6 REASONS You Feel Lost In Life & How To FIND YOURSELF! EP 1246

This is episode number 1,246 on the six reasons you'll feel lost in life and how to find yourself. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. I receive a lot of messages from my listeners, which I'm always grateful for. It means a lot to me when you reach out to me. But a lot of you mentioned feeling lost in life right now. You feel stuck in a situation that you can't see the way out of. And a lot of us have been there and you're not alone. I'm telling you, I've been there. I felt stuck many times. You are not alone in this process. In today's episode, I wanted to bring together some extremely impactful conversations from women on the show in honor of Women's History Month to help you find yourself and start loving yourself again. In this episode, we discuss what it means to truly belong with Brene Brown, how to advocate for yourself with Sarah Jakes Roberts, how to stop self-sabotaging with Mel Robbins, the importance of owning your truth with Laverne Cox, why you need to stop putting pressure on yourself with Marie Forleo, the importance of being able to respond instead of react with Candace Parker, and so much more. Okay, in just a moment, let's dive into today's episode. Okay, listen to this crazy fact. Traditional lawn care lays down 90 million pounds of pesticides each year. But there's another solution, Sunday, so you don't have to choose between having a beautiful yard and keeping your family out of harm's way, which I know is especially important to my business partner and good friend, Matt, who wants to make sure his yard is a place that his two young kids can play around in safely. Sunday can help you grow a beautiful lawn without the guesswork or the nasty chemicals. And their custom plans include fertilizer and everything you need to easily care for your lawn made from kid and pet safe ingredients like seaweed, iron and molasses. All you have to do is visit getsunday.com, put in your address and their lawn analysis tool does the rest. They'll use soil and climate data to create a personal nutrient plan delivered to your door. They're ready to use attaches to your garden hose and it takes less than 15 minutes to spray your lawn. I know Matt is pumped to try it out when it arrives and I'm excited to hear how he likes it with his kids. And Sunday is offering our listeners 20% off. Full season plans just start at $129 and you can get 20% off at checkout when you visit getsunday.com/greatness20. That's 20% off your custom plan at GetSunday.com/Greatness20. In this first section, bestselling author, Berné Brown talks about what it means to truly belong and how to really live in alignment with the truest version of yourself. I didn't know who I was for a very long time. And still, I'm trying to learn who I am.

Yeah. Me too.

You are?

Yeah.

But you seem like you have it all figured out.

Oh, God. No, I don't. No, I don't have, I mean, first of all, I think the one thing I've learned in my research above all else is that in the absence of love and belonging, there's always suffering. So when I hear about your experiences growing up, that's suffering.

Yeah.

You know, that's real suffering. And for me, not making the drill team when I was, I think it was in eighth grade, by itself is not a lot, but how my family responded to it. It was like when things changed for me and I didn't feel like I belonged to my family anymore. So I think that I still am trying to figure it out. I don't know that I've interviewed anyone, even spiritual leaders who have the belonging thing completely nailed, because I don't think it is what we think it is. You know, I don't think that it's having a big posse of friends, or having a crew or rolling with a bunch of people, I think I'm still trying to figure it out because I still feel lonely and alone and on the outside of things on a really regular basis.

Really? I mean, you're going on a book tour with thousands of people, a 15-city tour, millions of fans around the world and you still feel alone.

Yeah, I can feel really lonely.

Why?

And it's really hard because, you know, you talk about that book tour, I'm a severely introverted, super private, and so I love that connection between me and an audience, but it can also be hard on me. And also, I'm talking about things that no one, it's weird to me that people sign up to talk about them, but they're hard topics sometimes, and we laugh and we have fun and we'll sing, but I think what I've learned in doing the research on belonging is that belonging is being a part of something bigger than yourself, but it's also the courage to stand alone and to belong to yourself above all else. And so I think I spend a lot of time belonging to myself, and sometimes that makes other people uncomfortable. And so I think that's hard. I think I do feel I'm always looking for, I don't know about you, but I'm always looking for the roadmap. Like, I want to find the researcher, storyteller, Christian, lover of all people, fighter of the resistance. I want to find the blueprint of who's ahead of me, believing what I believe in and doing it really well. But There's not really a blueprint sometimes.

We're all trying to figure it out. We're all trying to figure it out.

I don't get to copy anybody. And so it's hard. It's still hard. But here's a thing that has changed everything for me. I belong to me. So even when I feel alone and I wonder, like, who's my crew and who are my people, I belong to me for sure. For the first time in my life, maybe.

Yeah, and I think we lose ourselves sometimes by trying to belong in groups that we don't fit in. Yeah. You know, I remember being in, you know, the youngest on these sports teams growing up. I was playing on the junior varsity as a freshman or the varsity or whatever, so I was the youngest and I remember just wanting to fit in, just like you did on that team. I wanted to fit in, I wanted to feel like they liked me, like I mattered, like I was a cool kid or whatever. And when they would do things that I didn't really agree with, or they would bully other kids or make fun of people, It's like, I didn't want to not say anything, you know, I didn't want to stand against them because I wanted to belong. So if I did stand up against them, then that means I was alone. And that was my biggest fear, was being alone.

Oh yeah, because that's what teams and groups deliver. They deliver this thing that you're not alone. The problem is there's just, I was so shocked to learn in the research that the opposite of belonging is fitting in. Because fitting in is assessing a group of people and thinking, who do I need to be? What do I need to say? What do I need to wear? How do I need to act? And true belonging never asks us to change who we are. It demands that we be who we are. Because if we fit in, because how we've changed ourselves, that's not belonging. That's not belonging because you betrayed yourself. for other people. And that's not sustainable.

Yeah, you start to lose yourself.

You start to lose yourself, exactly what you said. And so, I think it's hard. You have to show up as who you are.

How do we find out who we are?

That's the life's work, right? That's frickin' hard.

Do you know who you are?

Yeah, I do.

Who are you?

In what way?

If someone just said, who are you, Brene Brown? What would you say?

Brene Brown. Mom, partner, researcher, storyteller, Texan. I don't know. I'd ask them how much time they have. Because the thing is that we want to, when we ask people who they are and we want to know, we'd like those really easy files to put them in. But I'm a complicated person.

Are you?

Yeah.

And so I think I know who I am.

What makes you complicated?

I don't know if I'm complicated, but I'm complex.

You're interesting.

I hope so.

Very interesting.

I think that some days, no.

Very interesting.

I think what makes me complex is I think what makes everyone complex is the paradoxical nature of people. So, you know, like I speak in public. I love doing that, but I'm incredibly introverted. I'm kind of a traditionalist around things. My kids say yes, ma'am, no, ma'am, but I also raise them to challenge authority every time they get the opportunity to do that. But to be really polite when they're doing it. Sure, sure. Yeah, so I think I'm unapologetically earnest. Like, I believe in the goodness of people, but I believe it's hard work to stay out of fear and stay good. And so I think I understand people. I think I have a lot of empathy, but I'm also not afraid of discomfort. So I think there's just a lot of push and pull. And I think that's true of all of us. I do not like to be defined.

I think that was-- Do you? I was gonna say, I feel like my entire life, I didn't wanna be defined as well. They were like, you,'re gonna be this jock in college, you're gonna be like this alcoholic, you're gonna be in the frats. All my siblings said this to me and I was like, no, I'm not. I made a bet with each one of my siblings, $100 each, that I wouldn't have one sip of alcohol in college. 'Cause I was like, I'm gonna go against everything you think I'm gonna be. I joined the school musical 'cause they were like, you,'re just gonna do sports. I sang, I played guitar, I salsa danced. I was like, I'm gonna do everything.

Different than what people would expect of.

A tall white man, right? That's awesome. I was like, I wanna be different. And I think in that process I was like trying to discover who I really was, what I liked, my dreams, what, you know. what was fun for me, as opposed to just trying to fit the box and the mold of everyone else. Because you can lose yourself in that.

Fitting in, I think. You can lose yourself in the fitting in, and you can lose yourself in.

The rebuttal to the fitting in.

It's true. Trying to go against it all too, yeah.

Yeah, it's really hard.

I mean, it's the thing that it's a quote that is Braving the Wilderness is all about this, starts with this quote from Maya Angelou, that We're never free until we belong nowhere. We belong everywhere, which is nowhere, which is no place at all, which I thought was a terrible quote for many years. And I was like, why are you saying that, Dr. Angelo? You're pissing me off. But then I realized, really, and she says, the cost is high, but the reward is great. And I think, I think that's the thing that I feel like, I belong everywhere I go, no matter where it is or who I'm with, as long as I never betray myself. And the minute I become who you want me to be in order to fit in and make sure people like me is the moment I no longer belong anywhere. And that is hard. Yeah. I mean, that's a hard practice. That's an everyday practice.

Wow.

Yeah, 'cause I can be whoever you want me to be like that.

You're like a chameleon, you said.

Oh, I can be totally like a chameleon. Like sometimes it's really funny 'cause I always, 'cause I travel so much, I have all these miles, I always sit in business class and I'm normally the only woman in business class. Every now and then there's one other maybe, which is a conversation we should be having too.

Sure.

But it doesn't matter what dude sits next to me. I can talk about whatever that person likes. And it's so funny because we'll talk about sports usually first or football or we'll talk about politics and he'll say, what do you do? And I'll say, I study vulnerability and shame. Oh, well, huh, well, I'm gonna play some angry birds, you know, and right that moment, like, I can just, and it's not that I know everything about everything, it's just, so you're saying most.

Men don't wanna chime in and learn more about that?

No, that's usually, if I wanna go to sleep, I'm like, I'm a shame researcher. What do you do? You're like, okay. But I think I can be anything.

Yeah, you're adaptable.

I'm adaptable. And adaptable is great because anyone that comes to my home or here to work, I can make you feel comfortable.

Of course.

But then if I get so adaptable that my goal, my intention of adapting, is to make sure you like me, then that's when I betray myself. Yeah, yeah.

What would you say is the time in your life you've been the most alone?

High school.

Just the whole journey.

Yeah, it just sucked.

It does suck.

And you know, my daughter just graduated from high school and she had this amazing experience. You know, just incredible experience. And it was so healing to watch.

Oh, that's nice.

Yeah, and I think, It happened because she, I think she had the confidence to put herself out there and, you know, student council president and that kind, I think because we have a rule at our house that no matter what, you belong here. No matter how goofy, awkward, afraid, wrong, it doesn't matter, you belong here. And so I think when we give our kids a a platform like that at home, it gives them the courage to take risks outside of home. Does that make sense?

Because they feel safe coming back, no matter what happens, they always have a place to come home to.

Yeah, and I grew up in a house where it was very chaotic. I'm the oldest of four, and fitting in and being cool was the most important thing. So I think without that pressure, I probably would have never tried out for that drill team. But in my world growing up, you only did two things. You were a cheerleader or you were on the drill team, and preferably you married a running back or a quarterback. I mean, that was the way it went. And so for me, I probably would have been like president of the French Club. You know, I would have been in debate or those kind of things. Newspaper.

Oh, for sure.

Yeah, yeah, photographer for the yearbook. But those things did not have a lot of value. Really? Not, no.

Your parents didn't instill that as something credible or worthwhile?

No, it's just, That cool was the number one value at home. Cool, lots of friends, popular. And that just wasn't my, I wasn't that thing. You know, I was, yeah, I wasn't, and so what I did is I just started drinking, smoking weed, hanging out with, you know, I found a place to be, you know, cool. And, you know, that just goes bad fast.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Have you ever had a conversation with your parents about this?

Oh yeah, we've talked about all of it.

You have?

Yeah.

You've let it go, you've processed it all.

Oh yeah, 'cause they read my books as I write them. And they're like, shit, this is exactly what every parent wants, a child who grows up to be a shame researcher. But no, they just, that's the miracle of my parents. Like my parents, they've taught me the best thing about parenting that anyone I think could ever know, which is, It doesn't end when your kids leave. Like they keep growing and exploring and learn, you know, and however hard it was for me not being able to be, you know, we did not do vulnerability growing up. Really? No, no, no, no. Like, yeah, like our family motto was literally lock and load. Like get ready, you know, family trips, you're in the car for five hours, that's all six of us, you really have to go to the bathroom, but the rest stop is on the other side of the highway, we're not pulling over, like suck it up, hold it. like we were tough. We were tough. Like we'd fall down and get hurt. You know, my dad would say, like, I got bigger scratches than that on my eyeball. You know, like, yeah, like we were tough. And so, and we were taught to outrun vulnerability. We were taught to suck it up, soldier on, get her done.

Yeah.

And so however hard that was for me growing up, imagine what it was like for my parents. in the 50s. You know, my dad, who was the youngest of six, his dad died when he was 16. You know?

Was he able to process that or no?

No, he just did the next thing you do. Played football, played college ball. My mom, who's my grandmother, who I named my daughter after, was an alcoholic. And she was drunk every other day of my mom's life. But she was the most amazing person in the world. but everyone knew she was an alcoholic, so my mom wasn't allowed to have friends at our house growing up because it was the 50s and she was divorced. You know, and so my mom became the head of the drill team and the, you know, the valedictorian. And so however hard it was for me growing up having to try to outrun vulnerability, it was a million times harder on my parents. And they didn't, they did what they knew how to do, and they loved us, as much as they could love us with the tools they had. And so I don't have, I think the hard part comes from people that I've interviewed my whole life where the parents don't grow and change. And they see anything a child trying to do differently as criticism of what they did, as opposed to my parents who lean in and say, tell me more about that. I have a funny story. You hear a funny story about my dad? Yeah, it's great. So we do a lot of choice theory with my daughter and my son. And so choice, my husband's a pediatrician. So we know a lot about child development from school. And so when Ellen was little, we used to do this thing where we would say, you have two choices. Like, Louis, you have two choices. You can either hand me the water, I'm gonna have to take it from you. What is your choice? So that if you decide not to hand it to me and I have to take it, it's not my fault. That was your choice. And so one night I was talking to Ellen, we were at my dad's house in Santanonia, and I was like, Ellie, you need to turn off Dora the Explorer. It's time to go to bed. And she's like, mm-mm. And I said, Ellen, you have two choices. You can get up and turn off the TV, or I'm gonna get it up and turn it off for you. And if I have to get up.

And turn off the TV, you're gonna.

Lose privileges to watch it tomorrow. And that's your choice. Yeah, that's your choice. So do you, you know, and I would hate that for you, but that will be your choice. And my dad was sitting in the recliner next to me, and he's like, damn, sis, what are you raising? A hostage negotiator? I was like, Dad, and he's like, Seriously, Brené, we had four of y'all. We didn't have time for that. So the next day I come home, I'm visiting friends in San Antonio, and he's watching Ellen, and he's in the driveway. It's like 110 degrees in San Antonio, and he's sweating. He's like, Ellen, you have two choices. You can either put the bicycle up.

Or I'm gonna have to put it up for sale.

And the second one's a dumbass choice. So I was like, wow, you're so close.

You're getting there.

You're getting there.

But you're getting there.

My parents are amazing in that way that like, they're learning and changing. So I think it's harder when parents say, I'm done. What you got was what you got. No apologies, no change, no remorse. Take it or leave it. And if you do it differently with your own kids, you're a sucker.

Wow.

And I think we see that a lot.

Yeah, we do. I mean, what should parents be learning about how they can grow? I mean, how can they start to be aware? Because I think it starts with being aware.

Yeah, for sure.

Of what they know and what they don't know, and being receptive to learning something different, which is really hard to do. I think once you've had these habits for so long, so that's the first thing, and I want to dive into the lack of vulnerability with what's happening in Charlottesville right now as well. I know you did something on that this morning. So I guess how can parents listen to this and be aware and be willing to move forward in a different way of learning something new when they're so stuck in their ways potentially that it's worked for them to this point to get to where they're at?

You know, I think.

I believe this with my whole heart. I believe that 99.9% of parents are truly waking up every day and doing the very best they can with what they have. I don't think there are a lot of parents who wake up and maliciously try to screw up their kids or hurt their kids or belittle or shame their kids. I think we're doing the best we can with what we have. And so I think to let go of the idea that if I have done something that I could have done better or that I could learn from, that I have to just come down. People defend their parenting like they're defending their lives because it's such a shame minefield. Yeah. You know, I mean, a great example is the work you're doing around men and vulnerability. I cannot tell you the number of fathers and the hundreds, if not thousands of fathers I've interviewed that said, I shamed my son every time he was vulnerable.

Yeah.

I put him down, I made fun of them, I hit him every time he was vulnerable. And now I look back and I know it's because that's the way I was raised or I was afraid he'd be soft and get hurt at school or, you know, whatever the thing is. And so I think for parents, it's about understanding, giving yourself permission to not have been, I'm not perfect. Like, you know, like I've never not been a researcher and a parent. My husband's a pediatrician. Our kids will be in therapy.

You're right.

And the reason why I think that'll be so successful is there's only two kind of kids you raise, kids who will ask for help when they need it, or kids who won't. And that's as good as it gets, is to raise a kid who'll ask for help.

Yeah, I never asked for help. Yeah. I was always suffering inside.

Yeah, right.

And I always felt shameful, guilty, and I just, my way of asking was being angry, resentful, mad, hitting people in sports or outside of sports. Sports, because that's all I knew. In this next section, best-selling author Sarah Jakes Roberts talks about dealing with trauma and the importance of advocating for yourself. What is the greatest trauma that you're still dealing with the most? That you maybe started the healing process and you've improved, but you're like, that still triggers me. Maybe I'm not slamming cars into someone, but it's still like, that doesn't feel good.

You know, I don't know that I have a certain incident that triggers me, but I think the residue of not.

Being able to defend myself, emotionally, spiritually, physically.

First of all, you better ask these questions. Trying to get clarity. I think emotionally, because I think that the residue of that shows up in my life and I have to advocate for my feelings. Because when I got pregnant, I felt like I did something wrong. Okay? And this is not just something wrong in church, right? Because if you do something wrong in church, there's another community that will embrace you. When you're a teen mom, there's not another community that's like, oh, we love team mom. You know what I mean? Like, oh, we please have another baby. We love this, you know? And so I didn't have anywhere to go in the world that would jUdge me or in the church that wouldn't judge me. And because this was something I willfully did, no one took advantage of me. I felt like, well, I can't be hurt over this. I can't be broken over this. I have to let everyone else grieve, and I just have to sit here with my feelings. But I was hurt. I was sad. I was disappointed. And so now, even as a woman, I have to learn to advocate for my right to have feelings, even if I've done something wrong.

Yeah, and even if it was your decision.

Yeah, right, right.

And it's hard at 13 to develop the emotional capacity to express and feel in a healthy way.

Yeah, it is.

We don't have those tools.

And then you have to stop, right? Because when you're now a parent, you're not able, like, because I assume, I don't know, I've never been 13 and not had a child, but I assume somewhere between 13 and adulthood you learn how to get those tools. I feel like I even emotional shut down at 13 and have had to work to open up again.

Do you feel like you're a lot more open now?

I am.

My heart is open.

I love that feeling.

I don't feel about it though.

The other day I had to break up, I have a feelings will, you know?

Feelings will.

A feelings will.

Will.

Mm-. It's a will and it's got like, happy.

And then once you pick one, it.

Shows you all different because of my emotional vocabulary is pretty limited. And so like the other day, I felt happy, but I didn't know like why or what. And then I had to follow my will. And then the will to happy led me to like valued and respected, which were very foreign for me, like to have words that I feel valued, especially after struggling with my worth was like really interesting. My initial reaction was like, I don't.

Want to feel that. And then I was like, you don't.

Want to feel valued.

That'S that was my fear based initial response, which I think is the residue of trauma throwing the wall up. But then I had to work to say, no, this is your life. This is your truth. Like I'm still coaching myself emotionally.

So when you felt valued, it felt foreign.

Yeah, for sure. Not that I have never felt valued before, but I've never been able to connect what I was feeling with the idea of being valued.

When do you feel the most valued?

When my husband talks to me. Yes.

When he talks to you about anything, when he just looks at you.

When he just looks at me, when he just talks to me, when he just says whatever to me.

And how have you learned to develop your own self-worth, regardless of what he does or your kids do or your parent, you know, how have you done that yourself?

So in between, so I got divorced and I moved back home with my parents.

You didn't kill him?

No.

No, no, no. No, everything worked out fine. I didn't go to prison. Everything, yeah.

So-- you- kept your kids.

I kept my children, you know. I moved back home with my parents, and I started rebuilding from there, really from the inside out. And then, you know, I fell in love with myself. Like, because I think I was so, so just uninterested in who I'd become. that when I finally got out of that marriage, I started confronting my own poison. And I was so in love with myself and with my life and with my children, and I was able to get a house by myself. And so, like, I'm a. I ended up getting to that place I wanted to be where I was, like, a good mom and taking care of my children, and I was happy with myself, and I was taking care of my health and my body, and so I felt so valued. by myself then, that when my husband came in, he really just echoed what I was already saying about myself. And so I think that me coming to that place on my own had a lot to do with self forgiveness and then beginning to work towards a life that felt true to my potential and my dreams.

How did you get the poison out?

I think the first thing is acknowledging that it was there.

Because you weren't really acknowledging like, this is what happened, right? Blocking it and disassociating.

Exactly.

So now what did that process look like? Okay, I've lived this life up until now. What is the conversation that you had with yourself? Did you do some journaling? Were you just praying and connecting to God? Were you talking to your parents? Like, what was happening?

I did a lot of journaling. I started blogging. I let the poison speak.

Isn't it interesting when we hold our shame in, the poison just grows and expands? Yeah. It's like the moment we share our shame, whether it be to ourselves, written down to a friend or whatever, it's we release it.

Yeah. That's exactly what happened. I gave the poison a voice.

What was the voice?

Okay, so it said, like, I, you're worthless. Like, you're nasty. You're never going to have purpose. No one will ever want you. No one will ever be proud of you. Like, I let the poison speak. These were my thoughts 24/7. These were my thoughts 24/7 from 13 to 23. That's 10 years of poison.

You kept saying to yourself, I'm worthless. No one's ever gonna value me. No one's gonna love me.

This idea of like, oh, I'm proud of you. Like, I never had thoughts that were positive towards myself. Never. My dad would say, you,'re smart, and I would instantly reject it, because I'm like, Smart girls don't get pregnant.

If I was smart, why'd I do this?

Exactly. So when I finally started letting it speak, I came to this place where I had to ask myself, how long are we gonna receive this is truth. And then I would blog it. I would put those words out. Like, no one knew that I was pregnant, but I would like, or that I'd gotten pregnant at the time. Of course, people know now, but I would just like write all of these things. And then at the end of this blog, I would kind of like talk to myself as if a friend was talking to me. And it was through that process that I had something to say back to the poison. And then it went from whispering it back to the poison to raising my voice and raising my voice until the poison had to shut up because Faith was speaking.

Wait a minute. So for 10 years, your self-talk was poison based. The foundation was not good enough. You don't matter. You're not valued. You're not smart. All these things. How important is self-talk for you now in order to develop and increase self-worth?

Well, okay. So, you know, in scripture, it talks about being transformed by the renewing of your mind. Yes. The renewing of your mind is what took place in that moment. And so as my mind has been renewed, I have been transformed. And in that transformation, it's why the other day when I felt like valued and I, initially rejected, I let my renewed mind say, instead, receive this, allow it to penetrate the parts of your life that have never heard this before or wasn't aware enough to receive it. And so Mary J. Blige says once that, you know, she doesn't have children because she needed to parent herself. And I feel like in many ways, the way that I feel like I'm talking to myself in some instances is me parenting myself.

It's so funny, I don't have my phone on me, but on my phone, I've been working with a coach and a spiritual therapist right now who's been telling me to have a photo of my childhood self on my phone, like six or seven years old. So I've got a photo on my phone, I'll show you afterwards. And it's for me, whenever I feel that trigger coming in to like reparent myself.

Yeah.

And reconnect and be like, Hey, you're safe. It's okay. Like, you don't have to be afraid of this. You don't have to react. you can let that go. I got your back, you know, these things. And I think we haven't learned these tools on how to re-parent ourselves. It's challenging. And I can only imagine having kids and not having the tools to parent ourselves and then trying to parent someone else.

For sure.

Triggers must just be coming up all day long.

And I feel like, I mean, I will, I have two things. I don't know that previous generations had the tools at all.

At all.

At all.

It's all trigger reaction, anger, For sure.

Fear.

Yeah, and I think because of, you know, whether you've got toxic masculinity or the rise of women in the corporate environment, like there are so many, we had so many different things to worry about that, like how you feel, like, child, please. We'll talk about that later. Right, exactly. And so, you know, that didn't happen for the previous generations, but what I will say is this, I do think no matter how great you've had parenting in your life, that there's an ache inside of all of us. Now, it could be something minor, like a headache, or it could be a missing leg, depending on what you've gone through in life.

Emotionally.

Yeah. In some way. And so I think to come to terms with the fact that there is going to be a part of me, and even for me as a parent, there's going to be a part of my children that I just don't see, that I just don't see. I'm going to give this 100, but there's still going to be moments. Life is still going to have to suck them in. And in the process of doing that, they may come out wounded. And this is part of what I thought even when I was a single mother is like, so my job is not to protect them from harm. I'm going to do the best that I can, but I realize that they are going to have some harm, right? They're going to school, they're going to be around people and peers and who knows what will happen in that environment. My role is to show them how to recover from harm.

So true. In this section, best-selling author Mel Robbins talks about how to better understand your behavioral patterns. and not self-sabotage. How do we learn to not self-sabotage the good things that come to us?

So give me an example. Like how have you self-sabotaged things in your life?

I can't think of a good answer. I don't think I really do that that much, but I know that other people do and it's a big issue. Maybe I'm trying to think.

Okay, so I'll tell you.

But if people get into a good.

Relationship, this is a really big answer. You ready?

Yeah.

Okay, so now let's detour into the lane. We talked about this on the last time I was on. But let's detour into the lane of anxiety, of patterns and trauma, and talk about why people self-sabotage. Yes. People don't self-sabotage intentionally. Nobody wakes up in the morning and says, Today, I'm gonna screw up my life. That's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna drink myself on the ground. I'm gonna cheat on my wife. I'm gonna embezzle for my company. I'm gonna lie to everybody about how I'm actually feeling. I'm gonna stop taking my meds. I'm gonna kick the dog. Like, nobody does that. What happens is people get triggered.

And they react.

And then they fall into old patterns. And so what happens, I believe, in relationships in particular or jobs, where you're like, this time it's gonna be different, is it's different for the first three to six months when it's novel and when you're intentional and when everything counts.

But then when you gotta face yourself.

Then when it becomes like part of your life, you get lazy and you slip into old patterns. Or when the stakes get really high, Let's say you're somebody who had a parent die early or your dad abandoned the family and you're scared to love somebody. And so you fall deeply for somebody. And then what gets triggered is this tremendous fear that they're gonna leave.

Yeah.

Because that's your lived experience. And if you go back to what you did as a child to cope with that fear that somebody's going to leave, that's the exact pattern that you will repeat as an adult.

Mm-.

The only way to end this or to try to get your arms around it is to attack it holistically. Because so much of this happens at the subconscious level and it also, it gets triggered first by your nervous system and you're not even aware of it. And so there's a tool that I talk about in this book called high five in your heart.

Your heart.

Your heart, yep. So you, you, what you do. And I started doing this because I was having this incredible response from past trauma happen when the pandemic hit. So when the pandemic hit, I started waking up feeling like something was terribly wrong. And it would start my ankles and it would flood up my legs and go all the way up my body, and I would feel this wave come up. My immediate thought is, Something's wrong. And my heart would start to race, and I'd feel this full-on anxiety response. And I know what that is now. So I now know that the anxiety response of waking up, which so many people do, this is really actually very, very common.

People wake up anxious.

Yes, feeling like they're in trouble. Or something's wrong, or something's about to go wrong.

That's not good.

Well, if you grew up in a chaotic household.

That's normal.

Yep.

If you had a caregiver that gave you the silent treatment, or had mental illness, or had a drinking problem, or those are the things that are associated with anxiety. You did wake up anxious. Yeah, because your anxiety, by the way, was trying to protect you. It was putting you in a state of being alert so that you were ready in case something happened. A ton of us, Louis, we have lived our whole lives with a dysregulated nervous system. That's what I've come to learn during the pandemic, that I have literally lived since probably the fourth grade with my nervous system never truly resetting back to a calm resting state. And so I started to wake up every morning in the pandemic like so many people did, but and I've always kind of had this sort of wake up and feeling like something's like, -oh, you know, Chris is mad. Like my first thing is like, Chris is already up, he's meditating, he's angry that I've slept 15 minutes longer than him. Like it's so stupid, you know, this is how we torture ourselves. But during the pandemic, it was like a full-on anxiety response. And so I started doing this thing where I would put my hands on my heart, like right in the center of my chest. I got big mitts just like you, so you can kind of hit the whole thing. Take a deep breath, and then I would say, I'm okay. I'm safe, I'm loved. If you can say those things in this moment, it's true. You are okay. You are safe and you are loved, whether you're waking up in a mansion or a homeless shelter. And what would happen as I was doing this high-fiving my heart is you're pressing on the vagus nerve. Like that's what you're actually toning. That's the same thing that Wim Hof is teaching with the ice bath. you're toning your vagus nerve. And what the vagus nerve is, as you very well know, because you talk about on the show, is it's the switch between your sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous system, fight or flight versus rest. So if you ever find yourself in a stressful state, give your heart a high five. Put your hands on your heart, go, I'm okay, I'm safe, I'm loved. Repeat it 111 times if you need to. What you'll feel is you'll feel your nervous system start to settle. you'll feel yourself come back into your body, you'll feel your mind slow down, and you will literally take control of your nervous system. It is unbelievable. And it's also really important because in researching this book, I talked to the acclaimed Dr. Judy Willis, who's an incredible neuroscientist. And she explained something I never knew, but it makes a lot of sense. if your nervous system is on edge, it's in a like alert state, you're dysregulated, it's impossible for your cognitive function of your brain to work. I can give you an example. If somebody were to bust in here with a gun and try to rob us, would you be able to do a math problem?

No. No. Just thinking safety.

Yes, exactly.

Save my life.

I can't, I bet the majority of people, actually walk around with a nervous system that is on edge like that, particularly post pandemic. And for me, the reason why I've actually linked it all the way back. So when I was in the fourth grade, I was molested while I was sleeping by an older kid. And in the kind of array of things that can happen in terms of sexual abuse, mine was very tame. Like it was a one-time incident. It was a kid who's slightly older than me. It was confusing, not scary. I just possum disassociated. Don't even remember how it ended. And for a long time, I didn't even remember it. And then I remembered it when I was 28 years old. And I believe that the reason why I have always woken up in a state on edge, you're Is because of that incident.

Since the fourth grade.

Yes. And the thing is, Louis, is that I, you know, the morning's a trigger. If you have that stored in your body, something happened to you, something happened to you, something's wrong, something's wrong, because something was wrong. And you don't have the tools, and no kid does, to smooth out your nervous system and heal the trauma. That trauma lives in your body. And so I believe most self-sabotaging behavior that people continue to repeat is nothing but stored trauma and your best ability to cope with it when it was happening.

That's why we sabotage.

Yes. So I don't think it's intentional. I really don't. Like even somebody who's diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder, they don't, Know that they have that. Like they're not in, like there's not, it's like such a program behavior. There's no, I'm gonna go do the, I'm in love with this person. Let's go screw it up. That's not what happens. And this is also why I'm telling.

You.

I know I'm crazy passionate about this topic of this standing in front of the mirror and changing how you see yourself. If you don't get a hold of that story, I'm worthless, I'm unlovable, I screw everything up, I'm a bad person, I'm not good enough, nothing works out for me. If you don't change that and start cheering yourself forward, you will stay locked in these self-sabotaging patterns because you will act in a way that you believe it subconsciously or unconsciously.

In this section, Emmy nominated actress and award-winning producer Laverne Cox talks about the importance of turning up the brightness on your own light and owning your truth. Where do you think you'd be today if you didn't start owning it and fully accepting and fully being vulnerable, I guess, 10, 11, 12 years ago? Where do you think you'd be now if you didn't do that?

I don't know if I'd be alive.

Wow.

I honestly don't know if I even be here or if I were here, I'd be deeply unhappy, lost. It's a scary thought, honestly. I mean, it scares me because it feels like I think I was in such a place where I would have sabotaged. If anything good came, I would have found a way to sabotage it. And so, I mean, it's kind of a miracle that I haven't like that, that I haven't like all the lovely, amazing things that have come in my life, I haven't sabotaged them. Because I think that I didn't, I don't think I thought I deserved it. I didn't think I, I don't think I thought that I was worthy. Really? Oh my God, yeah. Oh my God, yeah. I did not think that I deserved nice things because the whole world told me I didn't deserve nice things. Nice things, love. I mean, the love piece too is so deep when you feel like you are, I mean, shame. Brené Brown defines shame as the intensely painful belief that one has about themselves that they're unworthy of connection and belonging. She says, Guilt is, I'm sorry I made a mistake. And shame is, I'm sorry I am a mistake. Deep sense, this deep feeling of unworthiness on a deep core level. and yeah, I was there. And I, and Lewis, I'm not there today. I feel a deep, I really, and this is a beautiful thing about quarantine too. I spent so much time in the beginning, particularly really delving deep spiritually and meditating and journaling and trying to get clear about what lessons I'm supposed to learn from this. And I do, I do feel worthy of love. I do feel worthy of belonging, you know, and that is a beautiful, It's a beautiful thing. I mean, I don't have a romantic partner in my life at the moment, which is actually good. It's actually really good, honestly. But I do feel worthy. And so then what are the challenges? And I've been thinking a lot about that. And a lot of it's just about health and like what the life that I want for myself going forward. You know, when you've achieved goals and you've achieved things that you want to achieve, it's like, what's next? You know? And it's not about, I certainly want to make more money and I certainly want to, you know, there's material things. It's not even material, it's things like I want to own more property and I want, you know, things like that. But it's like, how do I want this next part of my life to, how do I want to be in the world and what do I want to contribute and how do I want to step up more and be more present? And a lot of it has to do with my, having my health be really fully and securely in place so that I can step into this beautiful life we're developing, new projects and I have, There's wonderful things on the horizon, but I have to be able to fully show up for them. And I think the lesson now for everybody, everybody out there, is that there are beautiful things on the horizon for everybody, but you have to be able to show up for it. It's waiting there. I really believe that everybody's here for a reason and that it is waiting for us, but we have to be able to align with that energy because it's all energy. We have to be able to align with the energy and the reason. And I think, too, my life shifted when I started owning my transness, but it also was when I started understanding there was something bigger than me. A year after Candace Kane was on Dirty Sexy Money, I made these postcards that said, Laverne Cox is the answer to all your transgender acting needs. And I sent it to 500 agents and casting directors. I'm a true marketer.

I love it.

Right. I got the idea from this dude. I had done a movie years earlier, and this dude who was French, and he had been in New York for 25 years, but he kept his French accent in all of his work. was doing like French voiceover. He was playing a French dude in the movie we were doing together. He did a lot of voiceover where he had the French accent. And he said, I forgot his name, but he said, Bob, your French connection. He's the answer to all your French acting needs. I stole that from him. So I marketed myself as a trans actor, which is, I never would have done that before Candace Kane. But then that led to me doing this reality show called I Want to Work for Diddy in 2008. And the only reason I did it was because, well, the day before I, my final interview for I Wanna Work for Diddy, I was walking in my neighborhood in Midtown Manhattan, and I was harassed by a group of black guys on the street, which is part of my daily life, right?

I got harassed pretty much every day.

Harassed by mean like bullying or more like sexually harassed? Well, it often would start with being catcalled where the guys would be like, Hey, mama, you looking sexy today? And then one of the guys would realize I'm trans and say, oh, that's a man and misgender me. And then, that was, I mean, that was just my life. That was like, I armored up for that, living in New York. But this particular day, one of the guys kicked me. And so that was like, you know, I called the police, there was a police report, whatever. They didn't find the guys, but I like went into this nearby store called the police, terrified. By the time the police got there, the guys that were left on scene, filed the report. And then the next day was my final interview for I Want to Work for Diddy. And I thought, how powerful it could potentially be to have this hip-hop mogul P. Diddy sort of embrace me on this, his reality should have possibly been his assistant. And maybe that could make some sort of change or inroads in the black community that was mostly harassing me. And I don't think black folks are more transphobic than anyone else, but I think we harass people that we see, like, your crime, you know, black on black crime is this myth, basically, because white people, like, commit crimes against other white people because they're in proximity with them and black people are in pros and cons with other black people. And so the crimes happened there. So that, but, but the I want to work for Diddy moment was me choosing to do something that was bigger than me. Doing a reality show at the time, my brother didn't think I should do it. My friends were like, they're gonna, 'Cause.

You were an artist. You're an artist.

You're an actor. You're not an artist. I'm an artist. I'm an actor. But also in 2008, everything, this is 2008, everything about trans people for the most part, except Candace Kannon Dirty Sexy Money was exploitative. It was like spectacle. It was like, let's humiliate the trans person and everyone thought that that's what they were gonna do to me on that show. And I remember saying in my final interview to the executives, I'm like, I don't wanna be exploited. I don't want this to be a spectacle. I'm doing this because I want to make a statement and to generate some kind of acceptance. And I was assured by the producers that that's not what they wanted to do, that's not what Diddy wanted to do. And it turned out really well. But the lesson, long story short, from the lesson from that, is to be of service. The lesson from that is that when I was of service, that ended up going pretty well. I ended up getting my own show out of it. That show wasn't a success. I needed to stop doing reality TV. It wasn't my thing. But the lesson was to be of service. And then so owning my transness and then being of service were the two things that really shifted everything in my life. And the shift felt like all of a sudden the alignment happened, right? Because everybody, I think, in their lives, if you are lucky, you're gonna, something is, a shift is gonna happen and you're gonna feel in alignment with an energy that's bigger than you. And that is gonna be tied to purpose, it's gonna be tied to the reason you're here. And that is a beautiful thing. And I think that is the thing, I really believe that's waiting for everybody, I really do. And everybody's not meant to sort of, you know, be on television and produce shows or whatever. We're all here for something different. But I think when we can align and with that energy, and sometimes it takes a minute, I mean, honestly, Like the Orange is New Black didn't happen till I was 40 years old. And I was about-- that's crazy, yeah. I was about to give up acting, actually, 'cause that was the year I got the eviction notice. And I was in student loan debt and credit card debt.

And I was like, okay, girl, you.

Are 40. Who are you? If this acting thing isn't for you anymore, you're trans. Yeah, I mean, at the time, they had never been a trans person with a major acting career in the United States. So I'm like, okay, girl, you're delusional.

You gave it a good shot.

I mean, you're 40. I got 20 years of this, yeah. You tried, girl. Let's get it together. So I bought GRE study materials. I was looking into grad schools. I was gonna go to grad school and like I was thinking journalism, women's studies. I was like, I don't know what. I hadn't figured it out yet, but I was trying to figure out grad school and then the Orange audition happened and I didn't go to grad school. But the fun thing about that though is that literally four years after I booked Orange is the New Black, Thought I was going to go to grad school, but didn't. I got an honorary doctorate from the new school.

That's great.

So, you know, grad school was just, you know, acting stardom. That's amazing.

It's amazing what you've accomplished. And I'm curious what, I've got a few final questions for you. I want to, I could talk to you for hours, but this is, what advice would you, because I have, I think I mentioned to you a few years ago that I have a family member who I love deeply who is gender nonconforming.

Forming.

And they are going through and have been going through a challenging time in the last couple years, just finished up college. And I'm just curious your advice to your younger self who maybe was confused or struggling, feeling unsure of yourself, to people who are afraid to come out as gay, bisexual, people who are afraid to step into being trans, you know, fully publicly, all these different things that people have shame around. What advice would you give to those individuals today?

Oh, the truth will set you free. The truth will set you free. And I think that like, it can feel isolating and alone. And I think the beautiful thing about 2020 is that we can go online. It's not the same as having that friend in real life. but online there's support groups that you're not alone. And I think one can feel alone when you're going through that. Even in 2020, you can feel alone. You're not. There's support groups online. There's a local LGBTQ center in most cities, most major cities in the United States anyway, that you can go and find a community. You can go and find somebody who is like you or who can support you and accept you. If you can't find somebody who's like you, because everybody's different, you can find somebody who will see you and love you. Until you do that, you can start knowing for sure there's a light inside you. Wherever I go, I try to remind trans people that we are anointed, that in indigenous cultures all over the world, there were sacred traditions of third genders, fourth genders, where we were revered members of the culture. In India, we were called Hijra, Native American cultures here in the United States. Two spirits in Philippines, all over the world, indigenous cultures all over the world, trans people, what we would understand as trans people held a sacred place. In India, you would not get married or without the blessing of the hijra or you wouldn't have your baby christened without the blessing of the hijra. So we are sacred, we are anointed, and we just must step into that. We just must step into that and know this inside. I think Through all the years of confusion and messiness that I had, there was something in me that was like, I knew I was here for something bigger than all of that. And there is a light in there that we all have. And the work is to turn up the light. The work is to not let it be dimmed by anything, but actually to turn up the brightness on the light and shine, shine, shine. That is the thing. And as you shine that light. Some people will be blinded by it. Some people cannot take the light. They can't. And that's fine. But you'll attract the people who can. And I think that's a deep thing too. And I have to remind myself of that is I'm single and dating and just, you know, I'm Laverne Cox and it's like very challenging dating. But I know, I'm sitting here knowing how fabulous I am. You know, I know how fabulous I am. I know how sexy I am. I know all the things I have to offer. I can say that with such certainty now. And so what I know is that everybody can't take the light. And honey, if you can't take this light, then you're not right. You're not right.

That should be on your website. If you can't take the light, you're not right.

But no, but then, but that doesn't mean I'm going to change the light. I'm not going to dim my light. I'm not going to try to put on a mask to be somebody else. we're just gonna, if the right, we're gonna attract the right energy energetically.

And I think people need to know, not to cut, sorry, cut you off there, but to add to that, I think people need to know that when, sometimes when you step into your light and you turn it on, you turn on who you are, you're going to, some people are gonna flock to you and you're gonna burn a lot of people. They're gonna want to get away from you. Right. Some people can't take that.

They're not in their light. And then, and that's what makes me so sad. I mean, I've been meeting men and I've And it's, I think what's made me really sad about what's going on with a lot of, as I date or whatever, is that they're not in their light. They're not in their, they're brilliant. And so then it's like they can't, this is, they can't receive it. And it's, that's sad for them. Not sad for me.

Hallelujah. Exactly. But I think that people need to be aware that when you step into that light and who you are, It might be freeing, it'll go freeing, but then you might lose a lot of people around you. Yeah. Because the people you were performing for and wearing a mask for and having an armor for liked you for that. They don't like you for who you truly are. And you're gonna lose friends, potentially family members at certain times. Hopefully they come back around, but you've got to be prepared. And that's what I think is scary for a lot of people, that social pressure of losing friendships, family members, and that pain. Pain is necessary to become a butterfly. You're about to die before you can fly.

The quest for true belonging is being willing to go it alone. And Brené Brown, Brave in the Wilderness, honey, she starts off Brave in the Wilderness with the Maya Angelou quote, I belong everywhere and no place, everywhere and no place, no place at all. Something like that. Basically, but the Maya Angelou quote is basically about belonging everywhere and no place, but I belong to myself.

Ooh, that's amazing.

Yeah, that's amazing. And when you can truly belong to yourself, you can stand alone. It's okay to be in the truth and the courage of your convictions because you belong to yourself. We all need belonging as human beings, but that's scary. Everybody's not super smart enough for that.

Because if we don't truly believe in ourselves, we need the approval of other people to believe in us. And when we fully believe in ourselves, and accept who we are and lean into that. We may lose the approval of everyone around us, and we need to be ready to stand alone like that until you can attract the right people, which might take time. Yeah. And this is a, this is a sermon right here. And I love this.

Isn't that beautiful, though? I mean, the last thing I'll say is that, isn't it beautiful, though, to, to let go of the things that don't serve us? I think it's beautiful when those people drop out of our lives. It's really beautiful. It's like that because that, that It's dead weight. It's keeping me from flying.

Purge it. Purge what you don't need. Here, Marie Forleo, bestselling author and entrepreneur, talks about why putting so much pressure on yourself is the wrong way to become successful. What's the biggest lesson you've learned in the last decade for you?

That things, first of all, keep getting better. I think in our society, especially as or at least to, you know, as you get older, at least in my family, there was a lot of kind of cultural expectations like, oh, over this age, it kind of starts going down. Or you know what I mean? You're kind of, you peak when you're young, and that's when all the good stuff happens. And for me, I feel like it keeps getting better. And I love that the best years are still ahead of me, and that all the stuff that I've been through, there's like all of these exciting new possibilities. So that's one of the biggest lessons. And I think the other one is that I don't have to stress as hard. Like as a human being, I have a really strong work ethic, but I also tend to put a lot of pressure on myself. And the other lesson I've learned is that I don't need to do that. That the work actually gets done more joyfully and more creatively if I don't add on that additional layer of pressure and stress.

Why do you pressure yourself?

I have really high expectations. I want to take care of my team. I want to take care of my family. I want to do right by my customers. Like with this book, I wanted to do right by my publishing partners. And I always feel a sense of responsibility to make sure that I'm taking care of people. And embedded in that, I have historically put a ton of pressure on myself to make sure you know that the buck stops with me. But I think recently it's been really great to see how awesome it is to collaborate with people who are like, Girl, I got this. Like you're good, you go do your thing, I'll do my thing, and we'll create something together that's magic. And I've been like, this is amazing.

Don't stress about it, yeah. What's been the biggest challenge in the last 10 years?

I think the biggest challenge for me in the past decade, that's a good question.

Marie TV, what, eight years ago? Eight years ago?

Yeah, so to put this all in context, so I've been doing what I've been doing for 20 years now. So creating free content via email back starting in like 2000-2001, which seems like crazy, insane. Then blogging, and then I got Kuma in 2009. Kuma is my dog, my toy Australian Shepherd. He's a sweet little pup. And here's the thing, when we first got him as a puppy and I was training him along with Josh, I didn't have time to write a blog post.

You training Josh?

No.

Training Kuma along with Josh. Josh knew what he was doing. I was just like, what do I do with a puppy? I didn't have as much time to write blog posts and so I just started opening my webcam on my MacBook Pro and talking right into the camera.

I remember those early videos.

Yeah, they're still on the site.

Yeah.

And so Marie TV was actually started not because I had some big vision for like a show that I wanted to do, it was actually because I didn't have much time because I had a really cute new puppy and I needed to get consistent content out and I felt much more comfortable and it was faster to talk into my webcam than it was to construct a blog post. So that's how Marie TV started back in like 2009/2010.

It's been almost 10 years. It'd be 10 years.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Wow.

So I think one of the challenges of the past decade has just been to continue to stay really present with all of the work while continuing to grow the company, like making sure that folks on the team have the support that they need, making sure that we're attracting the right talent, people that have the right skills, the right culture fit, and just, you know, keeping all those plates in the air. And then, of course, still having a life. and making sure my relationship stays on track.

How do you stay on track with a connected, loving relationship as a female entrepreneur when you're putting so much energy into your business and the culture and the team and your customers?

I made so many mistakes. I mean, let's just be real. I talk about this and I've told this story. I work so hard to get my business off the ground. and I was often working seven days a week, not just coaching. That was a portion of what I did, but to keep a roof over my head, it was bartending, it was waiting tables, it was being a personal assistant, cleaning people's toilets, whatever I needed to do in order to pay my rent, put food on the table, and actually continue to grow the business. So I basically developed a habit of working nonstop.

Before Mary TV.

Oh yeah, getting the business off the ground. I worked side gigs.

Like a fitness coach.

You did like dance instruction. You did everything. I was a Nike elite dance athlete. I taught anywhere from like three to seven classes a week at Crunch Fitness. Some of them were choreographed. Some of them were basic fitness. I had the coaching clients. I was doing the content. And I was bartending and waiting tables. So I had developed this habit of nonstop work because that was what was necessary at that time. New York. Yes. But as Josh and I, you know, got together. And eventually when I let go of the bartending and the waiting tables and even the dance and fitness as a revenue stream, I didn't let go of the habit of working nonstop. And that created some real problems in the relationship where it was to the point that him and I had been together for seven years and never taken a vacation together.

Wow.

Like we had traveled because either he had something for his work or I had something for my work. But it was always work related, so it wasn't actual just together time, just him and I. And our relationship was almost over. Like he was kind of done with me.

Wow.

Because you were just, I want to work, I gotta build my business, you don't understand me, this is my dream.

I was operating too out of a lot of scarcity and a lot of just habit, like feeling like if I didn't work constantly that it was all gonna fall apart. And so there were other things mixed in there as well. as well. You know, there were other layers of just life pressures from all these different ends, but that was like a definite, a critical piece.

Yes, yes, son.

Oh, yeah. So I. My stepson Zane came into my life when he was seven. So the year that Josh and I kind of, you know, one of the times we've had many bumps along the road. We've been together for 16 years. Any couple that's been together that long, it's. It's not all unicorns and rainbows.

Those?

No, absolutely not. Relationships are so difficult, but at that particular juncture, Zane was going off to college, which that was a really big thing in terms of Josh processing that, you know, having your kid go off after you've raised them and then me working all the time, there was this confluence of stressors that put us in couples therapy and I had to really change a lot about how I was living what I was believing and really putting things back into perspective, which, you know, saved our relationship.

What were you believing?

Well, I was believing that if I didn't work constantly, that I wasn't a worthy person, that I wasn't doing enough to make my business successful, that I was perhaps letting people down. And so I had to really shift that and understand that, you know, I come from a background. I don't come from a wealthy background. So the work ethic in my nuclear family is very strong. Like my dad owned a small business. My mom, although she stayed home with us, she was constantly doing stuff, constantly working, constantly fixing things, constantly doing things that took care of the family. So that's the kind of DNA I grew up with was like, no, if something needs to get done, you get it done. It's not like you sit around all day eating bonbons and watching TV. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's kind of how I got there, but then I really had to readjust if I actually wanted to not only have a successful business, but have a successful life.

Yeah, I'm assuming you get asked this a lot, but women, do you ever feel pressure or judged or whatever, critiqued because you don't have kids yet? And I think you don't want to have kids, is that correct?

Yeah, no, it is. So I wanna actually hit on all of those because each that you mentioned, pressured, judged, or critiqued. So let's stick with pressured, judged, or critiqued, 'cause those are very distinct flavors. Yes, yes. So at this stage, I don't get asked as much anymore because I've been talking about it so consistently and trying to be as loving and just straight up as possible about the fact that I've never wanted kids. And real about the fact that I chose consciously or unconsciously a man who already had a child. So some part of me clearly wanted to be a stepmom because I am. And I love my stepson and he's awesome. So there's that. But I've never wanted to have my own biological kids.

Why is that, do you think?

You know, I've also never wanted to get married. I just think that we're all kind of born with these innate desires and sometimes we adopt the expectations of our family, of society, of the culture that we grew up in. For whatever reason, I feel like I popped onto this earth with a very clear inner compass of the things that I would like to explore or learn or experience and also a very clear compass of those things which I just am not interested in. I don't not want it for other people. It's almost like when you go to a beautiful buffet, right? And you walk up and you're like, oh my goodness, there's these vegetables and oh, there's these desserts and these possibilities. You don't necessarily take from every option that's there. You're naturally to some things over the other. And so in my life, I've always known what I want to go after and the little plate that has have children and the little plate that's like, Get married. I just was like, that's not for me. It's not my path. And so earlier on in my life, I had many people tell me that I'm making the worst mistake ever, that I'm gonna regret it.

Both marriage and baby, not having babies and not being married.

Mostly babies. Yeah, yeah. Mostly babies was that I was gonna, you know, reach some age and just absolutely hate myself and like it would be the biggest mistake of my life that I was gonna die alone. And I'm like, I'm gonna die alone anyway.

Well done, that's exactly right.

We're not holding hands, dying with someone, crossing over. We're not, unless, you know, God forbid a plane goes down, right. So there was that in terms of, so the feeling judged about it and criticized. Let's go into those pockets because that's interesting to me. I have had folks, and I can understand this, so I do understand it, but I think that there is just room to explore it and have a discussion when it comes to having a conversation around product Having a conversation around business growth, having a conversation around priorities. You know, and people can be very bold and courageous on like an Instagram comment where they wouldn't be nearly so, you know, if you were sitting across the table and just having a conversation, it was like, well, it's easy for you to say. Those of us that have kids, and I'm like, now all of a sudden, anything that comes out of my mouth is all of a sudden without merit because I have not given biological birth to a child through my vagina. Like really? Is that where we're gonna take this? Oh, and by the way, let's take a look at other folks that I have worked with who have seven kids, eight kids who say, oh, I found value in this principle and here's how I made this idea work in the context of my life. So I think that it's It's really interesting to have someone judge another person for their choices. You know what I mean? So I think that it's-- so how.

Do you handle being judged for that or for anything?

Oh, I give absolutely no attention. F's.

Right, yeah. I don't care.

I don't because, you know, the more you care about what other people think, the more they own you.

More power they have over you.

Yeah, and it's like, I want people to win. that's who I am as a person. I want people to win. I want them to be well. I want them to be successful. If there's anything that I could possibly share that even a tiny nugget of what I share helps them become more of who they want to be, then I feel I have done my job successfully. Do I have all the answers? Absolutely not. No way. No one has all the answers. But I do believe that what we create in our company and the the programs we put together and the things that we share help people find their own answers. So I don't honestly, I don't care. I really don't care because if someone is gonna take the time to either make that comment or that judgment, my perspective would be that there's something in their own life that's not working that puts them in that position of feeling a sense of pain or feeling like they have to judge someone else to justify what's happening in their own life. I just don't think that gets any of us anywhere.

So what do you do when people are judging you online? Do you just delete, do you just leave it and don't respond? Do you just say thank you for the feedback and move on?

It depends, I think, contextually. If someone has a different opinion and they express it respectfully, amazing. If someone's being hateful and trying to incite other people into a space of negativity and there's no basis in fact, there's no desire to have a meaningful conversation. Again, depending on where it is, like we have a very, very clear and strong boundary in our programs. Like it's, there's like a zero negativity, zero drama, zero bullshit policy that we have because no one can learn if they're in an unsafe environment. And if you feel like, you know, expressing an or just kind of taking people down this drama-filled road, that's not why we're here. You know, in the context of my business, in the context of trying to help people gain skills and understandings, it's like if you want to go have contentious conversations.

Go do it with a group of people that you want to do it with.

Do it on your own page. Go do it on your living room, or go hold a community gathering. Invite people. Correct, or whatever. But not in the learning environment that that you have entrusted me to support you in. That's not about to happen. But on public pages, again, if it's just someone who actually just wants to have a meaningful conversation, which is, you know, the exception, not the rule, let's have that meaningful conversation. But if it's someone who's just looking to kind of take a dump in your living room and stir the shit, I'm like, nah.

Yeah.

Nah, not interested. So how do you navigate your relationship? Let's say, I don't know if Josh wants to get married or not, but if wanted to get married at some point. Like 10 years down the line, he was like, you know what? I just really want to be married. Would that be something you'd be open to or changing your mind about? And what if he's like, I really want to have another kid?

Yeah, we've had the kid conversation, so I'm very clear on that one. We've already, because I think that it's important, especially for couples, I think it's important to have those real conversations about- Early. Yes, so we tackled that one. And we talked about it and he was really loving and open with me. Like, hey, especially after being together 16 years in the early part, he's like, if you change your mind and want to have kids, I would love to have a kid with you. But he's like, but I don't feel the desire, like I have my son, do you know what I mean? He's a father already, so there was.

No- He's not pressuring you?

No, it was just more like the open invitation And then in terms of marriage, I don't like to say never to anything. I just like to be honest about my truth in this moment. But if there came a point in the future where my something in me goes like, I'm super into this, and he was like, I'm super into this too, let's do it, that very well could happen. And I'm super open with that. But what I love about our relationship is we throw it on the table, and we talk talk about it.

Everything.

Yes.

All the time. I think that's the best way to do it.

It's the only way because we human beings are complex and expecting another person to just capitulate to your desires or what you really, it's like it doesn't honor their individuality and I really believe that there is a way to nurture and love and support the growth of the person that you love without pressuring them consciously or subconsciously to bend at your will.

Right, or manipulative or passive-aggressive in some ways to get them to do something they don't want to do.

Exactly. And for us, and I'll just, the last thing I'll say on this, in terms of a romantic relationship, the most important things to me, do we actually love each other? Do we respect each other? Are we loyal to one another? Love and passion, do we feel a sense of intimacy and connection? You know what I mean? It's like on a day-to-day basis, are we waking up so excited to be with one another? Not that it's always that way, but just hogging the vast majority of the time, is shit on track? And if it is, in my book, winning. You're winning, yeah.

Super winning.

Yeah.

90, 80% of the time, things are positive.

Correct. And pretty smooth. It's pretty good. And you still love that person, you want to be with them. So with Josh, it's like he is my human. He is my person. We love our lives together. And when our work takes us, we're like, okay, what's our next adventure together? When do we get to see each other? Or we switch our plans so that we have that night together if it was gonna be three weeks of going in different directions. And I'll be like, I will fly home, even if it's just for dinner or whatever. Do you know what I mean?

That's cool.

But that, to me, means more than Marriage certificate. Again, this is just my personal truth. This is my own personal truth, not for other people.

Of course. Just for me. Where do you think you'd be if you were single the last 10 years?

Oh my goodness.

Like would you would your business be as successful do you think? Again, we're just hypothetical.

I know it's hypothetical.

Do you think or do you think, I don't know, you'd be distracted or.

Where do you think you would be? It's a great question. I don't know the honest answer to to that. But I would be lying if I didn't say that the love and the depth of trust and connection that we have together, it's impossible that that hasn't positively impacted my business. Being single these past 10 years, sometimes I honestly will go out and about And I just, I look up and I'm like, thank you sweet Jesus, to that I am not kind of out on the scene. I just, I just, yeah. And like bless people that are and I, you know, I hope for everyone who wants love, to have love and to find love in the form that's good for them. But I'm just real happy. So I don't even know.

Do you think your business would be, you know, As profitable and successful.

You know, to be really honest, It could go either way. Like depending on how wild and crazy I got over those last 10 years, you know, I could envision a version where it wasn't, but I could also envision a version that it was actually technically more successful. Who knows?

Right.

Do you know what I mean? It could have been like-- Or financially successful.

Or something. Just because you know why? Because I didn't take those risks.

Exactly.

I just didn't take the break.

Exactly. That's exactly right. That's as possible, you know, as the other one.

Do you know any examples of individuals who have extremely successful brands, careers, or businesses who are single after 40, where they have healthy businesses and they are happy? Do you have any friends like that, like females, males like that who are single for-- Single? Not married, no kids, and they're just crushing and happy and fulfilled.

I don't. I was thinking about my friend, a friend that I have who is in her 60s who is not married but now recently has a boyfriend, but she also does have a child, but it's an adult child. And she's very happy and she's very satisfied with her life.

She was single for a while.

She was single for the, like, a very good portion of her adult life and only within the last year has a new boyfriend.

And she did really well.

And she did really well. And she's amazingly happy. So that's one that comes to mind. I'm trying to think of most of my other dear friends are in some type of partnership marriage.

Yeah.

Gotcha. Yeah.

I'm always curious about that because I think about the men that I admire the most, they're typically in a committed marriage or some type of committed relationship.

Yes.

And their businesses take off when they have that support.

Yeah.

As opposed to just the distractions that are out in the world. Yeah.

I think there's something settling that happens for us when we have someone that we want to devote our love to and invest in that person and who they are. I don't know. I like it. I do.

This book came about, I think, from an Oprah talk that you did three years ago, almost three and a half years ago, four years ago, is that what you said?

Yes. The idea I'd been talking about for a while. For like two decades.

But your mom taught you this when you were younger growing up.

Yep, yep.

But then you did a speech on it, which I saw, which was amazing.

Thank you.

Yeah. Here in LA. And everyone's been asking you to do a book for a decade, and you finally decided to do one. Why do you feel like you wanted to do one now, and why this topic, and not something else?

So the why now piece was a lot about trusting myself. You know, when I think any of us have opportunities knocking at the door, it can feel easy to be like, oh, I need to say yes because, you know, this window of opportunity community isn't going to be open long or this is going to help me, quote unquote, get ahead or, you know, I need to make sure I maintain my edge and get out there. And one of the things that's been a big lesson for me is to always trust my own timing and not the exterior pressures of the world. And when those calls kept coming in, like, we need a book from you. Let's do a business book. Let's do whatever book. I was like, no, it doesn't. It feels like there's a seed that's been planted and just like a real life plant, you that seed takes some time. You have to water it, there needs to be the right nutrients in the soil, needs to be the right weather, and then even as the seedling comes up out of the ground, you can't tug on it too fast to get it to bloom faster, you know what I mean? Like you have to nurture it and it has to take the time it takes to come into its full possibility. And that's how I felt with this book. I had known that there was a big idea I wanted to write about when Oprah and her team had asked me to speak at Super Soul Sessions, the first thought about what the title of the talk would be was Everything Is Figureoutable. And then I had appeared in my mental theater, this is your book. It wasn't even like it was a decision. It was like the seedling had come up and go, this is me! Now you are going to be ready to, you know what I mean? But the bigger reason in terms of an exterior reason, there's two things. One, we have a lot of challenges collecting actively happening right now. There's over 350 million people around the world that suffer from depression. Their suicide rates in the United States are at a 30-year high. That speaks nothing of the economic, political pollution, thinking about every level of inequality and injustice that impacts us. So we've got a lot of problems that both individually and collectively we need to solve. And I ran into a mutual friend of ours, Toby who runs Shopify. I think you know him. I was actually working on the manuscript at like a restaurant in New York and he walked in and I was like, oh my goodness, because he's from Canada. I'm like, what are you doing here? And we caught up and he's like, why are you writing a book? You're so busy with the rest of your business. It's not like you need to write a book. And this is what I told him. I said, Toby, honestly, I feel like if I were to walk out in the street right now and I got hit by a bus, this is the one idea that I would want to leave behind from every Marie TV, from everything I've ever done. I feel like if I can somehow communicate this idea in a book form in a way that people can really get that I could leave and go to that next chapter being like, peace, y'all, I did my thing, right? Like, I'm fine. I'm good. that's the reason I wanted to write this book, because I feel like every single one of us has such innate wisdom and so many capabilities that we're not even fully aware of. And that if I could write about this simple three-word phrase that has helped me at every single stage of my life and continues to help me to this day, I still use it every day, that it would give people a tool that could serve them regardless of where they come from. regardless of their age, regardless of their economic background, regardless of their cultural background, because it's so simple. It's not complex.

And in this final section, WNBA superstar Candace Parker talks about the power of having control over your emotions and actions so that you can respond rather than react in situations. How do you handle your emotions when you know you've made a mistake and you're being criticized for that mistake? Whether it be by a few people or by the online world or whatever it may be.

It's really funny because this last two or three years my mantra has been calm is a superpower. I always struggled because I feel as though in women's sports and women in general in business, wherever politics, If you lose your composure, you're considered crazy, irrational, out of control, whereas with a man, you're considered passionate, competitive, and all these things. And so I just determined, like, it's better to be calm anyway. Like, you look back on things, and usually it's when you go crazy. You're like, you know, I shouldn't have said that.

I shouldn't have done that.

I shouldn't have thrown that. I should, you know, you're apologizing for action. Usually not in action. And so that's kind of been my place of trying to reach that calm and be calculated and the people I respect the most, they think before they say. That's kind of what I've tried to develop. I'm not perfect at all. I'm probably nowhere near where I need to be, but that's kind of been my mantra.

Do you think you think the greatest athletes are more calm than they are reactive and passionate, let's say. Or, you know, Muhammad Ali was very passionate, very outspoken. You know, Conor McGregor, like these people are very outspoken and passionate. Do you think you can be greater by being more calm?

I think our society likes to put and label individuals like you meet people that are loud and, you know, say all these words, but what's the action that backs it up? And to me, It's the action. It's not necessarily what you do all before that.

Right.

Dame Lillard to me is one of.

The most... That guy's a machine.

He's a machine, but he's one of those leaders that just you can't tell on his face. And unfortunately for me, I was born with this problem that everything I think comes across my face.

I face the same way.

To the point where now my daughter 11 years old will be like, Mom, what's wrong? something comes on the television or something like that, like you think this. And I'm like, no, I don't think that, but I do, but I don't. So it's trying to get under control, having composure. And I've learned throughout that when the team or whatever organization you're a part of, as a leader, if they're hyped and their level is 10, it's your job to kind of bring the team down to an even keel level. And when everybody is down, it is your job to bring them up.

Yes.

A little bit, yeah.

It is your job. And so I feel as though as I'm getting older and as I'm maturing, I try to do that in whatever situation, whether it's the team, whether it's my family, I'm trying. It's not always.

I know, right?

It's not always, you know, it doesn't always work out, but at the same time, I think that's what I'm attempting to do.

Are you a student of sports psychology any chance? Or have you worked with sports cycling.

It's my minor in college. Yeah.

Do you work with any mindset coaches today or have you recently?

So I am huge into reading and then reaching out to those that write. Yeah, those authors. Joshua Medcalf wrote a book, Chop Wood Carry Water, which I read right before in 2016. Before We won our championship. What struck me about that book, and you know, not spoiler, but in the book it was talking about golf balls and how initially golf balls were smooth and when people would hit them, you couldn't control the direction that they were going. But they noticed that the more dented the golf balls were, as you hit them, they actually traveled better. So he used that as a metaphor of like humans and people in life. and individuals and like getting beat up and getting bruised, you actually will travel farther and better.

That's interesting.

And that just hit me in a way. You know, the whole book is just do the best you can and then, you know, live in the moment.

Yeah.

That's kind of, that kind of reached me. And so I'm huge into psychology. I read a million books. Like, I'm really into it. I love panels, I love podcasts. So that's kind of where I go.

For my sports psychology. Yeah, I read a book. I think it was called Champion's mindset, or maybe it's called train to win. I forget. I'll have to check it out again. But this sports psychologist said that you should always practice like it's a game and bring your energy to the game level. And then at game time, actually, like, calm down and just be more relaxed and calm and be in the flow. So I always thought that was interesting. It's like, raise it up in practice, bring it down before the game, because usually Before I learned that, I would get so hyped before a game. In the game. And I'm like, man, I'm tired. It's like you got no energy because you've just exhausted it. And warm-ups and you're not relaxed.

So true.

Have you ever done that where you're just like, ah, we're going to the.

Championship and then, whoo, I can't even lift my knees today. Yeah, we call that the first two minutes, you know, when you get out of breath in the first two minutes of the game. You haven't done anything. You know, the playoffs is, I remember we were in the WNBA Finals and I walked out there and it was a game five against Minnesota 2016. This is my first elimination, winner take all game. And I remember looking around and my heart was beaten, taking deep breaths, first two minutes, and then you get lost in your craft. So it's like literally it's just getting past those first two minutes of anxiousness and that's when you have the turnovers and the problems or whatever, and then you just settle in.

Mm-.

And you try to, you know, do what you've always done.

Yeah. Who is the most influential person in your life growing up?

Well, growing up, I idolized my brothers. My two older brothers, Anthony and Marcus, they're eight and 11 years older than me. So, I was the baby baby sister. And Anthony actually went on, played in the NBA, played for Toronto, played for the Cleveland Cavaliers for a while, and then and my middle brother is actually a radiologist. He wanted to be a doctor since he was five, and he went to medical school, went to Johns Hopkins, so we're really proud of him. So I had two amazing role models, just in not what their craft was, but just as people. Even to this day, anything I go through, any problem, obstacle, any choice I'm trying to make, I always reach out and talk to them. I mean, that's, you know, they really are my foundation.

What was the greatest lesson each one of them taught you?

My goodness, that's such a great, great question. Anthony is Mr. Devil's Advocate. So whether he is for it or whether he is against it, he is going to ask you the other side. That is my brother. So now when I'm thinking, and, you know, I think I watched like an old Full House episode where it talked about your conscience and how eventually it becomes your own as opposed to your parents telling you're not supposed to do stuff. That's my conscience now. I hear Anthony and now it's my voice where I'm like, okay, so what if this? What is the other side? And so Anthony kind of, I joke with him that he would be the one that would play devil's advocate to winning the lottery or something like that. He's that type. But I would say that that's the lesson from Anthony. And then from Marcus, he is one of those guys that is just so certain on what he wants and he will do in work for anything. And he said he wanted to be a doctor at five years old. And he worked and stayed motivated and long hours, you know, push through adversity, everything to become a doctor. And so I think just watching them operate the way their fathers, their husbands, it really is inspirational for me.

Yeah, that's cool. I love that you are a TikTok star through your daughter. And I love the relationship you guys have together where you're having jokes and playing around a lot on your social media. I think everyone should follow you guys there. What was that like being a mom in a career that I guess most women don't have kids at that age when they're trying to become great as an athlete in the WNBA that early. What was that like for you, being a young mom while being the face of the WNBA? How did you manage that? And how do you manage this?

I remember it was coming off of 2008. We won the national championship, won Olympic gold medal. We lost in the WNBA semifinals, Western Conference finals on a last second shot. Anyway, I could still see it. And I remember I had just won Rookie of the Year in MVP and I was in San Antonio and I remember I started feeling a little sick. I was like, okay. And my best friend was the first to find out. Like I told her that I was expecting. We were all excited. I was supposed to go to Russia that year to play overseas. But obviously we wanted to wait to tell everybody or whatever. The first reactions I got were so disappointing to me. It was almost more of like, how could you do this to us as fans? Not within the organization, but just the reaction that I got from others of like, oh, she's done. She's washed up. She's not gonna be able to come back.

She's after your first year in the league.

This is after my first year. I became a young mom and let me give you some history. I've always wanted to be a mother. That has been what I feel as though I was born to be. I was playing dolls till I was dang near 14. I just love the idea of having a little you running around. And so I always wanted to be a young mom. So although I was surprised, I was extremely excited to have a daughter. But that wasn't the way it was accepted. And at the time, you know, I set my mind where I was like, I'm gonna come back and play.

On this date.

So she was born May 13th. I played on July 5th in a game. Two months later? Played two months later. Two months later. I was working out two weeks after I had her. I worked out my whole pregnancy.

Oh my God. Young and dumb.

You don't know. You're young and dumb.

I'll be back in two months.

Yeah, back locked up everything.

It was crazy. Oh my gosh. Two months later playing. Yes, and she honestly has been my entire inspiration, motivation, every single thing. Every day I wake up, I want her to know that I'm working for her. I want her to know that, you know, I love her and I want to set a great example. And honestly, the biggest thing that I would like to message I would like to get across is within parenting, within sports, we've got to change and shift the perception of athletes in parenting and being there because, you know, a number of times I would go go places and Layla wouldn't be with me and they would be like, Oh, well, who's watching Layla? Like, who's taking care of Layla? Like, who's whatever, but they're not asking LeBron or Steph or anybody or Dame Lillard or whatever. And I think it's so important for fathers to be there as well and to be present. And we're seeing now paternity leave, and we're seeing guys like Jimmy Butler miss his Miami Heat debut to be there for the birth of his daughter. We're seeing how hands-on Steph Curry is. And so, I think for me, it's, you know, the amount of support that I've had from LA Sparks, the amount of support I've had from my family, I'm lucky because as a working mom, my organization allows me to bring my daughter along. That's cool. I was a nursing at halftime of games.

No way.

Yeah, it was just kind of the way it is. And so we just, we've grown up.

Me and Layla have grown up together. Thank you so much for listening. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's show with all the important links. And also make sure to share this with a friend and subscribe over on Apple Podcasts as well. I really love hearing feedback from you guys, so share a review over on Apple and let me know what part of this episode resonated with you the most. And if no one's told you lately, I want to remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.