Dr. Leon Eisen moved from quantum physics into medical devices, founding a wearable company that got FDA clearance in 2017. He now teaches "quantum business thinking," a framework that maps quantum principles onto startup strategy and uses backward-mapping from a desired future state to expose critical paths and KPIs.
Doctor Leon, thank you so much for coming onto the show today. I don't want to, I don't want to spoil the surprise of, you know, of all the great things that you've done by trying to, you know, articulate that myself. Would love to one first, thank you for coming on the show and ask you to maybe give a, a brief overview of, of, of your history of work and talk about some of the things that you've done and accomplishments, accomplishments that you've had. I would love to just kind of hand over the floor to you and hear a bit more about your story.
Yeah. Hey Ben. And thank you for inviting me to your podcast. It's, it's, it's, it's a really great pleasure to share my story and I have something to share. I have a lot of stories and let's, let's start our conversation. Yeah. So yeah, let's start from my scientific background. I did my PhD in quantum optics, optics and postdoctoral research in quantum computers and laser cooling. And just all my life I was thinking about being a scientist. My father professor. So I am from professor family and this was my destiny. I thought before and once when I finished my postdoctoral research and was looking for where to apply my scientific knowledge. My professor from Weissman Institute of Science, he co founded the company and they called me and asked me to join the company. I remember conversation I was told that I'm not going to go to the industry. I'm interested to continue in science. And first of all they explained me that what's the difference between a salary of professor and salary of engineer. And in difference, you know, it's very, very big. And why this difference happens? Because what engineer is doing you can use now. You can apply, you can have return of investment immediately. But what professor is doing, you have return of investment in 50 years approximately. So just chop the salary on 50 years and you have salary of professor. They were quite convincing and I decided to join the company and spend a year like engineer. By the way, I didn't know how to be engineer because you know the, the main, the main goal of the scientists is to publish as much as much papers as possible and to show phenomena. The show phenomenon. And when I became engineer, I tried to become engineer. I couldn't understand how to apply to all the runs. It's all this stuff around specifically for optical engineering and I had to break my, my head to learn it because it's totally different approach, totally different way of thinking. Instead of thinking about phenomena, I have to thinking about application. And so but I succeeded and at a couple of years I just became freelancer, engineer and I was working with maybe the best startups in the healthcare and medical device industry. I was responsible for developing some sensors, small sensors. And also I was promoted to become CTO of the company. And we for the year. I managed to create the product from the scratch from idea to the market. And this was some aha moment. I would say aha, not on the moment and understood that I actually can can make something new. And I had a lot of ideas and I started decided to establish my own company. It was exactly in the Middle of Crisis, 2008, 2009. And that was easy. People laughed at me. I I said I will raise $1 million. So people were laughing on me and said no, that's impossible. You see all companies, businesses ruin it. Economy is ruin it. Nobody can raise money today. That's impossible. And also I had the baby on my hand just born. And so finally I born my born my boat and burned my balls. Because you know, if you think all the time about. About some another way or plan B specifically in very difficult situation it's very easy to slide down to the conventional habitual behavior. So I born the boats. And in a year I raised the money. I went almost. I was on the brink of bankruptcy, but I raised finally I succeeded. And this is how my company started. And it was all about how to measure blood oxygen saturation and the medical medical and make medical device on the wrist. People were thinking about pulse rate measurements, wellness devices. You know, Fitbit was created other companies, Garmin got into this business. I was thinking from the beginning about creating medical device. The first wearable medical device. Not wellness. And medical device is much more difficult because it has to stand within specific limits of measurements, within specific limits of accuracy. You have to get C mark, you have to get FDA clearance. Totally not easy. But if you win, it is a really big win. And in 2017 device I invented just received FDA clearance. The first FDA cleared wrist oximeter the medical device. And many companies today use this device like a predicate for FDA clearance. By the way, not a lot of company having FDA clearance for medical devices on wrist. Not a lot. I can number these companies. So still it's a holy grail for many many devices to have of the clearance and use it in hospitals and have accuracy on the level of hospital grade devices. And so for 10 years I was so I raised quite good amount of money. We start sales and 2020 I left the position of CEO and I told that it's Time and I became executive chairman and this led me to have some time to realize very interesting project I was thinking about during my tenure like CEO in Occident Medical. And this is what I am doing today. So I entered I call it dark side of the business. I became venture partner. So I started to work with startups. I think it's time to give back. So I was appointed like official mentor at Israeli Expert Institute. It's a very good and very powerful organization of economical missions over the world. Also I help startups like a mentor, like advisor. And finally I developed my own methodology. So I combined my experience in quantum mechanics because I know principle of quantum mechanics and experience like engineer and entrepreneur all together just you know, like all planets in line enabled me to. To create so called quantum business thinking. A methodology that today many companies used. I have a. I have a. I would say it's not accelerator, but I have a number of companies. I teach them how to use quantum business thinking methodology that just application of quantum quantum mechanics principles to. To the business. And really they're very much applicable and even you can monetize these principles Quantum mechanics principles. And so this is the story more or less I still serial entrepreneur all the time. I participate in different ventures and recently I became a senator in World Business Angel Investment Forum. This is very interesting organization just built for financial inclusions to help with this stuff and affiliated with G20 so we are presented in 100 cars, more than 100 countries and doing a lot of interesting things. Also I entered into the Forbes Business Council and you can find my articles published in Forbes about quantum business thinking specifically. And also recently I decided to somehow to participate in African business development and startups development. So I joined the board of Global African Leadership Council and together with Network VHI where I am a partner into venture capital, we conducted so called Unicorn pitch Pan African Unicorn pitch. It's about nine best. It was selected. It was selected nine companies, startup companies and they pitched and the winner just go to the next level called Unicorn battle and next level Unicorn Cap that happens in Silicon Valley and get investment from our company, from our venture fund. So this is more or less about what I'm doing today.
So just a. Just a couple of things. Not.
Not terribly busy, huh? No, it's.
That's incredible. Just to see the.
The.
The progression of your career from starting off in the. In the hard sciences and then moving into the business world. But first kind of having this engineering stint and then entrepreneurship and now you move more to the role of investor where you've created this quantum business thinking, quantum business methodology. And you're bringing that to different startups, working with different startups, obviously doing a lot of good international business. So I think a lot of people are, are probably feeling your influence even if they don't exactly know it yet, but now they know it because they're here, I hope.
Sure, yeah.
So yeah, would love to, to understand a little bit more about your quantum business methodology. I am not a scientist. I, I've, you know, I'm, I'm reading right now the, the structure of scientific revolutions, but I have not delved that deeply into the sciences as much as I would like to. So I have a lot of respect for, for scientists and people who are much smarter than myself there. So would love to learn more about this and figure out how we can apply this to, to business and, and just to our life in general.
First of all, you have to release the scientists from your body, from yourself, from your mind. Because if you continue thinking like scientists, you cannot make anything. You have think to think like entrepreneur, not like scientists, like not like engineer. You have to know how they think. But you have to break your mind and build the market market mindset, even mind place of entrepreneur and specifically entrepreneur which accept and embrace quantum thinking. What does it mean? Let's take example. For example duality. So you know any particle could be in dual state. It could be wave at some observation time or it could be particle with another observation type. So same for the business. Usually people buy and they do not accept some contradictory opinion and lose a lot. From my experience, this is one of my principles. We were talking about principles. When I design something by myself every time I fail because we cannot get all information and process all information. We need to make something. It's a black swan happens you didn't account something. So all the time you have to check and validate what you're doing in your opinion with other people with totally contradictory opinion and then to make some synergy between them and to find yourself in superposition state. It's another principle of quantum mechanics. And this superposition state is exactly between these two states. And maybe these states are contradictory states, but you find something how to manage it. Another thing, during this management of these states of thinking, you come to uncertainty because you know everything what you are doing in future is uncertain. And what is it actually? Strategy. Strategy means how you manage uncertainty and lack of resources. This is a strategy and I'm strategist, I help to build strategy for, for startups. And so you take the best the Best chief executive officer is the person who know how to manage something that he doesn't know, that he doesn't know. If he doesn't understand how to manage it, he loses. You know, 90 of startups just fail because of management, not because of technology or market, because they don't know how to manage uncertainty. So in this case, you also could apply quantum mechanics principles how to manage uncertainty, right. First of all, you collect a lot of information. And if you embrace uncertainty, embrace duality, thinking, you can find such a superposition that enable you to predict the future, the future step. But at the same time you apply some metrics. It also belongs to quantum mechanical principle about observation. When you observe, you collapse your wave function, right? And you can measure it already. So when you apply measurements to uncertainty, you collapse uncertainty to their, to the order, to the, to something that exists. So you start from, you can start from chaos, but what is it? Chaos? Chaos is the order that you don't know yet how to find it inside, right? So there is a very interesting story about me. I remember it's Michelangelo, I think he, his friend came to his, his laboratory and, and. And see the big, big stone. And he asked Michelangelo, what is it? And he said, I don't remember exactly, but he said it's a line. So. And his guest asked, it's not a line, it's a big stone, big rock, piece of rock. And Michelangelo said, okay, but inside there is a lion. What I have to do just to remove everything that doesn't belong to this lion. So this is exactly how within the chaos, that is the basic of uncertainty to find the order. And this is what I teach my entrepreneurs how to do. And this is a real strategy. And strategy is a set of decision based on this uncertainty and measurements. Another stuff, for example, it's is called interdependence. That is based on then two particle, for example, they connected somehow in the different places of universe. Universe, okay. Entanglement. Quantum entanglement. And so I projected onto the business like interdependence. And so everything depends on everything. So you have to feel, to think like to fuse all thinking together and make it together. Because everything is, is dependent. And if you apply these to any business, you can find immediately all interconnections and interdependences in your business. And you can manage these in much better way. So actually I built six principles of quantum mechanics applied to the business to succeed. And even more, even more, you apply to four quadrants of startup development. These are opportunity, I call it deal. Another quadrant that is about how to find resources. Another quadrant is feasibility. It's all about the product and how to build it and find product market fit. And another is I call relationships is all about people you need to succeed and stakeholders as well, partnership people, all these around. So when you apply quantum business thinking to all these quadrants, you build the pattern that you can manage immediately. You have the, you can understand the holes within this pattern. And finally you come to the strategy, so called backward mapping. So applying. So it looks like some complicated stuff. But people who went through all these development, it takes, I don't know, maybe a couple of weeks, save years, years and millions of dollars because they know in total they totally certain about what will happen and how to manage it.
So I wanna, I wanna pause for a second here because that was a lot to digest and I want to go back through and kind of break down.
Right.
One of the things that I wanted to touch on first here, and this is fascinating stuff, was the idea of removing things from. Or understanding the chaos. Using measurements to turn to discover the order within the chaos and removing things until you get to that core thing. That is what you're looking for like the, the lion and coming out of the piece of rock. I guess the. That begs the question, how do you discern what needs to be removed in what order? What's that? What's the chronology of removing? And then how do you understand what it is in the first? Like we need to know what we need to remove and then in what order do we need to remove it? So those are kind of two moving parts or how do we figure that out?
My congratulations, Ben. You catch up with all the, what I was talking about. Not everybody can do it. So. Thank you. It's very interesting question because this is all about backward mapping. I start talking about it. So when you do backward mapping, you take two stages again like in quantum mechanics, two stages. Stage A where you are today and stage B where you are someday you want to be. Right. We're not talking about time now. You start from stage B, what you want to have there, what kind of characteristics you have at stage B. And these characteristics just shape your line, right? So it has, it has head, it has, I don't know, legs, it has body, it has this and have that. So these are characteristics. Now you go back, you remove head. Then you go back to B2, B1, remove head, B2, remove, I don't know, tie, B3, you remove something else. Finally you come to the stage A where you have nothing current state, you have only big rock. And now when you remove all this stuff, consequently you think about what I need to do to have this stuff back. So you remove, I don't know, head. You think through all these quadrants, what kind of resources, what you have to do to get this head. Then you go back, you don't have head and you don't have time. I don't have legs. You think about what kind of strategy you should apply and what kind of resources, what kind of partnership, what kind of people. You need to have these legs at the next stage. So this way you could build the plan. I can say this is the strategy. And usually strategy applied to companies and people who are who have a lack of resources. So all the time you have to think how to navigate. Usually people having a lot of resources and don't have strategy, they don't use strategy. And strategy is needed to navigate through lack of resources and connections. So you build all this stuff step by step. You exactly define whom you are going to hire to solve this problem or that problem. It's a different table. You define archetype of people that could help you. Because even this stuff people don't know how to do, they think, okay, I want a sales manager. I hire somebody from big company working 10 years, I don't know in Philips, other companies sold on for millions of dollars. I want him in my startup, he will make me a billionaire. He come to the startup, ask 20,000 per month and do nothing because he doesn't know how to work with the startup. And then he comes to his friend, he sold something, then he was in Philips. They do not accept him anymore because there is no Phillips behind him. It's a small startup and this guy doesn't know how to work in this environment. So all the time you have to think what you need through all these four quadrants. Applying quantum, quantum thinking. And you build your business like a strategy or build strategy for your business. And most important, when you do this, at some point between, I don't know, B3 and B4 or there is some point of the middle called a B together. When you have some, I don't know, quantum leap to the next stage, your sales grow thousand percent, something like this. So you're close to your B stage already. So something happens. It means you don't know how to manage it. You don't understand how to apply verbs to move from one stage to another stage because it's based on the verb what you have to do. And you don't know, you don't know you don't have, you cannot understand what to do. Before, I understood everything what I can do to get to the next stage, but now I don't know. I don't have, for example, people, sales manager, who I think should bring me to this specific company. I don't have, I don't know how to find him. I don't have connection. What does it mean? It means it's your critical path and you have to apply thinking how to overcome it before you come to this stage. And conventional thinking of conventional strategy from A to B implies, okay, let's start doing. We do these, we do that. Okay, at some point we, we got to the critical part, we will think what to do and they lose in backward mapping. You know exactly where the critical path and you start thinking about it today. Okay, So I can tell you, people ask me, okay, Facebook, Google, they didn't have any strategy and they are billionaires now. Name me how many companies became like this. Okay, maybe 01001% of all startups started and you know about them, but you don't know about other 99.9 startups who didn't apply strategy and lost and disappeared. And then you apply strategy. At least you have some confidence that what you're doing is right and you remove uncertainty.
So I guess this is a, it's a brilliant litmus test to see who the really scrappy, the really smart entrepreneurs are. Because when you do, when they do come across this critical path of, hey, I have to get this thing done in order to achieve my ultimate strategy, which I think is brilliant, by the way, if I understand correctly, we're looking at where we want to go versus where we are. And we are then removing things bit by bit. And as we're removing them, we're dissecting or, or diagnosing to see, based on these four quadrants, what needs to be true in order to then recreate that and get back to that. So it's almost like we're inverting the problem, which is really interesting design thinking. Yeah, it's brilliant. I think it's Charlie Munger that says invert, always invert. So I mean, that's, that's brilliant. Um, and so then once you do discover these really critical pieces that you don't currently have, but you need, then it becomes, okay, well, how good are you as the entrepreneur to, to jump across that, that bridge or jump over that obstacle or go find that hire that you don't currently know, but you need or go build that partnership with this critical. You know, strategic ally that you need in order to, you know, do XYZ that you need to be able to finish out that line again. So I think that's a really interesting litmus test of like one, figuring out what it is and if, if you're not, if you can't think through that, then that's probably a red flag right there. And then two, once you do discover that, do you have the chops to actually execute on that and, and figure it out? I would imagine a lot of the, a lot of the folks that you come across, they probably like a certain percentage fall off at each stage. I mean the people, you know, the people that just in your experiences from observation, how many people, one understand it and then two can actually build the plan and then three can actually execute on the plan. Like what are those percentages there from your observations?
Yeah, it's difficult to talk about percentage, but very small, very small people rely on their habitual, habitual behavior. Even I can tell if people come to me and ask for the help, I start to help. And believe me, they don't do what I ask them to do to succeed. They very soon slide down to what they did before, where they lost already. But they continue doing this or they do not accept all what I'm talking about. They just, you know, pick up some, some dots from this trying to apply something what they understand and avoid something what they don't want or don't understand. And this is this not good because you have either applied the full technology or do not apply at all. So the people's bias and too much self confidence and usually a lot of Startup east, they are very ignorant, ignorant. They reject help, you know, almost not. Okay now I can tell you the percentage, almost 95 of my conversation, initial conversation with startups and founders I, I met, I, I'm a mentor for them whom I mentor. Start, oh, help me to raise money. So they come to me not to ask how do I make business? I have some problems, I have some questions. No, help me to raise money. My answer, are you ready? They said, yeah, we're ready. We have everything. We have pitch deck, we have this, we have that. Okay, show me a pitch deck. He started to show pitch deck. 90% of this pitch deck you can throw to the basket Immediately you start, tell him about it. He doesn't accept. He moved to another guy. He moved to another mentor. He moved to another guy. Finally he finds himself in a year on the same stage. Rarely, very rarely there is a. They just could pick up very good Lotto, lotto ticket and win. But usually they find themselves in the same space even more. Even more people invest all the money in product development. I ask, and they cannot deliver the speech. They cannot raise money. So if you develop this product, okay, I can put this product in the book on the bookshelf and just watch it every day and be happy about you. But how about raising money or sales? No, we can do it. How you can do it? You don't have experience, you have nothing. You have to hire consultant to do it. You have to pay consultant to help you, advisor to help you. Or go to accelerator and ask for mentor. And don't ask, help me to raise money. I'm here not to help you to raise money. I'm here to give you the tool that will enable you to raise money. And usually this is the mental tool, how to think correctly to build correct story that will be attractive for investors. So 90% of people don't do it. I don't want to do it. So they come to me again in a year and I ask where you are? They are on the same place exactly. And still didn't learn anything. Amazing what happens. But it happens every day.
Wow, that would drive me nuts if I was in the same exact place a year ago that I am today. That would absolutely. I think I would go. I think that would be insanity. I think that would be. I think that would qualify as a definition.
Yeah, but. But it's okay. It's okay. If everybody win, who will lose? Yeah, somebody should lose. Otherwise. Otherwise our world will be crazy.
So, yeah, so the ones that you see that do go on to be successful, they're the ones that they recognize the tools as for the value that they provide. They implement the suggestions, they, they build their own tools, they acquire the mental models, they start to utilize these different forms of thinking and apply that to their business. And then are those typically the ones that are the most successful or what are, what are they doing differently than the other folks that are staying the same for the, for the whole year?
You mean what's the difference between people who implement this strategy and who don't? Right?
Yeah, I think so. Yeah. I think that's what I'm asking.
Who can implement? I, I can tell you the story. I had one guy, I just told him about this quantum business thinking and about backward mapping. We build the story. And I introd, I made introduction to my friends in angel investor and sent this guy, this entrepreneur to angel investor. And this day evening, my friend called me and said, you know, I didn't understand why did you send me this guy who sold his company? I said no, he just in the early stage. He's looking for angel investor. And he didn't sell anything yet. No, it's impossible. He told me his story in a way like I can tell you about my wedding this way. He just was living for this. How could it be? I said, so we build this, we build the future. It's interesting thing happens just little bit about quantum mechanics. A quantum field from one of the theory of quantum mechanics. And a lot of quantum mechanics scientists professor just believe in this. That consciousness just separate realities in the quantum mechanics level. So what we think we separate realities. But if you build the strategy from the tomorrow back. You create your reality that is separated for yourself. And now you start to create it. And this is what we're doing. Just imagine you. You decided to go to the theater today evening or tomorrow evening. You go online. What you see, you don't have tickets, right? Why? Because people had intention half of year before to buy it. They made your reality, not you. They manage your reality today, not you. If you want to manage your reality, go and buy ticket in half of you. You can choose any place, the best place in the whole, right? But even more, you bought it, you put in your pocket. And you know exactly where you are in time. Place with home. What are you doing in half of you. It's real today. You bought reality today put in a in a pocket. And now when you live through this half of year, you can think about it. You can create reality day before, day after. So all these just your reality happens about or around this event. What kind of restaurant you go. Maybe you won't go to vacation this time? No, I go to vacation before or after. So all this reality, totally new reality created from something you fixed in half of you. And this is the basic that underlines all my thinking about quantum business thinking theory and. Or methodology and frame. It's a framework for backward mapping strategy.
So is. I'm thinking of this as like a. Like an anchor. Could be. You're anchoring to something there and then building everything around that. That anchor. Yeah, is the. Is the end goal. Is the lion the anchor?
Or unicorn. Or unicorn. Now you can think about timing, but be careful because immediately as you put numbers or time or place, you fix yourself, you lose flexibility. And this is called plan already. Plan is something where you are not flexible anymore. And backward thinking, it's a flexible stuff. You do not put time, you just build the order. How you make this line. But when you start planning, you put time, you put specific KPIs, you put object, key, object and the results. And at this time you start planning and you put yourself in some limits to reach to this point.
How do you make sure when you're, you're setting this anchor, how do you make sure that that is the right thing to be anchoring? How do you make sure that the lion is more important than the giraffe or the dolphin?
It's up to you. It's what you want. Most important thing, it should be under your control. If something, what you plan to do or set like an anchor is not under your control, you cannot do it, for example, become president of your country. Is it under your control? No, because people vote, right? But for example, to go to their vacate, to go to vacation, I don't know, to Hawaii, it's under your control, right? So you should set up something that really under your control. This is the first requirement and second requirement for the business. For example, I offer to think specifically about what, how it looks like the war where the problem you are solving today is solved. You take this word, for example, I don't know in two years when it's ready. We're not talking about time. You take war where it's all how it looks like and then you understand exactly what is your tag.
So then one of the things that I, I think would be really interesting to, to kind of think through too is like if once, once we have this anchor here, maybe there is something that it's very important to us to anchor, but it's not totally within our control. For example, we want to have a hundred new customers by XYZ day. It we can go and take the actions of we're going to spend X amount of time prospecting. We're going to send these many cold calls and we're going to put in these activities, but it's not guaranteed to give you the result. So is would an important thing to measure on the way be the actionable items that you can do yourself, that you believe will give you the best chance of hitting that result? Or just say no. We're hard anchoring to 100 new customers and now we'll do whatever it takes to get to that point.
Exactly. Because again, we're thinking by quantum principles. And quantum thinking is based on probability. Always there is probability, unless you touch this point and you collapse wave function. So you're thinking about probability. Definitely. And probability projected to business is called objective key results. So you set up objective Key results. And you set up KPI that you manage and measure. On the way to these objective key results. And if you, for example, set up to get to another town from your town for two hours, right. You set specific in two hours to be in another town. You set specific KPIs. You set specific. How fast should you drive? Which road should you choose? These all KPI. And how you manage this driving. And these KPIs bring you to these results. So this is the same in quantum business thinking and backward thinking as well. So your backward mapping, you set up objective key results. And then at each point, you set up some small objective key results. And between them, you set up KPIs to reach from one point to another point.
Okay, I see. So you're breaking it down into the smallest possible units that you can.
All possible steps.
Right, I see. Okay, I understand. So I want to actually jump back to something that we talked about a little bit earlier. Which was thinking about the idea of not. I think you said when you're designing by yourself. It was not as fruitful as when designing with others. And checking and validating your opinions with others. Who have totally different perspectives and opinions. And then the idea of superpositioning. Can we dig into that a little bit more? Because one of the. One of the questions that I often come across my own life. Is I want to do my own research and be an original thinker. However, I want to read from others and learn from others. And not make. If somebody else makes a mistake, I don't have to make that mistake myself. Somebody else has discovered something. I don't have to go reinvent that wheel. However, I don't want that to cross this barrier of. Or across this line of. Then, oh, I'm being influenced by others. And not doing my own original thinking. So how do we kind of parse through that? How do we handle that duality?
I can just suggest how I'm doing this. First of all, I start thinking by myself. To understand where I am. What kind of level in this superposition I occur. Occupy I not about. I'm not looking for some outer knowledge. I'm looking for knowledge inside. I generate my knowledge by myself. I excavate my subconscious, I would say. And take knowledge from there. And then I'm exhausted in this. I try to understand. And not only exhausted. I created my level. I created my level of understanding. And I. I have some opinion about different stuff. And after that, I'm looking for other opinions, other thinkings. And in this case, all the time. I can Compare other opinion with mine and look for some superposition where others opinion and thinking just add to my opinion or remove something from my opinion. It's a thinking process. Also I plan to make webinar about thinking process. It's very unique thinking process. But it really works. Because usually people you have idea. You go online, go to chat GPT, write this idea and have everything. But it's not your. It's not your start with your idea, then go to GPT chat and validate it. And then you will be in supervisory superposition state. That takes all knowledge into your opinion and your activity as well. You know, it's. There is a. There is interesting theory about conscious agent developed by Professor Donald Hoffman. I like this. I. I was reading all his books and it's. It's quite mathematical. It's quite mathematical. But if you know how to get through through all mathematicals. Deborah. Yeah, you understand a lot. So he builds so called conscious aging. Like a triangle on the top. There is a war old new world. That influence on your. On you. But current world. Yeah, influence on you through perception. Your perception. Each one has different type of perception. So it's specifically for you then based on this perception, you make decision. Based on this decision, you make activity. And this activity just influence impact this word and change it. And this loop just goes forever. And if we have 8 billion conscious agents, we have superposition of all these. Or convolution. I would say convolution of all these. And this is how we see our reward as a result of convolutions of all these conscious agents. And this is our world. And here we're talking about intention. Somebody has more intention, somebody has less intention. And this is how they influence an impact on new world. But I went further applying to entrepreneur. I put entrepreneur on the top. Because what entrepreneur is doing, he takes the chaos and transform it to the order. So entrepreneur doesn't look uncertainty by the way. Because he's looking for all his business is directed to make order. Right? This is why entrepreneur is entrepreneur. I take something that doesn't exist and big, big mess and make. Make a business from this. And so entrepreneur on the top. An entrepreneur influence on the world. Change the world. And then. All the work has perception by himself. Based on how entrepreneur can influence on this world. How word accepted. For example, I am entrepreneur. I found opportunity. If it's a good opportunity, I can impact the world dramatically. I call it perception. Opportunity if applied to the world is perception of the world. How we world understand your business allow you to do Your business, all legal, economic, social elements of the world allow you to realize this opportunity, percept your opportunity. You're doing. And then this word influence your back through your perception. And then you change your direction and influence the best of the world.
Okay, so it's dynamic. It's dynamic. So you're creating, you're creating your own thoughts on it, excavating the subconscious. I absolutely love that, that idea. And then you're taking, you're taking now this, this idea or this concept and then going and bringing it around and basically stress testing it versus other ideas, adding, removing as needed. And then if everybody collectively is doing that individually, now we have the whole world and all individuals in the world all doing this and kind of bouncing off of each other, which I'm not actually sure everybody is thinking in that way. So I would be interested to, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on like depending on how much intellectual effort people are putting into creating their own opinions. You know, how does that kind of tip the scale there? But then the idea of like putting entrepreneurs on top, where entrepreneurs see opportunities, they're creating a vehicle or an idea which then can influence the world, which then will influence them back. And they're kind of going back and forth there. I guess everybody has like a, a different, a different size of their influence or a different level of their influence. So the amount that they influence the world will be different than everybody else. And, and therefore the amount the world influences them back also might be different too. I'm not sure on that last part actually. Do you think the world influences you more? If you have more influence or if you have less influence, the world influences you more.
There are two type of people, actually five type of people. But let's talk about two type of people. One type of people, I would say it's integral, integral person. It's the highest level. You can name it. It could be Mahatma Gandhi, it could be Martin Luther King, even Lenin or Stalin. They influence the world. They change the world. There is so called notions, there is notion role of the person in history. They really take the world as it is and change it for all other people. They have highest level of intention. And people differentiate by their level of intention. They have highest level of intention, they apply this intention. They change the world for all other people. They follow the word, they change.
So the people with the most influence, this, this first type, they are the ones that influence the world the most. Does not, does not the world influence them back though? In, in a huge way? Like, you know, for example, in, In World War II, for example, the leaders of the various factions within, within that conflict, they were absolutely influencing the how the world is. The world was influencing them right back too.
There is a very good example now for a Matrix. He is an integral person. He influenced totally 100. He influenced the world of Matrix. And this is the people, these are the people I'm talking about who influence the world.
That makes sense. So what, what are the other types of people? If that's kind of the highest level of influence type, what, what are the rest?
Okay, okay. It's very interesting subject. It's a very long subject. It's about. We can go back to Carl Gustav Young theory about archetypes, but we can talk about five levels or four levels of archetypes. We can start from infantile people. It's about 85% of people worldwide, infantile. They accept any concept. They change concept every day. I think you met people who talk about one thing today and talk about another thing tomorrow. And they do it really, they believe in it because tomorrow it's another person they told you they will be at 10 o' clock in the morning at your home. They won't because in the morning they are a different person and follow different intention and follow different concepts. So they jump from one concept to another. It's infantile. The next level of people, it's 85% of people over the world. Actually the next people is teenager people. You can find them on demonstrations who went after Trump to take some power and so who believe in something, who follow concepts, different concepts and attach to this concept. You can find them a lot in military because you know, if when military or just get retired, they usually die in two, three years because they lose the purpose of life. And this call, we call it teenager. Then there is a next level of people. And usually I, I was infantile when I was young and I just was working on myself to get to the next levels. And if you aware about it, conscious about it, you can work on it. The next level is a. I will call it young, young person, young individual. From mental point of view, conscious point of view. These guys, you know, some people just feel themselves alien. At home, at family, at friends, just suddenly at work, they start thinking about something different. They do not accept easily some concepts. And this is. These people start think about something. They have some initial torque like a light. They have the purpose, but this purpose like a light, you know, like enlighten them. So they're looking for their place in this war and they have very High intention. Next level it's adult level. It's 1% of people are adult level. On adult level it's a people who, who can manage so manage. Create concepts, manage concepts, teach people. So any teacher having some followers, influencers. These are adult people because they create concept and they lead this concept and then we come to integral people. They. You can number them. And these people like Neo, they live inside and they just go through the world, change it immediately and collapse anyway. Function on their way.
Wow, that was a very. That was, that was a powerful roadmap. I think a lot of people should bookmark mentally and think about where are you right now? In that, in that. On that journey.
People like to be where they are actually. It's very difficult to move from one. It should be the huge intention to influence this world in order to move from one level to another. The most people just leave under the same concept a Gregor and people talk about it called aggregate or something like this. It's a concept. They attach to this concept and they leave Democrats. I don't know other parties belonging to these parties belonging to some concept. All these. It's teenager people, teenager mind to attach to the concept and do not accept anything else. By the way. Quantum, quantum thinking principle. Talk about how to improve it, how to overcome it by duality thinking by taking another contradictory concept.
That's powerful. Um, Dr. Leon, I want to thank you so much for coming on the show today. I, I realize we've gone a bit over time, so I do want to thank you very much for, for sharing your very valuable time. I would love to keep going. I feel like we could talk about this stuff for hours. This is fascinating. So, you know, maybe, maybe at a, at a later date, you know, if you'd be so kind, maybe we can do a follow up and dig a little bit more into this stuff. But I want to thank you so very much for, again for coming and sharing your very valuable time. Thank you.
Thank you, Ben. You, you are the great listener. Thank you.
Well, thank you very much. And to everybody watching and listening, I want to thank you so, so much for being a part of this and for, for tuning in and sticking with us till the end. I'm very grateful for you and for your attention and for your time and I will see you on the next episode.
Take care. Yeah, thanks. Bye.