In this live episode of the Connector Podcast recorded at the Digital Finance Summit 2022 in Brussels, host Koén Vanderhoydonk interviews András, founder and CEO of Ergomenia Digital Product, a UX/UI and service design agency specialized in fintech, banks, and financial institutions. The conversation covers: (1) Ergomenia’s ten‑year, pan‑European presence and work in markets such as the US, Singapore, Brazil, and Senegal; (2) a clear distinction between UX (architecture, user flows, functional logic) and UI (visual branding, trust generation); (3) why fintech design requires industry‑specific knowledge and how it differs from generic digital design; (4) Ergomenia’s community‑building book that compiles interviews with 50 fintech leaders from 15 European countries, offering cross‑country snapshots and fostering cooperation; (5) observed cultural and market differences among European fintech ecosystems (e.g., Polish vs. Spanish ambition, Czech focus on craftsmanship, German domestic strength, Bulgarian startup challenges, Belgian multilingual advantage); (6) actionable advice for startups – prioritize features based on research, avoid unnecessary functionality, and maintain regular testing to preserve simplicity (illustrated with Revolut’s evolution); (7) Ergomenia’s outreach channels, conference participation, strong digital presence, and upcoming Amsterdam office. The episode ends with thanks to Fintech Belgium and a call to subscribe.
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Welcome to the Connector Podcast, an ongoing conversation connecting fintechs, banks, and regulators worldwide. Join CEO and founder Koen Vanderhoydonk as you learn more about the latest available trends and solutions in the markets. This episode is proudly sponsored by Fintech Belgium, the digital finance association by and for fintechs. Live from the Digital Finance Summit 2022.
A warm welcome to everyone to our podcast channel here at the Digital Finance Summit in Brussels. And we not only have Belgian people around today, but we also have people from abroad. And therefore, I'm very pleased, very happy to have András in front of me coming all the way from Hungary. Can you maybe introduce yourself a little bit, András?
Yes. Hi, Koen, and hi, everybody. Yeah, I'm the founder and CEO of Ergomenia Digital Product We are a UX agency providing UX, UI, and service design services for fintechs and banks and financial institutions. And we are operating for 10 years all over Europe, even on overseas markets like US, Singapore, Brazil, Senegal. Cool.
So very, very international. So what do you like about the Belgian market?
I like in the Belgian market that it's very open and international. So like It's a kind of mixture of different languages and cultures, and it makes it more flexible and more open for new solutions. And the people are very curious, and I like it. What is that? They are organized, they have a plan, they know how to proceed, but they keep the flexibility. So if the, the context or the situation changes, they can adapt and they can go on. I like that, and for this reason, it's very easy to work with Belgian people.
And that's why you're a regular visitor to the FinTech Belgium community.
Absolutely, that's one of the reasons.
And that's a real pleasure, Andreas. That's a real pleasure. You say that UX and UI is different, and we talked about it by coincidence yesterday evening, but maybe you can— can you explain to the audience what is the difference? So, once and for all, Everyone knows what is the difference.
Yes, it's very easy to mix up the 2 things because they are connected. And traditionally, both of the professions were covered by the same people, usually kind of designers. Nowadays also we have product designers who are covering both of the professions, more on the UX side, but dealing with UI as well. UX design mostly focusing on the structure and functional logic of applications and software. So basically it's I could say as an example that it's something like what an architect is doing in the process of building an office building. So understanding the users, understanding the business needs, developing the flows, and making high-level structural plans for the application or the software.
Mm-hmm.
And also testing that application, that whether they meet the user expectations and the business aspects also. but it's pretty important. UI is more focusing on that to create branding for that solutions or update the branding and to make those solutions up to date and meeting the expectation, visual expectations of the users. So basically like UX is focusing on streamlined, painless working mechanisms and giving pleasure in the process.
Mm-hmm.
Meanwhile, UI is generating trust. So it makes the application and solution trustful.
Or recognizable to the brand.
Yes, also.
Yeah. All right. Well, super interesting. But what strikes me is that, well, it's nice that you have a UX/UI agency, but specialized in fintech and finance and banking. Are we then so special?
Yes, I think Most of the cases we are applying similar methodologies. So if you are developing an e-commerce website or a telecommunications solution, you're using usually the same methods but with different proportions. Of course, there are some edge cases. If you are designing a game, you use a little bit different methodologies than, than, than for a fintech solution. But I think what is important, the, the knowledge of the industry, the standards, the best practices, the the logic behind. So I think it speeds up really, uh, development of fintech solutions if you, if you really know how those things are working. So you, if you have a crypto project, you should not start from the, hey guys, there is something called blockchain and it's so cool and it works like this and this and this, and they ask 600 questions and they always make mistakes. If you have a specialized team, they don't ask these questions and they focus on to make your solution the best and not just kind of average and understanding your needs. So, that's the difference, I think.
Well, you just came in into our little room here and there was a very nice book that you brought. Can you explain a bit more about the book itself? Because I think that's where you get the mustard from, right? That's where you get the knowledge from.
Yes, I think in our case, Like every company is working on to make some profit that they could work further and pay their employees and founders and blah blah. But we find it very important to give back to the community where we feel that we belong. So we think that if you want to belong to the fintech community, you have to give not just great projects but knowledge and share information and motivate those people. And we are doing several activities. So we have memberships in different fintech associations, we are organizing meetups around design and fintech. But our latest initiative was this book, and this book was basically created to, to share the views of 50 fintech leaders and bankers about the fintech scene of Europe from 15 countries. And we think that if we give this book to the community We help them to talk with each other, to understand each other, and leaders of different fintech companies to cooperate in different countries as well. So we like— we would like to have those people to have a kind of higher level of cooperation, not just within countries but overarching.
I heard you talking just a few minutes ago with somebody from the Belgian industry. And I liked your introduction. I was not listening, no GDPR issues, but I was overhearing. And you said what is nice about the book is that it's been divided into countries. And I like that idea that you said if you go to a conference or you meet people from another country, you can basically get a snapshot of what's happening.
Yes, it's exactly, I think. So we are not covering all the European countries, but 15 we are covering, starting from Spain to Bulgaria to Norway, Switzerland, and so on. I could endlessly repeat those, but it's really like from each country we have 3 interviews, and the interview participants are usually kind of randomly selected from the industry. So some of them are national bankers, bankers, design leaders, leading small or very successful fintechs. So they give like a kind of snapshot what's happening around them, and also they are mentioning other companies. So they are not just talking about their own companies, but they are sharing their views about their own country, and also they are mentioning other interesting companies or associations from their own countries. So like if you are covering, let's say, Spain, you get information about 15, 20 other companies as well.
And, Andreas, do you see any specific trends, changes, differences between different nations in a small Europe?
Yeah, I think the countries are still quite different. So, I think it has like kind of cultural differences. There are some surprising similarities in some cases. So, for example, I think the attitude towards fintech is more similar between Polish and Spanish people than, for example, Polish and Czech people, who are culturally closer because like Spanish people and Polish people, they are very ambitious. They have like huge plans. They really want to go international. They really want to make something big. Meanwhile, Czech fintechs, they're focusing more on crafting, making the the solutions. Perfect, and of course they are happy to extend to other countries, but they are really focusing first on their own country. Or for example, Germany has this specialty that like it's a big country, financially strong country, so they are relatively happy at home. So, so if they create a solution, of course they want to go to international and conquer other markets as well. But if it works in Germany, that's fine. Meanwhile, it's not true, for example, for a Bulgarian startup.
Yeah, so it's almost where you are, which makes your story, your journey almost set up in advance, right? I mean, if you're in a rather smaller country as Belgium, then it's somehow a logical step that internationalization is your next step.
Yes, yes. And in some cases it's easier. For example, for Belgian companies, it's easier from the language point of view that they can get to countries and granted like France and the Netherlands. So, it's easier to cover a bigger market. Why is it complicated, for example, I think for Czechs that to extend?
Well, since you do a lot of UX/UI, what would be typically like if you would give us your 50 cents, your few tips to the audience how to best improve the user journeys, what would that then be? What are the specific methods that you use? Or like, what do we do? A couple of tips.
Yeah, I think what is very important to focus on the offering, I mean, the feature set or which journeys we are covering with the application, especially for new startups, that to select those features, not just on gut feeling. but to do very proper research and to understand the context. And usually it's not the problem that they are missing out important features, but several times they are developing unnecessary features. And especially if you are in early phase and you are short on money, you really should not waste your little money on unnecessary things. I think that's very important for—
Very good lesson.
For startups who are starting. For bigger startups, I think it's more important the regular testing. So like to improve the application, but also to keep the focus. For example, I think Revolut is a very good case for that, that it was a very simple application, everybody loved it. But as it was developing and more research was coming back with different needs and and expectations, the application got more fragmented because they tried to cram in all the results, all the requests, all the needs into one application, and it lost its simplicity. So now it's a kind of mess up of good features. Individually, the features are quite good still, but somewhat the structure and the logic got very fragmented in Revolut.
So, it's the UX part.
Yes, yes, it's important.
You see, I'm a fast learner.
Yeah, I know.
No, that, that's great. And, and it's, it's interesting to have, um, somebody from abroad, although I know you're very often in the market, so I would almost consider you as a, as a Belgian. So, don't worry. But, uh, yeah, it's nice to have that reflection, and, and it's also helpful for other startups to, to, to get that feel on, on how things are going somewhere else and what are tips and tricks that you can use at specific phases of a lifecycle of a startup. Andras, if people want to contact you, for what reason should they contact you and where do they find you?
Like, we are very easy to find almost everywhere. So we are quite much on conferences in the Netherlands and in Belgium and in other countries as well. We have a strong digital presence, so on our website it's easy to contact us, or LinkedIn, or even email, or old-fashioned phone works for us. So like, we really—
Oh, really?
Yeah, yeah, we pick up the— we still pick up the phone.
That's very good UX.
Yes, so it's easy to meet us. Also, soon we are opening our office in Amsterdam.
Congratulations.
Thank you very much. So we will be more accessible in Benelux region. Physically as well. And yeah, so we are everywhere basically.
And I can confirm. Well, thank you so much, Andreas, for sharing your insights today in this podcast. It's been a great pleasure to have you here. Also, a big thank you to Belgium Fintech for making this happen. It has been a great day with many, many podcasts already. So, to the listeners also, thank you very much for staying in here. Please link up, subscribe, and follow other podcasts. Thank you so much.
Thank you.
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