Q&A Mentor Call - February 2024

Hello, it is Jane, here for our monthly catch up. 10 years. Every month for 10 years, the Q and A call for your property Success club. I'm so excited to be here with you and I'm hoping that you can see me and hear me. Now, I know a lot of you watch this on recording and so we won't penalize you just in case you can't join us live because I know it's lunchtime, right, on a Thursday. What am I thinking with myself? Well, luckily I have a very special guest here today that is going to give up his lunch break so that we can have a chat. And without further ado, I am going to bring on Tyron Hyde from Washington Brown. Hello, Tyrone.

Hello, Jane. Always a pleasure to see you and speak to you and, you know, give you up my lunch break. That's not a hassle to. When it's someone like yourself.

Hey, so good. Okay, so for people who don't know you, Tyrone, give us the, you know, the 92nd pitch here. Let us know. Why should we be listening to you?

Okay, that's a good question. I don't know, Jane, but. So I'm. I'm a quantity surveyor. I work out what things cost to build. That's been my profession. I didn't actually wanted to be a quantity survey when I was younger. I actually wanted to be an architect, but I didn't actually get the marks to get inside. So I did two. And a developer said to me, why don't you know I was really good at maths. I was like, did like three at Mass and. But I love buildings. And I used to be that guy that you'd walk along the street, you know, the hoardings. You have a square in the. Built in the hoarding. I just sit there like that and look at the construction work. Work. And I went, well, call it Mass.

6 at this stage or like 26.

I was, I was 18 and my wife, my girlfriend at the time, who's now my wife, that's how long we've been together. Like I'm 54. That's a long time. She would drag me, get out, just stop looking at the building sites and anyway, so someone suggested, why don't you. Do you love construction? You're really good at math. Why don't you combine them? There's a thing called construction economics. So I did a degree in construction economics. I did that for two years and then I went off like all good young Aussies and I backpacked around the world. And the number one thing I learned from backpacking around the world was I never wanted to work for minimum wage again. So I came back and I finished my degree in construction economics. And at the time I wrote a thesis on property depreciation. How probably depreciates. And it wasn't really a thing then. And then in 1997, yes, that's a mold. The laws change. And it said if you don't know the construction costs, I, a quantity surveyor like me can estimate those costs for you in order to claim deductions. And I'm like, yes, I've just, I've just written a thesis on this. I know this stuff. And what I did then was I used to drive around all these building sites. So traditionally, quantity surveyors, we work out what things cost to build on behalf of the bank, right? So the bank, if you want to borrow $10 million, the bank just doesn't give you $10 million. The bank will instruct a value to work out the overall valuation of the property I put upon completion and then instruct the quantity surveyor to work out what the construction cost is as an independent estimate. So then each month we would go out to the site and certify how much work we thought was completed and pay and write a report to the bank. The bank would then pay the money to the developer, developer, the builder, etc. But what happened then? I used to do that and then on the same on the side I'll be saying to the developers, hey, there's this new law that's changed. Why don't you, I'll give you a free report and you can then try and sell the properties to your investors. And Harry Triggerboth of Meryton learned that I was doing this and he said, hey, come and why don't you do this for me? And it kind of changed the Washington Brown model. So why would you listen to me?

What I love about you, Tyrone, is that it's kind of like I love my job so much I bought the company.

That's actually what happened. So my part of the business, I went, I was 50, 50, I was like employee number one of Washington Brown. And that site expanded so much I managed to buy him out. And as I said, I guess the rest is history.

I love it, I love it. And look for those of you who are out there and are new to investing and I know we've got a group here of over 10,000 people who kind of across investing have one or many properties. For me, it's when I started selling, studying, investing, 1999, 2000. And you know These. These people would get up on the stage and they're like, there's two things that you know will make your price back of what you paid to get here. They're their secrets. And I'll be like, oh, what are their secrets? And the secret was tax variations and depreciation. And I was like, wait a second. Depreciation? How can you get money for nothing? I don't get it. And then I was like, I'm all in. If I can get money back without actually spending it. Like, hey, yeah, two things on that.

Firstly, yes, you're right. What we do is actually within the property already. You don't have to pay. It's what's called a non cash deduction. So when you buy a property, the depreciation that you can claim is already there. It's just you need someone like me to work out what it is. Right. Every other deduction you get on property, you have to physically poke out money, whether it's property management fees, strata fees, land tax, which I know you love. So there's. So there's that component. Yeah. Other component, which does bug me a little bit. Jane, that's not what you said. But this is what some people are seeing at the moment. I actually signed up for a webinar yesterday because I'm thinking these guys are a bit spruce. What they're doing is they're saying the secret to property investing, right, Is this secret loophole. It's what I do. It's not a secret. It's in there, but they're just trying to explain it as a secret. Right. And it tends to worry me that those ones that this particular company that is explaining the secrets, I won't name their names, but I'm like, I wouldn't be. I wouldn't. It's not a secret, mate. It's in the tax act.

And I think that, I mean, it's kind of like we do a bit of a spreaker awareness here. It's like, you know, if they quacks like a duck, then it's probably. And if you. If you kind of have that, you know, there's a secret no one else knows about, then, you know, I like you. I sign up to webinar and go, tell me. I'm always learning, like, love to learn it. But what is the secret that happened 20 years ago? You're like, yeah, okay, good to see you catching up. But. And I don't really care where people get the information, as long as they get the right information. And the fact that you need, you know, a person that's not like, you know, on the back of the envelope. Yeah, this is what you can deduct. And accountants can't do it, can they?

No, they don't allow by the law. And look, it's been around since 1982, so it's been around a while. It's just, I guess in what. It just worries me that when people are selling property based on the tax incentives, it's never ever a good idea. I have people ring me up, say, tyrone, we went to this site, we saw your estimated depreciation, we went to this site and this one was more than that one. This one's a better buy, isn't it? No, no, no, that doesn't work. Make sure we're going to get the capital growth first is what I'll be looking at, not the depreciation deduction. I always say it's the icing on the cake.

Yeah. You know, it's funny, I mean, you and I have been around the property market and, and property commentators for a little while, so I've got to tell you just this little secret of that. Someone asked me to be on their podcast recently. They said that they'd listened to me on podcasts and webinars growing up and I was like, like from what age? Like 14? I'm like, oh, thanks, dude. 53. Not feeling it. But you hear like, I feel sometimes like the old timers like us that go, look, seriously, it's kind of like the Warren Buffett thing. If it's exciting investing, you're probably doing it wrong. It's like capital growth is really the key to grow your wealth. And yes, you can make 50 bucks a week on, on cash flow and you can manipulate some of the things and put in the tax deductions or whatever, that makes it positive. But at the end of the day, you need the cash flow to hold a portfolio, especially in the high interest rate regime we're in at the moment. But you need growth to actually exit and live the vision of the life that you want, Right?

Absolutely. And I would say on that. So I go a bit against the grain here. And growth starts with your buying your point of entry. Right. If you can buy at the right point of entry. So people always say it's time in the market. That's true to a certain degree. But. But from my experience of dealing with the richest people in Australia in terms of property, they time the market, right. They don't sit there and go, I want to buy a bank share and get a Good solid six dividend, right? What they're doing, sitting there with cash and going, okay, that property fund just leveraged up to the hill and they're just going to go, we're just going to pounce. And because they're loaded and paying cash, they don't have to go to a board of advisors advisories, they'll just come and go. Here's 20 million buck of cash. Need to sell it now. You, the liquidators need to get paid. So I'd argue time in the market is if not as valuable as time in the market and that then will extrapolate your growth. So if you buy at the right price, your growth's going to be greater, right? I know it's hard for people to do that, but generally speaking, from my point of view or history, when I go to an auction and there's 20 people bidding, I'm out. I'm so you know why? Because you know what? Bad, bad times will follow good times just as good times follow bad times. And just sometimes the best advice I would give my daughter is to sit back and do nothing. Do nothing and wait.

The only reason I laugh is I think I see a, a Tyler Swift bracelet friendship bracelet there. You're still wearing the, the glitter from the other night.

I, I, I had my, I, look, I'm a, I'm a Swifty. I've got to tell you people, I'm a Swifty and I, her concert was the most amazing thing I've seen. I've been a big concerts all my life. And I, I was actually swifty before my daughter. I got her into folklore.

I'm loving it. I, I got my son into Eminem. I told him it was a poet.

She's a writer. She's a, she's a brilliant writer. And no matter what, if anyone is, and if anyone not a swifty and went to that concert, I guarantee you're a Swift yaka.

Yeah, exactly. Okay, so back to this. The only difference in opinion that I have with you around, timing the market is for those. And let's be honest, there's only like 11,000 of us with over 6 investment properties in Australia. So for those who are new, don't try to time the market. I remember I spoke to this lady, Ellen, broke my heart 2006 and she said $600,000 for a property in Sydney. I going to wait for the prices to come down. And you know, she had been through a significant separation. She had her one nest egg and 2015, she was still waiting. Yeah, yeah, like what Median house price 1.6 million now and it just for people who try to time the market. I always bought because I knew I wasn't across that and I wasn't hanging out with the richest people in the world like you were country girl from Dubbo. I, I was like if I've got the money I can buy the best possible price property I can at the moment. So the only kind of hedging of that is like growth is the key timing the market would be great if you've got that knowledge.

I look I agree with you to a certain degree. The only thing you've got to be wary of a lot of people from where I sit and see and I've actually seen in contracts where people use the time in the market to justify their $50,000 clip they're getting. Right. And I'll say you have to hold this property for 10 years. So yes, if you're doing, getting independent advice buying a 10 year old property. Look, I've made money on you probably don't get me wrong it's. But buying new probably can also can be great. There's some great developers out there. Right. But there's also when you buy it through certain companies you've got to be careful and they will, they will play on the time in the market to make sure the Property gets that 10 year point where it's actually worth what you pay for it.

Yeah. And it's interesting, I spoke to two very successful business women recently on a, on a trip we were on together and they were both saying how well their property had done and they had bought through a property investment advisor and how they'd made money and they'd recently sold. And on further conversation they had independently of each other, they had both bought in some type of house and land package in Queensland that went down in value for five years and has finally after eight to ten years has made $50,000. Now in that same ten year period, one of my properties went up a million dollars.

Yep.

You know, so I look at that and I just think they can tell. You can tell yourself time in the market hides all wounds.

Yeah, exactly. And you know, funny because we do, you know, we've done 250,000 reports, reports for investors over the years. Right. That's a lot of numbers. That's a lot of time to deal with, isn't it? Right. And that's not a made up stat. But what I see constantly because we look at when you plumber buys a property we have to look at the, the original sale Price we try and work out, that's part of the terminal trying to work out the original construction cost. And the amount of times I see that, that 10 years someone's bought the same price, what happened 10 years ago. And then unfortunately, it's at about that 10p point where it's like a boom, right? And it's like. So there's a strategy for people that if you follow certain people that are unscrupulous in the, in this world, see where they bought 10 years ago, go to that area now, because what happens when they're buying intel sites, you. It's, it's. They buy, you know, developers buy a big block of land. Next block of land comes along, the shiny one's not too shiny anymore, but after a certain while, well, that's bright, brand new, shiny one that was built 10 years ago. That's where the market is now. It's kind of come into, into its own. So if you can find out where the, where the Spruce would buy 10 years ago, you probably get a higher rate of growth.

It's interesting. I've got a whole new podcast, Exitthematrix IO, talking about people's stories of success. And I interviewed this young man, which makes me feel so old. He's 33, financially secure, left school at 16, you know, took a trade. The, the builder decided to close up shop on his 21st birthday. And he went, well, I don't know any other builders, so I'll probably just take on your job. And now he bought properties that I would look at and go, not in a million years. And so he was buying properties in, let's call them golf enclaves. You know, yeah, the kind of gated around a golf course.

But.

And I'm going to, like, fudge the numbers here just to give some perspective. Go and listen to the podcast if you want to get the details from Hayden. But essentially, people were buying them for $400,000 and they were renting them out, and the value of them dropped to like 350, 300. And he went in and bought a lot of them between 250 and 300. They were still renting it, like 500 bucks a week. Yep, he took the opportunity. So there's a lot of people who were the fart first into this great deal. And, you know, arguably the people could possibly have saved them, you know, kept it for 10 years and said, Pat on the back, I made 100 grand. But the reality was he, he swooped in and did exactly what you're saying. He took that opportunity and he's got this cash flow rich business portfolio and now they've gone up in value.

You know, if you, if you as an investor like that, if you just have a set strategy, I'll only ever buy something with a 7% yield, right. And then my management fees. Because sometimes with those, those type of investments, you've really got to look at the fees and costs associated with owning them. Right. But if his net yield was 5%, it's going to be a pretty good investment long term. You just stick to that strategy. You, you know, at some point they will come back up into value. So yeah, he probably bought them about 10 years old. They probably needed a re, a rebrand, a repaint.

Three years old.

Oh, three years old. They went down that much. Well, there you go. That's surprising.

That's even worse. And you know, the thing is, is that it got to the stage where the real estate agent who sold just that enclave would come to her and go, got another one.

Yep, want.

It didn't even go to the market. And it's like, you know, no one wants these. So, okay, let's throw things up in the air. Let's talk tax. Let's talk negative gearing changes. Let's talk changes. Tell me your good stuff, Ty.

What would you like to know?

Okay, negative gearing, what's going on?

Well, it's a topic close to my heart. Firstly, let's explain what negative gearing is to everyone. Right. So negative gearing is when you run a property at a loss and you can claim the loss against your taxable income. Right. But there are people out there that are positively geared. There's two sides of this equation. And I would say that most people that go to negative gear of property actually want to get ahead in life because. And at the back end they want to, you know, not be a self, they want to be a self refunded retiree, which no one's talking about. Now all this, all I'm seeing with papers is these greedy negative gears. And don't get me wrong, let me start with, I have a business that helps people negative. That helps people negative gear. I'm part of the negative gearing equation, right? Because what I do is I create tax deductions for property investors. However, let me also say I actually think it could be improved. I think the concept that went over the law was written. I don't think that it was the ideal that were 100, that people would have 100 investment properties get up there negative again, say, hey, look at me, I've got 100 properties. Let me be a buyer's agent, right? So I think it can be tinkered with and I think the easiest solution would be to limit it to three to five properties or another option that I'm going to give you sooner or later. So at the moment the grades are saying that they want to limit to one property, right? One even. Which it's again, what is their mathematical equation on the back end. It's like that when cigarettes were involved, right? Oh yes, let's get the tax from the cigarette companies. Oh, we never thought about the health benefits later, did we? Right. Or the hot, the, the, the, the, the costs on hospitals later. So I think that, I think that people that negative gear want to get ahead in life. They want to not be, you know, self respondent, she. So they want to be self funded retirees. Now as I said, I do think it can be bettered by saying three to five, which I'll probably do. What the other option is at the moment is to halve the capital gains discount, taking it from 50% to 25%. The problem I see with that is that no one understands the capital gains implications of a property, right? And what that will also lead to is people just hold the property. So going to, it's going to be worse for the property market, right. So I'll just go, well, I've got a negative gear probably I'm just gonna hold it. You don't want to know what I would do, Jane, tell me. Okay, So I know when people look at this big 20 billion dollar, the negative gear, the greedy negative gears are claiming $20 billion in deductions. I don't think anyone would have a problem with the property management fees are deductible. I don't think anyone would have a problem that strata fees are deductible accounting fees. Part of that 20 billion dollar greedy negative gearing claim is land tax. The land tax that you pay, that you pay, I pay is part of the negative gearing equation. Now I think those things should be siloed, right? I think what people have an issue with is the difference between what you get in rent and what you pay in your interest bill, right? And I think where you run a loss there that should be quarantined to that property until you sell it. Because at some point that might become positively geared and they might offset them. So rather than you every year offsetting that against your income, it should be quarantined to that property, right? Because well, firstly, it'll make it simpler. The Equation will make it simpler. But the problem is saying you can only do it one or two or three properties is that you've got, you could have it in different funds, you could have it in your self made super fund, you could have it in your trust fund, you can have it in a company name. So, so which properties are you negatively gearing? How are you going to offset that? If you quarantine it to the one property, it would make it not deductible in that year for the investor. So it wouldn't be sucking into the tax coffers at that time. Until you sell the property is when you work it out. That would be my solution.

You know it's interesting what strikes me here when you said that quarantining. The only place I've really seen something similar where you identify something with a property is in the US where they, you kind of sell the property with the mortgage and it's, I guess it's an interesting thing, isn't it? It's like if you sold the property with the mortgage and with that deductibility.

I'm saying you don't sell the.

It's calculated, I'm taking it to a next step.

Right, right, right, yep. Well that's funny you say that in the US I didn't know this until recently but you know this obviously being a broker in your past life, I.

Tell a lot of people about it.

You know when you're a, when you get a 30 year mortgage over there, it's literally a 30 year mortgage, fixed interest rate. Right. Whereas you get a 30 year mortgage here, it's only like five years. Why did we not all run over to America when it was 2% via a condo in New York? Jane.

So here's the other interesting thing we look at, a lot of the world looks at Australia and they say overpriced properties and you know, the most expensive properties were blah blah, blah, blah blah. And, and it really brings into mind that, you know, as we know in Australia, not all markets are the same internationally, not all markets are the same. If you are buying a property in the US that has a 30 year fixed mortgage at 2%, right. No brainer, really cheap, never going to change. So no matter what the Reserve bank does over there in raising interest rates etc. To try to pull money out to reduce inflation, it's not affecting the mortgages. Whereas you do that here in Australia year and you're putting, the RBA is putting up like interest rates 13 times in 18 months and they put it up, they're pulling money out, they're making us feel, you know, a little bit of pain, let's be honest. Because our interest rates go from like for me I went from a fixed 3.3 coming off to a variable 9.39. That's what happens when you have a low dock line of credit that's 15 years old. But you know, mortgage brokers don't do their own mortgages. Plumbers never know their own brains. Let's not talk about it. But you know, the, the fact of the matter is, you know that hurts, right? So it makes me stop paying things in other places. So it pulls my money out and then they look at the whole interest rates and they go, Australians, inflation's this, American's inflation's that. Australia's interest rates this, American's inflation's that, oh my gosh, you know, catastrophe. The reality is it's not even the same story.

I guess one of the issues that I've read finger view is that people, because they've gotten these 2% interest rates over there, right, they're not moving, not selling. So it's not helping supply at all. Why would you if you had it? Because the moment you sell that property, you can't transfer that 30 year fixed rate to another property, right? So if I had, If I borrowed 2 million bucks and we all should have, if we could have over the years, I didn't even know that I would have been looking into that. I promise you, if I knew it was a 30 year at that time, that it was fixed for 30, 30 years, 2%.

Hey, we should speak more often.

The other thing of if I was looking back on my life and thinking some of the investment things I should have done was the moment that the US dollar ever, whenever you get more than $1, US$1 for one Aussie dollar, buy US dollars, I went up to 110, I'd be going or, or conversely to play, to play the, the, the currency exchange game. If you're getting a $10 for the US dollar for one Aussie dollar, go buy an apartment.

Okay, we are not giving financial advice here. Just a heads up. Interesting you should say, okay, I don't fully understand what's happening in the papers with negative gearing and politicians and stuff. But just let me try to explain how I'm trying to work it out at the moment and see where the motivation's coming from. So the biggest industry, super funds for basically unions, right? They're run by the unions. Yep, the unions run the super funds and they charge people who put their super in there, which they tell you you have to do if you're a builder, carpenter, what, whatever, hospitality person, they charge them a fee and that fee becomes a profit that the Super Fund then funds the Labor Party for their campaigns. And the Super Fund's current public declaration is we actually want to buy a huge amount of residential property because we want to put that into our fund because we see that as a fundamental bricks and mortar good investment. And there's 500,000 people coming to Australia and people aren't selling their properties because of all these other things, et cetera. We need to create some properties, we want to buy some. So they want to buy properties. Would it then am I making a leap in thinking that if the Labor Party does then put in negative gearing changes that make it so unpalatable for investors to keep their properties and they sell them, the industry Super Fund is actually benefiting from this and the unions are actually just dictating the narrative of what's happening in the property market now.

You'Re just being cynical, Jane.

Trying to put their things together. I'm like, why would someone say that? And then I'm just like, it's, I'm not a conspiracist. I'm just like, I just try to put things together.

Can I tell you something really funny about this whole debate? The, the interesting thing is what they're trying to achieve is to limit the negative, negative gearing losses against your taxable income. Right? And they also want to encourage some way to encourage new supply because obviously there's a major issue going on with supply at the moment. Right. So the two things they're trying to do, what is the most bizarre thing that in 2017 the Turbo government did exactly this, what I just said. And they, no one said anything about. They didn't understand what they did. But what they did in 2017, Jane, was they said you can no longer claim depreciation on second hand properties, but we won't change it for new property. So now there is such a disparity, disparage, if that's the word, between buying a brand new property and the reduction in your claim of depreciation deductions on secondhand property, which is your negative gearing loss. To put it in perspective, when they've made these changes, it was about a 7,000 to $8,000 per year per non per deduction that you can no longer claim on a secondhand property for about five years. So it is exactly what they wanted to achieve. Why on Earth, the government at the time didn't say we've just squashed negative gearing. We're going to make it more, more inducing. To buy new property was crazy. They did exactly what they wanted to do, but no one understood it. No one ever said they did it.

Tell me you got 250,000 reports there. How many of those. I mean I know a lot of the commercial, etc. But if you look at the resi, you know mums and dads who are buying properties like we do, how many of those are affected by that new versus old kind of change?

So heaps.

So would you have a percentage split kind of indication?

Only 7% of property investors buy new property.

How many?

7. 7, 7. So it's 93% that don't.

So 93 got gutted.

Not that there's still, there's still benefit there, but it's certainly major reductions. That's what I'm saying, that they did actually reduce the deduction production the claims substantially the negative gearing claims. So it's just they didn't see it from the rafters because they didn't understand. So it's like you've done it guys. Anyway.

Okay, Negative gearing. Okay. What I would really love to understand as well is you mentioned to me just before we came on there was some tax changes. Is that the first one? Is there others that are you seeing affecting the market?

No, that's the major tax change that I just actually did a video released it on then showing what the implications are of buying a brand new property versus a one day old property. Right. So it's not just the government made a really harsh decision in my point of view. They actually invited me in to talk about to them because, you know, I know a little bit about this stuff. And what they did was they said that there's been overclaiming in depreciation deductions on secondhand property. And they were right to a certain degree. But what they did, they came in with a sledgehammer. Now when you buy brand new property, you can still claim all the depreciation on the ovens, dishwashers and the bricks and concrete and all that stuff. Right. So we separate that in a report. We say here's your oven cost, here's your blinds, here's your. But we also then say here's your concrete brickwork and you claim the concrete and brickwork at a flat rate of 2 1/2 percent. The ovens and dishwashers you claim over 10 years or carpet over 10 years, Etc. Right. And that's with a brand new. You get to claim all that. But the moment I bought a brand new property, Jane and I sold it to you one day later, after settlement, you can no longer claim any of the ovens, any of the dishwashers at all, even though they're one day old. Even though the government says or the tax office says that oven's going to last for 10 years or eight years, you can't claim if it's one day old. Now, which is a bit harsh. But the stupid thing is if I buy a commercial property that's 50 years old, I can still claim an oven that's in the commercial property that's in the kitchen if it's 50 years old. They only do this for residential, which is quite bizarre in itself. So I think they were too harsh. This doesn't happen in any other type of business. If you've got a business and you're running a business, if you run a business, if you buy a secondhand computer from off ebay and you pay 100 bucks for it to bucks for it, that's where you start your depreciation benefit. Right? Not the, not the. So but when I buy a secondhand property, even though that oven is one day, no one's even used it. Here's another funny thing.

Wait, so can I just clarify this? If I buy a new property and then sell it the next day, it's considered second hand and then I can't claim it. If I buy a new property, I can still claim it.

Yeah. Yes.

If it's sold the next day, I can't.

Yes, but, but if you've got an old, say you bought an older property and you buy a brand new oven and put that in into an older property, you can claim it for the moment that that oven is what's called previously used, which is one day old, you can no longer claim it. Here's a stupid thing. Now let's say I bought a property off the plan and I've got lots of stupid things on this topic because it's a silly law. Right?

Let's call this a stupid thing masterclass.

I did a webinar on this, like seven crazy facts you didn't know about this new law. But here's a stupid thing. Now let's say I buy a property off the plan and I sell it to you. Right? Still off the plan. It hasn't settled yet. So we have a dual settlement. Right. I settle it, I give you in essence. But you're the second owner. I've never Even been into that property, no one's ever opened the door. It's still considered secondhand. Even though that oven has never been opened because you didn't pay GST on the sale. So that's how they determined.

Didn't even get built by then.

Probably didn't even. No one ever opened the door. It's still considered secondhand.

Crazy. Crazy. Tell me another crazy thing.

Okay, here's one. So let's say I love. That's good. Okay, another one. Now because you, as I said before, they didn't change it for commercial, only for residential. Let's say you're on the high street Prawn Bondi and you've got those two stories, got a retail shop down the bottom and you've got a residential at the top. The property secondhand. You've got the carpet though. You might have the timber flooring that goes on the bottom of the retail, but the same type of floor goes up to the residential. You have to separate the timber floor, same flooring on the bottom because you can claim it on the top. You can't. Air conditioning that goes through the whole building, you can claim on the bottom, but you can't claim it on the top. The same air conditioning.

I feel like I'm in like a John Cleese clip. It's like, you know, the silly walk. Let's see what the government's done on the silly walk with the latest tax changes.

That's what they did. Can't change it. I did, I did write to them and they, we had to put a submission in and they, they invited me into, you know, for industry consultation. And I said, well, look, I understand what you're saying. Here's what you could do. And there's a simple solution. All I had to do was say, okay, when the property is 10 years old. So we go out to a property, we say it's 10 years old. The oven might have had a 10 year effective life. When it gets to 10 years old, the property, we can just no longer claim it anymore. If it's 10 years old, just stop it there. We used to revalue the items all the time, right? But it's just like, okay, well it's the original carpet. Got an effective life of 8 years. These days the property is 8 years old. Guess what? You can't claim it anymore.

Washington Brown depreciation schedules. You're obviously quantum surveyors. I'm going to drop a link here. I've got a special little discount code. If you do not have a depreciation schedule. You are leaving money on the table and I have to say I've got so many of them with Washington Brown and it's just a no brainer. And I love it every year when my accountant goes, well, and here's your depreciation, it's been less since 2017. But you know, just, just, you know, as a strategic way of running your property investment as a business, this is just a no brainer. So there's, there's no, you know, run to the back of the room. There's no steak knives. In actual fact, there is steak knives. Tyra, I believe that if you can't claim back the cost of a depreciation.

It'S free. No double, no double. So if it's brand new, we say you'll get 10 times our fee. If it's, if it's, if it's secondhand, you, we, we say we'll get you at least twice our fee in the first year or it's free. So it's a bit of a no brainer, we'll tell you guarantee.

Like if they can't get you their feedback, you don't pay.

I know. I wish my stockbroker said that to me.

I don't want to have a stockbroker now. I'm going to move on. So you and I had a conversation last year and you said, jane, I want to talk to you about being on my podcast. I was like, yeah, tell me all about it. You said, my teenage daughter, same age as my teenage son, is not really listening to me with property and money and finance advice. I'm just dumb dad. And I'm like, I'm dumb mum. And to the extent that my son has a business he's had since 14 and every now and then I try to get in with some marketing ideas and he goes, what would you know? I'm like, people pay me for this. I'm a business coaching, mentoring clients. Anyhow, what would I like? Dude, I don't want to toot my own drum, toot my own horn, but you know, toot, toot. Anyhow, back to the story. And he said, look, you know, maybe in five years time she's going to come around and she's going to want some advice. I'm going to get the top 10 people that, that I would like to give her advice to come onto a podcast and give the advice. Now everyone 10 with Ty, just look up the podcast, go to it. If you don't get the gems or if you have a teenager you want to send Some gems to. Or you've got someone who's not really listening to the story. And sometimes if you're an investor in solitude, you'd kind of have to get your partner on board. Go to the podcast, it's a gem. But here's the thing I want to talk about kind of the big observations. But you mentioned before that you know, you've known Harry from Meryton for. Did you go to his 90th birthday party or something?

Yeah, I've been to every birthday party since a long time.

So like. And this guy's still in the business. So you recently, you know, pulled out some jewels of your learning with Harry. I would love for you to share that.

Sure, absolutely. So I guess a bit of background. Let's talk about if you don't know who Harry Triglop is. He's. He's been constantly the richest person AFR in Australia. Last count he was worth 26 billion, $26.4 billion. He owns a company called Meriton. They've, you know, they've built half of Sydney and, and Brisbane, Gold Coast. So if you. Melbourne, he's only got one tower there. He's been a client 27 years. Incredibly loyal man. But to put $26 billion in perspective, Jane, if you added sun, if you got Suncorp bank listed valuation and A and P Bank together, you merged the companies and then times it by two, you still haven't reached his personal worth. Put that in perspective. The Guardian did an article recently where last four years he earned 1.5 million per hour. Right. Now he invites me to lunch every year and for the next two weeks after he invites me to lunch, the two hour lunch. I'm nervous he's going to send me a bill for these time. Anyway, it has been a fascinating ride with him.

He's probably worth the two and a half million though, right?

Well, he's been a fascinating. But I have learned a couple of things from. Do you want me to tell you what some of the things I've learned from him?

Yeah.

All right. First thing, he's a story, Richard. The richest, the richer people that I've met that be like Lane Walker passed away recently, Harry true off. You know, they're, they're the, the creme of the crops. They're just storytellers every time I meet them. So I, every time I've had so many meetings with Harry, he always starts with a story about his life, his personal life and how he started Meriton or when he came from China. You know, he's Originally a milkman. Now you mentioned before that that guy you had on the program who was a developer and he started with a building that he took over the building. Exact same thing happened with Harry. He was building his house, the builder went. He wasn't having the builder. He took it over and then he started into development. And the second street that he ever developed was in a street called Meryton street in Gladesville. That's where the Meriton name came from. But he always told these stories. Let me tell you. When he tells a story, you can hear a pin drop. It's just like, there's always like hanger orange, you know, but it's just like, yes, Harry, tell me a story. So, storytelling. So if you want to be a successful developer, learn your stories. I don't know what came first, the actual long history or just being a good storyteller, but you've got to have good stories. The next thing is, I read a book recently, Jane, called the Atomic Habits. Have you read it? I couldn't put it down. And I was reading it, I just had a glass of oil and I was like, you know that we talk about habits, right? Atomic habits. You know, when you people talk about the 1 percenter, when they got the, the, the, the guy that did the British cycling coach, I'm reading, they'll go, my God, Harry's the 1%.

So tell us, tell us the story.

I will tell you a story. So what happened was I was at, at the top of World Tower. Not many people know this, but the top of World Tower, he kept the third, as you do for himself, the service departments, right? But at the top, top of World Tower is this penthouse, right? And it wraps around, it's got like 12 foot, floor to ceiling height, glass windows all around. And guess what? Not one bedroom, right? It is purely kitchen and bathrooms, right? And he has it purely for entertaining. So he writes me up there for lunch. I'm standing there, I'm standing next to me. It's quite short. Harry, how you going? And all you see are Meriton apartment buildings everywhere. Like all you see because he puts a crown, the king on them, right? And you're standing going, my God. All I see is. I said, harry, what you should do is put a cross with some tape on the floor here. So whoever stands here and then to put some tapes, have some tape on the, on the windows inside and just all your building over there, he looked at. Good idea. Don't know whether he did it. Anyway, we sit down for lunch and I said, to him, harry, I've got something to tell you. And I'd just written a book, but it hadn't been published yet. And it's called Claim it. And I've got this print out. I've actually got the photo of it and it's like a printed out copy. And I said, harry, what you should. I got to tell you something. I said, harry, I've written a book and there's a chapter in it about you. It's called High Rise Harry. He looks at me go, I said, I think you should read it before it goes to press. So he gets it. 10 minutes of silence at the table because there's accounts there, financial advisors have complete science. He looks up at me and goes, very good, very good. That's how he speaks, right? And I said, harry, could you write something for me on it? You know about it? Like something in the back. It's at the back of the book. And he writes something like, the moment I met Torrent, I used him. I've never used anyone else. That's pretty good. Anyway, when the book's published, I sent him a copy, the first copy off the press. I sent him a copy. A week later, I get a call from his EA and she says, harry loved your book. He wants six copies. Why do you want more six? He goes, he wants his executive team to read, to understand what you do. Well, that's good. And I'm like, you didn't pay for them, by the way, Jane. Anyway. Anyway, I sent him the six copies. And then this is the 1% thing, right? Which is a story arc. The 1%. After that, the next week, every week for 52 weeks. He made me come in. I called it. He. I got summons by Harry, five minutes, you'd say, tell me something new. But now for 52 weeks into the. I'm running out of tricks, Jane. By the 52nd week, and I'm like, wow. So if he does that for every part of his business, right? Imagine what he's like. He's with thirst of knowledge. Because Harry, you know, we wrote it on a napkin, J. Because he doesn't use a computer. He's never used a computer in his life, right? As far as I know, I've never seen him use a computer. So he gets everyone in and just says, tell me something new, tell me something new. Now if he's doing that 1 percenter, it compounds. That's the whole story of the atomic habits, isn't it? You know, the compounding thirst of knowledge that you get.

One percenter after a year adds up to 37 times difference, right?

And now doing that, since he's not, he's now 90, he's still running, still goes office every day, still goes aside every morning. The fun fact, keep going, give me more fun facts. Okay, fun fact.

I'm loving the fun facts.

I've got a few systems, right, his systems. Like now if you're Bill, you've built, you've renovated properties, you know how hard it can be as you know, 5,000 a year at the age of 19, right? He's building 5,000. He bought a site the other day that he sent us that's still going to go for 10 years. He's 90 that he's bought a site that's going. That is the definition of optimism. Anyway, if you're going to build 5,000 apartments a year, you've got to have good systems. And last year there was a thing called temporary full expensing, where as a developer or as a pro. Yeah, as a, as a, as someone building something, you could claim the deduction as an immediate outright if it wasn't finished. So say if you're building a hotel and the lift is halfway completed, you could, instead of depreciating it when it's completed, you could say, well it's 50 complete. I can claim whatever I've spent on that lift today. What it happened over Covid, but it ended last year. But we had to go around. He instructed us to go around every site and work out what percentage of job of the job is complete. So I can claim all the plant equipment as the outright deduction. And that's a little bit complicated. But let me give, let me simplify. If I went to, if I was building five apartments and on 30 June last year, three ovens were installed in that apartment in that development. I could claim those, those ovens as an outright deduction rather than saying I have to claim it over 10 year period. Right? Now you try and do that over.

Five in your pocket, basically.

That's right. Immediate deduction rather than over a period of time. Now imagine trying to work that out. Over 5,000 apartments on one day. Because that would be as the 30th of June. That was my challenge. The challenge got made easier because of Harry Systems. So we had a team going around and I went to Canberra, we had had to go to Melbourne, blah, blah, blah. And I gave the foreman, okay, how many of these? And some of the developments have 10 different blocks. Some are finished, some are, you know, partly completed, some Are just starting because they've made huge stage development. I say to the foreman, okay, how many ovens are in Block 3, Block C, Stage 1, 52. How many in this block I completed? Blah, blah, knew everything. Okay, how do you know everything? We have to tell Harry every week exactly how many things are done and have to factor to him not computerized because the neighbor then take that information. So every day he knows how many ovens have exact same process of all his development sites. Right. And he walks around with these things called the hot sheets, which are Harry Oscar trigoff sheets. And he can show you everything on every side of every completion. I've never seen it before. And he's just.

How many sites would he have? Sorry, how many sites? There's 5,000, I guess at least one.

Site'S got like three and a thousand building now. It's huge. It's massive, like shopping centers and you know, it's massive. And then like that's a lot of.

Knowledge to hold, right?

He's doing that for how long? Like he's built like over a hundred thousand apartments.

But. And he knows what's happening in his business.

And also just not the construction side, the sales side as well. He knows exactly. And also because now he's the biggest hotel operator in the country, so he knows he'd know the exact occupancy rate every day. I can tell you now when you.

Say he's the biggest hotel operator, I know there was kind of especially Covid, you know, market went down. There was all this kind of build to rent rather than build to sell it. Was that a model that he took up and is still doing. Is that what he said?

No more. So it's apartment. So what happened was when he couldn't sell a certain block, he'd go, oh, I'll just keep it. I'll turn it into a hotel. And that just kept going. So it came out of when it was about a time. Let me, you know, I'll tell you one, I've got a few others, but I'll just, I, I, I want to tell you, I'll end with this one. He said to me once at lunch, he said, don't stop, don't stop going. Yeah, I'll go, all right, I'll get, I'll give you two more. I'll give you two more. I'll give you two more. Okay. Cash is king. You know, you've all heard that saying, right? And I since I touched on this before. But when you see it in real life, like he can do. It's just like, oh my God. I can tell you one time he bought a site for say 20 million bucks. And this is this public knowledge. I'm not talking anything out of, out of things. You can see this, you can go and up and down and like this is like 15 years ago. But he bought a site for 20 million bucks. So a number. He sold the site this big, right. He sold that little corner there the next day for 20 million bucks. He got the whole site right. For nothing. Two and a half thousand apartments on it. Go. Two and a half thousand apartment site for nothing. And that's public knowledge. But the final thing I'll tell you is this is what I think is one of the best quotes.

Let's just pull out the story behind Cash is King. It's that when you, when you have the ability to assess and make decisions, you can make the decisions, the no brainer decisions without having that limitation of, you know, all the things that you put down.

Yeah, yep. Boards and trust and all that kind of stuff you have to deal with. But he also knows the planning laws. He knows, he's going to check like when he buys a site he can get the governments to change where the infrastructure might go. Is that big enough? Right. Pretty different league to you or I will ever be in, you know, but let me finish this little part of this education with something that I think is the best quote that he ever told me. And I think it's something someone asked me the other day on a podcast. What would be that? Someone asked me because you know my podcast, I say if you could go back and see your 20 year old self, what would you tell yourself? Well, I got asked that question the other day. I said, you know what? I'd probably say what I learned from the best. And I'd say this is something that resonates with me. And he said to me once, I'm going to say it in his voice because Harry, when he talks, he ends his sentences with a little bit of an intonation. Right up he goes to, he said, do you want to know the secret to my success? I'm like, I'm not going to say no. Am I right? Of course I'm not washing my hair.

Keep it back for me. I don't need to know that.

The richest man in the world, Australia. When times are bad, I buy land. By the time I get development approval, times are good again. Right? Think about it. It's like just don't think about the noise. Stick to your game plan in your Lane people, times will be bad and it's going to take three or four years. Guess what, the papers have changed, the media has changed, you've got approval, you can build again. So simple. Why didn't I think of that?

Jane, you know what's really interesting there? I speak to so many people about kind of, you know, what's holding them back in investing or business opportunities or relationship, whatever it is. And I have these conversations and when it comes to property, I've created this kind of awareness around the money stories going on in your head. And I get people to go back to, you know, their early lives and experience in watching their parents deal with money etc. And the people who are the most fearful about buying property, they will say dad lost it all and it put my family in trouble. Or you know, he went and bought something and he lost some money and they are 20, 30, 40 years later still in that moment. And then we hear someone like Harry go, yeah, it's bad times, something's really bad. There's a lot of people going through bad times. He's taking an opportunity there and seeing the long term plan. But see so many people, they get caught in the stories that have become, you know, part of their kind of ancestry and folklore and they never move on. And it sounds to me he's just so agile in everything that he does.

Well, funny you say that because I, that's the reason why I started 10 with Ty because I saw my father lose all his money and it certainly affected me but I guess it kind of had a bit of a reverse effect in that I wanted to know because when he was still alive he was, he was a cripple. My father taught like most of my life. I remember him being, you know, he had a stroke and he was paralyzed on the left hand side. And you know, seeing him, you know, trying to tie up his laces, which is one hand's really hard or putting, you know, putting your belt on with one hand, it's really hard. But seeing him lose all his money was, you know, I think that killed him. Not, not the stroke. I'm convinced the stress of that killed him. I remember getting burns Phil took over the, the trust funds. It wasn't his. Look, he didn't make a bad decision. Like there's a company called Estate Mortgage back in the late 80s that when interest rates went up to 70 he just thought he was putting into a bank. And they advertised themselves as safest houses. Right. But what they're really doing was putting into second part third, you know Mortgage securities into development sites and when rates went up to 18 or 70 or fell down like a payoff of cars. And he lost all his super after working all his life and seeing him do that. But he, you know, killed him. He got in the up getting like 10, 10 cents in the dollar but he lost pretty much everything. And it was pretty sad and obviously and I reckon that killed him. So I kind of got motivated. I remember towards the end before he died, he saw that I was becoming a little bit successful in. In probably at that point and I was pretty proud and you know, maybe look tear up. I actually told this story on stage once and I started bloody crying. So I don't want to do that today. But probably be that's why I've been trying to educate people about probably for a lot of my life is that seeing him lose all his money.

Yeah. And I mean just to that point, I think that motivation of our why and what we do things, you know, it's not a secret. I interviewed on my your property success podcast years ago, Louis Christopher from SQM Research. Same deal, you know. Yeah. And I was like, I don't want this to happen to other people. And you know, I think there's. There's a lot of people within the. The property expert space who have seen, you know, their family members go through. Through something and they phoenix out of it and go, well, I'm not just going to make that not my narrative. I'm only going to make this something so that other people can aspire and not be held back. So there really is this like duality, isn't there? Those that are hold back by their stories. Actually it reminds me of a story, remember, which is these two brothers are sitting on a park bench and one is like homeless and he's smelly and his clothes are dirty and his hair's greasy and the other one's sitting there in this beautiful suit. And they say to one of these guys, how did you get here? And he said my father was an alcoholic. And they said to the other one, how did you get here? And he said my father was an alcoholic. Okay, let me talk about 10 with Ty. Okay. You have chosen. How did festival. How did you choose your 10?

You know, that's so background that. So I asked the. The esteemed guests like Jana. Let me first say I have been so overwhelmed with the quality of guests that I had. And it has a pretty. I've only done six. I've actually filmed about 10. We're a bit of a slow burn. My Wife and I, the production team but I've only released six and, and Jane was the first. Jane was the guinea pig and it was bloody awesome. My wife still thinks it's the best one, you know, she's got so many nuggets. And one of the key takeaways I'll take from Jane, success leaves clues. And I think that was a fantastic saying. So how do I choose a 10? You know, actually funnily enough. Okay, two reasons. One I just some of the questions I always thought like it's been like a 15 year bird like asking these questions. What would I ask myself if I could, you know, want to get something out of my own thing. But the other one was I was going through my garage and I pretty much asked harry triggerbot about 20 years ago these some of the same questions, right. And for a newsletter I found it, I had, I looked a lot younger, let me tell you and I found, I went God, that was an interesting interview, maybe I should do that again. So half of the questions are what I asked him. And when I asked him, funnily enough I said to him, Harry, you know, because one of the questions if you had, if you could go back and sorry, if you had $20,000, how would you invest it? And I said that to him in my other question in bracket said but you're not allowed to say buy American apartment. But his answer was he would buy mining stocks which is quite. And that's all he said, buy mining stocks. And that was just before, guess what, a mining boom. So he and I looked at the price when he said that what the price of BHP was back then compared to what it was now, it's like, you know, thousand percent increase. So I grabbed a lot of the questions from then like one of the questions I asked him was what was his best investment? And funnily enough he said that the one that I mentioned before with his 20 million sold the next day but that was his best investment. But you know, the fascinating thing is the different answers from different people. So I've not just interviewed property people, I've interviewed some share, I've interviewed a share expert which isn't out yet on entrepreneur and the variety of answers that I've got from the same question even though questions are the same, I don't think anyone has answered them the same way. Right. Which is great. For instance, I interviewed Dale Beaumont who's a bit of a mentor to me, guru. When I asked him what's his best investment, guess what it was his wife. Right. Because they created the business together and she's been so instrumental in his success. Wow, that's. That's pretty cool. So. Yes.

Do you remember what I said?

Your best investment. Wait, it was part of your husband, wasn't it? What was that? He was.

I may have mentioned my husband because it was the fact that they've shown that the people who are most successful actually have a partner that supports beautifully. Also, it's the best real estate investment is the same space between your ears.

All right, I like that now. Yes. You're okay. So one, one of the overarching themes of being the best has been education, which I didn't think people would say. You mentioned you, you broke it down into actual quarters. Right. Which was fantastic. But I didn't even think so. I'm learning myself because I, I, I'm definitely learning myself and I'm, you know, the reason for this podcast is to leave my daughter something for her to look back on in time because, you know, who gets time to go out and say, well, you know, if I gave my book my, if I gave my daughter my book about property depreciation, she ain't gonna read it. Right? But hopefully one time your son will watch your podcast with me and you bloody should enjoy it because I thought it was fantastic. And hopefully my daughter at one point, she hasn't listened to any of them yet, but he might one day. You know, when I'm up in that great Quantity surveying sky.

So 10 with Ty, you've interviewed a lot. You've released six. Is there, you know, you talked about education, partners, et cetera. Is there any real common threads that you could pull out that are really like the answers to the big questions, where would you invest your money? Or, you know what, what advice would you give your earlier self?

So, well, education, as I mentioned. So pretty much as I said, they're very, very different answers. I'll probably actually at one point towards the end analyze it and say and try and get out some nuggets. I actually spoke to my book publisher about this. She said, why don't, you know, you take. Turn this these answers into a book at one point. I don't know whether I'll get around that. But the other two things I've noticed are leveraged is your friend. People have constantly talked about leverage and how that can get you ahead of the game. I would quasi that with leverage is good for property, but I don't, I lost a lot of, I've lost a lot of money in my life leveraging into shares and shares can be a very bad leverage equity strategy if you ask me. Shares are good. I've got a big portfolio of shares but I would never advise anyone to leverage the shares. Probably different because you don't get margin call. No one ever. I know the option probably is in the contract that you sign with the bank that if it really goes down in commercial it does happen, but in residential, it's probably not going to get margin call. On, on residential property. The other overarching theme is compounding, learning about the fact of starting early and the learning the impact of compounding interest, you know, and how that. And that's what the one that's right. And that's, you know, Warren Buffett always talks about that as well the, the of compounding interest. So, so I, I think the lec. I don't know whether I should call it the cell principle, compounding, education, leveraging. But. Or the LE principle leverage education or compounding. And yeah, but that's, they've been kind of the three overwhelming themes that I've learned. And also. Yeah, the, yeah, just the difference in answers from people has been quite astounding.

The people that you have interviewed, I'm assuming they're self made. Most of them, they're not.

Yeah. None of them actually. None of them have. I don't think any of them come from money. The other thing interesting thing is when I ask people, you know, what, what do you want to be remembered by? What's, you know, what success look like to you? Right. What does success look like to you? Is one of the questions. Not one person has had money. No one has their money. I interviewed Steve McKnight and he's, he, he's interesting. He hasn't, I haven't released that one yet, but he talks about, you know, when you, when you pass away, what's. If you could just say one word that you want to be remembered by. Right? That's not greedy, not selfish. It's. It might be generous, you know, so what would be the one word? It's never like wealthy. It's like, well what, what is that? And I've been thinking about that. What's the one word? Why don't we, why don't we kind of just enact that word or try and remember that's the one word I want to be. And mine's probably generous, to be honest.

What would be your one word?

Generous would be funny. Would be another one. Inspiring. Yeah. It's an interesting concept though if you just got one word that you want to be remembered by. What would it be?

Maybe we should start a thread. The one word thread. What's your one word? Let's do that. Or do that as part of this discussion. I'm interested also in just bringing it around. I'm in numerous groups and I'm in this AI prompt Engineer masterclass group, or no networking group, where we kind of share what we're learning. And one of the things, I've been building a lot of custom chat PT's for my clients, etc, but one of the things I've done is I've uploaded all the transcripts of my podcast into a chatgpt that people can actually ask questions. Questions of.

Wow, I didn't think of that.

You could upload your transcript, for instance, and you could actually say, you know, what is the. The common threads? What are the five biggest things? What are the. Yeah, I could build it for you. Let's talk. I know, I love it. I just, you know, I use, I use chat, GPT or AI as kind of a inspiration tool because I'm always coming up with ideas and I'll sit with them for a week and waste time. But now I just have it as a little brainstorming session. I have it all seasoned for me and I have it linked into my big vision and all the things I'm trying to create for my clients and community. And I'll go, what about this? I'm like, jane, not really linked to your big vision. It's a nice idea to make money, but really. And I'll go, yeah, okay, so that's gone in five minutes. I don't have to hold it in my head.

I've got to use it more. Whenever I use it, I'm like, why don't I use that more? Like what I think is in my brain.

Well, I was to give you an idea, just like random. I, I was sitting with this thought last week around. You know, we look at the entrepreneurs and we look at sports people and we look at these people who are like, you know, really achieving amazing things. And they're going, you know, my podcast is called Exit the Matrix is like going out of the norms of society that they're going to do things that aren't quite, quite typical. It's like in ancient times or older times, who were those people? And, you know, I was thinking, you know, a lot of the saints, you know, they, they went against something. You know, a lot of saints obviously were martyrs, so they went against something. But, you know, they had this principle that they stood for or they did something different. I was like, okay, that's kind of interesting. And then I went down the line of well, what about the adventurers? And you know, those people who kind of set sail in boats that didn't often make it back. And I went into ChatGPT and said, you know, I don't know a lot about Marco Polo but he bought a lot of stuff back from Mongolia. What are the top five books on Marco Polo? And I want a books that actually describe the inspiration of why he did it, what he brought back, the impact on society. And I came up with the five books and then I then went and just checked them out and just ordered one at the library on. I think it's John Mann who wrote it. But this is a guy who spent basically his dad and uncle were merchants. This is a little history tastes here because I loved it. They went off, we're going, you know, there's no, there's a lot of merchants here in Venice. There's a lot of stuff going on. I'm going off to find, you know, my wealth in the East. The, you know, the Mongols at that stage had pretty much taken over China, Russia and moved half across Europe. And then the Khan had died and they pulled everyone crop back. So Khan hadn't died, we probably all have that as our, you know, European basis. So they just pulled everyone back, millions of them. And so they're like, oh, let's go check it out. So this guy, Marco's father takes off, leaves his wife who just happens to be three months pregnant, didn't know, comes back 15 years later and go, I've got a 15 year old son. Oh, nice to know. Wife dead bugger. But then spends two years because the Khan over there is like, oh, I'm thinking Christianity be nice, we've got all the other religions here. They saw the, the, the value of having a multi religious state and respect. Bring me 100 priests. Take some five years to get back, get back again, go back five years to get to Xanadu. This happens to be the name of the southern palace of the Khan and then goes on as his emissary around, around Indonesia and Afghanistan and everywhere, discovering pepper and spices and fireworks and blah blah, blah, blah blah. Doesn't return for another 17 years. Like he's away and he gets arrested when he's back because he missed his like, you know, conscription thing and recites his story to a cellmate. So he actually wrote his own story.

Wow.

And I always said they go like these adventurers, these people that, you know, go, that's probably going to take me five years to get there. And we talk to investors and they're like, what can I get rich tomorrow?

It wasn't like you get a webjet and book a trip, right?

And they kept having to like go around and miss wars and they don't know until they get there there's war going on. So anyhow, I have a greater admiration for all of these people that go before. So with your podcast where you've got people who are like, hey, here's the, you know, success leaves clues. Why don't we just have a look at some people who've done it and pick up what they're doing? Because I think with property investing often what I see is people try to reinvent things. If it's a bit boring, they make it interesting by doing some type of, you know, the latest craze that doesn't always work out.

Yeah, Yep. No, totally, totally. Very good.

Oh well, Taryn, it's always a pleasure talking to you.

Same, same. Very good.

Okay.

So we lost the words often, do we, Jane? Sorry, we don't often seem to be lost for words.

No, no. We could keep going for hours. Probably will actually. Well, we might finish up here. I really appreciate your time. You know, for people who are watching this Washington Brown, I'm going to put a link in to not just the discount to Washington Brown, it's a no brainer, just do it. It's part of, you know, what every, every intelligent strategic property investor is doing. And if you don't have one, then you're probably not a strategic property investor just like his love. And go and check out Ten with Ty, the link to your podcast IO. I'll give you a link to that too. But you know, it's just, it's really, it's really interesting, you know, talking to people who are in the property market and you know, I came across Ty, I don't know, about 15 years ago when we're both writing for Australian Property Investor magazine. And for me it was a challenge and I'm just watching this guy putting out these articles like they're like, you know, oh, here's some cream. Did you want some more? Do you want some more? I'm like, wow, this guy can write and he's interesting. And so, you know, we got to meet each other. We've been firm mates ever since. Went to Bali for a while, had the big change. Actually, let's share the book.

Which one? My wife. Okay. Well she wrote a book called Our Green Change. So background. So you know I've been doing this for a long time. And we had a bit of a, I would need a bit of a change. You know, you get like steady. And my wife will reading the Sydney Morning Herald Saturday one Saturday. And we'd always talked about going overseas and traveling and living and working overseas. But it's a bit hard when you've got like 50 staff. And she wants, she's a part Italian. She's like, let's go live in Italy. I'm like, time zone. So one Saturday morning, she's reading the Good Weekend and there's this article about this school in, in, in, in near Ubud called the Green School, which is big bareboo school in the jungle in Ubud. And she said, want to, want to go and live in Bali for two years. And I went and I'm like, yeah, all right, let's do it. Because I know like time zone's good, blah, blah. Anyway, six months later, we're living in Bali. We're taking our daughter to this bamboo school in the jungle called the Green School, where they, you know, it's a bit of a free range education. They wear thongs. There's no tests. They build pyramids. It's auto languages. I'm sorry, angles. I'll build a pyramid, mud pyramid and you know, work out the angles that way. And it was possibly the best tease of my life. Jane. I learned Bahasa I speak lastly now. And I'll go back every year. So, yeah, so she wrote a book about it called Our Green Change. It's a brilliant book. It's probably. I've got to be honest with you, Jane. It's better than my book about property depreciation. Crazy thought. But she, she's a. I know.

I've got both books. I don't want to say anything, but I do have both books. I enjoyed them both.

If you like Bali, you're interested in a form. She talks not just about the Green School, it's about Bali history and it's about educational system. So if you like Bali, it's a great book for, for that.

Oh, well, I'm going to have my first trip to Bali in October. I'm going on a retreat.

Okay.

There's 10 of us going at the moment. I only know myself. I'm invited. My friends, they also, they can't come. I'm like, well, there you go. I'm gonna get new friends. It's your problem. But reconnect, retreat. I'll drop a link here. It's gonna be. Yeah, it's I'm really excited. I've never actually want. I've just gone like Bogan Bali. It's not me, but when I saw this Reconnect retreat and what Jen is doing, I was just like, oh, my goodness. I think I want to, like, bathing waterfalls.

King of retreats. And they're awesome, so you'll love it. Are you just staying at the retreat or you're actually gonna be. You're just going there for a. I think we're going.

We're doing, like, a number of ceremonies. It's, like, for women to reconnect with their purpose and everything they want to do. And I'm like, oh, yeah, I could spend a week doing that. Hanging by the pool, drinking champagne. And then every now and then going off and doing some nice little classes and yoga in the morning.

Sounds like you'll be drinking kombucha rather than a champagne.

Probably. No, mind you, you know, whatever. I'll go with the flow. Okay, well, let's wrap this up. Thank you so very much for being the most amazing guest. We covered negative bearing, we've covered property, we've covered, like, Harry's big tips, we've gone through the podcast, everything. Yeah, I love it. Well, we'll have to talk to you again soon. I really appreciate your time and to everyone who is watching here, drop down your thoughts and your comments, and I'm sure if you have any questions for Ty, we can send them to him and I'm sure he will answer them. But I really encourage you to just go over to the what website? I'll drop the link and check out sign up for the newsletter. Like, they're always a really good read. And yeah, I'm sure you will not go wrong. So thanks again, Ty. Really appreciate it.

Thank you. Always a pleasure, Jay.

And to everyone else, here's to your property success. Bye for now.

Bye.