EP29 – From Conflict-Avoidant Introvert to Empowered Leader: Dr. Asha Padmanabhan’s Playbook for ...

In every operating room, in every ward, in every clinic, and every team meeting, a silent battle brews. Conflict, negotiation, identity. Welcome to the Scalpel and Sword podcast, where I, Dr. Lee Sharma, physician and conflict analyst, Explore the hidden negotiations behind modern medicine. Let's trade burnout for boundaries and learn the art of healing with precision and power.

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Hello, my peaceful warriors. Welcome to the Scalpel and Sword podcast. I am your host, Dr. Lee Sharma, physician and conflict analyst. And I am so excited to have on the podcast today, Dr. Asha Padmanabhan. She is an anesthesiologist. She trained in the UK for anesthesia and then moved to the United States where she did her residency at Beth Israel Deaconess Hospital in Boston, which is incidentally where my husband was born. She did a stint as an attending at Bayview Johns Hopkins Baltimore as an academic anesthesiologist before she moved to South Florida. She's been in private practice. She is a past president of the Florida Society of Anesthesiologists, and she is also a physician coach, a speaker. She has a wonderful website called theleadershiprx.com where you can also find her podcast and her blog. She is passionate about women physicians finding their voice, and I am so excited she's on the podcast today. Asha, welcome.

Thank you. I am so excited to be here.

Oh my gosh. So one of the things that you have on your website that I loved just right off the jump is you describe yourself as an accidental leader.

Yes.

So what was accidental about your journey into leadership?

The first part is I did not think of myself as a leader, which I think now looking back, a lot of women physicians relate to that because most of us do not think of ourselves as leader. And my journey into leadership really started because I was faced with a situation where I had to step up or our group, my private practice group at the time, would face significant challenges since our leader at the time had stepped down. So knowing that none of the other partners at the time had any interest in leadership and trying to figure out how we would pay our staff of about 25 people the next month was what kind of forced my hand into stepping up into leadership.

Wow.

So as you found yourself in this challenging situation, what kind of things did you realize you really had to learn to actually take charge, to be that person?

Oh, so many things. I think that first year was just such a big rollercoaster of lessons because we as physicians are not taught a lot of these things in terms of— we're not taught the business of medicine, we're not taught the skills needed to be a leader, we're not taught the negotiation, conflict resolution, communication, all of that. So it was a huge learning experience because not only did I have to step up and manage the interpersonal skills of dealing with the C-suite, the team, but at the same time, I had to learn the business of medicine as well, all within that first year. It took a while, but I think that was the biggest challenge that faced starting there. And then, of course, after that, every step brings more challenges and more leadership skills are needed to be learned. But I think that's where it all started is figuring out that I I did not have the business skills, and I did not have the interpersonal skills.

How incredible that you had to learn all of these things in terms of business, negotiation, conflict resolution. You're learning these things on the fly as you're in the position, and then you're also practicing as well. So, you're having so many hats on at once and trying to actually absorb all of this, which is just tremendous that you did it. And not only that you did it, but you're really trying to show other people how to have those skills as well. One of the things that you also talk about when you describe yourself, when you're speaking and when you're on your blog and doing your podcast, is you describe yourself as somebody who's soft-spoken and introverted.

Yes.

So, what was that like for you? First of all, the fact that you describe yourself that way shows this amazing amount of self-reflection and awareness that you yourself know, OK, I know this is who I am, and I know it, and I love it, and I own it. But I also understand that my leadership and the way that I interact in a conflict situation might be different than maybe somebody who is not that same self-descriptor.

Absolutely. So I knew, I've always known I am that kind of person. I was a big conflict avoider as well, which really, I did not think about it as anything different other than that's who I was. And then I stepped into this leadership role and I had to attend leadership meetings. And in the beginning, I was, like you would say, the person in the back row of the room keeping quiet, and soon realized that's not gonna work in the position that I'm in if I have to do justice to my role as a leader in this group representing my group to the hospital. And so I started taking a lot of courses, which kind of reinforced for me that this was who I was, but also There was a period of time when I started trying to be someone different, to be like the leader that you think is the stereotypical leader, loud and forthright, and found soon enough that didn't really bode well for my relationships at work. And that was a challenge. So, over a period of time, I learned that embracing what I was and leaning into that and learning how to manage Communication, conflict, all of that with my own strengths was a better fit for me than to try to be someone I wasn't.

Oh my gosh, I love that so much. I love that you sought to find your style of leadership, but you said something really cool in that that I want to jump back to, which is that a lot of what you were looking at in terms of a leadership style was something that had been modeled for you. You had actually seen somebody else. These were the people that I traditionally saw in the front of the room. These are the people that I saw running the board meetings. And so, on some level, you feel like, well, if I'm going to be successful as a leader, then I have to be what that person is.

Mm-hmm.

Instead of doing that, you actually chose what I think is a much more authentic and much more effective tack, which is, I'm going to learn my way of doing this. I'm going to develop my strengths, but I'm still going to be true to who I am. And as women, I think that's really powerful because That's something that, you know, and it's, I'm very thankful people like you that are stepping into leadership roles. We have different models now, which is great. We have different styles of leadership, but we're still having to follow that own authentic journey. And I love that you're doing that.

It was a hard lesson to learn because I did try the other style for a brief period of time. And it was so inauthentic that it didn't get me anywhere and I was unhappy with it. So I soon realized that does not work.

You also mentioned something in there that I wanna come back to because it's such an important concept and especially for women, the idea of being conflict avoidant.

Yes.

What does that look like in terms of if we're seeing somebody or if we're feeling that we ourselves might be conflict avoidant, what does that look like and what does that feel like?

Oh, that is such a beautiful topic because I feel like I've lived the last 15 years in this space. Of part of being an introvert, part of being soft-spoken is trying to please everyone and trying to keep everyone happy. And a lot of that I realized later on through being coached and through taking, I took a bunch of courses, how to manage conflict. But what I realized is my style was, as you said, conflict avoidant, or we called it the avoider, is basically where I would never speak up when Conflicts are so many different kinds, right? It's overt, loud, argumentative ones, but there's also the softer, trying to hide behind something else, not being direct, being passive-aggressive, all of those other ways of dealing with disagreements that are still present but are so ineffective. And my style was if someone approached me or was in my face aggressive, I would back off. And I would try to keep the peace. And then I would say to myself, I'm gonna come back later and address this. And that would never happen. And so the resentment would build up and I would feel ashamed and guilty that I wasn't speaking up when I should be being a leader. And so the avoidance pattern in me was that kind of reaction to conflict. And it took years to try to figure out that wasn't really doing me any justice, wasn't doing the situation any justice, and wasn't doing the team I was representing any justice.

100%.

I love how too, as you're talking about this, because being a conflict avoider, that's a very emotional experience. And one of the things that you verbalized so beautifully in there is the shame that comes with being an avoider. Because you feel like I'm avoiding that conflict and I'm ashamed of the fact I'm avoiding the conflict and I'm not speaking up because I'm scared in this situation. I don't know how to deal with it. I don't have any tools to deal with it. But then when I walk away from the situation after not saying anything, I feel really bad. Because I had an opportunity. Conflict very often, and I know you've seen this in your work as well, is very often an opportunity to make things better. Absolutely. It's an opportunity to make change. But if we're afraid to engage with that, we lose that opportunity and then we feel ashamed that we've lost it. As you work with women physicians and as you talk with them about how to engage, what do you teach them about engaging in conflict? Do you give them basic skills to work with that?

Yes, absolutely. So part of the ways I work with my clients is really going deep into emotional awareness. And part of this is emotional intelligence and self-awareness. And I think it has to start there because I thought that everyone, or not everyone, most people, many people had my style of conflict management because I saw much of that. And then there was the opposite.

Yeah.

part of it where the loud people, the ones who had the loudest voice and could talk over everyone else, and that was the other style of conflict. So those are the only 2. So learning that there are so many variations is the first thing. And then figuring out why my style was the way it was and helping my clients figure that out. Why is their style, what is their style and why is it that way? Then how do they best use that style to be more effective at conflict? And so I teach them kind of a framework of first becoming more self-aware. And then a very simple framework on how to approach conflict. And it's—

Mm-hmm.

I had learned, I had done so many courses and everyone was talking about you have to look for a win-win, you have to look at this, you have to look at that. And all of those were good, but in the moment I could not apply them. What I found easier was to figure out, okay, what is happening in the moment and stop there for a second. We all talk about pause, take a breath, take 5 breaths when you're, when someone is yelling at you. Then instead of trying to respond right away, most conflict happens because 2 people are stuck on a position and trying to get underneath it, trying to get underneath it, and then coming away with what would work best for both. Now, it sounds very easy. I call it the Q method, which is basically create space. Underneath the emotions and then explore a new way. But using that framework in the moment will just give you a little idea of how to handle this. And I can give you an example in the OR that might help your listeners to put a face to the name. So something that happens in the OR every day, the surgeon wants to do a case, the anesthesiologist wants to wait to get some labs. And anyone who's been in the OR has faced this many times, right?

Yeah.

So here I am standing there saying, okay, I need to get these labs. And the surgeon's like, no, I need to get moving right now. And what I teach is, okay, stop for a second. Don't react defensively because a lot of us do. And I, it's not a yelling match because my view is more important than your view. So stop, take a breath, then just give the underneath part of it. Okay, so where am I coming from? What do I need here? What is my fear here? My fear here is this, I don't have this lab and it might affect the way the medications that I give. That's great. That's my point of view. What is that surgeon's point of view here? What's underneath here for him or her? Maybe that person has a full schedule and needs to get this done now or cannot delay much longer, right? And then explore another way. And it could be that, okay, maybe I can facilitate moving another patient up on the schedule while we wait for the labs, and that way the surgeon's time is not wasted and he or she can have a smoother flow. That small example where earlier it would be just both of us arguing against each other and then storming off and one person wins and the other loses, whether I win that moment and surgeon wins that other moment, whoever, it doesn't matter, but it just left bad feelings.

Right.

And so taking this other approach of doing the C.H.I.E.L.D. method really helped me. And I do tell my clients, Many conflicts in the moment, you are not going to be able to get to this, then go home and think about it and practice the next time this comes up, how you're going to handle it. And it's just going to take practice. So just looking a little bit deeper and coming up with a third option that works for both is the better way to do it.

Oh my gosh, that's so incredible. There's so many things I want to get into about that because I love this so much. The first one is that I love that you're teaching people to move away from positional bargaining because So often I do think in the moment, and you are teaching them to pause and step away and take a second, but in the moment, people do see it as a zero-sum game. Somebody wins, somebody loses. I'm right and you're wrong. And I feel like too, especially being physicians, we grow up in this right or wrong world. You know, we got where we are by getting right answers. And because of that, we do see the world as a right and wrong. And so we see ourselves as being right or wrong. So just showing people to get away from a positional way of dealing with conflict to something that's more pivotal, what's underneath this. And the fact that you're showing them is what does the other person really want? I know where I am. I know what I want. I also know what this other person now really wants. Okay. Now I get that the reason why the surgeon is so upset is he's got to try to get to his kid's soccer game by 4 o'clock. And he's afraid that if this case gets bumped, he's going to miss his kid's soccer game. Okay. Now, cool. Now it's okay. Can we do this? Can I move up this next case? I can call this patient right now. I can have them back in 15 minutes.

Mm-hmm.

We're flip-flopping. You should still be good to get to your kid's soccer game. All of a sudden we have resolution, but we also have a resolution that preserved a relationship.

Yes.

The next time this comes up, I'm going to bet you that surgeon's going to seek you out. Hey, Asha, can you— were so great this past time. I've got this going on. They're actually probably going to find you. You've now made an ally. And I love how you're teaching people that. I think that's so cool. I also think the idea that you're giving them a go home and practice, go home and script this, go home and think about what your response is going to be, that we don't, as doctors getting into conflict, practice enough this idea of scripting. And one of the things I love that you talk about in that scenario is you walked into that kind of description saying, this happens to everybody. If you've worked in an operating room, This has happened to you. So it's not a question of if, but when. And that's our awareness of conflict. Then it behooves us to just practice the script.

Yes.

Maybe it didn't happen to you last week, but it's going to happen. And if we know that and we're ready for it and we have that already practiced, scripted, learned, it's going to be so much better. And I can't even think about how many women physicians need to learn how to script that out because it's not something that's inherent with us. Unless you grew up really with somebody who talked a lot about conflict or had that model to you, it's just not inherent in how we communicate. There's so much that I love about that. No, absolutely not. One of the things that you also talk about as you're working with coaching is this concept, which I feel like goes right hand in hand with this idea of scripting and being prepared for conflict. is this idea of emotional mastery.

Yes.

What do you mean when you describe that, when you're talking about that with your clients?

For all of us, most of us, we think that what we feel is what is true for everything. And it takes some time to understand that sometimes our thoughts are not exactly true all the time. And there are reasons why we think and feel things in a certain way. And unless you really delve deep into why certain situations trigger you to act in a certain way, why you really react to those situations in certain ways, you don't know. It's just a sort of a hamster wheel of emotions where a trigger happens and this is the way I react. Until you stop and put that pause between the trigger and the reaction and learn what Is the story you're telling yourself between the trigger and the reaction. You cannot change that reaction, that pattern of behavior. Learning that and then learning how to modify that. So I know this trigger is going to create this reaction in me. Why is that? And what can I do to modify my reaction?

Mm-hmm.

So that part, modifying the reaction, is where I think the emotional mastery comes in because now I'm not reacting will innately lead to a trigger that would cause anger or fury or disappointment in me because I can put a stop there and say, okay, this is why I'm reacting this way. I don't have to react this way. And it's not like it's this concept of, oh, you're gonna be perfect and be able to respond perfectly every time. It's the concept is more, yes, I will react, but how long will I stay in that reaction? How long will I stay in the anger? It's like my coach says, how long will you keep your hand on the hot stove? And it could be forever. We could keep my hand on the hot stove of emotions for days or hours, or it could be minutes. And all of that depends how your emotional mastery is gonna dictate how long you keep your hand on the hot stove.

Oh my gosh. What a great explanation and great visual. How long are you going to react in this way? You also said something really cool, and I wanna come back to this. The story that I tell myself is that as we're having these thought processes, the author Brené Brown, who is, I think every woman on the planet loves Brené Brown, Daring Greatly, one of my favorite books of all time. But that's one of the things that she talks about is that when we're having a conversation with somebody in conflict and they've said something that's triggered us, rather than pointing fingers and blaming and saying, you said this, to say, when you say this, the story I tell myself is.

Yes.

And the idea that what that person presented to you, maybe the intent behind what that person said is not the way that it landed with you, but you are explaining that in such a way that number one, you're communicating without escalating. Amazing. But also too, you are recognizing, like you said, that my thoughts, my experiences, the way that I respond are mine. Doesn't mean that they're wrong. Doesn't mean that they're not valid, but that's something I have to recognize as mine. And then as I bring that awareness to the other person, we can build an understanding. I love that so much. And I love that you're actively teaching that as part of a leadership skill. You're teaching that as a skillset.

And I love how you really summarize that so beautifully.

It's, this is what's so great about what you're doing. You are presenting these amazing skills. One of the things that you also talk about in the website, and I love getting into your blog, it was really cool, is the most essential skill physicians need to have as they are engaging in leadership. What is that most essential skill that we need to have?

Oh, now you're putting me on the spot. Tell me about it, because I've gotten so far away from our website.

Oh my gosh.

Well, go ahead and tell me.

It's curiosity. Is, I love the fact that you talked about curiosity, and especially I think in terms of conflict, the idea of being curious as opposed to being reactive.

Yes.

How do you cultivate, as a coach, how do you cultivate the idea of becoming curious, especially in really stressful situations?

And part of that is I like to use the term, or explore, right? Explore what's happening here. Explore what's happening in you. what's happening to the other person. And being really curious is all about exploring the reality for you or the perception of reality for you and the perception of reality for that other person. And it could be so very different because all of us have different life experiences, which dictate how we react to the exact same stimulus. I love how one of my coaches told me a story about you and your husband go buy a sofa. You sit in it, the most comfortable sofa for your height and weight, right? Your husband sits in it and is the most uncomfortable. And then you to tell that other person, my spouse in this case, that no, this is the most comfortable while his experience is completely different will never fly because each of you has a different perception of the same exact thing. So then if I become curious about what is his experience, why is he saying it's terrible?

Mm-hmm.

And why am I saying it's so good? And then coming to a common third way because Both of us are right, but we cannot come to an agreement if we each stick to our particular perception. So becoming curious about that other person on why they feel what they feel, how they feel, what is behind it all.

I love the couch analogy so much because it really does speak to valid experiences that can still be different, but they're still valid. Just because that was your experience, just because I liked the couch and you didn't, That doesn't mean that my experience is not valid. When you bring that to people in terms of, you may have experienced that in a very different way, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to not give credit or give credence to what you feel. I do, but we still need to be curious about each other enough to understand there's got to be a place in between these two or somewhere as a creative third place that we can find a place to agree. And sometimes we forget to be curious, and there's a lot of reasons why, right? That we might be busy, we might be rushed, we might be distracted, might be, I've gotta get to this next thing. And so curiosity takes time.

Yeah.

Sometimes you just need to get things done and move on. But the curiosity part comes, I think, in the after moments where something has not gone the way you want it to. And the reaction is done and over. But then when you step back and say, okay, why did I react this way? And I'm becoming curious about yourself. Why did that other person react that way? So maybe the next time there's a similar kind of conflict, because conflict always, it's all the same patterns, whether it's with a spouse or with your nurse or with whoever, it's all the same pattern. So the next time that comes up, maybe I can, it might take me less time to become curious. And it becomes easier, but sometimes it's just deal with the situation in the moment, move on, and then come back to it.

That's huge. I love that, giving people the space and the grace to actually come back to that. And I think that's really important because sometimes giving people permission to come back to that kind of frees them from the shame of the memory. They feel really bad it happened, but we can also spend time with this and learn how we're going to grow from this experience so we don't do it again, or we learn and maybe we're better the next time. I think liberating, and I think doctors, we tend to be very shame-based and driven sometimes. That's not great for us because we've never learned how to deal with that professionally. We demand a lot of ourselves. And so giving ourselves a place to actually explore that without feeling shame, I think is really amazing. I'm so glad you're working with that, but also too with your emotional mastery and you just mentioned it is the idea that these skills that we're learning. professionally translate to every other place in our lives. It's not just about professional thriving, it's about personal thriving too.

Absolutely, because these skills— I was— when I look back and being a conflict avoider, you're not one way at work and another way at home. You're the same person. So if I was avoiding conflict at work, I was avoiding conflict at home. So learning those skills really translate Oh my gosh, that's so true.

On your website, you talk about learning to negotiate better. That's part of what you're working with leaders as well. And so, like you talked about being in the C-suite and learning how to negotiate there, you're negotiating health policy. I saw the work that you're doing in terms of scope of practice in Florida. That's something we're dealing with in Alabama as well. What kind of things do you really try to bring to negotiations to make yourself effective? Yeah, so I think it's a couple of things.

I think the first thing you need to look at is what's in it for the other person, because people really need to take positions or do things because there's some basic need that's being met, whether it's financial or human or whatever it is. There is something they are in that position for.

Right.

And figuring that out will help you be able to move the needle a little bit more when you can come at something with that angle. You obviously have to look at what's in it for you, right? You have to look at it from that perspective as well. But then how do you come together in a way that it may, you may call it a win-win situation or however you want to term it, but both parties need to get something from that negotiation. And might not get everything that you want, everything we want. And I know scope is such an issue that is always going to be a challenge.

Mm-hmm.

And everywhere else, there might be something that you can, you may have to give up to get some. The other person might have to give up to get some. But knowing that is important. And the other part of, is for me, negotiation personally for women physicians is also knowing our own worth and being able to speak to that because so many of us don't. We don't, we just think that we are grateful to be in the position we are in and Someone gave it to us and so many other things that we don't negotiate.

Oh my gosh. I really want to get into this. What you just said, that we feel like as women physicians, things are given to us. Maybe we don't deserve to be in these positions. One of the most common things we all deal with at all phases of our professional career is imposter syndrome. That's something that's so prevalent for us, right? So, as we're working, especially as we're approaching things like coaching, What kind of things happen in coaching that can really help us work through our imposter syndrome?

I think it goes back to the self-awareness, learning that our thoughts— at this point, imposter syndrome, imposter thoughts are all over the media, right? So we can all at this point recognize that these are those thoughts, but then what do you do with it? Yeah, it's okay to recognize, yes, this is an imposter thought, but then going into work and still feeling the same way and still feeling depressed or unworthy or Like an idiot. Someone quoted that to me. I felt like an idiot. Yes. So yes, I recognize that, but then what?

Yeah.

Then what is— and that's where my work on myself and my work with my clients goes, is, you know, working beyond that. Yes, you recognized it, but now let's look at, is this really true? What are the facts that you have to support this? And when you start delving deeper into that, a lot of times it's knee-jerk reactions. It's, oh, this must be the reason why I feel this way. Versus this is really fact. For years I thought I'm in the chief position cuz no one else wanted it.

Wow.

And then, and then when I learned to step back and look at it, okay, was that true? No. What was the evidence I had? There was no evidence I had about that. Learning to recognize the facts behind what you're feeling is in itself empowering to say, okay, no, that is just a thought that is not true factually. And I think that frees up more emotional bandwidth to then say, okay, if that's not true, then what else is not true?

Yeah.

And then looking for evidence to show that, okay, no, I'm actually capable. There was a reason I'm in this place. There was a reason I was chosen. There's a reason I continue to stay in this place.

Oh my gosh.

Learning to recognize that. And really, I think we deal well with facts. We, as physicians, we deal well with facts, but Learning to recognize that you need the facts to back up that imposter thought or not is where the change will happen.

That's amazing. And the idea of the awareness of the thought itself, not taking the thought at face value. And as we don't take that thought at face value, actually questioning, is that really a true thought? Am I really not deserving of being in this position? Am I really not deserving of this thing that I'm receiving? And actually questioning that thought and going, no, I've actually worked pretty hard for this. And I actually have good experience with this. And I I've actually been very successful at this, and therefore I am not an imposter. I'm the real deal. And I do love how you teach people to be aware of their thoughts because I feel like that's something we're not good at. But I also do think that the younger doctors are coming in behind us. They are more aware of mindfulness and more aware of these practices, and we're learning from them.

Yes, it is so important. And I do like the changes that are happening in medicine in that aspect now. Where our younger physicians are saying, okay, this is not how I want to lead my life. And I truly think that coaching is something that should be there in every institution. Every physician should have a coach. Obviously I'm biased, but that's because my life has been changed with having a coach or having multiple coaches. But I think that's where we can really empower the next generation or the next generations into becoming more Effective, influential, and really feeling more fulfilled. Because if you're mired in imposter thoughts, you're never gonna feel fulfilled because you're always gonna hold yourself back.

100%. That's so beautiful. So you have a woman coming to you, a woman physician comes to you for coaching. She's definitely seeking to improve her leadership skills. She's looking to become more effective and actually thrive in her professional and personal life. Where do you start that journey with her?

So we really, it is so individualistic because a lot of times I find that women physicians come to me with one goal. I wanna apply for this position or I wanna feel better at work. And then as we dig deeper, we go through a curriculum of figuring them out, right? The whole part of self-awareness. What are their values? What do they want? And a lot of times they have never spent enough time on themselves. To think these things through. And so, a lot of times that exercise, that journey in itself begins to be so revelatory to them because they've never taken the time to do that. So, once they start figuring that out, then we go into, okay, so what's holding you back, whether it's conflict management or negotiation. But I think it all starts with becoming more aware of yourself and what is important to you. Because you might come to me and say, I want to get that promotion. And By the time we work through it, you might realize it's not actually the promotion I need, it's the validation of my work. So it's not the title I need, but the validation of my work. And that just makes it— and once you feel that you are more and more powerful, then you can apply to that position feeling totally confident and feeling that if you don't get that position, you're going to be fine because someone else is going to recognize your work through this entire journey.

Oh my gosh, that is so beautiful. And the fact that you are able to really help people guide them on that exploration. And you're so true and so right about that, that so often we've just never had or taken the time to do that personal exploration. Sometimes we don't really know what we want. And if we don't really know what we want, how can we actually get in that direction and actually walk that out to get what we think we want to accomplish or be? We don't know until we look. I love the work that you're doing, Asha. It is incredible.

Thank you.

Awesome. If people wanted to find you and wanted to reach out for coaching, where would they find you?

Find me on LinkedIn, on my podcast, and I can give you the links for that, and my website. It's still a little bit in turmoil right now, but LinkedIn would be the best way to go.

We will put that in the podcast. We'll link your website and we'll put your LinkedIn in the show notes as well. Asha, this has been amazing. Thank you so much for being here.

Oh, it's been such a pleasure talking to you.

I hope you want to come back on the podcast again at some point, because this has been fantastic. Peaceful warriors, thank you so much for joining us today on The Scalpel and Sword for this amazing conversation. And until next time, be at peace. Every episode is an invitation To speak, to negotiate, to choose.

I'm Dr. Lee Sharma. Join the dialogue by subscribing to Scalpel and Sword. Until next time, peaceful warriors, may your choices be sharp and your voice be even sharper. This podcast is a reflection of lived experience and research in conflict resolution. The Scalpel and Sword is not intended as medical or legal guidance. For personal matters, please consult a qualified professional.

Great.