Discover How ACTIVE LISTENING Can Change Your Life Forever

Welcome back to the School of Greatness. We're going to do something a little bit different today in the feed. We're sharing an episode of a podcast called Real Good by US Bank. Now, every season, the Real Good podcast seeks to tell stories of people putting in the work. And it's a podcast that shows us that while the world is an imperfect place, there are people out there trying to make it better. This podcast is hosted by Emmy-winning journalist Faith Salie. and US Bank's Chief Diversity Officer, Greg Cunningham. Now, in this specific episode, they will discuss the power of listening and how it shapes our identity as a person, something that we talk about so much here on the School of Greatness. And it's always our goal to deliver a positive message through storytelling and listening to impactful guests. This episode drives home the importance of just that. If you like what you hear, please go listen and subscribe to Real Good wherever you get your podcast. Thanks again for listening today. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

This is real Real Good by US Bank, a podcast about helpers. I'm Faith Salie. Today, we're gonna talk about what's at the heart of the show, the act of listening. Listening to people doing good work, listening to people we might not hear from all the time, listening to those affecting positive change for their communities. As your hosts, we try our best to listen to our guests. We stand in for you, the listener, asking questions you might ask to best get to know their history and their work. And we've noticed our guests value the act of listening as well. For many, it's core to their own work and inspiration for what they do. So we've decided in this last episode of the season to look closely at some of the things our guests said about listening. It's educational. Moving. It's empowering. And we'll let you know a little of what we've learned from listening along the way. Greg, I am so glad that I get this time one-on-one with you today at the end of season five, because The journey that we went on this season has been joyful and fascinating and illuminating and hopeful. And I have to be honest that today I feel kind of sad. I feel like we need, I just want to acknowledge what's going on in the world right now as we're recording this. And I think it will still be going on in the world when this episode comes out. And yeah, with the war in Israel and Gaza and the sadness around that. And, you know, we started this whole thing almost four years ago at a time of darkness.

Yeah, and here we are again. And the incredible amount of divisiveness that remains and all of these things just continue to draw divisions between people. That is incredibly sad, but I also felt that this season, what was special to me about this season was just the incredible stories that we got to hear. That's the one thing, if I could put a theme to this year, it was about story.

Yep.

And there were such incredible stories and hopefully there's something in that that we can look back upon. today that gives us some hope and leaves us just feeling a little more hopeful and optimistic.

Do you know, have you ever heard the phrase tikkun olam?

No.

I had not heard it either until a few years ago. You know that my husband is Jewish. I'm not. I was raised Christian. We're raising our kids Jewish, but we celebrate all mom's traditions too. And there is this Hebrew phrase that has come into our lives and, and tikkun olam means repairing of the world or heal the world. And when all of this has been going on, you know, we work to shield our kids from the worst of it and talk about the realities of it. I'm sure families all over the world are figuring out how to talk about these difficult things with their kids. and my 11-year-old son said, Mom, I'm just sad. I just don't feel like there's anything I can do. And I said, I understand that feeling, honey. And remember what we say about Takun Olam, about healing the world, that there are things we must know. We must not only believe, but we must know that every single day, Every single chance to connect with another human being is something within our power. That is to kun alam. And I do, without sounding vain glorious, I do feel like these stories, Greg, like the gift you and I get of asking and listening, every single one of them has to add up to some kind of to kun alam, some kind of healing the world.

What I hope that we use this opportunity for is to help our kids understand that the way that we change the world is one interaction at a time, one engagement at a time, one action at a time. And not to sound cliche about it, but one person actually can change the world. Continue to remind ourselves and remind the next generation, our young people, and taking advantage of these opportunities to hear these stories, to internalize these stories, and make them our own and make them human stories that we can use to improve our interactions with each other. We can make a real difference in this world. And I think even the work that we've done, Faith, through this platform that we've had, and to use platforms like this in the most responsible way, and to have these courageous conversations that we've been having for five seasons now, with the success and the reception to these conversations that we've gotten from the general public and our listeners. It's just been astounding to me. And I'm so proud of it. I'm so proud of it. And I'm so proud of what we've done together. I'm so proud that I get to do it with you. But I'm just so proud in how people have responded to these really brave conversations that we've been having.

Of course, you can have a whole lot of stories, but they don't mean much if people aren't listening.

Right. Right. And.

You and I getting the gift of listening in the moment. We do. We do a lot more listening than we do talking, and that's exactly the ratio it should be.

Correct.

And so what we wanted to do with this sort of look back, this final episode of season five, is talk about the lessons of listening that our guests also kind of dove into. And I'll add one more thing. One of the many things I get to do for a living is ask people questions. And when my kids are really little and they'd be in the bath together and they'd hold the shampoo bottle, they'd be like, okay, let's do mommy's job. And they would hold the shampoo bottle like it's a microphone. Oh my God, that's adorable. As if anybody holds microphones anymore, right? That's like 20th century. So they'd hold the microphone and they'd be like, okay, what's your name? How old are you? What's your favorite color? And I'd say, yes, like that's half of what I do. But actually, it's less than half of what I do.

Mostly what I do, y'all, I'd say.

To my kids, my kids is I listen. Like my job is a lot of listening.

Yes. And as a communicator, that is, it's the most important part of communicating, right? It's listening. Yes.

So we're going to play for our own enjoyment and to help listeners remember some of these kind of highlights from this past season. And we're going to start with our friend Claudia Romo. Gee, here I rolled my eyes there a little bit.

That was a good middle name. You've been practicing. You've been practicing. I can tell.

She's the founder of We Are All Human. Boy, do we need that phrase too. Reflecting here on how her father taught her to listen while sitting in restaurants as a child and how it affected her view of the world?

My mom and my dad couldn't be more different, right? Like mom is round, dad is square. And so he is, and they are divorced since I was two. When my siblings died, they couldn't actually stay together. And it was a lot of trauma for them. And so every Sunday, my father would come and pick me up and to go to this one same restaurant to have the same one breakfast, but every time when I was like six or seven for a number of years, not once, but for a number of years, he would put me into the restaurant. He would say, like, I'll be back. And so half an hour later or something dramatically long for me, he came back and he was like, all right, close your eyes. So what's the color of the shirt of the person behind you? How many plants are in the restaurant? How many items are in the menu? What is the cheapest item that you found? And So week after week, he would just test me and the, the period of observation was shorter every time. And so I literally was, and, and my father would actually take note if I did well, he was happy with me. If I didn't, he wouldn't be not, he wouldn't be that happy with me. So what I, what I, what I, what it did to me was that it trained me to be hyper aware, like literally Terminator. I could come into a room and I would like, so when I was with my dad, I was like, scanning things and so on, and he would say, okay, and I had like eight lamps, three plants, you know, like and so on. But I think that, you know, like as a kid, I didn't enjoy that. I suffered it a bit. It was stressful, particularly because he was, his love was a bit conditional on how well I did in certain things. But more than anything now, now that you ask me that, I see that I am hyper aware, right? Like I have this training of coming to a place and seeing it, but also because I had to be able to be fast and respond. I was, I think that I started seeing trends like patterns, like, okay, when the family comes with two kids, normally they would ask for a basket of bread or, you know, like these kind of things where you start seeing trends and patterns. And I think that overall throughout my life, I've been like looking at this for example, micro privileges that I was able to see in different realities where people wouldn't notice them. And I was like, yeah, yeah, there is something here that we have to address. And because I was able to see trends, it was easy for me to put patterns and frameworks in place. And I think that that's what I've been doing all my life, which is setting up frameworks and doing global mobilization campaigns and frameworks that are able to move those issues and sometimes just bring them to the awareness of others.

Her kind of listening there is like a, it's like a witnessing.

Yeah. You know what struck me about Claudia's story when I was listening to her and the piece that she mentions really, really briefly, but sometimes gets overlooked in the story, and she talks about her siblings died. And her parents were unable to remain together, maybe partly because of such trauma. But it was interesting, even based on how we started this conversation, we talked about how a parent interacts with a child during situations of trauma. And I'm sure her father was going through this incredible trauma and was trying to prepare her as best he could, whether we agree with the methodology he used or not. But I think it served her well that her dad was smart enough to know he needed to prepare her for a world where she needed to be able to make change. And these patterns and frameworks she talks about, and the global mobilization, and the work that Claudia has done to advance issues for the Hispanic community primarily on the global stage is a direct result of those lessons that she learned as a kid, probably sparked by this incredible trauma that happened to her family at a very young age.

You know, her dad was asking her to witness things or to notice things that were age-appropriate, right? How many plants? That's the most expensive things on the menu. She goes on to talk about how that evolved to her noticing micro privileges to her noticing dynamics, the way the world works. And further into the conversation with you and me later, we ended up talking about this word that I don't think I've ever really used until that conversation, which was invisibilization of people.

Yes, yes.

And she, at that point, a Mexican, girl grew up to notice her Hispanic and Latina counterparts all over the world being invisibilized.

I remember that specifically, and we talked a lot about that because that community in particular, that is a very real problem, is, you know, particularly with some of the positions that they hold. And there's a very interesting, A nugget in our translators film, which I'm sure we'll talk a little bit about today. But there's a very interesting nugget in the film where one of the immigrant families talks about the parents are educated people, but when they come to this country because of the language barrier, they're asked to take lower paying jobs. And in those positions, that's where the invisibility happens. We don't notice the person who comes in- Who's cleaning. Who's cleaning or- At night. But these are human beings with depth and story and education and story. Like every single one of them is a story. And I thought that was such a powerful moment in what Claudia talked about, as well as this notion of patterns and being able to discover pattern through those exercises that her dad put her through, which she's just such an incredible lady doing such incredible work. We could talk all day about her.

I think we've already established a theme for today's conversation, which is parents and children, because I think I know about one of your children that she is or intends to be a professional storyteller in her own way. Yes. And something I often say to my kids, and particularly my daughter, who even at nine kind of identifies as an artist, whatever that means, performer, visual artist, writer, is that I say, you know what you do? Her name's Minerva. You know what you do, Minerva? You notice. You're always noticing. And to notice is to listen, is to witness, is to be our most fully human. Because, right? It involves a respect, a namaste of the other person. I see you.

A curiosity. We aren't curious enough more broadly these days. What prevents us from listening and being curious is we are so bombarded with information and sound bites and social media, we've developed this lack of curiosity about each other and really understanding each other with any depth. It evolved into more of a validating our own points of view and seeking out information that just sort of validates the stance that we've had. I love that Minerva sees herself as an artist because to me, what that means is she's an incredibly curious person.

Yeah, thank you. Yeah, she is. And I once heard a psychologist or an expert thinker on this subject talk about how we've become a culture of echo chambers instead of idea labs. And that difference is that we seek validation. We're surrounded by people who think the same way we are or are so loud that we might as well just relent and let them label things. And what you and I, I mean, we keep expressing our gratitude for this. What you and I get to do in these conversations is have the expanse to have really big, deep, broad, nuanced conversations.

We get to paint together, Faith. Like we have a canvas and we get to paint together. and the guests that we bring on are the actual colors that we get to throw on this incredible canvas. And when you talk about an idea lab, I just love that notion. And I love joining collections of people where we're able to co-create together and this notion of thinking about the platforms that we have. And I mean this for all of us. We all have a we all have canvases that we paint on. The difference is, is what you choose, the paint that you choose to throw on that canvas.

Yeah.

And I think we've had some beautiful colors that we've been able to throw on this canvas.

Joelle Martinez also told us-- I do too. I do too.

I saw her in Denver. I saw her in Denver. They're all our favorites. They're all our favorites. I just saw Joelle in Denver too. She's top of mind.

Well, I hope you gave her a big compliment and I hope she accepted it because that- She had to tell you hello, too.

Oh, good.

Thank you. That's what her story is about, the one we chose to listen to, to re-listen to today. Just to remind folks, she's the president and CEO of the Latino Leadership Institute. And she was reflecting on the importance of listening and absorbing and compliments and in her words, how it is a particular challenge for the community she's grown up in.

In the Latino community, you're taught to be humble. It's actually really hard. It's still hard for me to take a compliment or hear people give me compliments. I get awkward actually. And part of that is I remember my grandparents saying, Mija, be humble, Mija. Mija, be grateful, Mija. And those are good teachings. I think humility is important. But sometimes it can come at a cost where we actually can't receive compliments and we diminish our successes in a way. And this perpetuates some of those feelings. So module two deals with those very things that again, are unique to Latinos in the workplace. I know what some of these messages have been throughout our lives and the things we've been taught. And how do we reconcile some of that with actually the ways of the workplace? And how do we bring out both sides of that? So in module two, we actually have them practice taking a compliment. And it's a huge aha moment. People will ask me, how do you overcome imposter syndrome? I overcome my lack of confidence by actually listening and accepting compliments. Step number one. And it's crazy that by module two, they're actually having to self-teach how to take compliments because for so long, that was not necessarily accepted. And in some cultures in the Latino community, some that are first second gen who just who moved over here, particularly from Central America, humility is really important to them in their culture and they struggle a lot in the workplace feeling confidence without this weight of humility, you know, kind of being an intention. So they get to work through some of that and figure out what works for them.

I always say that when someone gives you a compliment, that person is giving you a gift. So it is a generous act to accept it. I don't know if that helps you, but you accept the gift. I'm a complimentary nut. I love to give compliments.

I love to give them. I'm a work in progress in receiving them. I'm going to be honest. I'm always honest, and that is, it is a work in progress. and I think for a lot of Latinos, it is as well. It's just, it's something that goes against maybe some of our early teachings in, in our, in our early lives. So we have to be intentional about receiving those compliments. It doesn't come easy for some of us.

You're a leader, Greg. How do you feel about giving compliments to the people you lead? How do you go about it?

It's essential faith, and it starts with a complete understanding that as a leader, once you become a leader, you realize that it's no longer about you. It's actually about the team.

You said this in the conversation with Eric Toda, and my husband was listening to that whole episode, and he was nodding his head so hard. He was, he was, like, yeah, yeah. He's just talking at you. He was like, that's right, Greg.

That's your, your success. is actually the sum of the successes of all of your people. And you have to make sure that, and I believe I said this, not in that same episode, but maybe in a prior episode, that sometimes leaders get too caught up in trying to be the boss and they don't understand that their most important role is actually to be a coach. We got too many bosses and not enough coaches. Church, church. We got it. And once you understand that your role is to be a Coach and the success of all of your efforts are tied to the success of your people, it becomes a lot easier to provide compliments and feedback, right, is how we talk about it in a corporate setting. It's feedback. And sometimes we equate feedback with always being negative. But I also believe that feedback is positive. Like we, it's a positive, to your point, it's a gift. Whether the feedback is a, an observation that you need to coach somebody around, or if it's an observation that celebrates an action that you want, or a behavior that you want people to repeat. This notion of feedback is a critical part of whether it's leadership or whether it's human behavior and how we interact with each other. there's a trust element to that that's really important when we have an interaction and we feel psychologically safe enough with each other. If I have to say something to you that might be something I observed that you did that didn't make me feel great, we have a good enough relationship that you would say you would, you would take it as a gift and say, wow, like, that's made me better. And I, as a leader, think it's Absolutely essential. And I've always, I literally tell my team, you can ask anybody on my team, I tell them, do not call me your boss. I'm not your boss. I'm your coach. As your coach, that means I'm in it with you. I'm gonna call the plays. You have to perform, but I'm gonna observe and give you feedback whether it's positive or it's an observation and opportunity to get better.

And at the end, they get to dump the ice on your head.

Yeah, I've had that a few times.

That's the payoff.

That's the payoff.

You know, What Joelle is expressing here as relates to her culture and her upbringing, it really demonstrates that accepting praise is kind of a crucial part of solidifying pride for a lot of the Latino guests whom we got to speak with.

Yes, and she brought up something really important. And that's this notion of imposter syndrome. and a lack of confidence. And I think for many Latinos, but I think it's true for a lot in the black and brown or diverse communities, whatever you want to, however you want to position it, that you come into these situations, particularly in the halls of influence that Shoel and many others frequent, that sometimes you walk into those situations and people are questioning, did you get there because you were some sort of diversity hire or are you here to sort of fill some quota? And so you walk into those situations feeling an undue amount of pressure to prove yourself and to prove your worthiness. And there are times where you do show up in those situations and you do have a little bit of an imposter syndrome. And I thought it was important for her to say accepting compliments is one way to sort of overcome those two issues.

It's such a specific point of view that I never would have crossed my mind had she not shared that with us.

I felt that throughout my career. And I could not agree with Joelle more. your ability to sort of not only accept the compliments, but more importantly to believe it.

Yes. Because that's typically, that's self possession. That's when we say, own it, own it, own it, own it. Self possession.

Because what typically holds us back or propels us forward is what we say to ourself about ourself. It's that voice in your head that says, I don't have this or I don't have enough of that or I don't, or I'm more than this or the people who are successful have said to themselves, I don't need the 10 qualifications that this job says it required. I got six of them and it's go time. Like, I'm going, I'm going. Some of us feel like I at least need to have nine of the 10 even to put my hat in the ring and consider myself for positions of increased influence and responsibility. And it is that voice in our head what we say to ourselves about ourselves that either propels us forward or holds us back.

What's the best compliment you've ever received?

That I was kind and earnest. That's, that, that, that, that's, yeah.

Wish we were in the same studio.

So I could flick you. That was it, yeah. That I was kind.

That's the best compliment I can give other parents, 'cause you know, everybody's got a smart kid. We all think our kids are so smart. Of course, right? Your kid's fast and your kid does math. And when I tell somebody, you know, your son was a really kind friend to my daughter, that's like the most I can say. And it's not nice. Nice is different, right? You live in Minnesota. We know Minnesota nice, right? But kind, deeply kind.

And it's what I want for my kids too. And people ask me about my kids and what I'm most proud of. It's not some job they have or what schools they went to.

It is a great thing.

No, it's that they're kind.

The most wonderful compliment I have gotten in recent memory was from you. And we were texting after After we listened to the Eric Toda episode, I was walking through Central Park, and I just-- I don't even know what time it was, Central Time, but I was like, I'm gonna text him. I think I texted you fire emojis, because I was like, I love the conversations we get to have. And you said to me that you've learned so much from me. And I stopped by Sheep's Meadow, and I grabbed my heart, because I don't know-- Greg, that's me to you. I don't know what you've learned from me besides doing corny jokes, but it was-- Such, because I would add to the list of compliments that you must have gotten in your life, kind and earnest, also generous. That was so generous of you to say. So thank you for that compliment.

But it's all true. And I don't take any interaction with people, and I certainly don't take our interactions for granted. I've learned from you so many things, but the one thing that definitely comes to mind is I learned to be an explorer. and you are an explorer. The way that you approach these conversations with, and I've said this to you a thousand times, with the depth and preparation and care and respect that you put into this canvas that we, as I said, we get to paint on. I've learned that in this notion of exploration is definitely one thing that I've taken from you amongst many, many things.

Thank you. I am deeply grateful. Thank you. I'll take that verb and use it as a segue. Let's explore with one of our guests what it means to try to share Latino history with America. This has been Jorge Zamorano's challenge. He is the director of this new Smithsonian Museum of the American Latino, which, as we know, I don't even think a brick has been laid yet. No, it hasn't.

It'll take a while. But they have a temporary location at the Smithsonian, which is really cool. We'll talk about it on the other side of the clip. But I had an opportunity to visit.

So I'm excited to share a little bit about that experience. Oh, good. Okay. I want to hear about that. First, we're going to hear Jorge talk about stories and listening. He's going to describe the story of Finding the man who crossed the ocean. He was a Cuban refugee, right? In a boat. And, well, I'll let Jorge tell the story.

The first week I started at the museum, a history in Miami in 2000, I find this wallet on my desk. And it just had a little note on it, a little piece of paper, and said, this wallet was found in the Cuban refugee boat that we have at the warehouse.

Wow.

So we had this boat that. That was found with no weather information. The Coast Guard had picked it up in Marathon Key. It had drifted in. Nobody knew where it came from. They knew it was Cuban because some of the belongings on there inside the boat, made out of metal, kind of Frankenstein looking thing, bolted together with screws everywhere and bolts, big Russian inboard motor, big Ford steering wheel on it. Just, you know, does not look sea worthy at all. Really heavy looking. some gas cans inside of it and nothing else. And I find this wall and I open it up from the previous curator and inside is an ID and a photograph of a little girl. And the ID has a person's name on it, his name, a Russian name. Many people in Cuba, many people named their kids with Russian names going back to the 70s and 80s. And his name was Yuri. Cardente Hernandez. And so I said, well, that's curious. It has this photo, his photo ID. And I said, this, you know, it's tied to the boat. We gotta find this guy.

Right.

You know, and this is 2000. Google is still not very effective. I'm dating myself here for the internet back then. Wasn't it what it is today? So I'm going crazy for weeks, and I can't find anybody named Yuri Hernandez anywhere. So I decided, you know, let me.

Go look at the white pages.

Do people still know these?

I'm sure you saw some over the white page.

We had the yellow pages and the white pages.

And then we put on my acid.

Wash jacket to flip through those. So we had the entire white pages going back, like 100 years actually, in our collection. So I go back and I started looking year by year and I said, well, this boat, I think he arrived in '93. So I started looking in '94, '95, '96. And I couldn't find a Yuri Hernandez, but somebody told me, he goes, you,'re looking for the wrong name. His name is Yuri Cardente. Hernandez is a surname, his mom's name. When you come to the United States, you usually drop your second surname.

Tell me about it.

I'm like, man, this is so... So I look up Yuri Cardente and there he is in the phone book. There's two addresses for him. I start calling, you know, back then again, there's no cell phones. So the number you're calling is a landline. And why would he pick up the phone from 9 to 5 when I'm at work when he's at work, right?

Yeah.

So I finally decide, let me go in person. So one day I leave work late, I wait till like 6:30 and it's in that little Havana neighborhood I grew up in. So on the way home, I stopped by this duplex and a knock on, on his door. And he, this person I knew, I had his photo ID. He opens the door kind of startled, like, what did I do? You know, who are you?

Right.

Like, who are you? I hit my door. I hear something in the background and I say, you know, Yuri, is this your wallet? And I open it up and he looks at it and then he just breaks down crying. That's his daughter. He left, he left in Cuba and he was the owner, he was the owner of this boat. and it's just one of those moments where we both can get so emotional. He goes, that's my ID. Where did you get this? And I said, we found this wallet in your boat. And he goes, what boat? That boat was lost at sea when they rescued us. So he goes on to tell me this amazing story, which I'll paraphrase here because it's longer, but so they wanted to leave Cuba, him and his brother, and they, a friend of his, and they started building this boat. He worked in an auto part, in a body shop. fixing cars. And every day he would steal or take home one little bolt or screw so they wouldn't notice that he was taking them. And eventually he starts getting sheet metal from different abandoned cars in the streets. And they start putting together this boat, this Frankenstein looking boat. And it's all the sheet metal. They can't weld it. They can't do anything else. So I had to screw it together with these bolts that he took each day. And they find an old generator for a motor. They put this thing together, they launched it in the river, him and his brother and a friend. And in the dark of the night, they time when the patrol boats are going by on the coast so they won't get intercepted and caught. And they finally launch and it breaks down within like a hundred feet.

Wow.

And they're devastated. After months and months of planning, they had this thing hidden under a tarp in their yard and they're scared of getting caught. They had to say goodbye to their family already. He's leaving his wife and daughter behind. So they had to drag this thing back. They had no trailer and they go looking for a part for the carburetor that broke down. So they find someone that has the part and he says, well, I'll give you this part, but you gotta take me and my cousin also. So now it's five men on this smaller boat and they launch again and they make it out to sea. It's amazing. They're out in the ocean. They're trying to get on the straights because if you find a current, it will just take you up along keys and along the coast of Florida. It's only 90 miles from launch point. It's amazing. So they get on there, they're sitting on the gas cans, the gas fumes are killing them. He decides at one point to change to his swimming trunks, takes his pants off that has his wallet inside, rolls it all up and puts it under the center console and forgets about it, right? So they're drifting, the boat breaks down, they see a big freighter coming by like a day or two later, you know, there have been thunderstorms and sharks everywhere. TYPICAL story. And he says, well, there's a freighter approaching. The freighter drops a rope ladder to rescue them. And they're worried. They say, is this a Soviet freighter or is this a friendly freighter? So he says, I'll go up the rope ladder. If it's friendly, I'll wave you on. If it's not friendly, if Soviet, I'll take my hat off, my baseball cap, and throw it into the ocean. So that's the plan, right? He says, if it is just, start swimming, do not get on, get away from us. So they, scary. So they, so he starts climbing the rope ladder. It turns out to, I think it's like a Danish or, or Swedish ship. It's friendly. They take them on, they bring them to the Coast Guard in the keys. And back then the policy with the wet foot, dry foot was that if you made it to land or you were rescued, you were allowed to stay in the United States. So they, they made it, they get to the United States. Their boat is left out in the Gulf somewhere in the streets, sorry, in the streets of the Atlantic. and eventually it drifts and makes it to shore in the keys and the boat is found by someone and it's donated to the museum.

Jorge, moly, that story.

That story, and I'll tell you, back in July, we had our board meeting in DC and we actually had our board dinner at the museum. And so we took our entire board through the exhibit and I gotta tell you, there were, There were some real emotions being displayed and that story and so many other stories like that are being told in this exhibit. So I would encourage anybody who, if you happen to be in Washington, D.C., please take the opportunity to visit the Museum of the American Latino. It is certainly worth the time.

Isn't that exhibit, it's called Presente, I think? And it's right now housed in the National Museum of American History. Right?

Correct. And it was certainly worth it. There are so many incredible stories. I mean, what really struck me about it was just these stories are just so incredibly human and relatable. And these are the kinds of stories that need to be elevated, that bring us together, that close these gaps and divisions between people. Because you cannot listen to that story and not feel the incredible desire and the love and the person.

And this person. Yes.

To do anything to improve their life. Yeah.

Yeah. And the pictures of his kid, these are not one side or the other stories. These are human stories.

Could you imagine, and seeing that photograph of your daughter who you had to leave behind to, it's just so heartwarming and heartbreaking all at the same time. And.

I mean, I'm reluctant to add this coda, but I don't think it will surprise you. I saw in the news fairly recently, there was a Time article and there was a New York Times article about controversy surrounding our friend Jorge's efforts. It boils down to, so perhaps you know this, US Bank funds is helping to fund the museum, but 50% of funding comes from the government. So that means Congress gets to vote on this.

Yep.

And there has been pushback from conservative Latinos in Congress Some Republican Congress people have asked to put some exhibits that were planned. There was an exhibit planned about the civil rights, the Latin civil rights history of the 1960s. And that exhibit has been put on hold and a new one on salsa and Latin music is being developed in its place. To be fair, And to give voice to both sides, conservative activists are adamant that Latinos should not be painted as victims of oppression. And liberal activists and historians believe that Latinos fight against injustice is a vital part of their history. And it just, I mean, Greg, once again, this comes back to stories. Just tell all the stories.

Tell the stories.

Tell the stories. This doesn't have to be a fight. Tell all the stories.

Tell all the stories. And you use the word truth and that's really what's being debated right now, isn't it? What is true anymore? And who's true?

And who gets to tell, that's right.

And who gets to tell it? And what's changed for me in such an incredibly beautiful way is what you just said. Who gets to tell the history is what has changed. And so from my perspective, we have gotten more at the truth now because it's not just a certain point of view that has been able to document history, but now we're able to include more inclusive voices, different perspectives, lived experiences that actually are that actually are individual and collective truths. And there are some who don't want that to be shared.

And that's what you and I get to do. That's what we do in this show. And I will add, it's not just letting new or invisible voices, if that's a thing, speak and amplifying them. It's also more, I would like to think more people are listening, right? Again, you can have all the stories in the world, but if people aren't listening, where are they landing?

People are listening because they're looking for their stories to be told. They're looking for their voices and faces to be represented in every aspect of our culture and business and politics. People want to see themselves in their lived experiences reflected.

And that, my friend, is the perfect segue to this next clip because it's about Rudy Valdez, the incredible director of a film that you're the executive producer of.

I know a little bit about it. Award-winning film.

Yes, sir. And counting. Award-winning and counting more, I think. This is Rudy talking about what it meant to him to listen to John Leguizamo.

I was always somebody, even as a young kid, who wanted to tell stories and wanted to be a part of that landscape and wanted a voice so badly. And, you know, I loved things like the Wonder Years and I love things like Stand By Me and I love, you know, so many of these films that people are goonies, you know, that are pillars in, in, in, you know, the coming of age stories. But what I noticed at a very young age is there's nobody who looks like me in any of these. And that was very apparent to me. And it was very frustrating to me as a young kid, especially as I started to become an actor and and a writer and I really wanted to go out into the world and, you know, talk about a full circle moment. You know, when I, I had a friend send me this, or give me this VHS tape, which was a bootleg recording of a one man show called Freak by John Leguizamo. And I remember watching that and being in just absolute awe of what was happening on that stage. Here was somebody who looked like me who was commanding the stage, who was entertaining and had everyone in the palm of his hand with his story, with his narrative and controlling his narrative. And that was one of the final straws in my life that was like, I didn't watch that and think, oh, I can do that. Like, I never thought that. But I watched it and I said, I know it's possible now. I know that that can happen. And so I dropped out of college and I left. I was like, I'm going to New York and I'm going to figure out how to have a voice and how to do some of these things. And that changed me. It truly changed something in me to say, you know, and that's why these stories that are emblematic of larger stories are are important.

Rudy's incredible. He's such a great storyteller and I hope everyone has had an opportunity to see the film and if you haven't you can still watch it at translatorsfilm.com it's the story of 11 million kids who currently translate everyday life for their families and Rudy's the director and U.S. bank was proud to bring those stories to life but Rudy touched on it perfectly. If you can't see it, then you don't believe it's possible.

The kids themselves, who are in the film, it follows three different kids in their families, expressed to you and me, I was lucky enough to be at a screening, that not until they saw themselves on screen in this film, did they realize that they were part of something bigger.

So first of all, we should say the three kids are, Denzo, who at the time of the film was 11, he's now until they're all a year older. Denzo Hotty, who was 13 at the time of the film filming, and then Virginia, who was 16. And from the first time I met them as these shy tweens and teens who were just sort of overwhelmed by this whole experience and why these cameras to coming into their homes and why these cameras were in their face to now being coming to these movie premieres in New York City and Los Angeles. Now they're taking selfies and even, you know, they're feeling this immense, not only sense of pride, but self-worth. And I just, it's one of the incredible benefits and outcomes from this entire project is just seeing how this change the perception that these kids have of themselves and not only the kids, but the families as a whole. Like the parents who were very hesitant because they didn't speak great English very early on in the process. Now they show up at the premieres, you know, dolled up and doing media interviews and they're just excited to do media interviews and they don't care that their English is not perfect. They just lean into the process. And it's just been beautiful, beautiful experience in every way for the entire family and certainly for all of us that were involved.

So these kids felt that they were separate, that they had no idea how many other kids were like them. And every day they speak for their parents, but it took being seen in this way, in this film, to feel like they were listened to, right? And now they can be heroes for, you know, 10,999,997 other kids. I hope I did the math right.

Yeah, close enough. Close enough.

Just the way that John Leguizamo was that for Rudy.

100%.

And we did a screening, as you know, Faith, the three families are all from the general Tampa area, just coincidentally. And we did a screening recently for the friends and for the friends of the families and relatives of the families in Tampa. And so they invited the aunts and the uncles and the boyfriends and the girlfriends and the teacher in the films. I won't ruin it for those that she was there. And just to see the impact and the influence that it has not only on the immediate families, but all of the folks around them and just the shared joy and collective sort of pride that comes with them. They're so proud of that the story is being told. We're all translators in one way or another. We all translate, whether it be for colleagues at work, our parents, right? Teaching my mom who's 93 how to text or use social media or understand certain things. I think we'll all be able to relate this notion of how we translate everyday life for each other. We translate lived experiences, we translate culture, and we do that for each other. And that's part of our coexistence.

Was there someone when you were younger who was what John Leguizamo was to Rudy. Was there a person who represented something for you where you were like, wow, either you could see yourself in him or her eventually, or they inspired you?

Yes. It was not even somebody whose name I even remember. I must have been like six or seven, and I, My mom had given me some money to go get my haircut. And I was sitting in the barbershop and there was this magazine. And on the COVID of this magazine was this black gentleman in a suit and tie and a briefcase. And he was walking, you know, he was a steel shot, but he's apparently walking through a city like New York City with these cabs. And I just remember looking at that photograph and saying, that's gonna be me. I'm going to be a businessman. I'm going to wear a suit to work. Because nobody in my neighborhood was wearing suits. I'm going to have a briefcase. Remember, remember briefcases? But I just remember looking at that and saying that that's what I'm going to be. Like I hadn't seen that. I had never seen that. That wasn't part of my, my experience at that time. But seeing that it was aspirational for me.

I love that you just placed that. as a kid at a barber shop because we've had the gift of having so many interviews that you may or may not remember this one, but somebody we interviewed in like season one or two said that the defining moment in his life was when he went to the barber shop and he noticed that it was either the owner of the barber shop or someone who drove up to have his hair cut, drove up in the nicest Mustang. And he was like, did he steal that? And the guy was like, no. and he said, and this was, this was the, the, you know, I remember that. This was the culture that this kid lived in. Right. So he's like, well, does he sell drugs? He's like, no, dude has a job. He's a businessman.

Right.

And that kids head exploded.

-Huh. Like, what is that? What is a businessman? What does that mean? Yeah.

Yeah.

I just remember that so vividly.

Greg, I love that you are, you're not, this reminds me of the movie Anchorman. You're not just a businessman. You're the businessman. But you You wear the suit. Exactly. I learned that in season three, I think. That's a Jay-Z lyric, everybody. You're welcome. But you also wear the fly sneakers. Like, you make it yours. You're not wearing any wingtips with your briefcase and your suit.

Yeah, no, I usually have some fly sneakers on to go with mine. It's just a part of-- but it goes back to, some of what I think, you know, Rudy is talking about and what these kids are experiencing. And I literally said to each one of them at the end of the screenings in Tampa, we provided each one of them with a movie poster with their image on it. And I had the privilege of presenting each one of them with their movie poster as a gift on behalf of the U.S. government. Oh, my gosh. And to each one of them, I said the, I said the very same thing. I said, you are enough. Don't change for anyone. You are enough. Who you are is enough. And I literally said that to each one of them as I handed them this. And I could tell, you know, each one of them reacted a little bit differently. You know, they won't necessarily know what it means until years later. And I said, it probably doesn't mean anything to you right now, but I just want you to remember this moment. that somebody said that to you and years later, it'll make more sense to you. And I was just so proud that I had that opportunity to share that with them because you could just see how much that they've grown over the course of this process.

And look what you're doing. You're helping out Joelle on her mission to help people accept approbation and validation, right? The sooner the better seeing these kids and telling them they're enough. Yeah. So the last clip we have today is our friend Eric Toda. Talk about generous. He was so vulnerable in our conversation with him.

Yes, he was.

Holy moly. He's the global head of social marketing at Meta and the executive general manager of Meta Prosper. And here he talks about, well, he talks about being asked to speak and actually trusting that there would be people to listen to what he had to say. And boy, were there.

That a surge of anti-Asian violence in New York and Oakland and San Francisco, there were about eight, nine days straight of attacks against the community that left a few people, a few elderly people dead. And Then we go into the Super Bowl and all the Super Bowl spots are very positive. Joe Biden's in the administration now. Hooray. And we got through the summer. I thought that was really wrong. I thought that was really wrong mostly because as an advertiser and a marketer, all it takes is for one, it's going to take consistency to defeat racism. It's going to take consistency to stand with Minority communities. It's going to take consistency of messaging to reinforce your commitment to your employee base that probably isn't just one race. And none of the brands did that. And it was very disappointing to me. And I get a phone call from Adweek asking if I wanted to write a thought piece on what's happening to the community as an Asian American executive. I said no. Pretty quickly, I was within 10 seconds. I said no. I was like, yeah, wrong person to ask. Sorry. And the reason is because I was like, I don't have a place to do this. Like, this is what possibly could I say? What possibly could I say that could help people? And well, their convincing argument to me from them was, Eric, you're actually our last call. There were about eight other executives that said no to us.

Wow. Eight other.

And I know every single one of those eight, right? And I respect them. I respect them. I respect why they said no. And to me, I was, I felt ashamed. I felt super ashamed. And, you know, those other eight executives speak other languages. You know, they're, they're further down the spectrum than I am, you know, and, and I was like, you know what? I might have something to say. I might.

And.

That'S when I put pen to paper and I wrote it and I sat on it for about 48 hours. And Adewale kept calling, are you gonna do it? Did you write it? We all watched this thing, man. And I was like, I wrote it. I don't know if it's any good. I don't know if people are gonna read this, but I wrote it and I wrote what was in my head and my heart. And I remember sending it in to Adweek and crying, crying quite a bit. I remember not sleeping. I remember my wife asking me why I'm not sleeping and I was just really nervous. I was really scared. I was scared for a couple different reasons. And this is kind of what.

Part.

Of the evolution of me I was scared because I didn't think I had a place to talk about the community or lead the community or even be a leader in the community. I've always known, I've been a great executive, a great leader that certainly looked like other people, but that was never like a con, I was never like, yes, and that's me, an Asian American leader, let's go. It's always, yes, that's me. I'm a marketing executive and I just happen to be Asian. And that still continues to be true, but now there's this other part of me where I'm like, But the part of my identity that I was not proud of before, I am proud of now. And that was the change that I am proud of now. I am proud of it. And even if you don't like it, and even if you don't think I should be proud of it, or even if you don't think I have the right to be proud of it, I'm going to be proud of what I see in the mirror. And that was the change when I sent that piece in was I became proud of what I saw in the mirror and every my faults, Where I was on the ethnicity spectrum, all that stuff. I was like, that's it. Now, as an advertising and someone that's also in corporate comms, launching something on any publication on a Friday is not advised. It's not advised. And Adweek was...

It's Shabbat, man.

They're like, you know what? This is launching today, Friday.

And I was like, I was like.

Guys, no one's going to read this. It's also Presidents Day weekend. I was like, no one's going to read this. I was like, this is doomed. This is doomed forever. And I was so sad. I was so sad. I was like, I poured my heart into this piece and now no one's going to read it. And I went to sleep. And when I woke up, I look at my phone and I'm, you know, as a brand marketing professional, you always tell your agencies and, you know, the people internally, like, oh, I'm gonna make this go viral, you know? I'm gonna, like, watch this go.

Watch this.

Watch this. Start to trend. Like, watch this. And then you do things, and you make work, and it goes viral, and it trends. And, like, I won, like, one literal Awards for doing just that, but seeing what I wrote. that represented me, that represented my truth, that represented my experience, do what I do for a living, do those types of numbers, have those numbers dance, have those numbers shut down ad week because they didn't have the server space. It showed me that I shouldn't have waited so long. and I felt really bad about that. I felt super bad about that. And it opened the floodgates to a number of different people speaking up. I think a lot of people saw me go into the fire and not die, and so they spoke up, too. But the biggest thing that I felt.

Was.

Damn, I didn't know. I didn't know it was gonna be so easy to be proud. of who I was.

Wow.

Where he landed on that.

When he.

Said, what took me so long, is something that I think strikes a lot of us who do this work. And when I say this work, meaning the work of being in service of others and being in service of something bigger than yourself is it does take a great deal of courage and bravery to put yourself, your personal capital and everything that you've worked so hard for, status, money, whatever it is, and you have this fear of putting yourself out there. Safety.

Yeah.

And once you muster up the courage to do that, you know, it goes back to where we started this conversation. Like that we all have an individual responsibility to help make the change happen.

And.

We just need to lean into that. And I'm so glad that Eric did.

It also really drives home how hungry people are to listen. But the fact that it went viral, beyond viral, right? For sure. It goes back to something you were saying before. People are so hungry to see themselves and to listen to people who are brave enough to tell their own stories. That somehow with the alchemy of storytelling, the most specific human, honest story that's only about you becomes universal because there are so many points of entry for people.

And the listening, as we've said a number of times today, it's having the curiosity because in order to make those numbers dance, as Eric said, there are a lot of people who weren't a part of the Asian community who took a great deal of interest, who took action, and found inspiration from his words. So this notion of listening has a profound effect beyond your intended audience. And it also empowers others to take action and accept their responsibility as well.

And you never know who's listening and whom you are affecting. And you know, his story, what he wrote for Adweek and what he told us in our conversation with him begins with his grandfather, who was fifth generation American. didn't even speak Japanese, but was a Japanese American and who was beaten. And P.S. who also served in World War II after his own family was put in an internment camp. I've told that story to my kids who aren't Asian American and are incredibly moved by it. And, Greg, you have like a magician's hat of stories. You can just put, you pull out the rabbits, you pull out the scarves, you have so many stories you forget. how many stories you have, but I have soaked them up. And the stories I have reminded my son, for example, who is a big baseball fan. And I've reminded him like, Hey, my friend Greg used to tell me that when he played baseball, the other teams didn't want to come to their field because there was no grass. It was rocks and branches. And that's when we have to leave the island of Manhattan to go somewhere and it takes forever and it's raining. I'm like, Hey kid, you got grass. At least you've got that, right?

Right.

Or I'll never forget this is like briefest little story. But when you mentioned that you and your brother used to switch shoes on the basketball court, one of you would go in and get to wear the shoes with the good souls. And then come out and switch shoes because your mom was a single mom and she didn't have enough money to buy you both great basketball shoes, right?

Most embarrassing thing ever happened to me. Yeah. Was that having to do that.

Those stories stick with you. My kid knows your stories.

Wow. I'm honored. And I think that Eric said something else that really stuck with me. And when he said, it's a part of his identity that he wasn't proud of before, but is proud of now, and that journey that he went on is a journey that I think all of us, you know, learn to accept the things that are, that make us who we are and to be able to share that proudly and to lead out loud. It was, I was glad he touched upon that. I'm glad he had gotten to that place in his own personal journey. It was one of the most important things that he said amongst many, many really important things.

We're coming to the end of our conversation today. And it's really gratifying to see that this conversation that's been woven through with lessons about listening ends again with pride. Because if you have something to say and people listen, that's got to make you proud.

100%. You said you never know who's listening. That really sticks with me as well.

Thanks for listening to another episode of Real Good. We have been doing this for five seasons and in this episode we looked back at only our most recent set of interviews. And I have to say there is so much more to check out in our catalog. I was held at gunpoint in utero because of this issue of race.

In the barbershop after the Civil War, this was one of the first ways for black men to be entrepreneurs because white men didn't do service work. When a tornado stays on the ground for hours and travels 200 miles and destroys everything in its path, who puts that back together?

If you like what you heard, subscribe anywhere you get your podcasts. Check out those earlier seasons. As for what's next, we hope to see you soon after a little bit of a break. Real good is brought brought to you by U.S. Bank. It is hosted by me, Faith Salie, and my very good friend, Greg Cunningham, Chief Diversity Officer at U.S. Bank. This season was produced by Willis Arnold, Thea Pope, and Jenner Pasco, edited by Matt Winnegar, executive produced by Heidi Reilly and Aaron Goulden. Special thanks to Courtney Morales, Caroline Ehlinger, and Samantha Yates. and all the folks working behind the scenes that helped bring this season to the life. Thank you for listening and for doing the good work.

I hope today's episode inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a rundown of today's show with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me as well as ad free listening experience. Make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus Channel on Apple podcast. If you enjoyed this, please share it with a friend over on social media or text a friend. Leave us a review over on Apple podcast and let me know what you learned over on our social media channels at Lewis house. I really love hearing the feedback from you, and it helps us continue to make the show better. And if you want more inspiration from our world-class guests and content, to learn how to improve the quality of your life, then make sure to sign up for the Greatness Newsletter and get it delivered right to your inbox over at greatness.com/newsletter. And if no one has told you today, I want to remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.