721 Charlamagne Tha God on Success, Anxiety, and Mental Health

This is episode number seven two one with New York Times best selling author Charlemagne the God. Welcome to the School of Greatness.

My name is Lewis Howes, former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur and each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today.

Now let the class begin. Plato said, nothing in the affairs of men is worthy of great anxiety and Ralph Waldo Emerson said sorrow looks back, worry looks around and faith looks up. We've got an important interview today with Charlemagne Tha God, who is best known for being the co host of the nationally syndicated hip hop iHeartradio program called the Breakfast Club. He is also a massive social media influencer and executive producer with his own production company See the God World and co host of the popular podcast Brilliant Idiots. He is the author of the New York Times bestseller Black Privilege. Opportunity Comes to those who create it and the new book Shook one Anxiety Playing Tricks on Me. And in this interview we go deep guys. We talk about how his struggles with anxiety and mental health led him to want to start opening up and writing about this book and doing therapy. Also, why Men need to take off their Mask and talk about Mental health more. He discusses the pressures that social media tends to have on us and what it does to us, and how to be authentic and true to yourself when the odds are stacked up against you. It's gonna be a powerful one. It's gonna shake you up in a powerful way. Make sure to take a screenshot of this right now, Tag mewish at Shaw the God on Instagram and let us know what you enjoyed most about this interview while you're listening to it.

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Big thank you again to our sponsors and I'm excited about this one because we dive in deep right away. And no matter what you're dealing with, I want to let you know that you're not alone. There are people that can support you. It's time to open up and share with other people and not allow anxiety or depression to make you suffer in pain anymore. Start talking about it and I think you'll be a lot more inspired after listening to this interview with the one and only Shah the God.

Welcome, everyone, back to the School of Greatness podcast. We've got my man, Charlamagne the God.

Louis in the house. What's up, my brother? Thank you for having me, man.

Glad you're here. Gary Vee connected us about a year ago, I think, when your last book, Black Privilege, came out and we tried to make it happen, but then you were running around the world and selling millions of books and we made it happen now.

Yes, man. Finally. I mean, I feel like I believe in divine God's divine timing.

Yeah, timing.

Yeah. Everything happens when it's supposed to happen.

And this book is awesome, man. It's called Shook One. Anxiety playing tricks on me. Make sure you guys pick it up right now. Powerful stuff. I mean, you open up in a big way in this. You talk about anxieties and fears and insecurities and all sorts of things. Masculinity and what it means to be a man. I mean, everywhere you go there.

Yeah, because I feel like it's weird, man. I turned 40 this year.

40?

Yeah.

And I started going to, like, therapy last year because I just was starting to get overwhelmed and I was starting to question everything.

And what were you questioning?

Just life in general. You know, I was doing. I was guilting myself a lot. Like, a lot of why am I here? Why am I. Who I am. Why did I. Why am I so blessed? You know, I don't have any college degrees. I don't necessarily have a particular skill set. Like, my mother was a teacher growing up that made $30,000 a year. My father did construction. I grew up in a single wide trailer in Mont's Corner, South Carolina, on a dirt road. And the only reason I'm in the position I am is because I believed I could be here. But then it's gotta be a little bit more than that, right? And then, like, everything feels so surreal. And I think that I'm so used to pressure, and I'm so used to always being under the gun, so to speak, that when everything felt calm and peaceful and serene, when there was no pressure, when there was no pressure, I was like, okay, when's the shoe gonna drop?

What's wrong?

Yeah. And I really was on some Chicken Little, the sky is falling type shit. And, you know, I got diagnosed with anxiety nine years ago, but I never did anything to deal with it. And when I go back and I think about all the times I've had panic attacks, anxiety attacks throughout my life. It started when I was probably, like, 9 or 10. And I remember them up until that point in 2009, when the doctor finally said, you have anxiety, you had a panic attack. You know, what's the problem? But I didn't do anything about it. And the reason I didn't do anything about it was because it's not cool.

To do that, or it's.

Well, no, it was all right. Two times I've been to the hospital in my life thinking I was having a heart attack, right? And the first time I went was, like, 2007. It was the day Pimp C died. Pimp C from ugk. Rest in peace, Pimp C. And I'm like, hypochondriac. Like, I'm the type of person that if I see something happen to somebody, I think it's gonna happen to me. So the day he died and they just found him laid out in a hotel room, and they didn't know exactly why he died yet in my mind, he had a heart attack. So I just was thinking that all day long, I'm gonna have a heart attack. I'm gonna have a heart attack. I'm gonna have a heart attack.

Real, though, a panic attack.

Yes.

Anxiety attack. Yeah.

So I checked myself into the emergency room.

Wow.

The doctor checks my heart, the EKG and all of that. And he's like, yo, you're fine. You got an athlete's heart. He was like, do you have anxiety? It sound like you had a panic attack. And I was like, no. And he was like, did you have any caffeine or energy drink? I said, oh, I had a Red Bull earlier. So I blamed it on the Red Bull.

That was your excuse? Yeah, yeah.

Then two years later, I had just gotten fired from my fourth radio gig. So I'm like 31, 32 years old. I'm back living at home with my mom. My daughter's like two. My now wife is back living at home with her parents. And I remember just driving down interstate in South Carolina I 26 and just feeling like I was having another heart attack. And like, I went to the hospital and same thing. You got an athlete's heart. Yo. Do you have anxiety? No. Sound like you had a panic attack. Well, no, I don't think that's what you stressed out about anything. I'm like, hell, yeah. So once again, I could point to something else.

I got fired, I lost my job. I'm thinking about my kids.

Yes. But then, so in my mind I'm like, all I gotta do is get back in position, get another radio job.

I'll be fine.

Everything will be fine. But that happens. Life turns out great. New York Times bestselling author, nationally syndicated radio personality. Daughters are great. Life is good. But I still feel like it's about to be a home invasion. When was this in my house? This was last year.

Last year?

Yeah, last year. Like last year. I mean, it's been getting overwhelming the past couple of years, but, I mean, it's a lot of fat reasons for that, though. Like, I'm the guy who has almost been jumped in front of the radio station. Dudes walk up on me with the camera, punch me in the back of the head just to try to embarrass me. Because they feel like I'm always trying to embarrass people on radio. I go across the street to the ATM to get some money out the atm, and me and a dude get into a fight. Dude just walks up on me and swings on me for no reason. Getting in altercations with different rappers when we're out and about. So it's just like that level of PTSD was developed for a certain reason. But then you put that on top of the PTSD of just growing up selling crack and getting guns pulled on you and getting in fights in the hood. Like that never ever, ever leaves you. Like, never.

What's that feeling? Is it kind of like you're always having to look behind you to see what's happening.

Always. I mean, imagine. Imagine going to the Walgreens, leaving the Walgreens, driving, hearing bass, looking in your rearview mirror, it's a car behind you and you stop at the light and immediately you're looking in this mirror, you're looking in that mirror. You're looking to make sure ain't nobody running up on the side of your car. And then you pull off and then the car gets on the side of you just cause it's trying to pass you. And you're in my mind, I'm bracing myself like, oh my God, here come the gunshots. And that's based off it's just a normal car. It was freaking logic. Not really logic, but somebody that looks like some kid that looks like logic, just driving, you know, playing his music.

16 year old kid, just like having fun.

Yeah.

But I've had dreams where people pulled up on the side of me and shot at me. And you know, I've had guns pulled on me in real life.

Wow.

And like, you know, when you looking at social media every day and people are telling you, I'm gonna kill you, I wish you'd die. Oh. All the time that's happened, that happens constantly. So somewhere in my mind, my brain just got wired to think that the worst was going to happen. Like this gotta be all a dream. Like life can't be this sweet, you.

Know, what if life could be this sweet? And what if people weren't out to get you, but they were out to support you? And what if they were here to protect you and lift you up and celebrate you?

Those people are there, you know. But one thing that I've always spoken to my therapist about is the fact that why do we focus on the negative? I don't know. It's something I'm trying to rewire my brain to do. Like we focus on the negative. You're absolutely right. Like it's people that love me and support me, pray for me, you know, tell me I got friends that always like, I'm constantly lifting you up in prayer and I'm lifting them up in prayer so they are there for me. But for some reason, human beings, we tend to gravitate towards the negative instead of the positive. And that's, that's the weird part for me. And that's why anxiety is so dangerous for somebody like me. Because I truly believe your thoughts become things. And I feel like the things that I want to happen in my life, I constantly think about the things that I don't want to happen I try not to think about at all. But that negativity is constantly bombarding your brain. That negativity is constantly filling your brain. And that's what causes me to have panic attacks. Because I feel like if I hold on to this negativity too much, if I think about it too much, then eventually I'm going to make this negativity manifest.

Absolutely. Like you have in the past by going to the emergency room twice.

Yeah.

Stressing out.

And stressing out. Yeah, yeah. Letting all that cortisone off in your body, you know, stress. Yeah, absolutely.

So what have you done in the last year since you've learned about this and really delve into it through therapy, through practice, through. I'm assuming you might have some type of meditation practice or awareness practice now what are the tools you've learned to support you and not having it take your body over and your mind over, but actually letting it go.

Therapy has been the best thing for me. And the reason therapy has been the best thing for me is because therapy to me is like, you got like this real junky closet. And like you take boxes into your closet because some things you gotta pack up for goodwill and just get rid of them. You know what I mean? This don't serve me anymore. It'll serve somebody else. And then you take the stuff you do want and you hang it up nice and you fold it neat. And now you even got room for new stuff and you arrange that. So that's what therapy is for me. Cause I just feel like. I just feel like I have 40 years of a lot of baggage and 40 years of a lot of bullshit, you know, that I never addressed. You know, I suppressed it. I acted like it didn't exist. I've never been afraid to unlearn any BS that I've learned in my life, you know, But I feel like sometimes you just gotta take those old blueprints and rip em up and not be afraid to start anew. And that's what I feel like happened from 39 was like the beginning stage of that process. But then like 40 hit. And I remember, you know, at 40 I was on vacation, I was in Anguilla with my family and friends. And you know, I was drunk off some tequila and like my wife played this video of like all my friends doing like a happy birthday video to me and I'm like crying like. But I could feel my evolution. I could feel myself going into a new realm spiritually, you know, at 40, that moment. Yeah. And I was thinking, I was like, yo, did this happen at 30? Did this happen at 20? Cause I don't remember. But at 40, I absolutely, positively felt it. It was like I was exiting my body and stepping into a new body just in another dimension. That's just the best way I could explain it.

What was the biggest lesson you learned in that moment or the biggest awakening in that moment?

That everything I thought I was, I'm not.

What did you think you were?

I thought I was.

Fearless your whole life. Or like the last decade or my.

Whole life pretty much. Cause you know when you hit the. When you get those panic attacks and those panic attacks hit you and you know, you can like, taste. It's like a taste that anxiety puts in your mouth and, you know, the shortness of breath and everything, but you still rise to the occasion. Like you. I got friends that have the type of anxiety that paralyzes them. Cripple them, cripple them. They not leaving the house, nothing. I have those moments and then I'm like, fuck that. Like, we get off. I gotta get to it. I always chalked that up to being fearless. But then I realized a lot of things that I've been doing, I've been doing them because I was scared. Like, I feel like my father would always tell me that if I don't change my lifestyle, I'm gonna end up in jail, dead or broke, sitting under the tree. That scared me. Being in jail, being dead or being broke under the tree gave me a type of anxiety that made me say, I gotta do whatever it is I need to do to be successful, to not be those things, to not be those things. And I was always wise enough to learn from the mistakes of other people. That's what they say. Smart people learn from their own mistakes. Wise people learn from the mistakes of others. I was wise enough to learn from the mistakes of other people. And, you know, just realizing at a very early age that my father was right. When I started to go to jail myself.

41 days. Is that right?

Yeah, for the first time. But then it was just like weekend stints after that. Cause I would just get locked up for selling dope. Like, one time, me and my pops was locked up together. Cause they stopped him and he had, like, less than a gram of coke. And then they came to search my mom's house, and they went to the trash can and found some residue. And it was less than a gram of coke with me. So they had us both sitting in a jail cell.

Cause they thought you were a teenager or you're.

Was I maybe late teens, early 20s, maybe 20, 21, maybe. It was just like I had all of these different experiences, man. And it's like when I started to go to jail and see people around me go to prison and see people around me actually get killed, like, that scared me. Those three options scared me. Gave me super anxiety, super panic attacks. I refused to be the people. I had older cousins that I thought was so cool, but they were broke, sitting under the tree, doing nothing with their life. I refused to be that guy. Like, I would have literal panic attacks, literal anxiety, thinking about.

Thinking about that.

Yeah. So that made me. I'm gonna go get a job. I don't care that I got felonies. I don't care. Have you ever been convicted of a felony? Yes, on the application. So what? Never stopped me.

What were the first jobs you got?

First job I got was at a company called Industrial Acoustics Company. It was a warehouse. I got fired after about a month. I remember the supervisor, her name was Gayle Cobb. I never forget it. And it was my fault. They had like this big platform in, like a field. And I would get on the field, I would get on the platform and act like I was on stage and just be making the people I was working with laugh. And I remember one time, Gayle was just sitting out there just looking at me, and she called me, and then she was like, you know, you don't fit in here. Moving in another direction. All right, cool. Then it was. Where else did I work? I worked at a flower garden. That was the next job I worked, flower garden. And I worked there for like a week. Like hell, man.

Hell yeah.

110 degree heat. Oh, man, South Carolina. I'm the only black guy. Damn near everybody. All the other black guys are like, bad off. Like maybe crackheads. And then there's a bunch of Mexicans. And then the school bus is driving by and they like, oh, shoot, look at Larry. You know what I mean? Cause that's my middle name. But they called me Larry in school. And then I worked at a telemarketing place called Paragon Solutions. I worked at Taco Bell for a couple weeks, you know. Cause my sister was the manager there. So she hired me, fired me after two weeks. I worked at a clothing store in the mall called Demo. And then I stumbled across radio by.

How old were you?

How old? I. I'm so bad with that stuff now.

When I stumbled, mid-20s.

No, it was like 98. So I might have been 20. 20, 21. Yeah. Cause I.

20 years ago.

Yeah. Cause I started off as an intern in 98. Yeah, I started off as an intern in 1998 and I used to wanna rap like most brothers in the hood. Cause you know when you're from the hood, the people that you see who look like you are usually black. I mean, usually in athletics or entertainment. Yeah.

Playing ball or whatever.

Yeah, yeah. So I wanted to rap. I was in this recording studio and I met this dude named Willie Will. And Willie Williams was a radio personality in Charleston, South Carolina. So I just asked him, I said, yo, how'd you get in the radio? And he was like, I went down there and I got an internship. And I was like, it was that easy? And he was like, yeah. So that's what I went and did.

Went and got an internship.

Went and got an internship in South Carolina. In South Carolina at like the local radio station Z93JAMS in South Carolina in 1998. And I mean, that's how I got my start, really. And radio.

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You felt like I kind of made it in radio, like I've got my own gig. Like they're. They want my opinion. I'm in a bigger station. Like things are happening.

I think I may have felt like that last year. And that's one of the reasons.

Not until last year.

Not until last year. And that's what scared the shit out of me.

20 years.

20 years.

And then you got it in the last year.

Yeah. Cause I mean you got. I'm a guy that's been fired four times from radio. I've been fired four times.

Why you've been fired?

First time I absolutely deserved it. I was working at Hot98.9 in Charleston, South Carolina. I had left Z93 jams, started working at Hot98.9 and truth be told. I was just feeling myself, man. You know what I'm saying? I was a young kid. I was 20 minutes. Yeah, I was 20 minutes from Mont's Corner, which is my hometown. We used to go to the club 10:15 deep. All my boys were still selling dope, so they had the nice cars. And like I was on the radio and we was immortalizing the hood by shouting out the hood. And it's just like I was really feeling myself, man. Like to the point where I remember going to this club called the Nightlife in Kings Creek, South Carolina and pulling up to this club and seeing my name on the marquee and being like, oh shit, my name's on a marquee. Like I never saw that, mind you.

You were just a radio guy. You weren't like the artist.

Yeah. And it wasn't like a. Now when I look, it's not a marquee, it's just like a sign. Bullshit sign that you see in front of a juice roll.

Right, right, right.

You know what I'm saying?

Oh, it was like a sign on the ground. It wasn't like the.

Yeah, it wasn't no huge. It was like in life. Oh yeah. And it said Charlamagne tha God. And I remember this young lady saying, I'm gonna do what I'm gonna do whatever charlamagne to God tells me to do. So they was really treating me like a celebrity. Celebrity. And I remember that young lady definitely provided groupie love. It's like I remember thinking to myself, when I got fired, I got fired because of that situation. And the reason I feel like I got fired because of that situation is because I felt like God was upset with me because I was misusing the platform. He had the power that gave me. Yeah, yeah. So that was like a very humbling experience for me.

And the next three times you got fired?

The next time I got. I got hired by the big DM 101.3 in Columbia, South Carolina. After I got fired from Hot 9089 in Charleston, I got a mentor. His name is Dr. Robert Evans. He, him and his son DJ Bless own a record label called Neversoldeep Records. But Dr. Robert Evans is such like a well rounded man because he was a 15 year NYPD veteran on the police force. He was a medical doctor and he was like a millionth degree black belt in vijitsu. He still trains vijitsu to this day. So it's like when I got fired from doing radio, he was just like, don't worry about it. We Got this. So I made this CD called Charlemagne the God Concrete Champ. And it was all the artists from Never so Deep with me talking. And it was structured like a radio show. And we started passing that out to all the different radio stations throughout South Carolina. And I ended up getting hired at a radio station in Columbia called the Big dm, which was the biggest station in South Carolina. It was 100,000 watts. So I worked there. And that's when like I really started to develop the celebrity interview aspect of my game. And then that station went from an urban AC station. I mean, went from a hip hop and R and B station to an urban AC station. But they bought the competition, which was Hot 103.9 in Columbia, South Carolina. I was working there Monday through Friday, seven to midnight. And Wendy Williams was syndicated on that station.

The Wendy Williams show or.

Yeah, the Wendy Williams Show.

Before the talk show.

Before. Yeah, before her daytime show, she had a radio host and she was syndicated in Columbia. Her and her husband used to come down and I just used to show them love. Like, you know, we would get them weed, they buy us bottles and bottles in the club. Like they would just show love. Yeah. And I remember we just built a relationship. And they asked me to come to do their. They asked me to come to a party. I'm skipping a lot. I'm skipping one good part. Yeah, Wendy used to come on and she was syndicated.

She used to come on and used to interview her.

Well, she used to come on before me in the afternoons and I used to come on at nights. My man who I used to do the night show with, his name was Bill Black, Big Sexy. He left to go to Georgia. So everybody was like, all right, the night show is eventually going to be Charlamagne's. What happened was Wendy was syndicated in the afternoon. My then my program director at the time, he was on in the afternoon. He hated that they moved him. And nobody was really feeling Wendy in the afternoon at the time. So people complained. They ended up moving Wendy's time slot to 10pm to 2am I used to love listening to this show. Cause it was big market radio. I didn't get that. This was before the Internet, so to speak. I mean, Internet was there, but you couldn't really like just tune in and listen to shows. So they started just rerunning the same show over and over. And I was like, why are they keep rerunning the same show? So I didn't know if it was coming from New York or if that was something that was happening in South Carolina. So I called Wendy's husband and told him. And he was like, really? He was like, I'm coming down. He came down, heard it for himself, went back to New York, raised hell with them. And then it was a club in Columbia, South Carolina. All of this coincides. There was a club in Columbia, South Carolina, where the guy. It was always alleged that the guy was putting date rape drug in girls. Drugs.

Oh, geez.

The manager of the club. But nobody could ever prove it.

Sure.

So one time, this girl actually pressed charges on the guy. Wow. So the guy got arrested. They had his mug shot up on Richland county website. I saw it. I took the mugshot, put it on my MySpace page. Wrote this whole thing about how we need to really ask ourselves if we should be supporting this establishment. We've been hearing about this for years now. This guy got arrested. The police went to his house. They found they were drug drinks. All of this is in the mugshot, in the police report. This guy sues me. The club sues me. Cause they were advertised at the radio station.

Oh, man.

Radio station settles with them for $2,000. Wow. And demotes me to one day a week on Saturday nights. I was on Monday through Saturday. They demote me to one day a week Saturday nights because of that.

Cause you spoke up. You shared your voice.

Yeah. And Kev actually heard about it, Wendy's husband. Because of another young lady I used to work with at the station named Venom. And so he called me up, but he thought they demoted me because I gave him the information and then repeated the show.

Yeah.

So he was like, yo, man, come to New York next week. And I'm like, all right. So I got on a plane. Me and my boy, DJ Frosty, we went to New York. And we was in the club with Wendy and Kev. And Wendy was like, yo, Charlamagne, what's up? She was like, yo, come on my show tomorrow. I'm like, excuse me, the radio show?

Yeah.

Say what you want me to do. What? He's like, come on my show tomorrow. I'm like, you want me to come on your show? Okay, I'll be there.

Yeah.

So you can't tell me stuff like that. I got a DJ Khaled level of annoyance. So I'm calling Kev all next day. Like, yo, when he told me to come on our show, when he told me come on the show, when he told me come on our show, when he told me to come on the show, he was like, hi. He said, I'll call you right Back. He called me back. He's like, go up there.

Your husband.

You're talking.

Yeah. So I go up there, and I was there for 25 minutes. And that night, Wendy. Well, Wendy's husband was like, yo, Wendy's looking for a co host. She's trying to make the transition to television. You know, she don't want no comedian. She wants somebody that's from radio, that's edgy, like, you fit the bill.

Wow.

We can't pay you, but we can give you a place to stay. I'm like, cool. Cause I recognize opportunity when there's not a paycheck attached to it.

Sure.

So I was out on the next thing, smoking.

You were in New York at that moment?

Yeah.

And you stayed there?

Well, I went back home. Got to tell my girl, like, look, this is what it is. And my mindset was, you know, it's my girl. We love each other. So if it's meant to be, it'll be. And we together now with three kids. So it was meant to be. So I moved to New York, and I moved to New York, and I worked with Wendy for a year and a half. Let me get to my second. My second firing was from the station that I had just left, hot 1039. Cause they were still letting me do one day a week. But then after about two months of coming back and forth, flying back and forth with Wendy, they told me I couldn't have my cake and eat it, too. So that's my second firing. So I'm gone. So I'm working with Wendy. I worked with Wendy for, like, two years and a half.

Not paid.

I didn't get paid for, like, a year and a half. So I think I was on payroll for like, a solid year before I got fired again for the third time.

So how were you making Monday when you were working?

I wasn't. I wasn't. I would fly home to South Carolina, do some parties, host some parties, come home with a little pocket. Yeah, yeah, that's it. But, I mean, I had a place to stay. That's all I could ask for.

Free.

Catch the bus into the city. Take advantage of the perks of being Wendy's co host. Getting free clothes, free food here and there. Free food here and there. You know what I mean? Eventually start working your band, sell that stuff. Eventually start hosting parties, you know, doing a little ghost writing for people and things like that. Like, as far as, like, other talent.

Yeah.

And that was it. And so I worked with her. I remember I got fired November 2, 2008.

She fired you?

No, what happened was it was a combination of things. Wendy's assistant at the time, her name was Nicole Spence, good friend of mine to this day. She actually sued Wendy's husband for sexual harassment and making it a hostile work environment and things of that nature. She ended up getting a settlement for that. And I think that that was all backlash. Plus, like, it was a new rating system called PPM in the market. And, you know, PPM caused Wendy's numbers to drop, you know, so she went from like number one to number, like 25 in the market. And it was just a combination of things. So they just got rid of like Wendy's whole team, except for the board out. But they also fired like 20 people from the actual station that day. So it was just kind of like a mass.

You were in it.

Layoff. And I was in it. I was outta radio for like six, seven months. But I was cool because my wife had a job and she was holding it down, going to work. My daughter had just been born June of that year. I was home with her.

Yeah, you were in South Carolina now, back then.

Well, I'm still in Jersey. We still in Jersey at the time. Gotcha. Still in Jersey at the time.

Your wife moved up or your girl moved up?

Yeah, my girl moved up. I'm skipping a lot. There's a lot that happened.

She had moved to Jersey eventually.

Yeah, she moved to Jersey first she was living in Brooklyn with her grandma and then she eventually moved to Jersey when I got put on the payroll and I could afford to get us a little apartment in Jersey. Wow. And then.

And then what was the next? Six months?

No work.

Six months no work. Being at home with my baby, staying afloat by doing the hood State of the Union web series with my man, little Duvall, that kept my name out there, Angela E. Who's my now co host, she would bring me on her satellite radio show and have me do stuff on that.

And what year is this now?

This was 2009.

So nine years ago.

Yeah. And then Vlad TV. Vlad TV didn't come into play yet. But this was 2009. Yeah, 2008. Going into 2009. And then like around April or May of 2009, I got offered the morning show position at 100.3 to beat. They wanted me to do my own morning show based off pretty big. Yeah. Based off what they had heard me doing with Wendy. And I worked there for like six months, seven months. And I had great ratings. I was like number two in the city. And they Brought in a new program director named Boogie D. And Boogie D wanted to fire me. But the beauty of defiring was my last interview was with Beanie Siegel. Beanie Siegel had just put out a diss record to Jay Z and everybody. Nobody could believe it. Like, this was, like, the early stages of Twitter. So, you know, all of the artists were tweeting like, yo, I never thought I'd see the Dave Beanie Siegel going in on Jay Z. Yada, yada, yada. So I'm like, damn, I'm on the radio in Philly. K Slay is playing Beanie Siegel Beef record in New York. I gotta get Beanie in the studio tomorrow on the phone. I got him on the phone. He called in. That call's available online on YouTube. And he's just going in on Jay Z and talking about all his issues and problems with Jay Z. And that interview went crazy viral. Like, super, super, super viral. So much so that Jay Z was on tour, and they asked Jay Z about it at the press conference for the tour, and he had to acknowledge it. And then I come into work that Monday, and I hear those infamous words where moving in another direction.

You're fired.

You're fired. You know, And I'm like, you just.

Had the biggest, most viral interview of the country.

Yeah, And I had been killing on that station for a while. Like, I had been performing on that station. Like, I had other viral moments other than that one. So I was like, damn, why am I getting fired? But I didn't trip. I just sent out a tweet like, yo, thank you, Philly, for holding me down the last six, seven months. I appreciate y'. All. And, you know, by that time, I already had known. I knew the routine. So I did have an office. But I ain't keep nothing in it, you know, because I just never know. Never know. Even now to this day, that's part of the PTSD of being fired. I don't have an office at the Breakfast Club. Cause I just never know. Not saying I know that's I'm in a much better position now, much more job security now. But I just, you know, that's just how I felt. And when I sent that tweet out immediately, it was all of these headlines, Did Jay Z get Charlamagne? Tha God fired? Wow.

That's actually probably good for you. It was incredible because it got so much attention in these radio stations. I want to back this guy. I want to support him.

It just made me lodge it in life. And I always thought about when Wendy got fired from Hot 97, allegedly by P. Diddy. And how that just made her larger than life. And I'm like, I remember doing an interview with Vlad TV in 2009 and just saying. I said on the interview, like, man, you know, this is just the game of radio. And one hot second, another radio station's gonna come, you know, asking for my services. And this. I said, I don't know if Jay Z got me fired, but it's gonna read great in the book one day.

Yeah.

And that book is Black Privilege, and it did great. A New York Times bestseller, you know. So I was fired. I got fired from there. And then I was outta radio for a whole year. That's when I had to move back to South Carolina. Cause I just couldn't afford to live in Jersey. You know, me and my wife at this point, my wife couldn't fit all the bills anymore. My wife had to go stand in front of the eviction people, you know what I mean? And explain why we couldn't pay the rent and stuff like that. And what was so funny, the day I got fired from Philly, I had all my stuff already packed in my truck because we were about to move into a townhouse in Philadelphia.

No way.

Yes. We were about to literally move into a townhouse in Philadelphia. The day I got fired, I had my stuff in the truck. Cause after I got off the air, I was gonna go to the townhouse and start unloading stuff. And I got fired that same exact day. And so we moved back to South Carolina. And that's when I had that major, major, major panic attack. And in my mind, I was just like, yo, as long as I get back in position, I'll be okay. And I ended up getting back in position, which was with the Breakfast Club.

When did that start?

November of 2010. So I got fired.

Wow.

Around this time in 2009. Cause it was Halloween. Cause I remember I had a Halloween party that Saturday in Philly. So Halloween was the 31st. So I must have got fired on like.

Like today.

The second. Yeah, like the first.

Like today.

Yeah. What's today? The 30th. Yeah. So it had to be. Yeah, it had to be. Yeah, I got fired. And that's what I'm thinking. I'm trying to think. I'm sitting, putting the timeline together. I got fired in Philly. Yeah. And then I started the Breakfast Club around November of 2010. So it was a whole year.

So you've been there for eight years now.

It'll be eight years this December. Yeah. Wow, man. Eight years. It's November, December.

It's been a pretty amazing ride, huh?

It's absolutely been everything. No, I'm lying. It's been more than I ever could imagine it to be.

Well, how so?

Because I always knew that I'd be a naturally syndicated radio personality. When me and Envy and Angela Yee, you know, came together, I remember my man Cadillac Jack asking me, who would I want to do to show it? And I said, angela Yee. I didn't even think of Envy in the equation, but they added Envy in the equation because Envy is like the New York staple, the anchor, you know. And so they put us all together, and I knew we were going to be syndicated. Like, I just knew we were going to be a nationally syndicated radio show. It was just one of those things to where we. When they put us together. And the news of that hit, when the rumors of that started to hit, it was a big, big deal. And the fact that, you know, at the time, they had to fire a legendary radio personality named Ed Lover to make way for us. So, you know, they fired Ed Lover, and then they brought us in and it just became this, like, huge deal. And we did like a viral video basically saying, whose show is it? Because even though all of us.

You're all big personalities.

Yeah. And all of us come from the background of being co hosts and. And sidekicks. But then we've also had our own shows. I had my own morning show in Philly. Angela E. Had her own morning show on Shade 45, and we had his own afternoon show on Power 105. So we all came together and did this Broadway about whose show is it? And it was like we were arguing from the beginning. And I remember we put that out and it got like 700,000 views, some crazy, crazy number of views. And it's just like we just were rolling ever since, you know, we had our. The first year was a little rough because they were expecting instant ratings results because of what happened with the viral stuff that we did initially. Like when we first put that video out and everybody got all excited, but we didn't have that initials rating success, you know, that took a while to build and get there.

What's the hardest thing? Working with other big personalities and other driven people who have their own identities and ego. How do you manage it and handle it?

You just gotta learn to get out your own way as much as you think you're always right. And a lot of the times I am, you know, especially when it just comes to content and Stuff like that. You have to understand that it's a show, a collective group of people, and we want to do different things, and you gotta give in order to get. Like, if it's us three in this room, it's me, you, and it's Tiffany, and Tiffany wants to do something, and we ignore her every time. And then when we want to do something, Tiffany's not on board. That's our fault. So we just got to be on board with each other for certain situations. You know what I mean? If she got the topic she wants to talk about, even if I don't like the topic, give it a shot.

Yeah, yeah.

What's the least that can happen?

You never know.

Yeah, that's all. Same thing. If Envy wanted to talk about something and I don't like the topic, give it a shot. Same thing with me. If they don't like a topic that I brought up, just give it a shot. And I think that that's a formula that's pretty much worked for us, you know. Wow.

What's been the biggest lesson you've learned through the last 20 years of doing radio? You got fired from four different places. Now you've been at a place for eight years. You've gone through anxiety, PTSD. You talk about struggles of, you know, cheating and other things throughout the book that you talk about, which I thought were really powerful. What do you think has opened up the most for you in the last 20 years?

I think truly learning what it means to be yourself. What's it mean being authentic and true to you? Not authentic based off somebody else's standards of being authentic or being true to what other people think of you. Like, you know, I used to always say you don't want to become a caricature of yourself, but a lot of times it's almost impossible, especially if you're reading magazine articles about yourself or if you're looking at what people say about you on YouTube or any other social media. On iPhone. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or looking at what people say they like about you. Oh, I like Charlamagne. Cause he's this and he's that. He's the hip hop Howard Stern. Or, like, you get caught up in that shtick and you start doing dumb shit. Like, you know, that's when you start stimulating masturbation in interviews and talking, like, really wild and reckless to women and, you know, like, did you do that for a while? Yeah, I definitely had a little scratch of that. Definitely. I definitely had a stretch of suck a fart out your butt. You know, I Definitely had that mentality. Yeah. And it's because that's what I thought people liked.

And you'd say that.

Oh, 100%. Oh, yeah, that was my thing. I had a list. I had a top five list of women who I wanted to suck a fart out there, but just. Cause I thought that's what people liked. People liked from me. And then, you know, you got your wife checking you like, what are you doing? That's not even who you are and ain't even disrespecting me.

Yeah.

And you know, you like, ah, man, I'm getting. We gotta get this money. And then you thinking like, for the.

Ratings and for the show.

Yeah. And you're like, have I become that person? Have I become that person who is motivated by ratings and money and whatever else? And you think you're being yourself. Like, you really truly think you're being yourself. You're not. You're being a caricature of yourself. You're being what you think people want you to be. Like you're wearing a mask, you know, Mask of masculinity.

Yeah. Yeah.

So it's just like three. I can't wait to read that, by the way. So it's like three or four. Three or four years ago, I just realized I was moving all the way wrong, you know? Yeah.

What brought you that awareness? Was it your wife? Was it just other people saying stuff to you and saying, hey, man, this isn't you.

Combination.

Combination of all that you just not feeling good inside.

Not feeling good inside. Wife on my ass. Homegirls of mine, like, what's up with you?

You're different on radio than you are.

Yeah, exactly. You know, And I'm like, huh? And then you start to sit back and, you know, maybe. Maybe it's watching my daughter get older and, you know, having another daughter and realizing, like, you know, you gotta be the change that you wanna see in the world for your little girls, you know? I don't want my daughters to see me in studio doing this. Like, they're always asking questions, daddy, what do you do on the radio? And you wanna tell her, you know, I play jerk off simulation game. You know what I'm saying? That's not inspiring. Exactly. So it's just like I just started to really realize the power of the platform, which I always knew. I just think I got led astray just a little bit.

You feel like you're back on track now?

Oh, too much back on track.

And what's your mission moving forward in using your platform?

My mission Moving forward is just to empower. I really feel like your true purpose in life is service to others. I feel like I'm a public servant.

That's it, man.

You know what I mean? That's the only reason I'm here. I'm not here for anything else. I'm not here for money. I'm not here for, like, don't get me wrong, there's things that I want to do. Like, I can't wait to host a late night talk show on network television one day. I feel like I'm gonna definitely be in that space. Like, if there hasn't been a black guy doing that since Arsenio Hall, I feel like I'm gonna definitely be in that space. But right now, I have all the means and the resources to empower people. Like, I love it. Like, I love bringing new voices on the Breakfast Club that people haven't heard of, or voices that are really dope and helping them elevate their voice. Whether it's music, whether it's comedy, whether it's, you know, civil rights activism, whether it's business. Like, I just love empowering people. That's what gets me off. Like, I'm not even gonna front. Like, I love executive producing these TV shows and saying, yo, let's hire her, let's hire him. You know, I live for that. Like, I can't even tell you how much of a thrill I get from doing that. So I just feel like from here on out, my mission is service to others. That's what truly makes me feel good. Like, I like helping people. I like giving to people. That's what makes me feel good.

That's powerful. I think more people need to do that. Mental health, when did you start to really think that? Like, okay, I need to take control of mental health and start talking about it more and start embracing it and not think of it as something as, like, weak, but as something that's powerful for yourself this year.

Wow. Because last year, when I started the journey that became this book, I did not set this current book or the last one current book shook one. Anxiety playing tricks on me. My first book came out April of 2017. Black privilege. Instant New York Times bestseller. On New York Times bestsellers for, like, seven weeks.

Thousands of people at your tour stops.

I remember seeing that.

It was crazy, man.

And that's what got me so overwhelmed. Cause I remember being here in LA and, you know, feeling like, okay, I'm gonna smoke me some Indigo. Take this edge off. It ended up being Sativa. And the Sativa Made my anxiety go through the roof. So I'm, like, laying in this hotel room literally shaking. Like, I'm talking about, like, you were literally shaking. I could not stop shaking, like. And I just was thinking all the worst thoughts in the world. I'm gonna overdose off marijuana. I just got on the New York Times bestsellers list. People are gonna be saying, this stupid motherfucker just started the achieve a different level of success. And look at him. I already overdosed on drugs in la. And I'm like, you're not famous enough to overdose on drugs in la. You're not gonna trend on Twitter, like, dumb shit.

That's what your mind is saying.

Oh, it was going crazy. And I would, like, fall asleep and feel like these black shadowy hands was reaching up to grab me and pull me down. And I would jump up in a cold sweat. And my wife was high too, and she was laughing at me. And my wife.

You were scared?

Yeah. And my wife was like, you're not about to start running around naked on some Martin Lawrence shit, right? And I was like, I don't know. So I got dressed, put on my. I put my Timbs on. I'm laying in the bed and it's just like, I had this massive anxiety attack. And I was like, yo, why do I feel this way? And that's when I started to question everything. I started to question all my success. I started to question where I was. I started to question, am I truly putting the right energy out there? Am I really using my platform the way I need to use my platform? And I remember being on vacation in June, and I was so happy to take vacation. Cause I just had this whirlwind book tour. Like, literally what I'm about to do now, this whirlwind book tour, then we going right into the holidays and I'm done. I'm shutting down. You know, I'm going to Thanksgiving, South Carolina. Then I'm going to Africa in the beginning of December, and I'm going to Angola at the end of December. So, just sitting around, questioning everything. And I'm on vacation and I'm sitting by the pool and all my family and friends are there, and I'm getting a haircut and Jay Z444 album is playing. And I'm sitting there and I just all of a sudden felt a calmness. I felt a moment of peace. I felt serenity like I haven't felt in a while. No anxiety, no worry, no stress, no nothing. I know where everybody's at. We're on an island life is good. My nieces, my sister, everybody, Life is good. And I said to myself, how can I feel like this all the time?

Yeah.

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Therapy. Wow. You've been flirting with the idea of therapy. For so long, you've been talking to all your friends about therapy, and your friends have been telling you the benefits of therapy, and you've been getting all of these signs that you should go to therapy, and your wife told you to go to therapy. Why haven't you gone to therapy yet? So that's when I started the process of finding a therapist, and I found me a therapist, and I was writing down everything that was making me anxious, everything that historically had given me anxiety. And then when you're talking to a therapist, you know, you start talking about your. The source of your PTSD and the.

Root of it all.

The root of it all. The root of, you know, old traumas that happened to you when you were young. And, like, all of this stuff is unpacking itself. And, you know, I love my father, but then I hate my father. Therapist making me hate my father, and I love my father. All of that is happening over and over and over and over. And I just started, like, keeping a journal, basically. And then next thing you know, I've written all of these things out that worry me. From parental paranoia about my kids to social media anxiety, to fear of failure to fear of not being connected to my roots in my hometown anymore. Like, I'm outgrowing my friends. We don't got nothing in common. We don't got nothing to talk about. Like, all of this stuff that gives me really bad anxiety and causes me to go in these weird panic attacks. Like, I was keeping a journal of all of that stuff. I started talking to my man, Chris Moreau, and then, like, my business partner, and I was like, yo, I think I want to write about my anxiety. I just want to write. I want to write about all of this stuff I'm learning in therapy. I think that would be really dope. And I remember Chris just saying, like, this is a book about mental health. And I'm like, I didn't even know anxiety was considered a mental health issue. I didn't know PTSD was considered a mental health issue. When you think of mental health, you think of schizophrenia and bipolar and stuff like that. Like, I had no idea this stuff was under the mental health umbrella. And so when that started to take shape like that, I was like, yo, we gotta reach out to the experts.

Wow.

Cause I'm not an expert at anything. I'm just a man with some experiences. And I was trying to transcribe what my therapist was telling me, but it wasn't coming out right. I felt like what she was telling Me was for me.

Yeah.

And I was able.

Yeah.

And I was able to explain my feelings better because of what she was telling me. But I couldn't give any diagnosis for anyone. So I brought in this brother named Dr. Ish Major who's a black man, mental health therapist, graduated from the University of South Carolina. And he does the clinical correlations at the end of every chapter. So I didn't set out to write a book about mental health. It's just something that took shape and now I see the need for it. And being that I see the need for it, I guess I've become like a unofficial advocate.

Do you feel like before this year that it was a weak thing to talk about mental health and your insecurities and your anxieties? Or is it a non cool thing coming from where you come from, or are you just supposed to suck it up and deal with it and handle it?

Definitely coming from where you come from. You're supposed to suck it up, deal with it and handle it. But you're only supposed to suck it up, deal with it and handle it because you don't know what it is. So you don't think that you're actually just. You wouldn't say, suck up, suck it up, deal with it when it comes to depression and anxiety, you know what I'm saying? If you knew that's what it was, but you're saying suck it up, deal with it to whatever pressures you think you're facing in the street. You know, that's where the whole acronym for fear comes into play. Fear. You either fear everything and run or face everything and rise. My homegirl K. Fox told me that. So it's like, so that's what we do in the hood. Like in the hood, like you kind of don't have a choice. But then I think about times where I definitely ran if I knew I owed somebody some money or like I can remember times I'd be walking down my dirt road doing nothing but minding my business. See one of my homeboys all the way down the dirt road have a panic attack about whatever it is that he was going to try to make me get into that day and go hide in the cornfield.

Wow.

Or go hide in the woods. Like he would pass, you know what I'm saying? Just because I didn't want the interaction, like I didn't want to be bothered.

Getting that trouble or whatever.

Yeah, yeah. So I feel like, you know, like I said, I didn't plan to write a mental health book. It's just Something that happened, and I feel like it's something that's actually bigger than me.

Wow. What's your biggest insecurity and fear now?

Biggest fear is I don't even like to talk about it. But the only reason I don't like to talk about it because I don't like to manifest that energy. But it's my. Anything happening to my kids or my wife. Yeah, I see those stupid stories about human trafficking and, you know, school shootings and. And dumb stuff like that. Like, I hate it. I would hate to grow up in this era if I was a kid, you know, So I just gotta protect my baby as best I can. That's my biggest fear. Fear.

Personal insecurity.

Personal insecurity. I definitely would still. I'm still. Still trying not to deal with the opinions of others. And it's not even the opinions of others when it comes to how they feel about me. I just, like, I hate stupidity. You know what I'm saying? Like, sometimes you open up social media and you can tell you didn't do no research to what the it is you talking about.

I know, man.

You know what I mean? Like, I literally had somebody tweet me yesterday because I did an interview with buzzfeed, I think it was, and buzzfeed asked me about Kanye west. And I said that I feel like we should have more empathy towards people who have told us that they're going through mental health issues. And I broke down the thing with Kanye, and I talked about how Kanye went from embracing the fact he was bipolar to now saying, you know, he got sleep deprivation, and that's why he's off his medication and things of that nature. And I'm like, yo, I wonder if I feel like Kanye did that because everybody gave him so much backlash when he initially came out and said he was bipolar and he was on medication and all of that kind of stuff like that. I feel like he didn't like the response from that. So that's why he backtracked and said, yo, I'm not that. So I was like, yo, we're reinforcing stigmas when we have a lack of empathy. And I'm not saying you gotta agree with anything that he's doing. I'm just saying, like, we gotta take a lot of this with a grain of salt. Cause this is a brother who was adamant about being bipolar, adamant about being on medication to. It was just sleep deprivation. I'm not on medication anymore. And we're watching. So it's like, yo, let's all be A little bit more easy when it comes to talking about our guy and anybody dealing with that. And like, the headline said, charlamagne says we should be more. I have more empathy for Kanye West. And this guy tweets me and is like, you want to have empathy for a guy who literally said he's not even bipolar anymore? What does that have to do with his political views? I'm like, you didn't even read the fucking article. Cause I addressed all of that in the article verbatim. You didn't even read it. And then when I said that to him. Cause I can't resist. My thumb's let it go. I had to let it go. I had to let it go, but I had to. I couldn't resist. I was like, you didn't even read the headline.

And then it was like a whole.

He sent one more tweet. And I didn't reply back to him. He said back, I didn't read the headline. Cause I've never liked your aura. Kick the man. Shut the up. You know what I'm saying? Like, that don't even make any sense to me, right? So it's like I just responded back to, like, you know, the most intelligent amongst us have been made to look stupid because of headline culture. You know, and that's that for me. I don't pay them no attention anymore. So that's my biggest insecurity is, like, the stupidity of people and how they can make me question myself.

Your intentions, your. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I just try to not look at that stuff.

It's hard, man. So hard.

Cause I want to defend myself. I want to, like, tell them, well, this is what really happened, or this is what it would mean. It's tough.

We're in a verbally abusive relationship with our smartphones.

Yeah.

We're in a verbally abusive relationship with social media. You wouldn't let anybody yell at you, scream at you, berate you, talk down to you, tell you that you ain't shit. The way we allow people to do it on social media. You wouldn't allow that in your workplace. You wouldn't allow that at home. You wouldn't allow that in a personal relationship. So what is the reasoning? That we allow it from our phones? And I have yet to figure it out. My therapist, and she pisses me off when she says this, because she'll be like, could you just put the phone away? And I'm like, I'll pay you $150 an hour for you to just state the obvious to me. Like, I know I can put my phone away, but I do feel like in the future it's gonna be, we're gonna see the ramifications of smartphones on.

Our PTSD from being on smartphones six, eight hours a day.

Listen, I get attacked on social media all the time. Like every couple, every few months, they canceling me for something. Like, I get attacked and that shit does not feel good. You know what I'm saying? You know, even sometimes I cause it on myself.

Yeah.

And I'm investigated. Yeah, yeah, I take the L's on that one. But then sometimes it's just like people be making up stuff. Like literally, like they've been tweeting me two nude pictures of me. That's not me.

Nude pictures?

Yeah, for years. Like whenever I say something they don't like, they be like, explain this. And I'll be like, I have no idea why you have this naked man in your phone looking at the camera with his ass in the air. You know, just because he's bald headed and brown skinned doesn't mean that's me. Like, you can clearly look at the pictures. It's an HD picture. It's not even pixelated. Like you can tell that's not me. But they don't care. Yeah, nobody cares about the truth. And the lie is more entertaining.

The lie is more entertaining.

Yeah, they don't care about what the truth is. So it's just hard to navigate yourself through those murky waters of social media. And, you know, if I was a 14 year old kid and I had to like constantly be perfect because social media gives off this, it paints this false picture of perfection.

Yeah.

You know, where everybody's saying the right thing and doing the right thing. And Pastor Steven Furtick said it's everybody's highlight reel. You never see the shots anybody misses. You never see any of the setbacks to losses, none of that. I think that that right there would drive me crazy. But then the fact that they're taking that virtual reality and trying to bring it into the real world and everybody's walking around and not trying to give off like the perception of truth anymore, like real truth, like who you really are. People are afraid to talk about the mistakes they've made because they think they're gonna be judged for them. And like, people are actually losing opportunities because of mistakes they made in the past. And even speaking on it now. Like, you know how I learned? I learned from listening to everybody else fuck up.

Yeah.

That's why God allowed a certain some of us to go through those experiences and not be afraid to share them so other people can learn. And it's like, yo, they're not allowing people to do that anymore. So if I was a 14 year old kid and I had to force myself to be perfect all the time, I'd probably kill myself. As soon as I make one mistake stressful, I feel so inferior. Everybody perfect on social media, Everybody trying to act perfect in the real world. I make one mistake, I don't deserve to be here.

Wow. And that's why we're seeing a lot of stress and a lot of anxiety for kids. It's crazy, man. I got three final questions for you. But you talk a lot about your mistakes, a lot about the lessons you've learned, a lot about your mess ups and all areas of life which I thought are really cool and how you open up in this book. Make sure you guys get it. It's called Shookone Anxiety Playing Tricks on Me. Really inspiring. Get a copy for your friends as well. Give it out to them as a gift. I think it'll help a lot of people. Three final questions I have for you and make sure to follow you. What is it?

C H C the God Cthegod on C T H A G O D.

On Instagram, Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, all that stuff.

Yeah.

And Breakfast Club.

Refastclub. AM is all our Instagram, Twitter, all that stuff. Like that YouTube page.

The three questions that I hope that are the final ones because I gotta respect your time. One is if you could have any dream to create the life you want moving forward, any type of career. I heard you say, like late night talk show host, like what would be the exact thing you could have? You can manifest anything in your career for as long as you want it to be.

What would that be exactly? What I'm building right now, multimedia conglomerate. Because Malcolm X said the person who controls the media controls the minds of the masses. And I just feel like I want to put all the positive energy out into the universe via people. People who have great stories to tell, who have great stories that people can learn from the experts in various fields. I feel like I'm doing that now slowly but surely. I have a lot of different things under my umbrella. My man Noriega, we got his show on the run. Eatin, which is like he's just a black Puerto Rican guy with his crew. Going from state to state, restaurant to restaurant, eating with your favorite celebrities. I have a documentary coming out with my man Bakari Sellers, you know, called As I Breathe. As I Breathe I hope, or as I hope I breathe. Either way, it's a great documentary. And it just played at New Orleans Film Festival and it's playing at the New York Documentary Film Festival coming real soon. And I mean, I got other projects, I got scripted projects that I've developed. We got a movie coming out November 2nd called Bodied that I'm a consultant producer in and I'm a star in. It's produced by Eminem.

Wow.

And it's a movie about battle rap, but it's actually just exploring freedom of speech. So I'm building this conglomerate and I know eventually that'll turn into my own late night television show, which will become a staple in the culture, you know, and they'll be like, wow, it's a black guy on late night network television now.

Can't wait to watch it.

Yeah. So it's just like that would be my ultimate career. Thing is multimedia, you know, books, podcasts, radio, tv, tv, everything. And not even just me being on these platforms, just creating these platforms to be able to empower other voices.

I like it, man. Yeah, that's powerful.

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Have for you is. It's called the Three Truths. I asked this to everyone at the end. Imagine you've done all that you've done, everything you want to do, everything you dream of. It's happened as I believe it will for you. You get to choose the day that's your last day on Earth. As many years as where you want it to be. It could be hundreds of years, whatever you decide. But you gotta pick a day eventually that this is the last day. Hypothetical. You go back to your roots. You go back into the radio station one last time to share one final message. And these would be your three truths. And all the work you've created you've gotta take with you when you leave. So no one has access to the content you've created in the past. But you get to flip on the final radio switch button, whatever it is at the time. You got the mic out in front of you, and 7 billion people put on headphones and they get to hear your final words, your final three lessons you'd share with the world. Your three truths. What would you say on the mic?

My three truths? Wow. I think that I would tell everybody that I hope I served you all well. I hope that I impacted you all in a positive way. For those I impacted in a negative way, don't die feeling that way about me, because I'm not about to die feeling that way about you. I've let my hurt go. You should let your hurt go, too. And then I'm gonna tell everybody to keep God first, stay humble and keep working. Cause that's all I ever did. And now I'm about to clock out.

I like it.

Simple.

That's it.

I like it. Well, I wanna acknowledge you for a moment, my man, because it's been fun to watch your career over the last year since Gary introduced us, because I didn't know who you were before that about a year ago. And it's inspiring to see your evolution of impacting people and using your platform for a positive message. And really, because there's so many kids out there, people listening, that look up to you and they mirror you and the actions you take and the message you say. So for you, putting out content like this when it's probably not the most popular thing, thing, or cool thing to do or whatever it may be, is really inspiring. So I acknowledge you for putting yourself out there in a big way and showing up every single day, man.

Yeah. And you know what's so funny about that content? They'll give you flack for that as well.

Absolutely.

Another thing I've learned in my life is that when you're in this position, nobody thinks anything you do is genuine.

No. Oh, you're doing this for this reason. You're doing it for that reason.

Exactly. Like, I literally saw somebody tweet yesterday, Charlamagne, tha God is doing with mental health what Kim Kardashian is doing with criminal justice reform or prison reform. And I'm like, really? And then they were like, he needs to bring such and such and such and such on his platform and help elevate their voices. One of the guys I already had on my platform talking about mental health a couple years ago. So you weren't paying attention. Then I said to her, because I couldn't resist.

Here's a link.

I said to her, he came on my show already, and number two. So I'm supposed to not talk about My anxiety. I'm supposed to not talk about my experiences with therapy just because I'm who I am. That makes zero sense to me. Once again, I am only here because God has allowed me to experience some things so I can use that experience to teach other people. Like, I truly believe that. So I kind of fell into this situation. Cause I really feel like this whole situation is bigger than me. But the universe is conspiring for us to have this conversation, and I'm here to have it.

I love it, man. What's the thing you're most proud of that most people don't know about you?

I'm proud of being a good father and a good husband. You know, I know this may sound crazy, but it feels good to say I haven't cheated on my wife in three years. You know, we always been together 20 years, though. Wow. And, like, we've been together since we was high school sweethearts. And, I mean, she's cheated on me. She's done dirt, you know, and I've done dirt. I just did my dirt most recently.

Right.

And I think it's a number of reasons for that. Like, you know, just like with anything else. Like, Chris Rock told me one time, Chris Rock said, yo, every superhero is going to test his superpowers. So just like, 20 years ago, when I was in Charleston, South Carolina, and I saw my name on that marquee, even though I'm not gassed up like I was back then, 20 years later, when you in a different position and, you know it's women that you've looked at your whole life on TV or whatever, music videos, now you have an opportunity, man. Bruh. Like, what do you want from me? What does Tyrese say? What more do you want from me? Like, but you realize, man, none of that is nothing. At the end of the day, yeah, you do it. It's done. And now you're like, man, I gotta go home, and I wanna be home. And so, like, I live vicariously through a lot of my homeboys now, and it's like, their life is too stressful, bro. Like, I don't.

Like, you don't need another anxiety attack.

No. I wake up in the middle of the night listening to yelling in the hallway, and I'm like, what the hell is going on? You hear one of your boys voice, and you just peek out the door and you see him and a girl. I'm not leaving.

I'm not.

Like, who got time for that? Yeah, it's exhausting. It's stressful. Like, I like being 40 and being at home with my wife and my kids. I like finding new ways to love my wife. I like finding new ways to keep our relationship exciting. You know what I mean? Like, that is what makes me feel like a man nowadays. That's why I talk about in the book, you know? And that's why I can't wait to read your book, the Mask of Masculinity. Cause that whole definition of masculinity is trash. Like, what does that even mean? Every way they taught us how to be a man was absolutely wrong. And that's why it's a me too times up movement right now. And we're lying to ourselves as men if we're not saying we caused that. You know what I'm saying? We are the ones that put women in those positions. That. Putting women in those threatening positions all of these years. And the best apology is change behavior. So it's just like everything I think of when it comes to being a man was absolutely wrong. And I know for a fact I was just feeding my ego when I was out there sleeping with a bunch of different women and cheating on my wife. So now, you know, I feed my ego in different ways. Cause we all got an ego. You got your. My man Ryan Holiday is up there holding the book. Ego is the enemy. We all got an ego. It's just about what you feed your ego and how you feed your ego. My ego gets fed through service to others. And it's not even about.

I love that man.

It's not even about bragging that I'm doing such and such for other people. I know. And that's enough for me.

Yeah, you know, that's good. Final question. What's your definition of greatness?

My definition of greatness? Realizing your full potential as a human being on this planet and finding what makes you happy and doing what genuinely makes you happy. People that are great to me are the people who wake up every day and they love what they do, and they do it to the best of their ability. To me, that is the pure definition of greatness. You ever been to Chick Fil A?

Yeah.

Are those Chick Fil A workers not the nicest people you would ever meet in your life? Nice, Man, Those people go to work every day and wait to be great.

They get a day off.

That's what I'm saying.

Sunday they get off.

They get Sunday off.

Benefits, probably.

Benefits. I heard, like, whatever it is that Chick Fil A is offering, people love it and they enjoy it. So it's just like, that's Greatness to me. Like, yo, of course you got people that, like, LeBron James is great at basketball, Drake is great at rap. But I'm talking about. What about the guy at Starbucks? Yeah, who? Your day is better. Cause you're going in there to order your latte or whatever, but he makes your latte just right. You know why? Cause he's great at making lattes. And he probably enjoys making those lattes for other people. Like, to me, being great is just doing what makes you happy. That's my problem with America nowadays. We got this, like, unreal obsession with celebrity. And we think that success and celebrity go hand in hand. Like, we equate success to just celebrity. But that's not the case. It's a guy right now in LA making $50,000 a year, $60,000 a year. He got a nice crib and his family's good and, you know, his kids are happy. He got food on the table. And most importantly, he's happy. He's living a great life. That's greatness to me. Charlamagne.

Thanks, brother.

Lewis. Thank you, brother. Appreciate you for having me, man.

Get the book.

Guys.

Big thanks again to my man, Charlemagne, the God again. Make sure to check out all of his stuff. Check out his book. Follow him on Instagram and on all the places on social media. Make sure to tag me at Lewis how and at sh. The God over on Instagram. And let us know what you enjoyed most about this. Take a screenshot of this, link it up to your fans on Twitter and Facebook, Instagram, or text a couple of friends that you think would resonate with this message. Again, if you are dealing with something, anxiety, overwhelm stress, or any type of suffering, emotionally and mentally, you don't need to suffer anymore. I want to remind you this. I want to wake you up in a way, and I hope that you're listening, that you don't need to suffer anymore. More that we're all in this together and that people are here to support you. Even if you feel like you haven't found those people yet, there are people out there that can support you. And I want to let you know that you are fully loved, you are fully worthy, and you are fully enough. I've been through different struggles in my life, through anxiety, overwhelm, burnout, where I felt like there was no way out. And sometimes those thoughts can lead to darkness, and that darkness can lead to bad decision making. And I don't want you to lead down that path anymore. I don't want you to think that there's no way out. If you don't feel like there's any friends or any family that supports you, then you can reach out to a therapist or to a coach or to a trained expert, a licensed expert who can support you. They are going to be there for you. So I'm sure that you could reach out to someone and they will support you. I mean, talk to a stranger, talk to anyone. Just don't hold it in anymore because I want to let you know that you're not alone and you are fully loved. I hope you enjoyed this interview. For me, it's very powerful when we get to open up about these things. The things that sometimes aren't posted about on social media or aren't talked about at the dinner table or out at the bar or out at the club. These things aren't talked about. And I think it's important for us to continue to open up about him privately, small group fashion, and publicly, if it resonates with you. Again, big thank you to Charlemagne the God for doing this. Love his work, love what he's up to, Love his honesty here. What a powerful moment for us. What a powerful interview. Super grateful for this. Again, Ralph Waldo Emerson said, sorrow looks back, worry looks around, faith looks up. Where are you going to be looking? Are you going to be looking back, looking around, or looking towards a greater purpose and vision for your life? Start looking outward, start looking upward. Start focusing on something greater than yourself. And Plato said, nothing in the affairs of men is worthy of great anxiety. Nothing. Let the anxiety go. Stop allowing anxiety to cripple you. Stop allowing it to hold you down and hold you back. Because you were born for so much greater things in your life. You were born to make a bigger impact than to allow anxiety hold you back. I love you so very much and you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.

Sam.

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