How Chenell Basilio Reverse-Engineered 40K Newsletter Subscribers

Most of the growth levers I've seen sustainably work over time just come off the back of collaboration. This stuff is so hard to do on your own. And if you can find other people to collaborate with on the growth side or even just like, talk through the bad times, the good times, like, it's going to make a huge difference.

We are going to talk to my friend Chanel, and Chanel is a hero to me in a lot of ways. Because Chanel didn't wait around to have a mentor who's been there before. She didn't wait around to have somebody tell her exactly what to do. She has been spending the last several years reverse engineering some of the most successful creators and what they've done to grow their audience and their newsletter. Chanel is the founder of Growth in Reverse, one of my favorite newsletters and one of the most popular newsletters in the creator economy. So excited to welcome Chanel to the main stage today and excited to have a conversation. Chanel, welcome.

Hi, Darrell. That was way too kind of you to say all of that. Thank you so much.

Way too kind. It's just the truth. I only speak the trut.

Okay, I'll take your word for it.

Okay, so tell. Tell us a little bit more about. From your perspective. Tell us a little bit about Growth in Reverse. I want to hear the origin story, a little bit of it, because I think it's so inspiring that you basically were just like, how does this work? And you just started reverse engineering a bunch of successful creators. So tell me more about it.

Yeah, sure. So I actually left my day job back in 2017, and at the time, I was helping online course creators and other folks online build their businesses through Facebook and Google Ads. And so I was doing that for a few years. Covid hit, my business boomed. I was doing super, super well, to the point where I took on way too much work and ended up burning out really hard. So I was kind of. After that, I was like, I don't want to do services anymore. I'm not sure what I want to do. But I kind of was just like, on the Internet, I was always interested in stuff like this. And then I found this guy named Mario Gabrielli, and he writes a newsletter called the Generalist. And I've saw a post that he had written where he said that in his first year as a newsletter writer, he was making $300,000 by himself. And I was like, hold on, wait, what? A newsletter making 300 grand? And so I am naturally a curious person. So I was like, okay, how did he do this? I have some experience in the online space. I went back, I listened to all the interviews he. He had done and went through all of his posts and his tweets and everything, and I put together, like, probably 50 to 60 hours of research into this long form article. And I was like, you know what? He wrote a newsletter. I wonder if other people would be interested in reading this. Like, why don't I send this out as a newsletter? That first issue went out to three people. Well, four. One was myself, my own email address. That was back in December of 2022. And since then, I just kind of kept going with this whole newsletter growth thing, and now we're at about 40,000 subscribers. So it's been a journey, but it's been a fun one.

How did you decide the topic of the newsletter? How did you decide that this is the newsletter that you would get really excited about doing for a long period of time?

I didn't, to be honest with you. I just started and I was like, you know what? This is super fascinating. I don't know if I'll do another one of these, but I really enjoyed the process. And it was cool to learn about how this guy GRE through a newsletter. And then people started eating it up. Like, I shared, I think I posted a thread on Twitter and like, you know, six people liked it or something, and I was like, that's pretty good. And then thankfully, Jay Clouse was one of my early subscribers, and he ended up sharing it out in his newsletter, and I got to, like, 55 subscribers. And I was like, all right, I'm just going to keep going with this. And so every week from there, I wrote another deep dive. And they took like 30 to 40 hours each one to write, so it was a lot. But I'm. I don't know, it was just fun, so I enjoyed it.

30 to 40 hours to write a new letter.

Yeah. Yeah. So I would go on these long walks and listen to podcast episodes and. And figure out how people grew their newsletters.

That's so crazy to me. How. Okay, so I want to. I want to tap into that, because you're not making any money from the newsletter. You've got 55 subscribers and you're spending 30 to 40 hours doing it. Like. Like that. That equation doesn't make sense in my head. Tell me, like, how it made sense to you and why you decided to commit in that direction.

It wasn't logical, I will say that. But I was enjoying it. And, like, coming from this place of Extreme burnout. I was like, I'm just gonna follow what I'm enjoying right now. And, like, thankfully, my business had done well, so I had probably a few months of savings saved up. So I was like, okay, I'm just gonna see what happens here. And I'm somebody who, like, picks up hobbies and drops them like, three months later. So I didn't know if this was gonna last, but I was like, you know what? I. I'm gonna. I'm gonna try it out and see what happens. And I just kept going with it. There wasn't, like, this strategy. Like, I didn't stop at any point and be like, should I continue doing this because it's a good business? Like, I just did it.

What kept you going then? So if you didn't, like, stop and be like, okay, well, this is working well, like, what kept you going? Because, hey, that's a huge commitment. Like, just. Most people don't even work, like, do real work for 30 hours a week. They're, like, scrolling on Instagram or Facebook most of the time anyways. But, like, how do you decide to do that when you're not making money yet? Like, what was the. Like, what was, like pulling you forward still in the midst of all that?

Yeah, I was just having fun. Like, I was honestly genuinely having fun with it and being able to combine, like, my natural curiosity with something people could read and enjoy themselves on the Internet. Like, I thought that was super cool, and so I just kept going with it.

That's so fun. It's so fun. I didn't even realize that you were spending that much time on a newsletter. Otherwise, we would have maybe called this how to spend 30 hours writing a Newsletter Session. That's so inspiring to me. Rick. Rick said something here in the comment, and Rick is a legend in the Creator Summit world. But Rick said, the power of doing something you're passionate about or something that you really enjoy, I think is totally underrated. I think a lot of times people think about, like, well, is this a good business? Or can I make money doing this? And what they don't realize is that you can burn out really quickly if you don't actually enjoy the thing that you're doing along the way. And if you're going to create a business, you might as well do something you enjoy or that you're passionate about along the way, too.

Yeah, no, totally. And if I wasn't, I probably wouldn't have kept going with it, because I was. At that point, I just needed something fun to do. Like, I just needed to get out of my head from failing at my last business. So it worked out well.

And fun to you is 30 hours per newsletter. I love that. Where you and I maybe are a little bit different, which I love. Okay, so you started writing these newsletters, you were listening to podcasts, you go for long walks, you're reverse engineering other successful folks. When did you start making money? Or like, what was the inflection point of growth where you, like, woke up one day and you're like, this is actually going to work and I should keep doing this, not because I love it, but because this is actually going to turn into a business. It's actually going to work. Like, what was that moment for you?

That's a good question. I think I had seen enough people making money with newsletters that I was like, this could potentially be a thing. And then I. I think it was like 1100 subscribers in. So probably five months in, I had my first sponsor and I was like, okay, that's how I made money. I followed there's a guy named Josh Specter, and he actually had outlined this way that he gets subscribed or sponsors on JCloss's podcast. And I just followed that to a T. Essentially, like, add a spot at the top of your newsletter and say, like, hey, I'm thinking of, like, potentially adding a sponsor here. Like, are you interested? And then you can say, yes, no, maybe, and have people click the specific link of, like, their vote. Essentially, 98% of people said yes. One person maybe said no, and then the other people were like, yeah, I'd potentially be a sponsor. And so you actually have, like, this pipeline of potential sponsors before you even launch your sponsorships, which is kind of cool. So then I just went from there. And from there, all the sponsors have been inbound. Knowing Justin Moore's strategy now, it's probably not the best way to go about it, but it's worked out well in terms of sponsor.

So, yeah, that's great. Okay, so reverse engineering the most successful newsletters and how large creators are building their audience. This begs the question, what have you learned in the last couple of years about the people who are doing this at the highest level? What are some of the key takeaways or points that you've learned from them?

Yeah, so I think there's three things. The first one is something everybody hears all the time, but insanely valuable content. Like, I just. I've outlined this before. Everybody wants to gloss over it, but it is literally the thing that got me going. My content was unique. People really enjoyed it. So they were sharing it without me asking them to. If you don't have good content or something good to say something that's going to catch people's attention and like hook them really well, you're going to struggle. And I hate to say that, but it's true. Every other growth hack off the back of that either works or doesn't based on the level of the quality of your content.

So that is like foundational pillar, hence spending 30 hours.

But you don't have to necessarily. But yes, that is one way to stand out.

That begs the question, what, what, what qualifies as valuable content or what makes something valuable?

Yeah, so I. There's been like, over the years, people have had some version of this, but I think there are six things. So it's either you're helping someone save time, make money, save money, make them feel something. So whether that's like entertaining them, making them laugh, telling a great story, maybe even make them cry at some points. And then being able to, if you can combine multiples of those, like, that is where the gold is. So I took these long, deep dive articles. I'm like saving people time of having to go through and research the whole thing themselves. But they're also learning something, which is the fifth one I didn't mention. And then I think those two are good. And it's also unique. So I don't know if you can combine multiples of those. That is really where the magic happens.

Okay, so say those again really quickly. It was feel something.

Yeah. So it is make money, make money, save money, save time, make them feel something, teach them something, or speed to market. Which is just like you are the first one to talk about this thing. Now, a lot of people tend to try and do that last one by itself. I don't think that works. If you're not going to help them with any of the other ones. Like, it's still going to fall flat. So I think you need to combine multiples of those.

Yeah, that's really good. Super, super clear. That was the number one question. People are like, okay, so what is valuable content? Again, I'm going to say this probably in every single session today. It's like this is where empathy becomes a superpower again. It's like, I think something that I often think about, Chanel is like, does this even jump over the bar of something that you would read? And I can't tell you the number of creators who I know are sending newsletters that they wouldn't even read. Themselves. So why are you sending it out if you wouldn't even read it yourself? Why are you sending it out to a bunch of other people? It's like, that has to be like a framework of like, is this even interesting to me? Would I even read this? Would I be interested in this?

Totally.

And I think that's a super huge. It's actually the lowest bar you possibly could set for yourself even before you kind of get into that framework. Make money, save money, save time, make them feel something, teach them something, or speed to market. I think that's super, super key and.

I think what you just said is key as well. Like, if you're, if you're bored with your own content, like, it comes through so obviously on the other side of the computer screen, like, everyone else is going to know your board, they're going to stop reading it. And the whole name of this game is trust. Like, if you have built trust and then you all of a sudden just like deplete it, that is really hard to gain back. So please take the time and focus on this stuff. It is the most important thing above growth tactics, I will say, because again, it just makes everything else work better.

Okay, so interesting. Contents. Thing 1. What else have you learned from the most successful newsletters?

They're part of communities or they've built relationships. And I'm not just saying that because this is like a mighty thing. This is probably the. One of the other keys to the whole thing is like, you have found your group of people. You are talking every week, you are sharing ideas. You're just like being empathetic towards the other person's journey. Like, this stuff is so hard to do on your own. And if you can find other people to collaborate with on the growth side or even just like talk through the bad times, the good times, like it's going to make a huge difference. But collaborations are a huge part of growth.

How have you done that? Okay, first of all, I just saw you two weeks ago in Idaho.

Yes.

And so, like, I know that you like go to events and I've met you at events before, but like, how are you actually building those relationships and building that community?

Yeah. So before I actually started this newsletter, I was in Jay Clouse's lab. I'm still in his lab community, which he had an in real life event on the front of Crafting Commerce. So that was fun. It was like two events in one. Um, so I was part of that, which is great. But honestly, I was just lurking. I. I didn't have anything that I felt worth sharing. But I knew Jay's content was good. I trusted him, so I joined. Um, so that was, like, a big piece of it. And even now, like, I am in a mastermind with five other people that I met through Jay's community, and we've been in the same group for probably two years now. So masterminds are a big piece that too. So that was, like, the beginning of my community journey, if you will. And since then, I've just, like, started reaching out to other folks. Like, I met Caitlin Burgoyne because I replied to her newsletter, and then, you know, she followed me on Twitter. And then we've just, like, had this relationship now. It's, like, really cool to see. So it's just the small things that you don't see that might happen in the DMs or something like that.

Yeah, yeah, that's great. We have something exciting to talk about with the masterminds thing that I'll share on the last day. So this is going to be like a cliffhanger a little bit, but we're going to talk more about masterminds here in a little bit because we are going to be a part of helping people find masterminds. Mike just asked, where do you find masterminds? And we've got some news on that front coming soon. Okay, so finding your community, creating incredible content. What. What else? What are. What are the secrets? Tell us all the secrets of the. The best newsletters out there.

Yeah, so still on that second piece with the relationships, I think most of the growth levers I've seen sustainably work over time just come off the back of collaboration. So whether it's putting together a summit like this, or you're doing a cross promotion and you're sharing each other's work in their newsletters, or you're doing, like a podcast guesting, or you're writing a guest post, like, that's still a version of collaborations. And I think those are, like, the backbone of a lot of newsletter growth. So I think that's a big piece of it.

Yeah, I've seen that be true as well. The folks who I've known who have built their brands or their newsletters just buying ads or buying their subscribers, they're never as powerful as the ones that are built in collaboration with other creators or with other people. And I think that's really key and, like, secret. This kind of event is the kind of event where you can do collaborations really easily. It's part of the reason that we do it. So this is like us practicing what we talk about a little bit, creating collaborations this way as well.

And you can get really creative with them. Like, I recently did a 30 days of growth where I did 30 collaborations in 30 days. And so every, every day I asked or I had a new creator come in and share like one of their biggest growth tactics. And so I would share that out to this like, pop up daily newsletter that I launched. It was kind of like a summit, but as a newsletter, if you will.

And then, by the way, this has always existed. When I was blogging in like 2004, 7, 8, 9, we used to do this thing where it's like we would repost each other's blog posts on our sites. And this is like collaboration. And this type of thing is massive. And if you think about it, if you just like break it down to its like lowest common denominator, it's. There's an audience of people who I know are already engaged, who are not my audience. And if we can like tell each other about each other or tell our audiences about each other, like, these are people who are already engaged, they're already subscribed, especially in the same medium. And so they're going to be highly qualified to be engaging in my content if it's complementary or if it's similar but not exactly the same. And that makes a lot of sense. It just makes sense. If I'm just posting out an ad on YouTube or Facebook or Instagram. That person's random and they weren't even necessarily searching for what I was talking about. I just interrupted their day and in the middle of their feed and then they showed up. And so I think collaboration is a massive part of success of your newsletter.

Yeah. And I think.