How to Stop Reacting and Start Winning with Difficult People | Ryan Leak

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I have this mantra of like, don't match the energy, set the standard. My expectations for other people, it's not that they're low, but they're realistic. I expect humanity from others. If I give to you and you take advantage of me, I don't know that you took advantage because I gave it. And once I give it, I truly give it. Some people give with strings attached. I give and now you owe me. Well, then that's not a gift. That's a loan.

Bestselling author, a transformational speaker, and one of the most in-demand leadership consultants on the planet. We have the inspiring Ryan Leak in the house.

Scripture talks about not letting the left hand know what the right hand's doing when it comes to generosity. There is 8 levels of generosity. Really? Each level has a different level of ego attached to it. Sometimes you can give with a smile on your face, but you don't give enough. You need $100. I go, hey, here's $50. But I smile. I got you. The highest level of generosity is actually not giving them money. It's putting them in a position to make money themselves. It's not giving them fish, it's teaching them how to fish.

How do you know if someone in your life aren't willing to learn how to fish for themselves and they're always coming back for more?

You know, for me, I'm always—

You grew up speaking in the church because everything I see you do online is like perfect. Like, you have no mistakes. You're polished, you're put together, and you sound like a preacher on stage communicating to leaders. And I'm curious, did the church ever let you down in your process of growing up that made you realize you had to learn something different than outside of the church?

Yeah, that's a good question. You know, the church was interesting. So I grew up in the African Methodist Episcopal Church, which basically means it was a Black church. If you don't know what that means, like, nobody knows what that means. And so my dad had a stroke when I was in the 5th grade, so he actually lost his church, like, early on in life. Now, I was going to this private school that was connected to this predominantly large white church. So I went from all Black church to all white church in, like, a weekend. And my parents were like, just, you know, go to church with your friends. And so, man, my story would probably be the opposite. Like, the church showed up for my family in a way that I'll never forget.

Not your church though?

No, a different church. Just the church.

Okay.

In fact, here's, here's the coolest part. I've never told this story to anybody. When my dad had a stroke in Rockford, Illinois, the pastor from another church was the first one at the hospital.

Really?

Yeah.

Not his own church?

No, I don't remember anybody from his own church showing up. Maybe they did, right, right. But it was a guy by the name of Sam Mayo. Who showed up at that hospital. Interestingly enough, my dad had a stroke when I was in 5th grade. Then he had another stroke 18 years later in Atlanta. It just so happened that the same guy, Sam Mayo, was also in Atlanta. I fly from Dallas, and as I am walking into the hospital, so is Sam Mayo.

Come on.

18 years later. So my experience with the church has been one that isn't confined to the building. I saw people show up, the power of presence, being there. And so that inspired me as a kid. I saw what it looked like to be the church, not go to church. So I wasn't big on like, hey, did you go to church for Easter? Did you check the box of church attendance? But man, have you shown up for the people in your world? Like, I think church starts on Monday. That has always been my mindset. And so when watching my dad impact people's lives on a Sunday, I would always think, what if we could do this on a Monday? What if we could do this on a Tuesday? What if we could do this on a Wednesday? And so I've always had this like heart for church, but I've always had a mind for business. And so that's where my communication style kind of had a little bit of a mix of both of being able to Garner people's attention, but at the same time give them something that's actually going to add value to the way that they lead, live, motivate them, write books, content on the internet. I'm always— I've always got that interesting dichotomy going on in my brain and how we create content.

Something you talk about a lot of your content, which is really, I think, how to be a more effective communicator and a more effective leader and really understanding human dynamics, which I love that you talk about. I'm curious, what do you think is the first sign that you were living for someone else instead of yourself or your higher purpose?

And I like to say often, God has a plan for your life and so do other people.

It's true. Which one are you going to choose?

Every day you're going to have to make that decision because people will always be pulling you towards their preferences to make them more comfortable with your life. Mm-hmm. And you're going to have to make a decision about who you're going to follow, what's going to be your North Star, what's going to be the thing that helps you make decisions about your life. And you can do it by what other people think about you. That is something that holds people back a lot. What are they going to think about me? But I'm more like, I'm more concerned with what do you think about you? Like, if you don't have a solid view of yourself and where you're going, you will veer to the left or to the right just depending on who you're hanging out with, depending on who left a comment on the post, depending on the coworker that emailed you. Like, you're, you're going to surrender the direction of your life to all of these different directions. You can wake up very confused and probably very sad. So I'm very much like, hey, God's got a plan for your life. And I wouldn't surrender to anybody else's plan.

But how do you know what that plan is? Did you feel like you were distracted by other people's opinions growing up? Like, how did you come to that conclusion?

Man, I would, I would say it's a daily battle for me. You know, people, well-meaning people, family members, good friends. Hey, man, you know what you need to do is— hey, man, you know what you should do? Oh, dude, I gotta, I gotta introduce you to this person. I gotta And you're like, yeah, I mean, I get what you're trying to do, but they can become what I would consider divine distractions. Like, they, they seem good, but that doesn't mean that they are God. And separating the good from the God can be very, very difficult. So I don't think I've ever arrived at that. I think every day I'm going, man, I've, I've got to lay this down and like, I've got to surrender my business and my life and my parenting and my marriage to God every, every single day. So I had a buddy call me the other day. He's like, hey, Ari, so have you thought about a Netflix documentary? And I went, I mean, have I ever thought about it? Sure. But I don't think that's what I'm supposed to do right now. What is that? I would say it's a holy pause, is what I would tell my kids it is. Like, whenever you're trying to figure out a decision, for there to be a holy pause to go, "Lord, is that what I'm supposed to be doing right now?" And I think that sensitivity, that slowness to be able to seek God in everything that you do, to go, "Am I supposed to say yes to this? It looks good. It sounds good. But does that mean that it's God?" Mm.

How do you know?

I have a simple prayer. Lord, give me peace or pause. Lord, give me peace or pause. Have I gotten it wrong? Have I made the wrong decision before? Of course. But I'm always going to try to say, Lord, I hope you see that my heart's in the right place and that I want to do the right thing. So, Lord, would you give me— would you give me peace? Or pause. I don't think that you're always going to know, but I do think you can always try to get it right. It just— you think about marriage, it's like, I'm not always going to say the right thing, but like, hey, you know I love you, you know I'm trying to get it right. And I think that that is— that's more important than actually like trying to be perfect, trying to go, man, am I, am I always making the right decision? No, I'm trying to always make the right decision. And I think in the process, you can live with that.

Yeah.

You know, you can live with the failures on that of just going, hey, I'm trying to get it right. But when I get it wrong, be willing to raise your hand and say, hey, I missed the mark on this one. I should have said no and I said yes. And or I should have said yes and I had said no. But I think you're just always trying to, trying to read the situation.

So when you have an opportunity in front of you or a business idea or a partnership or a gig that someone wants you to do, is that kind of what you do internally? You say, give me peace in saying yes to this, or give me pause if I'm not supposed to do this? Or is that— how does that work internally?

It's, Lord, give me peace or pause about this opportunity. And then I'm looking at the calendar. You and I were talking about this before. Kids and all of it, you know, it's I get booked a year and a half in advance. My kid's basketball schedule comes out a week before the first game.

Yeah, good luck.

And so it's like, he's like, are you gonna be at my game next Friday? I'm like, you mean, I don't know. Like, it is a, like, I've gotta look at all of your games that just came out and then match that with the schedule. And so it's not like it's high school football where you're like, oh, it's every Friday night or whatever. So that definitely goes into it. Then it's also looking at where it's at. You know, we talked about, you know, do I got to go overseas? Do I, you know, how long is the flight? How long am I going to be gone? My wife and I are going to Hawaii in a couple of weeks because I'm speaking out there. Well, then somebody else said, hey, can you come back to Hawaii 2 weeks later and speak for this other group?

And I went, That's an 8-hour flight, you know, it's long.

It's like I never thought in my life— I'm saying, you know, if you would have told me even 4 years ago there will come a day where someone will want to pay you money to come to Hawaii, not just go, pay you money to go, and you'd be like, no, I'm just— I'm not— it's like, what planet are we on? But it's like, I don't—

I did—

I don't have a peace about going to Hawaii. Twice and being away from the kids. And so there's a lot of things that factor into it. So it's a great problem to have, to be in demand, which you're grateful for. But every opportunity that hits my inbox, it's deeper. It's deeper than most people would think.

But how do you learn to say no when abundance is flowing your way? When, oh, I've been busting my butt for 10, 15 years in this speaker journey, on this business journey, on building my name to be known enough to have these opportunities.

Sure.

To create a living for for myself.

Yeah.

And I wasn't always making this money.

Yes.

You know, I was— maybe I was speaking for free when I was younger, and maybe I, you know, I had to really put the reps in.

Yeah.

And now I'm saying no to abundance. How do you feel and navigate that, knowing how to say no to abundance to create a bigger or deeper abundance as well?

It is a daily battle. Daily. But when I tell people that I truly trust God with our business, they— it would blow their mind. So we measure our business by how much we give, not by how much we make.

So to the church or charities or to whatever, everywhere, really.

So we have a donor advisory fund. I'm sure you might be familiar with that. Um, so we, we stack the decks on our DAF and we try to give away as much as we possibly can.

Really?

Every single year. So we have a giving goal, and so that giving goal goes up drastically every single year. Wow. So I have mentors. My very first boss, his wife, they decided they were going to give away her entire salary for a year and just give it away to missions organizations. Uh, my second mentor, he lives off of 49% of their income. Doesn't matter what it is. They've had years where that was multiple millions. They've had years where it was bad and maybe it was only $600 grand, no matter what the number is, they live off of 49%. And I have another mentor who lives out here. He lives off of 9% of his income and gives away—

So he's making money then. He's making—

Well, you'd be surprised. He was giving away 63% of his income before he was a bestselling author and just started raking it in at another— But most people think, Well, you can do that now. It's just like, no, no, no, I was doing that when it was hard and it might look easy now, but it's not. So, so for us, it's not necessarily an exact percentage, but it's a lot.

But you have a goal every year like we did this, this last year.

Yeah.

What would it take to be able to give this much?

I cannot tell you. I've got a private group chat where they're kind of in like a little mini mastermind with me. And they say, okay, so what's the secret sauce for Ryan Leak? We're in your mastermind.

Give more.

Give more. They're like, no, no, no, but gimme, gimme the marketing tips. Give more. They're like, but, but, well, like, come on, social media too. I'm like, yeah, it's like, it's all about giving, giving value. Give, like we talked about, like your event before this, it's just like the event wasn't making money because it was, It was just tons of giving value. And so that heart of generosity isn't like pat on the back. The heart of generosity makes me show up to an event to go, hey, how, how can I serve you guys? Yeah, I'm not just here because you paid me. I'm here because I'm here to add value. So this is your event. It's not Ryan's event. This is, this is Capital One's event. This is whoever's event. Like, I'm here to serve you. And so Hey, what can my team do for your leaders? Hey, we're gonna create a post-event playbook for every single leader. Well, how much is that? It's free. You already paid me. Like, you're just gonna give it away? It's like, yeah, well, that's what we're trying to do. So generosity permeates everything that we do. So you'd be surprised how many times we have, I mean, as of yesterday, and I, and I, again, I'm not like a prosperity gospel person, but I have every single time that we have given big, we do not give to get, but every single time we've given big, I get like 4 or 5 contracts in my email, like nearly within 24 hours.

Related to the people that are around the giving, or just somehow that comes to you?

It has nothing to do really with anything.

Wow.

Nothing. I mean, I, without giving numbers, I could, I could, I could show you screenshots on my phone that would absolutely blow your mind. So because of that, when people go, man, it's like, man, the last 2 years, man, your stuff is like taking off, I'm like, our giving is taking off. It's not what it is. Again, like, did we get better at shooting video? Yes.

Yeah, yeah.

Did we do— did we do some of those things? Yes.

And all this? Yeah.

But man, I— so many things are outside of my control. And so part of like this idea of abundance of our giving has drastically gone up and so has our income.

Do you think if you weren't giving let's say you were giving in whatever, a few percent a year. You were generous here and there, you know, $20 to church or whatever, you know, you're giving something every time, but you're not giving at the next level. Do you think you'd be making as much as you are right now? If you could put in the same reps, the same energy, same effort, same talent, same charisma, same dedication to mastering your craft and showing up and being a great leader, but you weren't financially giving to the levels you're giving, would you be earning as much?

I don't think so. Personally, I don't think so. I think I would be doing fine. Yeah. I think I would be doing okay. I wouldn't say it's this way or the highway. I wouldn't take it that far. I mean, we know plenty of people who are making great money who aren't giving. So, but for us, for the things that have come our way, I could, I could show you 50 emails that you would go, no way. There's— that makes no sense. There's, there's, there's no way that you gave that on Tuesday and on Wednesday this person called, like, and that has nothing. The amount of times it's happened, it's comical. Like, we have an entire group chat that they go, again? Again? How? That's insane. It's like It's kind of insane, but it's, when I say I trust God, dude, I really do. Like it's not something that it's a cute phrase or a verse that you just put on your refrigerator. For us, I don't know any other way to build a business personally. Other people have done great, built great businesses, not trusting God, it's fine. For me, I know for a fact I would not be where I'm at without, without trusting God with our business completely.

How do you trust in God when people disappoint you? Yeah, people let you down. People take advantage of your generosity. They know you're a big giver.

Sure.

Hey, let's find a way for Ryan to give us some money. But then we don't follow through on our promises. We take advantage. We do some things that maybe were out of alignment.

Yeah.

How do you navigate that in your heart?

Mel Robbins, let them. I mean, like, like, for me, I, I have this mantra of like, don't match the energy, set the standard. My expectations for other people, it's not that they're low, but they're realistic. I expect humanity from others.

So do you get let down when people show you who they are or they don't match your energy or your standard?

No.

Really? You don't get let down?

Part of it is, is, you know, so I had this book come out last year and the pub date got moved, I think 6 times. Okay. Each time the team would be like, you mad? I'd say, no, I was expecting it. What do you mean you were expecting it? I said, well, I just looking at all of the moving parts of what's happening with this book. It doesn't seem like it's gonna be ready by the date. And so I set an expectation that it's probably gonna come out 6 months later than what I had originally intended. It was actually 8 months. So when the publisher and the editors and, hey Ryan, sorry, we got a delay. I know this is upsetting. I'm like, I'm okay. It's actually not upsetting. Well, you're not upset? Like, it's not that I'm impervious to getting angry. Trust me, I get angry. Ask my son. But It's, it's one of those things where you just kind of go, at the end of my life, I will be held accountable for my part. I won't be held accountable for your part. And so if I give to you and you take advantage of me, I don't know that you took advantage because I gave it. And once I give it, I truly give it. Some people give with strings attached. I give and now you owe me. Well, then that's not a gift. That's a loan. Giving is saying, it's yours. Whatever it is that you want to do with this.

What if someone—

It's yours.

Then speaks badly about you, talks nasty behind your back, lets you down, breaks their promises, and you've given them a big amount of money, time, energy, resources, you've shown up for them, and then they treat you this way. How do you— That doesn't make you angry at all? There's got to be a little bit of like, man, I really showed up for this person.

That's a good question.

I just gave him $100 grand for free. And now they just ran all over me and it's—

Yeah.

There's gotta be some anger inside of you.

Yeah, you know, that happens.

Or you're just like, and when that happens, it's like, I'll just keep giving to them. Do you have boundaries once someone—

Yeah, yeah, you're not gonna keep getting the check, man. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. So there is a, you know, part of it is there was somebody we gave to who we, you know, we found out was a fraud. Totally.

Okay. Like you got duped or you got, you know.

I wouldn't say I got duped, but I would say they certainly are not the person people think that they are. And we found out in some very interesting ways that this person was not who they said that they were. This person does not know that I know that they are not who they say they are.

Still today?

To this day.

Oh, wow.

Yeah. They could be watching this.

And think they're the best in the world. That's my guy.

Great job, man.

I'm thinking about you. Hey, buddy. Watch yourself.

But at the same time, it's like, Hey, I'm sad for you, man. I'm really, really sad for you. You will not get another dollar from us, but I am— I'm sad that you can't be who you really are. So I'm not mad at you. I'm sad for you. And so for me, it doesn't deter me from wanting to give more and more and more to other people.

Really?

No, I, again, at the end of the day, I'm going to be held accountable for how God trusted me with his resources. And so if somebody else— I did what I felt like I was supposed to do. My wife and I talk about this all the time. I'm like, hey, is there somebody we're supposed to give to? If it's through our DAF, great. If it's a person, great. Hey, if it's a friend, hey, great. We try to be what we would call obedient to God in it. And if we're obedient to God in it, what that other person does is up to them. Hoss.

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I have so much on my plate. If I'm sitting around thinking about what this— it's like, nah, I'm going to be distracted from the room that I'm actually in because I'm thinking about this other person. I wouldn't say it's not that I don't get angry when I think about that person or that transaction, if you will. But again, I have been on the receiving end of people who gave with strings attached and I'm like, you didn't, then you didn't give it.

Unless it was like, okay, there's a, I'm going to deliver something. You're going to, it's a business deal. I'm going to speak on stage. You're giving me a check. To deliver a service because we have an agreement, that's different.

Totally.

This is not, hey, I'm just gonna give you 5 grand to help you out, but then later, oh, you owe me the, you know, or something else.

Or, you know, something happens to you, you're like, hey Ryan, I need to borrow 100 grand. I say, hey Max, I'm gonna give you 100 grand. If I bring that up over dinner 2 years later, then I didn't give it. Mm-hmm.

It's, it's not even like, unless there was an agreement, you're gonna pay this back.

Yeah. Something. Yeah.

There has to be an agreement.

But I just, the giving, I grew up around some generous people.

What did that, what's this generous mean?

They were generous, but they always brought it up. They always hung it over my head. I always buy dinner. Well, then stop buying dinner.

Right.

It's like if you're going to bring it up, then it's not generous anymore. Does that make sense? There is a string attached. And so for my wife and I, when we give, we really try to like walk away. It's yours. And now I'm not like watching you. It's like, no, it's— if God told us to give it, then we have to let it go. And so I just— I never want to give and be looking over somebody's shoulder.

How do you know when to give or who to give to?

Yeah. So for us, we have several, and being a speaker is kind of nice 'cause you get to meet so many different kinds of people doing all sorts of different things. And, you know, if it's a cause, you know, there's somebody on our team, she helps raise money for single moms. And I was like, that's so awesome. And she had just joined our team. And so I just, I looked at my wife, I said, hey, what do you think about this organization? Hey, could you send me the website? We send the website and we just, We just give. Scripture talks about not letting the left hand know what the right hand's doing when it comes to generosity. Like the more you are involved in it, the more your ego can get involved. In fact, in Jewish culture, we're getting deep into generosity, there was 8 levels of generosity.

Really?

Yeah, 8 levels. The first level was where you give, but you give with a grudge.

Begrudgingly. Yeah.

I mean, yeah, you can have it. Yeah.

Frustrated.

Yeah. But it goes all the way to each level has a different level of ego attached to it. Sometimes you can give with a smile on your face, but you don't give enough. You need $100, I go, hey, here's $50. But I smile, I got you. But then there were actually like rabbis that would walk around towns and they would keep coins on the back of their robes. So people would, the poor could actually grab money off of their robes, but they didn't actually know who it was. They kept moving.

Wow, interesting.

And then there were other times, different levels of generosity where they would actually put coins in poor people's like mailboxes back then, if you will. So they knew who the receiver was, but the receiver didn't know.

Interesting.

So you don't know that it's me. Then there's like anonymous giving. It's like, you know, so we like to do anonymous giving where our friends get to Puerto Rico, like, man, you won't believe what happened. I'm like, I do believe what happened, you know, but it's like the more you're involved, the more ego that is there. The highest level of generosity is actually not giving them money, it's putting them in a position to make money themselves. That's the highest level of generosity, is not giving them fish, it's teaching them how to fish.

Sometimes people don't want to learn how to fish. No, they say they want to, but really the work and time and energy that it takes to invest in generating fish, generating money.

Totally.

They want the easy relief now.

Yes.

That's the hard thing though. It's like, how do you know if someone in your life or people aren't willing to learn how to fish for themselves and they're always coming back for more? How do you navigate that from being an enabler to someone who's empowering?

Totally. You know, for me, I'm always— I mean, again, it goes back to peace or pause. There's people that we've given to on one month and then the next month they ask, we just say, hey, no, not this time. And that's just peace or pause for us. Sometimes I'll tell a friend, you don't need my money, you need my mind. If I gave you an hour of my time, the money you're asking for, you're asking the wrong question to the wrong person. If you have somebody like my phone number and attention, you should be asking me for 30 minutes. Not this, does that make sense?

But that goes back to them, even if they took it, they may not act on it. You know what I mean? They may not act on the wisdom. They have to be ready for that. You know, they have to want it and seek it out.

That's what my friend calls an asshole. An asshole is somebody that asks the same questions over and over again.

Doesn't.

But doesn't do anything about it. Yeah, I got some assholes in my life.

Yeah, sure.

But man, I just— I think where my posture towards humanity and other people, the chill nature of that, I think comes from the fact that, man, so many people in my life gave me a shot when they shouldn't have. Ew. They gave me a pass. And so it's hard for me to hold people to the letter of the law. It's not that I don't get mad or I don't get bothered. It's just that I know that there was somebody that should have been mad at me and wasn't and talked to me in a tone that was respectful and showed me a lot of grace. So it's hard for me to hold people to the letter of the law when I've been given so much that I could just— I could go on forever telling you stories about like when my dad had a stroke. I was at that private school. We were getting ready to leave that private school because we couldn't afford to be there anymore. And there was a freshman English teacher named Mrs. Holstead who came to my mom and she says, "Hey, me and my husband see your boys' potential. We'll pay for their tuition." Wow. So again, it's like they didn't know me. They're just rolling the dice. And I actually talked to Mrs. Holstead about a month ago. Unbelievable. Unbelievable conversation.

What happened?

Well, because she's just— I said, hey, I don't know if you know this, but I talk about you a lot in corporate America, all over the world, you know. She's like, you do? I'm like, yeah, I'm thinking you should be a little bit more excited that I'm like, you know, telling the story about you. And she's like, yeah, you know, Ryan, that was just me being faithful to what God asked me.

Wow.

Like, it's not like a show for her. And I said, where does 'Where does your spirit of generosity come from?' She said, 'In this world, there are givers and takers. My mom was a taker and my dad was a giver.' And she said, 'I love my mom, but I wanted to be like my dad.' Oh. And so, not super wealthy, but very, very generous. And there's a massive difference. So, so, man, I, I could, that I could go on and on of so many people in my life that just helped me stay in college. I didn't have a scholarship at a D3 school.

No scholarship coming in, man.

Yeah. So it's so, so many people helped me out along the journey when I wasn't who I am today. You know, they were just looking at potential. And so sometimes I want to hold people to the letter of the law and go, why won't you just get your act together? Why won't you just listen to me? Why won't you just take my advice? If you would just listen to me, your life would be so much better. But it's like, dude, I've been hard-headed. I've not listened before. I've received advice that I didn't practice, and yet people didn't cut me off. They stayed in relationship with me. And so for me, I wouldn't say it's easy, but when you've been given a lot of grace, it's hard to withhold it from other people.

But there's a lot of difficult people out there. There's a lot of difficult people out there. And you talk about this in your book.

So many.

And I'm curious, I think most people aren't clear on what they're supposed to do with difficult people. Maybe they've tried a lot of different strategies. Yeah, maybe they've tried to avoid them or confront them or just power through. But what are people actually doing wrong when dealing with difficult people?

Well, number one, I think people are reacting to difficult people. All of us are at our worst when we're reacting, every single one of us. I don't know one great reactor. I don't know anybody that's like, you know what, I'm really good when I'm reacting, like Who has good reacting skills? Who's writing a book on how to react well? It's like, you know, you're reacting. And so if you're reacting, you're never going to be the kind of person you actually wanna be. And so what we talk about in, in books and in seminars and in keynotes is like, you, you've gotta be a proactive person, which means you have to prepare for difficult people ahead of time. What's funny about people that are navigating difficult individuals is they're always surprised by them. Always. In fact, in our research, we kept hearing this phrase over and over again. I can't believe— I— can you believe they said this? Can you believe they left this comment? Can you believe they hit reply all? Can you believe that they would say that in front of my boss? Can you believe they would bring up my past? Can you believe that they ghosted me? I can't believe, I can't believe, I can't believe. And we're like, I actually think you should believe them. Like, you've known this person for a very, very long time and you're letting this person catch you off guard. And you're reacting. Be proactive. Proactive means you're going, all right, if I've known this person for a long time, history tells me that Monday they could act a fool.

Yeah.

And historically, my plan has been when they act a fool, I act foolisher.

Okay, I act more of a fool even more.

You know, it's like, so I'm gonna match act a fool for act a fool. It's like, well, that's not a good plan. And so So if you know this person has Act a Fool potential on a Monday morning, why don't you on Monday morning go, you know what, what if I prepared for Act a Fool? What if I called Act a Fool on the way to work and said, hey, can I get you a cup of coffee? What do you mean? Hey, I'm pulling in Starbucks. Can I get you a cup of coffee? I knew you were going to have an attitude. But I'm prepared for it, but I'm not going to let your bad attitude create a bad attitude in me. In the process of working with people that we don't like, we can become people we don't like. And that's what this book is all about. It's about going— everybody wants me to come in and go, "So can you fix them for me?" I'm like, "Yeah, but I can't work on them until we talk about us." Like, because this is what you can actually control. And so if I can prepare for complicated people, if I can prepare for difficult people, well, my energy's different walking in the room because I'm actually expecting it. So a lot of it comes down to expectations and that are often unspoken. I, I would, I don't know what the data is, but I would say most of our expectations are unspoken. For humanity around us. And when somebody doesn't live up to the expectations that we have internally—

that we think others are going to be like us, right? Which most people aren't.

They aren't. And which would be a terrible world if everybody else is just like us. But that's what most people's plan is though. Like, whenever they get a difficult person, they go, if I can just change them, especially marriage, if I could just get in there and and change it. It's like, yeah, but that quietly communicates to the world around us that the world would be a better place if everybody else was just like us. That's just not true. So if that's the case, then I think we have to be the kinds of people who step back and just go, all right, how can I prepare for this? Knowing that this person is coming, knowing that this person is coming over for Thanksgiving, knowing that I'm going to be in a meeting with them on a Tuesday, knowing that I'm going to see them on Friday night, knowing that they're going to try and sit next to me at my kid's soccer game. It's like We just act so surprised. And so we just try to help people to go, stop being surprised. They're coming. They have packed their bags. It's on a flight. It's coming. The question is, how are you going to show up when they do? Don't react. Be proactive.

But what if you can't? You don't— you weren't expecting it. Let's say you weren't proactive. You didn't know they were going to show up and they showed up unexpectedly.

Sure.

You know, it's some new person that shows up that you weren't even aware of and they show up in a way that's causing chaos in your inner world or your environment. How do you prepare for the unexpected?

Some people will literally trigger your nervous system. It's a thing.

Yes. Do you get triggered?

Yes.

Your nervous system get triggered?

I mean, I don't know if I would go that deep, but it could.

I mean, you seem like a pretty relaxed, calm guy.

For the most part. For the most part.

But how do you handle it when your nervous system gets triggered then?

Literally, I have to have a conversation with God. Internally to go, okay, I know I want to react right now, but let me try to think about what's going on with this person that I cannot see. So I believe that every difficult person that you deal with has a difficult behind the scenes that they've not told you about. And if you could see that you would understand the behavior and the words that are coming out of their mouth that most of the time don't have anything to do with you at all. And so if my kid has an outburst, if a colleague is saying something just wild, I have to go, you— hey, are you okay? Hey, what? Something feels off. And then I try to move towards the mess and have a real conversation to say, hey, there's a— because we can talk about what you just said, but I think we would be missing the forest for the trees if we went there. So it seems like there's something underneath the surface that's happening here. Can we talk? Can we, can we dial it down just a little bit? Part of it is being the adult in the room. Also, when I say expect complicated, I also have a job where I go to a place every couple of days where the angriest people in the world go every single day, the airport. Okay, listen, people be mad all the time, like, and they be getting mad at stuff that's completely outside of their control. They're mad at the airlines, they're mad at gate agents, they're mad at TSA.

Yeah.

I have just, I just started going, you know what, there could be delays. And if there is, well then I guess I'm just gonna have a good day at the airport.

Yeah.

It's, I've made up my mind. I call it pre-decisions. I think you need to make good decisions. I think you need to make better pre-decisions. Pre-decision is saying, hey, I've already decided what kind of week I'm gonna have. I've already decided what kind of day I'm gonna have. I've already decided how I'm going to show up to that. I've already decided I'm going to show up to that lunch. I have— that decision is already made. I have already made a decision to forgive people in the future who have yet to hurt me.

Wow.

I've already made that decision so that when it comes, I'm not like, oh, well, what should I do? Uh, not sure. It's like, no, I already made this decision that I'm going to be a forgiving person. I've already made that decision. And so if I've already made that decision, you could say something crazy today and it doesn't mean it doesn't hurt my feelings, but I've already made a decision that says, you know what, I don't know everything that's going on in Lewis Howes's day, but perhaps something happened to him that would make him say something to me and I can't see it all. And all I know is this, is if I said something crazy to Lewis, what would I want him to do for me? I would want him to forgive. So in light of that, I'm gonna let it go. And the other alternative is this: I can get angry, hold on to bitterness, and carry that to the airport. Why would I do that if I have a choice? Which I believe people have choices.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's so— I'm always like, man, they're like, choose joy. What do you mean choose joy? I'm like, okay, you tell me your choice. Choose bitterness, choose anger. You want a heart? Like, if we get to make choices and peace is on the table, joy is on the table, I'm grabbing peace. What are you gonna grab? And so, but it is, I've made a decision about my future. And so it allows me to enter into spaces that can be toxic, that could be chaotic, and I don't have to become chaotic in the midst of chaos. I've made a decision. I can't tell you how many times an event planner is freaking out. Oh my gosh. Hey, how are you? She's like, you just have such a calming presence. I go, I know, but I've been expecting you all month.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I knew you were coming, so I pre-decided that I wasn't going to freak out with you because I knew you're going to freak out. So somewhere in your world, you can't always get it perfect. But again, when you, when you've made several pre-decisions about how you're going to show up in a room, another pre-decision, completely different. I've pre-decided that I won't walk in a room and prove myself to anybody. Pre-decision.

And prove yourself.

Prove myself.

What does that look like?

Because, man, I think—

What does that not look like, I guess?

And that used to be like my whole internal world was I gotta impress you. I gotta impress people. Trying to build a brand. You're a speaker. You're like, you gotta prove yourself. And one day I just made a decision that says, actually, I don't have to do that. And it was so freeing. Wow. It was, oh, it was so freeing. And here's what's crazy is when I stop trying to prove myself, you make a much better impression because you're just way calmer. You're just, you're just you. You're way more yourself than when you're trying to like prove something to, to somebody.

So tax and bonus season is one of those sneaky little moments. You check your account, you see a refund or a bonus, and for about 10 seconds You feel rich, like, ooh, maybe I'll go buy some expensive gift for myself. Then reality kicks in. But here is the thing. That moment right there is actually kind of powerful for us. For most of us, extra money hits the account and suddenly it already has plans because something needs to be fixed, something needs paid for, or something you've wanted for forever is calling your name. There's no shame in this. Life is full. Things break, plans pop up. But what if just for a minute you paused, like just for a second, not because you have to, but because you want to ask a better question. Not what can I buy right now, but what would actually feel good about this later? And instead of the moment running you, you make an intentional move, not a big dramatic one, just a simple decision that leaves you feeling a little more steady and a little more in control, specifically with your money. And if you get a tax refund or a bonus, try asking a different question. Not what can I buy today, but how can I give my bonus a bonus? Or how can I turn my tax refund into more funds? It's a small shift, but it changes the energy and suddenly it isn't just extra cash. It's an opportunity. One simple, intentional decision can help you feel a little bit more in control, a little more steady. And honestly, that feels better than an impulse purchase you forget about in 2 weeks. And that's why I like how U.S. Bank approaches tax and bonus season. They know these moments matter. U.S. Bank Smart Lease Savings is designed for people who want flexibility while earning competitive promotional rates. And if you are in a place where you do not need immediate access to that money, U.S. Bank CD Specials let you lock in a guaranteed rate for a set period of time. It's so simple, it's straightforward, and it's about saving your way. Growing your money without overcomplicating it. U.S. Bank can be a trusted partner when you decide to be a little more intentional with a financial boost. Visit usbank.com/savings to get started. Savings rates vary based on the presence of an additional eligible product and combined qualifying balances. CD rates vary by term and location. Member FDIC. Spring is the season for closet cleanouts. It's the perfect time to narrow down your wardrobe to pieces that are well-made and easy to wear all the time. And that's where Quince comes in. With Quince, you get fabrics that feel elevated and pricing that actually makes sense. They work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middlemen, so you're paying for quality, not brand markup. Everything is designed to last and make getting dressed easy. And it's not just their clothing. They have great bedding options too. And Martha and I actually have their European linen duvet cover set, and it's so soft and comfortable. We love it. Highly recommend doing a little spring cleaning and upgrading a few things you use every day. Just start small and keep it simple. Refresh your wardrobe with Quince. Go to quince.com/lewis for free shipping and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada too. Go to quince.com/lewis for free shipping and 365-day returns. Quince.com/lewis. Where did that come from? The need to prove yourself in life?

Culture. I mean, wanting to be successful. Growing up broke, you know, it's— this is the way of the world. This is just how it works. And you— first impressions are everything. Everything that you hear, you know, as an adolescent and in college, you know, you've gotta— you've gotta make a good impression. I mean, in fact, like, I still do interviews, as weird as that sounds, for gigs. Like, I still get interviewed for jobs. All the time.

Where they're like, hey, we're interested in you speaking here, but we wanted to get on a call first.

Yes. And I lose it all the time. Really? All the time. They're like, he's not our guy.

Oh, wow.

Like, I still live in that. Like, even as successful as I am now, it's like I still can feel that pressure of like, I gotta do this song and dance for you. And, huh, and sometimes I'll just give a vibe like, actually, I don't, I don't sing, or, and I don't dance.

And so if you want me to take me, great.

If, yeah, and, and sometimes, but I used to be like, oh my gosh, what do you want me to do? Just tell me. And, and you want me to sing? Okay, so I'll sing. Or you want me to tap dance? And then one day I'm like, I'm exhausted trying to be everything for everybody else. And so again, I just, I just I just made a pre-decision that says, hey, I'm happy to share with you what I can do to add value to your organization, but I don't have the posture of, oh, I gotta prove it.

But how old were you when that started to like transform from proving to being at peace with who you were?

All right, so I'm 39 right now. When did that happen? 38?

6 months ago.

39. I mean, now? Wow. I mean, it's— I did. I'm always a work in progress. You know, there is a— there's a lot that can be thrown at you, especially you throw a lot of money into the mix and you can feel the like, paying you a lot of money, you know, the amount of times somebody has told me, hey, you're very expensive. And, you know, I signed the contract and the CEO doesn't know it, so. No pressure. I'm right. You're like, uh, well, I didn't tell you to do that. Yeah, it's like, but now it's like there's pressure. So it, there's, it's taken a lot of inner God dialogue to get to a place where I just show up and kind of say, hey, I'm gonna, I'm gonna give my best. And, and I think this is going to go well. I think I'm pretty good at what I do. I've put in the hours. I love my craft. I work on my craft every single day. I lock in for every single client I have. Um, sometimes you miss.

Sometimes you miss, man. That's why we didn't go D1, you know what I'm saying?

Right?

I feel like there's a lot of lies that people tell themselves. You're around people all the time, from the corporate world to sports to everyday people.

Yes.

What do you think is the biggest lie people believe?

The biggest lie people believe starts with "I can't." They have more "I can'ts" than they have "I cans." And so those "I can'ts" really can steer people's lives a lot. And I think that's a big lie that people believe, that they will always fall short of their potential because of their "I can'ts." And we could fill in the blank on what the "I can't" is, you know? I think another big lie that I see with a lot of people is they have this, like, "If it's never been done before, then how could it ever be possible with me?" I mean, how many people have sat on this very podcast that were the first? Yeah, for sure. So most people believe that they have to be second. It's a big lie. It's never been done before. Most people want tried and true, but for something to be tried and true, somebody's got to try.

That's right, man.

So that's, that's actually that. That's why they pay me the big bucks. Yeah, because I'm there to get you to try. I'm there to get— no, you go first. No, no, we're gonna wait for somebody else to jump in the pool. I'm like, somebody's got to test the pool. Why not you? Why not me?

What's the biggest lie you believe about yourself right now?

Biggest lie that I believe about myself right now is that, that I'm just a speaker. That, that is the, that's the only value that I bring to the world is, is with a microphone.

What is the, on the other side of that lie?

I don't know. Working through that one. I don't know. I mean, it's like you spend so much of your career trying to be good at this thing.

Uh-huh.

And then you get good enough, if you will. And then one day you wake up and you go, am I supposed to be doing more than this? Uh-huh. Less than this? More or less?

Something different?

Something— yeah, you know, and then you, you get the everybody's got a plan for your life, so does God sort of thing. And then Yeah. So you can, you can believe a lot of lies in there of just you are the only value you're bringing is, is what you can do on a stage or what you can do for somebody's phone on social media. You know, you can easily fall for the trap of believing like those things are your identity. So, so for me, I think it's, it's a daily fight to go, I'm not, I'm not only what you see on your phone. I'm not only what you see on a stage. And so, yes, I think trying to answer that question of like, who are you and what do you bring to the world is an interesting dance for sure.

What was the biggest limiting belief you had growing up that you had to overcome?

Man, there's probably so many narratives around race. Really? Oh yeah. Just being Black and what that means and what, you know, you hear so many things about what it means to be a Black man in America. And most days I'm just like, I'm just emailing like crazy. And it's not like I don't sign my email Ryan Link, the Black guy. You know, you're like, it's Ryan Link, like, let's go, let's move on to the next thing. And so then it's like, Well, as a— and again, sometimes it's like a limiting belief that is partially true in some ways. And so I spoke for, um, a Fortune 100 company. I was the first Black speaker that they've ever had for their executive retreat. And there is one Black guy on their board, and he told me— he came to me after and he goes, He goes, no, it can't even be before yours. You're the first Black guy, don't be the last.

Oh my gosh. All right, before the speech, no pressure.

Yeah. And then he goes— and then I finished and he goes, because you were first, you won't be the last. He goes, you crushed it. He goes, you are the perfect first. And I'm like, thanks. You know, it's like, I don't— you don't really know what— like, are you limiting what I can do from your vantage point? Because I don't plan on limiting myself. And so that's good. I think another limiting belief that permeates every day is that, so it's kind of, it's different. So I do 120 events a year. 100 of those events are corporate America events all over the place. And then 20 of those are in megachurches. And so what I have been told is that you can't do both. You have to pick one. You either have to pick a pastoral life or you have to pick a keynote speaker life, but you cannot really mix the two. You cannot speak in churches and speak at these top companies. You can't do that on your social media. I've been told by plenty of people, you have to stop posting faith content. You can't do that.

So it's almost like the religious people have limited you. Those are the ones in the setting have kind of said, hey, you got to kind of pick and choose. Or is it the corporate people have said that?

Both.

Really?

Both sides. Both sides have said— I've heard it from both sides.

But the court people keep booking you the more, and you're doing it.

Well, now—

They're not holding you back.

Yes. But even when I first got in, it was like, hey dude, you gotta delete your faith stuff. Literally was told that. Other speakers right now would be like, how is Ryan getting away with that? Because the mantra is, if you continue to talk about your faith this much, corporate America won't trust you because they'll think you're coming in to preach, or I don't know what they think is going to convert to something, right? But it's only— it's only grown the more that I— so, so yeah, some people will put that limiting belief on you of going, if you're going to be effective in the church, then you can't be effective in business. And it's like, or you could just do a good job in both. It's kind of my mind.

Exactly, blend the two. Because it sounds like you're— you've learned now how to not be a people pleaser. Yeah, that's what I'm hearing you say in the last 6 months. Yeah, no, literally, because you've had to figure out, okay, I want to make corporate people happy and faith-based people happy and make sure I'm not doing the wrong things. But it sounds like you're just being you.

Yeah.

Do you think someone can truly reach their potential if they're being a people pleaser to others?

No, absolutely not. I think that if you do the hard work of being yourself, which is a lot of work, man.

Or it could be the easy work. Just be yourself and stop pleasing everyone else. Either how you look at it, you know. It's hard for me. It's been hard for me for a long time. But the more you practice it and you're just like, oh, I'm just going to be me and I have my 5 core friends around me and I don't need everyone else to like me. Hopefully they respect me or they like me, but I don't need to care what they think about me.

Yeah.

Because I have my wife and my kids and my 5 friends that I play pickleball with, you know, whatever. It's like, you know, I'm good. But it's so— I grew up where it was so hard where I wanted everyone to like me, right?

Yes.

I didn't want people to not like me.

Yes.

That was based on wounds and traumas and different things that I learned how to heal. But yeah, and it, it was exhausting. Trying to get everyone to be okay with who I was and then shape-shifting or changing to please someone else or, you know, the song and dance.

Yeah, it was exhausting. Oh yeah.

And it's like, I can only imagine what I could have done with the energy I had that I lost by trying to please other people.

Yeah, it's— I think sometimes, you know, I mean, you're, you're a high performer you have a lot going on, you know, it's, it's your, what I would call not normal. And then you have people in your world who would really benefit from you being normal.

Oh yeah.

Like, just come to the barbecue.

They'd feel more comfortable.

Like they would. And so that like, what do you mean you can't come? You're like, well, I don't know if you know, I got a commitment over here.

I got this dream. I got this thing. Yeah.

Yeah. I kind of got this Olympic thing going on. I don't know if you've been paying attention. It's like, you are? You're doing like, you're trying to make it Olympic? Yeah, a little bit. Yeah, I got it.

It's time.

Yeah, it's like I got rehab, I got work to do. And so not everybody's gonna understand that. And so that is the piece, especially over the last 3 years for me, where people did, I had to get really okay using a phrase with acquaintances that they were very uncomfortable with because there are people who we were acquaintances in, I don't know, 2015. I don't know, maybe we played basketball together. Yeah. And then they see whatever proverbial success they believe I have now, they'll be like telling their friends, yeah, yeah, Ryan's my boy, we're friends. And then they kind of like want to cash in on our friendship or whatnot. And I've just, I've just, I've had to say this to a few people over the last year. I said, hey, I love you, but we're not friends.

Tax and bonus season is one of those sneaky little moments. You check your account, you see a refund or a bonus, and for about 10 seconds you feel rich. Like, ooh, maybe I'll go buy some expensive gift for myself. Then reality kicks in. But here is the thing, that moment right there is actually kind of powerful for us. For most of us, extra money hits the account and suddenly it already has plans because something needs to be fixed, something needs paid for, or something you've wanted for forever is calling your name. There's no shame in this. Life is full, things break, plans pop up. But what if just for a minute you paused, like just for a second, Not because you have to, but because you want to ask a better question. Not, what can I buy right now? But what would actually feel good about this later? And instead of the moment running you, you make an intentional move, not a big dramatic one, just a simple decision that leaves you feeling a little more steady and a little more in control, specifically with your money. And if you get a tax refund or a bonus, try asking a different question. Not what can I buy today, but how can I give my bonus a bonus? Or how can I turn my tax refund into more funds? It's a small shift, but it changes the energy and suddenly it isn't just extra cash. It's an opportunity. One simple, intentional decision can help you feel a little bit more in control, a little more steady, and honestly, That feels better than an impulse purchase you forget about in 2 weeks. And that's why I like how U.S. Bank approaches tax and bonus season. They know these moments matter. U.S. Bank Smart Lease Savings is designed for people who want flexibility while earning competitive promotional rates. And if you are in a place where you do not need immediate access to that money, U.S. Bank CD Specials let you lock in a guaranteed rate for a set period of time. It's so simple, it's straightforward, and it's about saving your way. Growing your money without overcomplicating it. US Bank can be a trusted partner when you decide to be a little more intentional with a financial boost. Visit usbank.com/savings to get started. Savings rates vary based on the presence of an additional eligible product and combined qualifying balances. CD rates vary by term and location. Member FDIC. Running a small business is tough, and when it comes time to get a loan, it can feel almost impossible to find someone you actually trust. Big banks say no, and online it's a mix of offers that feel unclear with rates and terms that are hard to navigate. That kind of uncertainty can slow your momentum. Whether you need help covering payroll, managing cash flow, or investing in growth, You deserve better options. If you're in the small business marketplace, you need Fundera powered by NerdWallet. It's a free, easy-to-use platform where you can compare real financing offers from trusted lenders all in one place. No perfect credit needed, no spam, just options that fit your business. And here's the best part. For a limited time, when you visit nerdwallet.com/greatness and fill out the no obligation form, you'll get VIP treatment and talk with a real person who knows all the ins and outs of small business lending. Don't risk your business on unreliable lenders. Go to nerdwallet.com/greatness. Greatness to find the funding you deserve. Fundera Inc., NMLS ID number 1240038. Oh man. Gosh, I've done that in the last few years without the "I love you" part, but just, we're not friends.

We're not friends.

I haven't spoken to you in years. You want something from me and acting like we're friends.

We're not friends.

It was probably the scariest thing, the scariest thing to do to say that the first time. We're not friends. But then afterwards it just felt so free.

Oh my God, free, dude.

I was like, when I said it, I was like, I can't believe I'm saying this.

Yeah, because I—

all I wanted when I was a kid was friends.

This is whatever, you know what I'm saying?

You don't want to be alone, right? Yeah, but it's like, comes a time where you just can't fake it anymore, you know what I'm saying, dude?

Like, I— the more I started saying it, they'd be like, what are you gonna call in 6 months from Ryan Lewis? We're not friends. Like, I would, I would just say, like, and they would be so hurt hearing that.

Really?

And then I would just say, what are my kids' names?

Oh yeah.

Oh, like, what day?

Yeah. What's my wife's name?

Like, what? Like, what are we— tell me something that's going on in my actual life that you don't see on social media. Sing. Does that make—

it's like, kids' names.

We're not friends. You, you see my highlights on the internet. That's it. You don't know anything.

We played pickup basketball 10 years ago.

Yeah, like, I don't even play anymore. That's how much you were not friends, is the fact that you still think that. Like, you wouldn't even— you wouldn't even know that. And so— and sometimes I've had to tell people, like, we don't have a bad relationship. We don't have one, right?

We're just not friends.

We're not— we're not.

And hey, that's not a problem.

That's okay. I respect you. Yeah, I should.

Best.

Yeah, I do. I wish if it's like— there's no ill will here. It's like But why am I pretending that we're closer than we really are? Like, if— like, and conversely, I don't know your kids' names. Yeah, I don't know what's going on in your life. And some people will say, you never call me. I'll go, my phone works. You haven't called me either. Why is the onus all on me?

It's like, we're not that close. Yeah, we're not friends.

And I started doing that at 38.

It's 6 months ago. Isn't it crazy?

I mean, it's, it's, and there, there is something. So when I was turning 30, the last day of my 20s, I was speaking for somebody and I was talking about a documentary that I had done. And this lady, she says, I was literally, I was, I was 29, I had one day left in my 20s. And she goes, do you wanna know why we booked you to speak? I said, why? She goes, It's not because you're a good speaker. She said, your documentary. Well, yeah, my daughter's dating this guy and he's white, he's kind of a druggie and he lives on the floor of a crack house, but he does love basketball. Your documentary is about basketball. So, so I actually had him over to the house and, and we watched your documentary and because of your documentary, he called 73 junior colleges and asked them if, if he could come and play basketball. And he's going to be playing college basketball this fall. He called his mom, who he had not spoken to in 5 years. She said, you're not a good speaker. She said, you pulled a young man's life off the floor. And that day I said, how do I want to spend my 30s? And at the time I was, I was on an executive team at a big church, and I just thought I love this church, but somebody else can be on the executive team. And I quit.

Wow.

And I said, I want to spend my 30s pulling people's lives off the floor. If I have that ability, I want to do everything in my power to make that happen.

That's pretty cool.

So now that I'm entering into my 40s, I'm asking myself that question too, of going, how do I want to spend my 40s? And part of that is, is as I'm filling in the blank, as I'm inching towards August 20th, when I turn 40, I'm going, I don't want to be juggling these random relationships that I really don't have when I could just be honest with that person and just go, man, I respect you, hope things are well, but like, we're not, we're not friends. Stop putting me in group chats, connecting me with people that we're not even connected.

I don't want to get connected to.

Yeah, I don't. It's, it's sort of to be able to have some of those conversations. I wasn't willing to do that even 6, 7 months ago.

It's scary, man.

But, but yeah, as, as you enter into your 40s, you go, man, I really, I really want to enjoy my 40s, and I really want to be surrounded by the people that are actually my friends.

Wow.

Instead of using a bunch of little energy for a lot of small relationships that really are superficial.

Yeah, man.

And whatnot. So it's, again, it's a daily journey for me. I wish I was all polished and put together, but that's just not the truth.

In the next 6 months, text me how many times you tell that to someone and I'll let you know. We'll hold each other accountable. Yeah, we're not friends.

Yeah, that's right.

We'll create our own group chat group that we're not friends chat. Yep.

Here's the first, bro, if I sent you some screenshots of people that were like, come on, man, we go way back. I'm like, Way back where? Where do we go way back to, you know?

Something I heard you say before is why having a backup plan actually is the thing that's killing most people's dreams. Why is that?

Yeah, you know, I think whenever there is a— this idea of here's my parachute, you don't go all in. You don't give it your best because you have that fallback plan. So it's not about a wisdom side of things, it's about putting yourself in the prime position to move towards your goals. And you know the famous scene in The Dark Knight Rises? How did he make the jump without rope? It's the only way you can make it.

So good.

It was just an iconic scene. And as soon as he said without rope, everyone in the theater went—

or you die. Yeah, you either make it or you're dead.

But there's— but when you know you don't have rope, you jump a little higher.

Oh yeah.

And that, that is— it's like, Ryan, what can I do to jump a little higher? Run a little faster. Lose the rope. It's, it's the only way that you— it's like, do I train harder? It's just like, I mean, that'll help, but when you don't have that rope and it's your only thing, you're, you're going to go further than your competition.

What is the rope you're holding on to in your life right now that you need to let go of?

I don't know the exact answer to that question, to be honest. You know, I, you know, we were talking before, it's like, do I start doing my own event?

No, don't do it unless you feel called, man.

I mean, but that again, that, that's the like, so sometimes I'm like, oh, I'm holding on to just like, like one of my friends, he calls it, he goes, you got a corporate couch, man. He said, you're, you're just right. And I'm like, kind of cruising, but at the same time, like, it's like, dude, I gotta lock in.

Like, you're in the flow too with it.

Yeah, it's like I enjoy it. Yeah, but it's, it's a how long can you do that? And then it's like, okay, I'm gonna keep writing a book every—

let's say you— let's go, you're, you're a few months before you're 50. Let's go 10 years in the future, man. And let's say you, you lock in for the next decade doing the exact same things to maximum. You're 120, 150 days on the road speaking. You've maxed the revenue generation. You've maxed your level of giving. You're giving 49.5% to go even more than your friend every year. You are writing a book a year. Maybe you do an event, you know, smaller event in Dallas once a year. And you maximize for a decade the exact same path, just better.

Yeah.

How do you think you'll feel at 49 and a half? Looking back at the last decade, do you feel like you dropped the rope and went for it, or do you feel like you were holding on to something that was comfortable, that you were great at, that was familiar? Do you feel like you served at the greatest level, or you served what was great for you and easy for you because you could just do it on autopilot?

Yeah.

What do you think 49-year-old you will say in a decade? And I think it also, before you even answer it, I think it's also a question for everyone to answer, to reflect on, because you don't have to let go of the rope of every moment to like create something incredible or go for something. You don't have to do that. Also, you don't have to strive and achieve everything.

Yeah.

You can live a beautiful, fulfilling life in the pocket.

Totally. So one of, one of the questions that guided my 30s was, what would you do if you knew you couldn't fail? Okay. So that was a big part of what I talk about in getting people to try things and whatnot. When I first answered that question, I was, oh, I'd be in the NBA, documentary. You do that whole deal. Great. This next question, I, I don't know if I'm going to make it, uh, public facing. I don't know if I'm gonna like do something with this question, but it has been something I've been wrestling with, which is what would you do if you never needed another dollar in your life? What if you were set for life? What would you do with all of your time if you were post-economic? We have some friends who are post-economic, right? They don't need money anymore. They make in interest what we all dream of making someday, right? But yet they still work, which is interesting.

Yeah, why?

Yeah, it's like, what? Because they love it. Because they need it. You need purpose. You need purpose. You know, but I, I've, I've begun to think like, okay, if I didn't need a dollar, would I do every event that I'm doing this year? No, I wouldn't. I wouldn't, I wouldn't do every event. I do, I do a lot of 'em, but I wouldn't do every single one of them. And so when I think about 10 years from now, I think, man, would I, start saying no even more to create margin for fun projects that don't need to make money. I don't need to make money.

That's what my event was. You know, but it was a fun project that made no money, no dollars, no cents, but it brought a lot of joy and fulfillment and impact.

And dude, I think—

and it had its season in this place and, and 100%.

But when I think about that, I think about like, okay, 5 years from now, I say no more and I've got margin and I call Lewis 'cause we're friends now, right?

We're real friends.

I go, hey Lewis, hey man, I got some extra time. We should just do an event together and like, let's see how many of people like us would be willing to just all donate our time to do something to make LA a better city. Boo. And let's see, let's see how much money we could raise for the Boys and Girls Club of LA. And hey, it's gonna be a light lift. Oh hey, guess what? I found a production company to donate all of the gear and all of their hours for. So it's a light lift. None of us are selling anything. But hey, matter of fact, we're gonna do a tour and just like, we're gonna call it the Make a Difference Tour. And we're just going to, You pick the cities you want to be in. If you want to come, great. But we just, we kind of just like great potluck of giving, you know, like I just had a little dream session with you in 3 minutes, right? Mm-hmm. I don't have that space right now. Mm.

Because every day is planned for the next year and a half.

I mean, there's, there's, there's just with kids and sports and whatever it's like, but I would hope that 10 years from now that I wouldn't be holding onto that rope so tightly. And it's not like I need to do every single event, but I am running a business, I have employees, and the number one product is me getting on a stage, you know? And it's just like, okay, well, we get books and we can get workbooks and we do all of these other things and we could do courses and whatever, but it's just like—

but that's not making the money like you on stage.

Oh, it's like— and so it's like anytime I do get a speaking contract, I'm always looking at the calendar. I'm going, what else am I gonna be doing on that day? Golfing? You know, it's like, I like golf, but it's like, I actually could speak and go golfing the same day. It takes an hour. Yeah, yeah. It's so And so in the future, I would love to, and there's been times where I have been, where I've had opportunities to work with organizations that I just want to work with that, and I'd love to spend a few days with them. I don't have a few days.

You don't have that time.

Yeah, I don't have, and so I would maybe when my kids graduate high school and I have a little bit more margin in that, in that space.

Then how old are they, 8 and 12?

Or they are— good question— 6 and 11, about to be 7 and 12.

Okay, cool. So you got, you know, 7, 6, 7 years. Yeah, until it starts to happen. So good questions to think about.

Very much.

I'd love to hear what everyone's answer is in the comments below. Yeah, the next 10 years, you know, is there a rope that you need to let go of to step in who you truly whenever it comes. So for sure, this has been powerful, man. I appreciate you showing up, Ryan, and sharing this wisdom. I've got a couple of final questions for you before we get to it. I want to make sure people follow you. RyanLeake.com. Ryan Leake on social media as well. Yeah, you got some great content on there. So if people want more on how to navigate communication strategies, dealing with complicated people, you can get the book How to Work with Complicated People and all the other content that you have is on your website, RyanLeake.com. They want to book you for speaking.

Yeah.

They can go there as well. That's right. Check you out, man.

That's right.

This is a question I ask everyone at the end. It's called the 3 truths. We've already gone 10 years in the future. Let's go to the end of life. Imagine you get to create and accomplish anything you want for the rest of your life.

Yeah.

You had all that margin to do all the cool projects.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You gave 49.5% every year. All these things happen.

Yeah.

But for whatever reason, at the end of the day, you have to take all of your work with you, all your content, books, everything's gone. But you get to leave behind 3 lessons to the world.

Yeah.

I call it the 3 truths. What would that be for you?

The first truth is every single person that you and I know has an assignment from God. And until they get started on it, life will not make sense. Mm. And that could be a song to sing, a book to write, a movie to make, a podcast to record, a family to raise, a a student to teach. It could be in the mundane. It doesn't have to be a big dream, but I believe each and every person has been given a God assignment. There is a reason you are on this planet, and if you do not search for that God assignment, life will never make sense. That's the first truth. That's one. Second truth is that I would leave with the planet because I'm taking all my stuff with me anyway. It's okay.

You can't get access to this. This conversation is gone.

It's gone. I would say contentment is true wealth. Contentment is true wealth. The reason I believe that is because if you ask somebody what would make them happy, their number would be more. Mm-hmm. More, more, more, more, more followers, more money, more houses, more, more, more, more, more. I know some people that got a lot, but they don't have enough. When you, when your number is enough, you move completely different. And in fact, if you can find enough in your life anywhere, I would say you're the richest person I know.

Wow. So interesting you say that before you get to number 3. There was a great interview from Jim Carrey, who I'm a big fan of.

Yeah.

A couple of years ago where he said he was retiring from acting and he was doing an interview promoting a movie and he was like— and she was— the journalist was like, what are you going to do next? He goes, I think I'm done. You know, I think I'm retiring. I've done enough movies.

Yeah.

And she was like, no, you can't retire. Like, you're so good. And this and this. And he goes, I'm going to say something that no celebrity in Hollywood will ever admit. He said, I've done enough. I have enough. I am enough.

100%.

And, you know, it's easy for him in his career. He's done all these things. But usually a lot of people, when they're at the top, they feel like they need to keep going for more. And, and I think it's just knowing what to say yes to because you want to, not because you feel like you need to have more or you don't have enough.

Yeah, right.

Kind of like what you said. So.

Oh, yeah, man, that, that That enough thing will take you really far. That's when peace enters the chat.

Oh yeah.

Oh, there's no better feeling than enough. It doesn't create complacency where you say, I'm not gonna do it anymore. It's like, I just get to do it now. I don't have to do it.

Yeah. When you have inner peace, that is true abundance.

Oh my gosh. Yeah, if you wanna be rich, get enough.

Get enough. That's good.

Get enough.

The third truth.

Third truth. If you want to live like no one lives, give like no one gives. Mm. If you wanna live like no one lives, give like no one gives. What I love about what my wife and I get to do with our two boys is we don't think about generational wealth. We think about generational giving.

Interesting.

The DAF that I was telling you about earlier, our kids will inherit a lot of money that they have to give away.

Mm-hmm.

That's how it works. I don't know if my kids will drive a BMW. They might, they can if they want to, that's up to them. I don't know what size house they'll have. I don't know where they'll live in the world. I don't know what they're gonna do with their life, but they'll be givers. We did an exercise over dinner the other day. I said, hey, if I gave you $100,000 right now, what would you do with it? My first son, he says, well, I'd give $20,000 to God. I said, really? That's amazing. And then he said, and then I'd save another $20,000. I go, wow, okay, that's great. I said, so you got $60,000 left. What are you going to do with the rest of the $60,000? He said, I'll probably buy Pokémon cards. I went, okay, now we're on track. Now we're back again.

Sounds right.

Yeah. And the second kid goes, I go, okay, you get $100 grand, what do you do? He goes, I'd give $40 grand to God.

Competition, you know, he's like the ego, I'm gonna give more.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like this. I like that this is our house and it's better to give than receive. And that just, it's not about the money. It's about that spirit of generosity. You could feel it. You can feel a taker coming a mile away, but when you're in the presence of a giver, you breathe, you breathe a whole lot deeper, you breathe a whole lot easier. There isn't this, what's up the sleeve, what's the agenda? It's like, I'm here to give, I'm here to add value. I don't, I don't, I don't got any tricks up my sleeve. And so yeah, I think if you, if you give like nobody gives, then you'll live like nobody lives. Mm-hmm.

Final question, Ryan.

Yes.

What is your definition of greatness?

My definition of greatness is when you can truly discover your potential, your strengths, your influence, and leverage all of that to serve other people. Mm-hmm. Like when you figure out, I am really great at this thing, This is what God put me on the planet to do. And I have locked in on that and I am unlocking my potential. But I'm doing all of that to help somebody else. Yeah. Like to me, that is, that's the definition of greatness.

My man. Thanks for being here.

Appreciate you, man. Thanks.

Powerful, bro.

Thanks, man.

Thank you. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad-free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you, and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you, if no one has told you lately, that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great. Hey Fidelity, can I get a second opinion on stocks in the Fidelity app?

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