Stop Wasting Your Life With THIS Mindset Shift w/ Bozoma Saint John EP 1397

[LOUIS ]: Okay, so if you haven't heard the news yet, I've got a new book.

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This idea of like waiting to heal before you do the thing, that's like the opposite of living the urgent life. You know, because if you're constantly waiting until you are healed, Welcome to the School of Greatness.

Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

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[LOUIS ]: I'm so excited about this because you've had such an amazing life and multiple careers in multiple Industries at the highest level as, you know, head of marketing at pretty much every major company that people have ever heard of. So you've been around the block in life, you've been around the block and experiencing a lot of injustice in the world, but also injustices in relationships, heartbreak, pain, suffering, and also great success. So you've experienced a lot of great things while also dealing with dark times. And the first thing I want to ask you is how is your heart?

Is that how we started out? Well, you know what? Maybe it's no coincidence, right? There's a heart on the COVID of my book.

[LOUIS ]: Yes.

My heart is really good right now. It's really, really good. I feel very full in my life that there is so much that, like you said, I've accomplished that makes me feel proud. There's so much that I have to look forward to in the future that I'm really excited about, even though it's unknown to me. I don't have a plan, you know, but I feel really excited about it. I feel satisfied with like where I am, the age I'm at, the things I've done. Like I feel good. I feel really, really good.

[LOUIS ]: Most people never feel satisfied, right? They don't feel satisfied in their career or the relationships or even if they've been successful, how much success they've had, they don't feel that fulfillment and satisfaction. Why do you think you've come to a place of satisfied?

Yeah.

[LOUIS ]: While at the same time, you're not clear of what you're gonna step into next.

Yeah.

You know what? You just actually said something that brought back a memory. Because I don't mean to sound corny about it, but I think I've always been satisfied with where I am. It doesn't mean that I don't have ambition. I've been very ambitious. I think you just look at my resume and you're just like, oh yeah, this ambitious person. But I've always felt very satisfied. And what you just brought up for me, the memory you just brought, is that I remember it was probably 2000, maybe 2001. I was in New York City. I was the assistant to Spike Lee at his advertising agency, Spike DDB. And I had just moved from Connecticut where I had spent an extra year after graduating from college. And I was trying to figure out what to do. I was like trying to stave off medical school 'cause that's where my dad wanted me to go and da-da-da. And I was, you know, grabbing coffee and making copies and just trying to stay out the way in the office basically, go where I needed to be. But it was such a dream to be in New York and riding the subway and like sort of independence and trying to figure it out. Didn't have money to do anything.

Nothing.

Nothing, no money at all. and I was working late one night and I was really late, like 9 or 10 o'clock, I was still in the office. And I remember the office manager said I could take a car service home instead of riding the train, 'cause I lived in Jersey City and, you know, it's late night. Yeah, I take the subway to the path train, cross the water, and walk home.

[LOUIS ]: It was an hour, something.

Oh man, it was treacherous. And so I got a car service and it was one of those black cars. You know, and I sat in the back, and it was my first time, like, you know, having a car in a nice car like that, where I had a driver, and they were like, are you, you know, at that point, I was unmarried, so are you Miss Arthur? And I was like, yes, you know, and I sat down and he's driving, and I remember rolling down the window and just like being like, God, life is really good.

[LOUIS ]: Wow.

Life is really, really good, you know, and feeling very satisfied in that moment. It didn't mean that I didn't have ambitions of one day ruling the planet.

[LOUIS ]: Yeah, sure, yeah.

And having car services every day, whenever I wanted. You know, but I do remember, you just reminded me of that moment feeling really satisfied. So even as I sit here today, I still have big dreams, big ambition. I don't know where it is I'm going, but I feel very, very satisfied with where I am.

[LOUIS ]: That's beautiful.

Yeah.

[LOUIS ]: I'm curious about you're a very driven person. You've shown that over your whole career, right? In your life, overcome a lot of different challenges and adversities and first time in so many different ways. When someone is going through a dark time and however that looks for them, a breakup, a death, a letdown, any type of dark time in their life, is it possible to keep being driven in your career and your goals and your dreams when you're going through sadness and darkness and grief and loss without also being able to heal on the process. Can you heal and be driven at the same time? Or is it only you can be driven because you're masking the pain and the suffering and you're not actually addressing it? Is it possible to do both, be driven in the darkness.

Yeah, but that's what's so beautiful about this experience in life, right? Is that, like, we don't have to be one dimensional, that all things can be true at the same time. You know, it's the reason why it's like, I remember once shortly after Peter had died, I was sitting with a friend and she was telling me a story, and I started laughing hysterically, you know, it was like, yeah, it was like from my belly, you know, the kind of laugh that makes you want to fall over and slap something, you know, that kind of laugh. And then almost stopping short because I was like, oh, I'm supposed to be sad. You know, I'm not supposed to laugh like this. The truth of the matter is that life, isn't that what life is? You know, even when you're grieving, you can have belly laughs that take you out of that pain for however long that is. Maybe it's a second, or maybe it's five minutes, or maybe it's a few days. You know, so like, if you're in a dark place, can you still be driven?

Of course you can.

You know, it's not a constant either though, you know, where it's like being gentle with yourself and knowing that like even when you're in the darkness, there will be times when you don't feel like getting up. But it's not forever, you know, or to feel badly that you're driven even though you're going through something, you know, so like even when, yeah, it was.

Like.

When I decided to move from New York and take the next job, and people were like, Shouldn't you be in a cave somewhere, crying your eyes out? You know, like, why are you so ambitious? Sit down. You know? And yeah, I did question myself too. Like, why am I not sitting down somewhere? Like, why am I still out here pushing? You know, like there were, there have been many, many moments like that, and I don't think that There has to be only one definition for how we are, you know? So like, yes, if you're in a place where you feel like the textbook expectation should be that you should take one step at a time, take it one day at a time, I hate that phrase, by the way.

[LOUIS ]: Instead of taking one day at a time, what should we do?

We should take it all. Do everything all at once. Make it messy. Make it unpredictable. Defy logic. Like, why does it have to be so ordered? One day at a time for what? One step at a time for what? Sometimes I'm gonna run, sometimes I'm gonna skip, sometimes I'm gonna go backwards, sometimes I'm gonna lay down, sometimes I'm gonna sit up and look at the world. And sometimes, yes, I will take one step. But why does it have to be so ordered all the time? And so the freedom in that, I think, allows us then to be multiple things at one time. so that yes, you can be driven and in a dark place. You can be hurting and still laugh. You can be healing and still trying to figure out how to avoid the next hurt. All of those things can be true at the same time and doesn't have to mean that you're wrong or that you're doing it wrong. It's like there's no definition for how you're supposed to live your life. And I think that's also the other beautiful thing. you know, the fact that, like, no one has ever been where I am before, not a person on the planet, you know? And so it's like, why would I subscribe to the steps somebody else thinks I should be ordered for me?

Right.

There's no plan.

Yeah.

[LOUIS ]: No one fully understands your life experiences. They might be able to relate to some things, but they don't fully understand and comprehend everything.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there's so much freedom in there.

Yeah.

It's like you don't have to listen to anybody.

[LOUIS ]: Right, exactly.

You know, and so it's like, yes, you can be hurt and trying to heal, maybe taking the steps to healing, you know, whether that's therapy or you're working on something that you feel like or taking a risk that you would have been fearful of before, but still like being driven about this thing or like being, you know, like, okay, I'm gonna accomplish this even though I'm not 100% that's the thing that always, like I'm thinking about is that, like, again, you don't have to have a full tank of gas to get to the other side of town.

You know what I mean?

Maybe you had a quarter tank and you know that it's gonna take you, like, you know, just up to that, like, right at that quarter to get there. You know, it's like, go anyway. Why does the tank have to be full? You know what I mean? So for me, I'm constantly thinking about that, that, like, I'm still in the process of healing, you know, that that whole statement about, like, time heals all. Heals all wounds. this is a bull. Okay.

[LOUIS ]: It's interesting to say that because my. I've got an emotional coach that I work with. I was telling you about pretty much every two weeks.

And.

[LOUIS ]: She says, like, healing is a journey. It's not like a destination where you're like, okay, now I'm healed. It's okay. Now I've come to an awareness about the things. Now I've started processing it, and I'm integrating the lessons now. Oh, now I went back two steps. because I triggered again. Now I reintegrate and I process it some more and time helps, but it may not heal all. You know what I mean? So it's our constant awareness of it, constant grace in the process of being a human being.

Yes.

[LOUIS ]: Of it, you know what I mean?

Yes. You know what? You just made me think of something because like this idea of like waiting to heal before you do the thing. That's like the opposite of living the urgent life. You know, because if you're constantly waiting until you are healed, or you're constantly waiting until that next thing happens, or you get to the right spot, then you won't be fulfilled in your life. You know, if I waited to be totally healed from the trauma of my husband dying, I would not have moved across the country.

[LOUIS ]: -Sure.

-If I was waiting to be healed from the death of my first child, I would not be a mother today. You know, if I was waiting, like all these things that we're waiting to accomplish or waiting to be fixed before you can do the next thing, it's just it's like a waste of time. Yeah, I think it's inspiring when we.

[LOUIS ]: Have the courage to do the next thing and be aware that we're on a healing journey. Yes.

Yeah.

[LOUIS ]: I'm never going to be fully healed, but I'm in the process of it. I'm working on it. I'm doing this and I'm going to do it anyways. And there's no shame.

Yeah, exactly. There's no shame in that, you know? By the way, that's another whole unlock that I had for myself and in my career, believe it or not, was that I opened this vulnerability that I had closed off before. You know, this idea of the perfection, that things had to be great and complete in order to move to the next thing. Very quickly, I mean, I was kind of thrown into it when I accepted the job with Jimmy. They're like, I had no idea what music streaming was. I'd never done that before. I was not an expert in it. But it didn't mean that I couldn't go do it. And guess what? I figured it out. You know what I mean? Or like moving, any anything in my life, which has felt like, gosh, I need to really have conquered this thing in order to move to the next one. has been a lie. And it is actually how I counsel a lot of women, especially, who are early in their career or mid-career even, who are waiting to rack all the things before they take the next risk. I'm just like, yo, you know that that actually doesn't work, right? You can't wait until you've checked off every box. before you jump to the next thing that you gotta do. You gotta leave some room for growth. You know, your cup is, if it's all the way full, how are you gonna put more stuff in it? You know what I'm saying? Like, it's, you gotta have a little bit open at the top in order to pour more experiences in there. You know, so it's like, if you ever just like fall to the brim, if you've checked off everything, then there's no more growth for you. So as I even look at myself, that is where I am now, where it's just like, there is no more growth if you're all the way full. if you're checked off everything before you take the next risk, where are you going to put the stuff that you're getting?

Yeah.

[LOUIS ]: You know?

So, yes, like, leave the tank like quarter full. Well, that's why I think it's really.

[LOUIS ]: Cool, because in this off season that you're having in this last year, you're filling up your cup of your health and wellness, you're filling up your relationship cups, you're filling up your adventure and travel cups, you know, your relaxation cup. You're filling those up, but you're emptying your cup of career and success and this to see the space of what.

Can come in next.

[LOUIS ]: That's right. To see where you can grow into next. So I think it's a great analogy. It's like, you know, fill another cup, you know?

Yeah.

[LOUIS ]: But that cup, you gotta empty it out. Yeah, exactly.

Or get more cups. You know what I mean? Give more cups. You know what I mean? It's like, maybe my corporate cup is full.

[LOUIS ]: Sure. I have a brand new cup. But you look like you're in your best health and wellness phase of your, you know, since I've known you. Oh, yeah. Not that you were not in great shape before, or emotionally in a good place, but you feel energetically peaceful. I see you training, I see you getting healthy in even better ways. I see you with photos with your daughter and things like this and just enjoying life together, traveling and bringing her in your life more in those trips. I'm sure you did that before too, but so you're able to experience things in a different way to allow for things to open up, which I think is great.

Absolutely, absolutely. But that's also, like I said, part of the learning of this, you know, which is just like, I don't have to have had things complete in order to move to the next thing. You know, I'm sure there are people who would look at my career and say, oh, but you haven't done that thing yet. You know, don't you think you should do that before you retire?

Right.

You know, but, like, do I need it? Probably not, you know? And so it's like, right. why continue? Why continue to do that thing? So again, I think a lot of it really just has to do with self-reflection at the end of the day.

[LOUIS ]: Yes.

You know, listening to your own spirit, listening to your own needs and wants, and making sure that you're not lying to yourself based on the stories that other people have told you, based on narratives that are running around the planet that you've accepted as the truth, and maybe we're lies, you know what I mean? So I feel like there's such an opportunity for me, too, you know, to re-look at everything and yes, be a healthier human and focus more on like, yeah, my physical health.

[LOUIS ]: Yes.

And focus on my relationship with my daughter, you know, explore the planet in ways that I haven't before, you know, like in 2022, I did a little Instagram reel about this that I every month, last year, I worked out in a different country.

[LOUIS ]: You worked out in a different country? Yeah, it's pretty cool.

It was fantastic.

[LOUIS ]: That's awesome.

But you know, it was like, God, what a dream, you know, to be in a place where I'm financially secure enough to do that.

[LOUIS ]: That's cool.

Where I have the time to do that.

[LOUIS ]: You spent 20 years building your career and you're, you know, stacking your income and saving and investing so that you have the opportunity after 20 years to do that.

Yeah, and to take advantage and enjoy it.

Yeah.

[LOUIS ]: And have an urgency around it.

Man, because like what am I gonna do when I'm 75? Well hopefully I'll still be working out and still healthy. But you know what I'm saying? Like waiting for that is not the answer. So even in that I have urgency.

[LOUIS ]: So there's this, you know, I love your story about you were satisfied at 20 something years old in the back of the, you know, the cab or the black car. and you're satisfied now. And I think a lot of people hear this concept of never be satisfied. But we were just talking about how, you know, be satisfied with where you are, but also be striving for your purpose, your mission, and stepping into that.

Yeah.

[LOUIS ]: And what are your thoughts on the idea of never be satisfied?

You know what? I understand why somebody would say that. You know, like you should always be hungry. Like you should always be chasing. That's a good motivator, you know, to get the next thing so that you wake up and you want to go get it. But that's a terrible way to live. It's like, I vehemently disagree with the concept that you should never be satisfied. You know, it's like, you should be satisfied. You should be satisfied. You should wake up feeling satisfied with your life. It doesn't mean that you don't want the next thing. Of course you want the next thing. But like, if life were to end today, would you want to have lived an unsatisfied life? Would you want, like, I think, I really do think of Peter at those last days, you know, and think about all the things that he was unsatisfied about. I don't want that for myself. I don't want that for you. I don't think any of us should live that way.

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. When you're at your best, you can do great things. But sometimes life gets you bogged down and you may feel overwhelmed or like you're just not showing up the way you want to. Working with a therapist can help you get closer to the best version of yourself. Before I got into podcasting, I was a professional football player and I had a career ending injury that turned that dream upside down for me. And since I didn't have the tools then that I have now from years.

[LOUIS ]: And years of therapy, I would ruminate.

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[LOUIS ]: Of my life for the better.

Don't let suppressed feelings control your emotions and in turn, your life's trajectory. If you want to live a more empowered life, therapy can get you there. Visit betterhelp.com/Lewis today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp.com/L-E-W-I-S. This year, learn more than ever before with Wondrium. Wondrium is an educational platform with content covering almost any topic you can you could imagine. One Dream hosts documentaries, series, lessons, how tos and more, all together covering just about anything you can imagine. With One Dream, you get a huge selection of videos, over 8, 000 hours, flexibility to switch to audio only, which is also great for multitasking, quality programs that are expert-led easy to follow and beautifully filmed. Watch on your phone, tablet, TV or computer with no commercials, no tests or stress. I'm on a lifelong journey of bettering myself in order to serve others, and meditation is a huge part of that Journey for me. So if you're on your own meditation Journey, I highly recommend checking out the 21 day meditation challenge with my friend Light Watkins. It's so powerful. Learn about what you love and love learning about it with Wondrium. Do what I did. Sign up for Wondrium today. And right now my listeners can get two years of Wondrium for the price of one, but it's only available if you sign up through my special URL. Go to wondrium.com slash greatness. That's W-O-N-D-R-I-U-M.com slash greatness. Wondrium.com slash greatness.

So be satisfied. You know, and that doesn't mean lesser than.

[LOUIS ]: Be satisfied even if you're just starting out as an assistant getting coffee. If you're the CEO, if you're anywhere in between, if you're in an off season.

Yes. Be satisfied. Be satisfied with like how wonderful you have it. You know, even the least of us, even the people who are like, you know, in this terrible place, like I said, We can be satisfied. Like the day after Peter died, actually no. It was a few days later because we were having his funeral. He died on December 11, 2013. It was four days before his 44th birthday. And so on his 44th birthday, December 15th, we had his funeral and made it a party. And I was sitting there and kind of in a haze, but then also that moment of clarity. where I'm looking around the room and his fraternity brothers are drinking beers and they're sharing stories about him. And my daughter's sleeping on my mom's lap and I've got my sisters in the corner trying to busy themselves, getting out plates of food and whatnot and see people connecting. And it was the oddest thought. I looked around and I was just like, wow. This is a good group of people. This is a great place to be, to have this. And so I was satisfied in that moment. The most terrible thing had happened in my life, but I was looking around and feeling very satisfied with who I had around me. And that, I think, is what I would like for all of us. to consider. That even when things are bad and going wrong, you can still be satisfied. You can still feel like, this is it. And it is okay.

Yeah? It's okay.

[LOUIS ]: I'm a big fan of the title of the book, the Urgent Life. And when I saw this, I was just thinking to myself, yes, right away, because we have similar completely different experiences but similar feelings probably from experiences we've had. So my father got in an accident. He had a traumatic brain injury and was in a coma for three months when I was 21. And I remember we didn't know if he was gonna live or die but he eventually woke up after three months. And he was a completely different person. Like he was physically alive but emotionally and mentally kind of gone. It took him a while to like learn how to talk again. He wasn't able to work anymore. He had amnesia, so when I'd see him, he'd be like, what's your name again? It was just a different type of relationship, right? I had to learn to love my father for who he was and start to grieve the man that he once was before.

Right?

[LOUIS ]: And I remember thinking he was in his early 50s when this happened. He had worked so hard for 30 years to as a life insurance salesman where he finally was starting to make money where he could like travel and have some freedom in his life. And he was starting to feel like he was happy for the first time, fully happy. And then this accident happened. And I remember being really angry at life that my dad didn't get to go live the rest of his life the way he wanted to. And I felt like I had so much urgency to go pursue everything I wanted. Like from that moment on, I was like, I'm not gonna let any fear or insecurity hold me back. It might still be there, but I'm at least gonna take the actions on my goals, my dreams, and live urgently because what if this happens to me? What if I get in a car accident tomorrow? And something like that happens to me, I'd be sad that I didn't at least go try. And this, you know, again, completely different experience you had, but it created the feeling of urgency in your life with your ex-husband, right? With your husband. Yeah. And, which was almost 10 years ago.

Yeah.

[LOUIS ]: Is that right?

Yeah.

[LOUIS ]: And can you explain the story about what had happened with your husband around wanting to get divorced and then cancer situation and how this, how being in a very dark, sad, challenging time, sad.

Time.

[LOUIS ]: Wanted you to create urgency at the same time and live into your best self during sadness. Can you explain a little bit about that?

Well, first of all, I really appreciate what you just said and shared about your dad, you know? Because I feel that for all of us who are living this life on this like hurdling rock that we call.

Home.

We don't always have to have had the same experience to understand essentially the concept of what I'm talking about.

Right.

You know, this need for urgency. And it's not necessarily about the rush through life. It's about the intention.

Mm-.

Knowing, like you said, like, you know, I want to do these things because what if? So then you're intentional about saying, okay, I want to live a big life, or I want to go do this thing that I'm dreaming of, or I want to push a little harder because, like, what if?

Right?

And the same thing for me in that, like, I don't think of the end of life in this morbid way where I'm just like, oh, today might be my last day. I'll think of it in a morbid way. It's very inspiring to me actually. It makes me want to get up and go do the thing.

You know?

And again, it's not about a rush. It's like, I want to make the best use of my time that I have. I don't know how long it is, but I want to make the best use of it. And I'm also conscious of the fact that I won't do everything. And so that means that I have to be very intentional about the things I choose to do. Because if you walk around thinking like, oh, I have the time, I'll just do everything at some point, Ooh, then maybe you don't get to do anything at all. So I'm intentional in knowing that like, oh, okay, I might not get a chance to complete everything, so what's the most important thing? And then I want to do those things. And so at the time in December of 2013 when Peter passed away, we were there, you know, where the stories are true, you're sitting at the deathbed, and you're talking about all the things you wish you'd done.

[LOUIS ]: Is that what he was saying?

Oh, yeah. We talked about so much.

[LOUIS ]: Oh, man.

The things he wanted to do, his hopes and dreams, what he wants for Lael, our daughter, like what he wanted for her in the future. You know, all of those things. And I was sitting there listening and thinking and crying and making promises and all of the things, and knowing that I need to change the way I live. you know, he wouldn't have a chance to do it over. So I need to do it, you know? And it was such a dark time also because we were already going through so much on top of being at death's door, you know, that like our marriage had fallen apart. We had been separated for a couple of years already through so much. Oh, gosh. additional traumas that happened to us, misunderstandings, anger, you know, that we couldn't overcome with just love.

[LOUIS ]: Unmet expectations, everything, yeah.

Oh man, you think love conquers everything and love is not enough.

[LOUIS ]: Love is not enough.

Love is not enough. You know, love is not enough. And it was all of that turmoil that led us to that moment where I am sitting holding his hand and his breath gets shallower and shallower, you know, and thinking about all the things I would have done differently if I had a shot to do it again. You know, it's not necessarily that like, oh, I wish life had turned out differently. It's just that I wish I had been motivated differently.

[LOUIS ]: What were you motivated by before then?

Oh, man. I think at that time I was motivated by just my own need for my own life, you know, not really focused on anybody else's. And that sounds very selfish, but that's where I was. You know, it was not, I was a mother and a wife, but I was still only focused on myself.

[LOUIS ]: Really?

Yeah.

[LOUIS ]: At that time.

Yeah.

I mean, it's like, you know, there was so much that had happened on my path to motherhood. And it's another one of the things that like, you know, now I talk about so openly because we also paint motherhood like it's supposed to be like this great, amazing thing that like, oh, you get pregnant and then all of a sudden, it's like, oh, all this love shows up from nowhere and you're just like encapsulated by this person. It's like, no, that actually doesn't happen.

All of the time.

[LOUIS ]: Moments of that might happen.

Moments of that might happen, but it's.

[LOUIS ]: Not-- the majority of the time is probably like cleaning diapers and feeding and pumping and all of that.

And sitting there and being like, oh hell, I made a mistake. This is not what I wanted in my life, you know? And struggling with that. And there were so many times where I thought about that. It was like, wow, like, you know, is this life what I actually wanted? And so then at that moment in December of 2013, I was like, oh no, I have to make the life that I want. I have to make it. I have to be an active participant in it. You don't just sit back and let the life happen to you. You have to make it.

[LOUIS ]: Wow. What was the biggest lesson during that time you feel like you learned.

About.

[LOUIS ]: His regrets or about him not doing the things that he wanted to do? What opened up for you during that time that shifted if anything did shift for you in that?

This might sound funny, but I think logic It's what surprised me most, the logic of things. The writing down, it's almost like the writing down of the plan. Things that make sense? 'Cause you're like, oh, I'm gonna do these things. I'm logically gonna take these steps in order to get to that thing, right? And all of his regrets, everything that he wanted to do that he didn't get a chance to do was based on the logic of the steps to get to that thing that he never got to.

[LOUIS ]: Like just scheduling it in the calendar or like booking a trip.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then yeah. And then it's like, oh, I'm gonna do this and I'm gonna do that. All based on logic. Life is not made of logic. Life is magic. It's the accidental encounters. It's the things that you can't explain. The feeling that you get in your belly that makes you feel alive and glittery, or it makes you super sad and you don't wanna get out of bed and the sky just looks gray. And then maybe one thing happens, you're like, oh, okay, I can do it. You know, that's life. and being open to that is actually what gives you the experiences. So therefore, when perhaps you don't accomplish everything that was on your plan, you still feel really happy about the things that you did do, because it was also magical. You know? And I'm not talking about like these big firework things. I'm talking about the little stuff too. You know, the new person that you meet on the way to somewhere, you know, or like, the meal that you had that you didn't think was going to be delicious, that you just really savored. It was just magically amazing. And just being appreciative of those moments. So again, it's like the life is not just about the big, big, big stuff. It's not the headlines. So to me, it's like logic is what I've been throughout the window.

[LOUIS ]: Interesting.

I was like, oh, I'm not going to live a logical life. I'm going to live a magical life. the kind that is open to all of the things I can't explain. You know, that like the writing down of the list and the making the staffs. Ah, you know, and I'm not saying that you walk around just like, huh, whatever happens today is what happens, you know, like, look, we all got to be responsible.

[LOUIS ]: Sure.

Okay.

But the truth of the matter is that like how many of our plans have been stopped because of logic. The things that you said, like, ah, well, shoot, I can't do that because of this reason and that reason and that reason. and sometimes it's other people's logic that actually stops you from doing things you want to do. And so I want to stop that. I've been active in being like, every time I approach a new ambition or a new idea or like, oh, I want to take a trip here and that logic starts to come in, I'm like, girl, where's that magic? You better just step out and let the magic find you. You don't and not stop yourself because the math is, is mathing.

Right.

[LOUIS ]: It doesn't make sense logically.

It doesn't make sense logically.

[LOUIS ]: Allow wonder and synchronicity to enter your life.

To happen. Louise, I can't tell you how many things have happened in my life that don't make sense.

Right.

The fact that I've had the career I've had doesn't make sense. It's not logical. There's no stat. Even when you look at things like, oh, you know how many black women CMOs have had jobs, you know, four, like Fortune 50 companies. There's no math. There is no data point. No, it doesn't exist. Yeah, but I exist. So can you explain that? No, you cannot. So opening yourself up to like these things is what actually creates your destiny to like run the way that it should. You know, I'll give you one example. When Peter died in December 2013, I was at PepsiCo. I'd been there for 10 years.

[LOUIS ]: Wow.

It was a great job. You know, I'd done many iterations of things. And at that time, I was the head of music and entertainment marketing. And so I had been part of the team that did the deal with NFL for the Super Bowl halftime show. I put Beyonce on that stage. Like, it was like, you know, it was huge. Having a great, exciting career. And then Peter died, and I looked around, and I was like, man, like, you know, I think I want to do more things, you know, am I going to sit here for another 10 years in New York City, like doing this, or have I had enough of this? And as I formulated that thought, I went to, I think it was NBA All-Star or something like that. And I met somebody that I knew very, you know, lightly who told me that Jimmy Iovine and Dr. Dre had started their company beats music off of the back of Beats by Dre and that they were looking for head of marketing. Would I be interested? And the job was in LA. My husband had been dead maybe two months. I had a four-year-old child that I was trying to figure out how to raise by myself, you know, like all these things. And so logic would tell you that, no, sit your down, right? You know what I mean? Like, situate your life. Figure out how to be a widow and a single mom and. the main breadwinner, like figure that stuff out, calm down, get some therapy. You know, just like sit and be quiet for a second, grieve, let a year go by and then figure out what you want to do. But instead, I was like, it really doesn't make any sense for me to leave Pepsi, a long established company, and go to Beats Music where it's barely a company.

[LOUIS ]: Some new thing.

Yeah.

I didn't know what music streaming was. I had no idea what the Oh, that was. I had no idea. And. But I came and came to LA and took a meeting with Jimmy, and he was talking about stuff that I had no idea about. And when I resigned from PepsiCo to take the job, everybody told me it was a bad idea.

It was.

When I tell you there was not one person who supported it. Not even my mother. Wow. No one. Everybody thought I'd lost my mind. People thought I was acting out of grief. Maybe I was. But the magic was that that opportunity opened up the next 10 years of my life. It was the magic, the spark that I needed. It changed everything for me, Louis. Everything.

[LOUIS ]: And what would have happened if you would have listened to everyone else's fears and not made the jump?

Well, my friend, that's a great unknown. I'd be saying, maybe still at PepsiCo, perhaps unsatisfied with where I was. There's lots of friends that I have who are still there. In fact, I got a text from a friend about two days ago who just left after 34 years at PepsiCo. And now she's trying to figure out what next to do. And so she called me to ask for advice.

[LOUIS ]: You're the pro. You've done this before.

And I just wonder, for her even, it's like, what if spend 20 years there. Interesting. The last 14 years, what would you have done? You know, I don't want to get to the end of my life and ask that question. I don't want to sit there and say like, oh man, what would I have done if I'd taken that leap, just tried that other thing? Maybe you fail, but that's okay. Yeah.

You know, you can pick yourself up again.

[LOUIS ]: It's okay. For sure. Yeah. I'm curious, so this will be, this is I guess the 10 year anniversary.

Coming up at the end of this.

[LOUIS ]: Year of him passing.

Yeah.

[LOUIS ]: What do you feel like he'd be most proud of you that you overcame over these 10 years? If you were able to watch you and speak to you, I'm sure maybe he speaks to you in other ways, but if he was speaking to you here in this world, what would be the thing he's most proud of?

Yeah.

[LOUIS ]: Of you?

I think he'd be proud of the fact that I didn't let fear stop me from anything. You know that old saying, it's not.

What you say, it's how you say it.

[LOUIS ]: I think that goes for how we live too. It's not just what we do, it's.

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You know, because we talked about that a lot, too. You know, this, like, it was so scary when he was diagnosed because it just, it really felt like came out of nowhere. I'm sure other people feel that same way, right? Where something disastrous happens and you're like, oh, my God, what? You know, you weren't, nobody's planning for trauma. Nobody plans for disaster. And so I think it's easy and probably excusable. if I were to carry on life looking around corners and being scared of what was coming, you know, what if I leave here and something happens to me? What if I find a lump? What if, what if, what if, you know, and living my life sort of caged that way, I don't think anyone would blame me. I don't think anybody would say like, ah bows, like you were just wasting your life. Like stop being so afraid. I don't think any of all the experiences in my life, I don't think anybody would tell me that I was living life wrong if I was cautious. And so I think he'd be proud of the fact that I am not cautious. That I'm freer today than I was 10 years ago. That I'm living bigger today than I was 10 years ago. And I hope he would be proud of me.

[LOUIS ]: That's cool. I'm sure he is. I wanted to ask you about what you said about, you know, when you had your child, and you realize that your life was completely different. It wasn't like, oh, it's perfect. Everything is perfect. The first two to four years, and I have all this love, and it's easy. You kind of. It sounded like you were kind of, you know, resentful a little bit of this experience.

Right.

[LOUIS ]: Which sounds to me is common for a lot of moms. Yeah. I've heard a lot of moms think it's going to be one way, and then the first year, it's like a slap in the face. And you get two hours of sleep a night and this and. and that and your identity changes. Yes. Which is beautiful, but it's also a grieving part that happens as well, right? It's like you're grieving an old identity and stepping into motherhood, which is. And I think there's a lot of women that relate to that.

Yeah.

[LOUIS ]: How did you, after his passing, learn to, I guess, embrace it in a different way or have a different relationship with motherhood? Or do you still have that same kind of feeling from 10 years ago? How did you experience that?

Oh man, well, I mean, it was, everything was so dramatic at the time that even my own thought of motherhood changed dramatically. I do remember actually the moment it happened. I was sitting, Like the moment you.

[LOUIS ]: Shifted your relationship to motherhood?

Yeah.

Oh, absolutely. I remember it's very, very clear to me. I was-- Lael was four when Peter died. And I was sitting in our bed, and it was like shortly after the funeral, and, you know, people had gone home, and it was super quiet. I was still on bereavement leave. And Lael had climbed into my bed, you know, was sleeping next to me. And I remember, like, looking at her and just thinking, like, Oh my God, I have to do this by myself.

Wow.

You know, and the terror of that. Because again, in all honesty, Peter was the one who wanted children. I wasn't sure I wanted kids. You know, and then all of a sudden, I was like, oh, okay. Oh, so you decided, you left. And left me here. You hear me? And left me here with her. What am I supposed to do now? And looking at her and feeling that, Terror and anger and confusion, uncertainty and thinking, God, she's four. I gotta do this for a long time by myself. And also feeling like I didn't have the answers, feeling like I was ill prepared for it. And so I did probably what mothers shouldn't do. and I shook her awake.

[LOUIS ]: She was asleep.

Oh, she was asleep. It was the middle of the night. She was asleep. You woke her up.

I woke her up.

Yeah, woke her up. And as I look at her, and I was like, and I didn't know what to say, but I just looked at her and she's like sleeping and looking like, yes, mom, you know, all innocent looking. And she's got these big doe eyes.

[LOUIS ]: And she's like looking at me all sweetly.

And I was like, I don't know what I'm doing. You said this to her? Yeah, I'm saying this to her. I'm like, I don't know what I'm doing. Wow. She's looking at me and clearly uncomprehending, right? I'm like, I don't know what I'm doing and I need your help. I need your help. And she's like, okay.

[LOUIS ]: Is this a dream? Is this in my wake?

She's like, okay. And I was like, I need you to tell me whatever you need. I need us to communicate, okay? Because I don't know how to figure out how to do this. So we're gonna do it together. And all she said was, okay, mommy. And she went right back to sleep. And Lewis, I'm telling you, that was the moment. That was the moment everything changed for me. Because the thing is, I think before that, I had seen her as a responsibility. You know, like I was supposed to step into this role of motherhood and have the answers and know the thing and lead the way. you know? But that moment, I just felt so inadequate and so lost. And the one person who I felt could help me was the person I'm supposed to be responsible for. And so it changed our relationship because even at four, at that point, literally the next day, I was like, okay, now look, here's what's going on. What do you think of this? You know what I mean? And it became more of a partnership, a partnership in raising her.

Mm-.

Than me having all the answers all the time. It also freed me from having to always be perfect. You know, that like I could grieve in front of her and I could be confused in front of her. And I could say, I don't know. What do you think?

Mm.

You know, or like when, you know, a few years later things got super busy and I was not available and, You know, I'm running around and other people were critical of the fact that, like, you know, I'm like this working mom who's out in the world all the time and where's my kid? You know? And like, I could go to her and say like, hey, so what do you think about this? Are you upset with me? Is this terrible? Is this a terrible experience? You know what I mean? Right, right, right.

[LOUIS ]: And-- the feedback.

Yeah.

And also give her the power to tell me. It is-- it-- dynamically changed the way we are. Now she's 13 and a half and has a very big say in how we are and what we do.

And.

She'S just such a blessing. You know, she's a wonderful person. And I would absolutely be her friend if I wasn't her mom.

[LOUIS ]: Wow.

You know, like I love her not just because I'm supposed to. I love her because she's an awesome human being. I really value our relationship.

[LOUIS ]: What's the biggest lesson she's taught you?

Oh man. That you don't have to be perfect in order to do a good job. You know? I'm certainly not a perfect mother, I'll tell you that. But she tells me all the time how great I am. You know, I wasn't home for my birthday, just this birthday I celebrated and she wrote me a text and just with gratitude, you know, she was just like, thank you so much. Wow. For everything that you do. And I was just like, man, let me brush my shoulders off. You know what I mean? So yeah, you don't have to be perfect to be really great.

Yeah.

[LOUIS ]: I mean, you're in this transition phase now, right? Because you left your previous role at your career. When was that?

February last year.

[LOUIS ]: February last year. So almost a year.

Yeah.

[LOUIS ]: So you've been in transition from essentially going to the biggest company and speaking and writing books and all these different things that have happened for you to essentially pausing, making the next jump, making the next decision and going bigger in the career aspect. Obviously you got an amazing book out but what have you learned in a year of pausing, making the decision on what to do next in terms of career? Obviously you're making other life decisions and taking care of your health and I see you doing all and living your best life all over the world that you do and all your Instagram is great. But in terms of like career, decision making, what have you learned in this last year that you could share for others who might be in a transition trying to figure out, I feel like I gotta make a decision.

You know, I felt like the last 10 years of my life have all been really big changes and really big jobs and, you know, some risks and all the things we've talked about that have led me to bigger and bigger and bigger. Ambition has driven me very much so, along with my gut. But it's been like, just, okay, got this and do that. And there's lots of headlines and lots of press and first to do this and first to do that, lots of those. And stepping away from all of that, I had to consider my ego.

[LOUIS ]: Yes.

You know, putting that in check because it was the first thing that assaulted me. You know what I mean? That first thing that made me think like, oh, but gosh, who am I without that title? Do people still like me?

[LOUIS ]: What's my identity?

Look, okay? Does the phone stop ringing? People stop asking you for favors and asking you to dinner?

[LOUIS ]: Interesting.

And sometimes that happens.

[LOUIS ]: It happens.

When you're not in that position, people will stop calling you.

[LOUIS ]: Stop inviting you.

Oh, man. Okay.

[LOUIS ]: Stop needing you.

All of the things. And so then, you know, it's like the addiction to that kicks in, right? And having to figure out like, okay, do I want another job? Because I like the work. I like the thing that I'm doing. Where's my ego? Am I trying to fulfill other people's expectations of me? Do I feel less than because I don't have this thing? That's been a tough one. It's been a tough lesson. I had no idea that that lesson existed before I stepped away. And by the way, I wasn't even expecting it. Because look, I think the last thing somebody would say about me is that I'm not confident.

Mm-. Yeah.

But look, there were, there have been plenty of times I've been sitting there like, oh, but really? Like, am I really, am I really as great as I think I am? Really?

[LOUIS ]: In the last year?

Oh, yeah.

[LOUIS ]: Really?

Lots of moments like that where I'm just like, well, if I was so good, maybe I could just turn around and get another C-suite job somewhere. Show them. But who am I showing? Who am I proving it to? And do they really matter? You know, do they really, really matter? And so I felt like that was my ego working on me versus like what is actually good for me in my life at this moment in time as I am evolving as a human, evolving as a mom, evolving as a partner, evolving as a friend, as a daughter, as a sister, even as a leader. You know, like there's big evolution happening in my life. and I had to realize that some of that motivation was based on ego and not based on what I actually need in my life.

[LOUIS ]: Which is what?

Which is my own pursuit to get to my destiny. My ego stopping me from doing that. Because it's so easy to slip back into the thing that's comfortable. And some people would say that like, oh, well, a C-suite job is not comfortable. I can guarantee you it's tough as hell. But it is what I know.

[LOUIS ]: It's familiar.

Oh, absolutely. So, yeah, there's some comfort in that. There's comfort in that.

[LOUIS ]: How does someone know when they're being led by their ego versus a more meaningful mission? That is what their destiny is pulling them to do versus what their ego says, this is gonna make me look really good or prove people wrong.

Well, that's just it. I think it's the why. Why do you want it? and being really honest with the answer.

Yeah.

You know, because, like, look, I had some offers after I left Netflix, people who reached out, and that felt good. You know, I didn't go pursue anybody. I wasn't like, oh, look, I'm available. Here's my resume. You know, people are calling me and saying, like, oh, so I just heard you left. Have you considered X, Y, and Z thing? Come over here.

[LOUIS ]: Entice.

Entice. Entice.

[LOUIS ]: Give me this stock option.

We'll give you this signing bonus and this, and you'll get this.

Yeah.

Oh my God, it's gonna be fabulous, you know? And yeah, I was very tempting. And I was also sick and tired of people saying, well, we know you've got an announcement coming, waiting for you to say what you're gonna do next. I know it's gonna be big. Oh, God, I was tired of that too. And so I had to stop and ask, well, why do you want this, Bose? Why do you want this? Why do you want this job? You know, and being really honest, because you can lie to yourself too a lot, right? It's like, oh yeah, no, I need it because, you know, I haven't worked in this industry before, and I'm gonna learn something new in this job. I know, you know, I've always wanted to work with this person. It'd be great for my resume.

[LOUIS ]: It'd be great for this, yeah, yeah.

I could get this other title, and you know, I'm gonna break this boundary and, oh my God, aren't I such an inspiration? You know, you can lie to yourself and tell yourself like, oh yeah, these are the reasons why. like, oh, man. But then you gotta, at least for me, I had to really unpack that.

Yeah.

And sit and say, no, no, no. For real. Like, you lying, girl.

[LOUIS ]: You know you're lying. Yeah. When you look in the mirror and you actually ask yourself, am I doing.

This for the right reason? Am I doing this for the right reasons? And, no, I don't need another experience like that. Have I had enough?

Yeah.

[LOUIS ]: Six or seven of them is enough at the theater.

I mean, seriously, you know, and, like, Yeah, it's, I would say it's somewhat embarrassing or I felt embarrassed when people would say like, oh, so what are you doing now? And I would say, well, I'm on a break. And they look at me in confusion and be like, why? You know what I mean? Or like feeling like, oh, shoot, I didn't even get invited to that dinner, you know? And knowing that all is because I don't have a title that people can work off of or trade in for some kind of value.

[LOUIS ]: How have you learned to like, Again, by no means are you not as relevant as you were a year ago or something with the title, but with the feeling of, oh, I'm not getting as much maybe as a year ago of calls, although you're still getting lots of opportunities and people are calling you, but just that feeling of not being as relevant or maybe I won't be relevant if I don't do this in the next two to three years, how are you addressing that internally?

Yeah.

[LOUIS ]: Around relevancy or audience or, you know, being in the press as much as you're used to.

Yeah.

[LOUIS ]: Because I know actors deal with this with, like, having this pause season and, well, my audiences are growing. I'm not getting announcements. I'm not doing the red carpets. I'm not doing the things.

That's a really hard one, Louis, because here's the truth of it.

Right.

Which is that I'm a competitor, a natural competitor, an athlete. Yes, always, always been like, and look, I haven't necessarily been competing against other people, although sometimes I have been, but also competing against myself, you know, because I set those bars and I'm just like, okay, I'm gonna go do this now, you know what I mean? And then winning at that and feeling like, yeah, I did that. Yeah, I crushed it, you know?

And.

I have to some degree felt that way about this transition too, if I'm being totally honest about it, which is like, okay, yeah, I can step away from corporate life and crush something else. I'm gonna go do this. You know, being an author is something new. And it's like, I'm gonna win at that. But then I had, I would call it a moment of panic, probably over the holidays, you know, it's like, this moment is quickly approaching of like, oh, the book's gonna be out. And then what?

[LOUIS ]: What's next?

And then what? What happens? You know what I'm saying?

[LOUIS ]: So they'll have a plan.

Yeah.

Okay, now. Now what do I. What do I question next?

What.

What happens, you know? And am I having a long question? You know, like, there's. There's that. There's that uncertainty. And the way that I'm. sort of managing it, if there's a way to manage it, is that I'm thinking about the phases in my life, you know, and thinking about, like, you know, when you sit and look backwards and you look at the inflection points and you can appreciate them, you know, and say, okay, when this happened, and then, oh, everything changed. Right. And I am trying to be mindful of the fact that I'm in one right now.

[LOUIS ]: Right now.

This very moment is one. And so- and when you look back.

[LOUIS ]: 10 years ago, so with what you went through, there was a lot of lessons and blessings and opportunities that came from the pain, the trauma, the tragedy, the suffering.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

[LOUIS ]: That you wouldn't be where you're at without 10 years ago, these things happening.

At all. At all. And so in those moments, and truly this is what happened, when I got panicked and I was like, cool girl, then what do you do? You know, the book comes out, then what? You know, and I'm just like, wow, but like, think of what will happen 10 years from now when I look back at this moment and think like, oh, you know what happened after that? You know, so just continuing to be open and being intentional about that. So the urgency in my life now isn't like, you know, how can I like crush this next opportunity and just like make this pivot be the best pivot ever? And, you know, people are going to be so inspired by the fact that I moved and did this and did that. I was so brave. It's like, no, my urgency isn't actually just being present, you know, in this very moment in time and feeling like, wow, like there's so much to be thankful for, for the opportunity to change.

[LOUIS ]: Yeah.

You know, for the opportunity to do something new. Become somebody else.

[LOUIS ]: Absolutely.

Find a different title.

[LOUIS ]: I think it's really cool that you're in this season, actually, and I and you're talking about the phases of life. I like to think about it as seasons. And as an athlete, you know that there's always an off-season. A time of reflection. Do I want to go play the sport again next season? Do I want to put in the training for this same sport? Do I have a different sport I want to play? Do I have a different thing I want to take on in my life? And I think sometimes driven individuals don't take time for an off season to reflect. And it's scary to sit and listen and recover. And after a decade, you know, well, more than a decade of your career, but a decade of since that happening, it sounds like this is the perfect time to take a season and reflect.

Yeah.

[LOUIS ]: That might be two weeks, it might be two years, two months, it might be any type of time.

Yeah.

[LOUIS ]: And I really acknowledge you for being in it. you know, because I know how it can feel uncomfortable.

Yeah.

[LOUIS ]: But also being open to it and speaking about it as opposed to letting it consume you saying, yeah, I've got it all figured out, but saying, I'm in a season of recovery and listening to my voice of where I'm supposed to be called to next. And I think that's really cool because a lot of people, I think, struggle with that. And, and hearing you say it gives permission for others to feel like they're not alone in this place.

Oh, yeah. No, no. 'Cause we all struggle with that. We just don't wanna admit it, like you said, you know? But I also am working from a place of trust of myself, you know, and trust in my destiny actually.

[LOUIS ]: Yes.

You know, having the faith that like, look, I've been in some, you know, some really, really, really, really terrible places and I was able to move in it, you know? And so it's like, even if I don't know what's coming, I have a lot of trust that it's gonna be all right.

[LOUIS ]: Because you've gotten through a bunch of stuff before.

I've gone through a bunch of it.

Yeah. Yeah.

And so there's something in that too, where when I do feel afraid of like what happens next or, man, people have so many expectations of me. You know, they only expect great things. Nobody expects failure from me.

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[LOUIS ]: Should it stay or should it go?

What if I mess it up? What if I have to pay taxes now?

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And what am I going to do if I can't meet those expectations? You know, I just, I sit and think about that. I'm like, look, I've been in some low points. This is not a low point.

[LOUIS ]: Low point.

This is not a low point. It's maybe an off season.

Right.

[LOUIS ]: Your life is beautiful though.

Man.

Yeah. Yeah.

[LOUIS ]: Living your best life. You're healthy.

I'm healthy. I'm happy. I've got a great kid. Got great friends. My family's awesome. Some of them get on my nerves. But generally speaking, they're awesome.

Yeah.

You know, it's like this is, this is an off season. I like what you just said. You know, this is an off season, but it's not a low point by any means.

Right.

And so I feel pretty all right with sitting and being like, okay, God, speak to me. Tell me what's next. What do I do? I just keep sitting here, okay. I just keep sitting and waiting to see what happens.

[LOUIS ]: What would you like to experience as you move forward into the next thing? Again, it could be two years, 10 years, I don't know. But whenever you move into the next thing, what does the feelings that you'd like to have, whether it's a career, a business, a nonprofit, supporting someone else, doing it yourself. Like no matter what decision you make, what would you like to experience and feel in the decision?

Oh, that's a really complicated one, because there's a lot of things I want to feel, you know? Some of them are similar to past feelings. I want to feel I want to feel accomplished.

Yes.

You know, like I'm doing something, you know, like I'm moving forward in myself, too. I want to feel like I'm contributing to society in some capacity. You know, I think the past. Well, gosh, yeah, all of my career, but especially in the last 10 years, I've had a lot of firsts, you know, being Black, being a woman in spaces, and I have felt really purpose driven. by that to open doors that are really, really heavy.

[LOUIS ]: Yes.

And so I want to continue to feel that, you know, and feel like I have a purpose in that and in a way that will allow for somebody else to come behind me.

[LOUIS ]: Yeah.

You know, and do the things. And I so in that way, I want to serve my community that way, you know, and community, not just me and just black women, but anybody who feels othered. you know, people who feel like, oh, man, they haven't been given a fair shot, you know, because of fill in the blank description identity, you know, and that, like, oh, can they look over here and say, oh, but she did, you know? So maybe I can. Like that. That feeling is, is so wonderful. And so I want, I want that. I want to continue to do that. I want to continue to feel that. And I feel like there are lots of experiences that are outside of what I've already done that can still accomplish that.

Yeah.

[LOUIS ]: What do you feel like will get in your way of making that happen?

Not a goddamn soul. Nah, nothing. Nothing. I don't see anything that will stop me.

[LOUIS ]: Here you go. Did your ego get in the way or no?

No.

[LOUIS ]: You got a handle on it.

Yeah. I feel like my ego only makes me want to do things that are comfortable or that, like, are in the past. You know, so if there's any check, it will be that. But I'm aware of it. It's so much better to see the boogeyman, shine a light on it, and be like, I see you. Then running scared from it. I know my ego's there. I'm looking at it. And every time I pop his head up, I'm like, I see you. Don't think I don't see you. I see you right there. It makes it much easier to face and go forward, you know what I mean? I feel like there are many things that could try to get in my way, but it's nothing that I haven't already seen. You know what I'm saying? And if there is something that comes up that I haven't seen before, again, I have faith in myself. There's so many things that came up that were surprises that I overcame. So why would I be afraid of the next thing that comes up? And there's so many of us who do that. God, in everyday life, And so sometimes I look around and like, especially when I'm like, you know, talking to a friend who's just like, oh girl, I can't do that because of, of, of, of, and it's just like, but why? Like, why don't you believe you can do it? You did that thing and that thing and that thing. And again, it doesn't have to be like the world changing thing that got headlines, but like your everyday accomplishments. The fact that your ass got up today and did this thing. simply went into that workplace that you feel like demeans you. And you still had a smile on your face.

Right.

Like what an accomplishment that is, you know, or anything that you did. So it's like, why then do you not feel like you have the power to be able to overcome the things, even if they're unknown to you? Yeah, that's how I feel.

[LOUIS ]: I'm so excited for you, Boz. The Urgent Life, my story, of Love, loss and survival. I want everyone to go get a few copies right now, get them for your friends. If you know someone you think is in a season of uncertainty, of still recovering from grief or loss in the last few years, there's some amazing lessons, stories and wisdom in this book. So make sure you guys check it out. And if you're in a season of recovery or a post season, this is the perfect book to read. while you're filling up your health cup and opening other cups. So make sure you guys check this out. How can we best serve and support you with this book? Where can we get it and how can we find and follow you online?

Well, I am still online as @BassBose on all platforms. I'm excited about the journey and so I'd love some more affirmation and support and all the good things. you know, that can come my way, friends and strangers alike. You know, I love the support. So that's the best way, I think, to help me fill my cup.

[LOUIS ]: So make sure you guys, you know, tag Bose on Instagram or Twitter or wherever and let her know what you enjoyed most from the conversation. What resonated with you, what clicked with you, and message her over there and connect with her on this. And if you get a copy of the book, make sure to tag her as well. when you're reading it and let her know what you learned from this book. I'm excited for you, Bose.

Thank you.

[LOUIS ]: I'm kind of like, I'm really excited for you because when I look back at my off seasons, they're the best times. Even though they were like some of the scariest and unsure of like what's my next identity gonna be and who am I gonna step into. But as I reflect back and have hindsight on those moments, they were like, beautiful times of what I discovered about myself. And I know you're already gonna have hindsight now, you know, you're gonna be, you can see 10 years out and knowing this is like everything you needed for the next decade.

Yeah.

[LOUIS ]: So I'm excited for you for this season. And I just think it's beautiful. It's beautiful that you're embracing it.

Yes.

[LOUIS ]: You are, you are creating space to then create urgency again for the thing that you're called to do. which I'm excited about.

Look, you better speak that affirmation. Come on, let's go. Let's go.

[LOUIS ]: I want to ask you two final questions that I asked you before the last time you came on, which I think was like four years ago or something. I think it was a while ago. And I think you might have a different perspective from where you were then. So before I ask those questions, I want to acknowledge you again for the space you're in and having the courage to be in the space and be comfortable in this space. I as driven individuals, it's hard to take a step back sometimes and reflect and not take action on the next big thing. So I really acknowledge you for being comfortable in a space of not being familiar in this space. It's a beautiful thing. I acknowledge you for sharing your story about love, loss, tragedy, trauma, healing, I think it's really hard to do sometimes, especially when you're used to being a winner, successful and building. So I really acknowledge you for that. And this is a question I asked you last time, I believe, and I asked everyone at the end, it's a hypothetical scenario. So imagine you live as long as you want to live, but it's your last day. And you create and accomplish everything you can think of. See your daughter grow up and you live your life. and you have love and all the things you want to do, they happen. But for whatever reason, everything you've ever created has to go with you. This conversation goes. This book, gone. Everything you've ever said on social media, gone. But you have three lessons you get to share with the world. And this is all we would have to remember your information by. I call it the three truths. What would be those three truths for you?

Oh, gosh. First of all, what a wonderfully visceral like picture. I think first, I mean, yeah, based on even like, you know, the way I'm living, that people would see my life as urgent and see the truth in that, you know, that it wasn't done for the clicks or the praise or anything that I was living urgently because that's what I was called to do.

Yeah.

You know?

Yeah.

I would hope that the other truth would be that I am exactly who I am. You know, never pretending to be anything different. That my flaws were honest, they were known, and that I was still happy in it, that I'm just being. And I would hope maybe this goes against the rules that you set out. I would hope that the legacy of my daughter, her children, natural or not, you know, and therefore Peters would be happy and satisfied in their life.

[LOUIS ]: That's beautiful. Final question, what's your definition of greatness?

Definition of greatness. You're right, this is the hard one. Such a tough, tough question, because it has changed, I think. you know, my definition of greatness has changed so much in the last 10 years and more so in the last year. That now, today as I sit here, I feel like greatness to me feels like I can get up every day and look at myself and feel totally satisfied. If I can do that, every day. What a great life to have lived. Not being the most successful, not being the richest, not being the most praised or lauded, maybe not even being the greatest loved. But being satisfied.

Yeah.

That's great.

[LOUIS ]: Thanks so much. Appreciate you.

I hope today's episode inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a rundown of today's show with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me as well as ad-free listening experience, make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel on Apple Podcast. If you enjoyed this, please share it with a friend over on social media or text a friend. Leave us a review over on Apple Podcast and let me know what you learned over on our social media channels at Lewis Howes. I really love hearing the feedback from you and it helps us continue to.

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I'm Katie Nolan and I have a new podcast called Casuals. It's a podcast for people who like sports, a normal amount. Casuals is a twice a week hang with me and my friends from across comedy, sports and entertainment where we talk about all the funny, weird, interesting stuff happening in and around the world of sports. so whether you're a die-hard fan or just vaguely sports-curious, Casuals is the podcast for you. You can find Casuals on the SiriusXM app, Pandora, or wherever you get your podcasts. And don't forget to follow the show.

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