Module 6 Q&A 21 01 2014

Hello and welcome to the Ultimate Guide to Renovation. We're back, aren't we, John? We are, we're back.

Bit heavier than we left after Christmas. I'm speaking for myself there.

Anyway, let's not look too closely into that. Hey, look, I hope everyone's back and energised. I know that sort of 2014 is going to be your year. Obviously there's been a lot of conversation on Facebook about some resolutions and things that people are going to be doing this year. So I'm sure that the ultimate garden renovation will give you some tools and tricks and everything that you need to start fulfilling that goal. So very exciting. Look, we're going to be back this week where we left off just before Christmas at Module six. And I know many of you are well ahead of Module six now, but it's important that we address all the questions as they apply to each module. So this week and next week we'll be concentrating modules 6 and 7. And then starting in March with the launch of the 2014 Ultimate Guide to Renovation course, we're going to return to the other modules. However, as anytime, if you have any question about anything that you want to go over and you want to discuss with us, please put it forward. Now. I just want to check that everyone can hear us, so either raise your hand or put in a quick question saying, yes, I hear you into the page, Please let me display my screen. Oh, I have a yes, I hear you. Which is fantastic. Great. Okay, so before I go any further, I should mention that my co creator of the Ultimate Guide of Renovation, John, is here and about to facilitate the running of the it because once again, I'm not completely across all that. And this week we're going to look at a really interesting topic.

What is it?

Well, it is offers and options, so negotiations. And we've got a few people in our private Facebook page that real estate agents or in the real estate industry, and even they've come back and said that there's some really some great content and information in here. So I'm really keen to get into it.

Yeah, I heard one of the someone's wife watched it, who's a real estate agent. She got a good kick out of the whole bits about how agents are paid. Oh, really? And all that kind of stuff. Yeah, she didn't like us much for letting out all those secrets.

Ah, there you go. Well, I had. I was approached by an Australian property investor last week to discuss that exact topic. And I said, well, I have a little bit of a video. I can share with you. John, help me out. So we grabbed five minutes of the long hour that you've got in this module and March edition of Australian Property Investor. You'll see some information there about how to negotiate with real estate agents. They'll be interested in seeing that article in its full so once again, before we go any further, we'll just get down to our tech stuff here. I'm looking forward to your questions. This week we have had a few people actually send some in. And once again, if you're having any problems with your computers or you're experiencing any hearing issues and you can't hear the questions, there is an option to call in on the telephone. The telephone number can be found in the sidebar under the audio options in the drop down menu. You can call that number from a landline or mobile or use Skype. So when you have a question, all you need to do is raise your hand by pressing the little hand icon in the sidebar menu. It's quite small and as we've learned, it's not on the iPad version. So if you do have a question, please either raise your hand or just type in information into the question box as most of you have done already, which is great. So look, once that you have raised your hand or indicated you've got a question, I will unmute your line. Please let us know if you're at work or on the bus, as some people have been in the past, and you can't talk and we'll just respond to you and not embarrass you. Whilst you're sitting on the bus, you will hear a message that says your line has been unmuted, you know you're on and then we'll start talking. So as always, there's never a silly or a dumb question and I really encourage you to raise your hand and have a chat with us. As always, be sure that you're making really good use of the Facebook group. Ask your questions there as they come up. There's some really great discussions going on there. Actually. I think Peter's post, she came back to me this morning and said, have I put in too much information? Am I killing people with too much content? I said that's exactly what people want to see. She's bought and renovated and had her evaluation done and it's been relatively quick too, isn't it? Yeah, well it's interesting to see the process that she's been through and the numbers in real life.

I'm so glad you got her to get the valuation because that just rounded it all off.

Yeah. And I mean, look, at the moment there's a number of lenders that do upfront valuations for free and you know, we try not to spoil that relationship by just willy nilly doing those, but sometimes there's other lenders. Like at the moment, CBA's got a $49 deal on, so rather than spending 500 bucks getting a valuation valuer out, we were able to get the value out there. Have a look whilst she had the property actually staged as well. Regardless of what. Every valuer I've spoken to who's told me that if they are never influenced by a staged property, they are.

It's human nature, can't help it.

I know, exactly. So it's all good. But guys, get into that Facebook page that really is your area and you can ask any questions there, you can post information and I'd love for you to share some stuff. There's been some really interesting sharing with some articles. We've got a few people sharing some of their resources, their dot maps.

Yep. Steve's there trying to knock up a software system for the pin maps and.

He'S also trying to come up with some other program which I can't endorse. I'm not sure if it's legal or you're able to do whatever is being done with that scraping, but what happens on the private Facebook page stays on the private Facebook page, I guess just lastly onto tech support. A reminder, this is not a tech support call. If you are experiencing any problems with the videos, the downloads, anything, please email my team@supportyourpropertysuccess.com and we'll get onto it as soon as possible. But I haven't had any issues or heard of any issues. People are enjoying the videos and watching. Just a quick question to those that are on the call live at the moment. Are you finding the length of the videos handy and the download to your itunes helpful? Is anyone actually downloading to itunes? We put a lot of effort in making sure that they were coming through labeled correctly. So you didn't get a list of just downloads? Yeah, the audio files. Yeah, the audio files. Great. So here we got some people downloading, very handy. Fantastic. And what about the length of the videos? When our beta test is told that 20 minutes, half an hour is too long, we've brought them down to seven to 10 minutes each. Everyone happy with that?

Four to seven, pretty well.

Thumbs up, good length. Great. That's what I'd like to hear. A bit of interaction, lots of People talking to us. So let's move on to module six. And as I said, we're at module six just before Christmas. Module 11 will be out tomorrow, so there's a few in there between.

Yeah, so we're a little out of whack because. Because Christmas interfered.

Well, we knew that you needed a lot of extra help for those first five because it was really locating the property and the dot maps and the pin maps and all of those research tools. I hope a lot of you have managed to get into that. The people online at the moment have you had a go at doing at least a dot map and starting to look at areas and finding the trickle effect and the potential hot spots.

Ripple.

You got in trouble for saying, I.

Know trickle and ripple. Someone kept asking me why I interchange. I'm like, hey, I'm an engineer. Spill.

Ripple sounds better.

Ripple does, doesn't it? Great. Well, it's good to see that people are doing it. And part of the process is once you've actually found the area to invest in and it meets your buying criteria and then you find the actual street and the property and you do your assessment and we've been through the checklists, etc for those inspections, we get to negotiate.

That's a fun bit.

It is. You've done a lot of this, haven't you?

I like this. I love the fact that you can kind of, well, you could spend kind of, I don't know, three days in a backyard and 40 degrees building a decking that might add 10 grand to your house, or you could spend five minutes being a little bit cagey about your negotiations and earn the same amount or more. So talking for money appeals to me a great deal.

And I guess the fact is it really adds to that. Buying below the market gets you that leg up straight away. I speak to people who have had the opportunity to buy below the market and as you said, they might save themselves 25 grand. In actual fact, based on a $250,000 profit, that's 10% per annum growth. That's a year that they jumped ahead. So don't underestimate the power of what negotiations do to helping you build not just equity, but building the opportunity to get to your goals quicker by actually alleviating some of the years you have to be in the market.

Yeah, absolutely. And it's not always about bottom lining the other person either. It's more about just giving them what they're after finding out, taking the effort to find out what they actually want and what's motivating Them and then kind of putting it in a way that kind of suits their circumstances.

Well, you've been putting in a lot of offers in the last few months. Have you find the power or the benefit in asking why people are selling?

Yeah, I'm always trying to do that, particularly around the agents. The agents can be a little cagey about why the vendor's selling and I guess the ones that aren't cagey don't hire them to sell your own house. But yeah, I'm always trying to find out if they're moving or if they see changes or tree changes or you know, what, what's the kind of thing if, would it be a quicker settlement and I'll put in my three offers and then for instance, my highest price, sorry, my lowest price might be completely suited to what they want. So it might be a 30 day settlement and it might be, you know, that will clean up and they don't have to, they can leave what they don't need there and all the rest of it and then, you know, the next offer will go up which will be more in my favor, but the, the price will be a little bit higher.

That multiple offer strategy I think is, it's really interesting and it wasn't, I heard it a few years ago and at the time I kind of light bulb went on and I thought, well, why wouldn't you put in multiple offers? And I guess the key is also having that deadline as well. They're not there forever and I've definitely used that deadline to kind of force.

The hand and the dean's trick of putting the offer because we have the. They open for inspections on a Thursday night here in Melbourne and Medine, a friend of Jane, puts the offers in on the Thursday night and then the offer expires Friday morning. So the agents are out doing their open homes and they've got no chance to shop around your offer or they're under the pump to do so.

Strategy as all strategies. And I guess it's interesting, I had a. I always ask why the people are selling and as you indicate, probably 10% of the time you get a truthful answer. But when you actually find out there's a bit of a pressure on, it really gives you the leg up in negotiating and I think a lot of people miss that. And I had a client just before Christmas and she's really been looking in the Sydney market for a potential home for, I'd say since February 2013. And she got to the point in missing out on a few properties. But the Market had moved so considerably in a North Shore, lower North Shore area in Sydney that prices were going up. $200,000 of the similar quality property that was on sale in February compared to October, November. And it was starting to get outside her borrowing capacity and what she was comfortable with. And the agent, there was a property in particular that she was interested in and the agent had a number and it was high for her and she walked away. Three weeks later agent came back and said the people have just bought a house, they found their ideal house and that's what we're finding in this fast market is that in particular in Sydney. I have so many clients at the moment buying in Sydney that are owner occupiers because they're worried that they'll be priced out of ever upgrading. So they buying now and often they're finding the property they want to buy now and selling their having to sell after. And bridging loans are just a very difficult thing to facilitate and to afford. You have to have so much equity in your property which a lot of people have. And hence what I'm seeing is in this case the agent came back and had knocked off $80,000 off the purchase price and made it affordable for her. And they stepped in and signed up and she was in a bit of the control seat and got some extra things thrown in. So it's all good.

Yeah.

And that's, I guess that's the power of being able to negotiate and know what the other circumstances are too.

Yeah. Well, they've got a compelling reason to sell, haven't they? They're not going to hang around forever. It's a bit like that when you before Christmas, I think we mentioned that on the last call that if you're selling a home and you're coming up to Christmas, you want to get it sold, otherwise you're kind of stuck with it until February, March when the market kind of comes on again. So when I'm selling I really try not to sell any later than early November because the chances are if it doesn't go at auction then I'm kind of over a barrel because I've got another couple of months worth of repayments.

And conversely buying that November I would normally kind of cut. My properties are in universities and hospitals so I'm looking to rent in January, end of January, February and that November, six weeks you get mid January with a six week settlement. So I then have the property available to rent. Now if you're looking at buying mid year then a lot of people don't change Employment mid year and you don't have a lot of the university students looking mid year for properties. So one of my risk minimizing strategies is being near those large infrastructure type of rental demand generators and hence January and February are the times that I want to rent and that's why I'm always, you know, it's interesting about renting as well. If someone wants to renew their lease for six months, I'd rather them often to go month to month until we could renew in the January, February or I might renew for nine months or.

Six months so they don't get out of sync with that January thing.

Yeah, that's how important it is to me.

So.

But I'm sure we'll get to that in a whole other module. Won't we run through some of these things that we have in module 6, deciding the offer amount, making offers subject to and I mean gosh, I've seen some pretty doozy subject to's including, you know, take my wife and kids almost.

To the extent I think you just try it on to start with them and then when they just laugh at you, you might take a couple off.

Exactly. Look, I heard a saying once and maybe some of the people online could verify this to me, but there was a saying that was something like the more you add, the less chance you've got. But it was a catchy saying which was in reference to offers and it was essentially the more subject to that you include, the less chance that you really have that people are saying yes.

Sometimes it's blocking out things that they've put in too because often they can put in some pretty nasty clauses in their contracts too.

What are some of the nasty ones you've seen?

Oh, mainly things about or particularly nasty ones if you default or not make the settlement.

Just, you know, interest rates, we usually change the interest rate. I mean sometimes they've got 4% a day or something. I think we put it down to 1% or something. Often the biggest change we make to those contracts.

Yeah, that'll be the most common one. Yeah, I can't think of some of the other ones.

So some of the things might be that you want included in your subject to that we went through in the module is that you might want a longer settlement, you might want them to leave the chandelier, you might want some. You might need to go through the contract carefully because often what they'll do is they'll actually exclude things. So you know, and you know, this is why that pre settlement inspection is also very important. The Day before or the day of the actual settlement is they might change the mealy dishwasher over for a dish lace. So, you know, making sure that you know exactly what you're buying as well and doing those inspections. I don't know if I shared this with you before, but I insisted. A client once went and do one of these inspections and he just poohed the whole thing. And finally I convinced him, go do it. And he went the day before and the tenant was still there. And he had his wife and kids and removalists turning up the next day to move in. And the house was not vacant. And it was a guy who was with the defence force. The defense force hadn't moved him, so he refused to move somewhere else.

So you hear that? What's the. I mean, it seems to me I've kind of.

Supposedly there's sheriff involved.

Is it because I've. I've had it before where I've turned up and it's supposed to be vacant possession. And the house is full of furniture. The under the house is stacked with stuff and there's crap all around the backyard. And it just seems so much of a hassle to, you know, particularly when you're all geared up to start the renovation day one.

Tell you how funny. Okay, this is completely off topic. Do you mind if I share?

No, go ahead.

No one's complaining at the moment.

We'll stop if you ask a question.

If you ask a question, we'll stop. But we had tenants a tenancy cease and I went and did an inspection prior to giving their bond back or releasing it to the agent, letting the agent release it. And they left a washing machine in the laundry.

I thought you could say a goat or a sheep.

Right on a goat, not a sheep. They left a washing machine in the laundry and we went to move it out and it didn't fit out the door. And they had actually removed the door jambs to get it in. So we had to take the door jambs off, take it out, put it out the back. And the cost of removing came off the bond.

Yeah.

Okay, so the little removalist guy came and took it away to the tip.

Yeah, well, that one, there's a couple of pictures of the one in Coburg that I did maybe three years ago. There's a couple of pictures in the course of it, but that one, it was an old Greek guy and he. When we went into settlement, we weren't sure whether he was home or not because there was kind of lights on and all that kind of stuff. And we had the key. So I kind of knocked for a while and I went in and in the kitchen his paper was there. His coffee cup was kind of quarter full. It was literally like he just walked down the street and he was on the way back and I called up the agent saying has he actually left?

There's all his stuff here and everything like that.

Apparently he's just caught a cab to the airport and taken off. Taken off? Yeah, he was going back to the.

He was happy with his money.

Yeah.

I'm out of here. So you got furniture.

Yeah, record players and all sorts of stuff.

Oh my God. One of my favourite shows is Auction Hunter.

Yeah.

And those guys. Weren't they fart in those storage units? Okay, yeah, I'm off topic. All right, let's have a look back.

At more things than what's my storage unit now? All that stuff.

Is it? Yeah. God, I'd love to do that. Making multiple office. We kind of looked at the selling process, you know, private treaty or auction. And you know, private treaties is. I don't know. What do you usually do, John? What do you see in Melbourne as being the. Because every state really is different. Every town is different.

Yeah. I don't know if there's a terminology change in the state too.

By tender often.

Yeah. Okay.

So. But yeah, I guess the thing is some areas are really big auction areas. Sometimes at that very high price point you're looking at private tenders. I've had a client who even at a $750,000 price point in Sydney did a private tender and you know, the tenders are opened up at 12 o' clock on day dot. And the person with the biggest number one. Which is a strange process. You felt it encouraged competition. I personally would walk away from something like that.

Yeah. I don't get involved in that kind of thing. As a buyer.

How agents are paid. That generated. A bit of fun, isn't it, when you actually understand the fact that most agents would keep their own personal property on the market for longer.

What was that? Do you remember the end figure, the $10,000? It was 90 bucks, wasn't it?

Yes. So an additional $10,000 on a property purchase and we did it. $300,000. You know, if you're looking at a 3% selling fee that the agency gets, about 50% or more goes to the director and then the remaining 50% is shared between the listing agent and the selling agent. So understanding how they're compensated and if they're not the same person, there's a listing agent might get 50%. A $10,000 differential might mean 90 bucks in their pocket. So when the agent's there going, it's only ten grand. Can only take it, take it, take it, take it. Know that if they're selling their own property, they wouldn't.

Yeah, absolutely. Their motivation is to get it across the line.

And you don't know you're hiring these people as your expert. And I'm not saying that every single agent out there is thinking about what the bottom buck is for them, but it's just being aware of how they're paid.

And you can also then structure things for them so they get extra, extra percentages over a certain amount and all that kind of thing. Scott that I work with is master of that. He's got all sorts of incentives that.

He does to motivate the agent. And in theory, I've spoken to agents about that in the past and they've gone, well, we're working for you anyhow. You don't need to incentivise us. It's additionally. But, you know, it's nice to have a little bit of extra money, isn't it?

Yeah.

Negotiation techniques. So a lot of people have different techniques and auction strategies. I guess the thing about negotiation is it's about win, win. I went to a property experts seminar once who essentially told me how to take advantage of putting options in on little old ladies houses. Never really sat very well. She's disappeared, actually. No longer a property expert from what I can see. But, yeah, it's interesting. I mean, I'm all in for the negotiation, but leaving something in the deal. So one feels like they're walking away with.

You want to be able to sleep at night too. Taking advantage of people.

Yeah. Interesting, isn't it? So I guess we've got a couple of questions. Why don't we throw it open? Does anyone raise their hand and get straight into a question that you have on module 6 or in actual fact, any of the modules that you've been through that you want some clarity? I'm just really excited. I've been waiting for people on the Facebook page to start raving about the case studies on the cosmetic and the structural renovation. Nothing's popped up yet.

It came out over Christmas, so we kind of were out of contact with each other. I know.

I'm telling you what, get on there and tell us what you're thinking and what's happening. Because, you know, I can honestly say I think you're not going to see anything like that in anywhere else in Any other program.

Well, we know that because we've got a bunch of people that have done.

Every other one, which is good. We might have to ask them on Facebook to actually share their experiences because we're getting a lot of stuff sent directly to us about comparison of courses and what they're getting out of it. So, yeah, maybe we'd go that way. I do have a question on email that was sent to me by Roz and. Oh, yep, she's popped on and just reminded me of that. Does anyone else have a question? Rosalind, can I put you on the speaker? Would you be happy to chat to us? Okay, here she is. Ros, you can ask a question. Ros, hello. Hi, we can hear you. Hey, Rosalind.

Hi. Yeah, my question was I just actually don't really know what a butler's pantry is and I thought it was very interesting how you saved a lot of money on your kitchens by using standard sized kitchens for most of it and then just customizing that one bit, which is the butler's pantry. But I didn't know which bit that was. So I was sort of looking at your video and I was like, what's she talking about?

I might have to go back and amend that, make it a bit more clearer.

When you explained it to me, it was quite interesting because you had in a previous property customised the kitchen to allow for a certain width of the butler's pantry, which is essentially just a utilities extra room at the end of.

The kitchen where you can, you know, to start with, it's a walk in pantry. So it's just above this pantry is a walk in pantry.

Sometimes they have sinks in it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You see them these days, particularly in the high end homes and they have almost a separate kitchen. So sink and fridge, that's where the.

Toaster of the coffee is. So your kitchen's always pristine and everyone thinks that you never make a mess.

Yeah, yeah. So is that bit clear to start with? Glossin that. It's just that it's like, it's almost like a little room that's just a walk in pantry. So the butler's another name for it.

So can it be as small as kind of like a big cupboard? That floor to ceiling cupboard?

Yeah, it's a cupboard you can walk into. So I guess probably a minimum size for one would maybe be 2, 2 and a half meters long by let's say 1800 or so deep by the time you've got your 600 bench tops around it. So the idea of it is that if you were to imagine a room with four walls and you're putting your kitchen, for instance, in, let's say you've got a kitchen in an L shape, or just for the sake of this exercise, the idea is that you build your butler's pantry, which you can build to kind of any size. So, so you buy a standard sized kitchen and then the wall of the butler's pantry, you move up to the edge of that standard sized kitchen. In other words, you're not having to make a customised kitchen fit a space, you're essentially making the space fit the kitchen.

I think this kind of came out of the conversation that we had when John, you were in one of my courses years ago, and we had a conversation about going back to renovation that you'd done and seen where you could save some money and you had spent something, a large amount of money on customizing the kitchen size, which was like nine grand.

Yeah, I think the kitchen was about nine by itself. Yeah.

And that was because you had rigidly in your mind, the butler's pantry has to be 250 by 1800 or 2500 by 1800.

In fact, I didn't even have a butler's pantry in it. I was just customizing for the space, for the size of the room.

Okay.

And then I introduced the butler's pantry to one because I was going up a level, it was more higher end place. But what it then allowed me to do was not go custom, not use a cabinet maker and use a pre made kitchen.

And then he went back and looked at the property as if you didn't customize the kitchen. And it was like a six grand kitchen because you got the standard pack sizes and just made the butler's pantry like 10 centimeters shorter or something. And you could fit the custom, the standard kitchen in it.

Yeah, yeah, that's right. So the little butler's pantry is just a room. So it's just a stud wall with plaster on either side. And what you would normally do in a butler's pantry is you just have open cabinetry. And the big cost in kitchens is the doors and the end panels, because that's the bit that's either sprayed or it's vinyl or two pack or vinyl or whatever. So that's your big cost. So inside the butler's pantry, it's quite inexpensive. So they're just open cabinetry or wire shelves. Yeah, often wire shelves and open cabinetry. And they can be cut down to size really easy. So expanding and contracting the size of the butler's Pantry is really inexpensive. And that, like I say, then allows you to use a fixed sized kitchen in the kitchen area by just adjusting the space to fit it, using that butless pantry wall. Does that make sense, Rosalind?

Yeah, I think so. Was there actually one in this case study that.

Yeah, it's in the structural renovation case study and it's on the right hand side of the kitchen. It's just a sliding door into the butler's pantry.

It's a sliding door?

Yeah. If you look on the. There's actually some floor plans there of the box on the back. And if you look at the before and after, you can see where the box has been added. And the kind of size of the box is kind of encroached into by the butler's pantry. So it's not a proper square. You can actually see that there's a section there that's been cut into with the butler's pantries in it off the.

Back of the house.

Yeah.

So it's not something you'd really do for a lower end budget.

Lower end, no, there's other ways of doing it, using. I guess the golden rule is the more you can get away from using, customize anything and stand aside, standardise everything, the better. One of the guys, Derek Lack, who was one of the testers of the course, is also on the Renovator network. The way he does it is he gets his last door. So if you imagine you've got a space and you've got a standard kitchen and inevitably they're not going to be the same size, you know, that's hence the reason you normally need a custom kitchen from a cabinet maker. But let's say that his room space is 600 shorter than if he was going to use eight cupboards wide or something like that. So what he does is his eighth cupboard. He takes that back into the guys that he buys his kitchens from and he just pays for one door to be sprayed. And like I said, the cutting down of the base cupboards is quite cheap. They're really easy to cut down. It's always. The cost is always in the end panels and the doors. So he literally just buys a new door and he makes that door whatever size he has to and that becomes a little place, you know, a little funny cupboard at the end there. And that way he gets away with. Yeah, so there we are there. Yeah. So that way he gets away with using the pre made kitchens. And there's a bunch of mobs around these days that make the pre made kitchens look you Got your. We're just trying to pull up the plan here, Roslyn, and give you, give you a bit of look.

There you go.

Okay.

So you can see that we've got the box at the back. So here's the box at the back here. See my. Oh, how about I use a special mouse? So here's the box at the back here.

Yeah, Yep.

And here is the pantry. That's great.

Yep.

It's like I've done this before, isn't it?

It's great.

Be impressed, everyone. So here's that small pantry and here's the box at the back. And so it's just fitting that. And I mean I like I was in someone's house recently and they had, honestly, they had the sink there and they had the kettle and they had their toaster and you know, instead of having a clutter on the, the actual kitchen, the breakfast stuff is always set up and you know, the coffee percolator was always going, which is always good to know. But yeah, that's, that's how they were using it.

They're great. I love them.

The fact that you're. You can cut down on the number of Tupperware drawers and pantry stuff and actually have them in a great big IKEA based wire thing, you know, for a couple of weeks.

They look good too.

Yeah, I think so. And they're easy to grab things. And it's usually high end.

It's that bottom row of cabinets there that is the one that. It's a standard size. So we're going to draw a line there. So. Yeah, all the way across there. They're the ones that are a standard size. And what's happened is the wall of the butler's pantry has been moved out to fit those standard sized cabinets. And that means. And the difference overall, if I was to get that custom made, that kitchen, it's not a huge kitchen. Well, it's quite deep. It's a gully kitchen. It's quite deep. It would have cost me probably about 7,000 for the cabinetry if I was to get it custom made. It cost three, about 3100 to get the cabinetry pre made in two pack wide. Yeah. So it's a huge difference. So all up. I think that kitchen, it came in at pretty well the same price as my previous kitchen did, except it had bench tops as well.

Yeah.

So all my stone, you know, Caesar stone bench tops. So it was about 6, about 6, 1, 62 for all of my cabinetry.

How good are you in sharing this blueprint?

Yep.

I told you. I spoke to the architects down the hall and said something to them and like, oh, we'd be charging like 17 grand for something like that. Like, we just put all these poor people out of work.

Yeah. And the box in the back, it's, it's, it's. If you can find a house to make it work, it's great. It doesn't work for all houses because you might have different slopes of the land or the ceiling height might not be the same. So it won't translate exactly to every single house, but it will to a lot of houses. And it's just a really simple way of adding space. And in that house in particular, it already had six rooms under the existing roof line, so it was perfect. So all I really needed to do was just add that open plan living at the back and it was good.

Great. Well, we jumped ahead to module nine. Fantastic. We can do those kind of things here. Does anyone else have a question about, well, any of the modules so far? So we've really split, as, you know, the course after securing the property, the first six, and we're finishing off there today and we're on to then the renovating of the property. You'll be getting module 11 tomorrow. Rosalind, is there anything else that you wanted to ask or anything that was concerning you?

Oh, no, that was great. Thank you.

Perfect. Now, does anyone else have a question for us? Looks like we might have to make something up.

Pete, you can tell us about your Christmas present.

Well, let's just jump on quickly to the, I guess the Facebook page. Yeah, Check and see if there is anything there that anyone in particular has a burning desire to discuss. And if they do, we're here and happy to chat and just pull that across. So this is the Renovator network. You see my huge screen here. Not sure how that works. So, as I said, you know, Peter's gone through and actually listed quite an extensive review about her renovation there. And the numbers buying essentially at 417, valued up at 460, spending 10 grand. It was interesting. She had a valuer go in and do some costings on the options of adding this deck on that the agents were saying that was really needed. And the conversation I had with her, which essentially went down the path of, well, if it's worth 445 now and you're adding a 30 grand deck on it, then yeah, you're not going to be making a lot of money. So the deck did not go on, which is good. And some really, you know, great work. There we also.

And thanks for sharing all that. I was really interested following that as you posted. Peter, that was great. I know a lot of the others got a bunch out of it too.

I also said to her, okay, send me your valuation document so I can send it to the valuer. I'll upload that to the valuation request with cba. And she sent me the valuation document. Wow, this looks fantastic. She said, this is the one you made me do three years ago. All I did was update the pictures and information. I'm like. And that's why we have templates. And so, yeah, so some valuers find it a little intimidating. I had a client who sent me a valuation document the other day that had. The first five pages were full of demographic information. I was like, you know, to be realistic, you really don't dumb them down. They know their market and usually the valuers work within one to two suburbs.

So she didn't use our new valuation template?

Yeah, she did. Oh yeah. Well, the new version of the valuation template is a nice branded one of my old ones. It's the same one now. Kelvin's got a question, but I'll just run through the. Okay, we've got Stephen with his sales information. Tracy's been adding some really great value. I hope you guys had a chance to jump on and have a look at this road to success page. I have downloaded a couple of the products that I usually sell, so there's about 100 bucks worth of stuff there. It's free, will be there for the next week, an interview and some resources. But I've also created a bit of exercise. Go back in 10 years and see where you were 10 years ago. Go ahead and see where you will be in 10 years time based on what you're doing now and then come back and create your future how you want it to be. So look at the things that you need to do now to make that the next 10 years really be where you want to be. Tracy had some questions about a low cost way of doing a splash pad. I added in a picture there of my pressed tin. People were talking about maybe that was an easy way of doing things. I love pressed tin, especially older houses. But have you ever used it, John?

No, I've had to repair it a.

Few times, but hard to cut. But I had a lot of fun choosing it and property calendar. There was some. Nathan had a real interesting conversation about this property, this five bedroom property he's got in Canberra. So this is, this is a real top end kind of purchase and top End cosmetic renovation query. Pete shared some of the staging photos and Nicole had a chat about some custom building inspections. Said, look guys, as I said, there's so much information there and don't be scared in sharing your dot maps as well if you get a chance because as I said previously, your buying criteria is going to be different to other people's. And if you think there's some value there, then do it. Okay, let's just ask Kelvin. Kelvin, I'm going to unmute you. Can we his hands up and everything. I can see it. Look at that. I'll see if we can chat to him. Kelvin, what's the question that you have for us?

Can you hear me?

Hi, we can hear you.

Hey, Kelvin.

Yeah, that's good. How are you?

Good, thank you.

That's good. So basically it goes back to renovating instead of an investment property. Basically. I had this discussion with a friend and I was given this proposal of basically renovating your own house instead. So I've been through some due diligence process which is what Jane has mentioned just doing but doing the analysis on my own house and do the price range, the pricing disparity and things like that. Just want to throw this concept to you and see if you have any comments like, the reason that I'm heading this way is because they are saying that investment property with any price gain you get capital gain tax and with your own house, it is suitable for renovating. After the due diligence, we can avoid that capital gain tax. Does that make sense or am I missing something?

So the question essentially is if you're adding value to an investment property at some stage, you plan on selling it in the future and there'll be a capital gain that you will have to pay based on your own tax rate. And that capital gain will be essentially either 100% of the capital gain if you're selling within 12 months or 50% if you sell with after 12 months. It has different calculations if you buy in a trust, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But essentially it has different implications if you sell after you retire. And obviously your income is usually less as well. But what you are saying is if you bought a home and you lived in it and you renovated it and then you sold it, you don't actually have to pay capital gains tax. And the answer is yes, that's correct.

After a certain period of time, you're going to live it for 12 months.

There's no capital gains tax on your own home.

Full stop.

Full stop. We love that. There's been a lot of people who have. I'm not an accountant, but this is what I have seen over the years. Please verify everything I say. It could be lies, but no, there's no capital gains tax on your home and that's one way I've been a strong advocate over the last many years of writing articles and magazines. Just saying, I think the first home buyer has the opportunity of being. This generation has the opportunity of being the most, have the most opportunity to create the most wealth through real estate than any generation beforehand. And that's because we've got access to the education on how to buy strategically. They understand fundamentally that their first home is not going to be the five bedroom house the grandkids are going to be playing in 40 years down the track. Their first property is usually going to be a two bedroom unit and they're going to buy strategically using. And if you've seen in the Australian Women's Weekly, in the last seven months, I've had a video series on teaching people how to buy their home strategically and the article over the Christmas edition about bringing that all together. I just think that utilising your home as an investment is one of the most powerful things that's available to most of us. And there's 8 million people who own a home in Australia and most of them, and I would hesitate, not hesitate to say that less than 1% of those would actually look at the home and say this is an investment. Let me look at the three suburbs around where I want to live and find which one has the potential better growth. Let's have a look at the house itself and look how I can add value through renovating by doing that. I think that there's a majority of people who are missing out. So quite rightly, you do not have to be an investor to utilise this ultimate guide to renovation. And in actual fact, by using the due diligence, the dot maps and the price pin map, going through and doing the inspections and looking at the potential of a property. And even if you don't sell it, I mean the finance part of it is a little bit different because you want to maximise than if you were buying as a home to live in forever. But based on census information, RP data information, most people actually move every nine years, although they say that they're not going to. And so you're looking at a principal and interest loan. It's not until year 20 that the principal part of the loan is higher than the interest part. So you're spending the first 20 years, paying the majority of your monthly repayment in interest anyhow. So keep that principal payment in your pocket. Give yourself the flexibility of having that cash flow with an offset account. You set your finances up a bit differently. But the one thing you do need to know, and the ATO hasn't put a definitive answer on this, but if you buy and sell a house every six months, that is your own home, at some stage they will say you are in the business of buying and selling houses. So you need to be a little strategic about how you do it. And in this month's Sustained Property Investor magazine, I'm not sure many of you can have a look at my reference to it in the Toolbox on your Property Success website. But the Toolbox came out yesterday. API magazine Julia Hartman did a really interesting analysis on the six year rule. Because even if you move out of your property within six years, you can actually claim it as your home and have. And even if there is a period of renting that property out, you have the ability to claim one property as your home every six years. So you could actually stagger it and structure it, et cetera. There is some reduction of capital gains based on the amount of time it's been investment, but it's definitely Kelvin, it's definitely something that is possible to most people, most homeowners and if you currently have a property, I would really caution you to, and as I have done with a lot of the people, a lot of beta testers as well, is once you've been through this due diligence exercise to buy a new property, actually look at your current portfolio and see if they currently stack up, you'd apply this same learning to your home and you'd say, well, by the mere fact that you have a house and why don't you renovate it? If it's in the wrong place, if it's the wrong type of property for the demographic and you're going to have to over capitalise, there's no money in it. So be very conscious of the fact that just because you have a property already doesn't mean that it is right for renovation and making some money.

Okay? Yeah. The fact that excites me is currently my house is a two bedroom house and with the thing like what John has suggested adding a box at the back of the house, it works perfectly for my house. So then I can upgrade it to a three bedroom house with an open space kitchen and double car space and things like that. But I'm just going through the process of Comparing the prices in the current market condition and see how much money I have in terms of market value and how much money I need to throw in for the renovation.

That's great because you're not just doing the numbers on what it owes you, you're doing the numbers on what its current value is.

Yeah, and I was thinking that you point me out if I'm not doing correctly, but I'm thinking of holding it for another three to four years until the property hit the value that I need before I sell it, because I'm not in a rush to move as well. So I do have some time for the capital gain.

And remember, you can access that equity at any time as well. You don't have to sell to make the money. And that's the thing that most first home buyers think is. Well, not first home buyers. Home buyers believe is that they might have an $800,000 property with a $400,000 loan. And they're like, wow, I've got all this money here, but I'm going to have to sell to get it. The reality is that you can access that equity by a top up loan, obviously a separate split, and go and buy again. And that's exactly what I did with my first property. Bought it for 425, did a $50,000 renovation, had it revalued at 700, pulled out 100 grand, went and bought another 425 property, did a renovation, went and bought another one. So, you know, it's that leapfrog through equity access, you don't have to sell the property, but having it listed as your place of residence within six years, you know, you've got the ability to sell that and not have to pay capital gains tax. I can see you thinking there, John, you might sell your house.

Now, the problem is when you've got a partner. I would like to be doing this for the last kind of 10 years, but my partner won't move. So the problem is when you build someone a really nice house, they don't want to leave it.

Like me. I could have lived in my nice house for 10 years and then finally move back.

My wife says that we have to stay there for at least three years before we move.

Okay. You better listen to your wife.

I think it's great. If you're starting out and your intention is to flip, it's a great way to do it.

To start with, I'm working with a client at the moment in Tassie, and they're onto their fifth property and she's Actually agreed to be interviewed. So as soon as we have this wonderful studio set up, she's on. But they're buying at a very low price point. They're renovating and they're buying the next property and they've got unencumbered properties and they're. I'll let her share the story. But they're holding them. Holding them. But their average income is well below what anyone would expect is possible. So just extraordinary. I can't wait to share her story with you guys. Okay, Kelvin, any other questions?

Just on the concept. Another investment concept. Basically, I was told that I should be focusing on increasing the value of the house and then sell it and buy a property which is slightly larger and then renovate it and stay for three, four years and do the same thing again. So this concept encourages not to buy investment property because of the capital gain tax. I just want to get your perspective on that, because from what I can see is by not investing in investment property, basically I have that three to four years or four to five years that I have to sit just concentrating on paying on the home loan to reduce the home loan and then while waiting for the equity to build up and then sell your home and buy another home, basically upsize or buy a home with a higher value.

Yep.

Is that a good or. I know there's no real good or bad, but what is the disadvantage of that strategy?

Look, I think, you know, personally, you know how conservative I am. I think this is ultra, ultra conservative. And I would go and say that the limitation, the greatest limitation in what you're suggesting, which is buy a home, renovate it, sit in it for three to four years, hope the value goes up, sell the property, no capital gains tax, buy another one. It's such a limited way. There's no portfolio growth. You're growing your wealth. But I would. Unless you're buying, like if you're buying in an area that's 400 and you're waiting for it to go with renovation up to 800. You're selling at 800. You're then going to ask your wife to go and move into another $400,000 or 500,000 or $600,000 property, you're not actually securing the wealth for your own use until. Unless you downsize continually and then bring the property back up and the buying and selling costs are going to take out some of the benefit. To be honest, it's like people who complain about paying tax. You only pay tax if you're making money. For me, I built up an Eights property portfolio within a very short period of time and didn't have to buy again. My husband could stop working and we had the flexibility to go and spend lots of time on creating courses to help other people to do it because we had the equity and held those portfolios or held the properties and multiple properties going up in different geographic areas at different times, allowing me to access equity when I wanted to do what I wanted to do with them. What you're saying is you're buying one property, selling it four years later, buying another property. And you know what? If I was talking to someone whose whole thought was I'm never going to buy an investment property, all I'm going to do is buy a home, then I think that strategy in creating wealth for yourself and your family works because you're strategically looking where to buy. You're waiting for the market to go up, which means you're implying that you've done the research to actually pick the hotspot and you're doing a strategic renovation. Great things. And for the standard homeowner I'd say fantastic. But you're not in a standard homeowner's. Let's optimise your home course. You're in a course about building a portfolio and one strategy. I would suggest that potentially what you're talking about now would be something that go hand in hand with building a portfolio. But it wouldn't be that this is all I'm going to do because the limitation is that you've got one property going up in value and subject to the capital gain where you could have multiple Kelvin if the tax implications are such a concern to you and your property mentor or coach or friend or whomever you're talking to about these tactics is really serious about it. Then looking at buying yourself many super fund a second property and buying the fund with the view that you can't borrow to do renovations but you you can renovate if the funds were already in the fund. You need to clarify that because the ATO and self managed super funds I get alerts once a week about changes to legislation. The self managed super fund and there has been a bit of a laxing about the whole term of renovating. You can't borrow to renovate, but based on the Brisbane floods, they had people who had properties who couldn't actually fix them up because they were in self managed super funds and by virtue of the terminology they couldn't do anything. So there has been some loosening of it. But I wouldn't be actively looking at buying A property myself managed super fund to renovate, but is a way, a cost effective way, a vehicle to hold a property that potentially when you retire, won't have the capital gains implications that obviously are concerning you.

Okay, so. Yeah, okay. No, no, that's a really good information there. Thanks so much.

Okay, my pleasure.

Bye.

Another question, Peter's negotiation process for when she purchased the house. Look, you can have a chat to Peter about this in. And in actual fact, she's already. I'm not exploiting any privacy information here. She's already shared on the Facebook page that she used a buyer's agent. The buyer's agent was in the market and was looking for her and gave her a price estimate of what that property would be worth. They went in there and they negotiated. One of the things around negotiation that we often see and we picked up in the courses, people often meet halfway and. Which is just ludicrous, isn't it? It's like, you know, I want to offer you four. The guy wants 4:30. You want to pay 420 and you go, okay, I'll meet you at 425. I'll meet you at 4. 74. 27 and a half. And you're going up and they're winning.

Which is that old thing of whoever puts the first number down is the loser. Tends to be the split the difference game after that.

Absolutely. So. So the negotiation process was actually thwarted a bit with the property that Peter bought because they did come up with some drainage and building issues. So they went down a very hard path of negotiation. I think they got to 425 or something. And then they had an estimate of works to be done when the building inspection came back and it was about 10 grand. And they came down to that mark. So they reduced the property price by that mark. So. But yeah, once again, I'm all for teaching the man to fish. So I wasn't involved in the actual negotiation process. I just had the email updates going. What do you think? What do you think? Well, what do you think?

I saw that when Peter posted that you had told her three suburbs in 2009, was it in Sydney? And they've all gone up like a skyrocket. And someone asked, oh, can you tell me three now? And I thought, well, she's done better than that. She's told you how to do it yourself.

Exactly. It's funny though. I think I frustrated Pete somewhat because I very hands on helping with her first property purchase and renovation. And that was a fantastic result too, actually. She may even share that one with you. But a conversion in a unit from a two bedroom to a three bedroom unit that allowed her the equity to guide this property. And with this one, she kept going back and saying, what do you think of this analysis? What do you think of this suburb? I'm like, you tell me. So I think she felt that I was being a bit tough.

She did say you wrapped her across the knuckles.

I know. She even hid from me the fact that she went and paid for staging. Talk about becoming emotional with her property. Do you see how she felt she owed the property something. Is that the sweetest thing you've ever heard? I felt I owed it because I got 10 grand off for the fact that it had some problems. So I thought I had to fix it up. So that's good. But as you can see, the numbers don't lie. And teaching someone how to do it. I had a client come to me just this week and said, you gave me Duluth Hill three years ago and it's gone up by 300 grand and I've made money. Can you tell me the next time? And I'm like, no, I don't do that anymore. I'll tell you how to do it. My knowledge too about it is all coming down to your own personal buying criteria, et cetera.

But sorry, go ahead.

I didn't have a lot of time to do a lot of analysis. I've got to be honest with you, back in last year, Pete said, I said, we're pulling equity out. You're going to buy again. She said, where am I buying? I said, brisbane. She said, why? I said, just take my word for it. She went, okay, and isn't she happy? So, you know, I think you can look at, speak to the Economist, you can look at what's happening in the market. But guys, I don't want to sound like I'm an expert or a person with a crystal ball or a smarty pants here, but seriously, the property cycles. Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane and the others get thrown in every now and then. Sydney boomed, Melbourne followed. Where do you go to next? So you can jump ahead. And that's almost like the top end of the price pin map, isn't it? No, the dot map, which is where do you start? And you might be on regional property, regional areas. And it's around following the infrastructure and following the population. And I've had two valuations come back this week. Actually, front page of the A strain today is an article. So today being the 21st, so you can google 21st of January 2014 about first home buyers not being able to afford the market and how the first Home buyers grant. Saul Eastlake from Merrill lynch has actually said the first home buyers grant was first introduced in the 60s and has never actually done any benefit and increase in home ownership. And that's because first home buyers have dropped down to about 12% of the market of loans taken out in December 2013. And one of the interesting things that they have on the front page is a case study of a couple who couldn't afford to buy in. He's a mechanic, she's a barista in Gladstone and they had to rent. And the property market has come up $100,000 there because they're at the end of the construction phase for Curtis island lpg. Looks like there's going to be some rift within the agreement there. I had a valuation come back to South Headland this week and it's $100,000 less than what the client bought the property for two years ago. Now they're still getting 1800 bucks a week in rent. But you know, so flash in the pan mining towns, if you're in the beginning and you make your money and sell it to someone who's seeking it, then there's money to be made.

But once you read about it's probably too late.

That's too late.

I thought it was interesting the agent, what you mentioned about Peter with the decking before and you often get that situation where you get, you know, someone who's an expert in the field, like an agent or Nathan's case, he had a roofing guy tell him that, oh no, you don't want to do that. You want to do it properly and it's going to cost 12 grand and you need to do it this way. And I guess there's always a danger to default to their expertise when it's really, you're the only one that really knows how the numbers are going to work on that renovation.

And look, you know, Pete felt she had the first open homes for the rental properties in the last 10 days and she was asking 440 and thought that the market would bear 420. This is all on her Facebook page. Not sharing any secret stuff here. And the feedback from the first five groups was that there wasn't enough outdoor area or living space outdoor so it could validate the deck. However, they had two applications yesterday at one at 440, one at 460 because they wanted a six month lease. So, you know, she took the 460 and the yield's Great. It covers everything. She's ready to go again. So now we do have a question here, one that I'm concerned in answering. Ros, do you want to ask your question? I'm going to open up the line. You can hear the line unmuting now.

Roslyn, I was just wondering.

Hello?

Yes. Yep, got you.

I was just wondering, I guess, what the minimum is that somebody needs to earn to be able to realistically be able to fund building a property portfolio.

Look, it's a difficult question to answer because obviously I work in the mortgage business and see people's financials, four or five of them a day, and see what they've done and see where they want to go and try to map out a bit of a bit plan for their finance to get them to the number of properties they want. And I can be looking at someone's income of $100,000 a year and they'll tell me that they spend $3,000 a month on living expenses, which just reduces their borrowing capacity quite considerably. And I spoke to someone recently who told me that when they get bored, they buy shoes and handbags and hence why their budget was so big, decided that we'd find them a new hobby. But the other thing is I see people on $40,000 who are building, have four or five properties and are building them slowly, but buying in a lower price point. So they're buying the 200s and the 250s. And really the way that you build your portfolio comes back to your goals, comes back to your personal circumstances, your borrowing capacity, your income and the debts that you have. But I've definitely seen people on $300,000 who can't afford to have one investment property based on the lifestyle that they're living. And you'd be surprised. People expand their living expenses and their standard of living to really meet the income that they get. And one of the most surprising and things I haven't shared before, surprising things that I see repeatedly, is that regardless of someone's income, increasing their discretionary spend or their available funds to do things with rarely changes because they do increase their standard of living. And, you know, it's the keeping up with the Joneses.

The more you earn, the more you spend.

Exactly. And that was something I was very conscious from the beginning. And I used to get a bit of flack from my friends, from not going out to fancy restaurants. And I had a client's in my inner circle mentoring that I was helping out last year. And we had conversations around the fact that her friends go to lunch and they buy $300 bottles of wine, you know, on a weekend. And that was just what they used to do. And we talked about her having dinner parties and we came up with some strategies. So, you know, it is one of those really difficult questions to answer. And that's why I probably harp on the front end of this course so much, which is the goals, the budget, understanding your buying criteria, because without that you don't know what you can do. I definitely ate mince to get through renovations when I was scraping together dollars to put money into where I thought the dollars needed to be. And it is about sacrifices. And if you have a look at a couple of the blog posts I've made on your property success Facebook page in the last couple of days, you know, it's I don't pull any punches. There are sacrifices you need to make to get to where you want to be and you need to decide whether it's worth it for you.

Okay, thank you.

So don't be disheartened if you're on a lower income, but because it is how you control your finances. And be aware there's a myth and a bit of a perception out there that if you buy in regional areas or buy positively geared properties, which most people term as being regional areas, I'm writing an article for another magazine this month about for their April edition about positive versus negative gearing. But a lot of people believe they buy in regional areas and they've got a positively geared property, then it will add to their income and allow them to continue borrowing and buying. But what you have to know is that when the lenders are looking and assessing your borrowing capacity, they take only 80% usually of your rental income. So it's still not unless you've got a very heavily geared property. To the positive point, it's often not actually adding to your overall income positively, if that makes sense because the lenders are only taking 80%. Good. Excellent. Thanks. Okay, my pleasure.

What's the if you've got. I've met a couple of people lately that are using doing these holiday lets and stuff like that. So you know, short like week by week kind of thing. How do the banks view them? Do they just view them in exactly the same way as you just described? 80% of a normal if you're actually.

It'S a specialized asset. So if you're actually saying this is a holiday let and it's obvious it's a holiday let when the valuer turns up and he puts a it on your valuation. Some lenders will only lend 70% loan to valuation or if the valuer doesn't ping it and say that this is a holiday let. And some of them are quite obviously so because there's a sign out the front or they're part of a complex that is. But I had a client who was going to get 5,000 a week for one of the properties that she had and the valuer went through and said we rent this on a 12 month lease, it's worth $400 a week or something because it's in the middle of the hinterlands and it's beautiful and yes, it has the views of the ski fields and all this wonderful stuff. But the fact of the matter is if the barista down the corner is going to be renting, it's 450 bucks a week and that's what they take it as income. Some lenders, however, may apply the holiday let lower loan to value ratio and they will take the higher income, but you have to prove it over two years and the vacancies on those are quite considerable. So there's some properties I know, for instance, that I've done some work with clients who have them in around Manly.

Oh yeah.

And they're renting out those houses for like seven and a half thousand dollars a week for five weeks a year. That's it.

Right.

But it's 35 grand.

Right.

So they're making some money. But all the things associated with that and all that.

So if you're buying one of those, would they take the previous owners two years worth or is it going to be yours?

Well, it would normally have to be yours unless it went under as a business because you'd be potentially buying the business and the contacts and the database. So I've facilitated an inquiry on a loan like that. And the people I had, Travel Advisor, they had and they were on needitnow or lastminute.com and that relationship they had was actually part of the goodwill that they were buying. And hence it's a business type venture, nothing to do with negotiations. John, I expected better of you.

Sorry. Sparked my interest this week when I heard how much someone was making out of a holiday.

I know, I know. Okay, I'm going to sign off now because we haven't got any more questions. And thank you so much for all those who turned up and asked questions and got involved. Love to hear from you on the Facebook page. Also, a bit of feedback on the course. We're getting ready to open for enrollments in March for a new intake. And love to hear what works for you, what doesn't and give us some raving words of praise if you think we deserve it. Yes, please, like, like my Facebook page. Look, if you have any further questions, make sure you put them in the Facebook group. I can't overemphasize how important that is and how very many clever people are on there and who are actually professionals in the industry as well who can give you some bit of insider knowledge. Make sure you remember that module 11 is coming out tomorrow and we'll be fast rundown next week to module 12. So we'll be talking about pretty much everything that you need to ask questions for next week. It's going to be 8pm next Tuesday evening being 28th January and post Australia Day weekend. Remember you can download the video and the Audio files as MP3s to iTunes for ease of walking around the park and listening. They're so exciting so I urge you not to listen to them while you're driving. And look, has anyone taken the budget for a test drive like, seriously guys, this is the best property budget I have ever, ever seen. And just, gosh, I think you probably paid a landscape gardener 1500 bucks just for the selection of just for the plants. I mean, I don't think people really, really know the value of that budget. And every time I look at it, it just makes me tingle. Okay, so that's it. Tomorrow, midnight tonight you're going to get module 11. Please, if you share anything with us on this recording. I'm very conscious of privacy and people's information and the value of the ad. And as I said, what stays on the Facebook page, Private page goes on Facebook Private page stays on the Facebook page. We won't disclose information. If you want us to pull back and edit something out before this goes up. And look, I really appreciate we are out a little bit of whack next week we'll pick up. Well, we're up to module 7, but the reality is that if you've got questions of any of the modules, we will follow up with those and really looking forward to your contributions. If you can't make it, send us the questions. And for those of you who are listening as the recording of this, please, if you've got any questions or we didn't clarify anything, let us know and it will be up tomorrow. So that's enough from us.

It is. See ya.

Bye.