyone needs a psychologist, just like not everyone needs a consultant or any other profession. You may not be missing anything. I don't know. Because what right now we're talking about is having a clear goal, right? So a client who hires a coach or a consultant, they have an outcome in mind. Something that you want to have done, something that you want to change, something that you want to get more of, something you want to get better at that is specific. So if someone comes to me and say, well, you know, I really don't. I don't. I don't know what I'm missing, well, you know, that's fine, because I don't know either. I don't have the answers like that. I only have questions.

Well, okay, yeah, that's part of the coaching federation and type things is you only have the questions, not as much the answers. I try to. I'm trying to reshape tomorrow by thinking differently and not talking coaching. Not talking coaching business. I'm talking overall. It should work everywhere. If we take away those words, the word coaching, we don't use it. We're help. You're on the call helping me with your skill set. You have hypnotism as a background. You have your experience at nyu. You've done laughter in plays. How I struggle every day. Every day. How do I do a better job for the people around me? How do I make sure that I help them meet those needs? How do we in. I'm not going to use Goldsmith Organization, that business. We've got eight businesses right now. I don't know what the number is I'd have. I could actually add it. I think it's eight. How do I help the people on our teams worldwide? Different cultures, different environments, different applications, different. All sorts of differences. How do I be a better me? So I'm actually asking you that question with how do I take the power of emotion and imagination to shape the future? How do I take those and convert them into images so I can help the people around me? That's what I'm really. That's the reason I do the program. I do all of the podcasts. I think I've done about 400. I do them because I'm looking for new answers.

So thank you so much for sharing because this is very interesting as you're describing all of this. And while my question would be what do you see? What do you visualize or imagine when you say that you want to take care of people around you, that you want to learn to be better? What does it really mean?

Okay, I'll take those two because I can probably give you 400 questions. And I'm not joking. I have a quote in front of me. It says the smartest person in the room is the person who asks the best questions of themselves and of others. Have that for me, but I made that up a long time ago and I posted it right in front of me. So I'll take those two. Helping the others and helping myself. So we'll start with the others. We've got a global group of individuals working in all different types of conditions within the organization. We have them in nonprofit and for profit, and they come with some of them unbelievable skills and other in certain areas where they need in others. And some don't even know that they have the skills that they have and I have to draw them out and help them out and help them move. And so I'm always. I have this. It's in pay to think, I think is that leader. You individuals follow a leader because the leader will help them get to where they want to go. Every person follows a leader because the leader will help them get to where they want to go. It's an underlining premise that if you, let's say we're in a military environment, there's 10 people and the person who's leading is going to walk them into dying. That's when people have mutiny because they say, you're not going to take me to where I want to go. But if you meet somebody and you're and that person you feel is the person going to get to where you go, you might follow them for a period of time. And when it diverges, it diverges. So my challenge is how do I improve my skill sets for the different types of people, the different. We have them coming on all the time so that I can do a better job to bring them up. And I can give you an example of that. Very quickly we brought on 40 people into project Moonhot at once in Macedonia. It said Macedonia, if you're from Macedonia, not Macedonia, that's commonly used, but there they call it Macedonia. And the president of the country, former president Jorge Ivanov, asked if I would present again at their conference. And we made a change and we ended up bringing them all on board. And some of them are unbelievably brilliant. And I'm having challenges getting their engines going because they're smart on paper, they've done all the careers and things, but the engine, it's. I'm using all different tools that I can and I'm struggling with that. So that's one then with me, we're evolving in all our organizations. So the people we bring on are brilliant. They're just absolutely unbelievably brilliant. The person who launched, when you get a text message from Amazon, that made that whole system for all of Amazon's on our team, one of the top project managers who worked with Paul Allen, Bill Allen's Paul Allen is on our team. One of the top computational social scientists is on our team. The number one mining person in the world underwater, land, high altitude and the moon is on our team. And in each one of them, they're just absolutely brilliant. So I'm constantly questioning how do I make sure I have that new skill set that they're going to need in advance of them. Needing it so that I can help them achieve their desired outcome or our desired outcome collectively. So those would be two examples of where I'm struggling. And I do this. I struggle with this every day. How do I make that next best step?

Well, thank you so much. You shared a lot.

I got it. My head is overflowing. That's nothing. Go ahead.

A lot of details and a lot of emotions, actually. And I appreciate your genuine desire to help others and become the best version of yourself. And so if you really do want to kind of get into it and use this as a coaching session, I would ask you, out of all of this stuff that you mentioned, what is the most important or urgent for you to focus on right this moment?

Okay. In our conversation, and I'm. I'm still in 1 and 2, so I'm following your out in the 1, 2 kind of 3, but I am following it because I want to understand it for the purposes of use cases. The most important is a. That's a. When you think of running large scale projects, you actually have to move many things forward simultaneously so that they can intersect at the future. That's a kind of predetermined point. So when they converge, the value becomes amplified. That is a project, if you think about it in small terms. You and I'll give you, you have a home, you're going to make sure that the foundation is put in and the electrical and the plumbing simultaneously, they have to kind of be put together. Because if you don't do that in the right timing, in the right sequence, the convergence of putting together the walls or the siding or the drywall or the roof don't come together. So I would say the most. It's not in a most important thing, it is. The thing is to move 40 items simultaneously forward with the right people inside of it and the right funding or philanthropy for philanthropic work to meet those needs. So that's kind of pushing mountains simultaneously. Did I answer that okay or no?

Well, yes, thank you. I mean, you giving me two metaphors, the mountains and the house, and I love metaphors. And so very vivid images. And so using those images and using your background, what do you need to focus on in our conversation to move it forward as you want?

I don't know what I'm missing. So I'm using every tool I can. And you've read part of Paid to Think and you could see it's just full of tools. So I'm trying to use everything at my disposal, not knowing what will work and what I have a Good sense of it, because we're doing a lot. But at the same time, I feel inadequate constantly. Like, am I doing enough? Am I pushing it enough? And it's not a workaholic attitude. I don't grind my teeth. My wife is an amazing wife. Lori is her name. She really, she would tell me if I am. I sleep incredibly well, about seven hours a night. I don't wake up in the middle of night screaming that the world is falling apart. And so I don't know. And that's kind of like. That's where this hypnotic state, this self focusing, all of these pieces. I'm trying to integrate what you've been saying, the visualization. I'm trying to put. Put it into a framework. I know what we looking to accomplish. I can actually give it to you. It just take too long for us to do it now. I know what we're building and I know the pieces, many of the pieces that have to be integrated into it. But how do I make it move faster? I don't. I don't even know the answer to that. So how do you, how do you answer the question that you don't know the answer to?

Well, I mean, no one has a crystal ball.

Okay.

Right. I mean, no one has that magical power to read or to really speed something up like that with a magic wand. But I think that sometimes we may be. Sometimes we want to see things sooner than it's possible. And I don't know what's realistic or not in what you were describing. And I think that if you were to look at it from outside in, from the perspective of all of your managerial and leadership experience, which is like a vast experience to bring into the table. But if you were separate a little bit emotionally speaking about emotions from your project and look at it from outside in as a consultant, as someone with all of this experience, expertise and experience, well, what would you see?

So you're asking me how would I give myself my own advice?

Correct.

Okay. So that's an interesting dynamic because I am told constantly by people it's impossible to do what we're doing and the timelines won't work. And on and on and on and on. However, there are a lot of people who actually believe it is possible based upon this. So if I was to give advice to myself, what would I tell myself? It's. I had two things come to mind. I'll give you. The first one was, I would say there is a lot here holy. Your life is going to have. You're going to be really Pushing this hard for. I'm going to die at 100. My thing is, I want to die at 102. Retire at 100. So you will be retiring for the. You'll be working your butt off for the next 40 years. And the second one is you are on the right path because you are still asking tons of questions and you haven't settled that. You feel that you have them. And probably the biggest strength if I was to keep amplifying it was to keep on finding people who challenge your assumptions, to keep on finding new answers. So I would say you are missing pieces, but you're still going in the right direction. It's that you often there are. Sometimes you need to reprioritize those lists and you get stuck where you are, which I know, you get stuck and you don't move to those spaces soon enough. You have to do them faster in those areas. And then I look at my calendar. I'm actually looking up. I had 38 hours of meetings. 38 meetings last week. 38. Which is incredible. If none of them are a half hour, they're all hour to three hours with our teams. So I don't feel. I saw. That would be kind of. I don't know, Mariana, that's kind of the advice that I would give in that. In those two dimensions that first came to mind.

Well, thank you so much for that advice. And as you. As you heard yourself say all of that, how does it feel for you now?

Individuals believe that I love what I'm doing. I actually. I am not in love what I'm doing. I believe it's the thing I need to be doing so I don't wake up with a passion. Oh, I gotta do this. Like people wanna. There's this one guy, he's a jerk. He wants to touch a billion, make a touch a billion people and make a billion dollars. He's got all these billion things and he's a jerk. He's an absolute jerk. And people follow him because he's got these big lofty goals. How do I feel? It's tiring to think in those dimensions. It is. My body just went like. So I just keep on doing what I'm doing. So I don't know if I would say that. I don't feel bad because I expect it. I don't feel good because I don't. I just, you know, it just means that I keep on doing what I'm doing.

Yeah. Well, so thank you so much. And as.

And I know that's your coaching technique of Thanking. I'm just. Yeah, I'm just fine with you saying thank. I got it. So where do we go from here? So I'm good.

Yeah. I. Yeah. No, okay. I. I got it. And you got it. We both got it.

Y.

And so I'm. I'm. I'm thinking, like, I'm hearing two different things almost.

Okay.

On one hand, I hear, well, yeah, there are some things that are missing, because that's what you were asking before of me. Like, what am I missing? So that there must be realization of what's missing. Because you're saying, yeah, there's some things are missing, but then also you. Like, there's a. The thought is processing itself forward to. It's not really all that important. Almost like it implies itself that it's not really important what exactly is missing? Because I'm figuring it out. I'm figuring it out as I'm moving along through this journey. So I'm hearing those two thoughts. Yeah.

Yeah.

And I'm also hearing that, you know, sometimes we feel impatient when we're just not. When we're just tired. You know, we're just like, tired. Because that's another thing that you're sharing.

I'm just like, there are days that I'm very tired, and I would say two to three days a week, I want to stop.

Right.

I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy. So now. Now, this is where I. This is why I'm doing this. You have emotion, imagination, imagery, visualization, and all these words. How do I use them where I'm not using them? That's what I'm trying to leverage. Does that make sense?

No. No. Well, I mean, it makes sense. It's in terms of how you're processing it right now for yourself, because you're trying to understand the concepts and what we're talking about.

Right?

But it doesn't work like that. It just doesn't work like that. Right. So.

Okay, so this is going to be cool. Explain that.

It just doesn't work like that. So what I'm doing actually right now with you is we are trying to answer your own questions, right? And I am changing your perspective on how you look at it. And therefore even your thinking and your awareness, your realization, by looking at it from the perspective of all of your years of experience as a consultant, as an entrepreneur, as an investor, and so on and so forth, there's, like, a lot to bring to the table. And all I actually did is just said, if you separate yourself from your project and just look at it as a professional consultant, experienced investor, all of those things, what would you see that you may not be seeing right now? So basically it's a change in the angle of how from what position you're looking at things. And that's also the use of imagination. There's a use of imagination in just looking from another perspective. So that's what we did. Now it's like really short segment. And then also when I asked you how do you feel and then brought something back to you, some feelings came up that I don't know how dormant they were for. To what extent?

No, I talk about them all the time with my wife. What I shared with you is I'm. There's a word people say that they're transparent. No one's transparent. Because if you're transparent, you'd want walk into a room and say, you stink, you smell. I don't like what you're wearing in your hair and all those sort of things. I'm. I'm is pretty open to sharing the things that I'm sharing. So, yes, I sit down with my wife and I say to her, no, I don't know. I mean, there's another obstacle, there's another mountain, there's another thing to pass. She has confidence in me. And so I often draw on the confidence of the people around me. They will say, no, no, look at this, look at this. Okay, I didn't see that. So the different angle I'm trying to figure out, what angle might I be missing?

Well, no, so what I'm saying is that as we go through this type of coaching session, with every question, I'm going to be bringing in something that may feel a little bit different because she's going to be seeing things differently. Sometimes it's going to be you. Sometimes I'm going to notice something and bring it back to you and then ask you how you feel or think about it. And that's what I do as a coach. And so, like right now, you went through so many different things in your responses that I would still come back to our. Coming back to our conversation and coming back to what I would have done in the coaching session would be. I would still be creating a clear goal. Because what you're describing to me is not a goal, it's a vision. You have a pretty clear vision, but I still don't know what it is that you specifically want to do in this particular coaching conversation.

In a particular. I mean, if we keep on calling it coaching and a coaching session, that's a different story. If we're talking about reshaping tomorrow and thinking differently, which is the title, then I. What I'm looking to do is personally be able to reshape tomorrow by thinking differently. So it's very clear what we're doing. We have a 40 year plan, establish a box with the roof and the door on the moon through the accelerated development of an Earth and space based ecosystem. Bring those innovations in the paradigm shifting thinking from the endeavor and turning it back on Earth to improve how we live on Earth for all species. We actually have a four phase development of the moon. We have diagrams, maps, models, forecast plans, pitch decks. All of those things have been built. We have teams that are working on it on a regular basis. We spent just on our scale model. We spent on. Phase one was 3,000 hours and eight months. Phase two was 18 months and 10,000 hours. If I was to go to our platform, we have pitch decks that are in design, 23 hours of videos filed or patents, trademarks and copyrights on it. We have paper, we have people individual working on it. We are bringing those together and project management teams and building that out. I mean I can go through each one of them. So we have very, very specific outcomes of each types of activity that we're working on. But my role is not to do each one of them. My role is to lead it through. It's. I'm. I don't like to use words because they make me feel bad, but I have to give a definition for you. I have to help be a coordinator or an orchestrator or whatever definition it is. I can't get too far into the weeds because they're better at the team is so much better than I am at these things. They're just experts in their fields. But mine is to make sure that I move that project or all of these projects forward. Whether it be the in the. In Los Angeles, the project we're working on to build what we're calling the Odyssey. Whether it be the chatbot system or the it's not an AGI, but let's use AGI system that we're building. Each one of the projects that we have are being moved forward. So I still have to be the best that I am to all of them. And my challenge is am I living up to my expectations or theirs? How do I help them make it happen? So to reshape tomorrow thinking differently, I mean the podcast is redefining tomorrow.

Exactly. And I'm only referring to it as coaching session because that's exactly what we do through coaching and that's exactly what we do in each coaching session. So because when a client comes in, like yourself, and talks about vision and lots of different strategies, strategies and, and action steps and a lot of intricated aspects of their businesses, it remains unclear what is possible now, like right now, and what's in front of your face, what's in front of your nose, even. Right? So because you can't embrace unembraceable. When you're in a conversation with someone that you want. You want to get help from or you want to help, right. There has to be a definition of what is possible for this conversation. What is possible right now? What is. What is important for you to focus on in the, like, very, very near, like, right now, like, right this moment. And so when you're describing all of these things, it means nothing. Okay, so meaningless. I'm not saying that it's meaningless. It's very much meaningful. But it means that we can't address any of these things because we cannot address all of it at once.

So what I'm trying to do right now is I'm trying to find a way to get away from coaching as a concept, but get to reshaping tomorrow for me and for the podcast so that individuals can reshape their own future themselves because they're not going to be coaches. So I'm trying to change the conversation to find out how this tool set that you've got, because you and I had a mixed conversation as we got to this topic. We moved around a lot, and I think we spoke for two hours or two and a half hours. And what I'm trying to do is create a new tool set in my mind by tying together some things that I'm not seeing so that I can use them better. So I'm not looking to be a better coach. I'm looking to be a better me. So that's what I keep on trying to pull back to. How do I. I'm not going to go to a coach because I get tons of advice. I've got. We've got tons of people on our team. We're constantly giving us advice and helping us very smart people worldwide. And I'm not just saying that. I mean, we got. Some people are just like, really crazily bright. How do I help them in my job to reshape tomorrow? How do I make sure. So if the. If the comment is, then what we need that I need to ask, I need to become a coach, then I can follow your lead. If you're saying ask questions to have them visualize or become emotionally connected? Well, yeah, that's something that I might be able to do better. And I'm trying to figure out what that may be. So I'm bringing it down to, like, raw. How do we, how do I help do my job better?

Yes.

Does that make sense the way I kind of strung it?

Well, yes, it does. And I think that, well, you know, coaches, we don't give advice, so we ask questions. And the reason, the reason that we're kind of mopping this as a coaching session is because the tools that I'm teaching, my students, that teach the tool tools I'm teaching in communication classes, the tools that I'm teaching and sharing with you right now about how to reshape the future by thinking differently, are the tools of how to ask yourself questions so that you can formulate a much more specific and healthier images that you can that will help you follow along one step at a time. And how to make decisions based on the power of emotions and imagination, how to create clear goals for immediate future as well as for overall future that you want to create. All of that has to do with those tools, you know, the, the application of emotions, imagination, and understanding how to listen to yourself. And I think that asking yourself or whoever you want to help, as you were saying, the right questions, you know, and, and, and, and focusing on that.

Why doesn't a coach.

Well, you know, coaching again, see, we're going to be jumping.

Yeah, I know, but I'm. Because, yeah, because you brought it up. And I'm writing, I'm writing pages and notes you've brought back a few times to the coaches and give advice. And I'm, I'm asking for advice. I'm asking, how do I do something? And you're not answering the question. So that's why I'm asking, who gave the rule book? Coaches can't give advice, right?

So we provide best practices, we provide resources, but we don't give advice. Because people usually ask for advice, but they hardly ever follow the advice. And I think it's because that the best answer is going to come from collecting all of the information that they can get to, including internal and external, and then making decision that they need to make. And coaching is catching on fire globally because I think that secretly or not so secretly, human beings don't want to be told what to do. We want to be empowered to really understand that we can think for ourselves, we can make those decisions, and we do have answers if we really look attentively. So not all of the answers are internal. Like if I'm going to ask you, well, you know, I want, I want to build a bridge. Well, I'm not going to meditate on that and find an answer internally. But there are answers outside of me. There is research. Maybe I should take a training, maybe I should do something else, you know, get mentorship, whatever, Right. But the answers are out there. And I think that the client can put those strategies to get those answers and then come back to the next session and then move it forward. So it's about asking the right questions, it's about looking inside and understanding what the obstacles are, because most of our obstacles are internal.

So. But going back to the question why you're giving me what's happening, but why doesn't coaching give advice is because, I believe, because someone came up with what they think coaching is. So a coach on a soccer field, football field, a coach gives advice. He does, she does. Do it this way. Change your foot, move this angle, switch your legs, work with the team different. Here's a mapping, here's where we should go. Coaches have always, throughout history given advice. And I think, you know, this data about coaching glowing globally is absolutely sorry, completely incorrect in the way in which it's actually forming. So here's a quick history. I'll do it for the speaking industry first and then come back. Prior to the year 1999, before the dot com bubble, people worked a lot for corporations. They were big, they were tied to them. And then we had the dot com bust and a lot of people lost their jobs and they hung up shingles. And the speaking industry was doing fairly well. People got paid. And then what happened next was kind of interesting. The conferences did not have enough people coming to them. And the worst part of any conference is a panel. It has always been the worst part. You have an hour, you have four people on stage, five minutes for introduction. Each person goes through who they are. They, they made us five questions or answer seven questions. And by the time you're done, you only have, you know, 18 minutes of fame. But they invited people to come speak. So everybody became an expert. And there were more panels than there were in 1999 because they wanted people to attend. So they use them as leverage points. Everybody hung up a shingle because they didn't have any money. They were. Businesses changed. So then it changed. About midway through, people started saying, I'm not making any money. And they got jobs once again because running a business is really tough. Then we had the Lehman Brothers collapse. And the exact Same thing happened again. People lost their jobs, they needed to have incomes. They started to become consultants and advisors because they figured out how all this experience and most coaches or speakers don't make money off of. They don't survive, they don't do as well as people might think. What ended up happening was go through the mid 2010s to 15, same thing happened. More panels, more people not succeed, less speakers on stage as individuals. And then we had just recently the COVID dilemma. So we have a lot of coaches. So you could do the same thing with coaching. Coaching has been exploding, but most coaches aren't making enough money to live by. So yes, it is an explosive industry. However, you gotta have people doing the work. So a coach gives advice. Throughout history, the industry of coaching has morphed because the opportunities are there. But most of these people who are selling on Instagram and TikTok and every read the reviews, most people in those audiences don't make it. So are we following a pathway going back to reshaping tomorrow? The real thing is, how do we create a new tomorrow? And that's what I'm trying to find out from you. Not just the coaching, but how do we. So if you're saying ask questions, great, but I'm still looking for answers. So I'm. I'm kind of empty. Like, what do I do next? Does that make sense the way I'm saying it?

Well, everything makes sense. It's just that you have to ask those questions and then you have to respond to those questions. But if I'm asking myself a question and then not responded, then what's the point of asking a question?

Well, again, it's so like, for example, you have your next importance of having a clear goal. Explain to me where you're going with that. Let me understand that.

Right, so imagine you getting into a cab and you're saying, just drive around, because that's what we've been doing, you know, today we're just kind of driving around. And so it seems that the topic is reshaping the future by thinking differently. And yet we are stopping by to grab coffee, stopping by to grab newspaper. Then maybe one of us met a friend and we said hi, and we're just like, you know, a little bit all over the place, right? And so when it happens, when you're actually asking yourself a question that is focused, that's supposed to help you to determine what you need and what you want, and it get. And the attention gets like, not focused, then the results are like not there because it Needs to be a very focused goal.

So the. But do you not see that the focused goal is I would like to reshape tomorrow and think differently. And I'm not looking to be a better coach. I'm looking to reshape tomorrow and think differently.

Right. So reshaping tomorrow starts with you. Right. So reshaping tomorrow starts by shaping what you want for yourself and for your future. That's how you reshape your future. Reshaping the future starts by imagining what you want, creating a vision. And that, that vision, like if I would ask you to. Well, you already have the vision. You have a really have amazing vision. It's going to take a while to achieve. Right. You're going to be hundred years old.

And then I retire.

Right? And you'll never retire.

No, I'll retire when I'm 100. So it's good.

Retire. Okay, so. But you know, if you were imagine whenever it is that the vision that you have, it's achieved. You got this vision done. It's done. It's. Everything is done.

Yeah.

And you feel good. You are completely satisfied. Your team, all of the team members, everyone who works with you and around you, they're all thrilled. You got exactly what you wanted with your vision. It happened. It have happened. So now if you look back and take literally walk backwards, one step at a time, maybe one year at a time from 100 back to where you are today, maybe that will give you clarity. Then the question is, okay, now as you're walking back backwards and then you can look, it can stop at any point, right. And look back into the future and ask yourself, what did I have to do to get from where I am to where I still need to get to? And so if you like, you can kind of walk back all the way to today and maybe look in front of you. Look in front of you. And it may be overwhelming to see all of the things that you need to do to get there, but maybe to look at what do you need to do today or tomorrow or this week that's going to help you move forward. And those questions that you need to answer, I don't have the answers for you. You know, if I even if I would be available for advising, like, no one can really tell you.

No, no one can give this. Well, they can. They do give. Yes, people can give advice or they can participate by finding the answer of what needs to be done. So when you share with someone an outline and you say, what is your timeline? What are the things you want to accomplish? And you say by 2032, 2031, I want to achieve this by 2036. I want to achieve this by putting in those deadlines, those dates. There are things that have to be accomplished. So in, in our, in our timelines, we have. It is. It goes to 2031, then we're going 2036, then we go out to 2046, and then we go to 2063. So we have broken down into four phases. In each side of, in each part portion, there are things that have to be accomplished. So they have them. But it still doesn't make me better. We just have it. So I'm. Yeah, and I understand you can go backwards, but yeah, so I'm visualizing it. So I'm taking your visualization and the clear goals. So what. How does a clear goal look to you? Like, how do you shape or help? How do you personally. How do you personally shape a goal for you?

Yeah. So, you know, for me, I think that you have to find a vision that you completely and totally resonate with. If the vision doesn't give me energy, I'm sorry, it's the wrong vision. Like if I have a vision that makes me feel tired, as what you were describing, it's probably a really good thought. I mean, it's probably a good idea to consider either doing it differently or doing something else if it would be me, simply because again, the image will give us the energy to move forward. If the image is making me feel as you were describing, I don't know, I just. Oh, I'm tired. Right. Well, then something needs to be tweaked here.

Well, I'm tired because I'll have 38 meetings in a week or 28 meetings. I still take my time off, I still rest, I get my sleep. I'm not tired in that sense. I get because pushing mountains. It's. It's because of the scale, size and scope. It's not because there are things that we're doing inside that I absolutely think are amazing. It's. I think it's what we need. You know, if you look throughout history, there are individuals who worked and worked and worked and worked because it was something that was necessary. It's not always they're in love with it. They just knew it was necessary. And so I don't have, like, if you asked me to go dancing tonight and you were the right person, we were on dance floor. I'll dance the four in the morning with you for sure. I love to dance. That's a different type of energy. But if you get on our calls with our team, the team will say, oh, my God, you bring all the energy all the time. And we were on a call, had a lot of energy, but it doesn't mean I don't get tired because I'm working. So it's a different type of question. But if you're saying for you, do you. Your vision that resonates with you. So you're saying you start off with your vision. Do you start off with your emotion, your imagination and the images, or do you start off with a vision?

Well, so, you know, since we were talking about you from, like, for like, almost two hours, you know. Right. So I think that it makes sense to stay on that topic since it's already kind of explored. And I think that what you're describing in your. In your response, it becomes clear that it's not a physical type of overall type of tiredness, but it's an emotional, it's mental type of tiredness, but it's still there. So I would be asking you or myself if I would be in your shoes, since this is what it's about, how to ask the right questions. I would be asking, what can I do differently? Or how can I turn this mountain into something more feasible? How can I think about it differently? How can I think about it differently? So it's not. So it doesn't feel. So putting it in, I would have caught myself. Right. Because I almost say it so it wouldn't feel overwhelming. And that would have been right. And so I would have caught myself in that thinking. And I would said, you know, so what does it have to do to think differently so that it feels easy or easier and doable? And I would probably ask myself to create those words, like, how would you speaking about turning negative into positive. So now it feels overwhelming and like a huge mount pushing mountains. What other metaphor would you like to use that would give an opposite feeling, feeling that you want to have? And what words, what images would you describe it? That would be another question. What images or what words would you describe? How do you actually want to feel that are realistic and doable? You may not know exactly how to go about it yet, but what would be those words, you know, and that would be a starting point.

Okay. I'm trying to think of things because they're one. One of the members on the team says, you've been doing this for this amount of time and you still don't love it. And he loves it. And I say, I don't have to love it to do It I have to make sure it's done. We don't always have do things in life that we love. It doesn't always translate that way. In China, actually, there's a saying, you don't do. You don't do what you love. You love what you do. Meaning that the government might give them a job to do and they retire from that and then they're given another job that they do. And he says, you don't. I just love it because I was told to love it and not being negative against the Chinese culture. Not at all, because I loved living in Asia. So I'm trying to think about how to be able to turn some of these things, which are just really challenging all the time. So I could say that I love being challenged all the time and I do love that there's diversity of the work that I do every day. And I do love the people that I interact with. And I do love all of those things. Just there's a lot. So I could say that I don't love that. There's always a lot. But I signed up for it and I could unsign. I've asked my wife this and she says she would tell me if she thinks it's the wrong thing to do. So I don't know. If I have to think about it, I don't know how to turn it into something. It's pushing mountains. Not in a negative way. I don't think of it in a negative way. I think of it as. They're just. There's a lot of things that have to be done. So I don't sit back and say, oh my God. It's not. It's just. I think it's all achievable. Otherwise I wouldn't be doing it. Does that make sense?

It makes total sense. And yet pushing mountains image gives you a feeling of being tired.

No, no. When I say I'm pushing mountains, I just know that I have to push mountains and I can push mountains. I've done it before.

Right. But as you're reflecting back on what you shared before, the feeling that you shared before when you have that image, what was that feeling?

The feeling was, I need new skills. That's it. How do I. How do I. When you move something and we all done things in our businesses that we don't like to do, no one loves everything that they have in their business. The accounting, the filling out, the government tax forms, the getting on a plane. You could love the whole thing. Thing. But you don't have to love Everything you do. I can't think of any business I've owned. I've loved everything that I've done because there are challenges in every one of them. And in each one of them, I would say, I've never say they were mountains because they weren't as the scale wasn't there. But I'm still asking, how do we. How do. How do you make that transition? By asking another set of questions as myself. And I'm thinking of the people on our team. They don't always. Maybe they don't want to change, maybe they don't want to see a new option. I'm trying to find it. So being tired is maybe I would say that's then the wrong word because you've got an emotional connection to the word tired. Tired is. There's a lot going on. Yeah. But I'm, I get my seven hours of sleep, I go through a day. I'm not mean to people mix. I get on calls with amazing people. Things are working, but it's still tiring. Like going to the gym. When you're done, you're tired. Could have had a great workout. You still could be tired when you're done. Does that make sense?

It does make sense. But you know, I would challenge you to listen back to our recording.

Oh, I do.

And listen. And listen back to your response initially to that kind of similar question. Right. Because I remember it a little bit differently in terms of how you were expressing your emotions when you were talking about this big mountain that you have to push every single day.

Well, yeah, it's a lot of mountains.

Not just one mountains. Right, exactly.

There are mountains and I, and I do see them as mountains because they're 40 year plans. So should I give it? I mean, you don't give advice, so that's a. Okay, so. So how do you create that clear goal then?

So, yeah, so the next question would be for you to ponder what image? Like what image? Because you said many mountains. What other image you could replace it with that wouldn't feel as overwhelming and yet realistic enough?

I don't. Again, I don't feel overwhelmed. But what imagery does come to mind for you when I say I don't.

Know, I mean, I don't know. I just.

No, when you heard it, if you were to substitute out. Because it's not about coaching, it's about helping, what imagery do comes to mind when you think of, let's say someone said to you, I feel overwhelmed. Or what do you think of when you change it from overwhelmed to something Else, what do you do?

Well, you know, so overwhelm, the opposite of overwhelm, could be many different things, depending. Not only depending on the person, but also depending on what that person is overwhelmed with. So the opposite of overwhelm could be peace of mind or could be what. Whatever other phrase. It could be peace of mind. It could be feeling more creative. It could be having better strategies so that. Or hiring other people. It could be like I could be actually seeing that in my mind's eye. Right. I could be seeing solutions. Because usually when we ask questions, a lot of times people actually jump to seeing solutions, like, almost right away. I mean, David, you were talking a lot about creating systems and strategies in your book, Right. And so the next logical thing that comes to mind, what other strategies and systems maybe put in place so that it wouldn't feel. So it wouldn't feel like there's. That. That many. There are so many things to. So many mountains to. To move. Right. But then again, I don't know, because you. I'm hearing two different things from you, actually.

Sure.

I'm hearing on one hand, you did say it in the beginning that it feel like maybe you didn't. I don't remember if you use the word over, but I don't.

I don't use that word. So.

Yeah, but.

So something else.

But you use something that gave me the feeling that you were describing an incredible level of overwhelm.

So that's not. That's not the definition. So I apologize for that. No, I don't feel overwhelmed. I feel that I've got to make a transition to. In some areas to improve my performance. So the secret is I create podcasts to learn from people. That's the reason the podcast came about. It was, how can I learn from people? Not for the economics, not for getting the name out there. The number one reason, you can see it everywhere on anything that has to do with our podcasts. And this goes back to the first podcast in 1999 or something. They all were about how can I learn? Right. So I find people like you when I've got another one tomorrow and I've got two next week, is so that I can hear different perspectives.

Yeah, I mean, it's. I appreciate that. And I think that it's about asking the right questions. So, like, I don't know how someone else is feeling, and I don't know how. What metaphors someone else can be seeing in their mind's eye. And I don't know, actually, many mountains could be a good thing for Someone who likes a lot of things, a lot of action and you know. But you did say I'm tired. And then it was clarified that you are not tired physically, but you're tired in other ways. And so I think that you know, when we are tired we're not really even bringing ourselves 100% anyway. So what are your thoughts about that?

Oh, that's so I would say that you. The many mountains became a metaphor for people to understand that we are not there. There are in a mountain range. There are a lot of mountains to create a mountain range in. In. People might say we have a lot of projects to work on. But if you looked at the scale, size and scope, people kind of push back because it's. They're, they're large enough, they feel like they're, they've got to be moved individually. So tired in other ways. Am I tired in other ways? Yeah, there's not a physical. I still have all the energy I need and I'm ready to rock and roll every day. Do I feel giving it 100%? I would say there's no, you can't do 110%. That's impossible. I love when people say give it 110%. An engine burns out at 110%. I would say the sine wave where the wave of the work. I am a sprinter. I can really turn it on. Then I need to turn it off. Then I really turn it on and then I need that break. And I know that I've learned that over time. I'm not the everyday person. So for example, my wife and I have worked together for 37 years, 38 years. She, she's more day to day, very consistent on it. I'm the person who goes out and bam. Gets it done and then I need some of the break. So I actually live within my rhythm, if you want to say. But the ideas of systems and structure, how do I get them done faster? How do I get them created faster? I don't, I don't know. I haven't been able to solve that.

Right. Another question is actually since we're looking at a 40 year span for this project and you already saying that you are tired, so how sustainable is your energy going to be 10 years from now, 20 years from now, 30 years from now and all the way to 100 years old, you know, so I.

Mean all of those questions, my immediate reaction is unbelievable. We'll be able to do it. Not even an issue.

Amazing. So one of your first questions of me was what is Missing. How do I answer that question? Yeah. So, I mean, we're going. We look, we're kind of walking around the circle because I ask a question, and then you respond and say, well, actually, I don't have a problem with that. I don't have a problem with that. Then we go into another question, and you're going, you know, you're giving me a lot of. A lot of details, and you say a lot of different things. And you say, well, no, actually, I'm good. I don't know.

It's not. I would never say that I'm good. I would. I don't live in the past at all. I mean, I don't think. I don't spend time. So my. The. It's not that I'm good, because I wouldn't be on the call if I didn't think that I needed to evolve.

No, I'm talking about specifically answering that question. What's missing? So you think I'm good in terms of. Yeah, that's not it. So you answer the question. You're like, oh, you explored a little bit. And you're like, no, that's not it. And then something.

I didn't. I don't think I did that. I. When you use words like overwhelmed, that's not what I would say if I did say I was tired. Yeah. There are many days during the week where I say I think it was. And I don't quote many people like this, but Elon did say, I think just recently, that's why I'm using it. He said, the first three months of starting a business are exciting and fun, and after that, it's just a lot of work. And it just is.

Okay.

It just is. Right. I mean, you've known entrepreneurs. You're an entrepreneur. Is every day a great day?

That's not realistic. Right?

Yeah. So. Yes.

So. But still, back to your question.

Sure.

What is missing? So what is missing for you somehow is connected. How do I make it faster?

That's one of them. Yes, very much it's one of them.

And so. And there are other questions, too. So when we're talking about defining a goal, we can only talk about one thing. So is it about what's missing? Is it about something else for you? And then you can start, because one question, as you start responding to that question, is going to lead you to another question, and you kind of drill down until you found. Until you find the actual answer. It's not a process that's just going to. Okay, I'm just. Just going to one answer, one question, another question, we're done. It doesn't work like that. Right. And sometimes the answer could be something that you don't want. Want to hear. I mean, you know the answer.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

And actually it reminds me one of your TED talks when you were showing in the PowerPoint like some that I don't remember exactly what it was, but you were giving an example that you can't like want something that's like out there. You have to really talk about your purpose. You have to talk about, to be more specific in terms of what is it that you really want?

Oh, that was the redefining in Dubai.

Exactly that. So it's kind of along those lines. So. Because I think that the question what am I missing? Is so general. What am I missing? If I would have been asking myself that question, I could have like. Because you're asking me what I would have been answering if I would be kind of self coaching. Again, it depends on what is it about. Is it about my fitness route routine? Is it about my business even? Because you're talking about your business, evidently. But even if it's about my business, what phase of my business, what aspect of my business, how does that even. How does this question in itself connects to my personality and what I represent in church, you know, what I represent and what obstacles, what challenges may be arising due to my personality. Like for instance, I know of myself, I'm extremely controlling. And I love when you were saying that, you know, actually it's not such a bad thing. You know, micromanagement is, you know, we.

Have to pay to think.

Yes, it depends on how you do it. So. But maybe sometimes I'm sure I'm doing it wrong, sometimes I'm sure I'm doing it right. But. But it's those questions, how do you do it? What do you need? And what, what do you want to really look at specifically to identify what's missing? Because there's just millions of different areas in our minds, even about each single aspect of what we do. And so the more you narrow down your question, the, the better answer you'll be able to.

Which is redefining. Yes, exactly. So if I was to be more precise, and thank you, I am completely vague in that when I'm saying what am I missing? I'm saying to myself, what am I missing in my skills to be able to grow the people and the organization, both in syncrums, the systems and structure, design technologies, tools and leveraging and those that are involved in it, so that we can accelerate and meet the timelines and deadlines we're looking to accomplish. So if I was to be more precise. It's time. Not about the systems and structure. We're very good at that. I can find any document going back to 1999 within less than two minutes. We're very good at that. We have a CRM system with 30,000 names in our personal. My personal database is 30,000 names. I could tell you what happened in 2009 by just typing in a few letters. I mean, all those things are easy. Mine is being the person that I need to be. So when I ask that question and you're right, and if you even go to. To the one and do in Hong Kong, I address it there too. Is it's trying to figure out what am I missing because I've pushed certain things to their end. The equipment can't. It doesn't. We. We need to make another jump. And I believe maybe I'm wrong. My evolutionary change will help and those around me make their transitions. So when I say it that way, you're absolutely right. And the things that you were just outlining, getting another question and being imprecise in the way in which I formulated that state that challenge statement. It is specific in my head. Yes. It's in this one categorical place. How am I in these areas that the organization needs being able to do it? And I'll be very precise. I want to lead from behind, not as much from in the front. And there's a huge difference between that in terms of strategic positioning. So that means we have to grow people faster or find the right people in the right places or build the systems and structure. And build the systems and structure so those individuals can thrive. So it's very precise in the type of skill set that I'm looking for. Absolutely.

Okay, well, that's. That we're getting someplace there. Right? Right. So if you have that awareness, then are those do what might be a clue that you have about a specific set of skills that you're looking for.

Okay, so what would be a clue? I guess it's funny because it's. There are a few individuals worldwide that we have. These conversations are more challenging. Is that the trying to say it in the right way? Because of the redefining. And it's a great tool, by the way, that redefining. It's absolutely amazing. And I will toss out while I'm thinking that they screwed up in Dubai with the recording five times when I started. And I kept on telling them they have to Redo it again. So I actually walked on stage five times. No, no, no, we're not using this. You missed it. Where's the. Where's this? Where's the sign? Where's the this? And they knew that they had screwed up on it, that something was just wrong with all their tech. But it ends up being good presentation. So I would say that I believe the systems and structure, the design, the tools and paid to think the approach that we're using is okay. That part of the challenge is that individuals who are looking at the project we're working on have a challenge getting their mind around it. And I haven't figured out that solution yet. Meaning when people hear what we're working on, even gutter. What's it. What. I don't remember his last name. Water said. And he's the foremost expert on context variation by design in the world. He's. And he wrote a paper on us. He said, I don't know how to think this big. The one of SpaceX number four. Higher. Hans Kunisman. He said, I don't think SpaceX is thinking as big as you are. We get that all the time. So I'm. I think that one of the key pieces we're working on it. We are. Is how to be. And I'm not the person who can figure it out by myself. I know that. How do we make that work? How to. How do you get people to think bigger? Do we need to. And in some cases, no. But in certain cases we need to get people to be able to understand something that just. It's different. And I don't. I'm looking for answers. I don't know.

As you. As you are listening to yourself, processing out loud, how does it get you closer to understanding what skill set is specifically missing in terms of clues that I was referring to for you, for your skill set?

Oh, it gets. Get me closer to finding that answer. It's. For me personally, I don't have an answer for that, for the things that we're doing already, because that raced through my mind. I had two things. One was, what are we doing already? And the second one is what do I need? What we're doing already is we're working on several pieces of it, but identifying and finding the individuals that can help us are still a little bit elusive. And I'm doing podcasts. I'm reaching out, I'm connecting, I'm sharing the story. I'm trying to find new people and different ecosystems. I haven't found. I don't know if There'll be a magic bullet and I haven't found that thing. That's where. That's why Reshaping Tomorrow Thinking Differently was that I like the title because want to figure out what's that? What am I missing? Like somebody else I think has to help me see what I'm missing so that I can uncover it, discover it, redefine it, reuse it, retool it into the. Into something that can make it work that makes sense.

Well, so what I'm hearing is that there isn't a certainty whether anything is missing in fact or not. But you kind of thinking that there may be something missing. And then when the.

You're absolutely correct in the way you assess it. Correct.

And then when you're asking yourself that question and when you're answering. I'm sorry, when you're answering that question out loud right now with us here together, you're going into what you are doing and what other people are doing and expecting, but not about actual clue of what may be missing in your skill set. And so when I'm reflecting it back to you, what are your thoughts?

I'm tying this to creating a goal. So that's what I'm trying to do in my head which is the bullet point number three or four in the decision making. I'm asking myself if maybe the question is the wrong question which is what you just defined. Maybe we are on the right track and we just let it run. I don't. There's a side of me that doesn't like to. I don't like to tell myself or become too the word English word, which is not a great word, cocky. I don't want to be that person. So to me, and maybe it's a poor definition to feel that I absolutely have the answer. Sounds like an arrogance. So by saying it the way I'm saying it, I'm trying. I'm forcing myself using language to be open to hearing other thoughts.

It's very interesting because most people would feel that when they're describing everything that they do and how they do. Well, maybe a little self conscious on that front, you know, but I think that what I'm hearing is that. I'm just thinking how does it really connect to a skill set that maybe or may not be missing and to maybe it's the wrong question altogether. Actually.

How far have you gotten in Paid to Think?

Two chapters.

Okay. In those two chapters there's a lot of rethinking everything. I think what's in the second chapter is it called Rethinking, I don't remember. There's a lot of counterintuitiveness in there now. There's phrases that we use that we bite into and they just don't make any sense. And that chapter is really redefining chapter. It's making you rethink things to say, am I. Am I missing or. I never looked at it that way, so I've done a lot of that and maybe I should not be looking in this one category and say that I am. So I could say, no, I'm on the good path and we're going this way. And I think that it's to going good. I don't. I don't know how to accept that. Well, that's what's going through my mind.

Okay.

I don't. Because I'm looking at a. You have two of them. You have clear goal and making important decisions, which is your next one after it? So I'm asking myself, is that a good macro tactic which will get into chapter three? Is that a good acceptance that I should employ? I don't know. It's a. I got a smile on my face. I don't know. You think that I have a lot of questions all the time. And I hope that those questions keep me young. I mean, I had a guy on a call today. At one point, he was talking about having to give it up and passing the baton and his lifetime. And I said, how old are you? And he says, oh, I'm 57. And he said it in a way that it was almost as if he was dead. And I've said to people this all the time. People live to 35 and they die at 70 or 80. Once they get there, they don't transform. And I. Unbelievable. I'm thinking, oh, my God, if I thought that way, I would never get up in the morning.

Morning.

So I don't know. And I'm not trying to. I'm not trying to be a pain in the ass and I'm not trying to use a swear, but I use a swear because that's what came to mind. I'm not trying to be a pain. I'm trying to figure out this thinking differently. What. What am I again? What am I missing in the construct of helping our team? Helping our team, helping the individuals we work with to overcome what they might have that I might have?

Well, and just a few minutes ago, I heard that it may be the wrong question. So what would be the right question that you want to ask yourself?

I don't like any of the answers that flew through my head, but they were things like, just accept it, move on and take it. And I'm like, oh, that, that. That is just to me, putting your concrete cinder blocks around your feet. There's the imagery just saying that, you know the answer so convincingly. That would be putting concrete blocks. I would. I could say that maybe in this one space or the one challenge that I'm addressing, let it run. It's working. I could say that. Would that change things? Yeah, it definitely changed things. I mean, there's no doubt about it. Do I feel comfortable as a goal to shift? I don't know. I'm uneasy. I would say. See. See how I don't use the word S T. Yeah, I'm uneasy. That's a better word. I'm uneasy with that thought of complete acceptance of it.

So I have actually. So this is really good for our conversation because the goal, for instance, judging, I mean, receiving what you just shared could be self acceptance, a better self acceptance could be a clear goal, could be a goal that we could be establishing, for instance, right. And again, it goes all to the internal, internal, internal, internal. And then if you so. And what you were saying, let's let it run. And then you kind of change the kind of metaphor that didn't make you feel good to a different metaphor that made you feel better. But still there is uncomfort. There's a certain level uneasiness. I would say that whenever we go through any change. And I know that you wrote about change as well, right. Whenever we go through any change, it may be something that we're just not used to, so we have to adjust to it. And it may not be comfortable even when it's a positive change. Like for instance, someone gets married, right? You buy a new house, it's a beautiful house, but you may not even get used to like I live in a new house for seven years. I still trying to turn on the switch doesn't exist on the wall, right? It's like. So we are creatures of habit. And to break a habit and to get open to something else is also a sign of growth, right? And so. And you, both of us, we pride ourselves on being able to. To keep growing despite of our age, right? So as we keep growing, that's a sign. That's. That's beautiful, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's in Paid to think. I'm almost positive it's in there. There's a lot. There's a section on. There's four types of change. And when people say People hate change. I say no, they don't. And you just did it. So there's four types of change. There's negative and unexpected. And there's negative and expected. Unexpected. You break your arm, you break your leg, you get a bad phone call. They're negative and unexpected. You don't like those. You don't like. You don't like negative and expected bill do. At the end of the month you're going to have to meet somebody. You have to go visit your in laws or whatever it may be. But there's positive change that is expected. Gonna get my paycheck at the end of the month. We're going on holiday. But there's unexpected. Positive and unexpected. Hey, I won lottery or you know, there's a it's a girl or they're getting married. All of those things. People do love change. The challenge with leadership is in business. Most change in most corporations for the average individual or in leadership is negative or negative and unexpected. Not positive, positive and expected. And if leaders could change it is an upside down and solving a. So yes, it's in the book. You have a different version of it. So the page won't work. It's upside down and solving the dilemma. So in the sense of can I accept this? I got things running up my spine. So how do you then take. And I'm talking you not coaching. How do you make an important decision? How do you do it?

Yeah, there's so many different ways. My favorite way is to use my why. So my why.

My why like W H. Yes.

So your purpose. Right. Why are you on this planet? And it took me a while to understand what it is. And I think that it's an extremely useful exercise to make that clear to yourself. It doesn't matter if other people understand that sentence. Right. It's just important that you do. And I think that when I look at it, whatever decision that I have from the perspective of my why whatever decision even when. But it's important decision. It just doesn't. It kind of puts it in perspective. Right. Because my why is always bigger than any decisions that I have to make. And it just allows me to look at it from like a. To have like a mountain view. A bird eye view.

Yeah.

To.

You had to bring up the mountain, didn't you? You had to bring up a mountain.

Got it into my head. We got mountains now have mountains. Mountains and peaks and whatever.

And valleys and. Yes, yes. Okay.

And so that's. That's my. I think it's. And it's. But it doesn't always work, but it works 90 of the time.

So has your why changed?

No, my.

Oh, really? Wow.

Yeah, people, you know, again, so I wrote a book about it, right?

So.

So I co wrote a book about it. So I don't think that we should like kind of switch to different topic altogether, you know, But I think that your purpose is just one purpose. But just people misunderstand it a lot of times in terms of how they fulfill it. Like, so how what you do can change. Even what you like and how you like to do it can change, but your underlying main purpose is not going to change if you identify it truthfully and genuinely.

Another interesting one. I'll give you an example and you tell me what you think. There's an individual that I. One of my best friends that I had while I was in Hong Kong, one of the first friends I had in Hong Kong. And this person did not want to have children, not at all. And very interested in business and having fun and living life. And at one point being married, she got pregnant and that kid came. That was the end. Everything that she had espoused to for entire time, knowing her years in a heartbeat, everything went to this person, this little baby and her why changed. People who've lived through natural disasters, their whys change. People who live through, well, wars, conflicts, financial ruin, divorces, they're wise change. Yours doesn't. Can you explain that, what that means when you hear this?

Why is your life purpose? It's your philosophy of life. Your wife doesn't really change. Tragic occurrences may shake your belief in people, may shake your belief in yourself and your future. It may not. It would make you like not want to live your why. Because living your why takes courage and determination and energy. So it may kind of completely kind of kill all of the desire to even move forward, all motivation, but it doesn't change your why, actually.

So can you give me examples of whys? You could use yourself or you could use somebody else without, you know, you're not going to give a name. So I'm not afraid of that. But can you give me examples of whys?

Sure. But I mean, okay, it's just that we're talking again about so many different things.

Well, we're talking about decision making. Yeah, well, and we're talking about goals, right? You're talking about decision making and goals and you say that your why is important. Yes, it then it ties to decision making, correct? Every decision.

Yeah, but every why is very private. You know, it's very personal. And so there's a whole, like, science of how to get to it. So, like, for instance, mine, again, I can share mine is my why. Yeah. My why is that I believe that the best in me brings out the belief. I'm sorry. Brings out the best in, in others. Right. So the best in me brings out the best in others. And of course, like, I can explain that, but I don't have to because it's my why. Do you know what I mean?

Yeah, no, I understand that. I, I, I'm, I'm now understanding how you're defining why.

Yeah.

Okay.

I can bring you someone else's.

Yeah, some others.

Yeah.

That'd be interesting.

Let me find. Find them. Yep.

I know. I can hear you typing.

I'm just trying to. Because I can't. I'm sorry if you.

No, no, you're, you're doing fine. I, I know this is not, I.

Don'T remember other people's whys.

That's okay. That's okay. You, you've written them down because you wrote a book on it. So you're pulling things, things up to say these are some of the whys that people have. And that's fantastic because you're saying, make an important decision. Well, and it ties to your why. So we have to know what a why is defined as. And so this is perfect.

So here's another why. I believe reality is created the moment we acknowledge and act on what matters most. That's it. That's why. Right. So I hope you're getting a gist of it.

You don't know that. That's interesting because I had not defined the why in as broad a brush. So you're defining why. That isn't it. There's no specific, it's not a specificity in the way that I thought you would have defined it. It's a just a, A life spirit. I don't know if that's the way to say it.

You're getting it.

Yes, in the why. And you're saying that that has never changed for you.

So I think that people sometimes don't realize it's actually, it's not so easy to genuinely come up with a why because it shouldn't be more than one sentence. And there's just so much to each individual. Right. That it feels almost like impossible to put in one sentence, but it's truly an essence of who you are.

If you remember in the redefining. Redefining is bringing it down to one sentence. So if you remember, I think I put on the board in Dubai I think there was a big thing of one person who went on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on. And so there's no clarity in it. So yes, the one sentence brings the clarity to it. When did you come up with yours, do you know?

Not that long ago, but I don't know, seven. Oh, really? Seven, eight years ago.

Okay.

I mean, it's always there, but it's just. I never really even thought that I needed to define it in any way. Like I just. Because people kind of feel it. Speaking about imagery, people feel it. It's like in your undercurrent. It's there. It's there because it's you. It's you. But very few of us take the time and energy to actually craft it into a sentence and to understand. But it just really. I think it's an amazing tool for self understanding and then for self realization, also for making decisions. Yeah.

So I'm going to take it and I'm going to turn it into a tool. Well, no, because that's going back to reshaping tomorrow and thinking differently that if in fact you can get individuals to get to. There's a question, why are you doing this? And in Project Moon Knot, we actually have why are we doing this? We've got it defined. It's very clear. Why we're doing it and how we're approaching it is very counterintuitive. But if individuals could be asked the question of why on a personal level they do what they do, not even their engagement in whatever they're doing, why do they do what they do? You can. That is a cascading domino, a bunch of other words that could be used. I can't find them means by which to reshape tomorrow. So if they can get to that, then they can take. But working backwards, they could decide if the decisions they're making are in line. It could decide if their goals fulfill that application. They can determine if their images meet their why, and then they can reshape the images and their imagination. I think they use it imagination to determine if inside of them they're playing the right music.

Yeah. And so going back to creating a goal and why. I fell in love with coaching, by the way. Speaking about coaching. Yeah. That one sentence. Practice is one of the techniques that we use to identify a clear goal for each coaching session. So not only for overall vision, overall engagement, but what do you want that we can do together within 30, 40 minutes or an hour? Right. And so again, I'm not bringing it Back to coaching.

No, I know you're describing why it fits who you're describing why it fits you and your methodology for reshaping tomorrow. So I understand.

Right?

So yeah, that's perfect.

If you were to speak to yourself, because we're talking about asking questions and applying these tools. If you were asked yourself, like even because before, without a goal, we can't make a decision because there's nothing to make decision on. Right. And so if you have a goal and if you. Let's say the goal is acceptance and self acceptance from what we were talking about before and now I just want to let it run. I just want to let it run. And your reactions to I want to let it run was like, oh my God, am I ready for this? Like this kind of excitement mixed with. With other feelings that I was listening even through your voice without seeing your face. And so then the next question to ask is how your decisions are going to be informed differently from that position of allowing it just run.

It's a bad example, but it's a good example. Okay, I'm going to give it to you. And the reason I say it is one of the individuals has got a lot of challenges, but Bill Cosby, that's the guy who has the challenges. Bill Cosby was sitting. And I say that in a way that I know prison and the things that he did are extremely bad. Bill Cosby was sitting next to Jerry Seinfeld at a bar. Not a bar, at a, at a bar, a physical bar. Could have been in a hotel bar or something. And they were talking. And at one point, Bill looked at Jerry and said, you can relax. You've made it now. Jerry was at the top of his career and still driving. And he said, no matter what anybody else had said, it didn't make a difference. But when Bill Cosby said to him, you can relax. You've made it, it was the first time in his career that he relaxed. So the decision, the way you're saying it, that's a. That was advice, by the way. He's saying, you can relax. That is advice. I'm now asking the question because for me I've got to ask. The question is, am I not have. If you met me 10 years ago, I'm not the same person I am today, period. End stop. Am I not allowing that to happen? Is kind of what I'm asking.

Not long have I to happen.

The. The acceptance of certain things are going the way they should. Like, am I not have. Am I not saying too much myself? You are on the right path often enough. Not that I have to say it a hundred, 100% of the time, maybe 62 instead of 57, but maybe there are more times. And I think individuals in general, human nature is drivers, builders, creators. I would say anybody, a mom, a dad, a. Everybody has challenges. Are. Is there a time that you can let go of certain things maybe earlier than when you became older? And I think that you probably have met a lot of older people who said, if I wish I knew what I knew now, then. And the fact that you just came up with yours about seven years ago is an example of it. What you just described, you got to a point and now you're, oh, now I know why I did the things I did. There's a clarity. So I'm asking the same question as maybe, maybe I. I need to say to myself more often, give myself a little bit more of a break. Give me. And I. I don't want to call a Cosby moment, but am I not allowing what I say to myself or others say to me to sink in? Because I'm driving, I'm focused on moving. Does that make sense, the kind of way I twisted it?

Yeah. And so how are you processing that now? You know.

I know I've met too many people who are. Who could be great people who fell in love with themselves. And I've always had a fear of becoming a person that I don't even like myself, that others don't like, not because I need to be loved. People don't like me. And the way I do the math is there's 8 billion people on the planet. Half the people can like me and the other half don't. I'm good with 4 billion. I'm gonna stick with that number. So I'm good with the math in that regard, but I'm a little bit more comfortable with the fact that maybe my meter, whatever it's marked, I don't have a gauge, wherever that meter is, I have to become another accepting of the fact that it is what it is working and that the confidence that I do have can allow myself to let go of certain things and make others work, which I have probably not. Probably it's a definite. I have not allowed that to come in because I want to make. I want to be the person that I. I believe I can be. So maybe I need to let go of that and grab something else. And there's a saying that I think it's a pain to think, and it's a bunch of things you can't get to the other side of the pool if you continue to hold on to the rails. Yeah, so I have another one that you know those type of things I give all the time. So in my own sense I'm telling it to myself because the quotes are for me you can't get to the other side of the pool if you don't let go of the rail. And maybe there's a rail here. So bringing it back to decision making I would say which is also in the five the wise that are in or the definitions of redefining. You'll see it, you'll see it in next chapter. You'll see a lot of things we're talking about in the next chapter. We call them desired outcomes. There's whys, there's the redefining. I think that that's an interesting way of redefining the decision making process. But I think the why is a part of it. I think the way you're defining it is what is my why needs to be in parallel processed from 1 through 4 in our outline before you can get to the decision.

Right. Well you know, I mean speaking about why it's a real, it's a, it's a tedious process to kind of hone it down to what it means. And so like if anyone is interested to get to the actual process like the book is literally self coaching guide, you know the book that I co wrote.

So what's it, what's the book's name?

So the book is called Me My brand and why.

Okay, it's okay. So we got it out there. The how do you take that in you for you or for friends, relatives, your family? Because it's got to work everywhere. Ubiquitousness is important. How do you take that to a blueprint? I mean I always start with me if you hear me say it, I always start with me like how would I do it? And then I don't know about you but I've been in many environments where people come in and they give advice and I say okay, let's do it. And they say what do you mean? I said well you just told me how to do it. You've just told us you're going to charge all this money, let's do it together. And I can't tell you how many major corporations have give pitches people who in high level. And I've said well let's follow exactly what you've taught us. And they say what do you mean? I said well we'll pay you for it. And they don't know how. So I'm actually asking the question, how would you or how would you advise someone you cared or loved to take those decisions and move them to a blueprint?

Well, so like for instance, you, like right now you were saying, well I could just let things be the way they are or I could accept different reality and let things run. Right. And so with that I could have asked you like literally to, you know, to imagine two different futures with two different choices. So like let's say if you take yourself into the future, you pick what interval, how many years ahead you want and if you, if you were to pick the future that is a result of you doing what you've been doing so far and you know, moving all of these mountains and whatever, however you.

Were describing it, you love that, don't you?

Yes, I do. Well, you know, because I also love the. Another metaphor that you said you like orchestrating. So being a musician myself, orchestrating is also another thing that I kind of relate to. Relate. But, but yeah. So when you were saying to, if you were to imagine that future and like, like let's just take one, one at a time. If you were to imagine like you didn't change anything and what interval are you thinking about in terms of years?

What It's. I have two in mind, 10, 30, which come to mind. My mind tends to go give me two, two numbers all the time no matter what. So 10 and 30.

Well let's look at, so let's do 10 and 30 for just taking the case that the attitude is the same and nothing was done differently. Right. You know, so what, what do you see? And if you could just like take yourself to that 10 year span and feel as much as you possibly can, that body, seeing things around yourself, realizing who is around you, how people are treating you, how you're treating other people, how they're treating each other, what's happening with the business, how it impacted strategies and systems or whatever else that's in place for your business and for you personally, just look at all of it and embody it like this is happening for real right now and just kind.

Of try to digest it happens in seconds. It doesn't even take more than. It's a, it's a. So I was letting you go through the exercise, right. Of sharing those points. Oh, immediately it was, it would, it would work yet it would be harder and it didn't need to be.

Well, great. So do you need to go to the 30 year span or you get.

No, I did both. I did both. That Was. I know. I. Yeah, it's just, it's instantaneous because I. We have plans. I mean, when people say they've got a 10 year plan or a 30 year plan, I say, let me see it. And they'll say, well, I just told it to you. That's not a plan, that's an idea. And individuals don't know the differences. It's amazing between a plan and an idea. And I get tons of people saying, well, that's the plan. And I say, that's not a plan. You just, you spend four minutes or 20 minutes describing what you're thinking about. But a plan would be something more concrete. And so in third, in a few seconds I realized, and I wrote down, because I'm writing as I shared, I said, it's going to be hard. We're going to get there, but it's going to be harder and more work than it needs to be, right? And then when I went to, what if I made the change, the simple change, we're only talking one category, the category of how do I improve my performance so I can help reshape tomorrow with the work that we're working on immediately, I said to myself, it's very simple, but I gotta say it. I said, you're a fucking idiot, David. That's exactly what I said to myself because. And then I said, should I use in my mind the Cosby moment or the Cosmi thing? Because I've used that Mini to this. And I, at the same time, I said, I can still be me. It's not going to change me to be more accepting in this one area of the work that I'm working on. It's not on everything. It's not in every single thing that we're doing. It's just in this one area, which I think is something that needs to be transformed. Wouldn't it be easier if I just said, yeah, I think we've done a good job. Let's just move it on. I don't need to, I don't need to hold on to it. I don't need to hold on to the rail. I am going to swim to the other side of the pool, which will have another rail. It's not easy to not have rails, but I will swim to the other side of the pool, which will really move us ahead faster and make it easier and probably most likely less obstacles, less, less challenges along the way in certain areas that don't need to be there. So by letting go or transforming, those things happen. So it's an it's, it's an easy one. And then the next translation was because I. Language is important. As we talked about in the very beginning, I know that the language, words that have to change, there's a, there's a language change. So if I don't change it in language, it doesn't matter if it's in your head, you have the words you use. If you notice, I always use challenge. There's certain words that are very often used. Yeah, it would just, it would make it simpler in those areas. So yeah, so I, I can see small little pieces of. It's not a blueprint, it's an adjustment.

Exactly. So basically you're getting it like right now. So when people. First of all, not every, like not every time that you're going to be asking yourself question questions, you're going to be actually coming up with a decision, actual decision, because like we were talking about before, sometimes it's serious of questions and you have to hone it down. And I think that one of the important questions when you want to make a decision is what's going to help me to reach this decision? And you know, going back to coaching, one of my favorite questions when I hear that someone wants to make a decision, the first thing that I'm going to ask is about what is your process for making decisions? Because you know that's my preference is to use Y. But maybe you have another like really great process that worked for you in the past. So who am I to argue differently, right? I mean some people may be happy to just flipping a coin and they'll be happy with that result.

If you, if you from the TED Talk and I, there's a pro. What happened was, and I think I mentioned it, there we were standing, I was standing in the corner, we had about 15, 13 big bore pieces of paper hanging from the wall. And one of the people in the room said to me why? And I instantaneous reaction. I said why does it matter? And he looked at me and I said, let's slow it down to micro decisions that you make between this point and that point. And I said the why won't be impactful here. It needs to be later because in order to answer this question, you're going to ask about 30 questions or 20 questions inside your head to get there. You jumped it. And so the process of redefining took three years to create. It didn't happen in like a week. It was three years. And it's only maybe eight pages in the book. So yes, develop the process that you will always end up with a better decision than the decision you had made when you first initiated it, even if it's only by 1%. But the process that you had, you had watched, you will always every single time come up with a better decision than the one that you originally made. So, yes, I do have a process to give you. There is a process that I would follow. Yeah, that's. That's cool. The blueprint side, I know that's a whole different ballgame. Are you a person who writes. Writes them out? Are you a person that draws diagrams? Do you create charts? How do you create your blueprint?

None of the above. Okay, right. And so, again, people are there different. There are people who love lists and a lot of create pros and cons and all kind of, you know, follow all kind of templates. I just literally work with questions, both for myself and my clients. And, you know, I just work like that. But there is no lack of supporting tools, tools and templates that I can offer. And if someone likes those things that they can or have used them in the past for themselves, then more power to them.

But nothing. It's only in your head.

I go by emotions. I go by kind of feeling what I want, and it kind of creates something. Something in the back of my mind that kind of gets me to it. Like, for instance, I'm going to give you an example, and you may tell me that. You may say to me that it's a coincidence. Maybe it was. But, you know, I came to the United States in 1979 from Ukraine, and I hardly spoke English. But the first thing that I decided. I don't know why I decided that, because we moved into. We moved to New York. So I lived in New York all this time. I decided that I'm going to teach at nyu. I had zero credentials. I have, like, nothing. Like, zero. I didn't understand when people were speaking with me to me. You know, it was just. I went to the library. It was my very first library card. And it was a time when I felt pretty lost. Lost, actually. But I had that image. I don't know why I had that image. And that's what I wanted to do. And guess what. I mean, you don't have to guess because, you know, that's exactly what happened. And I think that, you know, when we have something that we really want and we actually create, like, of course I had to learn English because if I wouldn't speak English, no one would even. Like, I wouldn't be able to say that I want. Yes, I wouldn't be able to express. Right. You know, so, so clearly there are strategies, there are action steps that I had to do, but if I wouldn't have that in the back of my mind, I don't think that I would even seen the opportunities, because there are a lot of opportunities around us that we don't notice. And, but, you know, if, if something is in the back of your mind, you're going to notice opportunities and you're going to create opportunities that are going to help you get to what you really want to get. And so I don't know. This is how it always worked for me.

No, no, it's interesting that you've done it in that way, because I am thinking about some of the things that I do which are very different than that. So that's why I was asking. So the image comes to you, and do you see it as a visual? Like, did you. Okay, yes, yes, because I, because you use the word imagination. And I'm trying to make sure that it's not sense, it's other senses and other things that are there.

Well, I think it's both. I think for me, it's, I'm, I'm one of those weird human beings where it's all kind of balanced almost. So I think that kinesthetic and visual are probably a little stronger than auditory, but I have all of them going on. Right. And so I usually feel it. That's why to me, emotions, kinesthetic feeling is very important. Like I felt being in the room and teaching, like I felt it physically. And I also had an image of me doing it, you know, interesting.

I, I, I'm trying to think of myself. I don't know if I have that type of imagery of outcomes. I have certain, in certain places, I.

Had the same thing with my school. Right. I mean, because all of my colleagues were saying to me, like, why, why do we even need this? Why do you need to have a school? You have a really great practice, you have clients, you know, there's like, why create more, more work for yourself. You don't really need it. But I can't explain it. I just had this vision. I'm a teacher at heart, you know, first of all, I wanted to be more realized as a teacher, as someone who creates things, who creates courses, who teaches the way that I want to teach versus teaching it to a certain extent, the way that someone else telling me how to teach. Right. And I just, I don't know, I just wanted to do it and I did it. That's It. That's all I can say.

No, no, that's okay. I. Like I've said, there's. We all develop. I don't know, we all develop. We have inside of us different mechanisms to allow us to be able to make decisions. The decision making, the blueprint. Yours has an imagery to it. I don't have that same. I actually do have a book called It's. My wife has never looked at it. I have a book called it's kind of my success book. And I keep track of all my successes. It's in a list. It's pages and pages of things that I've done yet the reason is because people remember their failures better than they do their successes. So I decided I'm only going to keep track of my successes. And it's, it's huge. I mean, it doesn't have to just be business. It could be when I flew over Victoria Falls in South Africa or when I moved to Hong Kong or was a. It was the first time teaching at NYU or it was the first time in country. So I've kept track of all of those for years. They're dated very small. It says, you know, 2008, Lithuania, Vilnius, something. But once I've done it, I can't add it twice. And I use those as references to keep me on target to say that you can always add to the positive things that happen in your life. But I don't have imagery the way you're describing it. So I'm asking myself, maybe I can try to use imagery. And I'm thinking about how do I do that? Yet I draw, paint and sculpt all the time. Which, it's funny because you would. You probably assume that I have an image of something, which I don't.

Well, you know, it would be interesting as an exercise, as a possibility. You know, like I'm, I'm. I'm making a inquiry.

No, you're not. You're giving advice, but you're, you're couching it differently. Go ahead, go ahead, go ahead. I'm okay with it. I'm okay. Say it, say it.

Actually, it's not an advice. No, I'm literally curious. I'm curious. And if you don't think it's something that you would like to do, that's fine too. Because when people give advice, they literally expect the advice to be followed. That's really the nature. That's actually the nature of advice. That's it. Right. But if I share something, I don't expect that you necessarily going to even agree with me, you may say, have another idea in mind or you know, whatever you told me, it just doesn't resonate at all. Which is fine because I have no attachment like zero. But I'm curious, I'm curious, what would it look like if you were to paint your future the way that you feel it?

So yeah, I'm asking myself, what might I even draw? One of the things that I say to people is, would you like, would you like a suggestion? So I always ask people first or I might say in certain environments, I'm going to give you some unsolicited advice. And, and I, but I will couch it that way because I let them know that that's what I'm doing. I'm going to give you some unsolicited advice or I'll say something. There's a bunch of them that I use, but I use them to let them open up. So for example, you saw my background in behind me. I would say that I've told people, get on and it just happened yesterday morning. Person, wow, what a background. And I said, would you like to hear the story? I always say that because if I started to tell it they'd be bored as convey. But when I say would you like to hear the story? Every single time, it is absolutely. Oh, I'd love to. But then you can tell a full story and no one's going to interrupt because you've been given permission. So in the case here, I heard it before you even said it. You had a piece of suggestion that it would be interesting if I took the time to set down and see what that looked like. And I don't think that's a bad thought because I did get there. But it's an interesting thought. Was. I don't know, I don't know what I'd even put on there.

Yeah, you know, I mean, I was thinking about abstract things that express emotion versus actually, you know, trying to create a map or something. But you know, I, I was just curious but have like zero I, you know, it's, it's whatever you, whatever however you want, wherever you want to put it. Wherever you want to put it.

The interesting thing, if you had said to me, David, do you have it? And diagram of the 40 year plan? And I could say to you, it's to my right.

Yes, I've seen it.

No, no, no, no, no. That's what you see behind me. There actually is. And there's a, there's a whole video of this. I sat down, I've done about 100 of these I draw out out of my head without pre drawing in almost every case. And I drew a whole picture of what do I see involved in the 40 years it's already outlined. And there's a picture of it so I can see what that's supposed to be that I can and I drew it out but I don't have a life one. So that's an interesting. And it would probably take some time for my. I don't like to like I don't sketch it out. I just sit and I say okay, let me draw it. And there's an imagery to it. So. So let's hit some of these bonuses here. You had checking your assumptions, using to your own thoughts, listening to thoughts of others, reshaping the future. What do you want to hit?

I don't know. It's like I'm looking at the clock.

Unless you don't want to to that's fine. I did the longest we had on our other podcast series. I got a call by this guy named Casey and he said, he said, I want to be on your podcast. And I said okay. He says, let me tell you something. I've listened to every podcast that you produced that's available. And in every podcast someone says something they've. I've never heard them say before for he said, there's a guy by the name of Robert Zubrin on the podcast I'm making it. He's a founder of the Mars Society. He said, and he's about third. I think he's 37, 38. He said, I've been listening to him since I'm nine. I've read every single thing he's written. I've heard every interviews ever had. I've inter looked at every single thing that he has produced, audio, whatever. I've been all the speeches and he said things on your show he's never said before in his entire life. And he said and almost everybody that I know that has been has said things that I've never heard from them on your podcast. So I don't know why. Maybe I'm a pain in the. As I've said earlier, I take people on a different journey, but I'm actually here to learn from you. That's it. So we've had podcasts the longest one, five and a half hours. Zig Ziglar said something in the podcast. I was asking him questions. I didn't understand what he was talking about. And he said, oh, David, I don't know how to run a business. I write speech. I Write speeches. I give speeches. And it was something else. I didn't know how to run a business. I gave it to my son. He does that. I don't do any of that. He'd never said that. No. I. I couldn't figure out how he's building his businesses. And he said, I don't do that. Or Jill Tarter, who started SETI Search for Extraterrestrial Life. Halfway during the interview, she said, well, I'm on the call with you so you can give me answers. Okay. I didn't realize that. So I'm. So if you want to, it's up to you. If you're. If you're good, we could stop. I'm here to learn from you. I've got you on the call. You'll never be on again. If you want to talk about these things, good. If you don't, I'm good too. I. I do not back to back an interview. I always put time afterwards just in case. And the longest interview I ever did, five and a half hours. And it took a while to get warmed up like we did. And he, he. I was bursting from all the drinking and I got on and we. After the call, I said. I grabbed my cup and I said, I'm dying here. We. You created a safe word. He created. First one ever, said, we need a safe word because if I have to go to the bathroom, I need a safe word. I said, great, but we're not going to edit. We'll just cut out the section. We'll just be quiet. And he lifts up a bottle. He says, I drank this, then I drank this, then I drank this. And I'm thinking, how do you drinking so much? Then he picked. He reached down, picked up a bottle, lifted it up, and it was full. And he said, I drank this and then I filled it. So he was filling it while he was on the call. He's a helicopter. Military. Military helicopter pilot. So to him it wasn't a big deal. You just keep on going. So that was. No, that was in five and a half hours. Five and a half hours. That was three, four and a half hours. Another one was five and a half hours just recently. So up to you. You. If you want to talk about these few, hit them quickly or not, you tell me.

Okay, well, you know, so. Yeah, we can, we can hit them.

Okay, go ahead. Rock and rock and roll. I'll. I'll try to sit back a little bit.

Go ahead. Okay, so. So, okay, so checking your assumptions, that's the next one, right? And so I, I think it's just important when you are coming up with all of those things and when you are making a decision, when you, when you already have your, you know, you know, where you're going, where, how you want to get there and all of those things. It's really important to check your assumptions. I. @ NYU, one of the courses that I taught was interpersonal communication class, and I created an experiment and the experiment was based on my acting background and it was just really interesting. So very simple. I told, I took two students and I said, I'd like one of you to be imagining that you're knocking on the door, your neighbors, and you're knocking on the door to borrow some, whatever, eggs or milk. And the person who is opening the door, I'd like you to know that this person who is knocking on your door, she or he has been recently released from prison, okay. Or whatever, whatever negative thing that you want to think, right? And so the person who's opening the door, she's not saying a word, right? And the person who's asking, she's just like, know, asking regular, regular voice because she doesn't know, she doesn't know what the other person is thinking. So I told them separately, well, you asked this in front of the whole class. And I whispered in the other, you know, in the other person's ear. Like, I want you to say, to know as you're opening the door, I know that she has been released from prison like recently. And so they go through this like 20 second exercise. And then I said, okay, let's do this again. And then I took aside the person who's opening the door and I say to her, well, you know, so now that you opened the door, I want you to imagine that this is a neighbor with whom you really wanted to get closer and become friends for a long time. And you're so excited that she's finally knocking on your door, right? And so, and then when this happened, the interesting, very, very interesting thing that happened as a result of it is that, that the person who was asking to borrow milk felt the response even though nothing was ever said, oh, okay, yes, right. And so, but I was also asking the person who was opening the door, imaginary door, what were, what were her expectations based on what she knew or thought that she knew about the other person, right? And then we kind of switched and the person who was asking, I gave them like a negative image and then the positive image. And so the bottom line of this exercise is that what you assume of other people and of how they're going to receive you or not receive you, and what you think of them is going to 100% impact the result of that conversation. Right. And so it's so important to check your assumptions because sometimes we think that people read our minds and sometimes they actually do in that sense, you know, because we do pick up energy. We pick up energy from other people because our basic nature is animal nature. Right. So we pick up. We know when someone is afraid. We know when someone's happy without them necessarily sharing that out loud.

Yeah.

So that was a point that I wanted to make. Should I go to the next question?

If you'd like. I mean, the first thing that just one thing that came about is we. I say that. I actually use this, too. I say we build our lives because of assumptions. We have to. So, for example, when we get out of bed, we put our feet on the ground and we make the assumption that gravity works. So that's how we're able to balance our lives. If everything was unassumable, then we'd have a lot of challenges. So I guess I would kind of add a layer on top that we make the. Some assumptions work for us and some don't. We have to figure out which ones do and don't.

Right. Exactly.

Okay.

Okay. And so the next one is listening to your own thoughts. So many people at their different level share with me their personal gremlins and so thoughts that are kind of undermining thoughts. And I'm actually surprised how many people who are like, leaders and like you would think that they wouldn't have those doubts. But they're human beings just like the rest of us. And I'm especially amazed to hear some things like, you know, I'm not. I'm not good enough. I think I'm going to fail or whatever. Or usually it's the voice that's coming from outside in. So it's like, you're going to fail or you don't deserve this, or who do you think you are? Or whatever things. And so I think that these thoughts are important because I think that if you realize that you're more than your thoughts, then you can shift them and change them and actually embrace them. Not agreeing with them, but maybe having a conversation. So there is a really cool technique that I use that I like to use, which is called parts technique, where you literally ask, where does this voice coming from? Who does this voice belong to? But then also inviting that imagery. Right. To talk to other parts of you, because you have more than we all have each person has lots of different parts. And so a part that wants to go out, a part that wants to stay in. And so most of those sorts of sort of negative parts, there are two variations of those, of those type of parts. One, the voice that comes from someone else we used to know, like usually not very supportive parent or maybe not very supportive teacher or an older brother or something like that. And there's a. There are probably, you know, different techniques for that. But. But also there are voices that literally represent another part of you. And if it's another part of you, and if it's genuine part, it usually sounds like it's a negative part, something that creates an obstacle towards what we want to achieve. But in reality, all that part wants or those parts want is to protect us. It's coming, they're coming from a really positive intention of protecting us from failing, protecting us from losing face or losing money or whatever it's just about. Or even protecting us from getting hurt. So even physical safety or emotional safety. And so. And when we invite other parts, then they can actually talk it out. And when there is this realization usually that, oh my goodness, all this part wants is to actually help me. All this part wants is just to save me or protect me. Then you can come to compromises, you can come to agreements. I even have this technique called conference table where I invite all of the parts to the conference table and then they end up signing an agreement or hugging it out or in whatever way that they can actually feel that they're on the same page and working together. Because the thing to remember is that each part is actually a team member of the host, right? You know, whoever has all of these parts. So it's very exciting. And I work with my parts too, because I know it's probably your next question, right? And so I have many, many of them because I'm pretty complex individual, as many creative people are. I'm sure you have tons and tons of parts as well. Whether you know them well.

I'm reminded by people that I'm too. To close complex, I should narrow it down.

Right? And it's fun. It's fun when you begin to understand them and when they meet each other, like my daughter and I, she always says, oh, I see who's coming out here right now, right? And it's kind of, yeah, it's fun and it's creative and. But the most important thing is that you can turn the behavior of parts that I have been kind of creating obstacles into something that's actually going to be helping you to move forward because they're just going to need another job to do or to do their job differently, rather. So their. Their intention is amazing. But how can you help me without making me, like, fail at my interview or something else would happen? Right.

Yeah, absolutely.

So that's. That's number two. Like, you know, so.

But you didn't. You said your thoughts. So when you say you're a complex person, give me a definition of how you see that falling into your life. Like, what do you do so differently?

Yeah, yeah. Like, for instance, this is a very good example. A part of me that wants to go out because I have a part that really loves people and wants to hang out. And I also love dancing and all of that. But there's also a very much introverted part. Part that wants to just be left alone and read a book and just stay home.

Yep.

Right. And so when. When two parts want opposite things, it creates an internal conflict and it just doesn't feel too good. Right. Because again, then you find yourself at a decision point that you can't seem to be making. Like you don't know what to do. You know, like, on one hand I want to do this, on the other hand I want to do that. So what I do, I get. I literally have them talk it out.

Okay.

So they have a conversation. So those two parts are going to have a conversation and they're going to come to a decision together. That's it.

Are you an extrovert? Introvert?

I'm much more of an introvert, for sure.

Because I am definitely an introvert. And yet I've learned to turn it on to make it work when I go out.

Exactly.

And when you dance, you could either dance by yourself or you go out and dance. So I have to be out. And even when I go to a conference, if I'm not speaking, I don't meet a lot of people. But the reason I speak is then everybody knows me. I don't have to do anything. They all come up.

Exactly. I was just talking to one of my students and we're talking about selling your services because you have to sell your services as a coach. And so we were talking about being introvert versus being extrovert. And I said, I'm so uncomfortable, which is true. I'm just so uncomfortable introducing myself to someone who doesn't know who I am. I would just much rather be in the corner somewhere and I'm okay, like, to spend the whole evening somewhere in the corner and no one knows me. But if people Know me and they expect me. I'm okay to introduce myself and do my bit and whatever. Right. So I'm friendly. I'm friendly and I like people. But there's definitely this like, level of discomfort to make the first move. And I have to push myself when I want to kind of reach out. Like you were saying, like even joining a dance class, like when no one knows you, no one cares who you are. Right. You know, and you want to be friendly, but you have to kind of make the first move and say, you know, hi, I'm so.

But if you're in a dance class, someone will set you up with somebody. You get to meet them. It's kind of, it's coordinated.

Yeah. And it's much more challenging in a networking environment where no one knows you and you know, so on. But yeah. So that's why I prefer writing. I prefer being a guest on a podcast. I prefer all of these other ways of getting myself out there versus going to a networking meeting.

The first podcast I ever did was back in like 1999 or 2000 or whatever. The reason I started the podcast series is because I was not a well known person in the industry. And so what I did is I started a podcast. It ended up, I mean, it was. I had Tom Peters and Brian Tracy and Jay Abraham and Keith Farazi. And who wrote. The guy wrote who My Cheese and Ken Blanchard, how to Swim without the Sharks, Harvey McKay. And I had all these Zig Ziglar. I had all of these people who were on the program and they all wanted to listen to them and they ended up knowing me. So I used it as I wanted to learn. That was the number one reason. But if you called up Zig Ziglar and said, I want to learn from you, well, not going to get a big call or Brian or any of these characters, these guys. And so what I did is I started a podcast series. And it was the podcast series for the New York State chapter of the National Speakers association, which we grew to a thousand members worldwide. And that was how I got the introduction to all the people. So I just called up and said, we have podcast series. So, yeah, leveraging that so that I didn't have to do it the other way.

Exactly. I did something very, very similar with Life Coach Coach tv. So when I joined, when I joined the New York City chapter, even before I was the president there, I volunteered to run a TV show because I was familiar with the how to do it. And it wasn't a big deal for me. And that's exactly what I was doing. And then in 2006, one of my clients, Yakov Smirnoff, he was doing a Broadway show, and I said, well, can you give. Can we create something after the show? And so some people still remember me because of what I did back then, you know, back in 2006, kind of crazy. I was able to get 400 free tickets to his Broadway.

400.

400 tickets? Yeah. For coaches in our chapter back then.

And that starts the ball rolling. You've got some way to. You've got a conversation to be able to make that happen. Yeah, for me, I don't. I don't meet people as easily, but when it starts to happen, I can definitely have a conversation. Can turn, you know, turn it on and walking up. No, I'm not the person who walks up unless I have to. Unless I have to. Like, I know, I know that that's what I've got to do. So I, I, you know, I don't really squeeze my fist together, but let's assume that I had something type like, okay, I'm gonna do this, and I make that walk up and just. Yeah. So great. How listening. So next one on the points.

Yeah, I mean, I think it's kind of obvious. Listening to the thoughts of others is pretty obvious because when you are open to say, to listen to the thoughts of others, you are opening yourself to different possibilities and to seeing things differently. And I think that what we need to remember when we listen to others is to listen. Exactly. Again, something that we were taught in coaching is to listen with the intention to understand versus listening with the intention to defend your own position or offer something else. Just being in the moment while the other person is speaking and just trying to digest it before coming up with the answer. Being really open.

If you noticed, our conversation changed because I was. I wanted to hear you. So I. When you started to share some things about you, because you were giving it a methodology, I was actually trying to hear your thinking. Once I heard it, I was able to adapt, but I couldn't hear you thinking. I was hearing you sharing. And that was different to me. I didn't. I couldn't follow it. The minute I heard, oh, this is the way I do it. Oh, now I can bite into that. Does it make sense? Well, that's what I was looking for. I was looking for that connection, though, because I couldn't find it. And actually, if you go back to our original conversation weeks ago, it was the same thing. I'm trying to find the person inside of the I'm going to say interview, but in the. I'm trying to find the person that I'm talking to during the call, and that's what happened. Once I. What if I could bite into something that when I'm having a conversation with people, I'll often say, let me share with you. If we're talking and they're not getting something, let me share with you the steps that I would go through personally. Oh, then I can relate it not as to what somebody else said at another place at another time. So there's someone else who came up with that quote that said first listen to understand, then not to. There's actually a quote from that, and I can't remember what it is. It's like a. It's a. It's either a verse or something. First. First learn to listen to. First listen to understand, then something. And I can't remember what it is. So I was just trying to find it in my head. What's the last one? Reshaping our future includes reshaping your past. This one I gotta hear. Definitely gotta hear.

Yeah. I mean, we could definitely spend another two hours on this.

Well, you. You. You tossed it in the bottom, so.

Yeah, no, yeah, I tossed it in the bottom because it's not really what I do all that much as a coach. It's something that I did more as a hypnotist. Oh, but we do use.

I didn't tie that together.

Yeah, but with. But we do. But we do. You know, we do employ some of the techniques in coaching as well.

Well, tell me the hypnotist. I'm okay with that.

Yeah. No, I mean. So basically the idea that I wanted to bring in here is that we consistently need to work on ourselves because who are we? We are the. We are the. What's that? Express expression. We are this summary, you know, we are the. The sum of everything that. Of all of our experiences, of all of our beliefs, of, you know, so speaking about the past, that's. That's what we are because everything that we are was created up until to this moment. Right. You know, so that's what we are. And so you can't really talk about the future without looking into your past. Like. Like who made you who you are today and what do you still need to look back and maybe tweak because, you know, you were saying it in your book, you can't change the past. Of course you can't change the past, but you can change your attitude towards certain things that happen to you. Like you were also mentioning in our conversation today people who suffered some tragedy. Right. And so if you allow that strategy to define the rest of your life, who wins? Right. Not you. You know, so sometimes in order to move forward, you really need to reshape your past. And there are lots of different techniques to do that. So there's inner child, you know, that we do teach in coaching as well. So in a child is, again, it's one of our parts. So we really kind of mentioned parts when we're talking about listening to your own thoughts. But it has to do in this case. Not in all of the cases, but in this case it would have to do with maybe reparenting.

Right.

How do you become your own parent? How do you let go of certain traumas that are blocking your progress? Because if you. Everything is about focus, right? So if you're really focusing on the past and feeling still feeling all of those feelings that prevent you from moving forward and looking at what you really want to achieve, or when you're trying to achieve something new and wonderful, all of these feelings sabotage you and pull you back. Well, then that's a really good indication that you got to take heavier look at that. And actually, I've seen. I forgot whom, but I've seen some people were really big shots. You know, people who are in entrepreneurial world who were saying that they couldn't stay in partnership and be productive because their communication skills were not that great. And when they were really digging, when you start. When they started digging in at the causes of why they were responding this way or that that way, it actually took them back into certain moments of their past that they had to rethink. So you can actually rethink your past.

I think that reshaping your fuse includes reshaping your perspective of your past. Yeah, the word perspective is probably the biggest definition of it. So what really happened? How does that. How did it really pan out? What was happening? So by I don't. Personally, I don't spend a lot of time. There's some past study we all have to bring together. But the. Yes, you can reshape that. And I do know that in hypnosis, it's often used to get someone to go back. We've seen enough movies of this where someone goes through the horror or whatever experience they have, good or bad, to find new definitions to what they've experienced. So you're getting someone to ask new questions. Yeah, same type of philosophy I'm trying to think about. But hypnosis doesn't have to have that, so I'll pull that out as it's just one tool within the art. Personal.

Yeah, well, so I think that, you know, like you wanted to hear about me. I think that we don't like, I was always very much future oriented, extremely goal oriented. I get things done. I don't sit on one spot. Right. And so. And I usually go after what I want and you just kind of do it. People usually have like lots of kind of fears and doubts. I just kind of do it anyway, you know. But I think that once you get, for me personally, once I got a little bit more relaxed and I got to a certain level of what I wanted to achieve, like I'm like, okay, I got the level of respect that I want, I got the level of achievement that I want. So I can be like a little bit more laid back now. Even though we're still constantly, I'm constantly going through rebranding, changing, moving. You know, I don't think I'm moving mountains, but, you know, but I'm moving something and moving and shaking something. But so I think that certain things that I wasn't ready to look at, I'm seeing them now and I'm dealing with it now. Like for instance, I didn't even know or didn't want to see that my mother was 100% a narcissist. And she was. And I didn't want to admit to myself that many things that she was doing were driven by that, you know, versus by like actual caring or anything like that. Right. You know, anything like a normal mother would feel. And so, and I didn't go to a coach for the, with this, by the way. I actually hired a psychologist because I really wanted to dig in and I wanted someone who was professional in dealing with the past because that's not what we do as coaches. So when we do, we do, we do touch upon that. And I mean I can help some, someone with certain attitudes and perspectives, but if someone needs a really deep long reshaping and work with that, then it's probably better to see a psychologist because you know, coaching looks at the past only from the perspective of what can we take there that you learn that will help us to, to move forward? You know, it's very purposeful, kind of a goal oriented discipline. But with psychology you just kind of sit there, you sit there, you dig deep. There is no specific purpose other than self knowledge. And that's what I wanted. So, you know, I think that it's also determining what you want in terms of what kind of help you want to get. And I worked with psychology for two years and I'm not done completely.

So I know this is definitely not what you expected, but that's what a good podcast is, is where you go in places you're not sure of. So I want to thank you, Mariana, for your time and definitely do appreciate it. And I, I want to thank all of you who tuned in, listened in, you heard a different journey from any of the other podcasts that we've had in. And I do hope that you learn something today that will make a difference in your lie, in your life and the lives of others. What's the best way, Mariana, to get a hold of you?

Well, the best way to get hold of me is probably through my website, which is goal imagery.com G O A L as in goal. Right. We talked about it at the beginning of the podcast, goldimagery.com and you will see the contact form there that and just please write where you heard me and how you know of me and you'll be able to, you know, I'll be able, we'll be able to actually get a appointment meeting booked and I'll be very happy to answer questions and to talk about whatever it is that.

We talk about in terms of, for myself, the you can, the saying is, you can't fix yesterday, you can only create tomorrow. We touched on that a lot today. I'd love to connect with you. Davidavidgoldsmith.com and Instagram is Mr. David Goldsmith. You can connect to me on Twitter at David Goldsmith. There's LinkedIn, there's Facebook, there's all different ways that you could find me. And that said, I'm David Goldsmith and thank you for listening.