Start With Yourself: The Mindset That Built an Empire | Emma Grede

When you're building something great, the people around you matter from day one. And I know how easy it is to get pulled away from the work that actually moves the mission forward. That is where Justworks comes in. It's an HR platform built for small businesses that care about growth and their people. Payroll, benefits, compliance, hiring, all handled in one place so you can stay focused on what matters most. Go to justworks.com to learn more. They do your human resources right. So you can do right by your people. Justworks. For your people. You know how people sometimes invest in something that seems incredible at first, but then it doesn't live up to the hype? Like when everyone was convinced NFTs were the future and people were buying them for thousands of dollars, and now they barely have any value. Marketers know that feeling. They optimize for numbers that look great, like impressions, but then they don't see revenue. LinkedIn has a word for that: bull spend. Instead, you can get the highest ROAS of major ad networks with LinkedIn Ads. Cut the bull spend. Advertise on LinkedIn. Spend $250 and get a $250 credit. Go to linkedin.com/lewis. Terms apply. Hiring isn't just filling seats. With Indeed Sponsored Jobs, they'll help you match with candidates who can actually move your business forward. Target candidates by skills, certifications, or location. Join the 3.3 million employers worldwide that use Indeed to connect with quality talent that fits their needs. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Less stress, less time, more results now with Indeed Sponsored Jobs. And listeners of this show will get a $75 Sponsored Job credit to help you get your job the premium status it deserves at indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring, do it the right way with Indeed.

I think that we've got ourselves into a really dangerous position when we feel like the only businesses that are valid are billion-dollar unicorn-sized and shaped ones. There's a lot of different ways to do businesses. And so I would think, are the limitations real or are you putting them on yourself before you get out of the gate?

Emma Greed in the house, one of America's richest self-made women, having built multiple billion-dollar brands. And she's now the author of Start with yourself. She's here to challenge everything you think about ambition, success, and the life you're capable of building.

You have to get out of your own way. You got to make sure that your biggest enemy isn't between your own two ears, right? You have to say to yourself, okay, wait a minute, I have these giant aspirations. You've got to get off your desktop, out of your head, and do something.

If you go back to the younger version of you with all the lessons you know now, what would you say to her?

I'm going to be really honest with you and say something that's maybe deeply unpopular because of where we are in this country right now.

Very excited about this. One of the things I'm curious about is how you were able to become so successful with your mindset first without having everything growing up in the perfect environment, because I know you didn't have the perfect environment, the perfect schooling, all the opportunities given to you. So how did you develop a mindset that allowed you to have a thriving life thriving marriage, thriving family, thriving health, thriving community, and everything else you've created?

I love that you start there. It's like the best thing, the best first question ever, because I feel like where I come from and the way that I started is so foundational to my success. And I often hear people talk about, you know, scarcity or childhood trauma or like the stuff that happened to them in a negative way. And I think for me it was fundamental to the person that I am now. First of all, like, I come from East London. I'm the eldest of 4 girls raised with a single mum. And so my life was really like from the beginning, it was about doing, right? There was a role to play. It's like my mum's the dad, I'm the mum. We've got 3 kids together and my job was to like get them out the house, make the packed lunches, iron the shirts, get them to school, by which point I would turn around, go home and watch Oprah. So I missed a lot of school. But it's interesting because I felt so capable. You know, by like 10 or 11, I could cook dinner for 5 people. And I never thought about it as like, God, this is like such a drain. I was like, look how much stuff I can do. Like, look how capable I am. And I really felt superior to people around me, to the kids around me. Yeah, I really did. I was like, look at these lot, they're like playing in the street. Meanwhile, I've just cooked dinner for 5 kids and all my shirts are ironed for tomorrow. Like, I really believed that. And I think I was lucky 'cause I had a mum that really, You know, when you come from a place that's like, you know, devoid of hope, like my mom kind of gave me a lot of hope in myself. She didn't kind of like gaslight me, but she was very much of this idea, you know, she was like, "Emma, you are not better than anyone, but no one's better than you." And I've really believed that. I was like, "Oh, okay." So as I kind of went through my life and I, you know, it's like I left where I was from in Plaistow, by the time I started getting jobs and in England, you know, there's such a hierarchical class system. I never imagined that any of these kids that went to Eton or Harrow were any better than me. I never imagined that because— No, I didn't think because they had an education and I didn't that they were better. I was like, you've got one thing, I've got some other thing. I have my stuff, it's going to be all right.

How did you believe that though when most people don't see that?

Because I think I really knew better. I proved my capability. I had proved that I could have an idea of what was going to happen. And I really in my head had lifted myself out of where I was from. Like, I was always kind of looking over there imagining what could be in my future. And also, I was a very— like, my mom, again, I said she didn't gaslight me because she was like, you can have anything you want so long as you're willing to work for it. So I was like, I'm just gonna be the hardest worker, I'm gonna do the most. And so it's like, I had a paper route, I worked in a deli, I worked in the local shop, I sold fireworks. Like, I did anything to get a buck, you know? Like, I mean anything. I used to sell like Ralph Lauren and YSL shirts to the teachers at recess. I was, you know, I was a hustler in every any sense of the word. And so to me, that, like, you know, those dollars, that just meant freedom. That meant like, God, there's like something that I can do. I can take this, I can turn it into this. But I never ever thought that I was disadvantaged. Like, that just wasn't in my head.

So it was just your mom at home?

Yeah, just my mom went to work every day. So she, she worked in, in a bank. She would literally get up super early and she'd be out the house by like 7, 7:30. So I was really left to my own devices because she was not coming back, you know. She was going to like bingo go after work. She was doing what she was doing. I was left with these kids of mine, my sisters, and, uh, you know, it was up to me what I was going to do. And I, I just knew, like, you could make the day great or you could make the day terrible. And I was like, I've got to make the day great because these kids, they're vibing off of me.

Sorry if I don't know this, but was your father never around, or—

No. So my mom and dad split when I was like 5 years old. So my mom had 3 kids under 5 when she was 28. So when you think about that, like she was such a young woman. Yeah, it's tough. And it was tough for her. It was really tough for her. So that's why there was never like a, oh my goodness, do I have to help my mom? It was like do or die.

Yeah.

Like, of course you have to help your mom. Like you've got to think, you need to get through the day. Everybody's gotta do what they do. So my dad wasn't around. He came back in my life in my kind of late teens. And he's like, he's a great guy. You know, in my head I was like, it didn't work out between them. That had nothing to do with me. And so it's like I've done so much so much therapy and so much work on myself and, you know, looked everywhere for the daddy issues. But again, I never thought that was about me. I was like, those two didn't work.

Interesting. So you didn't feel like he left you or anything? They just—

let me tell you, in no uncertain terms, he did. But it's just that I never thought that was a verdict on me. No, I mean, listen, I could probably have done with the presence of him, but, you know, I had an incredible granddad, I had amazing uncles. And, you know, in my book I talk about those people that in my life, like, came came and rescued me, that came and they were my figures. And, um, I never missed out on like a male influence. And by the way, I mean, my mom is like 5 men, so it was, it was totally fine for me.

I'm curious, I don't know if you've shared this, but what is the greatest lesson you learned from your— the absence of your father during that period of time?

No one has ever asked me that question. Um, What did I learn? You know, I learned, you know, I think I learned about myself. I learned that I was capable and that I didn't really need anyone. You know, I learned that. I think what was interesting is I was surrounded by all of these women. My nan, my mum's one of four too, so she has sisters. You know, I had aunties. I had like a lot of women around me that seemingly were just doing everything and getting on with everything and moaning about it a lot. A lot of, a lot of kind of, you know, no one was quiet in my family, but I learned that women were really unbelievably capable and there was no sense to me that you would miss out on something by the lack or the void of a man being around.

You mentioned beforehand that you've been married for 17 years. You got 4 amazing kids as well. Thriving business, thriving marriage, thriving kids. What did your parents' separation teach you about how to have a thriving marriage?

Well, you know, I think that what I learned from my mom is that, that you don't make compromises on the type of person and life that you want to live. And as I've gone into my marriage, I think I was very clear about that.

How did that look?

So I, you know, it's like I've had, you know, quite a lot of boyfriends. I went, I went around before I found the one that I decided to settle down with. And I think I was always really clear about what type man I would want to be with. You know, I'm a very ambitious woman, and it would never have worked for me to be with anyone who is anything other than that, and anyone who accepted anything less.

Or wanted you to be something different.

Yeah, like, that was never going to happen. And so I think that in everything I do, I have really high standards. But I have high standards for myself, I have high standards for everyone around me. And so when it came to, like, looking for a husband, my standards were high. I was like, I'm cute, I know what I'm doing. Like, I'm a good packager. I'm like, I can, I can make it work. I don't need anyone for anything. And so I think when I was looking and thinking about, you know, boyfriends ever in my life, and certainly whoever I was going to settle down with, I, I kept those standards really high. I was not going to settle. Like, I was never going to settle. And the funny thing is, you know, I met my husband when I was, what, 24? And so relatively early by today's standards. But I knew immediately, I knew that that was the man I was gonna marry.

Wow. Really?

Yeah. Straight up. Like I, I knew.

First day, like first moment.

Like the first moment. Because what, what will come, what I should tell you is that my husband turned out to be my first ever investor. So when I met my husband, I actually started working for him and his business partner. And after about 6 months, I spun out into my own company and they were my first investors. Pre-relationship, pre-marriage.

But you knew when you, but I knew when he was your boss.

When I met him, I knew when I met him on the day that he wrote something down on a piece of paper, which was my deal that I would be going into this company. And it's like, here's your equity share, here's your profit share, this is what your base salary would be. I still have that piece of paper.

Come on.

No, I swear to God.

You have it framed?

No, I don't have it framed, but I have it in a little book in my office. You should frame it. I know, wouldn't it be so good? Just a little reminder. It was a very low offer, by the way, which I negotiated. But yeah, I really loved him. I did.

Yeah.

Enough to keep the piece of paper.

So you met him, he made this offer, but then it wasn't until later when you started dating, right?

Yeah, it was like about a year and a bit later. Really? Yeah.

But you knew in your mind for a year, this is my guy.

Yeah, I had a, you know, again, these things are always complicated. They're never straightforward. He had a girlfriend. I have a boyfriend. I'm not that girl.

Something inside of you intuitively, you're like, that's my guy.

It's just a matter of time. Wow. Yeah.

Yeah, that's interesting. That's interesting. So you knew that the relationship you were in wasn't meant for you long term at that point.

Yeah. And that's a really hard thing to say because it is hard.

I know that. I've done that too.

Yeah. I'm a relationship person. I think oftentimes, certainly with me, like I'm a person who cooks the thing before they move to the thing, right? I'm like, I'm a risk taker in business, but in my personal life, like I ain't messing around with that. I'm gonna make sure I'm good there. Yeah, sure, sure, sure. Before I take away from from here.

Clean space.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But intuitively you were like, oh, this is not the guy I'm supposed to be with. I'm supposed to be with someone else.

Yeah.

Like intuitively, like you knew. I knew.

Yeah, I knew.

Gosh, isn't that interesting? Most women say that they know on the day of their wedding whether they're supposed to be with that person or not, or if it's going to work out or not. It's like, yeah, looking back, I knew on the aisle that something wasn't supposed to work out.

I would never— see, I'm the— I would be the runaway bride. Like, first of all, I just never even get there because any doubt that I have, like, I'm so attuned to listening to myself that Now it's like if I got a weird feeling, I'd be like, do you know what? I can't do this interview and I'm so sorry to waste your time, but I'm out. I don't go against—

Lock the doors. Don't let her leave. Lock the door.

I don't go against how I feel ever.

When was the last time you went against your intuition where it didn't work out for you? And was there something such a big enticing carrot that was like, wow, this is a big money-making opportunity, but this person, something's a little bit off. but I'm gonna let that slide and then we'll, let's move forward with the deal. And then did something blow up in your face?

When I was kind of late 20s, somebody very prolific came to purchase my company and I wanted to sell. I was a seller.

You were ready.

And I knew that it wasn't right. And I was proven right 10, 15 years later.

Did you end up selling it?

My intuition, I sold the business, but not to this person.

Oh, okay.

And I was absolutely right. Not to sell it to that person. And the only reason I say it is 'cause there were other people involved. Yeah. 'Cause usually I'd be like, sure, sure, sure. There were other people around that situation. But for me, I was looking so much to get out of that business and to have a new chapter in my life. And I was like, this ain't it.

But when was the last time you went against that intuition?

I don't know that I do. Okay. And I tell you why, because that comes from a place of real privilege, right? Like, I don't need the money. I don't need to make sacrifices. I'm, you know, usually the, the boss or the leader in the situation. So I don't need to sacrifice my integrity or my decision-making to go somewhere. I mean, listen, there are things that I say no to all the time, but also I'm wired not to be a people pleaser. It just isn't in me.

I can sense that about you.

Even as a kid before I had choice, it just isn't my makeup. It's just I'm not wired that way.

Until maybe 4 years ago, I was wired to be a people pleaser.

You were?

Until about 4 years ago when I actually learned about boundaries. And confrontation and just saying no to people and being like, no, I'm not going to do this.

It's also part of where I come from.

Yeah, you have that energy.

You don't say things to make people happy. And also you're judged. It's not even just the toughness. It's like you would be judged for actually not doing what you meant and not saying what you mean. So in that way, it's like I am just hardwired to tell you the truth.

I wish I would've met you like like 15 years ago and like not had to suffer for so long, you know what I mean? It's like I was wanting so much to kind of keep the peace and not speak up that I would just like betray myself over and over to like please other people until about 4 or 5 years ago. And my wife was actually the one who was like— that I just watched her just confront people and just be like, no, I'm not doing it, and no, and no, in a kind way, not like a mean way, but I was Wow, that's really inspiring.

You know, it's so funny because I remember I interviewed Melody Hobson, who is like my business hero.

You talk about in your book, your mentor, your business mentor.

I'm like obsessed with Melody and she says something beautiful. You know, it's like, you can be honest, you don't need to be brutally honest.

Yeah, yeah. You don't need to be mean.

And I love that. You don't have to be mean about it, but you can be really straightforward. And I think that one of my like superpowers in life is that no one's ever left guessing around me. No one's like, I wonder what Emma's thinking. You know what I'm thinking. You can tell that right away. It's just immediately. Yeah. I told you, my face has said it. I'm gonna have a conversation with you in the moment. I ain't waiting. And that is also just about like, I don't want to carry stuff around. I don't want to suffer. Like, I am a person who's really, really straightforward. What you see is what you get, and you're going to get it straight away, like it or not.

I think you've mentioned twice by now in this conversation that you grew up not needing someone, specifically like a man. I think you mentioned maybe somewhere around that, like, I was strong enough or independent enough, I didn't need someone. To make it in some way. I can't remember exactly how you said it. Where would you be if you weren't in a beautiful marriage, though? You know, not that you need your husband, but in some ways we need other people to experience beautiful moments of life and to experience more love and abundance. So I guess I'm asking, not questioning you, but asking like, where is that line of not needing someone but also needing other people to create those moments in your life?

So I love that question because I'm somebody that really thrives in community. Like, it's like I have my people, like my ride or die. And make no mistake, like, I need my husband. Like, my husband is somebody that I think is my best friend, and he's the person that I find the most interesting on the planet. And I still really fancy him, thank God. Um, and and I really need him. I think that I don't, when I say I don't need anyone, my expectation on people is never that they will be everything to me. Like I haven't set Jens up to be like all the things that I need because I need different things from different people. And it's like I have like a bunch of girlfriends and I have the people that I work with and I have my sisters and I have my family and I have my husband. And my life is like a tapestry of all of these different things that I've created around me. And I need all of them. I need everything. I need all of it. And I love that because I am somebody that like, like I'm a real life person, you know, I want to be in person with you. I would like give the phone up tomorrow. You know, I am an in-person person. I want to hug you.

Let's talk about this.

I want to be in the office. I want to chat with you for 3 hours. It's like I have zero time for like nightclub chat, you know, frivolous conversations. I want to go straight in, all in. Tell me everything. Tell me about your wife, the kids, the thing, the thing. Do you know what I mean? That's what I care about. So I am a person who needs those relationships. And that's what makes it so difficult when you move away from home, because you move and you lose, you know, the kind of price of opportunity is familiarity. Do you know what I mean? You lose everything that you feel so good and that makes you tick and that makes you, you to some extent. And so I feel like those sacrifices and those trade-offs, while they've been important and amazing for my success. I have given something in order to get that back.

What have you given?

Well, you've given up, like, you know, the, you know, familiarity is an interesting thing because when you're somebody like me, I don't want to, like, I don't want to do new people all the time. Like, I would rather, you know, it's like I'm invited to a lot of things, I don't want to go. I want to, like, you know, I don't want to go. I want to be with somebody that I care about who cares about me and talk about that thing that happened, you know. It's like that's that's just who I am. And so I think when you leave where you're from, a little piece of you kind of falls away because I don't have that same connectivity with all of the people that I love. I had to give something up to get something else.

Interesting.

And so there's a real cost to that.

I feel like mentally and in the world, you've been achieving greatness since you were a young kid, from having multiple jobs running your siblings' lives and managing all these things and also having a positive mindset along the way to transitioning into the business world and being extremely successful. And in your book, you have a quote on page 70 that says, "The ascent to greatness is rarely pretty and you'll learn the most from failure." Since we're on the School of Greatness, what is the thing you failed the most that has taught you about greatness?

First of all, I love the name of this podcast. It's so good. I stole the mug there 'cause I was like, I'm gonna drink from the School of Greatness every damn day. I was like, let's go.

Take it.

You know, the reason I try to include all of the mistakes and all of the failings is because they have been in hindsight, right? It's so hard when you're in it. But of course they've been the places where I've grown and everybody knows that. And I have kind of retrained my mind at this point to look for the fear, to look for the moments where I might not come out on the other side in the best way, because I know that that's where all the growth is.

Really?

Yeah. Like, and it's a really difficult thing to do because specifically for women, I think that we are sort of engineered in a way where our emotions can take so much about decision-making. And what I talk about in the book is how I, or one of the reasons I think I've been able to build this life is because I've been able to manage my emotions. Not that I've got rid of fear or guilt or sadness or anger or any of the things that I feel, but I've trained myself to understand what is useful and what is gonna get me somewhere. And so when I think about all the failures, I don't look at them as like an assault on me and my character. I'm like, that was just a moment where I had something to learn and life had something to show me. And I had to go through that terrible time to get on the other side. I couldn't have this without that. And so now I find myself going, what scares me? Like, what am I really scared of doing now? Because I am 100% sure that's where the next, like, moment of greatness is coming from.

When you're building something great, the people around you matter from day one. And I know how easy it is to get pulled away from the work that actually moves the mission forward. That is where Justworks comes in. In. It's an HR platform built for small businesses that care about growth and their people. Payroll, benefits, compliance, hiring, all handled in one place so you can stay focused on what matters most. Go to justworks.com to learn more. They do your human resources right so you can do right by your people. Justworks, for your people. There's nothing that frustrates me more than when things don't move with speed. And when it comes to building a strong daily routine for your life, the tools that you rely on at home should make things run more smoothly without interruptions. And that's the thinking behind T-Mobile's 5G home internet. And big news, T-Mobile now has the fastest 5G home internet according to the experts at Ookla Speedtest. Setup is so quick and simple, no technician needed, and you're online in 15 minutes or less. And the price comes with a 5-year price guarantee, so you don't have to worry about unexpected price hikes down the road. And when I'm working from home, my internet does a lot of heavy lifting. It's prepping for the next show on the School of Greatness, uploading files. I'm doing Zoom calls. I'm doing meetings. All these different things are all happening and I need them to happen fast. And with T-Mobile 5G Home Internet, things move fast and stay smooth. Pages load quickly, files upload successfully, and I can stay focused without constant interruptions. It makes a big difference. Visit t-mobile.com/homeinternet to check availability today. Price guarantee exclusions like taxes and fees apply. Fastest based on Ookla Speedtest Intelligence data, second half of 2023. 2025. All rights reserved. Running a small business is tough, and when it comes time to get a loan, it can feel almost impossible to find someone you actually trust. Big banks say no, and online it's a mix of offers that feel unclear with rates and terms that are hard to navigate. That kind of uncertainty can slow your momentum. Whether you need help covering payroll, managing cash flow, or investing in growth, you deserve better options. If you're in the small business marketplace, you need Fundera, powered by NerdWallet. It's a free, easy-to-use platform where you can compare real financing offers from trusted lenders all in one place. No perfect credit needed, no spam, just options that fit your business. And here's the best part. For a limited time, when you visit nerdwallet.com/greatness and fill out the no obligation form, you'll get VIP treatment and talk with a real person who knows all the ins and outs of small business lending. Don't risk your business on unreliable lenders. Go to nerdwallet.com/greatness to find the funding you deserve. Fundera Inc., NMLS ID number 1240038. I mean, you talk about this, you know, managing your emotions on page 17. You say to reap the benefits of your gut-based intuitions, which we were talking about, and to use your emotions in a healthy way, you need to learn how to modulate and manage them. So what is the first step then to managing your emotions in an uncertain world?

Yeah. Isn't that difficult? Because it is so uncertain. And I find that, you know, for me, like my my default emotion was always anger. Really? Yeah. Where I come from, it was like the first thing. I wouldn't get sad. I didn't feel like, you know, like I felt angry.

About what?

Everything. You know, also because that was what was around me. You know, I come from a really blamey culture where it was like, you know, I can't get a doctor's appointment, they're not picking up our trash, these people taking our jobs, the weather is miserable. And, and it was this blamey culture where everyone was angry about everything all the time. And there were moments in my life where I've really blown up and been so mortally embarrassed, like, like to the point where I felt like the pits of the earth. I've been like, how can I ever recover from this blowup? Like from something you said or did or emotionally did and said, or the way I behaved, how I've acted. Like, yeah. And I mean, I went, I put myself in anger management counseling just for Oh yeah. When I was 19, absolutely. I was like, this is not going to serve me.

You put yourself in it.

Oh yeah.

Something bad must have happened to put yourself in it.

Oh, I talk about in the book, it's my most embarrassing moment ever. I think I can be, as a kid, I didn't understand that there was another way. There was nobody that ever explained to me that you could take a deep breath, that you could go inside yourself, that you can have an emotion and that there can be some detachment from who you are. I thought that was who I am, who I was.

The emotion was you.

I thought it was me. I thought that I am that person.

Not I'm experiencing this emotion.

No, no such thing. I really believed that's who I was and I only had that. That was my default mode. And so when I, you know, it's like when you know better, you do better. But I had to go out and find that because it wasn't present it to me in that way.

Wow. That's fascinating. It's kind of like when my— I kind of had my turning point when I was around 30 years old because I had a lot of anger inside of me as well. And I think it's— I felt like I was being taken advantage of most of my childhood. And all of a sudden the anger just came out kind of in every area of my life. And my friend was like, I don't want to hang out with you anymore. I got in a physical fight on a basketball court, actually in the mean streets of West Hollywood, and in a pickup basketball game that had nothing on the line.

Physical fight in your 30s? That's just—

I was either 29, maybe I was 29, so almost 30. But I got in a fistfight with someone, and I remember walking back into like my apartment and looking in the mirror and just like looking myself in the eyes in the mirror, shaking and being like, I don't recognize who I am. Like, what— who am I? What am I doing? Like, I'm a grown man getting in a fistfight over nothing. Nothing. And it could have like really done something bad, you know. Thankfully the guy was okay afterwards, but just never know where that emotion could lead if you don't learn to like address it. Yeah, right. And so that's pretty insightful that you did that at 19.

No, and I, I've learned that over the years, you know, because I think anger is one that for me I was able to get a grip on and understand, but it's still there.

Yeah, right, you still, you still have to like take a breath there, and you don't have to go that far to find it.

But there are all these very unhelpful emotions. And I think the older I've got, the more I've understood, you know, what would I do if I wasn't really scared? What would I do if I didn't feel guilt? And so, so much of what I'm talking about in this book is like figuring out like a vision for yourself and an idea of who you are. And I think that as a kid, I had a strong feeling that where I was from wasn't who I I am. I was like, I am not supposed to be here. This is not the rest of my life. I belong somewhere else. There is better stuff for me. And I was like, what can I do? What is within my reach to get me out? And that for me was work, any type of work. I was like, get on a train and go into town and find a way that you can physically get away from this place. And in the beginning it was just that, the distance. I was like, if I get on a train and go for an hour, I'm far enough away that I can be somebody else. Wow. And I really, I remember thought of that. Like, you know, I just could— you know, in, in London we have the Tube map, and I was like, if I go from this zone all the way into this zone, I'm so far away that I can be who I'm supposed to be.

Did you not feel like you could be who you were supposed to be at home?

No, it was too difficult, really. There were so many responsibilities, and I was, you know, I was already set up to be mom to, you know, my sisters and I had to be really tough. And when I understood that that toughness was causing me to be unnecessarily angry, I was very clear about the correlations. I was like, I have to get out of here. I have to be out of this place where I'm in constant reactive mode and I have to choose my choice. And that's when I started to think, oh my goodness, that's not the woman I wanna be. Like for me it was Oprah, right? I used to watch Oprah on the TV And you have to go back, if you go back 25 years ago, she introduced all of this stuff to the culture that we take for granted now. But it's like no one was talking about mindfulness, meditation, gratitude. She introduced that stuff certainly to me. And so I was like, oh, I want to be that type of woman. I was like, I didn't know anyone like that. I didn't know a woman who spoke like that. And of course she was a Black woman. And so for me, I was like, I'm going to be like Oprah. I'm going I'm gonna be that woman. I'm gonna say intelligent things, and I'm gonna have a lot of money, and I'm gonna be like graceful, and I'm still gonna be strong, but I'm gonna do it in this like really beautiful feminine—

and this— yeah.

And I was like, that's it, that's the blueprint. Like, she's, she's got it, you know? And in my head I was like, she's also making a ton of money. Like, because you used to see in the newspapers that Oprah's done this and she's done that. So to me I was like, okay, I'm gonna model that behavior. I'm gonna like read everything that she says, and I'm gonna speak how she speaks, and I'm gonna do this gratitude thing. And I was writing down— well, you know, I had nothing to be grateful for really, but I was like, I'm gonna find the things. And so I found a way to vision a life for myself. And still now I think about that because I think there's so much in our culture and in society for you to measure yourself against. And I am always very careful that I'm measuring myself up against the things that I want, the vision that I have for myself, the type of mom I want to be, the type of leader I want to be, the things that are important to me, my principles, my values. And then I can have fear and guilt and disappointment, but not against somebody else's idea of what I should be.

Interesting. This is fascinating because when I was 13, I begged my parents to send me away to a private boarding school.

You did?

I begged them. They did not want me to leave.

No, who wants their 13-year-old to leave?

But I grew up in such a environment, you know, that was just— didn't feel emotionally safe for me, you know. And so I was— I ran away essentially, right? And I wanted to get out and I couldn't get out fast enough. And I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to get away from your environment or wanting to run away. For me, I needed to run away for certain reasons, for my emotional safety. But eventually I couldn't run away from myself later. Like, I stepped— like, I was still running away internally, spiritually, emotionally, psychologically. Psychologically, right? Chasing and running away to try to fulfill something. It doesn't mean it's right or wrong, good or bad, but it's just what I did to survive until I had to come back home to me. What was the thing you were running away from the most, and when did you feel like you came back home to you, to emotional safety within yourself?

I think that what I was always running from was a future that looked like all the stuff that was around me. I was scared shitless that I would end up like all the women I could see, crying over some guy that left them, devastated that someone had cheated on them, left broke and alone. You know, I could see that despair all around me, and I was like, that can never be me. That can just I thought, that could never be me. And also I saw a lot of women, not my own mother, but they were at the mercy of the partners that they had, right? So when he was up, they were up. New car, new curtains, lovely stuff, you know, all great. But then when that went away, it was, it was gone, you know. You had a drunk husband and, you know, no money, and the car goes, and the woman's just like, what happened? And I I was like, no way. Like, no way could that ever be me. And I saw it in my own family, and I saw it in the people around me. And so that was like a fear of mine. And so for me, working and having this idea of my life was like, that was gonna be my escape. That was like, that's my plan, that's my get-out plan. And then I get to decide, and I'll create the, the buffer, and I will be in a position where it doesn't matter who is around me, I'll be good. And to the point where that still shows up in my life today. My husband laughs all the time. I have my own lawyers. We have a family office and we have our companies and we have business managers. And I still have my own separate lawyers that will look at my stuff because I'm like, I get it. I love you. We're together. We're going to do everything. And he's like, but you know that you are just paying through the nose. Our lawyers are your lawyers. And I'm like, yeah, but you know what? I don't know. I don't want to be one of those girls. You never know. You never know. So it's in there still, still in there, deep down. It's there and it ain't going anywhere.

Still worried.

Still worried.

So you still got to start with yourself. You're still doing the work.

I'm still working.

Did you guys do a prenup before?

Actually, we did a postnup. We discussed it and then, you know, with wedding arrangements, we never got around to it. But the nup is there. Oh yeah, it was fully, fully fleshed out and negotiated. And it's actually a really funny story. We were in a restaurant restaurant, and it turned out that a very famous agent and her husband were sitting close to us, but we couldn't see, and watched our whole negotiation. And every time I ever see this couple, they're like, "Oh, remember your prenuptial arrangement dinner? We heard the whole thing." And they were cracking up and went home and like, "Why don't we have a prenuptial agreement?" But were you making a lot of money then?

No.

So that is a great point. No, at that point we were very uneven. So my husband had started his business journey in his kind of late 20s, early 30s, and he was doing way better than I was. But you know, I'm always gonna bet on myself. I was like, it's a matter of time. TikTok, I was like, just wait. So no, I went in and negotiated like I was already who I am today.

Wow.

Yeah.

That's interesting. Yeah, what a psycho.

Now I think about it, I'm like, what was I being so hard-ass about? I had absolutely nothing. In the future, when I have I had a company that I owned a piece in and I was a salaried person at that time. So I was really betting on my future.

So you didn't have a big net worth or anything at the moment?

No, at that time, absolutely not.

Maybe a year's worth of savings or a few years maybe or something like that.

I had very little and was spending, I was, I've never ever spent beyond my means 'cause I'm seriously frugal and I know the price of everything. And when I say frugal, it's like I love nice things. Like don't get me wrong. 'cause my people will be out there going, "Now what is she talking about?" We just went to Chanel, she's a liar. But I am very mindful of money and it's still, I still understand how much every single thing costs and the value of everything. I think that's what makes me good at my job. You know, it's like if I am expecting a customer to spend $150 on a pair of jeans, they're gonna be worth every one of those $150 because I have a, I have an understanding of what it takes to make $150. So it's like I'm fully, I'm fully still in relation to what things cost.

If you go back to the younger version of you with all the lessons you know now and all the work you've done, and we're all work in progress for, for the rest of our lives, what would you say to her? The girl who's there taking care of their siblings and the father's not there anymore, and you're kind of helping your mom, you're parenting your mom and parenting yourself.

I would say to her what I which back in those days I used to be like, it's all gonna work out. Like, I really knew, and perhaps I'd made an unfair correlation in the work piece of it, but I was like, if you are just a good girl and you work really hard, it's all going to work out for you. Like, and I really believed that.

Wow.

And I still believe that.

Do you believe that you would have been able to accomplish the results you have staying in your home environment?

No way.

Really?

No. And I say that in two ways, right? Because for me, home environment is one, sort of East London, and two, England. You know, I'm gonna be really honest with you and say something that's maybe deeply unpopular because of where we are in this country right now. And we all know the underbelly of it, right? I'm not gonna sit here and say that we aren't in a really tumultuous time and there isn't an underbelly to where we are, and that America has a lot a lot of— yes, around it. Having said that, you know, I look at myself and I think I am the living, breathing embodiment of the American dream. There is nowhere on Earth that in 8 or 9 years you can come to and have the kind of success and trajectory that I've had. And so as difficult as things are right now, you have to look at me and go, wow, this country is kind of amazing because of the people and the communities and the way that you're allowed to come into a system and be successful within that system. So what worries me about where we are right now is that you would take away the single best thing that this country is all about. Like, that you would erase the very thing that makes you America. Like, to me, it's unfathomable because I look at it and I'm like, damn, this place is good. Don't get rid of that. Do you know what I mean? It would be like me without without hair, or I don't know, like not good, you know, like not a, not a vibe. Like you, you need that in this place because that's what makes it so amazing. Like that, that fabric of the place coupled with those people that are here and the way all of that works together, like that's the magic of America.

Where were you in your business or financial aspect of things before coming to USA?

I was doing pretty good. So I had bought I had created and sold 2 companies before I came here. So I started my first company in my kind of mid-20s, and that was a 12-year build before I eventually sold it. I sold it to IPG Media. And in the middle of that, I got involved in this kind of blog platform thing. Like, they were bloggers, not influencers then, before we even had that language, where I aggregated the ad sales and sold, you know, like the ad sales of a group of fashion bloggers, and I also sold that company. So I had done pretty well, not well like I am now, but I had made tens of millions of dollars. And I was like, to me, I was richy rich rich. I was like, I didn't feel done, but I was very much like, I've done the thing. It's like I've started something, I've built it, I've sold it. I made a lot of mistakes. I had offices in London, in New York, in LA. I closed in LA. It's like I did all of the things. And that made it actually even harder because I was living— I had a house in London, I had a beautiful house in the country, the dream of England.

Get away on the weekends.

Yeah, take my two beautiful kids to my country house. I thought I was like Kate Middleton, I was like queen of the castle. And so, it was even harder to risk it all and leave all of that to come into uncertainty. And honestly, to come to LA, which was never a place that I thought fancied, you know. I was like, English people, I was, I'm a Londoner, you go to New York, you know. I thought this was like for, for the entertainment industry. I was like, who lives there? It's sunny all the time, it's so weird, the people are weird, you know. I didn't, I, that's what, that was my appreciation.

My first year I moved here, I did not like LA.

You did?

My first year here, because I came from Ohio, but then I lived in New York City for a while, and I loved the vibe of New York City, the energy, the grittiness, the realness, the rawness, and I was like, everyone here is fake. You know, that's my first interpretation.

Totally.

But then after a year, I was like, gosh, everyone's in blizzards all over the world. And I'm like, look at us. It's pretty nice.

With our legs out, just sunning ourselves. No, and I understand that because to me, you know, LA was like in yesterday. You know, I was like, the time zone doesn't work. I can't call my people. What are you going to wear if it's sunny every day?

So far behind. Everyone's already got their work done.

The next day they're going to be ahead of me. So it was a sacrifice, um, and because I was doing pretty well, it was even harder for me to fathom, like, why— like, everybody around me was like, but you've made it, like, you have all the things, like, you want more? Like, what is wrong with you? But to me, there was something much bigger, and, and almost like kind of bigger than myself. I, you know, I'd had these two kids. Lola was 3 months old, Gray was about 2 and a half, and my husband at at that point was like, you know what, Emma? He's like, you have in this company, in Good American, he's like, you have a tiger by the tail. You can do with it what you will, but I think that you need to be and put yourself like right in the middle where it happens. And I was like—

You launched it in the UK?

I launched it while I was in the UK and it really took off. Like nobody had the visibility that it would take off like that. And so I, you know, with Jens's encouragement, I was like, okay, let's go to LA. We'll go there for 3 years and then we'll come back to civilization.

Civilization.

8 years later and I'm not going anywhere.

What's been the biggest mindset shift you've had since moving from the UK to the USA, and what is unlocked for you with that mindset?

Well, I would say everything has changed because the possibility for me here seemed endless.

Really?

Yeah, because when you get— when you come from a place that is, you know, London is a big international city. But, you know, make no mistake, it's still a small place, right? It's still in some ways such a locked community. And I came here, no one knows my accent. Everybody thinks I speak like the Queen. I do not, by the way. I am not.

Your team is like, ah, she doesn't talk like that.

She ain't talking like the Queen. But there is no judgment here. There is like, here is a person, like, how good are your ideas? How hard are you willing to work? And so for me, that was very freeing because you come to a place and you're like, like there's no baggage. I am whoever I want to be here.

Yeah, and people care about results more than anything. They're not like trying to put you in a box, I guess. If you can create something, like, the market will decide.

Yeah, and that, and that for me, that level of opportunity and that shift into thinking, you know what, I am as good as my idea, and there will be somebody who wants to think about this, to fund it, to get behind me. And so I guess To answer your question, any limitations that I thought were attached to what I was doing completely disappeared. And I think that I started to think in a much bigger way. And America and Americans helped with that. Naturally, right? There's a speed and there is an appetite and there's a willingness. And also people want to willing to take a bet. They're willing to be like, yeah, go on then, go for it, kiddo. Like, go for it.

Yeah. For someone watching or listening that might have come from a similar environment where they didn't have the opportunities, they didn't have the educational side of things, they didn't have the resources, what's a limiting thought around money that is holding them back from what they can create financially?

Well, the first thing is to think that you need a lot of money to do anything. I think that we've got ourselves into a really dangerous position when we feel like the only businesses and the only ideas that are valid are billion-dollar unicorn-sized and shaped ones, right? I have a lot of friends and a lot of people around me that do incredible businesses— incredible because they afford them a lifestyle, they can hire people from their community, they're little and lovely with 4 employees or with 40 employees. There's a lot of ways to do businesses and to have a business. And so I would think about, are the limitations real or are you putting them on yourself before you get out of the gate? And that's something that requires an enormous amount of self-reflection and honesty. So you have to get out of your own way. And what happens is that people really live in their heads. You got to make sure that your biggest enemy isn't between your own two ears, right? You have to say to yourself, okay, wait a minute, maybe this thing— I have these giant aspirations, but you got to get out of the You've got to get off your desktop, out of your head, and do something. And it also, you've got to understand that life comes in seasons. There are moments like you don't need everything to happen to you right away. You don't need it to be the biggest thing. You might do something, it goes completely pear-shaped. There's another opportunity and another one and another one. So I want people to understand that actually you just got to do the thing, have a go, get out of your own way. And within that, you can test and change and figure things out and learn. Like that's the beauty of business. Everything transitions, right? People imagine that you're going to start a company and that's what it is. The truth is Good American looks nothing like it did in the beginning, right? Your principles, your reason for being, the problem that you solved, your purpose, all of that stays the same. Everything else transitions on the way up. So you have to know that you're going to start start with this thing and that it's going to change and shift and you are going to change and shift, but you gotta start. That's it.

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. You ever notice how money stress doesn't just stay about money? It follows you around. It shows up when you're trying to focus, when you're with your family, even when you're lying in bed at night. And it's not just numbers, it's emotional weight that can build up over time. BetterHelp connects people with licensed therapists who can help you manage that kind of stress because financial stress impacts more than a budget. At the start of this year, 88% of Americans said they were feeling it in some way, and you feel that it can affect your sleep, your mood, even your relationships. BetterHelp works with over 30,000 licensed therapists. You fill out a short questionnaire and get matched based on your needs so you can focus on moving forward instead of trying to figure out where to start. And if it's not a right fit, you can switch at any time. When life feels overwhelming, therapy can help. Sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com/greatness. That's better, H-E-L-P, libertymutualp.com/greatness. And Doug.

There's nowhere I wouldn't go to help someone customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual, even if it means sitting front row at a comedy show. Hey everyone, check out this guy and his bird. What is this, your first date?

Oh no, we help people customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual together.

We're married. Me to a human, him to a bird. Yeah, the bird looks out of your league, anyways.

Only pay for what you need at libertymutual.com.

Liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty.

What is the thing in your life that you feel like needs a shift?

There could be a different balance. You know what, what happens is that, um, and when I say balance, I mean I have been an owner and an operator for— what am I? I'm 43 years old. It's like 20 years, right? That's how long.

43.

Wait, what a lovely age, and glorious, by the way. Um, you know, I've been saying to everyone throughout my whole, um, press run around this book that I'm 42, and I did an interview at home the other day.

My husband was like, when's your birthday?

September 23rd. I'm gonna be 44. I'm not even 43 for that much longer. He was like, just so you know. I was like, oh my God, people are going to think I'm lying about about my age. I'm 43. I'm 43. I'm 43. Um, but your question— I, um, the balance. Yeah. So, so I think that as your kids get older, they require— and this is the crazy thing, because you imagine that they need you when they're babies, right? You have these two little precious 5-month-old kids, and, you know, there's so much that pours into them. But actually, as they get older, they understand things in a different way. And so I'm trying to make sure that I get that right, that I get like, that I can be around for the things that are important to my kids. Not all the things that happen, because that's not possible, but that I can be where I need to be for them and fulfilling my own needs. And so it's really just making sure that as my life changes, that I'm part of the, the design changes. Do you know what I mean? That I am being purposeful and thinking like, what is the shape of that?

You can't keep doing what you did, you know, while you were launching and building this business at the next season with your with your kids is what I'm hearing you say.

200% for the longest time. And, you know, I'm really lucky because a lot of what I do, it isn't in the startup phase now. But that is a choice, right? You can choose to stay with that mentality, or you can choose to hire a CEO or a president and shift and change your role. And I think, again, there are seasons. There are moments where I've been 200%, always in, tunnel focused. And there are moments where I've said, you know what, I've just had a baby. I'm going to take a minute. I'm going to outsource some of this stuff. And there's other moments where I have to lean in, but I want that to be my choice. I don't want that to be dictated to me. And so I try to make sure that I'm really mindful and understanding of that.

I mean, I can only imagine the complexities of being a driven business leader while having kids. I can only imagine the potential, maybe judgment, but also praise that you might have had over the last decade of like, wow, you had 4 kids and you launched all these billion-dollar brands. Like, and people either praising you or maybe judging you for what they don't know. How did you deal with that judgment of people saying, well, was she really, you know, if she's 200% here in her business, is she really there in her family? Like, how did you navigate that internally? Internally?

I think that I've learned as I got older that I— it's, you know, like, it's just me against me at the end of the day. Like, I really tune it out, and I am one of those people that don't really let— like, you know, it's like everybody's gonna have their point of view, and, you know, you've got other parents at the school and people that you work with. And that's why, like, I'm very clear about what type of mother I intend to be? Like, what is really important to me? Like, I like the kind of, like, I like to wake my kids up in the morning and I really like to put them to bed. I don't take them to school every day. I don't make their lunches. I don't, I'm not at the school gates to collect them. I don't get to every event. If it's a thing that's really important to them, if they're racing, if they're in a play, if they're like, then I am there. But it's I'm like, that's okay by me because I have my things and I'm only measuring myself against that. Everything else can just kind of drown out. And I do try to talk a lot about this idea of trade-offs because people imagine, yeah, you're trading off stuff you don't want to do. No, the trade-offs are always things that you really want to do. You have to choose your life, sacrifice, right? It's, it's a— and it's a huge sacrifice. And so again, that's why I like to think about my life in these seasons, because I think there's a time and place for me to be all in. There's a time and a place where it's like, I'm going to be in lockdown, I'm not going to speak and see my friends as much as I want to. That's the reality, right? Something's got to give, and it's usually not going to be my kids. So there's other places of sacrifice, um, but I think so long as you choose them and you're not impacted by other people's opinions—

I mean, maybe this was your British upbringing of having kind of thicker skin, but how did you learn to focus on criticism in business, success or failure, personal life, whatever it might be.

It's not useful. It's not useful. It doesn't serve me. When I say I'm not a people pleaser, it's like I'm missing the gene. I don't care if you liked it. Do you know what I mean? In a way, I really am so— I mean, the book is called Start with Yourself. Do you know what I mean? The first interview I did about the book was this wonderful woman. She said, Emma, I can't believe I opened the family chapter and it starts with with you. I'm like, that is so me. Like, I didn't even think about that, but that's how I think. Like, I am right at the top of my list because if I'm not good, then no one around me is good. And I know that feels difficult to hear from a mother of four, but it's really the truth. And I believe that. Like, I believe that I can live up to exactly the type of woman that I want to be, and I can be a good mom. I believe that I can, you know, do deeply meaningful and impactful work and make a load of money doing it. I don't think it needs to be either or. That's right. I write a whole chapter. It's both and. You make those decisions for yourself. Don't be thinking about what everybody else has got to say because it will never please you. And here's the thing, nobody's watching you. You know this. Nobody's thinking about you as much as you are thinking about you. So you've got to sit back and go, it's totally fine. I'm good with me. And as long as you are good with you and you can lay your head down on the pillow at night and be like, you know what? I feel really good about the decisions that I made. I feel really pleased with the type of person I am. Like what else matters? I'm not watching for other people's opinions.

I mean, if you could bottle up that gene or lack of gene and sell it, that's your next business idea.

That is the idea. We need an Emma peptide.

Most people are so worried about the opinions of others. They're so worried about the one negative comment or one negative review rather than the hundreds of positive ones or thousands that it cripples them and it focuses on that one thing where it sounds like you don't have that.

I just don't think it's useful.

Yeah.

And I try to focus on the things that are moving me forward. You know, I always get these questions of how do you do all of these things? How do you have the businesses? How do you have kids? Are you a good wife? And I'm just like, how do I do that? Like, I have a set of I have goals and I say no to everything that isn't getting me closer to those goals. That's it. I have a set of things I want to do with my kids and I say no to everything else. Like, it isn't that difficult. We made it difficult. We also have kind of like got into this space and place right now where parenting has gone completely mad. Parenting didn't get harder. The expectations of parenting got harder. You know, back in like when I was a kid, if we had fresh milk and an apple in the house, my mum was like, job done. No, like, they'll survive. Now we have to watch every ingredient, we have to monitor every friendship, we have to understand how our kids are thinking and feeling and playing, and have we got the right developmental toys for the stage that they're at? Like, it's— do you know what?

It's so much crap as a kid, and I turned out okay.

It's not that deep. Do I think that your kids should sit and be, you know, like, raised by the iPad? No, I don't. But at the end of the day, when we've turned parenting into another part of our ambition, that's failure to me, right? My kids need a mom who loves them. They need someone they can rely on. They need somebody that can give them like a big lovely cuddle, and they need like attention and presence from me for about 15 minutes a day. There are 4 of them, then it's over.

Then they're moving on, they're bored, they're thinking about something else, they're on to the next one.

And that has to be okay because the spin that we've got ourselves in and this idea that we're constantly failing. That's about as useful as the people pleasing stuff.

It is.

Don't do it. Don't do it to yourself.

I love that you said your friend opened up the book to the parenting part. It started with you. The book is called Start with Yourself. And also you end the book with your starting with yourself, which I loved. I love when you reference to Snoop Dogg because I love that video when he—

Oh, and if they hate me.

It's the greatest. I feel like in some ways someone could look at that and look at it as an egotistical approach, but I was like, man, giving yourself permission to acknowledge all the hard work that you do, or you do, or someone does to create that. Yes, you can thank the people that supported you, but you're the one who had to live with you all day long and show up and do all those reps. 100%.

And here's what I know, that I have— I'm such a team player, right? I really do look at myself as like I'm the coach. It ain't my job to get in the middle of the game and go and score the goal, but it's like I'm I want to be the best I can be for all of my people. And leadership is what I happen to be very good at. It's like that's— I am really good at building a strategy and bringing everybody along on the ride and saying, here's the vision, here's how we're going to do it, and everybody come with me. Here are the parts that you guys should play. I have to be a great team player, but I don't imagine for one second because I don't know everybody's little piece of the pie that I shouldn't be the one charge, not for a second. Yeah, I'm like, I'm the leader, I'm the one who's doing this thing. And so it's just, I have a great appreciation for everybody else and the role they play. And Doug, there's nowhere I wouldn't go to help someone customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual, even if it means sitting front row at a comedy show. Hey everyone, check out this guy and his bird. What is this, your first date?

Oh no, we help people customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual together.

We're married. Me to a human, him to a bird. Yeah, the bird looks out of your league anyways.

Only pay for what you need at libertymutual.com.

Liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty. Substance use disorder and addiction is so isolating. And so as a Black woman in recovery, hope must be loud. It grows louder when you ask for help and you're vulnerable. It is the thread that lets you know that no matter what happens, you will be okay. When we learn the power of hope, recovery is possible. Find out how at startwithhope.com. Brought to you by the National Council for Mental Well-Being, Shatterproof, and the Ad Council. I just also have that for myself.

Yeah, that's great. Now I'm curious, Emma, do you feel like you were destined to wealthy?

I mean, it would have been a hard life to live in the way that I wanted to if I wasn't. Let's be fair, I think I didn't enjoy being poor. I remember a time when all I wanted was to, um, order something from the menu and not look at the price, you know, like that feeling. I just wanted to be able to like—

100%.

I'll have the burger and the foie gras and a glass of champagne, please, and not worry. And that took a really long time. I think that I was destined to, I was destined to be successful and I have always been focused on making money. Yes. I always put money in the center of my plans. I never imagined it would find me because I didn't know anybody that that happened to. And I never was shy about asking for what I am worth because I have audacity and I have a work ethic that matches it. And so I wasn't expecting anyone to come to me and be like, here you go, dear. But by the same token, I was like, if I work like this, you better be ready to pay me. Do you know what I mean? And I'm going to take it. So that was the conundrum. I really thought about money in that way. I was like, effort in, product out, correlation. I'm going to find the money.

If you don't make money at the center of your work, what will happen to you?

Well, it avoids you, right? And, and, and again, this happens, you know, I, I have a husband who's in business and he sits on the phone to his guys and they chat and they tell each other like what, you know, they're investing in and what money they're putting in the market and what crypto thing to do and how they paid this lawyer and this like deal that they did to structure the house before they had the money. And I'm literally sitting there going, I don't have one of those schools with any of my girlfriends. Why not? Because still there's some stigma attached to the way that we think about money. And somehow it's like, ew, like she's gross. She said money like 20 times. I write in the book that I did a panel and this wonderful, incredible woman said to me, Emma darling, you really speak about money too much. And I was like, but the name of the panel is Women, Power and Money. What are you talking about? You know? And so I don't think that we should avoid subjects objects when that's exactly what we want. Yeah, right. I think that we have to put ourselves in line to get what we're owed, and I don't expect that anybody is coming to save me, that anybody's going to pluck me from obscurity and go, here's the thing that you want. It never happened to me like that. So if you don't ask, you don't get.

100%. Wow. Do you feel like— I was asking you beforehand off camera, I said, um, do you feel like your last name supported your destiny for having Greed as your last name? Do you feel like words have intentions that set us up for a future destiny, like you were eventually going to earn more?

It's a really funny question because when I met my husband and my mom said, "How do you pronounce his surname?" Because I took his name. And I told her and she said, "Of course, 'Of course you were destined for that name.' And I thought she kind of said it in a derogatory way, and I was like, 'I just thought it really suited me.' Like, it was so— I was like, 'I'm gonna get a t-shirt,' you know, like the Mr. Men, Mrs. Greedy. Like, I felt totally at ease and comfortable with it. Um, you know, I still feel like that feels like his name, and I've taken that name, and that is our family name. I'd have been successful if you'd have called me Emma Poor, do you know what I mean? Like, I— it was always going to work for me. That's how I feel.

Really?

Yeah.

But do you feel like anything shifted with taking that on and like embodying that word? Or either way, you—

because I've been embodying, you know, I was a poor kid in, you know, Plasto, which, you know, so far I went back there 2 weeks ago, and if you see these photos, it is so gray and so grim and so—

especially the winter too.

It's so bad. And, you know, even there I was like, this is not where I'm supposed to be, this is not for me. I felt not special, I felt like this is just not my end, this is not where I'm supposed to be. And to the contrary, when I got a job and went into, you know, into the center of London and worked on South Molton Street, I felt like I had arrived. I I was like, "Oh, these people are more interesting and this place is much more beautiful." And I would go into, you know, in England we're full of galleries and I would go into galleries and I would go to museums and I thought, "This feels much more like what I wanted." Your environment. Yeah. And again, never ever feeling like I was better than anyone, but better than my situation for sure. And just a willingness to do whatever it would take. I feel like I've spent my whole life with my hand up. I always, whenever I speak to people and they say, Emma, how can I get ahead in my job? I'm like, just have your hand up. I'll do that. I'll do that. I did everything. I've worked such miserable, unsatisfactory jobs for ages because I was just like, I'll do it. What do you need? I'll go. Please may I? All the time because I was sure that if I could just be excellent and show people that I was excellent, that somebody would find me, that somebody would recognise that there was a skill. And guess what? It totally works. Because when I'm looking at people in my business right now, I'm like, look at that person being excellent, the way she packs up the boxes and puts every bit of tissue so nice and writes notes like beautifully. I'm like, that's an excellent person. That's somebody who takes pride in what they do. Like, people notice when you do that. They really They do, and they notice it in every way. And so I really believe that if you apply yourself and if you work really hard and if you don't try to make it a secret, great stuff is gonna happen.

If you try to make what not a secret?

That you are up for it, that you want more, that you are ready to work hard. But again, it's like—

And I'm willing to do what it takes.

I want you to be with your hand up. I don't wanna have to come and find you out of 500 people. And that's why I talk so much about proximity and visibility. I need you there right in the office where I can see you, where you can see me, where you can see how I move, where you understand the flow of the business and what we're doing here. I don't want you on a Zoom call. I'm uninterested, like entirely. And again, people are like, oh, but Emma, you're a woman and a mom, so surely you understand flexibility. Of course I do. Of course I understand that. But surely you understand that if you're really ambitious and you want a great career, visibility and proximity is essential. Essential. It's not a nice to have, it's just essential.

Yes.

Let's not set people up for failure. It's like, just be honest about what is needed. You want to pay rise? I need to see you in the office.

I like the attitude.

There's no other way.

I love the attitude. I got a few final questions for you. I'm open to this.

I love your questions.

Thank you very much. What is one question you wish more people asked you? The reality of what it takes, because I feel like you know, what does it really take?

Oh, it takes like, you got to be resilient. I know that that gets chucked around in podcast land so much, but what does it mean to be resilient? Like taking a lot of knockbacks, taking a lot of information that rightly or wrongly is going to be leveled at you. And it comes from all places, you know, it comes on a board level and an invest from your customers, from your colleagues. You have to absorb a lot of stuff and you have to go forward anyway. You have to do it anyway. And it's every day that I have resistance from all places, everywhere. Nobody calls me and says, guess what's happening today? We're selling out. It's going amazing. Nobody, nobody ever. I only have problems. My day is a series of problems morning, tonight, and you have to get with that. And so I wish people could understand, like, the reality of my life and how complex it is and how nuanced it is and how many hoops I have to jump through and how heavy it can be sometimes. Because when you have that responsibility, like, that's your responsibility, that's yours to deal with. I can't outsource my work. I can't go, could you not do it? It doesn't work like that. The buck stops with me. And so I, I often And I try to be really honest about this. I try not to sugarcoat it. And so much in the book, I had a level of honesty throughout about all the mistakes and all the things that I could have done differently and a level of, let's just get real with this because it isn't how we're presenting it to be right now.

How do you navigate the heaviness and the weight of all the responsibility that you have?

I guess I kind of juxtapose it with all the stuff that I've got as a result of it, you know. And I don't just mean like the, the, you know, a house or a car. I'm like, wow, what choice I have, you know. I get up really early in the morning, but that's a choice. I really love what I do, you know. I really love the work. I really enjoy like working with products and solving problems, and I love being around people. There's like— you put me in a proto review meeting with 60 people of around and trying to figure out what a season's collection looks like. That's me in my element. That's, to me, the single best job that you could have in the world. And I really appreciate that so much because where I grew up, people just went to work to pay their bills, and they did mostly unenjoyable work, and they got to 5 o'clock and they were like, let me get out.

And they went to the bar, right?

Like, that's what they did. That was the flow of their day. And I'm like, my day is— I am so lucky.

It's an adventure.

It's, it's, it's a privilege and an adventure, and I don't take one single thing for granted. Like, not— like, I opened my fridge this morning and I was like, imagine when I was little if you had a fridge with all those drinks in there. That's great. And I'm fully having that conversation with me, myself, like, fully. So to me, it's like, I'm so aware of everything that has happened. And, you know, I always think of this funny story because I'm obsessed— I love comedy. And when I was younger, I used to always watch Dave Chappelle and, um, and Chris Rock. And Chris has this thing where he talks about, like, when he gets his first big house and he keeps the bag packed at the door because he imagines one day someone's gonna be like, knock, knock, knock, like, you're out. And that's how I feel, really. I'm like waiting for someone to say, this is not your life, 'Are you crazy? Like, go, go back.' So there's a, there's a constant, like, thing for me to always be like, 'Okay, I'm not going to rest on my laurels. If I get an opportunity, I'm going for it. If I have, uh, somebody saying to me, Emma, have you looked at this? Is this possible?' Like, I'm going to go all in because I imagine that all of it can be lost in a second.

Really?

Oh yes. Oh yes.

Do you feel like you've made it?

In so many ways I I have, um, because I'm so happy and I'm so like— I'm very aware that I am living the single best moment of my life. Like, I don't get happier than now. I don't get better looking than now. I don't get fitter than now. Like, in fact, I'm on my way out. Like, it's all downhill. Um, but I, I really have an awareness about that. And so when I think, you know, it's like I take a long time off in the summer, like real Euro style, you know, it's like I go away a month, whatever. Yeah. Weeks. I go to Europe and I like, you know, I really go in because to me, like, that time you can't get back. Those summers you can't get back. My kids are only going to be little for so long. And so I really try to put a lot in, and I'm like a memory maker. I am crazy. I will celebrate everything— Easter, Thanksgiving, Halloween, Christmas. I love America because you're always celebrating something. Like, I didn't even know what Thanksgiving was 10 years ago.

Now you're doing it. Let's go!

Christmas practice. I come like, let's go, let's do turkey number one. But you know, it's like I'm— and I do it big. I go all in and I make the celebration because I know that life is so precious and I'm so excited about it. And I am just like here for like every single bit of it. So as much as I love the work and the, and the chase and the, and the whole thing, I'm very, um, I'm very mindful that I also need to really enjoy it. And there's an awareness of that.

It's a both/and, like you talk about.

Both/and. All day long.

Two final questions for you, Emma. Again, this has been really inspiring and powerful, so thank you for opening up and sharing. Your book is called Start with Yourself: A New Vision for Work and Life. Make sure you don't only get one copy, but you get at least two, one for you and one for a friend. Give a gift away because something you mentioned earlier made me think about when I started making money, for many years, a lot of people had to buy my meals. And I remember the first time, because you mentioned like the first time you could like not look at the price and then you just say, I want this, whatever, $50 steak or $100 thing, whatever, and be like, and I'm okay and I'm not going to go broke. I remember the first time I could pay for a friend's meal.

Wow.

And the feeling it gave me of like, I'm safe. Like, I'm going to be I'm not going to be broke when for years people had to buy my meals. And it felt very shameful when I was in my mid-20s and I couldn't pay for my own meals.

Oh, yeah.

And so I want to acknowledge you for the journey you've been on, for all the things you have had to overcome. Even though I know you said like you knew from the beginning and everything was fine, I still know that there must have been— there was anger for a reason. Yeah, there was a lot of anger for a lot of reasons. Reasons that I know you talk about in the book, but also that you're probably still unpacking in your own life. And you don't need to share it all here. But I want to acknowledge you for finding some peace in your heart, because I think you with peace is better than you with anger.

Oh, God.

And I think if you with a level of anger can have created what you've created, I can only imagine what you with all love can do in the world. And so I really acknowledge you for the journey you're on. We're all on a healing journey forever. You know, it's going to take time for me, you, everyone. But I'm so excited to see you in 3, 5, 7, 10 years with love continued to be added. Not that it wasn't as well, but at a whole different level of your life. And I'm just so excited for the difference that you've made and you'll continue to make with that intention living in your heart. So I hope people get to— yeah, you're welcome.

That's such a lovely thing to say.

You're welcome.

Me too, by the way.

Because again, I was driven by anger, frustration, whatever it was, not feeling good enough, all those things to go achieve. And I did it. But then I was like, oh, but I still don't feel good with me. Why is there still anger in me? And then I started to shift and started to do the healing work. And it's like, oh, look what I can create with more love.

Right.

It's not that I don't have some of that in me still.

No. And you need that little bit in you. Have to transform.

Yeah, exactly. So I acknowledge you for that. It's pretty cool. People can get your book, Start with Yourself. They can go to your Instagram. You've created a lot more content, your podcast as well.

Thank you.

EmmaGreede.com. That's G-R-E-E-D-E.com as well. This is a question I ask everyone at the end. It's called the 3 truths. So imagine a hypothetical scenario. You get to live as long as you want, but then it's the last day on this earth for you. And in this hypothetical scenario, you create all of your wildest dreams. All the memories happen, life, it all works the way you want it. But on the last day, for whatever reason, you have to take all of your work with you. This book, this conversation, everything you shared in the world, it's got to go with you to the next place. So we don't have access to your content anymore. But on the final day, you get to leave behind 3 lessons. I call it the 3 truths. What would those 3 truths be for you?

I think the first one has to be about who you surround yourself with, because I was, um, so lucky that I had such an incredible family unit coming up, and I've seen what that has meant and, and the sort of stabilizing factor that that had in my life. I felt so loved as a kid. I didn't have much, we didn't have a lot to go around, around. But it's like there was never a question of whether or not I was loved. And so the big truth would be that, you know, how important family is and to love one another and to lead with love. Like, that was just, you know, and I was— I can't remember who I was listening to, it might have been Oprah recently, who said nobody ever told her that they loved her. And I was like, wow, I was told every day, like every family member in my, you know, they kiss you on the lips, like it or not, and they tell you that they love you and they mean they love you. And I always felt that, and I do the same with my kids every day.

That's beautiful.

So that would be the first thing.

That's beautiful.

I think the second thing, the truth is that, and I'm learning this and continue to learn this as I get older, but I have a great friend, Diane von Furstenberg, and she says the most important relationship you'll ever have is the relationship you have with yourself. And I take that so seriously, like how I speak to myself, how I treat myself, how I think about me and my needs, my wants, my abilities. And as you get older, getting close to yourself is so important. And I think that the more of that that I'm doing, you know, I'm not religious, I have a spiritual practice, but like really getting close to myself and understanding myself is like probably my best investment.

Beautiful. Yeah.

The last thing, the last truth is maybe that your work isn't what you think it is. You know, this idea of self-fulfillment. Like, I do a lot of nonprofit work, and I'm on the board of the Obama Foundation. I'm on the board of an incredible organization called Baby2Baby. And when I think about the sum of my work, not just in the businesses, but the full sum of it and what I'm able to do, and I would never be able to do those, what I do in nonprofit world, had I not had the commercial reality of my businesses. But the full sum of my work, work has been so important that you have to choose really carefully where you put your energy as it pertains to your work. And that's a real truth, because I could just keep going and going and be thinking about me. And so much of what I'm doing between my podcast and the book is actually about creating a blueprint and a new model, but for people outside me. Like, I didn't write book because I thought people care particularly much about what it is that I've done and how I've become successful. I think people want to understand how they can be successful themselves. And so I think about your work and your energy as being so important and how you use that is like such a big thing for me. So I would be really mindful about how you use your precious energy as it pertains to your output.

Amen. Final question for you. Again, make sure you guys grab a copy, Start With Yourself, right now. The final question, Emma: what's your definition of greatness?

My definition of greatness, it has to be, I guess, self-fulfillment, because I think at the end of the day, that's what we're all here to do, right? We're here to live up to our highest potential. And I think that that is what I'm trying to do. It's what I'm on a journey for. And I think that that's greatness.

Thanks for being here.

Thank you, my dear. What a pleasure.

I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad-free listening, then make sure to subscribe subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you, and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you, if no one has told you lately, that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now It's time to go out there and do something great.

Look, if you've got prescriptions, the Walmart app is your place to manage them. Transfer your scripts, refill them, and have them delivered straight to you. Migraines managed, allergies alleviated, dermatology done.

Derma delivered.

Ding dong! Is that your pizza? Nope, Walmart Pharmacy delivery with a refill. Switch to Walmart and manage your prescriptions in the app. The Walmart you thought you knew is now new. Delivery not available for all prescriptions. Exclusions apply. Courage. I learned it from my adoptive mom. Hold my hand. You hold my hand. Learn about adopting a teen from foster care at adoptuskids.org.

You can't imagine the reward.

Brought to you by AdoptUSKids, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, and the Ad Council.