EP20 - Sharpen The Sword: From Speakeasy to Surgery - Empathy and Conflict Lessons with Kenneth A...

In every operating room, in every ward, in every clinic, and every team meeting, a silent battle brews. Conflict, negotiation, identity. Welcome to the Scalpel and Sword podcast, where I, Dr. Lee Sharma, physician and conflict analyst, Explore the hidden negotiations beyond modern medicine. Let's trade burnout for boundaries and learn the art of healing with precision and power. Hello, my peaceful warriors. I wanted to let you know about a new episode feature on the Scalpel and Sword podcast. It's called Sharpen the Sword. And one of the things that's great about conflict and conflict resolution Is it is unfortunately pervasive, but because it is pervasive, we have lots of different arenas from which we can learn. And I'm really excited to invite guests from different professions to join us on The Scalpel and Sword to give us an insight into how they manage conflict, and we can learn from how they do it. So look for a new episode, our new feature, and it's coming up soon. So make sure you tune in for that. And as always, peaceful warriors, be at peace. Welcome to the Scalpel and Sword podcast. I am your host, Dr. Lee Sharma, physician and conflict analyst. And I'm very excited because this is a sort of new series offering on the Scalpel and Sword podcast. And I'm calling this Sharpen the Sword. And what we're doing is we're actually talking to people in other industries and learning about their situations and learning about the conflicts they work through and see how it informs our practice as medical professionals. And I think one of the greatest acts of humility is understanding that we really can learn from anybody. And so this is the first in our Sharpen the Sword series. And I'm so excited to have on the podcast today, Kenny Cox. Kenny is the manager of Sneak and Dawdle, which is an amazing bar speakeasy in Opelika, Alabama.

Yeah.

He is a great manager. He is also my son's manager, which is how I met him. And I'm so happy to have him on the podcast. Welcome, Kenny.

Thank you. I'm blessed to be here.

I'm so happy to have you here. How long have you been doing this? How long have you been working in this industry?

In the industry, I guess 15 years now.

Wow. So lots of experience, not all at Sneak and Dawdle. Was Sneak and Dawdle your first manager position or had you done that before?

Oh no, it's definitely not my first manager position. So the way I got introduced into this industry is my dad retired from the actual medical field. He worked with oncology supply, like supplying cancer medication. He built a big company doing that and he retired. One of his big dreams was to have a restaurant cuz he's like a big foodie.

Mm-hmm.

And so I just started like washing dishes back then for him to help him out back when I was 20. I still had a farm back then. I used to sell them food, but anyway, he just needed extra help. So I started washing dishes, worked my way into the kitchen, just necessity. And then we had a bartender that worked there. They ended up putting in, just necessity once again, he was like, you want to try this? And I was super shy back then. I was like, I don't think I want to be in front of people. But that's basically how I got introduced to it. Like just by necessity, like needing somebody up there. That was when I was 21 and I've been doing it ever since. So that was his restaurant, but me and him started a liquor store after that, like together.

Mm-hmm.

As a team group thing. And so that was my first introductory into managing, like having that liquor store and having to talk to people about when to be here, when to not be here, and being like a boss a little bit. That was when I was 24, I think would be like my first introductory to management.

Yeah. Got it. But also too, one of the things like just briefly listening to your story, you definitely got a feel for working your way up through a hierarchy. I mean, you started washing dishes and you worked your way up into that. So you had a familiarity with how things work. You got to see it from like several different perspectives. And I think that's something that also happens in medicine where we start way low and we have to work our way up, but as a result, we have a familiarity With that hierarchy and the way things work, do you feel like that helped you as you stepped into that manager role? I mean, it sounds like you said it was something that you did out of necessity, but did it help you to start way up from there?

Yeah, I think it always helps to like know every part of the machine and also like know the way people feel.

Mm-hmm.

Aren't at the top of the machine, knowing how it feels to be a dishwasher and like be genuine and be able to like understand their feelings if they're having a good day or a bad day. I've been there. I know how to do that too, or like You can talk to them more genuinely. And maybe it doesn't seem like I'm talking to them now that way, but maybe they could just feel that I understand it because I just didn't get thrown to the wolves.

What's so beautiful about what you just said and why I love that, and I'm sure this is why, and I do want to share with the listeners that my son Sam, who now works at Sneak, and that's by far his favorite job that he's ever had. He loves being at Sneak and Dawdle and he's worked for a lot of people and And he told me point blank, Kenny is a great manager. He's the best manager I've ever had. And so when your child says that to you, that definitely gives you the warm fuzzy, you know, that makes you feel good about them being happy where they work. But one of the things that you just said that I want to kind of circle back to, because I think it's so beautiful, is that you talked about understanding the way that the people in those positions feel.

Yeah.

It's not a matter of the mechanics of the job. You actually really think about how did I feel when I was in each of those? And because I have some insight into how I felt in those roles, I can carry that into that interaction. I think that's something that's really hard for a lot of people, especially higher up in hierarchy. Sometimes you forget that. Sometimes you maybe didn't really think about how you felt yourself. So was that something that you had to consciously think about how you felt in those positions, or did that come naturally to you?

Yeah, I think it just comes naturally. Love always wins. Just, I don't know. I just always go with, like, I was about to leave. I wasn't even gonna take this job. Matt offered it to me. I'm glad he did. They actually like needed help and I was making money like painting houses. A lot of people reached out to him. I was like, you should talk to Kenny. He's done all this stuff before.

Mm-hmm.

I've owned bars and owned places and sold 'em and got rid of 'em and did all this stuff. But I was just about to move back home. So it was kind of a crazy year to pick me, but it's obviously like a good choice in my opinion, cuz I just know everything about the business. So I didn't need much training, but it's kind of crazy that I was about to leave.

Yeah.

I was like, I'll give you one year. And I've been here like almost 3 years now. Mm-hmm.

Yep.

But I do love the job. I definitely love Sammy. All the employees I've had, I really have enjoyed. I hate not letting people go, but watching people leave. But everybody that leaves is moving to better and bigger things. They're not leaving because of the job, which is what I really care about, like making sure everybody's happy while we're here. I want it to be fun to come to work.

But that—

Work kind of stinks, but if you can laugh and have a little bit of love going on and like a connection, While it's going on, it becomes a family instead of a job. And we're always here for each other. And even while we're not at work, everybody can call each other and talk about stuff. And we go out to eat and do like little gigs on the side. It's kind of fun, you know.

With your experience that you've had, first of all, Matt reached out to you because you had lots of people who vouched for you. And that says a lot about who you are and what you've given to the industry and how you are as a human being and that you come from that place of love. And so that says a lot that people recommended you to Matt. But also, I really love and respect the fact that when people are leaving you, that you verbalize that they're moving, they're going to other things. They're actually elevating. They're doing other things that they've moved to a different place that they are really seeking out. And I think that you have to, on some level, accept that your environment that you've created them at Snyk. Makes it easy for people to move into that. I love the fact that you're not, oh my gosh, I hate it. This person left. It's more, I love where this person's going. And I don't think I saw that as beautifully as 2 weeks ago at Southeastern Bar. We were there for the cocktail competition and all of Sam's friends were there. Everybody from The Hound was there. You were there with your family. And I just remember looking around and thinking, is there any greater blessing than to have this team of people here cheering you on? I mean, the fact that he won was just icing on the cake. The fact that everybody was there and was supporting him, especially as a mom, that just warmed my heart beyond belief. You talk about too, that you try to create this family environment. It's not just where people are coming to work. You're actually trying to create that environment. And you mentioned a couple of things in terms of creating that environment. Are those things that you're intentionally doing to create that vibe?

Yeah, like I said, I think most everything just comes outta love and I don't necessarily wanna be at work either. So like wherever I go in my life, whether that's home, church, anywhere I go, I just want it to be like fun.

Yeah.

I don't know why not have fun, but since I am the boss, I get to create my work environment, which is really like a big blessing. I'm not going to work for somebody else. You get to create that environment. And if I'm gonna go anywhere, I like to have fun. So I don't have any bullet points on what I do. I just do it through love and that if I go somewhere, I want it to be fun. Whether that's going to the pool, going home, going to the baseball field with my kids. I just want it to be like my aura around me. You know, you can create your own life.

Mm-hmm.

It's all like up here.

What?

I want the people around me To be having, creating their life with me. And I just want it to be fun and enjoyable. I don't really offend anybody. I think I'm just really easy to get along with and maybe that helps. I'm not like a bossy boss. That gets a lot of respect. If I need something done, I can ask somebody and they don't take it as, hey, you gotta do this right now. If I really need something done, I can ask somebody and they will gladly do it because I'm not that person.

Mm-hmm.

You're not like rejecting me, you know? I've worked for bosses like that, you know, where it's like, I know I have to do this, but I kind of don't want to because he's being mean. But if they were just like nice about it, I would just go do it like gladly. I don't know. I guess your question is like, is there intention? I don't do anything intentionally. I just be myself. I just want everybody to be happy around me.

But that to me though, especially as a leader and somebody who's trying to create an environment that's gonna be effective where people can do their jobs and yes, we're at work, but we also wanna have a good time. It's also very interesting. I think as our listeners are part of taking this in, we think about medicine as not necessarily something where we have a good time. I think a lot of times, and I think that's something definitely I can take my job very seriously and I should, but also too, there's points like I want to love on people. I want to enjoy being around my patients. I want to actually cultivate a nice relationship with them. And I think the relationship like you do at work comes first. That as you cultivate that relationship and as you're bringing that love into that relationship, and that doesn't matter what you're doing at work, if that's working with patients, if that's working with other healthcare professionals, if that's working in bar and restaurant industry, that the energy you're putting out, which is primarily a love energy. I mean, I'm doing this because I care. I'm doing this because I love. This is my motivation. People sense that. People actually pick up on that. And as a result, when you do have to go into more of that, because definitely in my world that happens. And I'm sure it happens in your world too, when y'all are stacked and you've got tickets going all the way down the bar, that it's a lot easier for me to say, love you, mean it, I need this done right now. And they understand where I'm coming from because hopefully I have built that relationship based on love. And so when I'm asking for something to be done right then, people understand, okay, this is not dictatorial. This is a love relationship and she needs me to do this now. So I'm going to do this now. And you have created that as well. And I want to come back to this because I think in terms of working through conflict, because it's inevitable that it happens in any work environment, anywhere we are, conflict is inevitable. But one of the things that my husband always says to me when I leave, we kiss each other goodbye and we leave for the day. One of the things that he says to me every day is laugh. He says that every day out the door. It's like, I love you. Have a good day. Remember to laugh.

Right.

And he says it to me every morning. And you definitely, with what he does, I mean, he does pulmonary critical care sleep. He's doing bronchoscopies on patients and working in the intensive care unit. And when someone like that can say to you, remember to laugh, that's very powerful. I love those. And if you— he is an absolute gem, is just a force for good. But when someone you love, someone who you respect tells you, remember to laugh. I do think not only does that set your mind for the day as you're leaving and you're going out the door and you're going to do whatever you're doing, it also keeps you in a space where you're not taking yourself so seriously, where you're not taking people you work with so seriously. You give them grace, you give them a place to be who they are. And I think when conflicts do arise, it's a lot easier to deal with it if you've created that. energy, like you talked about, that you have an aura, that you're literally with the love that you have, that you are creating that, and that creates a space for other people to feel that. And as a result, as a leader and as a manager, that's something that you're able to give to them too. And I think they definitely feel that. Just looking at all the people and talking to all the people that have worked at Sneak and have worked with you, I definitely see that. And I can see it there when you guys are all together. Is that a different vibe from when you were an owner of a bar as opposed to being a manager?

No. So I had a unit at a liquor store. I managed the bar that my dad had, and then me and him also invested in a pizza place, which we had for about 3 and a half years and ended up selling it. It was called Graffiti's.

Mm-hmm.

But no, it's kind of crazy. Like the liquor store, for instance, I had a really good manager, Cam Melinda. I could trust her with my life. She was awesome. But, um, I would put her in charge of hiring and stuff if we ever needed somebody new or somebody left or whatever. They would have somebody hired and I would just walk in there and it'd be like a new person. And they would always just introduce me. It was like, this is Kenny. He's the owner. He's the coolest boss in the world. Even like back then, I wasn't hands-off, but I wasn't like managing necessarily. I was just doing a lot of like all the ordering and paying the bills and doing all that kind of stuff. But Like I said, Kim Melendez, shout out. I trusted her, but even back then, you know, that's kind of crazy. They would just be like, it's Kenny. He's the coolest boss in the world. And I'm not trying to be that. I don't know. It seems like kind of egotistic. I don't even think about it for real. I just want everybody to be happy.

Yeah.

So.

And verbalize it. In the sitcom, The Office, which again, Sam loves The Office, and I think everybody in this house has watched it the entire way through. And Michael Scott has a little statue on his desk that says best boss ever, I think is what it says. But if you really are a great person to work with and work for, like you said, that's not something that's going to be ego-driven. It shouldn't be.

If it was ego-driven, it probably wouldn't work. Right.

Precisely that. If you are trying to be the best boss in the world just because you wanted the ego pump, it's never going to work. It has to come from that place of humility and love and That to me, I think is what you do really well.

Which it also goes back to like what we're originally talking about, knowing the lower stages, starting from the bottom and going up and knowing all the pieces of the machine. I think that really is the key thing of being a good boss versus going to college and coming out with a degree and going straight into a position of management or something like that. And you haven't seen, you can't relate to the people that, not lesser than you, but Are just getting their start, you know what I mean?

But I have been warned about that. Like, as I got into the world of consulting, I had a mentor who actually said to me, you gotta be really careful cuz you're gonna have people that rolled out of undergraduate that have a degree in consulting that think they're gonna tell you after 25 years of working in the industry that they know more than you. And sometimes you're just gonna have to smile and just kind of let them make their mistakes because they're not ready to listen to you. And I thought that was interesting that because of your journey and because of what you've done and who you are, you are willing to listen. You have that ability to be humble and listen to people. And I think that's really hard, as you said, if you've jumped right into that management position.

Yeah. You skipped a bunch of bases. Yeah. You gotta go to first, second, and third before you can get home. Start at home. It's like kind of crazy.

But I love how you say that. That's so true. As you are talking about this and as you're talking about, you know, kind of how you manage and how you lead, and again, I've seen you guys at work. I've seen you guys when you're slammed. I know how busy it gets. Because your space in leadership, you're coming from this very humble, loving space, but you also really verbalize the fact that the people who work for you say that you're the best boss and they're obviously still getting the job done. They're not slacking on you because, oh, it's Kenny, he won't, do anything to me. They are still rising to the level of what you expect from them and they're still doing a great job. And obviously, again, you've been in this job for 3 years. You know, Matt knows, everybody knows that you're doing a great job with it. How do you walk that line between being this very loving human being, which you absolutely are, and still being a great boss?

That's a great question. I'm not really sure. I just am who I am. I'm very knowledgeable, so maybe just like the knowledge people understand, like I know a lot and maybe that makes them feel more confident. Like when they're at work, they know that they can ask me for anything or any kind of help or whatever, whether that's like a drink recipe or just like a life question. Because I have a family too, you know, a lot of these people that work for me, they're younger and they don't, they might have a girlfriend or something, but I'm the only person with kids usually. Mm-hmm. I don't know. Maybe it's just the confidence of, maybe I put confidence on them without knowing, and that makes them more comfortable. I'm not really sure.

But what you said is a great answer that the way that you are filling this role and being so effective at it, yes, you're a very loving person and you create that space, but you're also very good at what you do. And I think there's a lot in expertise that people see if your skillset is something Again, it's something that it's part of you. You have a lived experience in that skillset. You've worked hard to develop that skillset. But one of the things that I keep coming back to as we're talking, which I think plays a very, very big part in why you're such a good leader and manager, is you have a lack of ego. All of this stuff that we're talking about that you have and you own, this is not a, hey, I'm Kenny and I'm an awesome bartender. That's not your space at all. It is, I love and I care the people I work with and who work for me, but I also have a lot of expertise that I'm willing to share. And here it is. I'm sharing it with you. I'm giving this to you in such a way that you know that I care about you. I am not talking down to you. If you've ever watched, okay. And I can say this and yes, I'm his mother, but I still would say this to his face. And I tell this to people all the time. Sam is the best teacher I have ever seen. He has a beautiful teaching spirit. The way that he explains things to people. It may be very elementary to him and it may be very hard for you, but you would never know that when he teaches you. It is this absolutely lovely, humble spirit. His dad is the exact same way, but you definitely seem to have that too. You know, the ability to teach somebody something that you know really well, but to present it in such a way that person feels like they're receiving knowledge, not like they're being talked down to. That's hard. That's not something that people, I mean, for me, I have been blessed because I have had my husband and I have had Sam. So I have had people model this for me. So I have tried to become more like them in the way that I teach things, because that's not something that comes naturally to me, but it sounds like it is something that comes naturally to you.

Yeah. So I was just about to say, it's kind of funny. Like, I definitely see that in Sam. Sam's amazing with like teaching. That's One thing that me and him talk about a lot is like doing classes. You know, we both did DCI. He wants to go teach. There's not enough money in it. And, you know, like the whole thing, but it's so funny that comes naturally. Like I've never even thought about it. And I think Sam's that way. He just naturally is just like that. It is something, you know, that can be learned. And that's probably one thing we're talking about today, you know, is.

Yeah.

With the whole management thing, there are points that you can learn, but there is something about it just being like natural that I guess my dad was like, my dad was like really good about managing. Like, so he coached soccer, like he coached a travel team one year younger than me. So my brother played for it and they went like 92 games in a row without losing. And like, wow. It got so boring for them. They started playing up an age group like the last year and still went undefeated. So like almost 3 years straight undefeated. Oh my God. And then they moved up an age group. But like, my dad's really good. There was a lot of kids, like travel soccer costs like a lot of money to play. So my dad would do like car washes and fundraisers to pay for other kids so he could recruit 'em or not recruit 'em, but keep them on the team because their family couldn't afford to pay. I don't think he would do stuff like that.

That's really cool.

I'm getting off topic.

So you think, but, uh, natural, but you definitely also had a figure, had your father who modeled that behavior for you in another field, who modeled that for you in sports. And so, you know, again, you had somebody that you could look up to that had a way of teaching and a way of presenting information that was humble and inviting. And as a result, people bought into that. And so, you definitely carry that at work. I also really love the fact that you encourage creativity. I mean, I know you encourage people to try and branch out and spread their wings a little bit.

Right.

And you have to be a confident manager to do that. Just like for physicians, if you have a medical student or a resident that says, I think this would be appropriate management for this patient. You kind of have to be the person who says, you know, oh my gosh, that is a great idea. But then you have to let that person chase that without any ego on your side. It's like, that person thought of that and I didn't think of that. And I think especially in medicine, sometimes that's really hard for people to do. But because we have the patient and the patient is a primary priority, the ego gets pushed to the side. That you can very confidently say, I am not the important actor in this. And same thing for you guys. You know, I know talking to Sam and how passionately he feels about bartending and creativity.

Yeah.

That when he makes a drink for somebody, it is him putting his love and his soul in a glass for another human. I know that's really how he thinks about it. And so when you have that confidence in yourself, it's easier to encourage creativity on the part of other people.

Yeah. So I'm an artist by trade or not even by choice. I've been drawing since I was 5 years old. That's the youngest I can remember.

Hmm.

I've been painting trains and photo, went to school for photography, graphic design. I'm a musician. There's all creativity. But what I really try to do here on top of making the environment comfortable is creativity. One thing I really promote, especially with Sam, he's my little guinea pig, but it's like making drinks that you can't get this anywhere else in the world. So let's make something that when they come in here and they get it, they're not gonna be like, oh, I can go to New York City and probably order this. Nope. I want it to be, it only exists here and this is the only place that exists.

Yeah.

You know what I mean? And we're the only people that know how to make the syrup for it. And it, it's not written down in a book. It's not published online. This is the only place you can get this drink.

Mm-hmm.

And we might only run it for one week if we're gonna replace it. We've got new drinks coming. We got 3 new drinks coming out next week. We're super excited about it. And one of 'em's a mushroom drink.

Ooh.

Like, who's doing that kind of stuff?

Right, right.

Creativity is big, just like in general in my life. Once again, if you're around me and you're in my aura, that's gonna be part of it. I definitely promote creativity a lot. I got a question for you. Is there any kind of creativity in the medical field? Is there room for creativity? I don't see where it would exist because it seems so cut and dry. Like if you have this, you need to treat it with this, like this. And is there any room for creativity?

That is an awesome question. And the answer is definitely yes. And I think the creativity really is probably threefold. I mean, the first creativity is going to be research, people who are asking a question. The good research to me, 99% of the time comes out of a question. Is there a better way to treat this illness? Is there something else that we've learned about this physiology that we can now approach differently now that we have this knowledge base? And so I think that's probably the first in terms of research and people asking a question, something they're generally coming across with in their daily life and practice. I've been treating this disease with X. Is there a better way to do this? And that's the first one. That's the first probably sphere of creativity. The second one I think is always going to be sort of the mechanics of our practice. And a lot of that's going to be, and that's kind of my space. This is why I have the podcast and why I love what I do. Is there a better way to look at the way that humans interact? Is there a better way to make people feel good at work? Is there a better way for them to handle the conflicts, you know, One of my guests, it was Natalie Simpkins, and she's now a doctor in North Alabama. But the very first night that Sneak opened, which was New Year's Eve 2017 or '18, and I can't remember which, but my husband and I had left a New Year's Eve party that we did not like anybody there. Natalie and Daniel, her now husband, had left a New Year's Eve party that they didn't like anybody there. And so we ran into them in downtown Opelika. It's like, hey, we're going to this new bar, Sneak and Dawdle. Do you want to go with us? And they're like, yeah. And we literally got there, I think at like 8:30 or 9 o'clock. And we were there till midnight and just had the most marvelous time with them. So Sneak is very close to my heart with Natalie. But one of the things that Natalie said in her podcast when she was on the show was the practice of medicine is very sticky. It's very sticky in terms of humanity, in terms of the issues that we work with. And so being able to be creative with how we work with each other. You talked about the machine of being in a restaurant and how that machine functions. Medicine's very much that. And how do we look at this machine and how do we sort of approach the stickiness in such a way that we're feeling better at work, that we have that love in our sphere, and that we're carrying that to the patients? I think that's the second one.

Yeah, you gotta lubricate the machine.

Yes. And I think learning how to do that, because unfortunately, Kenny, that's not something we're taught. You know, you might have a mentor or a colleague or someone that you've worked with that's been instrumental in showing you these things and you've been able to mirror them. But if you were not blessed enough to have that, it's really hard to learn that. And I think for me, I did my master's in conflict resolution because I thought I hated practicing medicine. I really didn't. I was in my job for 2 and a half years and I thought I just didn't like it. And when you spent 12 years of your life learning how to do something, it's like, I don't like what I'm doing. And then I did my master's in conflict resolution. It's like, oh my gosh, no, I like what I do. I just didn't know how to handle this stuff. And once I had a toolbox to handle it, it's like, oh my gosh, no, I really do like what I do. So that, I think that's the second one. And I think the third sort of sphere of creativity really does come with how we approach the relationship between the caregiver and the patient. That's also a very creative pursuit. How do you build that relationship? What tools do you have to create the sphere of love? And I think this is the reason why I'm going to love doing this Sharpen the Sword series. Just talking with you has made me This is why this is going to be so great because again, so many people just learning how to have that relationship. How do you talk to a patient who maybe every doctor they've ever seen in their lives, no one's listened to them and they're now in your office. And so they've now built up this worldview that the medical community as a whole does not care. And this is the worldview they're walking into your office with. Very scary. But they're now sitting in front of you. And so your job now in that role, you are the representative of the entire medical profession. Now that means that you have an opportunity to be creative in that relationship and help this person buy back into this community. So being creative in how that relationship looks can be very powerful. You know, you talk to people like my dad, my dad was a general surgeon. My dad absolutely believed the practice of medicine is an art. It's the only science-driven discipline That is also artistic. It is artistic in the way we approach it. The artistic in the way we see it. You know, when the patient presents with an illness, it's like a painting. And I know that sounds strange, but if you see the painting over and over and over, it doesn't take you much time to realize that's the painting I'm looking at. But you have to look at a billion paintings to get to that point. There's so much in the art of medicine that's very real and it's very vibrant, and it is the only scientific discipline. where I think you get to marry those 2. If you look at straight chemistry, straight engineering, now our engineers might argue with me that there's art in engineering, and even chemists might argue with me saying there's art in chemistry. But for me, just as a scientist, I definitely feel the art in medicine.

That's awesome. That was such a great answer. Yeah, I just always wondered what that meant.

That's a great question.

Yeah, because It seems so. And like what you said, like the patient on the other side, you know, it seems so cut and dry. Also, I've had physical therapists, like after I've broken bones and stuff like that, I've had better ones than other ones. And it's all about that relationship. It's like, there is a certain way to fix this. I feel more comfortable with this person letting me, you know, fixing it. It's like not fixing it, but walking me through the physical therapy. It's just like—

Yeah.

More of a relationship versus like, oh, I gotta go do this physical therapy thing. It's like, no, I gotta go over there with Jake. He's like super cool to be with, you know? So yeah.

Yep.

Creativity coming through that personality makes a huge difference. I've never even really thought about it.

Yeah. And again, this is one of the reasons I'm so, so grateful that you gave of your time. You were so generous with your spirit to be with us on the podcast today. This has been a fantastic discussion. So if people want to seek out Sneak and Dawdle, if they want to come visit and have a cocktail that they can't have anyplace else on the planet, what's the easiest way for them to follow you guys on socials?

We have Sneak and Dawdle on Instagram. We don't do a lot of social media. We don't even have a phone number. So it's a speakeasy for a reason. I love it. 717 Sweet Bay, 1st Avenue. Opelika, Alabama.

Look for the golden bear on the door.

Yeah.

Yep.

That's it.

Kenny, this has been fantastic. Thank you so much for being on the podcast. I was so curious to see how this was going to go. This is our first Sharpen the Sword episode, and I think it's been brilliant, and I really appreciate you being here. Thank you.

Hey, let's do it again.

Absolutely. Thank you so much. For all of my peaceful warriors, I hope you enjoyed, and please let me know how you thought this first episode of our Sharpen the Sword series was for you. And in the meantime, all of my peaceful warriors, be at peace. Every episode is an invitation to speak, to negotiate, to choose. I'm Dr. Lee Sharma. Join the dialogue. by subscribing to Scalpel and Sword. Until next time, peaceful warriors, may your choices be sharp and your voice be even sharper. This podcast is a reflection of lived experience and research in conflict resolution. The Scalpel and Sword is not intended as medical or legal guidance. For personal matters, please consult a qualified professional.