The 14 Rules You Must Abide By | How the Strength of Your Marriage Directly Determines the Strength of Your Business w/ Todd LaVine

Welcome to Real Estate Business Builders. I'm your host, Lars Hedenborg, the founder of Real Estate B School. Bottom line, the real estate industry has failed to create a clear path to financial freedom. Traditional brokerages and coaching are designed to keep you running on the transaction treadmill with no exit strategy. While I didn't have any sales, marketing or business building experience when I got into real estate, I was willing to bet on myself and figure it out because my family was depending. Having served over 5,000 families with their real estate needs, I've made every mistake you could possibly make in this business. Through Real Estate B School, I've helped hundreds of agents and team leaders realize their goal of true time and money, freedom and living a life without regrets. If you know there's another level of growth inside of you and you want to learn how to build a highly lucrative lifestyle business, then you're in the right place. You won't find any fluff or hype here on this show. Just real world tools, systems and strategies that work. Let's grow together.

Welcome back, Real Estate Business Builders. This is going to be a really interesting episode. You know, I'm, I'm all about the hard charging. I am very goal oriented and I have figured out and failed forward multiple times in all the areas that you could fail. But what I found is that, you know, when things aren't right in my marriage, I tend to carry that into my business. And when the business isn't going the way that I wanted to, I tend to carry some of that stress into the marriage and ultimately it can kind of turn into this vicious cycle. My guest today, Todd Levine, his passion, his ministry, his mission in life is to, is to help in this area of your life in marriages. And I've seen, you know, guys that are playing the game of business at the highest levels. We all know them and their, their, their marriages have fallen apart, you know, and I've made the commitment, you know, that I'm never going to be married to someone else and I'm willing to do whatever it takes in marriage, even if it's uncomfortable, to be willing to have the tough conversations, just as I am in business, right? So my wife and I, we don't always love it, but we have these tough conversations and we're not perfect at communicating. And Todd's going to unpack that conversation with us today. You know, how do you communicate? Open up the lines of communication in your marriage so that your marriage can thrive and ultimately your business can thrive, your faith can thrive, and all the areas of Life that matter can thrive. So, Todd, explain a little bit, a little bit about your background in business and, and your, your mission here and then we'll get into the conversation.

Sure. Thanks for having me, Lars. I appreciate it. So my business background and experience has been business management, leadership, business ownership for my entire professional career. You know, over 40 years in time. Owned my own business from 1995 through 2001. Became an executive pastor at a local church from 03 to 13. Went back into the marketplace, was a general manager for a construction company. So I was in the trades for a while and then I went back into full time pastoral ministry and founded a company called Agape Pastoral Services. And my focus there is premarital counseling, marriage coaching and counseling. And I'm also finding a pretty sweet little niche for men's coaching and business consulting because of my business background and experience.

Awesome. So, you know, as we prepared for this conversation today, you know, you said one of the probably most important things we can talk about is just communication with it within a marriage. So I'm going to kind of hand things over to you. I'll definitely ask questions along the way. Yeah, you know, this is our second time together. About five or six months ago, we recorded a really good episode. I suggest you guys check it out, go back in the archives. But I'm going to lean on you for the expertise and I'm going to, I'm going to be chiming in, you know.

Sure.

Like they say, you know, I have a friend, you know, might be that friend might be me, me asking you questions as they relate to, to my marriage. So I'm going to let you open up the conversation and then I'll, I'll definitely ask questions along the way.

Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, if there's one thing I've learned, Lars, over the years of doing what I do is that if, if I'm not well at home, I'm not well in my workplace. And that can't help but not bleed over into my, my work life, my professional life, all of those relationships that I have. And so I've really got to make sure that I'm staying focused at home and making sure that my marriage is all that it can possibly be and that it's, it's doing as great as it can possibly be. And so what I want to focus on today and talk a little bit about today is the, the idea of communication within our marriage relationships. You know, when I'm meeting with couples that, that are struggling in their marriage, where their marriages are going sideways for one reason or another, they may be even to the point of talking about divorce. And one of the most common, most prevalent issues in that relationship is that there just simply is no communication going on. You know, they just don't know how to communicate effectively and productively together. They've never really given each other the freedom to be open and honest and direct with one another. Their. Their communication for a good part of their marriage has just focused on, you know, those immediate types of things, those, how's the weather out there? What's on the to do list to do? What do we got to get done this weekend? You know, and life can get so busy, so crazy that that's all we end up talking about. And then all of a sudden, we find ourselves in a place in our marriage relationship where we don't even know how to communicate about the more intimate, personal, meaningful types of things that really under underscore a marriage and make it strong and thriving. And so that's kind of at the core root of it.

Yeah. So. So if. If, you know, someone is listening and. And I kind of view it, you know, I'm so 2006 to. So we're 17 years this year, you know, and, you know, going through seasons with children and business and, you know, there have been times where I've been sort of closer, you know, in communicating with my wife, in the times where we're busy and we're doing all the things and there are folks that are listening, you know, that they're. They're kind of just coexisting, and there isn't a oneness or any kind of intimate relationship. And the reason why we're doing this on a business podcast is because this does impact every area of your life. If you're sort of, like, wondering if you should be here and your marriage isn't as strong as, you know, it could be. Marriage and that relationship is the fuel for business. So let's say you're on the side where, like, things aren't great and you're not having any meaningful conversations with your wife. You're not sharing concerns or challenges or goals or, you know, where would you even start to unpack it? Like, is there kind of framework or how do you help unpack this with your clients?

Yeah, absolutely. And a great question, you know, the thing that has to happen immediately is that, is that we as husbands and wives have to establish the ground rules, you know, these guidelines, if you will, that we are going to agree to and abide by within our marriage relationships. You know, we're getting, getting ready to roll into the NFL season here. Pretty soon we got summer camps going on and, and the owners are in meetings kind of crafting and fine tuning their rules for the NFL season coming up. And once those rules get memorialized, they're going to be introduced to the coaches, they're going to be introduced to the players, and those coaches and players are going to agree to abide by those rules. Right? You know, and so just like that, a marriage has to have these guidelines and rules in order to make certain that everybody is playing fair, everybody is playing by the rules, so that any meaningful, deep, significant, you know, communication that needs to take place in the relationship can take place in a safe, friendly, kind, gentle, loving way. You know, if those NFL football teams didn't have rules, I mean, you and I both know, Lars, that, I mean, Sunday mornings would be Thunderdome, right? I mean, it would be chaos if there were not rules to abide by. There'd be killing and blood and maiming and just all sorts of crazy stuff going on down there. But they've agreed to play by the rules, and if they don't play by the rules, they're going to get penalized. And so I think a marriage is very much the same way. And when we get off the call, I'll send you a document that you could post with this, with this podcast that'll give a couple some ideas of what some of those rules could be. There's 14 rules that, that I have laid out in this document, and I can read through them now real quickly if you like, or people can just link to them later. But, you know, rule number one is to agree to come into any conversation with a tender, loving, kind heart. You know, regardless of what's bringing you into that conversation. Your spouse has to feel safe in order for them to feel confident in wanting to present any idea or any thought that might be going on in their life. And rule number two is to make sure that you're going in with unselfish motives and that you're going in with a humble attitude. Right? You know, we've got to go in with a level of humility to acknowledge and recognize that we're not always right and we've got to be willing to listen to what this person has to say. Rule number three is to act maturely in your listening and speaking, you know, so quickly and so easily. Couples can devolve to a point of almost becoming like middle schoolers or high schoolers, where they're just. Just talking snarky and getting Upset and maybe even becoming derogatory. And it's just a sad state when it devolves to that point. Rule number four would be to respectfully honor one another, to just demonstrate honor and respect to our spouse. Again, no matter what is that they're saying. Rule number five is no provoking or name calling. You know, again, we can devolve to a point very quickly where, where we are, we are name calling or we are saying, you know, antagonistic and provoking comments that get the other person's blood boiling a little bit. Keep in mind the power of our tongue. You know, rule number six, our tongue can tear people down so quick, quickly. And, and we have to recognize that, that we've got to be very careful with any of those words that come out of our mouth. Rule number seven is, is no mind reading required. We've got to express in a, in a direct and assertive manner what it is that we're feeling and believing in that moment because we can't expect our spouse to read our minds. Rule number eight is no sidetracking the discussion. You need to stay on point. We have to stay on point so easily. We can so easily run down all these different rabbit trails and get lost in the conversation and muddy the waters and not even realize why we were in that conversation to begin with. Another really important point is never using you statements when you're talking to your spouse. You never take out the garbage when you're supposed to. You never do this, you always do that. I mean, the moment you open a conversation with you is the moment you've just punched your spouse in the nose, put them back on their heels, and now they're going to get defensive and they're going to put their fists up and they're going to be ready to fight. You've, you've positioned them to do that. We've got to remember that we can only ever or should only ever use I statements. You know, statements like I feel like, you know, I've, I've always got to remind you to take out the garbage. You know, I, I feel like you don't care in this situation. And it's, it's bringing it back to yourself and how it's making you feel and interpret the relationship in that moment. And, and so just to kind of rattle through these last few. Rule number 11, don't play the innocent one. You know, we, we have to own what we need to own at the end of the day, right? We all play some role in and some responsibility in wherever the relationship finds itself. Be willing to say you're sorry, you know, be willing to own what you need to own and ask for forgiveness when forgiveness needs to be asked for and then just kind of be at the very end of it all. Express some thankfulness and some gratefulness to your spouse that you are grateful that you could have this open and honest conversation and, and talk through, and work through what may have been a very difficult thing to talk and work through and express gratitude for it. Make them more willing to come back and do it again down the road if they're frustrated with you about something. Right?

Yeah. And so all of those are awesome. Have you found that when a marriage is struggling, is there one, you know, person in the marriage that's more willing and eager to kind of bring the marriage under scrutiny and get someone involved, get a coach involved or like, I can imagine that the spouse that really wants to improve things, bringing this list of rules and sitting down with, let's say in this instance, it was the husband. And I thought where you were going with the football thing was like, husband, you're getting ready to sit down and watch, you know, six games a week of football and you know, think about how your wife will feel. But, but that's like you saying you, you know, to the, to the guys out there. But, but how do you navigate that? Right? If one person is feeling like, let's, I'm going to totally stereotype here, let's just say the husband is not, the wife is not feeling loved and she's not getting what she feels she wants out of the relationship and she's the one that, you know, hears this episode and brings the list to the husband. Like, how do you even open up the dialogue? What is a first step? Like, you know, either spouse is going to be triggered probably with like, hey, here are 14 rules, you know, and, you know, I think we should start abiding by these. But any thoughts on that?

Yeah, I mean, it's a great question and it's your classic introvert, extrovert example there, right? Where again, stereotypically the wife is generally a little more extroverted, wanting and willing to communicate in deeper and more, more meaningful ways. And the, the husband is the more withdrawn one typically and doesn't necessarily want to emote and, and express and share his feelings. But what I, you know, if a couple's not sitting in front of me where I can coach them and teach them as to why this is an important practice to implement, what I do in one on one cases is, is I tell them to just begin lifeing these principles out on your own, to, to model what you expect. And by modeling what you expect, you're going to extend an olive branch of sorts to your spouse, who may not be necessarily inclined to want to engage in this manner and in this way. And so once it begins to get modeled, the other person is going to be much, much more receptive to engage into those deeper, more meaningful and significant questions, especially if they're, they're resulting in, in the resolution of conflict. If there's conflict present in the, in the marriage.

Yeah, that, that, that, that's amazing. Right? So, so you have full control. Well, you only have control of your, your actions, you know, and, and what you could bring to a marriage. You don't even need the other spouse to be able to implement these rules. You could just decide that I'm going to start, you know, and your spouse is going to. In that situation. Have you ever been in a situation where you've actually, you know, coached one and, and you've just drawn in the other like 100?

I, I can tell, tell you from having seen it many, many times over that if just one person within the marriage relationship will do what they need to do, that they can swing that other person back to being on their team by just staying committed to that. You know, I mean, I'm a Christian man and you know, a lot of my reference and idea comes from the Bible. And you know, and so what, what I'm ultimately trying to, to convey and to do is to take personal responsibility for myself. You know, when I look at things that, that address this idea in the Bible, they're not conditional verses of Scripture, they're not conditional ideas. They're commands. And so if they're commands, I need to do these things, whether in my opinion it's merited, deserved, warranted, or whatever. My spouse may not be reciprocating at all. But if I keep doing what I need to be doing, it is amazing to me how often I see couples where the other person will eventually come back around and start engaging back into the relationship and start doing what they ultimately, deep down inside, know what they need, need to do. Because all of us have a conscience. It doesn't have to be biblical or not. It, it. We all know what is right, and we all know what is wrong. And, and we know what that looks like in the context of marriage. And so it's just amazing how often those, those, those spouses that are not engaged, not contributing, not reciprocating what they're receiving, how Often they will come back around and just begin doing what they, they know to be doing without even them necessarily even realizing it. It's just happening.

Yeah, I, I, I went through a season in my marriage. I don't know if it was, you know, conscious or whatever triggered it, but, but I was definitely sort of keeping score, you know, where I finally made the decision like, you know, what if I just gave a hundred percent, 100% of the time, like that was my intention versus like this sort of like tug of war, tit for tat, you know. Well, like I did that and she's not doing that the way, you know, versus like even when I try to give 100%, 100% of the time, I may be lucky to give, you know, 50%, you know, but the intention is like I'm all in with the kids, with keeping the house in order, with all of it, getting my calendar organized in a way that has her, you know, gives her the ability, my wife Julie, to do what she wants to do. So that was a major pivot for me. But I have a question though. I, I come up, most of the coaching I do, it's with hard charging agents that want to build businesses. So they want to like be the 1% of the 1% in the real estate industry. And I, I got on a, I think it took a call or two. I don't do a lot of one on one, but in this situation it was someone that, that requested it and I really had a heart for this guy and first or second call he shared with me, you know, that, you know, the divorce papers have been drawn up, you know, and I'm like, and then I just unpack. Like this guy's got seven different businesses, you know, and none of them are performing financially. They're not, they're not doing as good as you would think if you had seven businesses, you know, they're made like 250, 300 grand take home on seven businesses. It's like, what, what's going on? You know, and, and so instantly I think I know all the issues. But what advice would you give for the hard charger that like wraps a lot of their self worth? Because I've been there, they wrap a lot of their worth and their, their, it fills them up and it gives them pride and, and their ego feels good from the business wins and their, their marriage and their family life is struggling. Like, how would you like if you had a couple minutes to give that person some advice, what, what would you even say to them?

Wow, that's a. That's a great question. And I think the advice that I would give back to that person would be, is, is they. They have to prioritize in their lives what is most important to them? And, you know, I've known plenty hard chargers in my day. I was one of those hard chargers in my day when I was back in more of my entrepreneurial career and time. And depending on whether or not you're a person of faith or not. But if you're a person of faith, placing God in that number one spot in your life, placing my wife in the number two spot, placing my kids in the number three spot, and then placing my business in the number four spot. Now that might sound counterintuitive, but what I can tell you from my own personal business experience and from knowing many wildly successful business owners and entrepreneurs is that when they maintain things in that hierarchy, in that order within their, within their life, things just have a way of working out better all the way around. Goes back to kind of like what we open this podcast on, which was, you know, the idea that, that our. The condition of our personal lives, the condition of our marriages, the condition of. Of our families will bleed over in a negative way into our business and our professional lives. And so if I can make sure that those things most dear, most important to me are healthy and thriving, that's going to motivate me that much more to take that same attitude, that same tenaciousness into my business, into my businesses, and bring that same level of, of. Of passion and effort that I. That I am doing. On the, the family relational side.

Yeah, it's, you know, it runs rampant in the real estate industry. There was, I won't name the mastermind, but I went to a mastermind. It was highly recommended to me. This was in like 2015. So this was just as. My coaching was even, like, barely getting started, but I had achieved some pretty good success in the real estate side. And all of the guys, like, were just wildly successful. Like, and I put quotes around, if you're not watching the video, wildly successful with quotes around them. You know, they, they had a. This way of like, looking at your net worth and like, are you financially free? And, and. And they had a framework that was like, it was obviously missing family. Like, it literally wasn't in the framework. It included personal things like your physical body, like physical fitness. Clearly. I mean, the guys that were running it were like, dialed in on their fitness, but they were all like, one of them had multiple divorces and, you know, they were all divorced and you know, so instantly I was just like. And I, the feedback, they asked for feedback and I said it was just missing. Like I, I said faith and family were just missing from the entire conversation. And a bunch of just hard charging guys in a room, the F bombs like just all over the place. And I just get a sense that it's not specific to real estate, but there are, there are these like hard charging. I, I know there are women that are hard charging, but I liken it more to the, to the men's side where like they're just beating their chest with their, their wins and they're, I know they're failing on, on multiple fronts, you know, with their physical body or their, their marriage and their kids. They've got no connection with their kids and they're not spending any time with their creator and they're just way off track. And it's, the whole priorities are what we do. Everything else is just talk. So I don't know if there's any comment you have on that, but believe something that is not going away in, in business.

No, absolutely not. You know, and I'm, you know, I'm 58, going on 59 later this year. And you know, in, in the, the pinnacle of my entrepreneurial business ownership season of life, I was in my mid to late 30s, and at that season of life, I was making more money than I knew what to do with. I mean, I was wildly successful for a 35, 36, 37, 38 year old young man, had a beautiful wife at home, had three little kids at home, working 80 plus hours a week and, and in the blink of an eye, it was all taken away from me and I essentially had to start from square one all over again. And I learned a level of contentedness in that season of my life that was arguably perhaps, but the lowest season of my life professionally, personally. And, and I really realized what was important to me and what my, what I wanted my legacy to look like and to become. And you know, I thought to myself that I could have all the money in the world, I could have all the freedoms in the world that money could provide me potentially. But if my marriage wasn't right, if my parenting wasn't right, if I wasn't raising kids that would, would grow up, you know, to be responsible, contributing adults and launch well into their adult lives and married lives and parenting lives, that, I mean, what is, what is all of this for? I mean, what, what, what is all of this worth if, if, if I'm not paying attention to that which is most important to me, which is my, My marriage, because I was married, and, and my parenting, because I was a parent of three amazing kids. So it, it just totally shifted my. My mindset. And the moment I started managing my life that way, the, The. The. The future business dealings, the future way I went about things, it. It just. It just happened much more naturally. I didn't have to be so crazy busy. I could manage my work schedule better. I always made sure that my wife and family was getting the time that they needed. And I realized that tomorrow is a new day. I mean, everything. There's nothing that can't wait till tomorrow. I mean, at the end of the day. And so just really changed my whole mindset on what successful looked like.

Yeah, it's, you know, just turning 50. You know, when I, when I turned 44, I was listening to the book Halftime by Bob Buford. I was literally running a long run at the beach when I turned 44. And I'm like, well, this is obviously my halftime. You know, I love even numbers. I'm like, 22, 44, 66, 88. I'm gonna die when I'm 88. But then when you turn 50, you're like, this is halftime.

Yeah.

And I had. Nothing really shifted in me. And the whole point of me saying this, you know, so now I'm 50, where, you know, my kids are 8th, rising 8th and rising 11th, 10th grader. So three and five years, you know, left until they potentially, you know, leave the home, go to college. So now it's really like, I mean, you know, brings up the question, like, how do you want to be remembered? You know, I did a decent job in the last five years. Probably not as good a job in the first five years of their lives in terms of the balance part of the equation. But wherever you are in your journey, when you ask yourself the question, like, how do you want to be remembered? You know, I want to have a strong. I want to. My faith. Like, I just want to do things here that have an impact.

Yeah.

You know, and not be so caught up. And I. I've spent seasons where it's been all about the money, and I've been so driven and, you know, and. And way too much emphasis put on things that. That don't matter. So all of this is just an awesome, awesome conversation. What's the easiest way, best way that people can get in touch with you if they know, you know, an acute sort of chronic situation, things are hitting the fan, or they just know, like, anyone needs to Have a coach in every area of their life where they want to be successful. What's the easiest way to get in touch with you?

Easiest way would be to find me online. Agape A G A P E pastoralservices.com you can search that business name on Facebook and find my Facebook page. Can communicate to me through either of those means. And I would love to have a conversation with any couple, any male individual that is looking for ways in which they can become the best versions of themselves and accomplish what they need to accomplish.

Yeah, that's awesome. And I really just to end on, on this thought because it really struck me the way you said it, you know, taking those 14 rules, you have the ability and husbands, you have the ability to 100% turn around the relationship you have with your spouse. And we share the same faith, so we believe it's grounded in faith first. Even if that's not your belief, you have the 100% ability to love your wife. Well, in a way where it can just blossom and like a virtuous cycle versus what's normally a vicious cycle, you know, where you each shut off a little bit more every day and then there's sort of nothing left and it drifts so far apart where you're like, who are you? Who are you? Why have I put up with you for 20 years? The kids are out of the house. Like that's a normal thing these days. Like, wait, how did you guys get divorced after 30 years? Like, right? There's no marriage there. We just had, it was convenience. We lived together and we had kids.

Right?

And I just, I don't want that to happen. I brought that out to my wife one time. I'm like, honey, like, we need to get a coach for our marriage. She's like, what's wrong with our marriage? I'm like, nothing, probably. But I know that like well intentioned people, you know, divorce all the time. When the kids leave the house, you know, and we lean on the kids and other things that keep us busy and then we realize that we really weren't, you know, living as one. We weren't truly connected. And you know, so it does take a little bit of forethought and kind of thinking ahead about like, I don't want to regret, you know, I don't want a divorce. I don't want, you know, a weak marriage, you know, any of that stuff. So, Todd, I appreciate your heart and your time and I'm sure we're going to have many, many more conversations. I'd love to make you regular part of this community because I know it's, it's the single most important thing we can focus on our faith, family and building that first. And I believe all the good stuff comes as a result of it. And I'm just intrigued and encouraged by your journey and, you know, being at the halftime, maybe I'm just stalled in halftime as he talks about one of his other books. But, you know, I too am looking for, like, what is my next step? You know, I've, I've conquered, you know, quote unquote conquered in business and driven that fast car. And, you know, maybe God has something in store, you know, different for me. Like he obviously and clearly does for you and your heart around and your ministry around helping folks in the marriage union. So I love you, brother. And I pray for continued success and joy and reach and just the strength and courage to do all of it. So we'll definitely have you back soon.

All right. Thank you, sir. Have a great day.

See you, Todd.

Thanks for listening. Would you please take a minute to share the show with other agents who may be struggling? And if you love the podcast, please leave us a five star review on Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcast platform. And make sure you visit ScaleOrDiebook.com to get a free copy of my book. It's a nuts and bolts guide to building a real estate business that gives you true time and money freedom so that you can live your life without regrets. Thanks again and see you on the next episode.