Matthew Hussey's Expert Tips for Attracting and Maintaining True Love

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You do expect something in a relationship, right? It's overly simplistic. We do expect things. We expect respect as loyalty defined on whatever terms loyalty means to us. Love, appreciation, all of that. To be seen, we have a lot of expectations in a relationship. So it's not a relationship where we just, we give without expectation. But that to me is where the building thing is really interesting to me.

Welcome to the School of Greatness.

My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. Welcome to today's special episode. Over the last 1300 plus episodes, there have been so many impactful interviews that.

I've been lucky enough to have, and.

I always like to reflect on some.

Of the most powerful.

And this episode was one that resonated with most of you guys in the past, and I'm excited for the value it's going to bring you today as well. So I hope you enjoy today's episode.

There's a lot that's happened in the last four years. Because Tinder really started exploding, you know, four years ago, I think. It was kind of four, three, two years ago that it was coming around.

And perhaps lost its taboo maybe in that time.

Yeah, exactly. And then all the other apps came out to make it more accessible to swipe left and swipe right. And Instagram became a dating app essentially in itself. Snapchat and all these social media apps are just now, Dating and looking at, there's thousands of options. It seems like there's so many good options yet not one great option for anyone.

When you say, they've all become dating apps, then it makes me feel we've come full circle, 'cause wasn't that the original point of Facebook, was to go on and see who on college campus is single, you know, who's, that to me is- who's the cute freshman coming in? Yeah, we kind of started there and we're, you know, it's now just many different ways to do it. Obviously social media is used for many different things, but I think anything that makes easier the ability to meet people, Cal Newport in his book, the Happiness Advantage, talks about the activation energy required for a task. And the higher the activation energy, the less likely it is you'll do something you want to get yourself to do. So he uses the example of like, if you want to play guitar, keep it by the couch so that when you sit down to watch the TV, oh, the guitar's there. Up in the closet, upstairs, and you have to go in. Now the activation energy is higher, you're less likely to practice playing the guitar. And I feel like the activation energy of meeting people, when people had to go out to a bar, you know, dress up, look the part, see someone across the bar, think about what they're gonna say, take the risk to get rejected in front of someone's friends or in front of their own friends, The activation energy was really high. And people, I think, whether they admit it or not, love the idea of the activation energy being really low. That I can slide into someone's DMs on Instagram and hit someone up with very minimal effort. I could be in my pajamas watching some TV show doing that. And I've also minimized the potential rejection.

From that.

The rejection isn't happening. It doesn't hurt. It's not happening in real time at the very least. You might have the rejection of I never got a response.

But it doesn't hurt.

Not when looking someone in the eye.

No.

Your heart's not beating out of your chest. It's not real time rejection of I approached you and you're now being cold to me, or you don't want to speak to me, or you tell me.

You have a boyfriend or a girlfriend. That's like, you know you're lying. Do you really have a boyfriend?

How many times you go up to a girl when they say, I've got a boyfriend, thank you.

You're lying to me.

I just didn't do well.

I know.

So that is, you know, we've lowered the activation energy for meeting each other. And that, I think, has saved a lot of people. But it's also done something else.

It's hurt a lot of us.

It's interrupted a little bit, maybe a lot, the story of attraction. You know, I thought about this recently, how if, let's say before any of this, there was a man who meets a woman when they're out in some social environment, they exchange numbers. He goes home and he has to call her right now. That takes guts. I have to pick up the phone, I have to have a conversation. And, you know, already I'm kind of investing, if you know what I mean. Before I've even made the phone call, I'm investing because I'm thinking, what am I going to say? And how do I come across right? And how do I steal my nerves. That's a form of investment and we tend to value what we invest in. So I'm now already beginning to value this person more because I'm having to try at something.

Because I met her, I got her number, exchanged information, and I'm thinking about the next step.

And even just, by the way, the meeting someone out and exchanging numbers, there's a story already happening there. It worked. I went over to someone and it worked.

And there's a potential for something.

Oh my God, yeah. She could have said no. And she didn't. And I knew, and I thought I was attracted to her, and I went over there, and I did the thing.

She confirmed it.

And it worked, and now I have a number, and this is a story that's happening. You go home, you think about it, make the call.

You tell your friends about it.

Tell your friends, I asked a friend to help me. I met this girl. I met this girl. You gotta hear about this girl. You gotta see this girl. Adding to the story.

Yeah.

Now, You go on a date. That date, you have a great time, where am I gonna take this person, what am I gonna do? After the date, you go home and you might have to wait three days or four days till the next date with this person. And in those three or four days, you may not consider it work, but you are working for that person. There's a chasing that's going on in your mind. There's an investment that's going on in your mind, an imagination the narrative that's happening. And that is all part of that kind of natural courtship that pulls us into the next stage of the interaction, whether it's date two, date three, date four, exclusivity, moving in together, whatever it is. Now compare that with someone, you know, hits someone up, swipes, we got a match, okay, there's like no, Activation energy to that, really. We got a match. Who are they? Okay, read their tagline. Loves, you know, dancing on the brain, whatever they, you know. Okay, yeah, well, yeah, so what's up? You all right? You know, you want to hang out? Then, you know, let's go for a quick drink. They get out together. He comes back or she comes back from a date to five more matches. Before he's even got time to process whether he had a good time and what was it about this person?

What?

There's already more options coming at someone. There's more. Or at the very least, you can go home and just explore more options from your bed that night after a date. So this interrupting the circuitry, which will.

Give you more dopamine, which will give you more excitement.

Yeah, you're getting attracted to the novelty again right now. Not the depth of where this thing might now lead. Now, I'm not saying that that's insurmountable and that we're just all, this is not me painting a picture of doom and gloom about current dating. I do think there is a toxicity, there is a toxic element to modern day dating, but it's not, I'm not defeatist about that. I just think that the impact we make on people in the time we have with them becomes that much more important.

Yeah.

Because you can no longer rely on being the only person they're talking to that week or that month.

They might be at five dates that week and 100 messages from guys.

And probably today, for a lot of people, it's less likely they're on five dates this week, but they're talking to 10 people this week.

Yeah.

You know, a lot of people are going on fewer dates than everyone thinks. People are having a lot less sex. than everyone thinks. But what's happening is there's a lot of nonsense conversations. Superficial, you know, going nowhere, incessant texting conversations.

Crazy, right?

Happening.

And no one's actually even just getting on the phone and talking, are they?

Not unless they wanna be different.

Right.

And that's where it really begins to shift, is you have to be the person who's different?

That takes a risk, stands out.

Yeah, well, and that's the current question, is in a world with more noise than ever, and for all of your people out there watching right now, everything I think we talk about here in this hour, we can apply to business too. Of course. We can apply everywhere. I get hired to go do speeches for corporates where I apply what I've learned in 10 years of attraction and relationships to business. Because it's the same thing going on everywhere right now. There is so much noise. Everyone's talking in business too, right? It used to be that you were, you know, in a, if you were a personal trainer, you were competing with the five personal trainers on your gym floor and maybe down the street at the other local gym. And that was the, those were the people that were your competition.

Now everyone's a fitness trainer.

Now anyone with an Instagram account and a six-pack is your competition. Who's trying to sell their digital program or trying to convince people that they don't need to go to their local trainer, that I might be the other side of the world, but I've got something special for you, that you should do it with me. So the whole thing has opened up. What that means is that you can no longer rely on just the scarcity of people to be special. I'm the only one in town. Yeah, even if you live in a small town, that someone's options are only limited to the radius they set their dating app to.

That's it, right? Three miles around.

If I wanna expand it out by another state, I got a lot more options. So we now can no longer rely on that. We have to be We have to have a voice that defines us. We have to have a voice that makes us different, you know, from your business. How many podcasters keep joining every day, every day, every day? You no longer can rely on having the market share simply because you're doing podcasting, right? You have to now be a voice that's different. Why are people, people only have so many hours in a week, right? This is a long-form podcast. It's, you know, the interview's an hour or so on. Why are people going to sit with their limited hours and listen to my hour instead of these other six or 10 top podcasters? Because we can't listen to them all. So now your voice matters. Most people, I believe, who think they are evolved enough for a relationship are not.

Right.

When do you know it's long time.

By the way, I count myself in that category. Me too.

I was thinking, Me too, man.

I really thought, there were times in my life where I really thought I was a great, I was a great guy. I wasn't a, it wasn't that I was ever a nasty person. I was never a mean person. I was never a, that wasn't the great partner I thought I was. It's not like I, there are times in my life where I thought, God, I'm just, I'd just be a great partner to someone. And I was not ready to be a great partner to someone because I think the first time you really give yourself to something, Really commit yourself to not just your own happiness and your own needs, because that's what most people talk about when they talk about a relationship, is their needs, their happiness, right? How good it feels to be in a relationship. It's about them. But it's not about seeing someone else, truly seeing someone else. and understanding who they are and understanding what their needs are and supporting them and their happiness and their goals.

It's a great relationship when you stop thinking about your needs and you just say, I'm gonna give to this person and look at them from a place of understanding and want to bring them so much joy and fulfillment and not expect in return, but hopefully the other person is saying the same thing about you.

Well, Yes and no. There's a lot of, there are a lot of people who on that idea, that ethos, have lived a very masochistic life for a long time.

Really?

That, by the way, what you just described could describe one of two things. One beautiful, one terrible. What you just described could either be an extraordinary Relationship of two givers, or it could describe unrequired love. It could describe the person who is giving, giving, giving, giving, giving to someone and playing the martyr in their own relationship. They keep ignoring me. They keep, you know, not meeting my needs. They keep being selfish. They keep, but I am just gonna show up and be my best. The best partner. And love them. and give my all, and one day they will turn around to meet me in that. Many, many people have caused tremendous suffering to themselves and wasted a lot of good years.

So is it both give to yourself, make sure you're asking for what you need, but also giving?

It's a combination of respecting what your core needs are, What do I need? Like when it really comes down to it, what's my standard for what I need? Now, how exactly someone meets that standard is that's where the messiness of relationships comes in. Because you say, I want to be respected, and then someone does something and you go, I don't feel respected, but they go, But that doesn't mean a lack of respect to me. So now we have a whole conversation on the execution of a standard.

Oh my God.

And different definitions of what meets that standard. That's where the confusion comes in. And that's where we have to have some really loving, cooperative conversations to figure out, am I, you know, am I being, this is one of the hardest parts of a relationship. Am I being reasonable in asking for what I'm asking for? Or is this my insecurity speaking?

Oh, wow.

You know, am I, which one is talking? And sometimes we're so close we don't even know. that's the danger. That's, by the way, I see one of the most valuable jobs I can do for people in my work is not to be a smarter voice than they are, because people can be great. They can, when it comes to their friends or people around them or whatever, they can be very smart. But to be an objective voice outside of their drunken haze, because we're so close to something we get, We're not sober and now we don't have logical answers to questions because someone's, we get to the point we're arguing about something. I don't even know if I'm right. I don't know if the thing I'm saying is, if I'm being the insecure one or if I'm being the reasonable one. And sometimes we leave a situation and we go, God, I was insecure. And sometimes we leave and we go, I can't believe I let someone convince me I was crazy.

Right.

They were the one that was doing the wrong thing and they convinced me that I was nuts.

So how do we step out of that emotional feeling where we're feeling overwhelmed or disrespected or hurt or sad or like their relationship didn't meet an expectation or communication was off and we're in it and we're communicating and we're both frustrated. How do you step out and look at it from a different point of view so that you just don't keep repeating that conversation over and over. I mean, don't hurt it further.

Further.

Yeah, I think we have to have a really healthy combination of always questioning ourselves and saying, where is this coming from for me? And would it really hurt me to compromise on this standard? Would it be the more loving thing to do to understand this about my partner? But in order to, that needs to be combined with a simultaneous respect for ourselves. and what we need. And to, I think, go to a situation and say, okay, I want to be the most understanding, compassionate, loving partner I can be, who doesn't inhibit or limit my partner, who supports them, wants them to do great. But I also need to recognize that I need to be the person that is understanding of the needs of my partner and what they want. But at the same time, I need to be understanding of my partner's needs, but the context of me being super compassionate and understanding needs to be that I am, that this is happening in a loving environment where my partner wants to be my teammate. If we're in a situation where our partner isn't showing empathy for us and isn't like, if you feel they're not trying to, that we're always coming to that side, That's a problem.

That's tough.

That's a problem.

There should be seeing, I see where you're coming from as well, type of energy and communication.

Exactly.

Not just, I'm not getting what I want, you did this wrong.

You need to feel you have a teammate.

Yeah.

And a lot of people feel like they're constantly being understanding, but they don't have a teammate on the other side. I'm constantly trying to grow and understand your position, but I don't feel the same from your side. that then becomes a problem.

How do you have the conversation so that it switches or becomes more of a equal partnership and teammate? If you feel like you're the only one being on the team, how do you get the other person?

I think we need to communicate a lot about what, about the spirit of the relationship. You know what I mean?

Like, not keeping score.

Yeah. Like, pride is a very hard thing to give up in a relationship. because we become competitive often very quickly when we feel threatened, when we feel vulnerable, when we feel our partner's done something to hurt us. Now, how do I score a point? Or how do I- Right. And that's, that's a just, once you get into that cycle, it's like you're just, it spirals. It has to, one person has to be prepared to break, that cycle. I'm not gonna do that game. And I do believe that we have to love the way we wanna be loved, and we have to constantly educate our partner on what it is to love, not from an arrogant place, but we're all, in a sense, both partners are always educating each other. You do something I don't like, and if I have a loving, compassionate response to that, I'm also showing you what I want this to be in Reverse. When I do something you don't like, right, here's the response I want.

Not attacking you.

Not a game playing response. Not a, you know, like, if you see a partner, you're in the early stages of relationship, and you feel your partner was really flirting with someone over there, having a conversation about something that made you feel uncomfortable, but from a loving place and from a kind place and from a place of that made me feel it hurt me to see that and not, I'm going to blame you and I'm going to do this, I'm going to get angry. But that, you know, that made me feel uncomfortable. Bringing an energy like that. Most people aren't used to that in a relationship. We're not used to that standard of communication. We're used to doing something and then someone attacks us.

Reacting.

Yeah, exactly. So I think it's educate, we're constantly educating.

What's it going to take for us to not react to a situation where we feel hurt or like we are an expectation wasn't met from our partner and come from that place?

God, it's so difficult.

Because why do we react so much?

Sometimes it's just space. I need to take a moment to process something so that I can say, I can have a more evolved response.

And not react. It's funny, the relationship I've been in, which is newer in the last five months, I want to talk about something right away and address it. She doesn't want to talk. She wants to have space so she doesn't react. And she'll say, I don't want to get angry at you. I don't want to yell at you. That's not the type of person I want to be. So I'd rather just not talk. And then I'm in limbo and I'm like, I just want to resolve this thing. Let's at least communicate and then we can move on as opposed to holding on to something. for half a day or a few hours.

Here's the thing, space is easy when you get a text you don't like or when you see something you don't like from afar and you're not gonna see that person for a few hours or till tomorrow. Now you have space to go through, you know, I'm angry, you know, I'm really, really angry, I'm upset, I'm sad, I'm hurt, I feel rejected, I don't feel enough, I, you know, you can kind of cycle through those and then have a couple of sensible conversations with people whose opinions you respect. You and I have- yeah, but we'd.

Be like, It's not that big a deal. Take a break.

This thing, I'm feeling this and I'm hurt and I'm this and I'm that and I'm that. And you have a couple of smart voices either that come from in here.

Which is hard to do.

Which is very hard to get that objectivity. And, or that come, you know, from just one or two people. whose opinions you really respect, who aren't going to tell you what you want to hear.

Yeah.

Who aren't going to tell you you're so right to feel that way.

Get angry.

Yeah.

Someone who is brave enough and close enough to you and smart enough sometimes to recognize, I'm concerned that you're overreacting to this. And that this reaction is not going to serve you.

Yeah.

And that I think you need to bring this energy to the conversation. that is extremely valuable. What's hard is when you get information in real time and you're with the person and you're in the same room and now you're dealing with trying to process and create that, you know, okay, I need to, I'm trying to get to a more positive place here while being asked to communicate in real time. Well, real time elicits reflex responses, and reflex responses are often very harmful to a relationship. It's the reflex responses are often based on instinct. And instinct is very wrong.

False instinct.

You're so often told, you know, trust your instincts. And that's just not often great advice.

If you're not emotionally intelligent and if you're jealous all the time, then having a jealous instinct isn't necessarily the best thing.

But some of these instincts are kind of hardwired.

Right?

What we're doing with a lot of our better nature is overcoming certain programming that we have. In a riptide, you get pulled out to sea. Your instinct tells you in that moment to swim back to shore against the current. Ignore the riptide. I just need to get back to shore. Which is stronger, you or the current?

The current.

And it will drown you. You will exhaust and drown before you get back.

True. Until it washes you to shore, just like that.

Right, so in that moment, fighting harder won't save you. Thinking clearer will. And thinking more clearly means I need to swim sideways. I need to swim parallel. Let it take me out, swim further or swim parallel. It's gonna be uncomfortable. Because I'm giving myself a longer journey. But then when I'm out of the current, then I can swim back to shore.

Yeah, that's true.

Now that's not, instinct won't get you to do that, 'cause that requires thinking clearly. Instinct will drown you in that moment. And in a relationship, in dating, your instincts will get you killed.

That's true.

You know, your instinct says, a woman goes on a date with a guy and has a great time, and says, your instinct says, clear the calendar for the next three months. We found him.

Right.

We did it, guys.

We had an amazing night.

Clear the schedule.

We were connected on every level.

He's awesome. We have a great connection. Clear the calendar. This is what we're doing now.

Wow.

Even if I'm not even saying someone hates the rest of their life. You can like your job and still be so caught up in the chemical rush of this was amazing that this is all you want to do now, right? Well, this isn't good for what you want to happen here. What do you want to happen? Well, you want to get to know this person better, spend more time with them. Invest at an organic Pace based on the level of investment that's going on. Right. Thing I've said for years. Don't invest in someone based on how much you like them. Invest on. Based on how much they invest in you. People don't do that. People invest on instinct. I really like them. And my investment is proportionate to how much I like them, not how much I'm seeing there's a mutual investment. Did I tell you about the castle?

One castle.

All right. This is, you're gonna like this. So I was thinking about this whole idea of investment.

Like buying a castle?

Well, that's the thing. You can't buy a castle. for a relationship. I see to me the relationship is the castle. When you meet someone and you have a connection, because I'm always, you know me, I do seminars all over the world. We have thousands of women come and join us. And the thing that there's always someone who puts their hand up and says, it starts the story with Matt, I have this incredible connection with this guy.

So they're already in a relationship.

No, no, no.

They're just dating.

Often not. Now I know we have a problem. when someone's justifying whatever they're about to say next with what an incredible connection they have with someone. An incredible connection is like you meet someone, you connect and you have a great plot of land. This plot of land could be great because it's in the middle of a forest, could be great because it's on the cliffs overlooking the ocean. It's a beautiful place to build.

That's the connection.

That's the connection. But it's still just a plot of land. All right, let's see it for what it is. It's potential. Still just a plot of land. Now what you need is two Builders, two people who are going to build something here. And that requires two people who show up each day and lay brick. after brick, after brick, after brick, and slowly but surely create a castle. Most people have the experience of someone who joins them on that plot of land and they both look at it and they're like, Isn't this great? Look at the ocean. This is great. Look at the view we have here. Look at the trees. This is amazing. And they get real excited. Now, one of them might be willing to build. One of them might be a builder. The other one might just really like the potential of this plot of land. And then you have someone who's there building every day. They're doing the investment. I have the woman come to me who's building and a guy who's left the construction site. I don't know where he is. He's at home. He's binge watching his favorite show. He's out on another. He's looking at another plot of land. You know, and then three weeks later he calls in and says, you know, he sends a text to her after three weeks of ghosting her or just disappearing or just patchy communication and says, thinking of you. That's a builder who started building, then left the building site for three weeks and called him from home and went, how's the castle going? Meanwhile, she's over there building the castle on her own. You can't build on your own. And the problem we have right now is there are too many people who value the connection instead of the castle. Castle is where it's at. And if you don't have a true builder who over time is gonna build, that's what a relationship is. A castle. This is why love at first sight is to me.

Doesn't work.

I can't, it's just whatever.

It takes time.

It's infatuation. She's hot, he's hot. you know, there's some connection there that's based on the fact you like this and I like this. Oh my God, we're supposed to be together. This is only part of the equation. A castle becomes a castle because two people work on it and it becomes unique and ornate and there are secret passageways only the two of you know about. And there's an argument that knocks down a wall and then you build it up and fortify that wall and it makes it even stronger and the weather over time weathers the stone on the castle in a unique way that makes it your castle. There's other castles in the world, but this one is uniquely yours. It's been built by the two of you. It's been hard. One. That's a relationship. That's why, you know, a 20-year relationship or marriage or 30-year relationship or marriage is special. It's because two people have had to go through together.

Yeah.

They've done things together. This isn't fantasy. This isn't building a castle in the sky. The idea of love, the idea of what we could be. The one day wager, I call it the one day wager. The one day, I'm making a wager that one day you'll be what I want you to be. One day you'll invest in me the way I want you to. One day you'll change. The one day wager is the most dangerous wager you can possibly making your love life. The real is what's going on now. Is someone trying? Do they want to be here? Are they focused on the little, not just the big? Because anyone can go and have a, like, people said, but when we're, when it's great, it's amazing.

Yeah.

When we go, like, we go, we've been on some amazing dates or we did that vacation. We had the best time. It was amazing. Of course you were. vacation. Anyone can go to Disney World and have a great time. It's Disney World.

Right?

That's the. It's the job of the place, is to make sure you have a great time no matter who you're with.

Right, right.

But.

You know what? When I was 13, I had a, like, when I was, I think I was 12 or 13, my parents took me to America for the first time. And we came to Florida. Where do you think we went? We went to Disney World. And I was massively excited. I was so excited. I was excited to be in America. I was excited to see the things I'd seen on TV. Excited to see the references to movies I'd seen, excited for the rides. We go into Disney World and I learned Something very interesting about myself there. This is gonna sound profound for a trip to Disney World, but- 13, yeah. But I realized something about myself. 'Cause of course, I go in there, it's magical, it's, oh my God, this is crazy. It's huge.

Taking a photo with Mickey, you- Space.

Mountain, yeah, there's Mickey there, there's all these dazzling attractions. But it was something that stood out to me. Even more than Space Mountain, even more than the big ride. And it was the trash cans.

Oh, yeah.

On some level that maybe I couldn't fully articulate at that age, I saw the trash cans and I was moved by it. I said, Someone Cared enough about this.

Place.

To theme the trash cans. The trash can in Tomorrowland is a futuristic trash can. The trash can in, you know, Indiana Jones Land or whatever it's called is a tiki bamboo trash can. The trash cans were different depending on where you were.

It's amazing.

Someone cared so much about the detail of that world. that they styled and themed the trash cans. It moved me.

Yeah.

I've never forgotten that. Wow. The trash cans in life. And I've thought about that endlessly in my business. When I do retreat, I just got back from my retreat. And someone came. I told this story on the retreat. Someone came to me at the end of the retreat because of all the little details we put on the retreat, you know, the little. It's not just a. It's not just a seminar or an event. We hold parties and inside experience. It's an immersive world. We like to think we've created the immersive theater of the self-development world. And someone came up to me at the end of this retreat and said, you, achieved trash can status.

Mm.

And it-- that's big. The 13-year-old in me wanted to cry.

Wow, that's amazing.

Right? It moved me again and I thought, that's what I want.

And.

I thought about this even today as I was coming here and I was like, you know what? This absolutely applies to relationships too. Often in a breakup, often when people are going through difficult times with their partner or whatever, the thing they go back to is we had that amazing trip. But we had those amazing times. They go to these highlights. They go to the Space Mountain of their relationship. They go, I remember when we met Mickey. It's that, right? The meeting Mickey moment of their relationship. But relationships are about the trash cans, man. It's the trash cans.

Yeah.

'Cause guess what? In a day at Disney, you ride Space Mountain once, maybe twice. How many times do you use the trash cans?

Every day. All the time.

Every 20 minutes, every 30 minutes. It's the trash cans. And what will define your relationship is the trash cans, not Space Mountain.

The lower moments. The messy moments.

That are barely noticeable. The moments, the micro attractions. The moment where we do something sweet, where we think of our partner when we didn't need to, and we worry about the day they had or support them or even just support them silently or in private, you know, or support them by what we don't bring to them. It's that. It's the detail. It's the detail. And that's what's going to determine how great your life is. And My concern is, and we've all been there, my concern is the number of people out there who are staying in the wrong thing because of the Space Mountain of the relationship.

A few moments that were magical.

Or they're spending too much time grieving the loss of the wrong thing because all they remember is Space Mountain.

Interesting.

But they don't think of How trash cans were. And the trash cans, that's the stuff. That's the day to day. How good was it day to day? This is the difference between being in love and being happy.

What is the difference between love and happiness?

You can be in love and be really unhappy.

Be suffering inside and be in love.

You can have constant be in love and be having a relationship that's causing you constant anxiety, constant heartache. Constant pain, feeling overlooked, not feeling important. You can be in love and all of those things still be true. How crazy is that? We think that love is this thing where it's like, it's rational, like I'm gonna love, I'm gonna be in love with this person who brings me joy. Not true. And we need to start worrying more about happiness. Because if someone isn't building with you, If someone isn't committing to actually building the castle with you, that's the quality of your life.

Yeah.

Not how in love you are.

You might love certain things about them. You might have loved the date you went on. You might have loved the Space Mountain.

Or the-- Certain characteristics they had.

The sex was incredible.

How charming they were, how charismatic, how whatever. It didn't, but maybe, it doesn't mean that you're happy day to day. It's a big difference.

Right?

When do you know, I love this analogy, and it made me want to ask you about when do you know you're ready for a committed, intimate relationship? When do you know you're ready for it, as opposed to you just feel alone and you want to have someone in your life?

I guess when you're, when you're ready to build, when you're ready to build, when it's not, you're going there because the fantasy of it all is exciting to you. but when you're actually ready to build. And that doesn't mean that you're not looking, see the castle analogy is cool because when we were talking earlier about this idea of giving without expectation, well, you do expect something in a relationship, right? It's overly simplistic. We do expect things. We expect respect as loyalty defined on whatever terms loyalty means to us. love, appreciation, all of that to be seen. We have a lot of expectations in a relationship, so it's not a relationship where we just. We give without expectation. But that, to me, is where the building thing is really interesting to me, because you want to work hard as a builder in your relationship, but you want someone else who's building, too.

Right?

That's where the expectation comes in. I'm gonna. I'm gonna work hard to build this thing. and I'm gonna build it at a really high standard. I'm not gonna look at your work and go, well, if you missed out some of the grouting there, then I'm gonna, you know, like skip it on my end. No, this is my standard. I'm gonna build to a really high standard.

What if the person you've been with for a year isn't building to your standard?

That's a conversation. That's a real conversation. Like, here's what I need. Here's the kind of relationship I wanna have.

When do you start to just say, well, it's okay if they, do half the job that I do.

Is the job they're doing half one you really need them to do well, or is it one that can be done half? Sometimes I think there are certain things we let go in a relationship. That's where the compromise comes in. That's where the sacrifice comes in. There are certain things I'm okay with you not doing as well as I once thought I needed someone to do them. I thought this thing was really important.

It's not.

It's not that important. I love you. So what are we doing? I'm not worried. It's not that big of a deal. And we've all done that. We've all seen those things that once were important to us and we let them, we say, you know what? I was at an age where I thought that was really important and it's no longer as important or significant as I made it. And then there are things that never stop being important or they become more important. The ability to communicate well. I think as you get older, those things become more important. The ability for someone to have genuine empathy, the ability for someone in, let's say, an argument to not jump to saying a spiteful thing that's hard to then forget. Someone who doesn't try and do damage in an argument, but tries to build, tries to figure out, let's figure this out together. We may both be hurt, but let's come to this in a loving way. When you're younger, you say, that's just mean.

-Hateful.

-Because you're hurt.

-Yeah.

-Right? And then you realize, oh, God, three months later, they still remember that comment, even though they said they forgot it.

-And they hold on to it.

-They still have that in their head. I'm not doing that again. There are certain things I think as you get older, hopefully, if we mature, we start to see this is the important stuff.

-What do you think are the, I didn't prep you on this before, but what do you think are the three or five components to a foundation of a relationship that has the potential to really thrive long term, committed for decades? What are like, it needs to have these three or these five things. Otherwise, it's going to be really challenging to be to sustain this type of love and joy and happiness.

I mean, a couple of simple ones, I guess. are I need to show up for my partner in ways that they need me to, not just ways that are comfortable to me. We, in other words, pay attention to what your partner actually needs, because it's really easy to say, I'm gonna bring them lunch every day. That's. That's like, I I'm a really good cook, and I'm really, you know, I want to slave away every morning to bring them lunch every day, because, you know, that's me giving. Maybe they don't bring lunch every day. Maybe they don't care. Maybe what would mean the most to them is them getting home and you really being interested in their day.

Do you think love languages is an important part of this where it's like understanding someone's love language and giving them their top priorities?

I think that it's an interesting framework and it's been for a lot of people a very successful framework. I think any framework that just allows you to kind of create a little structure for things that gives you some simplicity around it can be valuable.

Sure.

And it doesn't mean it's the only framework you can apply, but it's a valuable model to work from.

So it's showing up in ways that they may not.

It shows up in ways, yeah, not what do I want to give, but what do they actually need?

I think that's a lot of conflict in relationships because, and I think you need to understand, do I want to do something that's uncomfortable every day that's not foreign to me, or that's foreign to me, or do I want to find a partner that enjoys the things that I like to give.

Well, that's an interesting question. I think the relationship is gonna be a bit of both. But sometimes it works even without, like, that's a kind of compatibility issue. I think it even works outside of that in day-to-day stuff. 'Cause you might say, the thing I wanna give to my partner is an awesome night together. But maybe what they need is an awesome night with their friends. And maybe the most loving thing you can do is say, Hey, I know you haven't seen this person in a while. You should go and see them. I know that relationship is important to you. You should go and hang out with your mum tonight. Recognizing not what's easy for me to give, but what might be less comfortable for me to give, but is actually what would mean the world to them. And I think if you really want to make yourself irreplaceable to someone, It's recognizing that. Because no one else is going to do that for them. I mean, you know what I mean? Like, it's, some may be, but it's really rare to find someone who is willing to do that for you.

Okay, so that's number one.

The second thing is to work on yourself.

Yep.

And to say, I'm responsible for me. My partner isn't responsible for me. I need to do the work to be the most loving, confident person I can be in this world.

What are those?

Fulfilled, has their own purpose, has things that drive them. That, to me, is very, very important.

What's the first thing people should do to do work on themselves? 'Cause you threw a few things out there, but what's like...

I mean, firstly, do you have... Maybe, here's an interesting question you can ask yourself. If I had 10 hours free right now, What would I do with them?

Interesting.

If you can't give a good answer to that question, you might already be describing one of the weaknesses of your relationship.

And binge watching a series is not the best use of your time.

It's, you know, if the answer is, oh my God, will I have my purpose, the thing I love getting stuck into, or it doesn't even have to be some grand purpose. Not everyone has found like their life's calling, but it could be, I really want to learn this language or I really want to see this friend or I really want to go and, you know, whatever it is, read this book or learn this thing.

Take care of my health.

Yeah, I can't wait to get to the gym. If you should be able to answer the question of my partner canceled on me today. What would I do with that day now? And if you can't that then you begin to describe the person who's sitting there waiting for their partner to text them, waiting for their partner to make them feel good enough.

And that's not attractive.

It's not, and it's not fair to our partners. It's a lot of pressure. It's a lot of pressure. And by the way, people put a lot of pressure on their partners by expecting their partner to put a band-aid on all sorts of things for them. You know, if they're feeling, like, there's a lot of rhetoric about vulnerability right now. Now, I think vulnerability is huge. I think the work that people like Brené Brown are doing and so on is huge. It's massively important. Vulnerability is absolutely an act of courage. and we should encourage it more, both sexes all the time. But his vulnerability is something's making me insecure, and I'm gonna share it with you 'cause you're my partner and I love you and I tell you things, right?

But you don't wanna do that every day, right?

Vulnerability, if an hour from now I tell you, oh, God, I'm feeling insecure again. And then an hour from now, you go, that thing's affecting me again. And tonight, Because now, in a way, what we're doing is instead of sharing, we're dumping. I'm asking you now to fix it for me, to put a band-aid on it for me.

Make me feel better, yeah.

Of course, it's part of our part, a loving partner will support you and will do everything in their power to make you feel loved and to make you feel safe and to make you feel secure. And it's absolutely true that sometimes what we're feeling is insecurity is because our partner isn't doing their job in those things. That's true.

They're not building.

They're not building. They're doing things that are proactively making us feel insecure. There's minor betrayals, minor neglects, all of that. But sometimes we have to say, okay, what part of this am I responsible for? And it's my partner's responsibility. It's our responsibility in life together. to share, to share the load, to work towards things together. But it's not your job to carry the load for me, to carry my problems, to put the Band-Aid on every day. I need to.

Maybe once in a blue moon.

Yeah, of course. Of course. And we're all going to do that. We're all going to have, like, we're going to have days, weeks, times where we're going through something really serious. And our partner's job is to show up.

Yeah.

You know, but a friend of mine who's kind of blunt said to me, some days, or weeks, you get to be needy and difficult and high maintenance and boring and, you know, insecure, and then you don't. And I thought, yeah, like we get to be those things for a time until we don't, until it gets too much for somebody else because we need to be At the very least, we need to show our partner we're committed to our own growth. So the first one, what did we have? Show up in ways they need, not just ways you want to show up. The second one's work on yourself. I guess the third one, to me, teamwork is everything. Being a genuine team is huge. Really looking at each other as teammates as opposed to you're there to meet my needs or I'm competing with you in some way.

Man, I've done that before.

Like we're an actual team. I saw, you know, one of the things I loved most about Chris Rock's recent stand-up, Tambourine.

I haven't seen it yet.

Such a genius name. The whole concept is about the idea that he couldn't, in his last marriage, play the tambourine. He couldn't play the backup instrument, right?

Right.

And I thought it was such a great, great metaphor. Because in a good relationship, in a really genuinely mutually supportive relationship, some days you play tambourine, some days you're their teammate. You can't, you know, the way he says it, her success is your success and vice versa. You're in this together. And some days that person's the lead. And you're on tambourine and a lot of people have never learned how to play tambourine. There's the other thing, I don't remember where it comes from, but every relationship has a flower and a gardener. Most people don't want to be in a relationship where they're always the gardener.

They want to be the flower.

Never the flower. Right?

Blooming all the time.

Yes, and sometimes you have to be the gardener. No matter how long you've played the flower. Right, right. You and I have played flowers a lot in our lives, right? We've been used to being a certain, having a leader role and having these kind of big lives and big worlds and whatever. And then you go to a relationship and the relationship doesn't give a. You know what I mean?

About you.

No.

Yeah. Okay, you wanted to be a flower.

You know that you're the flower out there in the world. Sometimes in our relationship, you have to be the gardener. Sometimes you've got to play tambourine, even if to everyone else, you are the constant flower.

Right?

Movie reference, constant gardener. Well, you can't be the constant flower, right? You might be in your business in.

Some way, but in a relationship it's different.

You can't, now you're coming as two equals. And so it's so much of it is checking your own ego and being like, I'm in this to be with you as a teammate, not this or this, this.

When do you know you've found your match for life or your potential match for life? You think this could be the match.

By the way, these are much harder questions than the first interview.

You know, is it when you see these three things after a period of time and you feel convinced that the bricks are being laid equally in a certain way?

Yeah.

When do you say, I'm ready to be committed all in?

I think there are four stages to a relationship.

Stage one.

Stage one is admiration. That's when you don't have a relationship with this person.

You admire like, attract to you.

I look at you and I'm like, this person is hot, they have something about them, I like their qualities, I like their energy.

They have a good potential.

Yeah.

Okay.

And by the way, that doesn't even mean they have good potential for you right now. It just means this is a person of high potential in some way.

You admire them, yeah.

The second stage is connection. And you could, I think in a sense, connection and chemistry are both relevant to this stage. 'Cause you have this person where there's a mutual like. I like things about you, you like things about me. I think you're attractive, you think I'm attractive. We share some common ideas, common grounds in life, our outlook, whatever.

Beliefs, yeah.

That could be found on a great date. Doesn't really mean much still. This is the plot of land.

Yeah, you can have great sex, there'd be chemistry, you can make out all night.

None of this means you're gonna have a great relationship.

Okay.

The third stage is commitment. That says, I want to do this with you. I am committed to building with you and you are committed to building with me.

Right?

That's a really great stage to be at. It's very important, right? It's. You can't have a relationship without that. Any relationship without that or where that's one-sided is unrequired love by definition.

Mm-.

And there are a ton of people out there right now who say, I'm just, you know, I created a program recently called Attraction to Commitment, which literally dealt with why people keep getting stuck in limbo.

Yeah.

Why they keep getting stuck in the casual phases and it never gets to a relationship. One of the things that fascinates me is how long we stay with something that's just casual that isn't a real relationship on the hope that it will change.

Mm-.

Unrequired love, you know, certainly unrequired commitment.

Yeah, it's a nice time when you're like 23, right?

That's stage three. Stage four is compatibility.

Mm, man.

And the hard thing I think for a lot of people is, I used to question this one myself, like.

If.

You know, the idea love conquers all, right?

It doesn't. It does not.

I wish. I like it. I like that phrase.

It's an amazing.

I love the phrase. I love the sentiment of it.

Maybe amazing bumper sticker, you know?

And there's nothing, you know, what is more powerful in the world than love.

And all you need is love.

Yeah, apparently not.

It's not true.

We need a little more.

It.

You can have love without commitment.

Right. And.

You can have commitment without compatibility.

Interesting.

And this is where things get. I used to think, well, maybe commitment is enough. And maybe issues with compatibility can be overcome as long as two people are truly committed to each other. I don't. I don't believe that anymore. I. I think that it goes beyond commitment to truly last. You have to have two people who are really compatible. Like, okay, let's say we got commitment. Two people want to be together.

They admire each other, they have chemistry.

Right.

They say, I'm committed to you.

But one person's sex drive is here, and the other one's is here.

Not compatible.

This is gonna be difficult.

One person likes to spend a lot of money, another person wants to save all the money. One person believes in a certain religion, another person doesn't believe in that.

One person, you know, wants to spend Five days a week together, the other person is happy with one night a week together.

One person wants their family to move in, the other person wants their space.

Right. These are serious, serious issues that often end relationships. And so to me, you wanna say, how do you know when you found your match?

All four.

Four stages.

All four.

I admire this person. We have connection and chemistry. we have genuine mutual commitment and we're compatible.

How do you know if you're fully compatible or somewhat compatible and is there a spectrum of what's possible?

Yeah, that, I mean, I wrestled with that for years myself is... We're compatible.

Here, but not here.

And can we overcome this incompatibility here? Is it... It goes back to, Is it one of my deal breakers? Is it really important to me? Or can I let up here? And does the other person understand the sacrifice I'm making in letting up there? And do they show appreciation for it? And do they, you know, do they see me for that compromise that I'm making?

Or do they just expect you should do it easily?

Yeah.

You just, well, you should have. That's the way I am, so that's the way you should be. Right. And to me again, part of growing up is realizing I wasn't always right. I was, you know, there were things that I used to, you know, I've looked at ways that I've been in relationships in my past where I did something and I just so thought I was in the right and so took for granted what someone else was doing for me. The way that they were being forgiving, understanding, and just completely took that for granted, you know? And I think, man, I mean, you know, you talk about, we were four years ago, we were together on this. What's the biggest difference in my life? Being humbled.

Oh, so.

God, in so many ways. In so many ways.

Thinking you had it figured out in one way, but realizing that there was a lot of growth still.

Thinking you wouldn't experience this kind of pain or worry or anxiety or fear, and then, oh, it turns out I can feel that too. And those people who used to use the, that I used to hear using the word anxiety, who I used to think, why is everyone fucking talking about anxiety? Now you feel along with everyone. Oh, shit.

Yeah.

The ways that you realize you're not, you're more vulnerable than you thought. The mistakes you thought you'd never make, you make.

You make, yeah.

You said where everyone else's mistakes.

Ah, man.

And then you make them. Things that were going well for you for a long time and then all of a sudden didn't go as well and you thought they were just always gonna go well. All sorts of things. And that to me is what, as you get older, Hopefully, hopefully. You, you know, Socrates said the mark of an educated man is someone who has some awareness of how little they know. And hopefully, every year I realize how little I know.

Yeah.

Unless more and more I realize how much I don't know. And that has just, it's made me better. It's made me better. It's made me more forgiving. It's made me more empathetic. It's made me less judgmental. made me a better coach, a better speaker, not to be so sure of myself about everything all the time, you know?

Yeah.

She doesn't always make for great Instagram quotes. I know. I know. If I know one thing, I know this.

Yeah.

Well, yeah, maybe I feel I know less now than I did five years ago. And maybe that's a good thing.

It is a good thing, I think. humility is a good thing. We all need it at times. I'm curious, for all the women who come to your retreats who are suffering, they deeply want this love, this connection, this compatibility, commitment. They want all these things that we're talking about. And they feel like they've been struggling for years. They've done the dating apps. They've gone on hundreds of dates. For all the people at your retreats or the women who are watching or listening at home that just want to find their match, their partner, what's the first step they can take to start getting out of the weeds of like failure after failure and start seeing some progress to greater potential matches or a couple of things.

I mean, firstly, there's a guy called John K. Who wrote a book called obliquity. And the whole idea of the book was obliquity is when you reach goals through indirect means. So if you take building a business, you're far more like, if your goal is to make money, instead of focusing on making money, focus on all the things that provide value to people. Because the making money part will be the byproduct. If you focus on, I need to get rich, I need to get rich, I need to get rich, you're probably not going to do the things that are going to get you rich. Because what makes you financially wealthy, the relationships you take time to build, that often for a long time, you don't ask for anything, you don't even care to, you're just building, you know, the products that you create for no reason, then you just think that they're great or that you think they have value or whatever the service that you provide people, it's just, it's not, what's the quickest way for me to make money? Most people like that don't get rich.

Right.

In a relationship, there's all these things that build a relationship. that really have nothing to, that don't feel like they have anything to do with a relationship. Like who would say knowing what you would do with the next 10 hours of your life, if it was free, is actually gonna be a huge determinant of the health of your relationship. It's like one's over here and one's over here. Shouldn't we be talking about how to have better sex? Shouldn't we be talking about how to communicate well with my partner? No, we're talking about you being an independently attractive purpose driven, independent person who is attractive just to watch from afar because of the life you lead. That's going to lead to a much better relationship. By the way, even that will lead to better sex.

Yeah.

Because your partner looks at you and.

Is like, they're more attracted.

This is a person. This isn't just an extension of me.

Yeah.

This is a person. So it's the indirect things. that contribute. And so let's now take that to the single place. I'm single. What do I do next? Understand and study, and this is a big part of what I do in my work, so I'd encourage people to come check that out. Study the things that contribute to getting you a relationship that often have nothing to do with getting a relationship. the things you do with your spare time. If I want to learn yoga, do I do it on my own at home with a YouTube video? Learning yoga, by the way, on its own could be a good thing just because it makes you more interesting, you have more to talk about, you feel confident in yourself, all of that. But okay, now let me do a more sociable version of that. Let me go into a class where I might actually have the chance of meeting other people. Maybe they're not men, maybe they're other single women, but other single women are useful too. Another indirect variable. because you have more single friends or more fun friends, more charismatic friends, friends who come knocking at your door going, Hey, we're going out. Get out of your goddamn pajamas. We're going out. That person is going to be great for your love life.

Makes you more desirable, have more value.

And makes you leave the house. Instead of staying in every weekend, makes you leave and go to places where people are. The books you read, who would say the books you read have anything to do with your relationship, but they do on a date when you have to talk about.

Absolutely.

Right? So there's all these factors. Now, the reason I'm saying that, because of course there are direct factors, but look, my programs in my, my company, which, by the way, people can go to howtgetttheguide.com to go and find all of these. But the programs I have there are about very direct things, like how to flirt, strategies, how to meet someone, how to do this, how to do that. But that's one piece of it.

Right?

It's I encourage people to do all those indirect things. And then someone can't say, I'm just sick of going out. I'm. I'm. Give. I give up on what? On what?

Yeah.

Like, someone said that to me in a seminar. I say, I just feel like giving up. Tell me.

On yourself. On life.

What are you giving up? I want to hear this. Tell me. What are you giving up on? Well, I don't. Meeting people? Meeting people? Would you not meet people? If someone said you can never find the love of your life, that's off the table. Would you really stop meeting people? Your need for a human interaction would disappear? I don't think so. You'd stop flirting with people? That's part of your character. Being flirtatious is a part of who we are at times. So why would we lose that? Being sexual? Would you really lose that? You're gonna stop being sexual just because the end result isn't coming? I don't buy it. You stop doing hobbies. You'd stop getting out there. All the things that you have to get rid of to say, I'm done with relationships, are things that would absolutely erode your life, even if you take the relationship out of the equation. Yeah. So I think people have to. I understand. I know there is a terrific level of, like, dating burnout right. And if you're out there feeling that right now, I urge you to think about this differently and to say, I don't have to constantly have it in my mind that I'm trying to meet someone. I'm trying to meet someone. I'm trying to meet someone. That game gets boring. And now when you go on a date and it doesn't go anywhere, you're a failure.

And you're exhausted.

Yeah.

I'm done. See it as life. This isn't dating. It's life. It's meeting people. It's experiencing a great conversation, having a fun moment of interaction, of flirtation, doing things you want to do anyway, doing hobbies you want to do anyway, because they'll enrich your experience of life. All of those things are really important. You don't have to call it dating. Just go live.

It's kind of like the analogy you said about running a business. If you're focused on, I need the relationship, whereas like, I need to make a certain amount of money is getting the relationship as opposed to as opposed to why don't I add value to the world and I'll attract the customers that will pay me and I'll make some money.

Because I need to make money focuses on things that make the short-term economics work. And those things are generally not good for a business.

That's it.

All right. Same in love.

I wanna ask you a couple of final questions. This just came to me. I don't think I've ever asked anyone this, but since you're the love guy, I'm gonna go there. Typically, I would ask the three truths question, which is what are your three truths if it was the last day of your life? But I'm gonna ask you a different spin on this. Imagine it's the last day of your life and you've been in a committed, compatible, loving relationship with the woman of your dreams for the last 30, 40, 50, whatever years. and you've been a part of this journey and experience where you've built this incredible castle with all of its dents and wears and tears and love and magic and unicorns and everything. And it's your last day, and you've got to, the lights are gonna go off, and you're not gonna be on this world anymore. And your partner has a few more years to live. She's gonna live a little longer than you. And you get to write three things, a love letter to your partner, about the three things you loved about her the most that brought you the most joy, the most incredible life from this relationship that you built together. What would you say or write to her are the three things you love the most? about this woman that she would remember and go on for a few more years afterwards.

But that would be specific to a relationship, right? To a specific person?

To that relationship, yeah. To that person and the relationship. Imagine the relationship is everything you could ever dream of. You created the relationship of your dreams. It's the golden standard for the world to look at a relationship and say, wow, they lived it. They did it, they loved, they went through it, they were vulnerable, it wasn't perfect, but man, this couple is the golden standard.

Man, okay.

What would you say are the three things? So I want you to go there, because I believe you're gonna create that in the relationship that you wanna create. So what were the three things you would write a love letter to your wife on your last day about the three things you appreciated the most about the love you created together? that.

You made me feel safe enough to be the best I could possibly be.

You.

Your love made me feel so secure, gave me such a platform to go and make an impact in the world on that.

That.

And I. Don't get me wrong. I think we should have our internal security, but. I felt so secure in the relationship that this gave me, this relationship gave me the energy to go out there and do amazing things with that energy. So I made a bigger impact in the world because of the energy that your love gave me.

I'm getting chills already. This makes me emotional just thinking about it.

You don't have anywhere to go from there.

So safety, security.

That you. You made me feel like I wasn't alone in the world. And I don't just mean because we had each other. You can feel very lonely in a relationship, especially if you don't feel seen. But you find someone who sees you. who really gets you. And all of a sudden you don't feel so alone in the world because life is lonely. You can have tons of people around you, but there's a certain existential loneliness that many people feel in life that for moments or times evaporates when you feel a true connection with someone and you see each other. You go, wow, that to me is transcendent. So your ability to see me made me feel less alone in the world. And I guess you were a role model for me.

Wow.

That through observing you and seeing the way you live and seeing the way you approach things, that there were so many times where I noticed you were better than me. And that taught me how to be better. It taught me how to, I grew because I saw the way you were.

Wow.

And that showed me, no matter where I thought I was, being around you showed me how wonderful people can be. And that made me want to be more wonderful. I guess those would be three beautiful love letters.

What's the letter you would write to yourself? You're a 200 years old. It's the last day still. And you write a letter to your 32-year-old self. 32 now?

32. 32 in a couple of weeks.

You write a letter to your 32-year-old self and say, one piece of advice looking back at what you'd say to yourself on how to become the best partner to create that magical relationship.

One thing I would say looking back at myself, saying, Here's a piece of.

Advice to being, Here's what you need to do to become that partner with that other person. Here's what you need to let go of. Here's what you need to step into. Here's where your ego needs to take a check.

I think, how many things do I get?

Give yourself a few.

Let's do a couple. I always loved just the idea of you question everything, you know, don't that thing that you take for granted that you're right about, you know, question everything. 'Cause it's, I mean, it's just amazing to me the things I look back on now and I no longer agree with what the 23 year old version of me thought, the 25 year old version of me thought. And I think understanding that, at least We're not very good at thinking about all the ways we might be wrong today. But we're really good at knowing the ways we were wrong before, right? And it's more, that's, you know, if you think of a lot of self-improvement people, right? Gurus, leaders, whatever, you know, people want to call themselves, they struggle, they're very good at telling stories of how they f*cked up. Ah, five years ago or 10 years ago.

But now you're saying- you- should have seen me then.

But not many people are good at talking about today. And I think that that's a kind of blind spot we, most of us have in life, people in general. And I think if we can apply that thing of, oh yeah, God, I was so wrong about that five years ago. I was so, I couldn't be more wrong about that. And I know that now. We should apply that to the next five years too. Yeah. You know, in the next 10 years and say, there's a lot I'm gonna look back on five years from now and say, God, I did not know what I was talking about. that doesn't mean we should not trust ourselves on anything. You know, there's. I've heard it said, you know, strong opinions Loosely held. You know, it doesn't mean we shouldn't be passionate about what we think now, but it does mean we should leave room for questioning. And to that end, I think I would tell myself to. To be kinder to myself over the course of my life for things that I'd. mistakes I've made within relationships. I have definitely, I have definitely been the person and even today have to wrestle with doing something that I know, oh, that wasn't the best reaction to that. I wish I'd have handled that differently. I wish I'd have said a different thing. I wish I'd have phrased that differently. I wish I didn't say that. And then really, really beating myself up for it.

Yeah.

You know, not letting it go. Even after you've finished the argument, even after you get to the other side.

Holding on to it, yeah.

Continuing to berate yourself for it. And the shame about that is that it lacks humanity. It makes us forget that we're human and that we don't get everything right. And the only way we're gonna get more right is by making certain mistakes and learning from them.

It's true.

And it also stops us from being effective because that energy that we're putting into berating ourselves is actually stopping us from doing the very things that would move everything forward from that mistake. It doesn't make relationships better. Mistakes actually make relationships better very often.

Because you learn or hopefully you'll learn.

You learn. Those things, they really can transform, mistakes can transform relationships, but not if you sit there consistently dwelling on them. They make relationships better if you can improve from them and move on and be the thing you want to be now. So I think I would tell myself to be kinder to myself for mistakes, to not obsess, over things I should have said or done differently. You know what? To that end, we should. Halfway through this interview, I was kept losing my train of thought, and probably you were going to edit that out to be kind to me because, like.

Don'T beat yourself up over it.

Give people the real.

Yeah.

Matthew has. He's really eloquent. Oh, look at the way he could string a thought together. Well, I lost. I. I lost my trainer for three or four times. I don't know what happened. I don't know what happened. I couldn't think of the thing I was gonna say next. I kept blanking. Okay, show people that. That's inspiring. Oh, Matthew, Aussie can be in the middle of an interview and just go completely blank and not know what the was saying. Then what am I worried about? That's more interesting. And that's, you know, that's a real relationship.

Yeah.

Real relationship. That's the real stuff. That's the stuff we're not seeing when we see other people's relationships and everything. Things are great and everything. No, let's like, if we want to change our world, forget the world for a moment, 'cause it always seems a bit grandiose when we talk about changing the world, but changing our world. Let's bring in the real, because that genuinely changes things. what makes relationships better? True realness, vulnerability, people living their truth, people being more real, being more upfront, more direct. You know what makes you more attractive on a date? Being more real. Not going there. You people worry about their hair and is this all right? Tell a real story on the date. That's what's gonna, you want to talk about deep attraction, not surface level, Surface level books in 2D on Instagram. Deep attraction, the kind of attraction that gets relationships, comes from real stories, real shared experiences. And if you do want to change other people's worlds, as you know, because you're so good at it, it's bring people the real. Because that's more inspiring than the guy who sits there and does great for an hour and always knows exactly what he's going to say.

Perfect person, yes. It's not as interesting. I love this, man. Those are good insights for you. Hopefully that's helpful for your life, reflecting on that.

Yeah, you've, I mean that was, yeah, you asked a hell of a question. You're great though, man. You're great at what you do and I have to, I know that you say a lot about, you know, I hear you talk a lot about gratitude and you ask people questions constantly about that. I have to share my gratitude for you. while we're here to honor you to your audience because you have, you know, I've been through difficult things and I've given you the phone call at difficult times in my life where, you know, I'm like, Louis, I need someone to talk to, man. And you've given me the time, sat down with me and been a voice for me that is sober and out of my own head and been truly kind in kind and wise, which is a good combination when someone's not just being kind to you, but they also are saying things that are very, very astute and helpful. And you've been that for me in some really difficult moments. And I remember in those moments thinking, God, I'm so going home and thinking how grateful I am for that friendship. And hoping that more people get that for themselves because it's a tremendous thing. when you have it. So thank you for that.

I appreciate it. It's been a beautiful four years.

It really has.

I'm excited for 40 more, man.

I see that's paint on the wall.

I mean, we gotta keep building. We gotta keep building.

And I'll say to anyone out there right now who's watching, because I want to, I'd love to give you a way to kind of continue the journey with me if I'm resonating with you. There is a wonderful video. I do my retreats twice a year, as you know. They're a six day program. And I urge anyone to apply for that if you can create six days to transform your life.

It's a game changer.

Please, please, please apply. That's at MatthewHusseyRetreat.com, but I also created an at-home version of this for people who aren't able to come to the live event. And you can obviously go and do that program and I would encourage you to do it. But what I've done is taken a training piece from that And I'm giving it away as a gift. And that's, I literally bring a woman on stage, this beautiful, gorgeous soul, Alexandria, I bring her on stage and we really transform her perspective and her confidence in a kind of very relatively short space of time and people can see what's possible for themselves in their confidence by watching this video and by watching the process that I take her through. So get that. That's at getmattsecret.com, Matt with two T's. Get Matt's secret.com, you know, just go there, put in your email address. You can download, you can be watching it immediately, five minutes from now. But it's very, very powerful. And for anyone who's like, oh, no, you know, I wanted more of this. They can, you can go and get more there.

Yeah. And subscribe to you on YouTube because I watch your videos and I'm not a girl. You know, they're for women, but I'm like, I learned so much as a man being in a relationship when I was single, I would watch them when I was just learning so much. So it doesn't matter who you are. I look forward to every Sunday to getting your email for the videos. So make sure you guys subscribe there, Matthew Hussey on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, and getmattsecret.com Final question for you before I ask it. I gotta acknowledge you, man, for constantly being a powerful voice in the world for so many women who are suffering. You mostly work with women and there's a lot of women, I think, who are just suffering because they don't know how to get out of their own way. And you help them gain the confidence by focusing on their life and taking responsibility for life and giving them strategies and tools to really attract love, committed, compatible love. And I think at the end of the day, we all want that connection and that intimacy and that love. And you're providing a safe environment for women to cultivate that within themselves and truly love themselves first. so they can attract a partner that they want and eat what they want. So I acknowledge you, man. It's amazing. You've been committed for a decade plus now and you haven't slowed down.

Thank you. And I want to say to, I really appreciate you saying that. I don't want to say to anyone out there, I'm, I mean, I'm on the journey with you. Like, I'm not, I'm not coming from here. I'm right there with you doing the work for myself.

Yeah.

I'm my own experiment all the time.

You're not perfect.

Life's hard.

It is, man.

Life's hard and I'm working on it.

It's good.

I encourage other people to come and work on it with me.

There you go. My final question is, what's your definition of a great relationship?

I think it's gotta be one where one plus one equals three.

There you go.

I hope today's episode inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a rundown of today's show with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me as well as ad-free listening experience, make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel on Apple Podcasts. If you enjoyed this, please share it with a friend over on social media or text a friend. Leave us a review over on Apple Podcasts and let me know what you learned over on our social media channels at Lewis Howes. I really love hearing the feedback from you, and it helps us continue to make the show better. And if you want more inspiration from our world-class guests and content to learn how to improve the quality of your life, then make sure to sign up for the greatness newsletter and get it delivered right to your inbox over at greatness.com newsletter. And if no one has told you today, I want to remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something Great.