892 Felicia Day on Unleashing Creativity and Loving Yourself Unconditionally

This is episode number 892 with actress and New York Times bestselling author Felicia Day. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

Couple of quotes I want to share.

With you in this episode. This is from Gary Zukav. Scarcity of self value cannot be remedied by money, recognition, affection, attention, or influence. That's a game changer. Scarcity of self value cannot be remedied by money, recognition, affection, attention, or influence. Think about that for a second. Don't allow your self-value to be attached to any of those things. That is going to hold you down in a big way. And this was from Alan Cohen. To love yourself right now, just as you are, is to give yourself heaven. Don't wait until you die. If you wait, you die now. If you love, You live now. Oh, big time. We're waiting so much. We're waiting for the recognition, the affection, the attention, the influence to bring us self value. And if we're waiting, we die. Wow, both of these quotes for me went together perfectly today. And if this is your first time here on the School of Greatness, welcome. This is all about helping you take your life to the next level, optimizing every area of your life. And we've always got something for everybody in every episode and interview. And today's guest is an inspiration. Her name's Felicia Day. She's a New York Times bestselling author, producer, actress, TV writer, and award-winning web series creator who has appeared in numerous TV shows and films. She's currently on the CW show Supernatural and the sci-fi series the Magicians. She created and starred in the web series the Guild, which ran for six seasons and created a funded YouTube channel and production company called Geek and Sundry. Her new book, Embrace youe Weird, is available now and I'm telling you, I'm digging it. I'm really enjoying it and I think you're gonna like it. And in this interview, we talk about the challenges of being a mom in Hollywood, Felicia's biggest fear as a creator and how she has found ways to move past it. What it means to love yourself unconditionally, regardless of your career, and what stage of your career you're at, and if you succeeded and failed and all this different stuff. Why Felicia believes creativity is self-care, how to overcome perfectionism when you're constantly creating content and art. This and so much more. Really enjoyed this. Make sure to share it with a friend, lewishouse.com/892 and you can be an inspiration in someone's life by giving them this value by making them a part of this class on the School of Greatness. So send them this episode and make sure to connect with me on social media @LewisHowes and connect with Felicia as well by just tagging her on Instagram or Twitter. I'm sure she'd love to know that you are watching or listening.

Welcome back. Welcome to the School of Greatness podcast. Excited. We've got Felicia Day. Good to see you.

Hey, what's up?

Good to see you. I was reading some fun facts about you. Uh-oh. I didn't know these things about you. I've known about you for years.

Okay.

But I didn't know these facts until we started researching. Okay, what do you got?

Hopefully this is the correct facts.

I mean, if it's Wikipedia, it's semi-accurate. That's hopefully, right? Yeah.

So you got accepted to Juilliard as a violinist, is that correct? The pre-program. So when I was 14, I got.

Accepted to the feeder program that goes.

Into Juilliard, so yeah. Do you still play violin? You know, not very much. I got it out the other day. I have an almost three-year-old and I wanted to start playing for her to kind of inspire her to learn music. And she's like, Mama, too loud. But you know, it is one of my resolutions for 2020 to at least play consistently a little bit more. 'Cause I think it actually makes me happier. 'Cause I'm very good at that.

And when you're in Hollywood, you don't.

Really feel good about anything. 'Cause you're always, what, chasing the next gig? Yeah, yeah, exactly. So I'm like, you know what? Just have a little bit of, yeah.

You'Re good at this in your life.

And so I think I could do that with violence. So I'm gonna double down at least a little bit every day.

Could you pick it back up after.

I guess, years of not playing it? Yeah, you know, that's the funny thing is, if I played for like two, three weeks, if I practiced a couple hours for two to three weeks, I could probably be pretty competent. I wouldn't be at the level that I was, 'cause I was very, very, you know, I was a professional level. You're a pro. Yeah, I was, but yeah, I could.

Definitely pick it up. You don't forget it.

I think it's the neural connections really stay there. Yeah, my brother's the number one jazz.

Violinist in the world currently. What? What's his name? His name's Christian Howes. I've heard of that. What? Yeah, so he was like a top classical violinist, like top in the country under 17 or 18. Got all the big scholarships as well to the big music schools. You decided to go to a different school, University of Texas, right?

Yeah, my parents could not afford to move to New York City just so I could go on the weekend. It was a weekend program, so they couldn't afford to just move to New York. Because, I mean, we were military family and we lived in the South, so it was like, that was not gonna happen.

Exactly.

But I did get a full scholarship to college at 15. So, it's crazy.

I just went-- For music?

For violin, yeah.

Yeah, so he went to Ohio State, did the whole music thing there.

Oh, wow.

But then he actually went to prison for four years.

What'd he do?

He sold drugs to an undercover cop. Oh, that's too bad.

At 18 years old.

Was it hard drugs? LSD. Yeah.

And, but at the time, it was.

Like the war on drugs in the 90s.

Yeah, that's awful.

That's awful. So he sent him six to ten. 25 years for his first offense because the judge wanted to make an example of anyone in Ohio doing that at that time.

Yeah, but that's just not so many people lost chunks of their lives.

That's not right. That's not right. So anyways, he learned jazz violin in prison because he joined the all-prison band and they were doing hip-hop and blues and R&B and rap and rock. So he was a classically trained guy that learned in prison from these other inmates. And now he's the top in the world in that jazz niche. No, I don't.

I need to look into him more because he's a machine.

It's unbelievable. Wow. That's incredible.

No, I wanna hear more about him.

That's incredible. That's an incredible story.

It's crazy story.

I'm actually working on a book.

Yeah, there's his tours, he produces, he doesn't. I'm gonna look him up immediately after.

This because my Spotify, you know they had that Spotify 2019.

So you're just watching it today.

Yeah, what was yours?

What was your song?

The song I listened to the most is by Bozi.

Okay.

Which is called Mine.

Have you heard this song?

No.

Hands on your body, I don't wanna waste your time. I listen to Scary Spider.

Okay.

It is, my Spotify is almost solely for children now, and she listens to all 90% Halloween songs. Wow. So especially spider specific. No, she does not like Bobby Sharrak, thank God, but she likes spider specific Halloween songs. So Spooky Spider, it's actually a pretty catchy tune. They all are, aren't they?

Oh no, it's true. If you can get a kid hooked, Then the adult is usually hooked too.

I mean, it's an earworm. If I have insomnia, that's what's going around my brain. It's not good.

Oh man.

No, so, yeah. Did you see this today on Spotify? Yes, I saw it today on Spotify. I even shared it on Twitter and I was like, whoops, this is my life now.

Crazy, right? Spooky Spider, yeah, Beauty and the Beast, oh boy. Mom life. Now, it's all good. How do you become a mom and be in Hollywood? I feel like it's already a lot of pressure to be in Hollywood, acting, writing. producing, creating, you've been acting for a long time, producing, producing, writing all the things. But how do you decide, I'm going to have a child and still be creative when I'm exhausted, drained, the attention's not about me anymore as much as it's about raising a human being. And how do you continue to evolve?

I mean, you evolve as a person. You just have to let go of what you were in the past a little bit, which is a struggle. I mean, I was certainly a workaholic. Everything I've achieved in life has been like outside the system through my hard work, really. versus like somebody kind of picking me and featuring me in a, you know, whatever it is in Hollywood. So being that workaholic is not possible anymore. And it is a struggle because I always feel like I'm not doing enough and I'm not progressing. And then I look for opportunities. But I think as a woman and a mother, they are fewer and far between in Hollywood. The kind of perception of you changes in a radical way.

In what way? What do they think about you?

I mean, I think that men, you know, certainly see women through the lens of their own sexuality inadvertently, unconsciously or consciously. And so when you have reproduced, there's a certain, I've read a lot of interviews with like Reese Witherspoon and Jessica Alba as well, where they feel that there's a shift in perception of them within the industry.

Less desirable?

Less desirable, yeah. Less futureable, less willing to invest in because there's something either that is not as attractive to them, in them, to men. I think it's, and I think a lot of it is unconscious, but a lot of it might be conscious too. And I see the struggle of that a lot. And I feel it for me, I've never was that glamorous person, but I do see that the perception in the women, in the eyes of men and women is different now.

Yeah, I feel like I see where you're coming from there, but I also feel like moms rule the world in terms of a mom creator that has like kids, you can relate to all these moms in the world who are buyers, consumers, watchers, viewers.

Yeah, if you want to only talk to that, basically you get shunted to a small specific, like I can only talk to other moms, right? And then if you're not, I always found I was not interested in other moms before. I never really held a baby before I held mine.

Right.

And so I don't want to just be, okay, I have to cater to moms now because that's my business opportunity to grow. I'm like, that's not who I am. I'm a lot of different things. I am a mom and I am passionate about raising her right. I don't want that to define me as an artist, right? So, you know, I think is anything in life as you grow and you age, you have to find your new self and it's always, it's a bigger, it's one of the bigger transitions in life, I think. So I'm still navigating it myself. Really. But, you know, you just put one foot in front of the other and just keep going.

So your daughter's three?

She will be three in two months.

So she's almost three. Yeah. Do you feel like you've let go of your old identity and you've transitioned into a new identity yet, or do you feel like you're still in that transition?

No, I'm fully in. identity sort of shift still. And, you know, I've been working through it. I had a really hard time hormonally weaning my baby. I breastfed her for two years. I don't know why I'm telling you this, but hey, I'll tell anybody. It was really, really tough for my body was not, does not respond well to hormonal shifts. So it's been a real struggle to get my sleep back, get my balance back, get any consistency in my life back. And I feel good now since my book came out in October. I feel like I've kind of like done it. My book was actually when I wrote it was sort of like putting myself back together after I had a baby.

Yeah. Because I felt like this was hard to write during that.

It was very hard to write because I was going through depression and anxiety and all these things because they were hormonal changes and weaning her and then also just finding myself. But all the techniques in here were things that I was using to try to be like, okay, who are you? And because all these things in your life that you have to cut out now, what is left? What do you want to be there and how do we like focus that? Because there's just not time to be everything anymore. If you wanna be a mother, and I believe if you wanna be a good parent to your child, you have to make room for them, right?

Were you doing too much before? You were trying to do so many.

Things, is that what you're saying? Yeah, yeah. I had a full-time business. I was full-time actor. I was also a writer, a producer, personality. I was doing internet stuff, constant social media, like all of that on top of each other was not even tenable when I was doing it. you know? But when the baby came, I was like, whoa, this is like, I sense, the analogy is like you order a couch off of Amazon or whatever, and it's like three times as big as you thought it was. So you're like, how do I put this in my room? Yeah. And make the rest of the room work ever? And so it still feels crowded, but you just have to cut things out. You have to get rid of that coffee table. You gotta get rid of that career. And then like, what is left? Well, you gotta put what's important to you left. in your life.

What did you cut out then?

You know, I started cutting out. I had a booked club that I did online. It was like a romance book club. I cut that out. And you were writing it or you were- no, no. It was an online group that I had. That was the first thing I stopped. Then I quit my company, which was really tough because I was my baby.

What do you mean? You just said I'm dissolving the company.

You sold it? No, I sold a company in 2014 and I worked there for over two years. And then I was like, I can't do this and this. And it turned into a very stressful situation for for me, it was like I was more of an administrator than a creator. So I had, you know, it was kind of time for me to leave anyway, but I knew definitely I can't do the career that I want, which is the creative part and run the business and have a baby. So I had to let something go. And it was very hard. Yeah, it was really hard. So, yeah, cutting things out like that, I'm way less prolific on social media. I don't really do as many web videos on my own, especially. So, yeah, it's hard. It's very hard. But I think It's a good thing because a lot of us, you know, we dissipate our energies and give it, you know, give it into a lot of places that aren't really important to us. We just do it because it's there.

Or there's opportunity or whatever.

But we want to stay relevant or- Want to stay relevant, yeah. Like, but at the end of the day, our time is precious and like, don't spend it on stuff that is not long-term important to you.

So actually it's a good thing, but it's really hard to go through it. It's hard to let go. It's like you're killing your past self. Yeah. Every day you're- letting something die. That was once exciting.

You're distilling it. I like to think about it as like-- Putting a pause. You are putting your broth, your broth was really full and now you're just like, okay, we gotta simmer it down to something we can put in a smaller container, right? So, I like to think of it like that. Although some days it does feel like dying.

It does, right? It feels like death. I mean, what's your biggest fear over the last few years as a creative, as an artist, as a actor, That.

There'S not opportunity to grow and innovate, I think. I'm the kind of person who I'm fueled by innovation. I'm fueled by being on the cutting edge. And I think right now we're in a lull of it. Podcasting to me is kind of where the industry has, but it was cutting edge three years ago, four years ago, five years ago.

Now it's saturated.

Now it's 700,000 podcasts. Yeah, and I really admire people like you who've been in it. You're dedicated. This is your thing. But now it's almost like people, dilettantes, jumping in just like web video. just kind of having their say and be like, Ooh, it's hard. Let me get out of here. That doesn't serve your audience and it doesn't serve you as a creator, right? So, you know, I'm kind of always searching for like, what is it that's new and exciting and out of the box and introducing something different to people? And so, you know, I haven't found that thing yet, but I have a lot of creative things I'm working on while I look for that.

Is it challenging to have a bunch of projects going and being like a leader on a show and being on a show for a while and creating these different things and then not have something for a while.

For sure.

How do you handle that? Deal with that emotionally, internally, and what's your creative outlet during that downtime?

I mean, it's really tough. I think any artist, especially in Hollywood, like you do a project and it ends and then you kind of, you create a family and you create something with them and then it's over. And so I kind of signed up for a lifetime of letdowns in a sense, because the highs are so wonderful. You're like, okay, I'm willing to do it. And then you hit the ground and you got to look for your next gig. It's very not stable. It's not predictable. It's certainly not like, doesn't feel settled in any way. But it's what I would do over any regular day job, because I can't, you know, that makes me feel very confined, you know? And some people love that stability. I kind of envy that. That's just not for me. But yeah, you know, when the bottom drops out from under you, you're just like, well, what do I do now? And so, I think you've got a.

Lot of, like, you've got a lot of famous friends that you've worked with who are probably doing big things in the COVID of magazines. How does that make you feel? Do you judge yourself or compare yourself to other people that are friends that you were maybe bigger than at one point? And how do you manage that comparison game?

I mean, I talked about this in my book a lot. Like, the whole jealousy section is one of my favorites because, I, you have to know somebody's journey. And the fact that I do know a lot of famous people, I know that they have a lot of downs. I know that no matter the money.

The fame, the power- you- have 10.

Years of nothing, maybe, or whatever. Or they're on top of the world and they're not happy, you know? Like, there's no, I think the one thing that I can take away from life, if I had like $100 million tomorrow, I don't know if I'd live that much differently. And so we have to be happy with that. And then think about like, well, what would I do if I had all that? Well, there's small changes in my life that I can do. It's one of the exercises in my book. It's like, if you win the lotto tomorrow, what would be different? And then how can you take one of those things in your life? Because I think it's not as radical as you think. Because I think, you know, you see people consume everything in this town, and yet I don't think all that consumption makes anyone happy. Having the prettiest clothes, having the like, you know, all the nails and the hair and the shoes and the vacations in the house, they have just as many, the people like that have more problems, I think, because their values are not in the right place. And so I hope that each person, no matter what their status or financial level or fame level, they have that sort of thing where they're like, well, what is really important to me? Let's put our time into that because ultimately that's what we're all gonna regret on a deathbed, right?

Exactly. And I know a guy who won about $400 million on a lotto, a young guy that I've been helping out and kind of guiding over the last few years since he won. And it didn't really change his lifestyle, you know? He doesn't have to work anymore, but it doesn't make him productive or meaningful or happier. He still has to find value, find meaning in his life, and grow and learn and develop meaningful relationships. And find people that like him not for his money.

That's another challenge. Yeah, I mean, especially in LA, when you ebb and flow and fame and influence and stuff, people are attracted to you because, you know, And I don't even know if it's conscious. It's like that you can do something for them or they want a piece of what you have. And when that success goes up and down over the years, you see people disappear, right? Has that happened to you?

Of course, yeah.

I mean-- on a big show for a while. Yeah, or I'm doing, you know, very pioneering stuff and people want to be around you and then they're just like zip out, you know? And it's fine because as long as you use it as a lesson, like, oh, I need to invest in the people who pick me up at the airport if I can't afford to get picked up, right? Not the people who are fancy or give me free gifts or make me look exciting or they want to be a part of what I'm doing. Those are not people who are there for you. You need people who are there for you in the lowest of lows. Because when you're the highest of highs, you get really saturated with people.

When's the lowest point for you? When's it been the lowest point for you?

I've had a couple. Earlier this year really was quite hard and I realize now in retrospect it was really a hormonal thing after weaning my baby. I really genuinely was like, I think I'm gonna move on and figure something else out because-- From what, like acting?

From all of this.

No way, really? Yeah, I was like, I could very easily run a coffee shop and be very happy. Right, right. I'll have like a board game night, you know, karaoke, some music. Hey man, we'll do some music. Service, exactly. And I'm like, well what is different? I think especially when you're in an industry where your self-worth is based on what other people value you as, ultimately you have to value yourself. you have to be like, I'm awesome if I'm a barista or I'm an actress. And if you can have that core, and I'm not saying that I have a consistent core of that, but that's what I strive to do every day.

How do you get to that place?

You have to lose everything and you have to feel like you can, you have to feel like the ultimate failure. You have to feel like, I think you really just have to get to the point where you can get out of your own way and realize that you are valuable and should love yourself no matter where you are in life. And if you can get to that place where you have unconditional love for yourself, I truly believe that you will find the path that you're meant to do. Because then you're not making decisions of, oh, if I do this, I'll get to this in my career and that person will like me, right? We all just need to wake up happy every day. And if that's teaching kids to dance, or that's being a banker, or if that's being a teacher, or running a coffee shop, or acting, like whatever it is, make sure you're motivated by the right thing. And that's really the theme of my book. Like, sign up for the work of your creativity and value yourself every day for your uniqueness, 'cause everyone's unique.

That's true. How do we love ourselves unconditionally?

Yeah, it's very, I mean, it's easy.

How do you, what's the process of getting there?

You know, I don't know. I learned a lot from my child because having her, I realized that I didn't do that before and I didn't appreciate myself as much as I could have. I've always been a proponent of loving yourself for other people, and yet I didn't focus that inward. And when I had her, I started realizing that she absorbs everything around her and me speaking ill of my looks or where I am in my career, I don't want her to learn to talk to herself like that, right? And so you see these things that we obviously have learned in our life. No one is taught as a two-year-old to not love what they do and be criticized. You know what I'm saying? These are things that are the outside world imposes on us. It's either parental or whatever. And so I'm hyper conscious of that, and then that makes me be hyper conscious of the thoughts that I send into my own brain. So really having a baby, yes, it crumbled everything I am, but it made me put myself better in a more functional way. And then, yes, I might not be as successful or fancy, but it's okay because ultimately I'll be a happier person on my deathbed.

I'm all about that deathbed. I know, right? Well, it's interesting when we reflect about death more frequently, we can actually become more Present, happier, have perspective, make better decisions. When we ask us... Do you do that a lot? I started doing it a lot. I think there's a country called Bhutan. I think that's what it is called Bhutan. I can't remember. Someone came on here and talked about this. I think the country is called Bhutan. But I heard that they practice five times a day of reflecting on their death. Five times a day. Oh, five times a day.

Wow.

I think it's just for like...

I just do it when I have insomnia.

Exactly.

3 a.m. Oh my god, I'm gonna die one day.

There's an app that I was using for a long time.

I can't remember what it's called.

Is it like your dead app? That reminds you five times a day.

That you're gonna die.

Wow. With a little quote that gives you perspective on the moment of your life. Yeah.

That's just like, I think that's kind of stoicism.

It's like remember you're gonna die. So just put everything in perspective. Like, oh this stress I'm feeling right now, doesn't matter. that person flipping me off on the road, it doesn't matter right now. Because I'm gonna die one day. Let me make the most out of this. Let me get the most juice out of my life and have more joy over pain.

100%.

Because these little moments don't matter to get upset, to get frustrated, things like that. So what did you learn from your daughter about creativity and something that you didn't ever know about creativity or you forgot?

I learned a lot from her. And a lot of this book is about seeing a child just come out of me and be like, I am who I am, but I have to find out who I am. It's so weird. We're all born a certain way, but we have to learn who we are. It's literally we're our own life's homework, right? Yes. And along the way, what you learn can warp what you are, I believe. So I always want to be here to allow her to be whatever she wants to be. And so I think she taught me that we're all just inherently creative and spontaneous and unjudgmental about what comes out of us. And we create because we are trying to fill the walls of who we are, right? So we're throwing something against the wall creatively to see how the world works and how we work within the world. And so I think that that really taught me to be a lot more unfettered, more uninhibited, less judgmental and goal oriented with my creativity.

You're less judgmental and goal oriented.

Yeah, and I think that creativity for people is self-care. you know, I really believe that. And I think that we consume a lot of things to sort of shield ourselves from ourselves. Like, rather than, you know, listening to a podcast or watching a TV show or web video, sorry me, I think that, you know, if we took an hour to just do a sketch or, you know, draw or play the violin or piano or anything to learn more about ourselves, knitting, you know, I think that's really important and it makes us feel like we're fuller, like we've lived a little bit during the day and we've let ourselves out of ourselves. in a way.

My mom knits like two, three hours a day. That's incredible.

She taught me knitting when I was like a kid. That's great and it's very soothing, right?

Like it really makes you be in that movement, right? You have to be present. You were right there.

You're present, yeah. You get a little bored after a while, but she loves it. I mean she's doing it. It's whatever you, but finding that for yourself, like it's that, you know, that state of flow they talk about, like that is what I love. I love, I feel the state of flow when I play the violin, I feel that state of flow when I edit, I love editing. There are certain things that really, video editing, yeah. When I am focused on a project, that's what I love, and that's why I'm here. It doesn't really matter if it's acting or writing or producing or whatever. I just love being in a state of total focus on one thing and trying to make it as best as I can, you know? So yeah, that's what she's taught me, and I have a lot more to learn from her, and I, she, you know, hopefully I won't warp her into something that, she doesn't wanna be. Like that's my goal. I just want her to find herself and not push her in a direction.

That she doesn't want to go.

I don't want to go necessarily.

Do you feel like you're more productive because you're more focused with your time.

When you're not, you know, really?

Are you? I mean, you don't have a kid.

As a mom, yeah, I don't have kids.

Oh, as a mom, do you feel like you're saying no to lots of stuff and focusing, you know, in an.

Hour, which you're used to do in like four hours? I mean, I can't say that I feel so much more efficient. I do feel more efficient. I do feel more lonely in that I have to cut off all those little whims that I used to do before.

I do feel loneliness is something. Activities and like little quick meetups with friends or whatever.

Yeah, those kind of things. Like, hey, come out for a drink or come see my play. Those things really are the things that go. And it is a sense of loneliness, I think, that I have recently realized I need to battle a little bit. So I'm gonna take a class and I'm gonna be able to say yes, you know, once a week to something like that you're talking about. But our instinct is there's so little time. We're just scrambling, you know? And just, it's like running on a, running trying to get ahead of like, you know, something that's trying to crush you, you know, the Indiana Jones kind of thing. And so I think, you know, it's easy to sort of sacrifice yourself in that way because time is so precious. But at the end of the day, it is enriching to be around other people. And so like a whole section of this book is about allies and how people, how important it is to have your mentors, your role models, and also your friends to support you on your journey because the long term of creativity is where we really find the most benefits because we'll get better at it. And we make it more of our lives.

There's a podcast called the Happiness Lab, which is all about the science of happiness.

Oh yeah, I've heard that a couple times.

Dr. Laurie Santos. And she talks about, even though people say that they're introverted and they like their alone time, there is direct correlation to being alone and being unhappy. The more introverted you become, but every time you're around someone else, even if you're uncomfortable, even if you didn't want to talk to that person, you feel happier, you feel connected, you feel more more purposeful, meaningful life when you speak and connect with other people.

--I think it's a combination. I think, you know, --You need a little alone time too. --Yeah, I think I'm interested in that because there's also another book called Quiet. I can't remember the name, but it's all about how introverted people --Sarah Cain. --Sarah Cain, yeah. And I love that book a lot because there were a lot of, you know, misnomers about being introverted. I mean, I'm certainly a person who if I go to a party for an hour, I have, I need to recharge. I'm not like, I can't, that was awesome. I'm like, okay, that was fine, but I'm so tired right now. I need to just be in silence. So that's just me. And it's also just about a journey of getting to know what activates you and what works for you and not doing things because someone's told you to do it, right? I think a lot of that with creativity, it's like, especially with writing, it's been a long journey for me trying to figure out how I best work as a writer and not judging the way that I work is like, well, it's not good enough. You're too slow. Nobody does it that way. You need an outline before you start writing. All these rules, it's really about being gentle with ourselves and figuring out, okay, I actually work really well if I am in my PJs or I go down to McDonald's. What makes you, I have to write on something, I have to work on something like it's clay. I have to go back and mold it a little and I'll go over here and then I'll come back to it. That's not how a lot of writers work. It's a longer process. When I started embracing like, okay, what makes me work well? That was exciting because then I'm really being true to myself and then I was just better at working, I think.

You were better, yeah.

Yeah.

On a scale of one to 10, how creative do you feel like you are right now in your life?

Wow. You know, I'd say like a six or a seven. I'm pretty good. You know, I was recently discussing with somebody, you know, I used to make web video and I would make, you know, especially from like 2011 to 2015, 17, I would make five to 10 videos a week. I would oversee them in some way. You know, I would, I would not act in them, but you would. I would not necessarily be in all of them.

I would produce them.

I would be reading development material to make more videos. I would be giving notes on scripts. I would be giving notes on edits. I would be giving notes on design for the, you know, so I was constantly being barrage. And like, I was talking to somebody and she's like, oh, it sounds like you were on a high because you constantly were creative. You were in this environment where you could just be poop, poop, poop. Like, I have an idea. Let's go, let's go, let's go. see the reaction immediately. And so it was almost like being addicted to that sort of-- A drug, yeah. It was almost a drug, yeah. And so, you know, it's taken years for me to figure out, like, okay, there is another way to operate, and you shouldn't compare that feeling to what you have now, 'cause it's gonna be different. You're not getting that dopamine hit of, like, great, we made something. How do people react? Okay, let's go to the next one, you know? I don't have that anymore. So that realization that I was addicted to that kind of feedback is really important. and has allowed me to be like, okay, I'm working on something for the next six months. And then just like this book, I worked on it for a year. It's out. It was amazing to release. Now I'm ready for something new. It's a different pace of living. It's a different pace of creativity. And it's been sort of like a, but now that I'm getting into it, I feel like, oh, I think this will be more long-term satisfying because I.

Can put more time into something, right? Yeah, I mean, I feel like the majority of people, creatives right now, are probably addicted to that Let me post on social media and get a quick reaction, excitement around that quick post or video or whatever it may be. Whereas there's a book called Deep Work, I think it's called, where it's about actually diving into the deep work and having the time to spend a month, six months, a year on a project that takes time and love and massaging and all these different things is where we create more meaningful work.

Well, it lasts for a long time. And my philosophy around web video was always trying to make more evergreen content. I'm really proud of that. Like a lot of the videos that I made around Magic: the Gathering or tabletop games or, you know, these are things that people watch today. They're more evergreen. That was always my philosophy about my web video, the Guild, 10 years later it's still on Netflix, right? Amazing. So like that investment of time and that vibe was, it really, I became more unhappy when the industry kind of pushed me toward making more disposable content.

That's topical for the week.

Yeah, which is great. That's just not the thing that made me happy and it took a while to realize that, right? My kind of backpedaling and it's different venues now because that kind of web video isn't made right now. It's more just TV or podcasts right now, which is fine. But putting my efforts into books and other formats in a longer term way, it makes me impatient sometimes, but I'm like, I know that when I finish this, this book will last forever. I will be proud in 10 years to give it to someone because it's.

I mean, it's evergreen.

Exactly.

It's great.

Oh, thanks.

How do you overcome the need to be perfect as a creative? And how do you overcome self-doubt when you're working on a creative project, especially in Hollywood and with this world? Do you have a lot of self-doubt or?

I have an analogy to that. I've talked about it a lot in here about how anxiety and fear of failure and all these things, but I recently was thinking about it as a way of like Google Maps. You know, when we're looking at a project or a city, you know, in our world, right? A project can be a city. You have to be at the right magnification level at the point where you are in the creative process, right? So you cannot be like zooming out to world view and looking at your project all the time because then you're paralyzed. You're second guessing everything. Yeah, you're either second guessing or you're being like, I gotta just retool the whole thing. Let's redo the whole plot.

No, scratch it.

I've done it.

Throw it away.

Throw it away from scratch because you're just looking at it from a perspective or someone else's perspective, you know, and I talk about this a lot. You got to be in it. You got to honor the process and know that you're going to do bad work to get to the finish line. You've got to get to the finish line before you get to the go back to the beginning. And you can't look at the whole thing in too wide a lens too early or you'll ruin everything because no, it's not ready to be looked at right then. You're only 10% into it, man. You cannot look at it from, from that kind of worldview. So What did you say?

You gotta be at the finish line.

Before you can go back to the beginning? Yes, you have to get to the, I mean, that's the number one thing for creativity I've learned.

You gotta finish it in order to go back to the beginning and fix it.

So it's not just, I finished it and it's done. Oh no, I mean, no judgment, you're.

Probably not working hard enough. Right, it's the editing, it's the refine, it's the stepping away and coming back.

It'S having a life experience moment and reflecting. Yeah, and working through it and learning something about yourself, having gone through the finish and being like, okay, this is what I wanted to say. say, how do I make it better? I mean, I'm not saying that anybody can-- I mean, I've done things where I did a first draft and I'm like, it's done. Very, very rarely. Most of the time it takes a lot of work, but you have to be brave enough to just do the bad work to get to the end and then go back and fix it. That's what I believe.

And that's what I talk about in my book a lot. Isn't that hard though, to be like-- to be doing something, writing a book, and the first draft and being like, gosh, this really sucks. How do you not judge yourself and have this desire to doubt like, I shouldn't put this out. I can't keep working on this. It's never going to be what I want it to be.

I'm comparing it to someone else's book. I mean, all of those things are just talk about. Those are the voices you don't listen to, right? I mean, you have to look at it as a process and you have to look at it as the end result would, I would be happy regardless of this, whether this is successful or not, right? That's where that inner satisfaction comes because you know you did the best work you could. And you can't let that critic start talking until you know that you're ready to step away from it. Then that voice can take over. Otherwise, I mean, first draft is a first draft. You're not embracing the fact that it's work. And that's what I talk about in this book a lot. Creativity is work. It's not just some muse coming out all sexy out of you and just like, you know, this artist.

Yeah, exactly.

And it's like, it's done. It just came out of me. I didn't work at all. That is not realistic. It's this weird perception we have of genius. And I said in the book, Lin-Manuel Miranda, It took six years to write Hamilton. How many drafts do you think he did of every thing? I just read this wonderful book. I can't remember the name of it, but it's a book the author took 15 years to write it. And he kept going back to it and just ripping it apart and rewriting it. And it won a Booker Award. It won a bunch of things. But he couldn't let it go because it meant something to him. But he would finish it and then walk away. And then he'd be like rip. And he'd go back and he'd keep working on it. And it was brilliant. But 15 years. you know, so you can't expect everything to be perfect, right? At the end of the day, you have to move on, you have to do something and move on, right? Like you can't grow if you're working on one thing for 20 years. So it really is about having people outside of you as sort of touchstones of like, okay, you know, help me, help me decide whether I move on, help me decide how many more drafts of this do I need to do, help me know that if releasing this now will make me a better artist, or it will devastate me because I released it too early, right? Right. And so sometimes you can't know that. You just need your outside help.

Mentor. You have a whole chapter on mentors.

Yeah.

You have a chapter on enemies too, right?

You write something about enemies. But over half the book is about enemies. It's about fear. I mean, the enemies are anxiety, fear of failure, procrastination. Those are the enemies. Powerlessness. Jealousy, real life enemies. I mean, there was a lot. I could have gone on. My editor was like, it's a little too much for the enemies. I can go on more. I'm a paranoid person, right? Right. But I mean, we're our worst enemies. We're our own worst enemies. And the fact, if you, the point of this book was to make self-help be more fun, more playful, and think about things from a different angle than you have in the past. And so that's why it's interactive. That's why it has exercises everywhere. Because unless you're doing something, you're not really going to absorb it into your own world. You're just going to kind of like put in your brain and like, oh, I might highlight a word or a.

Sentence there, but it's not really going to affect you. I really want this book to affect people. Yeah. How do you manage energy when you have negative people in your life during the creative process?

You have to shut them out. I mean, there's a big, one of my favorite exercises in there is taking a person and visualizing and shutting a door on them. Because you can love that person, but they're not safe for you when you're creating, right? And so you can have that person in your life if you can figure out a way to navigate it. Or you might just need to press a pause. I mean, I'm not all about like cut people from, you know, I'm not a cult leader. I don't want people to abandon their families or their friends, right? But I do want people to honor their own process and who they are because we're often taught, especially women, to honor other people's needs from us in front of other people, right? And so, you know, if someone knocks on my virtual door, email, hey, wanna have lunch tomorrow? I'm gonna be like, sure. Could you please, you're my favorite. I wanna please, you know, and I'm like, what do you need from me? Take it, you know, and I, you know, I have, I need to value myself more. I invent people in my life that I'm supposed to like, I have a writing partner who's fake. I have an assistant who's fake.

And I'm just like, pretend that they're defending me. Really?

Tell me more about that. What is that? I'm just like, Felicia has a writing.

You know she has a writing session.

Tomorrow with so and so. You'll email people back. Yeah, as my fake assistant. No way. Then I have an appointment with a.

Writing partner who doesn't exist.

Wow. Because you need to protect your, And also, yeah, and people are not like, will not honor you if you're doing something for yourself. If I told you, hey, I can't meet with you, I have to write, you would be like, less important. I've got a massage. Yeah, a massage or something. You would be kind of pissed that I was not giving my time to you, more than if I said, I'm sorry, I have a writing partner I'm writing with, right? Yeah. There's a weird-- There's a prior commitment. Yeah. I have a prior commitment with another.

Person, not myself, right? Isn't that weird?

Crazy. It's really weird.

So now I know when I email you next time, if you're gonna pull.

Me off, if there's really-- Janet says--.

There's a real-- Felicia says writing with Sean tomorrow.

I'll be like, okay, I remember now. Janet and Sean don't exist. Are those the people's names?

No, I changed them.

You change them up every few months.

You kind of mix them up. Okay. So you cut people out, you have an imaginary door, you shut the door.

Yeah.

And that helps you what?

Protect your inner peace or that is the barrier? Well, you know, I think so. I mean, I don't know, when you.

Create, don't you feel like there's somebody that you're trying to pleased when you're creating? I think I'm always trying to give to people. So this conversation right here is probably really powerful for me to listen to because I'm always trying to contribute to other people. I'm always wanting to say, how can I support you? How can I give? What's the challenge you have in your.

Life that I can- I want to solve your problems.

Connect someone to you or listen to you for hours. And then I just, I'm like my whole day is gone.

Yeah.

And I start working at like seven o'clock at night because I've just been giving all day to other people.

Yeah. So I need to be- I feel that a lot. I do the same thing. I feel most important when I'm of help to other people. There's a reason why I played a lot of assistance on TV, you know? 'Cause I do have that eager, like, I will do anything for you. I don't exist except for you. And yet that's a terrible way to- I mean, it really is. I'm telling myself this, and it's a struggle that I deal with. Like, I am not honoring myself. I'm not- what happens when all the pieces that are useful to other people are gone? Are they gonna be there for us? Probably not. Probably not, and maybe not even in a vindictive way. It's just unconscious, right?

Like, you know. Like I told Lily, my assistant, I was like, Don't schedule any meetings. Let's try to cut off as many meetings this month so I can get things done.

Yeah.

But it's hard because there's always someone.

In town and there's this opportunity. I know, believe me.

It's like, I know, but say no to a friend. Even if it is a close friend of yours, you're like, My inbox is full of five people that I feel too guilty about saying no to, but I just don't want to meet them. Not personal, I just want my December to Right. I just need it. And so- you- haven't responded? I haven't responded. I don't know how to respond. I'm paralyzed right now. Well, call Janet up and tell her. Janet's gonna be like, Felicia's out of the country. I mean, I know a couple of people, very famous writers, Neil Gaiman is one of them, and he will just put an auto reply on his email and be like, I'm so sorry, I'm not checking email for the next two months. Only my assist. I will not read this. Please contact me again in January. And a lot of that, I did that for a while, and it really does work because if you're a friend, you'll know, oh, he's doing his work. I want his work. It is so hard. It is very, very hard, but I think ultimately, what are you gonna show for yourself at the end, other than just giving yourself to everybody?

I know.

Right.

Having your attention and your time spread out too thin.

And then you won't have as much to give people, right? You won't be as successful, you won't be as productive, you won't be as creative, then you're not useful to them as much.

So really, if you could think about it like that. Right.

You need to be selfish for yourself.

So you can give more to other people.

Make yourself more usable.

That's interesting. How do you manage your emotions when you aren't feeling like you're at the top, when you don't have a series that's running well, or you're not getting on red carpets as much, or whatever. I'm not in the Hollywood world, so I don't know this game, but how do you- I'm not either.

I'm really not. Even when I get invited to red carpets, I'm like, I don't want to spend the money on an outfit. I do not want to make my hair look nice. What am I going to gain from this interaction? So, you know, it is really tough. I think when you are in a sort of status and achievement oriented, you know, career, which we all are, but Hollywood is sort of like hyper. Your relevance to other people is your worth. And so crazy. It's crazy. It is really not.

How do you deal with that if you're not as relevant or you're less.

Relevant or you're, you know, I just don't invest. and I know that it might go away. I think that I've gotten to the point where I'm just like, okay, that might disappear and I think I'll be just as happy. I think you get to the point where you have to, and then of course, I mean, if I want to go to a movie, I'm like, oh, I want to see that movie or that, you know, I do it for fun. And then, you know, I'll do it like I know if I'll see some friends there, right? Or I'm like, this is a really good business opportunity. So I have certain categories where I weigh it. I'm like, okay, Is this business useful? Is this personal useful? Is this just a good night out? And those are the three categories. And if it's not one of the three, it's like definitely not worth my time. Because I'd rather sit and stare at my wall than go network with people.

Right. How does someone not value their self-worth on their relevance? How do they train themselves or create a different scenario or story in their mind that my relevance, my following size, views, likes is not tied to my self-worth.

I mean, it's very, very hard. And I think that social media really destroys us. And I think that just knowing that my self-worth is not tied to these things, you know, my career might be, but your self-worth and your career have to be separate. And you really have to just cut, cut, cut. Right?

That's powerful.

And know that every career, especially, you know, online career, it goes like that. You know, I know huge YouTubers that can't get arrested right now, right? They were so popular, Vine stars, they just disappeared, right?

It's gone.

And I think it's hard. Fame is very warping, right? And you always have that as sort of a high, and you have that as sort of a benchmark of your own success, that high of where you were the most famous, most successful, most financially rewarded, right? But that is the definition of basing your self-worth on the externals. You can't control those things. You can only control your work. And so you should really base your high on where you were most fulfilled. And you were making the things that were most meaningful to you. And the things that you'll take forward in your life as things you were proud of, right? You just want to duplicate that versus all the external rewards, 'cause it's all conditional, right?

It is. You're a very wise woman.

Thank you. I'm on stage. Great.

Very wise. And in the book, you've got so many different exercises and examples. I love how creative the book is. Oh, thank you very much. Did you do all like the doodling and drawing?

I did not, but it was a style, like were I be able to draw that would have been it. Yes, I am not a person who anyone should look at my drawing and I don't wanna share it to be honest with you, but I do, I love this style because it's very spontaneous and fun and whimsical and that's what I want, you know, a lot of self-help journeys are like luxury, they're very Harley of them now, they're almost shaming sometimes, or they're like super gaudy God-driven, like spiritual, Ooby Groovy. And I'm like, God bless you if you feel like you need a spirit to enter you to get into this. Like, it's not my style. So I just wanted to do a funny, fun, self-effacing, whimsical, and playful. I just want people to feel very.

Playful and encouraged at the end of this book. I love it. I love it. I've got a couple questions left for you, but make sure you guys get the book before I ask the final questions. Okay, great. It's called Embrace youe Weird. face your fears and unleash creativity. I feel like there's more and more actors and celebrities who are coming out with self-help memoirs and books to help people. And I find it powerful because there probably is a lot of stress and overwhelm that actors go through that they have to do the work on themselves to just get through it and be happy and be joyful.

Yeah, well, I wrote this book because I wrote a memoir many years in 2000, four years ago, three years ago, called youd're Never Weird in the Internet Almost. And that and writing through my own about my own journey of being like this weird kid who was homeschooled, going to college way too early, you know, coming to LA and thinking I was a star and it not really happening, and then, you know, making my own success out of my garage, right? And that journey, people, you know, I would get people telling me all the time that really made me start, made them start creating something themselves. And it also made them help get help for anxiety and depression. I think especially anxiety, I battled my whole life. And I didn't really realize how much it ruled my life until I I started becoming a little bit more cogent of my behavior and how it affected me. And so out of that response to my memoir, I really wrote this because I wanted to give the tools to other people. I really felt like, okay, if people are taking this from that book, how much more could I give them for themselves? Because honestly, if somebody comes up and says, I started doing programming because of you, that's so much more exciting than here's an award for something you did two years ago. It's, okay, that's wonderful. And it might open opportunities business-wise, but it's not like I feel good as a human being, right? And so that's why I wrote this book. I really feel like it's something that, you know, the people who've read it are like, I'm getting it for my daughter, and I'm getting it for my, you know, husband and my aunt. And I'm like, this is great because you're spreading joy, and if that kind of can go through person after person.

Like that's way better with to do with my life. So much more fulfilling.

Yeah.

When you make an impact on one person's life, and they see a result.

Because of something you created for them, so. Well, I mean, that's one of the points I make in the book, like in the critic section, like, yes, you might make something and release it into the world and people loathe it. It might be awful, but you don't know how that awful thing you made, quote unquote, could affect another person and make them go make something else that may change the world. You don't know.

True.

So your creativity doesn't need to be judged. It just needs to be out there for yourself.

Yes. Okay, this is called the three truths. I ask everyone.

Is this your deal?

This is a question I ask. Three truths that I ask everyone at the end. So imagine, since we've talked about regret and dying, imagine that's your last day on Earth many years from now. You choose the day and you've lived as long as you want and you've created everything you want to create. You see your family grow and everything is the way you want it to be, right?

Okay, sure.

But you got to choose a day where it's all over. And every creative project you've put into the world has to go with you. So no one has access to your work. anymore.

Okay.

The videos, the books, the creativity, everything you put in the world goes with you to wherever you go next. But you get to leave behind three things you know to be true about your entire experience on this earth. Three lessons, three truths.

Okay.

And you can write them down and you can, that's all people have to remember you by are these three truths. What would you say would be yours?

Wow, this is a complicated question. I think as a person who's been in the world of fame and recognition, I heard this great Jenny Leno quote about Conan O'Brien, and Conan O'Brien was like, I feel like people are gonna remember me. And Jay Leno was like, Nobody cares. You're forgotten. Just live for the moment, right? Nobody will care after you're dead. They might not care next year. And that's when I see, when I go down a street and I see a person's name on a building or a street, I'm like, Does anyone care about that person? Nobody cares. Nobody cares about Century City. I don't know if it's Mr. Century or what. It's like no one cares. That name might be there, but no one is thinking about who that person was. It's just your name. So what is the point of achieving all that? So I guess my message would be the only people worth investing in are the people who will be with you when you're dying. Your weirdness is your superpower. The only way you know you're alive is to create.

That's cool. The only way you know you're alive is to create.

Yeah, why is that? Because like I said, this is what I learned from my daughter. When you're creating, it's like a bat flying around by sonar, and they send their sound out and it bounces off things and then comes back to them and tells them how the world works. That's how our creativity is. When we throw our creativity out there, it bounces off the world and comes back to us. And we know so much more about ourselves and the world from it. Wow.

You should be Batwoman. That would be amazing.

That'd be sweet, right? Isn't there Batwoman coming out? It's not very good.

Wait, sorry.

Isn't there a movie Batwoman coming out? There's a TV show Batwoman. Oh, TV show. Yeah, there was a movie too coming out. There could be. No, with the writing on it. What's Her Face is playing Batgirl, Catwoman.

Oh, Catwoman. Catwoman. Zoe Kravitz is playing Catwoman, which I cannot believe. Oh, it's gonna be amazing. Oh yeah, she's gonna be amazing. She's great. And what's the show she's in right now? The, with all the female... Is it.

Orange is the New Black?

No, what's the one with the Reese.

With her spoon and... Oh, Big Little Lies. That's a great show.

Yeah, I haven't seen the second season.

I just started it. Don't look at me like that. I know.

I haven't finished it.

I finished it.

Meryl Streep's in it.

I gotta watch it. She's incredible.

I know.

Yeah, but I really like Zoe from that... She's incredible. I can't wait to see her cow. Catwoman.

When is that coming out?

I guess it's next year with who? The new Batman and everything, you know.

Who's the new Batman?

Oh, it's Robert Pattinson.

He's Batman?

You don't know these things? I don't know these things. I got blank. I thought you, no, he, he's gonna be great. Wait, Robert Pattinson from Twilight. Twilight. He's an amazing actor. He's gonna be so much better than Ben Affleck. Oh, my God.

Ben Affleck was the worst.

I would rather see George Clooney as Batman any day of the week.

But who was the one before?

Michael Keaton, amazing.

No, after.

Christian Bale was great.

Christian Bale was unbelievable.

I know, but I think- Dark Knight's gonna be amazing. Dark Knight?

Yes.

You can't beat that. Agreed, but- It's unbelievable. Agreed, but- Soundtrack?

Oh my gosh. Anne Hathaway is not gonna be as good as Zoe. I mean, she's incredible.

Catwoman, she'll be a better, she'll be.

A good Catwoman, but- She's gonna be great. Wow, Batman.

So there's gonna be a new Batman?

Oh boy, you're behind the times, man. You're doing too much. I need to email your Janice, or whoever your assistant is, and get connected to you so we can find this out.

It's gonna be next year, you'll be fine.

Okay, cool. Well, Felicia, I wanna acknowledge you for a moment before I ask you the final question. I wanna acknowledge. There's more? Okay. There's one more question, but I wanna acknowledge you for your creative weirdness in the world because I think a lot of people are afraid to be weird and express their weirdness and to continue to put that out there. And the fact that you are courageous enough to talk about the depression, the anxiety, the stresses, the challenges of being a mom, and having the ups and downs of this creative world and the Hollywood world, which is even more pressure. It's really inspiring. So I acknowledge you for showing up, for being consistent, even when it's hormonal and weird and you're not doing what you think you should be doing, but it's really inspiring. Thank you very much.

I appreciate that. I acknowledge you for that.

I'm going to acknowledge you for being a good interviewer. I appreciate it. I'll take it.

Yeah.

The final question is, what's your definition of greatness?

Oh, wow. Feeling full in your heart like you ate a really big hamburger.

Feeling full in your heart like you.

Ate a really big hamburger.

Did I see you post something recently about eating a hamburger?

No, maybe. My baby will not eat anything but hamburger and fries.

Wow.

It's not good. She's fine.

That's great.

She'll be fine.

So the feeling of eating a big hamburger and having that fullness now.

Do you know that feeling?

When you go to IN-N-Out and And.

You freaking eat it. Yeah, but you've made something, and in your heart, you know you've done something good. You just feel so full. You're just like, ah, I want to snuggle, you know? Mm. I want to snuggle. It's not the most articulate thing I've.

Ever said, but I think we have.

Our par for the interview.

This is great.

Embrace your weird.

Check the book out, Felicia. Thank you very much.

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