811 Find Lasting Love with Matthew Hussey

This is episode number 811 with New York Times bestselling author Matthew Hussey. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today.

Now let the class begin.

Lao Su said, being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. I am so excited about this interview. I've got my good friend Matthew Hussey on. The last time we did an interview was years ago and it went viral online. The YouTube video, the audio, Everything that this person does just seems to take off because he resonates so deeply with so many individuals. Now, if you don't know who Matthew Hussey is, he is a masterful speaker, a New York Times bestselling author, columnist for Cosmopolitan magazine, dating expert on ABC's digital series, what to Text Him Back. He's been on the Today Show probably a hundred something times all over the press. He started out in London as a one-on-one coach for men, often focusing on confidence issues that impacted relationships. As a result, he created Get the Guy, which focused exclusively on relationships for women, helping them to get the man of their dreams. The brand established Hussey as one of the leading experts in the field of human attraction in the UK and the US, and now he runs programs across the world, helping thousands of men and women reach their true potential. And 50,000 women have attended his live events, and he has reached over 10 million people people online. His social media is insanity. It's amazing the wisdom that he gives on his videos, on his messaging. Everything you do helps so many women around the world understand men better and really understand relationships better. And I follow Matthew personally. I've been following him for years from the man's perspective on relationships as well, trying to understand just relationships in general. So if you want to learn more how to become masterful in any type of relationship, whether it's intimate or a love relationship. He's the guy. He studied this. He's researched this more than anyone I know. And he dives into the human psychology and relationship dynamics in such a beautiful, powerful way. And in this interview, we talk about the power of having a true partner and what that can do for your life when you have that true the key to standing out in a noisy world of dating. There's so much confusion, so many apps, so much going on. How do you stand out and really become more magnetic? What it takes for both partners to be in a great relationship and how to grow and thrive together. The importance of investing in the story of a relationship. There's an importance behind the story you tell yourself in the relationship. And why the trash cans at Disney World moved Matthew and the parallels they have to all relationships. I am so excited. Make sure you share this with your friends. Tag every female that you know because this is going to blow them away and help them heal, help them find more peace and really help them thrive in relationships more than you know. Make sure to tag every girlfriend right now, lewishouse.com/811. Tag myself, Lewis Howes, Matthew Hussey over on Instagram, on Twitter, text your girlfriends, text all your friends the link right now so they listen to this. It will be a game changer for them. I promise it. Whether they're in a relationship, they're dating someone, they're married, they're single, this will help their life. So send it to them right now. Just copy the link, be a hero and a champion in someone's life by sending this to them ASAP.

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All right, guys, the power of finding and thriving with lasting love. I'm excited about this one with the one and only my good friend, Matthew Hussey.

Welcome back, everyone, to the School of Greatness podcast. We've got one of my dear friends, Matthew Hussey, in the house. My man, super pumped.

Back again.

Last time you were on was four years ago.

We thought it was three, and then I went back and looked at it. Crazy.

Yeah, crazy.

Four years.

And that episode blew up, and it continues to get a lot of traction on YouTube and audio. and you continue to blow up. You have a massive audience on social media, on YouTube, your email, you have thousands of women that come to your live retreats every year, thousands of people who are part of your courses and your programs, and you serve so many women who are struggling all the time in finding the right match for them, a loving partnership, and a man or a partner they want to be with. And you've been helping women for, I think, almost a decade now, is that right? Eight to ten years?

Over, yeah.

Ten years.

It's been over a decade now. This is the 10, this year is the 10 year anniversary of our retreats.

Wow.

And the retreat started, I don't know, three or four years into me doing what I do.

Wow, man. So you started when you were like 15 teaching women how to...

I was 18 when I started, but I was working with men then, not women. Right. I was 21, I really made that transition to working with women. And I've been doing that ever since.

That's amazing, man. And it's interesting, there's a lot that's happened in the last four years. Because Tinder really started exploding, you know.

Four years ago, I think.

It was kind of four, three, two years ago, there was coming around.

And perhaps lost its taboo maybe in that time.

Yeah, exactly. And then all the other apps came out. to make it more accessible to swipe left and swipe right. And Instagram became a dating app essentially in itself, Snapchat, and all these social media apps are just now dating and looking at, there's thousands of options. It seems like there's so many good options yet not one great option for anyone.

When you say, you know, they've all become dating apps, then it makes me feel we've come full circle, 'cause wasn't that the original point of Facebook? was to go on and see who on college campus is single, you know, who's that to me is who's a.

Cute freshman coming in?

Yeah, we kind of started there and we're, you know, it's now just many different ways to do it. Obviously, social media is used for many different things, but I think anything that makes easier the ability to meet people, you know, Cal Newport in his book, the Happiness Advantage, talks about the activation energy required for a task. And the higher the activation energy, the less likely it is you'll do something you want to get yourself to do. So he uses the example of like, if you want to play guitar, keep it by the couch so that when you sit down to watch the TV, oh, the guitar's there. If it's up in the closet, upstairs, and you have to go in, now the activation energy is higher, you're less likely to practice playing the guitar. And I feel like the activation energy of meeting people when people had to go out to a bar, you know, dress up, look the part, see someone across the bar, think about what they're gonna say, take the risk to get rejected in front of someone's friends or in front of their own friends, the activation energy was really high. And people, I think, whether they admit it or not, love the idea of the activation energy being really low that I can Slide into someone's DMs on Instagram and hit someone up with very minimal effort. I could be in my pajamas, watching, you know, some TV show doing that. And I've also minimized the potential rejection from that. The rejection isn't happening. It doesn't hurt. It's not happening in real time at the very least. You might have the rejection of, I never got a response. But it doesn't hurt.

Not quite. I'm looking someone in the eyes.

No.

Your heart's not beating out of your chest. It's not real-time rejection of, I approached you and you're now, being cold to me or you don't want to speak to me or you tell me you have a boyfriend or a girlfriend. That's like, I know you're lying.

Do you really have a boyfriend? How many times you go up to a girl where they say, I've got a boyfriend. Thank you. You're like, you,'re lying to me.

I just didn't do well.

I know.

So that is, you know, we've lowered the activation energy for meeting each other. And that, I think, has saved a lot of people. But it's also done something- It's hurt.

A lot of us.

It's interrupted a little bit, maybe a lot, the story of attraction. You know, I thought about this recently, how if, let's say before any of this, there was a man who meets a woman when they're out in some social environment, they exchange numbers, He goes home and he has to call her.

Right?

Now that takes guts. I have to pick up the phone, I have to have a conversation. And, you know, already I'm kind of investing, if you know what I mean. Before I've even made the phone call, I'm investing because I'm thinking, what am I going to say? And how do I come across right? And how do I still my nerves? That's a form of investment and we tend to value what we invest in. So I'm now already beginning to value this person more. because I'm having to try at something.

Because I met her, I got her number, exchanged information, and I'm thinking about the next step.

And even just, by the way, the meeting someone out and exchanging numbers, there's a story already happening there. It worked. I went over to someone and it worked.

And there's a potential for something.

Oh my God, yeah. She could have said no, and she didn't. And I knew, and I thought I was attracted to her, and I went over there, and I did the thing.

She confirmed it.

And it worked. And now I have a number, and this is a story that's happening. And you go home, you think about it, make the call.

You tell your friends about it.

Tell your friends, I set up a fake girl. I met this girl. I met this girl. You gotta hear about this girl. You gotta see this girl. Adding to the story.

Yeah.

Now you go on a date. That date, you have a great time. Where am I gonna take this person? What am I gonna do? After the date, you go home and you might have to wait three days or four days till the next date with this person. And in those three or four days, You may not consider it work, but you are working for that person. There's a chasing that's going on in your mind. There's an investment that's going on in your mind, an imagination, the narrative that's happening. And that is all part of that kind of natural courtship that pulls us into the next stage of the interaction, whether it's date two, date three, date four, exclusivity, moving in together, whatever it is. Now compare that with someone, you know, hits someone up, swipes, we got a match, okay, there's like no activation energy to that, really. We got a match, who are they? Okay, read their tagline, loves, you know, dancing in the rain, whatever they, you know, okay, yeah, well, yeah, so what's up? You all right? You know, you want to hang out? Then, you know, let's go for a quick drink. They get out together. He comes back or she comes back from a date to five more matches. Before he's even got time to process whether he had a good time and what was it about this person? There's already more options coming at someone. There's more or at the very least, you can go home and explore more options from your bed that night after a date. So it's interrupting the circuitry.

Which will give you more dopamine, which will give you more excitement.

Yeah, you're getting attracted to the novelty again right now, not the depth of where this thing might now lead. Now, I'm not saying that that's insurmountable and that we're just all, this is not me painting a picture of doom and gloom about current dating. I do think there is a toxicity, there is a toxic element to modern day dating. But I'm not defeatist about that. I just think that the impact we make on people in the time we have with them becomes that much more important. Because you can no longer rely on being the only person they're talking to that week or that month.

They might be at five dates that week and a hundred messages from guys.

And probably today, for a lot of people, It's less likely they're on five dates this week, but they're talking to 10 people this week.

Yeah.

You know, a lot of people are going on fewer dates than everyone thinks. People are having a lot less sex than everyone thinks. But what's happening is there's a lot of nonsense conversations. Superficial, you know, going nowhere, incessant texting conversations.

Crazy, right?

Happening.

And no one's actually even just getting on the phone and talking, are they?

Not unless they want to be different.

Right.

And that's where it really begins to shift, is you have to be the person who's different.

That takes a risk, stands out.

Yeah, well, and that's the current question, is in a world with more noise than ever, and for all of your people out there watching right now, everything I think we talk about here in this hour, we can apply to business too. Of course. We can apply everywhere. I get hired to go do speeches for corporates where I apply what I've learned in 10 years of attraction and relationships to business. 'Cause it's the same thing going on everywhere right now. There is so much noise. Everyone's talking in business too, right? It used to be that you were, you know, in a, if you were a personal trainer, you were competing with the five personal trainers on your gym floor and maybe down the street at the other local gym. And that was the, those were the people that were your competition.

Now everyone's a fitness trainer.

Now anyone with an Instagram account and a six pack is your competition. Who's trying to sell their digital program or trying to convince people that they don't need to go to their local trainer, that I might be the other side of the world, but I've got something special for you that you should do it with me. So the whole thing has opened up and what that means is that you can no longer rely on just the scarcity of people to be special. I'm the only one in town. Yeah, even if you live in a small town, that someone's options are only limited to the radius they set their dating app to.

That's it, right?

If I want to expand it out by another state, I got a lot more options.

Yeah.

We now can no longer rely on that. We have to be, we have to have a voice that defines us. We have to have a voice that makes us different, you know, from your business. How many podcasters keep joining every day, every day, every day? You no longer can rely on having the market share simply because you're doing podcasting. You have to now be a voice that's different. Why are people, people only have so many hours in a week, right? this is a long form podcast. It's, you know, the interview is an hour or so on. Why are people going to sit with their limited hours and listen to my hour instead of these other six or ten top podcasters? Because we can't listen to them all.

Right.

So now your voice matters. And in dating, our voice matters because it's not enough anymore to just be a viable dating option for someone.

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But do people even really want to stand out to have a committed long-term relationship or are they more just They say they want the commitment, but their actions don't back it with just constantly being surface level or constantly being a part of the noise as opposed to trying to stand out. I feel like they might try to, especially with guys, it's like, okay, maybe it seems like more women want to be committed than more guys want to be committed.

Well, that's a tricky one. People, I believe, who think they are evolved enough for a relationship or not.

Right.

And when do you know?

A long time, by the way, I count myself in that category. Me too.

Me too, man.

I really thought there were times in my life where I really thought I was a great guy. It wasn't that I was ever a nasty person. I was never a mean person. I was never a I wasn't the great partner I thought I was. It's not like I, there are times in my life where I thought, God, I'm just, I'd just be a great partner to someone. And I was not ready to be a great partner to someone because I think the first time you really give yourself to something, really commit yourself to not just your own happiness and your own needs, because that's what most people talk about when they talk about a relationship is, their needs, their happiness.

Right.

How good it feels to be in a relationship. It's about them. But it's not about seeing someone else, truly seeing someone else and understanding who they are and understanding what their needs are and supporting them and their happiness and their goals.

Is a great relationship. When you stop thinking about your needs and you just say, I'm going to give this person and look at them from a place of understanding and want to bring them so much joy and fulfillment and not expecting return, but hopefully the other person is saying the same thing about you.

Well, yes and no. There's a lot of, there are a lot of people who on that idea, that ethos, have lived a very masochistic life for a long time.

Really?

That, by the way, what you just described, could describe one of two things: one beautiful, one terrible. What you just described could either be an extraordinary relationship of two givers, or it could describe unrequired love. It could describe the person who is giving, giving, giving, giving, giving to someone and playing the martyr in their own relationship. They keep ignoring me. They keep you know, not meeting my needs. They keep being selfish, they keep, but I am just gonna show up and be my best partner. And love them and give my all, and one day they will turn around to meet me in that. Many, many people have caused tremendous suffering to themselves and wasted a lot of good years.

So is it both, give to yourself, asking for what you need, but also giving.

It's a combination of respecting what your core needs are. What do I need, like when it really comes down to it? What's my standard for what I need? Now, how exactly someone meets that standard is that's where the messiness of relationships comes in. 'Cause you say, I wanna be respected, and then someone does something and you go, I don't feel respected, but they go, But that doesn't mean a lack of respect to me. So now we have a whole conversation on the execution of a standard.

Oh my gosh.

And different definitions of what meets that standard. That's where the confusion comes in, and that's where we have to have some really loving, cooperative conversations to figure out Am I, you know, am I being, this is one of the hardest parts of relationship. Am I being reasonable in asking for what I'm asking for? Or is this my insecurity speech?

Oh, wow.

You know, am I, which one is talking? And sometimes we're so close we don't even know. That's the danger. That's, by the way, I see one of the most valuable jobs I can do for people in my work is not to be a smarter voice. than they are because people are people can be great. They can, when it comes to their friends or people around them or whatever, they can be very smart. But to be an objective voice outside of their drunken haze, because we're so close to something, we get, we're not sober and now we don't have logical answers to questions because someone's, we get to the point where arguing about something, I don't even know if I'm right. I don't know if the thing I'm saying is, if I'm being the insecure one or if I'm being the reasonable one. And sometimes we leave a situation and we go, God, I was insecure. And sometimes we leave and we go, I can't believe I let someone convince me I was crazy.

Right.

They were the one that was doing the wrong thing and they convinced me that I was nuts.

So how do we step out of that emotional feeling where we're feeling overwhelmed or disrespected or hurt or sad or like, the relationship didn't meet an expectation or communication was off and we're in it and we're communicating and we're both frustrated. How do you step out and look at it from a different point of view so that you just don't keep repeating that conversation over and over? I mean, don't hurt it further.

Yeah, I. I think there's a. We have to have a really healthy combination of always questioning ourselves and. And saying, where is this coming from? for me. And would it really hurt me to compromise on this standard? Is, is, would it be the more loving thing to do to understand this about my partner? But in order to that, that needs to be combined with a simultaneous respect for ourselves and what we need and to, I think, go to a situation and say, okay, I want to be the most understanding, compassionate, loving partner I can be who doesn't inhibit or limit my partner who supports them, wants them to do great. But I also need to recognize that I need to be the person that is understanding of the needs of my partner and what they want. But at the same time, I need to be understanding of my partner's needs. But the context of me being super compassionate and understanding needs to be that I am that this is happening in a loving environment where my partner wants to be my teammate. If we're in a situation where our partner isn't showing empathy for us and isn't like, if you feel they're not trying to, that we're always coming to that side, that's a problem.

That's tough.

That's a problem.

There should be seeing, I see where you're coming from as well, type of energy and communication.

Exactly.

Not just, I'm not getting what I want, you did this wrong.

You need to feel you have a teammate.

Yeah.

And a lot of people feel like they're constantly being understanding, but they don't have a teammate on the other side. I'm constantly trying to grow and understand your position, but I don't feel the same from your side. That then becomes a problem.

How do you have the conversation so that it switches or becomes more of a equal partnership and teammate? If you feel like you're the only one being on the team, How do you get the other person?

I think we need to communicate a lot about the spirit of the relationship. You know what I mean?

Not keeping score.

Yeah, pride is a very hard thing to give up in a relationship because we become competitive often very quickly when we feel threatened, when we feel vulnerable, when we feel our partner's done something to hurt us. Now I'm, now how do I score a point or how do I, and that's, that's a just once you get into that cycle, it's like you're just, it spirals. It has to, one person has to be prepared to break that cycle. I'm not going to do that game. And I do believe that we have to love the way we want to be loved, and we have to constantly educate our partner on what it is to love. Not from an arrogant place, but we're all, in a sense, both partners are always educating each other by, you do something I don't like, and if I have a loving, compassionate response to that, I'm also showing you what I want this to be in reverse. When I do something you don't like, here's the response I want.

Not attacking you.

Not a game playing response, not a, you know, like, if you see a partner, you're in the early stages of relationship, and you feel your partner was really flirting with someone over there, having a conversation about something that made you feel uncomfortable, but from a loving place and from a kind place and from a place of that made me feel. It hurt me to see that and not, I'm gonna blame you and I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna get angry. But that, you know, that made me feel uncomfortable, bringing an energy like that. Most people aren't used to that in a relationship. We're not used to that standard of communication. We're used to doing some- you- know that old saying?

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And then someone attacks us.

Reacting.

Yeah, exactly. So I think it's educate, we're constantly educating.

What's it going to take for us to not react to a situation where we feel hurt or like we, our expectation wasn't met from our partner and come from that place?

God, it's so difficult.

Because why do we react so much?

Sometimes it's just so like how I need to take a moment to process something so that I can say I can have a more evolved response.

And not react. It's funny, I've been, you know, the relationship I've been in, which is newer in the last five months, I want to talk about something right away and address it. She doesn't want to talk. She wants to have space so she doesn't react.

Yeah.

So she's, and she'll say like, I don't want to get angry at you. I don't want to yell at you. That's not the type of person I want to be. So I'd rather just not talk. And then I'm in limbo and I'm like, I just want to like get.

To resolve this thing.

Let's at least communicate and then we can move on as opposed to holding on to something for half a day or a few hours.

Here's the thing, space is easy when you get a text you don't like or when you see something you don't like from afar and you're not going to see that person for a few hours or till tomorrow. Now you have space to go through, you know, I'm angry, you know, I'm really, really angry, I'm upset, I'm sad, I'm hurt, I feel rejected, I don't feel enough, I, you know, you can kind of cycle through those and then have a couple of sensible conversations with people whose opinions you respect. You and I have-.

It's not that big a deal. Take a break.

You go, okay. This thing, I'm feeling this and I'm hurt and I'm this and I'm that and I'm that. And you have a couple of smart voices either that come from in here.

Which is hard to do.

Which is very hard to get that objectivity and or that come, you know, from just one or two people whose opinions you really respect who aren't gonna tell you what you wanna hear.

Yeah.

Who aren't gonna tell you, you,'re so right to feel that way.

Get angry.

Yeah.

Someone who is brave enough and close enough to you and smart enough sometimes to recognize, I'm concerned that you're overreacting to this. And that this reaction is not gonna serve you. And that I think you need to bring this energy to the conversation. That is extremely valuable. What's hard is when you get information in real time and you're with the person and you're in the same room, And now you're dealing with trying to process and create that, you know, okay, I need to, I'm trying to get to a more positive place here.

Yeah.

While being asked to communicate in real time. Well, real time elicits reflex responses. And reflex responses are often very harmful to a relationship. It's the reflex responses are often based on instinct.

Yeah.

The instinct is very, very dangerous.

False instinct.

Yeah. You're so often told, you know, trust your instinct. instincts. And that's just not often great advice.

If you're not emotionally intelligent and if you're jealous all the time, then having a jealous instinct isn't necessarily the best thing.

But some of these instincts are kind of hardwired, right? What we're doing with a lot of our better nature is overcoming certain programming that we have. In a riptide, you get pulled out to sea. Your instinct tells you in that moment to swim back to shore against the current. Ignore the riptide. I just need to get back to shore. Which is stronger, you or the current?

The current.

And it will drown you. You will exhaust and drown before you get back.

True. Until it washes you to shore, just like that.

Right.

So in that moment, Fighting harder won't save you. Thinking clearer will. And thinking more clearly means I need to swim sideways. I need to swim parallel. Let it take me out, swim further, or swim parallel. It's gonna be uncomfortable. Because I'm giving myself a longer journey. But then when I'm out of the current, then I can swim back to shore. Now, that's not... Instinct won't get you to do that. 'Cause that requires thinking clearly. Instinct will drown you in that moment. And in a relationship, in dating, your instincts will get you killed.

That's true.

You know, your instinct says, a woman goes on a date with a guy and has a great time. And says, your instinct says, clear the calendar for the next three months. We found him.

Right.

We did it, guys.

We had an amazing night.

Clear the schedule.

We were connected on every level.

He's awesome. We have a great connection. Clear the calendar. This is what we're doing now.

Wow.

Even if, I'm not even saying someone hates the rest of their life. You can like your job and still be so caught up in the chemical rush of this was amazing that this is all you want to do now.

Mm-. Right?

Well, this isn't good for what you want to happen here. what do you want to happen? Well, you want to get to know this person better, spend more time with them. Invest at an organic pace based on the level of investment that's going on. Right. Thing I've said for years. Don't invest in someone based on how much you like them. Invest on based on how much they invest in you. People don't do that. People invest on Instinct. I really like them, and my investment is proportionate to how much I like them. Not how much I'm seeing there's a mutual investment. Did I tell you about the castle?

The castle.

All right.

This is, you're gonna like this. So I was thinking about this whole idea of investment.

Like buying a castle?

Well, that's the thing. You can't buy a castle for a relationship. I see, to me the relationship is the castle. When you meet someone and you have a connection, because I'm always, you know me, I do seminars all over the world. We have thousands of women come and join us. And the thing that, there's always someone who puts their hand up and says, it starts the story. story with Mat. I have this incredible connection with this guy.

So they're already in re?

No, often not. Now I know we have a problem, when someone's justifying whatever they're about to say next, with what an incredible connection they have with someone An incredible connection is like you meet someone you connect and you have a great plot of land. This plot of land could be great because it's in the middle of a forest. Could be great because it's on the cliffs overlooking the ocean. It's a beautiful place to build.

That's the connection.

That's the connection, but it's still just a plot of land. All right, let's see it for what it is. It's potential. Still just a plot of land. Now what you need is two builders. Two people who are going to build something here. And that requires two people who show up each day and lay brick after brick after brick after brick and slowly but surely create a castle. Most people have the experience of someone who joins them on that plot of land and they both look at it and they're like, isn't this great? Look at the ocean. This is great. Look at the view we have here. Look at the trees. This is amazing. And they get real excited. Now, one of them might be willing to build. One of them might be a builder. The other one might just really like the potential of this plot of land. And then you have someone who's there building every day. They're doing the investment. I have the woman come to me who's building and a guy who's left the construction site. I don't know where he is. He's at home. He's binge watching his favorite show. He's out on another. He's looking at another plot of land, you know? And then three weeks later, he calls in and says he, you know, he sends a text to her after three weeks of ghosting her or just disappearing or just patchy communication and says, thinking of you. That's a builder who started building, then left the building site for three weeks. and called him from home and went, how's the castle going? Meanwhile, she's over there building the castle on her own. You can't build on your own. And the problem we have right now is there are too many people who value the connection instead of the castle. Castle is where it's at. And if you don't have a true builder who over time is going to build, that's what a relationship is. A castle. This is why love at first sight is bullshit to me.

Doesn't work.

I can't.

It's just whatever. It's infatuation. It's. She's hot. He's hot. You know, there's some connection there that's based on the fact you like this and I like this. Oh, my God. We're supposed to be together. This is only part of the equation.

You.

A castle becomes a castle because two people work on it and it becomes unique and ornate. And there are secret passageways only the two of you know about. And there's an argument that. knocks down a wall and then you build it up and fortify that wall and it makes it even stronger and the weather over time weathers the stone on the castle in a unique way that makes it your castle. There's other castles in the world but this one is uniquely yours. It's been built by the two of you. It's been hard. One. That's a relationship. That's why, you know, a 20-year relationship or marriage or 30-year relationship or marriage is is special is because two people have had to go through shit together.

Yeah.

They've done things together. This isn't fantasy. This isn't building a castle in the sky. The idea of love, the idea of what we could be. The one-day wager, I call it the one-day wager. One day, I'm making a wager that one day you'll be what I want you to be. you to be. One day you'll invest in me the way I want you to. One day you'll change. The one day wager is the most dangerous wager you can possibly make in your love life. The real shit is what's going on now. Is someone trying? Do they want to be here? Are they focused on the little shit, not just the big shit? Because anyone can go and have a, like people say, but when it's great, It's amazing. When we go, like, we go, we've been on some amazing dates or we did that vacation. We had the best time. It was amazing. Of course, you were on fucking vacation. Anyone can go to Disney World and have a great time. It's Disney World, right? That's the job of the place, is to make sure you have a great time no matter who you're with.

Right. Right.

You know what? When I was 13, I had a, like, when I was, I think I was 12 or 13, my parents took me to America for the first time. And we came to Florida. And where do you think we went? We went to Disney World. And I was massively excited. I was so excited. I was excited to be in America. I was excited to see the things I'd seen on TV. Excited to see the references to movies I'd seen, excited for the rides. We go into Disney World and I learned something very interesting about myself there. This is gonna sound profound for a trip to Disney World, but 13, yeah. I realized something about myself. 'Cause of course I go in there, it's magical, it's, oh my God, this is crazy.

Taking a photo with Mickey.

You're on Space Mountain. Yeah. Mickey there, there's all these dazzling attractions. But it was something that stood out to me even more than Space Mountain, even more than the big ride. And it was the trash cans.

Oh yeah.

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On some level that maybe I couldn't fully articulate at that age, I saw the trash cans and I was moved by it. I said, Someone cared enough about this.

Place.

To theme the trash cans. The trash can in Tomorrowland is a futuristic trash can. The trash can in, you know, Indiana Jones Land or whatever it's called is a tiki bamboo trash can. The trash cans were different depending on where you were.

It's amazing.

Someone cared so much about the detail of that world. that they styled and themed the trash cans. It moved me.

Yeah.

I've never forgotten that.

Wow.

The trash cans in life. And I've thought about that endlessly in my business. When I do retreat, I just got back from my retreat. And someone came. I told this story on the retreat. Someone came to me at the end of the retreat because of all the little details we put on the retreat, you know, the little. It's not just. It's not just a seminar or an event, we hold parties and inside experience. It's an immersive world. We like to think we've created the immersive theater of the self-development world. And someone came up to me at the end of this retreat and said, you, achieved trash can status.

Mmm.

That's big.

The 13-year-old in me wanted to cry.

That's amazing.

Right?

It moved me again and I thought, that's what I want.

And.

I thought about this even today as I was coming here and I was like, you, know what? This absolutely applies to relationships too. Often in a breakup, often when people are going through difficult times with their partner or whatever, the thing they go back to is we had that amazing trip. But we had those amazing times. They go to these highlights. They go to the Space Mountain of their relationship. Remember when we met Mickey? It's that, right? The meeting Mickey moment of their relationship. But relationships are about the trash cans, man. It's the trash cans.

Yeah.

'Cause guess what? In a day at Disney, you ride Space Mountain once, maybe twice. How many times do you use the trash cans?

Every day. All the time.

Every 20 minutes, every 30 minutes. It's the trash cans. And what will define your relationship is the trash cans, not Space Mountain.

The lower moments. The messy moments.

The moments that are barely noticeable. The moments, the micro attractions. The moment where we do something sweet, where we think of our partner when we didn't need to, and we worry about the day they had or support them or even just support them silently or in private, you know, or support them by what we don't bring to them. It's that. It's the detail. It's the detail. And that's what's going to determine how great your life is and My concern is, and we've all been there, my concern is the number of people out there who are staying in the wrong thing because of the Space Mountain of the relationship.

A few moments that were magical.

Or they're spending too much time grieving the loss of the wrong thing because all they remember is Space Mountain.

Interesting.

But they don't think of how shitty the trash cans were. And the trash cans, that's the stuff. That's the day to day.

Yeah.

How good was it day to day? This is the difference between being in love and being happy.

What is the difference between love and happiness?

You can be in love and be really unhappy.

Be suffering inside and be in love.

You can have constant. Be in love and be having a relationship that's causing you constant anxiety, constant heartache. Constant pain, feeling overlooked, not feeling important. You can be in love and all of those things still be true. How crazy is that? We think that love is this thing where it's like, it's rational, like, I'm gonna love, I'm gonna be in love with this person who brings me joy. Not true. And we need to start worrying more about happiness. Because if someone isn't building with you, If someone isn't committing to actually building the castle with you, that's the quality of your life.

Yeah.

Not how in love you are.

You might love certain things about them. You might have loved the date you went on. You might have loved the Space Mountain.

Or the-- Certain characteristics they had.

The sex was incredible.

How charming they were, how charismatic, how whatever. It didn't, but maybe, it doesn't mean that you're happy day to day. It's a big difference.

Right.

When do you know, I love this analogy, and it made me want to ask you about when do you know you're ready for a committed, intimate relationship? When do you know you're ready for it, as opposed to you just feel alone and you want to have someone in your life?

I guess when you're ready to build. When you're ready to build. When it's not, you're going there because the fantasy of it all is exciting to you. but when you're actually ready to build. And that doesn't mean that you're not looking, see the castle analogy is cool because when we were talking earlier about this idea of giving without expectation, well, you do expect something in a relationship, right? It's overly simplistic. We do expect things. We expect respect as loyalty defined on whatever terms loyalty means to us. love, appreciation, all of that to be seen. We have a lot of expectations in a relationship. So it's not a relationship where we just. We give without expectation. But that, to me, is where the building thing is really interesting to me, because you want to work damn hard as a builder in your relationship, but you want someone else who's building, too.

Right?

That's where the expectation comes in. I'm gonna. I'm gonna work hard to build this thing. And I'm gonna build it at a really high standard. I'm not gonna look at your work and go, well, if you missed out some of the grouting there, then I'm gonna, you know, like skip it on my end. No, this is my standard. I'm gonna build to a really high standard.

What if the person you've been with for a year isn't building to your standard?

That's a conversation. That's a real conversation. Like, here's what I need. Here's the kind of relationship I wanna have.

When do you start to just say, well, it's okay if they, do half the job that I do.

Is the job they're doing half fast one you really need them to do well? Or is it one that can be done half fast? Sometimes I think there are certain things we let go in a relationship. That's where the compromise comes in. That's where the sacrifice comes in. There are certain things I'm okay with you not doing as well as I once thought I needed someone to do them. I thought this thing was really important.

It's not.

It's not that important. I love you. So what are we doing? I'm not worried. It's not that big of a deal. And we've all done that. We've all seen those things that once were important to us and we let them, we say, you know what? I was at an age where I thought that was really important and it's no longer as important or significant as I made it. And then there are things that never stop being important or they become more important. The ability to communicate well. I think as you get older, those things become more important. The ability for someone to have genuine empathy, to the ability for someone in, let's say, an argument to not jump to saying a spiteful thing that's hard to then forget. Someone who doesn't try and do damage in an argument, but tries to build, tries to figure out, let's figure this out together. We may both be hurt, but let's come to this in a loving way. When you're younger, you say shit that's just mean.

-Hateful.

-Because you're hurt.

-Yeah.

-Right? And then you realize, oh God, three months later, they still remember that comment, even though they said they forgot it.

And they hold on to it.

They still have that in their head. I'm not doing that again. There's certain things I think as you get older, hopefully, if we mature, we start to see this is the important stuff.

What do you think are the, I didn't prep you on this before, but what do you think of the three or five components to a foundation of a relationship that has the potential to really thrive long term, committed for decades? What are like, it needs to have these three or these five things. Otherwise, it's going to be really challenging to be, to sustain this type of love and joy and happiness.

I mean, a couple of Simple ones, I guess, are I need to show up for my partner in ways that they need me to, not just ways that are comfortable to me. In other words, pay attention to what your partner actually needs. Because it's really easy to say, I'm going to bring them lunch every day. That's like, I'm a really good cook and I'm really, you know, I want to slave away every morning to bring them lunch every day, because you know, that's me giving. Maybe they don't care. They don't bring lunch every day. Maybe they don't care. Maybe what would mean the most to them is them getting home and you really being interested in their day.

Do you think love languages is an important part of this where it's like understanding someone's love language and giving them their top priorities?

I think that it's an interesting framework and it's been for a lot of people a very successful framework. I think any framework that just allows you to kind of create a little structure for things that gives you some simplicity around it can be valuable.

Sure.

And it doesn't mean it's the only framework you can apply, but it's a valuable model to work from.

So it's showing up in ways that they may not.

Yeah, not what do I wanna give, but what do they actually need.

And I think that's a lot of.

Conflict in relationships because, and I think you need to understand, do I wanna do something that's uncomfortable every day that's not foreign to me, or that's foreign to me, or do I wanna find a partner that enjoys the things that I like to give.

Well, that's an interesting question. I, you know, that might be a tricky relationship. I think the relationship is gonna be a bit of both, but sometimes it works even without, like, that's a kind of compatibility issue. I think it even works outside of that in day-to-day stuff, 'cause you might say, the thing I wanna give to my partner is an awesome night together, but maybe what they need is an awesome night with their friends. And maybe the most loving thing you can do is say, Hey, I know you haven't seen this person in a while. You should go and see them. I know that relationship is important to you. You should go and hang out with your mum tonight. Recognizing not what's easy for me to give, but what might be less comfortable for me to give, but is actually what would mean the world to them. And I think if you really want to make yourself irreplaceable to someone, It's recognizing that. Because no one else is going to do that for them. I mean, you know what I mean? It's, it's really rare to find someone who's willing to do that for you.

Okay, so that's number one.

The second thing is to work on yourself. And to say, I'm responsible for me. My partner isn't responsible for me. I need to do the work to be the most loving, confident person I can be in this world.

What are those?

Fulfilled, has their own purpose, has things that drive them. That, to me, is very, very important.

What's the first thing people should do to do work on themselves? Because you threw a few things out there, but what's like.

I mean, firstly, do you have. Maybe. Here's an interesting question you can ask yourself. If I had 10 hours free right now, What would I do with them?

Interesting.

If you can't give a good answer to that question, you might already be describing one of the weaknesses of your relationship.

And binge watching a series is not the best use of your time.

It's, you know, if the answer is, oh my God, will I have my purpose, the thing I love getting stuck into, or it doesn't even have to be some grand purpose. Not everyone has found like their life's calling, but it could be, I really want to learn this language or I really want to see this friend or I really want to go and, you know, whatever it is, read this book or learn this thing.

Take care of my health.

Yeah, I want to. I can't wait to get to the gym. If you should be able to answer the question of my partner canceled on me today. What would I do with that day now? And if you can't that, then you're. You begin to describe the person who's sitting there waiting for their partner to text them, waiting for their partner to make them feel good.

And that's not attractive.

It's not. And it's not fair to our partners. It's a lot of pressure. It's a lot of pressure. And, and by the way, people put a lot of pressure on their partners by expecting their partner to put a Band-Aid on all sorts of things for them. You know, if they're feeling like we, there's a lot of rhetoric about vulnerability right now. Now, I think vulnerability is huge. I think the work that people like Brene Brown are doing and so on is huge. It's massively important. Vulnerability is absolutely an act of courage and we should encourage it more, both sexes all the time. But his vulnerability is something's making me insecure and I'm gonna share it with you 'cause you're my partner and I love you and I tell you things, right?

But you don't wanna do that every day, right?

Vulnerability, if an hour from now I tell you, I'm feeling insecure again. And then an hour from now, you go, that thing's affecting me again. And tonight, because now in a way, what we're doing is instead of sharing, we're dumping. I'm asking you now to fix it for me, to put a band-aid on it for me.

Make me feel better, yeah.

Of course, it's part of our part, a loving partner will support you and will do everything in their power to make you feel loved and to make you feel safe and to make you feel secure. And it's absolutely true that sometimes what we're feeling as insecurity is because our partner isn't doing their job in those things. That's true.

They're not building.

They're not building. They're doing things that are proactively making us feel insecure. There's minor betrayals, minor neglects, all of that. But sometimes we have to say, okay, what part of this am I responsible for? and it's my, it's my partner's responsibility. It's our responsibility in life together to share, to share the load, to work towards things together. But it's not your job to carry the load for me. To carry my problems, to put the Band-Aid on every day.

I need to, maybe once in a blue moon.

Yeah, of course. Of course. And we, we're all gonna do that. We're all gonna have, like, we're gonna have days, weeks, times where we're going through something really serious and our partner's job is to show up. Yeah. You know, but a friend of mine who's kind of blunt said to me, some days or weeks you get to be needy and difficult and high maintenance and boring and, you know, insecure, and then you don't. And I thought, yeah, like, We get to be those things for a time until we don't, until it gets too much for somebody else because we need to be at the very least, we need to show our partner we're committed to our own growth. So the first one, what did we have? Show up in ways they need, not just ways you want to show up. The second one's work on yourself. I guess the third one To me, teamwork is everything. Like being a genuine team is huge. Really looking at each other as teammates, as opposed to you're there to meet my needs or I'm competing with you in some way.

Man, I've done that before.

Like we're an actual team. I saw, you know, one of the things I loved most about Chris Rock's recent stand-up, Tambourine.

I haven't seen it.

Such a genius name. The whole concept is about the idea that he couldn't in his last marriage play the tambourine. He couldn't play the backup instrument. Right?

Right.

And I thought it was such a great, great metaphor because in a good relationship, in a really genuinely mutually supportive relationship, some days you play tambourine, some days you're their teammate. You can't, you know, the way he says it, her success is your success. and vice versa. You're in this together. And some days that person's the lead. And you're on tambourine. And a lot of people have never learned how to play tambourine. There's the other thing, I don't remember where it comes from, but every relationship has a flower and a gardener. Most people don't want to be in a relationship where they're always the gardener.

They want to be the flower.

Never the flower.

Right?

Blooming all the time.

Yes, and sometimes you have to be the gardener. No matter how long you've played the flower.

Right, right.

You and I have played flowers a lot in our lives, right? We've been used to being a certain, having a leader role and having these kind of big lives and big worlds and whatever. And then you go to a relationship and the relationship doesn't give a f***. You know what I mean? What about you? No!

Yeah.

Okay, I'm glad you wanted to be a flower.

You know that you're the flower out there in the world. Sometimes in our relationship, you have to be the gardener. Sometimes you've got to play tambourine, even if to everyone else, you are the constant flower.

Right?

Movie reference, constant gardener. You can't be the constant flower. You might be in your business in.

Some way, but the relationship is different.

You can't, now you're coming as two equals. And so it's so much of it is checking your own Damn ego and being like, I'm in this to be with you as a teammate. Not this or this, this.

When do you know you've found your match for life or your potential match for life? You think this could be the match.

By the way, these are much harder questions than the first interview.

You know, is it when you see these three things after a period of time and you feel convinced that the bricks are being laid equally in a certain way.

Yeah.

When do you say, I'm ready to be committed all in?

I think there are four stages to a relationship.

Stage one.

Stage one is admiration. That's when you don't have a relationship with this person.

You admire, like, attract to you.

I look at you and I'm like, this person is hot. They have something about them. I like their qualities. I like their energy.

They have a good potential.

Yeah.

Okay.

And by the way, that doesn't even mean they have good potential for you right now. It just means this is a person of high potential in some way.

You admire them, yeah.

The second stage is connection. And you could, I think in that, in a sense, connection and chemistry are both relevant to this stage, because you have this person where there's a mutual like, I like things about you, you like things about me, I think you're attractive, you think I'm attractive, we share some common ideas, common grounds in life, our outlook, whatever.

Beliefs, yeah.

That could be found on a great date. Doesn't really mean much still. This is the plot of land.

Yeah, you can have great sex, there'd be chemistry, you can make out all night.

None of this means you're gonna have a great relationship.

Okay.

Maine, where life the way it should be transforms all who encounter its spectacular landscapes. Rugged coastlines, pine-scented trails, sandy beaches, sparkling lakes, and tranquil forests inspire you to reflect and make meaningful moments. They offer endless opportunities for adventure and exploration. Whether pedaling or paddling, hiking or biking, Maine has more than enough outdoor spaces to make the most of long summer days. relish in exquisite flavors harvested from the ocean and the rich soils of orchards and fields. Maine's makers are rooted in its heritage while boldly branching into new ways of thinking, doing, and being. Connect with its people in warm and authentic towns which beckon you to stroll art galleries and locally owned shops. Where generations of artists, writers, entrepreneurs, and craftspeople see the world anew. It's tempting to do it all when you visit, but take a beat and a breath. Get a feel for the time and tempo of Maine. Simple pleasures, scenic adventures, where every route is the scenic one. Discover more at visitmaine.com.

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The third stage is commitment. That says I want to do this with you. I am committed to building with you and you are committed to building with me.

Right?

That's a really great stage to be at. It's very important, right? It's. You can't have a relationship without that. Any relationship without that or where that's one-sided is unrequired love by definition. And there are a ton of people out there right now who say, I'm just. you know, I created a program recently called attraction to commitment, which literally dealt with why people keep getting stuck in limbo.

Yeah.

Why they keep getting stuck in the Casual phases and it never gets to a relationship. One of the things that fascinates me is how long we stay with something that's just casual, that isn't a real relationship on the hope that it will change unrequired love. you know, certainly unrequired commitment.

Yeah.

It's a nice time when you're like 23.

Right, right. That's stage three. Stage four is compatibility. And the hard thing, I think, for a lot of people is I used to question this one myself. Like, if, you know, the idea love conquers all, right, it doesn't.

It does not.

I wish. I like it. I like that phrase.

It's an amazing-- I love the phrase.

I love the sentiment of it.

It made me amazing bumper sticker, you know?

And there's nothing, you know, what is more powerful in the world than love.

And all you need is love.

Yeah, apparently not.

It's not true.

We need a little more. You can have love without commitment, right?

And.

You can have commitment without compatibility.

Interesting.

And this is where things get. I used to think, well, maybe commitment is enough, and maybe issues with compatibility can be overcome as long as two people are truly committed to each other. I don't. I don't believe that anymore. I. I think that it goes beyond commitment to truly last. You have to have two people who are really compatible. Like, okay, let's say we got commitment. Two people want to be together.

They admire each other, they have chemistry. They say, I'm committed to you.

But one person's sex drive is here, and the other one's is here.

Not compatible.

This is gonna be difficult.

One person likes to spend a lot of money, another person wants to save all the money. One person believes in a certain religion, another person doesn't believe in that.

One person wants to spend five days a week together, the other person is happy with one night a week.

Together.

One person wants their family to move in, the other person wants their space.

Right.

These are serious, serious issues that often end relationships. And so to me, you want to say what? How do you know when you found your match?

All four.

Four stages.

All four.

I admire this person. We have connection and chemistry. We have genuine mutual commitment. and we're compatible.

How do you know if you're fully compatible or somewhat compatible? And is there a spectrum of what's possible?

Yeah, that, I mean, I wrestled with that for years myself.

We're compatible here, but not here.

And can we overcome this incompatibility here? Is it, it goes back to, is it one of my deal breakers? Is it really important to me? Or can I let up here? And does the other person understand the sacrifice I'm making in letting up there? And do they show appreciation? Appreciation for it. And do they, you know, do they see me for that compromise that I'm making?

Or do they just expect you should do it easily?

Yeah.

You just, well, you should have. that's the way I am. So that's the way you should be.

Right? Yeah.

And to me, again, part of growing up is realizing I wasn't always right. I was, you know, there were things that I used to. You know, I. I've looked at ways that I've been in relationships in my past where I did something, and I just so thought I was in the right and so took for granted what someone else was doing for me, the way that they were being. forgiving, understanding, and just completely took that for granted, you know? And I think, man, I mean, you know, you talk about we were four years ago, we were together on this. What's the biggest difference in my life? Being humbled.

Also.

Oh, God. In so many ways. In so many ways.

Thinking you had it figured out in one way, but realizing that There was a lot of growth still.

Thinking you wouldn't experience this kind of pain or worry or anxiety or fear. And then, oh, it turns out I can feel that too. And those people who used to use the, that I used to hear using the word anxiety, who I used to think, why is everyone fucking talking about anxiety? And now you feel it with everyone. Oh shit.

Yeah.

The ways that you realize you're not You're more vulnerable than you thought. Mistakes you thought you'd never make, you make.

You make, yeah.

You said wear everyone else's mistakes.

Ah, man.

And then you make them. Things that were going well for you for a long time and then all of a sudden didn't go as well and you thought they were just always gonna go well. All sorts of things. You go, man. And that to me is what as you get older you hopefully, hopefully.

You.

You know, Socrates said the mark of an educated man is someone who has some awareness of how little they know. And hopefully, every year I realize how little I know.

Yeah.

Unless more and more I realize how much I don't know. And that has just, it's made me better. It's made me better. It's made me more forgiving. It's made me more empathetic. It's made me less judgmental. made me a better coach, a better speaker. Not to be so sure of myself about everything all the time, you know?

Yeah.

She doesn't always make for great Instagram quotes. I know. I know. If I know one thing, I know this.

Yeah. Well, yeah.

Maybe I feel I know less now than I did five years ago. And maybe that's a good thing.

It is a good thing, I think. humility is a good thing. We all need it at times. I'm curious, for all the women who come to your retreats who are suffering, they deeply want this love, this connection, this compatibility, commitment. They want all these things that we're talking about. And they feel like they've been struggling for years. They've done the dating apps. They've gone on hundreds of dates. For all the people at your retreats or the women who are watching or listening at home that just wanna find their match, their partner. What's the first step they can take to start getting out of the weeds of like failure after failure and start seeing some progress to greater potential matches.

Or... A couple of things. I mean, firstly, there's a guy called John K. Who wrote a book called Obliquity. And the whole idea of the book was obliquity is when you reach goals through indirect means. So if you take building a business, you're far more like if your, if your goal is to make money, instead of focusing on making money, focus on all the things that provide value to people.

Yeah.

Because the making money part will be the byproduct.

Right.

If you focus on, I need to get rich, I need to get rich, I need to get rich, you're probably not going to do the things that are going to get you rich, right? 'Cause what makes you financially wealthy, the relationships you take time to build, often for a long time, you don't ask for anything, you don't even care to, you're just building, you know, the products that you create for no reason, then you just think that they're great or that you think they have value or whatever the service that you provide people, it's just not, what's the quickest way for me to make money? Most people like that don't get rich.

Right.

In a relationship, there's all these things that build a relationship that really have nothing to, that don't feel like they have anything to do with a relationship. Like who would say, knowing what you would do with the next 10 hours of your life if it was free is actually gonna be a huge determinant of the health of your relationship. It's like one's over here and one's over here. Shouldn't we be talking about how to have better sex? Shouldn't we be talking about how to communicate well with my partner. No, we're talking about you being an independently attractive, purpose driven, independent person who is attractive just to watch from afar because of the life you lead. That's going to lead to a much better relationship. By the way, even that will lead to better sex. Yeah, because your partner looks at you.

And it's like, they're more attracted.

This is a person. This isn't just an extension of me.

Yeah.

This is a person. So it's the indirect things that contribute. And so let's now take that to the single place. I'm single. What do I do next? Understand and study, and this is a big part of what I do in my work, so I'd encourage people to come check that out. Study the things that contribute to getting you a relationship. that often have nothing to do with getting a relationship. The things you do with your spare time. If I want to learn yoga, do.

I do it on my own at.

Home with a YouTube video? Learning yoga, by the way, on its own could be a good thing just because it makes you more interesting, you have more to talk about, you feel confident in yourself, all of that. But okay, now let me do a more sociable version of that. Let me go into a class where I might actually have the chance of meeting other people. Maybe they're not men, maybe they're other single women, but other single women are useful too. Another indirect variable, because you have more single friends or more fun friends, more charismatic friends, friends who come knocking at your door going, Hey, we're going out. Get out of your goddamn pajamas. We're going out, right? That person is going to be great for your love life.

Makes you more desirable, have more value.

And makes you leave the house.

Yeah.

Instead of staying in every weekend, makes you leave and go to places where people are. the books you read. Who would say the books you read have anything to do with your relationship? But they do on a date when you have to talk about.

Absolutely.

Right.

So there's all these factors now. The reason I'm saying that, because of course there are direct factors. But look, my programs in my, my company, which, by the way, people can go to howtgetttheguide.com to go and find all of these. But the programs I have there are about very direct things, like how to flirt, strategies, how to meet someone, how to do this, how to do that. But that's one piece of it, right? It's. I encourage people to do all those indirect things, and then someone can't say, I'm just sick of going out. I'm. I'm give. I give up on what? On what?

Yeah.

Like, someone said that to me in a seminar. I said, I just feel like giving up. Tell me.

On yourself. On life.

What are you giving up? I don't want to hear this. Tell me, what are you giving up on? Well, I don't... Meeting people? Meeting people? Would you not meet people? If someone said you could never find the love of your life, that's off the table. Would you really stop meeting people? Your need for a human interaction would disappear? I don't think so. You'd stop flirting with people? That's part of your character. Being flirtatious is a part of who we are at times. So why would we lose that? Being sexual, would you really lose that? you're gonna stop being sexual just because the end result isn't coming. I don't buy it. You stop doing hobbies. You'd stop getting out there. All the things that you have to get rid of to say, I'm done with relationships are things that would absolutely erode your life, even if you take the relationship out of the equation.

Yeah.

So I think people have to. I understand. I know there is a terrific level of, like, dating burnout right now. And if you're out there feeling that right now, I urge you to think about this differently and to say, I don't have to constantly have it in my mind. I'm trying to meet someone. I'm trying to meet someone. I'm trying to meet someone. That game gets boring. And now when you go on a date and it doesn't go anywhere, you're a failure.

You're exhausted.

Yeah.

I'm done. See it as life. This isn't dating. It's life. It's meeting people. It's experiencing a great conversation, having a fun moment of interaction, of flirtation, doing things you want to do anyway, doing hobbies you want to do anyway, because they'll enrich your experience of life. All of those things are really important. You don't have to call it dating. Just go live.

It's kind of like the analogy you said about running a business. If you're focused on I need the relationship, whereas like I need to make a certain amount of money is getting the relationship as as opposed to, why don't I add value to the world and I'll attract the customers that will pay me and I'll make some money?

Because I need to make money focuses on things that make the short-term economics work. And those things are generally not good for a business. That's it.

All right.

Same in love.

I want to ask you a couple of final questions. This just came to me. I don't think I've ever asked anyone this, but since you're the love guy, I'm gonna go there. Typically, I would ask the three truths question, which is what are your three truths if it was the last day of your life? But I'm gonna ask you a different spin on this. Imagine it's the last day of your life and you've been in a committed, compatible, loving relationship with the woman of your dreams for the last 30, 40, 50, whatever years. And you've been a part of this journey and experience where you've built this incredible castle with all of its dents and wears and tears and love and magic and unicorns and everything. And it's your last day. And you've got to-- the lights are going to go off, and you're not going to be on this world anymore. And your partner has a few more years to live. She's gonna live a little longer than you. And you get to write three things, a love letter to your partner, about the three things you loved about her the most that brought you the most joy, the most incredible life from this relationship that you built together. What would you say or write to her are the three things you love the most? about this woman that she would remember and go on for a few more years afterwards.

But that would be specific to a relationship, right? To a specific person?

To that relationship, yeah. To that person and the relationship. Imagine the relationship is everything you could ever dream of. You created the relationship of your dreams. It's the golden standard for the world to look at a relationship and say, wow, they lived it. They did it, they loved, they went through it, they were vulnerable, it wasn't perfect, but man, this couple is the golden standard.

Man, okay.

What would you say are the three things? So I want you to go there, because I believe you're gonna create that in the relationship that you wanna create. So what were the three things you would write a love letter to your wife on your last day about the three things you appreciated the most about the love you created together?

That.

You made me feel safe enough to be the best I could possibly be.

You.

Your love made me feel so secure, gave me such a platform to go and make an impact in the world on that.

That.

And I. Don't get me wrong. I think we should have our internal security, but. I felt so secure in the relationship that this gave me, this relationship gave me the energy to go out there and do amazing things with that energy. So I made a bigger impact in the world because of the energy that your love gave me.

I'm getting chills already. This makes me emotional just thinking about it.

You didn't have anywhere to go from there.

So safety, security.

That you, you made me feel.

Like.

I wasn't alone in the world. And I don't just mean because we had each other. You can feel very lonely in a relationship, especially if you don't feel seen. But you find someone who sees you. who really gets you. And all of a sudden you don't feel so alone in the world because life is lonely. You can have tons of people around you, but there's a certain existential loneliness that many people feel in life that for moments or times evaporates when you feel a true connection with someone and you see each other. You go, wow, this is, that to me is transcendent. So you, your ability to see me made me feel less alone in the world. And I guess you were a role model for me.

Wow.

That through observing you and seeing the way you live and seeing the way you approach things, that there were so many times where I noticed you were better than me. And that taught me how to be better. It taught me how to.

You.

I grew. because I saw the way you were.

Wow.

And that showed me, no matter where I thought I was, being around you showed me how wonderful people can be. And that made me want to be more wonderful. I guess those would be three beautiful love letters.

What's the letter you would write to yourself? You're a 200 years old. It's the last day still. And you write a letter to your 32-year-old self. 32 now?

31, 32 in a couple of weeks.

You write a letter to your 32-year-old self and say, one piece of advice looking back at what you'd say to yourself on how to become the best partner to create that magical relationship.

One thing I would say looking back at myself, saying, Here's a piece of advice to being...

Here's what you need to do to become that partner with that other person. Here's what you need to let go of. Here's what you need to step into. Here's where your ego needs to take a check.

I think, how many things do I get?

Give yourself a few.

Let's do a couple. I always loved just the idea of question everything. That thing that you take for granted that you're right about, you know, question everything. 'Cause it's, I mean, it's just amazing to me the things I look back on now and I no longer agree with what the 23 year old version of me thought, the 25 year old version of me thought. And I think understanding that, at least We're not very good at thinking about all the ways we might be wrong today. But we're really good at knowing the ways we were wrong before, right? And it's more, that's, you know, if you think of a lot of self-improvement people, right? Gurus, leaders, whatever, you know, people want to call themselves, they struggle, they're very good at telling stories of how they fucked up. Ah, five years ago or 10 years ago.

But now you're saying- you- should have seen me then.

Many people are good at talking about today. And I think that that's a kind of blind spot we are, most of us have in life, people in general. And I think if we can apply that thing of, oh yeah, God, I was so wrong about that five years ago. I was so, I couldn't be more wrong about that. And I know that now. We should apply that to the next five years too.

Yeah.

You know, in the next ten years and say, there's a lot of shit I'm gonna look back on five years from now. and say, God, I did not know what I was talking about. That doesn't mean we should not trust ourselves on anything. You know, there's, I've heard it said, you know, strong opinions Loosely held. You know, it doesn't mean we shouldn't be passionate about what we think now, but it does mean we should leave room for questioning. And to that end, I think I would tell myself to, to be kinder to myself over the course of my life for things that mistakes I'd made within relationships. I have definitely been the person and even today have to wrestle with doing something that I know, oh, that wasn't the best reaction to that. I wish I'd have handled that differently. I wish I'd have said a different thing. I wish I'd have phrased that differently. I wish I didn't say that. And then really, really beating myself up for it.

Yeah.

You know, not letting it go. Even after you've finished the argument, even after you get to the other side.

Holding on to it, yeah.

Continuing to berate yourself for it. And the shame about that is that it lacks humanity. It makes us forget that we're human. and that we don't get everything right. And the only way we're gonna get more right is by making certain mistakes and learning from them. That's true. And it also stops us from being effective because that energy that we're putting into berating ourselves is actually stopping us from doing the very things that would move everything forward from that mistake. It doesn't make relationships better. Mistakes actually make relationships better. very often.

Because you learn, or you hopefully you'll learn.

You learn. Those things, they really can transform, mistakes can transform relationships, but not if you sit there consistently dwelling on them. They make relationships better if you can improve from them and move on and be the thing you want to be now. So I think I would tell myself to be kinder to myself. for mistakes. To not obsess over things I should have said or done differently. You know what, to that end, we should, halfway through this interview, I was kept losing my train of thought. And probably you were gonna edit that out to be kind to me.

Because, like, Don't beat yourself up over it.

Give people the real shit.

Yeah.

Matthew Huss, he's really eloquent. Look at the way he could string a thought together. Well, I lost my train of thought three or four times. I don't know what happened. I don't know what happened. I couldn't think of the thing I was going to say next. I kept blanking. Okay, show people that. That's inspiring. Oh, f*** Matthew, Aussie can be in the middle of an interview and just go completely blank and not know what the hell he was saying.

Yeah.

Then what am I worried about?

Yeah.

That's more interesting. And that's, you know, that's a real relationship.

Yeah.

Real relationship. That's the real stuff. That's the stuff we're not seeing when we see other people's relationships and everything. Things are great and everything. No, this is like, if we want to, if we want to change our world, forget the world for a moment, because it's always seems a bit grandiose when we talk about changing the world, but changing our world. Let's bring in the real because that genuinely changes things. You know what makes relationships better? True realness, vulnerability, people living their truth, people being more real, being more upfront, more direct. You know what makes you more attractive on a date? Being more real. Not going there. You people worry about their hair and is this all right? Tell a real story on the day. Yeah, that's what's gonna. You want to talk about deep attraction, not surface level. Deep surface level is in 2D on Instagram. Deep attraction. The kind of attraction that gets relationships comes from real stories.

Yeah.

Real shared experiences. And if you want, and if you do want to change other people's worlds, as you know, because you're so good at it, it's bring people the real.

Yeah.

Because that's more inspiring than the. guy who sits there and does great for an hour and always knows exactly what he's going to say.

Perfect person.

Yes.

It's not as interesting. I love this, man. Those are good insights for you. Hopefully that's helpful for your life, reflecting on that.

Yeah, you've, I mean, that was, yeah, you asked a hell of a question. You're great, though, man. You're great at what you do. And I have to, I know that you, you say a lot about, you know, I hear you talk a lot about gratitude and you ask people questions constantly. about that. I have to share my gratitude for you while we're here to honor you to your audience because you have, you know, I've been through difficult things and I've given you the phone call at difficult times in my life where, you know, I'm like, Louis, I need someone to talk to, man. And you've given me the time, sat down with me and been a voice for me. that is sober and out of my own head and been truly kind and wise, which is a good combination. When someone's not just being kind to you, but they also are saying things that are very, very astute and helpful. And you've been that for me in some really difficult moments. And I remember in those moments thinking, God, I'm so going home and thinking how grateful I am for that friendship. and hoping that more people get that for themselves. Because it's a tremendous thing when you have it.

I appreciate it. It's been a beautiful four years.

It really has.

I'm excited for 40 more, man.

I'm excited for 40 more. Paint on the wall.

I mean, we gotta keep building. We gotta keep building.

And I'll say to anyone out there right now who's watching, because I want to, I'd love to give you a way to kind of continue the journey with me, if I'm resonating with you. There is a wonderful video. I do my retreats twice a year, as you know. They're a six-day program and I urge anyone to apply for that if you can create six days to transform your life.

It's a game changer.

Please, please, please apply. That's at matthewhusseryretreat.com, but I also created an at-home version of this for people who aren't able to come to the live event. And you can obviously go and do that program and I would encourage you to do it, but what I've done is taken a training piece from that. And I'm giving it away as a gift. And that's, I literally bring a woman on stage, this beautiful, gorgeous soul, Alexandria. I bring her on stage and we really transform her perspective and her confidence in a kind of very relatively short space of time. And people can see what's possible for themselves in their confidence by watching this video and by watching the process. that I take her through. So get that.

That's it.

Get Matt's secret.com Matt with two T's. Get Matt's secret.com you know, just go there, put in your email address. You can download, you can be watching it immediately five minutes from now. But it's very, very powerful. And for anyone who's like, oh no, you know, I wanted more of this. They can, you can go and get more there.

Yeah, and subscribe to you on YouTube because I watch your videos and I'm not a girl.

Girl.

You know, they're four women, but I'm like, I learned so much as a man being in a relationship. When I was single, I would watch them when I was just learning so much. So it doesn't matter who you are. I look forward to every Sunday to getting your email for the videos. So make sure you guys subscribe there. Matthew Hussey on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, and getmattsecret.com. a final question for you before I ask it. I gotta acknowledge you, man. for constantly being a powerful voice in the world for so many women who are suffering. You mostly work with women and there's a lot of women, I think, who are just suffering because they don't know how to get out of their own way. And you help them gain the confidence by focusing on their life and taking responsibility for their life and giving them strategies and tools to really attract love, committed, compatible love. and I think at the end of the day, we all want that connection and that intimacy and that love. And you're providing a safe environment for women to cultivate that within themselves and truly love themselves first so they can attract a partner that they want and equal what they want. So I acknowledge you, man. It's amazing. You've been committed for a decade plus now, and you haven't slowed down.

So thank you. And I want to say to, I really appreciate you saying that. I don't want to say to out there. I'm, I mean, I'm on the journey with you. Like, I'm not, I'm not coming from here. I'm, I'm right there with you doing the work for myself.

Yeah.

I'm my own experiment all the time.

You're not perfect.

Life's hard.

It is, man.

Life's hard. And I'm working on it. But I encourage other people to come and, you know, work on it with me.

There you go. Your, my final question is, what's your definition of A great relationship.

I think it's got to be one where one plus one equals three.

There you go.

Yeah.

Matthew Hussey, my man. Appreciate you, brother.

Appreciate you.

There you have it, my friends. I hope you enjoyed this episode. Blows me away every time I hang out with Matthew. Every time I watch his content. So make sure you subscribe, check out all of his work, and make sure to share this with a friend. You can really help someone find more peace and more love in their life by sending them this link to the audio episode. Lewishouse.com/811 is the link, or you can just copy the link on the podcast app that you're listening to this, text some friends, do this right now, post this on your Instagram, story, share it all over social media, spread the love on how to find lasting love.

That's right.

It's all about finding love. That's really the purpose of why we're here. It's to be love, spread love and receive love. And I know some of you have been struggling with this. I've struggled with this my whole life. And I don't want you to struggle anymore. I don't want to struggle anymore. And I don't want you to struggle. So take action on this. Let me know what you enjoyed about this the most. Make sure to tag me at Lewis Howes and at Matthew Hussey over on Instagram. And I'm sure he'd love to see your responses as well. Check out one of his live events, his retreats. The guy's doing some incredible stuff and you can go to his website as well. All linked up over the show notes, lewishowes.com/811. You deserve to be loved. You deserve to be fully seen and you deserve to give love and experience.

It at the highest levels.

I'm not saying it's going to be easy. I'm not saying there aren't going to be challenges and adversity. But at the end of the day, without love, what are we really doing here? Without loving yourself fully, without finding other people to love around you and finding someone into to love as well. There seems to be more stress and more anxiety in the world without that. The core of what we want is love. And Lao Tzu said, being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage.

I hope you have the courage and.

The strength today to be love and receive love, because I love you so very much. And as always, you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.

What'S up, podcast listeners? It's tanks, host of the it's me, tanks podcast. Join me weekly on it's me, tanks as I dive into topics like relationships, why it's okay to feel lonely, fighting summer comparison, and pop culture's hottest takes. I don't shy away from getting candid about my personal experiences, and I want to share all the advice I have learned with you. I'm even joined by of my friends like Claudia Oster, Connor Wood, and Amanda Hirsch each Friday for our new Office Hours episodes. You can listen to It's Me, Tank! every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday wherever you listen to podcasts. And don't forget to follow the show so you don't miss an episode. Earn a Business Degree on youn Terms At Capella University, our FlexPath format is available in select programs and lets you learn on your schedule. A different future is closer than you think with Capella University. Learn more at capella.edu.

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