Esther Perel: The #1 Reason Relationships Are FAILING Today! How To Create Love That Lasts & Have Better Sex

We have never expected more from romantic love than we do today. Seriously, we want literally one person to give us what usually an entire village used to provide. We've never been more free and we've never been more alone. She's been called the goddess of love and connection with two books and her wildly popular podcast, Where Should We Begin?

The one, the only psychotherapist and best selling author. Her name is Esther Perel.

Sex is just a coded language for our deepest emotional needs. Because tell me how you were loved and I will know a lot about how you make love interesting. This kind of modern definition of intimacy into me. See, because I come to you and I don't just want you to give me advice. I want you to look at me.

In the eyes, understand me fully.

I want you to respect me, value me, validate me. And I want you to help me transcend my existential alone so that I never feel alone anymore. Wow, honey, can you deliver?

What would you say are three tools that people who are single should start to work on so that they can enter a healthy relationship? Or if someone's in a healthy relationship, how they can keep it thriving and not fading?

Okay.

The Kia Sportage Turbo Hybrid has a bold design, a spacious interior with 232 horsepower and a 12.3-inch panoramic display.

To keep the adventure going and fit.

With with the way you live. And with Sirius xm, every drive comes.

Alive, bringing you closer to the music.

The sports talk and podcasts that you love right in your vehicle or on the SiriusXM app. Every SiriusXM equipped Kia Sportage Turbo Hybrid includes a three month trial, so the.

Experience begins the moment you drive.

Learn more@kia.com sportage-hybrid Kia Movement that inspires.

This message is brought to you by Apple Card. Apple Card members can earn unlimited daily cash back on everyday purchases wherever they shop. This means you could be earning daily cash on just about anything, like a slice of pizza from your local pizza place or a latte from the corner coffee shop. Apply for Apple Card in the Wallet app to see your credit limit offer in minutes. Subject to credit approval. Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City Branch terms and more at applecard.com the School of Greatness is sponsored by Capital One. Nowadays, most people subscribe to everything music, tv, even dog food. And it rocks until you have to manage it all. Which is where Capital One comes in. Capital One credit cardholders can easily track, block or cancel reoccurring charges right from the Capital One mobile app at no additional Cost with one sign in, you can manage all your subscriptions all in one place and Learn more@Capital1.com Subscriptions Terms and Conditions apply.

Welcome to Esther Perel Summit of Greatness. Very excited.

Years. How many years are we doing?

Oh, man.

Well, you.

We first met, what I think it was at Summit. Summit series. I think it was like 10 years ago or something, right? I think I saw you give a presentation and we were on a cruise ship. Was it the cruise ship? I can't remember.

2016, 17, but. But the main thing is not only how many years. We too have a relationship, that we have just supported each other back and forth and there's not many people that are always there for me the way you are. I just want to acknowledge that before I talk.

I first heard you speak again years ago and I was just like, I need to meet this person. She's incredible. I need to have her on my show. I need to support her and elevate her. Because what you were saying, I was like, everyone is struggling with this. Everyone was struggling with what you were talking about back then. And it seems like now more than ever, people are struggling in relationships, especially after Covid. It's like either everyone got together during COVID or everyone broke up during COVID The political season happening now. People are realizing, oh, we don't have the same political views. Can we make this work? People want intimacy and connection more than ever, but they're more connected to their phones and they're less present and willing to be vulnerable and loving and courageous and open minded. Why do you feel like it's harder than ever to be in a healthy, loving, committed relationship? Or are you seeing, with all the work that you're doing, the touring you're doing, the community you have, that people are just happy and they have no relationship problems.

Who is just happy? I think that both things are happening. I mean, look, what did you begin to say? I spent four years really digging into myself because I knew that I have to change my relationship to myself to be able to be available for others. And I thought as I was listening, I said, the question is never, no, maybe this way. Everybody has relationship issues they need to address. Everybody, me included. Everybody. The only thing is not if you're going to do it, but with whom. Who is the person with whom you're going to say, I'm ready to do this work? So we have never expected more from romantic love than we do today. Seriously. We want literally one person to give us what usually an entire village used to provide. Here are all the things I want with companionship, economic support, family life, social status, the. The stuff that our parents and grandparents said. But then I want you to be my best friend and my trusted confidant and my intellectual equal and my efficient co parent and my fitness buddy and my professional coach and my spiritual personal development guru. And last but not least, my passionate lover.

Oh, man. Wow.

So this is my list of what I want to find. And this is happening at a time when we have the complete under resourced relationships with the loss of the traditional structures. No social hierarchies, no community for many of us in the west, no religious guidance. And so everything is negotiated. Everything is negotiated. And that means that we need to have very good communication skills. But we don't have the communication skills because nobody's talking to each other. So there's a bit of a contradiction happening. We want a lot. We can have more than we've ever had. We have the possibilities for so many choices that my grandmother couldn't dream about, but we don't have the tools to actually give us the possibility to establish.

What would you say are three tools that people who are single should start to work on so that they can enter a healthy relationship? Or three tools, if someone's in a healthy relationship, how they can keep it thriving and not fading.

Okay, I'll start with the second first. I don't know if it's tools or ways of thinking. The first thing is that not only did I describe this enormous list of what, of what we look for in a partner, but on top of it, we want to do it without a community. A couple lives in an ecosystem. A couple is never just a relationship of two. It's all the people that are in the bed with you that you're not even aware of. But it's also who is there to support you. And I think the loss of community is really a major piece of what makes it challenging to be healthy. Because it means that, you know, if I can't talk to you, I can go talk to a girlfriend about certain things. There's some things that I should just not expect from you. And rather than, you know, Moses and the rock, I'll beat, I'll beat, I'll beat. And maybe water will flow. No, sometimes the water doesn't flow, you.

Know, so A is so we're expecting our partner to listen to us about everything all the time, as opposed to.

Your partner cannot give you what the whole village or community should provide. Get the community, number one.

Community is a great community, is huge Huge.

You need other people who think about you, who care about you, who pay attention to you, who compliment you, you know, the whole thing, who seduce you, the whole thing. But it needs more than one before.

You go on to the next one. I just want to add to that something, that the reason I feel safe in my relationship with Martha is because she has incredible community. She doesn't bring me her problems first all the time, Right? First she talks to her mom, then her sister, then her girlfriends, then her cousins, then her aunts then, which is amazing. Then it's kind of tired her out. She's like, okay, I don't need to talk about this anymore. Right? Then if she still needs to talk about it, she can talk to me.

And then you say, what, did you mother your aunt?

Exactly. I say, what do they say? What advice did they give you? Okay, cool.

I like that.

Okay, yeah, here's what we can do. But it's not. It's not coming to me first. Sometimes she comes to me right away with something, and that's great, but it's not. Every time there's a breakdown. I need to talk to you about this. It's, like, urgent or I'm feeling overwhelmed and stressed.

It's extremely important to diversify your relationships in your life. It just holds you. You cannot burden one person. And on top of this, this whole list that I make this kind of modern definition of intimacy right into me. See, because I come to you and I don't just want you to give me advice. I want you to look at me.

In the eyes, understand me fully.

I want you to respect me, value me, validate me, reflect back to me. And I want you to help me transcend my existential alone so that I never feel alone anymore. Wow, honey, can you deliver. So it's that thing. That's why I say community first. Because your relationship will be stronger when it doesn't stand alone. The second thing is, your relationship will be stronger when you don't treat it like a cactus. It means that you bring the best of yourselves to work and you take it to every other place. And then when you come home, you put your feet up and you feel like you can take your nice clothes off and you don't have to make an effort anymore. And here is the thing. And then we wonder why people are not having sex. Modern intimacy.

Modern intimacy. I'm curious. You mentioned something. We haven't gotten to tool number two yet, but you mentioned something about the west and today and, you know, cell phones and social media and things like that. But you also mentioned, I think you mentioned religion and God at one point.

Yep.

How important, you know, do you feel is religion or having God in the middle of a relationship for the Western society to thrive? Do you see relationships that have that thrive better than a lack of God or religion or some type of spiritual.

Practice in traditional societies? But they may be right here. This is not just like you have to travel far for that. Religion is a central hierarchy that tells you how to believe, how to act, how to react. It gives you the steps. Relationships in that culture are usually organized around duty and obligation. Religion doesn't ask you, what do you feel like doing, honey, you know, religion tells you what to do. And religion then helps you with three most important pieces. One is how do you make sense of the unintelligible? Every religion deals with that. The second thing is religion helps you deal with suffering. Not that you won't suffer, but how to bear it. And the third thing that religion helps you with is evil. Why do people act in ways that are so harmful to others? Every religion does this and so does every social structure. It may have a God in the midst of it, or it may not. But this thing about the soulmate on the nap, when you think about what is it that people mean by the one and only, that's the soulmate? Is that today? And you tell me if that's not religious. I want to experience with you wholeness, transcendence, belonging, meaning and ecstasy. Everything that we used to look for in the realm of the divine. So we still are no less religious. We just don't call it like this and we don't look for it in the same place. But psychedelics and everything else included, we may call it spirituality, but fundamentally, these are basic human needs, and we will look for them either here or there, but the needs won't change.

Yeah, okay.

Makes sense.

Makes sense. A lot of your work around eroticism lately has been inspiring a lot of people. I'm curious, are people having less sex and are being less intimate with their sexual connection as well and less eroticism in general? And if so, is that just because they're so addicted to phones and they're tired and exhausted or not present in most theaters?

I go, there's a lot of bad sex, which means the issue about having sex doesn't mean it's a good experience. You can have plenty of sex and feel nothing, and you can do very little and feel a ton. So I don't want to answer the question with, are people having less sex because people have done sex for centuries and had miserable experiences. Women know that, okay, Men have it too, but they don't always know it. That's the only thing. Because they've been pumped to take whatever they can get.

So.

All right, back to your question. So I think when I start like this, I say, okay, so then, what's the next thought? The next thought is my invitation for us not to think about sex as something that we do, but to think about sex as an experience. To not think about performance and outcome, but to think about sex is a place you go. It's a trip you take. You take it inside yourself, with another, with others. And so then the question is, where do you go? What do you want to experience there? What parts of yourself do you connect with? Is it to be naughty? Is it to be feft fun? Is it to have a spiritual union? Transcendence, to be taken care of, to surrender safely? Where do you go? And when you say it like that, then the next piece is sex is just a coded language for our deepest emotional needs. So because I think, and this is the key for me, is that we think we're talking about sex because it spliques sex. But what it says, even if it's just hit and run, sex has emotional meaning.

What type of meaning does it have?

Meaning what you were talking about. I was afraid. I cannot imagine that your being less afraid did not translate in how you make love today. Because tell me how you were loved and I will know a lot about how you make love.

Interesting.

And if you say, I was afraid to be with you, I was afraid not to be with you, I was afraid to leave you, I was afraid to reveal myself to you. Well, then your sexuality took care of all of those fears. Because our emotional history is inscribed in the physicality of sex. Now, I just took six months to create courses on sexuality because I thought, how do I explain then the difference between sex and eroticism? Because eroticism is sexuality transformed by our imagination. It's everything that gives sex meaning. Otherwise, we are animals. Animals have sex and people have an erotic mind. And in that erotic mind, they imagine a ton of stuff. Bizarre stuff, stuff that is irrational, stuff that makes no sense, stuff that they would fight against during the days, completely turning them on at night. I mean, that erotic mind is the most fascinating organ that exists in us.

Why do humans do that so much?

Ah, but we don't know. And why is it that the thing that gets you completely excited is the biggest disgust for the other? I mean, how do. It's one of the. I mean, there's a reason you become a sexologist. It's fascinating, right, to figure that out, to understand how play. How the power of our imagination takes care of our fear, our inhibitions, our wounds, our longings, and turns them into a coded language like dream, you know, and to which you can. It's like when children play, you pretend. I mean, are you the policeman? No, you're not the policeman, but you're going to talk to me for 20 minutes like you are the policeman or the fireman or the. You know. I'm talking about the kid now. I didn't mean to say. It's a sexual fantasy.

Oh, man, I know what your fantasy is. You're gonna go to Vegas, get the stripping. Tails. Let's go. You know.

So the goal is, how do you help people not have more sex, but feel more in sex, be more present, be more engaged, experience fun, feel loved, feel desired, feel wanted. This is the idea. And all of those things be more curious and not just a foregone conclusion. That is training people to feel alive, vibrant, vital. That's the erotic. I think that our society has spent a tremendous amount of attention to how you get people to get it done. And they have found somewhat of a solution for the dudes, and they are on a quest to find that little pill for the women. But female sexuality is defying any pill for the moment, and they can't get her to get the female Viagra so that she will just get it done. And I would love to invite you to never embrace industrial policies for the erotic.

There you go. I've shared many times on my podcast, I think I've shared with you in our interviews as well, that I experienced sexual abuse when I was a kid, and I felt like it definitely imprinted something in me that it took years to heal.

Absolutely.

One in four women have some type of sexual abuse, and one in six. One in six boys and men. And so 4,000 people in the room. I can imagine there was some foul play to some extent for a number of people here at some age, whether they remember it or not. And there are some who are adults who just had bad sexual experiences. Maybe it was consensual, but it was just like you said, it wasn't enjoyable. For anyone in here who's experienced any type of sexual wounds, how can they start to heal so that they can feel free in a relationship that can open up even more and feel safe in that intimacy and that eroticism and not feel shameful or not feel wounded or not feel Guarded or how can people start to heal sexually?

There are three. This is going to be a short answer to a question that deserves a book.

Yes.

But there are three main pieces that I draw from the work of Holly Richmond about the recovery. One is when you are able to reclaim control. But the control is not about saying no. The control is actually about saying yes. There is no greater freedom than voluntarily giving yourselves over. That's the thing that is robbed from us when we are coerced. So that first piece is control. But I'm going to repeat it. The control is often misunderstood as I have the power to say no. No, that's a piece of it. That's a given. It's. I have the power. I have the choice to say yes. Control. The second one is connection.

Before you go there, what does the choice to say yes mean? Yes to what?

To giving myself to you, to being with you, to trusting you, and to giving myself the permission to enjoy. There is no greater vengeance for anyone who has experienced abuse than to reclaim control, connection and pleasure. It's, you know, and I like the word. There is no greater vengeance because it says, you didn't get the best of me. You don't get to rule the rest of my life. You ruled those months, those years, those nights. But I reclaimed it.

Yes. Let's go. Let's go.

You know, so the choice of the giving is that you basically allow yourself to slowly. The word is slow. You stop, you breathe, you say hold on. And you have someone who is completely there for you. The healing is in that you don't have for a moment. Afterwards, it shifts to negotiate, making sure that I'm pleasing you while I'm taking care of me. It's okay. That's the healing thing. And then the second part is the connection is that I don't have to dissociate from myself or from you.

My.

While I'm lying there or standing there, whatever. It's that I actually know that I am here and that I don't have to. That I am actually proud of being here, that I deserve it, that I'm entitled to it, that I'm worthy of it. All those fundamental things that are the offset of shame.

The school of Greatness is brought to you in partnership with Airbnb. The holidays are such a special time to travel and gather with loved ones. Think about some of your best trips. Those cozy spaces, thoughtful touches, and the feeling of being right at home wherever you are. Now imagine getting to provide that same experience for someone else. Because when you travel, your place is just sitting empty while you're away. Hosting on Airbnb can be a no brainer. And in a season where new experiences creating lasting memories, it's a unique way to help others make their own. And Martha and I both travel a lot, especially with her family in Mexico and mine all over the usa. So we know what it's like to be on the go during the holidays. And from our experience, hosting has always been easy and straightforward. And whether you're traveling often or just once in a while, it can be a simple way to earn a little extra while you're away. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much@airbnb.com host the holidays.

Are here and with them comes all the cheer and the spending and I think we've all felt the pressure of.

Finding the perfect gift for the perfect.

Price and and those prices are sure giving us a run for our money. You know how it goes. One gift turns into 10. You're trying to stay on budget and before you know it you've spent half a day scrolling, comparing prices and wondering if you should have just gotten everyone gift cards.

It can feel a little stressful trying to make it all feel special without breaking the bank, but luckily you can.

Get the holiday savings at Metro with.

The most wonderful deal of the season. Get one one line of 5G for only $25 a month and a five year price guarantee on talk, text and data.

The best part is that you can keep the phone you love and keep.

Your number and no activation fees. And that's what I'm talking about. A deal that actually lasts five years locked in. That's peace of mind right there at Metro. Get that more for your money feeling, visit your local store today. $25 a month with autopay $30 your first month guarantee exclusions apply. See site for details. Cold mornings holiday plans this is when you need your wardrobe to just work. Stuff that looks sharp, feels good and you'll actually reach for quints. Makes gifting easy when everything's worth keeping for yourself. By partnering directly with trusted factories that maintain high standards for craftsmanship and ethical practices, Quint cuts out the middlemen and markups. That means premium quality at half the cost of other high end brands. So you can give luxury pieces without the luxury price tag. And it goes beyond their clothes. Quint also has incredible home and bedding options to make your home cozy this season. Martha and I have the European linen duvet cover set from Quince and let me tell you, the duvet set is so soft and high quality. We highly recommend get your wardrobe sorted and your gift list handled with quints. Don't wait. Go to quint.com Lewis for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com L E W I S free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com Lewis and then the third one.

Is I have pleasure. I'm not just getting it done. I'm doing it when I'm experiencing the way I enjoy the way you enjoy it. It's pleasurable. It is filled with imagination, playfulness, curiosity, serendipity, you know. And that concept of pleasure for me is the greatest vengeance.

There you go. That's good. I'm curious. Show of hands if you're in a relationship currently. Show of hands if you're in a relationship currently. For the people in a relationship, what's a great question that someone, if someone desires to have deeper intimacy, eroticism, you know, deeper levels of sexual play, but they feel afraid that their partner isn't willing to express that same sentiment. How can they shape that conversation? What's a question they can ask? How could they start it where they, you know, to make sure that they're bringing their partner with them on the journey without feeling bad.

There's a bunch of them in here, by the way, in case you can you. There are many. It can go. It depends. First of all, if we're having the conversation while we're sitting at the kitchen table or if we're having the conversation while we're in bed. In bed or, you know, I think that many conversations that are challenging are better. Not in bed, leave the bed for the good experiences, you know.

So before you go on, that's an agreement that me and Martha made early on because we were, you know, I think when you're getting in a relationship, you're learning about each other, you're connecting. Oh, what's that thing that kind of made me feel weird or I don't know about this thing. Can you explain more? And we would have conversations like at, you know, 10, 11, 12 o' clock at night. And I remember just saying, I want to be here for you. I want to be present, I want to give to you, I want to listen to you, but my brain is falling asleep right now. It's so hard for me to, like, sit up and like, get present and really be like intimate with you and like, listen to you. And I think Maybe it's more her natural way of being of just like, oh, she wants to share whenever she wanted to share, but I needed to speak up and say, listen, I love you. And because I love you, I want to give you my best.

Yes. I want to be here before 10.

O' clock at night.

Yes, yes.

But after 10 o' clock at night, let's just be peaceful and have simple conversations. You know, let's talk about what we're grateful for. But by having the courage to say, speak up and create that agreement, we have alignment and we have harmony now. And I think a lot of people lack that courage.

So I want to hear what you have to say. I really want to be there and I can't do this now. I think that what this highlights is that the person who doesn't want to talk, there's two parts to this. Whenever it is in bed or 10 o' clock or the person who doesn't want to talk has the permission to just say, I don't want to talk right now because I won't be giving you the attention that you and I deserve. And the second part is whoever says not now is the one who is responsible to come back when.

Yes.

Do you understand?

So I can't speak right now, but let's do it tomorrow afternoon.

Or you don't say when you come back the next day and you say, do you know that conversation? I would love for us to have it, but. Because what happens if you don't come back? Then the other person starts when is going to happen? And now I'm following you around the house, you know, are we ever going to talk about this stuff, the voidant person, and then it becomes a whole. I think it's very important that whoever says I can't do it now has the right to do it. Just know that if you are the one who then re engages, it builds tremendous trust.

Yes. They appreciate it.

Yes. So questions to ask about sex.

Yes.

What's the biggest fallacy about sex that you grew up with? What's the biggest piece of bull people told you, you know, the biggest myth? What's something that changed for you around your sexuality? What's the risk that you took sexually? When you love, how does it feel? And when you desire, how is it different?

What if someone doesn't like hearing about someone's sexual past?

Lots of people don't. Lots of people don't. It sometimes can be narcissistically challenging. There was somebody else before me and was that person better? And did you enjoy it? More and more, all of that. Some people love it, some people get turned on to it. It covers the range. And it's not always one thing. Sometimes it depends about whom. On this one I can listen. That one I don't, because that one came just before me. Or that one, whatever. It's not a black and white. Like, I'm the one who can never hear. I sometimes am the one who can never hear. When you talk about those kind of stories, you respect it. Go tell your friends. I mean, you don't pump, you know, inject stuff into a person who's not gonna he. They are not going to do anything good with it. It's like, keep your stories. They're yours. They're your life, you know? Monogamy no longer exists in reality in the sense that by the time it used to mean one person for life. Now monogamy is one person at a time. And if you used to marry in order to have sex for the first time, now you marry and you stop having sex with others. For many of us anyway, so distinct monogamy only exists in fantasy in some way, but not in our reality. We've had multiple partners. This is a new thing for us to. To deal with new meaning about 60 years. So that doesn't mean it didn't exist before, but it was clandestine, so you didn't have to worry about the question of what about the partner who doesn't want to hear because you would never tell it. That's kind of what changed. Now if you're with someone, I think it's interesting to find out what threatens you, what's scary about it? Why not? I mean, I actually would love to hear. I don't want to tell you, you know, but I do want to hear. Yeah, but I don't.

What threatens you about what?

About knowing that I've had other people, that I've been with others, traveled with others, slept with others, sucked others, done everything, you know, that it's not you, that you're not the first one, and that not everything rides on you, and that you're not going to be the one who deflowered. And this is in a hetero context, you know, it's like, no, you're not the one one. That. So it really says, here's what it threatens. It says, we are replaceable, we are not indispensable, and we are not unique. And in our culture of individualism, that's a slap in the face.

Yes. Wow.

You know, it's that it says, yes, there was before, and they could even be after. We live with that once you were in love, relationships or marriages where you got put together or you chose and then there was a triple lock at the door and you could never leave. You know, basically you married once for a lifetime and that's what it was. And if you didn't like it, people, you could always hope for an early death of your partner.

Wow.

Oh man, oh man.

But that was it. Once you you have no longer tight knots but loose threads, you fall in love, you break up, you fall in love with someone else. Most of us in the west today will have two or three marriages or adult relationships in our lifetime. Some of us will do it with the same person, but we know that we are not the only one. And yet the whole romantic ideal is about the soulmate and the one and only. And that's the clash inside of us. We know it, but we pretend and we want you to promise me that I am that person and they will never be. And yet maybe they won't be after me, but they certainly was before me. And that says we are replaceable. That's existentially we grieve, we mourn and we love again. Lucky for us. But that's the threat.

You work all over the world. You work with the biggest celebrities and billionaires and people that are unknown and going through normal day challenges. You work with people who have been together for a long time, who have had affairs and gotten back together. You work with people for a long time on these topics. Where do you feel like people have the happiest relationships in the world that you've experienced? Or at least they say they do. And what do they have in common in those places where they're the the. Not that everything's going to be perfect, but where are they the happiest?

Are you ready to finally hit your target nutrient levels every day? Meet Gruns. The daily snack pack of gummies isn't just a multivitamin. It's not just a green gummy. And it's not just a prebiotic. It's all of that rolled into one and then some at a fraction of the price.

And.

And they taste great. Here's what makes them stand out. While most multivitamins only cover 7 to 9 vitamins, groons bring together over 20 vitamins and minerals plus more than 60 nutrient dense whole food ingredients. And those ingredients are known to support things like gut, health, energy, immunity, recovery, cognition and even beauty. Because it's in gummy form, your body has an easier time absorbing it. Also, we have packs in our studio and they've been a game changer for everyone in the studio. We, we've run out so quickly. No powders, no handfuls of pills, just a pack of tasty gummies. And I'm fueling my body with the nutrients it needs. Use code greatnessruns co to save up to 52% off your first order. That's code greatness at gruns co for up to 52% off. This show is sponsored by betterhelp. You know, the holidays can feel a lot like balancing family expectations, travel, work, and trying to make everything perfect.

It's easy to forget to take care.

Of yourself in the middle. Middle of it all. I've been there and what I've learned is that when you don't make space to slow down, it's hard to actually enjoy the moments that matter Most. That's why BetterHelp is encouraging you to rewrite your traditions this season by making time for you. Incorporating therapy into your routine can help you pause, reflect, stay grounded during what can be joyful but sometimes hectic or even lonely time of the year. The holidays look different for everyone. Maybe it's baking your great aunt's sweet potato pie, or maybe it's starting something new, like a quiet night with friends. Therapy can be one of those new traditions, too. Better Help matches you with a licensed therapist based on your goals and preferences. And if it's not the right fit, you can switch anytime this December, start a new tradition by taking care of you. Our listeners get 10% off@betterhelp.com Louis that's betterhelp.com Louis.

So that's a very interesting question. And by the way, I didn't answer the question about people dating who want to be in a relationship.

We can get back. Yes. Don't leave us out.

Didn't forget you. I don't know that it's geographic.

Okay. All right.

In places where the community is really strong, which a lot of people come here from countries where you at the heart of your life is this community, extended family and all of that, you get support, you get a lot of clarity, but you often get very little freedom, which is why so many people come to America and to New York to get that freedom. In places like in New York or in very individualistic places where at the heart of the relationship is not the community, but the individual in search of a community, you have unprecedented freedom. We've never been more free and we've never been more alone. So I don't know a place on the planet where we are more happy. The places where people have a lot of togetherness, people often yearn for separateness, for freedom, for autonomy. The places where people have a lot of individuality and freedom, they yearn for more connection. They yearn to not feel modern loneliness, which kind of masks itself as hyperconnectivity. You can have a thousand virtual friends and no one to feed your cat, no one to pick up a prescription at a pharmacy. That's what we understood in the pandemic. God forbid somebody to pick you up at the airport. Friends and friendship is not the same. So I don't know places where people are more happy geographically, what makes people more happy is to feel that they matter, that people care about them even when they don't see that they take them with them, inside of them, that their relationships are meaningful, nurturing, that they don't judge them and that they also don't ignore them. So it's this kind of nice flexibility between, you know, you're there for me, but you're not. But not on the condition that I do what you want.

Right.

And I have the freedom. But not that you can cancel an hour before dinner, because these days, who cares? Which happens a lot in this town, case in point, of course.

Yeah.

So this is freedom too. Like the freedom to think, do I have better? Is there a better deal for me tonight? You know, and this is also freedom, is that I'm so important that I no longer think about how this is going to affect you, that you may have cook the whole meal and I just at 7 o' clock tell you that I won't show up at 8, that makes people feel.

Yeah.

So lack of respect, what makes us happy is meaning, creativity, flexibility and good laughter.

Good laughter, yes. Yeah. So it's having the community with flexibility, where it's not like you have to do what I tell you to do or otherwise we're not going to love you.

This is why people have family of choice. People create today new communities. People pursue polyamory as a form of community building. I mean, there's a lot of iterations of how to build community, but it doesn't have to be always the people that you grew up with, because they're not always your best community either.

Sure. And what about the single people who have maybe struggled in previous relationships or who maybe took time for themselves, but now they want to attract and create a healthy relationship? How can they do the work for themselves so that they can really see when a person is in front of them that, oh, this is A healthy human being. Let me explore this and not just get into old, similar patterns.

Right. I tend to not like, first of all, the concept of single and coupled, because today you're single and tomorrow you're not. And today you're coupled and tomorrow you're single. There's a lot, much more fluidity these days. But what I do know is we live with belief systems. Relationships are stories. Everyone here has a story about your relationship. And we sometimes hold on to our stories so tightly that we confuse them with the truth. Truth. If I say there are no good men out there, if I say old people are out to get you, if I say I'm a pathological pleaser, if I say people have never cared about me properly, these stories become belief systems that become a part of my confirmation bias. And when we have confirmation bias, it means that I'm now going to look at you and see to what extent this is going to reinforce my belief. And then I'm going to disregard evidence of the rest. So check your assumptions. That's the first thing on the chain. What are your fundamental beliefs with which you enter relationships? And to what extent do you find yourself busy proving that they're true? Which doesn't serve you much.

Right? Right.

Number one. Number two, when you go out on a date, don't turn them into job interviews. They've never seen something less interesting. I mean, people ask questions and then they look to see if they have butterflies. How can that work? It's the most dull, dull kind of encounter. This weird thing that I see has happened. But you go out to date. This is if you get a date, you know, because there are that other experience. And then you have to come back to your life to tell them if you won the lottery or not. And you come back with your shame or with your emptiness. It's dreadful. You know, there was something useful in the other model, the old model. You date, you meet somebody, you bring them to your life, you meet them with your friends. You'll have a thousand data points far more interesting than sitting in some noisy bar and trying to ask questions. And this integration, if the date doesn't work, the date is gone and the friends are here and you continue your life.

Wow.

So this is not about the building of the relationship, but it's about the dating itself. The next thing is that we have a thing in relationships that's very interesting. It's called fundamental attributes.

It means fundamental what?

Attribution error.

Fundamental attribution error.

Yeah. It goes like this. I am complicated and complex. You are simple. When you come late, it's because you don't care. When I come late, it's because there were circumstances in my life to explain why I am late. Mine. Mine is circumstantial. Yours is characterological.

You don't care about me.

You're just a slob. You're just a this, you're just a that. You know, it's a fantastic way we have to organize the world. So that is one of those nasty things that really make relationships not thrive.

Wow.

You know, name calling, the other person, the whole thing. And then I'll ask you one other one that I think is really crucial when you fight, because fighting is a major piece of relationship. It's intrinsic conflict is part of love and relationships, all relationships. But don't think that what matters is what you're fighting about. But always ask yourself, what is it that I'm fighting for? What people fight for when they fight is usually three. You fight for care and closeness. You fight for respect and recognition. And you fight for power and control. Who makes the decisions? Whose priorities matter more? Power and control, caring, closeness. Do you have my back? Can I trust you? And respect and recognition. Can you value me? Most fights you will find are about one of those three things. But that's not what we say. What we say is, why did you leave your shoes? Once again, in my tour, I have this couple and they talk. They fight about the cat closet, the litter, the cat box. And I'm thinking, seriously, we're going to talk here about cat. I mean, this is an important session. And then I understand that when she says, why didn't you close the closet? It has nothing to do with the closet. It has to do with his father, who told him all the time what to do, who stood with his foot on his neck, who never let him breathe. And this guy grew up saying, nobody's going to be the boss of me. This is what he's saying when he says, why shall I close the closet? That's power and control. And then she grew up all alone, taking care of the whole family. Really miserable situation. And when he says, why should I close the closet? You close the closet. What does she hear? I'm going to be alone for the rest of my life. I've always had to do it for everybody. I took care of everyone. And this is going to continue. No, you know, this is. This is the underlying thing. But people will get so caught in the closet and the cat litter. It's phenomenal.

This is. Why.

Do you get. This is the what are you fighting for? Ask yourself that. It will shorten your therapy hours by many.

That's beautiful. This is why me and Martha have one of the electronic robo cat cleaning litters. So no one has to clean the litter. Yeah, it self cleans. It's amazing.

These days we trust.

I know, right? It's amazing. The cat robot. You guys know what I'm talking about. You guys got one? Yeah. Those are good, right? No one's gotta clean it. It's self cleaning. They don't have that for dogs. You just gotta walk them still, you know? So I wanna ask you a. We've got a few minutes left with Esther and I wanna ask you a personal question. I always like to do this with you. We'll see if you wanna receive it or not.

But let's face it, everyone's struggling. Long, busy days. That's why Icebreaker's gum is made for the go getters. With flavor crystals that deliver a bold cooling effect, Icebreakers keeps you refreshed and ready to take on whatever's next. And here's a bonus. The pack fits perfectly in your car, cupholder or bag, so it's within reach when you need it most. Grab Icebreaker's gum online or at a store near you. It's the season to come together over your holiday favorites at Starbucks. Warm up with a creamy caramel brulee latte, get festive with an iced gingerbread chai, or share a velvety peppermint mocha. Together is the best place to be at Starbucks.

You've done a lot of work coaching others for a long time and you've got amazing podcasts. Your podcast. Where Should We Begin? Is Incredible. I don't know if anyone's ever heard this. Where Should We Begin? Is incredible. You've got amazing books, which we have your books out in the bookstore if people haven't gotten them yet. We've got your books here. You've got this game that'll help you. Where Should We Begin? Anyone have this yet? Where Should We Begin? This is an amazing game of stories by Esther Ferreira where you can really connect with your partner on ideas and things like that. You've got an eroticism course as well.

Coming out this week.

We'll have a link for you guys. We'll show you that in a second. For anyone that wants to be more sexually connected in that playful way, you'll be able to tap into that. But I'm curious, with all the research and all the work you've done to help others, what in the Last five years have you received for yourself or had to overcome personally in intimacy, relationships? Again, you help and serve so many people, but sometimes as the coach, you don't get the opportunity to always self reflect and get coached and work through things. Personally, I'm curious, is there anything in the last five years that you've seen a breakthrough personally with your life?

Yes. Yes. And half of me was so excited. I have an answer. And half of me wished I didn't have to have an answer. But you'll hear why. So basically, two years. When did we go to Australia? Two years ago. Two and a half years ago. I came to LA on November 1st. I was with my husband and we were on our way to New Zealand. I was starting a whole tour. My kids were already waiting for us there. And basically we entered the doctor's office and the doctor said, you ain't going on any plane. You're not flying. You have 10% kidney function left.

Wow. For you, for him. For him, for him.

We knew he had kidney issues, but not that bad. Not that bad. That meant. And you know, in the United States there are no organs because the system is set up that if you want to be a donor, you have to specify it on your driver's license. In Belgium, where I'm from, everybody is a donor unless you specify on your driver's license that you don't want to be a donor. So think about that because it really saves lives. But now I needed to find a kidney. Wow. And that meant I needed to let people help me. And I was at a mercy. So I began to talk to small groups of friends. Just grew the circle every time a little bit. Who would like to donate a kidney? I'm not a match. My son is not a match. My other son was not going to be able to do. And it's an amazingly humble, you know, experience to. I was. I had no problem asking, I have to say, I genuinely have no problem asking for help. I am not the person who helps others but can't ask for myself. I am a help.

You're not. You don't. You don't gingerly do the eroticism with asking for help. Yeah, you're not playing.

Exactly.

You're like, give me the help.

And I got a point where we had 10 people, 10 people who were willing to donate but one match.

Wow.

And anyway, the match came through. It was our friend. We brought her over from Europe. We created this whole ritual with friends in my house where we, the night before they went in, instead of it just being an Organ donation. We turned it into a sacred gift. Holy. We sat in a circle and talked about what is our experience in life, about giving and receiving. We brought them together the next day and then for the next months while they were recovering, basically, I had all our friends. This one took them to the hospital every morning at 7. This one cooked, this one this, this one that. And here's the important thing. I live with an expert on community resilience. His work, his lifelong work is about collective trauma and community resilience. But he had never experienced it himself in action.

Wow.

So this is my story.

Oh, my goodness. Oh, my gosh. That's beautiful.

I have not yet told this in public.

Wow, that's beautiful.

This is my first.

What has been the breakthrough of the lesson for you two and a half years later now.

So here's the interesting thing. There is a moment that is a lesson. At one point, early on, I said, I talked to so and so and they said we should go see the doctor so and so, which we're going to see now in L. A. And he said, why do you talk about this with people? I'm entitled to my privacy. Any of you who are in this room, who are that person. And I said, but come on. It's because I talked to these people that I got this name that I now have disappointment that this is how it works. Community. I mean, do you think we're just going to sit here and find a doctor who's going to see us in less than six months? That's what I meant by I talk. And it's about overcoming your shame and thinking that privacy is really nice, but you will die in privacy. And that if you don't want to do it, that's okay, but let the people around you do it for you.

Wow, that's beautiful. That's amazing. And how. How's he doing now?

He's great. It's like a new life. It's impressive. I mean, most surgeries take things out. This one just puts something in.

Wow, that's incredible. And what was the biggest lesson for the donor?

I mean, the donor. What's your experience is you feel like you've given life to someone. And by the way, you live perfectly well with one kidney. So it's really when the most important moment about the donor is that at Mount Sinai they have every year a gathering of the donors, liver donors, kidney donors. And you're in a room with these people. We happen to know ours, but all of the other people. Sometimes it's strangers who just one Day appear like angels. And you watch these people, these unsung heroes, and you just shut the up because, you know, I don't know if I would do it. This is the thing. Would I have done this? Have I known people? Have I heard and I never responded. Like, it's so easy, you know, to think. But no, no. And I watch these people and I just bawled.

Wow, that's a beautiful experience. I'm so glad you shared that. Thank you for sharing that.

I have a question for you.

Yeah?

Uh.

Oh.

No, because I'm pretty open. I mean, because the last time we met, you were just in the engagement, going to therapy, working on it, and here you are. You know, what's the. You know, you said I worked on myself, or we have worked together, but what's the part of yourself that you discovered that you didn't know existed? I have another one afterwards. Is that Makta whispering to you?

The part of me I'm just trying to be present with the whole experience. Part of me, I've discovered that. The part of me I've discovered that.

I knew it didn't exist, that I didn't know existed. The thing that has come out of me that surprises even me.

I think that. I am deserving of incredible love. That's the thing I just said, everybody.

Thank you.

And I think it's been a journey of receiving it. Thank you. But I feel like. For most of my life, and I don't know if anyone can relate, it was about. I felt loved by people. But I also. I think the traumas outweighed the memories of the love. So the traumas were bigger memories of fear, anxiety, and pain. And like, you know, Dan, you're safe, you're loved, you're free. And it's not like there was one person or people. It was just a series of events over time, of all the different series of events. You know, my sexual. Sexual abuse is one of the first memories I have as a human being. And again, that kind of imprints you until you reprogram it, until you create new meaning with it and allow it to and say, how can I use this. This for good? Right? And how can I. This doesn't define me as a thing that happened, and I feel at peace about it. But as a child, you know, that was there. You know, my parents had their struggles. They just really struggled. My dad was a difficult human being. As much as I loved him, he was very difficult and emotionally up and down. So there was not emotional stability from him. So therefore, there was Challenge with them. And my brother was in prison for four and a half years when I.

Was eight years old.

So there was just shame and trauma within the family dynamic that, oh, my older brother, who's my hero is in prison. I love him. Is he a bad guy? Is he a good guy? I feel he's a good guy. Why is he here? Every weekend we would go for hours in the visiting room and be around 20, 30 convicts in their families every week for four and a half years. And so there's traumas there. It's just the picking on, the bullying, the being dyslexic, not being able to read, unable to speak in front of an audience without being terrified. Just all the series of events, I focused more on the traumas than the love. There was a lot of love, but I couldn't feel them. And so learning how to regulate my nervous system and my heart and my body and learn how to breathe with all of it, chaos of the world, relationship challenges from the past, and learning how to say, oh, I am safe no matter what's happening around me, whether I'm going through a disagreement, it doesn't mean my life is at risk, whether someone doesn't like me, it doesn't mean I have to give in to what they're requesting. You know, if I don't feel good right now, that's okay. I know I can transform it and feel good tomorrow. So learning the skills, learning the tools, and doing the deeper healing work has allowed me to feel loved. And really, I think one of the biggest fears was I lacked the courage to end relationships. So I would stay for way longer than I knew. Intuitively, I shouldn't be in this, but I was afraid to be alone. I didn't know how to fully be alone and love myself alone. And I really learned how to do that to where I don't feel like I have to give in to anyone. I'm like, I love myself if I'm alone. And I know that God will provide me in the right direction with what I need. It's not what I want, but I know I'll be provided that. And having that clarity and that inner peace of, I'm going to be okay no matter what happens, lets me be free to be me and feel loved. And I can give myself love and I can receive it from others also, even if I'm not getting it from others in a moment, if I need it, I know how to give it to me in a, you know, in a spiritual way, not like a selfish, oh, I'm loving myself way. And so I think learning that process while healing and creating meaning from all these memories of the past, it just gives me a lot of peace and freedom. And I never had that until really the last four years. So.

Thank you. I think that everything you just said is part of your question. It's part of the answer to the question. How does one prepare oneself to be in a relationship? You know, there's often a pull in a relationship between two polarities. The fear of losing the other and the fear of losing oneself.

Yes, yes.

Fear of abandonment and the fear of suffocation. Yes, I will not leave you, but I will lose myself in order not to be alone. Or the reverse is I leave you all the time. I don't stick around anywhere because I'm afraid that if I hang one more day, I'm going to get trapped. So the fear of alone and the fear of entrapment is. Sorry. Is really at the heart of. It's one way of understanding a lot of what you're talking about. But knowing yourself as well as you do now, what do you think makes you unbearable?

What makes me unbearable?

Yeah. Hard to live with. On occasion.

I'd have to ask Martha that. I think I'm.

You know, it's a question I ask in most first sessions.

Yeah, that's good. What makes me unbearable?

I'm unbearably strong. What makes it hard to live with you?

It's interesting. I would. I mean, you'd have to ask Martha, I guess that probably. But I would think the whole point.

Is, do you have the self awareness? I would ask her the same question.

I would say. Here's what I would say. I mean, I don't know if I.

This is.

You can't say there's nothing unbearable about me, but it's like, no, no.

Live. Unbearable. Hard to live with.

Hard to live with, probably.

I mean.

So see, here's what I'm gonna say something. I felt like I've chosen the most incredible person for me who accepts what most people would think is unbearable.

I'm not talking about her.

I understand, but I don't think I'm unbearable for her.

For people to work with you, for people to be your friend.

I think I have a high standard. I think I have a very high standard, you know, And I've learned how to. Like, even during our conversation, I don't know if you've noticed this, but there's been people talking and noises in the background. Like for the first 30 minutes, that was driving me nuts. And the Old me literally would have stopped you because there was, like, walkie talkies and people running around and things slamming. No one probably heard it out here. But for me, I'm like, it's not a standard that we have prepared for. And so for me, if this was the old me, I probably would have stopped you and said what the f was going on and say, hey, guys, can we stop talking back there? Because I want to make sure we're having a great experience. And so I calmed myself because I didn't go back to the old me. I remembered the future me, the vision of me, and, you know, the old me. We made a mistake. We threw the intro video. No one came out right. We told you a different time, and we. We made a mistake. And I'm over there thinking you're about to walk out. And Matt's like, no, Matt's, like, screaming at me, she's not ready when I'm sitting over there. And I was like, the old me would have been frantic. The old me would have been frantic. And, like, I made a mistake. Like, oh, she's gonna be, like, mad at me that we introduced her.

But she was.

We told her the wrong time. I've ruined the relationship with a stare. The old me would have been, like, apologizing to you for, like, weeks. How can I make it up to you?

When I used to make a mistake in a session, sometimes three weeks, I'd be ruminating, really. You know, now it's three days.

That's good.

I'm aiming for three hours.

That's good. That's good. No, but I mean, I know the standards exactly. No, but I mean, right afterwards, I was like, you know, this is a show. Things are going to happen, and it's like, no one's perfect.

So.

So I think I have a high standard, but I've learned how to let things roll better. And so probably my team, they would probably say the same thing. Like, oh, he expects so much, and he's always wanting more from us or expects a certain level of detail. But I've learned to just be a little more casual on things.

I have one more. Yes, because it's for everybody here, too. This is the question on eroticism, right? What makes you feel alive?

I mean, sexually or you mean, like, in life? I don't know. You said erotic. I'm not gonna go there. I'm gonna keep that.

No alive. But they live side by side. But it's alive. I don't need your sexual description.

I spoke about this. Yeah, right. I spoke about this yesterday and I truly mean this. When I am able to have a big dream on my heart that calls me, pulls me, that inspires me to activate and go after when I have something, I'm like man, I want to create this, I want to do this. I want to for whatever reason and when I'm able to do it and serving or inspiring a lot of people in that journey that really like inspires me.

So that is eroticism. Yes, you use the word creative, inspiring, dream, imagination, energy, aliveness. That is the erotic experience. And I hope that that's what you experienced with us.

I hope you enjoyed today's episode and.

It inspired you on your journey towards greatness.

Make sure to check out the show.

Notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally as well as ad free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our greatness+channel exclusively on I Apple Podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review.

I really love hearing feedback from you.

And it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you if no one has told you lately that.

You are loved, you are worthy and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.

Introducing Fidelity Trader plus with customizable tools and charts you can access across all your devices, try our most powerful trading platform yet@fidelity.com trader+ investing involves risk, including risk of loss.

Fidelity Brokerage Services LLC Member nyse, SIPC.

JBL Wireless Earbuds are packed with innovation. Touchscreen, smart charging case for one touch control, instant EQ customization, true adaptive noise cancellation and a one of a kind audio transmitter to plug and play from almost any source. Plus spatial360 sound on anything the new JBL Wireless Earbuds.