Jada Pinkett Smith Reveals All: Family, Relationships, Loss & Light

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When it came to those suicidal thoughts, yes, something needed to die, but it wasn't me physically.

What was it?

It was the thoughts around myself, how I felt. about myself that I had to rehabilitate. Wow. That I'm still rehabilitating.

Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. this podcast is sponsored by Northwestern Mutual. Everyone wants to feel good about their finances, right? Well, that's why I've had life insurance with Northwestern Mutual for years. Their financial professionals ask the right questions, truly listen, and help uncover opportunities most people miss. I've seen it firsthand. Northwestern Mutual has been a part of my journey from the very beginning, providing the security and peace of mind I need as a human and an entrepreneur. Find a better way to money@nm.com, the Northwestern Mutual Life Insurance Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Paid testimonial by a Northwestern Mutual policy owner.

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Right.

Talking about decades of depression, stress, anxiety. But on the outside, everything looks like you've got it put together and things are perfect and you're succeeding at the highest level.

Yeah.

But on the inside, you were facing a lot of depression and what sounds to be a lot of darkness.

Yeah.

I'm curious, how can someone with that much success, fame, money, and what seems like the perfect marriage and family dynamic struggle so much internally, how does it get to that place?

Yeah. And, you know, I think one of the biggest false perceptions is that all of those exterior things can heal, you know, your traumas, you know, can heal what's happening on the inside. I thought the same thing. I asked myself the same question. How can you have all this going on for yourself and feel like this, right? And I felt so much shame about it, which compacted what was happening to me. And everybody else around me was asking the same question. What is wrong with you? You have everything, right? And so I tell a story when I'm 21 and how I basically have a nervous breakdown. That was the first time where I was so overwhelmed by these dark emotions that came over me that those suicidal thoughts just flooded in. And I thought that-- I remember having to call my mother and said, Mommy, get out here now, or I'm gonna kill myself. -SHANNON: Wow. -JUANITA: you: know? And my mother at that time was fresh in her-- She was fresh in her recovery, right? And so she had to figure out a couple of things, you know, as far as work, 'cause she, you know, she's just getting on her feet. She's nursing, what have you. So then I called my girlfriend, MC Light, and I said, Light, I need you right now. I don't feel safe- Wow. -with myself.

You're 21 at this point.

I'm 21 at this point. And Light came out immediately just to hold me down until my mother could get there. And I, from that point on, never really-- you- know, during that time, no one was really talking about, first of all, suicide, surely not in a Black community. That is like, so what? It's like, toughen up and-- yeah, like get it together. And it just wasn't heard of. It's like, oh, you-- you-- then you.

Really belong in the cuckoo house.

You know what I mean? -DEPRESSION WAS NOT TALKED ABOUT. -DEPRESSION WAS NOT TALKED ABOUT. you know? And it's so funny how it shows up in our community. Like I always tell people, like, you know, that angry black woman syndrome that people talk about. I said, nah, that's a lot of despair. That's a lot of despair that anger basically comes into the picture because it's the anger that keeps you going, right? Because you can't go into the despair because the despair will take you out. Right? We don't have that luxury, 'cause we gotta put food on the table. We gotta keep it moving, right? And so, you know, for a lot of us who are single moms or what have you, and so-- I'm not a single mother, so I shouldn't say.

A lot of us.

I'm thinking about my mother and my experience of being raised by a single mother, right? And so, you know, and for me, I think that I had a lot of that, and I have a lot of that, which is why even to this day, it's very difficult I was talking to somebody the other day, and they were like, you, have a lot of PTSD and a lot of trauma. And I said, you know, it's still very difficult for me to, like, embrace that as true. You know what I mean? And so I just was in so much denial. and I felt like how you felt and how many people feel, which is like, get it together. You have everything. How dare you? And not only that, look at all these people who are still in the struggle. They don't feel like this.

And they don't have what you have.

They don't have what you have. How dare you? Right.

So it's almost more shame.

It's more shame. Right? And so, and it took me years to realize that doesn't have anything to do with it.

Wow.

You know, but, I struggled and beat myself up for a long time to the place that I just got to like, it, I want out.

Out of what?

Out of life. Wow. I don't want to be here anymore.

How old are you then?

40. My 40th year.

40? So I just turned 40 this year.

Yes.

So your 40th was like essentially two decades of stress, anxiety, depression, shame, overwhelmed, guilt, but also on the outside looking like you had it all together. You know, all the success and the relationship and the fame and movies and TV and all these different things, right?

Yes.

So 40 was a time where you felt like I want out of all of it.

All of it again, 'cause I had been struggling with suicidal thoughts for a long time. And...

But you never thought about actually attempting it?

Well, I think at 40, I was just like, okay, I got my plan. You know, I started looking at, like, where I could, 'cause I didn't want my kids to think that I had taken my life. So I was like, how do I plan an accident?

That's crazy.

You know? And I was like just looking for, like, cliffs.

Wow.

You know, looking for places that I could just drive my car off of. And I was like, All right, it's gotta be high enough that I don't survive, you know? And so once I devised my plan, I was like, okay, as morbid as that sounds, having a plan gives you, like, okay, let me see what tomorrow looks like. 'Cause I got my plan.

Wow.

You know? And when I turned 40, It was like, I never imagined reaching 40.

Really?

Never imagined reaching 40. So not only was I dealing with all this depression, what have you, but I didn't see a vision for my life past 40. It was just blank.

Interesting.

I had no drive. I had no desire. And I was just like, and when I tell you, like, I would look down that road of like, okay, What is life for you now? When I tell you I saw nothing, and that was scary too.

Wow. Why do you think you didn't have a vision after 40?

I never thought that I would make it. This is a really unfortunate thing.

Like, make it as in your career, make it in your relationship, make it in life. Like, survive life.

Survive life. Wow. You know what I mean? There had been so many people that I loved that didn't make it.

Right.

You know, and I was just like, okay, my day was like, and as crazy as it sounds, you're thinking, you live hot, you live fast, and then life's done.

Mm-.

You know what I mean? It's like something's gonna happen. And I was like, yo, you made it to 40? What the f***?

What?

You know what I mean? It's like you made it to 40 and I didn't see anything.

Wow. What was that like on your 40th birthday when you were celebrating or reflecting on your life? The last decade, usually we reflect on the last year. It's a decade we're reflecting on, but it sounds like you were reflecting on your life.

I was, it was really hard. That was a really, really difficult time. And I remember Will had, he had like, Put together this huge party, you know, 'cause 40th birthday. Yeah, he loves to inventize everything. He's just, you know, he loves building memories. And I remember having to tell him, I can't. I just didn't have it. I didn't have it in me to pretend. I didn't have it in me to be around people that I didn't have it. you know? And I was in really bad shape. I was in really bad shape.

What were the thoughts that were on repeat during that time? What would you think to yourself or say internally or out loud about you to you?

I would, it was really, you know what? It was really just having the energy to every day waking up, was doomsday. It was like, I, you know, it was just like, it was like having to get, it was the worst part of my day.

Waking up.

Waking up.

Holy cow.

And getting out of the bed, you know, it was like having like three Mack trucks and chains to my shoulders just like, come on, you can do it, come on. You know, it's like, and just like, How am I going to get through this day?

Right. Because your kids were what, probably in their almost teenagers or something around then, or early teens.

-Your kids were like pre-teens.

-Yeah. Yeah. So they had challenges that they're dealing with in adolescence and figuring out life.

And you're- But they were pretty easy. Thank gosh. Wow, that's good. You know what I mean? Like they were like easy, you know, and at that time. Sure, sure.

You know, and- So your biggest enemy sounds like it was you.

My biggest enemy was me, you know, and just really just, and people around me knew something was wrong, but they just couldn't put their finger on it. Like they couldn't understand, like, what the hell is going on with you? But it was clear that I was not happy, you know? And it wasn't just like, I'm not happy. It was like, I wasn't. happy. Like, I couldn't, you know, but people just didn't have any understanding. We weren't talking about mental health issues at all.

Even then, yeah, when you were 40, no one was talking about it publicly. Oprah wasn't even talking about it. It was like, if Oprah's not talking.

About it, it's like, it doesn't exist.

Yeah, exactly. You know, that's interesting. So did you feel like people were there for you, though, like in your relationships or your, or will? Did you feel like I had supportive friends and family members who were showing up for me, but I just wasn't able to get out of my depression or sadness?

I don't know if people really knew how to. I'd have girlfriends go, Hey, what's wrong? You're not yourself. You can talk to me. I didn't know how to talk.

So you weren't communicating?

I didn't know how to communicate, you know what I mean? And so even like when people are dealing with people who are depressed or you have people who have attempted suicide or unfortunately people who actually do succeed. Like, I didn't know. And I'm like, I get it. Because a lot of times you don't know what's going on with you. You don't know how to communicate. And you have so much shame and fear and fear, you know, and you just don't know how. And I was a high functioning, you know, person suffering from depression. Nobody was, listen, and that was also confusing.

Because I'm succeeding here, I'm crushing it.

I'm getting up, I'm not in a corner balled up. Like people think depression is just, you know, you're in a corner balled up, you can't get up, you don't want to get out of bed. Of course, I had those feelings, but I got out of bed.

What drove you to get up and get out of bed?

My kids.

So they. They at least gave you the purpose and vision.

My kids gave me purpose. They kept me going.

If you didn't have your kids, what would you have?

If I didn't have my kids, I don't. I don't think I would have made it through those dark times. Yeah, no, I could. I I can honestly say that.

Wow.

Yeah, they kept me going.

In your book, again, it's amazing how much you open up. The whole thesis is about worthiness, becoming worthy, owning your worthiness. You talked about, I think it was like you met with all the shamans, all the nuns, all the priests. You went through any spiritual leader you could find, any practice, any philosophy, you tried it.

Yeah. Anything.

From all those, you know, workshops and exercises and one-on-one conversations.

Ceremonies.

Yes. And howling at the moon, whatever it is you're doing, you know. What was the biggest awakening for you with all those experiences? What was the reoccurring theme that kept kind of whispering or speaking to you as a reminder of what you needed to know or hear?

So I knew I knew that there was a higher power. I knew that. I didn't have the rela-- I was like, I just needed to figure out how to get access to it. I know it's there. You know, studied the Bible for three. I'm talking about backwards and forwards. I studied it from a historical point of view. I studied from as a theologian. I study. I tried defining those, like the mysticism of Christianity, which I'm still into.

Sure.

And I was like, but I don't know God. Wow. Like, I don't have a personal relationship with God. Like, I'm not God. I'm not feeling you.

You didn't feel that connection.

I didn't feel the connection. I understood how where Islam was created, Judaism, Christianity, Sufism, Sikhism, you name it, all it, 'cause I love religion anyway. But I was like that knowledge wasn't giving me the connection. There's a difference in the intellect, understanding the theories, understanding how things are developed. versus being immersed and absorbed in that spiritual energy that you feel held and you feel that you know God is with you.

-Wow.

-Ashley: Right?

You feel a sense of peace.

You feel peace and you feel like, I don't have to do this alone. I don't have to do this alone. And on top of that, there's so much more going on here than I could even imagine.

Right.

You know what I mean? And okay, God, I'm gonna put my trust and my faith in you, right? It took me till I was 40.

Wow. To start that process.

No, I had, I'd been going through that whole process before 40. Wow.

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And it's when I hit 40 that my son, Jaden, came into the kitchen and he said, Mom, you gotta come in the living room. Moises and Mateo are talking about an experience their dad had in Peru. And I said, okay, because my kids know I'm a seeker. You know, I was trying all kinds of stuff. You know what I mean? And so they tell me about this experience that their dad had with a medicinal plant called ayahuasca, right? And I'm like, Whoa. I'm like, Is your dad in town? They're like, yeah. I was like, Call your dad, see when he can come over here and talk to me. Now, I'd known their father for a while. And when I saw him, it was Caesar.

Caesar, Caesar Milani.

No, no, no, no, no. That's not Caesar Milani. No, two Caesars.

Gotcha, gotcha.

Their dad, his name is Caesar, is right.

Got it, got it.

And he came and he spoke to me and he said, and I saw, like, people, when they have, you know, it's like when people are immersed, they don't have to talk about it. You feel it, you see it, it's all over them. And I was like, I'm looking in his eyes, I'm looking at him, I'm like, He's different.

His energy.

His energy.

His way of being, his presence.

His way of being, his presence. I like, I need that.

I want that.

I want that. Right? I need that. It was like a clarity.

It was like a clarity.

Yeah, it was clarity and it was light.

Interesting.

Right? And I was like, I want that. And I asked for the universe to give me that. And within a month, the universe opened a door for me. to have my own ceremony. And that's where the book, at the beginning, when I'm like, okay, I'm gonna go and do the ceremony. You know what I mean?

What was your experience? What opened up for you during that ceremony?

I got to see, first of all, and I'm not saying that this is a cure for anyone who's suffering what I was suffering, because I will say this, I don't believe that the plant ayahuasca is for everyone, right? That I just don't believe that, right? It has to be a real calling. And I went through a night of hell where I was confronted with the shadow of my own mind. I was confronted with those thoughts. To the point that I thought I was possessed.

Holy cow. Right?

So the thoughts are like, kill yourself. Do it. Right now. Nobody needs you. You're not needed. You're not wanted. Kill yourself. Right? And I mean, this is like bombarding me. And I can't escape these dark voices. Right. I will come to find out that I was confronting my internal voice of my lack of self-worth. Wow. Right? Deep, right? And yes, those voices can have energetic fields, right? But that it was me. and I had to surrender the next night, 'cause that was supposed to be my last night. -ASHLEY BLAKE: Right. -SHEREE: I was supposed to do three nights. And that was my last night. And I remember looking at the medicine woman that I was working with, and I said, I can't go home like this to my children. Whatever's on me, whatever this energy, this, Demon.

You gotta get out.

It's gotta get off. Yeah. Right? And not realizing, no, that's you, boo, right? But that next night when I went back in, I got to see that. That's when the light came in, you know, I had to just sit in that stillness. I had to sit in that trust. And it was the first time that I got to feel God. Wow.

Really? Yeah. That's amazing.

Yeah.

I mean, I will preface with this. I mean, I love that you said the, you know, the plant medicine isn't for everyone and it's not a healing solution for everyone.

That's right.

It's an opener.

Yeah.

To see certain things.

That's right.

And I think it's really important to be careful who you're doing it with and make sure you don't go home without clearing the energy and all those things. I've never done it personally, but I know a lot of people have and Some people have not recovered from it fully.

Absolutely.

I just want to put that out there as a, you know, a point to say. But it sounds like you had the wisdom and the clarity to say, I need to finish this.

Yeah.

To make sure that there is light within me. And I'm not trying to have these thoughts of like, you need to kill yourself. You're not worthy. You know, you don't belong here.

Yeah. And what I just knew I was.

In the middle of a passage. Yes, of course. Yeah, of course.

And there's darkness in that passage. It was, I was in the valley of the shadow of death. Right.

Wow.

Big time.

What opened up for you when you started to see your own light within you? What was the focal point that stayed with you today? Because it sounds like you didn't have that light within you for decades.

No.

Maybe since you were a little girl.

I got to see that we're all made of light.

Mm-.

You know, and that, I got to see that the mind, you got to be careful with the mind. And that is the spirit to cultivate. And the mind should follow the spirit. The spirit is not, the mind is not the leader, you know? And so it was readjusting. Right.

Making the spirit in you the leader.

Make it like really learn, like I was like, oh, I've been depending on a level of intelligence, like, oh, if I know about this, if I know about Christ, if I know about the, you know, Muhammad, you know, the prophet, you know, blessings and peace upon his soul. It's like if I know all of these things, then I'm going to be good because I'm smart.

Knowing is not fully believing. Believing is not knowing.

Right. And so it was like, cool.

I know these things, but I'm still not sure.

Yeah. I know these things. Great. Now you got to cultivate spirit and heart. Yeah, to cultivate that.

How did you learn to cultivate that?

Oh, now that's a whole 'nother process.

Right.

I'm still learning. You never arrive, right? So throughout the book, I'm talking about the process. It's like more so in like the, you know, I really get into it in the chapter Surrender. You know, I'd been, I've been on this journey. Listen, I've been on this journey since day one, right? It's just that along the way, different gates opened up, you know? And we learn along the way what to get out of the way in order to get closer to that, which is more true, you know what I mean? And so that night of Aya was the beginning of the next gate of like, okay, Great, you've got intelligence about all these religions. Bravo.

Now you gotta integrate that.

Now you gotta integrate. Now you have to apply, and now you have to learn how to cultivate a relationship with the Great Supreme.

Yeah, and it's almost unlearning the last 40 years of your life that has been so familiarized in your book, where you talk about, you know, this familiarity of trauma and chaos. in life. You mentioned the word chaos and trauma in relationships, in life, in family dynamics. It's like this familiarity. Just because it's familiar doesn't mean it's healthy or the best thing for you.

Right. And that's the thing. It's like people go, I hear it all the time. Didn't you see the signs? And it's like, pause. Let's talk about signs for a minute. You don't know a red sign. if that red sign is familiar.

If it's all you know.

If it's all you know, right? So now you got to unlearn some things to go, oh, right, that is a red flag, right? You know, it's like, okay, right? It's like, but so it's such a process of peeling back trusting, peeling back, trusting, wanting to step out of that which you see as familiar. You know what I mean?

It's so challenging.

And challenging. Oh, it is like, oh, it is excruciatingly challenging, like to have to leave all that you trust. Look, that's what you call your quintessential extreme midlife crisis.

Wow. Yeah.

Okay. I went into an extreme, 'cause it felt like I've been in crisis.

Your whole life.

My whole life, right? So 40K was like, Chick, we going hard. Wow. We going hard.

Wow.

I'm gonna have to, you know, the great Supreme was like, All right, I'm just gonna have to crack your head wide open. You know, because the thing that I realized too is like, when it came to those suicidal thoughts, yes, something needed to die, but it wasn't me physically.

What was it?

It was the thoughts around myself, how I felt about myself that I had to rehabilitate.

Wow.

Right? That I'm still rehabilitating.

Well, you're not perfect yet, Jada.

No. Wow. I'm trying, though.

It's a journey.

I'm trying.

I don't even know if we should be trying to be perfect.

You know what I mean? It's like, yeah. In this human form, we are not meant to be perfect. We are not meant to be perfect.

When we get to perfect status, guess what? We don't need to do that. We're gone. Yeah, we're gone. You know, you said you mentioned something before. You're on this journey. this process. And for me, I've been in a journey, a healing journey for the last few years. And my coach therapist said, you know, healing is always going to be a journey. You know, it's always going to be a different level of letting go and surrendering of something that was of allowing something in your ego to die, of transforming it again, of forgiveness, of peace, of grace, of yourself and those around you, or of society, the world, politics. Like there's always going to be an ego death. We're going to have to need to go through and keep healing. Right? It's right when we think we've got to figure it out, it's like, oh, the universe is. So I think it's, you know, I love that you're on this journey. And I'm curious, when you turned 40 and all this went down, if there was a scale, a self-worthiness scale that you could reflect on and think of where you were at at that time, 10 being the highest level of worthiness and one being, you know, not at all. Where were you on that scale of self worthiness at 40?

After Aya.

Before, when you had your 40th birthday.

Oh, I was below zero.

Below negative.

I was negative.

Even though you were able to create and have, you know, all this success on the outside looking great.

Yep.

Money and fame and all these different things. You were negative in the worthiness category.

So I'll tell you the thing that I've learned about that. Is that you can have capabilities that you're really good at.

Talents.

Talents. But that doesn't feed the totality of your self-worth. You go, oh, I'm good at that thing. And people find value in me in that thing. Right? Oh, people think, you know, I can act and I can dance. And so you want to do more of it. Okay? You want to do more of it, right? I talk about this in the book too. So in my teens, I'm driving. I'm driven. I'm good. I can hustle. I can, you know, I got talent. You know, I got girth. I can go to LA. I can make something of myself. Get to LA. Bust through doors. Skyrocketing. Still. Nothing. Still feeling like I could tell. I'm like, so you mean to tell me I gotta sing and dance for people to love me? and that pissed me off.

They love me for my talent.

They love me for my talent. Even like a father who didn't want to raise me, wanted to now be in my life. And I got to see that's not true. It's not authentic. It's not authentic. So people finding value in you for your capabilities, we know. within our soul. That's not us. It's not the thing we're asking to be loved for. We know it innately, right? And so it doesn't feed that authentic place of self-worth.

Right. What do you feel like has been the thing over the last decade that has allowed you to build self-worth? From a negative to, I guess, where you are today. I'm not...

I love a journey. I love a journey.

First off, where are you on that self-worthiness scale today? And I'm not expecting to be a 10.

We're all on a journey. I'm a 10, right?

But where do you feel like you are? You know, in an authentic place, where do you feel like you are?

I feel like I'm in a really good place. I've been through so much. I've been through-- and let me tell you, I'm so grateful. I gotta be so honest about that. I wouldn't ask for anybody else. This is journey had to have to be what mine has been, right? But for what the Great Supreme has given to me, it has been designed specifically for my soul, for whatever reason. And I'm grateful because of the gifts that I've been able to receive, right? So in all of the misunderstanding of me.

From the outside world or from you?

Both. Uh-huh. Both. Okay. Both. But the misunderstanding, you know, from the outside world and as far as the, All of the criticism and all of the judgment, the thing that I've been able to cure is self judgment. Wow. In the biggest way, let me tell you, and that's where freedom sits. 100%.

How much did you self judge before in the last few years? And then it...

I would say that, 'Cause you're always.

Getting judged from the outside world, whether positive or negative or somewhere in between.

You know what was a really-- my journey of really diving into self-judgment began metal. Me being in my metal band, doing metal music, and going out there in spaces where I was considered the most unwanted, you know, person. And that's when I really got to understand, start to understand what is unreal about others and their judgments. and how it only reflects my self-judgment. And once I started curing my self-judgment, the judgment of others had no place.

That's interesting.

Had no power, had no power, right? It is the judgment within ourselves that the judgments of others the judgments others have on us attached to.

It hurts more because we believe it.

Because we believe it. It was like, oh, if I don't believe that and that's not me, what am I upset about?

Right.

And then you realize, oh, that's about how you feel about you. Oh, we're in the clash of wounds here.

Yeah, that's interesting. This is fascinating. I think I saw a video online of, gosh, who was it? I think it was Selma Hayek that was talking about this concept if you don't speak Spanish and I'm speaking to you in Spanish and saying negative things about you, you're not gonna understand it and it's not gonna affect you.

Boom.

If you can learn to create that with criticism in your life and just being like, that's a language that you're speaking, but I don't resonate with that language, that style of communication, that judgment. So if you can learn to have a healthy language within yourself, come on, son. What other people are saying is not gonna impact you.

That's my girl. Selma's, she's one of the dopest females I know.

That's cool.

That's it. She's on point right there. Yeah.

What was, I mean, when did you learn that, though, this internal self-judgment? When was that? Was that recently? Was that years ago?

I would say it was years ago.

Okay. That relationship with self-judgment.

Yeah, that relationship with self-judgment, it started with the metal music and then going into, You know, when I went to the Red Table, you know, for that entanglement episode. Yeah.

And... 'Cause you got a lot of criticism.

Well, yeah, got a lot of criticism for that.

It's almost like when you think you've got it figured out, the universe is gonna test you.

Oh, yeah.

You really have this figured out?

Exactly, right? And so, you know, and how I-- the decision that I made with that false narrative, for many different reasons, you know, of, you know, the adulterous wife, which wasn't true, right? But I was willing to take that.

On.

Because there were other things that I felt I needed to protect and manage because I would be okay. in the midst of the fire of self, of like, you know, everybody else's judgment.

Right.

And then even within that, being able to cure any more remnants of that self judgment within that fire. So then by the time the Oscars came, I was laughing. Really? Yeah. I was just like, I get it. I get it.

Right.

I get it.

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Very interesting. Yeah.

I helped with that.

So people were able to say what they wanted to say.

Yeah. And I was able also to have understanding of why they were saying what they were saying because of how I had assisted in all of the narratives.

Right.

And I was like, I get it.

Right, right.

It's like, okay. And still being able to sit in the beauty of myself and smile at it all.

Did you. I mean, we were talking about this right before that it's been a, you know, a heck of a year for growth and learning and Discovery and healing and all these different things. A mentor of mine once said that a a bad day for the ego is a great day for the soul.

And that's a real talk.

Yeah. Robin Sharma told me that when I was kind of going through something about five years ago that wasn't as public as this, but it's my own internal stuff. He was like, you know, a bad day for the ego is a great day for the soul. And these are, like, moments of opportunities for growth to see, like, okay, how much do I believe in my own worthiness? Or how much do I believe in my own healing journey, or how much do I love myself no matter what is happening, even if people are right or wrong or anywhere between.

Doesn't matter.

Can I still love me? Right?

Because at the end of the day, that's what it's about. People are gonna always be fickle. I mean, come on.

You've seen everything in the last.

I've seen it all.

Yeah, you've seen people love you, love.

You, and then they come back. And like, fine, right? At the end of the day, what I realize is like, Jada, how do you feel about you? Because that's what this is about. You. People, leave them to it. Because people have enough difficult time dealing with liking themselves, learning how to love themselves, being with themselves. How people think about you, feel about you has nothing to do with you. That's real talk. How people feel about us doesn't have anything to do with us, right? And so all of this has been me curing how I feel about myself to the point the high-- the Great Supreme was like, do you get it? Do you fully get it now? Do you see your self-worth? -ASHLEY: Wow. -JESSICA: Regardless, no matter what is going on around you, Jada, do you see it? Yes, Father, Mother, I see it. Wow.

What was the best, the biggest lesson you learned over this last year and a half since that moment? And how has your self-worth and love for self evolved?

Man, that's a big question. And there hasn't been just one lesson. It's been so many lessons.

What are the main few that come to mind?

I think the biggest lesson that I've learned in all of this is unconditional love. For myself.

Of yourself, yeah.

For others, you know. I talk about that a lot in the book, you know, just, you know, with all this blame and.

How.

People really thought that I had, you know.

That.

It was because of me. And I talk about in the book how, why it wasn't. It's a whole big story and it has a lot of context to it, you know. And also having to take responsibility for 2016, as far as a dynamic between Chris and I. you know, big misunderstanding that I talk about a lot in the book. But even through all of this, really, even in, you know, in, in, even when you don't, even when you have cured a lot of your self judgment, it doesn't mean that you don't get your feelings hurt.

Yeah.

Yeah, you feel it still get hurt.

Yeah, yeah, of course.

You know? And so even in that, I don't.

Think anyone enjoys when someone's talking negative about them.

Exactly.

It's not a fun process.

It's not.

You can still learn to love and accept yourself and be like, this is really annoying or, Right. It can be frustrating still.

It's not a fun process, especially when you're, especially when you know this is a terrible misunderstanding. And especially when it's someone that you've spent time with. you see that they're hurting, you can kind of see how a misunderstanding between you, the two of you, has compacted a hurt, right? And someone can say some really awful things about you that aren't true. And it was the work that I had to do to be able to be with that, Allow it to pierce my heart, allow it to hurt me, and still wish him well. -Wow. -SHEILA: Still wish Chris well and have compassion for where he was sitting and understand. -SHEILA: yeah. -ROBIN: you: know, and that I wouldn't have-- that particular lesson in that particular process. in the intensity that it was wouldn't have been able to happen without this particular circumstance. And so it goes back to things aren't happening to us, they're happening for us, always, you know? And so it's just a matter of how we want to process things, how we want to look at things.

You know, this, this book is, was so inspiring. I haven't finished the whole thing, but I've been, like, going through bits and pieces, and I'm so grateful that you open up the way you do, because I think a lot of people can write a Memoir S type of book and hold back, but you really, I mean, you go there right away and you keep going there, and it's really cool to see you talk about everything. from your perspective. You know, you've done an amazing job with your show, with Red Table Talk, and there's different conversations you had with Will on there in the past. And I've never met Will, but I'm sure he's an amazing guy. Jay's always talking about how amazing he is. I'm curious, because you mentioned earlier in this interview about the mind and thoughts. You spoke about the mind and thoughts. And a lot of video clips that I see of Will, and I saw him in the conversation you had as well, he has this like unshakable mind, right? It's like, and he talked about, you know, his dad and all these things like the military aspect, the training, the mindset of just like nothing is impossible. And you guys speaking about this, nothing is impossible mindset. I'm curious, what is the thing you've learned the most about will and the mindset that you have applied that has really supported you in your life? Because there's some things about mindset that might be harmful to you. But what was the thing over your guys' relationship together that he's really taught you about mindset that has supported you in your life in a big way?

He's not a quitter, no matter how hard it gets. You know? It's like iron sharpens iron. You know?

And.

He'S always willing to do the hard stuff.

He's willing to suffer.

He's willing to suffer.

Yeah.

Right. And now in this new, this new passage of our relationship, he's learning how to suffer differently.

Interesting.

Yeah.

How does that look?

It's like, you know about this. It's like when you're going into the internal world. Oh, man. Okay. There you go. It is.

That seems scary, right?

When you've kind of had all of this, like, you've learned how to maneuver the, the, the, you know, physical world.

3D world.

3D world, right? And those rules of the 3D world don't apply to the inner world. Right? so now it's like having to readjust this concrete mindset, right? And having to learn to trust a different instinct and sit in a different place. And it's been an absolutely fascinating process. Really? I hope one day, you know, he's still in it. I hope one day we can write a book together.

That would be incredible.

Right? And just how we've been through so much and all the gates of relating that we've been through. And there's been many and many to come. Right? But the process that he's going through right now, I think would be so helpful to so many men.

Oh, gosh.

You know, going into that, you know, that different world where you're like a novice. Yeah. Yeah.

You're a beginner again.

You're a beginner again, which is hard.

For, you know, someone who's mastered the physical world.

Right.

With success and fame and money and career. He's mastered it.

He's right. But that's what I love about him. He's not a quitter. Yeah.

That's pretty cool.

So he's like.

Okay, I'm gonna do the work.

He kicks and he screams, you know, but he does the work.

Besides that mindset of not being a quitter, what is the thing you're most proud of him and love about him the most?

You know, he has such-- what I love about him the most is that, he really has the ability to see the good in everything. You know, I'm the one, I don't mind going in caves. I'm ready to go into the Shadowlands. Let's go, you know? And, but he just that light, you know, he is just like, The laughter, the humor, the childlike essence, the fun, the dance of life, you know, to be able to like dance through it all without like the attachment of all the like stuff. You know what I mean? I'll dance with you, but I'm bringing the stuff. You know what I mean?

I want all this to come with me.

Right, he's like, No, just for like two hours. Let's just leave that somewhere. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, and I think that's beautiful. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's a he's Sky.

That's beautiful. Before I ask the three final questions, I want people to pre-order this book or get this book right now worthy. You can get it everywhere. We'll have it all linked up. But make sure you get this book. We'll have an image on the screen right here so you can see what it looks like as well. But this is a painfully honest, inspirational memoir that you have shared with all of us. And I'm so excited for people to read it, to consume it, to share with their friends, to have conversations about it. So make sure you get a couple copies for you and a friend, because you're probably gonna need to talk to someone about it. You're probably gonna need to decompress, like, okay, what's going on in my life that I can relate to? And here's the things that I can apply. And don't do it alone. Do it with a friend. Do another girlfriend. Get someone to read this book with you. and talk about it. So I want to link that up for everyone, make sure they get that book, follow you all over social media because you've got so much great content as well and you're sharing more on your Instagram, which I love seeing. So we'll make sure to have that all linked up, but I want people to get a couple copies of the book. These are the three final questions. This is a question I ask everyone towards the end of our conversations. I'm going to adjust it a little bit for you. It's called the Three Truths. It's a hypothetical question.

Okay.

But I usually ask people in a certain way, and this is the way I ask it. You get to live as long as you want in this three-dimensional world, but eventually it's your last day, right? You can live as long as you want, but it's your last day. And you accomplish and create everything you want to create, but you don't get to leave anything behind on your last day. So no one has access to your book, to this conversation or to anything you've ever put out, hypothetical world. And the question goes like this. What are the three things that you would leave behind for the world if this is all we have to be reminded of you, the three lessons you would leave behind? But I'm gonna adjust this question a little bit because I've never done this, but I feel like this would be powerful. I want you to leave those three things behind to the five-year-old you. I used to have a photo of myself as a five-year-old. I think I showed on your show.

Right.

On the Table Talk.

Yeah.

About the healing journey of the inner child.

Yeah.

And what I needed to hear, see, experience and feel as a five-year-old that I never got. And having to recreate that healing journey with younger self to current self.

Right.

So I'm curious, what would those three lessons or truths be to Five-year-old Jada.

The lessons or truths to five-year-old Jada.

The thing that maybe you really needed to know, hear, experience, or feel.

The presence of divine masculine is real. You know, within and without. I'm still learning a lot about that. But wow, what a beautiful, I would just have so much honor. Yeah, I would want five-year-old Jada to know that. I would want five-year-old Jada to know for sure.

That.

She is made of divine nature.

Divine nature.

Yeah. You are made of divine essence. Carry that with you. Know it through and through. And I would want her to know that Authentic, authentic love. Not romanticized love, not love based in ego. Authentic love does truly conquer all.

Those are beautiful truths. Those are very beautiful. And for any woman watching or listening right now who is feeling hopeful, but still feeling sadness or depressed, anxious, uncertainty, fear about whether they're in a relationship or not, but they know something is off and they want to have some type of peace and breakthrough.

Yeah.

If you could share one thing with them right now, what would that be?

I would say, and this is a hard one. This is really, really, really, really, hard. Okay? Your happiness cannot be found outside of you. And that what is happening in our minds, what is happening in our spirits is reflected in our relationships.

Hard to hear sometimes.

It's hard, right? And that if we can just focus.

On.

Loving to spend time with ourselves, because if we don't like spending time with us, why do we think anybody else is going to want to be with us? Most of the time, we're looking for people to be things for ourselves, for us, that we're not willing to be for ourselves. We have to learn how to be those things for ourselves. We have to be the things we're asking for.

So no one can fix us or make us happier or-- no.

People can assist.

They can add to what we can do.

They can add to. They can't fix it. You're not gonna find the guy in the, you know, on the white horse, and you're not gonna find the woman or whoever. you, whoever you want to love, right? You have to be your own savior. And that's what this book is about. And that's what I say a queen is. Queen is her own savior. Right? And once we learn how to love ourselves. We can have it all.

Wow, that is beautiful.

And it's hard work.

It's not easy, huh?

It's not easy. We're always looking for the easy way out. We're looking for the great orgasm. We're looking for the handsome guy. We're looking for the rich guy, like, you name it. Had all that. Don't fix nothing.

-Right.

-Still messed up until we fix ourselves. If I had to get me together, you know, I had to learn how to love me. If I don't love me, how am I going to represent that love to show someone what it means how to love me? He's trying to figure out, or she's trying to figure out how to love her. himself, you know? So, and then what we attract? Law of Attraction.

Of course.

So, there it is.

Okay, I've got one final question before I want to ask you, Jada. I want to acknowledge you. I want to acknowledge you because I've met you twice. You had me on your show. We had a great time. I've met you again now here. For me, that's an amazing time. I appreciate you. But I want to acknowledge you because I can't imagine the challenge mentally, physically, emotionally of how to just navigate all this under the public eye in the way that you've had to over the last two plus decades in Hollywood and media and, you know, celebrity world and learning how to love self with all the criticism. I just don't know how to do that as much. Right? Right. So I really acknowledge you for being on this journey. And what I'm experiencing from you is you have a service-based heart.

Yeah.

You want to serve. You want to teach, you want to share, you want to be of service through the show, through the book, through what you're going to do in the future. So I really acknowledge you for being open, constantly doing the work, and allowing light to encompass you as opposed to the old darkness. So I really acknowledge you for this and hopefully we have many more conversations in the future. When you guys do the book together in the future, I'm pre-ordering that. We'll get you back on for it. And hopefully we can do many more of these things. But I appreciate it and acknowledge you for your journey.

Thank you.

Of course, of course. My final question, what is your definition of greatness?

Oh. my definition of greatness. I think my definition of greatness is always having the willingness to grow. Just being willing. That's great. You know what I mean? That's what gets us to those like those next plateaus of ourselves, you know, those next like rungs, having the willingness that to me is what, you know, makes us great.

I hope today's episode inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a rundown of today's show with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me as well as ad free listening experience. Make sure to subscribe to our greatness plus channel on Apple podcast. If you enjoyed this, please share it with a friend over on social media or text a friend. Leave us a review over on Apple podcast and let me know what you learned over on our social media channels at Lewis Howes. I really love hearing the feedback from you and it helps us continue to make the show better. And if you want more inspiration from our world-class guests and content to learn how to improve the quality of your life, then make sure to sign up for the Greatness Newsletter and get it delivered right to your inbox over at greatness.com/newsletter. And if no one has told you today, I want to remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great. Hey everybody, it's Rob Lowe here. If you haven't heard, I have a podcast that's called Literally with Rob Lowe. And basically it's conversations I've had that really make you feel like you're pulling up a chair at an intimate dinner between myself and people that I admire, like Aaron Sorkin or Tiffany Haddish, Demi Moore, Chris Pratt, Michael J.

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