850 Tony Gonzalez: What it Takes to Become The Greatest of All Time

This is episode number 850 with NFL Hall of Famer Tony Gonzalez. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. Helen Keller said, Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. The fearful are caught as often as the bold. I am super excited about this interview with my man, Tony Gonzalez. We just got back a week ago from the Summit of Greatness, and it was the four year anniversary of the Summit of Greatness. An incredible weekend, thousands of people flew in from around the world, and I'm so grateful. I'm still on a high reflecting on what that weekend was like. If you enjoyed that weekend, I've been seeing so many people posting about it on Instagram and Twitter. It was just a powerful time, and it shows me how powerful and inspiring this community is. Coming together, creating lifelong friendships. People were coming who had gotten engaged meeting previous years, Business partnerships, building seven figure businesses in the last couple of years, so much inspiration. So I just wanna say thank you for everyone who came. And if you haven't got your ticket for next year, we've already sold 2,000 tickets in the first week for next year. Go to someoneofgreatness.com, check it out. And I can't wait to get back there and see all of you in person. Just amazing. So thank you guys so much. I am pumped about my man, Tony Gonzalez. I've got to spend some good time with him over the last, six months and he's actually my next door neighbor. He lives about a couple blocks away and a much nicer home than mine. But he is just such an inspiration and such a good guy. A great husband, great father and one of the greatest of all time former NFL tight end who was just inducted in the Pro Football Hall of Fame this year. He was a 14 time Pro Bowl selection and holds the NFL record for total receiving yards by a tight end in the second all time in receptions. And following retirement, Tony became an analyst on CBS, his NFL pregame show, NFL Today, where he worked until the end of 2016 season. And he's currently an analyst for Fox NFL's pregame show, Big Time. And he's got a brand new podcast called Wide Open. He dives deep into conversations with the brightest minds and worlds of business and entertainment to discuss health, wellness, and mindset. Make sure to check out Wide Open. In today's interview, we dive in deep as well. We go wide open and talk about how Tony stays open with his heart in an ego-filled industry and how he differentiates himself by staying in that heart-centered space. We talk about visualization, discipline, and other tools to finding your routine for success, facing your fears to figure out what you really want in life, the things Tony wishes he had done differently for his team, and how it has transformed him as a leader and a father. and the greatest lessons he's learned from his wife and his children. We dive into that and so much more. I am super pumped. Make sure to share this with your friends. Episode number 850. Make sure to text this to one friend, lewishouse.com/850. Post it on your Instagram story and tag Tony Gonzalez as well, as I'm sure he'd love to hear your thoughts about this. Welcome, everyone, to the School of Greatness Podcast. We've got Hall of Famer Tony Gonzalez in the house. My man. Good to see you, brother. Good to see you. Super excited about this. We got connected, when was it, a couple months ago?

A few months ago. I don't know, how did we get connected?

I was thinking about that on the way over here. Someone made an email intro. It was Catherine Woodward Thomas, I believe. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not sure where you met her.

Originally, but she had come on the show like years ago. For people out there, 'cause Catherine Woodward.

She does-- She's a therapist. The therapist, yeah. She's a therapist that does marriage counseling and things like that, I believe, still. But I remember I went to a session with her like five years ago when I was going through a breakup a couple girlfriends ago trying to figure out what was wrong with me. Yeah, a lot of girlfriends, huh?

That's probably one thing that's wrong. I know.

It's funny the right girlfriend, which I think I found right now. So I remember going to her because I was just like, am I broken? What's wrong with me? Why am I attracting these women? What do I need to work on?

On my inner stuff. And she was amazing.

Yeah, she was great.

I met her at a Mind Valley event. Okay, yeah. Which is Vishen Lakhiani. Yeah, she's great. And I've become friendly with him. So anyways, yeah, that whole room was filled with people like her.

Amazing. Good room to be in.

Yeah, she connected us over email, I guess. Yeah, because she was just talking to me. And so I had seen your stuff before, School of Greatness, on YouTube. You know, I'm a big YouTube guy. Sure. And so I've been admiring your stuff for a long time. And then it's funny how you meet somebody and she's like, you know somebody that you kind of remind me of is-- Big jock guy. Yeah.

She goes, you, yada yada. And I go, yeah, yeah.

That's how, yeah, it's cool.

So we connected over email, final, I think I came, we met up for lunch and then it came over to your place a few times and, yeah.

I used my cold tub.

I did, man, 'cause I was training over. I know, I love that. I'm gonna come over more. Got an amazing place. We have some things in common. You were an All-American football player, so was I. You went on to play in the NFL. I just played kind of semi-pro football, Arena League. and we're both over 6'4. We're both over 6'4.

And we both hold football records. Really? What records?

Well, I mean, I've got some school records at small schools that don't mean anything. You've got actual NFL records. But I still hold the record for the most receiving yards in a single game.

Really?

At your high school? In college. In college. And it was an all division record.

418 yards in one game. Get the hell out of here.

You had 418 yards in one game. For 10 years, it was maybe 11 years, it was an all division record. I don't think anyone a pro had ever done it, or high school, or college. and then someone in D2 broke it like four years ago. How the hell did you have 414.

Yards in one game?

You know what's crazy? At the end of the game, we lost. I scored four touchdowns. I scored like a two point conversion. I was kicking field goals and extra points. I was like punting, kicking off defense. I was doing everything. It was D3. And they had two or three guys on me. And I remember at the end, I was so focused on the loss that I thought, I was like, yeah, I.

Had a good game.

Maybe I had like 150 yards. and they were like, no, you had 418 yards. And I was like, are you sure the stats were messed up? It was like 17 catches, 418 yards. And it was one of those games, I'm sure you've had this where I just felt like no one could stop me. I just said, throw me the ball. I mean, every receiver says, throw me the ball all the time. Yeah, but I was just like in the zone. They had one guy on me, then two, then the safety over top. It was just like, it was always perfect placement.

And I just caught the ball. Isn't that a good place to be? It's amazing, man. That's the place that I try to get it daily. Can you get into that? that zone, zone, that flow, that heart, that whatever, can you do that daily is what I'm after. That's the question I always have for people. Always, still, always. 'Cause I felt like that during games.

How did you get into that? And when did you know that you weren't into it? You get into it, first of all.

At each level, you know, as you keep leveling up, you have those type of games. I mean, you're a kid out there, and I remember being back in junior high playing basketball. I was a horrible football player, but in basketball, I was like, okay, this is something I can do. And where you feel unstoppable and you are. you are unstoppable in that moment. And then you level up and then you start getting your ass kicked again. And then you start developing and then you start kicking ass again. And then, you know, you keep going up. And then when you get to the professional ranks, I didn't feel like that ever for the first two years of my career. And I've talked about this story before where, the whole reason why I think I'm, the only reason I'm sitting here is because I went through that shitty time after my second year where I led the NFL and dropped passes. It was bad. Look at the Hall of Fame speech if you want to know more about that. But that was kind of my transformation, power of crisis. You know, as the quote goes, you.

Led the NFL in drop passes. Led the NFL in drop passes.

Do you remember how many it was? 16. Oh, yeah. I remember. And then I remember my offensive coordinator named Jimmy Ray, who's amazing, a great guy, but that year he was in front of the whole team. He goes, Tony Gonzalez, you've dropped 16 balls this year, and you've probably led to 32 missed opportunities for this whole team or something like that. He's like, you gotta step it up. and, and that was kind of, you know, that was deep into my depression during that year. In front of everyone.

In front of everybody.

In front of everybody. That's amazing. And that's the thing about sports that is so great. It doesn't matter what sport you play, but you are on full blast. Whether, I don't care if you're in Pop Warner or high school, it doesn't matter what level you can be on your, your rec team at your local YMCA.

Yeah.

It doesn't lie. I mean, you drop a ball, everyone sees the ball. That's you. And so it's embarrassing. if you're the type of person, I mean, there's guys you can call out and they can be like, I don't give a shit. But for me, it meant something to me because I really wanted to be good at it. But I was I was in the wrong place. I was in my head and I was working my ass off. I was working hard and I was logical about my approach. I'm like, okay, well, I'm going to go five steps and then cut it in and cut it out. But you can't play that way. I mean, when the ball is snapped, I think just like anything, when you were playing that game and you had 418 yards, you're not thinking about the next play. You're not thinking about the last play. you're not thinking about what the crowd thinks, you're not thinking about your steps. It's like you're just going, you're just going. And for me over the years, I learned how to put myself in that zone, in that flow, where I could get there pretty quickly when I needed to. Now, I mean, you're going to have bad games, but you'll be consistent if you can get into that state. And that's one of the proudest things that I am of my career. is that I was able to stay. I was consistent. I think that's the Hallmark of greatness, is consistency.

Yeah.

You missed, like, two games. Yeah, I missed two games. But even when I play, like, you can count on me that I'm gonna catch probably around 75 to 85 balls a year. I'm gonna have close to a thousand yards. I'm gonna have almost 10 touchdowns. It's good. A year in and year out. And I knew that no matter what, that's what I was gonna bring. It's because I was able to. To get myself into that, that mental. and that heart connection, you know, that that's, how did you have to connect?

How do you get into that after the two years of dropping everything and being humiliated in front of the team and feeling disconnected? How do you get connected to the heart after that in an industry that is all about ego?

Well, I think sometimes, at least for me, and, and you've probably noticed this more than me because you've been at this game where you're interviewing these, these movers and shakers. The majority of people, they have that story of just depression, that story of like it all went to for me. And where you stop believing in yourself and you suck and you're just not good, where it can bring you to your knees. And that's what happened to me. I was brought to my knees where.

I was literally figuratively.

Literally where, I mean, there's clips of me dropping another ball and just hitting the earth, the grass. out of frustration and I would go home that night and I would be crying in my room drinking a bunch of alcohol and crying and just spiraling out of control. And a lot of people, maybe they go through it differently, but I think that's part of the process. I mean, that's part of you coming face to face with who you really are. And what are you going to do about it now? And I think from there, that's how you learn. at least that created a real hunger for me to go out and actually study the great ones, you know, study the people that have had great success because it leaves clues. I don't know who quoted that. That's not my original. Success leaves clues. But whoever said that, it's wise because the formula for success is there. But we all have these stories that you can, I'll come in here and I can tell you my story. There's underlying, like there's always stories of jealousy, there's stories of, okay, I'm not good enough, there's stories of, of I don't have what it takes and the self-doubt and all that envy and all that stuff wrapped up in different stories. And that's just mine. And I was able to start reading books, reading about people's lives, biographies, then you start reading mind, body, and spirit, those type of books I like to read, and then learn from that. And then you start learning how to use vision, close your eyes, that's really been, that helped me a lot, was just getting to where every morning and every night, kind of the first thought on my brain was, okay, how am I gonna get better at what I do? Maybe that's a feeling of love too, of like, I love playing football. I don't love practicing per se, but I love catching footballs. And I fell in love with that. And I fell in love with the process of what it takes to be great. I came up with this routine of success. I called it that. That was my routine of success. And I did the numbers. I wish I had them. I should have brought them. But just to put it in perspective, because I fell in love with the sport. Because if you're not in love with what you do, you're gonna have to use a lot of discipline. And I always say, if you love what you do, the need for discipline will disappear. Discipline is great in a lot of areas of life, and you need it. But when it comes to what you are doing for a living, you're excited to go. You want to be excited. You want to be like, okay, yeah, it's a grind and I'm working my ass off, but where else would I rather be? And so I went from catching maybe 30 balls of practice, which as a receiver, you know this, most guys go out there, they'll catch about 10 balls to warm up. And then throughout practice, as a starter, if you're one of the main guys who catches balls on the team, You'll catch seven balls at the most during practice. At the most. The play doesn't fall apart.

Everything goes your way. We're talking seven on seven.

You're not catching anything nine on seven. Like really, you don't catch that many balls. And then after practice, everybody goes in. So I'm catching maybe 30 balls like the rest of the NFL does. Believe it or not, that's all they catch a day. Where I said, you know what? I gotta come up with a different routine. Cause Michael Jordan does this. Michael Jordan gets a thousand shots. you know, Kobe Bryant gets 3, 000 makes. Makes, not shots.

Makes 3, 000 makes a day or something.

That's what I read. Wow. You know, you see, like I said, this, those, you want to be like Jerry Rice. This is what I started studying Jerry Rice routine. It's like, freak. I'm like, holy. These guys are, are putting in overtime, and, but you have to love what you do in order to do that. Otherwise, you'll quit. You'll do. I've had guys that watch me. They're like, oh, I want to do what you do, and they quit. They'll do it for about two, three weeks. It's because they haven't fallen in love with some aspect of the game. And if you don't do that, you won't do it. So I caught 30 balls. I went from catching 30 balls a day to now catching probably 300 balls of practice. And you add that up. And the difference, I did it over my career. I remember this number. It's somewhere around this number. If after that third year, so 15 years, I played 17 years after that, going from my third year to the end of my career, if I would have kept doing the routine that I did before. I would have caught 20, 000 balls over my career. That's including practice and then games or whatever. Who knows?

30 balls a day.

At 30 balls a day. The way I did it now, since I'm catching 300 over the four days a week or whatever it is, and don't do. I have the numbers. So people out there like, that math doesn't add up. My math's not my strong suit, but I did it. It was like 245, 000 balls. I've caught. So you just do the math, 20,000 to $240,000 balls caught over a 15-year span. That's what will make you a Hall of Famer. But let's not fool ourselves. You won't do that if you're not in love with your sport and you're not doing the vision, the confidence, closing your eyes, putting yourself in that game speed, that smell of the grass, looking up at the crowd, seeing the happiness from my coaches. Like, I would do this before I even played the game. I do this with my kids and I have four kids, and I do guided meditations and I've seen a result.

Like, it's amazing.

It changes everything when you play the game in your head before you go out there, but it has to come from your heart. And I try to open my heart when I do these visionary exercises or meditations or whatever you want to call it, because that's the most powerful thing on your body. That's what your coach always says. Get your head out of your ass. get out of your mind. You're too in your mind and play with heart. And that's what that means. And that's, that's when you can get to that point and there's plenty of ways to do it. I have my ways and it like everything takes off. Yeah, everything takes off. Do you think you would be in.

A hall of famer if you just stuck to 30 balls a day? No, because people say, well, you're so talented, you're six five, you're 250 pounds, you've got the natural athletic ability. You don't think you would have made it.

No, I. Well, judging off that year, I mean, I dropped all those balls doing it that way. And like I said, let's not mistake. Don't act like I wasn't that guy who was out partying and. And chasing girls and stuff like that. I mean, I did a little bit of that, but I was in control.

It was.

It wasn't. You were disciplined. You were showing up. It wasn't hard. It wasn't because I wasn't working hard. I worked hard as soon as practice started, you know, for that two hours, I'd go out there and bust my ass just like the rest of the guys on the team. But I didn't do anything before that, and I didn't do anything after that.

It was like, that was it. And then I'd go home and I'd be back in my regular regular space.

Where you can't do that. It doesn't work that way.

It might get you in the league. It's not going to help you excel in your league, whatever industry or business you're in.

Whatever industry or business talent is, they say it, talent is overrated. And it really is. Don't get me wrong, you need some talent and pick what you're good at. But if you want to be an excellent, you want to be a mover and shaker, you want to be somebody that has a legacy at what you do, If that's important to you, this is the way to do it.

After that third year, when did you face the most self-doubt?

Honestly, after that, self-doubt never got in again.

Wow. Really?

Never on the football field. Like I said, I was gonna go out there. It was all routine now.

Big games, Monday night games, playoff, nothing.

Never, ever, ever. In fact, the bigger the game, the more honed in I got my better games. came when the stage got brighter and bigger. In fact, you'll go from a point where now when the games are supposed to win, the competition is not as high, that's what you have to concentrate on.

Oh yeah, because you bring your game down.

Yeah, you don't want to bring your game down. You have to excel. And I think it's all routine and just that Michael Jordan, Kobe, Richard Branson, Michael Jackson, he was another, I mean, I could show you clips from Michael Jackson where he's like, I don't know where it comes from. He'll tell you. And that's how it is. You feel like that as an athlete, like you're just out there in that flow, it's just flowing through you. And I remember Michael Jackson, they were interviewing some of his dancers, and they were talking about Michael's, how he prepares for each show. and they were saying, oh, Mike, at two, they would rehearse until two and three o'clock in the morning. They'd start around six o'clock at night and go till two, three in the morning, the same routine, the same routine over and over again. And then they know they got it. And then Michael back, come on, man, let's just do one more. Let's just do one more. And I remember going, wow. And Michael even explained it. He's all, you just, you love it. Like this is now you are where, and, and the hard part is finding that, is finding that passion, finding that love. But I believe, especially for young people, if you just, you just got to keep putting your head out there and be willing to get it chopped off because it's gonna come. Yeah. I wrote a letter to my kids at the Hall of Fame that that, the critics are coming, the pain is coming. There's no, you have to go through that. That's where beauty is or the fear. And I always talk about that, like life takes off on the other side of fear. and you have to be able to willing to sit there in it and ride that wave. Yeah.

When you started to get it criticized a lot for maybe those first few years, and I'm sure you got criticized from the next 15 years after that for certain things. How did you face the judgment, the critiques, the, you know, he's washed up or whatever, they, you know, different ages, you know, I love it.

I mean, that's all fuel when people tell you that you can't do something for me, the way you take that is say, okay, well, I guess I got to show you that I can do it. And when that self-doubt comes, I got into a good place, a good rhythm, where for football, that doesn't matter. Now, and I'm sure we'll get to it. Now, the transition after I get done playing, that's where all that self-doubt comes back, and that fear comes back, and the anxiety, it all came back to me.

Did you feel that right after you retired?

You feel that, yeah, right after you retire and I had a job. I mean, I went straight into working for CBS, being on national television, a main desk that every job, that every player who wants to do television wants. But I had to go through the same thing again. I got beat to my knees again.

Really? Yeah, how so?

I remember I was, after my third year working for CBS, and I loved it. I'm seeing a theme here.

Three years.

Yeah, it's funny. Three. It's funny. The same thing when I was younger, too. Two years of Pop Warner football and finally took off my third year in freshman year, three. But I was, I made the transition. I'm working for CBS. I'm on the main desk. My contract is coming up and I loved working there. It was shot out in New York, but I did not like getting on the plane, going back and forth. And even more than that, I wasn't giving them everything that I could give them. Not because I wasn't trying either. I was trying. I mean, I was working my ass off. What weren't you doing? Meaning, I wasn't coming from a place of in my heart. I wasn't like on the football field. That flow never happened for me when.

I was over at CBS. It was kind of a little bit.

Forced here and there. Forced? Oh, it was in my head the whole time. Like, hey, well, if I say this joke here and I punch it with this word, then it's gonna get a laugh. Or when I am talking about, you know, Rob Gronkowski running his routes, I'm gonna talk about it from this angle, and you can do all that. But if it's not here, it comes off as rehearsed. It's not a good performance. You're performing, it's just not good. And it doesn't feel good to me. That sucks. I was having anxiety before shows. I'm nervous. And I don't want to feel that way. I mean, don't get me wrong, you're gonna have that excitedness. I mean, you need to have a little bit. That helps you run faster. That helps you perform better. You want a little butterflies. But mine was from fear. I was so scared that I was gonna screw up every time and scared of showing who I really am because what if that's not good enough? And so you work your ass off trying to do it funny or to do it without stuttering or whatever it is. I mean, a lot of guys struggle to just watch players that make that transition to TV. It is hard because you have to show who you are. You have to put everything out there just like you're on a football field. just like I'm talking to you right now, whatever. I don't care if you're a doctor, you're a lawyer, or you're a construction worker. It's hard to let everybody see who you really are.

It's even harder because it's your singular voice and you on camera, maybe with one or two other guys or girls, as opposed to a whole team, 20-something people on a field being criticized. You can't hide as much. on camera, right?

Now you can hide it all.

They're picking your voice. You don't have to speak on the field, but you just use your talents.

And that's where a lot of people, it's like, well, on the football field, I can just be physical. But here, I gotta use my mind now. And you want it to be entertaining, and you want to say something good and something profound. But that talk right there, it's like, shut up. Just shut up and go and just speak, just talk. You know this game. And that's what I would tell all these guys. And they gave me this guy that I had to work with. I'm not going to say his name, but it just wasn't for me because it just puts you more in your head. And maybe you have to go through that. But I remember it hit me. I was sitting, we're on vacation in Spain, just me and my wife sitting in a courtyard in a cafe. She starts talking about the contract negotiations with CBS. And I'm almost done with my contract negotiation. And I'm going to negotiate another three years. Wow. But I kind of don't want to be there. And I never told her, I never told my management team or anybody else. And I'm sitting there and the wife saw, yeah, so you got to be pretty happy with it. It was a good deal they offered me. And I'm like, yeah, yeah.

And then- Good money, great deal, yeah.

And all of a sudden, this wave of just fear came over me. Like my body started getting cold and I started sweating. But at the same time, sweating. and I had like a, I don't know if it's a nervous breakdown, but I was like, oh shit. And it was the feeling of fear, just like absolute fear. And the thought came into my head that, what if I peaked? What if the best of me is over? And that's a scary feeling to be in. I did not like that. And I started crying and she's like, what's wrong with you? In the middle of Spain. And I'm not balling or anything like that, but I started tearing up and I'm like, and she's all, I'm all, I just don't know. I have over the last three years, I have not felt how I felt that aliveness, that excitement. I haven't felt it, felt it in three years for what I do. And this is a lot of football players go through this.

A lot of pro athletes, pro athletes, people transitioning into the next stage of life.

Anybody transitioning. and because I've talked about that, I've told that story before in front of groups. And after the show, I've had men come up to me with tears in their eyes and they're like, I've felt that same way. I had a company that was successful for 10 years and then I made the transition out because I wanted something new.

Even if you sell a company for 100 million or whatever, it's like, now what?

Where do you and how do you get back? And then you doubt yourself. You're like, I'll never, I'll never be great again like I was on the football. And obviously I had a great career. It's like a Hall of Fame career. And you're like, so now I never get to experience that again. And I'm 40 years old at this time. And I'm like, I got 40 more years to live, 50 more years to live. And I'm gonna be talking about football games, talking about old, like 30 years from now.

Yeah. Glory days.

It was a scary feeling. And, but I'm glad that that happened. because off of that, I called up my, my manager, Constance Schwartz, and I called up my agent, my television agent, Jim Orenstein, and I said, hey, guys, I I think I don't want to. They're like, yeah, it's a good deal. We're all, we've been negotiating back and forth. It's over. And they're like, I think I'm, I think I'm having second thoughts. I don't want to do it. And they were both like, shut up. Yeah, right, right. My agent was like, this is a mistake. I mean, these jobs don't come along and you're not gonna get a job at Fox. I mean, that's Terry Bradshaw, Howie Long and Jimmy and... Straight ahead. There's no room over there. And I mean, what are you gonna do? And I said, I don't know, but I can't not do this. I cannot live like this. I'm so tired of being afraid. Being afraid when I'm on air. I'm tired of being away from my kids because that was getting to me, you know, flying back and forth to New York for 26 weeks a year. from LA. That's a long hike. And I was like, I'm out. I don't know what we're gonna do, but I gotta, something's gonna work. And that really changed my life. That was like another pinnacle moment in my life that I could either go this way or I can go that way. And I was like, I'm going that way. I'm gonna go to the road that I don't want the sheer thing. I had people close to me, the loved ones are like, Are you a fool? Like you can't walk away from that. And I'm like, well, something's gonna work. And that's where the phrase life takes off on the other side of fear. I was like, I am afraid right now. There is no doubt about it. This is scary. But I believe that's where the good stuff is. That's where the gold is. That's where the diamonds are made. That's where you will achieve greatness if you go up to what you're afraid of, but you know in your heart you have to do. But you go anyway. I'm not talking about skydiving, if that scares the out of you and you're like, I don't want to, but that's not in your heart anyway. You don't want to do that and it scares you. I'm talking about the stuff that you want to do, but you're scared to do, but you feel it. That's where you got to go. And that's where you got to have the cajones or whatever you want to call it, the moxie, the balls, whatever you want to call it. You got to have that and go through that. And there's steps out there and there's people that will help you if you just ask for help. And there's books and there's School of Greatness podcast. There's wide open for you. My podcast. It's all over the place. It's all around you. And the only thing that's stopping you is that fear. And just go for it because that's where the beauty is.

You know, I love that story and it's, I think it's so hard. I think people understand that there's gonna be challenges and fear that they're gonna have to face to have what they want. but I don't think they're willing to be that embarrassed or emotionally like insecure through being dropped to their knees. Because either way, you've got to drop to your knees.

Yeah.

You've got to fail. You've got to look like an idiot or, you know, make fun of yourself or something's got to happen where you don't look good.

Yeah.

When you go after the thing you want, right? Yeah. Like you're going to not look good.

People are going to make fun of you. They're going to criticize you. People. And sometimes the people that are criticizing you are your closest relatives, your loved.

Ones, your husband, your wife. It's just. And it's done out of love, too.

They're like looking out for you.

So how do people manage that emotionally, internally, knowing that they're going to face criticism, judgment, embarrassment, and being laughed at when they go after what they really want?

The greatest thing is to understand that it is coming. So you're not shocked.

Yeah.

Okay. Just know that it, that, that, that, that rose, those roadblocks are coming and embrace it. And that's where I always say, close your eyes, calm your breathing down. This is what I did on the football field. and this is what has dawned on me over the last couple of weeks, is you already know how to do this, at least for me. And if you haven't learned, this is a great technique for me, is you close your eyes, slow your breathing down, relax every part of your body, do it one at a time, and then you open your heart up. And you say that, I am opening my heart, because when you're in your heart, There is no fear of judgment. There is purpose. There is authenticity. Time will stand still when you're in your heart. And now you've opened up your heart now. Say it's love, peace, joy, just whatever you, that's what that means to me. And that's unshakable confidence in there too. And then you put in the vision of whatever it is that you want to do. See the highest version of yourself. See yourself dominating at what you do. See yourself in the moment saying the greatest thing that needs to be said if you're a person who's a personality on TV or whatever it is, or making the great business deal. Or making the catch.

Or making the catch and see the.

Happiness that that gives you, the happiness that gives the people around you, see yourself enjoying every aspect, the highest version of yourself, the greatest version of yourself. And to me, first of all, that can take five minutes or 20 minutes, whatever you want to do, but at least, the very least, it only takes five minutes. It's a great way to calm yourself and breathe. When you breathe slowly, deep breaths, you send a message of calmness to your body. When you're breathing fast and out of control, that's why I look at teammates and all that stuff. It's like, just watch Tom Brady. In the fourth quarter is on.

He's relaxed.

They call it poise. Whatever it is. What poise means to stand in the pocket, he's just breathing slowly and he's calm and he's fearless in that moment. and that's what you have to have. You have to be fearless. And it's, who cares what people think? Tell yourself that I got what it takes. I got this over and over and over again. Repetition, and they're proving this now with studies, meditation clinics, like self-talk is huge. Yeah. It's huge. And it works wonders. And then go out there and learn from the greats. Like I said, just YouTube it.

That's it, man. So much easier now to learn these things because it's so available than when you were growing up, probably, right? I remember I had one CD from some weird, like doctor or psychologist that no one was really studying and I was just like grabbing onto anything I could find. But now that stuff's everywhere and it's accessible. But there's much more judgment and criticism than ever because everyone's online with a voice. And everyone can judge you online now as opposed to just at your school or in your company or at your work or something.

But my thing is who gives a s***? I don't care.

How do people get to a place of not caring?

That's a practice.

A lot of people care about what other people, how they judge them.

I was that person too. I've been that person.

So how did you get from caring to not caring?

Those are the people that are in their head, and that's me. I'm an in the head type guy. You got to get out of your head. And like we said, the coach says, play with your heart. And that's what that means. You're seeing a theme now from me talking about this. if you're a person who's in your head, you have to work now. And just like anything else, it's like catching a football or doing a jump shot or doing a presentation, the more you do it, experience, experience is going to make you better. But the way you accelerate that experience into knowledge and wisdom is by letting go of what people think and letting go of what you think, like really trying to put yourself in that flow in that, in that spirit of calmness. That's how you do it. And it takes time. You're not gonna, more than likely, there's people that have that, you know, that overnight realization. They call that the transformative power of Christ. It's going to Baghdad, read a great book a long time ago. And you can get there. You can do it, maybe you can do it in one night with people talk about psychedelics. You can talk about journeys, talk about ayahuasca, talk about psilocybin. Deep meditation. Deep meditation could do it. Rhythmic dancing, rhythmic breathing.

There's places to chanting, whatever.

Chanting, whatever. Sweat lodges. Sweat lodges, all that stuff. And there's ways to do it. But ultimately, I think if you set the goal, you write it down, I believe in writing down all my stuff, and you see it every day, you read from that every day, you give yourself a blueprint for success that you wrote to yourself. I write myself, I used to write letters to myself the night before games. Oh, that's big. I used to write a whole letter, like you're here, they're doubting you. When I used to write, they're getting, you're getting old, you know they're going to be ready for you. you know, you're gonna have to be double teams tomorrow, but you got this because you're one of the greatest and you're one of the greatest that's ever.

Ever lived to make this game.

Give me chills now. Let's go. And so I'm writing this to myself, to my, this is from me to me.

Would you read it later or would.

You just, I'd read it. It would be on my notes for the week. So I would, sometimes I'd write that at the beginning of the week when we get in there on Wednesday morning, and I'd read it all week, and I would be like, I want six catches, I want two touchdowns, I want 125 yards or whatever it is. That's my goal. If I don't get it, I don't care. Right. But that's what I'm going for. That's your focus is. And I want grade out 90%. So I do believe that when it comes to abundance training or greatness training, whatever it is, right where you want to be, right out what your goals are. And then when you hit those goals, then it's time to reset it, baby. Let's go. Let's keep climbing. Let's keep leveling up and let's keep, you know, and in every aspect of your life, it's not just work. I mean, that's just a piece of the pie. It's a good piece. But you got to do that with your relationships. And that's where I've missed the mark too before. You know, you got to do that with your kids. You got to do that with just strangers on the street, just looking people in the eye and connecting. It's so much more fun to be there. And the only reason you're not doing it, the only reason you're not doing it is because you're afraid of something. You're afraid to talk to the neighbor or you're afraid to open yourself up to people. But the way you get out of that, if you want to get out of that, some people might be comfortable where they are. and go ahead if that's comfortable where you're at. As long as you're not hurting anybody, I don't have a problem with you. But if you do want to get out of that, which I think most people do, that they're, that's how you do it. Just set the goal and then practice every single day. Practice with the person in the elevator. Say hello. You know, you want to put yourself in fearful situations. Yep. And go through it. Just keep putting yourself in those fearful.

Situations and you'll keep leveling up. I promise you. There's, there's no, there's no doubt in my mind. It's already been proven. I know this is a, I'm writing a new book about eliminating self-doubt. and I think self-doubt comes from people that aren't willing to put themselves through enough fear. Just like you said, you're saying everything that I'm talking about in my book, where I tell people to give yourself a 30-day challenge of whatever the thing you're most embarrassed or insecure about and do that thing every day, whether it is talking to the person in the elevator every day or talking to a stranger you would never talk to, but you got to do it over and.

Over until the fear disappears.

It's like anything else. It's a jump shot. That's it, man. It's a jump shot. When you get past that fear, you go to the next one. Yep.

You just keep doing it.

And you become kind of bulletproof the more of those fears that you overcome.

Yeah, I think that's the key. I jumped out of a plane. That's scary. Last year. Yeah.

Was that last year? Maybe I'll wait till I'm 40 or something to do that.

Do you want to do it, though? I don't care to do it. Okay, well, then you probably shouldn't do it. But for me, I've always wanted to jump out of a plane. I wanted to do a parachute, but I was scared shitless. Yeah.

What if it didn't know?

You know? And so I finally did it. The opportunity came up. and I was like, were you terrified? I was at first I said no. And then I thought about it and I said, you know what? I got to do this. I got to do this. Yeah, I could die, but more likely I'm not going to. Sure. But anyway, long story short, you're flying up there. The heart, the hardest part about jumping out of a plane is you're scared the whole time. You're nervous and anxiety and all that stuff. But when they, when you're up at 13, 000 feet, whatever it is, and.

Then they open that door.

Oh, my gosh, man. and you're like, I'm about to jump out of a damn plane. Like, this is about to happen.

Wow.

And. And your skin, my heart was going so fast. And I was the. I was the first one out. Oh, man. Which I'm glad.

I was like, you don't watch other people be like, waiting. Send me back down.

Send me back down. And I was like, screw it. Let's go. And you jump out. And by the way, when you do go through that fear, you always find out that it's not as bad as you thought it was going to be. And the cool thing that I did with the Golden Knights, which are experts at this, and they're jumping and some guy jumps out and he's videotaping you and he's looking the whole time and he starts doing this like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm like, you,'re right, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm enjoying it and I'm jumping out. But when I got to the bottom of that, when I landed and I got on the earth, safe and sound, I was, something clicked in me that I was like, I got this because I've been wanting to do this my whole life and I was scared to do this and I did it and it really changed my life. I was like, I think everybody needs.

To jump out of a plane.

Mandatory. Do you want to jump out of a plane? You talk about facing your fear. Most people are probably scared to do that, but it was exhilarating. It was awesome. Would I do it again? Maybe. I'll tell you right now, probably not, because I already did it once. But maybe I do it again. I'm telling you, what opened up for you after that?

What changed? I felt like I could do anything.

I remember I walked in the room with all the guys, 'cause he did an Air Force Base, it was for Fox. And I remember they're like, how was it? How was it? And Michael Strahan, he went with you? No, he didn't go. He said he couldn't go. He said he wanted to go, but he couldn't go. And I said, man, I feel like I can do anything. I feel like I can honestly, I feel like I can do anything. and he's like, all right, do a backflip. And I'm like, well, that doesn't count 'cause I don't wanna do a backflip. Right, right. Anything you wanna do. But I mean, like you really feel I can accomplish anything because that's all it is. Like I said, and that's why I add whatever you're afraid of, but you wanna do, you feel like a calling to do it, but you're afraid to do it. That's probably, that's your life, that's life giving you that clue. That's the little push right there. That's where you should go. That's where you belong, whether it's starting a new business, whether it's quitting your job and saying, you know what, I've been there for seven, eight years and I'm getting a little tired of it. I would love to go over to this to do this for a living, but I'm scared because the, you know.

I got the family and I know there's good excuses.

Of course. I got kids, I got this, I got family that would be irresponsible of me. But I'm telling you, I do believe that that's you need to make a plan.

Yeah.

Because you'll be so proud of yourself. And yeah, there is that danger of it not working. Yeah. But imagine the feeling, to see yourself, see it working for you. And that might not be what you ultimately want. I wanted to be an actor, you know, when I first got that plane. And you talk about humiliating.

Try auditioning.

Oh man. Get rejected over and over.

Over and over, over and over again.

That brought me to my knees. That was another where literally I was like, oh, this hurts. Because your show used to be in.

The man, the guy. The stud, the all-star, they're all pro, whatever. But now they're just like, okay, you're one of a hundred coming through audition.

And we don't care. and the way to get good at it.

And your name isn't good, you know.

Good enough for us. They don't care about your name. Tony goes, who cares?

Yeah.

We got to make money on this movie. And if you suck, you suck. And so that's another lesson that, that it taught me, that you have to get out of your head, because I was one of those guys. I'd study the script, and I'd look at it, and I'd go over, and I'd be like, okay, well, I'm gonna. When it comes to this, when it says Legends, I'm gonna say Legends, you know, and this and this. And then you rehearse it, rehearse it, rehearse it. It's like giving Yeah. That's read. This is why I don't like reading speeches. People are like, for the Hall of Fame, they're like, Hey, we need your speech. I'm like, well, too bad. I'm not writing an outline. It's going to come from here. Because I believe when you can learn it, and you can perfect a performance. And I was doing that with acting. And then I'd go in there and I'd get crushed. Because the moment you miss that rehearsed, like you start getting in your head, you're like, well, I didn't say that right. That's not how that didn't sound like that in rehearsal. And now I'm getting even tighter and tighter. Now you start, now you're thinking about that in the past instead of thinking about in the future, where true acting or true performing in anything, whether you're a doctor, whether you're a singer or athlete, the good stuff comes when you are completely in the moment and you're not thinking about the past or the future. I've already said this. and then the ad-lib that comes off of that. When you're in the moment, if you get an impulse, you just go with it. That's what Leonardo DiCaprio.

The improv, yeah.

The improv. That's in football. It would be boring to watch. Okay, Tony, you're gonna go 10 yards and turn out. And we want you to catch it. And then more likely they'll tackle you right there. I don't think fans would be like, yeah, it's okay, it's fun, cool, but you want to see me, okay, when I got to the top of that route, the defender was waiting there. So I had to, Juke them up and come underneath and you're not thinking this. You're just reacting. Some people, a lot of athletes do think this and that's where they're not as good. But you're just reacting now and then when you catch the ball, okay, now you got to move and now you got to start ad-libbing. You got to start, that's where the beauty comes and the people that can ad-lib the best are the people that are in their heart and those are the ones that make the performance. That's Michael Jordan when he goes up for the dunk. He's like, oh, you know what? I'm gonna switch it and I'm gonna put it right here now. So clean. And that's when we as fans are like, whoa. It's the ad-lib. It's the ad-lib where the magic happens.

That's true.

And the only way you'll get there is if you're completely in the moment and you can train yourself to get into that flow.

And that takes doing lots of reps over and over again.

Experience.

Experience is the best teacher. Now, success leaves clues, you said, someone else said. But for me, that means that you had a lot of great insights growing up. There was someone or some ones who taught you, and maybe it was coaches or teachers or parents. friends, who was the most influential for you growing up and what was the greatest lesson they taught you?

Okay, before I answer that, by the way, Jared Pobre, a buddy of mine who's a successful business, he's the one who told me success leaves clues. Okay. I'm having dinner with him tomorrow night. I'm gonna go, where did you get that? Yeah, exactly. Because I copied you unknowingly, but, you know, she said that. But the people that affected me the most is my mother. Probably she is the rock. of my life. And the more I look at this woman, I see, you talk about an example of living with your heart. Because my mom doesn't, you know, she's not the most, how do I say this, scholastic person or whatever it is. Don't get me wrong, smart woman. Academic. Yeah, that's a better word. But she is all this. You know, me growing up, I have three adopted brothers. because of my mom's heart. Like she brings people in. I remember we moved around a lot. We didn't have a lot of money. We weren't poor. We just didn't have a lot of money. I think there's a difference there. I always felt like we were good, even though we were on welfare at times. But she is somebody that takes no from anybody. She stands up for what she believes in and she'll love you fully, like the best hugs, hugs and kisses. She was like a, you know, masculine and female perfect into one woman. And so she is somebody that will tell me the truth always. From her, I'm not saying she's right either.

Her truth.

People out there with moms know what I'm talking about. And you need somebody like that in your life. And so she's really, really helped me. And then my brother Chris, my older brother Chris, he's the one who got me started in football. I will say this, that we haven't had a relationship in five years. but doesn't take away the fact of what he did for me when I was younger. Really getting me in football and getting me into that mindset of what it takes to be great on a football field.

What was the best lesson that he taught you?

Really the consistency, I think, and the understanding that people are coming for you. And when you get on top, you know, coming even more. The tall poppy syndrome or whatever.

Yeah, yeah.

It's, yeah, they're coming for you. and so you better make sure that you're taking care of business because you can't relax. Don't get me wrong, I went all over the world and I went out and had fun and I was single for a while and I was doing all the things that single men do unapologetically, you know, and having a good time. But at the same time, when it comes time to lock in, you know, it's an expression of football, lock in and lock out, you know, it's time to get to work. And so he really helped me out with that.

And the greatest lesson your mom taught.

You was that, I don't know if she ever, she's not the type to give you like, okay, but what was.

The thing that you, There's no singers. Yeah, but what was maybe the lesson you learned from her experience or her way of being?

I think just really letting it hang out without caring, and really it's coming to picture for me lately. Really?

How so?

Really lately. I don't, it just, over the last few weeks, I've just, had a couple realizations about stuff that I already knew and stuff that I've done before, but really being cognizant of it. And I see that example a lot in my mom. I think she is so free, she does not care what anybody thinks, and she'll stand up for what she believes in. And I've been afraid to do that at times. I was afraid. We talked about what would I have changed or what I went through as a football player. One thing that I really wish that I could have done more of is not been so afraid to be a leader to my teammates. I could have been a better leader for them. I could have spoke up more. I could have helped my coaches out more. But the only reason I didn't do that is because I was afraid that nobody would even listen to me. It's kind of like me starting a podcast now, like where The reason I would never have wanted to do this before is because, like, who the hell am I? Or who am I to say?

You're Tony Gonzalez, Hall of Famer, man.

I know. Greatest tight end of all time. It shows you how insecure I was with everything. And I was like this as a player. I mean, and that's probably-- that also gave me an edge, too. To work harder. To keep working harder and to keep proving everybody wrong and it keeps going, I am, I belong here, I belong here. You know, you went to five Pro Bowls now. Well, I gotta go to six, okay? You're saying, I gotta go to seven. It just kept adding up. And then I got to 14. And I'm, and you missed a few. You missed a few.

You're not good enough.

You're not good enough.

What's the record of Pro Bowls?

That right there is tied. Well, I had the most at the time when I retired, but I think Peyton has 14 as well, which is good company. Which is great company.

Amazing.

So yeah, it was, it's, my mother really put that in me that, that you just need to, she just laughs, she dance, she can't dance. I can't dance, but she'll dance.

She doesn't care how she looks.

Me, I'll sit on the sideline. I used to, but now I'm getting to the point where, you know what? I'm gonna go out there and dance and, yeah, you can make fun of me. Who cares? You can be like, yeah, you got all that ethnic blood in you, but you can't dance. I'm like, why catch football? So that's what I mean. Like you. And you know what a movie that I'll use that is really hit home with me? I went and saw it with my kids a couple weeks ago.

They had the remake of it.

It's Lion King.

Oh, it's so good. Remember who you are.

Remember who you are.

It's called Simba.

Remember, remember. And that's what it is. I think you have to remember you as that little kid, 'cause we all have this. I have four children. And when they're up, one's 18, the other one's 11, 9, and then we have a four-year-old. And she's still in that, when you have to remember who you are, she's still there. And you know when you're younger, you're honest. You can tell people, you know, when you're hungry, you can ask for help. You go to sleep when you're tired. You dance like nobody's watching. You sing like nobody's watching. There is no racism when you're a child. There is no, the emotions come and they go, they filter through you. So we're not saying you're gonna cut off emotions, but they come right through you when you're a child. And you have to remember that. And remember what is, and when you can combine that with your life experience, and by the way, you're going to get broken. You have to go through those broken stages. That's what adolescence and teenage and all that stuff is about and starting out new. But in the end, that's why I love getting older now. Somebody was complaining to me, she was turning 28, Toby, my wife's sister, and I was like, 28. Like, it is so much better because now you're combining that life experience. And if you can remember who you are, that fearless kid, who used to jump off the top of a roof, used to say hello to everybody. And like I said, dance and sing and play and talk to everybody and be free. That's where your life is. It's like so, so Lion King has been great to me.

Wow.

And just remembering who I am, I write that on top of my journal is to remember who you are and what is that though? And write that down.

Right. Who are you?

Who is that?

Who are you?

And for me, that's, that's, that's fearless. That's to me, it's, and it changes. It keeps changing and it should keep changing. It keeps evolving just like everything else in this world. The world keeps evolving. You know, continents shift and there's cycles and there's, there's rain, there's sun, seasons, yeah, seasons. But you, and ever, you always, you always keep changing. And that's me. And I want to, I'm fearless. I have an open heart. I'm loving. I'm not afraid to connect to people. I'm not afraid to be me. I'm not afraid to dance anymore. I'm not afraid to sing.

You gotta start salsa dancing with me.

Salsa dancing, I'll do it. And going after what I truly want in life and what I'm, but that I want to do, like I said, that's the formula for me is not being afraid to go after what's in my heart.

What's missing in your life right now.

Honestly, it's, I'm feeling really good. you know, wife, kids, family, but I have my goals, you know? So, but I don't count that as missing because I'm enjoying the process and it's, it's coming. It's coming. I look at these goals and, and I know they're going to come. And if it's not that, it's going to be something even better. Right.

How long have you been married for?

15. Well, 12 years.

12 years.

15 years.

You're 15 years together. Do you think you would have had as successful a career without being married?

I don't know.

I don't know if you were single the whole time or just, you know, dating different people or.

I think. I think so.

I think we still have the same career, you think?

I think. Well, because I was on my way to that anyway, before I met her, I was single 10 years. My first 10 years in the NFL. I mean, I was married the last seven. And I did have a child, the older one, from a previous relationship, and he lived out in. in California while I played in Kansas City. I'm still very close to him, obviously. He's my son. But I was out there living La Vida Loca off the field. Yeah. And enjoying myself. Right. So yeah, I think I could have been able to do that. But there is something about that I've noticed too, and I wonder, I would love somebody to do the research on this. When you fall in love, you know, like everything gets greater, right? The sky's blue and the colors and everything, everybody's in a good mood and all this good stuff. And then guys play better. I've seen guys that when they're in love, when they're in love, like their game gets better. Or they have a child, their game gets better.

Why do you think they play better when they're in love?

I think because that's- Or their heart.

Is in their heart.

I'm telling you, I've been thinking about this. That there is a reason that these guys excel when you're there. Because I told you, there's no fear of judgment when you're there. you know, when you're in love, you'll tell everybody, I just want to shout it from the rooftops.

I know, right?

You just don't care.

Don't care.

And so, yeah, I think my wife has absolutely helped me become a better person in other aspects of my life. In football, I kind of figured that out because I was in love.

You were good.

I was in love already in love. It's funny how some guys need that to, to, to help approach their football. But for me, I think Just like if you said Kobe or Jordan or Tiger Woods or whatever, I mean, I think they would have been fine if they never got married. It's just those guys are assassins and they figured out how to machines, put everything out. And I feel like I'm in that same boat. I consider myself one of them. Yeah. Because when I was on that field, nothing else is there. It's just complete time stand still.

What's the greatest lesson your wife's taught you about yourself, about life, about same thing?

You know, they always say you marry your mother and my wife is absolutely in her heart. And I love that about her.

She's got a big heart.

She's got a huge heart. And that's why everybody loves her. That's why, you know, she's doing a podcast called Keep On. And that's, she's so raw, genuinely cares about you. When she's talking to you, she genuinely cares about you because she's interested. She's one of those, you know, they talk about, are you an introvert or you're an extrovert? I'm an introvert. That's all there is to it. Like when I leave a party or whatever it is, I get tired because I'm in there and I'm trying to get to the point where she is, 'cause she leaves these things and goes, all right, where are we going now? Because she draws energy from people because she loves people. And so she's also taught me, it's not about where you come from 'cause her life was a tough one. I mean, her mom died of a heroin overdose when she was younger. So you can get caught up by looking at her 'cause she's beautiful. and go, oh, she's one of those pretty girls, football player wise, but it's not that at all. She's got some deep stuff going on in there because she's been through a lot. I don't know if that's why. And it doesn't mean that, you know, just because she didn't meet her dad until she was nine, you know, they were on welfare, you know, cops being called, like, she's, she's gone through a lot. And that was one of the things that, that stood out for me, that she can still have this great personality. and this unbelievable ability to connect with everybody. She's my secret weapon.

I'm like, I wanna bring-- Should go.

Do the work for you. Yeah, tell me, you gotta come with me to this. 'Cause they're all gonna, they're gonna love her. Yeah. 'Cause she's so open and so nice.

And that's what I try to emulate. She's kind of a hero for me. Oh, that's cool.

When it comes to that. Wow, that's cool. What do you want your kids to say about you when you're long gone? Ah, I wonder what they will say. They're probably gonna say he lectured a lot. That's what my 18-year-old says. I don't wanna lecture. Here we go. What do you want them to say? I want them to say that, that, I mean, hopefully, and I believe this with children too, that it's more about how you conduct yourself. It is. I mean, it's proven now that I can sit there and talk to them until I'm blue in the face. That's why I don't believe people say, do as I, don't do as I do, do as I say. It's like, I don't care because I've made all the mistakes. So now, even though I'm still screwing up, it's like, well, kids aren't gonna listen to you and people aren't gonna listen to you. They're gonna follow your actions. They wanna follow your actions. and so my kids, hopefully I've been that good example for them, and I think they will. Like, they'll see a good example of how to live, and nobody's perfect. And who knows what the future holds for me? I'm fine.

Yeah.

But I think they'll definitely say that this guy was somebody who kept trying to level up. You never, ever want to be. There's no status quo.

Yeah.

I want to keep either you're getting better, you're getting worse to me. then you look around nature and all that stuff, it's constantly moving and you constantly have to keep searching. I think curious, I hope they say that I'm, that he was a curious man and, and followed that curiosity.

Yeah.

Until he found an answer. Wow. And that's what I want from them, because that'll take you a long way. If you're number one, Tom Bailey, who came on, on my podcast, and he's talked about it before, but he said, if anything, I am a learner. and I love his explanation of why, because you can't screw with him. You can't with him anymore. When somebody says, I'm a learner, because if you tell me I suck or I'm not good, you can be like, okay, great. You think that, but tell me how I'm gonna get better. Tell me what to do so I can go learn to get better. And that's how I feel. And I was like, I agree with you. I'm curious. Except I wasn't as evolved as him. Sometimes you could hurt my feelings back in the day. But I am getting to the point where it's like, all right, you can say whatever the hell you want. I'm gonna keep getting better and I'm gonna keep trying. So I want my children to be curious, but I know they gotta get broke.

You gotta have some- All the parents.

Out there, just understand.

I mean, the hardest thing is being like, I don't know what the quote is, but it's like, you never want your kids to grow up with wealthy parents. Yeah, it's like, because they're always kind of given things. It's probably gonna be the hardest thing to make sure they work hard.

I tell my kids that though. I tell them, I go, you guys are rich. You guys got cash.

Yeah, you got cash.

We're not billionaires, but you guys got to take care of, yeah. And people are gonna doubt you because your last name, first of all, they're gonna compare you because of your last name. Second of all, they're gonna think you're just rich and you got it all. I feel bad for all those kids.

I mean, of successful people. It's tough if you're poor. It's tough if you're, I mean, it's, there's a challenge either way, but that's, there's different challenges. I agree.

You might have a nicer home and nicer food and this and that, but there's different mental and emotional challenge. Yes. And that's your, and it's just gonna be your path. That's okay. If it's not one thing, it's gonna be another thing because you're a human being and that's why we're all down here is to have this human experience and you're gonna have to get broke and you have to get cracked apart. It's seasonal just like life is. It'll pass eventually and the sun's gonna come out but you gotta keep willing to get into the ring and you don't wanna be sitting in the stands. It's better to get into the ring, get your ass knocked out, and then to be sitting in the stands watching it. Get involved, get in the game, and let's play it. And don't be afraid. And just know that you're gonna take some shots. It's just like sports. It's just like, anybody out there, they're hitting the ribs, man. They're hitting the ribs, man. You have children, you wanna complicate your life. Have some kids. You haven't had kids yet, right? No. And you probably, are you gonna have kids one day?

I think so, yeah. Yeah, well get ready, okay? 'Cause the shit ain't easy. What's the lesson you could give to me as a potential father in the future? What would you say as your advice?

Well, you just had your son just.

Broke his arm and you're running around.

And oh man, and they're fighting this morning. Now he's pissed off 'cause he broke his arm, so he's mad, he's yelling and fighting with his sister and whatever. So yeah, kids complicate everything. It really is. It really is tough.

That's why I haven't had kids for.

As long as I have. Oh, I believe that in finance is the number one reason for divorce. 'Cause you talk about all these different persons, especially the more kids you have, it's tough. But it's the best thing that ever happened to you too. It opens your heart up even more. And so I would say approach being a father or a mother, whoever's listening, just like you would approach your job, using all the principles that I'm talking about. Realize it's going to be hard. It's going to bring you to your knees sometime. But there's so much information out there on how to be the best parent you can be and really connect to them. Don't try to bring them up to your level. Go to them. And this is something I had to learn the hard way. It took me a while to learn this, but get down on your knees, look those kids in the eye, and listen to them and open your heart when you're talking to them and dance and play with them. Become a little kid with them, because they're not ready to come to your level. And I know people are out there, I'm not saying you have to do baby talk and all that stuff.

Right, right.

And people out there, well, I treat my kids like they're an adult and like this, because it helps them get older and better, wiser, faster. I'm like, who cares? Little prodigies, most prodigies don't work out. Just know that.

Look up the stats.

LeBron's one of the few. One of the few. I mean, don't get me wrong, they work sometime. But you look at that's incredible and you look at all these shows. Tiger Woods was on there when he was younger.

Yeah, it worked out.

But most of those kids are dribbling. You see them on YouTube and running fast and juking all the kids. Never hear about them. They fizzle out. So enjoy, enjoy it. Enjoy being a parent. Enjoy, really try to look at it as just fun. and your kids will love you a lot more for it. And you can't force the flower open. I always feel like children are little flowers and you water them and you put the good fertilizer, you put the good food down there for them to grow, but you can't force it open. You have to wait for them to open.

And it might take a long time for them to build roots underneath, right?

My 18-year-old took red. This is the first year I've seen this. kids just blossom because in my other kids are different. They're way, everybody's different. There's all these different personalities and you can't blanket pair it. Every kid is unique and individual. Just like if somebody works for you, you have to really hone in on what their gifts are and grow it.

This is beautiful. I've got a couple final questions for you.

Sure.

This is called the three truths. So imagine it is your last day on earth and you're as old as you want to be. you get to pick the day, but eventually you got to leave the physical body. Yeah. It could be 100, 200, doesn't matter. Modern technology, thousand, whatever it is. You got to go at some point. And you've created and achieved everything that you've written down in your journal every week. Like it's all come true.

Yeah.

All the success you want, the love, everything, it's happened. But for whatever reason, you got to take all your accomplishments, your work with so no one has your podcast anymore, anything you've written down, any video access to you, it's all come with you. But you get to leave behind a piece of paper that has three things you know to be true about your life. That would be the lessons you would leave behind. Three lessons that the world would have, and this is all they have to remember you by. What would you say?

Words?

Like a lesson, like a lesson. It could be a sentence, it could be a paragraph. But just three different lessons like come from your heart. It could be a lesson.

Yeah.

Well, always give your best, you know, whatever your truth is, what would be the three things you'd want people to have as lessons from you?

When it comes to what you love, life takes off on the other side of fear. I think relentlessly pursue what you love.

I guess, You guess or you know?

No, I know. Relentlessly pursue what you love. And when speaking and listening, do that with your heart.

That's the third one. When speaking and listening, do it with your heart. I like it.

Yeah. Like your mind, your heart, prosperity and fun come when you're Heart becomes the filter to your mind's thoughts.

What do you mean by that?

So I believe everything you want will come when you can filter what comes up into your brain and filter that down through your heart and let your heart speak it. So yeah, fun and prosperity come when your mind when your heart can become the filter for your mind's thoughts.

That's good. I've never heard it said that way. Quote Tony Gonzalez.

Yeah.

Okay. What is the thing you are most proud of that most people don't know about you?

That most people don't know about me? I think that's a hard one. Louis, what the hell?

Hey, we're trying to get wide open here.

I know, I love it, but I'm like, okay, what the hell? Most proud of? I'm trying to think. 'Cause I am pretty wide open.

Like most people, I'll just tell them something that I saw your actions was like, when I was over your house, you were like, yeah, I make breakfast for my kids every day. Oh.

Or like five days a week.

I'm not sure how many times, but you're like, pretty much every day I'm getting up, I'm making gourmet bread, I'm doing the pancakes, I'm doing everything.

Yeah.

And I'm really proud that I do that for them. And I was like, that's pretty cool.

Because you could have a chef doing.

This, you could whatever, have them do it. But, you get up and you make breakfast for those kids. I think thats that's something that inspired me as a future father. It's like, woow, I want toa be I want toa be like that Uh not like I wa want toa be a wholl famer, but like I want to be like a dad that makes kids for his breakfast.

Uhh.

I think that that gets me, like, you know, emotional Well, that's a good.

You know where I got that from? And it's funny, the you know, I, uh you ever seen Casino with with.

Uh, thep drpped in Jo Peschi? Yes.

So Jo Peschci in there, he's like narrating it and he goes No matter what I don't know what we did. I'd always go home and I'd make.

Breakfast for the kids. There you go, yeah.

I'm shooting people in the middle of the night. Yeah, I'm shooting people in the middle of the night, you know, I'll walk you out, a couple people, but I'm gonna go home and make pancakes for my kids.

Yeah.

So that's where I got that from, and that's a good one. I would say that, because that is pretty unique. I don't know anybody else who does it, but I really love doing that for the kids. I did it this morning.

Yeah.

I like being the short order cook.

For all four of the kids.

Or whoever friends they have there.

That's cool.

I love opening up my home to people. I get that from my mother. So yesterday we had probably 20 kids at the house. And if you get to know me, you're like you, you've come over a couple of times, come on over and I'll have other people there. I love hosting people at my home.

That's cool.

And then I love to read. Most people, I guess maybe you probably do know that, but I love to read I always want a book in my hand. That's cool. About something. Mind, body, spirit related. It could be a story, but I want to learn. I love it, man.

It's good stuff. I love learning this about you. Okay, we've got a new show that's coming out soon. Yep, wide open.

It hasn't come out yet, right?

Wide open the podcast. Coming out soon and they can get it where? Where can they get it? Where do you want to send people to?

Well, I think we will be on Facebook.

We'll be on iTunes, we'll be on Apple Podcasts.

I got my little cheat sheet here. Yeah, Spotify. It's on everywhere.

Nowhere podcast.

Yeah, it's on everywhere podcast. Spotify, Apple, all that stuff.

And do you have a website yet?

Tony Gonzalez 88. Okay.

Are you putting out information there?

Are you doing a newsletter? No, we're not. I got Nisha here.

She's helping me out. Can they subscribe for updates anywhere on your site or is it just social.

Media follow you on? Right now it's social media.

But you gotta get you an opt-in somewhere.

Yeah, Tony Gonzalez 88. Social media, you you can you can check out all information there and then it's all going to be coming out. And I got to tell you, thank you, because you are you are an inspiration for me to even do the podcast because I was watching your shit and I was like, this is great. And there's a lot of people that have done stuff like this, but I'm doing it because I love it. Yeah, because I feel like I do have a lot to share. And a lot of that is honestly is being inspired by you. I found out that you play semi pro football and all this guys. Guys. And I look at it this way, like we're all in this together. Of course. And you have your crowd. And then Gary Vaynerchuk has his crowd, and Tim Ferriss has his crowd. We all have these crowds, but we're all making the world a better place by presenting information that we love.

Yeah, man.

I appreciate you. Of course, man. For taking the lead on all this stuff. I've been doing this for how long? You've been doing this show? Six and a half years.

Six and a half years. Yeah, I'm looking at this wall. I'm like, this is nuts. 840 episodes. Yeah, this is great. And if I could do it, you could do it easily. Trust me. I mean, it took some time to learn how to connect and interview, and I had no clue what I was doing, but I was just curious. You know, kind of like what Tom talks about is being curious, and I think that's going to be what's going to make your show great, too, is you being curious and not trying to script everything. Nah, I don't know. Your team was like, oh, send over questions. I'm like, nah, we're going to keep it open. You know, we're going to make sure that it's, Yeah, that's authentic. And I like to hear that you're like, actually, I don't know. Let me think about it for a second. For me, that's the stuff where the magic comes right after that. The ad-lib. Exactly. The ad-lib. That's where it's at. So wide open, it's coming out soon. They can follow you on Instagram.

You're gonna be doing hopefully more stuff on there. I see you doing a little bit more there. I'm trying to get acclimated. This whole social media thing has been a little bit of a thing for me. You asked my team about it. I'm kind of, I'm part Charles Barkley, where Charles is like, I don't need that stuff, you know? But it's also, at the same time, I understand the knowledge that you can bring to people. Of course. The help, it's there. Yeah. And it's fun.

It is fun.

I just have a hard time stopping my day sometime going, okay, hey, I need to put something else out there. But I do understand it and I'm.

Getting into it and I'm starting to enjoy it.

It's cool.

Yeah, and your team will support you. They'll support you. Okay, they can go subscribe to that. How else can we support you besides that? You're gonna be on TV every week.

Football season is here. And so, yeah, Thursday night football on Fox, and then Sunday football all day.

It's amazing, man.

All day. Talking about what I did for a living. The glory days. The glory days. And that's pretty much it. I am working on a book here.

Really?

That's what's that gonna be about? It's like a little handbook is what I'm doing. That's the idea of it. It's not really a 280 278 page book. That's what they told me, the last book I wrote back a long time ago. It was like, yeah, it's gotta be 278 pages or something like that. It's a sweet spot, but this is a little bit shorter handbook.

That's cool. On how to, more like life principles or what?

Yeah, like leveling up. That's cool. I don't care who you are. Let's get better if that's what you're into.

I like it.

Given my take on that, and there's a lot of takes out there, but underneath it all, it's all the same thing just presented differently, and you have to find what connects to you. You have to find what connects to you.

I love that. Well, if they follow you on social media and the podcast, then you'll announce that when it comes out in the future, they can get the book. Before I ask the final question, do.

You have any questions for me? I told you, I'm gonna bring you on the show.

Okay, we'll do that then.

I'll have people come listen to that one. I want you to sit there.

I want to see you tearing up a little bit, going, okay, tell me. I cry all the time with this show. Yeah. Well, I want to acknowledge you, Tony, for, we've only known each other for a few months, but I really acknowledge you for your authenticity and your openness. Like you came to me and you were like, hey, I have questions for you. Can you help me out with this thing? That's some stuff you're going through in your life. We've connected at your house a few times. You're just such a giving, generous human being. And for me, that's what matters. The Hall of Fame status, the records, all that stuff. It's cool. But if you don't have the caring, giving nature, it's not as fun to be with someone. So I acknowledge you for your continued curiosity at such a high level. You're so successful in what you've done. You're at the top of the world, and you're still a giver. You're still curious, and you don't act like you have it all figured out. And I think that's really hard for someone at your level to do. And I acknowledge that about you. And I just think that you're just getting started, man. This is all just like Groundhog Day. You're just getting started, and I'm excited for. For everything in the future. I'm excited for our friendship and. If there's anything I can do to support you, please let me know.

Thank you, bud.

Yeah, man. Thank you. Final question is, what's your definition of greatness?

Isn't that what we talked about this whole time? Rewind the damn tape. Definition of greatness, I think, curious, open heart, and fearlessness. I think if you can be curious, have an open heart, And to me, open heart means no fear of judgment, total presence, not worrying about the past or the future. That's what open heart, like joy, joy, like really finding joy in other people's joy. That's what I call joy to. That's being in your heart.

Joy, joy, is what you said.

I call it joy, joy. That's cool. I tell my kids, you gotta have joy, joy. And if you can be fearless as you approach that, as you stay in your heart, really, the sky is the limit. You will have whatever you want. It doesn't mean you're not gonna get your ass kicked, but you will have it all. I promise you will. Because it isn't about the money, it isn't about the fame. Trust me, there's miserable people that I know that have a lot of money and have a lot of fame. It's about what's in your heart and being fearless as you approach that. And so that's my definition.

There you go. All right, my man. Appreciate you.

Thank you.

Thanks, brother.

Thanks for having me.

There you have it, my friend. I hope you enjoyed this episode with Tony. I love his mindset. I love how much he's been able to constantly grow after all those years in the NFL and consistently stay at the top of his game and get better every single day. Make sure to share this with one friend, two friends today. I don't care as many people as you can, but at least one person text a friend this link, lewishouse.com/850.

Be.

A champion and a hero in someone's life today by sending them this valuable information and inspiration. It could truly help someone transform and upgrade their life with this tool in this interview. Again, lewishouse.com/850 make sure to share it on Instagram, tag me, Louis Howes, and tag Tony Gonzalez so we can know what you enjoyed most about this. Share it with your friends over on social media. And as always, if you have not left a review yet, please leave me a review over on Apple Podcasts, over 5,000 plus five-star reviews. I don't care if you leave a one-star or five-star review. I just want you to leave a review and tell me what you think about this show so we can continue to learn, improve, and make it better.

For you.

So make sure to leave a review today as well. A big thank you to Tony again for coming on. Make sure you guys check out his new podcast, Wide Open. He's got some amazing people on there already and he's going to help a lot of people in this stage of their life. So make sure to check it out. Give him a follow over on Instagram. Send him some love again. Share this with your friends. And as always, you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do Something great.