784 Maisie Williams: Be Your Own Hero

This is episode number 784 with Maisie Williams.

Welcome to the School of Greatness.

My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now, let the class begin. Maya Angelou said, as you grow older, you'll discover that you have two hands, one for helping yourself and the other for helping others. And Oscar Wilde said, to love oneself is the beginning of a lifelong romance. Welcome to this episode with Maisie Williams, someone I've gotten to know recently and gotten to spend a few times with, and who's really opened me up and inspired me in a lot she started acting in the massive hit Game of Thrones back in 2011. She's won a number of awards for best supporting actress, a number of awards for best young actor, and has inspired a young generation. And in this interview, we talk about how acting has affected Maisie's ability to be herself when she's offset. Also how Maisie embraces anxiety and she dives into her anxiety early on in this interview. and how she started to really overcome it. The power of self-care and making time for it, and the importance of looking within yourself for love instead of outside sources. I think this is a really important conversation we're having. There's a lot of vulnerable and sensitive moments that Maisie has, and I really honor her for sharing and diving in and opening up about these topics that I think a lot of people struggle with. So if you enjoy this, make sure to share with a friend who you think it could support as well. The link is lewishouse.com/784. I really believe this is going to inspire a lot of people and I want to spread this as far and as wide as we can. So make sure to share this out. Tag Maisie as well over on Instagram. She's got an inspiring page. And make sure to check out her new company called Daisy. We'll talk about that later and have it all in the show notes. as well. And also, many of you have been asking about past episodes. We've had almost 800 episodes on the School of Greatness. And unfortunately, iTunes and other podcast players don't allow you to have past a certain number of podcasts. So we've got incredible episodes with Mel Robbins and Tim Ferriss and Alanis Morissette and Tony Robbins that aren't actually on this platform right now. So we've decided to support you even more by creating a new show called the School of Greatness Hall of Fame. These are hand selected episodes that aren't available anymore online. They're hand selected. We put them in a curated list that you can check them out, all called the Hall of Fame. So make sure to go search for School of Greatness Hall of Fame and you can go see the past episodes as well. Again, thank you to our sponsors for helping us make this podcast the way it is. And without further ado, let's dive into this episode with the one, the only, the inspiring Maisie Williams.

Welcome back, everyone, to the School of Greatness podcast. I'm very excited. We have Maisie Williams in the house. High five. We're in London. We're in your office area, side office, for your startup company called-- In the.

Cool part of town.

The cool part of town. We were driving through and we're like, man, we feel cool. We actually drove through, I don't know, 15 minutes away. And there was a bunch of kids in outfits and school outfits and uniforms, and they looked like Harry Potter kids.

Yeah.

I was like, where's Harry?

No, it was never Harry. Where is this guy?

Where is it? I'm excited about this. We met a couple months ago in LA. And you are a powerhouse in the world. You're a star, a big show, Game of Thrones, which I told you I've never seen. I saw the first 10 minutes of Episode 1 years ago. I never got into it.

Yeah.

But now I want to get into it because of you.

Oh, thank you.

So I'm excited to get into it. You've got the season, the final season's coming out like right now.

Yes, April 14th, it's coming. So it's like a lot of press and things right now.

Everything.

Yeah.

You're all over the place right now. Cover of every magazine. You're doing it all.

Yes, exactly.

And this is interesting. We were just talking about this before we sat down about how kind of anxious you get before interviews, before speeches, before photo shoots, before things like this.

Yeah.

But you're this massive superstar, millions of followers all over the world, been doing eight seasons of Game of Thrones.

Yeah.

You are massive, but you still get anxious before an interview with a simple American guy on a podcast, right?

I think, like, as an actor, you spend your life playing, like, a character. And then, you know, like, I've been doing press since for about a decade, and You know, there are times when I feel like I'm putting on a character and portraying a version of myself, but I think there's nothing that's more terrifying than like truly being yourself.

Wow.

And yeah, I get very, very anxious about a lot of things. I think it helps me in some ways. I do a lot better when I put myself under a little bit of pressure, I think. And I think nerves is a way of you sort of doing that, like feeding your Nerves.

You get a zone more.

Exactly.

You're focused.

Yeah. But yeah, also can be just very nerve-wracking, I think. You know, there's a lot of people gonna listen to this.

Why is being yourself so nerve-wracking?

Because I think for a long time, I wasn't really sure who I was. So I couldn't really be authentic because I was trying to search in so many other places for who that was. and I guess it's that sort of fear of being found out and like, you know, trying to say the right thing and trying to be some, be the person that you want me to be in this situation, which I sort of tried to scrap about a year ago. And then I think since then my nerves have definitely got a lot more.

Intense, but- Nerves are more intense.

Yeah, when I've tried to just sort of like drop that, I don't know. Yeah, I just had a lot of, you get it a lot when you're younger, when you grow up and you try something and then, you know, a lot of people have a lot of opinions and say that you're not being authentic. And when you're just trying to figure that out yourself, I think it's quite a jarring thing to hear. And for me, I have always felt like, I don't really know who I am.

Really?

Yeah, if I'm not pretending to be someone else. Yeah, yeah.

Do you think most, 'cause you're 21 now, you're gonna turn 22 soon. Do you think most teenagers feel that way, even if they're not on a big show and everyone's looking at them?

Absolutely. I think, you know, whenever anyone can see through my, Facade and they see me for like the nervous little girl that I am. I think actually it's quite, I get quite a positive reaction from that. So I've really tried to just embrace it a lot more because I think people can relate to that and you know, getting on stage and doing a TED Talk is terrifying and I think, you know, to see someone find it terrifying is, you know, makes you feel kind of good like that.

Yeah, it's superhuman.

Yeah. Yeah, I feel like it's quite a natural thing to be a little nervous to stand on a stage and talk to people, so.

Is it different being on camera in front of a film crew? I mean, I don't even know how many people are filming and on set, 20, 50 people while you're doing a scene. Is it more nervous when the cameras say, okay, action, time to go, hit this at this time. You've done it 20 times, now we need you to get it right. What's more nerve-wracking, that or a TED.

Talk for 15 minutes in front of 1,000 people? A TED Talk. Why is that? I think performing that's like in my bones and being able to switch that on and like I can pretend to be like still and calm and like focused and thoughtful. And that's what my entire job is on Game of Thrones. Arya is very calculated and she can command a room by doing very little. And I understand that feeling and can portray that and can convince people. But my hands are shaking right now.

So you could do that on a camera and be super calm. But on stage or in a simple little podcast with me, you still get a little nervous or anxious.

Yeah. And I think it really is just the act of creating a character. of pretending. And I think people do it all the time. People live their entire lives pretending to be someone they're not. Being a character.

Putting on a mask or doing something.

People don't truly know who they are and you do that for so long that you really lose touch with who you are. And I think being able to do that so strongly and so convincingly means I've created a career from it. But yeah, When I strip that away and decide to drop that, I am a very anxious person. And yeah, I don't know if there's ever a way to fix that about myself. I've definitely tried, I've sort of gone to therapy, and I've been medicated, and I've tried a lot of different things. But I think the best medicine I was ever given was really just trying to embrace it and stop trying to fight it, really, and just accepting that that's how I deal with things and not letting it stop me from doing a TED Talk. I'm still gonna go and do it, even though it means that I'm going to be uncomfortable and probably make my anxiety worse. Or do a play. I did a play for three months at Hampstead Theatre here in London.

Was that nerve-wracking?

Completely. On opening night, I looked at myself in the mirror, was alone in my dressing room, and I outwardly said to myself in the mirror, What made you think you could do this? Like, said it to myself.

That's probably not the best thing to say right before the first night.

No. But I just couldn't believe that, like, past Maisie had thought that this would be an amazing idea. But then you have to stop and breathe and realize that, like, I'm not gonna let this hold me back from doing the things I enjoy, 'cause ultimately I enjoy performing. I enjoy being on stage. I enjoy that sort of thing. And I enjoy Helping other people and I know that the words that I wanted to say in my TED Talk could be inspiring to other people and I want to do that. And it's difficult, but it doesn't mean that I shouldn't. Right.

Yeah.

So it's like trying to not listen to those voices in my head.

How did the play and the TED Talk go for you personally? How did you feel they went?

The play was amazing. I felt so proud of myself afterwards.

Nice.

And I want to do more. The TED Talk, the thing about a TED Talk is you do it on the day in front of those people on stage and then it lives on after you.

It's recorded and yeah.

On the day, delivery was not.

Strong.

There's a lot of pregnant pauses where I looked at the crowd and thought, What am I doing?

What am I doing here? Who thought, who would have thought I should be doing this?

Yeah, and then got it back and, you know, but, you know, and I won, I was really beating myself up after it. I was with Ruben and we walked back to the train station and I basically cried the whole way back to the train station.

Really?

Looked at the floor. I couldn't even look at him because I was so embarrassed and disappointed in myself. Then we just got to the train station and I sort of pulled myself together and we were just looking through a shop while we waited for the train and this girl came up and she said, And I turned around and she was like, I just was at your TED Talk. It's so interesting to me that you're so terrified and like, don't beat yourself up about that because, yeah, you know, it wasn't the most punchy talk that anyone's ever given, but the fact that you like let down that wall and let people see that you are just like an anxious person, I think is like quite humbling to people to hear. So that was like what I needed for me to just be like, suck it up, like it's bigger than that and it's okay that you did something wrong. And then they edited those out and then now the video is doing well.

It's great.

Wonderfully and people are happy. So yeah, I don't need to beat myself up for the rest of my life.

Now, where do you think anxiety comes from for you?

I think my entire family are quite anxious people. And I think mine's definitely sort of enhanced and kind of- you-'re the youngest of four, right? I am. Yes. Yeah, we sit in the same place in the family, the baby.

You think yours is enhanced?

Yeah, it's just, you know, mine gets worse with like being famous, you know, and the things that come with that, like being stopped in the street, you know? So I don't know that that's like the root of it, really. I feel like I maybe would have been an anxious person anyway, even if I wasn't famous. So I don't want to say that, 'cause I think that that's untrue. I think just self-doubt, like... Really? Me and my entire family... You doubt yourself a lot. Yeah, I think we all do.

We have... You're this big star. You're on shows, you're, you know, Celebrated.

I don't think that's where your self-worth comes from though.

Where does your self-worth come from?

My, I think like real connections with people, like I pride myself and I judge myself based on like how many people are like good to me and help me and how many people I help like one to one. Like I feel like that's how I feel feel like I'm worth something if I can be that friend to call or if I can find, if I have someone to call. I think that's like kind of where my self-worth is. Is that bad? I don't know.

The intimate personal connections you have, the relationships you have if they're stronger if they're not strong.

Yeah. And so I think the reason why it sort of maybe got worse is because I have got this fame and it's hard to understand what people's intentions are and so It's hard to have time for those relationships. And so, you know, if you go too long away from home, then it can get a lot worse. And I spend too much time away from my family. And but I think, you know, for all of us, it is just a bit of self-doubt. And I think we have quite low self-esteem. And, you know, I can look at every single member of my family. And I think I can pinpoint, you know, I can see it in their eyes, like things that I feel and things that I think about myself. And as soon as, you know, one of my siblings says something to me, which is a sentence I probably say to myself, I hate this about myself. I hate it. It destroys me. And it's really hard to be like, don't you dare, because I know I'm exactly the same. So I think that it's just something within us, but we're getting much better at talking to each other and being more supportive of one another.

How do you think you can shift that personally for yourself moving forward, where you're not saying negative things about yourself or who am I to do this?

Yeah, well, I've definitely, I used to tell myself I hated myself, like, every day. I'd say outwardly to myself.

Before you started the show, during the show?

No, so this maybe started when I was 15 or 16.

Really? Yeah.

And I was- When you're at the top of your career.

Yeah, I would say out loud, what.

In the mirror or just like- and.

Sometimes I would say it, but like.

You know, it started just in my head, like I'd think of something and then a bit like cringe or like, you know, feel disappointed or feel whatever, and I'd be like, oh, I hate myself. And then it started getting worse and worse and worse until like sometimes I'd just be with people and we'd be like talking and then I'd say, I hate myself. And people are like, what? And I'm like, nothing, sorry. And it's just 'cause thoughts in my head were getting so overwhelming that I would just say it out loud and not realize that I'd done it.

Wow.

Yeah, it was quite, like I was very, I felt very negatively about myself.

Why do you think that is though? What could have changed on the outside for you to think differently? You had the biggest show, you know, you're getting on the COVID of magazines, you have all these opportunities, tons of people are loving you, but on the inside, you weren't loving yourself as sound. Like, what would have to change on the external world for that, for you to shift?

I think that was the point, was that I was waiting for something on the outside world to change, and it wasn't ever really going to. So I think it was important for me to find peace within myself. I think I, you know, had a lot of, like, rocky relationships with friends and. My family, you know, had a lot of thoughts about, you know, why did I get this success, you know, next to, like, my siblings and, you know, how much...

The guilt or things you might have felt?

Yeah, definitely. And so I think what I needed to do was start punishing myself for that. And that was what it came out as, I would punish myself for being successful.

Wow.

Yeah.

Surprised you've made it this far. I'm still surprised you're still on the show like this long for that much like internal hatred and punishment you get on yourself.

It definitely hit rock bottom before I got to where I am now. We wouldn't have had this conversation a year ago.

Yeah, you're in a much better place now.

Definitely, yeah.

What was a year ago like? And I know you say you didn't want to cry or be emotional, so I apologize, but this is powerful stuff.

Yeah.

No, I want to tell my story. About a year ago, I was in a relationship, but I had unfortunately got into a relationship where I wasn't ready to love someone else. And I had had just before that relationship, I'd had a very big argument and a huge, like, rift within my life and in my heart and a huge, you know, like, loss of friendship and. And, like, a very difficult thing that had happened. And I met this person and I fell in love with him and. Our entire relationship was beautiful, but it was so separated from anything that I was feeling before. I created this new avenue of life with this person. And I think it got to two years in and I realized that I hadn't actually righted any of the wrongs from two years previously. I had just cut, like, cut an arm off basically and said, I'm not dealing with any of that. And was angry at the world because I was obviously upset about this, you know, a huge part of my life that I'd cut off. and just filled it with this relationship. And I couldn't love him, you know, properly. And in turn, I didn't love myself, and he couldn't love me properly.

And.

And so that ended up ending. And I went on a very self-destructive path. And for how long? Maybe, like, three months. It wasn't, you know, it wasn't, like, crazy. But I realized in that time, like, I hadn't. I couldn't be alone with myself without just. just being awful to myself. And I couldn't even be with people without feeling like I, you know, I hated every single person there and myself. Like, I didn't have any connections with my friends that I was with at that time. I think people listening to this would think I. And people have said to me, like, I'm so. I feel awful that I wasn't there for you. And I. People couldn't have even been there for me. Even if I'd have got a call from my best friend, it wouldn't have been like the cooling that I needed. I was like dead set on being very self-destructive, never really had a very good relationship with substances anyway. And it just all started to sort of come out in those few months. And I just got very, very sad. And yeah, I just had a lot of overwhelming feelings of not really wanting to be here. Wow. And then Yeah, and then I met someone who just listened really and I think a lot of people want to help you and when you see someone who's in pain, you want to help them.

Like coach them or tell them what.

To do or... Yeah, you want to take that pain away. I was watching this thing about a marathon trainer and he trained this girl and he says you want to feel the pain for them and you want to run the marathon for them and you want to be that but you can't, you have to just let them just figure it out and discover it as it goes. And I think a lot of my friends are people who want to make me feel better, but you have to do that yourself. And no one had really tried to ask me the questions that I need to be asking myself, you know?

What are some of those questions they should have asked you or that this friend started to ask you?

Yeah.

Why do you find it so easy to think bad thoughts than good thoughts? And I really loved being negative and getting into a hole. I used to say like I'm in a hole. I felt like I was in a hole.

Jeez, I don't know how you even did anything in your life. I don't even know how you were an actress or any of these things.

Yeah, I took a bit of time off last summer and I think it was very, very good. Through that period of time, it was quite good for me, you know, to get all of this.

Because how do you say, I hate myself, I'm in a hole, I'm no good, or whatever else you were saying to yourself. But also go land this great part and keep booking.

This is the thing about medication though. So I was on a lot of beta blockers, which I understand, but I think are actually kind of the worst things. So I would, you know, one big memory, and this is something that I hope will make people sort of realize where I was at. It was like the, Like the final, it was like a big celebration of Game of Thrones, the final season. And I was taking this sort of medication that was like just very numbing and like...

So you didn't feel anxious?

And everyone, yeah, so we didn't feel anxious, but I meant I really didn't feel anything. And everyone around me is sobbing and crying and hugging and we're looking at pictures of us when we were children and just couldn't for the life of me like feel a thing.

You felt nothing?

Literally nothing. Just like was just floating through these last few months of the show.

Wow.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And then I think, you know, when did start to sort of bring myself out of that? Started to love myself, I think. And now I wouldn't dream of telling myself that I hated myself. And it makes me so sad to think that I was like that. And I was. Because everything is so. I'm wonderful now.

It's a beautiful life, isn't it? Well, I'm glad that you have someone and people who can really listen to you and ask you the right questions so that you can start to shift those conversations. I think, you know, I used to have those conversations with myself as well for many years. And I think a lot of people listening or watching have had those or are having them now. so I think it's beautiful that you're sharing this and I really appreciate it.

That's okay. I'm happy too.

If there's a tissue back there, maybe you grab a tissue.

No, might be a little one.

I love that someone asked you this question. Why do you think, why is it easier to say bad things or think bad thoughts than it is to say good thoughts? Yeah, because I'm all about the positive things we tell ourselves. The intention of saying something positive, because the opposite isn't going to help you. It's only going to create more anxiety, more stress, more frustration and anger. What are the other questions that he was asking you or your friends were asking you?

It was, I think, I feel ridiculous now. We would stay up and have conversations for hours and hours and I'm like, what did he say?

What was it? What was the things that helped shift you to start looking at your life differently? Like, oh wow, maybe I do see all these negative things that I shouldn't be saying. What else am I doing that I shouldn't be doing?

I think what I first realized was that I was punishing myself for my success.

Your siblings, your family wasn't achieving that or your friends weren't achieving that.

So I had a bit of a rift within my family anyway. So I was disconnected from them, which means I was kind of disconnected from the truth. Because when you are disconnected from someone, you can tell yourself whatever they, you can, you know, convince yourself that they think something, you know, people do all the time. And so I think realizing that A lot of the things I was telling myself were based on other things that I was just telling myself and not like facts and understanding that I didn't need to punish myself and actually that my family were really proud of the things that I was doing and wanted to support me and cared that I was, you know, I didn't feel jealous or angry or bitter. They were actually very, very supportive. It was something that I was more just afraid of, I guess, and I'd made it, you know, a problem. I think after that, I was looking for apologies and was looking for. I wanted people to feel bad for the things that they had said. And I realized that that wasn't going to happen. But I still felt very bad about things that I had said. So I decided to apologize for those things, even though I wasn't going to get anything in return, and I didn't.

So you did this in person with people or on the phone?

Yeah, on the phone, like Skype, FaceTime, things like that.

How did you feel after you apologized to all the people that you said bad things to?

Yeah, I was, I mean, I was shaking. It was like, you know, a conversation that should have happened like two years ago, three years ago, you know? And I was like, panic attack, you know, on the edge of that sort of like, yeah, just that feeling. Then I was with my best friend Sophie Turner at the time. And so I went into the room with her and I said, I just had this conversation and she knew a lot of the backstory. I just had this and this is what they said and this is what I said and da, da, da, da. And she was about to speak and I was like, but I'm okay with it all and it's fine. It's at peace and I want to just move on with my life now. And she turned around to me and was like, you are the most stubborn person I've ever met and I can't believe that you're saying this to me right now. And that was when I knew I was like, I'm making progress. Cause I feel good, even though I'm terrified, I feel better. And, you know, I could then sort of close that chapter of my life. And know that, you know, I had, yeah, exactly. And then I think the last step really for me was just realizing that I just need to take time to care for myself. And I need to say no to things and people. And I need to like actually take the time to sort things out when I feel sad or, you know, if I'm, because it just makes you the most ineffective person when you just stress about a million things and it could all have been solved by, you know, that two weekends ago when you wanted to do that thing that was going to make you feel good and you didn't. And now you're paying for it in, like, a week of low time. So I think, like, actual time for self-care and. Yeah, stop doing things for other people because you know it'll make them feel good, but make you feel kind of horrible.

Right, right. Well, I'm glad that you said yes to me to do this, even though maybe you didn't want to. No, it is good. What are some of the things that you do now for self-care? Well, I think... Like, do you get massages? Do you go just walk in nature? Do you journal? Do you just chill out and things?

Yeah, a lot. So I'm more creative now. I do a painting.

Oh, that's cool.

Which I like. I write words. They're like poems, but in, like, telling myself that I'm just looking for my aunt and John, and then there'll be songs, you know?

Yeah.

Like, I just take a lot more time of a self-care I get eight hours sleep every night, but, like, an hour before I like to get ready for bed, and it, like, makes you feel good. Like, in low times, like, it's quite common for people, but, like, you. stop caring about yourself completely.

You don't do anything. You don't eat good food.

Yeah, and it's like, yeah, I think I just like, I stopped binge eating. So I struggled with that sort of thing.

Just a box of brownies and cookies.

Ooh, yeah.

So good.

Just stop that. Stop that. I stopped a lot of things. I don't binge drink anymore. I quit drinking, but now I, like, you know, we'll have a glass of wine with my dinner or something, but I don't binge drink at all anymore. I've just lived a lot. I just live a lot more simply now, I think. And, like, I spend just a lot more time with myself.

Yeah.

I used to fill everything with seeing people and doing things and, like, you know, trying to be there for, you know, do things for other people. But I think really now, like, I look at my life and it's like five miles an hour, and it just like peaceful and like very calm. And I think that was like the biggest change for me is like having a free evening and you know.

Not booking your schedule to do everything all the time.

Just cooking dinner and not being, you know, not ordering delivery on your way home at 11:30 at night and then eating it in bed and then going to sleep and then waking up at six and like, you know, that's what it was like. It was just around the clock mayhem and now I just, you know, feel very calm. That's great.

What advice would you have for other young women who maybe feel super anxious, super stressed out, hate themselves, ask themselves, why am I even here? What advice would you have for them or coaching or guidance if they're listening to this?

I think to just slow everything down, to write things out, to, I mean, I think it really depends, but I think like, giving yourself the, there's lots of different types of like therapy that you can go and do, you know, CBT or something, I don't know. But if that's not really for you, I think it's like just asking yourself really, really difficult questions, like questioning, getting to the root, look further and further within, because like the answers are all there and I think you're capable of finding that on your own. ask yourself, like, why do you make yourself feel like this? Because no one else is doing that to you.

Right.

Why? And. And, like, don't stop until you've, like, cried every last tear about the reason why. Like, keep picking yourself and keep trying to understand it.

Yeah.

I'm still, you know, on my way to figuring that sort of thing out. I think, you know, it's definitely like. just like layers and layers of like, you know, trying to understand that. But I think it's all within you. And I think trying to find, getting support and help from friends or boyfriends can be like really, really wonderful. But at the end of the day, like you can't mask any of your problems with that because they'll just come back in three years time when it's even harder to grasp.

Yeah.

Because you did that, you like got into a new relationship and then you masked in and everything was good for a while, but you were still angry underneath later because you hadn't addressed certain things that you were frustrated about before.

Exactly. So I think it's just like, it's all within you. Yeah. Understanding that. And, you know, every day I live my life differently now. I feel like even being aware today that I'm anxious, like an understanding that I, if I, you know, if I come off a certain way, like, I'm just aware, I don't come off in a certain way now because I'm just understanding that I'm anxious rather. rather than pretending that I'm not and being mean or however it comes out in different people.

Or snobby or whatever it is.

Yeah, exactly. So I think, you know, just it's like not just, I think looking within yourself is like the answer to so many problems in life.

Yeah. Have you read the book, the Alchemist?

No, it's Rubin's favorite.

It's his favorite? You gotta read this.

I do, I do.

But it's all about the treasures within you. The answers are within you. It takes you on a beautiful journey to discover that. What do you think is your biggest fear right now?

My biggest fear.

Not like spiders, but, you know.

I think I have no doubts that I'm going to do wonderful things with my life, but I have a tendency to judge myself based on other people's opinions of me. And that's sort of where a lot of my anxieties have always been and something that I'm trying to change, but I don't know, you know. one year of doing that isn't going to solve that. And so I think, you know, now with the show ending and moving forward into my life and deciding what I want to do, I just worry that if people are very vocal about what they think on my life, that it might affect me, even if it just upsets me. Like, that kind of scares me because when I get upset, it makes just forget a lot of the things that I've worked so hard to try and understand. It's like- you- put that energy on.

That upset or people's opinions. Exactly. As opposed to the good things you've done.

Yeah.

Or your mission or what you want to create.

Yeah. And that's when it starts creeping back in, you know, it's like one knock or one thing you read and then it can just spiral. And I know that I'm still very capable of doing that. So it's just that's what my biggest fear is for the future because I don't want it to stop me from doing things I want to do. But other people's opinions do still really affect me.

So how do you detach your emotions to what other people say about you? Positive or negative?

I don't know if this is the right answer, but for now, what I'm going to do is not see them.

Don't read any newspapers, don't read social media comments.

Yeah, I mean, that's definitely not the answer.

That's helpful, I think, too.

Yeah, but I think for me, it's going to be about coming away from social media and you know, if I'm trying something new, I want to be able to try it and realize it and figure it out before I like have to present it to someone for their opinion. The thing is about being famous and doing anything is that people are always watching you. So you can't, you know, I can't ever be a beginner at anything again. Because everyone's like waiting for you, you know.

Judging you.

Exactly. It's like, what makes you think that you can do that? I'm like, well, I don't know. I'm just figuring it out right now. So I think, you know, at least locking myself away until I, you know, know exactly what it is that I want to go out and do.

Next.

I think that's important and something that I'm so excited for, just to be able to take time out and be creative on my own and maybe even study again. I always told myself I'd never go back to school, but I think I might.

There you go.

Yeah.

Because you've been doing this show for 10, is it 10 years now?

Yeah, 10 years in a few months. Wow.

It's consumed your life.

My whole adolescence, like I was a full child, like 12 years old, and now I'm like full, I mean a full adult, but you know over 21.

Is like, you know, you're officially an adult.

Exactly.

So.

At least age-wise emotionally, yeah.

Emotionally, I think I was more grown up then. No, I'm kidding. Yeah, no, it really has been, yeah, everyone's watched me grow up.

Yeah.

Are you more excited about the show being over and seeing what's next, or are you more worried about, well, am I gonna book a big show again with a big role? Because I know some actors, we talked about this last time, they've been big stars for years, the show ends, and then they can't even get a casting for the next three years.

My idea of success for my future isn't trying to do something that was as successful as Game of Thrones again. That's smart.

Most people don't have that point of view.

Yeah, I think that's where I've clashed sort of, you know, opinions with a lot of people in my life for what I want my future to be. And for me, I don't see success as always going bigger and better and bigger and better because it's not what I want. I have no intention of being any more famous than I am right now. I'm happy for that to just get less and less. And in terms of like being an actor and the characters that I want to play and the emotions that I want to sort of portray, it's very to find those sort of things within, you know, very, very big movies. And they sometimes don't ask questions that are, you know, moving enough or deep enough or real enough. And I think that I really want to tell stories that are heartbreaking or I want to just, like, feel really. I'm a very emotional person. I feel things very, very deeply. And I love that. And I want other people to feel that watching movies. And when things are kind of sugar-coated and, you know, just kind of a little offensive.

When it's too weak, yeah.

Yeah. I think it comes.

So you want to create more opportunities like that for yourself.

Yeah. And, you know, and even not just in the acting world, but, you know, other personal achievements. and things that I judge my life on. And yeah, I don't, I wanna run a marathon, right?

By when?

We're not talking about it.

What age do you wanna complete it by?

Well, this is the thing, it's like, I don't want, I wanna do it for myself and no one else. And so it's like, I don't even want people to know when I'm doing it. I don't, and like, you know, I could raise so much money by doing a marathon, and, you know, I'd rather just donate that out of my own pocket. pocket than, like, having this. I'm doing this.

Pressure.

It's not about anyone else and. Yeah, it was cool. So it's just. Yeah. So it's things that I want with my life that I think, like, you know, it's hard to convey to, like, a manager or someone.

Yeah.

Personal stuff.

Yeah. Just personal little things that I want to do with my life.

That's cool.

Yeah.

What would you say is your superpower?

Empathy, maybe. And it's a powerful one. Yeah.

That's a very powerful superpower.

I feel like I've felt a lot of emotions, like, and I can feel them for other people. And I have friends that aren't anywhere near as, like, emotional as me, and I love that. And I can see it and, like, you know, the pure happiness and joy of, like, the amazing things they've experienced in their lives. And it's like so beautiful. But at the same time, like, I feel like I can just feel real sadness for other people.

Yeah.

Um, and like, it can really, yeah, consume me sometimes.

But it's a superpower. It can also be your kryptonite.

Exactly. Yeah.

So you got to learn how to manage it.

Sometimes. Yeah, exactly. And like be proactive on your empathy. Yeah, use it. Yeah, help someone, you know, see what's making them sad or whatever it is and be able to understand it enough within myself about what I needed to do at that moment and how I can help someone in that moment.

I like that. Who was the most influential person in your life growing up? and what was the biggest lesson they taught you?

My mother was the most influential person on my life. And she taught me, I mean, everything. But I think, you know, I'm. Two things are coming to mind right now. She taught me to never, like, put a limit on anything that I'm capable of. Like, according to my mom, I can rule the world. and having that sort of support makes you feel... When you ask, like, how did you manage to get through all of that when you were, like, putting yourself down so much? Just never believed that I couldn't do something. So she taught me that. And then I think through seeing my mother grow up and I think understanding the way my mother feels about herself, Definitely, like sometimes negatively impacted me, but I think in turn, now that I've understood it, has made me love myself for her, even if she sometimes can't love herself, you know what I mean? So I think that was something that is very fresh to me and I can see a lot. Wow.

That's cool. She seems like an inspiring woman.

She's incredible. My mother has done everything. She is just, there's no one quite like her. She's done a lot with her life.

Wow.

Yeah, she's very special.

If you were 30 years out and hypothetically, you're still here right now, but then you're 30 years older, 51.

Mm-.

And you were seeing yourself right now going through everything you've gone through in the last five years, especially in the last year. What advice would you give yourself now, with hindsight, 30 years out, for the next chapter of your life?

Just keep running. Try everything. What are you waiting for? I think I'm very excited for the next 10 years of my life. And I definitely have no idea what's going to happen. And that's so exciting to me. And I hope by the time I get to 30 years down the line, I've done everything, everything that there is to do in this world. And I've met everyone. And that's what I want to have achieved. I don't want to be stuck anywhere. I think I've relied so heavily on this really great opportunity that I was given so young, but it's like I want to run away from it and just live a normal life and see what I can achieve on that. Yeah, I want to try it all. I'm a very creative person. I hope. I've, I hope I've explored all of those avenues in 30 years.

Yeah.

That's good advice. I like that. I want to do a couple of final questions and we'll wrap things up. You've got a new startup called Daisy.

I do.

I just saw kind of behind the scenes of it. You were showing me a little bit of it. Looks really cool.

Yes.

Can you explain what it is and what your mission is and how people can get involved if they're listening or watching?

So I started Daisy for Artists and creative people, people always say, if you want to break into the industry, it's not what you know, it's who you know. And I think when you know nobody, that's kind of a very jarring thing to hear.

It's depressing.

Yes. So I wanted to create like a social media platform for artists and creative people to be able to discover and network other people across industries and collaborate with them on projects that, you know, they want to build. so whether that's like a musician who needs a videographer to shoot like a music video or it's like a photographer who's gonna shoot, you know, an artist in their new gallery or across industries and people being able to really like source these people that they need to be able to elevate the work that they're already doing. I think the key to success is like collaborating and finding new audiences. And I think the more people you can work with and the bigger your network can become, even if it's at a very basic level and like, you know, an amateur level. I think that's the sort of thing that really starts to catch people's eyes and help you break into the industry. So that's why we created it.

And, you know, all types of creatives can be artists to graphic design to photography.

Yeah, film, fashion, music, photography, art, literature, writing, everything. All of it across the board. We want you to be a part of our platform and we want you to find like-minded people and Find your place amongst, you know, I think a lot of creative people feel rejected from social medias like Instagram or, you know, they feel like they're not part of the cool club. And I think Daisy is really about celebrating that messy middle and giving these people a place to really express themselves and find the people that love what they do and don't think it's weird.

That's cool.

Yeah.

Right now it's in beta, but people can get on a wait list or they so I can sign up for the next one.

Yeah, so May will be when people can find us. We're www.daisy.com, Daisy with an IE, like my name. And you can follow us on Instagram, Twitter, see all of the updates, or join our mailing list. And yeah, you'll be in very soon.

In the club, the cool club. Artist club.

The club of like the anti-club.

The anti-club.

Yeah.

I love it. So daisy.com, D-A-S-I-E. D-A-S-I-E. D-A-S-I-E. Daisy on social media as well. Make sure you guys join that. That is happening right now. You also have a podcast that you're launching.

Thinking Big.

Thinking Big.

Thinking Big with Maisie Williams. Oh, snap. It's about childhood dreams and, you know, when you're a kid, what you wanted to be when you grew up and how that compares to what people are doing now. And then, you know, the idea of, like, from now, what's your big dream for the future and show that, you know, that Evolution never really Yeah, it's been really, really wonderful. I just speak to a lot of really creative people and I think it's really interesting to see that for so many creative people, it's like their career is taking off, but usually that means that you're sort of crying into a pillow. So it's interesting.

Really?

Yeah.

When their career takes off, they cry into a pillow.

Yeah, I think that was, isn't that a line from, I think it's Devil Wears Prada, something like, like if your career is going, well, I don't know. I can't, I'm gonna misquote it, but there's a really great line from, from Devil Wears Prada, just about like, you know, when your career is taking off.

Like your personal life is usually... Oh.

Your personal life is like suffering.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you put all your energy into.

Your career or your dream, but then... Finding balance. You lose yourself over here. Yeah, yeah. I think you talk to so many people and, you know, I've not talked to many for my podcast, but in terms of interviewing people for daisy.com and, you know, the magazine or the profiles and, you know, content that will all be up on the website soon. I think what I've really learned from creative people is that like, there's a lot of pain. That's what makes you so good. But that's what also, you know, tears you apart. Yeah. And trying to balance that is like the mission for so many people.

Wow.

Yeah.

And it's just like a constant like teetering on that scale of am I gonna lose it all or am I gonna be very, very successful? It's just always like that. And I think, you know, for anyone who wants to get into the creative industry is like, It's like that, you know? It's like people who have this drive and this mentality to go all of the way. It's like it's not within a lot of people.

It's very powerful, but it can be toxic too if it can control you and consume you. I mean, that's where you see some of our greatest, most talented artists of our generation in their 20s, 27 is usually the age where they kind of either go the other way through and make it through or they just decide not to.

And the amount of ADD brains that we've spoken to, people that like struggle with this disorder and it's like made them these like incredibly, incredibly creative people who are gonna do amazing things with their lives. And like, you know, it's very interesting what I thought ADD was and then meeting these people and realizing like, oh, it's people that don't have, you know, their focus yet. They don't have the thing that makes them tick yet. And when you do have that, you go on. Oh, my goodness. Yeah, people like, you know, this artist Chloe Wise who like hashes out of painting in five days and she's like this huge canvas and she's like that's it, I'm done. And then she goes on to the next one. And this is like beautiful, like it's like painted pictures of like pictures she's taken of her of her friends and it's like multimedia kind of. And she like will just go and paint and paint and paint and when she's done, she's done. She will not touch it again. She'll move on to the next one. You know, artists can't do that a lot. It's like a very interesting that's part of her brain that can just churn things out like that. It's incredible. It's crazy. Yeah. You know, you can't lock someone in a room and just say, like, paint 17 canvases. It's hard. You know, a lot of people can't do that sort of thing and find that sort of thing insane. So, yeah, I think it's been really interesting to me in seeing these Oddball people and realizing, like, no, that's what makes you successful. Yeah. And I think, you know, for.

For people, it's very important to find those Oddball things about yourself. Embrace them. Yeah, go all in. You got Daisy, you've got thinking big, Game of Thrones all happening right around the same time. It's gonna be very exciting next couple of months for you.

It is.

Is there anything else that you want to share or talk about, let us know about that we can support you with?

No, I don't think so. There's all of that crazy stuff going on, but I think just like, you know, to remember that. It looks all very superhuman, but it's just a girl underneath it all.

Just a girl looking at a boy. What's that line? What's that line? Asking him to love her.

What movie is that?

It's Notting Hill.

Is that Notting Hill?

Oh, that's here.

Yes.

We gotta go to Notting Hill soon. You do.

I gotta check it out. Yes, yeah.

I've been there before, but I gotta.

Go take some pictures. Go and see the blue door. Okay, yeah.

Travel books.

What's the line? Travel with a line? Just a girl standing in front of a boy. asking him to love her.

I love that we're in London. Okay, so we can follow you on Instagram.

Instagram, yeah.

Even though you wanna be less famous, boo.

I'm gonna be maybe like sort of drifting away from all of that sort of thing soon. Mazzy underscore, or Mazzy Williams, yeah, on most social platforms.

So if you guys, before she goes away from social media, go follow her right now. Take a screenshot of this video or audio, tag her on the Instagram story. Let her know what you enjoyed about this. I'm sure she'd love to hear the thoughts and feedback on this. So make sure to tag Maisie and let her know. I've got two final questions for you. This is called the Three Truths. Okay. So imagine it's your last day on earth 100, 200 years from now. You have superhuman strength. You live as long as you want. But then one day you got to call it quits, right? You got to move on to the next chapter. the next scene, if we want to keep it in theme there. You've done it all. You listened to your 51 year old self who said, go adventure, go do everything, meet everyone. You did everything you wanted to do. You live the most incredible life of your dreams. You look back, you have zero regrets. And you get to leave the world with three lessons, three truths that this is all they would have to remember you by. From every lesson and experience you've had, the people you've met, the things you've loved, the losses, everything, three things you get to leave behind for the world to remember you by. What would you write down as your three truths?

I think the first would be.

I.

Don'T know how to put it into words. I guess it's like how I'm remembered by other people. means nothing unless I feel good about myself. So I don't know how I turn that into like...

It's kind of like the opinions of other people doesn't mean anything unless you feel good about... Unless you love yourself.

Exactly. I like that.

That's a good truth.

The second, take care of the people around you. Put out good energy into the world. Be a beacon of light even in some of, like, real dark days that we're going through right now. I think the last one would be to look up when you're in the world, because I don't do that. And I think that we can all learn a lot from Realizing how beautiful this world is.

I want to acknowledge you, Maisie, for opening up. Thank you for sharing, even though I know you said you didn't want to be this vulnerable. I acknowledge you for your gifts, for being a beautiful young woman, for caring deeply about people. Because I think that's an incredible superpower, that most people don't have empathy like you do. So I acknowledge you for that. I acknowledge you for waking up, just realizing that way of living wasn't powerful for you and it wasn't helping anyone else. And now you can do some beautiful things in the world, even more so. I acknowledge you for all this. Thank you very much. I have one final question.

Okay.

And that is, what is your definition of greatness?

My definition of greatness is that feeling. the feeling of not being able to be brought down. And it's not arrogance and it's not disregarding other people's feelings, but greatness is a feeling that you can achieve anything, you can be anything. It's that feeling that will get you to that through that next hurdle. Greatness to me is like your best day when you wake up and, you know, my three truths that I spoke about, like, you're gonna do every single one, and it's gonna be like no sweat, and it's gonna be just a beautiful day. Greatness is that feeling that you get.

Amazing. Appreciate you. You rock. Thank you.

Thank you.

It's amazing.

There you have it, my friends. I hope you enjoyed this interview with Maisie such a young, incredible star who is tapping into her heart in a big way and inspiring the world. So grateful for her for sharing and for all that she's up to. Make sure to check her out on Instagram. Take a screenshot of this podcast. Let her know what you thought. Just shoot her a tag over there on your Instagram. Sorry. Leave a comment on some of her stuff and send her some good vibes and some good love her way. If you want to listen to the full video or watch the full video. You can go to lewishouse.com/784 and watch there. Make sure to subscribe to us on YouTube. If you listen on Spotify, you can listen to us there as well, SoundCloud and all the other places that podcasts are listed. Make sure to leave us a review. If you enjoyed this, please leave a review. It helps us spread the message of greatness far and wide. So head over to your iTunes app or your Apple Podcast app. and leave us a review over on School of Greatness. I know some of you are struggling, some of you are dealing with emotional anxiety, stress, overwhelm, some of you are dealing with insecurities, some of you are dealing with depression and other challenges. And Oscar Wilde said, To love oneself is the beginning of a lifelong romance. I can't emphasize how important it is to take care of of your own heart and your own thoughts and your emotions. The things you say about yourself, you manifest. So if you talk negatively and continue to say how ugly, how stupid, how unlucky you are, how undeserving you are of love, then you will manifest and create that in your body and in your environment. I used to be this way for many, many years. It used to cripple me. It used to always be anxious, stressed, overwhelmed. I used to always beat myself up emotionally and it manifested in other ways. You are so deserving of love, but it's your choice and you have to choose in every moment to love yourself or not. I choose to love myself. It's something that takes a lot of practice and was weird and unfamiliar when I started to do it. because I never really felt like I was deserving. But when you start to develop the habit of love for yourself, it starts to become a norm. And you look back after the years of doing it and you say to yourself, why did I ever beat myself up? Why did I ever doubt myself? Why did I ever question that I was deserving of love? It's something that is foreign. but then become so familiar and you're so grateful when you're in that state. So I want to remind you that you can have the most incredible romance if you just start loving yourself. And this doesn't need to be some egotistical love, but it can be a calm, centered love knowing that you are worth deserving of that love. And as Maya Angelou said, as you grow older, you will discover that you have two hands, one for helping yourself, the other for helping others. I think both are equally as important, but it's really hard to serve other people and humanity when you don't help yourself. I love you all so very much and you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.