Module 1 Q&A Call - 19-11-2013

Thank you for your patience. This is the very first call for the Ultimate Guide to Renovation. Q and A and welcome. My name is Jane Slacksmith and I just wanted to, you know, first up front, welcome everyone and thank you for taking some time out of your busy evening. You know, it's been a week now since we closed the enrollments for the course and we've just had such an amazing group of people come through and it's just so exciting to see everyone jumping into the course and having a look and yes, we can see if you've been into the course or not. So we can see that a lot of people are getting in there and getting active. Look, it's really, I guess it's really exciting to have you here this evening and in particular have you here on a Q and A call where you get the chance to ask the questions. It shows that you're prepared to learn from the experience of others who have gone ahead of you. And the fact that you've signed up and you're jumping into these courses and getting some of the information of experienced renovators and successful experienced renovators really does mean that you're literally going to shortcut years from your journey. So before we get straight into questions tonight, I've got some housekeeping that we have to get out of the way. First of all, and I guess the important thing is that when you're on your computer, if you're experiencing any troubles whatsoever hearing me, or perhaps you can't hear during the questions, there's an option for you to call in on the telephone. Now the telephone number can be found in the sidebar. So all you have to do is go to the audio options. There's a drop down menu. You can call that number from a landline or from a mobile, or if you'd like, you could use Skype to call. I do that, have a Skype number. And if you have any questions throughout, all you need to do is raise your hand by pressing the little hand icon in the sidebar menu. Look, it's quite small, but I'm sure you can find it. It lives directly above the audio tab and is at the very top of the GoToWebinar control panel. So as you can see, if you want to contact us at all, basically put your hand up, I'll see your hand get raised and we'll get onto the questions. So when I do actually unmute you, what you're going to hear is a message that says your line's been unmuted. So you do know that you're the person I'm asking who's up to ask the question. You can also ask some questions by writing in the question box at the bottom of the control panel. I can see a lot of you have found the question box already, which is great when we're sitting there trying to work out if we were on air or not. Now I'm not going to have time really to get to all the questions this evening and the spoken questions are going to be the ones that do get first priority. We've got about an hour to an hour and a half maximum this evening. And the reason that I am going to deal with the spoken questions first is just that I think it might be easier for me to understand what your question is and so that I can add some real value and give you a better answer. That's really going to benefit the group. Now, I guess the other thing is don't be scared about asking a question. There is no questions that are silly questions. And I have to tell you, I have asked many, many what I thought was a silly question that saved me big bucks later on. So get in there and ask the questions. The more you put in, the more you're going to get out. I just ask that if you do have a question so that we can get to everyone's question, maybe have your first question and maybe a quick follow up. But I do want to get to everyone's questions and this is module one, so this is the easy good one. We're going to get into a whole lot more in the future, which is going to be exciting. Now onto these Q and A calls. As I said, they're going to go for about an hour, an hour and a half maximum. I want to make sure that we do get to all your questions. So if you don't, if you've got a general question like what's interest rates like today? You can probably Google that as quick as I can. So it might just take up a bit of time for those type of questions. I really want to get into the things that are bothering you, the things that are holding you back. If I don't know an answer, I'll Google it. I'll find the answer and I'll get back to you. But we're here to assist you and help answer your questions. Now I just also want to let you know that the Facebook group is up the Renovator network now. This is where you can ask questions, you can join some conversations. You can really get so much out of this Facebook group. We set one of these up for the beta testers when they went through the course and it's just amazing going back through the questions and the journey and a lot of those people are buying properties at the moment and getting down to the nitty gritty of questions on how to get things done. There's a lot of very generous people on the Facebook group and they put their time and their support in there. I jump on there very regularly and so does John, who I'll introduce you to in a second. Now, lastly, I just need to point out that this is not a technical support call. If you are experiencing any problems with the video and it won't download or you can't hear it or you've got issues getting into the course, I'm not really the right person to answer that for you. However, if you do have a technical issue, please email me@supportourpropertysuccess.com and we'll get as quick as humanly possible to try to fix that for you. So let's get down to the details. This week has been a really exciting week and you know, some people look at the module 1 and goals and strategies and think they'll come back to it later on, but it is absolutely in my mind one of the foundation modules of the Ultimate Guide to Renovation. I would also argue a foundation requirement for successful property investing and it's one that I regularly I talk to a lot of investors, as you can imagine, every day week and so many of them have property portfolios and haven't sat down and thought about their goals and and they don't really know where they're going. So module one, it's really designed to prompt you to establish your long term goals and also to give you a look at the merits of the two main renovation strategies, that's renovating to sell and renovating to rent so you can make an informed and intelligent decision on which strategy is right for you. So I really hope at this stage that you've taken the time to fill out the information in the Module 1 workbook around your financial targets. And now it's okay if you're still undecided on the strategy that suits you because you can return to that later. But being really clear in black and white about what you want to achieve is so very important. I guess it comes down to what are your goals, when do you want to retire? Or when do you want to have the freedom of choice to do what you want to do? Maybe it's work. Still, it's about understanding how much money or what the passive income per year is going to be that's going to allow you to do that. And it might be $30,000, it could be $50,000, it could be 80 or $100,000. And I know this is a really simple little exercise in the workbook, but, you know, you can make this as big, as small as you want, and really go into the detail that you need to work out what's the lifestyle that you want to have and how much it's going to cost you. So I guess there's other things that are going to affect the strategy that you choose. And we're talking about renovating to sell or renovating to rent and the time frame and the goals that you have. And it's kind of, do you want to quit your job really soon? Do you want to retire early and comfortably? Do you want to get rich quickly? What are all your desires for your lifestyle and the needs of your family? And maybe it's just a desire to get out and get into more professional development or do something else. So I really hope that you made use of the tools provided for you. You've tracked your spending so you can concentrate on what's really important. And I know this is a little boring, but as an engineer, I loved spreadsheets, and I spent a lot of time tracking my spending over three months. And it got to the point where, as I shared in the videos, I knew exactly where my disposable income was and where I could cut my income and where I could actually start saving faster for a deposit. This, I guess, really reminds me of a quote from one of the beta testers, Craig Trethewey. He said at one stage when he was being interviewed, am I doing this for real? Am I really decided and committed to making money out of renovation, or am I just playing around the edges? Because I think a lot of people play around the edges. And the reality is that this is a really good indicator of you getting down and getting serious about where you can cut some money, where you can save some money, and where you can start making some money that can contribute to your strategy. Now, besides goals, we covered a lot of other things in that module. We talked a bit about strategy selection, as I said, the Trident strategy. We talked about the types of renovations, be they cosmetic or structural. And we also talked about the five Rs of renovations. So that was the refresh, the repair, the rejuvenate, the restructure, and, and the revamp. So we looked at the different types of renovations that you can do everything from cleaning out that old smelly place to completely knocking over the back of a property and doing something. Now, before I get too carried away, you've heard me say wee, wee, wee a bit. I want to introduce you to an integral part of the course and one of the co creators of the course and that's John Hubbard. He has been very much instrumental in putting all this together. So.

Hello John, hello Jane. Hello everybody. It's great to be here at last. It's really exciting after all this planning that it's actually happening.

It's a great day and John's been hiding behind the microphone and behind the camera for a long time. In actual fact, he's a professional renovator, has a trade background and he. He actually specialises in structural renovations. So he's our go to structural renovation guy. And of the two case studies that you're going to see featured later on in the modules when they're released, the Structural Renovation is one of John's own projects. So John's Structural renovation features that box at the back that we kind of saw a sneak peek of in the videos that led up to the course enrolments. It's really a structural renovation technique that once, I guess you've developed yourself and refined over the years and I think we're going to see it pop up all over Australia, to be honest.

I think so. I think so. It's pretty popular. There's a couple of people in Sydney, a couple people in Victoria that are looking at doing it. So it should translate into other states, no problem. It's just a really simple building solution without tying into roof lines and all that kind of thing. Probably. Yeah, it's a few modules away yet but it's something to look at.

That's so exciting. Yeah, yeah. I think it's module nine.

That's right, Module nine.

I went back and watched it twice. I liked it so much. And the cosmetic one as well. I guess my expertise is really in the cosmetic renovation and I'm into holding the properties and building a portfolio. Well, John, that property you end up flipping, didn't you? So together we can combine the strategies that you're looking at. So we've got some complementary skills and you're going to get the benefit from. Both of us in the course managed to get John behind the microphone finally to be part of it all. So you're going to learn a lot about John's innovative techniques, how he adds value as well in the structural case studies. And I guess having 25 years worth of building experience and bringing that to the party. When we get down to some of those simple little questions about plastering jobs and whatever, you've been there, done that. Yeah.

There should be a few of those I should know anyway. If not, I'll find out. I'll Google it.

And I guess the other thing is that I should probably mention that John is a professional video production person as well. So this amazing high definition video and cutting and editing and over 150 hours of filming that we did, it probably.

Is something like that.

Yeah, that's a lot of it. Which has been cut down considerably and edited all my bloopers out. Actually, I'm glad we didn't get to see a lot of those bloopers.

I run out of time, that's why.

Goodness. Well, that is John's background. So you've had a big background in tv, haven't you?

Yeah, background in TV and video production. I actually started out as a solid plasterer. That's my trade background. But then I kind of had a career change in the late 90s. But the renovations have been a constant all the way through. Even when I was in video production, I've always been renovating and buying and mainly living in the renovations and then in the last kind of three years doing them separate projects and not living in them, buying, renovating and selling.

So not having to wake up with plaster dust on your clothes and go to work like I used to.

I've done all that a few times.

Okay, well, I guess, gosh, we're down to it now. It's time to open the lines. I would love someone to put up their hand. I'm going to see if I've got any hands put up and. And we'll go and see what the first question is and I'll open up the lines. So over to you guys. This is your chance to have your questions answered. So as I said, those who put up their hands and I'll unmute you and let's have a chat. Don't be shy. Maybe no one can work out how to put up their hand. We do have a couple of questions coming through. And then. Kristen, are you going to ask the question? Let me just unmute you. Kristen, are you there? Hello? Hey, Kristen, how are you? I'm great. And yourself? Good, thank you. I see you've got a question you've put in our question box. Do you want to ask? Yeah, I hope that makes sense. Makes sense. Just regarding the difference between flipping and holding onto a property to rent, I'm just Wondering how the lenders would view it, whether there's any credit file implications with either in terms of borrowing the next time around. Okay, look, that is a really good question and it's one that we get to in the next module. I think the problem is you've probably found or a lot of you who have gone for finance in the last nine months. I have seen the lenders get a whole lot of very precious about doing their due diligence and going through and looking at people's credit file. And that's really come down from apra. And APRA, as a government bought body has essentially said we need to tighten up the way we do things. Obviously, we've seen what's happened in the US and they don't want it to be replicated here. The issue with keeping your credit file clean is if you do have a flipping strategy, then if you're doing it right, you might be doing two, three or four of these a year. So that means that not only are you getting those inquiries on your credit file, but as you allude to, Kristin, there's quite an issue in the fact that lenders can see that behaviour and at the end of the day they're making money out of having you as a longtime client and they're making money out of having you around for two to three years before they're actually making up on the cost of getting you into the bank. The problem is if you're flipping then they can see that you're not really a good bet for them and they're not going to be making money off you. So there is a number of ways that you can get around this and we will go into this in a lot more detail. But I know it is important for you when you are thinking about what your strategy is that you think up front and you consider all the implications. So it is really great that you are looking at that a couple of ways that you can get around it. If you have got a property already and you have a large amount of equity in the property, let's just say you have a $600,000 home and, and you've paid the thing off completely. And that would be nice for most people out there, but you might have bought a property 15 years ago for $300,000, but worked diligently on paying your $240,000 mortgage down, it might be down to $150,000 now. And we will go through in the next couple of modules how to work out how much equity you have and how much you can tap into and then your borrowing capacity. But the important thing is, if you actually had, for instance, the facility of a $400,000 line of credit or $400,000 loan, you could go out and buy a $300,000 property. You could pay the 10,000 to $15,000 in stamp duty and cost to set up. You'd have the funds there to complete the renovation using, let's say, 10% as a rule of thumb, of the value of the property and cover the selling costs as well from that $400,000 line of credit. Now, if you go and apply for one $400,000 loan, then obviously taking the money out and putting it in. Taking money out. Putting it in is not hitting your credit file. So that's one strategy around it for those that don't have that great big lump sum of money that they can just tap into. One of the things that I've done for my mortgage broken clients is I've looked into setting up relationships with lenders and using term deposits and portability of loans. So, for instance, let's say you had the same $300,000 property and you had an 80% loan against it. So you've got a $240,000 loan. If you're with a lender, then you can actually, when you sell that property, you could move the $240,000 loan not over to a new property straight away to give you a little bit of time, but over to a term deposit. So you'd probably have to put $245,000, $240,000 against that loan in a term deposit to keep the loan open. Obviously, you're paying interest as you're doing it, so you need to get your skates on and get into that new property sooner rather than later. But it's a way that you can actually keep the integrity of the loan without hitting your credit file. Now, just be aware, some lenders will go back and get a new application and want to do a new credit check when they do move securities, and other lenders don't. So it's important to actually know which lenders will do that and which ones don't. So I don't know. Does that answer your question for you, Kristin? Yes, thank you. I know it's important to know these things up front when you're thinking about your strategy, and you should think of those implications. Thanks. Yes, thanks.

Thanks for going first, too.

Yeah, absolutely. Brave. Okay, well, I can see Nigel's. No, we've got Kristen. Where's. Next question. Oh, I've got A hand raised. Amabel, let me unmute you. Amabel, can you hear me?

Hello?

Hey, how are you going? Yes, I can hear you. Can you hear me?

Yes, I'm good, thank you. What's your question?

Yeah, my question actually is more in relation to the actual goal setting part because I went through the actual module and I guess I'm just. I have my goals in terms of what passive income I want to achieve and what time frame I want in terms of deciding the investing strategy or the renovation strategy that works for me. I just have issues trying to figure out how to realistically assess if that's the right strategy that will help me achieve my goal, if that makes sense.

Yeah.

So I just, I've got my goal and I've got. Okay, you know, this is what ideally I'd like to do, but I just don't know how to assess properly whether the chosen strategy that I have will help me achieve that goal, whether it's realistic or not, or whether my goal is unrealistic or if I'm. Yeah, I hope I'm making sense.

So I guess what I'm hearing here is that your question is it's fine to say I want a passive income of $50,000 a year, and I realized that I times the 50 by 20, and that's a million dollars of net assets that have to be paid off to earning 5% for me to get that. But how do I know what the property looks like in 10 years time to give me that million dollars worth of net assets and the portfolio building to get there?

Yeah, that's right. What strategy am I choosing? Should I be choosing a more aggressive strategy like structural, or should I be okay with going with a. With a more cosmetic renovation?

Sure. This is probably where we get to share our different views. John. John's obviously buy and sell, and I'm obviously a buy and rent from experience. And we've both been successful in what we've done there. And I think that the question that you pose is irrelevant.

One, I, I think depending on, particularly where you're buying, where you are in the market.

Yep, exactly. We interviewed John Edwards and I think we've got some of his commentary coming up in the future. Modules where we talk to him about if you're going to flip a property, really what price point do you need to be buying at to make money? His numbers are somewhere above 600,000. Really had to be the purchase price. And I know some of the properties that you've been looking at with your business partner have been a Lot higher than that.

Yeah. The higher you go, and we talk about it a lot in the, in the coming modules, but the higher you go, the greater the spread of values, even in a street level. So you get houses, for instance, that in a, in a street where the average properties may be selling for 900,000, you might have, you know, properties in the high sevens going right up into the mid ones and that's when you've got some good meat there to really add some value. And most of those are structural, but whereas when you're not losing, when you're flipping, you lose a lot in the transaction. So hence the reason you need that big spread of values. But the way you do it, of course, is far cleverer than that because you don't get that hit in the cosmetic and holding.

The difficulty is that with flipping it, definitely it's possible. And we've got some of the beta testers that have joined us and you can ask this question on the Facebook because I know that we always get into debates about this over a glass of red wine with friends regularly. But the thing about, I guess from what I've seen successful flippers is that it's so cost competitive. And if you're talking in the $200,000 to $300,000 mark and we're talking about adding some value with a renovation that's going to be able to actually make you $30,000, $40,000, give you the income that you want to be able to achieve to make it worthwhile and your time worthwhile, then you really come back to that Trident strategy, in the sense the first one, really buying below the market and adding a really good renovation to add value is so key to that. And the important part of that is that trying to work out your strategy, as you can tell, we've gone around the question, but the answer is it's what you can afford personally, so what price point you can buy at to see if there is the differential there that you can add the value to flip and make money. So getting those numbers really nailed and we go into that in future modules so that you can actually build up those numbers yourself and be confident with it, because it's fine to actually mix the strategy up. I think most renovators that I've spoken to and even those who've started with a flipping strategy have got to the point where they've gone, we want to flip to make a bit of money so that we can hold for the future because we understand that the money, the wealth does come from capital growth in my mind, no doubt about it.

That'S the end game.

It is the end game. And I was very regularly asked in magazines, Margaret Lomas on one side who always used to say, buy positively geared properties. We had Monique Wakele on the other side saying, always buy capital growth blue chips. And they used to interview me because I say, well, I want both, because I've achieved that with renovation in capital cities in Sydney and Melbourne have got a property portfolio that the rents have grown, the values have grown. And when you've got two of the suburbs I was checking out last night in the latest Residex report, one in Kingsford and one in Darlington, those suburbs went up by 19% last year. And that's the key to fixing the right suburb. And when they've got one's got a median price of 1.2, so you've got 240 grand there and one's got a median price of 700, all of a sudden you're making $300,000 in capital growth without lifting a hammer. Lifting a hammer gets you there. Does that kind of put it in context for you, Amabel?

Yeah, it does, it does. I think basically. Basically it's something that you just have to. You'll end up going back to and building on it eventually. But like you said, I think in the module, as long as you have your goal clearly in your mind, the decisions you make really much easier, I think, or at least be focused.

There's no doubt in my mind that a rental yield and having an improved rental yield and a good rental yield is going to help you build your portfolio because it gives you the borrowing capacity to buy more. It gives you the holding capacity to be able to not eat mince every night. But it's the capital growth that's going to give you the end game. Which means I've got a portfolio worth 4 million bucks with a million dollars worth of equity that I can sell up and put that money into the bank and have that passive income that I want. Great question, thank you very much. Christine, we've got a question from Christine Cairns. I'm saying to unmute you. Hello, Christine? Christine, we can't hear you. Christine, I've got a question written here from Christine. She does have a hand up. Maybe there's a mic problem. We tried to decide which strategy to go for. We're a bit older, in our 50s, we own our own home, valued at approximately. Yep. With a line of credit against it. Which way shall we go? So I think we probably hit on that a little bit with Amabel's question, since you said thanks, maybe we did. But I think the important thing, age does come into it and let's be realistic. It's not just about the fact that you've done a great job in paying down your home and your home's obviously gone up in value, so you definitely have some equity there to do something with it. To give you an idea, you're talking about a $200,000 line of credit. The previous strategy I talked about in actually having a big line of credit, going out, buying a property, doing a renovation and selling it within that line of credit without having to go out for further funds. The reality is you're not really going to get a property for $150,000. You might have a couple of one bedroom units, but by the virtue of having one bedroom units, they possibly will be in a block of rundown units. Or we could be talking about those 50, 60, $70,000 properties that you see every now advertised in regional areas that aren't always in growth areas either that are going to give you some of the growth potential. So age is important for two reasons. One is you want to hop along and get onto it and give yourself maybe 10 years to create some wealth. I bought my first property 12 years ago and I haven't bought a property for quite a while. Obviously near a biker's den is where I currently am. The interesting thing is that from an age point of view, you also need to be very, very clear with the lender about your exit game. If you're talking about a 30 year mortgage and you're 55, then they're going to look at that and go, is this serious that someone's going to be around in 85 years paying this off and have the capacity to. So you really have to be very clear with your exit strategy and that's usually around. We're buying a number of properties, we're using the $200,000 line of credit, maybe 10% deposits. So you can buy a $400,000 property for $60,000 of that line of credit, do some renovations with it and buy and hold would get you two possible properties. It does come down to though your servicing capacity and based on your age, giving the lenders the end game position for you. So great, thank you for that. So let's have a chat to Daniel. Sees he's got his hand raised, but I can't see it. So I'm just going to unmute you. Daniel. Hello, Daniel.

Hey, Jane, how's it going?

Good. Obviously I hid that Hand raising thing from you?

Yeah, I couldn't find the hand thing. I was struggling with it.

That's okay. How can I help?

I guess my question and it's sort of. It will tie into other modules down the track that put me at a standstill with the strategy. I'm locked with equity at the moment. So it's correct capital growth for one of the properties. One thing that's tying into my goals is a joint venture with a friend of mine who has similar interest in property. And we're sort of struggling to find where in regards to percentages, where the value of time against the outlay of money we put into the renovation, where we can sort of divide it. He would be the time person investing the time into doing the renovation, whereas I would outlay the money and I'd probably be the one researching with the help of you in future modules where to find the property. But we're at a loss to find what is a way of splitting amount of me to put in against his time that he's investing into the renovation. You know what I mean?

Yeah. Look, Daniel, that is. It's a really good question. And it's a good question for a couple of reasons. You know, I've been. Well, I've had a mortgage broken business now since 2005 and I have once seen a successful joint JV in purchasing a property and splitting the time and the money question. And I have dealt with many friends and people who have done this. And I think the thing is that it's really hard to decide what the breakdown is of value. And the problem is you've got someone who's earning the money and has the cash or the collateral or the borrowing capacity, working hard, thinking that the person who's out on site is probably just hanging out with the guys having a beer in the afternoon. And the reality is the guy out on site is wishing he was back in the office where the other guy is sitting in the air conditioning and not losing fingernails. It is a really tough question, and it's one I don't have an answer to because I think that when it comes down to a JV situation, you've already recognised the fact that you do not have all the skills or you don't have all the assets. And the asset might be a skill, the asset might be the money, the asset might be the knowledge of the building or the asset could possibly just be the fact that you're very good at doing the due diligence and finding the property. Because there's no doubt in my mind, that every single one of those brings to the party a skill that is needed. And if it's not there, then you could lose money. So finding the right property in the right area could make you $50,000. As to losing the $50,000 and having the collateral to be able to buy the right property, be it the funds or being the borrowing capacity, is going to be the enabler that gets you into the property. And then having the skills to actually do the right renovation, those three things, you miss one of those and it all falls over. So I'm sorry, I don't have the answer for you. It might be something we could open up on Facebook, because there's probably some people there who've done JVs who might have some thoughts, but I've had clients who done a few flips and then gone into business with the builder who saw them making some money and it didn't go too well.

Whatever arrangement you come to, just make sure you do it up front, that's for sure.

Do it up front and have it in writing.

I bought a property with him in the past and that was successful. I don't have any issues about that. It's just to get into the whole renovation thing. We know that. Not times against us, but we know that we could invest our capital together to get into the market quicker, or we could wait and sit for another few years until we have that backing behind us individually.

Are you looking at flipping or holding?

Now that I've done the first module, I've realised probably the first few may look at doing the renovate and flip just to get the capital behind me. And then my main obvious goal is to renovate and hold as much as I can. But if I need to renovate and flip to start, that might be the first option.

Yeah. And if it's the difference of you being out of the market for five years, or. I mean, if you were looking at renovating and holding and you don't sound very old, so I'm making some assumptions here, but if you're looking at renovating.

26.

Yes, there you go. 26 is good. 26 is great. Started two years before me, actually, many years before me. You've already got it properly. But the thing is, if you were doing this, and where am I going with this? What I was going to say from a lending point of view, if you were talking about buying and holding with someone else and you're 26, life can change. You might end up with a partner, you may want to sell up and Buy a property you're guaranteeing they're part of their loan if the both of you are on the title. So if you've got a $400,000 loan, although in your mind you're going, I'm only paying for $200,000 of it, you've actually guaranteed the full $400,000. So every single lender will actually, when you go to borrowing your own name in the future, every lender will actually say you're up for 400 grand, although you're only getting half the rent. So it could impede you in the future. The only lender who doesn't do that is amp straight out and St. George and CBA, if you've got other lending with them and you can prove the other person can pay for their own way, etc. So one of the things that you might consider from a flipping point of view and going into this 50, 50 or whatever, and. And having had the experience with the person, I wouldn't be as concerned with doing that type of JV as to going into one that was a buy and hold at your age and then thinking about the implications of that in the future.

I think probably the most time consuming in terms of the division of roles is the due diligence. So someone really. You mitigate your risk with flipping by really doing thorough due diligence, which takes months, you know, three months at a minimum on a suburb. And that's once you've done your initial kind of narrowing down from a whole bunch of suburbs. So, yeah, you kind of. If you're thinking of who's putting in the most time, you'll probably spend more time doing the due diligence, or one of you will than you will actually doing the renovation in terms of hours, contact hours.

Yep. Definitely makes sense. Yep.

Great. Thanks for that. Great question.

Thanks, guys.

Okay, let's jump on to another one. Who was that? That was Daniel, wasn't it? Unmute you again? Where's the question here? We've got Sajeev. Sajeev, I'm going to unmute you. Hi, Sajeev.

You've got a.

Hello, Sajeev. Maybe we have another. Hey, Sajee, I'm going to read your question for you. What are your thoughts on the investment vehicle? Buying a property under individual names versus a trust, the pros and cons of each and what you guys do.

All yours.

Oh, I just had to hand this one to you. Gosh, maybe we don't have the webcam here. You can see this football going backwards and forwards. Sajiv. This is a really tough one. Let me tell you about my personal experience because I can't give you specific accounting or financial planning advice. I was one of those people back in 2001 that went to one of those many seminars that told you that you're going to lose everything unless you put it in a trust. And it had to be a hybrid discretionary trust with a corporate trustee. And, you know, it was definitely the thing to do. We had a buy and hold strategy. And I remember reading Dale Gatherum Goss, who was my accountant at the time's book Trust Magic, and he was tax deducting everything through his trust. Look, party time. Dale's a good guy. And so, you know, it seemed like I needed that because of the litigious nature of the world and if I was going to get sued, I could lose everything. I have to say, the setup costs and the fact that the implications of having no land tax exemptions and so paying $10,000 a year in land tax in New South Wales and having profits and funds quarantined in the trust and then having the ongoing trust costs every year and then subsequently having two or three trust changes to the legislation that meant that the accountants had to come and change the trust deeds. And this is without one of those complicated blood trusts from Adelaide that other accountants were selling. We actually looked into getting all of our properties. We only have two in a trust and we looked at getting those out of the trust. Last year. I think it was going to cost us about $70,000 in stamp duty to do that. And it was a real touch and go decision whether we're going to do it. That's how much we didn't see the value in it. Now, having said that, we have a buy and hold strategy from a buy and sell strategy. There's definitely some advantages. And you've used trusts, haven't you, John?

Yeah, I do, I do. And they're complicated, I think. Yeah, I'm not really in a position to give them advice. I would say find an accountant that's a good, reputable property accountant, explain your strategy fully and, and even compare their advice with other accountants. The idea is with flipping that, it's a bit of a way around the capital gains tax. There's also asset protection, which apparently is not as good as it used to be. So it's questionable whether it's worth it on that front anymore. But again, you really need to talk to people. I really don't know what I'm talking about. Good.

We'll tell you when we don't know what we're talking about. The other thing is that there's so many people that are in this course. So please jump on the Facebook and if you're an accountant or you're a financial planner or you've got some thoughts on that, or you've done it in the trust before. I mean, I've read so many books on trusts, and they still confuse me.

Mine confuses me.

Gosh, my husband told me I had to do my tax the other day so he could get the trust tax in, and I just went to jelly. It stresses me. So we have two of our properties in a trust, and the rest aren't. The other six aren't. So there you go, Sajeev. Thank you for your question. Let me just see if I've missed something here. Nope. I've got lots of questions. Oh, Louise. No, she doesn't hear me. Has anyone else got their hand up and would like a question answered? Ah, Nathan. Unmuting you right now. Nathan, do you have a question for us? Hello, Nathan, can you hear me? Unmuted. Nathan. I can't hear him. He's got a question up. I can see he's not being attentive, which means he's looking at a different screen. Maybe we can't hear us. I can. I can tell everything going on here. Nathan. Let's see if we can grab him. Oh, no, he's back.

He might have an audio problem. Perhaps.

Nathan, he's had his hand raised for 28 minutes as well.

We really should take it.

Okay. Nathan, can you hear me? Would you like to type in? Nathan, can you. Hello, Nathan. We'll type.

Okay, Maybe we'll go to another one and type in your question.

Oh, he can hear us. Hey, Nathan Graceland. We can't hear you. Would you like. This is Nathan Cranny. Yep. Not Nathan. Ming. Nathan, would you like to ask your question through the means of text?

Type it in. We might grab another one and come back to it.

Okay. Okay, I'm seeing a lot of familiar names here, guys. Have any of you got any questions that we haven't answered? If so, please just throw it in the box. No. Okay, well, whilst Nathan is typing, must be a big question because he's still typing. I'm hoping.

Five minutes time.

Yeah.

Okay. Oh, we've mostly answered his questions, but here's one. Oh, he doesn't. Okay. You have a lot of equity but not a job. Are there ways to get a loan? Says David. Okay, no problem. David. Nathan, if you can think of Another question whilst we're having a chat with David, please put it in the question box. David, the dilemma that you have is a dilemma that a lot of people go to. And it might not be that they don't have a job at mumps, might be that they don't have borrowing capacity. Now, I imagine that you potentially could have an income at some stage. I'm waiting for a yes, maybe at some stage. Yep, that's good. Okay, so there's some people who are on workers comp and other types of income that lenders won't always take. So the issue is when you have equity, there's a number of things that lenders are going to look at that we're going to get into in the next couple of modules. They're going to look at you and they're going to look at your assets. Now the asset we're going to deal with in a lot of modules coming up looking at you. And we kind of answered a few questions earlier about lenders and how they're looking at people at the moment. One of the things that you have to have is the capacity to be able to pay for the loan that you're taking out. And lenders have got more and more and more observant around this. So, you know, we had a situation recently where in the mortgage broking business where one of the assessors was going through the six months worth of savings statements and they saw that there was $90 coming out every month regularly. And they asked us what it was because it wasn't declared on their, their liabilities as a debt that they had. It turned out the husband, bless his little soul, had gone to the jewelry shop and laid by the ring for his wife's 40th. So we sprung, we ruined the surprise. But they were happy that they could answer it and they could get the property. But still, that's the kind of level of detail people are going down to. So if you can't even prove you have an income, there's an issue. If you have money in savings or you have a consistent proof of two years worth of dividends or any type of income that usually can be used if you're a casual, unfortunately, or have a second job, that second job, most lenders want to see you in that for two years. Some lenders will take one year if you have casual employment, then they want to see some consistency and usually over a year, if you have no income whatsoever, gone are the days where you could go and do a no doc loan, which was signing a piece of paper saying, yep, I can afford it. And even the low doc loans these days there are definitely documentation that's required around it. So if you're familiar with the low doc loans of old, it was putting your name on a piece of paper and sometimes your accountant would too. That said that this person can make their payments. Now the low doc loans with the major banks is sending your last four BAS statements as well. So they're definitely documentation loans. You're going to be hamstrung if you have no capacity to pay for the property. And unfortunately that's even if the property pays for itself. So the lenders have, I think they got a bit concerned about the blowout of rents that we've seen in a lot of the mining towns you've probably seen. And I know I've got clients who've bought in Moorembah and even Port Hedland who have been buying properties with the 23, $2,400 rents that have dropped back from $1,200 to $900 a week, which is still in anyone's game. A pretty good rent, but it's definitely not the returns they want. The lenders have got really tight on this home side. NAB announced about six weeks ago that they would max out rental yields at 6% in borrowing capacities. And today at 11, CBA came out and announced that they would only take a maximum of 8% of rental yields. So even if you've got a property that on paper pays for itself, they're looking for a substantial income elsewhere. So unfortunately.

Pretty tough.

Yeah. It's going to be really, really difficult for you, David, in doing what you're doing and maybe listening to some of the others about what they're doing with JVs and having someone fronting up with the borrowing capacity might be something that you could do. There is Asset lens and there are some solicitors still that do that type of stuff. And there is short term lending solutions where you can get 3 to 4% per month the funds. But you really need to have very tight numbers to know you are going to make a profit to be paying that much, especially if there is a blowout. I hope that helps.

Nathan's back.

Nathan. Oh my gosh. Nathan's definitely back. He's got lots of questions. Great, David, thanks. I'm glad we could help you. Okay. Spoke of Kingsford and Darlington. I know I speak of them a lot. Medium house prices. Yep. At 701.2. Can you expand more on this? Are you looking at buying at a high end price? Doing a good rental and flip. Okay, well, Nathan, you're going to get to see a bit more of I guess some of the renovations and my story as well as we go through. But essentially the properties that we bought were all bought around that 450 mark. So the first property I bought back in 2001 I bought for 425 and did the $50,000 renovation on it and nine months later it was worth 700,000. Today it's worth 1.2. The property in Darlington was the second one I bought and I spent 427,000 on that and it was in Sydney. The first was in Melbourne. The Melbourne one was a three story mansion at that price. The Sydney one was a 50 square meter, tiny little two bedroom terrace. But at the same price point. I've always kept my properties. I've never sold them. In actual fact, I don't know how to sell them. We have a section where we talk about selling your properties and we have some thoughts on how to do that because John's obviously done that numerous times. But I guess the thing is, no, I'm not buying at a high price point. At the time when I bought them, they were definitely around the medium price points. Sydney's now obviously crashed through the 700 mark and we've got ACT and Perth that are about to rebound in the next couple of weeks back above the highest every median they've had. But from my personal strategy, yes, they are very high price points now, but that's because we did a lot of predictive analysis and looking at what was the potential growth for those areas, getting in before they grew, getting in where they were gnarly and dirty and no one wanted to live there. Looking at the, you know, the trickle effect, nailing it basically. And that's how I came back, chosen those areas. So I hope that helps. Nathan, how does flipping, Nathan's follow up question, how does flipping help with capital gains tax reduction?

It doesn't?

No. Okay. The only way that flipping could help with capital gains tax reduction, if you had a $300,000 property and you sold it for $400,000, then you need to pay immediately the capital gains tax. Based on your tax rate and whether you've sold it within 12 months or not on the $100,000, you buy a $300,000 property and in 20 years you sell it, then it could be worth $2 million. And obviously you've got capital gains on that differential. So flipping in theory could help with capital gains tax because it's going to be Lower if you sell it sooner I can answer anything. I did. Good answer. Says David. Hope that helps, Nathan. Okay, Nigel, our mortgage broker sent us an email saying we've had no problems getting a loan for the first sized project. We are looking at doing great. However, wasn't official pre approval from a bank. Should we ask for an official pre approval from a bank? Okay, Nigel, so basically the question that I'm hearing from you is you've been told that the numbers have been run through and that you can afford the you say project. So I'm assuming this is a buy, renovate, hold project. Could be sell. You can afford the first project. Do you buy, renovate and flip. Okay. And you very definite. Because he put that in capitals. Yeah. So that's okay. Well, we're not in capitals anymore. Sorry. Look, one of the reasons that I don't rush out and get pre approvals for my clients at the moment is the banks are changing their policy. As I said, CBA came back with that 8% cap on borrowing capacity or rental yield today. That can affect borrowing capacity. Choiceland, which is funded by Advantage, which is funded by NAB, last week changed their assessment rate from 6.5% to 7%. We've got NAB using 7.5%, 7.4%. We've got ANZ at 7.6%. We've got CBA at 7.25. The banks are assessing your debts at a much higher rate than what the actual interest rate is with those changes. If you're still looking for your first property and you have a pre approval, which means your credit file has been hit and you've got three months, 90 days before they have to go and do a new reassessment, new pay slips, then if you're not going to be ready in that 90 days and you're going to have to go over and potentially your strategy changes. I know of one client who was on a buy and hold strategy and we got a pre approval and they went out and they found this great property and they bought the property and they came back two weeks later and said they decided to build a granny flat. Well, at 90%. Bank west is very happy to do a buy and hold of any property. But on granny flat constructions they have a 60% loan to value ratio. So the decision was you have to front up the mortgage insurance, lose the mortgage insurance and move and pay that again or change your strategy. Unfortunately, that's why you can't change a strategy or change your finance strategy midfield. So my, my answer to you would be if you're so far down the path of almost nailing where you're finding this property. And I'd hang out for two or three weeks before you think you may be there because we've got a lot of tools and these modules coming up for you. Then go ahead and get the official pre approval. Be aware that some banks pre approval is essentially the numbers that the broker or the bank its staff member puts in. I just ticked. And other banks pre approvals are a validation of employment with the mortgage insurers and everything. So just make sure that if you're getting a pre approval and going through that, that you're actually getting one that's being fully assessed. Sometimes you have to ask them to manually assess it. So for instance, banquets, they'll give you a pre approval based on the fact the numbers that you've given them work in the calculator. The reality might mean that although you think you're getting paid $800 a week, you're making a contribution to super or you're making a contribution to the gym or help current hecs debt or something that comes out, they take all that out and call that $600 per week your real income. And when you get to signing on the dotted line of the property and they go into the full assessment, you might find out that you're with the wrong bank. Then you have to go to another bank, you can get credit, hit again. The other bank is going to ask you about what the first credit inquiry is. So my answer is, if you're not ready yet, don't worry. Your broker has gone through and done the numbers for you. But if you're really close to nailing it and you've got down to the suburb and you're looking at the streets and you're looking at the properties in the streets, then I'd be getting pre approval.

Let me just expand on how you should protect your credit file. There. You just touched on that.

How to protect your credit file.

How multiple hits can.

Yeah, look, if you go to mycreditfile.com you can ask for your credit file, you can pay for it immediately or they'll send it for you for free and it will go through. And there's things on there that you may not be aware of. And as privacy changes, rather than just having the. You asked for a loan from St. George in 2007. Being on your credit file, most things stay on your credit file for five years. What you might get is that St. George has said that $200,000 loan is now $150,000. So they might start coming up with the actual balances as well. Your credit file is important. It's important to know what's on there. Anytime a mobile phone or anything that you apply for credit will go on there or any inquiry. However, it's actually the credit scoring that the banks do, which is the thing that we're seeing right now that is being the make or break of deals. So credit scoring might just be that you're new to the bank and you think that they'd welcome people open handed. It might just be that you've changed jobs a couple of times in the last couple of years or it might just be that you've moved a bit. You don't have the large amount of assets that you expected that you should have for the amount of liabilities that you have for your age. So that's, I guess protecting your credit file is really, really important. I wouldn't be hitting anyone with a pre approval unless they're really ready to go. Bank west pre approval is not held in much regard. Look, they are. I usually get a manual one if we're really tight on servicing and going down to the wire. Okay, I think we questioned that. I just wanted to answer David's question again because there might be a way that David, you can actually borrow to buy property if it's not a flipping strategy and that's buying in your super fund. Banks actually assess your borrowing capacity completely different in the super fund. And all they look at is your actual super fund and the capacity for the super fund itself to actually pay for the loan that you're taking out. So it might be an avenue that you can explore if you don't have any funds at the moment. Something innovative. I know. Oh, Nathan, Kelvin, Kelvin C. Let's see if we can get Kelvin on the phone. Hi Kelvin, can you hear us?

Yes.

Hi Jane, how are you? How are you?

John? Hey, Kelvin.

Yeah, my question is mainly on module one where my wife and I have sat down to identify our goal. The next challenge that we have is how do we know we have the correct strategy to work towards that goal. Basically the retirement income multiplied by 20 and then we get a figure and we say, for example, we have another 15 years before we want to retire. So basically I just want the next step to say, okay, should we look at 400,000 mark property, do a cosmetic renovation first and then move on to the next step? Or basically a little bit more like a suggestion of what we should consider.

Yeah, it's A good question, because there's a number of things that you need to throw into that mix. The first is as you kind of suggest, your borrowing capacity. So are you limited to a $300,000 property or maybe a $400,000 or 5, 6 or whatever it is, how many properties are going to get you there? Now the thing that's really important here is looking at the time frame. So you mentioned 15 years. And when you're looking at the time frame, when you're doing your goal setting, you're looking at you here in today's moment and you're projecting yourself out to 15 years and going, that's where I want to be. What's going to get me there? Are you there? Yeah. Can you hear me? Hello? Can you hear me?

Yes, you're back. Okay, that's good.

Okay, so the important thing is that you, you look at your position now and your borrowing capacity now. You fast forward to where you want to be and then you look at the capital gains tax. That capital gains tax got completely thrown the capital growth that you're going to experience. So that comes down to your buying criteria of what you're going to be able to afford now based on your borrowing capacity. But what capital growth that you need in that period of time.

It.

Hello? Can you hear me again? Hello? Yes, we're back on. Oh gosh, lots and lots of yeses. Somehow or other I managed to mute myself during that really interesting conversation. Okay, finally says Daniel, you've been sitting here in silence and no one's been telling me. Guys, get onto it. Okay, can you hear me? Who was I just talking to? Okay, alright, so let me just reiterate where I was. First of all, what we're talking about is we're looking, projecting where you are now into the long term. So you need to be able to understand where you are now. That is your borrowing capacity. You need to then consider your borrowing criteria for the future. Now your borrowing criteria, one of those things is going to be borrowing capacity, the limit of what you are actually going to buy the pert property at. So the median that you are looking at the property for, but also we're looking at things like the capital growth that you need to experience to create that equity for yourself. So for instance, if we're talking the typical 7% capital growth that's touted as the long term average. And having spoken to John Edwards, he told us, when we asked him where the market was going, he said that he believes that the market was going towards the long term. 20 year average, which is closer to 8 when we interviewed him about many, many things that you'll get to see in upcoming modules. But if we take 7%, we use the rule of 72, 72 divided by the 7% capital growth tells you how long it will take for that property to double in value. So that's 10 years. So we're looking in 10 years time that you need a million dollars of net assets sitting in the bank, driving some money for you. Then what you need to do is look at that net asset position then and look at the portfolio that you need to have around that asset position. So if you have a portfolio, for instance, of $2 million worth of property, and you have a million dollars worth of assets, then you need to then project it back into today's dollars and say, okay, well, based on the fact that you're doubling the value of the property within 10 years, $2 million then is equivalent to a million dollars now. A million dollars now you might be buying at an 80% loan to value ratio. So it's $800,000 worth of debt and $200,000 worth of equity. So it's really important to be able to kind of sit now in where you're located in today's situation, your borrowing capacity, making your plans about what you want to achieve in the time frame you want. But understand it's going to be growth of the properties that are going to get you there. And that's why when we're talking about getting in and buying properties, getting in, buying properties as you can afford them and as you can bear them, so you're not eating mints every night, but also getting in and buying them quickly so that you've got the time and the growth that's going to get you to your goals in the time frame that you want. Because there's no doubt that the properties you buy today are going to be worth a lot more in 10 years time than the properties that you've bought in year nine, because you're not going to have that much growth around them. To answer your question, you've worked out what your future income is that you want. You've translated that to the equity that you need to have sitting in a bank. And then you've translated that to, well, how many properties does that look like? What would be my loan to value ratio at that point in time? The loan to value ratio might be 50%. And you bring that back based on the capital growth predictions or capital growth criteria that you've decided on, how many properties that you need to buy in quick progression in the next couple of years. That's going to get you to that portfolio. Does that make sense?

Yeah.

Did you. Oh, great. Thanks for that.

No worries.

Appreciate it.

I appreciate you.

If no one else does, you know. Yep. Kelford. Awesome. Excellent. All right. Other than, like lines of hundreds of people saying, yes, we can hear you now, do we have any more questions? I'm almost too scared to go across and tap on here. Okay.

Someone asks a question.

Okay, we're getting to the end, guys. Get us a question. Just make sure you tell me in the future when you hear. When you don't hear us.

They actually, a couple of them did. I was a bit slow to pick up on.

Oh, really? You're supposed to be my question reader. Oh, Jane, can you explain how to get on that Facebook page again? How about. Do you want to explain that, John?

I could probably answer that one.

Support@yourpropertysuccess.com John.

So we'll be sending you a link. If you haven't received one already, you'll get a link tomorrow to the Facebook page or if that fails, we can invite you. The. The problem with that is we just need to know which email address your Facebook account is linked to. So it's probably just easier that you wait for the link tomorrow if you want to go there. In the meantime, it's facebook.comgroups thereenovator network.

The Renovator Network.

The Renovator network.

Sounds good. That's us. Actually, I noticed there's a bit of activity on there today. Discussion about fans.

Yes, there was a few discussions on there. I missed the one about fans. There was one about decking.

There's a lot about decks. There's a decks as well. Okay, now I'm just going to run through these questions one more time. Oh, Nicole, how do you realistically deal with managing a renovation if you wish to purchase interstate or not in your own area?

Yeah, that's tough. There's a few guys that ask that question. Nathan Ming from up on the Murray there is struggling with the same thing. I've done it and I've literally, you know, project managed myself, loaded up my ute and driven up to New South Wales and bought all my goods before I left because I had my suppliers that I knew and all that kind of stuff. And I guess it kind of depends on the size of the renovation. If it's. Oh, hello, we've lost audio, so can you type in if you can still hear me, please? And we'll just have A go at unmuting again. So can you guys hear us? You're back. Okay. Yeah. So we don't know why that's happening, but we fix next. We're back. Yeah, we'll fix it next. Yeah. So I'm not quite sure what we got up to, but yeah, I've done it and driven interstate with a ute full of white grass goods and all sorts of bits and pieces. And that particular renovation was kind of a lower end cosmetic renovation. I think it was about somewhere in around the 15 grand mark. And I think it took me a couple of weeks and I was doing some work and getting some guys in and I just stayed, you know, at the local pub and tried to save money that way and that kind of thing. But it's difficult. I think it would be a struggle to manage, particularly manage tradesmen remotely. I can't see how you could do that. Perhaps there's people that have done it and have got systems and ways of doing it, but personally I would find it difficult.

I've always project managed my jobs. However, a situation arose where we did have issues on bathroom leaking into the kitchen below. And I just couldn't physically be down in Melbourne while I was living and working in Sydney and flying interstate for work. And basically I hired a project manager who managed the situation. Now they were paying. I paid them a 10% premium, which I thought was great.

10% on the cost?

Yeah. However, I didn't make some variations and they came back and said variations are at 20%. So that was a bit of an ouch. But they look, I was still a little bit of a control freak and I flew down a couple of times. I chose all the PC items and checked on the work. And I think any of you who've done renovations or experienced renovations, even if you've project managed them yourself and you've marked with, I don't know, a highlighter, a whiteboard marker on the walls in a bathroom. This is where I want this and this is where I want that. Invariably you often walk in and you get things in the wrong place and you're there every day on site, ask questions every day. You're putting out fires constantly, every single day. And having a project manager. I'm all for outsourcing to professionals and getting referrals. And if you've done your due diligence to say that the property is going to be a property that is interstate and is a property that you believe is going to fit your criteria, don't let your physical presence hold it back. But realise that you're going to have to have a very trusted resource to assist you. And often the rental managers can give some really good assistance there. I think someone shaking their head there. I know who's sitting listening to this at the moment going, my rental manager at the moment is not helping me out in Brisbane because I've had the conversation with her today about it.

I think a lot of it's down supplies is the big one too, because that's where you really. That's where you really make your money in the renovation stage, getting really good suppliers from everything from taps to vanities.

To baths to timber, which is the PC items. Rosalind.

Yeah, yep.

Sourcing the taps and the baths are the discount. Even though they look sensational, they're the vanity that everyone else is paying 1500 for that you're getting them for 300.

Yeah. So that, that would probably come into your decision with your project manager too, if they. If they're kind of thinking along the same lines. Because if you get guys that work for owner occupiers, they're often in a completely different mindset to the way we work because it's, you know, it's. The owner occupier is putting in stuff that they're going to have there for 30 years. They want to, you know, they're growing their family there and they don't want to move for ages. So it's a different kettle of fish altogether from, from the way we do it. So, yeah, there'd be a couple of things to consider, but I think project manager is probably the only way you can realistically do it, unless you're actually going to be physically on the ground yourself.

Absolutely. And I know, I know a couple of people who are on the call tonight and they've physically got up and driven at 3 o' clock in the morning out to central New South Wales and worked on a property themselves all weekend and then driven back to the corporate job and I guess for some really quick little cosmetic stuff, that is definitely achievable. I mean, I've learned my lesson in painting myself and it took us months and months and 20 hours every weekend to paint this three story internal property. And the property next door, when we had to move, was done within a week by a qualified painter. So just because you can get to the job and you think it's saving you a bit of money, don't underestimate the cost of not having that property either back on the market or having it rented out. Andre's got a question here. Have you thought about putting together a buyer's group so we can get stuff discounted? Yes, we have. And we might be on to that next one.

Give it a go. They tend to be, a lot of the times, Andre, they tend to be moving targets. I find, even between renovations, the next I find a really good supplier, it might be from a wall hung vanity that's coming out from China. And then the next time, the next Renault comes around and I go back out there and now it's gone. And now the stock that they've got isn't anything near the quality that they have. But then I'll find another one or I've got a second, a couple of backups as well. So they tend to what I've found in the past. And I've actually been in some buying groups. A lot of the time I haven't used them because I found that I could source stuff more effectively myself and because things change so quickly, particularly with the imports. That's been my experience anyway, but we're going to try and put one together anyway.

Yeah, well. And actually I was speaking to someone the other day who spent many years contacting a lot of different providers of paint, etcetera, Across Australia and putting together a bit of a savings network. And we'll be chatting to her in the future and seeing whatever we introduce into, you know, future launches. If we survive another enrollment period, we will definitely, you know, let you guys know what's going on. So I think we've. We might have maxed out on the questions, exhausted them and, oh, gosh, the last one just snuck in their wing. Do you have a network of referrals of tradies that you use in each state? You know what, I've given up on recommending people because I end up being responsible.

It's really hard to recommend tradesmen.

For.

A few reasons and I've been. It's way easier with suppliers to put it that way, because you get. Yeah, the tradesmen that I hire, you.

Know what it's like.

Yeah, go on.

It's like giving someone a tip for Melbourne cup day. If you win, you're a hero if you lose, which invariably is going to be a lot of people.

But the difference with this is the horse hates you too.

Yeah, exactly, exactly. The trading hates you. Yeah, look, I think it's a good question wing, and it's one that running the little renovation courses in the Sydney Community College that I used to pull together my trades in Melbourne and Sydney that I used to use. And then I get these Calls going, he didn't turn up. And I'm like, oh, gosh, I don't think that's my problem.

People have different expectations of tradesman turn. We kind of go into that in the managing the schedule. And I tend to use guys that I'm not worried too much about if they're cleaning up. And in fact, if they're cleaning up, particularly on my time, I don't like that one bit.

Because you're paying for it.

Yeah, that's right. It's a complete waste of money. And the minute they're not doing whatever their skill is, it's time wasted in my book, where you get other people. And that's a really big priority to them. And my attitude is, well, just grabbing room and clean up yourself, you know, it's not that hard. So, yeah, people. People have different attitudes to it. And I know it's saying there's anything wrong with that expectation particularly, but it's kind of different if in my jobs, they're projects, they're not my own home, so I'm not living in them, in, you know, in it and that kind of thing. So that's my approach. So my tradies will probably turn up, leave a big mess and leave. And their job might be really good.

It really upset me.

Yeah, that's right. But you might think they're a real slob.

Okay, Andre. Oh, gosh, he's stealing some of my thunder here. He says, get into the home improvement pages, get three quotes for all the tradesmen for free.

Service seeking is very popular at the moment.

Yeah, look, I like service seeking. I've used them for everything from hanging blinds to painting to removalists and a great removalist. And essentially the guys lose their ability to quote on jobs if they don't turn up, which is. I think one of the biggest problems with getting trades is actually getting the quote. And when you actually have them working for you is when they take off to go and quote. So obviously they need to keep their business going. Okay, guys, we are going to move on. We've got a few more questions there about trades, which will probably get to. When we get to the trade section because we're still at the goals and module, the goal setting and strategy setting. So next week, very exciting. We have module two. Very excited about module two.

Actually the first big one.

I know it is, isn't it? It's a cracker. Gosh, you know, we recorded this months ago and I go back and look at these videos now and I think, God, this is so good. I can't wait for these people to get into them.

You forget how much work we actually put into it.

I know. Well, you guys are all going to benefit from this. Now, I just wanted to, I guess, wrap things up. Make sure you get into that Facebook page, introduce yourself, let us know, share your goals if you want. This is your area where you can really add some value, contribute. There's a question there about can my partner also. My partner says you have a great voice. Thanks, Wing. Can my partner join the Facebook group as well? The fact is that we've said that this is for a household and we want people to be involved. And if you just want to send us your partner's email address so we can invite them, we'll do that. But no neighbors. All right, look, if you have any further questions, don't be shy. I understand that sometimes jumping on these calls and putting your hand up and coordinating microphones and different things can be a bit scary. We've made an audio recording of this call. We're going to have it Downloadable as an MP3 file so you can put it on your ipod and listen to it as you walk around the park in the mornings. It's going to be under the file section of the Facebook group. We're actually going to have the recording in a couple of days of this Q and A call. Also up in the module 1 under the bonus section, so you can pull that out, listen to it again and look, I should have mentioned earlier, if you disclose information on these calls that you want omitted from the recordings and personal information or personal financial information or whatever, it's really important, let me know because I've got an editor sitting next to me. We can edit that out. And we realise that sometimes. If you found that, just let us.

Know before we post it on there.

Yeah, that would be handy. Especially like, oh, I've got this great property I'm going to bid on on Saturday. No one knows how good it is. It's 10 Holt Street. Morseman. It's like, oh, dammit. Okay, so look, our default position in this course is that you're going to get everything that we've got in knowledge. We don't know it, we're going to find it out for you. The more you contribute to the group, the more you're going to get out of it. We do absolutely respect your privacy 100%. So let us know after the webinar pretty much straight away, if you have any issues or any information that came out, we can bleep it out. As I read Questions. I'll try to self edit some things out tomorrow. You'll have access to module two, which is great. It's looking sensational. It's really exciting. This is where we really get into the systematic narrowing down from those 14,000 suburbs in Australia down to the short list of your three to five suburbs. So it's kind of like going on a detective journey, discovering the best renovation suburbs that are going to match your specific criteria. It's really important in this module that you get into this module and complete it before next week because the questions that come up about it are you won't be able to move forward if you have a question and there is.

Bound to be questions.

There has to be questions. I'm not going to tell you where to buy though. But it really comes down to getting in, watching these videos in your time, going to a workbook, doing some of the exercises. We know that you're not going to get all the exercises in every single module done every single week because some of them could take weeks, particularly this one. We get that, we really get that. However, you know, make a start and if you come across a stumbling block, if it's something that means that you just cannot get going at all, get on Facebook, put your message up there and we'll try to get it sorted for you.

Kelly, there is a link in module 2 for the suburb maps, where you.

Can buy the maps from. Yeah, Yep.

I can't recall it off the top of my head.

No, nor could I.

So it might be Matt's online.

Okay.

Yep.

Anyway, we can get that to you if you post it in the Facebook group. I'll answer that question there.

Oh, and we have had a few people asking about getting early access to the modules. We really spent. In actual fact, I've spent a couple of years trying to learn the very best adult education. And I know that you're really eager to jump ahead especially to check out those case studies in module 8, 9 and stuff and get to the glory stuff. I guess what we have found is, although I've been told that 5% of people who buy courses actually put it into practice, those who go through a systematic module with a group of people, answer questions and work through it together and put the time and effort into it and don't just jump to head to the next module when they get stuck or they think they know it are the ones that actually do it. So we want to be, we want to be the creators of successful renovators rather than people who just sell courses. And I know, sometimes you kind of just want to jump in and jump straight ahead. Unfortunately, we're going to keep you at bay.

It would have been easy for us just to stick it on there, at least all 12 modules at once, and take your money and walk away kind of thing.

No Q and A calls?

No Q and A calls.

Yeah, we're dedicated to really helping you guys out and, you know, by doing some. A lot of study. I've spent a lot of time in the States trying to work out the best way to put the metal to the pedal kind of thing and make this happen for you. And this is the way we're doing it. Okay, well, that is it. I'm really, really keen to hear what you guys think. Next week. I want to make a quick announcement about next week. It's going to be at 12:30 on Tuesday. I'm going to alternate the calls between evening and daytime just because some people can do lunches, some people can do nights, some people have kids, some people work at nights. Everything's going to be recorded. If you have questions, burning desire questions that you can't get on the call, then put them on Facebook and we'll try to get to them. People who turn up will get their questions answered first, but we just want to make sure it's fair for everyone and give you the alternate. So there you go. Win yes. The answer is yes. Okay. All right, guys, all the best. And until next time week, to your property success. See ya.