857 Jim Gaffigan: Life Lessons From a Comedy Genius

This is episode number 857 with the comedy genius Jim Gaffigan. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. Langston Hughes said, like a welcome summer rain, humor may suddenly cleanse and cool the earth, the air, and you. Welcome to this special episode with Jim Gaffigan again. I am so excited about this. And I want to take a moment to say thank you. Thank you for showing up today. Thank you for getting out of yourself and saying hi to your neighbor. Thank you for Encouraging your friends and family to be better, to grow. Thank you for having compassion for other people. Thank you for not comparing yourself to too many people today. Thank you for showing up and becoming a better version of yourself. There are so many people in the world that complain, that make excuses, that are negative, that are constantly aggressive about what they lack, instead of focusing on what they have and what they are grateful for. And so many of you are constantly posting on social media positive things about your life. And I see it. I watch it. When you tag me and you talk about the podcast, I see what you're up to and you inspire me. So thank you for all that you do today to just be a little bit better than yesterday, to have a little bit more care for others than yesterday, to forgive yourself a little more, and to have a little bit more peace in your heart. Because that's really what the world needs more of, is peace and love on our heart so we can give it away even more to other people. I'm so excited about our guest. Had an incredible time sitting down with this man. I wish I had more time because he has an amazing heart. And if you don't know who Jim Gathany is, then you must not have Netflix or Amazon or social media because he's everywhere. he is a Grammy nominated comedian, actor, writer, producer, two-time New York Times bestselling author, top touring performer and multi-platinum selling father of five. He is known around the world for his unique brand of humor, which largely resolves around fatherhood and his observations on life. Jim has had several successful comedy specials, including Mr. Universe, Obsessed and Cinco, all three which received Grammy nominations. He co-created and starred in the TV series based on his life called the Jim Gaffigan's show. And this year, Jim was named number three on Forbes' list of the highest earning stand-up comedians in 2019. His new stand-up special, Quality Time, is now streaming on Amazon Prime, and tickets are on sale for his new comedy tour, Secrets and Pies. I highly recommend you go get a ticket and check both of those out. And in this interview, we talk about how Jim used improv to overcome his fear of public speaking. We both talked about our fears of public speaking, he dives in deep on how he overcame it. The importance of pursuing work for the right reasons and not just for your ego, how that will destroy your work. How Jim strategized with the distribution of his latest special to expand his audience. And he took a risk. How watching his children face their fears and failures has fueled his comedy and the powerful lessons he learned about humanity from his wife falling ill. I am so excited about this episode. Make sure to share it with your friends, lewishouse.com/857, text one friend right now and let them know that you're listening and have them listen along with you. And without further ado, let's dive into this episode with the one, the only, the comedy genius, Jim Gaffigan.

Welcome back to the School of Greatness, everyone, with God, Jim Gaffigan in the house, my man. Thanks for having me. Fellow Midwest guy. There you go.

Fellow D3 all-star football player. I wasn't an all-star, but thank you.

All-star center.

I was the center. Walk out of Purdue, did you ever play after Purdue?

No, no.

I didn't, you know, it was one of those things where I applied to Georgetown. That was my dream in high school was to go to Georgetown.

And where was it, where's Georgetown?

You mean in Georgetown, DC? Gotcha. And-- that was D3 then. It was D3. It was my dream to go there. My brother went there. I didn't get in. Like, my dreams were crushed. And so-- and Purdue's a great school. And I got in there. And, you know, I don't even know if I had plans to play football at Purdue. I think it was kind of like my dad was like, Hey, there's an opportunity for you to walk on. Like, I think we got a letter from the coach, like, he'd love for you to walk on.

And I'm like-- Be like a practice dummy.

Now I have to walk on to a big 10 school when I probably, you know, I probably weighed 190.

No way.

You know what I mean?

So you weren't the strapping 240 that you are now?

I wish I was 240. Yeah, no, I was a different man. You know, I was in different shape.

Yeah.

190.

Yeah, I was probably 190.

Did you play center at Purdue? Practice squad or?

No, I just, I walked on. I did it for, you know, I don't know, five weeks. And I was like, this is insane. And there was, I remember there was a meeting and the guy who was the fitness guy was like, he actually goes, I don't think that you're gonna be able to gain weight with muscle to play in the Big Ten. And I was like, I didn't want to do this anyway, so. But it was a great experience. You know, it's fun to, to, to terrify yourself by doing stuff like that.

Yeah.

And that's not to say I'm not a coward. I am a coward. But every now and then you gotta challenge yourself.

Do you think you would where you are in your comedy career without walking on a purdue and actually taking that fear and challenge and saying, I'm gonna do this thing, even though it's the, it doesn't make any sense. I'm not big enough. I'm not fast enough. I can't put on the muscle. I'm not gonna play, but I'm gonna do this anyways.

Yeah, I, you know, I wish. I mean, I'm, I wish I knew what was the things that contributed. I think also I was raised to kind of. I was the part of this family that had been in the US for a while, but my dad was the first one to go to college. I was raised to seek security, to wear a tie, and get a job where you can't get laid off and stuff like that. So, I think probably in my 20s, I mean, I graduated, I got a finance job, I was miserable. So that was one step. But then, in my early 20s, my mother died, and I was like, all bets off. Like the whole charade of life kind of being fair is not true. You know what I mean? And I know compared to other people's stories, that's not that dramatic. But for me, like, I was like, well, if this, you know, if she's 50 and she's gonna die, I have to figure out what I wanna do now.

Wow.

How old were you then?

I was probably 22.

Okay. And dad's still around?

Yeah.

Yeah.

How was that for you, for that transition? Did you say, I'm going right into the thing, the comedy right now? Did you know you wanted to get into that, or was it just-- I.

Had a huge fear of public speaking.

Me too.

So I-- the worst. Isn't that ironic? The worst. Yeah. No, I used to turn beet red.

Oh my gosh.

And I had found a job in New York working in advertising, and I would have these ideas, but I would turn red and then Someone was like, you gotta, you know, you gotta get more comfortable speaking in a group. And it's not like I was in front of a large group.

I was just- 10 people.

10 people.

In a boardroom.

And I would just kind of hyperventilate. And so I took these improv classes and then someone was in there, a friend of mine kind of dared me to do this stand-up seminar, 'cause I would not just go and do stand-up. I needed to like, Someone would be like, Hold my hand and go, Here, you are funny. Let's do this joke. So I did kind of a thing like that, and then-- Like a workshop, so-- It was like a workshop. Three-day, week-long workshop. It was like, yeah, once every-- One day for a week, for a month, and then you did a set at the end. And this is in the '90s, and performed at the end, and just loved it. Like something clicked. But I, you know, even when I was in college, the night before I graduated, I said to a friend of mine, I told her, I was like, you, know, I just want to be an actor and a comedian, but everyone wants to do that. And she was like, no, not everyone wants to do that. And I thought she was kind of lying. I was like, well, I told the one person my truth, and it ends up being the person that doesn't want to be an actor and a comedian. It was a long process to, and I am grateful that I found my passion or my passions, I should say.

Yeah.

When I was, I finished playing professional football, arena football, which is really getting paid 300 bucks a week is not professional, but I was getting paid to play what I loved, right?

That's impressive.

Maybe like you in the first year of like, hey, if I got 30 bucks at the door, it was worth it.

It's that.

Yeah.

30 bucks at the door. And I remember when I was done, I had no clue what I was gonna do next after my dream was over. of playing football. And I met a guy who said, who was a public speaker, and he would travel and do college tours and get paid like 10 grand a pop. I was like, how do you get paid to speak? I can't even speak in front of a group of five or 10 without getting nervous, like you said. He said, you, got to join this thing called Toastmasters.

Yeah.

I remember I looked into it. Yeah.

Which is kind of like, I don't know, improv for public speaking, I guess. Yeah. And so I did that every single week. for a year and I was horrible in the beginning. But at the end, I felt like I finally had that confidence just by doing the thing I was afraid of.

Yeah.

Now did you jump in right after that into touring and- no, no, the local, you know.

There was, you know, it was a good six or seven years of just eating. Just, my family thought I was crazy. You know, we live in a day and age where Stand Up seems to be everywhere. It's on streaming audio and visual platforms and, you know, there's satellite radio and YouTube and Comedy Central. But back then, it was-- Stand Up had almost shifted into this kind of bad joke on the Simpsons. And so it was not some-- Like there was this mini boom, I think, in the late '80s, and then it shrunk. And so there were a lot of comedians and not a lot of places to do it in front of an audience, so. Yeah, it was hard to, and they didn't need another white guy, you know what I mean? And there were comedians that had started a couple of years before me, like Dave Attell and Louis C.K. that were great. So, like, they didn't need it. The world doesn't need any comedians. You really have to, like, have the audacity to just go, I'm gonna do this. And for me, it was, I think it was, you know, I've never done heroin, but I imagine it's like you're chasing that high. Yeah, yeah. that first time was pretty empowering.

And.

I loved it, you know?

What do you think you've learned the most about yourself in 30 years of comedy? Biggest lesson you've learned about who you are?

There's been so many. I mean, stand-up is a conversation with the audience. And, I mean, it's not a fair conversation. One side has a microphone, the other side is allowed to laugh or be quiet, right? I think that, I mean, I've learned so much, you know, it's, and some of it's stuff you don't wanna learn, you know, like, well, I think even when I was in the, you know, growing up in the Midwest, I thought, you know, I grew up in a small town in Indiana and I would look around with my friends, I'd be like, there was a mistake, we're not supposed to be here. But when I finally got to the East Coast and started doing standup, everyone was like, you,'re Midwestern. And I was like, wait a minute, but I just left there because I didn't fit in there. There's nothing normal about going on stage and making strangers laugh. And there's innumerable things I've learned. I've learned that I'm vulnerable. I've learned that stand-up has allowed me to articulate some anger probably in a palatable way. I've learned that how I come across. I've learned that my upbringing was relatively sheltered, you know, that, you know, there were socioeconomic differences beyond the fact that I grew up kind of in a rural suburban environment. I've learned humility, maybe.

Really?

Yeah.

And that, you know, and that's not to say that I don't have to learn it over and over again, but there's no guarantees. And so, but that's also probably what I like about it, right? I think I like the risk and the conversation and keeping that conversation interesting. I don't know.

What's the thing you've learned about people in 30 years of doing stand-up?

Oh, wow. I think I've learned that, here's what I would say, all right? I mean, I, this is what, this is my personal philosophy, okay? I believe that you can either, I think human beings are very easily manipulated. And I think that you can either lead them to light or darkness. We all, you know, like the most emotionally evolved person loves blood and sex. And the thing is, is that.

If.

You bring light to them, they will respond with light. But if you bring darkness, because we're animals, do you know what I mean? It's like if there is carnage, they'll want more carnage. And so I think probably like seven years in, I learned that if you treat people like they are intelligent, sensitive people that maybe they'll respond in kind. It's weird, you know? It's like you see movies or TV shows that are graphic and dark, and it reminds us that this is a brutal existence. And then with comedy, you can also bring observations and self-awareness in a way that where we can laugh at ourselves.

Yeah.

And I knew that I didn't want to do comedy at the expense of someone else because I feel like, you know, maybe as a young, awkward, pale kid, I didn't want to subject that to someone else. But, and again, it's not perfect. I'm always learning. But, you haven't figured it out yet? I haven't figured it out. Well, not consistently, right? Moments, maybe. You know, it's like having kids. It's like first day of school. I'm like, you're gonna go and find that kid that feels uncomfortable and you're gonna go over and you're gonna say hi to them. And it's like, that's the kind of thing that, you know, I think, you know, we can always have a little bit more of that. And so I don't want my stand-up to be those people, those idiots. I want it to be kind of like, we're all kind of idiots. Do you know what I mean? Or I'm an idiot, but maybe you can see yourself in me.

Yeah.

Because I understand that it's appealing to say, those idiots. But we're all idiots. We're all idiots.

Different stages of our life.

And it's also, it's not constructive.

Right.

Do you know what I mean?

Being better than or less than or whatever. Yeah.

Yeah. I think that's a constant struggle, right? I mean, that was the other thing that I think I really learned was we intellectually know we can't get caught up in other people's expectations, but we end up kind of sliding into that constantly. It's, you know, this movie American Dreamer. I really just want, I love acting, I love the opportunity that it presented, and I want, you know, this is my goal. My goal is for other directors and writers to see this film. But that being said, I also have been on this planet long enough to know that my ego will be like, Yeah, but I'd also like, you know, it would be nice if someone said I was good. Do you know what I mean? Of course. But like, intellectually, I know what I should focus on.

Yeah.

Because I think there was so much frustration for me in my career around seven or eight years where I was like, you know, I'm gonna be, because all my friends had appeared on late night shows like Conan and Letterman and the Tonight Show. And that was how things were measured at that that I, and I had gone like three years where I was like, it's, it's, I had to face the reality. It was never, there was a possibility it was never gonna happen. And so I had to realize, all right, why am I doing this? Am I doing it for some kind of accolade or fame, or am I doing it because it's creatively fulfilling? And so I really, you know, and some of it was therapy, but I was like, all right, so I'm doing this because I enjoy it, because in every set, you know, I might come up with a new line that's gratifying and, you know, it's nice to make a room full of people laugh. So let's focus on that. Bring it on.

Yeah.

That creative fulfillment Pursuit is, is something that I've learned over and over again. I've taken acting jobs that reinforce that. It's like, did I take this acting job because it was pleasing my ego or because other people were like, you,'re gonna get this amount every week. And you're like, oh, that's great. But like, the gym I know doesn't care about that. So I care about the fact that I can act or play a complex, layered character.

Yeah.

I know that sounds corny, but... No.

I think it's interesting. Have you ever taken a job or a gig or a show for the ego or the accolades falling flat on your face because it wasn't for creative pursuits or it wasn't to bring people joy?

Yeah, no. I worked on a TV show that, you know, there was pilot season. There was a lot of close calls and that frustration. So after I had learn this lesson in stand up to just kind of focus on, I love doing this. I then had to learn that in acting. So I had some sitcom roles and I reoccurred on some good shows. And then I had, through pilot season, I had tested for shows that people might have heard of, like Arrested Development, the Office, and really close calls. And then because of that, because of not getting those, I think I was like, I need something to prove that I'm an actor. So I accepted a role in a show that was, didn't have a lot of opportunities for me to have opportunities to act. And so as a result of me kind of grabbing peasement for my ego, I ended up being on a show where, you know, I spent two years going, Can I have more things to do? Not lines, but can I have more things to do? And they were like, no, it was always that size part. So, that's a good example of me really messing up.

Who do you think was more influential in your life growing up, mom or dad?

I think that the compassion of my mother was, 'cause she was somebody that I knew loved me no matter what. So that's something that was huge. I think that also she was somebody, I had all these older siblings that, and my brother right above me was better at football. He was smarter. He was better at everything.

He did everything.

Yeah.

And my mom did say something that you're, like, he could whistle before me. He could do all these things. It sounds stupid, but the boy in you remembers stuff like that. And my mom said, you know, there's something that you're good at. You're probably better than Joat. And I remember that that wasn't her betraying Joat. It was something where I was always kind of second fiddle. 'Cause he's, by the way, in my family, I'm considered third funniest. Really? Yes. So it's like hearing that I think was important, but I also think that my father had this work ethic. I don't, you know, like this is my takeaway from it, but, you know, on Saturdays and Sundays, kids used to go and do stuff, but my dad would be like, no, we're doing yard work. and then he would reward us with McDonald's. And we thought it was a good deal. So we would work for like six hours and he'd be like, I'm gonna take you to McDonald's. That works out. And I think his work ethic and I think also, you know, he was also somebody that, you know, it's complex. You know, it's like the father-son relationship is complex. But I also think that I'm a combination of all my siblings too. And seeing them pursue things or them struggle with things was, I think it was very beneficial to have that perspective. But also, I don't know, you know, I wish, I feel very lucky. You know, there's, I have five kids and there's times when, you know, I have a 15 year old who's she's very into music. And there's part of me that, remember like in Dead Poets Society, there was the dad who was very discouraging of the son.

Actor, yeah. Yeah.

And it, you know, but the entertainment industry is so random. I mean, they're very talented people that can't get arrested. And many of them are my friends. And, and so like my joke is like, you know, that mean dad in Dead Poets Society, he might have been right. Because it is so, and there is something about the entertainment industry that is kind of unnecessarily cruel. I mean, life is cruel. But as a parent, you don't want your child to kind of, but would.

You have wanted your dad to say, after three years, stop this comedy thing. Go back to your finance job.

Well, I actually think that it was really beneficial that I did come from a family that my pursuit of this was relatively insane.

I mean, they were like, what are you doing?

They were like, you know, Jimmy, he's a little crazy. You know what I mean?

They're like, Once a week is a hobby.

His mother died and now he's doing this thing, you know, and he's doing standup, but he doesn't make a living doing it. like there's a practicality, especially in the 90s, right?

Yeah.

Where this was.

Yes. And so there's this practicality of, I remember my brother-in-law at one point, he goes, so you go out and you do standup every night. And when you do get paid, you get how much? And I go, eight bucks. And he would be like, why would you do that? And I go, because I enjoy it. And he goes, why don't you get more than eight bucks? And I'm like, that's what they pay. And in fact, I don't really care about the money. You know, I'll go around New York City doing spots and the stage time is payment. I mean, that's not to say that I don't enjoy it.

You want the money? Yeah, yeah. You want the money now. You got five kids to feed.

I got five kids.

And you've been doing it for 30 years.

I want to take a moment from this episode with Jim and talk about policy genius. Now, Halloween is on the way, which means it's time to break out the rubber spiders, the fake cobwebs, and the Jack-O-Lanterns. I'm all about that candy corn life. But if you've got a family, you might be dealing with something a little scarier right now, and that's shopping for life insurance. If the idea of looking for life insurance intimidates you, try policygenius.com Now, PolicyGenius is the easy way to shop for life insurance online. In minutes, you can compare quotes from top insurers to find your best price. Once you apply, the PolicyGenius team will handle all the paperwork and red tape. And PolicyGenius doesn't just make life insurance easy, they can also help you find the right home insurance, auto insurance, and disability insurance. All important things that I have. So this October, take the scariness out of buying life insurance with PolicyGenius. Go to policygenius.com, get your quotes and apply in minutes. You can do the whole thing on your phone right now. So check it out right now, policygenius.com, the easy way to compare and buy life insurance. And now let's get back into this episode with Jim.

I think I read on Forbes, I don't know if this was a few months ago, that you're one of the top three Highest-grossing comedians? Is that touring comedians or comedians in general?

I think it's touring comedians, but it's also, you know, the Forbes thing is like, is it an exact science?

Right.

No, but it is... Let's just say you're number one. No, no, no. I'm saying that, like... It's one of those things where, you know, there's all these calculations, right? And the entertainment industry is the perception business. It is. you know, I'm a pudgy balding pale guy. And so, and I talk about horses for 10 minutes in my special. So there's not something sexy. So like, yeah, I'm like, all right, you know, do I, you know, do I want to get the phone calls from every organization because they saw that forms list? No, but I also, you know, I need some producers to know, that I have some success. Does that make sense?

Absolutely. Yeah, I get it. The thing that I loved about what I read there and who knows what's true or not is that you had this opportunity to take a Netflix deal and you decided not to.

Yeah.

And you went the Amazon Prime route plus just your own distribution. Yeah. And you decided to bet on yourself, which I think is really cool because Louis CK did that.

Yeah.

Was that five, six years ago, seven years ago or something.

Yeah.

And it seems like you're trying to do this, you're trying to kind of reinvent that model.

Yeah, there is something about stand-up has changed so much just during the course of my career. I mean, Seinfeld started in the 70s. But how comedy is consumed or has changed dramatically. Like, and I have a belief that it changes every five years. So in 2006, when Beyond the Pale aired on Comedy Central. That was a time when every dorm room had a TV and cable, and the TV was on Comedy Central. When I went to college, there was maybe a TV in the lobby, but I don't even know if you had cable in colleges. This was in the 1800s. No, but like there was... And then it shifted, and Netflix was this enormous factor. And there's different things, like even when I released Noble Ape on multiple platforms, that was something, because I have right now five specials on Netflix. And so there is a balance of going different places and expanding your audience. And Some of it is you also want people to see it. So there was, I was also hearing from people like, I don't have Netflix. Why can't I see this? And so then that's why I did the distribution model where it went everywhere at the same time, because there are a lot of people that watch things on demand. And, you know, some of these things I experience and some of them I learn that, you know, like, I have young kids, so I buy everything on iTunes, but a lot of people are like, I'll watch a movie once, but when you have a kid, you might as well buy it, because they're gonna watch it 10 times. But the Amazon Prime thing was an interesting idea. And in Netflix defense, they've got five specials. In some ways, they don't need another one. But there is also looking at these streaming services in If we had a conversation six months from today, Disney's gonna be in the game, HBO Max is gonna be in the game, there's gonna be, Apple's gonna be in the game. It's gonna shift. I don't know, people are always asking, is it gonna end with three? Is it gonna end with five? But what's fascinating is when I started Stand Up, the only place you could see it was on late night shows. or on Ha! TV, which was Comedy Central, or MTV had a show. You know what I mean?

Did HBO do comedy specials then?

They did. They did. HBO was obviously very important.

But... You made it if you were on HBO. That was like the golden-- that was.

The most important thing. And that shifts also. So, you know, the Tonight Show shifted to the Letterman Show, and then HBO, retained this prestige. It still has incredible prestige, but Netflix has gained importance. But also, even when I went to Amazon Prime, I didn't know how many people had Amazon Prime. So my special on Amazon Prime, the feedback I received from the Amazon Prime special to my last Netflix special, I would say the Amazon Prime feedback was twice as much.

Wow.

And some of that is, if you look at Netflix, I describe it like this.

There's so much content there.

There's so much content. And so, if content, and it's good content, a lot of it's good, if comedy specials are like floaties in a swimming pool, the pool is covered with floaties. Yes. Whereas at Amazon Prime, I knew- A couple floaties. There'd be a couple. And so I knew that the balance of that was advantageous to me. 'Cause in the end, again, I just want people to see my comedy so that they'll come and see my show. Do you know what I mean?

-Entouraging, yeah.

-Yeah, and you know, it's fun also. There's, you have to kind of, it's all constructed on self-assignment, so you have to sit there and go, All right, I'm gonna, I'm gonna tell some stories, I'm gonna address something that's a little bit more taboo. And my friend, Ty Glass, sometimes he'll open for me and he's like, There you are, kind of like purifying your audience, because you'll say things that some people will be like, I'm out. And you're like, you, know what? It's good to kind of, you know...

Cleanse it all, yeah.

Yeah, it's good to cleanse it because, yeah, I am a clean comedian. I do love my wife and children, but I'm flawed. So I don't want people to think I'm a saint. You know what I mean?

Did 22-year-old Jimmy ever think that you'd get here now? No, I-- Making 30, whatever it said, 30 million a year or whatever with--.

Yeah, I-- no, I-- Top grossing movie star. My goal was to, you know, I wanted to be a writer on the Letterman Show. And, I mean, I had fantasies of acting. I had, you know, but, Even back then, the people that were touring, doing theaters, were only legends. It was only Carlin, and it was only Cosby that were touring. Seinfeld could have, but he was on a TV show at the time, so it was not like that was even an option. And I viewed touring, going to comedy clubs, I was like, I don't know if I want to do that. But, It's also something that I really enjoy. By the way, that segue into headlining, doing smaller sets and then doing an hour set, that's pretty terrifying. 'Cause you fall on your face.

You got another 45 minutes to go.

You're like, you fall on your face hard. And so there is something about.

The.

Bravery and the comfort It's the balance of comfort and being brave. So, I remember being at the DC Improv and they were nice enough to let me headline, and I pretty much bombed.

Really? How long was the set?

It was probably 45 minutes. I know.

What do you do after 10 minutes when you're like, wow, I'm not getting anything here. Quickies.

Some of it was, you know, it was okay, but you're the headliner. But you're the headliner. you're like the main course. And, you know, I guess I felt bad. There was this guy who probably John X was his name. His last name is like a Greek name that starts with X, but he went by John X. And he had kind of stuck out his neck and say, we should headline Jim Gaffigan. And I was more worried about getting him in trouble. Oh, man. So.

But doesn't every great anyone have to go through extreme embarrassment? over and over again in order to get through the other side.

I think, yeah, there's, there's, like, comedians.

Actors, public speakers, whatever it may be.

Everything. Yeah. I mean, you know, it's like, you have to, you have to, to fail. And I think that's an advantage of having children, is you see them going to school for the first day, and they're, like, a combination of excitement and terrified. or they're playing soccer on a team and they kick the ball the wrong way. It's like, as adults, we kind of navigate this world by, like, all right, I'm not doing that again. But as kids, they don't have the benefit of experience. And so seeing my children bravely do things, I mean, it's, it's, It's brutal. But it's, that does provide some of the bravery to go on stage and even if it's, you know, do a joke that falls flat or gets misinterpreted and, you know, it's like, you know, you're, you're, you know, you're reminded through your children that you have to do that.

You have to, constantly. Do you ever feel you got five kids and do you ever feel, and you're touring how many days a year?

On average. Like two weekends a month.

Two weekends a month, okay. Do you ever feel, that's not that bad then.

I thought you were gone a lot longer. Yeah, it's, you know, if you looked at my calendar, it looks like I'm gone every day. But, you know, and then there'll be a week where I'll be in like Europe, but then my family will meet me. Got it. You know what I mean? So it's all constructed on not being away too long.

Too long. Have you been able to balance that pretty well?

It's, you know, it's something I learn and then relearn.

Yeah.

And then relearn. So hopefully the, you know, when I'm in the hospital bed, I don't go, oh no, I did it wrong. But it is a constant balance.

I think there's a balance between like being that I'm not a father yet.

Yeah.

But my girlfriend says she wants to have five kids so I can see myself where you're at. I can see the balance between like being the example for your kids and saying, I'm going after the thing that I love.

Yeah.

And I want you to be able to do that and having that example, but also being there for them.

Yeah.

And spending quality time.

Yeah, it is a balance. And there is, being a parent is terrifying because Khalil Gibran, you know, like these children are on loan. You don't want to mess up and you know you're going to fail. So there is this, and I waiver in between letting them find their own path and also my dad, like being kind of a, a bastard. Not necessarily a bastard, but like, no, you can't do that. Like making sure that my children here know, you know, I want them to like me.

Right.

But I also, my responsibility is to make sure that they're not douchebags.

Right.

Right? Isn't that the bigger task?

It's true, being a good human being.

Yeah.

And your wife-- I'm also lucky, 'cause my wife is an amazing partner. Yeah.

But a couple years ago, she had a health scare, right?

Yeah.

She had a brain surgery.

She had a brain tumor, a tumor the size of a pear that was right on her brain stem. That must have been scary. Beyond scary, absolutely terrifying. And then it was a level of terror that you can't kind of articulate. And there's, you know, there's also, I think humans having toured with Nova Spire, where I discuss a lot of this, it became very apparent that we all have this experience of a loved one, whether it's a grandparent or, God forbid, a child going through this life or death kind of struggle. But I think that humans, we kind of shut it off because we can't live in that reality. We can't live in the reality that we're all gonna die and the people we love are gonna die. And what was terrifying was also that, you know, initially it was a brain tumor on, you know, these important cranial nerves that, you know, cover swallowing and- Wow. I couldn't swallow for a while. She couldn't swallow, she couldn't eat anything for two months. She couldn't drink water. And she was living with a guy who's a glutton. And so, but it was like, there was the brain tumor, And then there was a moment, so the brain tumor was removed, and my wife is such--.

Size of a pear.

Size of a pear. That's crazy. You know, like where the surgeon was like, I'm not sure how you're walking around right now. And so they removed that. There was, 'cause I'm also, I think stand-up comedy, you learn how to read people, not perfectly, but you can read people, you can see kind of, fear and facial expressions or kind of like vocal inflections that would communicate that they're uncomfortable. And I was always trying to read this brain surgeon and who, by the way, that's an impossible job. Being a doctor is just insane. And so I'm- what are the chances?

What's the recovery time? I don't know, 40% success rate.

Well, that's it's like- and they have to be this- They have to, I don't think people realize, I mean, I'm sure people do, but like, I was shocked to realize how they have to navigate expectations because they have to temper everything. I'm very confident, you know, like their words are so selective, but there was reading this brain surgeon, because after she got, after they removed the brain tumor, then she got pneumonia. And that's when I saw the fear in his eyes. And I remember just the flash of fear of his eyes where this brilliant, confident, compassionate man had fear in his eyes. And I was like, and I was very much resigned to the fact. I'm like, well, okay, you know, I've got to put my children first. It's kind of had a good run. Wow. You know, you're already going there. I was already kind of like, all right, this is.

Tori's done.

Because I was, I always had the. belief that I was lucky enough to find an occupation that I loved, that somehow the universe or God was like, you can have what you, you can do what you love or you can have a family. Like in my 30s, I was like, I get to do what I like, you know? I don't have control over this. So I got both of them. And so in that moment, I kind of had this belief of like, okay, you got to do what you like. Now you have to take care of these five children.

You got a 25-year good run at it.

Yes.

You lived your childhood dream. You inspired people. You made people laugh.

But now you are going to shift gears. And so there was this reality. And of course, my wife is such a tank that, you know, she pulled through even when I could see in that surgeon's eyes that he was not confident.

5-10%.

Yeah, I think, you know, I don't know, but like, it's like I had been looking at this guy's eyes for the entire time period, which was the only thing that we did over those five or six days. And then she got out of the pneumonia and she couldn't eat or drink. And so you're dealing with the stuff.

With an IV, probably getting fluids.

Unbelievable. And she couldn't talk and you know, my wife loves to talk.

So you were like, this is actually kind of nice.

You could make a joke for a second. Yeah, I love, no, that was totally the joke. But she, you know, it's like we were very lucky, you know, and she's a very spiritual person and I think she found great strength in that.

And what did that experience give you?

Oh, you know, that experience gave me a much more positive view of human beings, the support from not only her family, which was amazing, but and our, you know, the community of friends and parents of my children's friends, which was amazing. or our church that we go to, people step up, you're like, oh, this is why people have these things, these support groups. But generally, the consensus on social media, because my wife got out of this and she wanted to communicate to people that you can live through this because when we just, when she discovered she had a brain tumor the size of a pear, the first thing she did was go to Google and like, who had a tumor in their cranial nerves that is fine and she couldn't find anyone. So once she got through, she wanted to make sure that information was out there.

She's got a book coming out, too.

Yeah, she has a book coming out.

This month or next month.

Yeah, October 1st. And so I was relatively reluctant You know, it's strange. We live in this voyeuristic, exhibitionist culture, and there are certain things you want to share and certain things you, you know, do we want to share this? But obviously I was going to do whatever she wanted. And it was, you know, there was something about, you know, eventually I would do stand up on it, but like when the outpouring of support It's like human beings, there's a real good side to people and like the generosity is, you know, there isn't a boundary to it necessarily. I mean, I'll be in an airport and people will be like, how's your wife?

Wow.

So it's pretty cool. It's pretty cool. It's pretty cool. Like, I know we live in kind of a, an angry time, but human beings are all right.

They're pretty cool. Yeah.

Yeah.

When stuff is really going dark, it's like they want to be there.

Yeah.

That's powerful.

And did you feel like you became a better father and a better comedian with that experience?

Or- yeah, no, it was- I think.

She said the same.

And she kind of details it in the book. It was, so my wife is, I kind of refer to her as, I mean, she was the executive producer of this TV show that we wrote together, but she has, you know, become the executive producer of my life and my family's life. So what transpired there was I had to adopt, I had to switch the role from care receiver to caregiver. And I think I know I was terrified, and I'm sure she was like.

I don't know what this guy is gonna do this.

Do you know what I mean? And so being a caregiver is, it's a different role. It's a different role. And it's also, it's, I don't think people vocalize, it's brutal. It's brutal because you're not only the press secretary of this situation, but you're, you know, there's no real breaks. And by the way, the person that's going through this incredible recovery is got it worse, obviously. But I have a lot of, I gained a real empathy for people that that are in that caregiving role.

It's not easy.

It's a hard job. It's not easy. There's not, you know, there's not really, I mean, you're doing it all for the right reasons, but there's, you know, and by the way, you know, my wife, when she was going through some of this recovery, she didn't know I was there. Do you know what I mean? And so like there was a time at a anniversary, she was like, why weren't you at the hospital? And I'm like, I was there, sitting.

Next to you the whole time.

And so it's like, but that's not her fault. She was kind of in and out of consciousness. And there's also something really kind of special about getting that opportunity to show up for someone.

Yeah.

Do you know what I mean? So, like, there is something rather special about being the guy or the life partner you want to be. Do you know what I mean? Of course. Yeah. And I understand some people freak out and they're like, I gotta go.

Right.

But I wasn't that. That's just great.

That allowed you the opportunity to step up and show what you're made of. I've got a few questions left for you. I want to respect your time, but I have a couple questions more. This is about winning over a crowd. When you feel like, I'm curious what you feel like your keys would be if you could simplify it for people listening who maybe are public speakers or maybe are performers or actors who feel like they've lost the crowd. or they feel like they're about to go onto their stage, whatever their stage may be. What would you say are the kind of fundamental keys to winning over a crowd quickly when you step on stage or when you've lost it and you've got to get them back?

Well, there's a balance, right? Because even our society has shifted.

Yes.

In, I mean, I'm a big believer in being self-effacing. But there are also situations where that comes across as weakness. And that weakness can make, since we're animals, the weakness can be like encouraged disruption, right? But I would say that you can say anything if you lay the tracks for it.

What do you mean by that?

So, there's occasionally you'll see someone say something that is irreverent or kind of shocking, but if they had set it up in the right way or something bold, it's just like any good car salesman. Right.

The context.

It's the context. And so I think that for standup, You know, there is also, like, an authority thing where you have to go on stage and be in charge. People want someone in charge. They don't want someone-- I mean, I know I'm saying contradictory things.

Right, right, right. But it makes sense. Be in charge, but be self-deprecating.

But the vulnerability is what people empathize with. I mean, how do you get-- Richard Pryor is one of the best comedians to ever walk on this planet. And if you watch him, he is completely vulnerable the entire time, but he also has a sense of authority.

How do you do both?

I think some of it is, I think some of it is trial and error, and I think some of it's preparation, too. I think if you're not prepared, that's a big problem, and that's. Like, you know, and I know that, like, there are people, like, I think Dave Chappelle can walk on any stage and crush.

Just by looking at people.

You know what? That's good. But, you know, that's not everyone. Like, I can't do that. Some of it is understanding the environment. It is measuring. It's like, do these people wanna be here? Do they all have things in common? Did they play golf all day? How do they view me? 'Cause if I go on stage in front of an audience that likes my comedy, that's a different task than going on stage in front of high school.

Students who don't know who you are.

That just look at me as like an old dude, right? And so maybe it's not vulnerability, it's self-awareness. And that self-awareness changes. So when I do international shows, I'm not this doe-eyed white guy. I'm an American.

Really?

I'm an American who, and granted there's often Americans in the audience, but so the task might be different there. It might be prove to us that you're not a dumb American. And some of that is, I personally love other cultures and I'm fascinated by different things like that. And so that can be achieved by doing research on that. country or city. And then, I don't know, it's ever, and by the way, these are the conversations that comedians have all the time. Really? And some people have an intangible ability to, and some of it's a sheer confidence. Like I think Seinfeld and Chris Rock.

Chris Rock is amazing.

Have a confidence that is people find inspiring, you know what I mean? And they're like, all right, yeah, let's see what he's got to say. Whereas someone like Jonathan Winters, it's a different thing, right? He's a self-contained kind of, but even if you look at Robin Williams stuff, it's very vulnerable. Like I think that overall, there's a bravery and a vulnerability. I know it's contradictory, but like if.

You look at George Carlin, Courage and vulnerable.

Like George Carlin, people love, what he says, but sometimes they didn't love it in that moment. Because I also think that there is, and this is, I've never talked to, I've talked to other comedians about this. I think there's an aftertaste to humor. And let me articulate that.

Later that night you think about it.

Yeah, and there's also, we all have that kind of nasty, bitchy friend who is, kind of like ripping into people and you kind of laugh along and it's entertaining. But you also, an hour later, you're like, you know, I, do you know what I mean? So there's an aftertaste. And so sometimes even like some anger, whether you agree with it or not, you're like, there's an aftertaste to it. Or even kind of guilty pleasures. We all have guilty pleasures. there is an aftertaste to it. So that was something I learned later on. It wasn't something like, I'm gonna institute this aftertaste theory. It's just something that, it's like, why do we love certain movies so much? I think, Shawshank Redemption.

So good.

There's an aftertaste there, right? And it is, some of it's Morgan Freeman, some of it's the story, some of it's It's just the whole shebang, right? It's the vulnerability of different characters. And so there is something about the aftertaste of it. It's always about food with me.

I love it.

This question is what I ask everyone towards the end of the show. It's called the Three Truths. So imagine it's your last day on Earth. Many years from now. You get to live as old as you want to be, but eventually you gotta go somewhere else. and you've achieved every dream that you set out in your mind. It's all been created, the shows, movies, whatever you build your own network, whatever it is you want to do, have ten more kids. Yeah, it's all there. You've created it, you've done it. But for whatever reason in this world, you've got to take all of your work with you. So all of your books and series and videos and content, it's all gone. So no one has access to your information anymore that you've created. But you get to leave behind three things you know to be true. about all the lessons you've learned in your life that you would then kind of give as your Bible these three truths to the world to have. What would you say are your three lessons that you would leave behind or what I like to call three truths?

Ooh, that's interesting. I think intellectually we all know this, but I think that in the end, I am a parent and in the end it's your children are, that's, you know, that's the end equation, right? When you're dying, there isn't someone from the Grammy nominating committee. Thanks for those four albums, you know? So that is something that I think people lose, we all lose sight of like that. And whether, you know, for me, it's my children, for some people, it's close friends or whatever. That's where you're gonna be measuring yourself, is that level of humanity.

I also-- what would you say about that then? What would your truth be around children or parenting?

If you have a child, that's the most, that's your only job. Everything else is kind of a hobby.

Okay.

Another truth is that you can't rely on other people to do things. Like there's a romantic notion, there's stories of Hollywood, someone being in a soda shop and, you know, someone being discovered. But the reality is, is not only do you have to do it yourself, but you have to find your own path.

And.

You have to assume that you're gonna have to do absolutely everything. You didn't like this whole studio or whatever, this podcast.

It was a lot.

It was you.

Yeah, it was all.

It wasn't someone coming in and going, Hey, you're an interesting guy. Here you go.

No one said that.

Right?

It's-- Don't give me anything, yeah. So I guess maybe there's like, there's no excuse for hard work, right?

Yeah, yeah.

You better love it. Do you know what I mean?

Mm-.

That's two.

Two. I would say that don't get caught up in other people's expectations. And that goes back to even the beginning of my story. Like I studied finance because I more or less listened to what I thought I should do. And then, you know, seeking things that I think society would, or the entertainment industry would value rather than what I wanted to do. And so other people's expectations Not only are they unwise, but they are dangerous. Like be very wary of other people's expectations. It's not a conspiracy, but they're not you.

They're not you. They don't know your whole context, your whole life.

And you have to keep asking yourself. And so there's a lot of people, I mean, I don't know, I can only speak for myself. There's a lot of times where I'm like, wait, I don't even want to do this. What am I doing?

Why did I say yes to this?

It'S like you're in shape, I'm not in shape. I have to decide that I want to be in shape. And I say that to my kids, they're in perfect shape, but I'm like, work hard in school, but don't do it for me. Do you know what I mean? And my mom actually told me that. It's like, don't do any of this for me. Because if you're doing it for someone else, you're gonna resent that person or you're not gonna do it. Yeah, like you have to do it for yourself.

It's interesting because there's kind of a contradiction there. You know, we should do things for ourselves, but we should also be doing things to support other people. Like you're doing things also to inspire your kids. You're not doing it for them, but you want to be a model. You want to be an example and things like that as well, right?

Yeah, and I think, yeah.

It's not because they want you to do it.

Right.

It's a strange kind of It's weird because it could slide into narcissism, right? You can be like, do it just for yourself.

Yeah, right.

Forget about these other people getting in your way. But it's like, yeah. And I think that's it's becoming the person that is, how often do people realize they're doing things for their parents? You know what I mean?

It takes them a while probably.

And or for society in the home.

What I love about you, Jim, is you have a very, you have so much depth to you. You have a lot of depth and your heart is so loving and powerful.

Oh, well, thanks.

For the first time meeting you and only seeing comedy stuff and then last night watching this new movie you have, American Dreamers, I realized that there is so much character to you.

Oh, thanks.

And I love the complexity that you bring to the movie and to life. You've had this so much experience that you can share with people now from childhood in the Midwest to your mom, to your wife, going through the challenges, to seeing the world and performing in front of millions of people. This role you play is not what I expected, but it was so like rewarding as well.

Oh, thanks.

Can you share us a little bit more about the movie? and how people can watch it and why they should watch it.

What I love about a good movie is that people will have different things that they take away from it. Good art just presents questions. It doesn't provide answers.

There's a lot of questions at the end.

Yeah, there's a lot of questions.

I was kind of like, I want another five minutes.

Well, it's also, I think, I play this ride-share driver who's on hard times and ends up driving around a drug dealer He makes some questionable moves, but what-- Unquestionable. But what I loved about this character, I mean, you have to like, you have to play characters, you don't have to love them, but you have to like them and you have to like be honest to their truths. I know that sounds kind of, but you have to be like, this guy's truth is this. And so therefore it makes perfect sense that he would do this. But this guy, like a lot of men, I mean, I generally think, like men, we have to learn to be civilized. We have to learn to kind of not respond emotionally. We have to learn, and I see it with my boys, and what Cam embodies is a lot of, he doesn't want to take accountability for things.

Oh my gosh.

Which I identify with.

Yeah.

I mean, I think everyone's guilty of it. And he is also someone who is blaming the things around him and blaming the people around him. And it's also sad, you know, because there's, there's plenty of work to do on yourself. I mean, like when you were talking about the, it's like you're an unfinished project, you know, but that's the truth. And, and what's so frustrating is we're going to learn these things. and then we're gonna have to learn them again.

Oh man, over and over.

It's like a torturous journey.

Every year.

Like how could I have to learn this lesson that I was so grateful that I learned six months ago? And I think that Cam, the character I play, 'cause I can come, I'm far from a saint, but I think that he also, puts things in compartments in his head. And I think I've done that where I'm like, you know what?

I don't- Justifying something.

Yeah, you justify, rationalize, and I think... You know, I think America does that. I think we do that. We like a romantic notion of a country of immigrants, but there's a lot of sins. And so, I think Cam kind of embodies that, and he He's well intended, I think, but it's like he's gotta do some-- he's gotta take some accountability.

It is crazy, man. I don't wanna give it away, but when you're just driving away with both of the backseat, I'm just like, what is going on here? How could you live with yourself knowing the things you've done? You've done all these things that are compromised.

But people do that.

But then you're lying to yourself, you're lying to people in the backs, you're, I don't know how, I think society.

I think we look at people that do horrible things and we think they're just those horrible things, but they were, a series of events went into it. Like I, I consider myself, Very fortunate. I've, you know, but we're all a couple bad decisions away from being in a real dark place.

One bad decision.

Right?

Yeah.

And, I don't know, it's pretty scary.

It's scary.

It's powerful movie.

And where can they get it at? It's out right now.

It's out now and it's in select cities, but it's on iTunes, it's on video on demand, But don't watch it with a kid. No, don't.

If you're a parent, don't watch it at night.

But watch it, I would suggest watching it with someone so that you could have a conversation because there are different, and I don't want to plant any seeds because there are different takeaways. Some people are like, it's commentary on capitalism. Some people are like, it's different things.

But I think it's your character really comes out. Your personal, character comes out in your heart and your complexity. So I really appreciate the work you put into that. And I know that was probably fun and challenging at the same time. Where can we follow you and find you on tour and be a part of you on social media?

I'm all over social media, and I'm always touring. I love doing stand-up I love coming up with new material, and that's I'm gonna do that until people stop coming.

Right.

So social media, they can follow you.

They can see tour dates on your website. Yes. It's justyourname.com They can get the movie right now. I'm telling you, watch this movie, it's pretty fascinating. I have one final question for you, and again, I wanna acknowledge you, Jim, for just your heart. I think I've met a lot of different comedians, and I feel like sometimes they're always on. And you really showed up today with your heart and just sharing your vulnerability. So I really acknowledge that and appreciate that. Final question is, what is your definition of greatness?

I think it's the greatness is a commitment to the journey. Like I think that LeBron James or Tom Brady, it's like that commitment, like I don't even know what they do. You hear rumors about, but you know, either of those guys. I think their greatness is constructed on incredible sacrifice and incredible commitment. So I think that greatness is, I think greatness is such a commitment. I think sometimes we put greatness on things, thinking that people are anointed with greatness, but it's earned. It's earned. And Not everyone, everyone should have their own definition of it, but like, you know, and I'm not a Patriots fan, but like, Tom Brady is undeniably great.

Yeah.

Even if he never wins another one, you know, he serves as an example of someone that whatever motivates him, it is pretty impressive. It's pretty inspiring. And LeBron's the same way. He's amazing. Yeah.

Very cool. Jim, thanks so much, man.

Thanks so much. Appreciate it.

Thank you.

There you have it, my friend. I hope you enjoyed this episode. Maybe not exactly what you thought. This wasn't a comedy hour special. We really dived into the more emotional matters of the heart in Jim's life and his family and his wife and everything that he's gone through. For me, that's the stuff I'd love to find out about. You can go watch one of his top five best-selling specials on Netflix or Amazon Prime right now. You can go see his show, but I wanted him to share the things that he probably doesn't share that much in a different perspective. So I hope you enjoyed this episode. A big thank you to our sponsors today, policy genius. Make sure to go to policygenius.com. you can compare quotes and apply in minutes to make sure you get scari-ness out of buying life insurance. Make sure to check it out, policygenius.com as it's the easiest way to compare and buy life insurance. Again, share this with one friend today. Text a friend@lewis-howes.com/857 or just copy and paste the podcast link on the Apple podcast or Spotify or wherever you're listening to this right now and text it to one friend you think this might help improve improve their life. You can be the hero and the champion in someone's life by just sharing a piece of valuable content to them that could lift their spirit, that could encourage them, that could help them grow and improve their life. And I wanna thank you again, like I did in the beginning, for showing up today to improve your life. You're a seeker, you're a dreamer, you're a conscious achiever, you're looking for the information that'll help you accelerate your life and not just stay stuck and not just stay in the same place you've been. but get you to the place you want to be. Close the gap from where you are to want to be. And that's why I want to say thank you. You are here for a reason. You have an incredible gift. And no matter what amount of self-doubt you might be facing right now, no matter how much adversity you feel like you're going through, no matter how much of a burden or weight is on your chest from your family or your business or your career or your life or your health, I'm telling you, possible to get out of it. You are doing the work right now and that's the way you're going to get out of it. Find peace in your heart knowing that you have the power to get through it and you will get through it if you continue to live in a grateful state, in a peaceful state, in a encouraging state towards other people. The more you encourage others, the more courage you bring in your heart. So the quickest way to to get out of your stress and anxiety is to be in service, is to give to others, is to lift others up, to share valuable insights, to inspire other people, to be kind. You can inspire through a hug, a smile, a high five, a congratulations. It doesn't have to look pretty. Just get out of your own self and be in service to someone else today. If you enjoyed this message, share it with one friend. Subscribe if this is your first time here. Be a part of this movement of greatness. We are on a mission to impact 100 million people every single week. So thank you for being here. Thank you for improving your life. Thank you for doing the work and inspiring me to continue to find people like Jim to bring you the greatest insights in the world. And if we bring it back to the beginning, Langston Hughes said, like a welcome summer rain. humor may suddenly cleanse and cool the Earth, the air, and you. Always remember to bring joy and humor in your life as well. The more stress and anxiety you have, bring some lightness with some humor. I love you so very much and you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.