838 Marianne Williamson On Running for President and Standing for Love

This is episode number 838 with number one New York Times bestselling author currently running for the Democratic bid for president, Marianne Williamson. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur.

And each week we bring you an.

Inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. Oprah Winfrey said, you, greatest power is to show love, to receive love, and to be love. And Albert Einstein said, Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding. Love and understanding is something that we could all use a little bit more of. It could support us in our inner peace, and as well as Humanities piece. And today we've got Marion Williamson, internationally acclaimed lecturer, activist and author of four number one New York Times best selling books. She's been one of America's most well known public voices for more than three decades and has counseled many leaders in a variety of industries ranging from business to culture to politics. Seven of her 12 books have become New York Times best sellers. She founded Project Angel Food, a meals on wheels program that serves homebound people with AIDS in the Los Angeles area, as well as co-founded the Peace Alliance. She's been a popular guest on TV like Oprah and Good Morning America, and again is currently running for the Democratic bid for president. In this interview, we talk about how public policy should uncap people's dreams and not limit them. The source of emotional disconnection for most people. and how to find that source and start tapping into it for good. The power of inner work when you are facing daily trauma. What to be ready for if you live a meaningful life and how to fail well. How to train yourself for love every day and so much more. Also, Marianne shares some of her biggest wishes and biggest fears as well leading into this campaign. and if you enjoyed this interview, if you feel like it's brought you inspiration, you've learned something from it, please share it with one friend today. Send them the link to this episode on Apple Podcast or Spotify or wherever you're listening to podcast, or you can just text them the link, lewishouse.com/838 and send it to one person today you think would find this fascinating, inspiring and helpful. And now let's dive in. I'm super excited about this incredible insights in this interview. Make sure to let me know what you think over on Instagram @lewisowes and Marianne Williamson as well. Without further ado, the one and only Marianne Williamson.

Welcome everyone back to the School of Greatness Podcast. We've got the iconic Marianne Williamson in the house. Thank you for being here.

Thank you babe for having me.

Yes, I think we've only been around each other four times that I can remember. One time was, I did an introduction I think four years ago when you were doing Congress Okay. Touring in California. And then I had you on my podcast three years ago and that blew up online and people love that. Thank you. Maybe one other time, I can't remember, but maybe this is only a third time, but I really feel like we've connected. Yeah, there's a record. Beautiful way. You have an amazing soul, amazing heart. I'm very grateful for your leadership, for your inspiration. You've paved the way for so many people like myself to do what I do. And it's inspiring that you are, 12 or 13 books?

Yeah.

Many books.

14.

14, who knows? Number of them on the New York Times bestseller list. You just had your birthday.

Yeah.

Can we say how old you are?

67.

67 years young, I love it. Wise. And you're running for the presidential campaign.

Democratic nomination for the presidency.

It's amazing.

Yeah.

At 67, you continue to inspire us. You continue to live your message and your truth.

Thank you.

And I think it's a really cool example that you've set. So I wanna acknowledge you first off.

I appreciate that. On behalf of all women, I appreciate that.

Yeah, of course. And I wanted to ask you first about suffering, 'cause I feel like it seems like to me, more and more in the last five years specifically, people have been suffering internally. And it's caused a lot of external damage in their relationships, their families, their physical health. the war and communities and the war in the world. Do you feel like people are suffering more now for specific reasons or is this always been happening for forever?

Absolutely. They're suffering more now.

Why more now?

Because of bad public policy, particularly economic. You have millions of American people who are living with chronic economic anxiety. You have a situation where 1% of Americans own more wealth than the bottom 90%. There are millions of people who live with the chronic concern, what will happen if I get sick? What will happen if one of my kids gets sick? How will I send my children to college? How am I ever going to pay off these college loans? This kind of pressure, that kind of economic pressure, day in and day out, that sort of has you trapped, is debilitating. It is emotionally and psychologically debilitating. People who have careers like mine base our work on the effort to be of use and of help to people who are suffering. But I heard a story once that very much reminds me of how I see my own journey. And it's the story that I, if I were to title it, I would call the Transition to the Conscious Samaritan. So we all know the story of the Good Samaritan. The Good Samaritan walks down the road, sees a beggar and gives them alms. And then the Good Samaritan continues down the road, sees another beggar and gives that beggar alms. And then the Good Samaritan continues down the road and sees another beggar and gives that beggar alms. At a certain point, the Good Samaritan says to himself, why are there so many beggars? That's the conscious Samaritan. So in my life and in my career, I understand things happen. People die. Divorces happen. All kinds of personal crises occur. And I understand that the transcendence of that suffering is an inside job. But what I've seen, particularly in the last 15 to 20 years, is how much of that suffering, that anxiety, that tension, that depression is because of very unnecessary circumstances of hardship, given that we are the richest country in the world. I've realized that people who are spiritual facilitators, coaches, those psychotherapists shouldn't have to be constantly picking up the mess created by a political system that does more to advocate for short-term profits of huge multinational corporations than to advocate for the health and well-being and the safety of us, the people, and the people of the planet and the planet itself on which we live. When you have millions of American children going to school every day In classrooms that don't even have adequate school supplies to teach a child to read. And if a child cannot learn to read by the age of eight, the chances of high school graduation are drastically diminished and the chances of incarceration are drastically increased. And I'm working to help assuage the pain of the mother of that child, but it's public policy that is determining the fact that millions of American children in the richest country in the world go to classrooms where there aren't even glue sticks and paper. We have children in America who are on suicide watch in elementary schools. We have millions of American children who ask their elementary school teachers whether they have some food for them today.

Wow.

What I just described to you would be human suffering that could not be helped if we were living in other countries. This is the richest country in the world. So that is an example of huge swaths of suffering that occurs in this country for no other reason there's no reason than bad public policy that is so skewed towards those who already have. She's saying that it's unnecessary.

At the expense of those who do not. Absolutely unnecessary. You have this much money, kids should not be suffering. Thank you.

That's what you're saying. Thank you. When other countries have less money and their kids are safe and they feel- We have plenty of money. We're just giving it to a top swath. Many of the individuals in that top swath would agree with everything we're saying here, by the way. Not every rich person is greedy, not every poor person is noble and pure.

It's not people who are rotten here, it's systems that are rotten.

It will not be changed unless we the people step in.

Is it systems or government or policies responsibility to support the youth or is it parents responsibility to take ownership of their life and get a better job.

And educate the children? That's really easy for you and me to say, Louis.

Right, right.

That's really easy.

But I was saying whose responsibility?

Well, yeah, that's really easy for you and me to say. First, the answer has to do with whether or not we believe in the mission statement of the United States, and I'm sure that you're big on mission statements, as articulated in the Declaration of independence. So this is what the Declaration of Independence says. Number one, all men are created equal. Number two, God gave all men the unalienable rights of life and of liberty and the pursuit of happiness. And number three, governments are instituted to secure those rights. And if government is not doing it, so says the Declaration of Independence, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it. Now, I'm not saying we should abolish it, but alter it to be, yes. So let's look at those millions of American children. They're full-on citizens of the United States. But they don't have rights to vote. But they do constitutionally. They don't have, wait a minute, they don't have the right to vote because they're not 18. But they have all the rights of citizenship, meaning that their right to pursue happiness, it is the job of the government, as stated in the Declaration of Independence, to secure their right to happiness. So does an eight-year-old child trapped in a school, or where there's not even adequate school supplies to teach a child to read, where statistically that child is more of on a probability vector to prison than to a job someday. And many of these American children, citizens of the United States, living in what's called domestic war zones, where the PTSD of a returning veteran from Afghanistan or Iraq is no more severe than the PTSD of these children. Do these children just need to like get their act together? And can we talk about how much racial, for instance, systemic racial disparity in the criminal justice system has more often their mommies or daddies not only taken away to prison than if they were living in a white neighborhood, but also the statistical probability that those children lived through the trauma of a raid where the police came into the house, took mommy, took daddy, and there was no mental health service by which the kids were ever checked up on. Which is why we have elementary school children who are already-- they're in trauma. some of these kids before they even go to preschool. So for us to sit here in our nice, you know, white bread, you and I have won from the economic and social system as it now exists. This system is beautiful. If you win within it, you and I both know there is no place better to be. What I'm saying to you is not that it's not wonderful within this club. What I'm saying to you is not enough people can get into the club. And there are too many people. And you and I both have careers where we know what it's like to say to a person, you need to get your act together, you need to stop playing victim. You need to go get a job. You need to atone for your own mistakes. You need to take responsibility for your character defects. I know from that, you know from that. But there are a lot of people, trust me, Louis, for whom? They're trapped in a way you should not be trapped in the United States of America. And they need more than internal change. They deserve, as citizens of this country, some external changes that are now changes necessary because of how much economic, social, and political policy has been rigged against them. So it's both and. It's just like with integrative medicine, you need, it's both and. You need to cultivate health, you need to exercise, you need to take care of your health, you need to take care of your lifestyle, you need to take care of your nutrition, and sometimes you need to take the medicine. It's both and, it's not either or.

Yeah, because I mean, I believe that we need to change external environments for people, but If we give external environments to people that aren't, that then don't, what am I trying to say? That don't use it to their advantage.

They're accountable.

Giving the opportunity at first.

Exactly, no, exactly. I mean, I look at her the same way I raised my daughter. I raised her giving her every opportunity I could provide for her to thrive. And within that, I expected a lot. And if she failed after that, that's not her. It's like what Martin Luther King said, it's one thing to tell people to, Pick themselves up by their bootstraps, but they have to have boots.

Yeah, right. I see what you're saying. How do we teach people to pick themselves up when they have the boots?

Well, that's the work that you and I both do. I know people in professions such as I both do. But I know for myself, I have taken that journey such as the conscious Samaritan, where I have over the, and it, what you said at the beginning of our conversation was true. This changed. Remember, I've been doing what I do for 35 years. Things changed over the last 15 years, 15 to 20 years.

Why is that?

Why is it? Because starting in the 1980s, trickle-down economics was proffered to this culture backed by a lot of money and a lot of power that said, if we make the American corporation only responsible on a fiduciary level to its stockholders, The people? No. Stockholders. There's a difference between your stockholders and your stakeholders. Your stockholders are stakeholders, but stakeholders are also the workers, the environment, the community, and at a certain point, everybody is a stakeholder in what happens in corporate America because the power is so ubiquitous. So starting in the 80s, the trickle-down economic theory was get the government out, forget financial regulations, forget safety regulations, forget health regulations, get the government off the back so that these people can create jobs, because that was what we were told, that if you just make these stockholders so rich, see?

It's gonna trickle down.

It's gonna trickle down and it's gonna lift all boats. Right. Well, it's been 40 years. I think after 40 years your jury is in. It not only has not lifted all boats, it has left millions of people without even a life vest. It has created the greatest economic wealth inequality since 1929. It has led us to a situation where 1% of Americans own more wealth than that bottom 90%. So that 40% of all Americans live with a daily struggle to make basic ends meet. You and I don't live with a basic struggle just to make ends meet. So it's almost like we have to like open our hearts to the level of empathy and then ask, you know, all this stuff that we tell people about change your attitude, If you are on a daily basis, on a daily basis, so impacted by, what do you mean?

It's trauma.

It's chronic economic trauma.

Every day, fight or flight, there's no relaxation. You're in stress mode constantly in your mind, in your heart, it's palpitating all the time.

That's exactly what I'm saying. Trying to, yeah. That's exactly what I'm saying. So what I'm saying, that's it, thank you. That connection. So public policy should unleash the spirit. Public policy should uncap people's dreams, not limit people's dreams. And then let people soar. And you and I know they will because you and I believe. And then you better write, get your attitude together.

Right. You have the opportunity now. It's up to you now, yeah.

But millions and millions and millions of Americans are living on a level of survival that is absolutely unnecessary and are a product of an amoral economic system that has corrupted our government and hijacked America's value system. Yeah.

What do you think is the root of emotional disconnection for people right now. Why are people so disconnected emotionally?

Fear. People, when you live in survival, when you live in that, you're so afraid.

You can't connect.

Right. If I haven't processed through my trauma and my pain and suffering, I'm not capable of being present for yours.

Or having compassion or empathy for someone else.

Which is what that would mean. I'm too busy just trying to survive. You've got millions and millions and millions of people in the richest country in the world just trying to survive while a tiny, tiny, tiny group of people are talking about where the second or third private jet's gonna come from. Now that's not just a product of those people got their act together and their attitudes together, Louis. That's a product of some economic injustice. Now, you and I, I'm looking at your wall. At your wall. And a lot of the people who have made it, In addition to getting their attitude together, they're very talented people. Some of them geniuses.

They have skill sets, they have talent.

But that's not social justice. You shouldn't have to be like some people would say, oh, we have racial justice in America. Look at Tyler Perry, look at Oprah Winfrey, look at Magic Johnson. You shouldn't have to be a genius.

Or the most talented person in the world.

That's kind of the point. It's all this, and that's what aristocracy is. That's what elitism is. So it's not enough to just say, Oh, but look how racially diverse the elite are now. Look how culturally diverse he is. No, no, no, no, no. The point is that in America, we don't do the elite get all the goods stuff. That's what we repudiated in 1776, and we need to repudiate it again. It's an ongoing struggle though. You can't say, I was healthy in 1997, so I don't have to take care of my health anymore. My marriage was good three years ago, so I don't have to attend to it now. My business was doing really good last year, so I don't have to attend to it this year. Democracy is the same. We have to tend to this every year. Every day. Every day.

If you don't tend to your relationship every day, it's going to be a surprise that you're losing it.

Right now. Same thing with health.

If I'm eating pizza and candy all day for, maybe I can do that for a couple of days. That's right. But if I do that for months and years, I'm gonna have some chronic illness.

And all the patterns of nature mimic themselves on every level. So the same is true of our democracy. What is happening today and what is represented by the agenda of him who shall not be named is an opportunistic infection. It couldn't have happened had there not been a societally weakened immune system. And that societally weakened immune system was a lot of us. And one of the reasons our sense of responsibility politically was weakened was because we were having such a good time succeeding. We were busy.

Busy succeeding?

Pardon?

We were busy succeeding?

Yeah, and then you look at a country like China. You can get very rich in China. You just can't be free in China. So that's what the United States has to ask ourselves.

For the people that don't have, let's say, opportunities readily available to them. but are in constant trauma and emotional disconnection. And maybe there's gonna take some time for these opportunities to unfold that are more equal opportunities.

Well, it depends on who your president is.

Right. It's gonna take at least a year, right? At least a year. Take at least a year.

I know.

What can they do now before these opportunities unfold to them?

What they can do is go to marianne2020.com, give at least a dollar, and do everything you can to help me get elected. That's what you can do. Because I want a massive infusion of economic hope and opportunity into the sinews of American civilization. As soon as possible, we want the American people, because all the ways that you described a person living that way, I want an audible sigh of, I don't have to worry today. That's why you have universal healthcare. That's why you repeal the 2018 $2 trillion tax cut that gave 83 cents of every dollar to the richest among us. You put back in the middle class tax cuts. You make free, State colleges and universities, college for all. You raise the minimum wage to at least $15, and you remove this college loan debt, which we could do. It would cost less money than that tax cut did. And there will be an audible just, now I can breathe. And then people can get about living their dreams. Then people can get about starting the website they want, producing what they want, creating what they want. That's the American dream, is that everybody should be able to soar. But, Louis, could you and I, Do what we're doing right now if either one of us were- no.

It's very challenging. In fact, the moments where I am in that space, I feel like I'm running out like a two or three out of 10. And I'm like, how am I even productive in my life?

Every day.

Yeah, of course.

Every day.

But for the people that, you know, it's gonna take a year, couple of years till things get moving, what do the people do now? All right, well, if they're facing trauma, constantly chronic emotional, mental, physical, whatever it may be, how can they ease a little bit of the pain emotionally, internally, so they can try to take those steps?

Well, I feel that the ultimate answers come from within, from the realization that we are part of a higher power, that love is who we are, that in the space of love, miracles occur naturally. To ask, who have I not forgiven? To atone for our own mistakes, to make amends for the places where we have not been the people that we should be. to do that inner work. But when we do that inner work, I don't think that that then makes us complacent about the societal conditions.

Sure, sure, sure.

That cause so much unnecessary suffering. I think that that part of what releases us. I think that we need to claim citizenship as an aspect of a well-lived life. That's all.

Yeah.

And I think that there's an awakening in this country today. People know that something It's very, the country's traumatized right now.

Yeah, it is.

And for those who believe that we are in a chapter that needs to end, for those who do, and I'm sure some people listening are Trump supporters, and that, hey, it's America, that's, you know, everybody has that right. But for those who are listening who are not Trump supporters and do not wish to see the president get a second term, then get busy right now. Yeah. This is going to be intense.

I can't even watch. News, because it just triggers so much trauma, even if it's for 10 seconds, just reading a headline, watching news, seeing these clips happen. For me, it's really hard. So I just don't watch news.

I don't know about your personal circumstances.

Are you married?

Not married.

Do you have children? No children.

Okay. We've got a girlfriend. Okay. But let's just, with your girlfriend, let's say, God forbid, she said to you, Louis, I'm sick. Wouldn't you say, I'm going, what are you talking about? And she said, well, we've got some bad news. and I'm going to the doctor on Thursday. Wouldn't you say, I'm going with you?

Yeah, of course.

Would you say, I just can't listen to what the doctor has to say because it would trigger me. No, that's not what a man does.

No.

You'd be there. You'd be listening to everything he says because you love her. And you need to know everything he's telling you about what's wrong. You don't go to the doctor to heal you and expect the doctor not to give you the bad news.

Right.

They're gonna give you bad news.

Huh?

They're gonna give you news that's gonna change your life. That's by definition, otherwise they can't heal you. So politics is the same. If you don't know what's wrong, if you don't look at the problem, you can't be part of the problem.

You should be watching this. Well, being aware of the problem is where it starts.

You should be aware. Yeah, I don't know if that has.

To do with T.V. Someone can give me a debrief every week.

Well, you know, up here's what's happening. There's of course, well, I kind of do. That's exactly what I'm doing. In A Course in Miracles, there's a line where it says, Look at the crucifixion, but do not dwell on it. If you dwell on the bad news, you do expand it. Some people say, Don't look at that stuff because what you look at expands. But some things expand because you did not look at it, such as stage one cancer. Right. Right.

So, you need to be aware of things.

There are plenty of very intelligent news sources. Let's say you do something like the Daily report from NPR, something that's not sensationalist and just- Neutral. Well, and very intelligent. And you check it out every day. That's your civic responsibility. And I think particularly as someone who is successful in America. Okay.

I'll check it out. Maybe I'll check it out once a week.

Pardon?

I'll check it out once a week to start.

I don't know.

Every day?

You've got two women in the room, one of whom is a woman of color. And I actually, I can't speak for her, but I can speak for myself every day.

Every day.

Every day.

What would that do for me if I listen to that?

Make you a more intelligent participant in what's happening in this country.

Okay.

At a time of deep peril.

Hmm.

And crisis. Okay.

NPR.

Or, you know, the Apple News. I'm not sure.

Something.

Yeah.

Listen to an update every day on something.

Yeah, I would go more for, NPR than Apple is. That's more the corporate, you know, political media, industrial, you know, that was my job.

You did the campaign, was it four years ago, three years ago? The Congress campaign?

Yeah, I think 14.

Five years ago. And what made you want to jump to the next level and run for what you're doing now?

After I ran for Congress, I thought, well, that was that. I scratched whatever itch I had, because I had had an itch. Did that. That door is closed, therefore it never occurred to me that there would be more doors beyond that, because that door was closed. And when people would ask me, Would you do it again? I would say no. And I read a book by Ray Dalio. You might have read his book, Principles.

I haven't read the whole thing yet.

But... Really, the part I've read is good. And he says in there that if you're going to live a meaningful life, You're gonna take risks, and if you take risks, you're going to fail sometimes. But if you fail, fail well. That meant so much to me. Fail well.

How do you fail well?

You take responsibility for your part in the failure. You don't carry any bitterness or victim. And you know that the only real failure in life is failure to learn from an experience. And I hoped that I failed well. And I, you know, people look at you, if you have a public life of any kind, People watch how you experience things. They don't just watch what you do. They also watch how you respond to what happens to you.

The bad situations, the failures.

People, I noticed, people were so kind. People were so kind to me when I won. And people were so kind to me when I lost. I would be walking down the street and people would just say, I voted for you. And people would be so kind. But I think people were kind of looking sideways. It's natural. How's she doing? And I think that if they had seen me, you know, they did this to me or they, anything, people would not have had as much respect. I think people can respect you. You tried something, you failed at it, you got up.

You went for it.

You went for it. And like I said, you fail well. So I think life is not about never falling down. It's about getting up when you do. I thought that particular path of politics, though, was over. But for me, as for millions of people, the election of Donald Trump changed everything. Really? And I think there are millions of us who are registering not only that this is a crisis in our country, but that top on our list of priorities should be showing up for whatever way we could possibly help make a difference. Because that is what's going to change this. The president is not just a politician, he is a phenomenon.

Phenomenon.

He's a phenomenon.

In what way?

What he has harnessed. He has harnessed racism, he has harnessed bigotry, he has harnessed fear, he has harnessed homophobia. This is a very serious but very... He's a powerful... Powerful. I mean... People say he's inept. I go, where do you get that he's inept? He's very smart. He said something's going on here that I don't believe traditional political strategy even knows how to deal with. The traditional political establishment and a lot of people on the Democratic side lack the psychological and emotional perspicacity that is necessary to override this, which is just to handle it. That's right. Which is why I should be the candidate.

The emotional psychological breakdown of the human psyche.

That's right. And human reason, he dismantles reason. I know, sir.

There is no reason.

Very good people, very good people who support him, and I know how good they are. He dismantles something in a way that has been historically proven to be extremely dangerous. So the only way to override that will be creating an equally powerful phenomenon. And that will be among the American people, as enough of us rise up to harness the only power greater than hate. The only power greater than hate is love. Where there is light, there cannot be darkness. And where there is love, there cannot be fear. Many more people in this country love than hate. But hatred now, people who hate with conviction.

So much stronger.

That's right. So conviction is a force multiplier. Louder. So exactly, if hate is shouting, love cannot afford to just whisper. So we have to become as convicted behind our love as some people are now convicted behind their hate. And that can't just be a love for our own children. It has to be love for the children on the other side of town. We have to become as fierce about children at the border. We have to become fierce about children in neighborhoods where they don't even have glue sticks and paper in the classroom, as much as we would be if those children were our own. Jared Kushner, I read an interview where Jared Kushner said he was sitting with his father-in-law in whatever year it was and said there are a lot of angry people out there and we could harness all that and make you president. And the way I look at it, There are so many loving, good people out there. We could harness all that and change the world.

Wow. I just got chills. I like that. What's the, maybe you were just starting to say it a little bit.

What's the quote that Nelson Mandela did not write?

Stole it, yeah.

No, he didn't steal it. He used it. No, he would never say it. He never even used it. It's an urban myth that he even quoted it. There's no speech of his, including his inaugural address, It's total urban myth.

Wow.

I mean, I would be bragging about it.

So he never used it.

No. His office says there's absolutely no. But they're just quoted by him everywhere.

Oh, I know.

I know. Wow. What is the quote? It's a paragraph from my book, A Return to Love. It says, Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. We ask ourselves, who am I to be talented, gorgeous, fabulous, which I love, by the way. I have to say something to that. Who am I to be talented, gorgeous, brilliant, and fabulous? That is not something a man who has spent 25 years in a South African prison would be saying. It is so clearly a girl talking. It is so clearly a girl talking. Who might be fabulous?

Who might be fabulous? Brilliant.

I mean, help!

Hello! Amazing. I love that quote. So many people use that.

Thank you. I always say about that book, If you like the paragraph, you'll love the book.

Go buy it.

I watch people, you know, they'll buy the paragraph on some fancy calligraphy and I'll think, you just spent more money on the paragraph than you would have spent buying the book.

Right, exactly.

There's so many paragraphs in the book.

That's amazing. I'm curious, are you in an intimate relationship currently?

No. No.

Has there been anyone who's ever won the presidency who was not in a quote unquote intimate, committed relationship that you're aware of?

I think there were a couple. I think there were a couple of widowers who became, who got married in the White House. Really? Now, Adlai Stevenson was single, and a lot of people thought that the fact he was single was one of the reasons he didn't win. But I think at that time it was a different time. I think there was a lot of questioning about what his sexuality was.

When was this, what year?

I'm like, that was 1952.

Okay, gotcha. So do you think, I mean, you've got a lot of hatred I mean, there's a lot of criticism for every politician, right? Not just you, but like every politician faces a lot of support and a lot of these online bullying attacks. And I can only imagine what happens at this level, the attacks online, right? Tell me if I'm wrong here, but I feel like you're probably getting a lot of love and a lot of hatred or attacking, is that right?

I get a lot of derision.

What's that?

And mockery.

Okay, mockery. So making fun of, just like they do with Trump.

Yeah, especially after that debate.

Right, right.

But then those memes were hilarious. They're funny, yeah. They're hilarious. And it's attention. And it's interesting. Yeah, and it's really interesting. Like the whole meme about, I've gone from ironic to unironic support of Marianne Williamson. This whole, like, they talk about this recovery. I'm in recovery from addiction to establishment politics. Somebody say stage one. I thought she was odd on the debate, but still, like one article New York Times talked about my performance at the debate. It said she was weird and weirdly compelling. Interesting. A weird and weirdly compelling performance. Anyway, so it's number one. She was odd, but was interesting to watch. Number two, well, actually what she said, I agree with. Number three, well, I'm ironically in support of her number four, marianne2020.com, I mean, I like it. You really realize.

You know, it's interesting, a great branding expert, Sally Hogshead, said the different is better than better. And the more different is better than better. So don't try to be better than everyone else, but be different, because that's going to stand out as a one-oF-A-Kind person that people will pay more attention to.

It's interesting because it's aligned with something I've said to somebody. I've said, I think if I had performed better at the debates, I wouldn't have gotten as much attention. Interesting. It was my, the fact that I was scared and not knowing how to get it out there. Yeah.

It was the uniqueness.

Yeah. I think that's- no, hopefully.

I don't think that, hopefully in the.

Next- I watched it.

It was great. You were great.

Yeah.

I thought you were great. To get back to the question and my thought, so you're not in an intimate relationship, or at least not a public one. And you were married briefly, isn't that right?

Oh no, my marriage was like the best weekend I ever had. That was many, many years ago.

Long time ago, right?

I'm not really married.

Yeah, it was like a quick thing. And you haven't been married since.

No.

Do you feel like with all the attention and energy and touring and it's just gonna be nonstop, do you feel like you have an advantage by being, I guess, single or not in any terminiship?

No, I'm very-- To be honest, I have a very-- A very different perspective on that that I've had throughout my career.

What's that?

Throughout my career, I have seen intimate relationships as certainly wonderful. But I couldn't imagine being married and having the career I had. With this, it's kind of different. It's the opposite. It's a really hard thing to do, unlike the rest of my career. It's a hard thing to do without that.

Really? Wow.

How does it make you feel?

You're surrounded by way too many people on the payroll. Yeah. You're surrounded by way too many people on the payroll. So.

Yeah. So are you getting the emotional support you need or the someone telling you the real truth about- I have all that. Just a place to go back and be safe and relaxed.

Well, I just, yeah. I look at so many, I look at Barack had Michelle, and Bush had Laura, and Clinton, whatever you think about them, they have each other. Of course. Of course. On the level of deep, deep connection. You look at Jimmy Carter and Rosalynn, and I look back now and I realize, I'm not surprised that so many of the presidents in our history, in our lifetime, they had serious partners, because this is a tough job to hold alone. It is a tough job to hold alone, but it's also, It wouldn't be every man's cup of tea, would it? Yeah.

Do you feel like a woman is better suited to do it alone as opposed to a man?

Oh, I don't know.

I was generalizing this part.

I can't speak to that. I don't know. But one of the other candidates was talking about her husband the other day. And we were in the car and he had all these ideas and blah, blah, blah, and I did feel that. I wish I had that.

So do you have someone that is like a good friend or someone, you know?

Well, I mean, I have people in my life, certainly, that are close to me.

A support system.

That I talk to. But I think, you know, you would ask specifically about marriage and intimate relationships. And it's interesting for me, though. And I thought a lot about it when I was, you know, I really processed this decision for a year and a half, whether or not to run.

Oh, okay.

Gotcha. And that was one of the phases I went through. And it's a people. Well, how can I do this alone?

Wow.

But it particularly surprised me because I've been the exact opposite on that for my 35-year career.

I cannot do that.

You cannot ask that much of me. You cannot ask that much. You're on a mission to do this.

You don't have the time and the talent.

I can't even put it together in my head why it's different.

Huh?

Yeah.

Is it, you feel like it's just a bigger weight?

Well, no. You know what it is? It's not a, it's not a bigger weight, but it's, My career up until this point is a solid-- it's me and the Course in Miracles and my spiritual connection. And I'm carrying this with-- it's very different. This is worldly in a way.

Wasn't that worldly too?

But the worldly part, I didn't need-- the worldly part of intimate relationship for the last 35 years has been-- the antidote to the worldly stress. It's normal. It's what you do for fun and relaxation. But I didn't need a partner to carry the career with me. I didn't need that. I was carrying the career. Fine, thank you. I needed something else.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

This is different. It's-- Huh. Uh-huh.

So does that mean you're open to a relationship?

I can't, I sort of, I'm thinking now, you know, we're doing this on a podcast. I'm not so sure.

I asked if there's anything off limits.

I know, it didn't occur to me we would be doing this.

I'm just curious, I feel like this is the stuff that is most fascinating to me, this type of conversation.

I see love as a great mystery. And I see my history with love as a mystery. I think a lot of people, Feel that way.

Love is the concept or intimate partnership?

Intimate partnership.

Yeah, yeah, it's a mystery.

I think that there is no doubt that the path for a woman is different than the path for a man. Yeah. Definitely. And the kind of men that I've been with don't wanna go around holding Marianne's purse. Mm, right.

Interesting.

And I'm not saying that, I mean, I've looked even in this, Even in this race, looking at other candidates, the women, I don't see their husbands as walking around just carrying their purse, don't get me wrong. But the men that I've been with in my life, where I was with relationships in terms of my career, fit. It fit.

Yeah.

So I did not walk into this experience with someone at my side on that level. That would be a miracle. I can't imagine somebody walking into this.

And going, if you're watching or listening and you're up for this, hey, course in miracles.

We need that now.

That's right, but- Whatever it takes, right? To heal humanity, if that might be something. Whatever it takes to heal humanity, right?

Well, somebody said to me, I was in some interview and they said, you will be the first single person or something. I said, we have till January 20th. I have 2021. So let's just be open here. Yeah.

Wow. What would it take for you? What type of partner would be the miracle, the characteristics or the values or the leadership or the, what type of person would that be that you'd say, I'd be open to, to going down this journey with you.

It's never, it's never that, is it? It's your inner knowing. Wow.

Isn't that the truth?

Wow.

I feel a little juicy in here. I like this. What's your greatest fear then, moving into the next year?

You know.

This is a big, you know, it can feel like a big, It's a monumental big thing, right?

My greatest fear, embarrassment, humiliation, feeling I made a fool of myself.

What's the worst that could happen? You make a fool of yourself, you embarrass yourself, and then what?

That's a big deal.

Why?

Right now.

By going for it, though?

No, this is a bigger deal than that. Remember, I'm running for president. And so far, even though there are those who mock me, even though there are those who seek to humiliate me, even though there's those who deride me, it's a critical mass of people who hear what I'm saying. And when I'm out in those primary states campaigning, my words are landing. But I know how vicious this particular world can get. Until I never know what's coming. Two things that somebody told me, my friend Bobby Roth, who's head of the David Lynch Foundation, be a good person for you to interview, he's fascinating man. He said two things. Maharishi Yogi said, see the job, do the job, stay out of the misery. That one's helpful to me.

Yeah, yeah.

And he also said that the Bhagavad Gita has a quote, you are responsible for your actions, you are not responsible for their results. And I read a book somewhere a long time ago, which said something that meant so much to me. It said, To be fully invested in an effort and unattached to the result. So that's what I'm seeking to be. Fully invested in the effort and unattached to the result. I feel like I would be the best person to be President of the United States going forward, because I believe that we need a fundamental pattern disruption. of the economic, social, and political status quo in the United States. We need a moral revival. We need a political visionary. We need someone who knows how to harness imagination and inspiration. We need someone who has no moral equivocation whatsoever. We need someone who has not been connected to the political establishment that drove us into this ditch. And I challenge the idea that only those who have been are qualified to lead us out of the ditch. I challenge this whole notion of a political class. It's like a Wizard of Oz, you know, like something things going on there that we don't know, like they have some special powers. And some people might say, yeah, it has to do with knowing administrative aspects of the job. But President Roosevelt said that moral leadership is the most important part of the presidency, not the administrative aspect. And you can have the best political expert in the world. You can have the best car mechanic in the world. But the car mechanic doesn't necessarily know what road you should take to Milwaukee. And I think the 21st century demands an integrative mindset that you don't find within the political establishment. We need a psychological and an emotional perspicacity in order to really understand the underlying forces at work in creating societal dysfunction and in creating societal repair. And that's what I've been dealing with for the last 35 years, because the same psychological and emotional forces that prevail within the journey of one individual prevail within the journey of a nation. So I believe that in my heart, and I believe that other people believe that too. I also know the tremendous resistance of the political media industrial complex, the political status quo. And of course, the status quo seeks to perpetuate itself. So they're gonna project onto me that I'm wacky and an amateur. I read one article that was saying I'm an amateur. No, they're an amateur at what I do.

Right.

And what I do is what I believe is necessary in order to forge a 21st century that is even survivable. You know, when I say things like, I believe that all public policy should be guided by love. So people say, well, what's the politics of love? Well, it's not mysterious. You see a hungry child, you feed that child. You see an uneducated child, you educate that child. They see a poor person who is struggling through no fault of their own, you help them. And you see all these incipient conflicts in the world and you wage peace. That is what should drive all domestic and international policy. Right now, our domestic and international policy is driven by short-term profit maximization for health insurance companies and big pharmaceutical companies and fossil fuel companies and chemical companies and gun manufacturers and defense contractors. Now, there are people who say that I'm naive to say, no, government should help people thrive. That's what government should be for. Because once people thrive, they create their own peace and prosperity. Some people say that I'm naive to say a politics of love is the only antidote to a politics of fear. I say that what's naive is to think that if we do not make that change, we will even survive on this planet for another 100 years.

I've got three final questions because I know you're short on time here. With the weight of this that's coming to you, right? You've already been feeling the weight and the pressure, but the weight that's coming. How do you train your heart every morning to prepare yourself for all the good that's coming and all the praise and celebration and acknowledgement, but also the crazy emotional reactions, attacks, whatever you want to call them.

Well, also, That is exacerbated by the fact that everybody has a cell phone now.

And anything can be shared and said. Anyone can say whatever they want.

I made one lazy, not as clear as I should have been, comment about vaccines.

Yeah, now everyone's holding onto that and spreading it around.

Creating all this, yeah. You can say one thing that, oh, I should have said that.

They hold onto it for, But hasn't.

Trump said lots of things that he.

Just moves on and he just deflects and deflects?

He said, as we all know, I could murder someone on Fifth Avenue and not be held accountable for that. We should have known then who's talking.

Well, how do you prepare yourself for--.

Well, first of all, on a daily basis, I was deciding whether or not to run. Part of my process was praying that God would give me a tougher skin. Right.

'Cause everyone needs that.

That's number one. Number two, meditating in the morning. The Course in Miracles says, Five minutes in the morning guarantees that love will be in charge of your thought forms throughout the day. And I pray, and I pray to be an instrument of love, and I'm not a perfect person. I'm not an enlightened master. I'm not saying that I, 24/7, I'm always on that wagon, but the chances of my making a dumb mistake are drastically reduced.

Through meditation in the morning, yeah.

And there is a level of not just intellectual discipline, but emotional discipline that's called for in this. There are people so much discipline who have sent money, sometimes very hard-earned money. I remember during the congressional campaign, somebody saying, I'm sending $10. And when I get paid next week, I will send another $10. Wow. So I am not only spending other people's money, but I am showing up for something at a very serious time. Just like in my career up to this point, I've known I have a very serious responsibility. People's psyches are on my hands. I have to work really hard. I feel similar about this. This is serious business. This is very serious business. And people who are supporting you. are seeing you as a candidate, having a transformational, more expanded conversation, getting more real, getting deep. This is a tremendous responsibility. So you, Marianne, do not get to indulge. You will not be, you will not indulge any whining today. If I even start with, I'm so tired, or they were mean to me. I just, you don't have the privilege. I slap myself and put myself in a cold shower attitudinally. No, no, no, no, no, no. I crossed the Rubicon. I said I was doing this. I am doing this. And people have every right to expect that I'm showing up for this. And by the way, a campaign is a job, it's an audition. If I can't handle a campaign, how am I going to have four years? And people are looking to see who you are and have every right to look to see who you are. And, I'm trying my best.

Yeah, it's great. It's great. You've got this book, Politics of Love.

Yes.

You've got your website, marianne2020.com, which talks about how you'll take action when you're president.

So we really didn't really talk about that here.

Right. In the issue section, all the policies. You know, there's this myth out there that I don't have plans. I have plenty of plans and plenty of policy positions as much as any other candidate out there.

Right.

In some cases.

And you can go on, your website has all that information. I watched a ton of interviews on there. It's really inspiring stuff. Thank you. This book I haven't read yet, but it's a handbook for a new American revolution, a politics for love. All your other books are amazing, so I'm assuming this is incredible. I'm gonna dive in. Thank you. So make sure you guys get this book. I'm gonna ask you one final question. Before I do, I wanna acknowledge you again, like I did in the beginning, because this takes a lot of courage.

Thank you.

And you inspire me by showing me what's possible. at any age and doing it without a partner.

I can do it without a partner.

An intimate partner, you know what I mean?

Yeah, maybe, you know, that's a lot of- Change the night, who knows?

Yeah, it could change the night, a miracle. I just feel like it's really challenging to get back up after, you know, four or five years ago of doing something and not working out and saying, I'm gonna go to a whole nother level to have the courage to say, I matter, and my heart is telling me to do this and not to deny what your heart says, no matter how scary it may be. I think it's really inspiring.

And on one hand, I want to thank you for that. And I want to say Americans have such a low bar for what we think courage is. Courage is to be in certain parts of the world who, if they said a fraction of what I have said in criticism of my government, would be thrown in prison and possibly tortured. And so I feel that every American woman particularly has to remember we're speaking for thousands of women who could not speak for themselves, who must speak for a survivable future for our children and our grandchildren, who must speak for nature, who must speak for the planet, who must speak for love. So, yeah, I understand. Yeah.

It's a different perspective of courage in your position and your entire career.

What are they gonna do? They're gonna throw tomatoes at me and say mean things about me in magazines. I mean, you know. Yeah.

I still think it's courageous.

Thank you. I understand the perspective. I get it, and I appreciate it.

Yeah, of course. I think I think it's great. Okay, this is the final question.

Okay.

Imagine it's the last debate before the election, and you've done everything you can. It's down to you and one other person. What would you say if you have 30 to 60 seconds and the whole country has turned on their TVs or radios or whatever it is, YouTube, live, whatever it is, and they get to watch you share your final message of why you should be the president.

You know, if I made any mistake in that first debate, it's that it was almost weirdly that I was over prepared in the sense that I had so much information in my head that it got in the way of just me showing up as me. And in interviews where I just show up as me, I do fine. So I don't know what I would say, but my desire would be to show up for me. When you vote for president, you cannot know every challenge that will be facing that president, but you're voting for the consciousness of a person. What would be their basic view? What would be their basic worldview? What would be their basic mindset? What would be the basic way they would approach a problem? Who are they? Because the president is in our face for four years. That would be my hope. So my hope at the end of this campaign is that I will have truly expressed and articulated not only who I am, but my vision for this country. And then the rest of it is where it belongs, and that is in the hands of the people.

And not being attached to the result.

And that's when I'm in those states, like Iowa and New Hampshire and South Carolina and Nevada, although now California is now technically an early primary state, but I don't get in people's eyes that they really register what that means yet, that they can start early voting on February 3rd, next year, something very profound is going on there. There are two political universes. One is the dog and pony show and polls and money and all that stuff. The other is what happens when you're really talking to voters about the things that matter. And that's a beautiful and a profound place where democracy still works. So if I can end the campaign feeling, I did it. They know who I am. They know who I am. They know what I stand for, and they know what I will do if they give me the job. Then I will be satisfied that whatever decision they make, as long as we get to count the votes, all of that stuff. It's not rigged. I defer to the will of the people. There you go.

And that's how it should be.

And that's just how I hope it unfolds. Marianne2020.com, if you're inspired, you can donate.

There's a donate button there. You can watch videos, get the book. Does this support your campaign if they get the book?

No, that doesn't.

It doesn't. But it helps them learn more about- Absolutely.

Everything. Absolutely, absolutely. And it, you know, Social media, everything.

Mary Williamson 2020 or is this Mary Williamson on Instagram?

Any of them will get there.

Yeah, I'll get there.

Mary and I will get there.

Cool, awesome. Maryann, thank you so much. Appreciate it. Appreciate you.

Wow, wow, wow. I hope you enjoyed this episode. Powerful insights, powerful. Wisdom, loved everything Marian had to say and loved her vulnerability. If you loved her vulnerability as well, then let me know and let her know @lewis howes@marianwilliamson over on Instagram. I'm sure she'd love to hear from you and share this with one friend. You can inspire someone by being a giver today by just copying the link on the podcast app on Apple or on Spotify or lewishouse.com/838 Just send the link to one friend today and say, Hey, check this out. I really think you're gonna enjoy this. Be a hero, be a champion in someone's life and share it out. Post it on your social media all over the place if you can as well, if you're inspired to. And just tag me so I can connect with you and know who you are. I'd love to get to know you better. If this is your first time here, please click the subscribe button on Apple Podcasts right now. Subscribe and leave a rating and review. I don't care if you leave me a one star or five star. I would just love to hear from you, hear what you thought about this. So write a couple sentences, write a thought, write a word. Doesn't matter to me. I want to connect with you. I want to hear from you. I want to find ways to improve and grow and impact your life the best way possible. This podcast started out for me to learn, and every time I interview someone, I learn so much and I try to apply as much as I can my own life, and I hope you're applying this to your life as well. So please let me know over on Apple podcast, click subscribe, rate and review. You were born for something great in your life. You were born to discover your unique gifts and to share those talents with the world. You have a light that shines within you. And I believe it's our responsibility to shine our light to the people around us. to share our light with others. You also have a darkness inside of you. And sometimes we turn on that darkness too much. You know, or we turn off our light too much. And so our darkness is showing. It's a choice. Every day is a choice. You can be dark or you can show lightness. I want you to turn on your light more and more every day. It takes courage, it takes bravery.

It's a risk.

It's not easy. and it takes commitment consistently. But your light is what you were born to do. You were born to share it. You were born to give it. You were born to be it. Your greatest power is to show love, to receive love, and to be love, said Oprah Winfrey. And Albert Einstein said, Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding. I love you so very much, and as always, you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.