https://www.listennotes.com/e/14428f1137e54bcd8f5afaa977bdf1c9

Finding love is not easy. It is hard. And that's okay. And the more we start to accept that it is hard, instead of expecting it to be easy or listening to people when they say, oh, it's gonna happen, it's like, no, it's hard. Matthew is a dating and relationships expert and coach. New York Times bestselling author. One of the most sought after dating and relationship experts in the world, Matthew Hussey. The right person for you is not the person you trick into being with you. Hiding your. The right person for you is the person who accepts the things you were terrified people wouldn't accept. Someone stops texting us or someone feels like they're drifting and all of a sudden our brain says, they must be important. You're treating me like crap and you text me and then you go cold and then I don't hear from you. You might be onto something.

You're the one for me. Why is it sometimes that women sabotage that potential really good relationship that is right in front of them?

Get into these patterns where we chase.

Well, I wanted to start this interview. I've got my friend Matthew Hussey here and a room full of beautiful individuals who are conscious learners, growers, creators. A show of hands again of people who are single just so we can see, I'm curious. I didn't know this was gonna be singles night, but once everyone knew Matthew Hussey was coming, they were like, we need help. Help us.

No shade, because I was on stage in 2019, I did a tour. Last time I toured and I was on stage in New York and there was someone in the audience, it was a packed theater and this one person, she stood up and she started talking about it being hard being single and not knowing whether she was ever going to meet the right person for her and the fears she had around that. And I said, I get it. Like, I get it. I understand that. I'm single too. And someone just shouted out in the audience, why are you single? And I went, haha. I was like, funny. Anyway, so, and then I went back to like do my thing. And someone went, no, seriously. Why are you single? And then in like almost like a chorus of people in the crowd started just saying, why are you, they wouldn't let me move on.

Wow.

So I have, I know if you're single right now, and there's that thing in the back of your mind that says, is it ever gonna happen for me? Is it ever gonna work for me? 2019, I was being just hounded on stage in front of a thousand people and not let off the hook for answering that question.

So what was the answer?

I said, i'm single for the same reason you're single. It didn't work out with somebody. You know, I had a plan.

It didn't work.

It didn't work.

It didn't work.

And it was heartbreaking. And, you know, so here I am. I haven't met that person yet. My wife is in the audience, in the top somewhere. I can't see her. But how much can change? How much can change in a couple of short years?

And it can change in an instant. I wasn't expecting to meet Martha when I met her, but looking back four years, I guess it'll be four years in June when we met, looking back four years, the day I met her, I did not know I would be getting married to this person four years later. Isn't that crazy? It's like it could be a moment where you meet someone and you don't know right before that moment that could be the person you're with.

It's mind-blowing. Crazy.

And all the singles, you might meet someone tonight. So afterwards, go hang out, you know? There could be singles outside afterwards, meet each other.

I met, I met, but it, but. It's true though.

I mean, it's happened at my events before.

I was, I went back for the holidays. It seems like every time I go back to Christmas, for the holiday, for London, for the holidays, something eventful happens. But I, I went back and a friend of mine, who I never hang out with, never see, barely spoken to in 10 years, asked me if I wanted to go to his engagement party in London. It was just held in like the basement of a pub in Hackney in London. And he said, you, want to come? And I didn't want to go. I don't like it takes a lot for me to want to do anything.

I know.

Like, I am an introvert through and through. I literally we were Me and my wife Audrey, we went to Disneyland yesterday. We had a half day played hooky for half a day from work. And we went over there and I was like, I already can't wait till we get home. I'm really excited about walking through the door again. So I'm that guy. And I didn't want to go and I ended up going. Meeting the love of my life at this party where I didn't really know anybody but a couple of old school friends that I'd never hang out with anymore. It's just crazy.

Years ago when you met your wife at this party, yeah.

That was 2019, yeah.

Yeah, crazy. You just never know. You didn't wanna go, you went and you allowed for opportunities to happen.

Yeah.

Well, I was at your wedding, what was that, about a year ago? Year and a half.

How long you been married now?

Should know the date, right?

I think it's a year and a half.

Okay, Audrey is that right? It's a year and a half ago? Yeah, year and a half, okay. So I was there. Me and Martha were there at your wedding. We were, I don't even know if we were engaged yet, but we were there. You were at my wedding, you know, six weeks ago. And Martha said that I could go on tour instead of our honeymoon. So now you're on stage with me instead of our honeymoon. And so I have a question for you. This is the first time that I've interviewed you. You've been on the show many times. The first time I've interviewed you since we've both been married.

Aww.

Here's my question for you. Now that you've been married for a while, what's been the greatest new lesson or revelation you've had about relationships since being married for about a year and a half?

I don't know about new, but more and more, I'm valuing the moments where I do something because I just really know that it makes her happy. So, like, she loves to walk around the neighborhood, and I've started to see that, like, she started doing just going and walking around the neighborhood. And I, it took me a minute to realize she really loves this. She keeps talking about it and she comes back in a good mood and she's like, I just love walking around our neighborhood. It's so great. I just love it so much. It just took me a minute to latch on to this. And then she would ask me and I'd be like, you go, I'm just doing some work. It never felt convenient to just go on and she never, we go and I'm like a dog who wants to turn back at a certain point, but she just keeps going for another block and another block. She tricked me into doing longer walks than I think I'm gonna do. But I came to realize this really means something to her. And so now it doesn't, whether it's convenient or not, the joy of just, the joy of knowing that this is something that really means a lot to her, is something that I take really, really seriously. Not just doing the thing when our needs kind of happen to intersect and produce an effortless moment. But doing something because when it's not convenient, because I know it's gonna mean something to her. The GottiMans have this idea about every time your partner says something to you or says, oh, there's this really great song, and you're like, but I don't like that song. So, you know, You kind of act disinterested or they're like, can I, you know, I just heard this great thing on a podcast. I heard them say this, I don't know where I heard it, but I just didn't forget it. They said, those are bids for attention. They're not really saying, like, it's not just come listen to this song. It's like, I want to show you something. It's show and tell. Like, I just want to show you this thing. And you're the person I wanted to show. I didn't call up my other friend and say, can I show you this song? I came to you as an excited person and said, can I show you this song? It's a bid. No, it wasn't a bid for attention. It was something. They call it a bid.

Yeah.

And I just, I didn't forget that, because then every time, there was something very beautiful about that to me. The idea that, oh, you're just, this is a bid.

I think it's a bid for connection.

A bid for connection.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

A bid for attention's worse. That sounds worse.

Yeah.

But bid for connection. And I just love that little idea, I think, was really beautiful to me. Because if you imagine a child coming over and saying, I want to show you this. There's something special about that child's excitement, and there's something special about the fact that they chose you to share it with.

Yeah.

And what do you do with that? And how do you, you know, are you always too busy to respond to that? I think that's a, I've definitely been that person in my life and I'm trying to be that person less.

That's cool. You have, you know, you coach, it seems like millions of women online who watch your content and you share content specifically for women, but for years I was watching your content just to learn how to improve my ability to be in relationship better. So it's not only for women, but most women love your content. And you have heard women share countless stories about their struggles of getting into relationships, those who have been in successful relationships as well. And I'm curious about your thoughts around wounds with money and entering a new intimate relationship and how not addressing your wound or anxiety or stress around money, how that can impact intimacy in an intimate relationship. What are your thoughts on that?

Well, if you're worried about something like that, it's showing up no matter whether you think you're hiding it, it's showing up, but they don't know what it's about. So that day that your anxiety is showing up, they're receiving that as probably something other than anxiety. They're receiving that as they're being a dick today. Like, why are you being such an asshole? Like, what's wrong with, like, why are you being so moody with me? Why are you so grumpy? Like, that's how that person is probably receiving that. They're not receiving it as fear. So you better explain those things, because otherwise your partner is going to be mad at you when the appropriate reaction to what you're going for is one of presence or comfort or love. There's some fear in us that says, if you find out about this debt that I have, you won't love me anymore. You know, if you find out that I've made really poor choices in the past for many years with credit cards and I've racked these bills and it's gonna take me a long time to pay them. You may no longer see me as a good candidate to be with.

So what happens when you hide that and then it comes out later?

Well, then you have two problems. So now you've had bad energy for a long time and they're now finding out about something where they feel blindsided by it.

If we've made poor decisions financially in our past, but we're afraid to share those with someone we just started dating, what's the best approach to take without being worried about this person leaving you?

The right person for you is not the person you trick into being with you by hiding your The right person for you is the person who accepts the things you were terrified people wouldn't accept. And of course, how we own those things is important. You know, if you come to the table as someone who's made mistakes, but you can own those mistakes, and you're not here, it's quite clear, I'm not here to saddle you with my mistakes. I take ownership of them and I'm working through those. But I want to start a relationship from a really honest place. This is something I'm working on. That's. That builds integrity in the relationship. But we're all afraid. We're all. We all have something that we think. If you know this about me, you won't. You won't love me. You know, I. us guys do it not just with money, we do it with all weakness. You know, whatever we think is our, you know, we've learned this idea of what we think an attractive man is and then we meet someone and more and more there's content out there online that tells you never to deviate from this ideal of what makes an attractive man and it always gets the ideal of what makes an attractive man wrong anyway. But it kind of gets in your head and it makes you feel like, now I can't voice this thing. I'm gonna be seen as weak. I'm gonna be seen as not powerful. I'm gonna be seen as flawed and gross and unattractive. And so we hold these things back. The hard part, I think, in dating and relationships is we're always trying to figure out where's the line between being vulnerable about my stuff and suddenly becoming this person who abdicates responsibility and is just trying to make you responsible for everything going on inside of me. That can feel like a hard thing to balance out. I think we have to be, if I bring my wife Audrey I'm an anxious person. I've like struggled with anxiety my whole life. And if I bring my wife anxiety too many days in a row, I check myself. Because I'm like, the first three times it was really nice that she comforted you. But the fourth time, it's like, or the fifth time or the eighth time, it's like, There's a lack of personal leadership in this now.

Ownership.

You're not being a teammate. My responsibility is not just a, it's not a relationship isn't just I get to lean on someone. It's I get to be a great teammate for someone. And we've become a great teammate by the energy that we bring to the relationship. So if I've brought negative or bad energy too many days in a row, at a certain point, I got to look at myself and say, forget my, you know, what's going on inside of me right now. Am I being a great teammate to my partner? There's obviously times in our lives where, you know, someone in our life passed away and we're gonna be the more vulnerable one in the relationship for a period of time. It's not about shaming ourselves for that, but. But being accountable for the teammate that we are, I think, is a very, very important thing. That's why when someone's, like, constant, if someone You know, many of us have experienced feeling jealous at some point, right? I'm jealous of my partner. I'm jealous that maybe they're particularly gorgeous and, you know, they're great with people and, you know, they go out and when they go out, we get anxious or we get insecure or whatever. It's not a crime to feel those things. But at a certain point, we have to say, what kind of teammate am I being in this relationship? What kind of teammate do I want to be to this person? Because if too many nights they were going out and we ruined their good time with our anxiety and our jealousy, that's because we're thinking all about ourselves. We're not thinking about how we'd be a great teammate to them.

Yeah, yeah. I'm curious here. How many, not everyone who's single wants to have a relationship at this moment in their life. And I think a lot of it is timing of where you're at personally, what you want to create. So not everyone who's single is like, needs to find someone. I don't think that's true. But I'm just curious, show of hands of the women who do want to find someone in their life right now who's open to a relationship or who wants love. I don't see that many hands up actually. You guys just want to be single out here in LA? Okay, I'm just checking. There's some. Show your hands to the guys too. I'm not gonna leave the guys out. Who here wants to, is open to.

A relationship in their life right now? Wait, did you say- Not that many. Was that question open to a rela-.

It wasn't, like, aggressively looking. It was just- who wants a relationship?

I don't know. It doesn't look that many. Everyone just wants to be- how many happened in the two- I switch it? No, 'cause there were a lot of hands for single. A lot of single.

And then all of a sudden, not a lot for open to a relationship. Wait, curious, how many are single again?

Raise your hand.

A lot of people are single.

Not 80% of the world. Okay, wait.

Now, how many of you have- I've.

Been put into a relationship. Okay, that was a bit- yeah, still not that much.

Interesting. It's LA, you know. This is the problem. So curious. For the 5% of people that raise their hand that are open and that want a relationship right now, What do you think is the biggest thing blocking them from attracting a healthy partner that could actually be someone good for them?

Not being vulnerable about wanting one in the first place. Ah. Well, there's a lot of shame in looking for love.

Why is that?

'Cause this feels like there's no winning. There's no winning. It's like I, You know, it sucks to date for a lot of us. It can feel really miserable dating, going on dates where there's no chemistry, and then there is a bit of chemistry, but it doesn't go anywhere. And then so you've got your hopes up, but now nothing. And these things happen to people enough times that it's like, it's easier to make myself not want this than it is to want this. So now I'm going to be someone who kind of pretends like they don't want it, even though deep down I feel like there's maybe some part of my life that, you know, it doesn't mean we're not whole, but maybe there's something that we'd like to happen.

Yeah.

We would like to meet someone or have, you know, someone in our lives. But then we, so we kind of hold back. And then people in our lives, they're at the Thanksgiving table, are like, so why aren't you married?

Are you single? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And you're like, well, 'cause I haven't met anyone. And so then you feel like, oh, I really should meet someone. But then you go out and you actually start making that claim, like, I wanna meet someone. And then everyone says, you,' sound a little desperate. You know, why are you trying so hard? It'll happen.

She's laughing at me. She's like, that's my life.

Expect it. Am I trying too hard? Am I not trying hard enough? Am I, you know, what is it? And this is the people are, people are like, they're frustrated and it can feel so thankless. And so then people just carry around this kind of shame for wanting something, for feeling like someone else holds the keys to this thing that I want. You know, if I want to go and make some money, it feels like I can own that. And by the way, it feels like a lot of it is in my control. I can decide if I want to make another sale today, I can pick up the phone 10 more times. But if I want a relationship, it feels like I can't just pick up the phone more times. I have to actually meet someone who wants the same things as I do, who's age appropriate, lifestyle appropriate. likes me back. There's so many things contained in that. So of course everyone's, you know, having a hard time. It is hard. It is hard. Finding love is not easy. It is hard. And that's okay. And the more we start to accept that it is hard, instead of expecting it to be easy, or listening to people when they say, oh, it's gonna happen, Like, no, it's hard. It is hard. How many of you can spend the rest of your life with one single friend in the same bed? Like, the reason you do better with friends is because you can swap them out when they piss you off. And you can put that one on timeout and hang with this one, come back to them in a week. I'm so sick of them. Like, you can do that and we expect a lot less from our friends. But now you're choosing someone that apparently you're going to spend the rest of your life with this person. What's easy about that? That is not easy. So for those of you that have struggled, welcome to a very large and very beautiful club of very wonderful people who have also found this not to be a simple part of their lives. And half the people you're comparing yourself to when you are single and you're like, that person found love and that person found love and that person found love, in five or 10 or 15 years, they won't even be in that relationship. So be very careful who you're comparing yourself to. I always think it's crazy when Bill Burr just made this joke, but I made this joke like 10 years ago. I am on like Drew Barrymore or something and someone comes out and they're like, these people have been married for 25 years and everyone's like, that's amazing. I deal with so many people who became happier and more at peace the day they left a 20-year marriage. The marriage was the bad part. And it's now that they had the courage to leave. That's the good part.

They feel free.

I'm as happy when someone walks up to me in the street and says, I left someone because of you, as I am with the person who says, I found someone because of you. Like, if you, by the way, no, like someone could say, I found someone because of you, and I can say, amazing. I don't know where there'll be a year from now. I don't know if that person they just decided was the love of their life that they met four weeks ago is going to turn out to be a complete malignant narcissist. Like, I don't know. So I'm happy for them, but I'm also like, we'll see.

Good luck.

But when the per. But when someone comes to me and says, you. I watched your videos over a period of weeks or months, and they finally gave me the courage to leave. I know that person changed their life. I know that person changed their life. Because if they've been thinking about that for a long time and it was making them miserable and something was keeping them glued to a very unhappy situation, that wasn't an impulsive decision. That was something they thought long and hard about. It just took them a very, very long time to get to a place where they were able to follow through with it.

Yeah, just because you're in a long-term relationship doesn't mean you're living a rich life. doesn't mean you have love in your life because you're in a relationship. And it also doesn't mean you have to stay, but it also doesn't mean you have to leave. It's like there still needs to be work either way. You could leave a relationship and feel free, but if you haven't done the healing journey in the work, you might attract someone similar and repeat the pattern and be just as painful until you start to heal, create boundaries, use your voice, speak up, make sure you're in alignment, have the courageous conversations, all these things that we don't like to do when it's easy and it's fun in the first month or two.

And you could meet the love of your life and then lose them three years later. That happens too. Someone gets an illness and like that, you thought you found the thing you'd always been looking for and then you lost that person. That happens too. So, you know, anything can happen in life. And this idea of am I ahead, am I behind, you're not behind. Life doesn't work like that. One of my heroes, a guy I loved was Anthony Bourdain. Loved Anthony Bourdain. And I would watch Parts Unknown and I just, I loved that show. he made us want to travel, he made us want to eat new food, he infused life into the things he touched. And there's something about that story that always stays with me because he was, I think, at 43, he was broke, working in the back of a kitchen, struggling. He was in his 40s. My publisher at HarperCollins happened to be the person who gave him his advance for his first book, Kitchen Confidential.

Wow.

Karen Rinaldi, she was the one who gave him that advance to write Kitchen Confidential. In his 40s, that book exploded. And all of a sudden, he was this wanted person. And then he made shows. You know, there was a show before Parts Unknown, no reservations. He made no reservations. and then made a ton of episodes of that. Then went, and then Parts Unknown sent him into a whole other world of fame and notoriety. And he inspired people because at 57, I think some, I think it was 57 or maybe, yeah, it was in his 50s, he took up jiu-jitsu. Wow. Brazilian jiu-jitsu. And there was all these men who were like, oh my God, I've been giving myself all these excuses that I'm too, it's too late for me to do a sport like that. It's too late for me to do something like that with my body. I'm not in good enough shape. I'm not. Well, this is a ex addict who was not in good shape for half of the shows he ever shot and suddenly took up Jiu-Jitsu and so now he's not just an example of someone who in his 40s was broke. How many people tell themselves, by 40, if I haven't made money by now, I'm. It's never going to happen for me. It's too late. for me. He's in his 40s and makes a name for himself and makes money and all of a sudden he's in a different place. He's in his 50s and takes up Brazilian jiu-jitsu, a time when most people say it's too late to take up another sport, especially one as demanding as jiu-jitsu. And then he takes his life. What is ahead or behind? Was he like, at 43, I'm behind if he measured his success in life like that. I'm famous and I'm rich now, I'm ahead. But then someone takes their life. How far ahead were they? That to me is kind of become, I call them emotional buttons. It's become an emotional button for me for this idea of ahead and behind and how much we obsess over that and how much it makes us insecure. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't, like, there's certain things we have to be aware of, like what our options are. There's a reason, there's a reason I wrote a whole chapter in my book called the Question of Having a Child, because for many people out there, if they don't consider what happens if I don't meet the person that I want to be with within my biological window to have children, and my dream is to have children, right? That adds a whole other layer. to this thing. So now like you have men going, why are women in there? You know, why are women so like in a rush? I'll tell you why. Imagine for a guy. So imagine for men out there, imagine someone said to you, you have five more years to make money. And if you don't do it in five years, you lose the option forever. How chill do you now feel starting this business?

Yeah, yeah, I see.

Do you feel all relaxed about these sales calls you're making? Of course not.

You feel needy.

You feel like, I gotta do it, I gotta do it, I gotta do it now. Why are you on the phone to me if you're not gonna buy? I got five years. That's the reality for so many people.

That's a good analogy.

So, you know, I wrote a chapter on that because I was like, not telling ourselves we're behind is not the same thing as burying our head in the sand. We have to know our options. We have to know if Plan A doesn't happen, what's my Plan B? And at any point, I have to be willing to make Plan B the new Plan A. That's happiness. Happiness is when you have the superpower to always know if Plan B is what I do, how do I make Plan B the new Plan A? If Plan C is what I resort to, how do I make Plan C the new Plan A? If you have that skill, you're set. You're invincible.

Wow. Why do you think I'm going to speak for women? because this is a lot of you coach a lot of women. Why do you think when there's a very reasonable or available man that meets the standards of a woman in front of them, that they're on a date with or they're dating, why is it sometimes that women sabotage that potential really good relationship that is right in front of them?

If they meet a good guy, they.

Meet a good guy, they've gone on some date, there's no red flags, there's no ick, and there's like, Here's a guy, he's got a job, he's kind, he's groomed, he's healthy, he's, you know, he can pass some funny, he's got, you know, maybe he's not Superman, but he's got a good package, right? Why do, literally and spiritually, why do women sabotage when there's a good man in front of them?

The question can be applied equally across the genders. And we all, I know I've sabotaged potentially wonderful relationships before. Almost did it with the relationship that, you know, turned out to be my marriage. I almost, like, screwed that up. And we have to look at what's.

Why do you think you almost screwed it up?

We get into these patterns where we chase the wrong things. I can't take credit for that phrase. My wife, Audrey, loves that phrase, and I got addicted to it too because it's such a great phrase. This idea that if you chase the wrong things, it might be fun sometimes. But until you start chasing the right things, that chasing the wrong things will always loop you back to where you started. And, you know, I. I got to the point as a single person where I realized this is not. This is not as fun as it. You know, this has become a kind of drug of its own. And what am I really chasing here? Does it leave me feeling. better at the end of it? Does it leave me feeling more anxious? In my case, it actually left me feeling more anxious. It left me feeling worse about myself. And I think in some ways the longer we take to find our person, I don't believe in the one, but I do believe in our person, because it's a very different thing. The longer we take, I think some of us, we have to now justify all the people we said no to. Because if I'm going to go for this person, then why did I say no to those people? They were great in these ways too. And so we kind of, we're chasing this idea we have in our mind of something instead of being present with who is in front of us. and what's actually unfolding in front of us. What I wasn't paying attention to at the beginning of meeting my wife was that I felt like I was home. And that isn't, that's a subtly different feeling. I felt like I was home. I could truly be myself. I felt genuinely accepted and not judged. And it was a kind of an unfamiliar feeling. I don't know that I was fully ready for that feeling.

It almost felt unsafe because it was so safe.

Yeah, it felt unsafe. We had an argument at the beginning of our relationship where we weren't even in a relationship yet, I don't think. But we had an argument where she started talking about some other guy. Oh. And it got under my skin. And then I was an about it. Like I was not.

You weren't even committed yet.

Huh?

You weren't even in a committed relationship.

Were we?

Oh, you were.

You were.

She said, yeah.

Yeah. Okay, we were. She started talking about someone and I, it got like, my ego flared up.

Uh-huh.

My ego flared up. And then I, started being really cold and quiet. I didn't say anything for ages. And she was the one making all the conversation. And at a certain point, she was like, what's going on? And I was like, nothing. Because of what am I going to tell her? I'm not going to tell her at this early stage that I got insecure about a guy I don't even know. And that that somehow on some deep level has made me feel threatened. And how now I feel like I could get hurt in this and it's robbed me of some kind of power that I must have been holding on. I'm not going to tell you all of that because now you even have even more potential to hurt me. I'm not going to give you all of that now. I once had a relationship where I told someone like I I I I debated all night whether to tell an insecurity that I was feeling.

Really?

And then I did at the end of the night. This was a different relationship. At the end of the night, I spoke an insecurity, and she looked at me and she said, I find that... I went, what? She goes, I just didn't know that you felt like that. I find that unattractive. Oh. How? It was the what? one of the most horrendous. Yeah.

Like, it's your biggest fear.

Yeah, I was like, it, for me, I didn't want to say it. I wasn't gonna say it. So then I was like, why did I say it? Brene Brown.

Vulnerability is strength.

If this doesn't work for men, be vulnerable.

Yeah.

I find that unattractive. That's why you have so many up guys in the world now, and they follow other up guys, and they're all in their little circle of doing everything wrong because they got hurt. They're hurt. They just hurt people who have decided that the best way to deal with that hurt is to armor up and to hate everyone and to hate women and think that you're all against us. And look, I had a little moment in that moment where I was like, Never doing that again.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

That's the last time I ever do that. And then I met Audrey and when I felt insecure about this person, I was quiet and passive and then passive aggressive and quiet. And she eventually like wringed it out of me because she's too perceptive and nothing gets by this woman. Nothing. And I eventually, after her having to drag it out of me, I eventually said it. And then I hated that I said it because I had that thought in my head. Well, there you go. And then, so she got it out of me and then I went cold all over again. Because now I was like ashamed.

Really?

Why did I say that? Now she's gonna think, now I'm not gonna, I'm not that attractive guy, I'm not Mr. Alpha, I'm not blah, blah, blah. All of this is happening, it's not like I'm verbalizing this to myself, but this is what's happening. And I'm supposed to not seem threatened, I'm supposed to be bulletproof, I'm not supposed to get threatened by another person like that. And then I said that it had, like, I was like, I wish I hadn't said that, 'cause now you're gonna think this. And she was like, what? She was like, I'm like, I love, firstly, it doesn't change how attracted I am to you at all. I'm so attracted to you, my God. And the fact that you told me that, it's just, I love it because I get to know, I know you better. I get to know you better. It doesn't change anything. It just, I love knowing you better. And if something's on your mind, I want you to share it with me because I want to be able to, like, talk, you know, I want to share why you don't need to worry about that. We had to go through so much that day to get to that little moment. And in a hundred other early dating phases with other people, that would have been the end of the relationship. That would have been it because someone would have not got it out of me and I would have never said anything and I just would have held on to it and it would have eroded the relationship or they get it out of me, but then I don't feel safe with that person from their reaction. And so I now back off. or, you know, there's so many ways that moment can go wrong. And in this relationship, what was normally a moment where it would go wrong was a very healing moment for me. And she's had her own moments like that. And we chase these things that feel off, 'cause it's what we know and it feels familiar and it's, you know, you're texting me back. This person's not texting me back. I feel like this is a little more interesting.

She's laughing at everything that's wrong because she's been through it all, right? And she's like, I know all this too well.

There's a, you know, some of that is trauma, some of it is our brain making this false calculation that if something is rare, it must be more valuable. Non sequitur when it comes to relationships. Someone being more rare makes them more valuable. We, you know, it's like when you walk past a nightclub, if they just let you in, I haven't been to a nightclub in many years, I'd say this. But you know, like when you used to walk past a nightclub, if they like, yeah, you can come in, you were like, but the one you walk by and there's a guy with a list and he looks at you and he's like, what's your name? And you go, oh, we're not on it. He goes, well, I'm sorry, we got a A line here, you go, we need to be in there. Some going on in there. Nothing's going on in there. There's a bunch of people sitting at boring VIP tables, paying too much for drinks. There's no great Bacchanalian love fest going on back there that you must be part of. It's a nightclub. But the way they get you into that nightclub is to make it seem like it's really, really hard to get in. And we take that, those economic dynamics into our love life and someone stops texting us or someone feels like they're drifting and all of a sudden our brain says, they must be important. You like me? What's wrong with you? You're treating me like crap and you're in and out of my life and you text me and then you go cold and then I don't hear from you. You might be onto something.

You're the one for me. Yeah, yeah.

This is what happens for so many of us and we have to, so much of it is retraining our instincts. Our instincts are not, we have to be very careful with the idea that we like trust your instincts. Your instincts will get you killed. In a boxing match, you were showing UFC in a boxing match. With an inexperienced person getting in the ring. Do you know what the instinct is when a punch is thrown at their head? Duck. It's not duck. You blink. If you're not used to punches coming at you and a punch comes your way, people blink. People go blind. in the exact moment they need to see. Because the appropriate response for a trained fighter is to slip the punch or parry. What are our bad instincts in our love lives? We all have them. You pull away from me, I chase. I get scared, I shut down. I had a woman that I worked with, you know, she was all going great with this person. And then one day he had a, this was like a few dates in, a few weeks in maybe, he had a barbecue with his friends on a Saturday. Didn't invite her. And she was like, so hurt. And it brought up everything for her, all of her deepest fears of abandonment and not being good enough. And he wasn't proud of her and so on. But it was It was very early. And she said to him, in the middle, firstly she was like, I'm ignoring it. I'm ignoring the fact that you didn't invite me. I'm just ignoring it, I'm ignoring it, I'm ignoring it. Because that was her first pattern. Her instinct is something's bothering me, go quiet, don't dare say it. Then in the middle of the day, when he was at this barbecue, it ate her up so much that she could not say something. So then her other instinct came out. which was a kind of like barbed way of speaking. So she went, why didn't you invite me to your barbecue? She texted him that in the middle of the barbecue. Why didn't you invite me? And he said, oh my God, I'm so sorry. These are old friends. I haven't seen them in a while. I was just getting together with them. Can I call you afterwards? Now she's ashamed. She feels vulnerable. She feels like she's let her guard down. She's shown him how much she likes him. I asked, like she played her hand. The same way I did when I said that thing made me jealous. She played her hand. Why didn't you invite me? The subtext is, I like you and I wanted to be invited. I've now played that card. And now I hate you for making me play that card. So when he said, Can I call you later? She said, Don't bother. Three days later, she was talking to me and saying, what should I do? He hasn't called.

He said, Don't bother.

But we can all look at that and see what that was. None of us know why she didn't get invited to the barbecue. We don't know. Neither did she. But her instinct in that moment sabotage the situation before anything could ever really take root. And we all have our version of that.

Yeah, I don't even know if that's instinct or if that's just wounds.

Yeah, but our wounds create our instincts, right? So if you got hurt at some stage in your life, a survival instinct was created. If you do something today, we all do these things, right? Something something will upset you, it will make you anxious, it will make you depressed, or you'll have a reaction to something going on in your life that will, that you'll kind of hate yourself for, because you'll be like, why am I like this? Why am I like this? And that becomes fuel for hating ourselves. Why can't I just be like everybody else? Why can't I just handle life as well as Lewis Howes? Why don't I Deal with this well. Why did I sabotage it? And then we beat ourselves up. The truth is, what we're doing right now is normal for someone like us to do. We are not broken. Something happened. We went through something. We've had a certain kind of a life. We have a certain kind of a brain. There is some cocktail of things that mean that you are the kind of person that in this situation reacts like this. That doesn't deserve your hatred, that deserves your compassion. What happened that I created this as a survival instinct?

I think both men and women create that survival instinct based on breakups, pains, people hurting them, lying to them, cheating on them, whatever it might be.

Things.

You mentioned the relationship you were in where someone said that, you know, they couldn't receive you from sharing a vulnerability before. And I was in a relationship at one time where I can't remember what I was going through. I was going through some hard moment and I was like barely crying. It wasn't like I was like weeping or bawling or something, but I was like kind of crying and like just a little, a little tear barely. And the person looked at me and started laughing at me. And I remember I was like, I was just trying to stay in the moment. I was like, man, I'm just kind of going through a lot right now. I just felt overwhelmed. It was just kind of like a little tear. Just like one tear. It wasn't even like crying in the fetal position. It wasn't like this weak moment. It was just like a little tear. And they were like, I know I'm supposed to think this is okay, but you look really weak. And imagine the, just like you had with whatever that that moment was. And that was her belief. It was like, okay, I can't ex, I know I'm supposed to accept you for having a vulnerable moment, but you look weak. And, you know, men and women probably both have their ways of not accepting the partner they're with or they're dating based on a vulnerability or an insecurity or a weakness or whatever it might be. and I think until we're able to start processing and healing, like that could have scarred me and just been like, I'm never gonna show weakness or a tear again with a woman, ever. And I could have leaned easily into a belief system showing vulnerability means someone doesn't accept me. I'm not lovable. I'm not enough. No one's ever gonna be in a relationship with me, whatever might be, which would then I would start aligning a behavior that just says, I'm gonna stuff it. I'm never gonna show my emotions. I'm just gonna act like I gotta put it together and then never be able to be open and truly connect with my heart. And so it could have conditioned me to harden my heart. Luckily, years of therapy allowed me to keep it open. But I think it's like both men and women have, you know, a lot of shifting to be able to receive someone's vulnerabilities. And why do you think today there are certain women that can't see a man be vulnerable without thinking they're weak and they're not gonna be able to show up for me? And vice versa, there's certain men that maybe can't handle when a woman they're dating is emotional for a moment or going through a hard time and they're like, toughen up, I can't handle these emotions. why is that seem to be prevalent in society today?

Sometimes we can't give people what we don't allow ourselves. So someone's weak, you see someone crying and you're like, pull it the f*** together, what's wrong with you? But that's also the voice you use for yourself. That's why you make yourself so miserable. you're making this person miserable now for the same reason you make yourself miserable. So there's a lot of that. You know, a lot of people didn't.

Have.

They didn't have modeled for them what a great partner looks like. You know, they grew up with a role model or a caregiver that made them feel like you had to chase in order to get love. You had to do everything right in order to get love. And even then, that love was highly capricious. So you could have it, but then at any moment it could be taken away from you. And so now you're the person in a relationship who, you know, it's like a nice Sunday, and the other person's been quiet for too many minutes in a row. And you say, are you mad at me? And they go, what? What do you mean? And you say, I feel like you're mad at me. Is everything okay? And they go, yeah, I'm fine. Everything's good. so nothing's wrong. No, everything's fine. Okay, you're sure you're not mad. I'm not mad at you. So now, now, like, this situation starts to get created, and now they're getting a little impatient, and you feel that impatience, and now your fight or flight kicks in. Oh, no, here it comes. So these patterns are deep. They're deep. A lot of people hear messages about self-love and self-compassion, and I actually think that so much of the message around self-love and self-compassion is so vague as to not be helpful. It's like everyone says, you, have to love yourself. How? Tell me. Give me tools for that. What does that actually look like? Many people don't have a good answer when you ask them that. But there are practical ways to love yourself. And one of the great ways to love yourself is to realize that because of your survival instincts, because of what you've been through, because of the things that have always happened in your life, you have certain beliefs about what is possible. We think that the results we've gotten so far in life are all that's possible for us. Because if something else was possible, why didn't it happen? If it didn't happen, then it must be because I'm not good enough and it must be because I'm not capable enough. That's just not for me. Which is why we can see other friends making money or getting into great relationships. And it's in theory that would give us reference points for the fact that it could happen for us too, because it happened to my friend. But we exceptionalize ourselves and say, no, no, but not with me. I'm not worthy of that. Why do you say you're not worthy of that? Well, it's never happened for me. If this is all I've ever gotten, this must be all I'm worth. If I was worth more, I would have gotten something more, but I'm not, so I must not be worth more. So we get locked in this level that we've set for ourselves, our results today are not a reflection of our capabilities or our worth. Our results today are just a reflection of our patterns. And our patterns are a result of the instincts we've developed to cope with the things we have been through in our lives. Very hard to change. Very hard to change those patterns. Therefore, the starting point when we exhibit a pattern, either on our own or with other people that doesn't serve us or sabotages us, the starting point for that is a kindness that we offer to a person. How awful that you've been through things that have led to this... A door closes too loudly and you do this. How awful that something has happened in your life that has meant you wake up three times in the night wondering if someone's in the house. How awful that that's something that you have with you. You didn't get... The last time you got anxious, did you decide to get anxious?

No.

Something happened and like that, you got anxious. You didn't choose it. If you had a light switch, you could just go, no more anxiety. You would hit that light switch now. So this feeling, this thing, this reaction happened to you. It was instantaneous. That deserves compassion. And, but what we can do, the act of self, if I said to you, what's the practical way you can love yourself? Here's one. When that happens to you, we can stop and say, Look, I know from everything you've experienced in your life that it's really hard for you to see past the things you've already experienced. If you've been cheated on in the last five or relationships is really hard for you to see beyond this idea that the opposite sex are unfaithful or the same sex are unfaithful. Like it's really hard for you to get there. I know you have a limited perspective. I know that you don't believe you can make money easy because of how hard it's always been for you. I get it. I don't expect you to be able to see over the hill. But the kindness, the self-love, the self-compassion comes from being almost like a wiser voice. You can picture it as like a voice from the future, like you 10 years from now who's aware of things you've done and experienced that are different from what you've experienced before that are going to give you a different perspective. Isn't that true already from 10 years ago? You've experienced things you didn't think you would experience. You've broken certain barriers you didn't think you would break. So almost imagine like this wise voice from your own future coming back, realizing that you're talking to someone who you can't convince logically that something new is possible. Like this thing, this result is possible. But they don't have to believe that the result is possible. They have to believe that it's possible to do something slightly different than what they're doing right now. And that by doing that, a new thing will happen. What it is, we don't know. It might be good. It might be bad. Let's say that woman at the barbecue instead called him up that night and was like, so I've been on a bit of a journey for the last 24 hours. Emotionally. And I'm so embarrassed to say this, but I kind of wish you'd invited me to that barbecue. What if she did that? Maybe it goes well, maybe it doesn't, but something different will happen than what normally happens in her life. And different is the goal. Different is the goal. Because, because, because, because, if something different happens, it messes with your idea that the only thing that does happen is the thing that's always happened. Suddenly, you're like, that different thing happened. It's like inception. Something different can happen. That may not have been the bullseye, but something different happened. Someone was a little kinder, or someone spoke to me in a different tone of voice, or the car crash happened slower than it normally does, or like whatever it may be, something different happened. And so the great gift we can give ourselves in breaking our patterns is curiosity. Curiosity is the gateway to new beliefs. Become an experimenter in your own life. Experiment. Just go, what happens if I do this slightly differently than I normally do? And watch it produce just a slightly or vastly different result. And all of a sudden, you'll realize how big life is. All of a sudden, you realize that the the way that you have told yourself life is, is one tiny fraction of the way that life is based on everything you've been doing so far. Lewis, since the day I met him, is one of the most giving people I have ever met. I have a very generous heart and was terrified for most of my life of being taken advantage of. And that closed me down. So I would be very afraid to give in situations where I would see Lewis give a lot. And I know in Lewis's life, there have been many cases where that's meant he's been taken advantage of. So the very thing that I was most afraid of actually happened. to you a lot or in certain cases. And I would be like, I am always, curiosity is my lens for everything. So I'm like, well, so wait, wait, but what if you give and you do that thing for that person, but then they like screw you over. And he was like, well, I mean, they might, it could happen. I'll just be careful, give, you know, I'll know who they are at that point. and then, you know, with them, I won't be as giving in the future. I went, fascinating. But last week, you did actually get screwed over. Like, surely you're like, no, I'm never doing that again. And he was like, I mean, it happens, you know, that person did that to me. And, you know, it's like, taught me a lesson about that person. But, you know, I don't want to close down myself. And, like, I was like, every time I asked him these questions, I saw where Lewis went right when I went left. And here's what's hard, like in a good way, here's what's hard about that is when you see someone going right where you go left and in a certain area that you want to improve in or get results in, they're doing better than you. I was like, Lewis is crushing it in ways I'm not. And he keeps going right where I go left. And he's not, it's not like Lewis does it and no one ever takes advantage of Lewis. No, the thing that I'm afraid of does happen to Lewis.

Yeah, it does.

But his way of recalibrating is different from my way of recalibrating. And that was, then I'm like, I'm gonna try this.

Yeah.

And you've changed me in that way. You've changed me in that way. And it's, that has been a, real watching you is one of the great things about being close to great people is that there are these lessons that you learn where you and you they go right, you go left. You can do that with people in your own life. Ask them a million questions about how they make decisions and you will find ways like on a date. What do you do when that happens on a first date? Well, I do this and I do that. Oh, And you're like, well, for me at that point, the date would have been over. But then this person has a much better dating life than you do. Or this person's actually in a really happy relationship. And you're like, oh, how interesting. These little distinctions, they matter so much. And that's when I said at the beginning of this whole session, you have taught me, I've learned so much from you. I really mean that. But it's because when I see someone someone running in an area where I can barely walk. I really want to know how do you do it differently than I do? And the last thing I need to let Louis talk, I'm talking way too much. The last thing I just want to say about this because I feel for completion it's really important. Don't beat yourself up when you do that and you do it as well as the person who you're modeling. I can tell you now, I will always be a more anxious person than Lewis Howes. I'm never going to be Lewis. He's always going to be, there are going to be areas of life where he is a black belt and I have to struggle just to get by. That's always going to be the case in certain ways. But you don't need to get all the way to that person in order to get the result. You can change the entire trajectory of your life. I can change the entire trajectory of my life by being 10% or 5% more like Lewis in that department. beat yourself up that you can't get all the way over there. There are some areas you never will. They haven't been through the same you have. You haven't been through, you haven't had the same life. So you can't make that comparison. But you can, you can take a few percentage points and those percentage points radically change your life.

That's beautiful. That's beautiful. Love that. Thanks, man. Appreciate it. I've got two final Quick questions for you. The first one is, I had everyone do this exercise here, so my first one is, what are two things you're grateful for today?

Oh, we're in the audience. My wife Audrey is here and my brother Stephen Hussey is here. And for me, it's all relationships. I don't know if there's a documentary everyone in this room should whether you're a fan of South Park or not, it doesn't matter. There's a documentary called Six Days to Air. I think it's called Six Days to Air. And it follows Trey Parker and Matt Stone in the making of an episode of South Park. Where is this? Netflix, Amazon, where is it? Oh, God, it could be... Now it might just be on Amazon somewhere. But old documentary, but it's a very inspiring documentary. There was a moment where Trey Parker gets asked, both of them get asked. You say a lot of things that are cancelable in a world that has been canceling a lot of people. How do you continue to be brave and just say whatever you want to say in these episodes? And they said, We always have the fishing rods in the car. Anytime, we're always ready. Any episode, we might go one step too far, and they take us off the air, the fishing rods are in the car, the bags are packed, and we're gonna go to a lake and buy a house and fish, and we'll be just as happy. Like, the. And. And that idea of the fishing rods, it really stuck with me. Like, what are your fishing rods? I. For me, the. My fishing rods, like, two of them are sat right there. Like whatever happens, if I burn down on stage right now, if my career is over, if the business doesn't work out, I am like the people in my life, I'm so, so, so lucky for the love that I have in my life. The fishing rods are in the car. Like I could go, at any point, I could leave this life and go to a life that is extraordinary.

That's beautiful. That's beautiful. Speaking of beautiful relationships, what final question for you? What is the thing you love the most about your wife, Audrey, that has supported you in becoming a better version of yourself by being with her?

Someone, a friend of Audrey's, once said to her, the way that you love people, makes them into a version of themselves they could not have been without you in their life. Shakespeare once wrote of false staff, that false staff, not just a, not just a wit, but a cause of wit in others. Not just a wit, but a cause of wit in others. By the way, that's a wonderful lesson for all human Dynamics.

If.

If you want to be more interesting, make other people feel more interesting. If you want to be funnier, find other people funnier. You know, be someone who is in full staff's case, not just a whip, but a cause of wit in others. My wife is not just a loving person. She has made me a more loving person. She has changed the way that I love by the way that she loves me.

Wow.

And that has enabled me to love other people in a much braver way and in a much more pure way. So thank you.

That's beautiful. That's beautiful. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you, and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you, if no one has told you lately that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.

Thank you.