965 Sadhguru on Creating Happiness & Ending Personal Suffering

This is episode number 965 with Yogi, Mystic and Visionary, Sud Guru. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. The great poet Rumi said, you, are not a drop in the ocean, you are the entire ocean in a drop. And author Paulo Coelho said, Tell your heart that the fear of suffering is worse than suffering itself. Welcome to this episode. I could have spoken to my guest today, the visionary Sadhguru, for hours. Honestly, this was one of the most enlightening conversations I've had in a while. And for those of you that don't know Sadhguru, he's a Yogi and a Mystic, a meditation guide and a spiritual healer, a New York Times bestselling author, and one of India's 50 most influential people due to his transformational programs like Inner Engineering. Sadhguru is dedicated to the physical, mental and spiritual well-being of humanity and gifted with utter clarity of perception. But what I love about him is that he doesn't shy away from the real world. He embraces it. And in this interview, we discuss why people seem to experience so much individual suffering and what we can do to eliminate it. We talk about how to return to a joyful state of our childhood, why mindfulness is the wrong way to think about meditation, the difference between enlightenment and wisdom, how to stop getting so angry regardless of any situation, and why he only needs three hours of sleep to function at the highest level. Get ready for a powerful conversation that is truly mind opening. And if you're a fan of the School of Greatness, please take a moment to leave a five star review on this podcast if you haven't yet. We want to be able to serve as many people as possible with inspiring, life changing content like today's interview. So without further ado, let me introduce to you the one, the only, Sadhguru. Welcome everyone to the School of Greatness Podcast. I'm super honored and grateful to have Sadhguru in the house virtually. Thank you so much for being here. I appreciate it. We were just talking about how we have similar lives crossing from across the world. You've been to my home state many times in Ohio and Columbus. You're a big fan of aviation. I've been near your city as well. I've been to Chennai in India. Actually a few years ago I went to study meditation. in India and became, I guess, a meditation instructor. I don't know how much you consider it since I only went for a few weeks to practice, but I have in my path of learning and educating myself on how to master the inner engineering that we all have. I'm super grateful for you because you continue to stand for peace, you continue to stand for awakening consciousness, and for living a better life. And I love the fact that you are a symbol of childlike energy in the world. Fun, play, and joy.

Why aren't adults fun? What happened to them?

Exactly. I love that. Adults, as you know, get caught up in a lot of things that aren't their true nature. And why is that? Why is that do you think that we forget how to play and think like a child? when we grow up.

See, people have forgotten that in this vast cosmos where we don't know where is the beginning, where is the end, in the middle of nowhere on a tiny little mud ball called Earth, you and me are sitting long distance and talking right now, okay? So, and for the kind of creatures we are, we are not even a speck of dust in this universe. But we have an individual experience. This is the magnanimity of creation that it's given as an individual experience, though we are nothing. Tomorrow if the whole humanity operates, nobody will miss us in this cosmos, that's how small we are. But we have an individual experience. So this individual experience, human beings have taken it rather too seriously as if they are the beginning and end of the world.

The center of the world, yeah.

Yes, they thought they are the center of the universe. So this misunderstanding makes them believe as they grow up or as they degenerate, I would say. They don't really grow up because at the age of five, if you are so joyful and energetic, by the time you are thirty, you should be ecstatic and bursting. But if the reverse has happened, this is degeneration of life. So this degeneration happens because people take their individual existence rather too seriously. They don't understand before you and me came here, countless number of people who thought they were smart and they were strong and they were beautiful and they were wonderful, they are all topsoil now. Countless number of people. And you and me also will be one day, unless our friends to... our friends choose to bury us really deep, fearing that we may raise from the dead or something. So, we have taken our individual existence too seriously. Because of this, life has taken a backseat. Our physical structure has taken front seat, our psychological structures have, you know, gone to the stratosphere, but the life that we are is somewhere which is not even in most people's experience. So this is the whole problem. When you are a child, you are just a piece of life. Slowly you took your personality so seriously, you took your boundaries of your form so seriously that you think this is it. So till death knocks on their door, they don't realize that this is not it.

And, you know, I've learned that in some cultures they focus on death multiple times a day to bring them back to that moment of this is the only time we have, make the most of this moment, don't take things too seriously. Do you focus on death a lot throughout your days or, Is that not something you think about?

I live death all the time.

You're on a motorcycle.

Not just that, motorcycle I live. Yeah. Just now, if you do not know this, I just released a book on death.

Really?

Do you know this? Yeah, it's a bestseller in India right now.

Wow. Is it here in the USA yet? I gotta get a copy.

We will send you a copy, but it's not in India. Because USA we are releasing another book, so this has been stalled.

Okay.

In US we are releasing a book on karma.

Perfect. I did both.

So the book is about it is only for those who shall die. That's how it is titled, Death, a book for only those who shall die. Because most people think other people die. They don't realize we die. They do not See, death essentially means it reminds us that we have a limited amount of time and energy to live. Nobody has unlimited time or unlimited energy. If one is constantly conscious of this, prioritize that life in much better way than the way they're doing it right now. This is the fundamental death does not mean something else, not some terrible thing. Death simply means it is clearly reminding you, you have a limited lease of time and energy. that means you need to organize your time and energy to what is most valuable for you, not do one more thing that is not necessary for yourself or anybody around you. And because people think they are forever, they are in some restlessness all the time. I think they just put up a poem which I wrote three-four days ago, it's called Life. The most restless ones rest so well, when life is taken out of them. As if the only curse was life.

Wow. What does that mean to rest so well? You mean sleep so well or live so well that you feel restful?

Even in sleep they're rolling all over the place.

They're not sleeping well, yes.

No, no. They need to either drink or pop a pill to sleep most of them.

So how do we get to a restful place? Is it more about our thoughts? Is it more about our heart, our soul, our karma, our physical body? What's the place to start for rest?

See, right now people, generally people's understanding is the rest means sleep. Wakefulness means something is happening. No, you have to make your wakefulness also restful. It is just like if you have an automobile, who's running at a very high RPM all the time, it'll naturally wear itself out. So it's important that you run cool. So if you run at... running at a easy pace, your efficiency will go up, your ability to do things will go up, your competence will go up in everything. Above all, the number of hours that you sleep will go down dramatically. See, for most people who are practicing inner engineering practices, their pulse rate is somewhere between 45 to 65.

Really?

Many of them, yes, yes, many of them below 45, between 35 to 45 also in sitting states, in restful states. So once your system is going at such an ease, then the need for rest will come down. There was a time, not anymore, I'm becoming little old and lazy these days. So there was a time, Three days and three nights if I don't sleep, I will still be perfectly normal, still doing all my activity. Whole night I will drive, next day whole day I will teach, whole night I will drive and again I will teach like this. These days I can do one night, next day I will need to rest.

Right, right. You take naps throughout the day now, yeah.

No, no, no, no nap.

I'm joking.

For almost twenty-five years, more than twenty-five years, My average sleep time was only two and a half hours. Wow. Today I'm sleeping between three and a half to four and a half hours.

You're getting lazy.

You're getting lazy.

Wow. Yeah, I think I did a five mile run yesterday and my average heart rate was over 165. So I wonder if I can do it. Now I'm pushing it pretty hard on my run. So I wonder, is there a way to work out hard and keep the heart rate lower than normal still, even while you're pushing and pumping so much blood.

The important thing is, see how easily oxygen and nutrients are distributed to the cellular level. That will determine. See, this has not been... Generally they are not thinking on these lines. They are always thinking about increasing the lung capacity. Yes, that is also important. But the important thing is, with how much ease the nutrients and oxygen get to the cellular level, accordingly your pulmonary system will function. But it's not only about the heart rate. Even at the cellular level with how much stress or how much ease it's going, this can be determined. We have what is called as a cobra test for people. Would you like to go through cobra test?

You've been getting bit by a cobra?

No, no, no. If it doesn't bite you, then it proves something. See, Most of the venomous creatures are like this, particularly cobras. In the wild, if you just go and pick up a cobra like that, he will simply come, not holding his head or anything, simply in the middle of the body. Simply he will come effortlessly in your hands without any reaction, because he is only sensing your chemistry. If you show little anxiety, if you show even a little bit of anxiety, he will go for you. If you don't show any, he is very comfortable with you because he senses everything. His safety and his danger only by the chemistry of your body. So, this is a cobra test. People say, I claim they are very meritorious. We say, okay, let's do the cobra test.

Do you do that test with people?

We can check you out, 165.

I love your... I'm really enjoying your inner engineering course right now. I've been going through it and I'm really enjoying it.

Okay.

You have a quote, I think I'm going to get the quote correct, I believe I wrote it down, where you said, Only what you perceive, you know. The rest is imagination. And you were talking about that in the context of what we learn in school. You were giving this example of, you know, we only really have 50% of our time available because the other 50% is with our faculties and with sleep. And for many years we learned things, the content that we only use one percent is what I remember you saying. What do you mean by this? Only what you perceive, you know the rest is imagination.

Perception happens to you in five different dimensions. Seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching. This is how you're perceiving life. This data has gathered within you. Only because this data has gathered within you, now you are able to walk on a round planet which spins. It's not a small thing. It is not a small thing that you are able to walk on a spinning round ball. Because all this data has gathered through five senses, it is not intellectual information, but it is a perceptual information. If this information is not there, you won't be able to walk actually. you will not be able to walk straight. This is what is happening for people when some people lose their memory and things like that. Suddenly they become unstable in their body because some of the data is gotten disconnected with their system. So this data that you perceive is most important. That's what a child is all the time drinking up everything. You see how the child is looking at everything because he wants to drink up as much data as possible. Because instinctively he knows without that data, he will not be able to function. So how attentive you are, how attentive your eyes are, how attentive your ears, nose, tongue and touch is, accordingly you have that much usable information. So why one person is more efficient while you are an athlete? Why one person is able to catch a damn ball, another person can't catch the damn thing? Why is it? Because that level of attention of exactly how that ball will behave, how you can anticipate where it will go, this is not there. Intellectually suppose you have a PhD in football, you think you can play football?

If you have a PhD, I... No, I think you need to experience it as well if you just study it only, yeah.

No, that is not experience, it's perception. You are watching it. Out of your keen interest you are watching exactly how a ball moves. You may not be thinking the physics of it but you are watching it and perceiving it. Because of that perception you know something that you cannot know by reading 100 books about it.

That's true. You've got to experience life.

Of course.

You've got to experience life.

That's the only reason we are here. To experience life as profoundly as possible.

Absolutely. What do you think is missing in the world the most right now, especially here in America? There's a lot of, you know, we have corona and then people feel like they're suffering, they're angry, they feel unjust with a lot of different things that are happening. What is missing in the world?

See, talking about those situations in America, America has an unfortunately very cruel history. Whether it concerns the Native Americans or the African Americans today, there's a very cruel history. By trying to put it under the carpet, it'll keep popping up. We have to come to terms with it. Everybody has to come to terms with it. Some remorse, some settlement must happen. I think that expression of remorse has not happened. so it keeps popping up. Well, this one policeman's inhuman act is not the real thing. The real thing is it's there in the air because whatever has happened in the past, certain number of people have resentment about it. And another set of people somewhere, maybe not exactly for me, maybe it may be wrong for me to say this, but somewhere they think that's a natural... natural order of life. that's how it was supposed to be. Somebody had to die, somebody has to be a slave, that is how it is supposed to be. That must go. We must understand historically every one of us have made mistakes. We must bow down to our own mistakes and say, We are sorry for this, let's see how to create a new nation, a new world. This much sincerity and humility should come in every human being, otherwise one set of people are resentful, another set of people think they deserve it, then how will this go?

Yeah. Do you feel talking about mistakes of the past? I've made a lot of mistakes in my past personally and just different ways from my business to relationships to family dynamics, a lot of different things. And I'm constantly trying to learn to be better every day. Do you feel like you've made a lot of mistakes in the past that maybe regret or you think to yourself, oh, that was pretty That was pretty stupid of me to do. Or have you always been this enlightened?

I don't know, I never looked at life as a series of mistakes, learning from that. I don't look at life like that. Well, have you done made some dumb decisions here and there of course, but I wouldn't see them as mistakes, I just see them as part of growing up. and becoming more mature because enlightenment is one thing, you see things clearly but still operating in the world you need wisdom. Wisdom you have to earn it with experience, there is simply no other way for that.

So you must stumble and fall and learn and grow and just go through life.

Not necessarily, I would not say it is necessarily so because today it has become fashionable with all these management gurus and all saying, you must learn from your mistakes, you must learn from mistakes. That means you must keep on doing mistakes. I don't believe that you must learn from your mistakes. I would rather live a life where I don't do any mistakes. Because life is so brief, you do a bunch of mistakes and then you will learn and where will you use it in the grave? Too late.

So, learn from other people's mistakes. Yeah.

Yes, of course. That is what being human means, that we can learn from other people's experience, from history we can learn. We don't have to do all those things once again. And especially you are from the aviation state, if you are trying aviation or if you're trying skydiving or something, if you don't do things right the first time, well, that'll be the last time.

People talk about suffering a lot. And I know you address this in your training, in your course and a lot of your social media content and you get interviewed on this a lot. When I went to India to study meditation for my brief time, my beginner mind of meditation, I was told that suffering is the obsessive self-centric thinking that we have about ourselves, the obsessive self-centric thinking. And when we focus on ourselves, then we suffer. I don't know how accurate that is in your mind or in your practice and philosophy, but what is suffering and why do we have it so much?

See, there are two faculties in a human being which are unique to human beings only. No other creatures have these faculties. This is a very vivid sense of memory and a fantastic sense of imagination. So what is it that human beings are suffering? Just check out with any suffering human being, they are suffering what happened five years ago, ten years ago. or they are suffering what may happen day after tomorrow already. So essentially they are suffering their memory and their imagination. Rarely they are in life, they are just suffering these two fantastic faculties which make us human. Our life is rich only because our memory is so vivid. Otherwise we would also be like an earthworm. Essentially what they are complaining is, they are complaining why did nature evolve us into this? fantastic place of being human being, we would have been happy being earthworms because our only intention is to be eco-friendly right now. Earthworms are very eco-friendly, they are very peaceful, but the possibility is only that much. With the possibility, human being is a tremendous possibility. If you do not know how to harness this possibility, Every possibility will become a problem. That's all that's happened. If you do not harness your faculties the way you should, then it becomes a problem. How come this has happened to us? Well, your name sounds French, I don't know. And you went to Pondicherry. You French background?

Not that I'm aware of, I don't think so. English and Welsh and Italian.

Okay, but your name sounds French.

Lewis Howes, yeah, I'm not sure.

Okay. But you went to Pondicherry which is a French place.

Yes, I did. Yes.

Anyway, now that you said English, anyway, an Englishman called Charles Darwin, you heard of that guy?

Of course.

You have no problem with him in Ohio because we come from Tennessee, we are in Tennessee, that's why I'm telling you. So Charles Darwin said something like this. I'm simplifying it, over simplifying it. But something like this, a goat could have become a giraffe over a million year time. A pig could have become an elephant over many more million years. But a monkey became a man rather too quickly. Hmm. So quickly that anthropologists are looking for a missing link which they have not found. Actual difference, the DNA difference between a chimpanzee and a human being is only 1.23%. 1.23% is not too much of a difference, isn't it? So physiologically, physiologically that's how close we are to a chimpanzee. But in terms of our intelligence and awareness, we are worlds apart from a chimpanzee. So right now what human beings are suffering is their own intelligence. You remove half their brain, They will be very peaceful. No meditation will be needed for them. They will simply sit. Peaceful.

Just be, yeah, exactly.

Yes, just be because that's what the whole American spirituality is just talking about, just be, just be. If you remove half the brain, you'll just be. That's what a whole lot of people are trying to do, by soaking their brains in alcohol, maybe they're preserving it for some other place. or drugging themselves out, they're just being, all right? That is not the way to explore human possibility. If human possibility has to be explored, all our faculties must be full on and we must see how to further enhance them because the profoundness of experience comes to you only with sharpness of perception. You cannot dull your perception and think you are having a profound experience.

So how do we maximize or expand our perception?

See, it's like this. Because as human beings, we knew that only enhancement of our perception, our life will become better. We wanted to see what is up there, our eyes could not see. So we made a telescope. We want to see the virus, so we made a microscope. We want to hear what is happening somewhere else, so we made a telephone, we made a microphone, see you and me talking. literally twelve hours across the planet, all right? Why all these technologies we made? We want to enhance our perception, isn't it? Yeah. So right now, this is a bunch of youth, you know, all these youth events below twenty-five events, I get invited because they think I'm twenty-five.

You have the curiosity of a child, that's why they bring you.

So they were asking me, Sadhguru, you have so much influence in the government, why can't you make marijuana legal for us? So this is over ten, fifteen thousand people in Bangalore city and it's a open air thing, I can smell the smoke. They all gathered and they sang, why don't you make it legal for us? I said, why this marijuana? We will make cocaine also legal, meth also legal, whatever else you name it, I will make all that legal for you. But why do you want it wanted this to be legal? Because you want to smoke dope and go to the university, isn't it? Yes, they said, why not? We are fine with that. I said, See, we'll do one thing, I'll get you a small plane and the pilot comes. really smoked up. Do you want to fly with him? Ahh... like this. Then I said, you,'re not getting it. You need a major surgery. The surgeon comes really smoked up. You want the surgery? They said, no. So you understand by smoking these things or drinking these things, whatever, your faculties go down. Lowered faculties will mean less efficiency of life, not only in terms of work, in terms of experience also. It means less life. So, you want to be high, but you are going low and you're thinking you're high. If you want to be high, you come to me, I will show you how to tune up all your faculties to such a level that you will be bright and alert all the time. Joyful, blissful, ecstatic look at my eyes, I am always toned. Without any substance. Right. Because this is the most complex and sophisticated chemical factory on the planet. The question is only, are you a great CEO or a lousy CEO? That's all determines the nature of your experience. So I don't want to give a philosophical explanation to human suffering. Human suffering is essentially that they have an intelligence for which they don't have a stable enough platform. So they don't know how to handle their own intelligence. You can call it tension, stress, anxiety, misery, whatever. Essentially, your intelligence has turned against you. That is all it is.

So much to unpack here. So when we have emotions, thoughts, feelings, emotions of anger, resentment from something that happened in the past, upset that we see on social media, Frustrations in the world, where should we be redirecting these thoughts, feelings and emotions? Should we be feeling them and allowing ourselves to go with anger until it stops? Should we be guarding our thoughts with the reverse of that? What's your ideas on thoughts and feeling and emotions?

You must punch a window pane or a wall better. A stone wall is good.

You'll feel it, boy, yeah, exactly.

Because that is the model that the Hollywood and the television shows, everything is setting up. When you get angry, you break something, all right?

Exactly.

So, see, first of all, people are assuming that anger is happening to them or misery is happening to them. No, this is exactly what I said earlier, maybe I didn't articulate it fully. No, you are creating anger, you are creating misery, you are creating joy, you are creating whatever. All this is happening from within you. Is it true all human experience is happening from within us?

Yeah, because we perceive something and then we... No, no.

Something else may stimulate. But human experience is happening from within us, isn't it? Whether it's love or hate or anger or misery or joy or anything is only happening from within us. The simple question I am asking is, what happens from within you? Should it happen your way or somebody else's way?

It should happen your way.

Of course, because the world will never happen your way hundred percent. Because there are so many stakeholders in the world, little bit will happen my way, little bit your way, that is fine. But what happens within me must happen my way. If what happens within me does not happen my way, this is the worst form of slavery, isn't it?

Wow.

Somebody decides what happens within me, somebody decides where I should sit, this is slavery, everybody understands this. Now somebody decides whether I am happy or unhappy, isn't this the worst form of slavery?

Yeah.

So this is the liberation that humanity needs to work at. This is what inner engineering means. Inner engineering is not some mechanical process because engineering means this essentially. You will say something is well engineered only if it works the way you want, isn't it? If this one doesn't work the way you want, what the hell are you expecting other things to work the way you want? It's just an accident. When you live accidentally, anxiety is normal.

Yes, it's every day. But when you're living on purpose and intentionally and mindfully, you should be able to shift out of that.

No, no, no, no. I wouldn't use those words.

Okay, what words would you use?

When you say purpose, intention, mindful. See, this is the whole problem with people. Their mind is full all the time.

Right.

My mind is just empty all the time. Nothing. happening, nothing. That's why I wear a turban just to make it substantial. There's nothing in my head. If I'm walking there, I'm just walking, nothing happens. Because see right now, your hands are there. Suppose your one hand starts jumping like this, huh? Or if let's say my hand starts jumping like this, what will you think? You think Sadhguru has some kind of a...

I just... that's the way intelligent people do things, you know?

No, no. Suppose my hand starts jumping like that, you will think there is some ailment, isn't it? You will think, maybe Mr. Parkinson's is visiting me or something like that.

Sure.

So, your mind is jumping all over the place. Why is that not ailment, I am asking? Your only comfort is other people cannot see it. Isn't it?

Yeah, I guess they see it through the manifestation of you being anxious or tense or stressed or angry or...

Whether they see it or not, they see it or not. If any part of you is simply jumping without purpose, is that an ailment I'm asking?

If any part of you is jumping without purpose, is it an ailment? Well, I think in your inner engineering course, you talk about how we have certain faculties that we can't control, like going to the bathroom and doing certain things that are part of our body. So, yeah, but... I don't know if that's a trick question or not.

No, no, the pee is just filling up in the bladder. It's not jumping all over the place.

Gotcha, gotcha.

If it jumps all over the place, that is an ailment.

That's an ailment, yes, correct.

Right now, suppose, let me take a worse example. Suppose your hand starts beating you in the face.

That's an ailment, yes.

For sure. So right now your thoughts and emotions are beating you up from inside. Why is that not an ailment, I am saying?

No it is.

So let us not think anger happens to us, resentment happens to us. No, these things we are creating. We have the power to emote. We can make it love, we can make it joy, we can make it ecstasy, but people have chosen to make it tension, anger, resentment, hatred. They have turned it that way. Now they will claim this is because life has been unfair to me. Life has not been fair to anybody. Especially not me. Life is not fair to anybody. Life is simply rolling, it's for you to learn to ride it. Sometimes we are in uncomfortable situations, sometimes we are in comfortable situations. Sometimes we are in situations where we know exactly what to do. In sometimes we are in situations where we don't know what to do, sometimes somebody else is controlling the situation, sometimes you are controlling the situation, this is how life is. If you are constantly stepping into unfamiliar situations in your life, that means you are growing at a rapid pace. If you are in constantly in comfortable situations, that means you are a stagnant life. So if you look for comfort, if you look for a comfort zone, because the moment your thoughts and emotions are going to torment you with external stimulant, external stimulation that happens, what will you choose? You will choose a comfort zone. This means you will limit your life. So the moment somebody can cause you pain or suffering, this means unknowingly you will make the very scope of your life very limited. Only when a person loses this fear of suffering that no matter what happens, this is how I will be. If this assurance comes to you, then you walk full stride because whatever happens in the life around you, it will not really make you suffer. Once you are free from suffering, only when you are free from suffering, when you are free from the fear of suffering, that is when you will explore your life in full depth and dimension.

How do we rid ourselves of the fear of suffering then?

See, as I told you, the suffering is happening because your faculties are not held in your hands. If I have to go to this in little detail, I will have to take a few minutes. See, for example, if I ask you a simple question, Do you want your intellect to be sharp or blunt? What is your choice?

Sharp.

Sharp of course. So you understand, your intellect is the better... the sharper it is, the better it is, it's like a knife. So if it's like a knife, it's a cutting instrument. So if you give anything to your intellect, it will dissect everything and see, this is the nature of our intellect. You don't have to physically dissect, but it dissects everything and sees, what is this, what is that? This is the nature of the intellect. Without dissection, it doesn't know because It is a knife, it's like a scalpel. It must be sharp. A knife that is not sharp is no good knife, isn't it?

Right. Good for butter.

Yeah, that also depends. If it just comes out of the refrigerator, even that it won't cut. So, if you are using a knife to do everything, to do everything, let's say you eat with a knife, you brush with your knife, and you do everything with your knife, of course you will be bleeding. That's all that's happening. Only one dimension of intelligence within us. In yogic way of looking at things, we look at mind as sixteen parts. This intellect is just one part. Because our education systems are such, which are totally intellect oriented, human beings largely are using only one dimension of their intellect to do everything. You use a knife to stitch your clothes. What will you wear, only tatters? See, that's what you are seeing in Los Angeles right now. Half the people are wearing tattered clothes. Maybe they used a knife to stitch their jeans.

Exactly. With holes in it, yes.

So if you use a knife to stitch, that's what will happen, all tatters. Right now human life is in tatters, mainly because of this. Instead of using a needle, you're using a knife. So intellect is a very good instrument of survival. If you want to survive on this planet, you need a sharp intellect. The sharper it is, the better you will survive. But that will not make life, that will not put everything together. Right now, because through intellectual process, people are trying to handle everything with so much care, they're trying to do everything right, right, right, right. and a blunder. The result is a blunder. Everything right, but the end result is a big blunder because you're using a knife to do everything.

When was the last time that you felt anger or resentment and actually expressed it?

I was just thinking of getting angry with you just now.

Perfect. Bring it.

The thing is, Louis, I. I did not give this privilege to anybody. that somebody can make me happy, somebody can make me unhappy, somebody can make me angry, somebody can make me miserable. I have not given that privilege to anybody. It's not that I am incapable of all these things. If I want, I can be all those things.

Right.

But I have not given this privilege to anybody. They can't do something to me and make me angry. No. I have not given that privilege to anyone.

Did you have that experience or give that privilege to someone when you were younger? Did you learn that at a certain point where you transitioned?

Till I was 23-24 years of age, from the age of probably 11-12, I was always 24 hours angry.

Really?

Yes. Because I was on this binge of what is justice and injustice. So once you start looking what is justice and injustice, just about everything in the world looks unjust.

Everything makes you angry.

Small, small thing.

Yeah.

Yeah, everything, anything unjust means it makes me angry. And everywhere I see, whether at home, in school, on the street, in the society, in the country, in the world, wherever I see, I think this is unjust, this is unjust, this is unjust, so much injustice, always angry. Right.

I mean, I feel like there's a lot, there's a lot of people in the, in America and in the world who a lot of things make them angry and there's a lot of injustice for people. When did you shift and how did you come to that realization that this no longer works for you in your life?

See, it doesn't work for anybody.

That's true.

Not just for me.

But for you personally, when did you realize?

The reason why people think anger is some kind of a virtue because they say righteous anger, all right? Right now America is seething with anger and they think it's righteous anger. This is simply because it takes some horrible thing to stimulate them into action. There's not enough love in your heart to stimulate yourself into action. Something has to poke you, you must get angry and then it propels you into action. So that kind of action sometimes will produce results, of course. But if you want genuine results which will be good for everybody, we must do it when everything is right, but when everything is little comfortable, Nobody does anything. When something horrible happens, then we will get angry and propel ourselves into action. Right now, this propelling yourself into action with anger, how long will you keep it up? You cannot keep it up forever.

I don't know how long. Yeah, you get tired.

Yes. If you keep it up forever, you will destroy yourself and you will destroy everything around yourself. So anger is become valuable because most people are so lethargic in their responses. Once in a way when they get angry, they feel empowered and seem to be doing right things once in a way. You must be doing those right things all your life. Then by the end of your life, everything might not have changed but you would have made a difference. That's the way the world works.

So how... Man, So if people are lethargic and comfortable a lot of the times and they're unwilling to choose love and act with love to make a change, how do we get people to wake up when things are calmer so that they can act with love and get the change in the results they want?

See today, this whole movement, what you're seeing as Inner Engineering is a movement from religion to responsibility in a way. Essentially what I mean is, religion means people are thinking responsibility is somewhere up there. Where is that up? Nobody knows, all right? You just have to believe where is that up. But now you are sitting in California, I'm here in Tamil Nadu. If I look up, I'm looking at looking up in one direction, If you look up, you are looking up in another direction. So my up is different, your up is different and by tomorrow morning again my up will be yours, your up will be mine. It will be big confusion. The damn planet is spinning and it's round. Which way is up? Does anybody know which way is up in this universe? Is it marked somewhere in the cosmos? This side up. There is no such thing. So responsibility is up there. No, no, no, it must come here. We must understand, if we want to live in a wonderful world, it's only us and us and us who can make this happen. No other force from anywhere is going to make this happen. Unless we realize and transform ourselves from religion to responsibility, that it's here, what this whole thing has come up is See, because we have no explanation for creation. Before you and me came, so much creation has happened. Who did it? A simplistic, childish understanding of this is a big man must have done it. So he is somewhere up there, because you can't see him here, he must be up there. Now of course women are claiming, why not it be a woman? In India we sorted these problems out. There are... we have man gods, we have woman gods, we have snake god, we have cow god, we have elephant god, we have every kind crawling ones sleeping ones, flying ones because we foresaw all the future problems that may happen. You don't know who will claim what tomorrow. So we said everything is God. So what I am saying is our idea of God has essentially come because we have no explanation for creation. How did all this happen? Such a complex, fantastic stuff. Who did it? Because we are human, we think it must be a big human being. Suppose you and me were buffaloes, having conversation right now. We would definitely think God is a huge buffalo, isn't it? Nobody could argue with us about that. We would definitely say he's a huge buffalo because that would be our imagination. Right now, this is our imagination. It's fine. If you are using it to settle a few things, if you are using it as a way of a psychological process, fine. But solace is one thing, solutions for life is a different thing. So, one first thing that we must decide is, those who are in extreme states of poverty, war, other kinds of misery imposed upon them, only for them you must give solace. Rest of us who have eaten our breakfast today morning or dinner, we should talk about solution, not solace. Solace is just a psychological process to settle something within you. But why? People who have eaten well, people who are healthy, people who have a life to live, why are they psychological problem? They should not have any psychological problem, that's all I'm saying. I know this will be very cruel for a lot of people, but they better get it because life is brief. If they don't get it now and they think being psychologically disturbed is normal, they will spend their life like this, it is not normal. To be healthy is normal. To be balanced is normal. To be joyful is normal. Look at yourself when you were five years of age. Were you miserable or joyful? And if somebody had to make you take the joy out of you by poking you with something, otherwise joy wouldn't go, you would be bouncing all over the place, isn't it? Today somebody has to make you happy, somebody has to work hard to make you happy. At that time somebody had to work hard to make you miserable. Today somebody has to make you work hard to make you happy. The whole equation has gotten reversed. What is it? What is it that happened to you? You just grew up. If you grew up, life should become better when you grow up, isn't it? All other life, you see a little plant when it grows up into a tree, does it become better or worse?

It becomes better.

It becomes better. Everything becomes better. Only human beings are saying, oh childhood was so fantastic, my adulthood is misery. Why? this must be the best time. Old age must be the most fantastic time.

But I'm hearing, what I'm hearing you say is we've allowed our inner engineering to be broken and we allow it to stay broken with our thoughts and our emotions and our feelings and we don't take care of it.

See, as a society, as a culture, as a generation of people, we have not given enough significance to the life that we are. Our whole business, you ask any child today, He knows where that Galaxy Z163 is, all right? Because he's seen it on the phone screen. But he doesn't know a damn thing about himself. You do not know the fundamental mechanics of how you function. For example, let me put this in a very simple way. Right now I will give you a simple exercise. Next ten seconds, you should not think about a monkey. Do not think about a monkey. Do not think about a monkey, that's what I'm saying. Only monkeys, isn't it? So to this mind, this is the nature of your mind. If you say, Do not something, only that will happen, that's the nature of your mind. To this mind, somebody told you, what is good, what is bad. Do not think about bad things. Well, that's a full-time job. I'm saying you have not understood the simple most fundamental mechanics of human mind. This doesn't need any enlightenment. If anybody sits with two minutes eyes closed, they will realize that in this mind there is no subtraction and division, there's only addition and multiplication. Whatever you try to do, only more will happen. There are no brakes on it, all three pedals are throttle.

I wish we could go for another six hours but I want to be respectful of your time and I have many, many questions that I know I'll always want to ask and continue to learn and improve in my life and I know my audience will want to ask as well. But I want to be respectful of time and finish with a few questions. This is called the three truths. I ask this question to every guest that I have on at the end. It's a hypothetical question.

There's only one, huh?

Okay, perfect. Well, here's the question if you can share with yours if it's one or three. Imagine you have lived your life fully and you've gone off to do everything you want to do. You've lived many more years, but eventually you must go, your body must go. And for whatever reason, Sadhguru, you have to take all of your teachings, your books, your videos, this interview with you when you pass, for whatever reason, hypothetical. And you get to, before you go, write down three things you know to be true about all of your life experience, about lessons, about what you'd want to share with the world that we would all have access to and this is all we would have access to from your wisdom. What would you say are those three things for you? And maybe it's only one thing, but what would you say are your three truths?

Well, I'm anyway planning to do that. What you said, take all the books and videos and everything. Because all the idiots around me, if they don't get the point when I'm alive, they're not going to get it after I'm gone.

There you go. So.

Books and videos are only inspirational, that will never convey truth. It will only inspire them to seek. So that seeking, I clearly know that I have instilled in millions of people, that seeking will live on. It doesn't take books and videos and stuff, it'll anyway live on because the seeking is not about me, the seeking is the fundamental nature of every human being. the fundamental intelligence within the human being essentially seeks. So the seeking is destroyed by making them believe something all the time along the way, this is right, that is wrong, that is God, this is devil like this. Beliefs and beliefs and beliefs and you block the seeking. So my whole work has been to unblock those blocks so that people become seekers. So if they have become seekers, they will anyway continue to seek. if they haven't, well, all the best for them. What can I do?

Okay, so is that. Is that one truth then? Become a seeker.

We can explore all the other.

Okay, perfect. Perfect.

Different doors to the same building.

Different doors to the same building. Got it. I want to. I want to encourage everyone to get in your engineering, because as I'm going through right now, I'm really enjoying the philosophy that you're sharing. With everyone, where can we go to get access to this and and follow you on social media? I've got a couple questions left for you, but I want to make sure everyone goes and gets access to this because there's a way for them to continue.

One thing is right now, if you are if you are a frontline worker working for the COVID virus, then it's offered free to everybody. Otherwise, it's offered at half price because of the virus situation. So millions of people are making use of it. They should go to innerengineering.com, is it?

Innerengineering.com?

Innerengineering.com, in the United States, that's where it is. So it's available there and they should go through it as quickly as possible. They shouldn't spread it. Let's say seven days, within 15 days if they go through it, it's most impactful. Now in the next few days we are adding an extra bonus eighth session which will come on day four or something. where we're teaching some practices mainly to enhance the immunity of the system. Considering these times, right now we can't be locked down forever. The only way for us to get back, we don't know a damn thing about this virus. I have been looking at every scientific studies, every day hundred-and-twenty-eight new papers are being released scientific papers, that means we don't know anything. Every day little, little, little they're learning. So if you look at it, we don't have a clear statement, this is the nature of this virus, this is what it can do, nobody has said that. So the only instrument that we have is a strong immune system if you have, you know you can pass through this. So as a part of this we're introducing one more extra session which must go in within the next few days, that there will be a series of practices that one can learn in one session which will enhance the immune system here. We have taught to millions of people in rural India, which is making a huge difference.

Yeah, that's powerful. Yeah, I encourage everyone to go get that and we'll have it linked up on the show notes and everything as well. What are three things that you think, three habits that you apply in your life that you think are simple habits everyone should be applying for increased happiness and immunity in general?

These are two things, happiness and immunity. Some people are immune to happiness.

I feel like if you have more happiness, your immune system would be increased as well.

Definitely, if one is exuberant, all systems including the immune system will function better because we should not understand happiness and joy as just a certain type of emotion. Essentially, when your life energies are exuberant, it will naturally bubble out. you don't have to try to be happy, you don't have to be... try to be joyful, this will naturally happen. When your energies are exuberant and effervescent, naturally your immune system will work well. So those two things are different but to... considering the times, I think I should say a few words on the immune system. There are a few simple things that you can do. In India, we have so many herbs and other things in a tropical land that we are using very effectively I must tell you this, where we are right now, we are near in the western part of Tamil Nadu, where you went is the eastern part near the coast. This is the western part of Tamil Nadu. In this region, our volunteers have been active giving a few, you know, a few herbal drinks all around for the police, for the medical personnel and all the whole population, a few million people. And we are also distributing this in various places. Wherever this has been done, In this region of Tamil Nadu, there's not been a single case till now. Though it's rampant in Chennai, there's not a single case here. I cannot claim it's only because of this drink, but this drink has made a huge difference. This drink has nothing to do with the COVID virus, but it has something to do with enhancing your immune system, your system functions better. One simple thing that in United States people can do, If you have a garden, just spend at least one hour barefoot in the garden, put your hands into the earth, do something, just connected to the earth in some way, believe me, your immune system will work very, very well. Lovingly, if you handle soil, you must call it mother soil, not dirt, okay? And you handle it, you will see your immune system will go up. This is something we have completely disregarded. All the time, On whatever, if you are a woman, you are on three or three or six inch heel, if you are a man, you are on a proper boot, never connected to the earth. It's important that you connect to the earth because what you think is your body is just an extension of this earth. You are just a pop-up on this planet. One day you will pop back into the planet, all right? So this is very important, this is a simple thing you can do. If you don't have a garden, volunteer to work in your neighbor's garden, he will also be happy. You will also be healthy. That's one thing. And today I think certain things are available in United States. One simple thing is turmeric. If you mix little bit of turmeric in warm water along with honey and drink it three to five times a day, your immune system will work wonderfully well.

Okay.

These are simple things that you can do. and there are also certain other things may not be available. It should be available in California. You have these gooseberries, raw mangoes, these are all wonderful things for your immune system. This is naturally when people are going into certain states, particularly when women get pregnant, they have an urge to eat certain things. All these things have been identified as things which are extremely good for your immune system because it's a natural urge, instinctive urge in the system to Strengthen the immune system when a woman gets pregnant. This is a natural process which is happening in the... It is intelligence invested in our bodies which may not necessarily get articulated in our minds. Yeah.

Beautiful.

And there is a simple practice which we can give to you, you can put it on your cast, podcast. It's called Simha Kriya. Simha Kriya, it just takes twelve minutes to do it. This will immediately enhance the immune system. I would say within two weeks of practice there will be a significant improvement in the immune system.

Wow.

Now everybody is stepping out from the lockdown. Either you want to go to work or you want to protest, do whatever you want to do, your immune system should be good. It's very important. Wow.

Yeah, we'd love to share that. Do you have a podcast, Sadhguru?

Oh, no, really. I'm all over the place.

The world needs to hear your voice on audio as well. I know you have a big YouTube following in social media, but I'm happy to connect with your team later. to you already have the content, it would transform a lot of people's lives if you choose to do that in the future. So I'm happy to support.

I'll ask our US team to get in touch with you. Please support us in that.

Yes, of course. My final, before I ask my final question, Sadhguru, I wanted to acknowledge you for the incredible gift you are to the world, for the incredible example you set every day for the people around you. Again, I think you explaining that our life should get better the older we get, not have more problems and more challenges and more disease that should improve, it should flourish. We should have fruit hanging from our limbs, essentially. I love the example you set of demonstrating love, peace, childlike joy every single day because that example is rippling into in so many lives. And so I just really acknowledge you for the gift that you are and and all you do to serve humanity in a big way. And my final question for you is what I ask everyone at the end as well is what is your definition of greatness?

We used to print a brochure for inner engineering programs. We would say inner engineering from ordinary to extraordinary. So these are physical programs at that time when I'm doing this after one or two days they would come and ask, Sadhguru, you said something special will happen. What is it? I said, I never said anything special. The brochure says ordinary to extraordinary. I said, Yes, that's what I mean. You will become extraordinary, more ordinary than ordinary people. When you become very ordinary, you just become life. When you just not one mess in your mind trying to be special, you're just ordinary life. because ordinary life is fantastic because there is no greater phenomena than the so-called ordinary life. Everybody is trying to be something other than life. Who are those people that you consider as great people? Only those people who broke the boundaries of limitations of their persona, isn't it? Those who operated within their personal context, you don't call them great, it is only those people who operated beyond that. That means they were not trying to direct their love in some direction, they were not trying to become great first of all, they just allowed their love to direct them. You should never direct your sense of inclusiveness that you have. You'll allow your inclusiveness to direct your actions. Is it right, wrong, is it successful, There are whole lot of self-appointed, you know, advisors around me who keep saying, Sadhguru, for what you have, you could make billions of dollars. You could do this, you could do that, what are you doing? I said, what do I do with billion dollars, huh? I want 7.6 billion people. What do I do with billion dollars? I don't know what to do with it. What will I do with it? Anyway, wherever I go, people feed me, wherever I go, people make sure I stay in good places. Wherever I go, I travel well. So why do I need money? I don't need money because the problem with humanity is, as I said earlier, they have taken their own physical and psychological form too seriously. They have a shape to their body, they have a shape to their mental structure. This is what transformation means. When I said inner engineering tools for transformation, Transform means you destroy the existing form and become a larger form and then you destroy that and become a larger form. Continuous transformation means moving from form to no form kind of state. Anybody who showed or exhibited those aspects in their life, at some point they broke their form and did something beyond that, those are the people that you are recognizing as great. Isn't it? I have no intention of being great. I'm just fooling around.

I love that. Well, hopefully next time you're in Los Angeles, we'll be able to have some food and I'll pay for your meal for you and hopefully when I come to India, we can connect.

You have to pay for my food because every day somebody pays for my food.

I got you.

I don't earn anything.

I got you. Maybe we'll meet up in Dayton someday if you go back to the museum.

Why not? Dayton will be good. It's been years since I went there. I love that.

SadhGuru, thank you so much for your time and for your wisdom.

Thank you, Louis.

I look forward to supporting.

I hope it's been useful for you. Of course. Thank you very much. Catch up somewhere in the US. I don't know when I'll make it. I was just thinking I'll take a.

Boat to United States because airplanes are so unsafe right now. Come on over. Yeah. We'd love to connect, love to have you come back on in the future as well and keep sharing your message and promoting your program. So what you're doing is inspiring.

So thank you. Thank you.

I appreciate it, sir. Have a good one. My friend, thank you so much for taking time today and listening to this episode. If you enjoyed it, please share this with one friend, post it on your social media. You truly have the power to change and impact someone's life today by sending them this powerful message. And please check out our podcast page on the website for Sud Guru's links and all the resources For him, you can go back to lewishouse.com/965 for that. Please connect with me on social media. I'm at lewishouse everywhere. And you can shoot me a text or a question right now to 614-350-3960. Go ahead and shoot me a text and just use the word podcast there when you text me. And you'll be updated for weekly inspirational messages that I send out right there. And of course, if this is your first time here, or if you've been here for years, and you haven't left us a review yet, please go and leave us a review. It takes about two seconds. Click on the review button and leave a few comments about what you enjoyed about this episode or any episodes on the School of Greatness podcast. And I want to leave you with this. Bruce Lee said, Empty your mind. Be formless, shapeless, like water. Now you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a a bottle. It becomes the bottle. You put it in a teapot. It becomes the teapot. Now, water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend. I want to remind you of how much you matter today, how much you are loved, how much I appreciate and love you. And as always, you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.