How Your Brain Is Hurting or Helping Your Relationships, Memory & Life w/Dr. Daniel Amen (PART 2) EP 1121

This is episode number 1121 with New York Times bestselling author, Dr. Daniel Amen. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. Oprah said, breathe, let go, and remind yourself that this very moment is the only one you know you have for sure. And Debbie Hampton said, take care of your mind and your body will thank you. Take care of your body and your mind will thank you. And my guest today is Dr. Daniel Amen, who has helped millions of people transform their lives and brains through Amen Clinics and his best selling books and public television programs. And the Washington Post has called Dr. Amen the most popular psychiatrist in America because of his work and his media appearances and clinics which have over 7,000 visits a month. Amen clinics also have the world's largest database of functional brain scans relating to behavior totaling over 180,000 scans on patients from 155 countries. And he's also written a new book called youd Brain Is Always Listening: Tame the Hidden Dragons that Control youl Happiness, Habits, and Hang-Ups. And this is actually the second part of a conversation. So if you haven't listened to the first part, make sure to go to lewishowes.com/1120 to listen to that as well. But in this episode, we discuss the biggest challenges Dr. Amen thinks the world is facing around brain health, how to optimize brain and heart health at the same time, how our brain health can affect the quality of our relationships, how constant overwhelm of dopamine is affecting our brain's functionality, why working on improving our memory is necessary and practical ways to start working on it, and so much more. Again, if you're enjoying this at any moment, make sure to share this with a friend that you think would be inspired by this message as well, so we can keep of changing lives together. You can copy and paste the link wherever you're listening to this or use the show note link lewishouse.com/1121 make sure to tag me and Dr. Amen as well over on social media when you're listening and sharing it on your social media profiles. Okay, in just a moment, the one and only Dr. Daniel Amen.

What is the biggest challenge you face? You've been doing this work for what? 30 years? 30 years, the biggest 183,000 scans, you're speaking about this all the time, you're writing incredible books about this all the time, you've got talk shows on this on public television, you've got, you're the leading expert. What's the biggest challenge in your life right now knowing all this information after 30 years? What do you still struggle with?

I hate the fact that all psychiatrists don't do this. I hate the fact that I'm still an outlier in my profession. And part of me loves that because I get to do something very cool and very special. But the fact that the masses of psychiatrists still are making diagnoses based on symptom clusters with no biological data, exactly like they did in 1840 when Lincoln was depressed, Lincoln was suicidal, went to his doctor. How did his doctor diagnose him? He talked to him. He looked at him, and then he treated him. That's exactly what's happening in 2021. It's insane. And every day it irritates me that, you know, they'll go, oh, there's no science behind what Dr. Amen does, even though I published 80 studies, some of the largest studies in the world. There's 14,000 scientific references on brain spec, if you go to the National Library of Medicine. But that's the stuff. It just really frustrates me because most people aren't getting the help they need. Psychiatric problems are not mental illnesses. They're brain illnesses. And that one idea changes everything. It decreases stigma. It increases compliance because everybody wants a better brain. Nobody wants to be called mental. calling someone mental shames them.

Yes.

People really don't want to. And yes, I know Lady Gaga came out and Justin Bieber came out. And it's like, that's awesome. But it's not mental illness. It's brain health. Exercise has been found to be a treatment for depression.

Yes.

As effective as Zoloft.

Gratitude is, like so, yeah.

Why not? Yeah. And. Let's work on getting the physical functioning of our brain right and optimizing our mind. And that's how we're going to end mental illness. So one of my other books called the End of Mental Illness. And I love that title, but I got a lot of grief from the title. It's like, what do you mean? I'm like, we need to stop calling these things mental illnesses and use these Bright Mind strategies because when your brain is better, for example, the second I in Bright Minds, is immunity and infections. There's a study, and I put in the end of Mental Illness, of a graph of the map of the United States of the highest incidence of schizophrenia. It's the Northwest, the North Midwest, and the West Coast. And right below it is a graph of the highest incidence of Lyme disease. They're virtually identical. Could schizophrenia in some cases be an infection that's attacking the brain? And I think the answer is yes, not in all cases, but it's something we should be screening for.

And I have a- People with Lyme's disease have a higher risk of schizophrenia, is that- They do.

And they have a higher incidence of virtually all mental health challenges. And I have so many great stories. One of them I talk about in the book, Adriana, 16, beautiful, straight-A student, kind, goes to Yosemite on vacation with her family. And when they get to their cabin, they're surrounded by six deer. And they think it's a magical moment. But Lyme is often transmitted by deer ticks. And 10 days later, she's hallucinating. and she's violent. And they put her in a psychiatric hospital. She's diagnosed by a psychiatrist trained at Stanford with schizophrenia, told the mother, Adriana needs to be on this medication for the rest of her life. And her mother's like, no, I'm not okay with this. And they had spent like $100,000 and ended up at my clinic, spending a lot less than that. And when we saw her brain, We went, her brain's infected.

It shows the infections.

It shows the tendency toward infection. And it turned out when we tested for Lyme, she had it. And on an antibiotic, within a year, she was herself again. And she went on, she graduated from Pepperdine, and then she got a degree in HR from the University of London. And she's normal. And I remember, 'cause she's all one of my other doctors, when I got to meet her, I mean, both she and I just cried because she's the reason I do what I do. That's beautiful. But infectious disease, including COVID-19, I have about 50 COVID scans. COVID is not good for your brain. And about 20% of people with COVID will get a new onset diagnosis of anxiety, depression.

Come on, really?

Yeah, it is not a good thing. You know, a lot of people go, oh, it's like the flu. No, it's not like the flu. flu. It can impact your brain. And we knew it early on because you lost your sense of taste and smell. Well, those are central nervous system struggles. And it's pretty interesting.

Has there been any scans from people who have gotten vaccines on the effects of vaccines?

It's a great question. I've scanned lots of people with vaccines. I haven't seen a pattern with it. Now, some people will be hurt with vaccines, right? I mean, anytime there's any medicine, there's a risk. There's a risk, but I knew this was serious when I lost my dad to COVID-19.

I'm sorry to hear that.

And I have a clinic in Manhattan, which is the epicenter early on in the pandemic. My 28-year-old employee ended up on a ventilator for 10 weeks.

You're a 28 year old.

28 year old.

10 weeks.

10 weeks and is just not the same. So have they recovered or not the same?

Really?

Yeah, because there's this whole thing people are talking about long COVID and we've treated a lot of people with long COVID. What does long COVID mean? It means you're not better in three days. In fact, you're not better in six months. you still struggle with anxiety, with brain fog, with muscle aches and so on. And it depends. I've talked a lot since the pandemic started. Your best defense against COVID-19 is your immune system.

Yes.

And often it's your vitamin D level. So the strategy for immunity and infections is optimize your vitamin D level, either by getting more sun or taking a supplement. like 80% of the population has suboptimal levels of vitamin D in the study that just nailed it for me. If your level, so normal is between 30 and 100. If your level is under 20, you have double the risk of cancer of those people who are over 40. So I keep my level around 80.

If you're in the sun all day, you're having the supplements yet.

Right, and it's just that one act It's like, is this good for my brain or bad for it? And if I do one thing, I'm more likely to do two things. If I do two things, I'm more likely to do 11 things.

You'll stack it.

So the N in Bright Minds is neurohormones. I alluded to that earlier. Testosterone's really important for brain health. Now you don't want too much because then your libido will go up and your empathy will go down, which is a prescription for divorce, losing half your net worth, and visiting your children on the weekends. So that's not a good thing. But low testosterone goes with depression and goes with anxiety and goes with low energy. So thyroid, DHEA, testosterone, estrogen, progesterone, so on. So getting your hormones taxed. D is diobesity. So we talked about being overweight, but also having high blood sugar.

Diobesity.

Diobesity.

What does that mean? Diobesity.

It's a combination. of your overweight and you have high blood sugar. Either one of those is a mental health, brain health risk factor. And 50% of that, get this, Louis, just shocking, 50%, five, zero percent of the population is either diabetic, 14%, or pre-diabetic, 36%. that's a disaster. And that comes from the simple carbs. We're pouring and pounding in our body.

It's an insulin response. So if we're diabetic or pre-diabetic, what.

Is that doing to our brains? It's atrophying, making your brain smaller and it's murdering the hippocampus. You know, those babies, seahorses, 600-700 a day, you said?

700 a day. 700 a day, they're being born and dying right away. Right. As opposed to connecting and multiplying functionality neurons in the brain.

And helping your mood and helping your memory. And what's interesting, I'm 66. My youngest is 17 getting ready to go off to college and we produce the same number of stem cells every day. Hers are more likely to stay than an older person's because the blood flow to my brain, not my brain, but the blood flow to most 66-year-olds is not healthy. And that's why aging is progressive. And did you know this will horrify you? 50% of people 85 will have dementia. And I'm not okay with that.

50% of people?

85. So if I'm fortunate enough to live to 85 or beyond, I have a one in two chance of having lost my mind. That's why I'm serious about this. I love my four children. I never wanna live with them. I just don't. I just don't. And I never wanna be a burden to them. And I know later in my dad's life, my siblings, 'cause I'm the medical person, are like, you, know, you need to take his keys from him. I'm like, Do you know him? Do you know how that conversation's gonna go? And I don't want my kids having to have that conversation with me, which means I have to do the right thing so I can stay sharp for as long as I can. And so I'm not overweight and I don't have high blood sugar because I get rid of the simple sugars in my life, bread, pasta, potato, rice, sugar. Those just, they don't have enough nutrients to pay off the sugar. Right.

Right.

They quickly turn to sugar. It's this thing called the glycemic index. Right.

Do you have any cheat days or a little here and there or is it like, I don't.

I don't.

Do you have a dessert, a couple bites? Or you like-- I do.

We go to Italy, I mean, not recently, but go to Italy and have a gelato.

But it's-- But it's the daily consumption of these things which are really hurting.

But I have things I love. Like, I have almost every day a cup of frozen blueberries. And I'll put a couple of Stevia-sweetened chocolate chips in it. And it's less than 100 calories. and I love it. Or the hot chocolate, I love that. And, you know, I have a protein shake in the morning. I love it, right? I only eat food I love. That loves me back. Yes.

It's gonna take practice, you know, for a lot of people. We've been conditioned to eat bad foods consistently for so long. We've gotta condition ourselves to start eating good food.

It's just a habit.

It's a habit.

Right, is it a good habit or a bad habit? And your brain is always listening. There's actually a whole section. on bad habit dragons. And the worst bad habit dragon is the oblivious bad habit dragon. You just never think about the products you put on your body. Another strategy under T for toxins is download the app Think Dirty. I have no financial interest in it. But the app Think Dirty is not what you think it is. It allows you to scan your personal products and it'll tell you on a scale of one to 10 how quickly they're killing you. So for example, since I was 14, I shaved with barbasol. I like it, it's soft, it works. On a scale of one to 10, 10 being bad, it's a nine, come on. And I'm like, no, I like myself way too much to put crap on my body. And so I get something now called Kiss My Face, that's a two. And people go, well, it's more expensive. And it's like it is, except it lasts 50 times longer. So it's way less expensive. And I love it.

It's less toxic.

And it loves me back.

Yeah.

And the same with the shampoo. I was using. I forget. But now I forget. It's been so long. Now I use something called a LaFia. Made in Africa, it's a two, get it on Amazon. It's just a practice of being thoughtful about what I put in my mouth, what I put on my body, and people go, Isn't that hard? And I'm like, Being sick is hard.

That's hard.

This is easy. God gave you a big brain for a reason. None of this is hard. It just you create new and different habits. Because ultimately the mother habit, is this good for my brain or bad for it? No, by the way, if it's good for your heart, it's good for your brain. I wrote a fun book you would really like called the Brain in Love. I used to be a columnist for Men's Health magazine. And I wrote a column for three years, Am I Normal? People write in about all that. And so anyways, I wrote Brain in Love. and I've been saying forever, whatever's good for your heart is good for your brain, because it's about blood flow. Your brain is 2% of your body's weight, but uses 20% of the blood flow and 30% of the calories you consume, which is why food is so important. But whatever's good for your heart is good for your brain. When I was writing Brain and Love, I went, whatever's good for your heart is good for your brain, is good for your genitals. 'cause it's all about blood flow. Did you know 40% of 40 year olds have erectile dysfunction? Which means 40% of 40 year olds have brain dysfunction. 'Cause if you have blood flow problems anywhere, it likely means they're everywhere.

And- I'm 38, you're scaring me.

It's just another reason to stand up for yourself. To do the right things. Exactly. Because your sex life is better. And I'm just a huge fan. And when people get on the brain health train, when they become a brain warrior, their actions get better. And I love that because I want people connected with their partners.

How much does the brain affect our choices in intimate relationships, our choices in who we choose to be partner with, who we're connected to our love life, how much of the brain helps or hurts our love.

But your brain does what it's trained to do. So if you were trained by parents who bickered all the time, you're more likely to pick someone you bicker with, even though you hate it.

You like it, yeah.

The brain doesn't like change. That's why therapy is important, because it's like you could work on it over time and create new habits. I've scanned thousands of couples. I love scanning couples and I didn't used to. I remember 1991, I'm just started scanning and I see this couple, they brought their two kids to see me because I'm also a child psychiatrist and little girl got better, but the little boy wasn't getting better. And as I saw him, I'm like, oh, his parents hate each other. he's under chronic stress. So I saw the parents, I'm like, you guys should come see me, because your bad relationship is causing your son's stress. And they're like, Dr. Eamon, we like you a lot. We've seen four other marital therapists, and they just make it worse. And in my head, don't ever have this thought. I'm like, well, maybe you just didn't see anybody good enough. Don't ever have that thought. Don't do that. And when I saw them on the first, session, I had two blue leather couches in my office. They sat on the opposite end of each couch. It's a bad sign in marital therapy. And after about three months, I know I'm not gonna get them better. I feel hopeless, which is terrible for a psychiatrist to feel. But she had a PhD in Grudge Holding. I mean, she was beating stuff. She'd bringing up stuff from 15 years ago over and over and over. And she's married to a guy called the Sniper because he was always late to appointments. And whenever she'd settle down and be more able to learn, he would say something so evil, so awful to her just to get her going again. And I start having physical stress symptoms when I realize they're on my schedule. And at nine months, I'm in the shower getting ready to go to work, and I know they're on my schedule, my stomach starts to hurt. And I'm like, damn, these people are in my shower. Today I'm going to tell them to get divorced because it's actually better for children to not be raised in chronic conflict than for the parents to stick together fighting like they are. I agree. But I grew up Catholic. You don't get divorced. And it's like, you, don't get divorced, it's a bad thing. And because I had that thought, the Catholic voice came and visited me and said, because you are not a good enough therapist, you're going to condemn their soul style. Oh, wow. And I started looking at the water faucet going, how much therapy is this going to take to get over? And I got out of the shower and I called my friend from the Imaging Center. I said, will you give me two scans for the price of one? Because I was always negotiating for my patients. And he's like, why? I said, Jack, I have this couple and I don't know what to do for them. He's like, couple. He said, you, know, I've been married twice. I can't figure it out. Maybe we could do a website and call it brainmatch.com.

Oh, that's amazing. I like that.

And when I presented that to the couple, they're like, well, this isn't working. Let's try something else. I mean, they knew it wasn't working, too. And she had an OCD brain, which totally fit in retrospect. She just couldn't let anything go. OCD brains, they're front part of their brain works way too hard. And he had an ADD brain. His front part was sleepy, which is why it was late and why it was conflict driven. And I put him on Ritalin, her on Prozac, balanced their brain. Told him I didn't wanna see him for a month 'cause I needed a break. And when they came back a month later, they sat on the same couch. Wow. She had her hand on his leg. Wow. Which is a good sign in marital therapy. And it's 30 years ago. I gave a lecture in San Francisco a couple of years ago, they came to it. They're still married.

Shut up.

They love each other, they don't fight with each other, she lets things go, he pays attention, and- They're still married. With a better brain.

Wow.

Comes a better marriage. And when I met my second wife, when I met her, I knew I wasn't gonna fall in love with her until I saw her brain. And two weeks later, 'cause I really liked her.

So what does that mean? You like her, like, oh, but she needs to get scanned First before I say I'm yours.

Yes, absolutely. And if you date any of my children for four months, if I think you're gonna stick around, I scan you. I'm not kidding.

I love this.

It's sort of like meet the parents, but worse.

Put me up, put me.

Up. So Tana, my wife, is a neurosurgical ICU nurse. So she loves what we do. And so when I suggested, Hey, come to the clinic, let me look at your brain. She was all in.

Okay. And then what did you see in the brain and how did that match.

Your-- so her brain was actually pretty healthy, but I could see she had a head trauma in the past. And I'm like, Do you ever have a head injury? And she said, no. And I'm like, Because the scans don't lie. And I'm like, so maybe it was before she could remember. Right? But, She's like, no. I'm like, Ever in a car accident? She goes, yeah. When I was 25, my sister fell asleep at the wheel going 75 miles an hour. We flipped three times, landed on the roof, and only because my seat was, I was laid back, that I survived. She said, But I didn't lose consciousness. And what people don't realize, consciousness is a brain stem. phenomenon really deep in the brain, you can totally damage the cortex of the brain. And so... We work to make it better and she's been my best friend for 15 years. Wow.

So if someone has a damaged brain, let's say you're hypothetically have the ability to go and get it scanned, you meet someone, you're dating them, you're like, I really like this person, I'm going to get them scanned. and their brain is messed up.

Let's just say... Just know you're in for a wild ride. Now, if they're not willing to do anything about it, why would you be in a relationship with it? It's just your life's gonna be hard. But I love them and it's going to be stressful. But if they're like, oh, well let's make this better... Let's improve it. That's awesome. Right? I mean, that's the attitude, right? If I scan my daughter's boyfriend, And he goes, no, I'm not gonna do any of this. You need to move him off.

Or you've got a decision, you're either gonna struggle in this relationship, and you maybe have some good times, but a lot of stress, or you can move on.

Right. It's just a piece of information that I think everybody should have. And when you're young and in love, you don't really think about, well, how's his mom? How's his dad? What's the family history? But, you know, being 66 and being a psychiatrist for 40 years, all of those things matter.

And what's the, so that's, we mentioned diobesity, which is being overweight, high blood sugar, obesity, stuff like that. What's the S in Bright Minds?

Sleep. Absolutely essential. So we talked about autophagy early. That's what happens when you sleep. your brain cleans, it washes itself. Actually, the cleaning crew shows up. We didn't even know that. It's a system called the glymphatic system that is asleep basically when you're awake and turns on when you're asleep.

Sweeping out thoughts, stress, fats, and all that stuff.

Integrating information, but literally cleaning the synapses in your brain like the cleaning crew shows up. And if you're not sleeping six and a half, seven, eight hours a night, trash is building up in your brain, making you more likely to be depressed, to have brain fog, overweight, all these things, right? Yeah. And so being disciplined about a good time for sleep, avoiding things that hurt sleep, doing things that help sleep can be just so helpful.

Yeah, I had Andrew Huberman on a couple of times, neuroscientist out of Stanford. And I told him, you know, I'm trying to improve the quality of my brain and I'm taking Spanish class three days a week. Got a private Spanish teacher. One, because for 20 years, I've always wanted to do it, but it always gets too hard and I stop. And then at the end of the year, when I reflect on what I'm proud of, I'm always not proud that I didn't stick with something I wanted to do. So I keep telling myself, I either need to let this dream go and kill the dream and move on with my life, or I need to actually be consistent with it, even if it takes me years of practice until I'm fluent and conversational. And for the first three months, it was like it hurt my brain so much. Just learning, studying, trying to remember these things, it just was painful. Now I'm noticing the ideas are just as complex, but my brain isn't under so much pain and stress or just confusion or whatever. Like, I'm not enough or I can't get this or whatever it's saying. It's more like, okay, I understand this is challenging, but I know I can get this. So let me be patient with myself. And I feel like I'm picking up so much more because I may not get it in that moment, but then the next day or three days later, because I'm resting, because I'm cleaning out the mess. It's integrating. Like when I sleep, I feel like it's integrating what I learned days ago and now I remember it. But if I'm not sleeping well, if I'm stressed out, it's much harder to remember these things.

Absolutely, yeah. Because it's one of the things that sleep does. It integrates what we learn during the day and it compares it to our experience from the past and then decides what to keep and what to let go. But if you're not sleeping well, or you're drinking to put yourself to sleep, It damages REM sleep, which is the most restorative sleep, and you're not gonna get the benefit from it. So sleep is absolutely essential. Sleep apnea, people who snore loudly, who stop breathing at night, triples their risk of Alzheimer's disease.

Sleep apnea, so how do we, well, I mean, it's probably applying these things will help you get rid of sleep apnea. and obesity is probably a big part of sleep apnea, I'm assuming, right?

For some people. Now, some people are thin and have sleep apnea and they need to wear a CPAP. But working with the smartest people I know, right? This would be part of greatness, that the smartest people I know work with the smartest people they know. And so, stop denying you have a problem or saying, I won't do this or that. So many guys go, oh, I'll never wear a CPAP. cPAP. It's like, well, you're murdering those baby seahorses every night when you're not breathing. So we talked about your brain uses 30% of the calories you consume, 20% of the blood flow goes to your brain, 20% of the oxygen. Any oxygen debt, stay damages your brain. And I have near-drowning brains. They're just awful. Any oxygen-dep state and sleep apnea is an oxygen-dep state because you're stopped breathing. Which is a very bad thing.

Are you able to recover those brains that had near-drowning or- Sometimes. Sometimes.

Yeah, it depends. We don't have the Lazarus treatment. to bring dead brain cells back to life, but we can get the struggling ones better. And I have one girl, it just breaks my heart. She was taking too much of a pain medication and her heart stopped for 10 minutes. And I have her brain beforehand, it was this big fat, I don't know, watermelon, and now it's like a prune. And I can get it better. It's never going to be normal. Really? Heartbreaking.

Is she able to have an okay life still, or is it struggling with...

And it's not just her, it's her parents. Lives will never be the same again. We have to be so much more serious about brain health.

When someone's brain shrinks, over trauma, physical trauma, emotional trauma, whatever it might be when it shrinks obesity. What happens to the brain inside the skull? Is there more room? Is there more fluid in between the brain and the skull? Like what is actually, how small could it be? Is it rattling? Like what is actually happening with the space between the brain and the skull when it shrinks?

So it gets bigger. The space gets bigger.

Space gets bigger.

So fluid will take it up because your brain has to be contained. But that's not what you want.

You don't want fluid. You don't want a lot of fluid.

More fluid. In fact, if you have too much fluid, it's called hydrocephalus, and that can shrink the brain. One of the causes of Alzheimer's disease is called NPH, or normal pressure hydrocephalus. And when we put a shunt in and drain some of that excess fluid, people actually think better.

Put a shunt in the brain, the skull, open up the skull.

Put a shunt and then we have it drain into your abdomen.

Really?

Yeah. And that's not uncommon.

Put something in the brain and it goes down.

But like, think of a tube. To drain the body or what? No, no, inside. Well, they'll tunnel it underneath your skin and really, so on.

It goes all the way down. That's a crazy.

I actually did a study. It was fascinating on something called omental transposition surgery, where we took the omentum from the gut. So it's like this fatty apron on top of your abdominal organs. And it's loaded with stem cells. So we actually bunched it up and put it on the brain, but kept it connected to the blood supply and the gut. It was Pretty wicked surgery, but we found it really improved cognition. Now, this was before the whole stem cell movement. We've been working with stem cells to improve brain function. That's crazy. Pretty interesting.

Crazy. I wanna ask you about dopamine. In the last, I believe, seven years, I feel like with social media, smartphones, kids having smartphones much earlier and earlier, video games, the access to these things, the constant dopamine hits that we're all getting more with our phones. What does an overwhelmed dopamine do to the brain? Does it support brain health? Does it hurt brain health? Should we have only 10% of the dopamine we're getting? What is it doing to our function of our brains?

Dopamine is really important. It's a very important neurotransmitter. Now, there are a bunch of them that are really important. and serotonin and oxytocin and endorphins and cortisol. Dopamine works on the area called the nucleus accumbens, which is the pleasure center in the brain. Push on that and you feel, whoa, I like that. If you push on it too much or too intensely, it wears it out. Which is why my book, Feel Better Fast, there's a whole section on drip dopamine. Dump it.

Don't dump dopamine on yourself.

Don't dump it. In fact, your brain is always listening. I have a brand new 12-step program. The 12-step program for addiction was actually developed 85 years ago and has no neuroscience in any of the 12 steps. Really? And one would think the brain should be part of the 12 steps. So I redid the 12 steps. I know some 12-steppers will hate me. But I'm like, well, if the neuroscientist was gonna do it, what would I do? And step number seven is drip dopamine, don't dump it. dope it. Because when you dump dopamine, pornography dumps dopamine. Cocaine dumps dopamine. Alcohol dumps it.

Drugs.

Skydiving dumps it. Running with the bulls dumps it, along with a whole bunch of cortisol. You wear out your pleasure centers, which is why in Justin Bieber's docu-series Seasons, he came out, I was his doctor, he talks about dopamine. And I pray that children do not become famous until their brains are developed. He was famous really early, and every bad thing happened to him because he felt bad. He had no dopamine left. He'd worn out his pleasure centers.

He's doing so much of it all day long, all the attention.

And so part of the, therapy was we have to rehabilitate your pleasure centers. And so you want to avoid things that dump dopamine and engage in things that drip dopamine.

What are some of those things?

Like our conversation today. I mean, it's just been so much fun for me. Holding my wife's hand, looking in her eyes, playing with the grandbabies, oregano, Drips, dopamine, pumpkin seeds, dip, drip, dopamine, magnesium, drip, dopamine, rhodiola, ashwagandha. I mean, some cool supplements. So, I want to protect my pleasure centers because pleasure in many ways can be the enemy of happiness.

Really?

Because if you have too much, it wears them out and then you begin to feel flat. And that's how addictions start. Something dumps dopamine, you go, oh, that's awesome. Like a young superstar does a concert, and like, that's amazing, but afterwards, they have nothing left. They're alone in their hotel room or whatever. And they're playing video games, which is dumping dopamine that they don't have. And so then they're like, well, maybe I'll smoke, maybe I'll vape, maybe I'll do marijuana or cocaine. And then it's flattening. the response. Sugar does this too. It actually flattens the response. It's like, whoa, ew. Whoa, ew. And pretty much you're into whoa, ew. Your whole life. That's the addiction.

How this is going to upset a lot of people. What is the research and the science saying about marijuana in terms of the brain health and marijuana? There's a lot of people talking about how it's actually relaxing them. I've never been high on anything in my life. I've never done drugs, never been drunk, never drinking alcohol except for a couple sips when I was a kid as a taste.

So, your brain is probably going to be better than you think it is. Oh, so. All right.

So, yeah, never been drunk.

And I'm one of the few people, I've been drunk twice, but I learned quickly. I'm like, no, I don't like to be out of control. It's not for me. All the hater comments come out when I talk about marijuana. But I was, I mean, it was 20 years ago. I was on the radio with Michael Savage in the Bay Area and he's like, People are just gonna hate you when you talk about marijuana. I said, But everybody who calls in, who's been smoking for a while, is gonna spontaneously complain. of memory problems and everybody who called in complained of memory problems.

I can't remember yet.

So, I knew it was trouble right after I started looking at scans. It makes your brain look older than you are.

How about if you're smoking daily or once a week or... Well, if you.

Smoke once a week... Is this both? It's just marijuana. If you smoke once a week, the problem is it's fat souble, which means it stays in your body for 30 days.

Oh, man.

And so that one decision can actually impact your brain for 30 days. And so if you're smoking a lot, you have a pretty high level in your body. And I published a study with my colleagues from USC on a thousand pot smokers. We compared them to a group that never smoked.

Oh my gosh. What happened?

Every area of their brain was lower.

Come on.

Every area of their brain was lower and blood flow. Blood flow is really important.

Now is it the pot or maybe they're also eating sugar or drinking or they're also overweight?

It was the consistent variable that we looked at.

Gotcha.

And then, I did the world's largest imaging study on 62,454 scans, looking just at how the brain ages. What do little kids' brains look like? What old people's brain? What's the trajectory of aging? And it sort of sucks. Really busy brains, kids have really busy brains. Sort of levels out by the time you're 25, 26, and then it stays that way until you're 60, and then it starts to drop off. It's not good. And then we looked at, well, what accelerated aging in our database? And schizophrenia was actually the worst. Their brains were like 10 years older. Then the next worst was marijuana. And it shocked us.

Come on.

'Cause we looked at alcohol and smoking, depression, ADHD. No, it was marijuana. I'm very concerned. And now I'm a fan of legalizing marijuana, 'cause please don't put people in smoke pot in jail. That is just a bad use of resources. But let's not say it's healthy. It's healthy for us. Because it's not. Kids who smoke, teenagers who smoke, or use edibles, have a higher incidence of anxiety, depression, and suicide. It's funny you're teenagers.

You're funny you're saying that because you see the case, or I'll see this online of people making the case for marijuana. And I'm, if people want to smoke and drink, it's on them. You know, I'm choosing not to personally for myself, but I'm not here to judge someone or make someone wrong. But I see people make the case to say, well, look at this person who, I don't even know what the condition's called, where it's like they're shaking, they can't control their body, they're like constantly shaking when they move, and then they smoke, and then all of a sudden you see them relax. It's these viral videos. of these individuals who have these conditions or can't calm their mind, they have marijuana, and all of a sudden they're like the most peaceful, relaxed person. And it helps that condition.

And there's evidence for it can work to help some forms of seizures. There's evidence for that. It helps with nausea and chemotherapy. It helps with apetite for people who are really struggling with cancer and they've lost their appetite. And it's like a lot of other things that can be good and bad. And so, I mean, you got to make your choice. Yeah. Ketamine, for example, has been shown to have antidepressant qualities and yet is a drug of abuse. And so in a supervised setting, for some people it can be helpful. But let's not unleash it on the whole population. Right. And because- It's a recreational thing. As the perception of a drug, as the perception of dangerousness of a drug goes down, use goes up. And that's what's happening for our children.

And marijuana, I'm hearing you say based on this 60,000 scan study, is this what it was? is one of the main factors for aging faster.

Correct.

The brain aging faster, which makes you lose memory, which makes you slow down, all these things, right?

Correct.

And what about smoking?

It's bad. Because nicotine constricts blood flow to the brain. And so, and that's vaping.

Vaping is just as bad.

Vaping is just as bad.

Well, you move it doesn't have the chance.

When you vape, you don't have as many toxins. But the flavoring is toxic. And so it's just a bad idea to get involved in changing your consciousness. What's the matter with your consciousness? Let's change that. Use diaphragmatic breathing, taming the ants, killing the ants, taming the dragons. Let's teach you how to mentally manage your mind. so you don't have to medicate it.

Have you seen anyone who is, the mind is under so much attack that they've been addicted to substances, they've tried to get off, and they're unable to stay consistent with healthier habits because they had some type of mental condition that was so aggressive that they were just like, I need to drink, I need to smoke because I've tried the other way and it doesn't work. Or have you seen people who have been successful time after time if they're able to follow the challenging practices consistently to improve the quality of their brain?

So I would say they're simple practices. I've seen people- It's challenging for people to- I've seen people both ways.

Yeah.

Right. And often it takes enough pain for them to change.

Meaning what?

But sometimes like losing their kids. But sometimes even when they lose their kids they don't change because their brain has been highjacked. I mean, I don't know if you're like me, but one of the reasons I never did drugs is I never wanted something else to control my life.

Yeah, that was one of the reasons. I also never wanted to make an excuse if, because I would see people, especially playing football in college, guys would get drunk after a game, and then they would, they would not be well the next day at practice. That was one. I was like, I want to have an advantage, but then people would do things and they're like, cheat on their girlfriend. While I was drunk, I'm sorry. I was like, if I cheat or do something bad, I want to own it. I want to be responsible for being a jerk or being a or whatever I did, as opposed to blaming a substance that did that thing.

So you want to be in control of your whole life. Absolutely. And that's what I want. I don't want anything else controlling me. And if you know these things are potentially addictive, it's like playing Russian roulette. It's like, I would never play Russian. roulette. I'm like, that's stupid. You know, why would I increase my chance of trouble? I mean, you know, to think you're invulnerable. It's not. Not a. Not a smart way to live. But anyway, I've seen patients both ways. You know, some people come and I teach them how to correct their negative thoughts, and they like walk out of my office. It's like, no, I can't do that. I'm attached. to I'm a loser. And other people, they get it. And I'm always trying to be, how can I be more effective? And I find the easier I make it, the simpler I make it, like, you know, how do I get my brain healthy? Bright minds. It's like super simple, right? I mean, it's a little complicated, but it's your brain.

Yeah, yeah. What about the, the wave of plant medicine use and normalization of plant medicine. The people saying it's transformation of transformational work, helping them heal their pain of their past, helping them overcome trauma, helping them break through of things they've never been able to mentally break through with. This work of Ayahuasca plant medicine, all these different things. What are your thoughts on that? in terms of brain scan results?

Well, I actually did a study with ibogaine, which is one of the plant medications.

It's like an ayahuasca or...

It's like ayahuasca and it wasn't good from a brain perspective.

Really?

But I think it's going to be an interesting, exciting part of psychiatry. And there are lots of studies that's just recently legalized, not now, but in two years in Oregon. And- They're legalized what?

Plant medicine?

Plant medicine. In Oregon.

Mushrooms.

Oh, they are. Psilocybin. In Oregon. Yeah. Microdosing. Because they're stupid. The problem is, I wish, so the big innovations in psychiatry now are magic mushrooms and marijuana and more medications. And I'm like, how about diet exercise and learning how to not believe every stupid thing you think? Don't you think we should at least.

Start- Let's start- and sleep.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Start with brain health, but I think it's going to be an interesting, exciting thing. But, you know, psychiatrists were really interested and excited about Valium, and they were really interested and excited about cocaine. Freud used cocaine. And they went, oh, they're interested and excited about marijuana. And they go, well, the brain has cannabinoid receptor sites. Well, the brain also has benzoreceptor sites and that didn't work out well. And the brain also has opiate receptor sites and that didn't work out well. Well, we should be finding ways to naturally increase opiates and that's exercise.

Well, people say, well, plants are natural. You know, and this has been happening for centuries with our ancestors.

And cocaine is natural. Right? Right. I mean, just because.

Sugar is natural, I guess.

Sugar is natural. Right. I mean, is it helpful? That's the question.

So what about magic mushrooms or mushrooms are microdosing this? You know, I've heard mushrooms are good to eat, you know, food mushrooms.

Well, I actually make, I have a supplement company called BrainMD and we make something called Smart Mushrooms. I put a scoop in my shake every morning. It's got lion's mane and with Cordyceps and Reishi, and they have both immune system benefits and cognitive benefits. And I feel at 66, every bit as sharp as when I was 20.

So, what's the difference between those mushrooms.

Versus the- They don't matter. Hallucinogenic effects.

What happens to the brain when we hallucinate?

It activates. It actually turns on some of the limbic or emotional parts of the brain. And if you're doing it in a therapeutic environment, you might be able to reprocess some of those painful memories in a different way. You might be able to separate from them, get a different perspective of them. But there are other ways to do that that might not have side effects, like there's a treatment for trauma I like called EMDR. Eye movement desensitization. desensitization and reprocessing. I studied that in police officer.

I hear amazing things from this.

So helpful.

And that does a similar strategy of.

Activates your emotional brain and then calms it. So I did a study with police officers who had PTSD from being involved in shootings. And most police officers don't want to be involved in shootings that it becomes traumatic for them if they hurt someone and like soldiers in war and they were all off work and on average of eight EMDR sessions, they all went back to work and it calmed down the emotional parts of their brain. So that's pretty exciting. There's another technique I use called Havening, which is bilateral hemisphere stimulation. That's what EMDR is. You bring up the get your eyes to go back and forth. And that trauma connects to another trauma, which can connect to another trauma. It's really interesting. But Havening is just really simple. It's thinking about the trauma. I want people always to go into their pain, not away from their pain. And so, for example, I told you my dad died May 5th last year. And a couple of days later, I'm at my mom's house. and we're just going through paperwork, right? I mean, it's what you do after somebody dies. And somebody, some idiot, had a picture of my dead father in the mortuary, in that stack of papers. And I'm just, and all of a sudden I find it and it hits me and it just bothered me. And a couple of hours later I realized it was bothering me, it was circling in my head. And so I teach my patients this. It's Havening. It's like, think about what's bothering you and for 30 seconds stimulate both hemispheres of your brain. So as I do this, it's stimulating that side. If I do that, stimulate while you bring up the trauma and do that like up to six times. And after the first time, I'm like, that's the last picture my dad will ever see.

Wow.

And it was okay. And then I did it twice more. And the picture became my favorite picture of my dad because he was at peace. And I slept like a baby that night. And the picture never bothered me again. It's just simple. And there's these simple techniques that everybody should know. Why do you have to be sick? to learn how to be well. Shouldn't we have, and we have a high school course called Brain Thrive by 25 that we teach kids how to love and care for their brains, their minds, their relationships and be purposeful. Yeah.

You have some beautiful techniques, some beautiful information. I'm very grateful for this. I've got, I think, a couple more questions if we've got some time. I've got so many notes here. this has been extremely helpful. I want to talk about memory. And then we can probably, I think we can wrap it up because I'm probably going a little long here. But I'll talk about memory in an age of having everything at our fingertips and having all the information available without needing to remember. How important is it for us to get back to remembering? Remembering phone number. I remember as a kid, I used to know all these phone numbers from your mom, you know, your home, your dad's office.

-Now, we don't know any of them.

-Exactly. I'm telling you, my girlfriend's phone number, right? It's like it's always programmed to click a button and have an action. How important is memory training for us as humans in a world of lack of memory? And what are a few things we could do to increase the ability to remember?

So like you're learning Spanish, working your memory helps you to keep it. We actually have a course. I work with someone, I don't know if you've ever interviewed Jim Carroll. He's hysterical. He's a memory athlete. And yeah, you would love him. And he was a steel mill worker and selling Avon products. And then he had cardiomyopathy when he was 49. And as he was doing his PT, he was riding a bike, and rather than watch TV, he started memorizing things. And that was the secret. New learning with exercise. He learned all the zip codes in the United States.

All of them?

All of them.

Wait, how many zip codes are there?

Thousands.

Wow.

In fact, you could just say, you know, your zip code, and he'd go, Hey, you're from Erie, Pennsylvania. That's crazy. His memory is just phenomenal. And then he learned all the Oscar movies and all the Oscar actresses and actors, and his memory is just unbelievable. He can go to a group of 2,000 people and give them tickets that have 12 letters on them and a movie on the other side, and he'll call on people randomly, you tell me the movie, I'll tell you the 12-digit number.

A lot like Jim Quick. A lot like Jim Quick.

A lot like Jim Quick. And he's hysterical. He's like a great entertainer. And if you use it, you get to keep it. If you don't use it, you'll lose it. And so it's really, Important. Now, you know, we're probably not going to be remembering phone numbers because we have our auxiliary brains. But our auxiliary brains is causing Alzheimer's to be diagnosed three or four years later when it's actually harder to get help. Because I would diagnose people when I first started in practice 30 years ago because their family would call me up and they say he's getting lost. in a place he's lived in 30 years. But now you just have to go, Hey, Siri, take me home. Right. And so these auxiliary memories are actually causing people to be diagnosed later. We should always be working our brains. New learning is just absolutely essential. So Spanish is great. Learning a musical instrument is great.

A dance or whatever.

You know, if you know, producing stuff for television is great. It's a new skill. Marketing is a new skill.

Anything that challenges you.

Anything. And you should be doing things that are new and different. Like, I know how to read brain scans. Like, hopefully you'll come and I'll look at your brain. I'll know immediately. Healthy, not healthy.

How many people have been through your labs?

Well, we have done 183, 000 scans.

In how many years?

I have three. in 30 years. Wow. And we have 300 NFL players. I love what I do.

It's amazing.

I'm so grateful. I had no idea that when I decided to be a psychiatrist, this would happen. This would have been my life.

I'm very excited about your book. I was going through it. I'm a big fan already. Your brain is always listening. Tame the hidden dragons that control your happiness habits and hangups. There are some incredible exercises on how to deal with any type of struggle or stress that you might have in your life right now, whether it be addiction, whether it be negative thoughts, whether it be dealing with past traumas. You have the reasoning behind these things. You've got the exercises on how to overcome them. You've got everything in here, which is extremely powerful. You've got simple strategies. You've got more complex things. you've got graphics that explain stuff for me. So it's amazing. I think everyone should read this. Overcome Pain From youm Past. It's funny, I just did a video yesterday saying if you can learn to overcome the pain from your past, your life will be 100 times better just by that one simple thing. And this is something you teach in here through the science, through the research, everything you need in here to optimize your brain is here. Check it out, get the book, get a few for your friends. Your brain is always listening. Make sure you get this book. Couple final questions and then we'll wrap things up. This is a question I asked everyone at the end called the three truths question. So I'd like you to imagine a hypothetical situation. It's your last day on earth, many years away. You've accomplished all of your dreams and goals and you're happy and healthy and everything you want to do you've done. But for whatever reason, you've got to take all of your written work with you. your video work, your content, it's all going to go with you to the next place, wherever you go. And no one has access to your information anymore, but you get to leave behind three things you know to be true. Three lessons you would share with the world. And this is all we have to remember you by. I call it three truths. What would be three things you would share with the world?

Brain envy. Love your brain. Don't believe every stupid thing you think. Know what you want and ask yourself every day, does my behavior fit what I want? Yeah. People don't do that. It's crazy. They should be teaching this to seven-year-olds. What do you want? Relationships, school work, money, your health, what do you want? Is your behavior getting you what you want? Rather than say you should do this or you should do that, shoulds don't work. It's just getting people to know and then act. And if they have a healthy brain, it's easier.

I'm gonna acknowledge you for a moment before I ask the final question. The work you continue to do is so inspiring and it's helping so many people when they allow themselves to learn to apply it and take action. So I really acknowledge you for being so passionate about this work, for showing up for people's lives, for being someone that cares deeply about human beings, the quality of their life, improving their brain health, which is the quality of their relationships and everything. I just think we need more people like you. And I'm really grateful that you're alive, healthy, and driven on this mission because I think a lot more people would be suffering without you creating this work in a simple way, without you scanning people and getting the data that proves these things. So I really acknowledge you. And I'm grateful you're alive. I really am, because this stuff's really inspiring for me. Where else can we support you besides getting your book, following you on social media? Where else can we go if we want to learn more, if we want to take your courses, get supplements that can help our brains? Where should we go?

So the supplements, brainmd.com, to support your brain. Amen University, we have courses, Amen Clinics, I have nine clinics, I have a new clinic in Dallas, it's just crazy busy. Later this year we're going to open a new clinic in South Florida. And then my wife and I do podcasts together. We have 847 episodes.

Almost as big as this.

The brain warriors way. They're like 10 minute little inspirational pieces to get people excited. Because we need a brain health revolution. Because with that, we can end mental illness, but it's never gonna start with what we're doing now. We have to break the paradigm and create a new one. Yeah.

So all mental illness or most of mental illness is connected to brain health, would you say?

Yes.

All of it, unless there's some type of trauma that...

It's foundational. If your brain's not right, you're not right. And it doesn't mean psychological trauma won't have an impact. But if your brain's not right, plus psychological trauma, going to psychotherapy is not going to be as good as it could be.

Bright Minds. Everyone's got to apply the Bright Minds method. Okay, so we'll check out your podcast, the Brain Warriors Way podcast. We'll link up all this stuff. Make sure you guys check out brainmd.com and everything else. Get the book. Final question for you. What is your definition of greatness?

It's pushing to do what you know you can do despite what other people say.

Appreciate you very much. Thank you.

Thank you so much for listening to this episode. I hope it gave you a lot of clarity, a lot of wisdom and knowledge to help bridge the gap from where you are to where you want to be in your brain health. And if you enjoyed this, please share the message forward. so we can change lives together. You can copy and paste the link wherever you're listening to this or you can just use the show notes link with all the resources over there@lewis-howes.com/1121. And also, make sure to check out part one if you haven't listened to that one as well. Just click right back to the previous episode if you're on the podcast app on Apple Podcast or Spotify or wherever you're listening. And if this is your first time here, click the subscribe button over on Apple Podcast right now. so you can stay up to date on the latest and greatest on the School of Greatness. We've got over a thousand episodes from some of the biggest names in the world helping you unlock your inner greatness and we are going to have some incredible content moving forward here in the near future. So, make sure to click the subscribe button right now and stay tuned for more greatness coming soon. And I want to leave you with this quote from RuPaul who said, True wealth is having a healthy mind, body and spirit. wealth is having the knowledge to maneuver and navigate the mental obstacles that inhibit your ability to soar. Now is your time to soar in this life. We have so many different challenges and obstacles in our way, but more than ever, we have so much more research and tools and science and strategies to help us heal, evolve, improve and grow. And I hope this episode and this interview with Dr. Daniel Amen gave you some tools to support you. in your growth so that you can soar as well moving forward. I am so grateful for you. I'm so appreciative that you decided to take time today to improve the quality of your life. And if no one has told you lately, I wanna remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And you know what time it is? It's time to go out there and do something great.