How to Build Habits to Create Financial Abundance & Success w/Jen Sincero EP 1101

This is episode number 1101 with the New York Times bestselling mega author Jen Sinchero. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. Hal Elrod said, let today be the day you give up who you've been for who you can become. And Amelia Earhart said, the most effective way to do it is to do it. Oh, my guest today is Jen Sincero. And Jen is a number one New York Times bestselling author, most known for her book You are a badass as well as a success coach and motivational speaker who's helped countless people transform their personal and professional lives. She's written a new book called Badass Habits. Cultivate the Awareness, Boundaries and Daily Upgrades yous Need to Make Them Stick. And in this episode, we discuss how to stop feeling stuck in life, the habits of the most successful people, the skills Jen believes everyone needs to master for success, how you can reframe your fears to overcome them, how to go from being broke to having financial freedom, how to create habits that actually stick, and so much more. If you're enjoying this, make sure to share it with someone you think would be inspired by this as well. And a quick reminder to subscribe to the School of Greatness here on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or anywhere that you're listening to this, as well as give us a rating and review to let us know the part you enjoyed most from this episode. Okay, in just a moment, the one and only Jen Sinchero When I launched this podcast in 2013, I had no idea how complex the production process would get. From increasing the amount of shows per week to booking more and more guests, there is a lot to keep track of. But now that my team uses monday.com, I have the confidence to keep scaling up what the School of Greatness offers for my listeners without scaling up the complexity of the process for my team. monday.com Work OS is a customizable platform that gives my team the ability to easily create the tools we need and want, for the work we do. We've been able to create any workflow we can imagine on monday.com and it's made meeting our team's needs so much easier. Projects, leads, client requests, and more. All of these processes are kept organized in monday.com work OS. As our business continues to grow, we are able to stay efficient and focused with monday.com the platform are super flexible so teams can customize it to fit their needs. Create a workflow from scratch or simply pick a template, get started right away, and adjust it however you want. It's a great solution for teams of five or even 5,000. Collaborating across the globe is easy with monday.com For your free two-week trial, visit monday.com that's M-O-N-D-A-Y.com for your free two-week trial. If you're a business owner trying to hire, you're probably running into some obstacles as you try to find the right fit. We've been there too, as we work to grow our team. Maybe you're coming across challenges like needing to hire ASAP yet having tons of resumes to sort through. Or the reverse, not having enough applicants with the right qualifications because recruiting can be tricky. Trust me, we've been there many times. And hiring can feel like trying to find a needle in a haystack, which is why you should try ZipRecruiter for free at ziprecruiter.com/greatness. Here's how it works. When you post a job on ZipRecruiter, it gets sent out to over 100 top job sites with one click. Then ZipRecruiter's matching technology finds people with the right skills and experience for your job and then it actively invites them to apply. And get this, four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within their first day. It's insane. And no wonder over 2.3 million businesses have come to ZipRecruiter for their hiring needs. So while other companies overwhelm you with way too many options, ZipRecruiter finds you what you're looking for, the needle in the haystack. And right now you can try ZipRecruiter for free at this web address, ziprecruiter.com/greatness. Once again, remember to go to this unique place, ziprecruiter.com/G-R-E-A-T-N-E-S-S. ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire. Welcome everyone back to the School of Greatness podcast. Very excited about our guest, Jen Cinchero is in the house. Good to see you, Jen.

Good to see you.

Very excited about this. I was just telling you before that you are one of the few books that I've actually completed in my life. I've maybe finished cover to cover 20 books, no lie. I usually skim a lot of them. I'll dive in in pieces. I'll read half of a book, skim the rest type of mentality. But I finished your book in three days. You're a badass. So congratulations. on getting a dyslexia to complete a book. And I'm curious, you've got a new book out called Badass Habits, which is all about how to cultivate the awareness boundaries and daily upgrades you need to make them stick. And I want to start with a question about some of the habits you wish you would have started earlier in your life that held you back in a big way. What were some things you wish you would have done that you know now?

I wish, you know, Honestly, I'm so grateful for my life at this point that I'm very aware that it all happened for a reason and I wouldn't have a lot of ridiculous stories to write about in my book if I didn't fall flat on my face over and over.

So.

With that in mind, the only habit I wish I had gotten into earlier was practicing my guitar.

Why is that?

Because then I'd be so much better now. I still, I just, I suck. And it's like, I don't know, I just feel like that, okay. As I'm speaking, I'm thinking of more. I would say practicing my guitar and practicing languages. I would love to be better at Spanish and Italian.

Right? I just, for 20 years, I have been at the end of every year regretting that I did not pick up another language. And every year I would say, okay, this is the year, and I would try it for a week, and then it'd be so hard and exhausting that I was like, this is too hard for my brain to learn. and last year I finally said, okay, I've been saying this for 20 years. I either need to let go of this dream, this desire, and just say, you know what? It's not for me. I don't care anymore, or I need to go all in. And I finally hired a full-time Spanish teacher three days a week. And I'll tell you what, it is challenging, and I feel like I'm barely learning anything. I know I'm getting a lot better, but it still feels like it's so far away to be able to speak fluent Spanish, but. At least I'm not resenting myself and out of integrity for me saying I'm going to do this without doing it for 20 years.

So, all right.

I wish I had done the gauntlet as well.

You have thrown down the gauntlet, brother. I'm on it. Listen, let's have a Spanish off.

Are you, have you been taking lessons or no?

Well, I actually lived in Spain in the eighties and I just renovated my house and everybody spoke Spanish, which was awesome. And I'm pretty good. So what I need to do is go live there and just immerse myself. I'm going to live there alone, like nobody else who speaks English. But I would love to also learn Italian. And I'm finding that the little bit of Spanish I know trips me up so massively that I feel like I have to forget Spanish altogether. I don't know. But I'm going to get it together because I agree with you. And it's really fun. I think, I mean, God, it opens up so much more communication to so many more people.

So, so many more opportunities. I think there's, I don't know, what is there, 70 million people in the USA alone that I think speak Spanish? Something like that, 60 or 70 million. So a lot of people that we can connect with.

It's super cool.

Yeah, super cool.

All right, well, I love that.

So you inspired me. We're in it together. All right. I'm curious, if someone feels stuck or lacking self-confidence in taking on a new habit, like Spanish or like guitar or whatever it might be, what would you tell them? If they feel like, you know, I'm just stuck, I don't have the confidence to do this.

Get clear on what the specifics of that stuckness is. Like, why not? Why were you stuck? Like, what, it's gonna be hard, I'm gonna be bad at it. Like, what, do you know the specifics of?

I'm a slow learner. The story I'm telling myself is I'm a slow learner. I haven't found the right approach to learning this skill. I haven't found the right kind of resource that works for me. The time commitment is taking so long for me to learn hola, that how am I going to learn an entire language? My accent is embarrassing. I can't roll my Rs. All these whatever excuses that I tell myself that are like, well, if it's that challenging, then why should I even go after it?

Right. Well, and then you look at each one of those excuses and you take it apart, right? So it's like I'm a slow learner. so you're a young guy, you know, if you start now, then, you know, what is it going to take? Let's say it takes even 20 years. That's still awesome. In 20 years, you're gonna be fluent in Spanish.

It'd be amazing, you know?

So it's just, it's just about paring it down and, and questioning all your fears.

Absolutely. What do you think are some of the, the shocking habits that's really successful people in different aspects of life apply? That maybe you wouldn't think they apply, but it's something more shocking.

You know, I personally, the thing that shocked me the most when I started out was the habit of belief and the habit of speech.

What do you mean by those two?

So, you've read 8 Trillion Self-Help Books as have I, or half of them, So all of them talk about, you know, back in the day when I was starting out living in the garage and figuring out what my problem was, I was almost angry about hearing over and over and over your thoughts, beliefs, and where you create your reality. It's like, it cannot be that easy, right? That seems so simple to me. And if it's that easy and I'm 40 years old and I'm still living in a garage, I'm in a bad mood. So I was trying to make it much harder than it was. There had to be something much more mystical and difficult and, you know, just profound, right? But that habit changed my life when I finally got over the grouchiness and just signed on. And I think that, you know, we give it a lot of lip service, but to really shift your mindset and to be really conscious of your words and your thoughts and your beliefs is truly one of the most powerful things you can do. And that is why we won't shut up about it.

Is it words, thoughts and beliefs or is it thoughts, beliefs, and then the words you say. What's the format, the flow of it?

I am really glad you asked that question because I've seen it in both orders and I don't know. Because I've written, it was one of the things I opened with in Badass Habits, which is that great phrase, your thoughts create your beliefs, your beliefs create your words, your words create your habits, your habits create your reality. and I was like, well, is it thoughts or beliefs? So what do you think?

Well, I think you have a thought comes in, you see something, you hear something, and then it'll either support a belief you already have or it'll question a belief that you have or it'll create a new belief. So depending on if you have a belief already, if you're young enough, you may not have your beliefs yet. And so if you see a parent do something or you watch an experience that idea becomes a thought, which then will start to form a belief is what I'm thinking through right now. And those beliefs will shape how you view the world. And then what you say will back up the belief or the value that you have around that belief is what I'm thinking in this moment.

Okay, well, I'm gonna play devil's advocate. I totally agree with you. And I think they're all interchangeable, because if you tell yourself something over and over and over, it starts to create a new groove in your belief system and you start thinking differently. And if you take actions over and over and over, you start to believe differently. So I'm just going to say it can be whatever order you want.

That's true. That's true. And if you say it enough, you know, you can start to shape a belief around it. So the words, the words that we use are powerful. And anything after I am usually starts to manifest. I am ugly. I'm worthless. I can't do this, whatever it might be. We start to believe it. So the words really affect the way we think as well. It's, it's. It's interesting you say that because for the last year and a half, two years, I've been doing research and writing up my next book about overcoming self-doubt and believing in yourself because I have a thesis that it doesn't matter how talented or experienced you are, how much money or resources you have, how naturally gifted you are genetically, whatever it might be. And it doesn't matter if the entire world says you got this. If we don't believe we got this, we're not going to achieve what we want and we're not going to be happy or fulfilled. And, reversely, it doesn't matter if the world is against you or says you can't do something. And it doesn't matter if you don't have the resources and you're not genetically gifted or whatever it might be. If you believe in yourself so much and you follow through on the habits that confirm that belief and the actions daily I believe you can do pretty much anything. And so it just takes one. And I think that's what gets people hung up is they don't know the skill, the habit, like you said, of believing in themselves and learning how to manage their thoughts, their beliefs, their awareness to not put themselves down so much.

Right.

I feel like, again, I look at people that just have a lot of confidence and believe in themselves. It's like they can do anything. It's a superpower.

Absolutely. I think you're absolutely right. And I, you know, I'll tell you one of the things that inspired me so much back in the day was other writers who couldn't write their way out of a paper bag. I was like, if that jackass can get on the best seller list, what's my problem? Like, that's, you know, there are also amazing writers who inspired me, but I'm honestly more inspired by the people who just have the chutzpah to go out there. Just do it. And do it and be successful and.

You know, you're like, they're not that talented. You're like, they're not that good of a writer, but they did it.

Yes.

When did you learn to believe in yourself?

You know, it's interesting. I think I believe in myself in a lot of areas and I don't believe in myself in a lot of areas. So I think that we're all, you know, we're complicated creatures and, but I've always had, I don't know, just, I've always, if I get excited about something, I'm pretty unstoppable and I've always been that way. I talked my way into college, I was making films when I was like seven, you know, just sort of winging things when I was, you know, when I really didn't know what the hell I was doing. But I know there's other places that just fall flat on my face.

But the excitement around it, it sounds like when you're excited about something, then you start to believe, okay, I can figure this out.

And honestly, I think, and this is something that I really stress in my work, is that it's the emotional aspect of everything that's honestly even more important than the belief at the beginning. Because I believe if you're excited about something, so for example, with my whole money making stuff, like, you know, that was my big hurdle that I got over that sort of sent me on this trajectory of self-helpery. I didn't believe I could make money. I had a lifetime of proof that I sucked at it. But I was done being broke and I really was just unavailable for it anymore. So even though I didn't know how I was gonna get there, even though I'm probably gonna contradict myself right now, but even though I had proof that I couldn't do it and that I was terrified I couldn't do it and that I actually thought it was wrong to do it in some way, shape or form, I was really excited to do it. Being broke is so boring. And I knew deep down that like as my one and only time on planet earth as Jen Cinchero, living in a garage, driving around in a car with no grill was not what I'm here for. So I do think I did, I must have had some seed of belief. I don't think I had a lot of access to it, but I was honestly more excited about it. So that's what got me on the trajectory being like, I don't care. I don't care how much proof I have. I don't care how much fun my family is going to make of me. I don't care how wrong it is to focus on making money. I'm going to go do it because I'm excited about it. So I started with that and then I took the actions and I did all the thoughts, beliefs, words, habits, and all the stuff that they say to do. And slowly my belief started getting bigger and bigger and bigger.

Yeah, it sounds like sometimes we need to go through years or decades of pain and frustration to get us finally saying, you know what? I'm excited to never experience that anymore. Enough is enough. I'm ready to figure this out. I'm ready to overcome my excuses that I've been saying for decades. And so what did you learn through kind of this scarcity mindset of I can't make money or I don't know how to do this or I don't have the skills to the people to pay me more than what I'm making right now? what were the skills that you developed in order to create financial abundance for yourself?

First of all, becoming aware of what my stories were. So that was a very important first step. And also owning that it was my fault, that I was in control and that I had created it instead of being like, well, you can't make money as a writer and it's not okay to make money. Rich people are gross. Those were all things that I decided. you know, I have this whole theory that it's not original, but reality is make believe. It's whatever you make yourself believe. So if you can make yourself believe that, why not make yourself believe something awesome?

That's true.

So taking responsibility for my thoughts, beliefs, words and actions, and then changing them and doing whatever it took to change them. And that was really the big thing, was doing whatever it took. And this is. So critical. And this is where I think a lot of us sneak our way out of changing our lives is that we pretend we're working really hard, we're doing whatever it takes, which is what I was pretending until it gets too hard, too expensive, too risky that you're gonna look like an idiot. Doing whatever it takes means scaring the crap out of yourself. most of the time. So a lot of us are available up to a certain point and then we back down and we have a long list of excellent excuses as to why we can't be there or have the next step. So one of the other major major steps I took was hiring a coach. And this was over a decade ago when coaches, what the hell was a coach? Do you have a degree? Who the hell are you? But I, you know, heard this coach speaking on stage and it was as if she was reading my mail, like speaking right to me and she was helping women entrepreneurs with their finances specifically. And I was just like, and her fee was one third of my annual income at the time.

Wow. For the year, her coaching.

I don't even know if it was a year. No, I don't even think it was a year.

Six months or something. Yeah.

And for me, that was like so irresponsible, right? And impossible. And I had a long list of extremely, you know, respectable excuses as to why I shouldn't pay her that money. And because I wasn't screwing around, because I had really made the decision instead of just wanting to change, I looked to how am I going to pay her this money instead of all the reasons why I shouldn't. and that is, and that's your thoughts, beliefs and words right there. So that's why it is so transformative to get a handle on those.

Curious about this. Do you think it's more important to make the investment in something that scares you? Is that action more powerful than the actual learning that you get from the three months, six months, weekend workshop, coaching, whatever it might be, which one is more valuable? Taking the risk and saying, I'm investing in something that I don't know that I need to I know, because I'm sick and tired of feeling this way. And here's the money. Or is it the lessons that you get from that experience, however long that is?

They will both kick your and they're both valuable, but definitely doing the work. Because I believe me, as a coach, I've had plenty of people fork over money. They are terrified to pay me and then I never hear from them again.

They don't do the work.

They don't do the work. It's that kind of thing.

They're half committed. You gotta be all in. Yeah. So what did you learn in that first coaching experience at, I'm assuming you were 40 still around this age? You don't have the money to invest in this coach, but you're feeling like I need to do something and I've tried other things and they haven't worked, so I'm going to try this. And it was calling you. What did you learn that you know, that helped you break free of these old beliefs.

I guess at that, that I learned I was a total badass. Like, I learned that I was not screwing around because I did every single, I was like in the front of the class raising my, like I did every single thing she said, no matter how terrifying it was. And I tripled my income in three months after starting with her, you know, made the money back that I invested and, you know, and then someone paid off my debts and stuff.

So.

I think it was that I could do it. You know, for me, it really was like, all right, the impossible. It was the, I think all of us have a couple things in our lives that really seem impossible or out of reach that we see other people do that were just like, that part of my brain was left out when I was born. Like, I literally felt like other people, like I would see people in private jets or, you know, whatever. And they were like a different species to me. Quite frankly, they were like grown-ups and I was a 17 year old is sort of how I always felt. So I honestly felt in my core that it was unavailable to me, that kind of wealth or that kind of just grown up-ness and so in those first three months, I was like, I can do this. I was incorrect.

So you started to create new evidence and proof that there was a different belief than the thing you were holding on to for 40 or whatever years when you started to see specific results. How does someone gain that belief that there is going to be future evidence when they haven't gotten it yet, the results?

I don't know. I don't know. And that's why I say you got to be excited. because I think that, you know, and we can certainly, that's not true. We can look to other people who might have a similar story as ours and be like, well, he or she did it, so why can't I? And, you know, we can look for proof of little things that we've done or big things that we've done in other areas of our life. And be like, well, if I did that, why can't I do this? But sometimes, and I mean, especially for me and especially around money, it was so, heavy and so deep and, and, and, and, and, you know, and honestly, and one of the things that I learned at the beginning and I write about this in Badass Habits is I was so, we love to be right as humans, right? So we love it. And, and even when it doesn't serve us, we cling to rightness. Like, you know, if anybody had told me when I was in the garage that I could make money and that of course I could make as much money as I wanted to be as successful as I wanted. I would have been like, I have 40 years of proof that I can't. I am a 40 year old person living in a garage, driving around in a car that doesn't work. So I would defend it with my life, right? And we do this and we do this unconsciously because I believe the need to be right is very primal. We are on a ball in infinite space. so we need something to cling to.

Right? Right.

And so in all sorts. And we do this all the time about being right. My God, we sacrifice our happiness all the time for rightness when it doesn't serve us when we, you know, so. So. So, anyway, so when I was. When I sort of busted myself on that and was like, oh, my God, let it go and just see what you can get away with. Just see if you can get rich. Who gives a crap if you've spent your whole life broke? Let's just see if we can get away with it. And that kind of excitement and lightness is so important to me. That really helps me.

Yeah. Anytime I'm afraid of something, my thing is I create a fear list every year of the things I'm most afraid of that still hold me back or create insecurity or embarrassment or whatever it is. and I look at my fear list and in order to become fearless, I know I need to create an experience and a game around overcoming it, some type of challenge. It might be a week, it might be months, it might be a year, but I have to go all in on this and I've done this throughout my entire life and it's never easy, but when I make it a game and come up with the guidelines in my mind of what I need to do to overcome this, It becomes less scary, it becomes more enjoyable. I think, like you said, the excitement around discovering whatever that is, if you're not excited about that pain or insecurity or I'm going to fail and I'm excited, like you've got to reframe it somehow, otherwise it's always going to be scary.

Okay, Louis, I am going to become fluent in Spanish and I am going to get back to the fear game because I forget about that too. So thank you.

And once you make it, it's harder because it's easier to like, okay, I've made some money, I've got some success. It's easier to say, well, I'm pretty comfortable now. Why do I need to go in on this? But I find myself, when I don't continue to go into the fears, I don't know, it's just not as a rich life as when I'm struggling for something. for a period of time because I know it's going to make me better. And Spanish is not easy. It's getting, it's like three days a week. I'm like, okay, I have to remind myself this is all like enjoy the process. I'm not going to be fluent overnight. Enjoy a little win of being able to pronounce one word differently in this hour session and get excited about it. You've got to find the small wins along the way.

Yes, absolutely.

Now, what were the, I'm curious, you made, you know, triple your money back within the first three months. What were the things that you did differently to actually make that money? Was it positioning yourself? Was it raising rates? Was it communicating your offering better? What was the thing, was it emailing 20 people and asking them to be a client? What was that thing you actually did?

All of that.

Yeah.

And yeah, seriously. And also getting a damn income stream.

That.

It is amazing to me how hard, because we've been taught, work hard and you'll be successful. It's all about hard, right? So I was working my ass off as a freelance writer.

And you're like, I'm still in the garage. Seriously.

And so when I put together the hours that I spent hustling to get work, which was a lot, and then what I actually got paid to write versus how long it took me to write this stuff, and writing is difficult and it took me a while, I was probably making Under a dollar an hour total, right? So working harder was not a great way to go about it. Then I started knitting things to try and sell those. Like I was, I was a total train wreck.

You're trying everything.

Yeah, yeah, all stupid things. And then, and then honestly working with this coach and one of the things that she had me do was set up an online business and I knew nothing about online marketing. I of course thought it was beyond cheesy and, you know, snake oil salesy. And I was in a punk band and I was super cool and I wasn't gonna do that. But because-- you-'re not gonna sell out.

Yeah, any artist would never do that. You're gonna sell out.

Thank you, yes. And so, you know, one of the things that I had to do was get over myself and prioritize and I'll never forget she said to me once, I was like, isn't there something a little less cheesy that I could do? 'Cause it was all about writing and selling your nonfiction book proposal. And I didn't want to be the book proposal lady, you know, and online sales. Like, Hey, have you always thought about writing a book? I can help you in these three easy steps. Like, there's a formula to it, right? And there's a reason that there's formula because it works. And she was like, well, yeah, you have two choices. You can either be broken, cool, or rich and cheesy. Which do you want? Okay, rich and cheesy. But the great thing, so I had to really get over my ego and my identity or whatever. But the beautiful thing is, is at the beginning, I was writing it in very online marketing language and my voice was very all over the place as far as authenticity versus what works. But the longer I did it, the more I started putting it in my own voice. And that's actually what started the whole youe Are a Badass stuff was, you know, taking something standard and making it mine. And if I hadn't even gotten started, and this is, I think, something that's so important for people to remember, is like, just get started.

Don't ruminate on this for years and think about it. Don't strategize the perfect thing. Just do it and then update your strategy as you go.

Exactly. Because guess what? You don't know what you're doing because you never done it before. So just get in the game and learn. I know. getting in the game was huge.

So, so you just got it. You jumped in, you took action, you were like, okay, I'm going to try this out. And you just started doing, which. Yeah, well, first you had to be, and then you did, and then you started to receive. And, you know, you did a lot of emotional intelligence work as well. I I went through a number of different emotional intelligence workshops about seven, eight years ago myself, and that's when abundance truly started to unlock for me personally when I started to learn how to heal the emotions of my past traumas of the past, learn how to actually accept myself and love myself for where I was at and work to get better obviously, but not beat myself up. And I think it's hard for people to build wealth and find fulfillment at the same time if they don't learn to heal the past and actually love themselves. And I love how you spoke about this consistently throughout you are a badass, which is nothing else matters if you're beating yourself up and if you don't love yourself. When did you learn kind of how to love yourself so that you could attract more and you could build your business more?

I'm still learning. You know, it's definitely not unconditional love over here. And, you know, it's funny, I put love yourself at the end of every single chapter, and you are a badass and. I needed to hear it too. You know, that's, you know, we do our work. I don't know about you, but a lot of my work is a lot of what I need to hear.

Absolutely.

So I think I was learning to love myself when I allowed myself to, you know, admit I wanted to make money, admit that it was okay, admit that, you know, letting myself hire that coach, You know, I don't think I could have done all of those things if I didn't, you know, investing in yourself means you're vested in yourself. So I think that was really coming around to letting go of the sort of settling and the righteousness about being broke and the identity that came with that whatever ego was around that and just letting it go and free falling into I don't know, like I don't really know what I'm doing, but I'm kind of awesome and I think I'll figure it out.

And what do you think for those who aren't happy right now, they may be listening and they're not happy with their financial situation? What would you say would be the first few steps for them? Is there some prompts they could go through and write down first to question or analyze beliefs? Is there Should they look at their bank account and see how many revenue streams they have coming in? Should they look at if they're, should they invest in a coach? If so, you know, what should they be looking at as action steps?

I definitely think the best place to start is your thoughts, beliefs and words. So I have an exercise that I love that just was so sobering for me back in the day. Have you ever done that one where you write a letter to money as if it's It's a person.

I'm not sure if I've done that exactly. I've written many letters to myself. Future self, past self. But tell me, tell me this.

You mean, yes. I, yeah, it's where you write a letter to money as if it's a person and you do a very stream of consciousness and you just let it rip and It's so illuminating because most of us have such a push-pull going on with money where it's like, of course, like if you handed me 10 grand, I'd be like, thank you very much. This is awesome. But then we also feel dirty for pursuing money. We think rich people have no morals. We think we'll have to sacrifice the things we love. We think we'll lose friends and family if we get rich. We'll, you know, whatever. And so when you do it stream of consciousness and really treat it as if it's a person or a thing, It blew my tiny mind when I saw it.

What happened to you? What were your?

Oh my God. Well, my, okay. So I had lots of, I love you.

I wish you, I love you. I want more of you. Get out of my life. It was like a dramatic relationship, yeah.

Yeah, it is. It's an abusive relationship. And they say if you take the money out and you replace intimacy into like man or woman, whatever you're into, Samezies. Yeah, it's the whole thing. I mean, you got to be ready to be super humiliated if you're going to do any of this work. But mine was all, I love you. I wish I had more of you. I resent needing you. I don't trust that you'll stick around.

Ooh, man.

All that kind of stuff.

And how were your intimate relationships during that time?

Same.

I want you, but I don't trust you.

Yeah. Really, my hair is still standing up. So that's a real doozy. And then once you get all of your dirty laundry out on the page, then you can start questioning it, you know, like we were talking about.

So how did you question personally what came up for you?

And how did you-- you- know how-- yeah.

Take me back, Jen. Take me back to the painful-- I'm.

Gonna go pour a drink. I'll be right back. Ah, you know, I don't remember. Okay, let me think.

Was there one thing that stood out the most where you're like, oh, I realize I've been doing this and why would money ever come to me consistently because of this thought?

Oh my God, I'll tell you the biggest, yes, totally blew my mind. It actually wasn't from writing the letter. I did, I know I had a lot of things with the letter. But the one that just brought me to my knees was I was at yet another coaching seminar in Las Vegas or something, and there was another brilliant coach speaking on the stage, and his fee for an annual private thing was $85,000. And I was just like, you know, I come from Italian immigrants. My dad came over, you know, he's kept his money buried in the backyard. Like he had no idea. I was talking about with all this stuff. And, and I remember because I was hardcore and not screwing around, and I'd made that decision to figure out how instead of figure out why not, I was like, all right, how am I gonna get $85,000 to work with this man? And, God, I feel like I'm gonna throw up just telling you this. I, the thought of that, like opening myself up to that possibility, I mean, that's house money, that's like as irresponsible as as it gets, right? And the fact, just the mere act of opening myself up to that and making myself available to be somebody who would find 85,000.

And saying, if it were possible, how would I do it?

Yeah.

And so what did you first say?

Oh my God. Okay, I actually get a lot of my information through quick visual visions. And I had this image of my dad who so sweet and not the best at showing intimacy, but he loved me to death. And the way that he would show me was by giving me a 20 or helping me with my rent that month or whatever. It was always through money, is how he showed affection. And I had this image of him in his little yellow v-neck sweater, which I have now made kind of famous, but with his hands in his pockets. looking at his feet so sad because if I got rich, I wouldn't need him anymore. And that's what was holding me back.

Really?

It was like I literally that vision like had slime on it. It's like I dredged it up from the bottom of my emotional swamp. Like it was, it was so profound for me. It really blew my mind and and it changed a lot of stuff for me moving forward.

So when you came to realize that, did you, this was all just unconscious. You weren't even thinking about it before, but you knew that's how you got love and he was able to express love in that form by helping in some way financially or something like that. So when you realized that, did you address him about it or was it more about you addressing with yourself and letting it go and realizing that he's still gonna love you even if it's not through that way? What was that process like?

It was awesome. I started visualizing him being really proud of me, which he totally was, and being happy for me and feeling relief that I wasn't going to be, you know, living in a gutter next week. And this was the biggest part for me, which I cannot believe I was able to do because I have issues around this with my dad, but I still let him give me money because in the old days, I was like, you don't see who I am. I just told you I got a million bucks for a book deal. Like, you're not listening to me. But he, it's the, it's all he knew how to do. So I would tell him all of my great successes. And at the end of the conversation, he'd always be like, well, you need some money.

You need $100.

I can, and I'd be like, sure, Dad, that'd be great. And it made him really happy. I always like to get a hundred bucks.

Yeah, yeah, of course.

And it really healed our relationship. It was amazing on so many levels. And I think this is common for a lot of people. I think a lot of people don't realize that what's holding them back is they don't want to outshine their parents in some way.

Yeah, or their siblings or anyone in the family.

It's abandonment.

It's hard when you're like, I think there's a, A lesson in the 48 Laws of Power by Robert Greene. I think it's maybe in that book, which is not saying we should live by this book because it's more about strategies of like war and power, but there's some good lessons, there's some amazing lessons in there. And one of them is I think it's never outshine your mentors. Like always pay respect. Like you can do greater things, but make sure you're always paying respect to your mentors and not like belittling them once you surpass them type of thing. And so I think it's a figuring out how do we continue to let our stars shine bright, but also continue to elevate the mentors that were there before us and give them the honor and respect.

Oh, yeah.

You were able to heal that, you feel like, from that process of just discovery and awareness? Yeah.

Yeah. And it was so fun after that, seeing how much joy it gave him to give me money. I was like, oh my God, that's like, that's so dear.

So you didn't stop receiving money even though you didn't from him, even though you were like, I don't need to feel loved and I don't need the money anymore. You didn't stop it because it allowed him to express his feelings and emotions and yeah, for you, right?

But how much of a sacrifice is that for me? I mean, whoop-de-doo. So he, that's, it's just all he knew, you know.

That's beautiful. What was, so what were the steps on how you got the $85,000? Or is that something you invested in or no?

Yeah, I did. I did.

$85,000, that's a lot of money for coaching. What, so you thought to yourself, there's no way I could do this, but then you started to shift and say, well, okay, if it was possible, how would I do this? What did you do?

God. Well, I love the processes. I edit. Oh my gosh. Okay, so this is why also I'm always screaming and yelling about you have got to do stuff that scares you.

Scares you. Scares you.

If you are not scared, you are on the wrong track. It is so important.

And here's the thing, before you get into what you're about to say, like if you didn't figure out a way to make that investment, What's good to like that process is going to accelerate everything because now you need to be in motion, you need to overcome fears, you're in action, you're creating mode as opposed to safe mode and like, well, I don't know how I'm going to make it. So I'm just going to stay where I'm at. So it forced you to get into creativity, action, value into the world. So, so what did you do?

After I finished throwing up, I, you know, I actually, to be clear, and this is all such a long time ago that I don't remember all the details. I ended up not working with that particular coach, but then there was another coach who charged just as much. Yeah. And, and I ended up hiring that coach. I, you know, and I, and I remember, you know, it's, and this is, this, what is this saying? I can't remember the actual saying, but it's like when you desire something, when you really, really, really desire it, you can't have the desire. without the means to make it manifest. If it's a real desire, because you know, day sire is of, it's Latin, not Spanish, but day sire is of God, the sire, the father. So it's been given to you by the universe. So why would the universe give you desire? And they'd be like, psych, can't have it, right?

Interesting. So if you desire something, if you want something deeply, you're saying that the universe has the tools and resources for you to manifest it.

Yes. And this is going way out to the cosmos.

Bring it.

You literally cannot have a thought and a desire without the manifestation of without whatever it is already in existence because they are one and the same. Because time and space are not real and blah-blah-blah. I don't really understand it, but I've read it. Have you ever read the Science of Getting Rich by Wallace Wattles?

No, but that's what I think Rhonda Byrne read and created the secret from. I think it was that book was the... Okay, first of all, it's like this thick.

It's so short, you'll love it. Okay. The Science of Getting Rich, is that what it is? The Science of Getting Rich by Wallace Wattles. I've read it 600 a thousand times. That was my go-to. I loved it. And there's a line that I used to memorize. What you think is to think the truth, regardless of your environment or something like that. What you think is to think the truth. So what you think is the truth, regardless of your surroundings. And it really goes into the fact that the universe is a thinking substance. And when you press your thoughts into it. It makes and it's like, it's, it's, it's almost like it's a giant gooey blob.

And so the process of investing in that 75 or 80, 5, 000, what were the action steps on how you were able to think, okay, how do I do this? I don't have the resources. I don't have the money.

Right.

What were the process of thinking, acting, creating value and attracting that money to invest in it?

So what I did was I really looked through everything I could sell and my, you know, really it was, and.

Then I was like- sell my car, my cat, everything.

Yes, literally my knitted things. And then I was like, I'm gonna have to borrow it from somebody and I'm going to have to ask somebody for it. And I'm not gonna say who I went to 'cause they asked me not to, but I had somebody in my life who really believed in me who was much older, who didn't know anything, who totally thought this coaching stuff was malarkey and what the, you know, very old school. But I knew they had money and I knew they really believed in me. So I got on a plane the next day. I called them and I was like, I'm gonna be there tomorrow. So I had to buy a ticket for the next day, which was like $1,000, even in coach, which I was still flying.

Yeah.

Yeah. And for me, that was like, a thousand dollars. But I did it 'cause I was just, and I just, I remember, oh my God, this was such a weird moment where, I was so nervous about all of it that I had a chocolate bar. And I am not an emotional eater. I have other freaky things I do. But I remember just like shoveling this chocolate bar in my mouth like I'm emotional eating. This is what it feels like. And just eating this whole chocolate bar, getting on the plane the next day, flying out to see this person and you know, sort of spending the day and just being like, you know, I just, I want you to know everything's okay. there's nothing to worry about. And then asking them and just sort of explaining like, I've been working with Coaches, I have had such incredible success and I feel like to really get to the next level of where I want to be, I really believe I need this and I really believe in this person who can help me. And I mean, when I told them the price tag, I will never forget the look on their face. Like, like incredulous and we just sat there with it and I was like, that's you know, that's what I'm asking. Oh my God, I'm gonna cry. Um, and they wrote me a check.

Wow.

And I made the money back. Maybe, I mean, maybe that year, like I, I, and, and I hustled. I was like, you know, this person so believes in me. I'm not, this is not, this is about not letting myself down, not letting them down, you know, whatever, but But I made it back and kept doubling my income from then on. Yeah, so I can't tell you how much I did not want to ask them for that money.

It's the worst thing in the world when you don't have money for something and you ask whether it's even a parent or a friend, it's the worst feeling. I remember when I was 23 to 27, I was broke. I was living on my sister's couch for about a year and a half during that time. and every day I felt like a bum because I wasn't paying rent for that year and a half. I wasn't paying for food. I really wasn't contributing in any way financially. And I remember every day I was mooching off my sister. I was just thinking to myself, I never want to have this feeling ever again. It's the worst feeling. Sometimes it's necessary, depending on where you're at in your life, and you might need phase of a period of time. But eventually, one of the greatest things that happened was my sister said, she was just too nice. She let me, it was supposed to be like a month, she let me stay for a year and a half. And she said, okay, Louis, like it's time you start paying rent. And it was the scariest thing ever, but it was also the greatest gift she gave me because she was like, you either need to pay rent or you need to leave because I need to find like another renter here, like whatever. and so I left. So I left because I didn't want to pay rent. And I went to my older brother. Oh, my God.

Good thing you have a big family.

And I said to him, hey, I need a place to stay. I don't have any money. And he said, okay, but my wife is saying you got to pay something. So you got to pay 250 bucks a month. And for me, that was like, where am I gonna get 250 dollars?

And.

But again, it was a gift because it got me, like, saying, okay, I gotta go find this. I gotta go. Like, I gotta get over myself and go make that money. And I don't want to rely on, like, living in my brother and his wife's house every day. I need to get enough money to pay for my own apartment. So that gave me the energy and the. The clarity to start working and hustling. I'm curious, what were the action steps you took during that? to package or position or bring in new clients, what was the thing that allowed you to make that money back?

Hustling. And again, though, not just hustling, but creating big coaching packages. Like it's about the income stream, right? Like if it's about money, get your ducks in a row about income streams and ways to make the money. So, you know, because I was working with a Coach who was at a much higher level than me, they could see what I had going for me already, what I was good at, what networking, you know? So, they, and that's the thing that's so fascinating to me is like, Coaches, God! Yes, they often cost a very lots of money, but they save you so much money because you don't spend five years trying to figure out stuff they can figure out in a half an hour conversation. so, you know, figured out a couple income streams. It was, it was more, I, I did a lot more private coaching from then on where I would, you know, get these, like, six month coaching packages. I wasn't charging 85, 000 yet, but I was charging a lot. And, and I believe around that time is when I started writing, you are a badass. Yeah. So, I mean, I had no idea. I mean, I got like $35,000 as an advance for that. That was not, I wasn't like, I will write it and it will be on the New York Times list.

Like, yeah, hope, but no way. But you're like, 35 grand, you're like, this is great, I'll take this money. Exactly. And I'll help pay off some of my debt and help me get more and it'll be a nice piece for.

Me to showcase my talent and I'll.

Bring in other clients. Exactly. It was more of a business card than anything. Well, that business card turned into helping millions of people. So I'm glad you wrote the business card. I'm curious, you know, a friend of mine, Dean Gracioci, who's a brilliant entrepreneur coach, he says that you pay attention to what you pay for. And when we don't invest in something that isn't scary or that isn't at least important enough because you're like, wow, I just put this much money in something. You put your attention and time into improving, into letting go of something or into, in turn, making that money back, whatever that money was invested for. you really start to pay attention to more of your time and energy when you invest more. Like you didn't say, let me try to like maybe make this money 75 grand back. Let me dabble in this a little bit here and there.

Right.

You went all in.

Well, I'll tell you, you'd think so, but it isn't guaranteed. There's that. Do you know that whole 80 20 rule that they talk about?

Like, yeah.

So 20, you know, 80 of people drop off and 20 actually do what they set out to do. And I see it all the time. I mean, I had online courses that were, I don't know, five or $6,000, which is not nothing. By the end, 20% of the people would still be showing up for the calls. And these were like two month long courses. It wasn't like it was years and you had to stick around. It was like, seriously people, and it was just for a phone call every two weeks or whatever it was. But absolutely people, you know, it depends who you are.

I think you've got to want it bad enough.

Yeah.

And you've got to be willing to say, this is not going to be easy. It's going to have painful times. And I really try to visualize in my days, you know, I try to visualize everything I want and, you know, it unfolding in a seamless way the way I imagine it. But I also prepare for how am I going to respond and react when things don't go my way. When something gets in the way or I'm distracted or I'm sick for a few days, like how am I going to arm myself with the tools or accountability or the coaching or the strategies to then continue to take the actions so that I don't go off the rails on what my commitments are, because nothing is going to be perfect in our journey, right? So we've got to create those tools and strategies for when things go wrong, how you're going to keep showing up.

I love that. And the beautiful thing about being human is we are not very original when it it comes to our excuses and our distractions and all the ways that we try to knock ourselves off. So you know what they are. You know them by heart. So congratulations.

Exactly. How do you think we actually make these habits stick? You know, we invest in a $5,000 course and it's only a couple months, but after three weeks, we lose excitement, you know, on whatever it is, our health, our our relationships, our finances. How do we actually get these things to stick?

Well, one of the things that, one of the most important things I think is keeping that excitement up because it really is about staying connected to it and realizing that it's worth it when it gets sucky. Because as you said, it is going to. Don't be surprised that it gets sucky because it's going to. So I always talk about going to the spiritual gym, which is, you know, mindset and excitement are muscles. and like any other muscle, you don't get to go to the gym and get in shape and then stop going to the gym because now you're in shape. You have to continuously work it out. So the spiritual gym is constantly reading self-help books, constantly listening to inspirational speakers, meditating, listening to music that totally pumps you up, walking around in nature, having a mastermind partner, you know, getting a Coach, all of those things keep that muscle in shape because mind, I mean, how changing your mind. I mean, we do it like six trillion times a day. So keeping it strong takes a practice. It does.

And even when you know, even when you've gotten results in the past or you've been healthy and fit for a while, it's easy to just say, I got this figured out and take a month off and realize, oh, I just gained 15 pounds and I'm like tired from walking now. It's a consistent thing you've got to do. I know from experience, it's a consistent thing you've got to do is to pay attention to things that matter that you're excited about that you want. And you can't really take time off on habits to support you in accomplishing your goals. You can relax and take vacations and you can take moments and things like that, but in order to really continue to grow, you've got to keep putting in the work.

Absolutely. And I think, yeah, absolutely. And I think also with habits, getting into the habit of the habit is really important. Where, you know, so let's say you're working out every day and you go to the gym for an hour and a half, you know, there are going to be days when it is the last thing you want to do, but you just drag yourself there. And even if you just stay for 10 minutes, you're still in the habit of going to the gym. You're still a person. You still identify as somebody who works out. mm-. So that's, that's great. If you can just get into the habit of the habit.

And the thing that, you know, if you are a, a driven person, if you feel like you're busy and you've got a lot going on, for whatever reason, health seems to be the last thing on our minds to want to do at the end of the night. And so I like to layer the, the habit building or accountability, which is one. have an accountability friend or buddy that you, you have to go to do something with so that you're relying on them and they're relying on you. You're accountable to each other and you don't want to let someone down. Two, I think it's, if you can invest in a coach, whether it be a trainer or something where they're showing up, you've paid for them, you're not going to miss it. You're going to look really embarrassing if you don't show up and you've paid for it. So try to layer the amount of accountability for yourself so that there's just no excuse. and it's gonna cost money and it's gonna take energy and effort, but that's what's gonna keep you healthy and abundant and growing. So that's what I try to do. I have coaches with every area of my life, from relationships to meditation to business to my fitness. And I think it's, you can get great results on your own, but it's just hard to be as consistent in all the areas on your own.

I love that. That's so smart. And I kind of, I love, you just made me think, like, just the layering of the accountability. It's almost like there's categories. There's like financial humiliation, right? Like everything just accountability, everything.

And again, I think about this a lot where I'm like, I do pretty well on my own. I can get good results, I can accomplish my goals, I can stay pretty fit. I have good relationships. But I just know that when I pay for a coach who is world class, like, I've got a boxing coach right now because I wanted to start this year of, like, learning boxing. And. And I've been running a lot in during the pandemic, and I just. All I do is run. There's no gyms open here in La. So it's like, I'm like, I want to mix it up and be more athletic.

And.

And I was like, okay, I could go to a boxing gym class. There are outdoor classes with masks and everything. I could go to a class and pay 25 bucks, and there will be coaches there and a group of people. I can do that and I'm gonna get a good workout. Or I can go to a one-on-one private lesson and pay a lot from someone who's an Olympic medalist and it'll accelerate the process so much faster. And it's gonna commit me to wanting to be healthier in between so that I have more energy during that class. It's like the different levels of layering the opportunity for you to succeed. I suppose you say, okay, I put it in my calendar, then I'm gonna work out. three days a week. Like you're gonna miss one of those days probably because life happens and you're not feeling good. It's like you've got to stack the opportunities in your favor. I don't know. This is what I've learned as an athlete for my entire life. It's like you've got to have a coach there watching you. Otherwise, how are you gonna hold yourself accountable?

Olympic athletes have coaches. Why do we think we can do it without them? You know what I mean?

They can't get there on their own.

Right. Yeah.

I'm curious, what are a few things that you think rich people do that poor people don't do? Some of the habits, the mindset or the habits.

All right.

The ones that have actually made their own wealth, not the ones that just, like, given the wealth to them.

Right. I think they invest in themselves over and over again. Like you just said, I think they watch their minds, their thoughts, beliefs and words, and they, they speak with very serious intention. They continuously educate themselves. They focus on making money. And that is such a big deal because money is the most loaded topic we've got going on. I mean, I really think it's more loaded than sex and religion. And when I I've written about all of it and I feel like, wow, money, they don't hold a candle to money. You know, think about it. If you tell people like, you know what, this year I am going to get so rich, I am just gonna focus on making tons of money as much money as I can. Instantly, people's thoughts go to, you,'re gonna do things that are bad and amoral to make that money. We instantly go there, don't we? why?

What do you think is the belief that has shaped that in our minds?

I would love to know because that is, it's so, there's got to be, I don't know, some sort of conspiracy theory around like controlling people so they think money is bad so they don't get too much power. I don't know. I have no idea. But, but yeah, maybe it is because I feel like that's what it's about with religion and sex. So it's probably about mind control somehow or keep the masses down. I don't know.

You know, like you said, you know, it was, it was hard being, living in the garage and not making much money. It's, it's hard being a human being with money as well. There's still challenges that come up. But I tell you what, it's a lot more enjoyable to have problems with money than to have problems without money.

Absolutely. And so when people are like, money can't buy happiness, I'm like, Yeah, I mean, you can certainly be unhappy with money, certainly. But it's so much easier. Money is just gives you options and freedom. I love options and freedom. Options and freedom make me happy.

Yeah, you still have to heal your past. You still have to learn how to manage your emotions. You still have to deal with people you don't want to deal with. You still have problems, conflict, challenges, different problems that may come, which is, people wanted to take advantage, whatever it might be, that you need to overcome different things. But it's definitely much more enjoyable than needing to rely on my sister or brother to live for a few years and feel like I can't buy my own food. Like, at least, you know, I can pay for food. You know, I still have relationship challenges. I still have health challenges that I need to overcome, but at least I can pay for things.

Yes. Oh, it's so nice.

If you're going to be going through a life that is challenging, you might as well learn to make money to try to minimize some of those challenges the best you can, right?

Absolutely. I mean, we live in a reality that relies on money for everything. Like it's a tool. It is the tool of exchange. So why wouldn't you want enough to make it easy to live, you know?

And when someone who you think is, if they're terrible at sticking with their habits, what do you think is a practice they could do to start with small habits to get started? Whether it's around money or just a habit in general that they always break.

I start out the, I give a 21-day course in the Habits Book and the first day is about getting a mantra in place.

Yeah.

You know, I love this. Yeah.

Why is mantra so valuable and what is the mantra that you use?

Well, so the, you know, thoughts, beliefs and words. And they're so valuable because, you know, we were talking earlier about the, you know, we want to be right. So we love being right. And our words reinforce our rightness. So whatever our thoughts and beliefs are, our words are sort of building a foundation of a reality, right? They are the building blocks. of our realities. So for example, when I was living in the garage, my mantra was, I can't afford it. I said I can't afford it 600 times a day. And so when I decided I was going to get rich, I was like, you know, perhaps I should ditch the old, I can't afford it, and come up with a new mantra. So of course, the first step is awareness. And then to write the new mantra, you have to go deep into what you're holding, like what I can't afford it was protecting me from, what my fears were around being able to afford it, you know? So I did a ton of work and I break it down in the book because it is kind of, it's much too involved to go into here, but my new mantra ended up being money flows to me easily and freely. And I really want to point out that when I was living in the garage, eating tuna out of a can, money was not flowing to me easily and freely, right? So that whole belief thing was definitely a stretch. But I loved the, like, ease and freedom and flow. Like, for me, all of my, I can't afford it, was around being constrained and bad and, like, blocking myself. And so the flow, ease and freedom, when I did the whole little you know, process of figuring out my mantra. That's what gave me the feeling of just like, oh yeah, that feels great. So how the mantra works then is I am now looking to money flows to me easily and freely. So every time I wanted to say I can't afford it, I would say money flows to me easily and freely. And because I am a human and I still love to be right, I now set about proving that money flows to me easily and freely instead of proving.

That's right. Yeah. Right?

Interesting. So I'd find a dollar on the street. Money flows easily and freely. I'd get some crappy freelance writing job. Money flows to me easily and freely. And the other thing it did is it brought into my radar stuff that was always there, but because I was so busy proving I can't afford it, and we are doing this all the time without realizing it, I was literally, I put on the blinders because if it didn't fall into, I can't afford it, then I couldn't even so all the stuff that was always there that was going to help me make money, like for example, the coach that I ended up hiring who totally changed my life. I can't afford it. I can't afford it. It's a third of my annual income. But when I started saying money flows to me easily and freely, I had to hire her because money flows to me easily and freely. So it really kicks your butt in such a great way. If you're really serious about it, and if you write a mantra that feels really good. You do not have to believe the mantra at first. That's a really important thing to remember.

I was going to ask you about that. How do we say something if it's out of integrity to what is in the moment not true?

Right.

How do we, because I believe that, you know, in order to build confidence, we've got to be in integrity with our word. So how do we have the belief of a greater future and say this mantra even though we haven't yet proven it with those factual, tangible things.

So it depends how you define integrity.

Okay.

So it's like, okay, it's acting as if, right?

Yeah.

I think there's integrity in respecting your excitement. So, you know, you want to learn Spanish. You are excited about it. It has great meaning to you and you think you know, it's going to improve your life in so many different ways. That sort of walk around being like, I'm great at Spanish. That's not so bad, right? If you're just like, I am great at Spanish. I speak Spanish fluently. I'm great at it. That feels really good. And it's in integrity with your desire. So I say integrity matters when it comes to desire, not environment. because environment is make believe.

It's interesting. I, I have had Joe Dispenza on many times. And one of the things that he said recently, I hope I'm remembering correctly, and he was like, you know, a lot of us remember our past, or we make stories up about our past that weren't even real. We, we magnify these stories and, and imagine things that actually didn't happen or we blow them out of proportion that wasn't actually real. But what we need to start doing is remembering the memories of our future and remembering our future memories, because these things are going to be happening. So imagining them happening and remembering them now before they happen, it will put you in the state of being to start manifesting those things. So similar kind of way you already said, which is like, okay, you're excited about this. You're desiring this thing. You're imagining it happening in the future and speaking as if it's happened in the future now is just bringing you closer to that thing that you want. So I think it's interesting. I never heard someone really say it that way. Remember the memories of your future. But if we are really, if we're really, you know, I believe that we're infinite. There's no beginning and end in time wise and in a spiritual world. And for, if something's already, you know, it's going to happen, then, then it's, you've got that experience. You can just connect to that experience that's happening in the future. So.

Right. I don't know.

We're getting out here a little bit now, but what do you think is the thing that holds people back the most? Is it the desire to be right about beliefs? Is it the affection or the things that they gain by being stuck in this situation, whether it be someone giving them attention or whatever it may be, what do you think is the thing that holds us back the most from actually having everything we want and being fulfilled?

I mean, those are biggies that you just said.

I think this is the school of greatness, Dennis, not the school of average, you know?

I think I'm gonna go with abandonment, Bob, for 1000. I'm gonna say abandonment. Being abandoned.

The fear of being abandoned.

The fear of being abandoned. So I think on a very primal level, especially as babies, if we are abandoned, we die. And, and, you know, being rejected is about being abandoned, changing your identity, which you have to do in order to change who you're being.

Right.

So the, the fear of that is abandonment. If you change who you are, the people who love you, love you for who you are right now, you know, and this is honestly. I have yet to do a talk and a Q&A where the question does not come up where somebody says, what do you do when the people closest to you don't support your growth? Right? Most common question ever. The reason it's so common is because when you change who you're being, the people you love are at the greatest risk, right? So Joe Schmoe down the street, when you're like, Hey, I'm gonna quit my job and open up a restaurant. Your mother might tell you how risky it is, how restaurants, you know, one out of 10 restaurants restaurants succeed and your friends will make fun of you because now you're, you know, think you're Mr. Big Stuff or whatever, but Joe Schmo down the street's like, Rock on! And you're like, why is Joe Schmo all happy for me when the people who allegedly love me are dragging me down? And it's because subconsciously, mostly, they're afraid that you're gonna change and they're gonna lose you and you're basically killing off your old identity. who's the person they love, right? And they also, this is also part of it, they're no longer right and they love to be right. They are right about who you are and if that changes, and they also love to be right about the fact that you can't do something like that. That's risky and scary. So it's just, it's just a mess. But the bottom line is you're, a lot of people won't, they'll stay small. They won't go after their hopes and dreams because they'll, they don't want to risk losing the people closest to them.

This is so true. Everything you're saying, I resonate with so deeply. I'm, I believe that we have three main fears that hold us back from being great. The fear of failure, the fear of success, and the fear of judgment or other people's opinions. And when I, on my last book tour four years ago, I would ask people this question. I was like, how many of you are afraid to fail? And, you know, a lot of people would raise their hand in the room. half the people in the room or whatever. And then I'd say, how many of you are afraid of success? And I would see just as many people raising their hand who said they're afraid of success. And as an athlete growing up, I don't know if you played sports, gen, but as an athlete, you learn that failure is information, it's feedback. It's necessary to, to learn how to catch the ball, how to score, how to do these things. So it was a process towards accomplishing your goal. So for me as an athlete, I knew that I'm going to fail every day, and it's going to help me get better. and I want to succeed because that's the goal I'm going after. But when I would ask people, I was like, why are you afraid of success? And they're like, because then my family may disown me or they won't accept me or they'll feel like I've left them or we see things like whatever it may be. And so people play small, like you said, which I think is sad because there's so much light that each one of us have and there's so many opportunities that we could create, but we hold ourselves back. in fear of losing people, of outshining people, of their opinions of us. And I think you're right about this fear of rejection and abandonment. Because when we are changing and evolving, our identity shifts, like you said. Yeah.

And it really, it doesn't serve anybody because, yes, you will definitely lose people. I am sure you have lost some people on your journey. Me too. And, and I've kept so many. I mean, then the friends I've gained.

And I've gained new friends. Right.

So hallelujah.

And.

How great. I mean, I never would have met all the new people I met. And I've helped a lot of my friends just by example, raise their own stakes and change their own lives. And I've been able to help them more because I've helped myself and now I can offer them a helping hand up. so staying small really serves nobody.

And what I'm hearing you say is we almost need to be in constant kill mode of our past identity that doesn't support us in the desire we have to become something greater. We're always having to kill something off of a belief or an idea that we've held onto in order to accomplish something. Is that right?

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, so that's it. And it's scary to kill that off.

Because that's so scary. You're used to that makes you feel comfortable.

Yeah, that's the comfort zone. And it's so funny and I think it's so weird that we call it the comfort zone because it's not comfortable. Living in the garage was not comfortable. Being grouchy about the fact that I was right about being broke was not comfortable. It was familiar.

Familiar.

And I think familiarity and family, same this sort of word. And so I think that's really interesting that, you know, the family, the familiar, the familial is very, intertwined. And, you know, we are raised with our first sense of identity is given to us by our families.

Yeah. Wow.

And that's familiar. And so extracting from that is so epic because it's. It's leaving the family, you know?

Oh, gosh. It's like when you want to grow and improve yourself, if your family is not supportive, then. you may be afraid to grow because you want to be safe and connected to your family.

Oh my gosh, and who makes more fun of you or worries about you or drags you down, you know, more than like your family members and your closest friends.

What's the conversation we should have with our family when we're feeling a sense of resistance, when we're feeling make fun, we're feeling picked on, we're feeling why are you doing this? Why are you traveling here or going away or doing whatever you're doing? What do you think is the real conversation we should have? How do we structure that and approach our family in a non-threatening way so that they feel seen, heard and understood as well? Right.

I think it really is as always taking the responsibility and talking about how you feel, not how they should feel or what they should do. and just being like, you know, I am so excited about this. I'm terrified, but it's so important to me. And you mean the world to me. And having your support would be amazing. You know?

Yeah. And what if they say, we don't support this vision of your life? It doesn't fit in with our values and our beliefs. And we think it's wrong, Jen. If you do this, if you do this, You're disrespecting the family and.

We.

Won'T be supporting you financially anymore. You're not welcome in this house anymore.

Then you've made your decision. I'm not gonna live my life. I'm not gonna not be who I truly am because somebody else doesn't approve.

That's tough though when people have to make a choice whether they go live an authentic desire and go after a dream or go after, you know, being in a relationship that people don't approve of, whatever it may be, to risk potentially losing connection with family.

I agree. And it's also really difficult to live an inauthentic life.

Absolutely. And they shrunk and diminish your desires and your dreams and bury them in a graveyard.

Yeah, exactly. And then also to be super resentful of the jerks who said they weren't gonna support you on the first. So then what's that relationship like? Like you're not doing anything that's fun for you because you don't want mom to be mad at you. You and mom are not gonna be getting along that great.

I know. And I think, you know, I think there's this, I'm a big believer that family is very important and it's, you know, one of, if not the most important thing is having great family relationships and dynamics and the importance of it. but when someone is unwilling to support your dreams or at least be open to exploring the possibilities of you going after something and encouraging and supporting, then are they truly the type of person that is caring about you as well? Is it only their fears and insecurities? Right. Yeah. And that's a tricky dynamic.

It's tricky. And so that's why, you know, success is not for weenies. you know, you really, and here's the other thing too though, that I find a lot. When it really is, and especially with family, I mean, I certainly have had my back and forths, but I find that, you know, time is a wonderful thing. And so out of the gate, they may not be on board, but through time and through seeing you blossom and through seeing that they're not losing out on anything, anything and seeing that it actually is better. Give it some time. I think giving people time to grow and wake up is really important. And so in the beginning, I suggest just not sharing your hopes and dreams with the people who aren't going to support you. You know they're not going to, so what's the point?

Yeah. And how do we cultivate healthy boundaries in our lives with partners, family, friends who maybe aren't as supportive as we wish they would be.

Getting clear on what you're available for and what you're not available for. And getting into the specifics of that, you know, like when we speak in vagueness, it doesn't really serve us. So getting very clear, like how much time are you willing to chat on the phone with your friend? How, you know, Just getting into whatever specifics it is with that sort of, you know, if you know you have a bad boundary if there's resentment and passive aggressiveness and, you know, eye rolling-ness or, you know, smothering-ness or whatever, there's so many different kinds of bad boundaries.

Control, yeah.

Yeah, control. And that goes both ways with bad boundaries. You know, sort of figuring out where the itchy scratchy parts of your life are and, That's how you know or you need a boundary set. And so then being clear about time and energy and vocabulary and, you know, how you want to be spoken to, how you want to be treated, how you want to be touched, you know, get clear. Those things all have very specific aspects to them. So getting clear with what you're comfortable with and finding a nice way to articulate them.

Sure. And what would you say is the greatest challenge you're faced with in your life right now, whether it be the. The habit that you. The bad habit you've yet to break or the one you needed to build or the insecurity or challenge you have yet to fully accept, embrace and overcome.

Oh, boy. There's so many to choose from. I feel like right now, one of the biggest is and it's funny, I don't think of it as a challenge. I'm excited to do it, to figure out what I want to do next.

Because you've written, what, three or four big books now?

Six. Yeah. And I'm excited. I mean, my God, thank you. I'm so grateful that I even, it's a quality problem. But just really feeling like what I, getting clear about what I want to put my energy into next, because I really, you know, I've never been, I've never lied about this one, but I don't like to write very much. So I'm like, am I gonna do another book? And so I don't know. I don't know.

It's a lot of work. Writing is, it's a lot of energy and time. I've been working on the research for my book for almost two years, and I'm like, yeah, just sitting down and organizing all the thoughts. It's just, oh my gosh, it takes time and energy, but Yeah, you got to be excited about it, you know?

You got to be excited. And believe me, when you were talking about like remembering the memories of your future self, I was like, with writing, that's the only way I can get through it is, is being like, okay, being on the, on the fun podcast, talking about my new book. Like I totally imagine what comes, because having written is one of the greatest feelings.

Being done and being like, here, print it. Yeah.

Yeah, that's amazing. So that's totally worth it. And, I love my career and I love my tribe of people who buy my books. So that I would never change for the world. But the writing process, I am absolutely one of those super reluctant, like, wait to the last minute drama. None of my friends will answer the phone when I'm writing a book. So yeah, I think figuring out what I want to do next and I'm also not going to worry about it. I just finished my book and we're in a pandemic. So I'm like, I'm going to do puzzles next. That's my big goal.

Play some guitar and hang out with your dog.

Yeah, exactly.

What do you think are three skills that every person should learn to master who are trying to create abundance financially?

Self-awareness.

What does that mean? What does self-awareness mean to you?

Becoming aware of your beliefs, thoughts, and words. Becoming aware, you know, taking responsibility for the stories you're creating. Surrounding yourself with greatness. You know, really putting yourself in situations that are gonna stretch you, hanging out with people who inspire you and challenge you and educate you. Really, your environment is huge. We are so influenced by our environment. And then the last one is consistently scaring the crap out of yourself doing the scary stuff.

That for me has been my life. And I feel like, I'm just taking notes here.

I love that you're talking about this.

I feel like I'm always learning. You gotta learn. and you got to constantly remind yourself, even if I've, you know, learned most of this or know all this already, I've always got to remind myself, yeah, this is why. This is why it's important to do this. Since I was a kid and I dealt with crippling insecurities in many different areas of my life, from the way I looked, from the way I spoke, from my teeth being crooked to having big ears, to being one of the tallest kids in the class to being the, the dumbest kids in the class based on grade card, you know, between not being able to read and write all these challenges that I've built more and more stories on why I was not worthy, not good enough, why girls didn't like me, whatever it is. And when I was a teenager, I started to say, like, I'm sick and tired of feeling, beating myself up constantly and feeling insecure that I started to give myself these challenges. I started to give myself these challenges of, okay, what is my big fear right now that just makes me feel sick in my stomach? And I no longer want to have this feeling. And I would give myself these games and challenges to go all in on them and create an environment of discomfort daily until it became fun. And it's been a journey of, I don't know, 20 years. five years of doing that around many different areas of my life, from salsa dancing to talking to girls, to writing a book, to public speaking, to playing, learning an instrument, you know, to learning a language, like all these things. It's nothing has been like, I feel like I'm going to be good at this. And this is easy. It's all been, this is really scary, and this is really uncomfortable. even just opening up about shame and opening up about sexual trauma from my past, like all these things that I don't want people to know about me. When I finally went all in on my fears, that's when they started to disappear. And that's when I had more belief and confidence and control of my life as opposed to feeling, you know, out of control and having no abilities. So I I think your third Point, consistently scare yourself. is the way towards freedom, towards peace, towards fulfillment, towards love and acceptance with yourself. Right? Because if you haven't overcome this fear or insecurity, then how can you love yourself? I don't know how.

That's a goodie.

I don't know how you can love yourself if you're constantly beating yourself up about insecurity. So you either need to say, okay, I accept this insecurity and this is just I'm at in my life and I'm gonna love myself in spite of the insecurity. Or you've got to say, I don't want to have this anymore, so I gotta do something about it. So either way, you gotta just say, okay, this is where I'm at. I accept it or I'm gonna take action and then overcome it. I don't know. Is there another way that you think?

I just love everything you just said so much. I'm so impressed. I really oh, thanks. Yeah, I am. I mean, to really go for it, you know, and I think, you know, I try to, and also the thing you said about remembering is everything. You know, you and I have been studying this stuff forever. I'm sure most of the people listening have been studying and doing the work. Remembering, it really is just about remembering all this stuff. You know it. Big whoop-de-doo if you don't remember it. who cares? So honestly, you, I just, I love that you keep talking about making it fun, like making it a challenge, making your biggest, most terrifying fear, like flying right in the face of it and making it a game.

Yes.

Just seeing what you can get away with. And that's, you know, that used to be my motto, but I forgot. So I'm really grateful for you for bringing that up and, and, and the fact that you do it over and over and over.

Well, I know you did a lot of emotional intelligence work. I think you did Hoffman Institute. I think I read.

Oh, did you do that?

I didn't do Hoffman, but I did something similar here in Los Angeles that was based on principles of emotional intelligence and had different, you know, screaming exercises and crying and music and screaming games and reenacting and partnering and pairing and all these different things. small group and dyads and everything, and just, you know, being real and vulnerable with a group of people for a number of days and being going through many different visualizations and processes and all these things. It's where I started to open up about the traumas of my past and actually started to heal being sexually abused as a kid when, for 25 years, I wouldn't tell a soul because I was so afraid for someone to know. But what it taught me was another level of making a game in your head around the impossible. I don't know if you guys did this in, in your coaching or experience around this, but we would create these stretches, which was like, okay, you're afraid to do this. Go out and in three hours, go ask someone for a hundred dollars or go ask for a free meal that you would never get a free meal from and enroll people in yourself, in your vision, in something greater than your fears. so that you can prove to yourself you are greater than your insecurity and your fear. And so it's like a game. It's like, I don't know if you remember that paperclip game from back in like Craigslist from like 20 years ago where a guy started with a paperclip, traded his way up to a house. Do you remember this?

I do remember this.

Back in like the 90s or something. Yes, yes. It's like he traded it up from.

A paperclip to a great analogy.

To a quarter and a quarter and he bought this thing. And then it's like you trade up with nothing. You have a paperclip. You can get this on the ground for free. And then he got a house. I think it was another than a year.

Oh my gosh. That is a great analogy.

It's constantly asking unreasonable questions to get what you want.

Who decides what's reasonable? Come on, we're on a ball in infinite space.

We are.

A ball in infinite space. It's insane. I don't know.

I love everything you said. I think one of the reasons I wanted to connect with you for years is because I just think very similar to your thoughts and I appreciate the way you curate your information and experiences so that we can understand it in a more manageable way. So I really want to acknowledge you, Jen, for putting yourself through the pain of writing these books because I know how challenging they are and how much time and energy and insecurity and doubt and questioning and always saying, well, I forgot to put this in there. I know how challenging it is. So, I acknowledge you for showing up even when you didn't think your words might be seen by that many people. Even when it was only a $35,000 advance, even when you thought maybe you'd sell a thousand copies, I acknowledge you for giving your heart your creativity, expressing your challenges and throwing it all in there so that people can relate and see incredible impact and transformation in their life. So, I really acknowledge you, Jen, for everything you've created. You've got a book out, a new book out which people need to check out called Badass Habits: Cultivate the Awareness Boundaries and Daily Upgrades you need to make them stick. Habits something that are foundational towards anyone's success. If you don't have good habits, then you're stuck in bad habits which will not serve you. So get the book, learn from Jen there. I'm a big fan of youf Are a Badass. I want everyone to get that book and every other book. They can go to youoAreABadass.com and also JenSincherro.com to get all your information, all your books, courses, all that stuff, right?

Yeah.

You're also on social media, although I don't know if you're that active sometimes.

On some of the platforms, but you're...

I'm an Instagrammer. Okay, you're more active on Instagram. Jen Cincherro, S-I-N-C-E-R-O over on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook. And yeah, I'm just really grateful we had this time today. I have a couple final questions for you before we wrap up. This is called the Three Truths Question that I ask everyone at the end. of our interviews. And it's a hypothetical question. I would like you to imagine for a moment, it's your last day on earth, many years from now. You've accomplished every dream. You've written 20 other gut-wrenching books that took you a lot of time and energy. You've done whatever you want to do, or you haven't written any more books. You've done whatever you want to do. You've made guitars, whatever it is you want to do, you've done it. And for whatever reason, all of the books, the work, the content you've put out into the world, you've got to take it with you. So no one has access to your words or content or this interview anymore. But you've got a piece of paper and a pen and you get to write down three things you know to be true from your experiences or lessons in life that you would leave with the world. And this is all we have to remember you by of these lessons or what I could call three truths. what would you say, I guess?

Reality is make believe. Oh, I just saw the cheesiest. Okay, I'm gonna. I'm gonna end on a cheese ball. Okay. Reality is make believe. Fear is the best compass towards greatness, and you are a badass.

What do you think is the one? lesson you've yet to learn that you think will support you for the rest of your life?

I think I'm still learning that I'm enough.

Gosh, what do you think will need to happen in order for you to actually detect deception?

Plates must shift again.

You've written, I don't know how many.

More books do I need to write?

You've solved millions and millions copies. You're number one in many categories. You were on the New York Times bestsellers for four years straight, I believe. And what's if someone who hasn't gotten a fraction of that thinking, if she doesn't think she's enough, how am I enough with freaking living in a garage making 20 grand a year, you know? But maybe I'm a cool pop, pop rock band singer, but how do, how Will you finally feel that you are enough? What's going to need to happen?

Ah, if I knew that, man, I would be there right now. I don't know. I tend to think that it's about slowing down and shutting up. And yes, I have to say the pandemic has been so interesting to me for that reason. Just the lack of distractions. I mean, the way I know a lot of people are like, what is she talking about? I've got 10 kids at home and whatever. But for me, it has been about slowing down and shutting up where it's just like there's, you know, I got what I asked for, man. So it's been really, really beautiful in a lot of ways for that reason for me.

That's good. Well, I hope sometime soon you learn that you are enough and we appreciate you and you're loved. You're worthy and you matter. My final question for you is, what is your definition of greatness?

Allowing yourself to be whatever's in your heart, regardless of what anybody else says.

Jen Cinchero, thank you so much. I appreciate it.

Thank you. That was so fun.

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