Jason Derulo on Self-Mastery, Success & Unleashing Your Creative Genius EP 1460

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Congrats on everything. You've got a new book coming out. You got a new single coming out. And I was just talking to you off camera about this, about how brilliant your marketing and branding mind is in everything you do. You've been successful in music. Obviously, I think you're one of the most top 20 followed people in the world on social media, or at least on TikTok. I know that. And there's so much you're doing behind the scenes in terms of building your brand and spreading a positive message through media and entertainment and music. And so I just want to acknowledge you first for the creative mind you.

Have.

The ability to overcome constant criticism and challenges and adversity to being where you're at today. So congrats on everything.

Thank you, man. I appreciate that.

It's exciting. You've got these 15 rules for living your dream. And I'm curious, what was the dream early on? Was it always to be a singer and a musician? A songwriter or did you have another dream before that dream came about?

So my dream happened very early. So I was four years old and I saw Michael Jackson for the first time. My dream was a little strange because my dream was to be Michael Jackson. You know, whatever that meant to me at that time. But I told my mom, that's what I want to be. I want to be him, you know? But yeah, you know, over the years, obviously, studying every dance move, every song that he'd ever done. And then I slowly started to develop my own voice and started to develop my own style and swag. And then, yeah, man, the rest was history.

Right. And you got into music pretty early though, right?

Very early.

Was it your mom who was influencing you into that?

Not at all. I don't come from a musical family. I was kind of like the only Mohican. But yeah, my mom was really supportive in the fact that she never led me to believe that it was impossible. And I think that was very gutsy. And I still take my hat off to my mom for that. It's a hard thing to do to allow your kid to go for.

The.

Impossible dream, quote unquote.

Now, what was the lesson she taught you that still stays with you today?

I think the biggest one is work ethic, really.

She was doing everything I think I read about her, right?

Yeah, just by leading by example. You know, she later in life, she went back to college, went to law school, was working two jobs at the same time, and I watched her juggle these three things while still making it home to cook us spaghetti that I didn't like really much. Sorry, Mom, I don't like spaghetti. I ain't like it. I thought for years I ain't like spaghetti, but I actually do love spaghetti. But spaghetti was good. But she cooks other things really great.

Sure.

But yeah, man, just watching her as a kid, I was just amazed at the fact that she could do all of these things, juggle all these things and do it so well. Right.

What was your biggest fear or insecurity as a kid growing up?

Oh, I had plenty. I mean, I had a fat stage. So, you know, that was one of the things. You know, I remember one night I'm talking to my brother, who was up late night, and I was like, everything is wrong with me. I'm fat. I got asthma. I got acne. Everything is wrong with me. And my brother is like, Jay, you've got to chill.

How old were you?

I had to be, I don't know, like 10, like in that area, and give or take a couple years.

Fat, acne, asthma.

Asthma, it was the whole nine yards. The asthma was bad because, you know, even when I wanted to play sports, I mean, I can be in a pivotal moment. And I remember one time I was wide open for a touchdown, and I couldn't do it. I couldn't make it. -'Cause of the asthma? -'Cause of the asthma. -Really?

So I had asthma pretty bad, and then I just grew out of it. Wow. So what would you say was the biggest fear and security when you started to get into the music business? When people started to play your music, you started to do collaborations with other artists, you started to be on stages, what was that insecurity then? Was it a fear of failure? Was it the criticism that you weren't a certain way?

You know what? I feel like it's just so many. Really, you know, it's not just one. When you live your life in front of the world, so to speak, I mean, everything becomes a thing, you know, even things that you don't necessarily think are things somebody will say something and they're like, well, damn, they're probably right. My finger does look weird there. You know what I'm saying? So, like, when you can have a million positive comments, but that one person says, one negative thing and then your focus just goes to that negative thing. You know, that's human nature and it's messed up that it's like that. But over the years, I've become, you know, become kind of like, like a, like a, I've grown like this bulletproof vest that I just really doesn't get under my skin.

So when you see criticisms online or you see something that's negative comments, does it affect you still or do you.

You know, it really big, really doesn't affect me like it used to. It just really bounces off. And, and in this day and age, I mean, it's, it's really tough because there's a lot of kids online, obviously, and I know it's a lot of bullying going on. And I always say the easiest, it's easy to say, like, don't worry about the negative things people say. Like they're just talking smack, da, da, da. But it's really tough to be on the receiving end. And I've been on the receiving end a lot. You know what I'm saying? But the advice that I would give is you can let some things in.

Right?

I wouldn't just shun every negative thing someone says.

Why not?

Because you can learn from it. And I've learned a lot from negative comments. I remember after my first, my first couple of songs, I was receiving so much backlash about this auto-tune thing. It was like a big stigma. All you can't really sing is auto-tune, auto-tune. So I was like, oh, wow. Like, my next, my next record, I need to make sure that, like, I don't put all this autotune on the record so people understand, like, like, I really do this. Like, I really, like, yeah, I really sing. But, like, it, it took, I think it takes a bigger person to be on the receiving end and then just kind of not just be, like, all they hating, but maybe, you know, you know, take some of it with a green of salt and, you know, you can imply things that, that you see that you can actually make a little change and, like, better yourself. Right, right.

Because some of the feedback is valid and, like, okay, it's not working. resonating with this community of people, maybe there's something I can do to improve, right?

Yeah, yeah.

So there's certain things when people, I used to take everything personally online. When I started in kind of this business, I used to take every little comment personally. And then I had a coach one time say, like, why are you reacting and responding to these negative comments? Just say thank you for the feedback, see if any of it resonates and you can improve, or just, they're just a hater or a critic and that's okay too, but you don't have to defend or react. But it sounds like you've done pretty good at it.

But there's also another approach of not looking at the comments at all.

Right.

But you're so big on social media, how do you do that?

Just not look at the comments. Yeah. Like you can post and like, you can even turn the comments off if you'd like. I've seen people do that. I've even thought about doing that before, but you know, it just doesn't really bother me anymore.

So what's the voice in your head that you hear the most for yourself? Is it a positive voice or is it a critical voice?

I actively try to speak to myself kindly. So I see my self-conscious as my best friend. What would I tell my best friend? I think far too often we beat ourselves up and then when our best friend comes in the room, we give them all the good. I think it's important to treat yourself kind as well. Like why didn't you talk to yourself in those ways and like beat yourself up. When you look in the mirror, you need to speak to your best friend in the world because nobody is closer to you than yourself.

Did you always do that way or did you learn that over time? Did someone teach you that?

I've learned it over time.

Really?

But my mom instilled in it, instilled that in me in a way because I talk about this in the book. It's the power of your tongue, right? are what we say is just so powerful. And my mom made a switch when I was a kid and you know how you have the common phrases that are like, oh, this cheesecake is to die for. My mom would switch that and say, oh no, this cheesecake is to live for. And those simple kind of things, right? And I was like, oh wow, like my mom is like really taking this spoke in the words that she says really seriously. And I started to implement that in my life and started to speak more positively. And then that continued to morph into talking to myself in a really empowering, empowering way and telling myself that I can do this, I can do anything. And I slowly started to see myself being able to do anything.

Wow. Now, some people can do that before they become successful and have an audience and fame and money and all these people who are inspired by them, but once you started to accelerate in your career, and sometimes the comparison could come out, were you just as kind to yourself then or were there times in the last decade where you have faltered back into negative criticism?

Oh, I mean, every day, even today. Like, you know, I. There's always going to be times where you have the little slip ups, but just. You gotta just catch yourself, you know, like, oh, no, you can't talk. You can't. You can't talk to me like that.

Interesting.

You know, because if someone else said it to you, you wouldn't be okay with it. So why are you okay with yourself telling yourself that?

Yeah. You know, it's so interesting because I feel like a lot of the world has a lot of negative self-talk and beats themselves up a lot. And if we recorded our inner thoughts and played it on a loudspeaker or played it to our parents or played it to our friends, a lot of times they'd probably put us in a mental hospital or something. 100%. Based on how we communicate to self. Yeah. And we would never speak to some, a friend, like you said, like that. And so it's so amazing that you have this, you know, mindset that allows you to be positive to you.

Yeah.

I mean, I mean, I go really far with it too though.

So like, how so?

So so far as I really see my body as the avatar and my mind is the boss. So for instance, this morning I needed to get up at five in the morning this morning, but I went to bed at 4:30.

Oh my gosh.

It was a really tough, tough thing to do. But I knew I didn't have another time slot to go to the gym today. I knew that was my only chance. Oh my gosh. So when that alarm set off, it was painful. And my body was like, no, no, we can't do this. You need sleep, da, da, da, da. Yeah, you need sleep, but we're gonna get sleep eventually. This is one day, and this is a test to how strong we are.

Wow.

So my mind is the boss and it tells my body, you have to get up. Like, there's no choice. We don't, it's not a, it's not a negotiation. We got to get up right now. Um, so when I treat, when I treat my life like, when I treat my body as if it's, the, the tool in my mind is the boss, everything else just kind of falls into place a little bit. And then I'm able to stick to the regimen.

Yeah.

Because regimen is really important.

What is the routine that you feel like has helped you the most when you have a non-negotiable is it the way you communicate to yourself? Is it the relationships you have? Is it the waking up at a certain time? What's the routine that has allowed you to be excelling at this level?

So I can go back to three major moments in my life where my whole world kind of was slowed down.

That.

I was able to take a large leap of growth.

What was that?

My first moment was when I got a publishing deal. Let me start with the most juicy one. The first one I want to talk about is when I broke my neck in 2014. I broke my C2 vertebrae. I was about to go on a world tour. I was coming off a huge album. Platinum haze, da da da. And I broke my neck preparing for my tour. I slipped during a back tuck, crazy freak accident. It's called the Hangman's Break. It was an accident that could have ended off very differently, paralyzed or worse.

That's scary.

Yeah, super scary. And it totally, like, rocked my world and it was like the whole world stopped, you know? There was no touring, there was no interviews, there was nothing, right? So from going at my peak position in life, all going all the way back to zero. At this point, I was on my second album. I was making a lot of money. I was still living at my mom's house. That's how crazy my life was. I had millions of dollars in the bank. and I was still living at my mom's house. I didn't even have a chance to go buy a house yet. So...

This was nine years ago, right? 2014, you said?

Yeah. So, yeah, so when I break my neck, I go to my mom's house. My mom is, you know, nursing me back to health. And a girlfriend I had at the time.

And.

This was one of my lowest lows in life. I couldn't tie my shoes. I couldn't bathe myself. I had to sleep on my back, learn to sleep on my back. I always slept on my stomach my entire life. Those things, it just like my whole psyche was off. But there was like a calming. There was a calming. And in that calming, I was able to develop a routine. And I woke up at a certain time. I went to the gym at a certain time, even though I couldn't do much. I walked on the treadmill at a certain time for a certain amount of time. Then I went to the studio for a certain amount of time and wrote song after song after song and then rinse and repeat every single day for seven months. And then after that period of time is when I dropped my biggest album ever. I had five platinum hits and it was one of the our biggest albums in terms of how many platinum songs come off of one album.

Wow.

And it's because of that focused energy that I had. There was no nothing else. It was just the routine, the routine, the routine, routine, routine. Then another time, the first time that this happened was when I got assigned a publishing deal in Los Angeles by a company called Beluga Heights. and what year is that?

That.

That was 2008. -huh flew out to Los Angeles, me and my cousin. And literally, we had no friends.

No.

We knew no nobody in Los Angeles. So the same thing. We had a routine. We had a time for the gym, had a time for the studio, we had a time for dinner, doing your.

Laundry, whatever it was.

Yeah. Every single day, the same thing. Every day for months and months on end. and that's when I wrote my first album.

Wow.

So that was a big one. And then the, the final one that I wanted to just touch on really quick is the pandemic. The pandemic. I, I created this whole social media thing during the pandemic. My entire career, I struggled with social media. I had sold 200 million records, but I had barely had any followers on any, really, any social media. I was, I was social media dumb. during the pandemic, I made it my. My mission to try this new thing out and just, like, focus my energy on socials. And in the pandemic, I became one of the most followed people on the planet. Because every single day I posted six times.

Six.

Six videos per day.

Oh, my God.

And every day I would wake up, I went to the gym. I worked out, I should say, not went to the gym because we were all locked up.

The backyard.

Yeah, I worked out, and then I shot up. Gang of videos.

Six a day?

I posted six a day.

So before 2020, you weren't really that active or even known on social media, is that right?

Yeah. I want to go as far as saying I was one of the most famous, unfamous people on the planet.

Because no one was following you on social media, but they knew your music. But it was- They knew my music.

But didn't know my face, really. But it was just such a disconnect. I had sold 200 million records, but like some people couldn't pick me out of a crowd.

Really?

You know what I'm saying? It was the weirdest thing in the world. But like social media is such a huge tool for that, right? Like it connects all the dots and the dots was not connecting for Yahweh until the pandemic.

Why do you think... So the theme that I'm hearing is kind of three moments where there was adversity that caused you to accelerate in some area of your life. The broken neck caused you seven to nine months of a routine, reflection, rest, recovery, realignment on your vision, and then boom, biggest album. The publishing deal coming out here, getting a deal, which is exciting, but also don't know anyone, no one knows you. Probably things are in blue.

Clubs.

Exactly.

Have no money to go out on dinners. It was just work.

But the routine, set you up for the next thing. And then the breakdown of the pandemic that everyone went through and you not having any social media on death. But that focused energy and routine allowed you to break through into another level of success.

100%.

So these three kind of breakdown moments got you clear on what you wanted. I think a lot of people are in breakdown now, but they have a hard time getting clear on what they want and where they want to go. How did you get clear? Like, okay, I know I want to do social media now. and I'm gonna go all in on it for this year. I know I want to go and do this music and so I'm gonna go all in on the studio every single day. How did you get clear to even execute that routine on the vision?

I can answer that in a couple ways. I'm a guy who feels like you should work on your strengths and you work on your weaknesses.

Yeah, this is one of your 15 rules in your book.

Yeah. so in my music, my falsetto is probably one of my strengths, right? It's like one of the things that I feel set me apart. So I work on my falsetto and I utilize it, you know, and that's something that I, you know, will just continue to work on because I feel like that kind of sets me apart. And something that I was weak at was social media, right? So, like, that was a perfect opportunity to, like, be like, Let me utilize this time to, like, to, you know, to really kind of see if I can knock this out of the park.

Now, were you also thinking like, okay, TikTok is this new thing, let me start on TikTok, and here's an opportunity, or were you like, let me do, you know, YouTube and Instagram and everywhere else where people are already at, or were you like, here's an opportunity, I see some people starting to pop off, maybe I could start here? Was that the strategy?

So what I don't want to do on this show is lie. I want to be completely and utterly honest. I'm not gonna give you the, Give me your answer.

Give it to me.

I'm gonna give you the honest answer. I genuinely saw that there was an opening in the TikTok space, genuinely. So this is how I saw it. It's because I saw my nieces and nephews on it. They were very young.

All day, right?

All day. And I was like, it was an app called Musically at the time. And I was like, what is this app? why do you like this? This is not even like, what? Why? Like, you slow down and, like, people are dancing and then, like, doing, like, lip syncs. I'm like, how? This is not how social media works. You're supposed to show your life. So I was like, let me give it a try. My marketing director at the time was like, he showed me the app, and then I saw my. My nieces and nephews on it, so I was like, okay, two.

Two.

Now, this is two different situations. And then I did a live, and then, like, I had a lot of people in my live. I was, like, on Tick Tock on.

On musically at the time.

On musically.

Yeah. And how many followers did you have at that time, you know, maybe, like.

2 million or something. Okay.

Gotcha.

Yeah.

So you had an audience. Yeah, I had an audience.

Yeah.

Too many is a lot. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, not for somebody that was, you know.

Sure, sure.

But it was.

It was. It was decent. It was a base. Yeah, it was a good base. But the engagement was crazy. It was different. It was different. I was getting more engagement with my 2 million followers here, and I had like 4 million on Instagram at the top.

And you weren't getting the engagement.

And I wasn't getting that engagement. So I saw something. So I never talked about this before. This is the first time I'm talking about this, by the way. 'Cause I always give like the pop of star answers. She's like, oh yeah, I was trying out a new thing. But so, yeah, so I saw that the engagement was different. So this was like a new kind of app. Um, so the pandemic hit. I was like, I've been meaning to like really dig my teeth in this app. This is the perfect opportunity. Let me try it out. So I was posting one time a day, then I went from two times a day, and then like that went to three. And then all of a sudden when I posted six times in a day, the numbers started to explode. My following, my followers started to explode. and it got to the point where I was receiving over a billion views a month on my TikTok.

Oh my god.

So it was wild. It got to a crazy, I mean, obviously I don't have that kind of time anymore. But like, when that focused energy hits, it's different, man. But like, I go nuts with it. I know I have to be obsessive. To be the best at anything, you have to do way more than anybody else is gonna do. So I knew I had to, okay, Charlie D'Amelio is posting like five, six times a day. I know why you did post that. She's uberly successful. I gotta do it too. Addison Rae is doing it. I mean, there's the blueprint, right?

So, I mean, but you had a lot going on still, even though it was a pandemic, you still, you know, you got a business, you got music, you got things you gotta do. How are you doing everything else you're doing and your routine and working out.

And doing six videos a day, prioritizing the videos. I prioritize the videos before anything else.

Really? You did those first? Yeah.

And, and a lot of people thought I was out of my mind. I, I, people don't remember this, but, like, people laughed at me for being on Tick Tock. It was a real thing. People don't remember that. But, like, I was an artist. I was supposed to be, like, this world-renowned singer. and I was on TikTok with, like, 12 year olds. Yeah, exactly.

They're like, this is for 12 years.

What's he doing? Exactly. Literally.

So how did you quiet that? The critics in the music industry and other celebrity friends were like, what are you doing, Jason? How did you.

I didn't want to quiet that. I didn't care because I knew in the back of my mind that those 15 year olds in five years were going to be 20 years old. Right. So even if the, the elders didn't join the party, those. The 15 year olds were gonna be 20 in five years. So, like, like, it would make sense in five years. Thankfully, it all happened way faster than that. In the. Made sense now.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It worked out.

But, yeah, that was a huge gamble, you know, it could have went either way. It could have.

The interesting thing is, you know, because I remember watching because I was kind of, like, trying Tick Tock a little bit then as well, trying to figure it out. I wish I would have went all in because I, like, just dabbled. Yeah, I would go all in for like a week and then just didn't go all in. But I remember thinking, like, it's really smart what you're doing because I saw you get to like 10 million followers really quick and then 15 and 20 and you just kept showing up. I was just like, sure. It felt like you were everywhere.

Yeah.

And when you're doing six videos a day and it's getting featured and recommended, you are everywhere.

It was everywhere.

You're on everyone's phone around the world.

Man, the time.

And I can. And I can only imagine how many people thought you were crazy. But now, the interesting thing, everyone's trying to replicate what you've done, especially in the music industry. Everyone's saying, look what he was able to do with his music during the pandemic on Tick Tock and blow it up to the top of the charts. How do I get into this? So sometimes we do things where people might laugh at us. But later, they're replicating us.

100%.

And that's what people have been trying to do with you.

Yeah. TikTok is now the gatekeeper of the music industry. It went from being like something that people laughed at in the music industry to being the gatekeeper. It's like where people pop off now. Yeah, the top 12 songs of last year, the top 13 songs of last year, 12 of them had a major social campaign. Like a trend.

To that.

Trend, yes. Really? yeah, those numbers are staggering, man. So, I mean, but I don't even think this is, this is not music specific. Social media now is for everyone. Like, everybody is a brand now. It doesn't matter if you're a doctor, if you're a lawyer, if you are a fireman, if you're a beekeeper, like, these are all businesses, and you personally are a brand. and until you can see yourself as a brand, you are totally selling yourself short. And I'm so sick and tired of people hearing, people saying, it's not for me, I'm too old. Like, are you living under a rock? Like, do you not see that's happening in the world? It's all about social media. Every single brand out there is scrambling trying to figure this thing out. and I love when brands come to me and trying to act like they know what's going on. You know what's going on. Nobody does. Like, this thing is, this thing is brand new. We're all figuring it out right now.

Yeah.

But if anybody knows, it's the creators. It's not the brands.

Right.

Because at the end of the day, they're just hiring somebody that, that sounds like they know what they're talking about, but they don't.

Right.

Because they don't even have following themselves. How are you, why are you listening to that person? It's brilliant, man. It's really exciting. What was the, what was the three biggest things that came out of the growth of your social media, the three best things that have happened for you since rising to social media stardom.

The number one biggest thing is.

What.

I can Pro, what I can produce from an ad. The money that, that comes from that is, is substantial. It's really, really life-changing and I've been doing music my whole life.

And, you mean an ad from like a sponsorship to someone sponsoring you to do a promotion or... Yeah, brand deal.

Yeah, brand deal, yeah. Uh-huh. So it's basically like a commercial without being a commercial.

Right.

Because, I mean, look at it, right? If you are a huge brand, a blue chip brand, and you're looking for eyeballs, eyeballs are on socials, right? And it used to be where they would go and get a commercial or they would go and, like, put it, you know, put it on the radio or something. But now socials are the biggest thing in the world, right? And the viewership that I get on my page, I mean, you can't, you can't get that everywhere, you know, can't.

Get that on TV.

You can't because the biggest shows in the world are only getting, like, four or five million views. I mean, you know, like, my videos are in the double digits all the time, you know? So it's become, like, this crazy thing that I never expected was going to happen. I I was just trying to. To. Honestly, I was trying to connect the dots with everything. And I was like, if people got to know me better, they'd probably listen.

To your music more, you know?

Yeah, but I never thought that my social business would be as big as my music business. Really? It's insane. It's almost there now, or it's the same size. Arguably bigger.

What?

Arguably bigger. Holy cow.

How else are you monetizing besides, I guess, brand deals? Are you selling your own stuff now? Are you building your own businesses on the back end that are either silent or public? What else are you doing? Because I know you're a mastermind in business, and I think a lot of people think you're just an artist or just, you know, an entertainer, a musician, but I can see the moves you make and how you think brilliantly about your brand, the marketing, the messaging. Even when it seems silly or not thoughtful, I know it is. So what are the businesses you're building or the other revenue streams you're generating beyond the brand deals?

So now when a any company comes my way, if they are not, you know, the biggest companies in the world, I don't want to mention any brands. But if they're not the biggest brands in the world, they have to come with some sort of equity conversation. Like that now, you know? So it's like they can't, they can't, humbly speaking, they can't afford one post. Exactly.

So they got to give you something bigger.

Yeah. So if I believe in a brand, like, I can get ownership in so many different brands. you know, like this. And they come every day. It's like a new thing, you know? And you never, you never seen a deal that you didn't like, right?

So they all look amazing.

They all look amazing. But you gotta go for the ones that you personally love. Yeah. But that's a huge, huge win from socials as well, obviously. But I, the, the best thing that I like, man, honestly, and I'm not giving you a pop star answer like I've talked about before, but I love the fact that people got a real insight to my life. Like, people will ask me how my dog is, people ask me how my son is. Like, I think that's just like a beautiful thing. Like, I never met a person in my life, and they'll come and ask me how, like, like these personal things about me. And I just think that's really cool. That's beautiful. I feel like people have, like, a real inside now.

That's beautiful, man. What is the thing? that people don't know about you that you wish they knew. Because they see a certain side of you. Yes, they see a more personal behind the scenes side. But what is the thing that most people still don't know about you that you are either proud of, that you want them to know?

I don't think people realize the business side as of yet. and I'm okay with that. I think it's a little too soon for people to know exactly how deep it's going, but I'm just in a totally different headspace. When I'm in that business guru mode, it's really cool, man. But I just really enjoy building things from nothing. I think that's my, that's my passion. And so like writing a song is like building something from scratch. Real estate, I love, you know, building things from the ground up. Businesses is the same way. I love building the businesses from the ground up. And that's kind of been like my last like five years is just like starting something from scratch and then just like, yeah. you know, watching it grow.

Something you've done that has always impressed me and inspired me from the beginning of hearing, I think, your first song that kind of took off.

What was that?

2008, 2010. What was that? Nine.

2009.

Yeah.

Around that time, when I noticed it, and I'm assuming a lot of people noticed it, but that's something I noticed right away was you singing your name. -huh and I recognize a lot of songs, but I never know. the face of the singer or the name. I'm like, yeah, that's a catchy song, but I don't know who they are.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm not in the music world that much to, like, understand it. I'm like, oh, yeah, I know that song. Who is that person? I would. But I would never know their name or their face. Where did you get that from? That kind of like. Because. Because a lot of people are doing that now, and I feel like you were one of the first to do that. Where did that come from? Why has that been? powerful for you and personal brand, because I really feel like it's branded you personally in a beautiful way before personal branding was a thing. So where did that come from?

I. It was my first song. I was about to release what you say, and the song was done. It was originally a song for Sean Kingston. We had written it for Sean Kingston, actually, Sean. co-written on it as well. And the label didn't want it. His label didn't want the song. So we were like, that's making my first single. And had completed the song. It was all done. And I was just like, this could be my one chance, like, for the world to hear me. Like, if this if this song is going to be heard by all these people, at least, like, if I can get, like, a couple of million people to, like, hear my name, like, I'll be a. I'll. I'll still be building. I'll get myself to the next level, even if this song doesn't become a hit, you know, and that's where the idea came from. So I played around with, like, different ways to do it, and. What you hear now is the one that stuck. And boy, I didn't think that it was gonna stick like that.

It's stuck, man. It is stuck big. It's almost like, I'm not referring this in this way, but in a relatable way, it's almost like when you secure a commercial jingle over and over again. The way you say your name is a context similar to memorizing it. And you wanted to sing it that way, you know, 100% the audience wanting to sing it that way, which is brilliant.

Thanks, human.

Yeah.

So you tried it in a bunch of different ways?

Oh, yeah.

Like, what was it like? You were trying to sing it deep. You were trying to, like, just say.

That, and not listen to Jay. Nah, I'm Jay.

Jay.

Jay. Chasing. Chasing the road. Chasing the road.

That's it.

Yeah, really?

Something like that.

But I was in a booth.

Now, when you, when you did it on the song was the label, like, okay, that's cool. Or they were like, nah, we don't want your name in it. Like, it messes with the song.

Oh, there was no mention of that. Like, nah, I did my whole first album with one guy.

Okay.

Jr. Rodham, who was also the CEO of the record label that I was on. So we did the whole thing together, so, I mean, There was no egos or anything.

Now, did you get, did people comment on that during that time where they were like, oh, that's really cool. You should keep doing that. Or is that more your vision? I want to keep saying my name for people to remember it.

Well, after the first song came out, it was such a thing that I was like, dang, I should probably do it in my next joint.

Wow.

So I did it again in my next song, which was in my head. And then, when Ride in Solo came about, I was like, I'm gonna chill. I'm not gonna do it on this song.

How to do?

Yeah, it was great.

Still do great. Yeah.

But I feel like people, you know, know you from that as well. It's like another signature move of yours. 100. You know, like a signature dance move. It's like a signature audio move or something.

Yeah. I mean, I called the books, you know, sing your name out loud. But the reason I called it that is. It has. Has. I mean, of course there's correlation to that. But it's from, you know, speaking things into existence and using the power of the tongue, you know, just like speaking things out loud, you know, but I put it together with the song.

I think it's beautiful, man. I think it's beautiful, man. Now, I'm also curious because you are so gifted as a singer, like you mentioned, you were, I think you were classically trained or you did opera training. You did some different things. I've seen a lot of your singing on different shows of you doing that stuff. But you didn't you did more on the autotune thing in the first song. Why didn't you lead with your voice Without that in the first song? Was there a reason?

It's an artistic choice. Yeah, you know the Sample the Emotion Heap sample was a vocoder so like it matched so well with the vocoder.

You know.

So I mean that was that was you know the idea behind it, but it just seemed a like it was a crush. I mean, like it was a crutch. Like people thought, oh, he can't sing or whatever. And that was just around the time of, like, death of auto tune and all kind of crazy. I was, like, on the tail, tail end of that, that whole, like, right at the, I think, the beginning of that whole thing. So it was just, like, bad timing.

I mean, the song did great.

Yeah, it worked because nobody thinks of, when you think of death punk, you don't think, like, one more time, you don't think, like, Oh, like, he probably can't sing, you know what you're thinking? Like, oh, that's an artistic choice. But I think it was just the time period, you know, with the whole death of Auto Tune, it was just like, bad time.

Well, it still did well, though.

I did amaze.

Now, you talked about these kind of three moments that, you know, were essentially breakdowns that led to breakthroughs in the last 12 years.

Oh, man.

Was there a time that you doubted yourself the most, either during this or in any other moments? And if so, or a time where you just had other struggles with friends or family or just other stuff in life happening where you really doubted yourself? And if so, how did you overcome that doubt?

Right at the tail end of the pandemic, I told myself, I talked really, really down to myself and I said, you,'ve done so well in your life. You should probably just let, you should probably coast. It's time to coast, chill. Yeah, you've done so much. You've given so much. Like, relax, chill. and what that meant to me, just so I'm clear, so I'm clear to everybody else, it was like giving up. It was like, this is the end. And the end to me is when you're not pushing for the next level, you're not pushing to gain something else. and a couple of weeks passed and a couple of months passed and I was really, you know, putting my energy into TikTok. It was just like, okay, I'm not really messing with music, so I wasn't really like writing very many songs. And then I was like, when I was a kid, I dreamed of this place that I'm in right now.

Of getting to this place.

And my starting point, my starting point, if my starting point was here, my ending point was here. I had to jump from here to here. I have way less of a climb to be the best in the world here than from here to here, right? why stop right here? That's like stopping at 1997 pushups. What are you doing? You gotta hit those last three reps, bro. You have to hit those last three reps. Like, you can't stop at 97. And in that realization is when I was like, I have to get off of this record label that I'm on. I have to get a new deal. and go with a team that, like, really believes in me so that, like, I'm hearing, you know, great things from other people as well. I feel like I had too much negativity in my ears. And when all of this negativity is coming your way and then you're talking down to yourself, it just weighs you down. So I needed, like, new energy.

Interesting.

And then when I was able to get off the label, finally, after a battle, I thought the world was gonna be my oyster and then it was just gonna be like open arms, just like everybody's gonna want to sign me. It was the craziest thing in the world. Again, I had sold 200 million records at that point and crickets.

It was just like, no one wanted to sign you?

No one wanted to sign me.

But you were like the biggest social media star and selling albums and I.

Was really on the rise of social media, yes, but there was no music. there was no music since, like, Swala.

What year was that?

Swala was, like, 2017.

Oh, so it'd been. Yeah, four or five years.

2017, 2018, something like that. So, yeah, so it was like, can he still.

Does he still have it?

Yeah, this is probably the end of the road for him, you know, like that kind of vibe, you know, they didn't say that, but. like I was feeling it, you know what I'm saying? So I thought I was going to be able to go to the slam. It was crickets. It was like, oh, he's too expensive. Yeah, we don't know if we want to go in that direction. Oh, we already have this person. It's a little too. It was like that conversation. So that that put the biggest fire in my heart that you could possibly imagine. I was like, okay, I'm going to do this myself. I'm gonna do it myself. So that's when I went on a run and I put out Savage Love as a independent song.

That was huge.

Tissue Dancing as an independent song. And I was just dropping things independently.

And TikTok was blowing them up too. It was just like- Exactly. So everywhere.

-It was the biggest independent artist on the planet. And then all those same virtual lives were just like- Hey, Come on, what's up?

Yes.

I was like, nah, I'm straight, I'm straight, I'm straight, I'm straight, I'm straight. I'm not messing with you guys. So I went with Atlantic who I felt was aligned with my creative. They were aligned with what I wanted to do business-wise and on my masters and be a partner, not just signing to you, but we're gonna be 50-50 partners.

Wow.

And this and I'm going to be the label as well. So yeah, so like it was that blow that took me again, you know, sometimes it's your lowest lows that get you to your highest highs.

Man.

Yeah.

I feel like there's a lot of people, when they get money, fame, success, eventually they crumble or they don't know how to manage it or their ego gets too big or they start treating people poorly or just that kind of climb and then they fall.

Yep.

How have you learned to be consistently climbing while also maintaining your sanity, your inner peace, your self-love and self-care, as opposed to letting it all get to you too much where you crash and burn?

I think people stop and smell the roses too much. we know the roses are beautiful. We know they smell great, but we're on a path. We're on a journey. Life is a journey and it's a life journey. There's no destination because we can always be better. We can always be greater. We can always be a better version of us. And what happens is everybody usually makes their first their first steps are usually the great ones, right? When you're hungry, you don't necessarily know where your next meal is coming from. You're down in the dumps. You don't like how people are treating you. You want to be better in life. You want to have this, you want to have that, and you want girls to look at you a different way. You want to drive nice things, boom, boom, boom. But then when you arrive and you get those things, Even though it may be temporary, when you get them, it's like, oh, I'm good. I'm lit. I made it. And then you take a deep breath and you're like, oh, yeah, this life, this is what I've been waiting on. This is the stuff. But what you're forgetting is success is never owned. It's rented. There's so many hungry always. There's always somebody younger, hungrier, more talented. more driven than you are. So they're not gonna stop coming. That competition doesn't stop coming at you. Just because you've arrived here doesn't mean there's not millions of people just on your neck and waiting on that slot to open up.

I love the one of your rules for your dreams is, I think it's rule number four in the book, Success is for rent and you'll never pay it off. the rent is due every single day if you want to stay at that level or get to the next level.

Definitely.

Did you ever feel like there was a moment when you stopped paying rent and you saw, oh, this is really affecting me in a negative way? Or have you always been consistent in some way in your life?

I've always been really consistent in some way. Honestly speaking, I think my greatest gift is my work ethic. you know, I was blessed with a lot of things, but my, my biggest gift that I feel like was that.

Yeah.

How do you manage Fame now? Because you had a certain level of Fame before, sold over 200 million records before the social media fame, but now you're like a whole another level of people knowing you and connected to you in a different way. How did you manage it then versus how do you manage it now with people, more people in your business now?

I mean, I'm. I'm kind of, like, a average Joe kind of guy.

Okay. Yeah, I got the. I got the green hair. I got the. I got the. I got 100 million followers, you know, just kind of average Joe kind of guy.

No, what I mean is, like, I I'm not really, like, I'm not, like, really sensitive or, like, super emotional or, like, I'm just kind of, like, regular average dude, you know? Yeah. Yeah. So, like. I just want to be respected just like everybody else. And I know when I'm meeting people for the first time, it might be their only chance to ever meet me. So I generally try to make it the best situation that they could have had, right? Because it's the one chance. I just have a couple rules. When I'm eating, I don't do it when I'm eating. When I'm with my son, I don't do it when I'm with my son. At the age that he's at now, maybe down the line, you know, when he's a little older. And yeah, besides that, it's all good. Oh, when I'm working out, it's 50/50.

I saw you at the gym recently. We were both there. You were working out and I think you were with a trainer or a friend. And I knew you were gonna be coming on. But I was like, oh, he looks pretty focused. Next time, after we meet on the show, then I'll say hi next time.

Oh my God.

I'm curious, love is something that I feel like a lot of people want. They crave and they don't know how to manage. When do you feel the most loved in your life?

In a relationship or?

Anything.

I feel really loved in a relationship. when my girl or whoever I'm seeing cooks for me. Really?

Yeah.

It's like a real thing. I don't know if, like, it's the.

The.

Oh, like, I'm old fashioned or what it is, but, like, I am really. I just appreciate it so much, like, on a different level, I think, because. It seems like so underrated to other people, but I'm just like, like... You.

Feel taken care of or loved?

Yeah. Yeah, that's like the ultimate love to me. I guess, you know, it's true. The way to my heart is through my stomach for sure. I don't know if that's the fat boy in me or what it is, but like, oh, yes, she really messes with me. Like, she really cares. She cares. she put her heart and soul into this. I don't really, yeah. So that's my favorite.

Interesting.

And in my career, just in life.

When do you feel loved the most? When do you feel the most loved? Is it when you're have an idea, like you talked about, I got this idea and I'm gonna go work on this song or this video or this business. And the process is it when you've created something and people are resonating, they're sharing it, they're singing your music, Is it, you know, positive comments? Is it just hanging with your friends? Is it when your dog is laying on you? Like, when is that time?

Yeah, I think when I feel the most love is when I'm with my family. And we just have our moments. And I think it's usually around food and drinks.

Yeah, food. How do you stay so fit though with all this food and drinks?

I work out a lot, man.

'Cause you're shredded, man.

Oh, thank you, man.

How does a fat kid stay shredded?

Don't eat. No.

Are you pretty regimented on your. Your food intake and your calorie intake.

Or how do you.

Yeah.

So I I I've yo-yoed I've done every diet. I've done every fad, every single thing.

Fasting to keto to paleo to whatever.

Yeah.

Seven meals a day to several. Two meals a day.

Salmon shakes.

Yeah.

Liquid diet. Fruit diet. Literally everything under the sun. So I know exactly how each thing reacts to my body and how it works.

And.

I really try to now have a sustainable like asking my. My body, not asking too much of my body in terms of what I'm eating.

Right?

So I need. I need some sort of pleasure. I enjoy having a drink or two. I'm not willing to just go cold turkey and not have any drinks. So I know that in the back of my mind, I'm gonna have some carbs that are not great for me. So I need to do this, this, this, this, and this so that I can offset that. And I think it's the same for, I mean, I make these milli meals, which are these crazy desserts. And people are like, How do you eat those? And then, like, what is a milli meal? A milli meal is every time I get a million followers. I think I've seen this, like, a.

Big bucket of ice cream or something, or what are you, or what are.

You, I mean, all kinds of, like, crazy. I mean, I've made, like, fried ice cream tacos. Like, I made, like, humongous ice cream, a chocolate chip. sandwiches, like everything you can imagine, like a cotton candy sandwich, all kinds of crazy.

So when you hit a million followers, a million more followers, you'll do a big celebration with food. So I'm doing a lot of them. You got to invite me over for one of those, man. I know you're not gonna finish it all.

For sure. I don't, man. I don't. But I usually invite people over to have it. And it's nine times out of ten, really, really good. Sometimes it's not great, but. Wow. But yeah, it's all about trying to, you know, it's a balance. You know, if I know I'm gonna have that million meal at night, I might fast, you know, or I might have bone broth with some veggies on it, you know? And that's usually been the game changer for me. But if I'm trying to like get shredded for something, then I go crazy. So like for instance, I'm going to Bali. you know, in a couple of days, and I'm gonna shoot a music video for Glad youd Came. My new song is about to come out. So I want to look, like, super duper, like, I'm gonna look like a bug.

Wow. So you're eating, like, one meal, like, a thousand calories a day and doing cardio on this.

I'm doing bone broth, so I'm doing. Yeah, I have, like, a little something. So, like, earlier today, I had, like, some popcorn. Okay. And I got a couple grapes and, like, horse. That's watermelon. and then like bone broth with veggies in it. So it's not terrible. It's not terrible. Watermelon and popcorn, game changers.

Wow.

Barely any calories. It's lit.

I've got a couple final questions for you. This has been really inspiring and I'm so glad that you're opening up about all these different areas of your life and business and branding. So much has happened for you in the last really 12 years with these, well, I guess 14 years with these kind of three big moments It's 2013, 2023. Where do you see the next seven years? What's the vision you have for the next seven years of what you want to be doing with your time, the things you want to be creating in the world, and the impact you want to have by 2030?

I asked a lot of really high level people to give me a quote. advice to the reader, right? And how they could help the reader succeed. And I asked a lot of really high level people that I didn't think would respond or do it, and they did. There's a lot of amazing people in there, you know, from Will Smith to Ellen DeGeneres to David Guetta, all kinds of amazing people. and I was. I. I asked.

I.

There's, like, some white billionaires in there that I really respect. And I asked two people that it was really important for me to have two high level black guys with high net worths. So I asked Tyler Perry. I asked. He's inspiring. Yeah. And I asked Magic Johnson, and.

They.

They didn't. They didn't give me the quotes, man.

Really?

You know that really.

Why not?

That really. It really did something to me, huh? Because I specifically said, as a young black man, When I, before I became, you know, who I am today, and I was reading this book and I was trying to be inspired, I would want to hear from somebody that I thought was overly successful to know that I can do it as well. And I said that to them. I said, listen, you know, it's really important for you, for our community, for you to like, to say something, share something. It could be literally anything.

It could be five words.

Five words. It would just mean a lot to that little black kid to hear from you. And they didn't respond.

Interesting.

But that just put a little more fuel to my fire to now, like, I have to become that guy.

Wow.

Because I need to be that. I want to be that voice. I really want to. inspire and let them know that it's a possibility. You know, the kids where I'm from, you know what I'm saying? So I want to be able to speak those words myself if I couldn't get it from somebody else. That's beautiful, man. Yeah, thank you. Thank you.

That's inspiring. What do you want people to say about you? And how you want to be remembered?

I hope people understand. that the majority of the things that I do is as a act of service. You know, I think we're all put here for a specific purpose. And the majority of what I do in my life is not for personal gain. It's for some sort of act of service to somebody else. Even before I pray before every single show. I always mention the fact that I'm dedicating this show to anybody that's on the audience that needs to be inspired, that needs that's going through something that, like, needs a pick me up. So, like, it's always like, you know, it's like, what can I do for somebody else? Like, what is the. How is this going to impact somebody? How is this gonna. Gonna be a small part of their life to help better the. You know what I'm saying? So I hope that. I can be remembered as that, someone who is always thinking about the next person.

Wow, that's beautiful, man. I love it. I've got three final questions for you before we get into them. Sing your name out loud, 15 rules for living your dream. We'll have it up here on the video. We'll have it in the audio description and everything. Make sure you guys get a copy. I've gone through a lot of it. Really inspiring. I love your rules. and I love how you talk about each one of these. We only talked about a few of them today. We'll have to get you back on in the future and talk about more, but so many powerful nuggets with inspiring lessons that I think anyone could resonate with. And again, it's really cool to see you where you've come from to be able to build the business, the platform, the health, the life that you have using these rules.

Yeah, for sure.

And so I want people to get a copy, give them to your friends, Get a few copies and make sure to check it out again. We'll have it all linked up. You've also got a new song. Depending when this comes out, it's either out right now or it'll be coming out soon.

Yeah.

I heard it before. It's really catchy, man. All your stuff has been super catchy. Thank you, brother. But tell us about that and the.

Best place for us to listen to it. I'm so glad you came, man. It's one of my favorite songs that I've done in a long time. And one of my favorite songs I've.

Ever written in general.

It talked about the power of destiny and how one moment can kind of change their life forever. You know, the fact that I met this girl in this location at this club, if I would have never danced with her that whole night, she would have never been my girl. You know, we were just in the right place at the right time. So yeah, it's a beautiful love story that talks about the power of destiny. Wow. So yeah, I really love this. I'm excited for people to sink their teeth into it. It has like an 80s vibe to it.

Where's the best place for us to listen?

Oh, you know, it's available everywhere.

Yeah. Where do you like to send people though to? Wherever they are.

Spotify, the best. Spotify, yeah.

Is that the spot right now? Yeah, yeah, check it out. Very excited, man. We're gonna have everything linked up, obviously, if you're not following Jason on social media, Jason DeRulo everywhere on social media, so make sure you're following. if you're the seven people that haven't followed him yet, make sure to check out one of his platforms. This is a question I ask everyone at the end called the three truths. So imagine a hypothetical scenario. It is your last day on Earth, many years away.

Yeah.

You live as long as you want to live and you get to accomplish every dream you have. All your rules, you keep putting them into practice to accomplish every dream.

Yep.

But for whatever reason, in this hypothetical scenario, You got to take all of your music, your books, this conversation, it all disappears. So no one has access to your content anymore, all your social media content, everything you've ever said for whatever reason is gone, hypothetically. But you get one final message to share with the world. It could be a song with three lessons that you would share, three truths. And this is all we have to remember you by. what would be those three lessons or three truths that you would want the world to know?

Wow. So basically my it's like my commandments.

Yes. Three of them.

I would say I would say first life is short. Don't spend your life doing something that you don't love, that you're not obsessed with, that you are not waking up every day excited to do. It's not about the money because at the end of the day, I've been on both sides. And it's not the destination that's the great part. It's the journey. I've had the best time of my life creating this path, like on the journey. My favorite times that I can remember are the times where I was laid up at night writing the song, not getting any sleep. Those are the moments. It's not driving in a Rolls Royce. That's not like a dope memory to me. I'm not like, remember that time we drove in a... Never. When it's all said and done and, you know, your life is over and you want to be like, oh, I spent my life doing the things that I love. That's like A1.

Number one.

Number two. protect your peace. That's the circle that you have around you, the people that are around you. You are some of those people. And if they are feeding you negative energy and if they're feeding you negative comments, that can easily soak into yourself and you can start believing the things that they say. you need people around you that think that you're greater than you think you are so that you can continue bringing yourself up. But your peace of mind is more important than any relationship, than any amount of money, peace of mind, man. So protect your peace. If somebody thinks somebody's off, like dead, dead, make sure that you can continue to move. in a way that is your zen, whatever your zen is staying there. Okay, and then number three, oh, that works for a job, that works for your job as well. You know, if you have a toxic boss or you have, you know, toxic other employees that work with you, like you need to escape that situation in somewhere or another, 'cause you don't wanna bring that kind of energy home with you.

I don't think I've ever heard you talk like this publicly. Sharing this private stuff.

Yeah, I probably haven't, honestly. You know, honestly, writing this book, I feel like really changed me as well in a way, because it forced me to, like, remember all of the things, all of the positive things that I've done and all of the negative things and all the times that I've fallen on my face and all of the times that I succeeded and, like, what those things were, like, it forced me to, like, really dig down deep. It was like, oh, that was that moment that I failed because of that. And oh, I won that because I was doing this. Like it really kind of took me on a memory lane. So I even learned a lot about myself and about life through writing this book. Like this couple of years writing this book has been really eye opening. And sometimes when you know something and you teach it, You know it a lot better, 100%. Yeah. Yeah.

So, third truth.

This is a personal one for me. This one you can take or leave, but this is personal to me in my life. Family over everything. I have had many girlfriends in my life. I've had many friends in my life. people come in and my life come and go.

And.

My family has always been there, you know, and through my lowest times, those are the people that I can count on the most, you know, is my blood, you know, my flesh and blood, my inner, I should say, my specific household, my household that I grew up in, yeah. you know, it's moments like when I broke my neck and like, there was no sign of we didn't know whether I was gonna be able to get back on the road and like be successful anymore. Like we didn't know what was next. Um, but like I was able to turn to family, you know what I'm saying? And growing up, I was always really more drawn to my family than my friends. And I had a, I had a pretty big family, so I was, I was blessed in that area. But yeah, friends can get you in trouble. And at the end of the day, if you had some bones buried somewhere, who are the people, who are the people that you think that you could trust to tell, you know, or if you had like some buried treasure somewhere, who's the person that you think could go and help you and, like, wouldn't tell anybody else? Like, who are those people in your life? Keep those people as close as possible because they don't come down with a dozen, you know? Right? So that's beautiful. Family over everything.

I love that. Before I ask the final question, I want to acknowledge you, Jason, for. For opening up, man, for being. For being super real and authentic. Again, I think a lot of people see short content from you, which is inspiring and entertaining, but. I've never heard a long-form interview with you, really, in this way. I hear, you know, five-minute stuff.

It's you, man. You got that special judge, man. You get it out of people.

But I appreciate and acknowledge you for how you inspire people, how you show up consistently, how you, you know, dedicate to your craft, how you continue to strive for excellence. So I want to acknowledge you for everything you've done and everything you're gonna keep doing, man. It's really inspiring to watch. and next time I'll join in the gym and get some reps in with you.

Absolutely.

Final question, what's your definition of greatness?

Definition of greatness. The definition of greatness to me is thriving at the highest level in any arena, whether it's math or whether it's music or whether it's social media. being able to consistently, I gotta use that word, consistently thrive at the highest level. I hope today's episode inspired you on.

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