848 The Soulful Art of Persuasion with Jason Harris

This is episode number 848 with Jason Harris. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. Roosevelt once said, People don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. This episode is all about the soulful art of persuasion and how to persuade people to buy into you, to buy into your beliefs, your vision, your skill set, anything you want to do to persuade people, there are certain ways to do it that comes across authentically and in a way that makes people know how much you care about them. Not tricks, not some type of strategy that's trying to fool people over to persuade them, but really how to show people how much you care in order to move forward in the life of your dreams. And Jason Harris is the CEO of the award-winning creative agency Mechanism and the co-founder of the Creative Alliance. He works closely with brands through a blend of soul and science to create provocative campaigns that engage audiences. Iconic brands like Peloton, Ben and Jerry's, MillerCoors, HBO, and the United Nations. He's been named in the top 10 most influential social impact leaders, as well as the four A's list of 100 people who make advertising great. His methods are studied in cases at Harvard Business School and his new book, the Soul for Art of Persuasion, the 11 habits that will make anyone a master influencer is out right now. And in this episode, we talk about why playing the long game is more important than trying to close the deal right now. And he's got a simple philosophy on how to close deals. The value of leaning into your quirks and your imperfections, and why your imperfections will help you stand out from the rest. The power of storytelling and how the mind processes stories versus facts. why you should always choose collaboration over competition, and how empathy is a key component of persuasion and so many other keys to persuading people into anything. Super excited about this one. Make sure to share it with your friends, lewishouse.com/848 the School of Greatness is proudly sponsored by Amica Insurance. As Amica says, empathy is our best policy. That's why they'll go above and beyond to tailor your insurance coverage to best fit your needs. Whether you're on the road, at home, or traveling long life's journey, their friendly and knowledgeable representatives will work with you to ensure you have the right coverage in place. Amica will provide you with peace of mind. Go to amica.com and get a quote today. As America's leading business lender, Bank of America is on your corner and in your corner. With $215 billion in business loans and over 3,700 business specialists across the nation.

We help businesses thrive. So communities prosper. What would you like the power to do? Learn more at bankofamerica.com/localbusiness.

Bank of America, official bank of FIFA.

Club World Cup 2025.

Copyright 2025 Bank of America Corporation, all rights reserved. Father's Day is coming up, and for lots of dads out there, dad doesn't quite cover it. They're groundskeepers, patio whisperers, and rogue leaf vigilantes too. So this year, show dad some love with gifts from the Home Depot. They've got fast free delivery on handy gear that helps dad do his thing. We're talking Ryobi cordless outdoor tools like the Ryobi 40 volt expanded string trimmer. Find the perfect Father's Day gift at the Home Depot. Shop in store and online at homedepot.com, free delivery subject to availability. Fuel your greatness with wonderful pistachios, no shells. Wonderful pistachios is a great source of protein with zero guilt. Each one ounce serving has six grams of protein, giving you over 10% of your daily value. Pistachios are known for their protein power, fiber, and better for you unsaturated fats for a combination that may help keep you feeling Fuller longer. And now there's a new way to snack strong with unsalted no shells holding the salt, not the flavor, for a snack that packs a protein punch. Visit wonderfulpistachios.com to learn more. And without further Ado, let's dive into this episode all about the powerful Soulful Art of Persuasion with Jason Harris. So this book all about Soulful Art of Persuasion. I'm excited about this.

Yeah. It's like, it's sort of like, did you ever read it?

Yeah, it was.

Yeah, How to Win Friends and.

Yeah, that's great. This is an updated version.

It's updated version that's for the modern age. I went back and read all those.

Books and you're like, what's missing?

Well, they're like, It's almost like act a certain way, like don't be yourself.

It's like fake.

It's like fake and it's like get them talking, be interested in the things the other person's interested in.

Yes.

Versus leaning into who you are and your quirks.

It's like a shtick.

It's a shtick. It's like this is the way you're successful, is parroting other people. And this is obviously opposite that, which is you got to know who you are, lean into your true self. and that's how you're successful. You know, it's your character and who you are.

I love it, man.

Oh, yeah. So it's that. And then the Soulful part, which I'll talk about, which you'll relate to. I was re-watching your, like, big idea intro video about what's your big idea? And it is about the Soulful piece. That pillar is all about what are your skills? Like, everyone has two or three skills that they're really good at. And then what are the. things that you care about, your purpose, and you try to like line those two things up. And that's what being soulful is all about, you know? It's like if you can line those two things up, you know, basically you take like a sheet of paper, you write down your three skills and three things that you care about, like your purpose, and you figure out how to put those together, and that's how you can like give back into the world. That's like what I did with It's On Us campaign, you know, going to the White House. I know how to advertise. There's a cause there. It's like pencils of promise. Do you bring in your summit back to where you were from? You know, it's putting those skills to what you care about. So a lot of the books about that. Them being generous person, being an empathetic person, like understanding other people. I love it, man. Yeah, it's cool. And so these are all the habits and I get into like how to develop those habits. I love it. Yeah, it's cool.

We've got Jason Harris in the house. Welcome to School of Greatness, my man.

Thank you.

Pumped that you're here. Thanks for having me. You just gave a brief overview, which.

We'Ll just leave that in.

Oh, okay. Sunny LA. We met back in 2010, 11, 12. Yeah. When are we, where was the first meeting?

Was it through Brandon or was it through?

Yeah, through Brandon.

Was it trying to do something? I can't remember. I don't even remember. Maybe it was like getting you to.

Market something for us or something like that.

Like, you're always asking people to do stuff for you.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know, I can't remember.

Maybe I met Brandon somewhere. Yeah.

Through Tim Ferriss or one of his events or something like that. I can't remember.

Komodo event? Maybe, maybe, yeah, yeah. Was he there?

Yeah, he was there. Were you there? No, he went instead of me.

He went, that's where I met him. Yeah. And we got connected and I learned about your guys' company, Mechanism. And you guys do, tell us what you do specifically at Mechanism.

So we're a creative ad agency and so we work with brands to figure out what they're gonna stand for in the world and then create the marketing materials and messaging ads, social media, do media planning, buying, basically put their message develop and put their message out into the world.

So you'll find the directors, you'll script the commercial, the commercials or the, the video assets, whatever it may be. Yeah. And do everything from a Concept to idea to launching it to promotion, marketing, everything. Yeah.

It's like a, it's like a service, an assembly line. You know, it starts with a strategy. What is the brand going to stand for? How's a brand like Peloton fit into the fitness world? How are they different to the creative of what's the concept? What's the ad going to look like then to making it, like you said, and then pushing out, marketing it, marketing.

It, and then tracking it and then repeating is that a four step five step process? What is that?

Yeah, five or six. So, so it failed off at the end.

So a brand like Peloton.

Yeah.

Is it public? Their, their numbers of, like, what they're looking to.

Probably not public, but it's a multi-billion dollar. Yeah, they're multi company. Multi-billion dollar valuation. Yeah, definitely.

And how, where would they be without an agency like you guys helping them with all that marketing, the launch of their messaging, the commercials that I see on TV, all that stuff.

Well, I think we were certainly part of helping them craft the brand, making the brand feel sophisticated, making the brand consistent over time. But really, they just had an incredible product. And the thing that is great about Peloton is they can come out with a bike or a treadmill or a digital app. It's all based around the community and the community is, you know, there's leaderboards, the community through social is super supportive. And so focusing on that community, they can just come out with multiple, multiple products. So that's really what they focused on.

Community.

The community. And what we do is make the brand, we up the brand through production value, storytelling. And so we just sort of compliment what they what they built. But I mean, they just cracked, cracked the code. Crushed it. It's about community. and it's about working out from your home.

It's amazing.

It's on-demand workouts. I mean, they just killed it.

It's amazing. What's been the biggest challenge from a marketer or advertiser standpoint since you started the business? What's the brand that you had the hardest time working with, coming up with like this process for?

The hardest brand to do that for? Trying to think of a brand that I worked with in the past. 'Cause, you know, I can't name any of my current clients.

That's not cool. That's not cool. Maybe one that was challenging, but then you figured out like, oh, this was the hook and it ended up working out. Maybe it's a current brand too that was like, man, this was really challenging to figure out how we're gonna launch this message in the world.

But then it was like a big success when you did. Well, I would say we work with Charles Schwab. So we do Charles Schwab ads, which.

Is broker firms, and they're trying to switch. It's all about switching from, find the best firm and who's the lowest fees and the best quality.

Yeah. And so the team, and we've been working with them for a while, but what really sort of catapulted a lot of their success is the team cracked the idea of coming up with, instead of talking about what Schwab is, talk about the other guy. And so they came up with this character, Carl, who is like sort of a lot of the opposite values of this book. He's like not trustworthy. He's just trying to close a deal. He's not in it for the long term. He's overcharging. And this guy, Carl, was the character, and it was the push off of the opposite of Charles Schwab. And so that sort of unlock, which is a unique idea, because you usually think about putting the brand first. And this was sort of-- I'm not.

Talking about the other brands.

I'm not talking about the other brands, but this was personifying, sort of like what Apple Mac did, you know?

Yeah.

Are those ads?

Kind of like the Apple, AT&T ads. Can you hear me now? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Exactly.

State Farm is actually doing that right now, kind of where it's like the State Farm agent is there and it's like, or you've got your grandmother who's like the insurance agent that you're trying.

To get a hold of and it's like, hey, Billy!

Yeah, that can be effective. That worked really well for them. That's cool. Man, what's been the most fun you've had working on a brand?

Obviously they're all fun because you... We just did the launch of MedMen. the cannabis company. And I think just being able to be part of that story and tell that story of how cannabis used to be, you know, George Washington grew it on his farm. And then the president. Yeah, the president grew it on his farm. And then we went through, you know, this period that we're coming out of now where it was, it wasn't accepted. You got thrown in jail for carrying a little bit of it. Meanwhile, you can, like, get prescription drugs, go nuts with those, drink alcohol, all these other things when cannabis is proven to be a lot less of an issue in society. And now we told that whole story and talked about it being the new normal where now it's becoming legalized in every state slowly over time. But cannabis is here to stay and there's a lot of health and wellness benefits. I think just being able to tell that story in a really interesting way with that diorama look, I think that's been, we're really proud of that.

That's cool, man. This new book that you have is called the Soul for Art of Persuasion: the 11 Habits that Will Make Anyone a Master Influencer. And, we were talking a little bit before about how you were talking about the other traditional books on influence and persuasion, like how to win friends and influence people. But, you said there, those are their books that would teach these kind of tactics. What was wrong with those types of strategies or tactics versus kind of these 11 habits that you have here?

So, you know, books like How to Sell, all the old Dale Carnegie stuff from the 1929-1930s, which are still perennial sellers, that was created in an age of selling and pitching that was much different than the age we live in now. You know, we really live in an age of distrust. Where you don't know if it's you know, there's fake news. There's phishing scams It's hard to trust Google and Facebook anymore, you know, sure.

So who's taking your privacy or whatever?

Yeah, you who's taking your privacy and so We live in a different time and back then It was much more those lessons are much more about how to friend people by letting them talk act like you're interested in the things they're interested in getting to keep nodding at them say their name 12 times, right everyone loves their name say their name 12 times Give them a gift. Get them, yeah, yeah, get them to, yeah, exactly. The law of reciprocity. Exactly. Get them to a yes really quickly. And I talk a lot about in this book that, you know, I have a chapter called Never Be Closing.

Huh. And those-- Not ABC.

That's right, so it's the opposite of ABC. Yeah, yeah, so the, oh yeah, ABC team. So it's the Glen Gary Glen Ross idea of, you know, get them, it's all transactional, just get the sale, get the sale, get the sale, and Never Be Closing philosophy is about playing the long game. Building relationships over time, understanding that that's what creates value. That's where you're successful. That's where you win. You don't win by checking off deal, deal, deal. It's about long-term relationships and playing the long game is how everyone should be thinking. It should be thinking never be closing. It's not about the closing. It's so true. Yeah, it's about the long-term value of a relationship.

I feel like that's all I've done because in the beginning of my kind of journey, which was 10, 11 years ago, I didn't have anything to offer. I was broke and I had nothing to offer. And I remember being like, I could really get something from everyone right now. But why would they give me something when I have no value to give them? So I started saying, okay, how can I be the champion of everyone's network? And just match them with someone that could really be beneficial to them. If someone needed to hire a sales rep or a marketing person or whatever it was, I was just trying to find people for other people's needs. And I just continued to add that value and that became the value that I could add to people. And over time, They were like, how can I help you back? Like, this has been amazing for me. Like, you introduced me to this person, you helped me here. And I was just like, I don't need anything right now. And I would always just kind of delay the ask until I had a book or something really meaningful that I wanted to, I guess, close on. But the more that I think we do what you say, which is just like delay the ask and don't try to close all the time and just how can you give and give and give? I think that's, so you guys do a good job with that, too. Yeah.

Yeah. So what you hit on is that idea of generosity, which is sort of another idea there, being generous. And one of the habits is, like, habitually giving something away at every, every interactions, whether it's a piece of advice, it's a connection, you know, don't hold those connections. Like, give them away freely. It could be, you know, when you have something simple, like, a book or a story that you read that you like, send it to someone. You know, you don't just post it for everyone to read. You, you send it to someone on a one-on-one basis. And just building, think about just habitually giving things away. It pays off with compound interest. You don't know how, and you're not doing it so that one day you're gonna sell a grip load of books. You know, you're doing it because it becomes a habit and becomes part of your character. And then, you know, you don't know how, but you know that that's gonna turn into, you know, business success, personal growth.

Right.

And so that's another one of the sort of principles in the book.

There's 11 habits to becoming a master influencer, right? And persuading people, is that what it.

Is to-- It's all about persuasion.

To buy into your vision, your dream, your products, your company, anything, right? That's it. Into you.

And to you. And the idea is that we're all-- persuasion's sort of a loaded word, you know? But we're all persuading all day long. I mean, you're persuading. I call it enrollment.

We're either enrolling people into our vision or into our requests, or they're enrolling us out of it.

That's right. Yeah. And it's simple things like you're convincing your girlfriend where to go on vacation. Exactly.

Or where we're gonna go to for dinner.

Where are you gonna go for dinner? So all day long, you're persuading your boss to give you a raise or a company to hire you or someone to publish your book. Like all day long there's micro instances of persuasion. And this is really just about building a personal character and habits to allow enrollment to be more natural and freer. And it's also about being yourself and finding a purpose, because that's what gravitates people towards you, is really knowing yourself, leaning into your quirks, being able to be vulnerable, I remember when we did the, we had you at the White House for the It's On Us campaign.

It was crazy. I stood up in front of everyone.

I told the story.

Crazy man.

The whole place was just like in awe that, you know, a macho dude could be that vulnerable to that audience. And it opens everyone else up. And unless you were really comfortable, knew yourself, knew where you were coming from, you wouldn't have the power to do that, you know, which you were able to do.

Yeah. For context, people listening, I was, wasn't Joe Biden was there or something?

Or was it was like, yeah, we did a campaign with Joe Biden called It's On Us, which was to end sexual assault on college campuses.

And we brought you and a bunch of influencers. Yeah.

It's probably a couple hundred people in the room. A couple hundred people to me.

At the White House. Yeah. Joe Biden's talking. Yeah. And someone said, hey, we're gonna ask you guys to like make a request on how you're going to support this campaign. And so different people stood up and I felt called in the moment to stand up and share a story for a minute or two about being sexually abused myself and how I didn't think other people should suffer with this or go through this personally because of the trauma it creates and what I was going to stand up for. So, yeah, you've got to be really confident in yourself and know yourself. You know that old saying, it's not what you say, it's how you say it. I think that goes for how we live, too. It's not just what we do, it's the energy, the intention, the the presence we bring, and that's exactly what the Range Rover Sport brings to the road. The Range Rover Sport is built to take on roads anywhere, without any unnecessary details. It combines a dynamic sporting personality with elegance and agility and delivers an instinctive drive. Its assertive stance hints at an equally refined driving performance. Defining true modern luxury, the Range Rover Sport features the latest innovations in comfort and convenience. The cabin air purification system alongside the active noise cancellation creates a new level of quality comfort Sport and control. Terrain Response 2 offers seven terrain models to choose from, fine-tuning the vehicle for any challenging roads ahead. Build your Range Rover Sport at range.rover.com/us/sport. We all know that staying hydrated is so important, and we've heard it a million times, but let's be real, you can really feel the difference when you're hydrated properly. You're sharper, you're energized, and you're ready to go. And when you're not, well, you feel foggy, sluggish, just drained. And with the summer keep coming. Staying on top of hydration isn't just a good idea, it's a must. And that's why I love liquid IV. It's powered by live hydro science, which is clinically studied to maintain hydration better than water alone for up to four hours. And I've been loving the new sugar free raspberry lemonade hydration multiplier. It's so refreshing, and I don't know about you, but if I'm not hydrated, it's hard to function. Whether I'm gearing up for a workout, recording a podcast, or pushing through a packed day, liquid IV always keeps me hydrated. And if you've ever hit that mid-afternoon slump, or struggled to keep up, trust me, this is a game changer. Maximize your hydration with Liquid IV and get 20% off your first order of Liquid IV when you go to liquidiv.com and use code LEWIS at checkout. That's 20% off your first order with code LEWIS@liquidiv.com this is an advertisement from Better Help. You know, one of the biggest stigmas we still need to break, especially for men, is the idea that asking for help is weakness. In reality, it's the most courageous thing you can do. Taking care of your mental health doesn't make you soft. It makes you strong, focused, and grounded. We live in a world that puts a lot of pressure on men to man up, stay silent, and just push through. But bottling it all up only leads to burnout, anxiety, or worse. And the truth? It's okay to struggle. It's okay to not have all the answers. And there is real power in opening up. BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform, helping over 5 million people get the support they need without the hassle of waiting rooms or long commutes. You can talk to a therapist from wherever you are and switch anytime if needed. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. Talk it out with BetterHelp. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com/Lewis. that's better hlp.com/lewis, you said.

And be able to be vulnerable. Be able to not be perfect. Like we all have flaws, we all have issues, we all have things we're trying to overcome and accomplish, wherever we came from, whatever our background, leaning into those gives you power. Not trying to push those down and suppress them, leaning into being vulnerable and things that you're going through, being able to talk about it creates power.

And we were talking about stuff beforehand, which we won't go into here because it's not public information, but your ability to be vulnerable in the middle of things in your life right now is powerful and allows you to connect with me and Chase, who is just connecting with as well.

Yeah, exactly.

That's what it's about. Now you got these 11 habits and there's kind of four core principles and then there's kind of sub-principles around that. Yeah, yeah, that's right. so the first one is original. What does that mean? To be original?

So that's really about, yeah, being an original. You know, it's that Oscar Wilde quote, Be yourself, everyone else is taken. And it's sort of a few habits around how to lean into your authentic self and find your truth. And, you know, one of them is the persuasive power of storytelling and really understanding what drives you, how to tell your story, And so there's sort of some work workshops in here about like how to do that and how to pull out your story. How to tell better stories. How to tell better stories and really understanding what your story is and what you stand for. You know, that's part about being original.

That's interesting. It's an art to learn how to tell stories. Yeah. It can be very challenging for people. I find it very challenging for me telling stories.

Well, it's kind of your job, is it?

It is, but it's still challenging. Still challenging. You know, for me, I'm good at telling other people's stories. Right. But I'm not good at like coming up with stories on my own. I'm good at like telling their story.

Right, right.

Which I guess is still a story, but someone told me one time, you know, facts tell, stories sell. And so if you're a guy or a girl or a person who's got a lot of facts when you're talking to someone, it's not gonna sell them or persuade them as much as if you tell a story.

That's right. There's this, I go into it in the book, but there's a psychologist, Jonathan Haidt, who said, the mind is a story processor, not a logic processor. And it's really about that facts and arguments kind of go in one ear and out the other, like stats and numbers and data. It might be important, but stories really matter. When, you know, Martin Luther King is talking about he has a dream, you know, that one day his four children will be judged by the content of their character and not the color of their skin. he's telling a story, he's telling a dream. He's not talking about socioeconomic numbers and this, what this population has, this population doesn't have, or the unfair balance. He's, he's making a really big proclamation and he's telling a story, a dream he had, and that, that's what we remember. You know, that's the power of Storytelling to always think about it that way. Okay.

We got the power of Storytelling. Power Storytelling. We've got, you said, never be closing. That's part of being original, because a lot of people are selling something, right? They're trying to get the sale as opposed to giving an out of value cost.

It's just transaction.

A lot of people.

It's like check, check, check, check. And when you're transaction based, things come and go. And part of Never Be Closing is also looking at when you, you know, philosophy of like when you hear no, it's just no for now. You know, it's not no, it's not over. Like we, I mean, even at work, we will have clients. We won't win the pitch. you stay in that relationship.

Maybe three, five years later, they come back around.

Six months later, they come back around. Six months. Yeah.

They didn't have a good experience.

Who know? Five years. I mean, Brandon just won a piece of business that we had pitched. I wanted yesterday that we pitched two years ago. Really? Sort of stayed in touch with the client. All of a sudden, someone made a mistake and he was right there and they picked it up. So that's part of that philosophy, is.

It'S switching your viewpoint. and you say another habit is to turn and face the strange. What does that mean?

So turn and face the strange is all about my idol, David Bowie. And so I learned, I learned about this concept of being original, really, from David Bowie. And David Bowie, obviously, he was a musician. And when he started, he, his label wanted him to do folk songs like Bob Dylan. and he was David Robert Jones and those albums like tanked. No one heard of him. Music was like somebody else. It wasn't him. And so he quit, left the label, went to like a Buddhist monastery, studied mime of all things, you know, strange dude. He started an experimental arts lab, came back reincarnated as David Bowie, created these stories, Ziggy Stardust, the Thin White Duke, different albums. and leaned into his, you know, he wasn't afraid to fly his freak flag. Was he man or woman? Was he homosexual, heterosexual? You didn't really know. But that was him, you know, that was him was stirring things up and being himself. And now he's, you know, he became one of the best-selling artists of all time.

Wow.

By leaning into authenticity and what he stood for. And so that's why-- Being strange. Being strange. Whatever your-- Turn it face to strange. Whatever your quirks are. Yeah. Lean into your quirks. Like, don't try to be what someone else wants you to be. Don't do what the label asks.

Do what's inside of you. Well, the people that stand out and become more of who they are, the ones that benefit the most in the future. Yeah. If you're just trying to be like everyone else or just trying to fit in in a bland way, yeah, you're not really making a mark on the world. You're not making a big impact. It's the ones that are willing to be strange and accepted. That's the key. Yeah. I love the show Glee for that reason. Yeah, it was like, I don't know if you ever watched Glee. I watched Glee. Yeah.

For me, it was one of my favorite shows. It's all about, like, the weirdos. I saw the Glee concert, dude.

No way.

I did.

I saw the Glee concert.

I'm jealous. Yeah, I saw the Glee concert.

I didn't even know there was a concert. I know. Amazing. All the cast was there. Yeah, the cast performed. Oh, my God. I'm so jealous.

Yeah, it was awesome.

That's amazing. But those were all, like, the kind of the weird outcasts, I guess, of the school, but they're the ones that, like, when they finally accepted who they were. That's when they.

That's got to shine. Exactly.

So you've got to learn to accept who you are. Yeah. Even if it goes against everyone else, it should go against everyone else.

That's right.

But that's when you're gonna shine the most. Yeah. Yeah. I talk about being generous. This is another key principle in persuasion. Yeah. This is kind of like the old law of reciprocity. Like when you give.

Yeah.

People feel inclined to want to give back. Yeah. So why is why do you say, you know, give yourself away, the pull of positivity and just a little respect?

So, well, they all come from, they're all based on the same concept that you, so some of these habits you inherently have, you, you inherently had generosity as one of your habits. And so you were connecting people when you didn't know where it would lead. That was just who you were. Other people can, that don't have that, they can learn that skill, you know, it's These are all skills that you can practice and learn like anything else. They're muscles that you got to work out. And for me, generous is all about not expecting anything in return and just giving away. Respect is another form of being generous. And I cover a study in the book that Harvard Business School, they interviewed 20,000 employees. and the number one thing that they said made for good leadership was respect. It wasn't it wasn't time off. It wasn't a raise or money or promotion. The number one driver was respect. And if you respect the people you interact with and work with, I mean, that's where that's where the action is.

You'll get more out of that. You'll get more out of that team. Yeah.

You'll if you respect them and see them as peers, that's what is going to level you up.

Interesting.

Yeah.

Yeah. I heard these stories about how Steve Jobs was disrespectful to a lot of his product developers that he'd, like, throw the phone back in their face or whatever, you know, talk bad about people. But maybe that's just one-off times. But maybe he also had a level of respect for them somehow.

Some other way.

Yeah, some other way.

Or maybe he was that one in a million that was such a freaky genius.

Or he had other things, other habits that.

Yeah. You just followed him because you're like, I I don't like this dude, but he's amazing.

He's amazing. He's got a vision and he's putting it out there.

He's persuasive in other ways. He was an original though.

He was an original for sure. He was an original. Okay, so we got generous as one of the key habits.

Give yourself away. The pull of positivity. What does that mean? So the pull of positivity is just simply, there's a lot of different ways you can take persuasion and I cover that sort of covers There's negative parts of persuasion which are also really affecting fear-based persuasion, fear-based persuasion.

It's like my old football coach in high school or something, it was just like, screamed at you if you dropped.

The ball, you're like, ah, you know.

Did that was that effective? It was not effective for me. It wasn't effective. I mean, in some ways it made me work hard, but it made me constantly stressed. And I don't think you want that out of the people around you. You don't want them to be feeling fearful and stressed. by your level of persuasion. Like, if you don't do this, then I'm going to scream at you more. Yeah.

Yeah. And so it just sort of studies, like, the impact of negative versus positive persuasion and how positive persuasion wins out in the long run.

Yeah.

Negative persuasion can certainly have its benefits and be effective. You see it in politics all the time.

Yeah, it's crazy.

I mean, that's all it is.

Crazy.

That's all it is.

It's just fear-based attacks.

Yeah. there was a 1964 Lyndon Johnson ad. It was sort of one of the first like campaign ads like that that was called Daisy and it shows it shows a girl in a field picking daisies, then a nuclear bomb goes off and then the screen like fades to black. And it's basically like the world's ending. Like if I don't vote for this dude.

Oh my God.

My, you know, my family is going to blow up in a nuclear war.

Yeah, that's crazy.

That's negative persuasion. It was effective.

It works.

It works because that's fear-based. And this just argues that the opposite is more productive for society.

More sustainable, more healthy. Gosh. Yeah.

Politics, it seems like it's gotten a lot worse, right?

People win based on those fear-based tactics.

They do, yeah.

I mean, but I feel like Obama won based on positivity.

He did.

And an image, an ideal of something greater.

That is why he won, right?

Yeah.

He, he broke through because he wasn't going to get down to that level. And, I mean, look how from there to where we are. It's crazy, right? It's, the pendulum has swung, like, so far. Maybe it's always now. It's like name, now it's like bully, bully name calling.

It's crazy.

Yeah, I know.

It doesn't seem productive, but that's just me.

Yeah.

So you got the, the, the be original. You got the generous, you know, this giving mentality when we give. of our time, of our energy, of our listening, of our respect. It doesn't have to be constantly giving gifts. It can be just our connection. It can be generous with our listening.

That's right. Time, advice, connections, compliments that you think of but you don't say. Yeah. You know, you're always doing that. You're like, oh, I should. And then you don't, you know, like, give those messages out there. Like, give that. positivity off.

That'll make you more persuasive.

That'll make you more persuasive.

Yeah. And then empathetic. Why is empathetic such a key to persuasion and being influential?

So really, the basis of that is about the idea that we are all connected and related. You know, human beings are. We're the universe's only storytellers. We all share 99.9% of the same DNA. But yet, that being said, the world is like seems super fractured. And so that's really just trying to understand your audience and there's sort of habits on how to do that and not my dad doesn't have the same beliefs. So we don't we hate we were like complete opposites. You still have you still share so much in common and it's understanding shared values. We all at the end of the day want the same things. and so safety, love, safety, love, connection, intimacy, human connection. Yeah, that those are sort of the drivers. And how do you understand how to look for those and don't shut people down? Try to be a little bit more open and be empathetic.

And how are you empathetic when someone is attacking you or making you wrong or screaming at you or just doesn't want to bring the common ground energy and spirit when it's just like, screw you, you're wrong, you messed this up, I hate you, you know? type of energy.

Well, I think it's your job. And, you know, there's cases where you're just like, I'd have had enough. Like, yeah, yeah, that's not worth my energy. But there's, there's ways to unpack what's behind that emotion and what's below it and why that person feels that way.

Through empathy.

Through empathy. And trying to see things from their perspective, why they feel that way and talk, not talking to them the way, like, if they're talking to you, you talk to them back, because that's. counterproductive. If it's something in a business relationship or a family relationship, if it's a relationship you don't need, you know, that's fine. Right, right, right. You don't need that in your life. But if it's, if it's something that you need to work through, it's how do you, how do you understand and, and ask them key questions to see things from their perspective?

Yeah. Empathy.

Empathy.

Collaborative and imperative.

Yeah. That's all about coming together and, and working together.

I used to be so focused on competition. my whole life.

Yeah.

And it wasn't until a few years ago when I was like, man, it's really hard being competitive with everything. And why don't I just start being more collaborative with everything?

And when do you think that, like.

I mean, it started to gradually change over the last six, seven years when I started to open up about sexual trauma and really. Yeah. Kind of being vulnerable about, about the things I've been through in my life and accepting myself for who I was. as opposed to trying to put on these masks. So it really started to shift after that because I was like, man, I'm always trying to compete with everyone to prove my worth to people or to the world or whatever to myself. And when I was like, well, I don't have to prove myself anymore because now I accept myself.

Right.

So I can just collaborate more. And every year I get more and more of this collaborative spirit where I think my default is I want to destroy everyone. Like, I want to crush everyone.

It's like programmed into you, right?

It's like, I need to win. I want crush. But then I'm like, okay, that doesn't support me. Yeah. And it doesn't support humanity. Yeah. Having that mentality. Yeah. So why don't I always come from the place of how can I lift everyone else up and be generous to everyone else? And they're gonna, you know, I'm gonna be up there with them.

Wasn't that why you're successful today? Yeah.

Yeah.

Because of that mentality.

Exactly.

And that, that shift. Did that happen when you were working on your book? Yeah, did it happen like-- It happened before that. Did the book sort of pull that?

It was about six years ago. Yeah, I read my first book. It started to happen right before that. Yeah, it started to happen maybe a year before that when things started to shift. And it was more of like, I was just trying to do things to prove to everyone that I was like good enough or something.

That you were the man?

Exactly. That was like the best.

Right.

And I was just like, what am I doing?

Right.

This doesn't support anything being like, I told you so. Or like feeling like, ah, gotcha.

Right.

Even if it was internally. Yeah. I was like, okay, I got what?

You know what I mean?

It's like, why don't we just all succeed?

Yeah.

So, I mean, my platform in the last six and a half years has been a platform of sharing other people's stories. Yeah. And putting them in front of my audience.

Yeah.

And I think that supports me by putting the spotlight on someone else. Yeah. it always shines and reflects back on you.

Yeah, that's true.

As opposed to saying, hey, everyone look at me all the time. It's not like, look at this idea, this person, this experience. Right. And then the reflection.

And when you think about competition, what are you trying to win anyway? Exactly. You know what I mean? Like, what is, what is winning?

To be like, how do you have the number one person in the space or the most selling books or the biggest, whatever. I mean, I always want to grow. Yeah.

And make a bigger impact, but I've you think that came from sports? That mindset?

It came from being the youngest of four and feeling like I was never seen and needing to be like, yo, I'm here. Catch up to my siblings.

Yeah.

My own siblings were always amazing. I was like, how do I beat them or catch up to them or whatever? Then sports. So I think it's. It's hard to shift out of that mindset when that was my entire life was, like, being number one and being the best. And then I eventually realized when I. My first business was building. it was kind of the engine that got me to where I was, to building like a multimillion dollar business. But I remember just like lots of relationships were suffering because I was very combative. It was like my way or the highway.

Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's like a young entrepreneurial mindset trying to prove which is like, I can do this, I can lead. Yeah, but you can't do it without it's without the team.

That's it.

Like you got to do it together collectively.

That's when I started. Now I started six years ago or six and a half years ago and a lot of things. evolved and it not only evolved in the external world, but my internal world evolved. And that was when I brought a lot of peace to my life.

I love that. So I have a story on empathy.

Yeah.

And understanding the other side that I just can't believe this isn't a movie, but I ran across it as I was working on the book. But in 1914, World War I, there was It's called the Christmas truce. Have you ever heard of it?

Christmas truce?

Truce.

Truce.

Yeah. T-R-U-C-E truce. And on Christmas Day, there was the Allied forces and the German forces. And on Christmas, one side started singing, like, carols.

Shut up.

And they all crawled out of their trenches and foxholes. And they, for the entire day, they, like, swapped pictures of their families.

Shut up.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they made, soccer ball out of masking tape and they had like a soccer screen. No way. I swear to God. Then at the end of the, you know, that carried on into the evening. At the end of the day, they went back into their foxholes and started killing each other again. And it was war, you know, one of the bloodiest wars of all time. That shows you like how similar people are at the sort of pinnacle of like, I mean, we're talking about war, like I'm going to kill you. Wow.

And that they came together.

That idea of coming together and no one shot anyone else. Because it was Christmas Day they put down their weapons. and then they went back and then they started killing each other.

So sad. So beautiful and sad at the same time.

I know, the Christmas truce.

Why don't you just create a peace from there? Yeah, I know.

Just like we're all trying to like go back home. Yeah, let's just call it, you know?

Yeah.

Take your land. I'll take my land. Exactly. Peace out. Yeah. Wow.

Yeah.

So that shows like just how the common ground that we can share, you know, even in war, you know. Yeah.

Yeah. It's all about collaboration. Yeah. and then the fourth habit, main principle is soulful. And the importance of skill hunting and personal Jesus. What does that mean? Skill hunting, I think, is something I talk about as one of the greatest things I've ever done for myself. Is mastering lots of different skills. So I have this tool belt with all these different skills that I can whip out. I can play guitar, I can salsa dance, I can build a business. like and speak on stage, all the things that I was afraid to do. Yeah. I started writing lists when I was younger and I said, okay, I need to no longer be afraid of this. I need to master this. Yeah. They became skills, not fears.

Is that kind of what skill hunting is? It's pretty much what it is. I mean, I think you, you kind of live embody this. It's, you know, you talk about how you were failing English and you ended up writing, writing best selling books and, like, just that. that switch. But the idea behind skill hunting is, you know, there's sort of like life hacking, which is like shortcuts, like the fastest way to productivity.

And then there's, which is not really skill hunting.

It's not skill hunting. It's like shortcuts. Right. Which is how do you hack it.

To kind of do it a little bit?

It's effective. And then there's the idea of sort of more, more, more, like just work until you grind it out and you're successful. which like, I mean, if you don't have a good idea, more and more and more is gonna not do anything for you. And so the skill hunting sort of lies in the middle of those, which is you be really, really great at a few things and then every couple years add like a new tool to the tool belt as you would describe it. Keep trying to look at skills and don't look at a little hobby is like not important. Look at it as like dive deep into it, learn a passion, like learn something really, really well, and then that's a skill you've developed and then move on from there. But don't try to do like 12 things at once.

Yeah. Once you gather six months to a year.

Yeah. Gather these skills. And then over time, what does skill.

Mastering more skills do for your persuasive abilities?

Well, I think, first of all, you have to be really, really good at, like, two to three. Like, you have to master some skills. Then you can go find other skills. But you have to really, really, really master some skills. There's a study recently about the most trusted person in America, and it's Tom Hanks.

Really? He's an amazing guy. Who doesn't like that guy?

But who even knows?

Maine, where life the way it should be transforms all who encounter its spectacular landscapes. Rugged coastlines, pine-scented trails, Sandy beaches, sparkling lakes and tranquil forests inspire you to reflect and make meaningful moments. They offer endless opportunities for adventure and exploration, whether peddling or paddling, hiking or biking. Maine has more than enough outdoor spaces to make the most of long summer days. Relish in exquisite flavors harvested from the ocean and the rich soils of orchards and fields. Maine's makers are rooted in its heritage while boldly branching into new ways of thinking, doing and being. Connect with its people, in warm and authentic towns which beckon you to stroll art galleries and locally owned shops where generations of artists, writers, entrepreneurs and craftspeople see the world anew. It's tempting to do it all when you visit, but take a beat and a breath. Get a feel for the time and tempo of Maine. Simple pleasures, scenic adventures, where every route is the scenic one. Discover more at visitmaine.com Is it just.

Me or is it getting really hard to figure out the best way to save for retirement? Fidelity can help you find clarity so you can save the best way for you. With a free personalized plan, goal tracking, and timely insights, you'll be set to take on retirement your way. Get started at fidelity.com/future.

Expenses charged by your investments and other costs and fees associated Trading or transacting in your account apply Fidelity Brokerage Services member NYSCSIPC.

What kind of guy is he?

But he seems to be very trusting, right?

Well, the reason why is like he's one of the best actors ever. Like he's, he's crafted his skill so that you trust him. It's why celebrity endorsements work. You know why you sell products with celebrities? Because they're so skilled that you're like, well, if they're hawking this product. I trusted their trustworthy people because they've mastered the skill. Mastered a skill.

Interesting.

And so mastering a skill, I think, is, is just really critical to success and not trying to jump into a gazillion things, but really Master two or three things and then add layer on skills after that.

Wow.

Yeah. So, I mean, you, you did that with, of course, Sports and that.

Yeah, that's cool. So. Skill hunting, mastering skills will make you more persuasive because people will trust based on your skills that you're more credible.

That you're more credible and trustworthy because.

You'Re hard working, that you're consistent, you're committed.

You've been able to learn something and be excellent at it. And not just proficient but excellent at it. And then the personal Jesus part is then adding purpose. What is your give back? What are you doing in the world? that's not just for profit or for ego. There's a lot of ego out there. And so what is the purpose piece and how do you look at your skills and match it up with giving back? So for you, you know, pencils of promise is something that you're, you know, really dedicated and passionate about. And so it's really lining, you know, there's an exercise in there of, like, what are the two or three things you're really skilled at? What are two or three things you care about in the world? And if you stare at those two lists long enough, you'll come up with an idea of how to combine those. It's why, you know, from an ad guy, I'm a mad man, right? Like I understand advertising. I'm super skilled at that. It's why we took those skills to, you know, fight sexual assault. And I created a group called the Creative Alliance. It's 90 companies that do social good pro bono work. Those are taking the skills of advertising. You wouldn't think advertising where we're trying to sell products and services for profit.

Right.

Could do good. But anyone can take whatever skills they have and figure out a way to apply them to make the world a better place. And that makes you a more persuasive person.

That's interesting.

Yeah. Yeah.

Wow, man.

Yeah. Yeah. Cool.

It's exciting. The soul for art of persuasion. not just the art of persuasion, the soulful art, the 11 habits that will make anyone a master influencer. What's something people can do today that can make them more influential right after listening to this? Whether they get your book and dive into all the exercises and everything or not, what's something they can do right now to make them more influential?

Like the first easy thing?

Easiest thing that's just like something they can do in the next hour. When they meet the next person they talk to, what's something they can do differently than they don't normally do?

I think the idea of not looking, switching the mindset of transactional thinking is the number one quickest way and thinking about it as the long-term viewpoint. That's sort of the number one thing I would say you could do right away. And anyone can do that switch. That's a really easy thing to do.

So NBC.

Never be closing, baby.

Never be closing.

Don't do it, man. Yeah.

But eventually you gotta close. Yeah, you'll have to run your business or to get the partner you want, you've gotta ask for something, right?

Yeah, of course. You can ask, right? You can pull, not push. You know, that's sort of the big difference. You can pull them towards you, but not push.

I like this, man. I like this. So where can they get the book?

Amazon.

Barnes and Noble do you guys have a website for this or your personal.

Website or soulfulart.com the soul for art.com.

Yeah do you have a personal website.

Or is there more mechanism just mechanism.com.

And mechanism.com mechanism.com is one word it's.

Pretty good mechanism.com but it's with a.

K that's right yeah yeah that's the difference I like it so the book is at the soulfulart.com yeah do you have any bonuses or anything where they.

Can yeah yeah they can download the first chapter Check it out. Check it out. See if you like it.

I like it, man.

Yeah.

This has been years in the making for you.

Three year journey.

Lots of research. Lots of exercises. Practical, powerful, inspiring, storytelling based book. Make sure you guys pick this up. I've got a couple questions for you left. This is called the Three Truths question.

All right.

So imagine at your last day on earth, Yeah, 100, 200 years from now, right? And you get to live as long as you want to live.

Oh, that's dope.

You get to live as long as you want.

All right.

But eventually you gotta call it quits, right? And the lights shut off on this experience for you and you go somewhere else. And you've created everything you want to create in the world. You've achieved it all. You've done anything you want to do. You've done it. But for whatever reason, you've got to take all that work with you. So no one has access to this book, you are, it's all Not wiped off, gone with you to another place.

Okay. All right.

But no one has access to it.

Okay.

But you get to leave behind a piece of paper that you get to write down three things you know to be true about every experience in your life that you would leave behind for the rest of us. Kind of like the three lessons that you'd want to leave behind. So three things you know to be true. This is all people would have to remember you by.

Okay.

What would you say your three truths?

So the three truths to pass on to someone?

Yeah, the lessons to the world.

Okay.

Kind of like your. Your Commandments.

My commandments.

Three of them.

Okay.

All right.

Three of them. All right. Number one, be kind like that. That mental idea of viewing the world through that filter of kindness to other people is sort of foundational. I think it's a foundational point of view. Second is be yourself. You got to. No one can understand you if you don't understand yourself, so you got to fully be yourself. what's number three? Be kind, be yourself, and don't live your life by what other people think. And so if you're making change, it should be change that you want to make, not how it's going to impact or how what people are going to say about your change.

I think that's one of the biggest regrets of the dying. I think there's a, you know, five top regrets, and it's like, not living my life to please other people, but to do it for me.

Yeah. So it's really hard to do.

Really hard, especially when you have kids and you're married and you got business and you got people that you would need to. Yeah.

Every action impacts other people.

But exactly.

It's, you know, you can be yourself and be kind, and then sometimes you have to, once you know yourself, you've got to do things for you. That's it. You know, you've got to do things for you also.

That's it, man. That's it. The soulful art of persuasion. I want to acknowledge you for a moment, Jason, because you've always been kind and generous to me. As long as I've known you for at least seven, eight years. Yeah, yeah. You've never. You've never been closing. You've always been giving. You've always been authentic. You're always offering. You just offered me, like, hey, when you're in New York, come use the podcast room we have. You're never asking for stuff. And I really respect your creativity, your ability to match those two things you talked about. like your skill sets and really helping people get their message out to impact their world in a better way.

Right.

Whether it's Peloton with their community or Med Men or whatever it may be, really showing better stories. I think storytelling is a lost art that you've mastered.

Yeah.

So I respect your generosity, your kindness and your realness. You are yourself at all times. Just around me.

I love that, man.

Thanks. It's about You. Yeah. Final question, but make sure you guys get the Soulful Art of Persuasion, the 11 habits that will make any anyone a master influencer. You can get it right now. Make sure to check it out. Final question is, what's your definition of greatness?

Wow. They say greatness is a process, right? So like you're always, you're always trying to achieve that. But I think, you know, something that I've learned, which I know you've learned too, it's kind of that competitive thing where you're never happy. You're never happy. Like, you're always, like, striving, striving, striving. And I think greatness to me is comfort in where you are at all times. That, to me, is, like, the definition of greatness. Being wherever you are at any given time, making that, like, the best thing it can be. And that's really hard to learn.

Yeah. Accepting where you're at right now.

Accepting where you're at to me is, is, is. That's what great people do. That's greatness. And. It's really hard in this modern era to do that.

Yeah.

Because it's all about climbing and striving and moving and, and, and, you know, more and more and more. But I think that, that, to me, is like being present and accepting where you are at all times is definition of greatness.

My man, Jason Harris. Thanks, brother. Thanks, man.

Appreciate you.

There you have it, my friend. I hope you enjoyed this episode with my good friend, Jason Harris and all the wisdom that he has brought together from his years of experience in the business about how to persuade people, how to persuade clients, how to persuade customers, how to persuade audiences. He's done it all and he's got a lot of wisdom to share. Make sure you check out his new book, Soulful Art of Persuasion: 11 Habits that Will Make Anyone a Master Influencer. It's out right now. If you enjoyed to share with your friends, lewishouse.com/848.

You can text one friend and say.

Hey, I think you might like this episode. Check it out. You can put it on a WhatsApp group. You can share it on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter. Let me know and tag me @lewishouse when you do on social media. And leave us a review. We're constantly creating great content and sharing it with you every single Monday, Wednesday and Friday. I'd love to hear from you. Leave a rating over on Apple podcast right now. Type in a comment of what you enjoyed about this, as I'd love to hear from you. Life is about persuading people to get what you want, to get your message across, to create a vision for yourself that people buy into, to get hired for the dream job, to start a business and get funding. It's all about persuading people to get someone to marry you. We're constantly persuading and there are strategies to do it in a weird, negative way. And there's other ways to do it that are more Soulful, like Jason has talked about. And the quote that I love the most from Roosevelt is people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. And if you truly care about your ideas and you care about helping other people achieve their goals and their dreams, you will ultimately get everything you want in life when you care deeply. about other people. I hope you know that. I hope you know that I care and I appreciate you listening every single week. And as always, you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great. Don't just ride the index. Seek to outperform it with FELC, the Fidelity Enhanced Large Cap Core ETF. Unlike passive ETFs, FELC is run by a team of experts to adapt to market conditions and pursue upside potential wherever it's hiding. And while you get the potential outperformance of an actively managed fund, you can still buy and sell it on your terms, just like any other ETF. Discover FELC, the Fidelity Enhanced Large Cap Core ETF, part of Fidelity's suite of active ETFs. Learn more at fidelity.com/ETF. Fidelity Before investing in any exchange-traded fund, you should consider its investment objectives, risks, charges, and expenses.

Contact Fidelity for prospectus and offering circular.

Or, if available, a summary prospectus containing this information. Read it carefully. While active ETFs offer the potential to outperform an index, these products may more significantly trail an index as compared with passive ETFs. Fidelity Brokerage Services LLC, Member NYSE, SIPC. Hey, everybody, it's Rob Lowe here. If you haven't heard, I have a podcast that's called Literally with Rob Lowe. And basically it's conversations I've had that really make you feel like you're pulling up a chair at an intimate dinner between myself and people that I admire, like Aaron Sorkin or Tiffany Haddish, Demi Moore, Chris Pratt, Michael J. Fox, There are new episodes out every Thursday. So subscribe please and listen wherever you get your podcasts. Comcast is committed to bringing access to the internet to all Americans, including rural communities across the country, like Sussex County, Delaware. We were being left behind. Everybody around us seemed to have internet, but we did not. High-speed internet is one of those good things that we needed to help us move our Our farming, our small businesses, our recreation forward. Learn more about how we're bringing our next generation network to more people across the country at ComcastCorporation.com/InvestmentInAmerica. Prices keep going up these days. It feels like being on an elevator.

That only goes up. Going up.

But not at Metro. We're pushing the down button.

Going down.

We've lowered prices. Get one line of 5G data for forty dollars, period. That's 20 lower. And you get a free Samsung 5G phone when you bring your number only at Metro.

Five year guarantee on eligible plans. Exclusions apply.

See website for details. Not available at Metro with T-Mobile in the past six months. Tax supplies.