Kristaps Porzingis On Career Regrets, The Knicks Trade, Luka Doncic, Winning In Boston and More

a free agency decision I made, or a free agency decision I didn't make. Did the lights just dim? That was nice.

Welcome to The Old Man and Three with JJ Redick and Tommy Alter, brought to you by 342 Productions. This is episode 191, Kristaps Porzingis. Tommy's out of town this week, so he will not be joining me for the intro. He's off in Hollywood somewhere. Probably pitching a movie script. I don't know, but he's out of town. I'm solo for this intro. Went up to Boston last week with our guy Richie. Richie, say hello. I want to hear you say hello.

What's up?

There's Richie. Richie's a new member, newish member.

He's been working for a while, but he's in New York now.

Newish member of the 342 family and team. Very excited to have him. Richie and I went up to Boston last week and sat down with KP, uh, had a great conversation. We covered a lot of stuff. Uh, we cover the Knicks, we covered Dallas, uh, his time so far in Boston, his year in anonymity in Washington, where I thought he had his best season of his career so far. Uh, and, and some of the prospects about potentially winning a championship this year with Boston. Uh, we'll get to KP in a second. I do want to start with our DraftKings segment. Speaking of Boston, they took a loss the other night in Indianapolis. I spent a ton of time yesterday on Zach Lowe's podcast, The Low Post. Go check that out. Talking about this game, Boston, of course, were the favorites to win the Eden Season Tournament. After the quarterfinals games, Milwaukee is now the favorites. Lakers second, Pelicans third, Indy the lowest odds to win the in-season tournament. But what a story Indy has been so far this season. Just an historic offense and the pilot, the captain, whatever you want to call it, of that offense has been Tyrese Halliburton. I've got some stuff on Tyrese Halliburton that is just too damn good not to share. So I'm going to share it. Tyrese Halliburton right now averaging 26.9 points per game, 11.9 assists. 52% from the field. No player has averaged 25 points, 10 assists, and 50% shooting for an entire season. He's got a 5.05 assist-to-turnover ratio. No player has averaged 25 points and 5.0 assist-to-turnover ratio in a season, period, since individual turnovers were first tracked in 1977. Only one player has averaged 25 points per game and assisted on 25 points per game in a season, and that was James Harden. James Harden. In 2016, 2017. Tyrese is doing that this year. Uh, another note, Trae Young having a monster season with the Hawks. He's also doing that this year. Tyrese is assisting on 28.5 points per game. That would be the most points per game assisted on in a season in the last 25 years. Uh, he has 3 games already with 25 points, 10 assists, 0 turnovers this season. Already the most in a season by any player since 1977.

Interesting.

Watching the game the other night, uh, one of the things that I think Tyrese has gotten much better at, in fact, the numbers say he's elite at, uh, is actually driving the basketball and finishing, something that he's improved on throughout his career so far. According to Second Spectrum, Halliburton has averaged 1.30 points per direct drive this season. That's the second best efficiency in the NBA among players with 100+ drives. Only Damian Lillard has scored more points per direct drive. Tyrese ranks in the top 10 in all ball screens used per 100 possessions, and he's averaging 1.26 points per direct play. That's the best efficiency among players to use 150 on-ball screens as the ball handler. And if you notice the other night, something he does almost every game multiple times, he rejects those ball screens. He's one of 2 players in the NBA to reject 100+ on-ball screens this season, the other being Jalen Brunson, and the Pacers have averaged an efficient 1.32 points per direct pick when he rejects the ball screen. Frankly, he's a superstar. There's no other way to put it. And this ascension from really fun, really good rookie to where he's at now in his fourth year is fairly astonishing. Yeah. And if you look back, again, we, we talk about this 2020 draft all the time. You look back and you look at some of the players selected ahead of him and where he was on a lot of people's draft boards going into the draft and to see him sort of fall and tumble down to Sacramento late in the lottery. A lot of folks scratching their heads right now. Tyrese on DraftKings Sportsbook. If you look at the, we're not talking MVP for the regular season, only in-season terminodes. Right now, Tyrese Halliburton has the fourth best odds amongst all players left in the in-season tournament. Right now, LeBron James at +350, Giannis at +400, Dame at +400. Lots of fun stuff you can get in on, on DraftKings Sportsbook with the in-season tournament. I'm going to be in Vegas. I will be going to the games on Thursday, and then I will be on First Take Friday. And I will be on NBA Today Friday before I head back to coach some 7 and 9-year-olds this weekend. Uh, really appreciate you guys as always for listening to the podcast. Can't believe we are approaching 200 episodes. Can't believe we are approaching a million subscribers on YouTube. I can't thank you enough. If you haven't already, please hit that subscribe button. If you are one of our YouTube viewers, would mean a lot to us to get to a million subscribers. I don't know why. It's just a milestone. It's a cool number. I think we get a plaque. Tommy took the 100,000 subscriber plaque. He's got that somewhere in his apartment. I'd like to get the million plaque. I would.

Personally, I would.

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KP, I want you to be honest with me about something.

What's up, man?

The Dallas Mavericks. 2020, 2021 team, who was the best Bourré player on that team?

Good question. You know what, we didn't play Bourré as much. We played more Tom.

You guys maybe played Tom.

Yeah, that's what we were playing. That was the year you were on also, right?

Yeah. For the last 2 months.

Maybe. And JJ was not there anymore that year.

No, because we were traded for each other.

That's right.

Yeah. I heard he was a good card player though.

He was, he was good up until that trade. When you came in, you were maybe third best.

I never played Tong before.

You did not.

No, it was, hold on, it was Luka.

Luka.

Who didn't pay his debt to me, which I'm still mad about. You, JB, and Timmy, right? That was the five that played.

I think so, I think so.

And then Timmy would have a shooting slump and then stop playing with us.

That is true. And I just remember when I was texting you about this, I did lose some money to you. I don't remember what it was, but I had some receipts from sending you money.

Oh, wow.

That's what you do, stealing money from young guys.

Luca, you still owe me $1,700. I have not resolved that debt. I just want to let you know. Early impressions of Boston and just being here, this team, Coach Mazzulla, the fan base. How's it been?

It's been great, honestly. Fans welcomed me with open arms here, day one. Joe has been great. Playing at TD Garden is special, you know. What else can I ask for? Playing with these kind of guys, these caliber players, it's just a perfect scenario.

My understanding is your exit from Washington was definitely a trade, but it was a little bit of a free agency as well, where you had a couple deals on the table where you could get traded and then sign an extension. And correct me if I'm wrong, but you took less money to come here. What was it about this opportunity and Boston and this team that made you want to do that?

Yeah, no, just the ability to win a championship, compete for a championship, you know? That's what excited me, that opportunity. And when that presented on the table, that was presented on the table, I didn't think too much about it, you know. I knew my game would fit well with JT and JB and the guys that were here. So, yeah, I was just hoping that because of the trade deadline and when it was coming close, like, it was like last moment and I didn't know what was going to happen. But when it came true, I was really happy.

Right, because you had to opt in as part of the trade, right? Correct. So it came down to the end of June, essentially.

Exactly.

Yeah. The podcast I did with Joe, we were just discussing it. I know you didn't watch the whole thing. It's okay. But one of the things that he said to me is he said, we haven't seen the best of KP because he hasn't been on a— I'm paraphrasing this. He did say we haven't seen the best of KP, but he says because he hasn't been on a championship-level team in a high-pressure situation late in the playoffs. You know, that sort of notion of coming here, being on what I would describe as one of the most relevant teams in the NBA, legacy franchise, and some of the other experiences you've had, particularly in Washington. You know, I said this when you got traded. I was like, most people don't know this, but Kristaps Porzingis had his career year last year in Washington. Yeah. But nobody was really paying attention. You know, how much did that just factor into it? The relevancy versus, you know, I know, happen to know one of the other options, not going to say it out loud, but just the relevancy of being on a team that's in the spotlight.

No, it definitely— like, I got a taste of it when I was in New York, you know, and that was one of the biggest stages you could play on. And I enjoy that so much. Honestly, it was more about just being in a team where I can actually win. Winning was more important than being in the biggest market, you know? But if you can combine those two, that's even better, you know?

I think that the thing I'm curious about though is like the pressure of being on not even just a team in the spotlight, but being on a team that has been to the Finals recently, has been to a number of Conference Finals recently, traded away one of the sort of culture makers to get you. As you had months leading up to the season, I know you spent some time here in the preseason, but did you sort of wrap your head around that pressure that was going to come with this season?

Yeah, no, I— that's what I wanted. I wanted the challenge. I wanted like— I wanted to be challenged. I wanted to maybe like, okay, my last year in Dallas.— the year before I got traded, right? I didn't have the best playoff series. We got kicked out of the first round. And now I'm like, okay, I have to prove to everybody that I can play on a playoff team or a championship-caliber team and perform and remind everybody, okay, that can happen, but here I am, you know? And just the idea of that challenge was like, okay, this is what I want.

Have you noticed anything about the guys on the team, the organization, Joe, just in terms of like the different mindset with this team versus some of the other teams you've been on? Like even just night to night in a regular season game, how is it different? How does that sort of manifest itself?

Oh, you definitely feel the, You feel like the culture and even the history, like, here, it's very strong, right? And these guys have already built something, you know, that is very close to winning it all, you know? And coming into this kind of environment is just a different energy. Like, this is— we all know what the goal is here, and it just adds more motivation, more— it already adds more to my passion, to my drive, you know, just being around these kind of— this kind of environment, these kind of people that want to achieve the ultimate goal. And for me, that's all I can ask for.

So I believe it was ESPN, it may have been The Athletic, and I apologize to whoever wrote the article, but there was an article within the last 7 to 10 days talking about this meeting that Jayson Tatum organized amongst the 6 starters. And it was a really good article, but it never really went into how you guys decided on Al, like, as being the odd man out.

Yeah, no, it's, obviously somebody had to sit out, right? And I think Al is the type of leader, the type of guy that we all said it, like in that meeting that, hey, look, we don't care. Like, of course JT and JB is not gonna come off the bench, right? But the rest of us, we said like, whatever, like we're whatever we're—

You said that as well.

Yeah, of course, yeah. But realistically, like Al is really like, this guy will give everything, everything to the team. Like, he, like, you know, the most selfless, like, guy you can find and great leader for us. And at the end of the day, I just kind of, you know, JB said something and then I don't know how it got to the end point, but we all knew, like, Drew said it also. And I guess Al was, you know, he was cool with it. And we all had to sacrifice a little bit, right? And I think, yeah, just Al just didn't care.

He just took it.

Yeah.

Al's great. There were 3 things that got me really excited about the fit of you being on this team. One of the things was the potential to actually play 2-man game. Um, because I've, I've talked with Joe a little bit about this and I've said this publicly, you know, I felt at times there was like a lot of redundancy with the skill set between JB and JT, and there wasn't someone for them to go play two-man game with. And the early returns specifically on that second side, left side with you and JB in two-man has been really good. How has that chemistry sort of evolved? Apparently you guys are now best friends on and off the court. You've replaced somebody, I guess.

Yeah, honestly, it has been very natural. Like, just my game mixing with JB and me starting to understand where JB is most comfortable in, and we're just playing off of each other. He's a willing passer, he's a good passer, and and me like mixing the roles and pops, and he likes to play that two-man game. And same with JT. Just, I think, just JB going downhill, curling, all those, very dangerous. And then I get a lot off of that, you know, and he makes life easier for me. So I think it's just very natural.

I asked Joe about one of the games I had, I think it might have been the Brooklyn game a couple weeks ago, just about in the half-court sets, you picking and popping sometimes, picking and rolling other times, even before you got here. Has that always just been a feel thing for you? Or is it a specific play that you're like, I know I'm gonna roll, I know I'm gonna pop? Are you just feeling that out based on how they're playing the coverage?

Yeah, I try to like, I mean, I talk to the coach, like my coach DJ, and ask him what he thinks, how they're gonna, defend me, right? So I try to visualize, okay, this guy is going to be maybe going to switch, whatever. I go through like the certain scenarios that can happen, but then it's also like a read in game, you know? And if I see them make an adjustment, then I have to make an adjustment offensively. You know, I have to set the screen a little bit different angle, low side and roll. And, you know, it's all kinds of things go into that. So, but usually I try to prefer prepare pregame and see how they played other type of players that are similar to me, maybe. Yeah.

The second thing that I was excited about, and I know this has been a point of emphasis for Joe going into the year, was posting up more. He wanted the roster to be able to post up more, specifically you and Jason and Jalen. And again, like, this is just, this is, anybody can find this data anywhere. KP, you're, this season, you're top 3 in the league in points per direct post. You were 2nd in the league last year, and you were top 15 in '22. Not a lot of people know that you were 2nd in the league last year in points per direct post-up. You know, that part of your game, because I played with you, and it was something that I felt like at times we sort of went away from.

Yeah.

Do you feel like you've gotten better since Dallas? You figured out more? The one thing I've noticed a lot is I think early in your career when you had smaller guys on you, you would turn and just try to shoot over the top. And now you're doing the, the Joel Embiid, uh, Brook Lopez rip through, right? Trying to bait the smaller guy to reach down on it.

Um, how, how just has your post offense evolved?

It has definitely evolved. Like, um, to be honest, like, I wasn't that efficient in Dallas, and it's just the reality, you know. I wasn't getting as many looks. So I never really developed like a decent rhythm. And you know, you start to, you know, the sweep through isn't as good looking and you don't get the foul and then you miss and it looks terrible. It's just like, and I was like, come on, man. I'm not like, this can't be, this can't be happening. So realistically, I wasn't as efficient in Dallas. And then yeah, and in Washington, I was getting more touches and got a good feel for it again. And good rhythm, and then just kept, kept on improving. Like, looked at my game realistically, like where I wasn't efficient, what kind of shots I wasn't efficient at, and, and analyzed all those kind of things. And, and yeah, you could see it in the numbers last couple of years when I've really paid attention to it. It has went up.

Yeah.

And the third thing, rim protection.

Um, top 5 this year in effective field goal percentage at the rim. Uh, top 10 last year and top 10 the year before.

Thank you, JJ. That's nice of you.

I feel like now, especially after last year and how you played so far this year, now we can say like Kristaps Porzingis is a good defender. That was a huge knock though at times in your career. And I feel like at times even you got picked on, you got targeted. And now you're in a situation where you can play drop, you can play switch. The preparation for that, the work on that, like how did you improve over the last few seasons defensively?

Again, just have to like take responsibility. Like when I was in Dallas, coming back, like my first year in Dallas, I think, I don't know what the numbers say, but from field-wise, I was pretty good. Second year, when I got hurt, coming back from injury, man, I was so stationary, like honestly, like. Like, realistically, the criticism that I was getting, it was, you know, for a good reason. I wasn't as good defensively. And then again, you know, my last year with Dallas, a little bit, I think it was better. But here in Washington, I again really paid attention to it and tried to improve. And I try to bring it now here in Boston. And as you can see, yeah, the numbers are good.

The numbers are good.

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Uh, I want to actually ask you about this because I want to give you a fair shake, which I feel like— I don't know if you got it in Dallas, but, um, I think it's pertinent to point out the fact that you came off an ACL injury, sat out a season, played your first year in Dallas, and then had a meniscus tear in the playoffs in the bubble, missed the first 9 games of the season. They managed your workload that year. I know I was there towards the end of the year where you weren't playing back-to-backs at times. Beyond just the health, like why do you think that it didn't work in Dallas? Dallas? I mean, it seems like you're in a place of self-reflection where you are now in your career.

Yeah, definitely, definitely. It's a mix of many things, but I think it's a big mix of things, you know? It's a big mix of things. Maturity, for sure, you know? Like, again, I'm talking about what I could have done better, you know? I'm not just— It's many things. Majority on my part, for sure. And then I wasn't that much into analytics and numbers. Like, if somebody, I think, at that stage of my career presented it to me the right way and said, you know, this is what we need to do, this is what we need from you, this is— you're going to be way more effective doing this, like, kind of explain it to me better. I think that would have made a difference a little bit. Because, you know, there's a— even now still with some players, like, ah, I don't— like, I don't want to see those numbers. Like, this is not, you know, this is not the computer game or something. So, you know, so, um, again, it's— I can go like— I don't know how, how deep I want to go into it and remember everything, but, uh, I could have done some things better and, and, and it didn't come out the way like all of us envisioned maybe, but definitely learned a lot from that.

Do you feel like there was a little bit of a young bull with you, specifically with like the Luka dynamic? Is that fair?

Young bull?

Young bull.

What does that mean?

Like a pissing contest.

Early on for sure.

Yeah.

Early on for sure. But I think we both tried to make it work, you know? It's just, I think communication, like maturity communication on both of our parts should have been better. And yeah, it's—

Yeah, again, I was only there 2 months and I only had my personal observations, but I was thinking about on the flight here today, I was thinking about we were playing a game in Memphis and Rick called a timeout and Luka sat down. We had the 5 seats on the floor and Luka sat down on one of the seats and was doing the Luka thing that he does where he's mumbling a bunch of words and it's clearly out of anger. We don't really know what he's saying, but he's saying things and Rick takes him out of the game and Luka reacts or whatever. And he's now like 10 feet away. And he's—

Rick was like, would you guys stop, stop being babies?

And you go, why don't you tell Luka to stop being a baby? And Rick goes, hey, Luka, stop being a baby. And I was like, okay, all right. Yeah.

I like it.

There's something there. There's something there.

Yeah.

I think what's interesting about your dynamic, whatever it was with Luka. Again, I don't have much insight into it, but whatever it was, I just think it's so common in the NBA. I mean, I watched it, I lived it on multiple teams, specifically with young players.

Mm-hmm.

I had a vet tell me the other day, talking about why he picked a certain team, in free agency to take less money and go try to win. And he's like, oh, it was because the two stars fucked with each other. They actually liked each other. But these guys were older. They're late in their careers. Winning is the only thing that really they haven't done yet. And I just think it's like a natural thing. How did not only just like Luka, but like being a rookie, second year guy playing with Melo, how did all that prepare you for coming into this situation? Yeah. With Jason and Jalen? And you obviously didn't know Drew was going to get traded when you got traded here, but to an extent Drew as well.

Good question. It's, I think it has to be pretty, it has to be clear like what the roles are, like who, because you don't want to, again, like it's important to like, have a good dynamic between you, you know, off the court and on the court, you know. It's— but again, it's— honestly, it's not that hard. It's not that hard when you're like past a certain age. I think it's when you're young, you just, you know, like, oh, I'm gonna prove this, or I'm gonna— like, the older you get, they were like, I just want to win, like, whatever we need. Like, all right, coach is not playing me, okay, he probably thinks I can't help his team right now, you know. It's like, it's not that We just complicated and then, you know, there's some like ego involved and all that. But honestly, it's just, you just have to make it simple and that's it.

All right. You brought up the Clippers series in '21. I think we talked about this during that series, but I just, you know, Rick basically told you to go stand in the corner and this wasn't going to be your series. I had a, I think I told you this. Similar series my last year with LA. We play game 1 in LA against Utah Jazz. They're top-locking me from half court on, you know, Rudy Gobert's in this massive drop off DeAndre. So like, there's nowhere for me to cut to, like, it's just not going to work, right? And Doc's, after game 1 in the film session, is like, JJ, this is not your series. Your role this series is to go stand in the corner. So I think I averaged like 6 points for the series. Had some awful shooting nights, 2 for 8, 3 for 7, whatever it wasn't. And I was really angry about, not even at Doc, I just was like angry after, during it, after it. And like a similar situation happened in that Clippers series and I like was in street clothes. So there's nothing I could do to really help you, but I just remember feeling a deep sense of empathy for what you were going through. What were your sort of emotions in that series? And then even just after the fact and sort of reflecting on that season and that series?

Yeah, that's— now honestly, like reflecting back on it, I just should have just said, okay, this is what you want. Like, I will do it like that to the best of my ability. But at that point, still, I was a little bit young and I was like, like, do it, how you say, like out of spite, like, oh, on purpose, I will not move from this corner. Like that, that little, that little bit of mindset, you know, and it's It was not correct, like, but of course I played hard and I gave everything on defense, and but a little bit of that was like creeping up on me, you know, that, that kind of feeling, and it's not a good feeling to play with.

No.

You know, and, and so, and you can of course find a thousand reasons or a thousand excuses and blame it on something else, but, um, I could have done a better job that series, you know, and that's it.

I feel the same way. I was like, I All right, it's not my series offensively. Like, I gotta go lock up Joe Ingles. I gotta do a better job of being disruptive on a George Hill pick and roll. Like, I gotta figure out a way to actually like help the team.

Yeah, exactly.

When you're in the middle of it though.

Stop, stop, this isn't the time to talk about it now.

Like, I just want plays to be ran for me, but no, just go stand in the corner.

Exactly.

We were talking earlier about just like, the anonymity a little bit of playing in Washington. Do you feel like because of your stint in Dallas, a little bit because of that '21 series against the Clippers, that by the end of last season, there was like an imbalance a little bit between your reputation as a player and actually how good you were as a player?

Yeah, I believe so. I believe so. Of course, there were a lot of people that— not a lot of people, but there were people that watched how I played last season. And, you know, let's say on social media, there were, you know, whenever somebody said, oh, Porzingis has been— where has he been? You know, and they would like be like, oh yeah, no, he had a great year in Wizards and, and so on. But in general, yeah, not a lot of people knew that I played some of the best basketball, if not my best season of my career last season. And, and yeah, and, you know, I'm thankful for Tommy Sheppard who brought me there, you know, and, and I was able to, to have a good year and a half there having fun and enjoying basketball. And, and, and yeah, fell in love with the city also, Washington.

I want to talk more Celtics stuff specifically about a couple guys, but I want to do that in a second. I actually, I actually want to go back a little bit back to the beginning. You are from Latvia. It's one of three Baltic states. It's in between Lithuania and Estonia, bordered by Russia on the east and Belarus on the southeast.

Oh, wow.

It's got a population of 1.8 million. I literally was looking this up today. I was like, 1.8 million people. And it's essentially the size of the US state of West Virginia in terms of landmass.

Yeah.

What's Latvia like? What's the country like? What are the people like?

You know, it's Eastern Europe. It's— people are to themselves, especially like at this time of year. It's dark outside, it's raining or snowing, and it's, you know, it affects people's moods. And this is how we're brought up, you know. We're not, you know, we're not Cuban and we're not all happy and we don't have that type of personalities. But of course, this is a special place for me in my heart. I lived there until I was 15, then I moved to Spain. I was there for 5 years, so I'm half— not half Latvian, half Spanish, but I'm Latvian, of course. A third, a third Spanish. Yeah, a third. I did spend a good amount in Spain also.

How did you end up in Spain? How did you sort of matriculate there? Was there a breakthrough moment, a camp, a tournament, or something that— gave you the chance to go play for Sevilla?

There was a scout agent that came by and was just looking for some young prospects back home in Latvia, recorded some of our games, and sent out the tape to different teams in Italy, Spain, and so on. And then one team in Italy, then the national team coach who was in Riga, was interested in seeing me in the summer. And then Sevilla. Barcelona and Madrid were not interested in me. I was not that type of, like, they didn't see that type of talent. I don't want to mention those specific teams, just saying the big teams, you know?

The bigger teams, yeah.

So Sevilla was an option, and then, so I did Sevilla first, a tryout. Then I had the Riga camp with the national team coach. And in that camp, after that camp, I had to go to Italy. To see if that's another option. And in the Latvian camp, I was doing boxing and I fractured my hand, so I didn't— the Italy option was out. I didn't go to the tryout, nothing. So I only had Spain and staying back home. And I went to Spain for the tryout. It was so hot. I was skinny like a 14-year-old kid. My conditioning was terrible in that kind of weather and that kind of heat. My tryouts were so-so. I saw the dorms, I said, "No chance I'm coming back here. No way." But then as the summer went on, I was like, "Ah." My brother was talking to me, "Look, they have an ACB team. You could maybe one day play at that level." And I was like, "Okay." I started to put it in my head, and at the end, boom, made the decision to go there and spend 5 years there. Completely like fell in love with the city, like everything, learned Spanish in 6 months. And, and, and that's like, yeah, like I pretty much grew up there.

I was thinking about the culture shock initially, but then I just realized there was also a weather shock, like an actual climate shock for you.

Oh my God.

Wait, what? I have a question though.

What were you guys like, bare-knuckle boxing in training camp?

No, no, we were doing sparring.

With gloves on.

With gloves on.

Helmets on?

Good question. I don't think so. I don't think so.

Your sort of growth there in Spain, when did you sort of realize that you weren't just going to be an ACB player and that you were a real NBA prospect?

That was at— So I realized that I think when I was like 17, 18, it was the under-18 European championship. You know, it was always like a dream for me to play in the NBA, but realistically I was like, I don't, you know, who gets there? Like nobody gets there. But then when I was 17, I like, my conditioning got a lot better. So when I was actually 15, like 16, I got to Spain. Food completely different, culture different, everything is completely different. I don't know Spanish, and I'm practicing, and I'm dead tired in every practice. I don't even start sweating, and I'm dead tired. I'm like, "Something's wrong. I can't be this weak." So, after about half a season that I was there, they figured out I had heavy anemia because of the food. I wasn't really eating in the dorms, and it was okay. So, once I got rid of that, started taking some vitamins, like, immediately, day by day, I was just feeling so much better. And so once that cleared up, I really started to take off as a player and also just personality-wise. I was like, okay, I opened up big time because I was like, this is how I'm supposed to feel, you know? And then, yes, '16, '17, I kept improving so much during those years. And then we had the under-18 European Championship. I think, I don't know, I averaged like 5 blocks a game or something. And, you know, I took off physically compared to how I was like 15, 16 years old.

Yeah.

And that's when I was like, that's when a lot of interest started like coming around and a lot of scouts the next season started to come to our practices and stuff. I was like, okay, probably gonna be there. I don't know if next year, but probably the year after that.

Did you top out then? Is that when you topped out at 7'2"?

Uh.

At 18?

Um.

Did you keep growing?

I think I kept growing maybe, maybe up until draft, maybe even the year after draft. I was like about 21 years old, like, man, is this gonna ever stop? Stop. Like, this was wild.

Uh, did you know you were gonna go to the Knicks on draft night?

Yes.

You did?

Yeah.

Were you shocked that you were booed?

No, they told me it was gonna happen.

They told you?

Yeah, they did. Yeah, we're like, ah, you know, if the Knicks actually pick you, you know, it might happen. And it did happen.

I was, uh, looking through the picks after you, um, from 5 through 12. I'm not sure who they wanted Devin Booker was the next really good player. He was 13.

At that time, like, Justise Winslow was like, you know, like a big name. And there were some other guys. Moody was— I think he played in China before that. So he had like some hype that, you know, he already played pro. So there was some guys for sure.

Have you ever seen the Tingus Pingus viral video?

Yeah, I have. Yeah, of course.

Do you remember the first time you watched it?

I think probably that day on draft night. That day.

Yeah, draft night. Richie showed it to me this morning. It's the first time I've ever seen it. Classic. No, it's classic. Yeah.

Yeah, it's—

Who the fuck is Tingus Pinkus?

Oh, man.

That culture shock we're talking about with going from Latvia to Spain, what was the biggest adjustment? As a 19-year-old going from Spain to New York City, playing for arguably one of the most important franchises in all sports in the US, despite the fact they haven't won anything since the 1970s. I'm sorry, I'm just speaking facts here, Knicks fans. Biggest city, massive place. What were some of the early sort of eye-openers for you?

Honestly, I came in very prepared. My English was good. I was already kind of in my mind, like, for a couple of years thinking, "Oh, I'm going to the NBA." Like, "I want to, you know, listen to the music, like, learn everything I can about the culture," you know? So, I was pretty already— and the year before that, we had Scott Roth as a coach in Sevilla, so practices were kind of NBA-type practices, and the, like, words he was using was, like, it was all pretty easy for me to pick up my first rookie year. So I was pretty prepared, I would say. Ah, you know what, like, um, coming in so young too, I was like so ignorant. Like, I didn't care about nothing, you know? And it's—

it, it was—

I didn't care if I was in New York or somewhere else.

Like, I wouldn't know, you know what I mean? When you were getting drafted, it didn't matter.

Yeah, no, I was just like— I think I didn't realize like the magnitude of like getting drafted by the Knicks. Like, being in New York City, playing at Garden. I didn't even realize like what that was at that time. I was just—

You just represented the NBA.

I was just, boom, I'm in the NBA. That's it. You know what I mean? Like—

Could have been Indianapolis. It wouldn't have mattered.

Yeah, that's right. You know, as I got older, that's when I was like, okay, New York, that's, you know, getting drafted by the Knicks and being in New York, it's a big deal.

The term unicorn became a big part of the NBA Lexicon for 3 or 4 years. And apparently you were the first unicorn because Kevin Durant, after a game when he was in Oklahoma City, referred to you as a unicorn. It just kind of took off. Did you embrace that moniker? Did you feel good about that? It then got used on a bunch of different guys, but did that at all add to any pressure? That already existed?

No, it didn't add any pressure. Honestly, at first I didn't even like it. I was like, I don't know, I didn't like it. I didn't love it, let's say. But yes, as time went on and I kind of realized what he meant by that, then I started to enjoy it. Not enjoy it, I started to like it a bit more. And yeah, now there's a lot of unicorns out there.

Yeah, Wemby's one of them.

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You know, when you look back on your time in New York, And again, I think the context is important here of being a 19-year-old coming to the United States, playing for the Knicks, all that stuff. Your rookie year, you had Derek Fisher for a little bit, then Kurt Rambis. Phil was the front office guy. Then you had Jeff Hornacek. Phil left after that year. Steve Mills then took over. Made the All-Star Game your third year. You get hurt. Sit out the next year, David Fisdale was the coach. You know, there's a ton of changeover. We talk all the time just about how young players can only be as successful as sort of the infrastructure within the organization and the continuity and the support system around them. How were you able to sort of navigate all of the change, the pressure? Like, did you just have blinders on?

Did you just not give a fuck?

Like, really, I mean— Yeah. It's actually looking back sort of remarkable.

Yeah, again, like it was kind of the same thing. Like I was just so young, I didn't have a care in the world. Like whatever was happening around me, I was like, "Oh, okay, this is the NBA. Like, all right, cool." Like it just keeps on going. But honestly, looking back now, it wasn't the most stable situation, you know? Coaching changes and different team every year. And then Melo was not there for my third year anymore. Yeah, then I got hurt and there's a lot of stuff that happened in that 3.5-year span. But at that time, again, I was young and I was just kind of going with the flow, like whatever happens.

What actually happened in that meeting with the Knicks in late January during your 4th year? You're sitting out the year, you didn't sign the extension. It felt abrupt. I mean, I was still in the league then. It felt abrupt. It was like, oh shit, they just traded Porzingis. Like, I thought he was the cornerstone of that franchise. It seemed like that maybe happened quickly, maybe it didn't.

There was a lot of things that happened prior to that date, that meeting, you know. I got hurt, I brought in my own guy to do the rehab. And the team didn't like it. There was no communication, no good communication between us. Yeah, it's again, I would have to even like go back and think about all the stuff that happened. It's again, it's a mix of many things that just went on and yeah, and towards the end it kind of felt like, okay, this is, what it's going to be, you know. I don't know if— because when you're hurt, you're not— at least I felt like you're not valued, you're not showing anything at that moment, you know. So you're like, okay. And then time went on, time went on, and we had the meeting and we said our part, kind of preparing to ask for a trade. But I wish we never did.

Really?

Yeah, but in a sense, like, the trade was already— they were gonna trade me anyway, you know? It's just that we went in and asked for a trade, and then, like, 2 minutes later, I was traded already. It was already happening, you know? It was just so they could say, "Oh, he asked for a trade," and boom, that's it, he didn't wanna be here. It was many things that led to that.

Did they offer you an extension at all, anything?

There was some talk. There was some talk.

Yeah.

There was some talk, for sure. Again, if I could go back and do it all differently, I would. I would do many things differently, just based off of my personality. But at that time, we did it a certain way, and that's how it ended, that story. But again, it's many things that happened, many things that happened that led to that. And yeah, that's how my career went.

I know, well, it's just, it's wild to think about all the what-ifs from your career, right? I mean, you can go back, I mean, I think about my own career, free agency decisions, injuries, certainly play a part in your sort of story. You think back to dumb shit. I think back all the time to dumb shit I did when I was young. And I think what I realize, and I think you're at this point too, is not many players in the NBA's careers are this very linear, smooth thing. There's a lot of ups and downs and you're dealing with a lot of shit. Meanwhile, you sort of have this responsibility to always be improving, always be working towards mastering your craft. And as you get older and older, it becomes, I think, more solely just about winning. And so for you to be here now in Boston, what does this opportunity mean to you with everything you've been through in your career?

It's huge. I think I think it's, of course, it's a big challenge, you know, just to be in this kind of market and now with, you know, possibly going far in the playoffs with this kind of team. Big challenge, big responsibility, but it's a risk that I wanted. I want to take and I want to, you know, possibly do something big. Yeah, everybody loves a winner, you know? So I want to win. I want to win. And I could possibly make it all look—

Yeah, that reputation thing we were talking about earlier. If you go and help them win a championship—

Yeah, for sure.

You're goated then.

You're goated.

You'll never have to pay for a thing in Boston again. Anybody who watches the podcast, anybody who follows the podcast knows how much I dearly love Derek White as a basketball player. Did you realize he was this good before you played with him?

I did not. I did not, no. I did not, man. He's a— we had like a meeting the other day, and Joe have always these kind of like team development things that we do, and we had to say one thing you love about your teammate, one thing that drives you crazy, and, you know, and some couple other things. And I said to D. White, I said, "What I love about you is like how you're always making the right play for us." And because of that, I hold you, and I think all of us hold you to such a high standard that it drives me crazy when you don't. You know, it's like he's so good, he's always making the right play, making the right read, that man, I just always expect that from him. And he's very underrated. I don't know this, I heard there was a lot of talk about this top 100. Like, it's insane how he's not in the top 100. It's, it's completely insane. But, uh, but I think he will, you know, he's already proving it and, you know, it's only a matter of time.

Derek doesn't strike me as the type of guy that's really worried about it. Yes, he doesn't probably.

Yeah, he probably doesn't care.

No, I, I, I caught a lot of flack because I went on a rant, uh, when he wasn't named top one.

I hate those fucking polls so much.

I really truly hate them. They're so dumb. And by the way, there is like, and I mean this, there's like in a given year, 5 or 6 guys that are like head and shoulders above everybody. I think you can make an argument now there's 8 to 10, whatever you want to call it. The guys like 15 to 55, like they're not necessarily interchangeable, but like depending on fit and situation and teammates and coach, like there's not that big of a margin. And I got flack because I said Derek White has more of a case to be a top 50 player.

And people get so caught up in counting stats.

I'm like, no, just go watch the Celtics play and watch this motherfucker lock down, chase down blocks, offensive rebounds, swing, even just a simple swing pass that's on time, on target. He just consistently does that over and over. Yeah. It's not sexy.

It's not sexy.

People like sexy. That's the thing.

And he's just so good.

What's his personality like, like as a teammate?

He seems quiet.

No, he's always joking around. He's like, yeah, he has a fun personality. He's real cool and chill. But he's always messing around. And yeah, you can definitely hear his voice in the locker room, yeah.

The guy that I, assume you knew was good coming here is Jason Tatum. And it seems like he really has embraced being the face, the guy, embraced the responsibility, the good and the bad, and all the stuff that comes with that. Mm-hmm. Just being around him now every day, what are some things that have really stood out about him as a player, a leader?

Teammate? No, one thing I love about him, how like stoic he always is, you know what I mean? He's always just boom. He's never like too high, too low. Always like his emotions are under control. He's also like the type of guy that's always like trying to make the right play. And a lot of times it's him attacking, him shooting, of course, for us, you know. But he's always like, he has the right character for the game. To lead a team to win it all. You know, he has that, he has it, you know. And yeah, he's from, so far from what I've seen, he's great locker room, great with everybody in the organization, and he has the right character.

KP, happy for you. Thanks for sitting down with us. I have no vested interest. In the NBA. I truly don't. I am a fan of basketball, but I always, uh, root for my guys, and, uh, I'm, I'm rooting for you, man. I hope you have a great season.

Appreciate it. Appreciate that, JJ.

Oh, thank you, bud.