10x Every Dollar Spent on Paid Leads with Dan Jones - Part 2

Welcome back to Real Estate Business Builders. This is Lars Hedinburg, founder, Real Estate B School. This is part two of a two part series where Dan Jones unpacks how he gets 10x plus return on every dollar he spends on paid leads in his business. Like I said on the last episode, well, first of all, if you missed the first episode, make sure you go back one episode so you know where to where this picks up. But Dan just runs an amazing business. It's systems driven. In our group he gave away all of the scripts that he uses and the system he uses to set up all of this. And so I'm hoping this part two is encouraging. I'm hoping you can realize that not all of these paid lead searches are junk.

Many of them are.

Generally people aren't getting a 10x return. But if you can run the system that Dan runs, you will be able to systematically increase your the growth of your business and also your net worth and also your time off. Right? So that's what we want for Real Estate B School. So stay tuned for part two and I hope you enjoy it.

But the relationship is the most important. Once you find out the relationship and the time written any offer, sign any paperwork. So step five is essentially, Lars, did you sign a 13 page agreement or did you sign a one page agreement or did you sign anything whatsoever? Right, Depending on your state, whatever the case is around that we have the easy exit agreement. We don't need to go too far into that. It's more concept here. Now step six you can almost throw in at any time. So Lars, let me ask you something. If I've found a really good deal, I called you, I told you about it, my team and I went to go show it to you. Would you still feel obligated writing the offer with blah blah blah right now? You don't have to wait to say that here. So Lars, how long have you been working with this agent? Not too long. Okay, how long is that too long? About a week. Now we'll go straight at how did you get paired up? I would skip number four. How'd you get paired up with them? I just met him at an open house and you know, they're really nice, even send us some home ideas and you know, she's text us a few times this and that. So I mean she seems like a really good person. So we will probably work with them. I'm skipping straight to number six. I know the relationship now. So Lars, let me, let me ask you questions. Market's really competitive, homes are flying off the market. If I found you a really good deal in the area that you were looking for, called you, text you, she said text too, text you about it, and called you, would you still feel obligated to write the offer with the person you met last week at an open house? Would you still feel obligated? Yes or no, right. 95 of the time it's a no. Like, oh no, no. If you found me the deal, perfect. It's game on. We're back on track with our conversation. Okay? If not, we have some alternatives. That is when you start clobbering Lars over the head. Lars, what's the benefit of working with somebody from an open house? They haven't showed you anything. They haven't found you a good deal. Right? Is there is. Do you see the correlation? Any benefit of doing that? Right. And then concern. But if you follow 1 through 6, the odds of you ever having to go through number seven and number eight. Right. So Lars, I'm a little concerned, you know, and you can say whatever you want to around concern. I'm just concerned. The way you're looking at something, you're going to miss out. We'll talk about, you know, some of the keywords here in a minute. You're going to miss out. You're probably going to overpay. Right? Let me ask you one more time. If I found you a really good deal, basically number six, called you, told you about it, showed it to you, would you still feel obligated? Okay, so any questions about that? Pretty straightforward. But it's a simple eight step and it's in the script book. Simple eight step process for some objection handling. And let me show you real quick as well what time we got. Okay, I think we're good on time. So let me. So in the script book, let me fast forward just a little bit. I want to make sure you guys know as well the top four objections that we have traditionally seen. So this is the ninja script that we talked about and then Boomtown leads and then our objections. So this is. I have an agent that's in your book. In the script book. If somebody can think of a good name. I hate script book. Nobody's ever gave me a good name. So many things of a good name. I'd love to hear it. Maybe the million dollars. There's only $1 million script. So anyways, homes under contract, how we handle the AR under contract, no show. And. And then some financing stuff like it's really well thought out. And this is just not me. This is some really, really good minds around this. So let's hop back over to the second part of this which is it's not a good time to buy or sell. And I guarantee we've all heard that over the, you know, since October, November, December till now and we will continue to hear that. Just remember, 67 of the country think that, or at least that were polled. That's still significant. So I want to turn it over. Hopefully everyone is listening to keeping current matters. That's a simple website. It's a 20, 25 minute call a month. Lars has been listening to these things for Liz for years and got me on these several years ago. But to sum up everything that they're saying right now and like the market is going to crash, the reason it's not going to crash and the evidence, like there's no data right now that says the market is going to crash. We're up against the media but at the end of the day, supply and demand. Supply builders are 10, 12 years still behind trying to catch up from all the years they weren't putting homes in the ground. Resales. A lot of people don't know where to go. So supply has stayed relatively low. Yeah, buyer demand has come down but now you can actually, you know, buy a house. So prices have like state stable like six out of the seven parts of the country. So not, I mean decent growth and appreciation last year. There's a few spots on the west coast that sell a two potential 3% price drop in a few different areas. But if we don't educate our people and we hear this objection, essentially, you know, we're going to lose potential business and in this market we can't afford to lose business. So hopefully everyone knows this already. This is nothing new, but this is just kcm, my kcm.com it's the best 25 bucks a month you want to spend. But it's monthly market reports. Here's all the slides. You can post these on social media, use them for video content. We put out two videos a month. Most of the time one of them at least has some information from this, if not both of them. But that is essentially enlarged. Anything else from kcm? It's pretty straightforward but anything you want to add around that?

No, we watch it monthly as a community and share. I mean I think it's like the biggest, no brainer to just subscribe to it. I think you get like a blog, they write an article a day for you. I mean it's, it's sort of ridiculous how they keep it and I think it's still like 29 bucks a month or something crazy.

It's very inexpensive.

Like, I'm not good at, like, I just hear them articulate it and, and the way they talk about the slide. And then I would just do a monthly live with their slides, but I would say kind of the same things and then throw in a few, you know, our Metro, some stats there and I'd get like, you know, a thousand views on it. And so you can use it in so many ways. It's, it is pure gold. And, and it is like the narrative that the, the news and the 24, 7 news cycle and it's all FUD. Fear, uncertainty. That has nothing to do with the reality of the real estate market. So it's like, it's totally opposite. So, yeah, I'm a huge fan.

Yeah. The education portion, this, that's the easiest avenue to be able to show your database. Somebody you're working with, a buyer or a seller and such as that's the marketing going to crash. It's not a good time to buy. So the market's going to crash. An interest rate. One of the things, you know, I had our team start saying in late October, early November, that's worked extremely well is, you know, you have to handle both. If somebody saying the market's not good, you have to educate them first. And then more than likely they're thinking it's your interest rate. Either they're going to tell you or they're thinking. Do not assume they're not thinking about it because they are. Right. So interest rate. Lars, I agree with you. Interest rates have increased. But you have to remember, you're marrying the house, but you're only dating the interest rate. You're dating the interest rate. The odds are interest rates will drop over the next year or two. Right. They're not going to come back to 3 and 4%, but we can refi at 5, 5 and a half, you know, percent here in a few years. Most experts feel like that is what's going to happen. Right. And at that point, we've leveled with them. Now we can understand their potential pain. Then we can go buy them or sell, you know, sell their house. Right. But without this piece right here in this market wasting your time. Right. I would encourage everyone to download the Zillow mortgage app for me is the easiest, but some sort of mortgage app. Zillow's like, I don't like Zillow very much. The mortgage app's pretty good. I would even have a scenario like in Your mind ready to go? This is one of the ones our team does. So, you know, I'm talking to Lars. Lars, 2500 dollars a month. So you're on the fence. I get that. You know, the media has everyone scared. You know, that's just not the reality. I give him the education. I give him the interest rate scenario. Like, what do you want to do, Lars? Are you going to sit on the sidelines for the next four years and 20, $500 a month, 120k of 100% of nothing versus putting the 10% down on the $450,000 home, 20% towards principal, 102k towards tax deduction on interest payments. I mean, that's a 40 to $50,000 swing. The market's not dropping 50 grand on a $450,000 house. It's just not going to happen. Right, so if that is his scenario, the key word or phrase down there at the bottom, as well as what is your preference? What is your preference? Like, our team asked that over and over and over. Now, what is your preference? Once you understand the pain and you can make two correlations between the two. Lars, what's your preference? Then? I'd love to buy, but still, it just feels, you know, X, Y and Z. I'm here to tell you, man, $120,000 is out the window versus 20K towards principal, $102,000, depending on your tax bracket. You know, you're talking 40, $50,000 swing versus $120,000 down the drain. And if we refine a few years in that lower rate, that 20k starts to move up a little bit quicker, you know. How are you going to make your decision? How do you. How are you going to make your decisions? What's your preference? How are you going to make your decision? Right. Same thing at a listing appointment. Lars, tell me. Hey, we're interviewing a couple more agents. There's no possible way we're getting paperwork signed today. All right, tell me how you're going to make your decision. What are the top three things you're going to make your decision on? You shut your mouth. There's one, two, and three is number one the most important. And we focus on that to make sure they had no questions and there's nothing we can do to get paper sign. It's the same thing here. Once you understand both sides, what are your options? There's pain associated here. There's a little bit of pain over here. There's definitely less pain over here. Making the purchase. What's Your preference. There's pain. Stand here. There's pain. And if we don't have these sort of conversations on the buy and sell side, just kind of moving forward, like real estate is going to be a struggle for, for everyone right in your world. Any questions around this, we move on now.

This, this is old. This right here is, is gold. I'm just thinking, I mean everyone needs to do a Facebook live a loom video with, with this slide up there with their, their head in the corner and just run through this example as, just as just great content.

It comes down to, you know, there, there is pain associated with not doing X, Y or Z and just knowing the pain. What's your preference and how you're going to make your decision? What else we got here? All right. Art of setting the appointment. This is fun. Well, I mean, for me at least, hopefully you guys have a good time with it as well. So setting the face to face appointment, what I have seen, you know, just working with, with Lars and helping teams over the years and just listening to their team members or you know, the sales coaches or the team leader. Seems like one of the main issues is people talk to leads or you know, have a meaningful conversation with the buyer or seller and just do not go for the face to face appointment. I don't know why, why. I mean, I know Lars told me back in the day to go do it and I just listened and did it and you know, did it over and over and over and over again. Got really good at it. But every time if you, you're with a team, own a team, independent, every time you have a meaningful conversation, go for a sit down, face to face appointment. Very good things will happen. You know, we were sitting at the, I was at the bar the other day waiting for my buddy at Chili's and started talking to a guy about some real estate stuff and I haven't sold a house in a while, I'm out of production and you know, he starts talking. I was like, Dave would be perfect for this guy. So I'm actually setting an appointment for Dave as a face to face. Pulling up his calendar for like three or four days later. Setting a face to face at the bar at Chili's. Met the guy, probably won't sell for another two, three months. But like you're always setting the face to face appointment. Lars, I'm not sure if you heard that. I was like, the team didn't believe me until Dave actually went on the appointment. Set an appointment like literally at Chili's for like three or four days later. Just every time. If you get in that mindset. Every time I have an nc, we are setting the face to face appointment and I'll give you guys some examples, but I just want to make sure like you're clear. There's a hundred different ways to do this. You just have to do it. I want to give you guys some just kind of examples. So if you guys have practiced LP Mama, which I'm sure we all have at this point. The top six is kind of the core group of making the recommendation for the Access Taxes pass home buying process. Homes are flying off the market. I'm not sure if that was in. I think we added that several years ago. Missing out. Overpay. Right. So those are the core groups. So I have a meaningful conversation with Lars. I'm just going to mix them up. The top six. I don't like doing this for you all the time. So let me make a recommendation. Let's get together for a few minutes. I know you're a first time homebuyer. Let's talk about the home buying process. It's really important I get you a backstage pass to the MLS because homes are flying off the market. I don't want you missing out. And getting priority access is going to allow you not to overpay what works best for you mornings or afternoons. Now the whole reason why we have this MC is so we can get here to the finish line. We're making the recommendation, so let's just do a couple more. So Lars, let's just randomly pick. So Lars, let me make recommendations. So I know on the financing side you had some questions. I want to go over just some options that sellers are doing and even new construction on helping buyers buy down the rate. Also I want to go over the benefits of doing new construction versus resell. You know, I know you've seen me online or whatever, that's fine. But I want to put a face to the name because just moving forward, if you decide on a resale, I want to get you a backstage pass to the MLS already access all the better deals so you don't miss out or overpay. And we can discuss, bottom line, a game plan to get your homes ready. So when the perfect deal hits the market, we have a plan. What works best for you mornings or afternoon, there's a hunt. I won't say 100. There's a solid 40, 50, 60 more reasons we could add to this list. But it's all about having, you know, and I probably should have put something on I don't think I did, no. I probably should put someone here on relocation. We're a big relocation area. We practice this all the time. So, Lars, I know you're relocating here to the area. I know you only been here a few times. Let's do this. Julie and I yourself. Let's connect zoom phone, whatever works best for you. I want to go over all the different areas. The most important part of all of this is we get the location right. Right. And I want to go over the different areas you should be looking and probably shouldn't be looking, so you're not wasting time. In addition, I want to get you this, this, this. Anything you want to, depending on the conversation. This right here, if you can show value, you're just signing appointment after appointment after appointment after appointment. Same thing on the list side, right? There's competition. No competition. I'm thinking about selling my house for six months. How many agents won't get in front of those people? Why would I get in front of. They're not selling for six months. No. The benefit is this. We're going to do this, this. I want to get you some numbers when we come to the game plan. I want to show you what to do, what not to do before getting your home ready. There's tons of agents out there that are making you over improve your house, spending tens of thousand dollars in a deep seller's market. Let's get together. I want to make sure that doesn't happen to you. What works best for you mornings or afternoons? Right. It's the same concept on the list, but if you get good at the MC and this portion right here in this market and you can educate people, you will still sell a ton, ton, ton, ton of houses. Our numbers will not flip from last year, even though let one or two people go recently. You know, we want to rehire a little bit, but we will, we will. We will be just fine. Actually. Probably have a little bit better because more and more agents are scooting out of our market. But any questions around just kind of the whole appointment and we're getting close on time.

I just love how it's a. It's just a value stack. It's like, you know, boom, boom, boom, boom. It's. It's not.

Nobody says. Nobody says no. Nobody says no. When you show that much value and you listen to them and you come up with the MC and you make that, you know, appointment. All right, we're good. We'll move on. We're good. Yep.

Real, real quick.

I'll I'll.

I'll sneak it in here. So. So when you don't get a hold of a lead, is there anything with voicemail or texting or is it just recycle? Different. Different numbers and. And just try calling. Have you guys had any success with voicemail or text?

Not really texting. Yeah. Especially on new leads like our AR leads, like a realtor.com or something. It's four calls, four texts in the first hour, three voicemails in the first hour, and then we just, you know, call. We don't leave voicemails when they come in new after the first bit. Right. That first hour because we have different people logging in to the new lead account to make dials. But the texts come from Carolina real estate experts. Not one person's name. But texting is by. Yeah, by far better than a voicemail. Very rarely. I never had any success with voicemail unless I consistently left voicemail after voicemail. Actually, there's one girl, her voicemail said, my name's Hannah, Hannah Dennis. She's like, my name's Hannah Dennis. Or he reached Hannah, please leave a voicemail. So I like to hear them. So I left her voicemail 11 weeks in a row. And she finally called me one day. She said, like, you're the most consistent person I've ever met. I'm ready to go look at houses. But besides like a few one offs texting. Yeah. But no, no voicemails.

Awesome. I think we're. We're good. I'm going to. I'll ask the other questions if they fit in the end.

Okay. Yeah. So the last thing I want to cover. We only have a few minutes. Let me. All right, so. So recycling leads. Let's suppose it's a new lead within our team. Let's suppose you're an independent agent. You have supposed an assistant. You're on a team. Whatever the case looks for you, like for you when you fumble on a lead, like send it to somebody else since the next person, like, I'm going on a listing appointment, you know, my assistant's here. I want to have them give them a call. Like, I've called it three or four times, wasn't even in touch with it. I would rather have somebody from our team connect with the lead. Right. And just build on their strengths, personalities. It's like, hey, you know, Dan's going back. And also a little bad. I know he tried to call you. You reach, you'd reached out to us. Whatever, whatever, whatever. Are you free, you know, later today? Set the appointment for some sort of callback. If one of our team members, like we had one yesterday, was an inbound business card call, one of our own expired mailer. And he almost got it this close. What do you do? Archive the lead? Nope. Send it to somebody else. And guess what? They're going to be calling it here in a few hours. Hey, I know you called in a little while ago, you know, and then just pick up right where they left off. Right. We're going to keep on and own and own. Right? That's just recycled. With the new lead now in 2018, our ROI on realtor.com I mentioned earlier was a little over 8 to 1, and it had dropped from the previous year, mostly because of price increases. So we started this whole idea of recycling lead. So depending on your setup, if you're on a team, you should hold, you know, your team leader accountable to say, like, hey, can we do this? We should be doing this. Every single lead is tagged every single time. And SRI came up with a process like, okay, if it was, I have an agent, we're going to call them. I think it's like every 60 days they go by date last time it was tagged, and they'll, you know, her VA will go back in and put it into the dialer mixed in with, you know, no longer looking. We'll call them every four to five months. I said, I have an agent no longer looking, you know, relocating, for example. But it was like a year, two years out. You know, she has a time frame where they go back in and then put those back into Mojo into the dialer. So each agent has like a new list to dial, you know, while they're waiting on their opportunity shifts. So everyone's able to dial two, three hours a day, just recycling leads. And we have, you know, some old seller leads, expired lists, etc. But this is what got us back in 2019, even as prices increased, we still finished with realtor.com@11.4 to 1. Just, you know, because I got a feeling with pricing increasing and not doing anything different, that 8ish would have went down to 6.5, 6.7, because prices skyrocketed, you know, just like Zillow did. But they were, you know, later. So if you're not doing this whole idea of recycling, you know, this is the time to do it, not spend more money on new leads, recycle what you have until you recycled it and come up with a good system around it. Just so. So moving forward, you know, and that's. We could go Deeper on that. We only have four minutes. Want to save a couple minutes just for some Q A and oh gosh, what should be tracking? I forgot. All right, real quick. Sorry.

Go through a.

Go through accountability for everyone in real estate entering into the next 12 to 24 months. What do you suggest, you know, in terms of accountability? Time blocking, kind of give us, give us how you're going to guide your agents in a market where I think we're going to lose 30 to 40% of agents. How are your agents going to power through this?

Lars? Exactly how you powered us, man. You led by example. You were in the, you were crushing real estate. Right, I meant like personally with the team, like even though I'm not making dials, you know, being in, you know, when I'm in the office a couple hours, first thing in the morning, you know, I'm working on something and just high five in and then if they need some help, they get off a call and you know, coach them up a little bit. But it's just this mindset of education pain face to face because we're going to get only so many reps in this market. And when you get that listing, you know, we've, we're circle prospecting. We've never circle prospect. Right. But at the end of the day, if you're not circle prospecting around your listing and keeping that database full, you're going to have to prospect. God, Lars, remember how much used to prospect in 2010, 11 and 12. And how many homes there were like. I'm not saying it's going to be that much, but the better your skills are on all of this sort of stuff on the buy and sell side, like the less you're have to do of it. But we're gonna have to shift gears. Real estate's been easy the last year, two, three years. But as this transition happens, as long as you do some of these fundamental basics and work your soi past client databases. I didn't hear Dave's full talk last, but if you can combine this and those two, you'll come out way on the high side over the next 24 months. Guaranteed. Guaranteed.

Yeah. Awesome. Awesome. Real quick, do you manage your own pay per click or. I think I know the answer. Boomtown manages it for you.

Yeah, Boomtown does. And that was one of the things. What should you be calculating and like calls per lead, et cetera. Boomtown does that for us. Really easy. I know we spend on realtor.com they make it pretty easy for us. Some of the tracking stuff Lars, I've showed you this before, but this is just every single realtor.com lead. Some of these things are 40, 50, $60 a pop. I want to make sure like, you know, things were called appropriately. So a VA Comes in every single day. And then just the. That's not the right scorecard. That's right. That was around the. The accountability portion. Let me see if there's anything else. And then if anybody. When it comes to P L. I can share this with Jessica as well. Lars and I did this long time ago and turned it over to. I forget the one company used for. Used for the PNLRs, but Lars still does ours. Jess bought you the other day, just so you know. But when I say tracking, I want to see. I don't want to see just marketing. I want to see every single line item. This is on a call I did the other day with somebody, but accidentally mixed in our whatchamacallit a bunch of our rental cost expenses. But I want to see. I want to see everything broken out between buyer side and seller side. What am I spending my money on? Like every single, like line item separated. So when I go in to see, like, what my GCI is on each lead source, I can tell you really quickly what we. What we spent and what we make. Right. So that's a heck of a difference. Lars, then you're.

I love it. No excuses.

None. None. Yeah, if anybody needs that. And then this right here is absolute gold for your accountant. So you don't have to reinvent the wheel. You can just change some of the names. I can share this with Jess as well, just to make sure everybody gets. Gets this. But this will save your accountant, like literally hours and hours and headaches turn trying to figure like a good accounting system out. So I'll share both that monthly P L and the. The code breakdown as well. Dan, any.

Any thoughts on. Chris had a question about, you know, hiring agents that have already been a solo agent. I can think of two types. A solo agent, but they don't have the bad habits. Or a solo agent that thinks they. They kind of know how their world works going into this transition type market. What are your thoughts on it?

Yeah, coachability. Everything comes down to coachability. Dave, who's our kind of newest agent, he started last. Not this January, but January before. Good guy. I think he's at seven and a half. Almost 8 million written and closed this year. Actually written, not quote, just written so far this year. And his wife is about ready to give birth, so he's Been in and out of pocket the last five to six weeks. He was very coachable. There's a few other people we've turned down because you know, leadership team and a couple agents didn't feel like they were coachable. It was, it all comes down to coachability, man. But with someone who's going to perform at a really high level, who's been a prior agent, I love someone who's been an agent before who you really feel like is coachable because if they can grow within your brand and you brand them eventually as they grow like Dave, it's like we're building his seller website out now. You know he's Carolina real estate experts Dave. That's real estate, his URL. I want to brand him now if he's going to stay within our organization I want to brand him to like a new level. But people who've been around the block and have like their transactions handled in the back end, they love it. Actually we're, we're interviewing a guy from on a ReMax team down in South Charlotte soon and I hear his story and he sold 12 houses last year and I'm like he didn't get anything like that. We do. I'm like if you did 12 in that system I want to have you to 35 or 40. 40 over here. But he's coaching, he's coachable. I think it comes down to one order.

Yeah, awesome. I think I know the answer to this. I, I'm 100 sure. Sohail is new to the B school coaching side. Do you run your team on an economic model and what are your splits? I mean you're running pretty much B school economic model, right?

Yeah. The only thing that's changed for us and the only thing that. So I decided last year we lost a gentleman due to the lack of growth opportunity on the team. Loves the team. We're actually still best friends. Helps our non profit but he took a position with the management position Slash is able to sell at the same time and potentially help run the team later. So we're going to, we're in growth mode. We're, we're going to grow. So I did increase the splits. We have split model for 0 to 25 units, 26 to 50, 50. Then after 100 mostly the SOI continues to sneak up on the buy side and list side as you continue to scale. So I've heard a lot of teams lose people because of that. So to supplement that we are going to grow. You know I've always, I've always been eight to 10 agents and that's. That's it. That's fine with 250, sometimes 275, it's really, really scalable. But we're going to grow to 15, then 18. We'll probably get to 20. I won't. Especially Dave. He wants to manage and help newer agents and be a sales coach, et cetera. I want that opportunity for him. Otherwise he's probably going to leave. But as. Yes, we run a really tight ship around what we, you know, what we spend on a monthly basis. So we're able to give a little bit higher. But in the beginning, you do not want to go very far away from the splits with revs has.

Overall, you're still north of 60% on gross margin, right?

For the most part. For the most part. Actually, given we're heavier on the buy side, we're right around 56 to 58%. I'm okay, because we run our. Our cost of sell or like all of our expenses around 26 to 28%. I personally don't.

So you're still at 30% net. You're out of production.

Real quick.

This is more of an economic model conversation, but I just want everyone to know that most of the teams out there are running closer to a brokerage split model for their team than they are a split that is actually a sustainable business. And so you'll see most of team leaders, you know, they can't coach and help their agents too much because they're like eyeballs up to transactions themselves and just take like the top five or 10 teams in your market and see how many homes the team leader is selling. It's because they can't make money the way that they've set it up because it's on the wrong model.

Yeah, I heard somebody the other day, a really big coaching institution the other day talking about, you know, so and so, like they're still in production. They're selling 8, 900 homes a year. This person selling 100. But they're running like an 18 to 20% net profit. I'm like, and you're selling 100 of the houses? Like that makes no sense whatsoever. You know that. That blew my mind. But anyways, awesome.

All right, brother, I appreciate you much love and respect.

I hope you enjoyed the second part of Dan Jones talk on getting a 10x return on paid lead sources. It's not easy to do, but with the proper system, you can make it happen. If you're at the point in your business growth journey where, you know there's another level to your growth. Just grab a business growth assessment. There's no, no obligation. There's no risk whatsoever. We just want to have a conversation about where your business is today, where you want it to be in the future, and what's holding you back. So go to rebs growth assessment.com, that's rebs growth assessment.com and we'll see you over there.