887 The 5 Second Rule To Change Your Life with Mel Robbins

This is episode number 887 with International best-selling author Mel Robbins. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur.

And each week we bring you an.

Inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. You have the power to control your thoughts and your actions. Your thoughts don't have the power to control you. And I want you to let that sink in for a moment. Sometimes our thoughts can feel like they control us, but you have the opportunity at every moment to switch that. And we're going to talk about how to do that in this episode. I'm so excited. I got to see my good friend Mel Robbins recently. on the set of her talk show in New York City, the Mel Robbins Show. And it's incredible what she's built over the years. If you don't know who she is, she is the most booked female speaker in the world, international best-selling author and host of the daytime talk show, the Mel Robbins Show. She's the creator and host of three number one audiobooks on Audible and the co-founder and CEO of 143 Studios, a digital media company that produces content in partnership with Fortune 500 brands. And she broke self-publishing records with her massive hit, the Five Second Rule. And it was named the number one audiobook in the world and the fifth most read book of the year on Amazon. That's crazy numbers, guys. Insanity. And her social media platform inspires more than 60 million people every month. And her TEDx talk is one of the most popular of all time with more than 18 million views. She's just a genuine, warm, caring, loving human being. And I'm so excited to bring you this episode. I did this interview with her a while back and it's not on the current stream and I wanted to bring it back because it's so powerful and it's life changing. This will literally change your life. And in this interview we talk about why it's so important to control your thoughts versus your actions. Again, thoughts are everything. The knowledge-action gap that keeps many people from achieving their goals. We're talking about breaking down the five-second rule and how to use it in negotiations. The powerful way successful people continue moving forward, regardless of their feelings and challenges, and where true confidence comes from. This is gonna be so powerful for you at the end of the year, starting a new year and a new decade. Let's frickin' dive into this. I'm so pumped. And make sure to support Mel Robbins. Go follow her on social media. Tag a friend, text a friend to listen to this episode, lewishouse.com/887 and let's stay connected over on social media because this could literally change your life if you apply the information we're about to dive into. Again, without further ado, let's dive into this powerful transformational interview with the one and only Mel Robbins.

Mel Robbins, good to see you. Thank you so much for being here. Oh, can I look at my book?

Very excited. Oh my God. This is the first time I've had a Bill Belichick headset on. I feel like I'm gonna be calling plays, people.

Here we go. You are. Mel's got a book called the Five Second Rule. And it's out right now. It's about how to transform your life, work, and confidence with everyday courage. And used to be a-- are you still our CNN analyst?

Are you still-- I am. But I don't cover politics, so it has not been a busy year for me. I do more ethics and relationships and business. And so when there's breaking news that impacts human behavior or business, that's when they'll call me. Got it, okay. Now were you always an on-air personality.

Talent analyst, or what were you doing? No, I have had a crazy career.

Tell me about it. Crazy, okay. So I grew up in Western Michigan. I went east to college and law school, and the first job I got out of school was as a public defender in Manhattan. Okay. I did violent felony criminal defense work for the city of New York for four years and I would probably still be doing it except for the fact that my husband got into business school in Boston. And so we moved up to Boston and I was not actually licensed to practice in Massachusetts, so I went to work for a large law firm and almost immediately wanted to kill myself. Not like truly and we'll talk about the implications of the five-second rule and how beneficial it is not only for productivity and for confidence, but also for mental health stuff. But hated it. And luckily, this was 99 in Boston when the startup scene was exploding.

Right.

And you could sneeze and get a job. And I networked like crazy and ended up getting a job in a really cool technology company and spent four years doing tech.

Public defender, it's a tech company.

Yes.

And well, you know, one of the things about getting a law degree, and I'm not actually telling you to, because I think there's, unless you really wanna practice law, it's a motherload of debt. And there is a absolute glutton of attorneys out there, and the job market is really difficult. And the other thing they don't tell you about law school right now is that you may be an incredible attorney, But unless you know how to do business development, your career is not going to do what you want it to do. So you need to bring in business, right?

Yes. You need a network, you need to build relationships.

You can't just sit there and expect it to come to you, right? That was the old model.

Right.

That was the old model.

Now you got to go out and get clients. Correct. Correct. Cultivate them, get them on the phone. Even if you work for a large firm. Yeah. Because you're not, if you're on the partner track, you're actually not of value unless you're generating income. And so they don't tell you that in law school. But so anyway, the law degree though, and because it's a degree about learning how to think and learning about how to take mountains of complex information, and distill it down into one key takeaway into the most important elements of something, that's what law school trains you to do. And so what's fascinating is that when you look at my career, whether it was being in high tech or it was then going on to do a bunch of executive coaching, launching and selling companies, and then having a syndicated radio show, being on CNN, and what I do now as an author, as a speaker, as somebody like you that is out helping people figure out how to launch businesses and change your life, it's about taking all of the incredible information that's out in the world and distilling it down into the key takeaways that make sense and that are also actionable. And so interestingly, when I look back on my career, even though I've made all these career changes, There are still fundamental skills that I developed early on that are the reason why I've become very successful in these other arenas. And that's one other thing to remember is that the cool thing about the world today, and you talk about this too, is that all the information that you need is right at your fingertips. How all you need to do is watch the show and you will get the secrets to creating the life that you want and being able to make that pivot so that you can let your passion direct you into a business that really helps you create the life that you want. So the information is there, the guidance is there. But the thing that's so difficult for most of us is how when you're alone and you turn off this show, do you push through the excuses, the habits, the fears, and the actual physical constraints that you have? in your life right now so that you can make the pivot. And so I often say that I am not a what speaker or a why speaker. I'm a how. And that there's already incredible information about what you can do and why you should do it. And I find that the place that I get stuck is, okay, well, that's great. And I do a lot of thinking, but how do I get out of here and make it happen?

Our thoughts are our biggest killers of our dreams.

Totally.

They're the biggest killers or our biggest cheerleaders. And if we don't know how to really, I guess, I don't know, not manipulate them, but to really hone in on them, then we can have a messed up life. And I've gone through many years of self-destruction growing up just because I didn't know how to manage the thoughts. I didn't know how to. I was never educated on it, really, on how to. How to not control it, but I don't know. What is it?

What is it?

What is it? Yeah, not control it, but what is.

The word I'm looking for? Well, see, I talk about it this way. So I like to simplify things because it makes it easier for me. I'm almost 50 for crying out loud. There's only so much that you can remember when you get to be, you know, when he's 33, that's a whole different ball game. But I think about your brain as being in two modes. Two modes to your brain that you need to know about. There's autopilot. We've all experienced that. You know, you drive to work and get there and you're like, who drove the car? Oh my God. Like, I don't even remember driving the car here. Well, you did, Louis. You drove the car. But the, thing is, is that you were in the mode of your brain that's called autopilot. Well, what is autopilot? Autopilot is the interior part of your brain. You'll hear neuroscientists and psychologists talk about the basal ganglia. Very important thing to understand is that there's a part of your brain that its entire job is basically to execute your habits. Habits, big fancy word, means something very simple. Behaviors that you repeat without even thinking about it. When you pull your pants on in the morning, I guarantee you, you either put your left or your right leg in first, and you have to stop and think about which one it is, don't you? But not when you're putting your pants on.

Right, exactly.

Because that behavior is what researchers call a habit loop. It gets encoded as a closed loop system right here. Now, the problem for most of us is that half of the day, we're on autopilot. And that's not me making a guess. That's what researchers that study habits and study psychology say. That half of your day, you're basically kind of checked out and you're on autopilot. And when you're checked out and you're on autopilot, any behavior pattern that you repeat can take over. And guess what are behavior patterns that we repeat? Thinking patterns. So self-doubt, worry, procrastination, Overthinking, analysis paralysis, fear. Those are all thinking patterns that are habits. One of the most important things that I want people to understand is that you're actually not a worrier. You have a habit of worrying. Big difference. You're not a procrastinator. You have a habit of procrastinating. Big difference. And when you understand that any behavior pattern, whether it is a thinking pattern like you doubt yourself all the time, Or you get trapped upstairs noodling everything and you can never get started. Or whether it's a behavior pattern like you drink too much or you snap at your kids or you micromanage your team. Every one of those behavior patterns and thinking patterns can actually be interrupted and replaced using science. Now let's talk about the second part of the brain. Drive. That's this puppy right here. This is what you want. This is your prefrontal cortex. Drive is the mode where you're in charge of your thoughts, okay? It's where you are fully awake, you are present, and you are driving your thoughts and actions. When you're doing that, your prefrontal cortex is active. The prefrontal cortex is the part of the brain that you need in order to learn new behavior, in order to do something difficult, in order to do something uncertain, in order to do strategic thinking, So I'm gonna give you an example. So I'm a righty. If I were to try to write with my left hand, you know, like, Lewis is gonna torture me and tie my hand behind my back and make me like do this. I could do it. It would look like I was writing with my foot. And if Lewis came up to me and said, hey Mel, you want some bulletproof coffee? I'd be like, Lewis, I'm trying to concentrate. I can't do this. My prefrontal cortex would be El Fuego, because it is firing on all cylinders to communicate to my hand new behavior. So the thing that's cool about that is that you can use a simple trick. The moment you feel yourself hesitate, the moment you've got one of those moments where you know that you need to, this is that moment that Lewis talks to you about where you gotta step outside of your comfort zone and you've gotta lean into your passion and you've gotta really take some risks and you gotta feel the fear and you gotta do it anyway, that's the moment where you just woke up. and now you got a decision to make. Are you going to drift back into the habits or are you going to awaken your prefrontal cortex and drive forward and focus and do something new? And so the work that I've been doing and speaking about is all about the five second rule, which is a trick that I invented by mistake that helps you manually switch, no joke, your brain. It turns off and interrupts the part of the brain that is where all your habits and your behavior patterns are encoded, and it awakens your prefrontal cortex, which in five seconds flat allows your brain to help you change. And so anyway, I was rambling on and on, 'cause you went on this thing about how your patterns can be destructive and nobody teaches us, and that's absolutely right. And what I want everybody to get out of this conversation between us is that you cannot control how you feel. You cannot control what triggers you. And the fact that you may rise up with anger, you may rise up with self-doubt, you may have anxiety, fill your body, But you can always control what you think and how you behave. And we spend way too much time trying to focus on manipulating how we feel about things and not enough time practicing the skills of controlling your behavior and your thoughts.

Because if you can control your behavior and your thoughts, then the way you feel would be different.

100%. And a lot of us are sitting around waiting to feel ready waiting to feel courageous, waiting to feel confident, waiting for the right time. And that's not ever coming, ever, ever. You're not gonna change your life up here. You only change it through action. So to me, you know, I did this interview with your friend Tom, and we talked about how motivation is garbage and this somebody memed it and went crazy. And so the point that I was trying to make is this, is that, yeah, motivation is great if you feel motivated, but it's garbage and it's a losing bet to wait to feel ready. Because your body's not designed that way and neither is your brain. And so I want everybody to understand that first of all, you can't control the things that trigger you and the fact that you're gonna feel afraid and you're gonna feel doubt and you're gonna feel uncertain, but you can always interrupt that feeling and take control in the moment and actually shift what you're thinking and shift how you behave.

Yeah. and the bigger the dream, the more fear you're gonna have. Even if you feel like you've conquered the fear of something, in order to grow, you've gotta take on some new challenge. And there's gonna be uncertainty, there's gonna be some stress, or there's gonna be some worry, or there's gonna be some ego checking, and there's gonna be some identity crisis. So there's always gonna be this fear that could arise. Always. Always. I mean, do you feel like once you've mastered this, that you have no more fear?

Me? Yeah. No, the fear still comes, but I have 100% control of what I think and do. So one of the things that is important for me to put on the table is that a lot of times, you know, people look at your, where you are now. And so they'll see me on television or they'll see that TED Talk or maybe you'll be in an audience of 20,000 people in the American Airlines Center and I'm on stage and you're like, wow, that chick must have just been more incompetent. I hate her. The fact is, That's not at all how I was. When I was 19, I started having crazy panic attacks. And they got so bad that I took medication and medication was a godsend for me. I took Zoloft for two decades. When I had our first daughter who is now 17 years old, the postpartum depression was so bad that they put me on Ativan, which turns you into a zombie, and I could not be left alone with her. So when it comes to self-doubt and to how we can torture ourselves with our thoughts, boy have I lived that nightmare. And as I started to use the five second rule, which we're gonna get into, and everything about my life changed, because when people first learn the rule, what you're gonna learn, what you're gonna start doing is you're gonna start using the rule to push yourself to do things that are annoying. You're gonna push yourself to get up on time. You're gonna push yourself to work on your business plan. You're gonna push yourself to make calls that are scary. You're gonna push yourself to get to the gym. You're gonna push yourself to speak up more at work. You're gonna push yourself to put the booze down, behavioral, behavioral, behavioral, and then you're gonna start to actually use it to change the thinking patterns that are self-sabotaging. So I, four years ago, wondered as I started to see myself go from facing bankruptcy to building, you know, close to an eight-figure business. What happened for me is I started to say, okay, this is a really cool little trick. to bring out the most powerful side of you, but can I use this to actually cure myself of anxiety? And the answer is yes, you can. And four years ago, I went off Zoloft and I started using the five-second rule, which I'm going to explain in one second, to interrupt the patterns of worry and self-doubt, which, by the way, anxiety is nothing more than the habit of worrying, spiraling out of control. And body feelings triggering now the habit of obsessive worrying that turns into anxiety and then kind of escalates to panic. I started using the five second rule to interrupt my thoughts every time I would feel that kind of worry kick in. And because the prefrontal cortex is awakened when you use it, your mind is now ready to take on a totally different thought. It's a very different strategy than just trying to switch the channel on what you're thinking because you're actually inserting the step that nobody talks about, which is switching the gears in your mind so that your mind can actually take and believe the thinking.

Yeah.

Interesting.

Yeah. So the five second rule.

Wait, first off, when did you discover the five second rule?

Okay, so 2009.

This is when you first tried it or discovered it or?

Oh, it's a total horror show mistake. Okay. Yes.

Okay.

So 2009, I was unemployed and feeling.

Like- you- were unemployed?

How? Well, okay.

Too much charisma, too much passion.

Yeah, 'cause everything's working right now. That's why I'm not like this when things are not working. Ask my husband of 22 years. Well, what had happened is I had had all these career changes and I got into the media business again by mistake. I had a coaching business and Inc. Magazine was writing an article about coaches and they featured me in it and CNBC called.

Got it.

And that led to me doing some stuff with CNBC and I spent a year still coaching people and then doing some stuff for CNBC and then Fox called. And they were interested in having me host a television show. Now, you gotta understand, I'm from North Muskegon, Michigan. I mean, the media business, the LA, the closest thing I had ever seen to a celebrity, Louis, was the Muskegon Lumberjacks, the farm team.

Right. Right.

For the Pittsburgh Penguins.

Yeah, the LA team, or whatever.

Yeah, my dad was the hometown doc for the hockey team there.

Right, right, right.

So I thought-- the mayor was a celebrity. Wow! Oh, my life's about to change. I'm about to be a celebrity. Wow, we're gonna solve all this is amazing, you know? So I was originally going to be hosting a show for Fox where we were making over small businesses. Yeah, pretty cool, right? We show up, we like do extreme home makeover for the office, everybody's happy. We all know that doesn't solve business problems, but it makes for a nice television show. By the time I get to LA, they've changed the format. It's now called Someone's Gotta Go, and I'm gonna be firing people on national television from Real Jobs. Wow. Uh huh.

That sounds fun.

Horrible. Oh my gosh. Plus we haven't told the offices that this is what we're doing. Oh my gosh. So you show up in act one and you've got everybody all like this because they think they're gonna get new IKEA furniture and a paint job and this is gonna be the best thing in the world for their small business. Now meanwhile, I'm a fourth generation small business owner. So that's like my people. Grew up at a kitchen table with farmers and you know, my mom at a retail store and my other grandparents were bakers. And so when it comes to like the heart and soul and what's so important when you launch your own own business and how personal it is. I mean, this was like gut wrenching. So I show up, the first act, you kick out the owner of the company who then freaks out, then all the employees freak out. Act number two, we announce that somebody's getting fired and then that's the bad news. The good news is that I'm not picking, we're gonna have you vote somebody out. So it's Survivor in an office place. Oh my goodness. So that sucks. When I learn all this, I have a panic attack, even though I'm on Zoloft. And I call the guy that got me the gig and say, you,'ve got to get me out of this. Like, this is the worst thing that's ever happened to me. And he said, well, I'm sorry, but they've already cast the entire show and you're out there for five weeks and you don't have a choice. They're going to sue you. And I said, then fine, get me some Xanax, because I don't think I can get through this thing. Like, this is awful. Luckily, we taped two episodes and legal tabled it. But here was the problem. I was attached to the show. And I only got paid if the show was shooting. And being an entrepreneur, I also kind of put all my energy into this, shut down the coaching thing. Really thought that it also kind of negotiated a deal that was a sort of a back end deal thinking I'm a, you know, entrepreneur always thinking about, gotta have a piece of the action. Yeah, that was a dumb move. And I was in a contract for a year while they figured out what to do.

Mm. So you couldn't do another show?

Yeah.

So, you know, I just felt like I had made a huge mistake and I felt really embarrassed. And I didn't know at the age of 41 what I should be doing with my life. And while it's neat that I had jumped careers so many times, I started to feel like somebody that actually wasn't successful at all. Because I didn't have a career track. I had a bunch of jumps from one thing to another. Now looking back, it makes perfect sense. But but standing in the middle of the mess, it just felt like everything was caving in. Probably just like when you were sleeping on your couch, feeling injured and like everything I thought that was about to happen isn't happening now. Meanwhile, my husband had opened up a restaurant business. It had been his dream. He worked in high tech and came home one day after getting laid off and said, I'm never gonna get on a plane and do a PowerPoint presentation for a company. I don't care about her own. And I said, Great, what's your plan? And he said, I'm gonna open a pizza restaurant. And I looked at him. And I said, Was there a trust fund that was part of this marriage that I was unaware of? Because I'm not quite sure how we're going to get the money.

Did someone die? You got an insurance policy?

Yes. And he said, no. And I then said the most famous lines of our 22-year marriage, Louis. I looked at him and I said, Listen, buddy, inspiration is for strangers. You get your ass back to that job, and you pay the mortgage, and you forget this dream. You're not going to this. Wow. Well, because, Change is scary. Yeah. So we fought and he won. And the first one was a real home run. He opened a pizza store. Oh, he did, yeah. 40 seats right outside of Boston, Massachusetts. He and his best friend, and they won best of Boston. It was incredible. What do you do when everything- They made money though. They did on the first one. So what do you do when everything's working? Woo, let's go all chips in. Let's put in the home equity line. Let's put in the kids' college savings. Let's get friends and family. And because you're so excited, you think it's gonna work. So you go big, big, big. Well, the second one did not work at all. And it did not work at all so badly that when it was finally closed, it was close to an $800,000 loss. And it meant our entire home equity line, kids' college savings, everything went right down with it. That was right when I lost the Fox show. So I'm unemployed, the liens start hitting the house, the phone starts ringing all the time, and it's collections calls. so you unplug the phone.

That was the phone. That was me out.

Well, you just unplug the phone. I mean, that's how you deal with that.

But.

I remember two things from that period in my life that were really painful. And one was having to call the town and tell them that we could not afford the 175 bucks for our sixth grader to play soccer. So we needed to pull her out. And I remember there being times because I was so afraid to look at the checking account. that I would stand at the grocery store and items would scan and I could just feel that wave of anxiety rising, thinking, I don't think the check card's gonna go through. And so I would stand there. I always had an excuse and it was to look at the person and go, oh, that's strange. It just worked at the gas station.

Oh, my gosh.

Because what would have been more empowering is to probably say, oh, well, I guess I don't have the money for this. Let's take this, this and this and just kind of It's like the easiest thing to do is to tell the truth, but I was so filled with shame. So I started to develop this habit of hitting the snooze button. Because what would happen is the alarm would go off in the morning and the first thing I would think about is all the problems that we had and how awfully things had gone off the tracks.

You didn't want to deal with them.

No, and I also didn't know-- I didn't know I didn't think I could. And this goes back to the feelings. Like you think that you need to feel confident or courageous in order to get started. You don't. You actually just have to start and that's the riddle of life. That lying in bed hoping that you wake up some morning motivated to change, that's not the answer. You actually have to learn how to push yourself. You have to learn how to leverage the power of your decisions and you've got to learn how to take action when you don't feel like it. Because every morning when I woke up, I did not feel confident. I felt like a loser. I felt like the world's worst parent. I felt like I had failed at every single turn. I did not know if Chris and I could pull out of this spiral. I did not know if we were going to go bankrupt and lose the house and move from our community. I did not know if our marriage would survive. I knew I wanted it to. And see, this is the knowledge action gap. You can know what you want. You can know what you should be doing, but how do you make yourself do it when the feelings and the motivation isn't there, when all you got is fear. And so every night I would lie in bed and I would say to myself, all right, that's it, Mel. Tomorrow, it's the new you. Tomorrow, you're gonna wake up and be motivated, you're gonna get up, you're gonna exercise like everybody says you should, you're gonna meditate, you're gonna get those kids on the bus, you're gonna screw Fox, you're gonna look for a job, you're gonna cold call Cox Media, and you're gonna, you're gonna do auditions. Come on, girl, let's go, let's go, let's go, you're gonna take a cold shower, whoo, you know, here we go. And I meant it when I was saying it, maybe it was the alcohol that was talking, but then I would wake up and I didn't feel any of those things. So I would hit the snooze and I would hit the snooze. Now, why was I hitting the snooze when I knew it wasn't the right decision? I'm gonna tell you why. And this is something that I was blown away by when I discovered it. You don't make decisions with your goals. You don't make decisions with your prefrontal cortex. You don't make decisions with logic. Do you know how we make decisions? I didn't invent this. A neuroscientist by the name of Damasio, who does his research in Brazil, who gave an incredible TED Talk and wrote about this forever and ever and ever. We make decisions with feelings. 95% of our decisions are made by how you feel in the moment. And that is the problem. You need to take control of the moment and leverage the power of your decisions and make them up here. Because when I was lying in bed, I wasn't saying to myself, I should get up because that's gonna help me start my day right. I was saying, do I feel like getting up?

No, you don't.

No.

Do you feel like making that cold call? No, you don't. Do you feel like doing that third set of reps? No, you don't. Do you feel like having that hard conversation? No, you don't. Do you feel like ending this relationship? whether it's in business or in your life that is sucking you dry. No, you don't. We make decisions based on our feelings and that is robbing you of joy and opportunity. And it is blinding you from the fact that how you change your life is one five-second decision at a time, one push at a time. And if you accept the fact that you may never feel ready and you may never feel motivated and you may never feel confident, you may never feel courageous and that's okay, but you can still push yourself forward. What happens over time is as you start to see yourself becoming the person that takes action, that you start to see yourself becoming the kind of person that speaks even though your voice is shaking, you're the kind of person that has a bias toward moving instead of a bias toward thinking, guess what happens? You build the skill of confidence and courage. And so what happened for me is I was stuck, Louis. I mean, I was so stuck. I was on, I mean, we were heading straight for divorce. We were heading for bankruptcy. I knew I wanted to change things. And so one night I see this commercial. This is the stupidest story on the planet, but this is what happened. I see this commercial and, you know, again, I also was drinking too much. I mean, I probably had a couple of Manhattans in me. That's my drink. I'm from the Midwest, just like you. All right, little Manhattan there, little bourbon. And there was a rocket ship launching on a commercial.

Yeah.

And I had this instinct, this innovation, this disruptive idea, right? Oh, my God, Mel, that's the answer. Tomorrow morning, you're gonna launch your ass out of bed like a rocket ship. You're gonna move so fast, You can't even think about your problems.

Dumb, right?

Totally dumb. See, he's like, this is the dumbest idea I've ever heard. I cannot believe I have this chick on my podcast.

I understand it.

You gotta get moving first. Yes. That's the thing. You just gotta wake up at 6:00 a.m. or whenever it is and go into the gym. When you're in the gym, you're gonna.

Start moving the first weight and then you'll start moving the second weight. Actually, people use the five-second rule at.

The gym because you know how much.

Time people waste at the gym standing around thinking about the next thing? Probably 70% of the time.

5-4-3-2-1.

So the next morning, the alarm goes off and nothing had changed in my life. I woke up to the lean on the house, the fighting with Chris, the unemployment, the lack of confidence, the lack of courage, the whole thing. But I did something I had never done before. I went 5-4-3-2-1, just like NASA. I actually counted. And then I stood up and I was like, what the hell just happened?

Uh-huh.

What?

That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. The next morning I used it again, it worked. The next morning I used it again, it worked. And then I started to notice something and this is one of those things. So we have an 11 year old son who has dyslexia. And when they finally diagnosed him, it was as if, of course, it was as if, like, how could we have possibly missed this? Are we the worst parents in the world? I mean, the kid can barely write, he can't cut his food, he doesn't re, like, no wonder he doesn't do team sports. It was right under our nose. And what I'm about to tell you is right under everybody's nose. There's a five-second window between the instincts, the shoulds, the urges, the inner wisdom, the things that can change your life if you listen to it. You've got a five-second window from the moment you feel that instinct to move. And if you don't, your brain is actually designed to kill it. Five seconds is all you have. The second you hesitate, it's action and you feel yourself hesitating, that is a moment of huge power because what's happened is you've just started to pull back from something that you need to lean into. And if you count backwards 5-4-3-2-1, and this is the neuroscience behind why this stupid little trick works, counting is an action. Counting backwards requires focus. It's also not a habit for you yet. So when you feel yourself hesitate, You're triggering your mind that something's up. Like Lewis didn't hesitate when he pulled on his pants, he didn't hesitate when he's drinking his coffee, he didn't hesitate when he walked out the door to the gym, but now he's hesitating to make that call. Your mind now goes into a cognitive bias called the spotlight effect. It magnifies whatever it was that you hesitated doing. The moment. The moment, yeah. Like all of a sudden you're like, I don't feel like it, I don't know, maybe I'll do it later. And your mind is doing it 'cause your mind's trying to protect you. Hesitation signals a red flag to your mind that something's up. Just that small hesitation, it's a habit that we all have. Should you hesitate if you're getting a tattoo? Yes. Should you hesitate if you're gambling? Yes. Should you hesitate if you are signing a legal document? Yes. You need your prefrontal cortex for those things. You need to interrupt it, make a decision. Should you hesitate on making a phone call?

No.

Should you hesitate on speaking up in a meeting? No. Should you hesitate when you feel yourself starting to procrastinate and you know you got work that you should get done. No, you shouldn't hesitate at all. Should you hesitate in saying the thing that you really feel in your heart? No, you shouldn't. Should you hesitate and edit yourself when you're talking? No, you shouldn't. But we've all trained ourselves to. So it's actually this habit of hesitating. You start catching yourself. It's a huge moment of power because you have a decision to make and you got to make it in the next five seconds. Are you going to go on autopilot and get trapped in your mind? Or are you gonna 5-4-3-2-1 and awaken your prefrontal cortex and drive forward? So I started to use this rule as I noticed that every day all day long I had these moments of inner wisdom where I would know that I needed to pick up the phone and stop isolating myself. I would know that I needed to call a bunch of media companies and start auditioning for radio show hosting gigs. I knew that I should get out of bed on time. I knew I should stop myself before I snapped at Chris.

Right?

Self-monitor. I knew I should not feel let the frustration be the things that was driving me. And so I started to use the rule all day long. Whenever I felt this, I should do this, buy 4321 and I would make myself do it. And slowly, five seconds at a time, my entire life started to change. And my husband used it in his business and he and his business partner dove in. They went on to open seven more restaurants. I went on to launch and sell two businesses and get recruited by CNN and join their team. I had a syndicated radio show that ended up winning the Gracie Award, which is kind of the female media awards for the number one talk show in the country. And I never intended to tell anybody about the five-second rule. First of all, because it's stupid. I mean, come on, count backwards. That's the dumbest thing to me, though.

Anything that works works for me.

That's true.

I mean, I'll take any stupid thing.

That's true. And so I. But I also was like, how do you start talking about something like that?

Right?

Yeah. So I was asked to give a TED Talk, like, six years ago, and Ted six years ago, not the brand that it was today. They weren't even putting the talks online yet. Really?

Yeah.

The TEDx talks are not online yet. And so that was the first speech I'd ever given in my life. If you want to see what somebody looks like having a panic attack for 21 minutes straight, watch that speech. I was backstage and it was like one PhD after another going out there. I'm like, what scientist? The hell have I gotten myself into? This is the dumbest thing. And so at the very end, I wasn't even planning on talking about it. I say, oh, by the way, there's this thing I do. That's it. I don't even explain it. And you know why I didn't explain it, Louis? I didn't know why it worked.

So you didn't have the science or the research.

You were just like, Zero.

Zero.

And then something crazy happened. They put that talk online a year later and people started to write, We've heard from more than 100,000 people in 90 countries that have written to us, that are using the rule in ways big and small to change their lives, to change their marriages, to change their thinking patterns, to grow their businesses. We know of 11 people that have stopped themselves from killing themselves. In the moment, there's a gentleman that we talk about in the book, and you can see his social media posts in London. He was a veteran and he was suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder and he boarded a ferry with the intention of jumping overboard. And he got to the railing and he was standing there and his inner wisdom kicked in. And this is another thing I want everybody watching to understand. I don't care what you're facing or how low you get. Your inner wisdom is always there. It is. And the thing is, is that we often don't listen to it. And so he's standing there intending to kill himself and that inner wisdom kicks in and he remembers the five second rule and he goes 5-4-3-2-1 and he turns and physically moves away from the railing and finds the first person working on the ferry and tells him that he's suicidal. Saved his life.

Wow.

He saved his life because he listened to the inner wisdom. And this is the other thing I love about this rule. It's not something to think about. It's a tool to use. so the part of the problem with a lot of the advice that I've found for me personally is that a lot of advice is all about kind of doing mental battle. And if I go upstairs, I'm behind enemy lines and I tend to get hijacked.

Right.

So I love this tool because 5-4-3-2-1 interrupts those patterns. It actually prompts the part of the brain that I need in order to change, and it makes changing easier. because I've now got my mind working for me instead of against me, and it gets me out of my head. And so, I'm super excited to share this rule with people because I now know not only that it's working, just not for me, it's working for people around the world. And in the book, it took me three years to write it. It's all the science behind the rule. It's got more than 150 social media posts in it, so you see stories from around the world of people using it to end procrastination, to build confidence, to deepen their relationships, to launch businesses, to explode the sales. Why does it help with sales? I'll tell you why. Because you can't sell by thinking. Selling is about action. We have groups from companies around the world, sales teams that put 5-4-3-2-1 up on the wall. I'm sure they hate me.

Let's go.

Yes, because cold calling, it's a momentum thing. If you stop and think, the phone is not getting, the dialing is not happening when you're thinking.

If you're thinking about all those nos you've been getting, you're not gonna wanna.

Do it again, 'cause it doesn't feel good. Yes, and if you're in the middle of a negotiation or you're in the middle of a really difficult conversation, and again, remember what we said earlier, you cannot control your feelings that rise up, but you can always control how you think and what you do. So if you're in the middle of a difficult conversation and you feel those feelings come up that normally trigger you to start editing yourself, or to censor yourself or to silence yourself or to think sabotaging thoughts in like a business negotiation. 5-4-3-2-1, awaken the prefrontal cortex, get back in the game.

How has this rule helped you the most in what area of your life with your marriage, your business, and being more productive in not having to, you know, take drugs when you're worried so much or on stage, what's the area where you're like, wow, this has really had the biggest impact? And I'm sure all of it, but...

Well, the most important thing in my life is my marriage. So my relationship with Chris is like the thing that brings me the greatest joy. I mean, I'll just start crying thinking about it. And... How many years have you been married? 20 years. We've been together for 22 years. Three kids. 17, 16, 11. It has given me mastery over myself. Like, I get so choked up just thinking about this. Like, I used to feel out of control. And this rule allows me to be the best version of me and to interrupt, like, all the garbage that can trigger you to behave in a way that's inconsistent with your values and your dreams. And so that has been the single greatest gift.

That.

And also, you know, I think the other thing that's super cool is that it is a tool that certainly prompts you to act, but it is also a tool that helps you tune in to your inner wisdom. Like you're not only gonna start waking up, you'll be so in tune with those signals that come from your instincts, not emotional, not instinct, like instinctual that that you get a direct line to your inner voice. You get a direct line. You know, all these people, one of the things that's always struck me. So if you list all the people that you admire, right? Yeah, Richard Branson, Oprah Winfrey, Bill Gates, like everybody's got kind of this, yeah, well, whatever. Louis, for sure. If you list all those people, Jay-Z, Beyoncé, like everybody. Everybody that you admire is doing the exact same thing. They actually listen to their inner wisdom. They have figured out how to tune out the critic up here and trust the instincts. And, you know, I have this saying about confidence that I've only recently kind of stumbled into as I've been digging into more research around the science of confidence and the skill of confidence. Because a lot of people think that confidence is a personality trait. It's not. It's actually a skill that you build through action. And a lot of people think confidence is a state of belief. It can be, but that's not where it begins. And so I say that confidence is the willingness to try. That's all that it is. Knowing that you may succeed or survive, but you'll still try. And to me, all those people that we admire most, that's what they're doing. They have the ability to tune into those instincts that are true for them. Because the fact is there's only one you. That's it. And you matter because there's only one you and there's only ever gonna be one you. And your instincts and your experiences and your inner wisdom is a gift to the world. And every time that you tune it out because of the habit of hesitating or the habit of self-doubt or the habit of worrying or the habit of overthinking, you are robbing the world of that gift that you have to give to everybody. And you can use this simple, stupid, silly tool to train yourself to not only hear it, but also to develop the skill of courage to act on it.

Powerful. And is there any area of your life where you feel like you lack courage still?

You know, I'll admit it's kind of easy. I think we all kind of go through those moments where you feel like you're behind. and I think social media is both an incredible tool and it can also be one of those triggers that makes you feel like, Look at how many followers this guy has. And like, I'm like, I'm like so tiny compared to this guy right here. Like it's easy to use technology and social media, not for inspiration, but actually as a way to bash yourself that you're not not doing what other people are doing.

-Compassion and or whatever.

-Yes, and so I think that I use the rule a lot for patience. I notice that my insecurity rises up because right now, you know, look, I did a ridiculous number of speeches last year. I travel way too much. I don't want my life to look like that. It's a champagne problem, I get it. But I also have three kids in a marriage that I love, and I really feel depleted when I'm not with them. And so I'm practicing patience as I make an intentional divit in the kind of business that I'm running so that I have more of a life that I want as well. So that's one area. I don't feel insecure as much as, you know, you know the term deliberate practice, right? And you know the five hour rule. Where is that from the talent code? Well, the deliberate practice is actually a psychological principle. I think it was in a book called the Talent Code.

Oh yeah, okay.

Well, it's a psychological principle that, you.

Know, and you know the 10,000 hour rule.

So I mean, deliberate practice Yes. So deliberate practice is this idea that, yeah, you could do 10,000 hours at anything and become an expert at it, but the way to do it faster is to deliberate, to do deliberate practice, which means you're practicing with the intention of improving and there's a feedback loop. Yeah. So 3,000 hours as opposed to 10,000. Correct. Like, for example, if you wanna become an expert at guitar, learn scales. Don't just sit there for 10,000 hours and play the same song. If you learn scales, you get the finger dexterity and the muscle memory and the neural pathway development. Yes, I saw your guitar over there. I saw your guitar. You know, I always wanted to play guitar, but instead I forced my three children to learn. That's good. You just enjoy it and just watch them.

Exactly. My brother's, you know, the number one jazz violinist in the world. What?

Yeah.

And so I grew up watching the.

Most incredible, like- Now, is he built like you, too?

He used to be even, like, more jacked.

They used to call him the Incredible.

Hulk of violin, 'cause he was just like- Wow. Snap the thing in half. He would, he would slam like Jimi Hendrix style. But now he's leaned up a bunch actually. And so he's incredible. So I used to just be all awestruck by his gifts and it was unbelievable his skill. And so I learned guitar. I taught myself when I was 18 just 'cause I was like, I have to know something, you know, in terms of music. That's pretty cool. I can barely, you know, I'm like a hack, but, you know, at least.

I can do something. So yeah. So I'm kind of in this mode of improving myself and I'll give you one more thing that I'm working on. So I kind of think about my life and my work in three buckets. So we got this bucket here, we got this bucket, and we got this bucket. And so when you think about your business or you think about your passion or you think about work, I think about, okay, what do I need to do in terms of how much time and what actions do I need to take in order to develop the skills so that I can perform the work? So there's the deliberate practice that goes into practicing your skill and your mastery. Skill mastery. Yep. And your competency mastery.

Yep.

So that when it comes time to actually deliver the work, whether that's selling or standing on a stage writing a book or talking to people or selling real estate or whatever it is that may be your passion, deliver. This is the one I neglected last year. This bucket is what are you doing to personally develop yourself so that you are the most capable, fulfilled, and satisfied human being so that when you show up, to do your competency and your skills and the delivery that you as the human being are able to do that. And so I've been spending a lot more time consuming content, reading books, watching, you know, your incredible show and learning from other people. And I think that one of the traps that we entrepreneurs get into is we, I was feeling last year anyway, like I was on a treadmill and when I wasn't looking, somebody was coming by. and turning up the speed. And I was only in this alley.

And increasing the hills.

Yes, and if you're my age, you need like a diaper when somebody does that, and you're on a treadmill and a leash to keep you attached to it. Exactly.

So.

I've been focusing a lot on this, and it's been interesting, 'cause you and I were talking earlier too about you going to India and some of the stuff that you learned in terms of the different states to be in, and I use one, where I pay attention to where I'm feeling depleted versus where I'm energized. And here's the thing, you can be doing things that are really hard that energize you. You can be doing things that are really scary that energize you. The same is true with things that deplete you. There are things in your life that are really easy for you. There are people that you hang out with, by the way, that you've been hanging out with for years, but they deplete you. And so I've been starting to become more deliberate about how I distance myself from things that deplete me and how I spend more time and energy either doing or pushing myself to do those things that actually energize me. And this gets back to your message around passion, right? And that the art and the skill of building a life that is guided by the things that you're passionate about. so what is something that you're worried about or feeling insecure about or that like is the next big thing for you? I know you got a big book launch coming.

Yeah, that's one thing. I mean, I'm talking about a topic on masculinity. Actually, before- Where are you going? Are you gonna do something with my- I'll mention that. But here's the thing also I wanted to add, if this is, you know, mastering the skills and this is working on it or executing it. If we, you know, just to emphasize this, I was great at these two things as well my entire life. And I would achieve all my goals by executing the work on the skills. But I never had the fulfillment and I was always lacking the inner peace or the inner, I don't know, it was just never enough. And so I never filled this up. I always went back to mastering more skills and taking more action and mastering skills and just feel like it was never enough.

I hear you.

I never filled up this cup.

Right.

And once I started to, you know, about four years ago, opening up about a lot of the different traumas that I went through as a child and just like growing up, you know, being sexually abused by a man that I didn't know, my brother being in prison, you know, parents getting divorced like almost every kid, it was and being bullied, you know, just everything and being dyslexic and being in the bottom of my grade and all these things, growing up all through school, not being able to read and write. I never filled this up. And so I was just so driven to prove people wrong, learn the skills, master something and show people that they're wrong about me. And it was just never enough. It was just this endless cycle of never enough. No matter how big, how much money I made, it was never enough until I started to work on this cup and this bucket, and then everything shifted. So it's important that we do that as much as these do.

Yes, and I know sometimes that message falls flat. When you're committed to providing that kind of content for people and you can get focused on creating it and not actually, being somebody that is consuming enough of it. And so that's a huge change that I made funny enough on the male side. One of the biggest shifts that happened in my marriage with Chris is we had always been kind of even Steven partners, both with the parenting and with the finances and supporting one another except for that phase where I was a real bitch and I was like saying, you, cannot follow your dreams. That was all fear talking. One of the coolest things that's happened for us is that as my speaking career took off organically, And the world basically said, Lady, you need to teach the world this message and we don't care how much you're gonna kick and scream about it. We're gonna keep putting you on stages and the phone's gonna keep ringing and we need to know, but people need to know about this. My husband had always like you, youngest of three boys, dad was crazy successful, wasn't around because he traveled all the time. Chris had always had this thing in his mind that he hoped that they would grow the restaurant business, and he would have this big kind of, you know, liquidity event. And then he could take off for years and teach and be with our kids. And it just so turned out that it didn't work out that way in the restaurant business, but my career went like this. And so subsequently, we wouldn't be able to have the marriage or the family if Chris weren't running Point at Home.

Right.

And what's so- It's always gotta be there. Well, yeah, but what's so cool is for an entire year, he beat himself up about it.

-Uh huh.

And then he got sober. He went to a yoga intensive training. He's now a certified yoga instructor. He has a tractor. He runs the Booster Club for our high school sports. He created a triathlon in our town that's one of the biggest fundraisers for the town. The guy has like found himself and his strength and We've realized something in our marriage where he's just not driven in terms of the financial piece or the, you know, in the way that I am. And part of the conflict in our relationship for a long time was me putting those societal demands on him, him feeling the obligation. And so the thing that's also been really cool is that when you start to discover the courage to speak what's true for you, you. It's amazing how things shake out and fall into place, and it gives other people the courage to explore and figure out what's true for them. Because the fact is, he is a way better, way better parent than I am, especially for the ages that our kids are.

And.

It'S. And, you know, I have this saying where I feel like every phase of your life requires a different you and the the phase that I'm in right now and the kind of parent that I am will be totally different when our daughter heads off to college next year. Different phase of my life is gonna require a different phase of me. And so it's been so killer to see us step into this different phase where he is so happy and self-expressed. And, you know, I was reminded of it 'cause you talked about this project and I wanna hear more about it, about what you're working on, because he's now launching this tiny little retreat for guys. Wow. He's a big Knowles guy, so they're going off into the mountains and really exploring. Success is one thing. What does it actually mean to be satisfied with your life on your own terms and who you are? And so he's in this really cool inquiry about what does satisfaction with your life really look like when you take full responsibility for what truly matters to you?

Powerful. Yeah.

Yeah, fulfillment. I mean, we can all learn how to be successful. If we can't be fulfilled, then it's a failure, you know? Success of failure without fulfillment. So, yeah, I, you know, the book I'm talking about is, it's called the Mask of Masculinity, and it's tapping into really what it means to be a man and redefining the new man as opposed to, like, what society has put on us.

Like, beyond you guys wearing skinny jeans. Exactly.

Yes, exactly. Yes. So I'm, you know, I'm excited about it.

I guess I'm a little.

Has it been confronting?

Yeah.

I mean, because in every chapter, I break down myself and all the mistakes.

I've made as a man and, like, you know. Now, are you in a relationship? I am. Yeah.

You are?

How long have you been?

About three years. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. With a break in between, but. Yeah.

With the same person? Yes. Okay. So it's. It's been a lot of growth for me. Yeah. A lot of scary, you know, uncomfortable conversations, fears that. you know, 54321 right into it and it addressed it. And, you know, I'm still figuring it out. I don't have all the answers still. I think the reason I love doing this show is because I interview and connect with the most inspiring people in the world who I want to learn from and see, you know, how I can be better in the areas that they're strong in. So for me, it's a selfish reason doing this show to like take on so much great information and say, oh, how can I apply that to my life? And then how can I share that with the world?

You know, it's amazing. and, you know, one of the things that you said to me when we first started is, what do you want to get out of this? And I talked about how I, I just want to spread the idea that you can change your life in five seconds. And I want to spread the idea that you can't control how you feel, but you can always choose how you think and what you do. And one of the things that's so cool is that, you know, you and I are both outcome thinkers, so we think about the outcome that we want, and then we figure out, how am I going to get there? And when you go through life like that, But it gives you so much mastery over how you're going to behave because you're thinking about the things that you want to cause.

Yeah, it's powerful. I want to wrap it up with a few final questions because you got to leave here soon. This one is called the Three Truths. And if it was the last day for you many years from now and you've achieved everything you want.

Or if the plane crashes today.

You've achieved everything you want. It does, it does.

I mean, what am I gonna do?

Nothing you can do about it, it's right. And you've written all the books in the world that you want to, the courses, the speeches, everything you've done, you've spoken to the world. But for whatever reason, all you have is a pen and a piece of paper to write down three final truths, and they have nothing else to be reminded of you.

Are you trying to make me cry?

Do you do this to everyone?

No. Oh my God.

Every episode we talk about this. So all your books are erased, all your videos are gone, the TED Talks with hundreds of millions of views are gone. You have a piece of paper and a pen. Three final truths that you would share with the world. And this is all they have to remember you by. What would that be?

It would be that there's only one you and there will only ever be one you. So make sure that you listen to what your heart is saying and always do that. I would say you can change your life in five seconds. and the moment that you feel the instinct to act, count 5-4-3-2-1, then go.

Awesome. I love it. It's a great answer. I want to make sure everyone gets this book. This is Gonna Change youe Life, a five-second rule. Make sure to go grab it right now. Get it on Amazon, get it on Barnes & Noble, go to your local bookstore. It's everywhere. Go get it and send a message to Mel on Twitter or Instagram or Facebook. Is it the same handle everywhere?

Yeah, it's basically Mel Robbins. We use the hashtag five second rule. And one cool thing I want you to know, when you spend, it's 15 bucks right now on Amazon, and I'm so proud 'cause we're number one new release in four categories. Congrats, amazing. Thank you. And more importantly, it's changing lives around the world. We taped 31 crazy, awesome mentoring sessions. And on the back page of this book, there's a little URL right here where you get 'em for free. Awesome, cool. Yes, you get these videos that we shot at the house that are awesome about my Jedi mind tricks that I.

Use in parenting and relationships.

And overwhelm and all that stuff.

Mel Robbins.com/31sessions and check out MelRobbins.com to get more information. I'm excited. We'll link everything up in the show notes. Before I ask the final question, I want to acknowledge you for a moment, Mel, for your incredible gift and contribution to this world. You are a unique, loving inspiration and I'm dead serious. I didn't know who you were before about three weeks ago and I reached out to you and I was just like, I'm really curious about learning more about you and connecting with you. And I'm so glad that I did because you are making a massive impact. So I'm so grateful we've connected. I'm so glad my audience gets to watch this and hear about you and make sure you guys follow her because she's a game changer. So thank you for being here.

Yes, thank you. Thank you, Lewis.

I appreciate it.

All right, right back at you. So listen, I've been stalking you for more than two years. And so I feel like a little bit of a fan girl walking in to tape this. And the thing that really jumps out to me is just you are a guy that is all about abundance and passion. and the thing that is so rare in this world is people that open up their hearts and their influence to help everybody around you. And so I just love your heart. I love your soul, and I love the generosity of spirit that you have for the world. And it has been such a privilege and such a freaking fangirl moment to be here with Louis, oh my God, and wear the headset and get to share this. with your audience. I appreciate it. Truly. So anything I can do to help you, you put me on speed dial, brother.

I will. I will. I have one final question.

Please.

What's your definition of greatness?

Of greatness? Hearing your truth and speaking it no matter how your voice shakes.

Oh, this was so juicy, my friend. I hope you enjoyed this episode. If you did, let me me know over on social media. Tag me and tag Mel Robbins. Share this with a friend. Text your girlfriends, your guy friends, your kids, your parents. I don't care. Text someone you think this will inspire. LewisHowes.com/887 and tell them to share with you what they learned about this episode as well. You can also text me. Be a part of my texting community where I'm sending out micro messages, audio inspirational messages every week at 614-350-3960. You can text me right now the word podcast at 614-350-3960 to be a part of my weekly texting community where I'm sending out audio inspirational messages. If you want me to be your coach every week and inspire with thoughtful ideas and motivational tips, then text me right now 614-350-3960. Divo 3960. And a big thank you to our sponsor today, Sony's new WF-1000XM3s are truly wireless and so powerful on 24 hours of uninterrupted play time. So you can listen to music, audiobooks, and podcasts like the School of Greatness for as long as you want without worrying about dead air. Listen for yourself right now at lewishowes.com/Sony. these are really powerful. They're gonna be a great gift for yourself or for someone else. Go to lewishouse.com/Sony, check them out on Amazon now as well. You can experience unbeatable on-the-go sound that truly keeps you connected. Again, lewishouse.com/Sony. If you enjoyed this episode, it's your first time here, please leave us a review over on Apple Podcasts. We've got over 6,500 five star reviews. We'd love to get more of them because it helps us spread the message of inspiration to more people like yourself. Again, your thoughts don't control you. You control your thoughts. Don't allow the ideas in your head to rule your actions in your life. You can make a change. You can make a choice to shift those ideas and start thinking about something else. It may not seem easy in the moment when negative ideas continue to come up in your mind. But I'm telling you with practice, with the five second rule, with continual habits, you can break that shift in your thoughts and start thinking in a different way. And I'm telling you, my friend, you deserve to think differently because different thoughts create different results in your life. And that's what this is all about. Finishing the year strong, starting a new decade with incredible wisdom and power to transform your life. I hope you enjoyed this episode. And as always, I love you so very much. You know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.

Thank you.