How To Build Confidence, Overcome Perfectionism & Achieve Your Dreams w/ Jordan Fisher EP 1262

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I get excited, but I don't get nervous. I don't feel insecure. And if I do feel insecure, I try to put a stop to it so that I can figure out what that is so that I don't.

Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former.

Pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

What has been the best way for you to connect with people, specifically growing up, you know, being adopted and kind of in the South, I had tWitch on as well. He was like, you know, you kind of dance in the South in Alabama.

No.

He's like, you're not accepted as a guy.

No.

Dancing, singing, bro, doing these things. How did you overcome that?

Well, he was in Montgomery too. Totally. I mean, so much of, there's so much civil rights history all over Alabama, as you can imagine, right? It's all over the place. But I grew up in a football town outside of Birmingham called TrUstful, and one of the only people of color, you know, I was like the only mixed kid in my school.

Really?

Yeah, it was not, five or six black kids, everyone, it was white. I lived in a white football town.

And I was a gymnast.

Right.

You didn't play football, did you?

No.

And then I fell in love with theater and dance and music. Like me in this town with the things that I loved to do and my passion was forcing that square peg through the circle hole. And it just wasn't going, it just wasn't gonna ever be right or feel like the right place for me to be.

Were you ever accepted in school doing those activities and passions?

Through success.

Right.

I think that's the fact that I.

Would get up and sing and I was good and kids would be like, what? That I was accepted then.

Interesting.

Had I not been, but it still be something that I'm really passionate about, it wouldn't have been received the same way, subsequently wouldn't have been treated the same way.

Right.

Which is really interesting.

How were you?

I remember a shift when like all of a sudden every teacher in the school knew who I was and all of them loved me and all of them were like, Jordan! And I was like, interesting.

How old were you then?

I was fifth grade. That was the beginning of my love for art was fifth grade. Really great drama program. And that was the beginning of that. It was from that year, it was January of my fifth grade year to December of my sixth grade year, which would have been just that one, that 12-month period. --Everyone started to see you differently.

--Completely. --Is it 'cause you were performing in front of the school or were you getting notoriety outside of school? --Kind of took over the place.

Like it was, you know, it's sort of with that school play at the beginning of the year, by the end of the year I was in middle school and I had joined a professional theater company, started working professionally, started training with Broadway professionals over that summer and at the beginning of that fall. By the time we got to the fall musical at the school.

And you performed, it was like.

People were like, what is this? Because there was this amazing program in Birmingham, Alabama. Gonna blast it out right now. Red Mountain Theater Company, Birmingham, Alabama. There's nothing like this company. You would never imagine in Birmingham, Alabama would there be the most opportunity to genuinely learn under masters of their craft. Broadway phenoms and directors and choreographers come down and teach and train. And that was my, that was my school. That was my school.

What was the three biggest lessons you learned from that summer experience or that program?

It was that summer that I was like, this is, this is what I want.

Really?

This, I just love this. Like this is it. This is what I want. And then I auditioned for the Lion King on Broadway and I got down to the bottom two. This all happened in one summer, dude.

You're like 11.

Yeah.

That's crazy.

Brand new to it all.

So anyway, period. So if you're, so you're at home with your mom and dad, were you ever, you know, acting or performing or dancing or singing with them until this time?

I was like performative, but not really. Like we would sing in the car. I would, you know, apparently I was tone deaf, apparently I really wasn't a.

Good ask my folks.

So they were never like, you,'re incredible, let's get you in there. No, no, as a matter of fact, I wanted to go on Star Search. David Archuleta was on Star Search and I was such a fan of his, I was like, oh my gosh, he's doing the thing. I was like, I wanna go on Star Search. My folks were like, you,'re not that good. No. And then all of a sudden, dude, they came to the house. Wait, did they say that? They asked me, do you think that if you went on, you would, beat David. And I would go, no. Well, then why would you wanna... Oh my god. You know what I mean? Like, I was, dude, I could not sing. Come on, man.

I'm serious.

I don't know what else to tell you. You're so talented. I mean, so we'll thank Mr. Byers in fifth grade, I guess. I'm a music teacher. I don't know what happened, because to me, always sounded the same. Singing Whitney Houston always sounded the same. Like, I didn't, I thought that I sounded fine. So it blew my mind when people were like, no, you really weren't good, Jay. Like, you weren't good, and then all of a sudden, you were. It was miraculous like that, like genuinely. I can call like five people on the phone right now and they'll tell you the exact same story.

I mean you had to have some type of decent, you couldn't be horrible.

I think that there was a creative side, I watched a lot of movie, I listened a lot of film, TV, listened to a lot of music growing up and had a lot of opportunity Soak in art because I definitely had an affinity for it. So like, I- you- enjoyed it, you appreciate it. Yeah, like I knew what it was and I appreciated it in ways that my, like I would have been just as happy to sit at home and watch movies as a kid when my other friends like wanted to go out and do things. Like I'm happy to go out and play, but like, I also really love just diving into a story that a bunch of people worked their off to build and put together. Sure. That's so fulfilling to me. And by the end of the film, I feel good. I have a new story in my head. My imagination has, Expanded and I feel fulfilled in that way and I think empowering kids to do whatever feels good to them in that way is so important. Obviously balance is really great, but- Right, right.

So your parents never like pushed you into this. They were not like, okay, you've got this little talent, let's put him into classes and things. You were just curious about it. You were, you thought you were so-so.

And then you started doing more of it. I did, I did School of Rock, January of fifth grade. The week later, Drama Club. Teacher called my parents, Hey, there's a community theater. The Levitt Jewish Community Center is doing the Velveteen Rabbit. I told the director about you. She'd love to hear you sing. If you want to do your first community show, went and did it. Somebody that worked at Red Mountain Theater Company came to see it. I got a standing ovation during my solo every night. I played a skin horse. I played that like a toy horse with a big head.

Sure.

And just, you know, high little alto voice just wailing, you know, just belting and no dynamics, but just like I.

Was going for it.

Tiny little, you know, chocolate boy on a stage with a big voice. And we were approached by somebody at Red Mountain, was like, We know just the place for you, so this happened just like that.

Within a year.

Within six months. That's crazy. January to June. I did my first school play, community theater show, and then did the Intensive for Red Mountain, and then that was kind of the ball that got everything started. It's also where I met my wife.

Wow.

When was the time you were on stage where you felt the most unprepared or insecure?

Okay. I'm gonna tell you a story I've never told anyone, because I pride myself on always being prepared.

I did a musical one time and.

It was a holiday season. This was me really like pushing my limits. I don't know how it ended up working out this way, but I ended up doing five Christmas shows at the same time. I was homeschooled, so that's helpful. But I was doing a show at Red Mountain. I was doing a show at Children's Theatre downtown. I was doing a show at ACTA. I was doing a show at the middle school that I was just helping out with. I was doing a show at my church. I was Five Christmas shows. The only one that I was really prepared for was the Red Mountain one because that was my place. That was my church. That was my temple. That was my everything, my world where all of my friends were. That was my school, that was my community, my extracurricular, everything that it was Red Mountain. That was it. Everything else took a backseat. All of a sudden we were two nights out from opening one of those Christmas shows and I knew half of my material.

Two nights away.

Still wasn't off book.

Wow.

We opened. We got through all of the shows and never got notes. I don't know how I survived. I'm sure that I skipped things. I'm sure, I don't even know. It was also so long ago. I mean, that was 16 years ago, 15 years ago. Yeah, that was a minute ago, but it was a good learning lesson and definitely grounds for like, that recurring nightmare of showing up. Every actor has that nightmare, right?

Do you have ever insecurity before you go on stage or perform at a small show, a big show, you know, whatever. Do you ever get insecure?

No.

Never.

No.

'Cause this is what I do.

Yeah.

There's pros who get nervous before big games or in the Super Bowl or whatever it might be. You know, I saw you perform at the World Series and I'm sure those athletes are nervous even though they do this every day.

Yeah.

How did you develop that type of confidence in yourself to just show up and deliver?

Recognition that preparation is the answer. That's how you beat that. If you're prepared, what is there to worry about truly? I guess it's a form of Taoism in a way. You have an issue, you don't have an issue. This is the picture. We'll start with this tree. Do you have an issue if the answer is, Yes, then don't worry about it.

Right?

Oh, sorry.

If you have an issue, don't worry about it.

If you have an issue, the answer is yes. The next question is, can you do something about it? If that answer is yes, don't worry about it. Then don't worry about it. Just do it. The answer is, no, you can't do anything about it. Then don't worry about it because you can't do anything about it. If it's your craft, if it's your work, if it's the thing that you're meant to do, contracted to do, expected to do, you should probably prepare to do it before you go.

Right. How often, what's your preparation look like then before you take on a new Broadway show or... Yeah, it depends on.

The project and depends on the amount of material. So like Evan Hansen, for example, the character doesn't leave the stage. It's a two and a half hour long musical and it's just so many pages of material, so much music. I, before we got into rehearsals for a month, was studying my script and getting as prepared and as off book as possible so that when there's a reference for a scene that the director says, like, I haven't worked with this company before, I haven't worked with this cast before, I haven't done anything like, I don't, you know, I've worked with the director before, but on a totally different show and, you know, at a lot down the street here at Fox, but not for his Broadway baby, his, you know, so I don't know what the process is gonna be like and it's a super emotional, super intense show. Why don't I just do myself a favor?

Prepare as much as possible, yeah.

Since I really don't know what variables are gonna come and just prepare for as much as I can.

Yeah.

And recognize that once I have prepared, then it's just a matter of going and doing it.

To the best we can, yeah.

To the absolute best of your ability. And I mean truly to the absolute best of your ability, go and do it. That's it. And so, yeah, pre-anthem, you read the game. I was happy. I had a couple of friends up there, I was chilling. I've sung the anthem so many times. It is the most nerve-wracking song to sing. The only thing that I ever worry about when performing the national anthem, regardless of the audience's concern, is don't say ramparts first. Because if you say ramparts first, you're stuck and over. You can't say ramparts first. And that's a common mix-up. And then there's no way to repair. That's the only thing. It's like once you get past the first two lines, you're fine.

Yeah, it's automatic.

You're set. So, no, I get excited, but I don't get nervous. I don't feel insecure. And if I do feel insecure, I try to put a stop to it so that I can figure out what that is so that I don't go into the performance insecure.

Do you ever feel afraid of how people will think or judge your performance ever? Or what they'll say or if they didn't like it or if they compare you to someone else or anything like that?

I guess if it's a controversial topic or something, it's probably normal to be fearful of what the general public might think because if you're taking on a controversial topic, your goal is to probably turn it on its head, right? And give people perspective.

Sure, sure, sure.

Restorative in some way.

I guess the reason I ask you this is because I've met so many incredibly talented people in sports or in business, afraid to go to the next level, afraid to put their message out there, whether it be a book or some project or whatever it might be, their expression into the world. But they are so talented. I'm like, Give me a percentage of that talent. The fear kind of cripples them. The fear of judgment, the fear of success, the fear of failure. Do you not have any of those fears?

Here's the thing, we just met, right? And when I walked in, I met somebody I had not met before, met a stranger. You probably had a first impression of me. I don't know what the first impression was, I'm not gonna ask you. Whatever that first impression was, I cannot change it. I do not have the ability to do that. Would it be cool to, yeah, sure, sometimes, maybe. That's like playing with time and Dr. Strange will come in and put a stop to it all. I can't change the way that you looked at me or how you felt when you shook my hand or if you thought initially, maybe he's not as nice as I hear or whatever. I don't know what that is or what you're gonna think of me when we leave. the place, but hopefully it's good. And if it's not, I mean, I can't change it. And if it's good, I'm sure I could do something to change it, but I would have to be intentional about it. You know what I mean? And so since I'm just being intentional about the art. Yeah. And I'm doing what feels good to me. And I'm doing what feels good for the piece. I'm doing what feels good for the project, for the character, whatever that case may be. Then that's why I do it. I don't do it to see what people might think about it.

Of course. Have you always felt that way or thought about yourself in that way? Because a lot of people don't. Think that way.

I think that I have treated my career like a business from the moment I started. It's never bled into my personal life. So I just try hard to not take it personally. Of course there are things that you do take personally, like not being casted because of the color of your skin. Things like that, you know, lack of opportunity for all sorts of people, people of color, LGBTQ+ etc. You know, the Asian American community, Asian community in general, Latinx, et cetera. There's so many things that like could be hurtful and really put me out, but like we're evolving in those ways. Where it comes to the art, that's what I do.

Yeah.

It's inspiring, man.

That's what I do. Like you can think whatever you think, and if you choose to write about it, that is entirely your prerogative, but like I'm gonna put it out.

It's amazing that you don't allow any of that to distract you from your mission of sharing your expression with each project the way you intend to share it. So that's really inspiring. I think a lot of people struggle with that.

Yeah, that's also not my sole mission in my life. My sole mission in my life is.

To be a good dad.

Right.

That's it. Like, I go to work. This is me working right now. This is like just what I'm doing today. Sure. And it's great. It's cool because it's dynamic and I love it. I love all of the things that I get to do. I have a lot of fun on my day to day. Got a really big team, really great assistant, really great clubs that I get to go to. Yeah, get to like swing, like all over the jungle gym of the entertainment industry. And then, like, you know, the bell goes off and the street lamps come on and it's time to go home and have dinner.

Wow.

I don't think many people in the industry think that way though.

Yeah, no.

I don't know, maybe they do, but I haven't really I think that a.

Lot of people romanticize it, but I think a lot of people are so wrapped up with wanting more where I'm happy where I'm at.

You don't need to take on more things if you don't want to.

No, I love my pace. I love my level of like, I hate the term fame because I don't like the celebrity part of everything that we do, but I like my- that-.

You-'Re famous, but you're not that famous.

Yeah, I can still go to the grocery store. People might ask for a picture or be like, They might, but they're not, for the most part, depends on where I'm at. If I'm at a Disney park or something, it's a different situation. If I'm at a Olivia Rodrigo concert in Texas, it's gonna be a different situation. It's specific, but yeah, I think that so many people are so wrapped up with when am I going to be satisfied? Where I found my satisfaction. in my family and in my love and in my relationships with my friends.

That's beautiful.

My home.

Have you had that your whole life or was that after a period of time being in LA and realizing that-.

Oh yeah dude, no I was 16, 17 in LA and working and like had a good car and like was bouncing around and doing the thing, finding myself, dude. Really? I was a kid.

When did you feel like you found who you were or wanted to be? What year was that?

I'll let you know.

But it sounds like you have this reflection where you're like, you know, Family is the key where I'm at right now.

That was always. Interesting. Always loved my family. I have a crazy family life and family history and stuff, but the core is my mom and my dad and me and my little brother. And all three of them are gonna come to my hotel tonight after this podcast. They're gonna come, we're gonna have some drinks, we're gonna hang, we're gonna eat, get in the pool, chill, go for a stroll on the beach. I got a couple other friends that my family's really close to. They'll come over a little bit later and hang with all of us. Because they all know that that's what fills me. And I know that that's what fills me. That's beautiful. Where I have so many friends that would get here, they would land, they would go to their hotel, they'd drop their stuff, they'd freshen up, and they would go to the first function they could find.

The industry event.

Yeah.

And I...

Wait, stop! Stop!

Wait!

Stop, listen.

Because the thing is, is that like, you have to for a while.

If you are trying to build yourself up here.

Yeah.

You've gotta show. You gotta do the rounds, you gotta do the meetings, you gotta-- Let's go.

Somewhere, shoot some really ironic photos of each other, and put them on Instagram, and like get our likes, and make our TikTok videos, and do the things, and it's like, yeah, sure, do it, all of it. It's all great and wonderful. I don't have the energy anymore. I don't have the time. You also been doing this since you.

Were 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18.

Yeah, 10. I've been doing it for 18 years professionally.

Yeah. But you've made it to a certain level of notoriety and opportunities and financial abundance where maybe others are trying to get to that.

Right, 100%.

You gotta be.

100%.

And the thing that I love to talk about is that it never happens overnight, right? Like when I did Grease Live for Fox, I don't even remember what year that was, it would have been like 20, Let's see, I joined Hamilton in fall of 2016, so we would have rehearsed November of 2015. So 2016.

Was that with the Julian Hough?

Yeah, it was with Julian Hough and Ariana Grande. So January 16th. Sorry, January 2016. So Grease Live happened and I got, there was a moment. There was a moment.

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I played duty. I sang one song on the show. I did not, no one expected, I did not expect for the world to care about duty. Also, frankly, I didn't want to do it in the first place. My agent had to convince me to do it because they're all hate watches and as a Broadway person, as a as a theater person, as a fan, I want to give those shows a fair shot. And it's so hard because I know that so much of the world watches those shows to play drinking games and to poke fun and all of those things. And my agent was like, I need you to trust me in this. It's a great team and I knew the team obviously was dying to work with the creative team, Tommy Kail. he directed in the Heights and Hamilton was obviously like gaining momentum in a big way and had just opened etc.

And.

I was like okay, like I'm gonna give it a shot. I'm gonna do it. And it happened to be the best scenario. It happened to be the best live musical that we had done. Of course I did Rent years later and it was like it was a moment. But they happen and you learn and like you know I wasn't hurt by that at all. I was just upset for our castmate that broke his foot. You know, that was an interesting thing. But I had that 15 minutes, dude. I had the 15 minutes and all of a sudden I felt it. I felt for the first time how quickly the industry goes. You're next.

Really?

Yeah.

So you've been working for 13, 14 years at that point.

Yeah.

And then that one moment, what happened?

It was an overnight, like a... All of a sudden, because of this one song that I sang in the show, the world was like, what? And I still don't really understand the magic of that moment. But it happened and I don't take it back.

I don't question what happened after that. You mean people kind of anointed you.

As like, you- I, my phone wouldn't work. Like I came back into my dressing room at the end of the show and somebody that I passed by was like, dude, just so you know Twitter's freaking out. And your phone's probably blowing up. Get home.

'Cause it was live, live.

It was live, live. And I had no clue. And I went and looked at my phone and it was a, I just turned it off. It freaked me out. I didn't know what was going on. I didn't know why, you know, I knew it was good. It was good reviews and stuff, but like I didn't know ultimately what had happened. And that was like, that was the mile marker where my career really began.

Isn't that interesting? It takes 10, 15 years until, okay, Now you put in enough reps, enough.

Projects, and the industry then was like, oh, this new kid.

You were like, I've been doing this since I was 10.

Hi, guys. Well, hey, good to see you all again.

You're like, I met you six years ago when I did the rounds.

Here we are again. Now we're interested. Totally fine. That's just the cycle of this industry, dude. If you take it personally, it will become corrosive. You cannot take it personally. You just have to do the work and recognize that it's gonna be your time when your time is right. Right. Period.

And not try to rush it. No. Except when you get casted or don't get casted.

Soak up the moments where you're not the talk of the town. Soak up those moments because when you are, you quickly don't wanna be anymore. It's great for the work, but it's exhausting. It's exhausting, it's exhaustive work.

What's the most exhausting part of being the talk of the town for A season or years or the moment.

This is probably my anxiety talking, but the worship culture.

Of how you're the greatest, you're the best.

Celebrity worship culture is not talked about enough. It's just not.

Because no one actually knows who you were. I mean, some people might have known who you were, but no one actually knew you. They saw a performance, they saw a talent expressed in a beautifully artistic way that touched people's hearts, soul, minds, made them feel something, but it was a few minutes song. It wasn't like they knew your whole life story or they were friends with you or connected with you.

But for some reason, all of a sudden, mob mentality, whatever the case may be, everyone decided that I was it for the minute.

Wow.

You know? And then it fades away.

How long does that last?

It's a 15-minute window, dude.

It's like, it's like a- Six months a year cycle.

Yeah, six months a year of like, strike the iron while it's hot. I did an interesting thing. The TV iron was striking. It was hot. I was getting offers for some really great shows for television. But I had been working on Disney Channel for a while and been doing TV. Films and stuff like featurettes and things like that, commercials, I was really, I was signed to a record label and really ready to start giving my music a fair shot. And was met at a crossroads and needed to decide like, okay, this thing that I've been working 10 years to become successful in, or this thing that I've, you know, been signed for a year and I now have a record that I can put out and it's gonna chart and we can go.

If.

I don't do this now, I don't know when I'll ever be able to really start my music career. And I was young and single and ready to be on a radio tour and could be on a radio tour. Nine-month grueling, going to 120 different radio stations. You're playing multiple shows a day in different cities, two, three flights a day.

Just building up.

Never home. It is a moment.

How old are you then?

I would have been, I would have been like 2021.

You weren't in the relationship at the time?

21, 21-22.

You're single meaning not married or you weren't?

Single meaning not in a relationship.

Not in a relationship.

I had a pug. That was my commitment.

That's a big commitment.

Yeah, but he was my, that was my boy.

So you had this season of life where you're like, okay, here's these two crossroads essentially. Go all in on the TV stuff or say no to what potentially every actor wants out here is this opportunity to do all these things. things and go all in on the music.

And it's interesting that we're having this conversation right now too. So I'd love to like, I'm gonna come back at some point in time and we can like have a good catch up. Sure, we should do this like once a year.

Absolutely, unpack it, unpack it man.

The interesting thing in that is that when I made that decision and committed to that decision, we're gonna say no to all these TV offers. Man, painful. Painful, painful for me, painful for My team, agents, managers, they- They want to.

Make their 10, 15, 20%. And they see a roadmap for the future for you.

And they know too, like, eventually the music's gonna help feed this thing and this is gonna help feed that thing. And as one area wins, the other does. But that means that I have to put TV and film on pause for a while, especially immediately after all of this momentum. I did a couple of guest spots on some shows and then I hit the road.

Wow.

And I used the Grease momentum.

For the music. And what did you learn during that nine-month or year-long season?

As much as you learn that the industry does get over you, it doesn't go away.

What doesn't go away?

Opportunity. So, the industry doesn't go away. and you're conditioned to believe that it will.

If I don't do this now, I'll never have this in the land of the living.

Know is the most powerful word you can use. It is just like, that is so powerful.

Why?

Because it dictates everything. It helps you dictate your space, your place, your time, your energy commitment, all of the things. Because especially as artists, we're givers, we're servers. We work in a service industry. We grow up based on how I'm like leaning in now.

Give it to me, man.

Producers, directors, studios, networks, it's been so volatile, it's been so toxic for such a long time because of the conditioning that happens within those systems. It's that conditioning that is not talked about. If you, it's the loose, it's the loose, like if you don't, like it could be an issue, you don't wanna look like a diva, you don't wanna, be as compliant as possible.

Right, right.

It's one of my greatest joys is to have an opportunity to talk to kids, especially in this industry, and be like, y'all, it's you. You have to check in with yourself and measure what you're good with and what you're not good with.

Right.

No one can tell you what that is. No one at all. And your word to use for that is a two-letter one and it's powerful. Don't let anybody make you feel bad for not saying yes to doing something because it makes you uncomfortable. You say, you know what? That makes me uncomfortable. I'm good. You're not gonna be fired. Things will get worked out as long as you're respectful. It's just, it's the conditioning, man. And it's so exa, and I work with adult professionals that have been doing this for many years longer than I have. And I can still see, like, the emotional damage of conditioning an actor to not be a diva by saying yes and doing everything and being compliant and.

Overworking and getting what happens when someone's over abandons themselves and they're what they really want and says yes to other people out of fear of missing out.

I I I'll tell you exactly what that is because you described to me, depression and anxiety.

When was this?

Probably started really, ultimately, when I was 10 or 11, but didn't actually manifest fully until I was like 20, 24, 23, 24 years old.

Five years ago, roughly. So it was kind of like low level when you're 11 and then Built.

Yeah, because I didn't really know what that was. I was always a workaholic and I was always like a go and doer. And so I kept busy. Yes, and yes. And I was energetic. I had the energy at the time to do it. I was gonna do it all. And so I did. And I developed really, really good habits that really hurt me over the years.

What good habits hurt you?

Horrifically diligent work ethic. Meaning that like, I can't stop working.

You can't sleep a night until you get it done. Yeah.

My brain doesn't stop. I take on everything. I say yes to everything. I jump on other people's things if I feel like they need help. I pull people's little red wagons and all of the things that I need to learn, especially if I'm gonna be a great producer in film and in television here, I need to learn how to not do. I need to learn how to delegate more. Work on empowering others. Give other people opportunities to succeed. feed and do the... And so that I have been having the time of my life doing that recently. But that's also because I've gone through a lot of mental health and emotional things over the last handful of years. But like, I'm in the happiest place that I've ever been in my life right now.

That's beautiful.

You know, and so the reflection's been really great because now I can go back and talk about these things that have gotten me to this point of happiness. I didn't know that I could ever be happier outside of LA because for a long time I believed that the only way that I could work in this industry is by living here. And then when that became so clear that that was not the case, and we could go to our happiest place and be with people that matter the most to us, first of all, it's that healthiest separation of work and, and, you know, your personal life, like. Even when we lived here, lived here for 15 years, I, yeah, I went to the events, went to the parties from time to time. It was a thick of thing. It was, you know, I would leave and go, you know, I'm glad I went.

It was a good time, whatever.

You don't feel like you're missing out. I don't feel like I'm missing out. And the older I got and the more like I was exposed to and around and stuff, I was like, this is not my shtick at all.

This is not my scene. It's so funny you say that because I'm, I guess It's been 10 years since I moved here, which is crazy to think about.

Oh, great.

And I remember in the first six months, the first year, sometime in the first year, I got invited to like a Hollywood party in the hills. Yeah. And I remember thinking, oh, what is this all about? Oh, yeah. And it was the first and last party I ever went to.

Really?

Yeah.

I never went to another party again, like the typical party. I went to, A book launch party or a house party with friends. Sure, sure, sure, sure, sure.

But not like a party. And I remember-- There's one party in LA that I'll go to and it's at Notch's house. He's the creator of Minecraft and it's.

All gamer people and like-- It's fun. Oh my god. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But this was, I remember just kind of walking around and being like, this is a weird feeling of people that.

Are trying to like, no one was really connecting.

It just smells desperate. It's just like you can taste desperation. And I remember going up to, and I'm not in the the industry, right? I'm not an actor, I'm not a writer, I'm not like music, but I'm here in LA, so I'm adjacent to.

It, I guess, with the podcast. Very much so, yeah.

You work in this industry. I work in it, but I'm not in that field. Yeah, I'm a different, I'm a cousin maybe of the industry anymore. And I remember being like, I need to get some air. So I went to like the roof of this place, I had a pool and the whole thing in the hills. And the place where I got air away from everyone, there was a few people sitting there, they're like, oh, come on by, and they're, doing cocaine. And I go, this is so, this is very typical. Yeah. Stereotypical.

LA, here it is.

And I just remember being like, are.

You doing it because you're in LA at a house party in Beverly Hills? Yeah.

Like, is that why you're doing this? And I remember saying, this is not for me, this scene. But I found other communities in LA that I really love that I'm like, you know, I never go to parties or bars or anything like that.

I don't drink. I've never been drunk in my life. Oh, good for you.

So I went, I cannot say that. But I use salsa dancing as my way to go out.

That's your outlet.

It's like, let me listen to music and connect with people through an expression, not through that. But that's so interesting. So in the last few years, would you say you were more your darkest time a few years ago then with mental health stuff?

Yeah, I mean, yes.

Let's do this. On a scale of 1 to 10, where were you with self-love in terms of 10?

That's a great question.

Being, you have amazing inner peace, you've loved and accepted yourself fully, you had no anxiety or stress, and you weren't harmful towards your thoughts towards yourself. That'd be a 10 where you really accept. One being you were extremely harmful to yourself mentally, emotionally, you didn't love and accept yourself.

Where were you on the spectrum? I've only ever dipped that low a couple of times and that only lasts for a minute. And that's usually before a big turning. turning point for me, which is really great. The biggest turning point that I've had in my life, in my life was learning that I need medication to help me with this thing that I didn't really know that was afflicting me. I mean, crippling anxiety.

When was this?

This was months ago. Really? Months ago. So, things were tackled and because because I, for the first time, because of that, because I hit that one of like, I can't, I was angry with myself for dealing with health issues, for having like, you know, it was all those things that led me to.

But.

I have to be here. I've got a son coming. I've got all this life to live. I've got to get to the bottom of, you know, it was my aversion to, you know, family stuff, drugs, alcohol, blah, blah, blah, I've got some baggage. I was averse to the idea of taking medication, even as a mental health advocate and would tell other people like, oh, medication's great, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I couldn't. I just had such a hard time not being able to put more stock in my body for taking care of things. And then when I was, when that mentality got broken down, by somebody going, Dude, there's God in this medication. Someone miraculously figured out how to create something so that people like you and me that deal with, I don't create dopamine naturally. I'm missing a chemical in my brain. I don't have to deal with that anymore.

Right. And.

Regardless of what you believe, I don't know, God doesn't want me to suffer. I don't want to suffer. I don't want to deal with constantly just being sad and having to feign happiness and feign joy and feign being on set and being a leader and being and doing a thing and just being so, so horribly sad. Wow, really? How long was that for? For a long time. Really?

I just, dude, Just showed up with a happy face and performed it.

And took all of it away. Interesting. Your initial question, I'm gonna bring it back around to one that you asked a little while ago because I wanted to get back to it eventually. Was trying to, can we play the tape? It was, it was when did you...

Was it around the mental health question?

Self-love.

Yes, so one to ten, you said you only got to one a couple times. What were you at typically? Were you like a three, a five?

Yeah, I think that I probably baseline for years have just been at a five.

A five.

Yeah.

For like five, ten years, kind of middle of the run.

But I consider myself to be a happy person.

You seem like a happy person.

Yeah.

But now I know what joy really, truly is.

What is it?

Well, that's a, it can't, there's no sound bite there. There's not a sound bite for that. Here's the journey. Let's see if, like, just go on the journey with me. I didn't know that I didn't create a chemical in my brain that helps with happiness, right? Until when? Until very recently. Months ago. Months ago. I figured out that like, I need, I have these spikes of anxiety and all of this stuff and I'm balancing out now obviously therapy and all the things that are going on at home and how excited we are to welcome new life You know, sold by the way, thank you so much, man. Thank you, thank you. Sold the movie to Netflix and it's my producerial debut and it's like it's coming out in July and I'm gonna be holding my son and feeding him at home while we're watching it as a family and things like that. I'm like, I know I'm content. Like I could live these days. for the rest of my life. Really? And be so happy.

Did you feel like you wouldn't have been able to live this way without experiencing the last 15 years?

Absolutely not, which is why I love that it all happened.

Interesting.

I wouldn't take any of it back at all.

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Any of it. Any moment of hurt, heartache, damage, panic attacks, deep depression. I needed all of it and now it's my story.

How did you manage the panic or anxiety when it occurred? How would you manage it?

I mean, there's all sorts of coping techniques. Do you know about tapping?

Of course.

Yeah.

EFT, yeah.

Big, big, big, big fan of that. Newer pathway audio sensory, putting on headphones and playing certain There's like, you know, hour, 10 hour long loops online. YouTube is like... These incredible soundscapes that are meant to help reconstruct things in the brain and in the body while you're listening. And it's just, you know, meditation, yoga, exercise. So, you have a lot of healthy coping mechanisms.

100%.

That's powerful. I mean, I am a community person. I am a, physical touch is my number one love language. And if I don't have hugs on a regular basis, I start to wither. like a flower. I was just in Canada for like two weeks by myself, spent my fourth birthday alone in a hotel room and like, I know about me, my wife knows about me, my friends know about me, my team knows about me. Like everyone in my life knows that I need hugs. And I got into a really bad habit of not asking for them when I'm lonely, when I'm alone, when I'm by myself, not intentionally being like, Kind of a hug. Like, I have a hug quota and.

I need to meet it. Dude, I'm gonna hug it out even longer now. Yeah. Every time I see you, I'm just gonna squeeze you. And I'm there for it.

That's, I'm gonna carry my arms. That's when I'm happiest, truly. Like, I am a human connection person. Like that, to me, that's why we're here. That's beautiful, man. Like, we're here. We're gonna do whatever we're gonna do with this life, and it's gonna be great. And whatever the next phase is, is the next this phase, whatever that is for you. And I just want to enjoy it and I want to be happy as much as possible. And so why I say I've kind of been at a baseline five is because I have really worked so hard to, I've just kind of believed that everybody dealt with the same stuff. And my wife was like, no, Jordan, you've been running a race for the last 20 years barefoot up against Usain. and Rob Johnson and all of these incredible runners, and you have been keeping up, but they have spikes in your barefoot. Imagine a world where you have some shoes. My case is medication. Figuring out what that is for me. I haven't talked about this, and I knew that I was gonna talk about this eventually. I'm sure Chantal's out there being like, I didn't know that we were gonna throw all of this at it. But I've just been saying, I'll bring it up and discuss it whenever it feels right. This is the moment where at the end of the day, if I can remind anyone of anything, is that the person that you're looking at or talking to right now is just as complicated as you are, probably just as damaged as you are, is fighting and struggling with something of their own, or probably happy about something that they can't talk about, or whatever, you have no clue. what that person is doing. And so why not just meet them as gently as possible?

Absolutely, man. I think we have a lot of, we put a high standard on people. We put a lot of pressure on people to be something without knowing exactly what they're going through. Even if they look like everything's okay. I think I saw on ESPN a night or two ago about a female athlete who committed suicide who was just like one some big award and then a couple weeks later, and one of her teammates said, you never know what people are going through. Sometimes you might think everything's okay, but you never know what someone might be going through internally. And you had everything it seemed like for a lot of people that was happening for you in a positive way and incredible talent and opportunities and everything.

Was right on paper.

But you're at a five. Sometimes below.

Sometimes below. And I would get angry about that. Like it would make me I was.

Like, you- shame yourself.

Why? Everything is great. Everything on paper is wonderful. I'm in such a good place and space, especially at my age, and the perspective that I have, the goals that I have, what I'm looking to accomplish and do. Jordan, you and your loved, you've got people around you. Why are you so sad?

What was the thoughts that you had about yourself that you would have on a loop or repeat or what would be saying internally, maybe not to your wife or to friends or family or agents, but inside what were you saying?

No one cared. Really?

Yeah.

I really don't care about you or your about me as a human, not.

Like your talented person.

Yeah, I am.

Wow.

I am. It's interesting. I am when, when Trying to figure out how to articulate this without sounding like an absolute douche. But I'm expected to do good work. I think, like when I get brought onto a project or book a project or, you know, come in creatively to help develop something or build something and produce something, like people just kind of expect for my work to be good. And That's great. I love that that's the reputation. You produce great, consistent work. I do my best, too.

Sometimes it's really, really great and sometimes.

It'S mediocre and sometimes, you know, but that's just part of it. Just keep writing, just keep building, just keep putting things out. And like, that's what I'm gonna do for the rest of my life. Life's long, you know? I'm gonna keep on doing it and certain things are gonna strike oil and certain things are gonna just kind of fall to the wayside and it is okay. I'm just gonna keep on going. 'cause I'm gonna keep learning and building and then it's gonna be great. But yeah, people expect for my work to be good. And that said, I don't, oddly enough, like hear from my peers, good job.

Really?

Very much.

Yeah.

You mean to you personally or like they talk about you in the They'll.

Probably talk about me in the world, but I think that because people assume that I get it a lot, I actually don't.

Wow.

Which is funny. And I was talking to my therapist about this and they hit the nail on the head. They're like, We can find this in anything, in any industry, in all industries. Like Fortune 500, you know, you're in sports, whatever. Like if you are expected to do good work and you do good work, if you do poorly, then people have something to say. You know, it's like, wait, what about the other 19 times that I did really, really well? And you didn't say anything about it. And now you critique this thing. Yeah.

Yeah, it's like, how was that good for me?

No, words of affirmation are a big part of my life as well. Physical touch, quality time, words of affirmation. That's my top three also.

Okay, there it is.

Gifts and acts of service are kind.

Of like, yeah, I mean, they're there.

It depends. It super depends depends on what it is and who it's from. Like one of my best friends, her number one is gift giving. She receives love with quality time, but her number one in terms of giving it is gifts. And it's always stuff that would just blow your mind, make you cry, twist you up, turn you upside down. Yeah, and she's apparently done it since she was a kid. Her parents were like, we don't know how to shop for her. And it's Tim the Tap Man's wife too, so they're fine. They get whatever they want to, you know?

But she's so hard to shop for for that reason. So, the compliment or the acknowledgement.

That thing right there, I started to like, again, didn't realize this, therapy and this is why everyone needs therapy. You get to work backwards and it's really wonderful.

How long have you been doing it? Side note. Consistently.

Four years since I had that.

Oh.

I didn't tell you about that panic attack. It was like the panic attack that started it all, but that was, Four years ago. It's four years ago. Yeah, I had just a really bad moment in a music studio and was driving home. The session went great. I was driving home and I had a red eye that night and I just like, I couldn't, my throat felt like someone was squeezing it.

I've had that feeling a few times.

I got home, I collapsed on the floor, passed out like crying and I woke up with my dog like laid across my chest.

Yeah.

And my mom like came into my house and because I called her before I got home, it was like as soon as you can get here, like, So.

What did you realize in that moment?

That something was wrong and that I needed a therapist.

Wow.

There was no question. I was like, I don't know what this is. I don't know what I'm just, it must be something that.

You need to process something.

Yeah, I need to go through something. Talk through, talk through something.

I know we're on a side note here. I want to get back to what you were saying, but what are the top three biggest things you learned about yourself in the last four years therapy.

I don't give myself grace. I give everyone else grace. I serve everyone else but I do not serve myself enough. I'm so good at doing for others and trying my best to not be an inconvenience. But man, I give myself no grace, dude. Such a perfectionist, if things didn't go the way that I needed them to go, the way that I if I envisioned them going, I would just berate myself. I would never give myself the love that ultimately I've needed from peers and from other co-workers and things like that. I wouldn't even give it to myself.

How can you expect it from others.

If we're not expecting it from ourselves? If I can't give it to myself, but I was like, how can I even give it to myself? No one else around me, I can't be the only one that thinks that.

I'm doing well or anything. It's also hard to receive love from others if we don't believe that in.

Ourselves, that we're deserving Absolutely, absolutely. But we have to go through something to get to that point. Didn't know what that needed to be, didn't know what that experience was going to be until I started therapy. So I needed to coddle my childhood self.

I'm going to share with you something real quick. Side note, because I want to hear this whole thing. I have said this so many times in the last three months on my show. So my audience is going to get bored of me saying this, but I've got a photo of my childhood self.

Oh my God.

On my screensaver and I've shown this on camera so many times so my audience is probably like, this is crazy. But for whatever reason, so many people that I have on, we end up talking about inner child healing.

Yeah.

When I was five, I was sexually abused by a man I didn't know. Oh my God. For 25 years, I didn't tell a soul. Growing up in Ohio, you weren't allowed to express yourself as a man in the 80s and 90s. Oh, yeah. Or as a guy. playing sports and things like this. And I never really dealt with it and faced that until I hit 39 years ago. And that allowed me to finally start the healing journey. And my therapist had me do this in the last year. That's been there for a year now. Every two weeks I do therapy because I love emotional accountability.

Oh yeah. To have your person that you can look at and go, okay. Oh yeah.

Exactly. And just be able to process. That's incredible. So anyways, I love that you were sharing that. I apologize for keep going off here, but I love that you felt like you had to coddle your inner child.

I had to go pick him up and hold him.

What did he never have?

Let him cry. He started a life of perfectionism at two years old, gymnastics.

I can't remember to. That's crazy.

Life has been about perfection. I had to be perfect in gymnastics to score well. I had to be perfect in my shows to succeed and level up and get better opportunities. I had to be perfect in the audition so that I could book the show. I had to be perfect in my relationship so that I could be perfect in my thing. I'd be perfect in the way that I make this PB&J. I'd be perfect in the way that I park this car. It just, you see, It just got worse and worse and worse and worse and worse and worse and worse.

That sounds exhausting.

Yeah.

I didn't give him room to make mistakes. And now I'm about to have a son and he's not gonna take his eyes off me. And I need him to see me. make mistakes. And I need to be able to talk to him about it. I need to be able to like show him that when I do things that are mediocre, that I'm cool with it. And build him up for everything. And when he doesn't do something perfectly, celebrate him for it. I think that's going to be a lot of my healing.

Wow.

I think I'm just now, I'm just like coming to this moment. But I do think that that's going to be a lot of my like childhood healing is literally like raising a son.

That is powerful.

I'm going through my own thing too because like obviously I can't put it all, I can't put it all on like this thing. But I've spent a good amount of time in the last three months, I'd say. Yeah, about three months. I've spent a really good time just sitting my childhood self in my lap.

This is so beautiful, man.

Giving him a hug while checking in, talking.

What do you say to him?

What do you need?

What did he need?

Sometimes it's just that. Sometimes it's just like a moment with family. Sometimes it's just like watching a childhood movie or reading a book or sometimes it's picking up the phone and having a conversation with somebody that I haven't spoken to that I miss really badly or whatever. It's just sometimes it's just peace and stillness.

Yeah.

You know, that's beautiful. You do that practice. This is a practice I've been doing for the last year, and it's been. profoundly healing. Yeah, it really is.

That's part of the journey, right? Like, I literally, I envision me. Like, I look at me. Me too. And, and, like, try to imagine, like, talking to me as a kid and being like, what's up?

Like, what do you need?

Like, hey, I'm here. What's up?

Hey, come here. You know? What's up? I did a crazy exercise. We're kind of going there now, but I did a crazy exercise one time after a therapy session where I laugh sometimes when things get kind of weird.

I'm like waiting for a bomb to be dropped right now.

It's not that weird, but it's just, you know, I laugh sometimes because I think of myself growing up in Ohio thinking that I would never talk about this stuff, right?

I have a question for you. Can I interrupt you real quick?

You can, what is it?

Because you obviously dropped that information a little while ago. Let me just now. The natural instinct is to go, I'm so sorry that happened. What's the best thing to hear?

I think that's, yeah, that sounds good. I mean, that's a good response. I think it's just an awkward thing to interact around. I think it's awkward.

We met 40 minutes ago, right?

It's awkward for me to say that, but my audience is used to it. opening up in such a vulnerable way.

That so is mine.

This is my natural come from. I don't know service level. I can't do the rooftop Hollywood, you know, conversation.

It's, that's why we left.

That's why, you know, when, when people come here, that's why I ask you in the beginning before camera goes, is there anything off limits or am I allowed to go anywhere to make this the most powerful conversation possible? Because I think this is way more powerful than you saying, you know, whatever service conversation that we could do or not that it's bad or wrong, it's just not what I'm up to.

100%.

For me, it's about deeper levels of humanity.

Deeper levels of stuff that I can talk about forever.

Absolutely, me too. And that's why it's like I just get lost in these conversations. I think something that you could say for someone is, I'm so sorry you went through that or just be present with them. You know, I think.

Yeah, that's good.

You know, sometimes when you don't know what to say, it's better to say nothing, but, yeah, I don't think it's, you're wrong either way, but I think good to talk about. Absolutely. Because I think it's good to know. Awkward for people to, to have these conversations, especially if people don't have the tools to communicate with someone. I feel safe with you, and I feel safe with my audience because I've been talking about it for years. I wrote a book about, you know, how men can heal from the traumas that they've faced and the mask that they've worn to to protect themselves, to defend themselves in society or whatever that have hurt them and hurt more people. Yeah. So this is something I feel comfortable with. But I think it might be a shocker for some if they're just meeting me. But I forget where we're going. You. You started laughing and you.

It's like I'm waiting for a bomb to be dropped.

It's not really a bomb.

It's just, I think back to my childhood self, and I just think, man, I would never allow myself to talk about these things because it wasn't accepted or cool. in school, right? But in terms of the having a conversation, like you imagine your childhood self in front of you, you see, you know, little Jordan in front of you and like with all the dreams and fears and insecurities and joy and laughter and this tiny little being growing up, I do the same for myself. And that's why for me, it's on my screen saver. It's here so I always remind myself like this like goofy little silly kid Awkward, but man just filled with a lot of joy, a lot of love. -A lot of love, a lot of joy.

-Yes.

-So, I imagine myself, I did an exercise where I was laying down when I did this exercise, but I had my eyes closed so I imagined myself standing up and having a conversation and kind of really facing and saying all the things I needed to say to my childhood, to my little Louis or inner child at 5, 6, 7, seven and imagined myself there. And then I imagined myself in that position looking up to my now self, my adult self.

And are you comforted by that?

And I had a beautiful conversation. I've done this many times and it's funny because I had Terry Crews on here last week and he talked about same thing. He's got a photo of himself when he was a child on his desk and he has conversations. So many men have talked about this now which is beautiful I think to normalize this conversation.

That's actually really, really great. And one of the things I'm changing.

My screen saver when we leave. It's a beautiful practice. And my therapist now is like, okay, we need to work through phase 10 to 12. So he's like, find a photo and I haven't changed it yet. So I'm finding a photo of me at that age to work on that part of my life where I had.

Fears and insecurities and doubts and heartbreak.

And all these other things. That's really great. So I'm trying to heal each stage of life where I might have had a wound or a trauma. to bring the healing journey all the way up to now.

-It'S amazing.

-And kind of create that peace there. But the thing that I did was, which I thought was kind of weird, was after having this kind of interaction and conversation with myself for the first time, this was nine months ago, I hugged myself mentally and I felt like my little child was right there with me and I kind of like brought him into me. my heart, like through my body into my heart mentally and kind of spiritually and just connected those moments together.

That's amazing.

And it was a beautiful moment.

That's a real moment.

It was a beautiful ritual practice, exercise, whatever you want to call it for me at that time because I felt such a disconnection from my. I feel like I had to block so many shameful moments, right? And painful moments. I felt like I was Distant from it. So now I rewrote the story.

All of that was just it was haunting your heart. It was just it needed to get cleaned out and you needed to go through those things to clean those out so that he had a place to be. And he felt amazing.

And now there's an adult in the room, you know, and it's like there's healing and there's context and there's meaning from that. Anyways, going off topic here, but so you were mentioning at one point about perfectionism and how about everything had to be perfect.

Yeah.

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When did you realize that that was part of the problem?

Mm-.

Because in some ways it drove you to probably creating results and opportunities and- Definitely.

Because reputation of a really good hard worker, kind to people on set and in and around the industry. I think that started to break.

When.

I started needing to tell people. I'm like the friend therapist, right? Like, I'm always like the person people want to talk to. I'm like, yeah, absolutely. Like, I love to. Like, let's talk about it. I'm not a mental health professional, so I'd love to talk to you, but like, I'm probably always going to end the conversation with.

Talk to a therapist or.

Have you thought about like maybe meeting with a therapist? 'Cause I'm always going to. I think everyone needs one. I think that Yeah, so it probably started to break for me when I really started finding myself needing to tell people like, oh, you're an idiot. Like, no one's perfect. Why would you put so much pressure on yourself to do that? Like, it's okay. People make mistakes.

So you were saying this to other people.

And then at some point in I mean, I think it was, yeah, six months ago, I started just going, it's fine. It's okay. Not that, like, me condoning mediocrity is.

Like, the thing, but- you-'re being your best and being okay with that.

And if I screw up, 'cause if someone else makes a mistake, I'm always like, okay.

But when you made mistakes, what happened?

I'm like, how in the world could I have done that?

And I think-- But people probably wasn't a mistake to other people.

And I think that everyone else is like, oh, Jordan. Because of the, again, we go backwards. I don't, that's what I'm used to hear, like if I do well, I don't hear that I do well.

Interesting.

As much as I, like, when I don't do well, if I was getting notes for a show or notes for a, you know, feedback from an audition or whatever the case may be.

Wow, man.

Interesting. And it didn't happen overnight, right? So, like, the reparation, it's still not gonna happen overnight.

Yeah, it's gonna take time.

If it's 15 years of damage, then it's 15 years of.

Well, hopefully. Hopefully. Yeah. Short the time. It doesn't have to be that long. Hopefully. But my therapist says healing is not. event. It's a journey.

It is.

You know, there's a moment of realization, awareness, and then it's a learning process of healing. And hopefully it eventually soothes to going away, but it may be a journey forever or something, but not as painful, hopefully.

Hopefully.

So you have a son who's going.

To be... That was crazy just now. That made my hands sweat. Bro, that was awesome to hear.

What?

It was just so cool.

All right, so you have a son that it was so normal.

That was incredible.

Oh, it's so cool. It's still so fresh. It's crazy, huh?

Yeah.

Your son's gonna be coming in a few months.

In a few months, yep.

You're gonna be a father.

Seven weeks, yeah.

I'll be a father.

Wow. On Father's Day. Holy cow. Which is also Juneteenth.

Just layers to this. How does that make you feel knowing you're gonna be a dad?

It's my, it's what I'm supposed to be doing. It's the reason why I'm here. It's the reason why I'm on Earth, is to be a dad.

How do you know them?

Because, have you read Matthew McConaughey's book?

I had him on. I mean, I interviewed him for it, but yeah.

Okay. Did he tell you about his childhood and how he looked at his father and, and, yeah.

Uh-huh.

Me? Yeah. The adoption portion of my story is probably part of it, but my parents gave me an amazing example of what genuine love is, which true love is. They had really, really bad first marriages. They found each other in their late 20s. Their oldest had me when she was 16. I was immediately adopted. The older three were just my big sisters and brother. And I knew that Felicia gave birth to me, but I also, you know, My mom and my dad were, my mom and my dad, Pat and Rodney. Oh my god, dude, my brain is just all over the place. I lost my father. Fatherhood, thank you.

Why do you feel like you were meant to be?

They showed me what comfort and safety and love and a home is. And they were happy. And we laughed and giggled and watched friends at the coffee table when we ate dinner every night. And, you know, we'd go to Blockbuster on Fridays and, like, go to the park. And everything was intentional and they raised me with respect and they showed me how to be respectful but also, like, lead and to guide and to do. I looked at my dad and went, like, that's a man who has a partner that he loves more than anything, and that works his butt off to make sure that we all have a good, happy, healthy life. So does my mom, you know, working mom. They work so hard to make sure that when we all get home at the end of the day, we're happy, we have what we need, you know, we have each other, because that's our sanctuary. We all go off and we do our adventures during the day, and then we go, how was your day? You know what I mean? That is what it's about. Like that is life to me personally.

Yeah.

And so, all that said, everything that has like prepped me for this has prepped me to have that dynamic, to have that, to create that home environment that I got to grow up in. I was one of the lucky ones in my family that got to grow up in that warm, safe place. Like I get to make that with the person that I love more than anything.

That's so cool.

When you have your partner, you have that kind of commitment and history. We were nine and 13 years old. We were friends growing up and have so much time and so many adventures and different, you know, we've had so many different relationships that led up to her coming to see me do a show in New York and us getting dinner, to us now being married for a couple years and having a kid on the way. More coming. I mean, like, my dream for as long as I can remember is to be able to go to my own home with my own wife, with my own kids.

That's so cool.

That's always what I've wanted.

That's so cool, man.

I can't wait to have, like, the team jersey that I wear when I make all of the breakfast burritos to take to my kids' baseball practice. I can't wait to, like, do her hair for her recital. I can't wait to, like, pick somebody up from their first date. I can't wait to like meet the first boyfriend even though it's gonna, I'm gonna hate it. And I can't, but I can't wait for these life things to happen because like to me that's where all like the real big awesome joy is.

That's cool, man.

And then everything else is just, it's my work and I love it. I love my jobs. But I live, I work to live. I live my life.

Is there a song that you like recently that really speaks to your heart through what you've experienced in the last few years that maybe you listen to or you sing just when you're humming something that has a line or a lyric or a chorus that you're like, man, this is a powerful thing.

You know man probably, but off the top of my head right now, no, not so much. I mean, I'd love to give that to you later.

Next time.

I'll hit you.

Next time.

By the way, here's that one.

Here it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

About it again. Yeah, there's so much music. I mean, that's the other thing too is like if there isn't a line, like I'm gonna write it for one of my songs that then I can't say. But yeah, I think of so many artists probably is where I go first of like who speaks to me the most, you know?

--Who is that?

Matt Healy from the 1975, the lead singer of the 1975. Probably the smartest songwriter of our generation. I gotta say, man, that's just the way it is by Bruce Hornsby is one of the most slice of life records. A lot of people love the Tupac version. The Tupac version is great. Changes is awesome. But frankly, that whole song, that whole song is just like a man That's life, huh? And it really sucks, huh? It's perspective. It's a perspective song that I think is a very important one for people to like, especially kids, to know early on when they start to experience boredom as a kid, you know? Boredom is the gateway to mundane, and they're gonna experience that at some point in time in their lives. We all go through a mundane point in our lives and kids experience boredom, and it's the life, the world's gonna explode. I am going to die if I don't find entertainment immediately. It's like, woo! That's just the way it is. Some things will never change. It goes deeper, obviously. We talked about everything from racism to work ethic to all sorts of things in that song, but that's a big.

Just.

He literally ends the song, the way his last lyrics are, that's just the way, the way, the way, the way it is. And it goes into this gorgeous piano, you know, solo. And to me, the expression of that musically is saying that even though that's just the way it is, it doesn't mean that this can't be fun.

I've got three final questions for you to respect your time. Before I get to them, I want people to follow you. You're everywhere. You've got music, art, dance, gaming. You're all over the place on so many different things. You speak like 37 languages. I don't know how you find the time.

I'm not a polyglot. I'm not.

For all these things.

I would like to be. That'd be one of my three wishes.

Jordan Fisher everywhere. And also you've got a new film that you produced.

Yeah, yeah.

And that's coming out soon.

It's got a long title. Hello, goodbye, and everything in between. But we mean that.

It's kind of just like the way it is.

We mean that, yeah. It's really great. And this was a really good piece too. I mean, like the stuff that I'm attaching my name to as a producer and digging into building things are all things that, you know, I think that culturally we need to be talking about. This script resonated a lot with me because, not because of the character I play, Aiden, but because of Claire, the girl that Talia plays, I find a lot of my unhealthy planner, perfectionist, type-A things that come, that just kind of swirl around in here. They just kind of swirl. They don't really pop up as much anymore because I've gotten really good at like just letting them swirl and being like, yo, chill. Just kind of, it'll taper. But her perfectionism definitely was one. It really, I mean, the synopsis of the film, our characters Clare and Aidan, they fall in love their senior year, but they ultimately decide that before they go into the relationship that it's, you know, they don't want to go to college in a relationship. They've heard from so many people, it's not the move.

I did that. I ended a relationship. Yeah. And the last year of high school, I kind of regretted it.

Really?

I later regretted it. It was the right move, but I was afraid to lose it after a while.

Well, I think there's something to be said about both sides, right? Something to be said about like ending the relationship so you can go and have a fresh start, clean slate, whatever, and then there's something about not and it working out, you know what I mean?

Sure.

Ellie was in college when we were dating and that was, granted it was different. We had the means, we could travel, we could see, she joined me on tour for a while. It was different, it was, you know, it's not a You're totally fair to picture. We put forth the effort. We did put forth the effort to make that happen. Yeah, it's a matter of figuring out just like what's the right move and how do we know what the right move is and that journey. So it's interesting because it's a YA rom-com and I was like, I'm done with YA rom-coms, I think. But this one doesn't feel like that. This one's very, it's slice of life, but man, it challenges a lot of relationship-oriented things for Everyone. Everyone. That's exciting, man.

It's in July, it's out, right? Yeah, July 6th on Netflix. Netflix. I'll be watching, I'll be sharing it. I want everyone to watch it too. Make sure to tag you all over social media when you're watching it. So where do you spend the most.

Time right now on social media?

Where? Twitter and Twitter and Twitch. Twitter and Twitch.

Twitter and Twitch.

Double T. Double T. All right, Twitter and Twitch.

I stream pretty much every day on Twitch.

We've never gotten into it. I used to game as a kid, but I never got into it.

You're gonna go to twitch.tv. Hope everyone's listening. Ford slash Jordan Fisher.

Yes, I got that out of here. Yep.

You're gonna follow.

All right.

You're gonna ring the little bell so you get a notification every time you go live.

It's right there.

That's right. Ring the little bell and you will be, if you say, hey, met Jordan IRL and he sent me here, you will be That's kind of like the speak easy z password. Like if I met Jordan IRL and he told me to come here, you will be so warmly welcomed and celebrated by like a few thousand of your new best friends. That's awesome. And it's just love. It feels like a family. That's great, man.

That's awesome. Excited for you for all the things. And if people follow you everywhere, then they'll see these announcements as well and they can stay up to date on all of it. This is a quick question I ask everyone at the end. It's called the three truths question. Okay. Hypothetical scenario. Okay. You live as long as you want, but eventually it's your last day on earth. Okay. You accomplish everything, you live the family life, you enjoy the moments, whatever you want to do, you get to create and manifest it. It all happens. But for whatever reason, in this hypothetical scenario, you've got to take all of your work and message with you or go somewhere else. All of your music, videos, Twitch streaming, this content, whatever you create in the future, for whatever reason, it's not here. Hypothetical. But you get to leave behind three lessons that you feel like you've learned and three lessons that you would share. And we don't have anything.

We don't have a prompt.

And we don't have any other content or information that is accessible that you've shared before. But these three things you get to share. They can be simple, profound, anything in between. I call it the three truths. What would you say are yours?

I love it so much. This is one of my favorite questions that I've ever been asked in my life.

I'm happy to hear that.

What an incredible, like I have to slow clap you. Like truly, you know, you get prompted some questions from time to time, but like the way that you set that up and then gave me, like it really gave, it's finite.

Mm-. This is all we have to remember.

It's gonna be concise. sweet and simple.

Give it to me.

Number one, always treat people with kindness first, period. Period. Because you don't know if, well, this is not as concise, you don't know if you are the last person that they speak to. You don't know if you're the last straw on the camel's back that made that comment to them that was just a passing moment for you, but the thing that drove them to do something horrible. You just don't know, ever, in the same way that they don't know. And you would probably like for people to know when you're feeling not great or in a bad mood, but you're not gonna tell people, but you kind of like for them to just kind of know so that they can comfort you and whatnot. Let's just eliminate all of the other bleep me out and just start with kindness.

Beautiful man.

Please wear your heart on your sleeve. Always wear your heart on your sleeve. Tell people how you feel about things. I was talking to my niece today who literally texted me out of the blue. She said, Jordan, thank you for making it so easy to talk to you. Randomly out of the blue, I could show you on my phone. I was like, Oh, and it's, it's very much that. I was like, if you can promise to just wear your heart on your sleeve and express how you feel about things, tell people, she said in the text message, she's like, you know, I have such a hard time with opening up and talking about things that really bother me. And I was like, I didn't say, I need you to promise me something. I was like, Can you do me a favor? Next time I ask you how your day was, I want you to pause and I want you to check in on your heart and your soul and I want to make sure that you are not lying to make things better than they are.

Sure. Sure.

I am asking you, my niece, how are you today? And I would like to know that I'm gonna get the honest answer. Because when you ask me, you know, sometimes I just like, I tell you things that are just like TMI, how like, oh yeah, and then I felt a little like, blam, but I got a little like anxiety or whatever, but like, you know, ultimately it worked out and like, you know, here we are today. How about you? Oh yeah, I'm good. Had a good day. It's not fair. To you, to me, we need to be, make it normal, like just normalize like the, how are you? Good, no, I don't do that anymore. I don't do that anymore. How are you? Good, good, good. That's always gonna be the answer. How you doing? I'm good. What's the point of asking someone how they're doing? What should that be? Let's talk about that for a second. What should that be? How are you? Mm-. How was your day today? that's a good one. When I'm in depression, like when I'm at my worst, you know, people that love me want to know how I'm doing.

Right.

Not a surface answer.

Right.

How are you feeling today? Are you feeling good? Like that's usually the thing. It's moment to moment.

Something I like to ask people. and I get caught up with saying, Hey, how's it going? How are you doing today? What I like to ask people and be intentional about is, what are you most grateful for today? And what's your biggest challenge you're going through today? And I think that it gives people the opportunity to respond with perspective on both sides. I'm really grateful for being here or my health or I had this conversation or I'm excited about this thing. And I'm also, my challenge is this right now. So, it allows the conversation to open up and to and maybe there's no challenge. Maybe there's no challenge. Maybe it's just all the gratitude and that's great. We can talk about that. -Yeah, exactly. We can talk about that. -So, what are you most grateful for.

Today or excited about and what are you challenging? -I'm going to use that every day. -Take it.

-I'M going to like it. That is one of my favorite.

Try it on. Try it on. -Okay.

Number three?

-Yes. So, we're going to always treat people with kindness.

For us, we're going to wear your heart on your sleeve.

Yeah, we're going to talk about our feelings. Number three, it's always the trickiest one, right? Like, you know, do you wish for more wishes? Number three, don't forget to play.

M, man, that's.

I stopped playing. I stopped playing when I was, like, in my early 20s and two. big for my britches and finding autonomy and starting to find success in my work in industry and everything. Took myself way too seriously. Needed to have a certain bravado and air for people to like know that I was good at what I did.

Respect me.

Respect me and like successful and all that stuff. I needed to know that I was the most successful person in the room and the hardest working person in the room and I needed to know that everybody knew that. Like it's being a three, dude. It's the three on the Enneagram scale. With toxic pairing of being a two as well.

So all of the- The 3-2 what?

I'm a 3-2. So I'm a three with a two wing.

Okay, yeah.

And what's the third one? Oh, like so, so I guess it would make, like the other side of it, like when I'm at my unhealthiest, I don't remember what that is. Yeah, gotcha. I'd have to look at the chart.

Gotcha.

Because I'm a 3-2.

But I'm a 3-2. 3-2. I think I'm a, 'cause two is what the- Two's the servant. So I think I'm a two's the helper. Yeah, I can't remember. I'm a 2-3-7 I think, Two seven three or something like that.

Yeah.

Yeah. Like your main and then your wing is like, this is what you have and this is like your other tendencies. And three is the performer, the doer, the exorcist.

I think I'm two three seven, I think. Helper. Yeah.

I can get that from you.

Yeah.

Definitely get like the two from you. Servant's heart.

You have a real like, I want to give and be of service. It's my mission. It's a beautiful disposition. You gotta make sure you're not abandoning.

Yourself in the service of man. What you understand. You're talking to the guy, ah, you gotta make sure you don't leave him in the corner in fetal position. Like, that's, I genuinely, I would imagine, we're going back to it, but like, I would imagine, like, little me in the corner crying, and I'm like, it's the most devastating thing in the world. Yeah. It's the beginning of that healing is really good. But yeah, don't forget to play. I'm having a kid, I've got a lot of little ones in my life, got kids and nieces and nephews and stuff, and when I'm in town and Aunt Ellie and Uncle Jordana and I, we are so fun.

We're such a good time. That's great.

You know, like we're like the, Hey, let's snuggle watch movies, eat food, all that good stuff. But like they eventually want to go jump on the trampoline and all that stuff. I got to that, I got in the bad habit. Gymnast, my body hurts, you know?

I got into the habit of like.

Oh, if I don't need to expend this energy, I'm gonna relax. I'm gonna save it so that I can like use it to work and like do what I need to get done. But the bottom line is like, They're gonna not, they're gonna stop asking me to play.

If you keep saying no.

And then eventually they're gonna not want to at all anymore. Like even if I did. I'm, every time I say I'm, I'm, I'm gonna cry. I'm losing that opportunity. When they came to me, asked for me to play with them, to go jump on the trampoline, And not just like sit with a cup of coffee on the porch and watch from the backyard with a glass of wine with the rest of the parents and watch because like I genuinely meant like I have more fun watching. I mean that, I have so much fun because you guys can go and do and stuff but like when you're.

There, they'll remember that more than anything. It means a lot to them.

Don't forget to play. And that's not just for like the dad talk, it's not just that.

Life, man.

Life. When you're making music, when you're writing your dissertation. Everything. When you're in the lab, when you're on the court.

Have fun.

Don't forget to play.

Jordan, I've got one final question before I ask you Jordan, and I wanna acknowledge you. I'm a big believer in acknowledging the people in our lives consistently. So acknowledgement is something I do with every episode. And I know you wanted acknowledgement in certain ways from your craft and just as a human being with peers and things like that. And it sounded like you didn't get that often unless you had a off night, which was probably the greatest performance most people would ever have. But you had a little off night. You were a nine out of 10, maybe not a 12 out of 10. So I want to acknowledge Jordan for the journey you've been on, for healing and being on the healing journey, for allowing yourself grace, for letting go of the perfectionists inside of you from young years to now. for making your mission about being the best father and partner and friend you can be, not the best success you can be. I think it's really inspiring to see someone your age with your amount of success, where you've come from, have that mission, especially growing up in the Hollywood world. So I really acknowledge you for your heart, for your energy and your presence. And I hope we can do more of this in the future.

Yeah, you're just a joy.

I appreciate it.

I can't wait for the next one.

I appreciate it. We're gonna have many rounds after this. My final question is what's your definition of greatness?

Transparency, I think. I think that the most successful, great, outstanding, respected people genuinely, like the biggest change makers are the ones that are most transparent, the most real, the most honest. That's my path to greatness, is just being transparent. Mm. You appreciate it, man.

Appreciate you, man. Thank you.

Thank you.

Much love to you. Thank you so much for listening.

I hope you enjoyed today's episode and.

Inspired you on your journey towards greatness.

Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full.

Rundown of today's show with all the important links. And also make sure to share this with a friend. and subscribe over on Apple Podcasts as well. I really love hearing feedback from you guys, so share a review over on Apple and let me know what part of this episode resonated with you the most. And if no one's told you lately, I want to remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great. going up.

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