Dr. Phil's 3 Secrets For A Happy & Successful Relationship EP 1173

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The School of Greatness is sponsored by Capital One. Nowadays, most people subscribe to everything music, tv, even dog food. And it rocks until you have to manage it all. Which is where Capital One comes in. Capital One credit cardholders can easily track, block or cancel reoccurring charges right from the Capital One mobile app at no additional cost. With one sign in, you can manage all your subscriptions all in one place. Learn more at capital1.comsubscriptions terms and conditions apply. This is episode number 1173 with Dr. Phil McGraw on the Secret to Successful Relationships. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur and each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. Welcome back everyone. My guest today is Dr. Phil McGraw. He is one of the most well known and trusted mental health professionals in the world, bestselling author of nine books and the host of TV's number one daytime talk show, Dr. Phil. He focuses on presenting compelling stories about real people with a variety of emotional and behavioral problems, stripping away the shame and embarrassment that too often keeps people from seeking help. He continues to value his academic training and professional qualifications and insists that the information provided on his show is based on evidence based treatment options and state of the art research in the fields of psychology, psychiatry and medicine. Our conversation was so powerful that I had to split it up into two parts. And you can listen to part one by going to Lewishouse.com 1172 but in this episode one, we dive deep into relationships and Dr. Phil shares his three pieces of advice for a happy and successful marriage. Why you need to heal yourself before getting into a new relationship. The non negotiables and Dr. Phil's everyday marriage routine. The power and importance of making eye contact with your partner on a daily basis. And he shares a cool strategy here and so much more. I thought this was so meaningful and helpful for anyone looking to get into a strong value based relationship. For for anyone looking to stay in a long term healthy relationship with their partner, this has got some incredible wisdom. So if you're inspired in any moment, make sure to share this on social media or text a few friend of yours who are trying to get in a relationship or who are in relationships already that want to learn more skills and tools to help them improve the quality of their relationships. Then make sure to text a few people, post it on social media and tag myself and Dr. Phil as well. And if this is your first time here or someone sent you here via a friend of yours, then make sure to click the subscribe button right now over on Apple podcast or Spotify and leave us a review and tell us the part you enjoyed the most about this interview with Dr. Phil. Okay, in just a moment, the one and only Dr. Phil.

I'd love to ask you some questions about relationships because you have a lot of wisdom around this and my audience loves to hear about how to find the right partner, how to improve the quality of the relationship they have already. Intimately. And you've been with Robyn for how long have you been with her? Almost 40, is it?

40?

We just had our 45th anniversary on August 14th.

Wow, 45 year anniversary. How long have you been with her?

About 50 years.

50 years?

Yeah. Just 48, 49. Somewhere in there, but almost 50 years. We've been married 45.

So when did you and you were married before?

Correct.

Very short time. My high school sweetheart for a very short time. And we had the good sense before we had kids or anything to say. We weren't ready to do this. We were just married for literally a few months.

What would you say the biggest lessons around that relationship that helped you now and over the last 50 years with the right relationship?

Well, you know, I was. You mean the first one?

Yeah, yeah.

Well, you know, we were high school kids. I was proud of both of us for having the good sense before we had children to look at each other and say, we did this because it was the next thing to do, and neither one of us were ready to do it. And without any animosity, we said, we're not ready to do this.

That's hard to deal without animosity.

And there really wasn't any. And she was a delightful, absolutely delightful woman. Girl at the time. Just really a delightful girl. And I was proud that we had the good sense to say, let's take a step back from this and give ourselves a chance to get into our lives in college and all of that.

You got married before in college?

Yes, in college. That's tough. Sort of. We were barely into college right after.

I mean, we don't even really know who we are until how old do you think that we kind of form our real identity?

I think until you've been out and seen some of the world and had jobs and changed locations and gotten away from home and family and been on your own, where you've really found out who you are and what you're about, it's hard to know who you are entering into a relationship, and that takes some time. And, you know, when Robin and I got married, it was in 1976, and I had finished my bachelor's degree and master's degree, and I had been out and been in business and lived on my own and completed two degrees in college. And at that point, I felt like I knew a little bit about life and knew who I was coming into a relationship. She always knew who she was. She was so much mature than I was going into it. It was astounding. You know, 45 years later, we get along great.

That's crazy.

Yeah. In this town, it's really crazy.

It's really crazy. When did you know that she was going to be your partner, your wife, your person in your life?

You know, I was not at all looking to get into a relationship when I met her. I was actually just visiting my parents, and she was a friend of my little sister's. And she came. I'd had the flu and was kind of stopped over there to kind of recuperate. And she came walking through the room. I didn't even know she was in the house. And she came walking through the room. She was there visiting my little sister. And I thought, whoa, how old are.

You at this time?

I was 23. Okay, 22. 23. And she was 19. And very charmingly said, who are you? She said, well, who are you? And we were there alone and visited for a couple hours and went out the next night. And man, there was something about her from the very beginning. There was something different about her from the minute I met her. She was spunky and smart and obviously very easy on the eyes. But her personality just sparkled like crazy and still does today. I can't spend enough time with her after 45 years. Isn't that crazy?

Amazing. What is the thing you love about your wife the most?

Her personality. She has. It's kind of like when we decided I always had a rule in the family that if we were going to make a big change, it took four yeses and one no. So I had two boys and then Robin and I said, we're going to make a big change. It took four yeses and one no. Even though Jordan at the time was like 10, 12, whatever. If we were going to make a change, if anybody said no, don't want to do it, we'd not do it. So I remember when I came home and we talked about coming to LA and launching Dr. Phil. I'm telling Robin, I said, you know, I talked to Oprah today and she says, you know, it's really time to launch your own show. We're getting an awful lot of mail. Come on. It's really time. Hope telling her that while I'm telling her she's like getting boxes and packing shit. It's like she's got the spirit of adventures, like, whatever.

She's already packing.

Yeah. We had a great life. We have a beautiful home on the golf course at Las Colinas in Dallas at the Four Seasons. Wonderful. Life couldn't be better. Kids are, Wisconsin school, everything's going great. She's like, oh, really? She's packing while we're talking, like, whatever, man. She's just like, spirit of adventure always. And I love that about her. And she is fiercely loyal. You don't want to criticize her husband or kids.

It would not be fun to be around.

She's 5, 2 and 108. But you do not want to. You don't want to pick a fight.

Wow.

With her about husband and kids. She's a. She's ferocious and I love that about her. Wow. And she's a lot of fun. She got a great sense of humor and she's a small town girl from Duncan, Oklahoma. You've been to Duncan, Oklahoma? Never. Yeah, well, it ain't there and it ain't headed that away. It's a middle. You go another 10 miles and fall off the earth.

Yeah, yeah.

It's in the middle of nowhere. And she grew up poor like I did. Her dad had a driving range and her job was to. They didn't have a ball picker upper. She was the ball picker upper. She had to go out with a bucket and pick up the balls.

They didn't have the cart with the fence.

No, that was her.

She was picking it up, like dodging balls.

Katelyn would wear a football helmet if they were still hitting. Wow. That was her. So she's Spirit of Adventure. I love her. Pretty scrappy.

What? I think I saw her in a video somewhere with you a few years ago, say that she's never missed an episode of Dr. Phil's show. This was a few. I don't know if this is still the case 20 years in. Yeah, 3,500 episodes almost.

Yeah, we'll hit 3,500 this season.

She's never missed one.

Never missed one. Oh, my goodness. And she's not just a proverbial audience member. She is one of the foremost ambassadors in the fight against domestic violence in America. She's become our representative in that and she's testified before Congress on those matters. She's developed an app for escaping those situations that's been honored at the United nations and on Capitol Hill. I mean, she is very, very prolific in that arena. Has a foundation in that regard. She's very, very active.

Wow.

She's a go getter.

That's amazing. What would you. I'm curious, your three pieces of advice for having a happy, healthy, long marriage. There's a lot of people that stay together a long time, but they're not happy and it's not healthy. And I feel like they still say, well, we've been together for 30 years, but the kids know that they should have got divorced a long time ago. So what would you say are your three pieces of advice for happy, healthy, long term marriage that makes you say, I can't spend enough time with her. And then what would you say is Robin's three pieces of advice? Is it the same or is it different?

Well, I can speculate about hers, but I think one that we share. I know because we've talked about it and that is you deal with the issues when they come up, don't wait for them. Yeah. People ask us, do we have big fights and blow ups and stuff like that? And the answer is we don't because we deal with stuff before it gets big. It doesn't mean we don't have disagreements because we certainly do. And. But we don't let things build up across time. We don't procrastinate emotionally. We deal with it when it comes up. And I think if you don't ever allow for unfinished emotional business, then you always keep the slate clean. Don't ever let there be unfinished emotional business because then it builds up and then one thing stacks on top of another and then on another, and then on another, and resentment really builds out of that. We made a deal early on that we weren't going to do that.

So you guys have probably never really resented each other because you've always dealt with the challenging stuff when it comes.

Maybe in the moment I might have said something or that she resented me saying, but we dealt with it right then, and then it was over with. And so I think that's critically important.

Wow, Okay.

I think if people would really commit to doing that, I think it would make a huge, huge difference.

What's a way to approach that by starting the conversation. If the other partner is always triggered by the emotional stress or maybe there's some trauma they haven't healed yet or dealt with, where they resist it or they just try to lie. Like, how do you approach that conversation?

Well, I think the thing to do is you have to talk about that outside of crisis. You don't talk about it when something has gone off in the ditch. You never talk to a drunk about their drinking while they're drunk, while they're sober. You don't talk about issues and resentment while you're angry with each other. Talk about it while things are calm. And most people think, no, no, no, let sleeping dogs lie. I don't want to bring up an issue when there isn't one. No, that's when you need to talk about it. That's when you need to say, look, while we're getting along, let's make an agreement that if I do something that really gets on your nerves, you will tell me, and I promise to you that I will hear you out and that's the time to talk about it. Don't try to solve problems during crisis. Make your plan outside of crisis. And I think that's really important. I think, secondly, we have agreed that our objective when we disagree is not to get the other person to agree with us, but to be heard. In fact, you don't even need to respond. I'm going to tell you how I feel and you tell me how you feel, and then we'll just walk away and let that sit with the other person. And you know what? If you really love each other and you really want to make the other person happy, most of the time you will find a way to get the other person most of what they want. But if your goal is you're going to agree with me, I'm going to make my point and you're going to agree with me, then you're making it a win, lose situation. And think about that. Think about when you were in high school and you were playing the Lancers. What were the signs in the hallway? Crush the Lancers. Smash the Lancers. Do you really want a win, lose situation with your partner? No, crush my wife. Smash my wife. You don't want a win, lose situation. Let me tell you how I feel. And I just want to be heard. I'll hear what you say and I'll let you be heard. And then let's drop it at that. And then we can come together and talk about it another time. If that's your objective, to be heard, it will work itself out. And that has really worked for us. We don't put it on a win lose situation, because if it's a win lose, one of us is going to be the loser. And I don't want to be the loser, and I don't want to be married to a loser. Right.

You don't always be winning and your partner losing every time. Yeah.

Yeah. Because if she's a loser, that's where resentment comes from. Yeah.

Okay. So that's number two, right?

Yeah, that's number two. I think if people will. And that's a hard thing to do. Yes, that's really a hard thing to do. Because we want to win. We want to make our point.

We want to be right.

Yeah. We do get to be right fighters and we want to write. We want to be right. And the other thing is, I think we really have to resolve that. If somebody has to stop being all of who they are to be half of a couple. Oh, the price is too high.

Oh, my gosh. That's the greatest thing you said. Because so many people are inauthentic in their relationships.

This doesn't work. If I got to stop being who I am to be half of the McGraws, it isn't going to work. And if she's got to stop being who she is to be half of the McGraw couple, it's not going to work. I've told her before because she said, I wish she would be more sensitive. I'm like, no, you really don't.

Wow.

You really don't. You think you do, but you really don't. Because you know what? You didn't marry a cheerleader. You married the Middle linebacker.

Right, right, right.

And not that there's anything wrong with a cheerle. And I mean that. I'm not saying that to be politically correct. There's nothing wrong with a guy that is more effeminate or more emotionally sensitive at all. There's not. But that's not what attracted you to me. And if I became that, that's not who you married. And had I been that and then I became more of a gorilla, that wouldn't be who you married. You married me and there's a reason you did. You felt safe with me or there was something about me that you were attracted to. Don't try to change it now. There have been times where things went off the rails somewhere and I stood in the gap and she was like, yeah, I'm sure glad you are who you are.

Right.

Because there have been times where we've been in situations where I needed to step up and be who I was. And she was like, man, I'm glad I married you.

I'm glad you're the linebacker.

Yeah, exactly. And I'm like, yeah, okay. But that doesn't mean that you can't evolve across time. And I think I've learned to be more. Less cerebral and more emotional across time. But you can't ask somebody to stop being all of who they are to be half of the couple.

And what happens if your partner starts asking you to change?

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To accepting kind of where you're at.

You know, like I have a range.

Yes.

Okay. There are, there's a range where you know I'm over here in full CRO magnon mode and there's a range down here where you know I can hold the baby and I remember Jay had to have surgery when he was four weeks old and I was on staff at that hospital. And so they allowed me to carry him into the operation room. And, you know, she'll never forget that image of seeing me walk down the hallway with his little head right here, and he was kind of crying and I was carrying him in there. And she said that was probably the most tender scene she's ever seen in her life. You know, that was at this end down here. So you have a range in there. And so, yeah, you can move within that range. That's okay. But that is who I am. You can move within that range, but you don't ask somebody to be somebody they're not. She'll ask me sometimes something, like, really great will happen. And she'll say, come on, give me something. Give me a happy dance. Give me something. Well, I'm not the kind of person that jumps up and down and goes, hey, but inside I might be going, yes, this is really great. And it's a great sense of satisfaction to me. But I don't jump up and down and run around in circles. And she'll jokingly say, come on, give me something. And I'll say, I'm very happy about this. She'll say, okay, that's good for you.

Yeah, she's dancing around and jumping on couches.

Exactly. And you know, my highs don't go real high. My lows don't go real low. And maybe that's boring.

You're like Tom Brady, you know, you're just like, you're consistent.

That's all I have. But, you know, I'm not real. I'm. I'm more cerebral than emotional. But inside I've, you know, I experience. I'm very happy about it, but I don't. I don't run around with my hair on fire, which is good. So I don't have much of that.

And what would you say are the three things that Robin would say are the keys to a happy, healthy, long term, thriving marriage or partnership?

Yeah, I think she would say, first off, spending quality time together. I think she really values that quality time, and I think she thinks there's just no substitute for that. And by quality time, I mean intimacy, where intimacy being defined as sharing things that you would not share with anybody else on the world, in this world.

Can you give an example of.

There are times that she and I spend together, just maybe out on the patio, relaxed and talking, where, you know, I have, you know, my guard down, she has hers down, where we're just completely relaxed. We're not on, we're not in Any way.

It's not business mode. It's not tv, Phil. It's not this.

We're not censoring anything. We're just completely relaxed and 100% candid with each other, talking about life or family or dreams or whatever, things that we just wouldn't share with anybody else. And I think that's really important to her, that there are things that we would say to each other that we wouldn't say to anybody else because we don't feel safe enough to say it to anybody else. And to me, that's intimacy, when you say and do things with that person that you wouldn't say or do with any other person in the world. Not your best friend, not your sister, not your brother, but it's just reserved for that. It has nothing to do with. With romance or sexuality or anything. It has to do with just trust and that uniqueness of that one relationship where it would not happen with another person in the world. And I think she really values that. I know that because she said so. I think so. When I say quality time, that's intimacy time. Yeah. That's what that means. Okay.

And what do you think would be here?

Number two, having each other's back no matter what.

Even if the person's wrong.

Even if the person's wrong. And that doesn't mean that privately you might not say, you know, we might modify this situation, but publicly or otherwise, that there's never a doubt where you stand.

What happens if you don't, even for a slight little moment, don't have that person's back in a public or friend setting. Let's say.

I don't know.

You never experienced it.

I'm not gonna find out.

Right.

I just. And I've never experienced that with Robin, because that's why I told you a minute ago, you don't want to pick a fight with her by getting sideways with her husband or children. Wow. Because that's. To her, there's family and everybody else, and. That's really core with her. And if you've been raised by an alcoholic, then you understand what I'm talking about. Because when you've been raised by an alcoholic, you learn that you can't depend on the leader of the family to be there. When you become the leader of the family, you say, that will never happen in my family. Not one minute of one hour of one day, will any member of my family ever doubt where I stand. Wow. And that is core to her soul.

That's beautiful.

That is core to her soul. That will never Happen.

That is beautiful.

She's been where they've banged on her door at three in the morning with a bunch of drunk men out there saying her father lost their furniture in a poker game and they pulled up in a truck and wanted their furniture. And she'd seen her mother stand on the porch saying, you're not taking our furniture. Wow.

Even if he was wrong, she's not.

Yeah, you're not taking our furniture. Her mother stood in the gap and said, you're not taking our furniture. You're not taking my daughter's bed. And she knows what it is to stand by your family. And that's critical to her. That's core to her.

Seems like an amazing woman.

Yeah, she is. That's why I said, you don't want to get on the front. You don't want to get on the wrong side of her.

And what would you say? The third thing is that she would say, you think?

I think she would say that. You absolutely recognize that children, I'll put it this way. When you start being parents, you don't stop being wives, husbands and lovers, just because you start being parents, you don't stop being husbands and wives. And she has been so great about that over the years. The children joined our lives, we didn't join theirs.

What is the mistake most people make when they have kids?

Well, they really stop focusing on their role as husband or wife, and they start being totally focused on the kids and they stop carving out time for each other. Now, there are going to be times when you do, like when the children are really young and you're up all night, you're breastfeeding or changing diapers or. Or Dad's getting up every other minute, or Mom's up every minute, and you're surviving those times. I'm talking about across the years. You recognize that those kids come and then they go. And when they go, it's the two of you again. And if you haven't known each other for the last 18 years, when they leave, you're going to be sitting there looking at somebody you used to know, and you don't want that to happen. If you were really great lovers and intimate and best friends 18 years ago and you haven't been for the last 18 years, and then they go off to college, you're sitting there looking at somebody like, didn't I used to know you? Wow. And I think she would say, just don't ever make that mistake. Don't ever let that gap come in there. Now, in short term, of course, you sacrifice for your children, whatever it takes for them to flourish and be nurtured and do what you take. But across time, across the years, you remember to nurture that relationship between the husband and wife. You remember that they're going to leave someday and it's going to be the two of you take care of that relationship. So when they leave, you're not sitting there with a stranger.

Some wisdom right there. That's some wisdom right there.

She's talked about that before. That's how I know she would say that. Right.

I'm curious. It seems like in this time, it seems like this, maybe because I'm in la, I see more of it like this, that it's really hard to find a quality partner that's a great match for you. In General, in the U.S. i'm speaking, it's hard for people to find a great partner and stay in a healthy relationship. I've heard people say that, you know, 80% of being in a great relationship is picking the right person, is choosing the right person. I'm not sure if you would agree with that. But why do you think it's so hard for people to choose the right partner when we're always choosing something from a pain or from a need or a lack as opposed to a healthy, conscious whole place?

Well, I think it is. You got to know what you're looking for. And I think so many people there's a difference between Mr. Right and Mr. Right Now, Mrs. Right and Mrs. Right Now. What is it you're looking for? And I think we have to know ourselves to know what we really need. And sometimes if we don't really know what's driving us, it may be insecurity and we bring out the worst in each other. I see people all the time on stage where you've got somebody that's really dependent with somebody that's really over controlling and they bring out the worst in each other and they think it's a perfect fit. Oh, we just fit like hand in glove because she was very passive and he was very dominant. And so it just seemed like, wow, what a perfect match. It wasn't a perfect match at all. It was pathological from the get go. She needed to get a backbone and the last thing she needed was somebody dominant that played into her. Passivity is the worst thing they could do. You got to know what is it that's attracting me to this person? Is it a pathological need to be controlled or is it that I really admire this person? You got to really ask yourself, what is it that's attracting me to this person. Is it somebody that makes me feel safe in the moment, but it's not really what I need. You got to ask yourself what's driving you in the moment? And a lot of people don't ask that question. They really need to ask that question.

I mean, how do they. If someone has dealt with a lot of, I guess, trauma from their past, is it possible for them to choose a healthy relationship until they heal or start to at least work on that healing process? Or are they always going to kind of fall into that trap?

Well, I think you're going to do one of two things. When you enter a relationship, you're either going to contribute to or contaminate that relationship based on what you bring with you when you show up.

Right?

If you bring a wounded soul, if you bring open wounds, if you bring resentments, if you bring a lot of unfinished emotional business from being cheated on or hurt or abandoned or neglected, and you bring all that pain to the relationship, you're going to contaminate that relationship. Or if you've healed all of those things where you come to a relationship saying, I want but don't need a partner, now you're going to contribute to the relationship. So I think if you are really hurt, you got to heal that hurt before you can go into a relationship and not contaminate it. It's like baggage. You're going to pick that baggage up and carry it with you and set it down in the relationship, or you're going to empty it out before you go. And I think that's why I think everybody, everybody should do an autopsy on the relationships they've been in before they go to the relationship they're headed towards.

What should they be asking themselves about previous questions?

What did I do? What did I do to contribute to the demise of that relationship?

Not blaming them. Them. Them.

Yeah, they're gone. They ain't bringing them unless it's a really weird relationship. What did I do to contribute to the demise of this relationship? Was I too passive? Was I too domineering? Was I too suspicious? Was I too naive? What did I do? Even if you were cheated on, even if you were abused, even if you were just completely run over, what did you do to contribute to that so you don't do it again? And if you can own whatever role you had in that, so you can adjust that and not do it again, then you've got a chance of not repeating those mistakes in this new relationship. You can't do that unless you do an autopsy on the one you've been in.

Sound advice right there. What about questions you should ask someone before you're going to get committed to them, Whether that be in a marriage or just an exclusively committed dating relationship. To know that you're setting yourself up for potentially a good relationship?

Well, you got to know what your deal breakers are. There are deal breakers. Right? Right. And you know you're not going to find a perfect candidate. Right. You know, if you, if you find an 80% candidate and the 20% that's not there aren't deal breakers, you can grow the 20% faster than you can find it.

Right, right, right.

Because you can say, well, I'm going to wait until I find 100%. Well, no, you're better off to take the 80 and grow the 20 or 10 of the 20 or whatever it might be. As long as they aren't deal breakers. And there aren't many deal breakers. Deal breakers are like physical abuse, drug or alcohol abuse. And they won't get treatment for it. They won't. You know, there are those things that if they have some of those things that are just non negotiable, that if you were in the relationship and those things occurred, you would leave. Then don't get in to start with. If there's somebody that's going to hit you, don't get in. Because if you were in it and they did, you would leave. So that's a deal breaker. Don't get in. But you've got to decide what are your deal breakers if you are on this earth. Robin believed she was put on this earth to be a mother. If I was absolutely 100% committed in this life to not have children, that's a deal breaker. That'd be a deal breaker. She should know that up front. That wasn't the case. But had it been, she would want to know that if her father was a bad alcoholic like mine. And she said up front, I will never marry a man that drinks. And as it turned out, I was committed to not being a drinker because of what my dad had demonstrated to me. And we were kind of faced in that regard. Because you drink. Actually, I don't. I'm sorry. Because I thought she wanted to go out drinking. I was just telling her the truth. I'm not your guy. If you want to go clubbing, I ain't your guy. I thought I was giving her the wrong answer and she said, okay. Little did I know that was the right answer. But you got to know what your deal breakers are. And Aside from that, you got to see if there's compatibility. If it feels right. There's got to be chemistry. There's got to be chemistry. If there's not chemistry, you can't grow chemistry. That's there. It's either there or it's not. I don't care if he's the most handsome guy in the world or she's the most gorgeous girl in the world. If there's not chemistry, that won't grow, you'll know that right up front. And that's the way it is for some. Some people you look like James Bond and for some girl, it's like, you mustn't be.

They don't care.

Yeah.

What would you say is a non negotiable for you both in your marriage on a daily basis? Whether it's, we get up and say we love each other in the morning or we give each other a hug every day or a kiss, or is there like a non negotiable. We talk about what we're grateful for every night. Is there something you guys do that is automatic to support the growth and the quality of the relationship? Something small or big? We go on a trip every, you know, out of the.

Well, I could say it on both sides in. And this comes to my mind because I talked about it with a couple today. In almost 50 years of being with Robin, I've never called her a name or cussed at her, nor has she ever at me. Really? Not ever? Never ever.

That's inspiring.

Let me tell you. There are some women, and I'm talking about Robin, like she's scary and she's not.

She seems like a sweetheart.

I mean, she is. She's on my phone, she's always smiling.

When I see her videos of her.

She'S just an absolute doll. And you can see looking at her, that's not a pose picture. It's just her in the back of a helicopter. But there are some women you just look at and you say, would you ever call her a name? No. Some women just don't. You just look at. No, no. It's like you just would never do that. And nor would she be. She's never one time. It's something we just don't do.

50 years and never called each other a name.

Not one time.

That's incredible.

Really.

I mean, I don't know many relationships where they're not. When they're in an argument saying, well, you did. You're this and this.

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It's not even been close.

That's beautiful. That's inspiring.

Well, maybe, but it's just never even been.

Wow, that's beautiful.

I've never even bit my tongue. It never even occurred to me to call her a name.

That's amazing.

Maybe it's because I grew up in a very violent household. Right, right. I had three sisters and they were in violent marriages and my parents were in a violent marriage, and it was just something I just would never do. That's just not. And this is something that I could not accept myself doing.

You want to be proud of yourself?

I could not accept that from myself.

Okay. So that's one of the non negotiables, I don't think.

I can't think of a time I've ever called a woman a name.

Wow, that's great.

Ever. I might have turned and walked off, but that's just not something that you do. Maybe it's part of being from the South. You just don't do that. You just don't do that. And my sons. I've never heard my sons speak of a woman in a derogatory way.

That's beautiful.

Then they better not.

Right? You know.

I just don't think you do that.

Yeah.

Okay.

But that's beautiful. I mean, I just hear of a lot of marriages that struggle and there's name calling or frustrations, and it's just like. That probably doesn't help develop more love.

Well, John Gottman is. I don't know if you've heard of Gottman Institute. Yeah. And he talks about the Four Horsemen, and those are the things that predict divorce in a relationship and that sort of thing. Name calling is one of those things. It's defensiveness and stonewalling and aggressive. All those things that you get into that have to do with character assassination is one of those things that if you see people doing that, you can predict the demise of that relationship in very high. Very high.

What are the four things, do you remember?

Well, there are different names for them, but stonewalling is one of them.

Name calling, a stonewalling.

Defensiveness is one of them. And he calls them specifically criticism, contempt. Defensiveness and stonewalling. Criticism, Contempt, defensiveness and stonewalling. And the name calling would come under contempt where you're just showing you're just like your father. Just like you.

Stonewalling. What does that mean, specifically?

Well, it's when you just simply won't engage. You won't.

It's like the passive aggressive. It's the silent treatment. So if one or four. One of these. Four or all four of these things are happening in a relationship, bad news, it's typically not going to work out.

No. You can predict.

Wow.

And you can see these in a very short period of time.

How does someone Heal and get to a place of healing in a relationship. If one or all four of these things are happening, is it possible to come back and love each other more than ever or is that kind of hard to come back from?

Well, I think there's power in forgiveness. I think you have to step back and label these things and say, look, here's what we're doing. And this creates wounds, this creates pain that it's real hard to recover from. We need to acknowledge that and we need to hold ourselves to a higher standard. And if you can get a couple to acknowledge that and stop doing it and hold themselves to a higher standard of communication, then yeah, you can heal those. But you've got to be willing to forgive what has happened in the past. And forgiveness isn't a feeling, it's a choice. Most people think that it's an emotion. It's a feeling that you've got to wait for this feeling of forgiveness to fill your heart. And that's not true. It's a choice. You choose to forgive the person doesn't mean you forget, but you choose to forgive them for what they've done and forgive yourself for what you've done. But it does do any good to forgive it on Monday if you turn around and do it again on Tuesday. So that means you've got to forgive it and then hold yourself to a higher standard and say, okay, instead of this contemptuous behavior that I show and calling names and assassinating their character, what am I going to do instead? How am I going to express my emotions in a less destructive way? And when you do that, then, wow, you say this didn't last for two weeks. It lasted for 15 minutes. And now we're having dinner. Wow. And then we had a nice evening and we were even laughing and maybe had a sexual encounter that night and that had momentum in the next day. And gee, we're turning this worm, you know, turning it around. Yeah.

Is there anything else that you do on a daily basis that you always do that's a consistent for you as a non negotiable in your marriage?

I think it's. We don't ever, even if we're traveling, we don't ever go a day without making eye contact. And to me, eye contact is something that has really, really fallen away.

Powerful. Especially the phones.

Just like this.

Right?

Yeah. And I have, yeah, I say I've played football in grade school, junior high, high school, college, and then raced motocross for a long time. And my elbows are really bad and I can't Button this button on my shirt and try to do it with one hand. It takes forever, so forever. Robin always has to do this button on my shirt. So every day I have to change suits twice a day and all that. So Robin always buttons this button and stuff like that. So at least twice a day, she's always right here doing that button. And every time she does, we make eye contact right there when she's doing that button. And she will tell you that that's a special quiet moment every day when she buttons that button and makes eye contact. Nobody knows what's going on. But that's a private moment twice a day when she does my button and puts that on.

What happens if in those moments, you're maybe distracted or preparing for the next show that's coming out? Are you just, like, frantic? You're eating something, you know, it's just like the producers are in your ear. How do you stay focused and present.

In those moments when she's doing that?

Yeah, when she's.

You can't be that close to her and look her in the eye and be distracted. Okay.

You're just there.

Yeah. You'd have to know she's. She'll get your attention. Yeah.

She'll find a way. She'll do something. That's beautiful.

Eye contact.

I think people have lost the art of eye contact. Like you said, it's something that I love to talk about and love to. I almost love to be awkwardly looking people in the eyes to see can they look at you back? You know, whether it be in an intimate relationship or a friend. I do this with hugs is all. Also, I hug people for a really long time to see, like, okay, can they be intimate and connected, or is it uncomfortable for them?

I've got a new show on CBS, a new primetime series called House Calls with Dr. Phil. And the first thing that I've done with a lot of these couples that are in such dire straits is just have them stand up and make eye contact. And you would be astounded at the difference it makes when I make them stand there and make eye contact.

What happens when they do that just for a few seconds? Is it minutes?

No, I make them stand there and make eye contact, and I have them. The first one I did, I had them make eye contact and really hold it way past the point of comfort and then say one of four things. I trust you. I don't trust you. I don't know if I trust you or I'd rather not say. What usually happens, it's a real Powerful moment.

Wow.

These are people married.

Yeah. Yeah. And in the first episode, her son had died from a drug overdose, and she blamed her husband for cutting him off, and they really hadn't touched in two years. Oh, man. And in that moment, they hadn't really looked at each other, and she looked him in the eye and just totally broke down and collapsed in his arms and said, of course I trust you. What have I been thinking? Just in the first 30 seconds of that episode, just making eye contact brought him back to, what am I doing?

Why do you think we're so afraid to connecting the eyes?

It's intimacy. It's intimacy. That's Robin and my two boys. Oh, wow.

Very kind souls.

Yeah.

That's beautiful. I could talk to you for many hours about this, and hopefully I can have you back on sometime in the future, Dr. Phil. But I want to ask a final few questions to wrap things up. And again, thank you for your time and all of your years of wisdom. Very relatable. And I think this relationship section specifically is going to be powerful for a lot of people. This is a question I ask everyone towards the end called the Three Truths. It's a hypothetical question. I'd like you to imagine that you get to live as long as you want to live on this Earth, but eventually it's your last day, and you continue to accomplish all of your dreams and have the relationships you want to have. But for whatever reason, in this hypothetical scenario, all of your content has to go somewhere else. It's not here on earth anymore. So all of your shows, your videos, your books, this podcast, it's gone for whatever reason. But you have three lessons you get to share with the world. I call it Three Truths. The three things you would kind of leave behind as lessons for people to live by. What would you say would be those three truths for you?

I think number one would be, this is no dress rehearsal. So recognize you get one bite at this apple. It's no dress rehearsal, so. Don't waste time, because I do think we, like I said, let days turn into weeks, weeks turn into months, and then we look back and say, where did it all go? This is not a dress rehearsal, so grab on and make the most of it. And I think, secondly, I think people really struggle with that existential crisis of feeling emptiness at different stages in their life. And I would tell people, when you feel that emptiness, the best way to feel it is, is to give away that which you need the most. If you're feeling lonely, find someone that you can see and Tell is more lonely than yourself, and give them what you need. We've been through this quarantine. There are people, maybe it's an elderly person living in your apartment building or down on the corner, and you know they're alone. You know they don't have family. And you're sitting there and you're feeling disconnected and alone and empty. Go give to that person. Knock on their door, back up 612ft and say, hey, I know you're here by yourself, and I'm on the way to the store. Can I pick something up from you and leave it on the front porch? You probably don't want to give me your cell phone number, but here's mine. If you would like to FaceTime and talk, or if you're mowing your yard, just keep going across your driveway and mow theirs. Give away what you need the most. I promise you it will fill you up faster than anything you can do. Give away what you need. It will heal you faster than anything you could ever imagine.

Yeah, okay. That's number two.

Number three, I would tell people to really be your own best friend. You know, we judge people really harshly, but we don't realize how harshly we judge ourselves. I had the privilege of being friends with Maya Angelou before she passed, and she's known for being such a great poet and all, but she was also a really good woman and had a great sense of humor and was a lot of fun. But she said something one time that really struck me, and she said, you did what you knew how to do, and when you knew better, you did better. And I think that really describes the human experience. I think we do the best we know how to do at the time, and when we know better, we do better. I say that to heroin addicts. They say, I'm a piece of heroin addict. You know, you're doing the best you can today, and when you know better, you'll do better. We got to cut ourselves some slack, and we need to be our own best friend and not judge ourselves so badly. When we have more tools, we have more coping skills, we'll do better. Just don't give up. I'm the incurable optimist. I truly am. And I think the human race is going to be okay. I know right now we're not getting along as a society, and we're divided. People say, oh, it's the worst division we've ever had. I guess they forget about the Civil War. I just tell everybody, don't be so hard on yourself. You're doing the best you can. If you want to do better, learn better.

That's beautiful.

Yeah.

I want to acknowledge you, Dr. Phil, for the decades of service you've had to so many people, from one on one to millions every day now, and even beyond that on the Internet now, to even tens of millions every day with your videos and your content that's being spread viral. The fact that you continue to show up, you continue to learn and continue to serve for me is an inspiring model of how to be a human being. So I really want to acknowledge you for helping really raise a lot of people when they were 8, 10, 12, that are now parents 20 years later that are helping raise their kids with your same content and evolving it. And I just really appreciate the example you set for the level of service that you have on so many people. It means a lot.

Well, I appreciate your saying that. I truly try to be a good steward of this platform. I think it's a privilege to have this platform. And I think when you're given that platform, it comes with a lot of responsibility and. And I kind of have a shoot from the hip delivery style and I speak in colloquialisms and stuff sometimes. And I think sometimes people might not realize how seriously I take the stewardship of that platform because I have kind of a relaxed way of dispensing the information I dispense. But I take it very, very seriously. We have an advisory board at Dr. Phil that's made up of the top minds in psychology, psychiatry, medicine, sociology, theology. They're from the top learning centers in the country. These are the people that are the editors of the peer review journals and stuff that if I have a complex case, I can send it to them and we consult on it. So I can give only evidence based advice and stuff. I think people don't realize how much goes into the information that I put out because I have a kind of relaxed way of. Of doing it. I think it betrays how much preparation goes into it sometimes.

I think the greatest of all time make everything look effortless because they spend decades of preparation and hours before every game or every play really preparing so that it is relaxed feeling, in a sense.

Robin, Oprah told me one time, she said, the biggest problem you will ever have is you make it look too easy.

You're just like nonchalantly sharing this wisdom.

Yes, she said you make it look. You make it look too easy and it betrays how hard you work at it. I didn't know what she meant at the time, but I think after 20 years, I realized maybe that's true. Maybe I should sweat more.

You're in your 20th season now of Dr. Phil. They can watch it on TV. You're also all over the Internet now on YouTube and this massive TikTok sensation. If you guys haven't subscribed over on YouTube and TikTok and fill in the blanks. The podcast is incredible. You're an amazing interviewer, and you have stories on so many incredible people that are your friends that you get to bring on, you know, the Oprah interview and Jay Leno and all these other people. Incredible stories. So they can subscribe there. I'm not sure if you're doing that right now consistently, if you're on a pause for that, but I was.

I just started back up and I'm getting ready to. So good. I'm getting ready to start doing a series on different personality disorders.

Oh, wow.

How to handle, like, the narcissistic. Narcissistic personality and borderline personality and some of those people that drive us crazy.

That'll be powerful. So you've got that. You've got this new show, House Calls. Right.

Right.

What else can we support subscribe to be a part of?

Well, I hope everybody watches Bull. Bull is on Thursday nights on CBS at 10. That's based on my life before Dr. Phil. And we're in our sixth season. Michael Weatherly stars as Dr. Bull, and we've had great fun with that.

Okay.

We've got that animal rescue show on cbs, All Access and the Doctors and Daily Mail tv. We've got lots of shows out there.

You're a machine. You've created that amazing model. That's fun for me to watch and see as I'm building my career. So I'm going to keep watching and keep admiring what you're creating. It's really cool to see how you've built and reinvented and given platforms to so many other people. People as well.

Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it. Of course.

Of course.

I have my final question before you run. What's your definition of greatness?

To me, I think greatness has to do with being able to go home at the end of the day and feel like you have had a genuine impact on someone's life besides your own. I think if you can say, I did something today that impacted the human experience, then that's a great thing to have done. Doesn't matter what effect it had on you. But if you've helped someone else on their journey, I think that's a great thing. To do. No matter what effect it had on you, if you lifted somebody else up, I think God would smile on that.

Yeah, There you go, Dr. Phil. Thank you so much. Appreciate it, sir.

Thank you so much for listening. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's show with all the important links and also make sure to share this with a friend. Leave us a review over on Apple Podcast and subscribe over on Apple Podcasts as well. I really love hearing feedback from you guys, so share a review over on Apple and let me know what part of this episode ran resonated with you the most. And if no one's told you lately, I want to remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great. Hey everybody, it's Rob Lowe here. If you haven't heard, I have a podcast that's called Literally with Rob Lowe, and basically it's conversations I've had that really make you feel like you're pulling up a chair at an intimate dinner between myself and people that I admire, like Aaron Sorkin or Tiffany Haddish, Demi Moore, Chris Pratt, Michael J. Fox. There are new episodes out every Thursday, so subscribe please and listen wherever you get your podcasts.