The Future of Humanity Is In The Rediscovery of Our Purpose with Matthew Bailey #12

Hello, everybody. This is David Goldsmith, and welcome to another edition of Redefining Tomorrow. It's a program where we explore different ways of redefining the future, taking a look at topics that may redefine how we live on this planet, how we redefine our existence. We cover all sorts of different categories, which, if you've listened to some of the podcasts, you have heard that. So one of the quotes that I've lived by since I've been a young boy is, you can't fix yesterday. You can only create tomorrow. And today we're going to be redefining tomorrow while we talk about the topic. The future of humanity depends on the rediscovering its purpose. And we have Matthew Bailey here today. How are you, Matthew?

Great. You can call me Natalie or Matthew. I don't mind.

I'll call you Natalie for the rest of the program. I think that would probably be a great way to thank you. I think I said rati, but if I call you Natalie, that's going to be interesting. One of the things that I like, that I love about Matthew is his background has a lot of similarities to mine in certain categories. Concentration in artificial intelligence. He's looked at AI and ethics. I remember doing a program in Hong Kong where we talked about AI and ethics and from a different part of the world to hear different perspectives is amazing. Having lived there for 10 years, IoT smart cities and the conversations we've had have gone into different rabbit holes, which I think are amazing. So I'm hoping that as you're listening today, you're going to hear some really amazing discoveries or rediscovery that can change your future. I'm assuming, Matthew, you have some bullet points for us to cover today. Can you please give them to me?

Yes, David. The first bullet point is humanity is an integral part of the universe. Integral.

Part of the universe. Next.

The universe always strives to seek balance and expansion, so strives to create. Create balances.

Balance and expansion.

Expansion.

Next.

Well, let me just finish that up. And so does humanity.

So I have to write a paragraph for a title. Okay.

Next. The universe is a creative intelligence, and so is the human experience.

And so is the human experience. Next.

The future of humanity depends on knowing its purpose as part of the universe.

For those of you who are listening in for the first time, I actually don't know anything. We create a topic, a discussion topic, and then I know nothing. So I'm actually writing down these points, and during a typical interview, I have seven to 14 pages of notes. So that's why I asked for the outline. So let's. Matthew, let's go to humanity. Is you take me, number one.

Well, the first thing to say, David, is we may get to the answer of 42, which means he was right. Right. We might get there. Okay. Humanity is an integral part of the universe. So let's start off with the first point. The first point is, is that quantum mechanics is how the universe is made up and exists from.

Okay, yes, I agree.

Okay, great. The next thing is, therefore, atoms, molecules, everything must be made up of quantum energy.

Okay.

Yeah. The third point is humanity, therefore, as part of the universe, must be made up of quantum energy.

Okay. Just a logical progression we're starting with is quantum mechanics is. Therefore we're made of, therefore humanity must be.

Yes.

Got it.

Right. So those are the first three points. There's a fourth point here, which is to kind of emphasize this and bring it to reality and meaning. Is that because humanity feels, or us humans feel connected to other quantum aspects of the universe. You know, things like looking at a beautiful sunset. Why does that make us feel special or give us a sense of calm? It's that sense of connectivity, connectedness to other aspects of the quantum intelligence or quantum energy.

Are you saying that just looking at something. It is a. Is a quantum theoretical connection, therefore it creates calm?

Yes, kind of.

But it can also create fear.

Yeah, exactly. This is a great question. So let's look at the polarity of positive feelings. So when you look at a sunset and, you know, we've all looked at them and felt a sense of calm, when, you know, when we've seen a beautiful sunset, we get a sense of calm. And the question is, why is that? It's because I suspect there is a quantum. Not intact. We might be entanglement, but a quantum type of connection that we're feeling to other aspects of the quantum expression, which may. Which is the sun, in this case, between humans and sun. Right. Why do we enjoy a particular classical piece of music? Because that quantum expression of harmonics and frequency is resonating with our own quantum mechanics, mechanic makeup. So my point here is this, is that the human experience already knows at a profound level, whether unconscious or conscious, that there is a sense of connectivity to other. You've.

You've made a lot of assumptions.

I know. Yeah.

I mean. I mean, you just like, like, okay, I understand your hypothesis. Quantum mechanics all the way down. And now you're saying we look, we. But it's very easy to jump and say, yes, but we don't all See them equally as positive. We all don't connect to the same type. And that the experience within them. I'm going to be morbid here.

Good.

Someone could watch someone be killed and think it's an amazing experience to see that happen. Other people could look at that and say, that is the most horrific thing. I'll never be the same and never be the same. You've used the sunset as one example. But then we have to use every sight situation that we are in as humans in that same collective analogy, correct?

Yes, we must do. So you're talking about the diversity between polarity, the polarity of good, evil, the polarity of yin yang, male, female, positive, negative. You're talking about polarity. And therefore the universal expression of quantum energy within that polarity will have many instances of degrees of separation from each extreme of polarity. Does that make sense?

Yes. So now it's almost like we're touching on a philosophical, religious. Because you used good and evil. That's why you've defined the universe instead of polarities and positive and negative as good and evil. I wouldn't want to be the. I wouldn't want to be the negative then. But negative in this, in the. In the position of quantum mechanics is not bad. It just is.

Yeah, that's right. So.

So, okay, thank you. So.

It'S all about perspective, right? It's about. And that goes out belief systems, doesn't it? It goes to our personal bias, it goes to our ethics and our moral values. Right. So the perspective dictates the interpretation. Would you agree with that?

Yes, that's kind of. That is kind of my point, but not my point. But yes, I would believe that your perspective, whether it be where you were born, what gender you are, what race you are, what position, what your family was like, the political governance you strived under, the sacrifices or experiences or enjoyment you have to your life, all of that determines each one of those.

That's right. So the universe is based on a polarity paradigm. Republican Democrats, we could use that paradigm if you so wish. But.

So what are independents then? Did you just say Republican Democrats?

Polarity as we perceive it in this observation, in this reality. But the independence are a different expression within that polarity that is neither positive or negative, but sits in the middle potentially. Okay. And that's their purpose is not to be dragged into polarity for actually to be in the middle of that polarity. And so that is the whole point of the universe itself is that polarity is a way of expressing different instances of itself. And expressions of itself and experiences of itself of which the human is probably, we know at the moment, the highest form of that expression. To understand, if you like to actually experience, if you like.

I personally would like to. When I think of positive and negative in the polarity conditions that exist, I like to think of, I like to think in a three dimensional 360 degree condition more than I like to believe there's a left and a right or a plus and a minus or good and evil. It's. I've been having this conversation recently, maybe this helps. Is the arguments around the world about is authoritarian good, is it bad, is it dictatorship or fascism, which way we swinging? And there are many countries, not just the United States, who are having this type of challenge of where they position. So I've asked individuals in different parts of the world if they have a family. I'll say, do you have family? And they say, yeah. And I said, how do you run your household? And they said, what do you mean? I said, you talk about you loving democracy. Do you run a democracy in your household? They said, what do you mean you have two children? When they were 2 years old and 4 and 6, did they have an equal say with you and your wife? Well, no, no, of course they didn't. I said, so then how do you run your. Oh, I guess I'm kind of like a dictator, authoritarian. I said, you could be a monarchy. And then you make decisions. And then I said, okay, what do you do for a living? And let's make it simple. You own a business, do you run your business like a democracy? Well, I mean seriously, does everybody have equal vote? Well, no, no, of course not, David. What do you mean of course not? If it's democracy, that's it. So how do you run it? I guess it's another one, I'm an authority. And I said, okay, so let's talk about your community. And I, and I bring them through all these stages and I say so so let me tell you, you want to live like a democracy, but nowhere in your life do you experience it right? So when you're singing what you're saying and positive and negative, my point is, is that I think there's so many variations of them going in a three dimensional space that to go from end to end is difficult for me to go middle to end or is difficult, but to say that there's combinations of billions of possibilities is more acceptable.

Yeah, And I really like that. I like the power of three. Right. If we look at linear between polarities, then it's A flat looks, feels like a flat two dimensional paradigm and both polarities are seeking energy. In fact, the Republicans are seeking energy and so are the Democrats, actually, if you fundamentally look at it. But the third dimension actually opens us up from a kind of a linear two dimension into a third dimension, which you talked about. In fact, I was listening to someone yesterday that was speaking about the trinity of quantum energy. And that's a fascinating concept. You know, within an atom, obviously there's quarks and sub quarks, but most people understand there's electrons, protons and neutrons. Right. There's a, there's a three, there's a power of three operation in that harmony and balance of a particular aspect of the fundamentals of an atom. So, you know, I like the three, three way of thinking, David. I think it has a purpose. I think it's got expansion to it, and I think that's a great thing to consider.

So I kind of feel like I've either followed you completely or I lost you completely. So, yeah, I'm on my, I'm on my second page of notes and I'm still trying to say, okay, so you're doing well. We'll get up to 42. The. I understand. So humanity is an integral part of the. Yes, I understand it's an integral part of the universe. And it's a infinitesimally small to the degree of nothingness, that a piece of dust on Earth is bigger than our contribution on Earth to the universe.

What do you mean by that?

Well, if you were to take a grain of sand, a dust on planet Earth, and you drop it, and that grain of sand is bigger to the. Is, Is bigger than the Earth's entire contribution to the universe.

Are you saying that it's got less space?

Yeah, it's less space. It's tiny. It's. It's fractional, fractional, fractional. That piece of dust. We are even smaller than that when you look at the grand scheme of the entire universe.

Yeah, I don't debate that. And, but nevertheless, everything has quantum energy. Fundamental.

Yeah, but you're, you almost made it sound like that humans were a large contributor of this or because we're an integral part. Yes, we are an integral part. We are smaller than that grain of sand part.

Right. And. But as far as we understand in terms of the expression of the quantum energy in intelligence, as far as we know. Right. I mean, there's, there's probably life elsewhere in the universe. It's boring if it wasn't. Quite frankly.

I always joke the Only difference is that their knees crick backwards instead of forwards.

Well, there's one of the quotes that Einstein said which is great, which he says two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe. And I find that great quote from Einstein. He's a very playful fellow, a patent clerk who didn't go to MIT or Cambridge University, but actually helped us to understand the universe in a profound way. I wonder how he would have been accepted in society today as a patent clerk and not a big Silicon Valley wealthy individual. So the whole point of this is, David, is to understand that we're effectively made up of universal energy, what we call quantum energy, and therefore we are naturally integrated as part of that expression of, of itself.

Yes. And if you, if I took that from one extreme to the other, you've proven that that theorem to say, yes, we are the. I still have the challenge to know that because you use the example of the sun. When you look at the sun, you're relaxed. If I look at a tree, I'm relaxed. But if I look at some things that other people look at, I'm not relaxed. So I don't think that that's where I kind of got lost is there's that correlation that it's one to one.

Yes. So I'm glad you said that. So as part of the universe, it's very destructive. Right. The Big Bang wasn't a come by our experience. Right. It was a category. I mean we can't imagine what it was like. Maybe one day we can travel back in time and see it. But you know, but theoretically we couldn't.

Because it was too small when it started for us to be there.

Unless we become quantum beings and evolve, David can move through the quantum universe.

That's true. So that's true. Sorry, I didn't take that jump with.

Sorry. So your point is very important, is that the polarity of perception of something that is not a positive feeling is actually just as important as the positive, because it is. So. So a black hole isn't exactly potentially loving, is it? It sucks everything in and crushes it. Right. That could be seen as a negative experience or a star blowing up. You know, it destroys everything literally within its gravitational wave. So, you know, or affects it as it kind of calms out, you know, a bit like a pebble in the, in the pond. So the destructive part you talked about is just as important as if you like the ecstatic part.

And yes, from, from an Earth perspective, if you're looking from through A telescope and you see a star blowing up, there will be people who will be. Oh, my God. That's the most amazing thing I've ever seen. I'm glad in my lifetime I saw one.

So planet right next to that star, then you're not probably feeling the same.

No, there's. Again, that's a perspective. So, yes, I do get it and I would probably. Maybe I can help rephrase this. Is that they. The quantum energy, or a human quantum existence has a connection to the rest of the universe on a. Maybe it's wrong word, subatomic, but on a level that we can't ever feel or explain just because it is of the same making. On the level of energy, electrons, neutrons, quarks. So that's what I would say is that it's. It's like a human. A human doesn't think of themselves made of water.

No. Right.

But yet we just. We move a lot of water around every time we walk and do something.

And you know what's. Really. By the way, I'm good with your definition. I like the clarification. I think it's. It's wonderful and thank you for that. But you know, David, there's been scientific experiences, has that if you play classical music towards a kind of a glass of water and freeze it, it kind of comes up with all these beautiful geometric patterns. But if you play like Ozzy Osbourne, it kind of goes in a different direction.

Really, It'll. It'll end up with a different harmonic structure.

Yes, that's right. Yeah, I've seen all the. Yeah, so.

And then again, perception of positive and negative or the perception of good, bad or evil does not exist. It is a human creation. So Ozzy Osbourne is a sound. Classical music is a sound. And whatever is created is just another part of the universe.

Yes, that's right. The frequencies are. Harmonics resonate in a particular way. Correct. So my point is this, David, is that it's worth thinking about. What kind of sounds do we have in our life that may affect our water in our body? And that's something that is, I think, a curious question to ask.

That's actually an excellent question. I'm laughing right now. Sometimes you wake up in the morning and you say what type of discussion I'm going to have today. And I did not expect this. So I like that. Do you play something different because of this in your house?

Yes, yes. Before this, I was listening to some classical music. I forget the piece and then I was listening to some. You might find This a bit weird, but a bit of Gregorian throat chanting.

No, I'm not gonna judge you at all. I going to send this recording to a psychotherapist and have them connect with you.

Before that I was listening to Journey. So there we are.

Okay, so if. Yeah, and the. To some people, to some individuals, that Ozzy Osbourne is relaxing.

Absolutely.

And to listen to classical would be like fingers on it on a chalkboard. And the fact that it creates a different structure, harmonic structure within the. In water does not mean that it's negative, it just means that it is.

Yes, yes, David.

And I wonder, you can answer this. How. How does our. How does the human being mind determine. This is an interesting one. It's in my head, it's racing. How does it determine what it likes? Or maybe the positive harmonic structure of the water in that human's DNA is predicated or leaning towards that type of sound, which gives it the positive orientation.

Oh, this is a fabulous question because, I mean, we can get anchored to control manipulation and all sorts, but let's just be playful.

Okay, well, yeah, they're gonna come for a straight jacket for me when we're done, but don't worry about that.

Anyway, so. So your question is, how do I make a decision? Well, let me ask you a question. Do we make decisions solely based on our brain or other intelligences we ask, we access, such as your intuition, such as your feeling and sensory body, such as your gut feeling. Let's discuss that for a moment. Is how do we make decisions? Is it just the brain or is it other intelligences that. That are part of that decision matrix?

Okay, so let's turn that back. Question. If we were to take the human body, we're making the human configuration into an entity, and yet if you were a white blood cell or a red blood cell or a mitochondrion, to you, we don't exist. So therefore the intelligence or the quantum state or the quantum being of the creation of the white blood cell or the. Or any component of the. Is in itself its own entity, its own own being, if we want to use it in a wrong word, but.

The right context, and I love that. And in fact, you've just confirmed the first point, which is this. The mitochondrion or the red, red or white blood cell could be seen as the human within a large universe. Right. Universe for them. So yes, David, absolutely, that makes sense. And so if quantum energy is at the fundamentals of everything, then what resonance, what frequencies, what harmonics, what octaves kind of create the different Experiences the positive or negative or of choice, David. And I mean, I'm not a quantum mechanic guru, so I can't answer that question really. But, you know, does the quantum field, can it be trained or can it dictate how we do make these decisions?

Could we could even take another jump. Could cancer or any type of disease be a form of. Of cells or components or whatever mechanisms in our body at odds with one another just because their quantum makeup, their quantum mechanical orientation put them both in the same body and therefore they're fighting with each other all the time?

That's perfectly plausible. And that's perfectly plausible, isn't it? And yeah, go ahead.

Yes, it is. I'm going to have to wrap my head so it doesn't explode.

Is how do we make a decision? That was your question.

Yeah.

And I kind of shared with you is that I think that we have or we should consider that how we make decisions is based not just on the brain, but other forms of intelligence that are integrated in the body. And you know, that red blood cell or that mitochondria might act in a particular way that influences the feeling, sensation or influences part of the decision matrix in which we hold in this quantum, if you like, computing experience in which humans exist.

So we can take the theoretical jump that be. We talk about the five senses, but there's about 17 senses. There's more than touch, feel, sense, there's smell. There are multiple different variations of all of them and others. And I can't think of them right now. I apologize. I don't even want to look them up. But there's if any one day I've got to look them up again. There are so many different types of senses. But what you're trying to describe is that we can then take. Let's use that white blood cell. That white blood cell might have seven different senses. In the white blood cell, knowing that there's receptor sensors, one that says I've been notified. So they don't get a phone call, they don't hear it in their ear. But a chemical positions itself on the white blood cell and says there is an infection in this part of the body. Take these paths and go fix it. So that is another sensor that.

Yeah.

Does that make sense?

It does make sense. That's exactly what it's exactly. We see. We are a bunch of organic distributed computing systems and. Or distributed intelligence systems. So there's intelligence that you just talked about. That's kind of the fundamentals that make up the human body. But then the liver has Its own distributed intelligence, doesn't it? As part of functioning as a whole. The brain has its own intelligence as the heart, the muscles, and so on and so on. So we are a bunch of distributed computing intelligences, if you like. In the organic body that is found, they're no longer separated, but they've found a harmony in order for the entire organic system to have an experience collectively.

So I did. I did look it up because I wanted to have it. In our conversation just. They said there's 21 different senses. Then there's another one that says 33. But you've got, for example, hot and cold. Or sweet. Sweet, salt, sour, bitter. Then there are smell, there are 2,000 receptor types. Pain, there's cutaceous, cutaneous, somatic and visceral balance, rotational acceleration, linear acceleration, kinesthesis, muscle strength. So there's a lot. Full stomach. Okay, so, yeah, so then we're more or less saying. So you're bringing it down to the quantum component part.

Yeah, everything's made up of quantum energy. And therefore. Or quantum and. Or quantum intelligence, maybe. And yes, that is expressing itself in, if you like, greater instances of itself. The makeup of the molecules that make up the components that make up kind of, you know, the blood cells, then the liver and then the lungs and all that kind of thing. Everything is based on quantum.

Okay, I. I cannot disagree with that. I still have to get my mind around the good and evil or my mind around the sunset, and I should unlock from that. But the sunset one kind of took me because immediately I had the opposite feeling. So you just have to live with it. I have flaws.

No, that's not a flaw. That's actually perfect because there is no imperfection in the experience of quantum energy.

So because it's just quantum energy.

It's just quantum energy. I mean, who are we to understand, I mean, the ethics and belief systems of what right and wrong is? Obviously, within democratic nations, there will be probably a common understanding at a general level, but personally, we'll have different understandings of what justice or wittiness, friendliness or ambition or greatness of soul is. If we move to more of the. If you like, autocratic and more of the kind of the communist regimes, well, they might have a different view as well, of those different.

They definitely do. I've lived in Hong Kong for 10 years in China, and there's definitely a different propensity for what is considered right and wrong. So if the future of humanity is to be able to understand this, we.

Need the second point.

Okay, you know what? It's going to cause, like. Because this is not. This is a conversation that would be challenging. It's challenging enough yet that would be challenging for a lot of individuals because we've made so many theoretical jumps. We've connected so many pieces from your experience and my experience that are challenging in and of itself to make it so that it's a ubiquitous understanding from humankind.

That's right. But we're working in the intuition field, not the logic field. And therefore, that is interesting. I think. I think, you know, logic is great, and of course it has its place, but actually we're working in the intuition field and the creative field, which is really quite quantum.

Okay, so are we on to number two? Is that what you're saying?

Yeah, we're getting there now. Okay, so we're going to bring it all down. Right. We started at kind of fundamental philosophy, fundamentally large.

Go ahead.

Because this is why there is a logic to this, actually. Okay. So the second point is the universe always strikes to seek balance, and it's continually expanding, and therefore, so does humanity. So we've laid this baseline. Whether people accept it or not is up to them. But basically that the universe is made of quantum energy and so is humanity, by the nature of logic. So let's look at how the universe tries to seek balance. Well, gravity creates balance, doesn't it? It creates balance between galaxies. It creates balance within solar systems. We see balance between the Earth, moon and sun. Trinity paradigm. Okay. And by the way, Trinity is very interesting there because you brought up three earlier. So we know that the universe is always trying to seek balance, and yet, David, you and I and our audience are on a spaceship flying through the Milky Way, which is itself moving through the cosmos. Right. Yes. We have balance on the Earth. We're actually expanding as part of the expansion. Right. That the universe is expressing itself in. Can we agree on those?

I would. The gravity or the. That the universe is creating balance? I have a. I'd lead to. I want to go further, the expansion. I completely agree. I know that we can use trajectories to be able to know that the planets and the galaxies are spreading further and further away. I'm still. I'm one of those people who still says, okay, we started from nothing. We're in nothing. We expand into something, into nothing at an unbelievable pace. But there is no boundary. And there. And yet we talk about this as if we really know what we're talking about. Because mentally, it's just too overwhelming to understand that there are billions and billions and billions of Galaxies expanding into billions and billions of billions of miles, kilometers of space. That doesn't exist.

That's right. And that's our perception. Right.

So that was like a. That was like a message from above. You are absolutely correct. Just go with that. Fly with that a little bit more.

Well, we are flying with it as we're on this spaceship anyway, as Carl Sagan would say. So there is balance that's been sought as the expansion is happening. Right. With the galaxies, the solar systems, Earth, moon and sun. That is something that we believe is factual. It appears to be scientifically proven and is widely accepted. Right.

So, yeah, I just, I'm. We seek balance. If we take that assumption, we have to. It has to be ubiquitously accepted everywhere and it. Every position. The question for me, is balance the right word?

Well, okay, so let me ask you a question. Where. Where do you perceive unbalance? And I will prove to you through argument that actually it's seeking balance.

Well, I. The word balance is a tough one for me because you prefer harmony. I don't even know that's what. I don't know what I prefer. My mind goes to a speck of dust on. Or a regolith on the moon, or it goes to a small creature that, like, not a gnats, but like a mole that's living under the ground. I mean, I went to two extremes.

You like equilibrium?

I don't. I don't know.

Okay.

I don't know because I'm. I'm having trouble searching my mind to say, is it seeking that. I had someone recently, Stephen Wolf, say he believes that the world is going towards. Is ever expanding, but the other word he was using was complexity. That the universe is going. Is ever expanding and going to complexity, and it's all. And we're going more and more to complexity. No matter where you go. No matter. And so his philosophy, his thought, his consciousness was that. And in your case, you're giving me balance. And I'm. I had a little trouble with the complexity, and I have a little trouble with the word balance.

Okay, so. All right, well, let me give you a couple of questions, a couple of thoughts. So first of all, is the human organic system, your human body is imbalanced, is it not? Yeah.

I would probably argue with searching for balance because the foods that we eat in the United States with GMOs and the way in which we live is unbalanced.

It is. You're absolutely right. And that will come to my last point, actually. Okay, so this is important. So I want to help Kind of us to discover together a phrase that you feel comfortable with. So I've used gravity as a universal force that does create, if you like. I've used the word balance. It's a connective force that kind of brings equilibrium between solar bodies at a macro and a micro level. So I'm trying to discover with you what you prefer me to use.

Yeah, I just, my mind took a jump to religion or philosophy or beliefs. Are we creating balance or are we trying to justify imbalances at times?

That's a great. I love this. And this is great. So now it comes down to perspective, doesn't it? And it goes back to your polarity discussion. Is that when I talked about sunsets and classical music, other types of polarity views. And so therefore it comes down to perspective. So can we rephrase this to say, in my perspective, the universe is always striving to seek balance and it's always expanding?

From my perspective, yes, because those definitions you're able to quantify and qualify in your perspective, it becomes your definition.

Yeah, okay, I would agree with that. Okay. And we agree on the Earth being a spaceship, from my perspective, flying to the Milky Way.

No, no, that one. I would agree that the Earth is flying and it is flying in the Milky Way and it is flying at an expansion rate from the center of the Big Bang. Assuming because we are making a statement when we say we all know, because that's also we all know that we started from the Big Bang. Okay. I have not seen a video.

Although I have met Professor Stephen Hawking. So does that make me qualified?

Does that rub off?

Yeah, of course it does, actually, and I'll share, I'll share briefly with you is that I met him on summer's day and we spent a little bit of time together. And I'm not kidding you, David, when I looked into his eyes, I don't know what it was, but it was like looking into the universe itself, the universe intelligence of the universe. And I'll never forget that look of joy and celebration and deep, profound intellect in his eyes. It was incredible, absolutely incredible.

So I'm going to keep my head down when I look at you when I see meet you in person, because you're going to say, oh my God, there's nothing there.

But the same came with Sir David Attenborough, but in a very different way. With David, it was very much around this compassionate feeling around him that was very different, but the same kind of profound intellect. And you know, Stephen portrayed it through his eyes. And Sir David attenborough portrayed it just through. Just a field around him.

Do you. Would you say you're the type of person who sees energy around people? Or do you call yourself an empath to some degree? Or do you have a definition of yourself that defines you differently than when you share with people intimately?

Psychic.

Psychic, okay. And can you share with me what psychic means to you? What does it do? What do you have?

There's a couple of things that it enables me to do. First of all, it comes with great responsibility and stewardship and very high ethics. And so from time to time, I work with people on personal development. They seek me out and we work together in helping them to break free of limited belief systems and. And to understand that there's a deeper meaning and destiny for their individuality and start to understand their place in this universal experiment and the potential of who they are and what they can access. My intuition is something that is very strong and has helped me to lead at least two global revolutions in technology or be part of it anyway. The Internet thing, the smart cities, and now AI. So the intuition has helped me to take me on paths where, you know, sometimes, David, we make these choices and we think, well, I know that was right, but why the hell did I choose that? And then three or four years down the line, it's like, I'm glad I made that decision.

So when we think of. When I think of psychic, I think of being able to foresee the future. Being able to see. See things. I wouldn't say see things inside of somebody, because that's not psychic. That might be more. Empath. Empathic.

Yeah.

So do you. Do you have to meet. I know a person who says when. All they have to do is shake a person's hand and they can see their future in a matter of seconds.

Yeah. So operate differently. And first of all is that everything has to be permission based. So you have to.

I give you permission.

There we go. I'm not going to say to your life, well, I could, but I'm not going to. Why? My purpose is to see the destiny of humanity and to offer guidance through my life purpose, which is what I'm doing with artificial intelligence now to actually create a. What I believe is a better reality is. Better is the wrong word. A more exciting and thrilling reality that advances humanity from the prison it's locked in at the moment, which is the shackles of the belief systems we have at the moment and the inequities we have in society. So what I do is that I'm able to see A path where if we do X, Y and Z logically, then it results in this kind of outcome that is helps us to leap beyond into something exciting and thrilling and to propel ourselves forward into the future in balance and also excitement. I don't believe in utopia. I think that's really boring. Who'd want to be in utopia? We love the universe is a creative force. Right. And we naturally have that within us. So my personal ability, which I've never declared in public before, is that I'm able to tap to understand a particular reality and see what needs to be put in place and then kind of, kind of start discussing it, putting things in place and to see how other quantum energies come around that kind of thought process or that particular kind of description of reality and then allow the quantum kind of community around the world to come together and then build it. I've done this twice so far, so.

So and I want to know what the twice are. Are you a belief, faith religious, any of those categories? Was this given? Do you see this as given to you? Do you see this is just. And I'm going to give a few because you can choose. Is this something where someone, where you say you were destined, it was part of being reborn. Do you have any of those type of beliefs?

No, I don't. I believe in sovereignty of the individual.

So. So you were born as an individual, you didn't come back in a second life. It's not a religious capability. It is a biological or an energy capability. And it is your. One of your unique talents. Like people say superhuman or whatever, but it's one of your talents or capabilities where others have others capabilities and you're using it in this way. Is that a good way to say it?

Yeah. And I also believe this is that people have awakenings, don't they? Joseph Campbell talks about it. The great US philosopher talks about the hero's journey or the mystic's journey. And lots of people talk about awakening throughout time, whether you go through to Confucius or you get to the Vedic or whatever you go and into Christianity or whatever it may be. Right. So my belief is this. And this is a belief, Right. So it doesn't mean it's right.

Yeah, and I'm just trying to get to know because you're, you're really stepping on a lot when you, in many of the comments you've made already, you've. You have to have come from someplace to believe that.

Yes, thank you David, for asking. So my view is this, is that I believe in the eternal Soul or the eternal spirit. And I think that people have come here for an experience and understanding why we're here for that experience is important and that's part of the awakening. Now some people could say that spiritual or religious, to be honest, I don't care. It's about the individual being fully themselves in order to thrive in their human experience, no matter what is.

I sometimes ask was, I have my own thoughts on some of these types of belief structures is do we as humans make these self deterministic constructs for ourselves so that we can fulfill that because we have no evidence or we cannot disprove that. It didn't just, it wasn't just fabricated for the purposes of giving ourselves something.

Yeah.

And I'm not picking on you. Please don't take it at all that way. It's just a real comment.

It's a great comment. I think that what I'm understanding is. I think, and you might need to rephrase this question, David, is that. Let me ask you a question. What's the point of human existence?

I've had a bunch of these conversations recently, which is really surprising, that they've been bombarding me. And I don't mean just. I'm saying this has come up a lot with me recently and I have not brought it up. You and I didn't bring up this. I didn't bring up this conversation. You did. So it's been by other people bringing it up. And I don't. I'd love to say that human existence has a purpose, but I have no real evidence that human existence is as important as humans believe it to be. I have no evidence that says that the thoughts we have are coming from ourselves as part of our DNA or coming from something else. But we do have evidence that the human mind is very creative. And what we're. What I think what's happening is the human mind is creating its own purpose. But I'm not sure. I'm not sure if we have a purpose.

Okay, so we've already discussed the or we're debating at the moment that the universe has some kind of purpose. Whether it's just mechanical or it's quantum or it's intellectual, or whether it's some kind of benevolent being, who knows? But it does have a purpose in its searching, say, for balance and its expansion. Right? There is some kind of purpose there. Okay, now the question is, what is your purpose here? And this is what I would propose. I would propose that everybody has an eternal essence to themselves and the human experience is part of the playground for them to experience and to learn lessons and to also serve. And so for me, I believe in this argument that's the wrong thing.

No, no, I know what you're saying, because I've had to use that word and it doesn't mean argument. It's a figurative word for a discussion and a hypothesis that's being proven.

Yes. So, I mean, first of all, is that I don't believe, first of all, Elon Musk has these kind of abilities to see realities, and lots of other people do. Right? That's how Einstein saw all this. So did Nikolas Tesla. So, you know, I'm just a guy, right, that happens to have chosen his truth. And that's what I do. So my I will propose to you is that how do you feel about. About this idea that you are an eternal soul, an eternal essence, an eternal spirit, whatever language you feel like, and that you've chosen to come here in this earth experience as a human form, to experience something, to learn something, maybe, and also to serve, maybe. And so how do you feel about that potential proposition?

I would have questions very quickly such as, where was I before that I would be able to make this decision? And what was I doing on that experiential level that I even had a choice to come to this one. It's like picking do I want to go to Disneyland or do I want to go to Ibiza? You're making choices. So you've come for this, as you've said, chosen experience in this form. If you were to ask me a different question, such as, david, do you get up every morning doing something that you don't know why you do it, but you continually do it, and does it have a greater purpose? I would say absolutely every freaking day. And it drives me crazy that I do it. Are you predetermined? Are you destined? And I've also had individuals say to me, david, you are predetermined. Not in the sense of, David, you're predetermined to do something. But I know who you are better than you do. And like, what do you mean?

Like how.

This is crazy. No, my intuition, my skill, like you've mentioned yours, is that I can see inside of somebody and you are destined to be X. And it scares me because I don't see myself that way at all. And I'm actually asking, to be fair, I'm asking myself, why today, why in this moment in time, am I having so many conversations around this one topic that I'm not starting the last interview. I just had for the age of infinite was this conversation in a whole different way. And I didn't know what he was going to talk about either, which I told you I thought he was going to talk about governance. So I'm asking myself, is the universe and just being completely transparent here? We're always selectively transparent. We don't express everything. It's impossible. But I'm asking myself why I'm sitting here. Am I being told a message that the project we're working on, Project Moon Hut, and the foundation and seven years of work and teams around the world working. Is this another message for me? And I'm asking myself that. And it's freaky, a little bit freaking me out, like, this is not supposed to be happening.

Okay, so let me maybe offer one or two things.

Am I drawing it to me? Is that what it is?

So the answer is, yeah, of course. So the reason why people, you know, you say, am I crazy? That's a reasonable thing to ask. But that definition itself is come from programming and belief systems that are there to shackle you up from the truth of who you truly are. And so I believe personally that there's an intelligence field around you that is offering an invitation to you, David. There's no control, no manipulation, just an invitation that is saying, you know, just a little nudge and say, you know your purpose here, David, and you've got this moon hunt thing going on. Have a feel into it in a quiet moment and see what instruction emerges from within you.

I've had it since I've been about 18 years old. I saw today when I was 18 years old.

That's a beautiful gift, David.

I mean, I've, I've, I've seen it. I know what. I know these things. Do I lean into it? Yes. But I also don't. I, I do resist. So, yeah, I can understand what you're saying. It's. And what you're doing is saying, let go of the humanistic behaviors, which is to put yourself in this and say you're not and pull back. I don't know if I'd like that person.

Well, you don't know. So awakening is all. And I'm not saying you're not awake. And maybe that's a terrible paradigm to use.

It's a very challenging word, I think, overall, because then we're assuming that animals are. Can't be awake and they could be awake and you know, all right, so.

Let me choose a different one. So this kind of playful experience that's been, you're being invited into whenever I get invited into those experiences, then sometimes it is, how do I test it? And I test it in curiosity and joy. And so if. If I feel curiosity and joy, then it's definite. Yes. And I'm going to explore it. If I feel fear, then I look at it from two perspectives that are outside of me and say, one, is the fear guiding me, the polarity of negativity potentially guiding me to protect me, or is the fear offering me to grow and to choose something that is better for me in the long term? And so am I being asked to, as Joseph Campbell talks about, step into a new hero's journey? And, you know, that's the way I play in this space, David. And I don't know whether that helps.

No, no, it's. It's. If you think about the construct of this type of interview, which I've got to believe after 190 interviews, and I think it's 190 people who have said they've never experienced anything like this, in this way that most interviews are not run this style, is that I'm actually, every time I turn on the mic to do a podcast, I am stepping into an unknown.

And how courageous is that? And it's an invitation to different aspects of yourself, to communicate with yourself, because maybe you're asking a question.

Yeah, that's someone. When I'm working with individuals in different capacities, doesn't matter what the role is. And I. I will ask them, well, what have you been learning? What have you been reading? What have you been doing? Oh, you know, I do a little this, I do a little that. And one of the things I've said for years is I've done 2,800 interviews that are private, something like that. And I've done 190 podcasts, and they are an hour or two of some of the brightest people on the planet who are willing to spend their time and teach me something. So if I do 50 to 100 interviews in a year, I'm getting 50 to 150, 100 to 300 hours of education from extremely bright people who see the world differently than I do. And I relish in that. So is there a fear? I think I. I'm looking at what you're talking about, and I'm still trying to make that connection to the human being itself and asking myself, okay, we. We can create. We can create these paradigms in our own mind, and we can share them with one another, and we can start to believe that they're all right and that these are truths. But we also could find out that none of these are truths.

Yes. So we test everything. And I test everything. I test everything. Anybody I work with, I say you test anything that I say. And anything that you choose, you must test for your own truth, because that's important. That's about sovereignty. This is all about sovereignty and becoming. If we go back to the original question, you know, rediscovering our purpose, is it that we're becoming, David, something different in the human experience? You've talked about intuition, you've spoken about, you know, kind of taps on the shoulder from lots of serendipity in your life. You know, why don't we teach intuition or activate intuition within society? And is this a human gift or a human kind of intelligence that is wanting to come into the foray of the center of our humanity and our social systems?

So why don't we, in your opinion?

Oh, we're not going down.

Yeah, we are.

All right, then, if you want to go. Well. Well, I have to be.

Yeah. Because it's a big. It's a big point. You just made a huge point. Why don't we teach this? And I have my answers. I'd love to hear yours.

Okay. So I think it's a number of things, and it's very complicated, but in essence, first of all, there's all these different conspiracy theories that are going around. And to be honest, I don't really care about. What I really care about is the individual thriving, no matter which culture or which social demographic they are.

Okay.

Gender. Right. I'm all about thriving. Now. What I personally believe is that humanity has come to the end of the industrial mindset thinking. I think the industrial mindset has done its deed. And so what we're seeing is the last throws of the industrial mindset, which is about kind of putting in rigid processes around education in order for you to then go to university or become a worker and you have a family, you have your home, you pay your taxes, then you die. Right?

Yeah.

I think it's all changing now. I'm not promoting anarchy in any way because these structures are very important. In fact, later in the document, I talk about how these are important for our balance on humankind. But I personally believe that these old industrial mindsets are kind of coming to an end. And we're starting to understand. How does Elon get inspired to go to Marples? How does he get inspired to keep on pushing through hyperloop? How did Democritus into. You know, I think it's two. It was many Many years ago in ancient Greece, discover the atom. I mean, you know, this guy didn't have an electronic electron Magnus. Right. You know, how did the Mayans understand the way the solar system worked beyond anybody else? How do we make these steps forward? Right. How did we do that? And it's because something was inviting us to expand and to become something more interesting than what we were told. And I think that's where we're at, though.

You think we're being. We're being brought to this point?

Yeah, absolutely, I think so.

That means you believe in a higher being.

I believe that. Well, let me ask a question. Why do you think there is a high being?

No, the way you said it is you. We were brought to this point. That means something else. Has to have a grand plan, to use a more earthly word, or it's a phrase.

Why can't it just be a.

Well, why does it have to. If we're being brought to this point, where the humankind. Because there are. I don't even know the number to say how many planets, moons, there are in the. In the universe that we're looking at this one space, this one rock that we have been brought to this point, now that we are coming to what you're saying, this awakening. And I look around and either you believe that we have to go through chaos to get to awakening, or.

The universe goes through chaos to get to balance and expansion.

I was in. I was in. I was at a. Let's just call it a party. Wasn't a party, but it was a party. It was an outdoor event at a grand opening of a place of a friend of mine. We were on the beach. It was nice time. And this woman and I are talking philosophically, and she says, the world is awakening, and she does all these things. And I said, well, I had this experience. I'm thinking this way. And she said, david, see, that's what happens. You get the chakra in the center and you feel it down the core. And you've done this and you've done that, and that's how you become awakened. And I looked at her and I said, doesn't work for me.

No, it doesn't. There's not one way to awaken for goodness.

And she said, David, I've studied 10,000 hours of this. I mean, I've worked around the world and I know. I said, I don't feel. I can't feel my heart. Like, I can't feel it pounding right now. I don't feel with my heart. I feel my chest Might get tight, it might be loose, but I'm not really feeling my heart, the actual heart. And I feel with my, the. My arms and the tops of my legs, when things go right and things are working, I can actually right my. Now I can feel my arms are tingling. That's where I feel. And she said, no, no, David, it's got to be. And I said to her, when everybody thinks the same way of the same thing, to some degree, it means to me that you drank the same Kool Aid. But it doesn't mean you're right because I'm standing in front of you telling you it's not. So how do you explain that? Yeah, and her awakening was. I was wrong.

Well, that. Well, that doesn't help you at all, does it? Right. So, yeah, this is the problem, you see, this right and wrong rubbish that we have. And there's overall truths that we have to put into, like the governance of law, the governance of health care and other things. There's certain governance we have to put in as a framework for humans to exist together and for them to collectively, hopefully all benefit. Although there's lots of inequities, so those kind of frameworks make sense. But when it comes down to personal truth, that's a personal choice, and that should come down to your sovereignty. So how you waken up, David, is down to you. Whether it's a Road to Damascus experience or whether it's simply. You simply all of a sudden get something.

Does waking up to you mean that humans are. It's. There's no word for it better. It's not the word I want. Some people believe that killing an animal is just perfectly fine, doesn't make a difference. And other people believe that's one of the most horrific things you can do. What is awakening, then?

Well, I didn't expect us to get onto this. So I would say it's becoming fully you. And where you're liberated into a feeling of expansion and where you feel celebration and joy within you, that creates a harmony. Now, I'm not saying it's about utopia, I got that.

But there's 7.5 billion people on this planet. You talked about your. I'm going to say, use the word mission. Again, it's not the right word for this conversation, but it's the easiest one that comes to mind. If this is your purpose, to help, enlighten, to bring. How do you do that with 7.5 billion people?

Ah, right. Well, I'm not going to give it. Well, well, yes, I've kind of Got that answer?

You do have the answer?

Oh yeah, but I'm not going to give on this. It's too private. Sorry, David.

Okay. No, that's okay. It's an interesting, it's a good question.

Then let me, let me, let me play. I think that if we can put people at rest more in their lives, you know, the digital world is very hustling and bustly, isn't it? You know, we've got all these different digital services, David. We're for our banking or for our healthcare or for our amusement, no matter what it is. You know, we're kind of tied up in this digital world at the moment with this pandemic, right. And you know, we're always trying to rush around, trying to do this and do that. If we can get the digital world to, to be managed on our behalf in a nurturing and protective way for individuals, then that will give us more time and make our lives run more smoothly. At which point then we're more at rest. And if we're at rest, then we're looking at a kind of a new well being for humanity. And that well being is so important. We've got what you say, say 7.5 billion people on the planet. We're not in balance with the environment. There's, you know, we have to do that if we're to provide a global foundation for the next generation and those that don't inherit our legacy that we've done at the moment. And that's just natural as part of the industrial revolution. So I think that how do we put people more at rest in their lives so that they can kind of find a place of rediscovery of who they are, how they feel, what do they love, what they passionate about, how do they want to enjoy life, whether it's walking the dog or whether it's cooking a good meal or whether it's just being with friends, it doesn't really matter. I think putting humanity at rest, I'm not talking about peace, I'm not talking about utopia.

I understand.

But what I'm talking about is how do we make lives less stressful so that the digital world is actually supporting that rest within us. And if we can achieve that, then we're looking at humanity itself coming into a place of having more of an internal expansion, more of an internal space because they're in rest to consider. Who are they? And this is what I believe the purpose of artificial intelligence is.

I don't think I've asked this. I'm assuming you're a Brit?

Yes.

Okay. That was not an insult. That was just a definition. You've now lived in another country, living in the United States. So living in multiple countries gives much different perspectives, and working in multiple countries gives even greater perspective. So when I. My 40 or 50 countries that I've worked in, not just spoken and spoken is one thing, that's when you show up, you fly in, you go to a nice hotel, you go to the major restaurants, and then you leave. We're actually working in a. Bangladesh, Cambodia, Malaysia, Singapore, South Africa, around the world, Colombia. When you see the amount of people who are not driven by the digital world, they're driven by even today's times, they're driven by an existence world, and they're driven by forces that are so large that even if we calmed one part, I'm not sure that the rest.

Well, okay, so let's talk about this. So I think what you're talking about is. I don't think you're talking about a digital divide, but I think you're talking about. Well, maybe you are.

No, I was not. I was not. I was just talking about the usage of the devices and the technology to do the things that they do. So, no, I was not talking about the divide because that's a whole different structural point. It's that working In Bangladesh, there's 15,000 employees in the company or 20 or 30, some of the companies I've worked with, and they go to work, they do their work, they go home. They're trying to make an existence. So I would say that out of the. I think the numbers are. You can check these. These are not quotable. Is that out of the 7.5 billion, 3.5 billion live under US$3 a day, and about 500,000 to a billion. 500 million to a billion live almost similar to the way they might have lived a few thousand years ago.

Yeah, so. Yeah, so. And 1 billion people live in rural communities. Right. And we forget about rural communities. We're happy to take their agriculture, we're happy to take their, you know, go and visit, but we don't, you know, you know, we don't honor them in equity and ethical morals. I've lived in India and well spent time in India for three months and in Mumbai and the festival of Ganesh was going on. David, you and I are very similar. I think we want to get involved in the local culture. If they invite us in and we want to celebrate with them, we want to be part of their human experience and say, hey, listen, I'm honoring You. But can I play with you? Because it looks really good fun. And I've also lived in France as well and worked in France as well. And so the touching other cultures I think is so important because how many people live isolated lives? Look, when I was a child, my mom and dad would give me money, I'd get on the bus and I'd go to school. Now you have to get in the car and your parents drive you to school. They track you everywhere, right? Where did that fear come from when we were younger? It didn't happen.

I think it's amazing that you're tracking everything. And my parents had no clue where I was. They walk outside on the David, time for dinner, and that's when you knew.

It was time to eat, right? Well, the thing is that Europe went through, really experienced World War II in a catastrophic way. And I believe that community is something that still exists, whereas other places in the world were remote and didn't really feel the drastic effect of World War II. Look, I was born. No, actually, that's not true. My mother was born during a World War II bombing raid. She physically was given birth during a bombing raid.

Okay, not good harmonics.

However, I'm lucky to be here because of my mother's choice to do it. And, you know, I'm very blessed. So my point is this, is that we have to understand that the world has been in catastrophe during that time. People fought to give their lives. My grandfather Jiggy, my grandfather Fred, who fought with Montgomery, was a sergeant major, and my Uncle Bob and Fred, and you know, we fought for this piece and that's important. But I think that. Kind of remembrance, David, is still prominence within, although we are losing it within the UK and Europe. We remember, we don't want to go back to those hardships. Whereas other parts of the world that have this privileged mindset have not been touched by the extreme poverty. Now, I'm not saying they haven't had their own struggles, for goodness sake, because every country has as part of the natural evolution, advancement. There's always polarity that forces chaos and then they advance. Right now, I hope that doesn't happen. By the way, I'm all about peace. So. But. So my point is this is that I think people have forgotten the true meaning of humanity and community, David. And it's about, you know, there's lots of religious leaders, if we're going to go into religious, even philosophy leaders that talk about love your neighbor hasn't Covid proven to us that we have to see every single person in Society, one person's ill affects the whole society. So we have to nurture the individual. So surely the path forward is about community. Surely the path forward.

We are not. Covid has proven that we are worse than worse. We don't love our neighbors anymore because of COVID People are not more considerate around the world because of COVID People are not. I ask people constantly when they say, that's a race reset. And I said, okay, do you love your sister more than you did before? Your mother, your neighbors, your friends? You're treating them differently. Well, no, but I mean, we're rethinking. I said, you haven't changed.

So this is the. Now, this is a great point. And this is why. Okay, first of all, Covid is a terrible tragedy. It's forcing us into transition, isn't it? Isn't it forcing us into a new balance as we discover how to function in this new normal and for economies and private lives and business and all the kind of things to work right. Haven't we recognized that our food growing, particularly in America, is out of balance because people don't have resilient immune systems? Haven't we recognized that there is so much our mental health has been damaged by this Covid thing that, you know, there are new systems that need to be put in place I think in order for us to advance in the new normal.

I completely agree with you. Yet I will push back on this. And I've said this so many times. So if I talk to you before about this.

Yeah.

We are in this year, 2,100 years from the Spanish flu. So we can even go back to the bubonic plague. There were 400 million people on the planet. 200 million people died. That was really a reset.

Okay.

If you want to use those terms. They probably realize there's challenges. But I go to the Spanish flu and the Spanish flu had there were one third of the world's population was impacted. That's 500 million people. Today we have 7.5. The equivalent would be to have the same impact as the Spanish flu would be 2.5 billion people impacted by the flu or infected, but they lost 50 million to 100 million people. Equivalent today, numbers would be 250 million to 500 million people have to die to die to equal the Spanish flu. It lasted for two years. It actually finished, and it took about three years to go back to normal. And people hugged and kissed and picked up a spouse or someone at a club and brought them home. They did all of these touching and feeling all Came back again. And from 2000, 1923 to today, we really don't have any behavioral relics from that timeframe. They probably said this is a new normal, it's a new reset. This is how we have to get along. We have to agree with people. They probably said the same things, they fought the same way, and we were no better off.

Agreed. So. Right, so let's speak to this. First of all, is that in my experience. So as part of the COVID you know, I've spent a lot of time in the mountains working on this new initiative.

That's like, vague.

Yeah, well, mentioned the book. So I just mentioned the book. There we are.

Okay. Yeah. You've been working on a new book. Okay, good.

Anyway, so one of the things that I've done is that is help deliver food to older people in the mountains that didn't feel comfortable coming into the grocery stores amongst people. And that's something that I was, you know, I'll probably get told off for this, but there was, you know, I know one of my friends put something on Facebook that worked in a local grocery store. And she was feeling the isolation in such a profound way. I was concerned about her life. So when I walked into the grocery store, I basically, I kept the mask on, of course, and I went up and I gave her a big hug and she cried because someone saw her. Now, you know, this is compassion. And I think compassion is something we need to remember. Now listen, if we look, what did Roosevelt do after World War II to heal the soul of America? He invested, was it 10 or 15% of GDP into the arts for America to rediscover itself? And so I believe, David, that we're talking about how do we re remember the events that you spoke about in the past? We should learn from history. If we don't, then we're idiots. And how do we bring the soul and compassion back into the heart of society so that we don't forget the important things of this human experience?

So the redefining of tomorrow is in your. In what you just said is to find. Discover another part of our humanity that is based upon a. An energetic understanding of the connectivity to the universe.

You know, what would society look like? David, here's a question for you. If greatness of soul or magnanimity was more important than how much money you had in the bank, what would society look like?

It would be a completely different world.

Now, we're not talking about Kumbaya here, right? Just don't believe in Kampalaba. I do believe in Peace and harmony and people thriving. But, you know, could we say what do you think that Elon Musk is showing magnanimity of soul and greatness of soul with his ventures into electric vehicles and his ventures into space? Is that showing greatness of soul?

I probably would not define it as that. I would call it for him. I know people who know him and Project Moon Hut was based in. Was founded in NASA Ames in Silicon Valley and the team there knows him and I. And I've kind of averted meeting certain people on, on purpose and not because of bad or good. I just want. There are certain timings that I think are important. And one of the challenges is I believe he has a propensity for innovation. I don't believe he's a. An emotionally connected type individual. And so I think he's driven by another one of the same things that we all have that we talk about is this belief that we have this intention and purpose.

So he. So. Yes, so. Well, Elon, I believe is, and we've been nominated for awards, is that I think as an incredible individual showing ambition and the desire to expand.

Yes, that I would agree if you were to define it that way. I thought you were going down the compassionate route and the world's being, you know, ego out of it. I mean, just because he just said yesterday we would be five times more valuable in five years than we are today or whatever. So that, that to me is. Has a little bit of ego to it. So that's why I was separating those two points. Okay, I would agree with you. Yes, he is expansion. He is ambition. Absolutely. There's. That's a definite characteristic behavior that he has.

Okay. So he looks at the macro, which is the outward from the planet, but he also looks at the micro, which is the AI stuff. Right. I'm going to sit down with him at some stage and we're going to have a chat about this because I think what he's doing at Neuralink is, is interesting and I think there's a deeper conversation about our humanity. But let me give you.

So I'm going to say when you make, when you have that meeting, I need to be there. Okay, we'll leave it at that.

It's coming. I know it is.

No, I would like to have the meeting on another sense because I want to share with you also Project Moon Hut because I think once you see it, you will probably feel a connectivity to it also. So that's why I said it.

Oh, yeah, of course. Thank you. Now, if we look at Mother Teresa who literally put herself in danger and put herself in kind of lack of self care. But to allow the expression of her compassion or magnanimity of soul, how much positive impact did she have? She had tremendous amount of impact. And so the question is that look at Gandhi. You know, you and I talk about the math, those are hierarchy needs about being a false path paradigm, which it is. Gandhi, once he chose to support the independence of India, lived in poverty nearly all his life. Now he showed magnimity of soul and by God he was probably self actualized.

But he was also. Yeah, he was just for clarity for people. I didn't have that conversation. The Maslow hierarchy of needs that we all follow was developed by Maslow. It was then interpreted by an American who made it into the triangle. Then he did not, Maslow did not believe in the triangle but he started getting calls for business so he could make money. And more or less Maslow's hierarchy of needs says in order for you to be self actualized, you have to get to the top. And there are poor people, as you've just said. Getting back to our conversation is that someone like Gandhi didn't have to be. You don't get self actualized. You could be poor and be self actualized. And that just a clarity for that one point. So yes, I absolutely.

If we touch on religion, but let's not stay on it. If we can look at, we can look at Jesus, we could look at Moses, we could look at Muhammad, we can look at Buddha, all of these people. I think, and I may be wrong here, David, I know that Muhammad was wealthy but chose poverty. All these people lived in poverty. But yes, were self actualized individuals and there's many like this.

And at the same time we needed the egotistical maniacs who created things beyond imagination because they believe that they were.

Yes, right.

And that's the other extreme. There is a value. You probably had this David or Matthew, you, Natalie, you can't be like that to get to where you want to go and you walk away saying, yeah, but how did I get in front of you? I got in front of you because I had the gall to ask you something that no one else would ask you. So there's no answer that is universal.

Well, I agree and as I said, I just don't believe in the messianic idea. What I do believe is about all of us in community. I'm about the community and the sovereignty. But to go to that point, David, is that I set an intent in my intuition field. So basically Here's a little bit the psychic stuff. So when I ventured out on this kind of, this journey on artificial intelligence, knowing. Knowing very well that it was going to be. There was going to be some, some very tough battles ahead. And also knowing how to kind of do this because I've done it before, is my, my intuition field guided me to say this is what you need next in order to advance your purpose. Right. And so I say my intuition feed field for some podcasts. And then out of the blue, you and I have never, you know, this is probably our third, second or third conversation. We haven't each other long and yet out of the blue this came. And other podcasts have come out of the blue using the intuition now.

So what you're saying, just to clarity, you. You set a mental framework to put out into the universe that you were looking for, is the way what you just said, correct?

Yes, that's right.

Okay. I just want to make sure. Because you, you said your mental something and I didn't know. So you meditate, I'm assuming, or you.

Yeah, we can call it meditation. Yes.

Okay.

And it's kind of listening to your own intelligence. It's not listening to it. My intelligence. Listen to your.

You're using energy as a means by which to project a magnetic field that pulls in to you what you're looking for. The power of positive thinking type.

Yes, it's time.

But it's, it's not the same. But I'm just using it as an analogy.

Yes, David, that's a great analogy. Yes, that's right. So what that means. So if we play with this. My God, I just don't going to be interesting what people think of this.

Well, it's just you and I. Don't worry, no one will ever hear this. Tell me, I want to hear because I'm so interested.

So what's really fascinating here, Dave, is actually this is an affirmation of yourself and an affirmation of myself. So have you not on this call had another tap on the shoulder through our conversation? Now that is me having some kind of awareness of alignment to your kind of calling or ask at the moment, and vice versa. You've done the same to me. So there, I mean, there is a kind of, kind of an entanglement or some kind of intelligence, whether it's quantum or whatever, I don't really care. There is some kind of attractor state that is bringing us together for common purpose and common benefit.

So if we, let's, let's take a jump here. It is that if we were to. Let's take everything. Assumptiveness that we were brought together because of the entanglement that you and I had been looking for. And we ended up connecting. Yet it's the resonance and the equilibrium that exists between. Between the both of us that are going through this digital line. We are not talking to one another. We are having vibrations go through cables and satellite or whatever is involved in this connection. And you're hearing it and interpreting another way. So our connectivity is actually happening on a vibration level that is audible.

Yes, David, it's manifest.

I completely understand. And I don't know how to say that I've. I can. When I was younger. Very quick story. My father came home one day and he had gone to learn about hypnosis. So he stands the three children up and he says, okay, we're gonna try this on. You and my sister can do something. My other sister could do something. But I held out at what, 12 years old or 14. I held a 10 or 15 pound weight straight out for like an incredible amount of time. My father was amazed. So he. My eyes were closed and he gave me a lemon and I didn't taste it. And then at one point. He's a dentist. He was a dentist. He passed away not long ago. So. And that not. It just happened. He got 89 years old and he put a needle through my hand and I didn't feel it because I have the ability to numb my body and have surgery done on me without feeling anything. And those types. I know that's a scary thing to say out loud too. Is. And I've had surgery done. My father would do surgery on me and I've done things where I didn't. I just completely don't even feel what's going on. So that ability. Still I jumped to the 7.5 billion people and there's. I read something of yours that said. Or even the comments you've made about church changing humanity. I don't believe we're going into this fourth industrial revolution, which is Iot and connected devices, because that to me is nothing. We already are connected. We could just get more and more. I believe we're edging into the age of infinite, infinite possibilities and infinite resources using space and the resources that in a much larger sphere called Mirth, Moon and Earth, that we could change hope and possibilities for all species on Earth. That is our narrative. All species on Earth, we can change that narrative. And while we're working on a lot of activities, when I hear you saying is I'M still trying to connect. I can't get my mom to think, you know, I can't get some of my friends. We have conversations. How do you. How do you get 7.5 billion people to jump on this rediscovery of purpose?

So. Well, the first of all is that I talked about sovereignty a lot.

Yes, I know.

And as I say, that is not about anarchy in any way. It's just about people having a great experience, that's all. It doesn't mean they don't contribute to society because they're part of a greater whole.

Yeah, yeah, just a sovereignty. You're talking about the individual's ability to be the individual.

Yes. So I've already revealed that I believe that artificial intelligence can put people at rest and also solve a lot of the problems we have around the Paris Climate Accord with environmental AI, Which I reveal, and lots of other aspects that can bring automation into society. But at the very core of the artificial intelligence is the understanding of our humanity, our principles, our values, our personal culture, our personal macro cultures. So it operates, if you like, in ethical alignment with the humans in which it's partnering with. Okay, right. Just having that advancement in terms of the lightning speed, automation and adaptability of our systems to either catastrophic or other types of events brings rest because we have more automation doing the heavy lifting for us. Right. So that in itself will bring a benefit. Now, that is for if you like developed economies. When we look at emerging economies, and I don't like the word developed economies because it's full of ego.

It is. And even the word industrialized, some of the happiest people on the planet I've met are in mountaintops in the middle of Spain. They move their sheep around and they're happier than the people who have the Ferraris.

Right, exactly. So, yeah, I mean, that is. I mean, that's another discussion, isn't it? Yes. So which is what Japanese. Which is what the Japanese do, by the way. Happiness is the metric for how technology is doing in society. The people are happy. Then that's great. However, I think we need to go deeper because happiness is just a veneer of the underlying ethics and belief systems. So it could be a form of consciousness, but that's somewhat different. So how do we get the other economies that may be technology, different, should we say, David? Okay, so if we look at the unit you're aware of in Kenya, M Pesa, the banking using.

Yeah, the M? Pesa, the first. Yeah, my partner, my South African company was involved in that.

Well, so was I. I was at Segentia. Who wrote the actual back end systems for it?

Jay Van Zael.

Segencia. No.

Do you know the guy's name is Jay Van Zael? South African quantum is computational social science, artificial intelligence, machine learning, predictive analytics and all of that. And so he's one of the 100 Computational Social Sciences in the world. So he.

Oh lovely. I didn't get to meet him. We were working with Vodafone.

Okay. Yeah, the Vodafone was the other part too. Yes, he shares that story.

Yeah. Okay. So they use the mobile phone. They bypassed kind of the edge compute will happen. You've seen the big announcements in Senegal with this big digital city by their music star. Can't remember his name.

Yeah, I know what you're talking about.

That. Yes. Right. So we will see these other societies change their technology footprint and advance beyond what we see in the. In western block.

Just for once I'm going to pop out just in terms of context for those of you who are listening. The M Pesa and the whole transformation of the digital currency world was that they were finding that people in Africa, in order to have a savings or bank account had to travel a day or two's worth of time to get to a place to be able to deposit cash. And that took away from the livelihood, which was dangerous and everything that went along with it. So they came up with the ability to use their mobile phone. And this way people can be instead of unbanked, they can be banked. And that was the value contribution is that why do you have to travel two days or a day to be able to put money in the bank? So therefore you didn't take money the same way. And here you could open up your mobile phone and there existed a bank account that now people could be banked and they can have a telephone or have a credit history or be able to purchase, which they couldn't have done otherwise because of the existing system. Hope I said that right very quickly.

You did. So it's effective. It's access so they could go to the local grocery store. You've hit the nail on the head. And one of the other benefits is that, you know, there were stories of men kind of getting their wages at the end of the week, spending it all on drinking and then go home.

So this way was deposited in the bank, but they actually had to do some data analysis to figure out why people weren't doing certain things. And it came down to distance and time and it was, it was, it was unproductive. So Vodafone and, and the banking structure gave people capabilities and they became the largest, I believe, bank in all of Africa. On the continent of Africa.

Absolutely.

That's why I jumped out for a minute, because that's a whole story. So getting back to solving this.

Right, right. Okay. So if we look at those kind of countries, they have a different technology infrastructure that's primarily mobile phone driven, right. So there's still things that this, that AI can do in terms of automation around the mobile phone, their existing ICT infrastructure which may move to the edge or may not move to the edge, doesn't matter. There's still things we can do to improve things, right? Yes. So it might just be, say the newest water source is actually in that direction, so you don't have to walk eight hours in the wrong direction. Although it's a good time for the women to have a good gossip because traditionally, and I'm not being sexist here.

No, you're not.

Collect the water. Right. So there's advantage we can do there. But what do we do with the rural communities? These 1 billion people that do have agricultural machinery, that do have maybe smart homes, but primarily are unconnected. And so the question is, why should we even change anything if they're already at peace and harmony are the things.

That we should do because we like to screw things up. We like to export our beliefs in film or in radio or in marketing material, whatever. We like to export what we believe is our happiness, but we haven't found that.

Right. So, you know, and as the, and I believe as part of an awakened mindset in the general population is actually a maturity and a growing up, actually I think it's understanding that greed is an old paradigm and doesn't work anymore. And actually everybody wins and everybody does. Well, I'm not talking about communism in any way, but what I'm saying is there's another way, I think, where we value the planet and the environment and we start doing well in our cities and around our nations, which naturally benefits these rural communities so they don't get mudslides or devastating weather that for their crops. You know, I think there's things we can do as part of a collective kind of global population. David. So those are just a few things, I mean, you know, apart from, you know, God, I don't know. You believe in aliens? You think aliens will save us? I think we have to save ourselves, don't we?

I, I have a timeline in my head that I've used because of sea level water rise and I, as Project Moon Hut. We do talk about things such as we working on plastics. And while plastics are dangerous, I always say to individuals, okay, you have a cup with some plastic and you have a cup with Clorox in it. Which one are you going to drink from? Of course I'm not going to drink the Clorox. I'm going to drink the plastics. I said, well, we dump as America. There are other countries too, but I have the data on America. We dump about 12 billion gallons of municipality municipal waste into the oceans every day. 12 billion. That's 300 million bathtubs, 600,000 swimming pools. That's not agricultural waste, industrial waste, radioactive waste, mining waste and other waste. That's just municipal waste. And considering we're 330 million people, Europe is 400 and let's say 40 million people. So they probably have similar. And if we use India and China and just those four is 50 billion, 60 billion gallons every day gets dumped into the oceans. And so if we add the rest of the world, we're going to poison the ocean before we're going to have plastic issues. And we have to really rethink a lot. And so when I look at AI, I think there's possibilities. So getting back, because I want to make sure we're on point three. The universe is creating intelligent society and the humanoid experience. Does, does that help us to get there? I mean, we're good. Are we going to solve it in your eyes? Because I have my solutions. Are we going to solve it with finding purpose? Do you think we'll do that fast enough with 7.5 billion people, enough of us enough? I'm saying hopefully I'll be one of those people finding that.

And I'm convinced you will. And I'm looking forward to seeing you on stage. There's a Nobel Peace Prize winner at some stage. So look at it.

I've been in my home for 10 months. My dog, my dog, I think I said this to you. My dog looks at me and says, I thought I was the dog in the family. You never leave the property. I don't know. So I'm not even counting those, those chickens before they hatch.

Okay, so I'm going to do a couple of quotes before we do this. First of all is that Einstein talked about creativity is intelligence having. And this is responding to your question, how do we enable the future? How do we create a global foundation for 7.5 billion people and their generations to move forward and to move beyond the legacies that you just spoke about? Right? Well, we could, according To Elon Musk, he says the future of humanity depends on us merging with machines, which I disagree with to a certain extent because I define merging differently.

It depends on your definition of it because a lot of people are already partially machine. If you have a filling in your tooth, you are alive because of a technology that exists in the filling of your tooth.

Well, yeah, so I personally believe is going to come. And in fact, actually I don't believe it. I know it's coming.

Okay, we're going to merge or we're going to do something different.

We're going to have a personalized AI sovereignty, nurture our well being and our self actualization, but will never invade us. It's like a digital buddy or a digital assistant, or a digital butler, or a digital friend that actually walks with you in life. I think that's where we're going to go.

Implanted or side by side based upon a Skynet or something?

No, no Skynet. What I'm working on will literally prevent Skynet from ever to happen.

So I'm seriously. Is someone going to walk side by side with us or it's going to be digitally a part of us or will be on us?

No. So it will be around you, but not. So it'll be in your home, in your car, in your office. It'll follow you as you drive or travel. It's kind of a digital assistant traveling through the digital world.

Okay, so it's almost like having your own personal bubble.

Yes.

That travels with you wherever you go. And therefore it can sense your temperature, it can understand some of your thoughts, understands your mannerisms, can. Can do predictive analytics on your. What you need and what you don't need, what would be valuable for you, what. Not what food you should eat, medical, whatever. Correct.

It's about being your life partner in a collaborative, sovereign way. Okay.

Can you turn it off when you're having sex so that there's not four partners in the room?

Well, if you're French, you probably want as many as you want.

That's true. I was not gonna go there. And you actually did it.

If we didn't do that.

Yeah, that was perfect.

So we're looking at the 7.5 billion people kind of getting back to us. So I don't believe we'll become cyborgs. Although I think some of the advancements Elon's doing are absolutely genius. About helping people to walk and about helping people to see and become more mobile and participate. I think that makes really good sense. So if we look at the Philosopher Sadhguru, one of the famous philosophers in India, he talks about a conscious planet without caste, religion, gender or race. Now, I think we should, should honor our religion, our gender or race. We don't become meaningless automatons with the same values. That would be boring, wouldn't it? So how do we get 7.5 billion people into this global foundation that's ethical based as a platform of not only just equity, but a platform of opportunity and to be at rest, to be in their own creative process? Right. And so the question is, first of all, are we fighting against universal laws? Well, the answer is no, because we've already said about balance is important for the universe, so is expansion. Right? And so this is about a foundation of balance in order for us to expand. So we're not fighting against universal laws. So the question is, how do we do that? Well, well, we've kind of tapped on it. It's part technology. I think AI will really make a serious transition. But I believe that AI will force us, David, to come to the transparency of what are our own ethical virtues. Governing our businesses, governing the academia, governing our governments in our communities, in our tribes or whatever, and actually starting to be transparent. How do we define humanity? What is our humanity? And then ensuring that AI follows with that. So I think it's part technology, I think it's part systems change, which we've talked about in terms of cop agreement. And then also it's partly around as we create impact in one part of the world, it's going to benefit the other part of the world. And if the brilliant community is the sheep herders that are having fun or they're gonna. I think it's on TikTok or Twitter, goat dancing to be.

Oh, no, I haven't seen the goat dancing. But you've seen the goat massages, right? You've seen the mini goat massages?

No, I have not.

Oh, you have to look them up. The goats baby. I don't know if there's a term for baby goat, so please don't kick me for this one. But I think it was called baby goat. It would. It rubs on your back. Like they walk on your back and they're like massages.

Oh, my goodness.

People have these. So you go to a place and maybe you do yoga or something, and while you're doing it, the goats jump on your back and they walk all over you and people love it.

Oh, this is. I saw this in the Netflix series Lucifer. I didn't know it's true or not.

Yeah, no, they actually do these are. There are places that offer this as a service. You can go and get goat walked on.

That's hilarious.

Yes, it is. I think it's kind of cool.

Yeah, I think that's really fun. I mean, it's like swimming with dolphins. If you've ever swam with dolphins, then it kind of changes you, Right?

Yes.

So the question is, is the future of humanity dependent on rediscovery? The purpose. And the answer is yes. It's about understanding the universal laws of balance and harmony, both personally, in our families, in our community, in our cities, in our nations, in our global community. I believe that is the way to understand that.

Yeah. And I, I would say yes.

And I'm trying to get away with blue murder here by making lots of leaps. David.

Yeah, I, I, Yeah, I'm, You're. I would say that if. I would love to believe that people are good. And that comes down to questions. They come out good. Are they born good? Is the culture good yet? I'm reading underneath the Wall Street Journal comments. I'm reading underneath the YouTube comments. I'm reading under the narratives of the stories that are happening. And not just America. Americans are focused on America. But you could see this in Britain. You could see this with the Irish. You could see this with the challenges that are being impacted through Russia or for China. There's a lot going on and there's just a lot of anger. There's a lot of. I would say the Americans tend to be more, as a whole, this is a broad brush. Sorry. They tend to be more involved in conspiracy theories than other places around the world. I don't hear the same type of thinking. But yet in other parts of the world have challenges too. And there's a guy by the name of Kevin Warwick, back in like 2000 something, he put a chip into his body. He was the first, first person to ever do it. And he turned on and off his lights and things like that. But he ended up before he put it in his forearm and before he took it out, they put the chip in it did this thing. Before he took it out, he, they opened it up because he wanted to connect to his wife. And they put us a helmet on with all sensors on it. And when they opened it up, the first discovery was that the nerves had integrated into the chips. And it was shocking because it had done this. It's like, how did this. It integrated which we're talking electrical pulses. The second thing is when he put it on and his wife felt something, he could feel too. And when he Felt something she could feel too.

Yeah, that's beautiful.

Through. Yeah. And you just said not become Borgs. Well, he was trying to become a cyborg. And there are people out there trying to become cyborgs today.

Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And it's all part of the experience, expression of becoming and expanding. And some people see that through deep integration with technology. Other people see it as more of a. The curiosity. There's so much more to discover around the human experience and the human makeup, the quantum energy makeup, that we shouldn't invade that but explore it more. There's all sorts of different thoughts and neither are right or wrong. It's just natural as part of our advancement to test different realities and see what works and what doesn't work. The question is, if one becomes more predominant, that defies the sovereignty of another, then we have to consider the ethics of that. But, you know, of course, people explore. And why wouldn't they? I personally don't. I'm more about technology working to support the sovereignty and actualization of the individual and having a great time without invading them. But others firmly believe, David, as you've indicated there, that they want to be integrated with technology. You know, there's guys out of Silicon Valley that want to working on connecting our mind to the Internet. And I'm saying, well, first of all, your brain operates a thousand times faster than any supercomputer, even quantum computer right now. And your brain can store the World Wide Web many, many, many times over. Why would you even restrict it by connecting to the Internet? What's the point? What. You know. And so I think there's all sorts of ethics that are going to come up. And I believe David, and I'd love to hear your views on this, is that is ethics now a global conversation for a major step in technology that's going to be predominant through society.

And in the beginning, I said I was on stage. I had this. I had three a. I had two AI specialists in Hong Kong that we brought. I spoke three times. First one group in three weeks, we brought on some experts in AI and we talked about AI and ethics. That was the whole component or piece of it. And at one point she says, oh, David, we won't do anything like that because we've all signed a pledge that we won't. And I said to her, she's an expert in AI, and I said, you're kidding me, right? And she said, no, no, we signed a pledge that we're not going to do things that are harmful to people. And I was very Kind. But I think the whole audience saw my body shake as almost like licking sour. Something extremely sour. Like, how can you be so naive that the conversation of ethics is so individualistic, it is so culturally specific, it is so geographically constrained, it is so educationally redefined. I mean, I can, I could do 10 of those that for one religiously constructed, there's, there's morals and ethics are not a universal belief structure. So the. Even if you have the conversation, and this is not to pick on the Chinese, the Chinese are doing their own thing. But the Chinese delivered or tried to deliver a human baby using genetic engineering, which everybody says we're not going to do. There's someone always going to do something that could be. I'm going to say terrible is a bad word. I think there are people right now who are using genetic engineering to try to bring back a dinosaur. I think they just recently were announcing that they were really working hard on this. Do you really think bringing back a dinosaur is a good idea?

Well, I mean, the UK have done Dolly the Sheep, didn't they?

Yeah. So how do we. So do I think it's a good idea? Yeah. But do I think people are listening? No.

Yeah. So this goes to the heart, I think, of humanity actually understand creating a platform for its purpose, having transparency. And again, you know, you told me not to kind of promote anything, so I'm not.

You can mention something. It's just that I've had. When you hear podcasts, you'll hear people say, in my book. In my book. In my book. And the point is we're on the interview, we're talking. Tell me. You don't have to tell me, it's in the book. But if you say I'm writing about this construct or something, that's fine.

So I'm writing and give the answers on how we create this ethical foundation in transparency at a national level and a business level. And it's that global ethical platform of transparency. And I, you know, provide frameworks on how to build the ethical future of AI and for humanity. That ethical framework is so important, David, because look at what happened in some of these sci fi movies, right? Someone, somewhere, some hacker basically does something and effectively Skynet emerges and oh my God, we're all kind of, you know, stuffed or would build an AI that basically thinks it's better for humanity to become cyborgs or something, Right?

Yeah.

So the question is, how do we steward this? And so I think that personally, with AI, I think that nations need to have digital barriers and digital citizenships for all AI that comes into their territory. Otherwise they're being invaded by AI that doesn't align with their ethics or belief systems or even their bias.

So we create. We create a digital Persona, a digital identity for every AI that's created. So they become like. They become an entity.

That's exactly right. It's a digital citizen test. And I think we have to do that because otherwise, I mean, we don't. I just don't believe in conspiracy theories, but otherwise we get to the point where maybe a democratic nation assigned a big deal, one of the tech giants, and recognized that because they've had lots of migration from a particular culture, from a particular landscape, that the AI doesn't understand their personal ethics, their personal values, their gender, or, I mean, you know, or even, you know, their color. Right. If that's one of the things that we should do or race. And so, you know, we really have to mature here in our ethics.

Yeah, but they're not. But yes, I agree. However, when I look at the 212 sovereign nations and countries, whatever, in the world, and you take so many of them are not even involved in the AI discussion because they're. Well, because. But it's being defined by another group of individuals who are laying the groundwork for the structure for tomorrow. So the question is, is this AI going to be imposing on this or is there a contribution from this group? And the way the world has actually been working, it's the. We're going to impose this on you.

Right. So you've hit the nail on the head. So this is exactly what I explained, is how do we bypass this? How do we put a hard stop and reassess and create a foundation in which we can advance. Right. And so the work that the guys have done in AI, you know, Alan Turing, who invented the Enigma machine, was part of this, and some great scientists from the US and around the world, you know, an AI has advanced so much with, you know, beating the champion of Go. The AlphaGo.

Yeah, the AlphaGo. And then, and then, then DeepMind beating AlphaGo in 100. 100 to 0. 100 to 0. So 4 is a. 4 to 1 was DeepMind. I mean, yeah. And then Alpha AlphaGo was 4 to 1. And then DeepMind, what, beat AlphaGo 100 to 0 in, like, months. That's it.

Yeah, exactly. So did the AI have compassion for the way he felt the champion? Did it have any kind of benevolent experience? No, it's a done technology, and that's okay. So the groundwork around AI, you know, AI is being used to detect cancer earlier, breast cancer early in healthcare systems. That's great. Have AIs in our car, in our self driving. Well, it will come in self driving part driving cars. But you know, it's kind of protecting us from going into a lane or basically crashing to someone or you know, emergency braking. Right. It's got, it's starting to penetrate society. Alexa is a form of AI. Right.

But why, why don't we fix. Why don't we fix the beginning? We're fixing cancer at the end, right? We're fixing cancer at the end. Why doesn't it tell us you can't eat that food? You. I mean, I think if an intelligent entity, let's call it just use the word entity for this. If they walk down an aisle in a grocery store today and they knew all the products that were in each one, all the ingredients in each one, we probably have to walk out empty handed.

Right? You've hit the nail on the head. And that's why personalized AI is so important. And how do we train personalized AI? We? Well, data is the very fundamentals that trains AI. At the moment. The data world is unethical. It is complete. I think it's harvesting of our personal information.

You think, you think? I know.

So that's why I designed a new set of ethical Turing ethical tests using Turing models. So it's basically 32 dimensional model to certify the classification of the data that goes into AI. So if someone turns up to, I don't know, the UK or to Germany or whatever it may be, Kenya, and say this is our AI, and the Kenyan government said, well, this is the certification level you have to pass. If they don't reach that medal award, that certification award, they're not allowed in the damn country until they reach that award. So we have to get our ethics in our data sorted first because that's then going to create ethically AI. Right now to do that we have to bring the population into the conversation. If you want to get hold of these data sets permission based, then you have to bring the people into the conversation so they know how their data's being given. They're willing to give their data sets because they're seeing the transparency behind it. And so you've got the people behind AI not living in fear, right, because you've got new data governance and the AI is being measured on the data quality of Epicorus.

I'm looking at timelines in my head. That's what's popping into my head because we had Cambridge analytica that did exactly 32. Well, they did. I don't know how many elections around the world were impacted by poor use or I would say a terrible use of data to influence. And remember I had a partner who's computational social science. So for those who don't understand what that is, is social science is the understanding of behavior between two people or groups so you'd understand what influences them. And it's using social science tied with artificial intelligence to be able to then to move them. And it could be positive or negative. So we could theoretically get you to buy from a different grocery store or different gas station based upon when we send you the coupon, what type of car you drove, what day of the week it was, how often do you filled up with petrol or gasoline. You could do so many things. It's scary what we can do just by having a few data points. But the American system, what the Trump administration used, and this is not anti Trump, it's just data. The Trump organization had 3,200 data points on Americans. So if we know, getting back to our conversation, how do you control that, Matthew? I mean, I know you're making this law up, this rule up, but we're talking, I mean, is this 20 years in the future from now? Are we going to have it next week? How do you get 7.5 billion people on board?

Right, so this is what you do and. Okay, okay, this, okay, I need to be carefully. This is what I believe we can do.

Okay, I want to hear. I'm really, I'm all ears.

Right. So when can it happen? I talk about world 1.0, 2.0 and 3.0. 3.0 is when we've got it all sorted and AI is personalized and it's working ethically within society and we have that global ethical foundation and we're, we're expanding so we have the balance and then we expand. Yeah. So world 2.0 is the creation of the balance and world 3.0 is when we're expanding. Okay. Right. How do we do that? Well, we talked about new data governance laws. Right. Now let me ask you a question. What happens if the ethicalness of data was measured in each silicon chip so that your data, this is where your personalized.

So you're building the infrastructure into the chip itself to do its own deterministic or its ethical decision making at that level at a proximity to the individual.

Right, exactly. This new data ethics model that I've built for AI, what happens if it's got eight questions and CERTIFIES and what it does, it makes sure that your data is with you, not remote from you. Although secondly, you know your data wherever it's used. Right. Not just in a service, but beyond the service is permission based and you have the full audit trail knowing when it's being used, by whom and for what purposes.

So our phone won't be turning on 400,000 times a night to tell us, to tell them everything about us, right?

Yeah, that would be annoying. Right, so.

Well, it already is. It already is doing it, yeah.

Why do you think that is? I mean, how. If the data governance in this country is so good, why do we get spam calls? Why do we get malicious texts? Basically, there is real problems in a lot of countries around data governance. So my point is, what happens if we have ethical data governance in every single computing chip? Now you can't be unethical anymore, can you?

And in every chip. So you're talking any digital device from your refrigerator to your phone to your, your, your smart clothing.

Yeah.

And. But is it not. But is it every chip for each person or is it that the scent. Is it a decentralized, let's call it a blockchain, but for construct size is that it's a decentralized database of information confirmed along the network and therefore it's in each chip. It's asking the question, but it's still pulling for. From a global network of information.

Yeah, it could well be. But when it goes into the global network information, unlike now, which is basically, we are really, David, to the social dilemma, we are basically producers of data and we are harvest, we're being harvested.

Oh, of course, absolutely. Every time. Yeah, no doubt.

And this is the advancement and this is where there's going to be a big debate about data governance. Those countries that do it will advance significantly and those countries that think they run AI at the moment in leadership will be left behind. And so we're going to see some interesting polarity as some countries advance with these new data governance laws and others are stuck in paradigm mindset, greed and idiocracy. Right.

So name some countries who's going to be on it, who's not.

I think that places like Kenya, Western Africa will move quickly. I think that India will move quickly. India, yep. I do. I think that Europe will stand out on its own again as a region. How the UK fits in, I don't know. I think that Canada have a great strategy at the moment. I think they're probably number one in the world around their AI strategy. If they've got it right for the moment in world 1.0. I think that America's on is America has a big conversation with Silicon Valley at the moment. It's got to have a big conversation. Because whilst these social media companies bring so much benefit right to us being connected, it is clear that we're being manipulated and it is clear that has to change. And so one of the things that I was writing about recently is if we had ethical control over our data for Facebook and paid $1 a year or even $1 a month, but we had complete control, we knew exactly where it was going, which third parties were using it, which applications would be using it, you know, would you pay a dollar for the absolute transparency? And the answer is yes. Would Facebook still be, still be successful? Of course it would. So, you know, I believe that the, this harvesting of data from the general population, and I'll debate anybody on stage about this, is that I think that time's over. And I think those countries that are modernizing their computing infrastructure with quantum computing and edge compute and all these kind of things, smart cities, will advance significantly beyond some of the old paradigms. My hope is that the social media companies transform and become a beneficial ally in our future. But let me ask you a question. What value has the AI and social media done to tackle the inequity that we've experienced from COVID Has it helped solve some of the genetics that we need to do for vaccines, if that's the right way to go? How has it helped with delivering food to people's home? How has it helped people to be in community and to pay their bills? Has that AI had any relevance to the global pandemic? Well, it's helped us to be connected, which is great and important, but I think they can go much further. And we're starting to see the culture and bias behind the AIs that are being developed in these social media organizations and their relevance to going forward with a human story.

If so, to get that to happen, do you get Jack Ma, do you get Zuckerberg? Do you get these individuals to find purpose? Because I think they think they already found it.

This is, I suspect that this will be the done by other entrepreneurs that get it, other entrepreneurs that kind of have a vision for this ethical foundation that is not about come by our utopia, but it's about us thriving in a new paradigm in a way that we just can't imagine.

What's your timeline? Is this a 10 year? Is this a 20 year? Is this a 40 year? If you were to put a stake in the ground and say we will have ethical such thing with chips and capabilities and that we will find more purpose. And we will see like when you see the sci fi movies where something hits and it just spreads all over, what's the year?

So World 2.0 will start in the next. 12 to 18 months. The Conversation will start to create momentum. Okay, so conversation then the innovation, I can't declare too much around that, but I think we'll start to see within the next three to five years infrastructure that supports these kinds of ethical data paradigms. And then I think that as we're going out of this decade will start to see World 2.0 and the emergence of World 3.0 nations when it doesn't.

Have to be on stage, we could sit at a table. But I've had these conversations and I often hear, well, this millennial generation or this new group or this new that. And I will often ask globally, because it's fairly well known, did you ever hear about the sixties and seventies in the United States as peace, love, rock and roll, save the planet, save the world. And yeah, I'm assuming you did, who did they become?

Microsoft?

They became the hedge fund managers, the mega mansion people. They are the people today who are, are doing all the things that or in the past 10 years, 20 years, they're doing all the things that you and I, if you went back in time, would have thought were an impossibility. They were about saving the planet. They were loving creatures, hugging your friends and neighbors, sex was free, bras were ripped off. I mean all of that. And is that, that that just didn't happen. What makes it that your paradigm will happen?

Because we have no choice. Let me explain why.

I love you, Natalie.

I mean, Matthew, because we have no choice. What I'm proposing is how do we bring mindfully artificial intelligence as an ethical player on the global stage? And why do we need to do that? Simply, 7.5 billion people is not going to reduce. It's probably going to increase.

It's going to go to 10 billion in the next 30 years.

So we need to put in place foundations, both at a regional, national, continent and also global level that are principles for us going forward. You see, the world is built on kind of principles that really don't cater for balance and expansion. And we need to change that. You know, the UN try, right, with all their initiatives. And so what I think, why I think it will work is for probably three or four reasons. One is I think people are understanding that they're providing data crops that are being harvested by big business.

I would probably say a small group of people are becoming more aware.

Okay, right. Well, how would you define small?

Well, I get all these acceptance all the time. I want a software application. Yes or no? I get all yes or no? Yes or no? Yes or no?

Well, let's look at this. When people say yes or no, right. The reason why they. If you ask someone, whenever I do keynotes, I always say to people, you know, how many people think you've got control of your data? Very few. How many people want control of your data? Maybe everybody. So the reason why people don't disturb the big business, right. Most of the ITT infrastructure at the moment. The reason they don't is because there's no alternative and they don't rock the boat. So I think part of the conversation is sitting down with the leaders of the tech giants and say, look, guys, you're doing great. You really have got great purpose. You're connecting people together in social media. But let's discuss about what your relevancy in the next five to 10 years. What's your relevancy and what is it? What's your legacy? Do you want the Wall Street Journal to write about you? He was wealthy, or do you want to say the Wall Street Journal wrote about he sold inequity in cities. What do you want your legacy to be?

You have such a. It's a hopeful, aspirational view. Yeah, it would be great. But I honestly believe many of these individuals have a completely different mindset set, harmonic resonance, or whatever you want to call it. And they don't equate. Okay, you take. And again, I'm not trying to pick on a person. I'm using an example. Bezos made I don't know how many billion dollars over the past eight months and he gave $100 million to. To Covid. His ex wife was given X billion and before she could spend it, she made 2 billion more.

There's nothing wrong with making money.

No, no, but she's trying to get rid of it. She's trying to spend it. She couldn't do it fast enough. The point is she had one construct. This money could serve purposes and value one way. He has another constant construct. I don't know if sitting down and having. I would. I'm thinking of blockchain. I'm thinking of the beginning of the crypto wave that crashed. It's still there. There's a little blockchain wave. But the. It was all about freedom, transparency, collectiveness. Connectiveness. And how many of the blockchain companies that I know are gone and how many and how many do I know that ripped off the people they were servicing? They got, they got their money, they transferred it out and then they laughed all the way to the bank. But they weren't really into loving my neighbor.

Right. Okay, so this is not about loving my neighbor. This is about giving your activating or supporting or this is about basically giving ourselves and our neighbor a great experience. So why do I think this will work? One is, I think the global conversation is not going away. AI ethics is coming up for debate. I'm looking forward to having conversations and educating so called professors and leaders in this field. The second thing is that the conversation about AI is not going away and therefore it needs to be brought in the public domain and it needs a positive spin. And not just a positive spin, but a positive roadmap into the future. We talked about how I can see particular realities and this is one reality I see and I'm serving that reality. The, the other thing that we do is we. If every single computing chip, as I said, had ethics in the middle of it, Right. And there was become a standard, an ISO standard or an IEEE standard for all computing devices within say Europe. Right. Then if you didn't have ethical, you wouldn't be able to build or deploy data systems of today on top of that ethical framework because you wouldn't be allowed to run. So if we change things at the fundamental computing level, where it's silicon or neomorphic or whether it's even quantum, which is still a long way out. Really.

Yeah, it's, it's further than. We get a lot of news, but that news is far away.

Yes. The quantum actually is emulated because you need to have four different realities running parallel for the qubits to work. Yeah.

And we've only done so many small fractional pieces. We haven't done billions and billions and billions and billions where we're not even close to the quantum. Quantum the way we've defined it in sci fi.

Yeah. And we're making progress, which is important. It's good for genetics. So my point is this. If we change the computing level in the silicon with ethical standards from a nation where only ethical computing equipment is deployed, therefore only ethical digital services and ethical AI can function or even run on those computing systems, well then you've just changed the whole game. You've made a big move forward. And the question is, is this going to be done? I'm not going to reveal that, but I believe.

There'S a company called Purism run by Todd. There's a company called Purism run by Todd Weaver. And he has built laptops and servers with their own operating system from the ground up that actually your phone, your laptop and your server running the same operating system. So it's ubiquitous across them. And his is about the chip had to be remanufactured from the ground up in order to be able to allow for privacy. So his entire business, business, it's a purpose driven business. His entire business is structured around that. The laptop and the servers that you use can fundamentally not be hacked because they don't operate the same way.

Right.

And while we have a switch to turn off our microphone or there's a switch to turn off your, what do you call it, webcam, those are going to be more normal. But his is fundamentally, you cannot hack it this way because there is no key to hacking it. And so what you're saying is you need a groundswell of technologies that are impervious to the collection of, while at the same time capable of doing a sovereign personal identity infrastructure.

Yeah. Enables your personalized AI and ethical AI to exist within the national borders is a digital citizen test. Absolutely. And so I think there's global forces. I think the, this is why the work that I do so important because it democratizes the narrative and gives people a clear roadmap on how to build the future. Where we tested the narrative with people of different genders, people of different cultures, different social demographics and different, all sorts of ages in order for them to be able to grasp the narrative and to understand it. And every single person came away and says, I'm now excited about the future of AI because I understand how it needs to be built.

So what you're telling me, and you tell me if I'm wrong is you're telling, you're not saying that you're going to help people realize their purpose. Don't say anything. What you're going to do is you're going to create the infrastructure around it by decoupling individuals from the system, but in an end coupling or recoupling them in a new way. And this new construct which allows the personal AI, which allows your identity understanding, will give humankind the time, the capacity, the wherewithal to ask different questions about themselves and discover their purpose. But you're not helping people see their purpose through the construct of teaching about purpose like a guru from India or a guru from anywhere. I just thought of one in my head is you're doing it saying, if I change X, I will get Y, therefore I'm focusing on X. And it will be like I was gonna say the virus. We now use virus as a bad term. But we used to say we want everything to be viral. Yes, we wanted it to be viral. That was a good thing viral. But now it's a bad thing viral. But you really are looking to create one of those type of amorphic flowing waves that start one point and they spread from country to country over mountains tops and everything. And once you've become in this new modality, you then change as a human being and find purpose.

That's right. Based on your choice. That's exactly right. It's a great summary, David. And if you and I and paradigms change, if you and I walked into a gas station 12 months ago with a mask, the police will be all over you now. If you don't walk into a gas station without a mask, then you're probably sent out. So paradigms change.

I did a video about this in the beginning of COVID and I talked about how masks. I said, I've lived in Asia. They had 29 countries impacted by SARS. They wear masks for the purposes of protecting community. And I won't go into the whole video, but at one point I said, you've probably done this. You have been in an airport or someplace and saw an Asian wearing a mask. And you went, ah, see that person? They're afraid of us. They don't want to. They don't want to get anything from us. And the reality is the exact opposite. They were wearing a mask because they felt sick and they didn't. They were being communally responsive to you. It was not view to them.

That's right, that's.

And we don't, we don't think in that way. So that's why I was trying to say this is back in March, I was saying, you're wearing a mask for community. And while I lived in Hong Kong, which was hit the most from SARS is that, that's the one behavioral relic we talked about, the pandemics, but the one behavioral relic that came from sars. Nothing else that I can see, there's no hand washing, nothing else is that if you felt sick, you put on a mask.

Right?

If you. I was walking into a meeting. The CEO says to me, do you need a mask? I probably coughed or did something, I don't know. And I said, sure. And I was uncomfortable. I was everything. But he was saying, you're not feeling well, you should put on a mask. And one of the things that I had always felt bad about is we are visitors in their country. Expats are. And expats never wore masks. They'd cough and sneeze and do and everything. And yet the society, the culture did. And I always felt really bad because I felt it was a disrespect to the individuals who lived through a horrific time and it understood the consequences of poor behavioral conditions.

That's a good story and a beautiful story and also a sad story. And goes to the point is, if only we were able and taught to look at perspectives from a different angle, we'd probably be less angry, would probably be less frustrated, and we'd probably be more compassionate.

In Paid to Think, the book that I wrote, you. I don't have it. I wrote the most difficult chapter in the book to write. And it's a tome. It's 297,000 words. The one chapter was the one on global awareness. I went all around the world asking CEOs of major companies, small companies, and asked them, how do you teach people to be globally aware? It was the most challenging and disheartening conversations. We'll have them travel. People travel. They go around from one location to the next, the next, the next. They didn't learn anything. Well, have them work in a country. I know people who've worked in countries who can't say a word of the language, never associate with any of the locals or their different socioeconomic class, and went on and on and on. And the construct that came out of it is there was four. Four things. One of them is biological nature. The next one is physical lands and landscapes and environments that you're in. Then it's governance and technology. And those are the four things that people have to experience to be able to understand a culture. And it's not an easy thing for people to make those jumps because we don't teach people to. People don't also have the opportunity to meet with one another. I know we went off topic, but I tried to bring it back around. The future of humanity depends on. We kind of touched on those.

I've got five minutes.

Yes, you had. Sure. I hope you had a great time. This is the type of conversation about redefining tomorrow that I love. And I want to thank all of you out there who listened and took the time to follow this discovery with us. And I do hope, I believe we both hope that you learn something today that will make a difference in your life and the lives of others. Remember that saying is that you can't fix yesterday, you can only create tomorrow. So is there one best way, Matthew, for people to get a hold of you?

Yes, of course. They can Visit me at matthewjamesbailey.com or AIethics World, or they can write to me at matthewathewjanesbailey.com if you would like.

To reach out to me, you can reach me@DavidGoldsmith.com there's Instagram @MrDavidGoldsmith. I didn't make that name up. Someone did it for me. You can connect with me on Twitter at at Goldsmith, I'm on LinkedIn, Facebook. There's many ways to get a hold of me again. I hope you enjoyed our conversation. And with that said, I'm David Goldsmith, and thank you for listening.