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Get ready to find your recipe for a successful real estate lifestyle from America's top experts here at Greenlight REI with your host, Lance Edwards. Well, hi everyone. Welcome to this edition of Greenlight REI where you here to learn about successful real estate lifestyle. We've got a very, very special guest today. You know everybody. Well, a lot of people when you get involved in apartments, they always talk about generational wealth, perpetual wealth, legacy. Well, how about this today for our special guest, it's Kim Butler who number other things, is author of this book, Perpetual Wealth. So she hit the headlines, got the title right. Nail on the head, Kim. On that perpetual wealth, we talked about this, but more specifically we're talking about the intersection of how whole life insurance intersects with real estate investing and how whole life insurance combined with apartments is like a dynamic duo. Matter of fact, I use the same strategy, so I wanted to bring Kim. So Kim, welcome to the podcast.

Thank you, Lance. Always a joy. And I love coming out of left field with whole life insurance and real estate. But they really are amazingly similar assets and they work so well together.

Well, we're going to be talking about that, but I got to, I got it. First of all, I've already teased everybody with so perpetual wealth. What is, what does perpetual wealth mean? You got a whole book to do it, but how would you describe it?

Let's summarize that 200 plus page book. So the perpetual wealth idea is developing assets that can go from generation to generation and also acknowledging all the aspects of our human beingness and that is not about money. And so when we use the word wealth, most often people immediately just think about money. But there's so much about our learning about our values, about family traditions that we want to be passed on to the next generation and the next generation. And so inside the Perpetual wealth book, we talk about some financial aspects of passing money on and moving money. And this is not for like super super wealthy people. This is for your everyday family. And then we also talk about a lot of non monetary assets and things like family retreats and traditions and family crests and letters from grandparents to grandchildren that can all be a part of that perpetual wealth that the family is not only generating but then working with together to get from generation to generation to generation. And it's always a joy that I have a lot of clients where we're serving three or four generations.

What you're describing is so out of the norm from how we're, at least how I was raised, I think how most people are raised. So are you, are you having to do some myth busting in here? Are you having to certainly change some mindset?

It would seem to me, yes, always. And I have a whole bunch of other books on Amazon that go under the name Busting the Lies. So whether it's life insurance lies or real estate investing lies or retirement lies, you name it, there is so much around money in particular that is just not known about in our society or worse, has massive amounts of misinformation. And so, yes, we're busting myths, busting lies all the time. And thankfully my husband is an analytical guru. And so I'm the conceptual person and you know, like all or most relationships, opposites attract. So in all of my work, I can prove the concepts numerically. And I think that's really critical because a lot of times you'll hear about stuff out there on the Internet or from a friend and it's a theory, but it doesn't have numerical or financial or mnemonic proof. And so I've got both. I've got the concepts and the stories combined with the numerical proof.

And everyone, I'll tell you, I'll give you a little, another little teaser. Kim's got a gift for you at the end here. So hang on. Because she's got some additional tools to make these points to you. But this, I've seen the math. I've seen the math. And you won't really want to pay attention over here. Okay, so we got. Thank you for that 200 word summary of a 200 page book of perpetual wealth. Much appreciated. But that was very good. But it's, I mean, it's, it's very captivating. Is that the idea that, you know, I just, I don't, I think it's a totally unique notion. Most of the time, most families are just trying to get by. The children really don't pick up much or they pick up the wrong habits. And so you're actually reversing that. Reversing that. All right, so, so now I want to ask about. We're talking about real estate. We're talking about whole life insurance before I get into life insurance. People listening here, a lot of real estate people. So I know you have a background in real estate. Maybe ought to give us your, give us your credentials around real estate, then we're going to dive into the life insurance side of it.

Sounds great. So I have been involved in real estate investing since basically graduating from college. It was a direct interest of our families. At the time. We lived in Phoenix, Arizona and we did a lot of Learning and research and investing in apartment buildings primarily, but also a lot of other types of investment real estate. And then because of that, our own personal interests that acquired clients that were on the more paper assets space for me. And so that's always been an area of specialty. I had paper asset clients that got invested in real estate and I had investment real estate clients that got involved in the paper asset side. And so it's just been something that's grown over time. And then fast forwarding a really fun story. We got involved in some investment real estate here in Texas when I moved and made a shift in life. And we realized that it wasn't right for us anymore, like just the way our life was and what we wanted to focus on at the time. And the straw broke the camel's back one time when I got a call from the police department about our apartment building and I had to drive over there because the manager was out of town and they asked me to move the car back and get below on the floor because they had to go into an apartment with guns drawn. And I said that's it, I'm out. It doesn't make sense anymore for us.

All right. But your son has been active in real estate, you told me as well.

Yes. And this has been so fun. So talk about perpetual wealth, right? He learned about the investment real estate space, he learned about the life insurance space, he learned how to put the two together. And as a 23 year old college graduate with a job, he started buying four plexes and he has accumulated quite a few doors that he manages and he's loving the space. And one of the calculators that my husband creates is a real estate investment calculator.

So.

So my son's gotten very skilled at using that. He's helping some of his friends understand the value of home buying, the value of investment buying, the value of maybe let's not fund that 401k to the max level. Maybe let's only fund it to the match level and take those other dollars to create other assets for you that you control. So it is such a joy. And my daughter, really same thing. Lots of interest in the investment real estate space. It just kind of comes with the family.

Great job, mom. I mean, 23 youngsters start small apartments. I love it. So true. Song singing my song. All right, okay, so we got the real estate. Now we're going to let's get into whole life insurance. And I think perhaps first, Kim, I think a lot of people are familiar with term life insurance. We're taught that from day one. You know, get, go get term, go buy term. Explain, I guess explain the difference between whole life versus term. And then we'll build from there into how it's such a great resource on its own, but even more powerful when you combine it with real estate, perhaps.

So absolutely, yeah, that's no fine. The term insurance is life insurance that exists for a term of time, usually 15 years or 30 years or something like that, and, and is super, super valuable. And I think one of the mistakes that a lot of whole life friendly agents make is they're all about the whole life and they speak about term in a negative way and that's not accurate at all. I really want people to have both because each human being has an economic value. It's actually called human life value. And it's a function of income and it's usually around 20 to 30 times income. It can also be 1 times gross worth. And I have a great real estate story to tell you about that. We'll do that in a minute. So most people cannot buy their human life value in whole life. They're just, that's too big of a step. So term insurance, a very, very important product, yet it is an expense. And so at some point earlier for some, later for others, we want to convert our expenses into assets. And the way to do that is to convert or switch or change up the term insurance part of it to this product called whole life. Now this has been in our world for about 600 years. It was started in Europe and kind of depending on what you choose as its starting point, has always.

It's a fad. You're telling me, Kim, whole life is a fad?

Yeah. And sometimes I've heard it's a scam. And I'm not quite sure how a scam can stick around for 600 years. Nevertheless, let's do be clear that what we're not talking about is universal life. And there's a whole bunch of hybrids, index universal life, variable, universal life, fixed, universal life, da da da da, universal life. We're talking about term insurance, which I'm a huge fan of and think people should have a lot of, and whole life insurance, which is this ancient product and the value that it can work with your existing assets and become an asset for you. So that's the goal posts.

All right, it's good. So great starting point. So. So one thing you kind of indicated, whole life insurance is a different price point than term life insurance. The tractor for term life insurance is very low cost insurance. Yeah. Whole life costs more, but it's building an asset. It's not just an expense throwaway insurance. So maybe not a start building into the value of whole life, how whole life insurance works. And they'll even roll in from there into how you can use it to acquire real estate.

Yeah, absolutely. So whole life insurance has the coverage that's called the death benefit, that's paid when death occurs, just like term insurance does. It's designed to be there for your whole life, which is why it's called that. And it has another component and it's called cash value. And it functions on your balance sheet like a savings account. I like to call it your emergency slash opportunity fund. Because as you contribute to whole life, so you're paying premiums, you're adding maybe paid up additions, which is a fancy word for saying extra money. You're building this asset called cash value. And it can exist on your personal balance sheet, it can exist on an LLC's balance sheet, and that is your emergency opportunity fund. It lets you solve emergencies and take advantage of opportunities. And it's very, very important that we do not refer to it as an investment. Real estate is an investment. Stocks are an investment. Businesses are an investment. Whole life insurance is a place to store cash. It is your savings account equivalent, your money market equivalent. I know people talk about it like it's a retirement plan equivalent. I'm not a fan of that kind of thinking. Not that it can't, but it is a place to store cash. And as we know, every good real estate investor has a place to store cash to solve emergencies and take advantage of opportunities. Emergencies like your entire apartment building needs a new roof or a new parking lot. Opportunities like, hey, if you can make a down payment on this deal, you can get it maybe before it comes on the market or something like that. And so your good real estate investors that have been around longer than 30 days have cash and they want to store that cash in the most efficient place possible. And that's the whole life product.

Let's talk. So it's very efficient. It's also very tax advantaged. Right? Maybe. Let's. Let's talk. So you have this cash value to this whole life. So that's where the asset is. There's a cash value that you can draw upon whenever you want it. Talk about a little bit you would, Kim, the tax advantages. What makes such a tax advantaged place for your cash.

So whole Life, the product is held in what's called a mutual life insurance company. So think about like Northwestern Mutual Guardian Mutual, Mass Mutual, New York Life. There's a variety of, there's probably about 20 different mutual companies and that means that you are an owner of that company. These are not public companies. You cannot buy stock in them because of that. And the laws surrounding the life insurance death benefit, which the product actually existed before the tax laws came to play. And just like any other insurance, the benefit is tax free because it is replacing something. So if you have a $50,000 car and you insure it for $50,000, which you would want to do, and that car gets totaled, you get $50,000 because it's replacing that asset. So the life insurance death benefit is income tax free because it is replacing the asset, a human being that was getting up and going to work every day, either in a paid for environment or serving in the home, which is still a paid for environment. Just no money changes hands. So that's an important aspect of it. Now the underlying cash value grows without taxes because it's supporting that higher death benefit amount. Death benefits, cash paid at death. Cash value is cash used while living. And notice the product is called life insurance. Right. It's not called death insurance. Now I'll admit term insurance should be called death insurance. But I want to lay out one other super quick fact before we go on and that is that the growth of the cash value again without taxes in today's world is going to be about four, four and a half percent depending on age. So let's maybe say three and a half to four and a half to be safe. That is two or three times what bank rates are paying on liquid dollars right now. And in my entire career and I've been working with the product almost 30 years, it's always been two or three points above bank rates. So not only do you have a higher rate that the value is growing, it's not taxed, which means it's even higher. And that is one of the reasons it's so efficient of a place to store cash.

So let me recap that for everybody. So you're paying premiums, you're paying your insurance premiums and part of that goes to provide your insurance. Part of that is going basically this is my simplistic way of park is going to a cash value. You're building up a cash value. It's a growing with no taxes, no, no tax against it. And even when you take a withdrawal, there's no tax on withdrawal. Well, that's correct.

True, correct. So just like real estate, you can withdraw up to your basis without any tax and then what most people do is they flip to loans. And this is another example of the way the cash value works so similarly to real estate and that you can borrow against it and the cash value keeps on growing unaffected by the loan, just like real estate keeps on growing unaffected by the loan. And that loan is tax free. Just like real estate loans, when the money comes into you are also tax free.

All right, let me recap that one. So you guys know that in real estate I've got all this equity in my apartment building. I can go refinance, harvest that equity, take it out as cash. That is not a taxable event. That is tax free, just a loan. Same thing with the whole life insurance policy. You can borrow against your cash value. It keeps growing, you know, independent of the amount you took out.

Right.

And you take this cash and maybe use a down payment to apartment building. So now you're double dipping on the same dollar bill on the same dollar. Am I saying that all correct?

Yes, you said everything correctly. I'm just going to change one word, and it is an important word because it's what CA causes confusion out in the marketplace and that is that you're not removing the money, you're not taking the money out. You're not, there's some language, you know, borrowing against yourself that's kind of confusing. You are borrowing against your cash value. So if you have $100,000 of cash value and you get a loan for 60,000 to go make a down payment on a deal, your cash value still grows at 100,000 and the loan is the 60,000. And those are two separate things. And the loan is against the cash cash value, just like a loan is against the asset of a real estate deal.

So in that example, you had 100,000 cash value, I borrowed 60,000 against it. I still have 100,000 that is still growing based upon 100,000. The 60,000 is now put to work for its own cash on cash return for its own yields. Independent.

Right, and you brought up a really important point there because there are mistakes made by the YouTubers in comparing the rate on the loan, which is usually around 5 or 6% to the growth of the cash value, which is that three and a half to four. That's the wrong comparison. What we want to compare is the rate on the loan. Let's just say it's six to the apartment buildings deal rate. Let's just say it's 12. So I'm not talking about a cap rate, I'm talking about the cash on cash rate. Of return that you get on that particular apartment building. So if you can borrow at 6 and invest at 12, I think people would do that all day long. I mean that's literally a doubling of that money. Then the life insurance cash value growing at let's just say four. We compare that to the bank account at one taxable or even two taxable, it's still a big improvement. And so the cash is compared to cash and the loan is compared to what you invested in in that opportunity that you take advantage of.

Right. And with apartments there's not only, there's not only the cash on cash return, but there's the, the equity you're creating, there's the paying down the mortgage which if I were to do another little podcast here, I'd show you that be 30 plus percent over five years. So per year. So all right, so, so we've got whole life insurance. We have like it also is protecting our family through the life. The death benefit is also a, a cash value vehicle that we can draw upon for anything. Buy apartments, whatever you need to do. So why aren't more people doing whole life insurance?

Kim Butler because it's the redheaded stepchild of the financial services industry or the black sheep or whatever you want to call it. And you know, it's interesting, people that are in your and my generation, many, many, many are affected by Dave Ramsey, Susie Ormond, you know, some of the financial personalities, if you will, that have a particular approach to life and finances that I'm going to say is somewhat scarcity based. And that generation got caught up in those financial personalities opinions note on life insurance. And it became literally a very negative thing, which is weird considering how long it's been around. But nevertheless, that is why a lot of people in our generation dislike it so much. I find that people in the next generation, so the people that are 20, 30, even maybe 40 years old, don't pay any attention to those financial personalities. Love the idea of investment, real estate, control, freedom, flexibility, opportunity. You know, these are very important words to them. And whole life insurance is very, I call it clue oriented. C, L U, E C for control, L for liquidity, U for use, use it whatever you want. And E for acts like equity. Just like real estate. Acts like equity. And so the people in the next generation are very focused on developing their lives around that clue acronym. And so the whole life product, actually, you know, you say why isn't everybody doing this? All of my clients are.

Yes, they are a minority of the population too, let's admit, because I can tell you for decades I bought term life insurance.

Sure.

When I was young, I read something buy term life insurance and I just a few years ago switched completely over to perm life insurance. Matter of fact, I just bought a 56 unit apartment building a few months ago using it exactly how Kim described. Because when you look at it, it's just a no brainer. I'm double dipping on the money as far as I'm concerned. But so I. So we have a lot of people just need to be educated about it, number one and, or get beyond a lot of the misperceptions that are put out there about it. But one thing about, let's talk about this Ken, because somebody's going to say yeah, but whole life insurance costs more money. You know, I can't afford whole life insurance. Can you address, you know, you got term insurance, whole life. Let's talk about the cost and the trade offs there, if you could.

Absolutely. So first I'll say that there are some families that should not buy whole life insurance if the cash flow is so, so tight that there just isn't room to save. By save as a verb, I mean then they should not buy whole life insurance. But for most families, if you take just a quick look at their finances, there's actually some monthly money available. And what I mean by monthly money is the extra that they're prepaying their mortgage with on their primary residence, the extra that they're frittering away with that, you know, you name it, close Starbucks, whatever the vice is, the extra that they're maybe throwing into the stock market or some kind of monthly place where they're just investing or saving. And I use those as two separate words on purpose, that is monthly money. Well, here's the challenge. You cannot buy real estate with monthly money. You need to have either relationships so you can get some no money down deals or you need to have money to put down. And so it's very helpful to have a place to build up cash monthly to then leverage up and go make a down payment on a deal to get the real estate done that is going to require a lump sum for that down payment. So in most cases, not all. Again, I reiterate, it's not for everybody, but in most cases, and especially the younger crowd, they can start life insurance with 500 bucks a month and just contribute to it. 500 bucks a month. There's no lump sum required to start. It's just a monthly money thing. And we actually are launching in just another couple weeks an app that will really drive this savings habit because that's all it is and it enables people to measure backwards. So most of financial planning is trying to measure forwards. But you know, from Dan Sullivan's Gap and Gain book. Right. If we can measure backwards, we'll get better results because we're measuring our progress. Well, our new app, and I'll alert you when it's ready and then you can share it with your community, is going to measure backwards and really generate that monthly money. Yahoo. I did it. You know, the. Oh my gosh, I'm actually building something here which then leverages up to do the real estate.

That's, that's, that's exciting by itself. I love that looking backwards, that gap versus gain analogy. That, that's ideal. All right, so whole life insurance is not for everyone. You know, you have money that you're either investing or saving. This is another place to put it, a very powerful place to put it. Another thing that may come up and there's no, I heard you say there's no minimum. There's no minimum that you need to get started with or anything like that. So literally anybody at any age could be doing this.

That's correct.

All right, so let's leave another question. Somebody may say, well, you know, I'm kind of, I'm old, I'm not insurable. I can't imagine be so expensive to try to insure me. I love this idea, Kim, of the whole life insurance insurance, but I'm uninsurable, I got to believe. How do you respond to that?

Absolutely. So first of all, the old. So usually up to about 75 or 80, it's very legitimate to purchase life insurance if there are some assets to work with. And again, I'll restate, it's not for everybody. You know, if you're living just on Social Security and you don't have anything else, then life insurance is not going to help in any form except for maybe some term insurance, which is fine. So with those that can save money but might not be approved from a health standpoint, a physical standpoint, you can purchase insurance on children, including adult children, as well as grandchildren, for what it's worth. Not on nieces and nephews unless you are in business with them. Well, how many families do you know that are getting the entire family involved in the investment real estate? Right. So if you're in partnership with somebody, including a niece or nephew or even somebody that's not a family member on a real estate deal, you have an insurable interest in that person. And so you could buy insurance on your partner for the real estate deal. So there's a lot of different ways that we can skin that cat, if you will, in terms of spouses, adult children, young grandchildren or young children, depending on where the person is. Partners and key employees even are options for you to purchase and own the life insurance on. So you would be the owner, you would be providing the premium dollars. They, whoever they are, would be the insured and it's literally their physical body that the insurance is on, but that cash value is on your balance sheet or the LLC's balance sheet that owns the real estate or what have you.

All right, so here's the strategy, everybody. She just told me the strategy. If you're on, if you're knocking on death's door and you want whole life insurance, go find a 1%, 19 year old, 1% of that apartment building and insure the 19 year old and you pay the premiums and you get the policy. I mean, did I hear that right, Kim?

Yeah, absolutely. It works all the time. In fact, my son that we mentioned earlier, he actually bought his own policy the day he turned 18, which is the day you can legally sign a contract. And so it absolutely can work that way. And you know, that's part of my job, is to personalize the results that they're trying to get. And most life insurance agents know how to do that.

Well, here's another opportunity for grandparents, you know, just been blessed with a new grandchild. They can ensure the baby's life and then have, you know, age 18. There's a fund there, nothing. There's a college fund and it's going to be very low cost premiums for a very young person, I imagine.

Absolutely. I have a grand niece, I believe we'd call her, and my sister bought insurance when she was about three months old. I bought insurance on my kids when they were 1 and 2. I did it again when they were 6 and 7. And then as I've indicated, they bought their own when they were 18. My daughter bought her first one when she was 22. She bought another one when she was 23. Her income went up pretty quickly. She bought another one when she was 24, which I think begs the question. A lot of people don't know that you can actually have multiple policies just like you would have multiple apartment buildings or any other asset that you want to have a portfolio of. I own over 20 life insurance policies because I have some on me, some of my husband, some on kids, some on key employees, et cetera.

Yeah. Why Not. Why not? So, and of course you're here to help people get whole life insurance policies. That's. That's your business.

That is correct.

So what is the process? What is the process?

Great question.

To get the whole life policy?

Yeah. So I have a lot of educational material out there. So if people like to read, I have books that they like to watch, I have videos, if they like to listen, I have podcasts. And then some of the books are on audibles as well. So I like people to self educate, which our society likes to do these days. And then when they come to me, I ask about six or seven very blunt questions. So the obvious, you know, gender, date of birth, what state you live in, that kind of thing. And I do help people in all 50 states and I have friends in Canada. So if somebody lives up there, I can get you help up there. And then I'll ask questions about that monthly money. So are you saving right now? If so, how much are you contributing to a 401k plan? Maybe we need to knock it down from max to match. Are you prepaying your mortgage? Are you spending money on the stock market? Are you, you know, just a variety of questions. I don't get into budgeting. Those don't work anyway. But I get a sense of what monthly money they have available and then I get a sense of. So that's like bottom up. So let's say, you know, we contribute this, that and the other and it's going to be 500amonth that we have extra. That's bottom up. And then I go top down. So what's your income? Let's say they're earning 100 grand a year. That means human life value is 30 times if they're a younger person. So it's $3 million. That's your human life value. 30 times income. So that's top down. So we use term insurance for the 3 million down and then we use the 500amonth to figure out the maximum cash value, minimum death benefit, whole life, which is bottom up, and meet wherever it's going to be. And that enables them to have the good coverage that they want with the term insurance and the whole life insurance that is then going to create that emergency opportunity fund. We get them physically examined, we do paperwork, and then they're ready to go. The initial meeting, literally half hour, hour if needed. If somebody has a lot of questions and then if their situation is complicated, we usually do two or three meetings. If not, it literally can be done in one, takes two to four to sometimes six to eight weeks to get approved. Insurance companies are slow. You know, if you have medical records, they're going to have to track them down, et cetera. And then their first check is their monthly amount. Some people pay annually, which is fine. Some people do some lump sums, fine, it's not necessary. And then they just go on every month from there. And I do a ton of continuing education in the books and the blogs and the podcasts so that people really just get that continued knowledge of here's an idea with the real estate or here's an idea with, you know, these other things that you could solve emergencies with and take advantage of opportunities for.

Well, you, you open the door on your, all the educations I know you provide. I'm just, we're not done yet, but I'm going to go ahead right now, share with everybody what you put together, what kind of resources you have available for them. That as for listening to the podcast, we're going to let or you're going to get them access to what do you have?

Yes. So we have a special page developed for your community that is prosperitythinkers.com Lance prosperitythinkers.com Lance and so I'm sure you'll throw that in the show notes and on that there is a downloadable booklet. It's about 50 pages, got some good pictures in it, so don't worry. A audio version of that booklet, a couple one pagers that are great summaries. In fact, people tell me I still have that thing on my refrigerator that I got from you sometimes years later. So that's all in there@problesitythinkers.com Lance and a little welcome video. And then I really invite people to reach out to me. I love email. I'm happy to communicate on email. Sometimes people find that an easier way to get started. The Prosperity Action Pack is a sign up option. You can opt out if it's not a good match for you. If you like the information, you'll continue for a few weeks to get some additional pieces that will help you learn. And then we schedule a phone call when you're ready to talk. And I love to do Q and A, which is really all the phone call is. And as I said earlier, sometimes we can get it done in one meeting. Sometimes it takes two or three.

All right, so very so so everyone. Prosperitythinkers.com Lance I love that title. Prosperity Thinkers. I love that title and I enjoy the Lance part too. Slash part. All right, so you've done a great job explaining what questions Have I not asked that? I should have been asking about Kim.

My favorite question. All right. There's two ways that it can go wrong. I think you always want to look at your exit strategy. Right. You always want to look at what do we do to handle the downside. The first way that the life insurance can go wrong is if you don't fund it long enough. So the product is called whole life insurance. Doesn't mean you need to fund it for your whole life. But this is not a two or three year deal. This is a 10, 20, 30, 40, maybe even 50 year deal. Like if you're 20 years old, you need to be funding this till you're 70. If you're in your 70s, you know it's probably going to be 10 years. But this is a long term deal. So the first way it can go wrong is if you don't fund it long enough. Now just real quick, that doesn't mean that you couldn't switch gears. Like if something happens and you need to switch gears, we can shrink the policy and solve the problem, but you don't want to go into it with a short timers attitude. The second way that it can go wrong is back to that borrowing that we were talking about. So if you're borrowing against it, borrowing against it, borrowing against it and never paying it back, that's not going to work long term. It'll work in the short run. And really what you want to be doing is barring against it, paying it back, barring against it, paying it back, barring against it, paying it back, doing the deals over and over and over. We teach the velocity of money method which is moving that money all the time. It's kind of a Robert Kiyosaki thing. So as long as you do that, you're fine. You cannot pay back the loans in the short run or you cannot pay back the loans if you're doing a fix and flip or something like that. But you can't not ever pay back the loans. And again, there's some incorrect information on the Internet in this space that I find confuses people and it's detrimental. So borrow payback, borrow payback, borrow payback. That will solve that problem, right?

Yeah. Because you'll run out of money to pay your premiums on your life insurance. You just don't.

Yes. And that loan just sits there and accumulates interest and can really get you sideways if you don't address it at some point.

Right. So it's just prudent use of the money. In other words, just put in something. It's gonna make a lot of money and then put it back. Put it back in. All right, what else did we. Any other questions that I should have asked? I didn't ask.

I'm gonna throw one more out there. So especially for your older and possibly wealthier clients, the thing about the life insurance is everybody's focused on the cash value. And yes, I love the emergency opportunity Fund. I bargains mine all the time to do real estate deals and other things. Things. And for your wealthier. And so I'm thinking like 2 million net worth and above and older, you know, typically 60s, 70s, 80s, that kind of thing. They'll want to learn how to utilize their death benefit while they're living. So everybody else uber focused on the cash value. I get that. The older person, especially if there's real estate businesses, stocks that have been held onto for a long time, where you've got a lot of built up capital gain and you don't want to sell that asset. There are some ways to combine the real estate with the life insurance in the form of a charitable remainder trust. We can even do reverse mortgage work. There are other examples like a pay down, which is not worth getting into today. But just remember, like stamp this on your forehead. One sentence. I can utilize my death benefit while I'm living. So it goes back to my earlier comment. Life insurance is called life insurance for a reason. And death, as we're all well aware, is a guaranteed event. And so you can combine that guaranteed event with a guaranteed payout called the death benefit from the insurance and bring that into your life today while you're living in an effort to reduce taxes, improve cash flow, create more opportunities, shift away, especially if you have stock market assets. Also shift away from the roller coaster ride of the stock market assets. So again, the older, wealthier clientele wants to also be learning about utilizing their death benefit while they're living.

That's intriguing. That's intrigued. Because, you know, up until now I wasn't too worried about it. I'm dead. But I guess now there's a way to take advantage of it. Today.

You got it.

Very intriguing. All right, Kim, this has been fantastic. This has been just awesome, awesome, awesome, guys. I hope you got this. So you take, you have a whole life insurance policy and most of you think about the cash value, but that's a. You can draw upon it to go buy these apartment buildings where you can certainly make a lot more than 5 or 6% off those funds.

Right.

You shouldn't be doing apartments, but that's just you can fall off if you don't know what you're doing. You make more than 5 or 6% putting your money in these apartments. And but you say you protect your family, protect your heirs, et cetera. And if you're not. I'm not insurable. Okay, well, your child, Your grandchild, your 19 year old partner that you just gained best buddies in getting 1% of your deal is now insurable and they can be insured. So it's a great opportunity and it's all tax advantage. And by the way, you got tax advantage whole life insurance combined with tax advantage. Real estate is like a double bonus opportunity. So really encourage you to check it out. Get a hold of Kim again. ProsperityThinkers.com Lance, you've got all the great material. He has a number of books on the Internet, including one of these right here. Oh, so you got Busting the Real Estate investing. Tell them about this, Kim. Tell about this. But you got to talk about this now.

So this was a fun one, done with a co author who's a St. Louis real estate investor and it talks about all the real estate investing lies. You know, one of the funniest is people want to put minimum down on their investment properties, right? Use opm, get as much money from the banks as you can, but then they turn around and want to prepay their mortgage as fast as they can because they think they're improving their cash flow and they are. But they're not improving the rate of return that they got on the deal. They're making it worse. Yeah, that's one of the lies that we talk about in the book. And it's just fun. And it definitely gets into the life insurance a little bit more as well.

Oh, does it talk about life insurance with real estate in that book too?

It does. Page 19.

There you go. Page 19. Another book you need to get from Kim. Busting the Real Estate Lies. Right after you get perpetual wealth. And she has a workbook that goes with it too. I didn't bring the workbook out. And she even has a card. You have a card. Look at there. She's got so really impatient. Just use the card deck.

Familylegacygame.com or you can find it on the website is. Yeah, super simple, like go Fish style card game. But it'll get the learning done.

And that's intended for the family, I guess, young people and.

Absolutely.

That's brilliant. Well, all right. So you got all these resources with this lady. ProsperityThinkers.com Lance, go look at there on the whole life insurance and the other resources. But just go at least check it out for yourself and see how you'd be using this. People always ask, where's the money coming from? Well, how about it comes from your whole life insurance policy, you know, while you're also paying, getting life insurance at the same time. Kim, this is again, it's been fantastic. I know you've opened eyes for a lot of people and take good care of them when they start calling you, get them in the whole life, get in these apartment buildings. Again, I want to thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much, Kim.

It's a joy.

All right, everyone, this is a wrap for this session. Greenlight, REI, the show notes. We'll put the notes in there. ProsperityThinkers.com Lance we'll have that link in there where you get the free free gift from Kim. Until next time, make yourself a successful real estate lifestyle. Take care, everybody. You've been listening to Interview with the Experts with Lance Edwards. Let us now blatantly and shamelessly bribe you toward creating your own real estate lifestyle by offering you a whole bunch of free stuff. Go to greenlight re&.com and get you some free stuff. And this session's show notes, that's greenlightreinvesting. Com.