800 Byron Katie: Enlightenment Is Within You

This is episode number 800 with Byron Katie.

Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur and each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

Byron Katie said the perfect world is created when the mind is free to see it. I am so excited about this episode. If you don't know who Byron Katie is, she is a best selling author, speaker and founder of a method of self inquiry known as the Work. She had her own revelation in 1986 when she emerged from a deep depression with the determination to question her thoughts. The Work is an embodiment of the wordless questioning that had woken up in her. She's been on Oprah, Tony Robbins is a big fan and has incorporated her work into his own teachings and over the past 21 years it has helped millions of people around the world begin to free themselves from stress free frustration, anger and sadness. And in this interview we talk about the ego, its power and why it must be questioned. We talk about questioning the thoughts that cause your suffering. Why for Byron, forgiveness is never necessary, what to do when you see something unjust in your life and how enlightenment is already within you. We also go through a little session where I do the work myself with Byron and this is pretty eye opening for me. So let me know what you think about the process when I start to go through this and do the work myself. Very excited about this one. Make sure to share with your friends. It's episode 800 guys, so if you've been here since episode one over six years ago or if this is your first time here, thank you so much for being here. It means the world to me. It blows my mind that we're at 800 episodes and we've got over 5,000 five star reviews. So if you haven't left a review yet, please leave us a review over on Apple Podcasts or any podcast app that you're listening to and let me know what you think. The Kia Sportage Turbo Hybrid has a.

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I'm super excited about this one. As you're listening, please share with your friend. You can take the link from the podcast app, copy the link text a friend who might be needing some of the work themselves where this could support people overcome their anxiety, their stress, their overwhelm, whatever it may be they're going through. Send them this link. You can copy the link in the podcast that you're listening to or just send them lewishowes.com 800-episode-800 is underway. Without further ado, let me introduce to you to the one, the only Byron Katie.

Welcome everyone to the School of Greatness podcast. We have the inspiring Byron Katie in the house. Thank you so much for being here. Very excited about this. I was just commenting on how calming your energy is and you've been doing this work. It's called the Work by Byron Katie for 30 years now. 20 something years.

30. 32 years or so.

32 plus years. And you were explaining to me for those who don't know your story, which I think there are actually a lot in this episode who don't know your story and the work that you've developed. You were just telling me it started from you being depressed 30 plus years ago, losing your identity and trying to figure out what you were going to do with your life, who you were asking yourself. Probably a list of questions I'm assuming, right?

Well, let's see. Should I backtrack A little, yeah.

Backtrack a little. For those that have no clue.

Yeah. So I was depressed for at least a decade.

A decade?

Yeah. Trying to raise three children and depressed and agoraphobic. That was not easy, raising children. But one morning as I lay sleeping on the floor, actually, a bug crawled over my foot. A cockroach crawled over my foot. And I was on the floor sleeping. Because I was so full of self loathing, I didn't believe I even deserved a bed to sleep in. So that's depressed. That's nuts.

So you're on the floor because you had a bed, but you were just like, I'm deserving of zero comfort.

Exactly.

So I'm a worthless piece of crap. I should sleep with the cockroaches.

Yeah, that's it. That's it.

When your kids were how old?

Actually, I wasn't sleeping with the cockroaches. I was just on the floor. And a cockroach would be the last thing I think I'd ever see there. So it wasn't quite like that. It just happened. One crawl over my foot and I opened my eyes. And in place of all that darkness was a joy that I'm still experiencing today. It doesn't change. It's immovable. It is. It's a possibility to live without depression. And that's why I love, you know, sitting with you. Because we can, you know, it's the possibility and where you've come from, you know, we're like double in it.

Yeah.

But I saw in that moment what is really important is. And what I'm doing here, and I would say in the world is what I saw was how the world was created. I saw without identification. So I wasn't really seeing. There was absolutely. When he crawled, when the bug crawled over my foot, I opened my eyes and no identification. And then I saw there was a window. And through the window there was a sky. And then there was like a roof, and then there were walls, and then there was. And I'm watching this and I saw that just prior to believing it was a window, it was a sky, you know, this, the floor. Prior to believing that it didn't exist. So I literally believed my world into being. And then the way I used to say it was, you know, without identification. And I began to laugh. And that was the first sound that came out of it. And it's like, I got the joke. I shared that with you. I get it. Oh, my gosh. And so it's like this body, this object, this eye, because I was still you know, like mindless. But it stood up. It walked into a bathroom and looked in the mirror, and I looked into the eyes in the mirror, but really, it was like it looked at these eyes and it was. It was like maybe that was the moment that. That. And something happened there. But it was like coming back in again and into. It's like being in a dream and then coming back. But what I was left with is that I came back to the dream, but you can never come back. So it's like living. And I can talk out of one world, but I can never be in the world. And I hope this doesn't sound too crazy for your audience the way I can honestly say that that doesn't matter. Everyone has a right to freedom. Everyone has a right to understand how to find freedom. And so that's what I'm doing here.

Wow.

Yeah.

So why do you think you were so depressed in the first place? Was it something that you were conditioned to feel as a child, or did it happen when you were an adult?

I can answer that question honestly out of experience. Why was I suffering? I would be leaving my thoughts done. That's all.

What were your thoughts? I'm worthless. I don't deserve this. I'm nothing. And why should I receive love?

No one cares about me. Life is hopeless. My children don't really care about me. No one really cares about me. On and on and on. And I learned that, listening to the human race, that there are no new stressful thoughts. There aren't any. In every language in the world, they're the same. And we are still stumbling over the things that were chiseled into rocks in. Gilgamesh is the oldest written story, and it's on rocks. So, you know, all these centuries, what.

Are the common thoughts that people believe in that are universal? I'm not deserving of love, or no one cares about me.

He doesn't care about me, or she doesn't care about me, or they don't care about me, or there's something wrong with me.

I'm broken.

I'm broken. I can't do it. This is too hard. Other people are smarter than I am. Other people are happier than I am. You know, just. It's.

Why are we conditioned to hurt me?

He broke my heart, you know, they.

Betrayed me or lied to me or. Why are we so conditioned to think those thoughts and then believe them?

Oh, I love that. You asked.

Why are all human beings. Why is this a universal thing that we do?

Well, because I think, let's say, Stephen's in the other room. And let's say I think the thought, he doesn't care about me. So I see an image of Stephen sitting in there in my head. Okay, now that's not now. For all I know, he left the room, went down the elevator. He's taking a little stroll down the street. But in my mind, he's sitting there and he doesn't care about me. Now, that's a part of it. And then there is, let's say, a situation where we were walking up here and he said something. And I think he doesn't care about me. He doesn't really care about me. So now I'm seeing Stephen in my mind's eye of the past. I'm seeing Stephen out there in the future. When I walk out, he's going to give me the look, of course, which he never does. He's not a good example of this, but he's handy dandy as we. As we talk, it seems. So I'm seeing this Stephen, this hurtful Stephen of the past, and I see this hurtful Stephen of the future. And I'm just blowing this interview because I am here, here and here. And so now is that the question is, you know, why are we bothered? Why do these thoughts bother us? It's like being on the floor where I believed there was a window. I believed there was the wall and the ceiling and everything. I believed. And you cannot see. You have to believe in something before you can see it has to be okay. And I invite no one to believe.

In your mind or in real life in your mind. You have to believe it's possible in your mind first, before you can see it.

You have to believe that it's a wall before you can know it's a wall. So someone taught you. No, no one taught you it was a wall. Someone said wall, and then someone said wall. And then your mother said, look at the wall, honey. And then you're dun, dun, dun, dun, dun. And then there was a moment you believed. And that was the first time you ever, ever saw a wall. You had to believe it before you could see it, even though your parents would. You could even say the word wall, but without meaning. So that's what I experienced on the floor. Okay, now what bothers us? Why does it bother us believing that past Stephen of the past Stephen of the future that I was describing? So now I'm sitting here. Oh, you know, I'm flawed, so I can't sit here and be present with you. Okay, so here's the question. You know I said earlier it was insane as we were sitting up, for me, it would be insane to be.

Out of now to think about the future. About what you're excited about.

Yes. And I can think about it all I want. You know, we don't do thoughts on purpose, so we're not thinking on purpose. Thoughts happen, it seems. But why is it painful? Okay. I have plenty of experience. This Stephen of the past, this Stephen of the future. I'm watching a movie now. I have three Stevens.

That one, the past, the present, future.

That one, the one I'm talking about. And so not one of those is Stephen. It's an illusion. That's what's meant by life as a dream. So I cannot focus on this interview because I am busy being thought, being image. The ego is extremely busy. And it's full time because it has got like, if you take my out, you can't take it out. You can't touch it. You can't make those Stevens real. It's impossible. So I can question them. I can question what I'm believing about the one that appears to be Stephen, even though he doesn't exist now. It can't be this one, because mind is not objective, mind is not physical. I can't take him out and say, see him?

You see, it's an idea.

Yeah. But I can talk about him. Talk about him till you kind of see this beast, this unfair beast. If I'm really on one, you know.

And Steve is your husband, just for those that don't know you.

Yeah, my husband Steven. And my husband, you know, I really can't claim him. So it always. You always feel that thing when speaking out of integrity can be tricky. That I. That me. You feel the word mine. Yeah. So with that going on, I'm crazy because I literally am here. I don't know what you're going to say. I don't know what we're going to do. I don't need to bother. Because waking up from all of that. Oh, you said something earlier that I wanted to address. Let's see if I can recall it. Ah. I can see those images, but they're not. There's no substance in them, so it doesn't matter. I can talk about past future all day long. It's just invalid. It's not. And you asked me earlier, what is my favorite thing to do? What do I love the most? And it was literally, it is literally being here with you. Because this is my world. This is my only world. There's water here. I don't Need a pass. There's a candle burning there. Oh, I too. I do. I remember. I do.

Powerful.

Yeah.

So how do we eliminate these thoughts? Or maybe we don't eliminate them. Maybe we just ask different questions about them.

It wouldn't be kind to eliminate the ego. You know, the ego has a right to life. It's just not real. I don't have to fight the wind. I see the ego as a child, like a willful child just fighting for its survival. And so I just let it play. And it's like, oh, wow, that was a good one. You know? Oh, my gosh, that was a good one.

How often does your ego play within your mind? Is it all the time?

The ego doesn't rest. But unconditional love, you know, love is the power. So when you're questioning what you are believing, you're literally not challenging the ego, but getting close to the ego and love being the power, you know, I'm not fighting it. I'm not fighting. I want to be as close as I can possibly be to it. I mean, it's the unreal, right?

It's not real. Yeah.

No. But anything with that kind of power that could create an entire identity is to be respected.

Wow. So it's not going to go away, Something to be respected. It doesn't have to have control over your feelings and emotions. Is that what I'm hearing?

Yeah. It will in my case. Until I loved it.

Until you loved it. So when the ego is coming up for you, something happens in your life. You feel betrayed or abandoned or you have a thought.

It's been a lot of years since you felt this. Oh, my goodness, yes.

Really?

So you don't feel these things anymore?

I can't say that. I won't. But so far, so good.

Wow. Okay. Well, when you used to feel these.

Things, I've got a lot of practice there.

And you started doing the work to where it was like, okay, I'm holding onto this thought that's not real. But it feels real in my body. Cause I'm tensing up my throat. It feels closing on me. I feel headaches. I feel overwhelmed and anxious and stressed. So how did you start to move through that quicker?

So let's say one of my children said, mom, you don't care about me. Okay, so have you ever had that thought about anyone? They don't care about you.

Yeah.

Okay, so let's say, was it a him or her?

I mean, everyone, you know, it's like, let's say a her.

Okay, so let's Take notes. Okay.

Yep.

So she doesn't care about you. So the work is meditation. So just be really still with the moment in time when you were believing that you're with her and she said or did something that prompted you to think. She doesn't care about me. Okay. Do you see that situation in your mind's eye?

Yes.

And I invite you all to find that if you can find and follow along with it so you see it. Okay. Now you were sitting on the couch in your living room. Living room. Where you were in the car. Or you were. You know, just notice where you were in that situation, because that is the focus we're going to anchor in. Okay. So be there now. So what did she say or do that led you to believe that I'm upset with her? Because.

Yeah, because she ignored me.

Okay. So just write down she ignored me and that's number one.

Okay.

Okay. Now, in that situation, all of you meditators out there, what did you want? So now.

Attention.

Yeah. So be there now. And you can see in your mind's eye you wanted. You wanted her attention.

Yes.

Okay. So I want her attention. Okay.

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What advice would you offer her? She should or she shouldn't to get what you want?

I'm just playing a game in my mind. Clear advice would you give her?

Well, really you're meditating in the situation. So the invitation for me is to be there now witness her.

Whether it was a year ago, 10 years ago, 30 years ago.

Absolutely. Yeah. It can't upset you if you don't remember it.

Wow. Okay.

So remembering being a state of mind in the present.

So go into that moment and that moment is the present.

Yes.

And then share it. Now what advice would you give her in that moment or the age you.

Are now to help you to get what you want in that situation.

Then would this be the advice you give that you're like, I'm 36 right now and my 36 year old self advice or like my 10 year old.

Advice if you were 10, be 10 and be there now 10 years old with that person just as they were.

So speaking to her. The advice that I would give her.

To get what you want, which is for her not to ignore you.

Okay.

Okay. And it's really helpful if you give useful advice. That's how to get what you want.

Sure. Okay.

All right, that's three. Now four. To be happy in that situation. So close your eyes and be there.

Okay.

Maybe you can do it with your eyes open.

Yeah.

Okay. So you see you. You see her and she's ignoring you. You see that? Okay. What do you need from her to be happy? What do you need her to say or do or be for you to be happy in that situation? And time.

For me, it would just be a hug.

Okay, so I need her to hug me now. Look at her state of mind. Is she open to that?

Yeah.

Okay, so I need her to hug me. Okay, so write down I need her to hug me. I love how you lingered there.

This is a. I felt like I was experiencing it happening.

Oh, so you're. That is. That's how to do the work.

Really?

Yeah. As though you're there.

No, I was in the moment and she just leaned over and gave me a hug and it felt beautiful. Yeah, that's the work, huh?

Well, so far so good.

Okay, Is that four?

Yeah, it's. It's pure meditation. Just to fill in these six. And they're always free on thework.com or byron kv.com. if I have anything of value, it is free there.

Great.

Okay, there's only two more. Five. So meditating there.

So seeing yourself experiencing the feeling of the action that you wanted to have.

Well, no. Let's just see what happens.

Okay.

Okay. Because it will show you. We don't have to second guess it. Okay.

Okay.

So. So meditating there, being there. Now she's ignoring you. Okay, so what were your thoughts about her then?

After I needed her a hug me. Step five. What were her thoughts about me then?

What were your thoughts about her then?

This is after I witnessed my experience.

No, you're really meditating. You're just filling in the worksheet now. So you're really meditating in. She doesn't care about me. No, what was it? She doesn't care about me. Number one.

Yeah, she ignored Me.

She ignored me.

I wanted her attention. What advice would I give to her that I wanted and that I needed her to hug me.

Okay.

That's what I wanted.

Yeah. So she ignored me. She's ignoring me. So be there now and witness that. What were your thoughts about her then? What were your thoughts about her then? Then she is or she.

She was overwhelmed.

Okay.

She was overworked, she was stressed, she was exhausted.

Is that what you were thinking then as a little 10 year old?

No, that's what I'm thinking now.

Okay, so go back. Then.

I think I would think like, she's overwhelmed.

So if you're meditating, you don't have to guess.

Yeah.

If you're being there now, look at the little boy.

Yeah. I would say she.

She doesn't care about me. She is angry. She is?

Yeah. I would say she's stressed. She doesn't care. She cares about herself.

Yeah.

She cares about her own stuff.

Okay, so she only cares about herself. You can see why this is private work.

Yeah.

And you may be the most heroic person I've ever met. But you can see, so far there are no new stressful thoughts. Every human being has these. Nothing. You know, we think they're so secret. No, they're universal. So, six, in that situation, what is it you never want to experience again? What is it about her or about that situation you never want to experience again?

I never want to feel ignored and lonely and worthless.

Okay. So write that down. You know, when we're angry, we are childlike. It's an immature state of mind. Anger is the effect. Hurt feelings are the effect.

What was that about anger?

Anger is. Is simply another word for fear.

Wow.

And when we're angry, we do childish things. We say and do things that are hurtful. And then we feel guilt. And guilt is the training ground for all the addictions that are going on. We cannot, we cannot see another human being and throw these thoughts on them like post its without suffering guilt.

So how do we eliminate anger if that's the thing that is the cause of guilt, shame?

Well, we'll take addictions. So let's take a look. Look at number one.

Number one, she ignored me.

So close your eyes. Be there. Now we're gonna do the work with that. Look at her closely. She's ignoring you. Look closely and don't change anything. She's ignoring you. Is it true? Mm. Is she looking at you? Is she doing something else?

She's doing something else.

Okay, and what is it, if you don't mind?

She's in the kitchen, frantically cleaning and organizing and cooking.

And you're in there. Okay. And she's ignoring you. Is it true?

In my mind, it's true.

Okay. And you can see because you're there. She's cleaning. She's doing all of that. You're there and she's not looking at you. She's not. So I'd say the answer is yes. We're only looking for the truth, right?

Yes. Yes.

Yeah. Okay, now notice how you react. What happens when you think the thought, when you believe the thought. She's ignoring you. Notice emotions first.

Yeah.

How does it feel?

Feels uncomfortable.

Okay, now, with your eyes closed, I want you to know why it feels uncomfortable. Look at the images that were happening then in that little boy's mind's eye. The images of past future. What do you see?

I just feel ignored. I feel alone. I feel like I'm not smart enough or good enough or interesting enough to have someone look at me.

Okay, now with your eyes closed, just listen to my words. You cannot feel that way without seeing images of what you just spoke to past and future images where you see, like. Let's say you see images where she doesn't care about you. And in the past where you were believing it. And then you see images of the future. Even if it's a nanosecond future, you see images of. She's not going to give you the time of day in that situation. So you see the images. See the little boy standing there, seeing her doing all that busy making. Now look at the images in your head. Past, future. Now that is the cause of your depression. That is the cause of. Of all your suffering in the moment. Now we're going to see if we can prove that out the fourth question. There are only four. Okay. You're that little boy. Who would you be without your story? Look at her without the thought. She's ignoring me. Just watch. And for those of you keeping up with this, you know, this is where compassion has opportunity to. To kind of shift into your life as an experience for those of you that maybe never even don't even know what the word means. Look at her without your story attached onto her. What do you see?

I see her dancing and singing.

Is that what she's really doing?

Well, that's the image I'm creating now.

No, see her then just as she was. Don't change a hair on her head.

I see her really frantic, stressed, overworked, only focused on herself. Yeah, and like out of control. Almost like emotionally out of control.

You Feel the intimacy. I mean, you feel connected.

I don't feel connected personally, but I.

Mean from here, witnessing that in this moment.

Yes. Yes.

Okay. Can the little boy see that too?

Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. That's where it comes from. Okay, so she's ignoring me. What is the opposite? Try. I'm ignoring.

From the boy's point of view.

No, from yours. As you witness that from both. Just go where you go. She's ignoring me. Turned around, I find an opposite. I am.

What's the example?

What do you mean?

Okay, I'm ignoring me.

So not she is, but I am.

These opposites are like. You're in a shoe store. You found a pair of shoes. You just really like. You really love them. But you've got to make sure they fit. So you're just going to try them on to make sure they fit. So we're just trying on opposites? She's ignoring me. Tarana. I'm ignoring her.

I'm ignoring her.

So now try that on. What does that mean to you as you look at her? What part of her were you ignoring then?

I think being compassionate towards what she was going through. I was ignoring her when she was wanting to be present with me.

Wow. Wow.

Yeah. When she was there for me, I was ignoring her. I was pushing her away when she was trying to give me love.

That's pretty stunning.

Yeah. Yeah.

Okay, she's ignoring me. Can you find another opposite? She's not ignoring me. Try that one on. Just try it on.

As like. I'm not ignoring her.

No, she's not ignoring me.

She's not ignoring me.

Yeah, see if you can try that on. Just be there now. Did she turn to you? Did she say anything to you?

Yeah, she turned and asked me a question, remember?

Can you recall the question?

How are you feeling? How are you feeling? Is there anything you want to say? Would you like to play together? Would you like to spend some time doing something together?

So she's ignoring me. Turned around. She's not ignoring me. She wasn't ignoring you. She was multitasking, right?

Exactly. Yeah.

Every mother isn't quite so in touch sometimes. So she was ignoring you in that situation. Is it true?

No.

No, clearly not. This is homework, literally coming back homework. Otherwise we miss the love of our lives and our identities is formed. We believe, you know, we look back at those moments that you've written on and we believe our thoughts then. And so when we think of that person, that's who they are in our world. And we try to forgive them, but we can See here, there was nothing to forgive.

Right. So we don't need to forgive.

No, she was there.

Right, Right.

A multitasking mother.

Right.

Wanting to know how you feel.

Right.

Et cetera. But you were the one that ignored her. And is she still alive? You still know her?

Absolutely.

Okay, so this opens the door for you to go back and just share with her What a difficult 10 year old that you're meeting today and make it right. And we don't say we're going to make it right. We just do. When she has something to say, it's just effortless to listen because we really get. So is she the problem or what you were thinking and believing in that situation?

What I was thinking and believing 100%.

So that is how I'm able to live in the world. And forgiveness is never necessary because in my world, no one has done anything wrong in the first place. Now that is really widening this field. And I don't wanna move too fast. You know, for those of you watching this, because it's just a few, just little doses at a time that are really gigantic.

Sure.

And also the next time you think someone's ignoring you, you may be more present with it and laugh.

Yeah.

And if someone's ignoring me, I've been spared anything I don't that doesn't anything in this world, if someone says, I never want to see you again, I've been spared.

Why is that?

Because that's the way the universe works. They're free. They're free of me. You want someone to be with you when they don't want to be with you. I mean, to just be so open is to give the gift. It's giving, giving, giving, giving without the slightest hesitation because you're awake to yourself.

Wow.

And not being attached to that feeling.

Who said, if we love them, set them free. It's like, don't leave me, don't leave me. This is all about me. You know, don't be happy, be with me. I mean, what kind of setup.

That's not unconditional love.

That's definitely not. That's taking prisoners. Wow.

So not to diminish my emotions or my feelings. In my situation, I was coming up with something that was resonating with me. Although I wouldn't say has consumed or controlled my life. My mother's amazing. But there's definitely something.

It has nothing to do with how the mind works. The most amazing mothers in the world are ignore me, you know, Because I don't question what I'm believing. I disconnected with my Mother. And I wonder why, you know, oh, well, she ignored when I was little. No. You know, and if she did, the answer is just yes. And we just move on with these four questions and turn it around. Let's look at the want. Okay, the second one.

Yeah. I wanted her attention.

Okay. Look at her multitasking.

Okay.

And look at her trying to connect with you. Like, are you doing okay? You want her attention? Is it true? So look, now you are a little more enlightened because you can see her more clearly. Her identity has shifted in your world and nothing can shift that back.

Right. For someone who might have a more. Not to compare cases, but someone who might have a more extreme case, whereas maybe the mother left when they were five or gave them up for a dump shooter or something more extreme happened.

Yeah. Well, this work is free on byron katie.com and there's no darkness. The mind has entered that you can't. This is like taking a flashlight in with you. And you're the power. Because the answer is within you is where enlightenment is. Enlightenment is not something that someone can give you. It's something that you know. The Buddha said that life is suffering. You know, discontent. There's suffering, discontent in the world. Well, I think we can all agree with that in this world, the world of as we understand it to be. And then the second noble truth is there's a cause to this suffering. You just set in cause. And it wasn't your mother. She was your push. And that's a good thing. You know, we talked about the push. So then the third noble truth is that it seems I got these on the floor and then someone told me about those. Stephen told me about the noble truth. And the third noble truth is there is a way to end suffering.

And what is that reason? How is that for you to question.

What I'm believing about?

You, me, the world, my ego, identity, everything that is.

If I'm not connected with you completely, then I look to this because I cannot change you. I like. I don't. You know, it's not necessary to go secondhand. It's like I start here just exactly the way you did. So that the third noble truth is there is a way out of suffering. The fourth noble truth for me on that floor, what I was shown is to question the thoughts that I would think onto another human being or world until I love it.

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Until I'm connected and anyone with an open mind can do this work.

Wow.

And you certainly have a taste. You're gifted with an open mind. And for some of us, it takes a lot of, a lot of stillness, a lot of, you know, meditating into that situation. You know, we had to be that still just to fill in the worksheet. In the first place.

Right. How often do you feel suffering?

I. You know. You know, I'm ready to say I don't.

Wow.

But I just really have to look at the question, you know, as I've been in situations to back that up, I've had those privileges in these 30 something years.

Wow.

And so far, so good.

And the fastest way to getting out of suffering is to answer the four questions.

Well, I would suffer if I believed what I was thinking. And if I believe what I'm thinking, if I'm suffering, I look to this for freedom.

Not to the world, not to external forces.

Yeah. The world can't give me what I need. And as a result, they give me everything I need because I'm so connected. There's no. There's nothing but that.

Wow.

You know, if someone walks up and slap me across the face, I thought, wow, isn't life good? It's over. I mean, how long does it take? It's over. But if I remember that nano second I held. Yeah. Of that past, then I suffered. Exactly.

So there's another parable story about, like, the two monks, that one monk was helping a woman, like, get over a puddle of water and put the woman on her back and carried her across the water so she didn't get wet and she complained about it. Or I'm butchering the story, but she complained about it and was angry at the monk for picking her up. And the other monk, a couple hours later, they're walking together, still fixated and focused on, like, can you believe you were so kind and generous and this woman was ungrateful. Can you believe this? And the monk said to the other one, he's like, well, I let her go, you know, two hours ago. Why are you still holding onto her? Yeah, exactly what you said. It's like holding onto the thought which makes us suffer.

But we have to, because those images are so convincing. There's all the proof we need, and that's the only world there really is.

How do we.

I mean, how do we let go of something that's so convincing?

World suffering.

Yeah. How do we let go of that imagery or something that we feel like someone did something to us. They hurt us, they broke up with us, they killed our cat. I don't know. Whatever it is, like, they did this to us.

Yeah. It wouldn't matter. Like, if someone killed my cat and I was upset. They killed my cat. Is it true? Well, it's obvious. We all saw it. He killed my cat. Okay. So, yes, it's true. He killed My cat. Okay. How do I react when I believe the thought? Hate, revenge, anger, the emotions. Anger, frustration, and then guilt. If I attack him and he's going, oh, I'm so, you know, I mean, you can't get away with it. You cannot harm another human being for any reason and not suffered guilt more afterwards.

Yeah. You might feel momentarily pleasure or an ease of something, but then the suffering expands.

Exactly.

When you retaliate with your words, your actions, it expands. Shame, guilt.

So how do I react when I.

Believe that if someone kills your cat.

Yeah. How do I react when I believe the thought he'd kill my cat? I see me in the past with my cat and. Oh, I see it laying on your stomach. Oh, my God, yes.

The joy, the comfort purring on you.

Yes.

Oh, and then I see pictures of the future and he's dead. And there I am in the future without my cat. Okay. Now, who could witness a movie like that without being angry and going after the guy? And these images act so quickly. We really think it's him. And this is the cause of suffering. This past, future, this dream, this waking dream world. That's the cause of my suffering now. So I'm going after him thinking I'm going to get some justice and to.

Get some, I'll have some peace once I do this.

Exactly.

It'll end my suffering if I end his life.

So how do I react when I think the thought he killed my cat? I see those, I go after him, I do what I do, and then I experience either frustration if I can't find him, or I experience guilt or both. And in the meantime, I'm telling you about this terrible man and you about this terrible man and this. So now it's a terrible world. There are terrible people in the world. You better be careful, they'll kill your cat. And so that is the believer. That's how believers have to live in the world. And it is not fun. I was one and I was.

That's why you're on the floor with a cockroach crawling over you.

I was, you know, on the bottom until I could see how what created the world of suffering? The world. So then I turned it around. He killed my cat. I kill my cat. Okay, how do I kill my cat? Over and over. That reminded me when you were saying he carried her across, but the other guy's carrying her for two hours, you know, later. So I'm killing my cat, killing my cat, killing my cat, killing my cat, killing my cat. And I don't even know. I think it's him killing my cat. He is the one. That man is the cause of my suffering. Whether I get even or not, that's the cause of my suffering. So.

So you reverse it by saying I killed my cat.

Well, look, I'm taking my cat across the pond with me.

The joy.

Yeah, everything.

Yeah. And I see the joy of the cat, and then I see the cat. Dad. And it is like going to a really good movie. And I'm here to invite people to wake themselves up from the movie and find themselves. To find themselves in a kinder world, a world that they are responsible for. I'm responsible for my world. No one. No. Well, I can't even have feelings other than joy. Like my true nature. I can't have any feelings, but that. Unless I'm attached to this dream that's going on now, this dream going on is not a terrible thing. It shows me where I'm asleep, and it's the invitation to wake up or suffer.

Let's stay on the cat theme. I don't know if you have a cat or not have had. You've had a cat. Let's imagine you have a cat or a person in your life that is like your person, your animal, that's like a part of your family, and someone does kill that person or cat or dog or pet.

It's the same. It's the same.

How would you approach that? Let's just say there's something so close to you right now.

If I did not understand, let's say someone killed that person or catch. I can tell you this out of experience. If I believed what that person believed, I would kill too.

Explain that.

Have you ever harmed someone?

Sure.

Okay.

Yes.

Now, look, just get in touch with what you were thinking and believing just before you said or did that hurtful thing.

Okay.

Now tell me where you had a choice when you consider what you were thinking and believing.

Where I had a choice or you had no choice. Oh, I had no choice. Tell me where I had no choice.

Yeah. Find it. When you consider what you were thinking and believing, how could you not have said or done what you did?

Right.

Because I believe so strongly in the anger, the frustration.

So did you have a choice?

I mean, yes, but I felt like.

Really?

I felt like I didn't.

Okay. Really? Look, what you were thinking and believing just before you said and did what you did.

Yeah. I believed so strongly in my thoughts that I had to react or say the thing or do the thing like that was justifying the thoughts and the feelings that I had. And the beliefs that I had.

So now you've met the rest of us. No one's guilty. Other than believing our thoughts, we're all innocent. We are under this, we're asleep to our true nature.

And our true nature is connectedness.

A connectedness and without division.

So when someone kills our pet or a person in our life that we.

Care about first I look to myself to see, you know, what was I thinking and believing. To let the animal out or to put it with that person. You know, I look around for my.

Part to take responsibility in the situation first.

Absolutely. And it still doesn't mean he didn't kill first.

Take ownership and responsibility.

Yes.

Even if it seems unfair and unjust and the worst situation in the world.

Absolutely.

And your greatest joy is gone. Take ownership and responsibility first.

Absolutely.

What will that do for you?

Where I took a shortcut and I knew not to. Now, how often in my life, how big a pattern is that in my life? I mean, cats are pure love. They're that push like everything else that, you know, what does it take for you to become self aware? And there's nothing in the world that is not giving that to anyone that gets a push in life. In other words, a sadness, a heartbreak, a push. So I look to myself and then if I. Before I go out, before I go after that human being, okay. And I mean, they're already gone anyway. And I'm sitting here, okay, Bereft, Okay? So what I'm thinking and believing about that human being belongs on paper exactly the way you dealt with it.

The person who killed the cat or the person.

I judged that person.

Okay.

And then I.

So you write down.

I write my judgment, what you're feeling.

About the person who did the evil.

I write down what I'm thinking about the person.

Okay.

Yeah.

Okay.

Who took the action, the harmful action. Okay. And what would you say? Who or what if someone killed your cat, Hypothetically, what would you say?

Kill my cat. Kill my cat. Is it true?

Yes.

And how do you react? Go back, meditate in that how you reacted when you believed the thought he killed your cat.

It didn't actually happen to me. So I'm trying to think of like, what would that be?

Okay, it really needs to be yours, you know, or you can do a worksheet on that person who is in such grief and you can be so connected that it's just. Oh my gosh. When you're of right mind, the people around you. Oh my God. You know, my short version is, can do no wrong. And they don't. Anyway, we're sleepwalkers, and it's up to our own self to wake us up. I had a kind of. I had a kind of. I had a kind of grace given me that I did nothing for.

You have grace for other people, a.

Kind of grace in my life. And I see clearly, Louis, that people, for example, you and you, are in me, meaning you are who I believe you to be, and you can never be more and you can never be less in my life. And each of us can say the same. So if I'm not connected with you, to get connected, I would do a worksheet on everything I think about you, fear about you, and the way we lined it out earlier. And then I would sit in that. And to sit in that is not to sit in you to sit in. That is to sit in what I'm believing about you, because that's who you are to me. So you are mine. You literally belong to me. So if I'm not connected and you don't have to be connected to me, am I connected to you? So then I sit and I question what I'm thinking and believing until I'm connected. And then let's say if we're friends, and I leave it to you to keep rubbing up against me, to keep pushing me, to keep pushing me until you no longer have that power, which means you won't change your patterns. But the way I see you has completely shifted. Just the way you saw your mother in the kitchen. And that's without limit. The slightest little rub can be like trivia. Oh, I won't bother questioning that. No, it's huge. Trivia will shift your life. Just put it up against four questions and turn around.

When you see something, let's say, in the world that you think is unjust or unfair or that you don't like. Let's just. I don't know whether it's a political person saying something you don't agree with or a friend or someone that you're not close with. You see someone publicly doing something you don't like. Do you kind of just do this in your mind now where it's like.

No, I change it if I can.

How do you change it?

It presents itself in the situation. It's completely clear. I'm in a fearless state of mind. I'm not running a story. That is my story. And as sanity would have it, we change what we can.

So you change the story.

No, no. It would be like. It would be like, if you, like, you're Lowering your hand into fire. And let's say something hot. I might just reach over and say, ah, look, honey, it's hot, right?

And try to change.

You change it physically, I change it. But if I am in a stone and you start to do that, go, oh, my gosh, oh, you almost burned your hand. And oh, and you owe me for being so smart. And, oh, it's a good thing I was there for you. And, you know, and if I don't say all that, it's like, you know, he's, you know, he should be thanking me. He gets me. Yeah, he gets me. Maybe he'll tell all his friends.

Why do we. That's interesting you said that. Cause as you said that, I see that I've done that in the past before.

There's no one human race that has it right.

It's like, look what I did for you. Like, oh, you wouldn't be as well off without me doing this nice thing for you or thinking of you in this way. And forward thinking of what I thought you were gonna put your hand in the fire. Yeah, I'm just as guilty of that now. You said that. I'm like, wow, I know I've done that in the past.

And just the slightest little thing, you know, it's the ego. Like, look at me, look at me. I'm so special.

So how do we get rid of that? Where we just want to, it falls away. We don't need that anymore.

Inquiry is a practice, and I invite people to just sit in this stuff that's free on byronkatie.com just to sit in it like 10 minutes every morning. And meditators that sit in incredible practices when the mind comes in to disturb that practice, just to notice what you're thinking and believing in the moment, just write it down and then come back to your usual meditation. Or just put that worksheet there that we just did. Just put it here and just meditating. Just notice what arises and fill it in. Because it is unfinished business if it causes disturbance within the meditative practice.

It's interesting. My friend Jay Shetty, who is a former monk, for example. Yeah, yeah. I don't know if this was his quote or if he got this somewhere else, but he said to me that you want to plant trees under which shade you don't plan to sit. Like you want to do things that could develop a tree that you may not get to reap the benefits from. You may not be able to sit under the tree or eat the fruit of the tree, but you want to be planting trees all over the place and not trying to be like, well, that's my tree that I help plant and I deserve to sit here and reap the shade or whatever the fruit. And I think it's so hard to. It's so hard to embody.

Embody. It's just such scarcity, as though there's not shade somewhere else.

Right.

And as though you have time to sit in the shade. It's just, you know, it's a dream and we can get. Become intoxicated with it. I'm so tired. I'm so this. I'm so that. And I planted the tree, and now there's so many people under the tree, there's no room for me. And, oh, boy, you know, just go find your own shade.

How do we tap into more of an abundant mindset since a lot of people.

Well, for me, in that situation, I would just see it and I would just walk up and say, does anyone here see a way of. A way that I could sit and enjoy the shade that wouldn't put anyone else out? So would we all just look at that for a moment? And if they say, no, there's no room here, how clear is that? I just find shade somewhere else or enjoy the sun.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. And then if I'm, you know, if I'm. The sun's beating down so hard and I've fallen to the ground and I just lay there, you know, I'm dying, you know, and it's unbearable. The worst that can happen is what I'm thinking and believing. That's it.

Right.

That's all. And a question mind is good company and it knows where to go. It knows where to find the shade, too.

A lot of challenges I see right now, and a lot of the content that does really well in the world online, let's say, is around relationships. I think this world is about relationships. You know, the relationships we have with other people and the relationship we have with ourself, the relationship we have with our thoughts, everything. That's what I'm hearing you say, too, especially in intimate relationships. What do you feel like is the biggest challenge people are facing with intimacy and commitment these days between intimate partners?

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I think just the thoughts that they're believing about their partners and it's attachment. To believe is to attach to a.

Thought, to an expectation or an attachment.

Yeah. What I'm believing. Like, he promised he'd take out the garbage. He should take out the garbage. Let's say Stephen says, I'll take out the garbage. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I promise I'll take out the garbage. Okay. And I wake up in the morning, and it's still there. Okay. So he comes in and he said, good morning, honey. And I give him the look. Why? Because in my mind's eye, I see the garbage, or I'm looking at it, and then I see the past where he said he would take it out. Now, am I giving the right man the look? In other words, am I punishing the right man, the one last night promised? So I am punishing the wrong man.

You're punishing the one in the moment.

Not the one I'm punishing. The one in my head thinking it's Stephen now. That Stephen in the moment. That's crazy.

Hmm. So how do we. How do we communicate effectively so that we're not punishing the wrong man?

Stephen? I noticed. I noticed the garbage is still here, and you promised to take it out. I thought I'd remind you. I'd really like it out. And then if he still doesn't do it, who's left? I'm the one that wants it out in the first place.

You can take responsibility and ownership.

Absolutely. If I want the garbage emptied, right? Yeah. We can just pile out. Pile up. I've got a choice, if I want.

You can deal with the smell and the look of it, or you can make a request and they can honor it or not do it. Or you can do it yourself and move on.

To punish another human being for what I'm thinking and believing, that's really crazy.

And it hurts you, probably too completely. So we're only creating more suffering for ourselves when we try to. When we're angry or punishing someone else.

To treat another human being in any way that is unkind in the long run is not just. That's why it hurts. We're simply in a dream world. Like a daydream, a waking dream. It's just like a night dream. And at night, when you're dreaming and let's say it's a nightmare. Can you. Do you want someone to wake you up? Yes. So in the daytime when you're in a dream, it's like, oh, he promised to take out the garbage and all of that. That's a daymare, not a nightmare. It's a daymare. But we can wake ourselves up simply by doing what you began today.

How do we eliminate, or maybe not eliminate. How do we not allow fears of the future to consume our present moment? Okay, I'm afraid my partner is going to do this in the future, I'm afraid. What if in five years, 10 years, it doesn't work out?

Yeah.

How do we not allow that thought of that movie running in our head to consume and cripple us from living in the now?

The only way I know is to make love with the story. It is to identify it, write it down, and question it. I like to say judge that person. Write it down, ask four questions and turn it around and have a good life.

And what are the four questions? Cause we talked about the six things.

Before the first one. Well, that's a way of lining out the thoughts in a story. If you just do one, there's an underworld there to deal with. So I'd like the whole worksheet. So you get the entire underworld, all.

People download of this too.

The first question is, is it true?

So, for example, your mother ignored you. Right. Okay, what if it's a fear? What if it's a thought about the future?

Same thing.

Okay, Is it true?

Same thing.

They're going to leave me or they're going to abandon me.

Yeah. You know, the love of my life is going to leave me.

And is it true?

Is it true?

So ask yourself the question and then write the answer.

And the second one is, can I really know that it's true? She's going to leave me. And you already see an image in your head of she's got her suitcases, she's leaving, she's got her tickets, she's.

Got another man, she's happier with someone else.

So that's what happens. So the third question is, how do you react? What happens when you believe she's going to leave you? When you believe that thought, how do.

You react in this moment or if it happens?

Well, how do you react? Let's say it's already happened or it's happening, you're afraid it's going to happen. The future, that's where we were with this. How do you react when you believe the thought? Well, Take your pulse already. You know, if you're really in it, you're anxious, you're worried, and how does the mind react? You see the images of what we just described. Her suitcase is packed, et cetera, et cetera. And then you see where you were so happy and she loved you and it's just like the cat again. And then as you watch this movie, that makes you the dreamed dreamer. It's innocent. But how do you react? You watch those images and then you feel the horror. Just like you're sitting in a movie and you cry or you laugh. Oh, you watch the movie. Have you ever been in a movie and cried?

Yeah.

Or laughed. It's a movie, it's a flat screen. It's, you know, it's a dream. So when it's in your mind, you're watching that past, future, and you're going to feel the emotions as you watch it. It's a dream.

So you want to feel the feelings?

Oh, absolutely. Oh, feelings have a right to life. They're so important. It's a beautiful thing. It's a courageous thing too, for some of us.

So feel the fear, the scary, the mess, the loneliness, the sadness.

And then look at the story that created it in your head. Destroying your head, the. That created it. Because it doesn't come. We're not just stricken with feelings out of the clear blue. There's a cause, just like the Buddha said. There's a cause to that suffering. The cause is what we're thinking and believing. So how do we deal with it? That fourth noble truth? We question the thoughts we're believing. The fourth one is who or what would you be without the thought?

The original thought.

Mm. The one you're working on?

Yeah. Okay. What would you be without the thought? That anxious feeling, that feeling of fear. You'd probably be a lot more loving and present and compassionate and so just look at. Just magnetic.

Be the little boy in the kitchen.

Yeah.

And we didn't complete that work either.

There's more work to do.

Yeah, she's ignoring me. I'm ignoring her. We talked about the nine day school earlier. On the other side of nine days, Stanford just did a test, a study on the last school, and it's just radical what people are experiencing. It's a beautiful thing. But all six of those, you know, one through six that you filled in on the other side of it, you've got the full stage story if you go all the way through. But there's also a one belief at a time worksheet on the website I'm.

Going through all of them.

Oh, my gosh. I'm going through all of them.

Now.

You are someone that would. Because the real challenge is inside, it's not outside. And then nothing can stop a fearless life. You know, I was, you know, this. This depressed woman in this. This on the floor and agoraphobic, and all of a sudden, my home. The windows are open, the doors are open, and word of mouth is happening. It was really before Internet was. People had all had computers and word of mouth just moving all over the world. And it was just. People would invite me to come, and I would just. I used to say, my name is. Yes. I don't want anyone. This is what we have in common, Louis. I don't want anyone to suffer the way I suffered. And I know a little about you, too, and it's not fun.

There's a cause to that suffering, of course.

Yeah.

There's a way out of that suffering.

Yeah.

And inquiry is one way. And, you know, there's so many beautiful ways in the world, and whatever works for someone, you know, that's the way. And this is. This is if people get really. It is a way. And if people get really, really, really stuck, it's always. It's always available.

Absolutely. Yeah. Thework.com, byron, Katie.com. what's the biggest challenge you've had to face in your personal life since you've ended suffering for yourself?

The thing most difficult is to try to articulate this experience, knowing that it's unnecessary to even speak.

Articulate the work experience.

Yes. Just talking like this. How do you simplify? Yeah.

Knowing that it's not even necessary to speak. Is that what you said? Because it just should be a knowing. Is that what you mean? Like we should just embody this already?

It is. And, you know, I could say I haven't spoken in 30 years and tell you the truth.

How so?

Well, where's my proof? I just spoke. Where's your proof?

It's being recorded. It's. I can play it back.

And all those images are coming from the past.

Okay.

And you're seeing the future.

Right.

And that's your proof? So what did you have for breakfast? Did you have breakfast?

I just had water and coffee.

Okay. And where's your proof?

It's in my belly. I don't know.

Okay, so you can hear.

It's in there?

Yeah. And where's your proof? You know, I'm not saying that people have to go this far with it. It's just being present. You know, I See that? If you ask me if I had breakfast, I know how to say yes, if it's true. In this world, in my world, in the world, I know the difference between the world, what people are talking about, and the truth. So I can say, you know, if you say, katie, do you have breakfast? I can say, yes. You know I did. And I can tell you what it is and everything. Just don't ask me if it's true or not.

It's not true because it's just an idea. It's just a thought.

I have no proof. I'm willing to say it's a memory.

Right.

It's a memory of something.

What is a memory other than the image I see of me having breakfast? How can that be me now? If this is me, mm. There can't be past, future, present me.

There's only me now.

If there is, this is as close as it's gonna get.

Right this moment. What inspires you the most? From all the work you've done and all the lives you've changed and the people you've supported over the years, even though there's no proof of that, what are you inspired by the most?

The human race.

What about the human race?

It's beauty. It's innocence. And also the infinite mind. The infinite mind. You know, you could do this. You could, like, do this work and have no attachment whatsoever, and it just continues to expand and expand and expand and expand. It doesn't need. It's infinite. And that's exciting. And. And I have found my attention. I have found. I don't quite know how to say, but I've been to some places that are just as real as now. And I can honestly say that after, you know, us playing in, you know. Yes, I had breakfast. Where's my proof? It's in my head.

Right, I see.

But I still felt fall. Okay. I'd have to believe what full feels like before.

I mean, it's an imagery.

Yes.

It's a story. It's a movie. Yeah, I hear you.

And it frees us up to live out our true nature. Our true nature being connected without prejudice to the human race and life.

Now, have you ever heard of a woman by the name of Mary Baker Eddy?

I have. I have. I had an aunt. Gosh, that's funny. I haven't thought about that for years. I had an aunt that was what she. Christian Science. Yeah, Christian Science. That's what she was into.

You remind me the language you use. I was raised in Christian Science.

Oh, wow.

So I grew up reading her books and her work. And she's a woman who found this religion, Christian Science, back in the 1800s, I guess, and it spread all over the world.

Now.

This is pre Internet, pre, you know, everything. And it spread based on the truth that she was sharing and the words you're using. Infinite mind, really? This is in her text. And it's all about the imagery. This is stuff I was being taught as a child. These ideas, you know, a lot of stuff that Dr. Joe Dispenza talks about. I don't know if you know his work. You both say similar things in other ways about the mind. The infinite mind.

It's probable infinite for me. Means it appears to go on and on and on and on, even though it doesn't.

Yeah. You should check out her book. I think you would really love it.

Yeah, my dead aunt for decades would love that.

It's a very radical way of thinking that helped a lot of people heal from their thoughts.

She's the one that, like, she was.

Very sick for a long time, and then she was like, how do I end this suffering, this sickness, this disease that I'm feeling in my bed all the time? And she started to really study her thoughts.

Yeah.

This is back in the early 1800s. And healed herself and then healed the world through her books and her message and her.

Healed the world within her.

Exactly.

Yeah.

Yeah. With their mind, with thoughts. So it's funny because this is something I was raised in, and the more I hear someone like yourself and Joe Dispenza and other people who are talking about these things, I'm like, this is stuff that I was learning as a child. But it seems so crazy in this religion for a lot of people to be, like, saying these things and having these healings and thinking these thoughts and having this imagery in my mind of going to these places that. And talking about it. People are like, you're crazy.

Yeah.

But now it's, like, more accessible, these ideas.

Yeah. Because it's your background and you. Yeah. Gosh, you know, that's a beautiful gift. I didn't have any religious training or anything like that. My mother sent us to Sunday school when we were little sometimes, and so I got to experience it.

But you tapped into the truth for yourself.

Yeah, I just don't want people to have to suffer to that degree. You know, I was in the hospital maybe three years ago because my system started shutting down. And evidently I was some kind of poison or something. And something I ate, I don't know. But of five of the major organs, they were all shutting down. And I was so fascinated with it. I just. Just didn't want to miss it. And so I just lay there experiencing it, you know, happily. And I guess that is the science of mind. I certainly don't want to talk about anything that's not my experience. So I lay there for about a week. Maybe it was just four days or something, but maybe a week. And before I would give Stephen an okay to take me to the hospital. And so he took me into emergency. They could not. Then that was more than a week. They could not stop that, stop him from just backing off, you know, they were just shutting down your organs. Yeah. Yes. And my children would come visit me and my grandchildren would come visit me and. And my friends would come visit me. And my family was not worried, even though the doctor said I was dying. And they had me sign a thing of do not resuscitate and all of this. And then Stephen, I didn't have. They asked me and I didn't have a preference. And he said I do. And resuscitator.

Wow.

And I thought, well, you know. You know, if that's what he wants, why not?

You were ready to go.

Well, it was a. Don't know for me. I don't know how they began to fail and I don't know if they want to come back. It's like a tree. You water it, you give it sunshine, and it lives or dies. So I just experienced it that way. And I only live because I believe I do. That's identification. And then at some point you stop believing that and you just don't belong to you any longer. You're too easy to talk to. I don't know what this is going to be like for an interview, but. Oh, my goodness. So. And it's a privilege to talk with you as well. They were going to try one last thing, which was to wash my lungs out. And I'm. And that's why I had to sign something way or the other before I went into that last ditch effort.

It could be over.

Yeah. Wow. And so one of my sons went in with me and we left through the whole time. And nothing changes. No. Fear can stop, you know, no question. There's no downside once the mind is sane. And sanity for me, you know, it's the absence of suffering. And what I see is beautiful. And there is nothing in this world that is not for all of us. And there. It's absolutely a gift. It's absolutely a gift. And there's nothing that isn't so if I see something that if I see a downside to life or a person or anything whatsoever, I would question what I'm believing with an open mind could be right, you know, But I'm going to test it. I think it was Einstein that said, an unquestioned life, it's not worth living. And I completely agree with you.

That's powerful. I want to respect our time. I have a couple questions left for you before I ask a couple questions. Everyone can go to thework.com or byron katie.com to get all these resources, download the worksheets, go through the guides, get your books. You've got a nine day workshop that's extremely powerful.

A nine day school for the work.

School for the work. So if you want to learn about how to use this more in your life and support other people, you're going to learn everything there.

We work on relationships and prejudice and the body and fear and terror. And it's an incredible experience.

All your workshop information is at your site so you can get all that information there. Sign up for the workshops. Are you on social media as well? Do you.

Yeah. I can't resist. I can't resist.

Are you on Instagram?

I post something on Instagram. Yeah. Because I can work that. And then.

So Byron Katie is at the work.

Gosh, I don't know. I'd say Byron Katie, my office will throw it into Facebook and the other.

Amazing.

Yeah.

Before I ask the final questions, is there any advice you have for me?

Oh my. Oh, my gosh. I love that you'd ask and I didn't even ask you.

I usually don't ask people. I usually don't ask people for advice.

But I feel like just keep doing what you do. Oh my. Oh, my gosh. I just. Your mind is so unlimited and so open. There's no, there's no end to that kind of gift. And the world can only fall into it because it's so open. We just have to. That's how it works.

Okay.

Oh, my goodness. Oh, my goodness.

I feel like you're so wise. I want to get advice from you. So I'm like, any words you have, I'll listen to.

Yeah. And anytime that you come up against a wall just to identify what you're thinking and believing in that situation and write it down and sit with your beautiful self.

Yeah. Or I'll email you or text you if I. If I need some real.

You know how to do that? Absolutely.

Okay, perfect. This question is called the Three Truths. Ask everyone. At the end, imagine this is your last day or 50 years from whenever, you just choose that you believe you don't want to be here anymore. It's your last day and you can choose the day. You leave this world and you've done.

Everything you want to do.

You've achieved everything. You've had the relationships, you've. You've lived the life. But for whatever reason, you've got to take your work and the work with you so no one has access to the information you've put out in the world. You've got to take it all hypothetical. But you get to leave behind three things you know to be true about your life. The lessons you've learned, your experiences, three truths that you would share with people that would be your message to the world. What would you say are those three things that you would leave behind and.

Share that people would understand that all problems are imagined.

Okay.

And that the universe is friendly. And that it's obvious to anyone with an open mind.

Those are three powerful ones. I like that.

I like the question.

Yeah, it's very simple. All problems are imagined. The universe is friendly. And it's obvious to anyone with an open mind.

It's obvious for anyone with an open mind to see.

That's powerful. Those are three powerful ones. I want to acknowledge you, Byron, for, gosh, your presence. You have a unique presence from the moment you came in, from our conversations to this whole time of being present and living in peace and harmony and seeing pure love in the world. I think that's very challenging for some who haven't done the work on themselves or who have been awakened to what's possible. And the fact that you are continually showing up and leading workshops and doing interviews and writing and serving humanity is, for me, so inspiring. So I acknowledge you for everything that you do and coming back from the dead to continue to serve and heal so many people. I really appreciate it.

Oh, thank you.

And I hope I see you many, many times from now.

Yeah, well, I look forward to that as well.

Yeah. I hope I see you more. My final question is, what is your definition of greatness?

Of greatness? Knowing oneself, to know, oneself.

Perfect. Thank you so much for being here. I appreciate it. Appreciate it. It's amazing.

It was fun.

Amazing.

And there you have it, my friends. I hope you enjoyed this one on the work. Free yourself by doing the work. Let go of suffering by doing the work, because enlightenment is within you. It's just about asking yourself certain questions, changing the way you think about the interpretation in your life what has happened to you, what's happening for you and changing it around so it's in your favor. You have so much potential within you. You have the enlightenment already within you. It's time to set yourself free again. Share this with your friends Lewishouse.com 800 or just copy the link on the podcast app that you're listening to, text it to one or two friends, text it in a friend group. Post it on your Instagram story tag myself, Lewis Howes and Byron Katie. Let us know what you thought. I'm sure she would love to hear your feedback on this. We've come a long way guys. There is a lot of things happening in the world and a lot of things happening in your world and the bigger the dream, the bigger the challenges and adversities that could potentially arise. More people start to attack you as you grow and as you improve. More people want to see you fail. You know, family, family members, friends, outsiders, people online, people are going to comment, people are going to judge. You get to do the work every single day to help you overcome anything that is keeping you back, that's holding you back from achieving your dreams and achieving that inner peace that you desire. Let go of the suffering. Free yourself. Enlightenment is within you. Byron Katie said the perfect world is created when the mind is free to see it. See the perfect world in your mind. Let go of the things that don't serve you and step into the life.

You were born to live.

I love you so very much. You know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.

Sa.

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