Tamera Mowry On Dealing with Rejection, Reinventing Herself & The Impacts of Fame EP 1189

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Take your business further at t-mobile.com now. This is episode number 1189 with Tamara Maury Housley. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. Welcome back, my friend. Today's guest is Tamara Maury Housley, and she is an Emmy award-winning host, an incredible actress, producer and entrepreneur who has captivated audiences for over 20 years. And Tamara started her career in Hollywood alongside her sister, Tia, on the hit show Sister, Sister, which aired over 100 episodes from 1994 forward to 1999, which is incredible. She also co-hosted the groundbreaking and Emmy-winning talk show the Real for six seasons. She's an entrepreneur with her own coffee house and coffee line called a barn house Napa Brews. And most recently, she's one of the hosts on the HGTV show table Wars. And in this episode, Tamara talks about how she dealt with her identity after the end of her first big hit TV show and what that was like trying to get more gigs and try to be an actor in that world, how to deal with self self-doubt and find inner peace along the journey. We dive in on that. She talks about how to be successful as a parent while also pursuing your dreams and goals. What Tamara wishes she could share with her 10 year old self before she really got into the industry and some emotional moments towards the end as well. So get ready for an inspiring time with Tamara. I'm so excited about this. And if you're inspired at any moment, make sure to share this with someone that you think needs to hear this message. And if this is your first time here, please click the Subscribe button right now over on Apple podcast or Spotify. You can subscribe to us over on YouTube. We have almost 2 million subscribers over on YouTube as well. So anywhere you like to consume your information, go check us out and subscribe. And I want to give a shout out to our fan of the week. And this is from sauce and sauce said a variety of guests and topics touched by these discussions is truly mind-blowing and serves to broaden our horizons, whether we agree or not. And I listen to a lot of podcasts, but never have I heard so many different guests genuinely say, wow, that's a great question. De Lewis's interrogations. I truly and acknowledge you for it. So big thank you to Sauce for that review over on Apple Podcast and for being the fan of the week. And yes, I do like to ask those deep and personal and intimate questions because that's where the magic is. That's where the juice is in these interviews. And we definitely go there today with Tamara. So without further ado, in just a moment, I bring you the one and only Tamara Mori. Welcome back, everyone, to the School of Greatness. Very excited about our guest, Tamara Maurie in the house. Good to see you.

Thanks. A high five, yes.

High five, connection, intimacy, vulnerability, all of it. I love it.

I love that.

For anyone watching or listening, if you grew up in the 80s or 90s like myself, we remember you from the show Sister Sister, which was a huge hit. Massive hit. You still probably get recognized from that show.

I do.

More than anything else or is that was other things starting to get recognized from Where they're like, oh, I just love you from Instagram or I love you from this thing.

From the real.

The real, yeah.

So the talk show that I did, they recognized me a lot from that. Oh, and Twitches. Twitches was on the Disney Channel. I played a twin witch. So, I'm a twin. Twitches, that's cool. Yeah, it was amazing. I did two for the Disney Channel, and it's when movies like did like amazing, 21 million people watched that.

Wow.

In three days. That's crazy. 21 million.

That's a lot of people.

A lot of people.

That's amazing.

I know.

So you kind of grew up pre-social media where you were famous, well known on TV for many years. Yes. And you were young. You were like 10, early 20s into that show. Yes. What was that like being I guess famous if you want to call it that pre-social media days. And how did you learn to stay confident, not get insecure, or let things get to your head at such an early age while achieving that much and being famous on the scene?

I know. I would have to say my upbringing, my environment, my mom, my dad, my grandmother, my aunts, my uncles, They were all very proud of what I achieved at such a young age, but it didn't define me in their eyes.

What defined you?

Yes, character. Who I was as a person then and who I was becoming. And I feel like that is how I survived. And my parents taught me at a very young age, This is amazing, but it's not going to last.

Really?

Mm-.

So like okay one season, maybe two, maybe three. Did they go for like five or seven seasons?

It went for six.

Six seasons, something crazy.

Yes, and I remember being upset at my mother. We were at the table read, and I was just, you know, so excited, and I was like, well dang, like rain on my parade.

When did she say that? Was that season one or season two?

Before we even started, she wanted to set us up for success. And in that moment, I didn't know what she was doing, but as we were, you know, shooting, I learned that. I learned to be grateful for every single moment so that when it did end, I was like, okay, it's time to move on. Let's do, you know, something else. And I was prepared. for that transition. And it's because of what she said in the beginning that I didn't like, but she was just, you know, she was very real. And that's the thing about our mom still to this day. If you wanted the truth, you ask her. If you didn't want to hear the truth, don't. 'Cause you were gonna get it either way.

Now, I've interviewed different actors who said that you know, some of them, I won't say their names, but they had some big shows, right? They were on for three, four, five, seven seasons or whatever for big shows. And then for years, they were not able to get anything because they were kind of typecast. And, you know, how did you, especially being even more kind of pigeonholed as a twin actor, which is very rare, it's a very niche role, it was successful. How were you able to reinvent or continue building your career beyond that original huge show. And did things keep happening right away, or did it take some years where you're like-- Took some years. We're not getting any phone calls.

Exactly. So, I was prepared for the transition of becoming, as Tim Reid would say, a civilian.

Really?

I was ready for that. What I wasn't prepared for was the silence of phone calls. that happened after that.

What do you mean? Like you calling people and no one picking up or you're not getting calls?

Not getting calls. Yeah. Or going out for auditions and people just seeing this young comedic girl when you are actually a woman. I was 21 when I ended that show.

Wow.

But I mean, I do have the gift of a young face. I've been told. Thank God for my genes.

Yes.

But at the same time, It took casting directors, I think a while to actually see that I wasn't just this young girl that did slapstick comedy. That I could actually, I can remember going on an audition. I wanted to do a drama. And the casting director looking at me saying, you need to just stick to comedy.

--Really?

--Yeah.

She says --After your audition?

--After my audition and You think success of Sister Sister. I won a Kids Choice Award, not once, but like three times.

Yeah, it's a big deal.

The Golden Blimp.

Right, that's a big deal.

You know, NAACP Image Awards, but what I learned in Hollywood, it's like, I'm just gonna be honest, they really don't care. You have to, you know, constantly bring it and constantly grow, and in that moment, I could have two things could have happened. I could have believed her or I could have used it as fuel. And that is what I did. So I took acting classes.

--Really?

--Yes.

--After five seven years of being acting consistently on this massive show, you went back and took classes.

--And guess what? I'm still taking acting classes.

--Wow that's great.

--I always want to learn. And I had to learn the art of auditioning. And I didn't really, because I was working for six, seven years. I forgot how to audition. So, I pretty much had to start all over. I didn't get a series. I was 21 when I ended Sister, Sister. I didn't get a series until I was 25. 26. So, it was four years.

45 years is a long wait for someone who's been working consistently.

Yeah, and there were moments of doubt. There were moments of, okay, I thought I was just gonna quit. I went to school, I went to college. That's something I always wanted to do.

Went to Pepperdine, right?

Pepperdine University. I was feeling, I was literally, my country accent came out feeling. I was, well, signing like filling out a questionnaire to become a private school kindergarten teacher. 'Cause I literally thought I was never gonna work again.

Shut up.

I swear.

Wow.

The moment I filled that out, I got a call. And it was an audition for Strong Medicine. I said these three words before the audition 'cause I was like, I remember that last lady what she said, I remember the room, I remember how I was sitting, I remember it. I said, Let's do this. Right before I started my audition, do you know they added not only did I book that show, play Dr. Kayla Thornton, they added it into the show.

They added the character.

Dr. Kayla Thornton, she says, Let's do this.

Mmm, that's cool.

So, it was, I look back at that and the lesson that that taught me was you shouldn't let people define who you are, even if they might be right in their own opinion, use that as fuel. And I wanted to make sure that I was doing everything that I could possibly do to progress.

Yeah.

I wasn't prideful in the sense where I was like, I don't know what the hell she's talking about. I knew that I had never done, you know, like, a true drama. So I was like, she might be right in the sense of I. I maybe need a little work there. But she was not right in defining my future. I was not gonna let someone who didn't know me define my future for me.

Amen.

Yeah.

So when did you start, what was the first season? How old were you?

I was 14, and it didn't air until we were 15, 16.

So 14 to 21, you were working. 14 to 21 on the show. So how in those four years afterwards, so you were going to school afterwards, You weren't booking anything. People said, ah, stick to this other type of comedy. You can't do this. How did you overcome the self-doubt? Or were you not doubting yourself?

Oh, major. I went into depression. Really?

Yes.

Yes. And I was depressed because for so long, I knew exactly where I was going, what I was doing, and then there was An immediate halt. And I was like, what now? Like, what am I gonna do? I had this conversation with myself where I was like, I achieved so much so young. I have so much life to live. I guess this is it.

Wow.

I guess I just achieved it.

You're at the mountaintop early. I've always felt like this Sense of concern for Olympians in their teens, especially gold medal winners when they're like 16, gymnasts or something. Because you can never recreate the feeling of billions of people watching you winning a gold medal. And then all the press and the success that comes with it, probably a year or two later it's like, okay, who am I now? How do I recreate a meaningful life.

So this is what I've learned. Yes. You have, I mean, success means different things to different people. That was one aspect of my life that was successful. Success to me, as I got older, was defined differently. And success for me now means happiness, no matter what. No matter what's happening in my life, you know, life is a huge-- it's a big-- I say it's like big journey.

Mm-.

You know? And you're gonna have different pockets of these successful moments, if you wanna, you know, define them that way. You doing the things that you love to do, but it doesn't necessarily mean if I achieve that, that didn't mean that was the end of it. It just meant that there was gonna be something else that came along. But I had to go through all those lessons to achieve my next whatever successful moment. But I didn't want, here's another thing that I just realized as I'm talking to you, you don't want those moments of success in your life to define your success as a whole because it's not gonna happen all the time.

It's not who you are as a whole.

No, it's not. I did shows later that only lasted for a season. But it was still successful to me because it was called Roommates on ABC Family. It was the first comedy that I did after Sister, Sister. And it took years to land another one. But to answer your question before, I was depressed. And, you know, I think the hardest part for me was to acknowledge that this person who made a lot of money at a young age, who achieved a lot at a young age, can say they were depressed. And in a way, I felt weak. But you're actually, here I am a psych major. But in that moment, I realized the strength was actually owning up that I needed help in this area. So I started seeing a psychologist. And I worked with a psychologist.

You have a psychology degree from Pepperdine.

Yeah. But I realized the root of it was I have an issue with change. That's very normal.

Right. It's hard to change.

Because I would let those moments define my happiness, but it's inevitable things are going to change. So if you base your happiness on change, change is always happening. Well, yes, change, you're gonna be like this. I'm happy, I'm not. Happy, I'm not. That's what I was going, I was on this like crazy emotional rollercoaster.

For someone like you, who's your career is constantly evolving, you know, from acting, the hosting, producing, all these other things you're doing and involved in, and maybe it'll last for five years, maybe it'll last for five months, we don't know. We book it and then they cancel it, right? It's like, I'm sure you've been through all this. I have been through all this. How do you keep a grounded inner peace through all the ups and downs of potential change?

My faith.

Yeah.

Knowing that I'm a true believer, in God and believing that things happen for me, not to me. So I always like to find the lesson in everything, you know? And I've learned that even within the struggles, God is there. Whereas before I was, I'm struggling. What did I do wrong? What did. Whereas. with life comes wisdom, I've learned that God is in that struggle because we need to learn something here. What I also learned, if you don't learn...

It's gonna keep repeating. I know that. I can say that to myself. Well, I mean, I can say that for like every relationship I've been in, you know, in my past until I started to learn those lessons the hard way.

Yeah.

And they keep coming to me, okay, I gotta listen this time, you know? What would you say is the biggest adversity you've faced professionally then, since day one of Sister Sisterhood now? Of all those professional experiences, what's been the biggest lesson and the hardest thing to overcome?

Rejection.

How many times have you been rejected?

I lost count.

Hundreds, thousands.

What's that? What's that TikTok? More, more, probably more. More I literally lost count think of it. I've been in the business ever since I was 11.

Wow youw're what 25 now, right?

Yeah, thanks 43 yeah, but I mean more than 100 at least and our business is based on this where we're gonna get deep our business is based on Rejection Being liked mm-. I And people telling you how to do things. Think about it. When you audition, probably one out of 20 auditions, like dating, you're gonna find, you're gonna nail it. You're gonna get it. You're gonna get that part. Once you nail it, the director is telling you what you need to do better.

So you got the gig, but now change this, change this, change this.

But more. After that.

What?

Once you've done your project, you have critics.

Of rejection in the world. Yeah, this is bad. You look here weird and this is off.

And ratings.

Wow.

Your show is either successful or bombs.

Wow.

So I had to learn, and I'm still learning, I am good enough. Because at 11, this is what you're constantly going through. And subconsciously, like, I just realized this, like, two days ago.

Wow.

Like, I was like, why do I feel this way? Why do I feel this way?

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You can practice.

You can practice.

You can work.

You can work. Whereas an actress, you take your acting class, you study that script like I don't know what, you give it your all, and then they say, It's not good enough. Or, no thank you.

Oh, man.

Next. So, what I'm learning in life is you do your best and that's all you can control. And there's gonna be people out there that just don't like you. And I mean, I can't help that. If you don't like me, you don't like me. If you don't like my craft, okay. So I had to learn this. Did I like my work? Did I like my work?

If you didn't like it, then what?

It's what I said in the In the beginning, let's fix it. Let's go to some acting classes.

And if you did like it... Screw you!

I guess I am not your cup of tea. Or this movie was not your cup of tea. And then you have to ask yourself, were there films that you didn't like? Okay, it just wasn't your cup of tea.

It goes back to, you know, everything is happening for you, not to you. It wouldn't have been a good six to 12 months journey with the team or the producer or the director anyways. You know, even if you wanted it, your faith going back to the faith, maybe it's protecting you from something or setting you up for something greater next year.

Yes. And what my sister said recently that became viral is that we auditioned for Fresh Prince of Bel-Air. We did.

We did. Yeah.

Yep. And we did not obviously get it.

You're right.

But, but we got sister sister.

That's huge.

So boom. You see what I'm saying?

So what would your roles have been for Fresh Prince?

Tatiana Ali's character, Lorraine. I can't remember her, forgot the character's name, but yeah. We would have been the girl in.

Oh you would have been splitting the role.

One of us would have gotten it. Only one of us. Yeah. And we've gone through that too. Here's another thing we can talk about. We, my sister and I are twins. We look alike. We talk alike, we used to dress alike, and we used to go out for the same roles.

Really?

Mm-.

Who would book the role more?

It would depend. Tia was the Barbie girl, after Sister, Sister, I immediately, well it was four years, I got, not immediately, but I got the show Strong Medicine, but then it was her turn, she got the game. So we had to learn, when you're going out for the same role, And one gets it, 'cause I auditioned for the game. And then once I saw the show, I was like, that role is Tia all day, every day. That was great. It helped elevate her career. And in doing so, we would help each other. So she's elevated, then like, oh, wonder what Tamera's doing? If Tia could do that, let's see what Tamera-- and this is what we've done. And now we are our own person. We have our own And you know, we went through this phase where we were like, you need to be like me. No, you need to be like me. And it was when we looked at each other and we were like, no, God made us differently for a reason. We are, you're my yin to my yang. So I was very, in meetings, the personable, you know, twin, extroverted, yeah, yeah. And she was the business side. One. So she would see and hear everything that people were saying, pick up on things, she would stand up for what wasn't right. And so we made this amazing team. Now we have our own families, she's doing her own thing, I'm doing my own thing, and we've learned to celebrate our differences. And it's okay to be different.

Right. There wasn't many twins in TV back then or even now that were, I guess the Olsen twins around the same time, but they were sharing a role, right? They didn't do the role each at the same time. Did you guys ever have a situation where you were sharing a role? Really?

So we played a girl called Denise on Full House. My brother was Teddy, Michelle's best friend. And that is when I met Candace Cameron, which we're Now both on Hallmark and we both have wineries and we're friends now. Candace Cameron Bure. Candace Cameron Bure played DJ. Yes.

What was her maiden name? Berets.

I mean so yeah it's Candace Cameron and her name now is Candace Cameron Bure.

Yeah, yeah. I actually met her. I sat next to her at a... Do you know Val? Yes. From Dancing with the Stars.

Oh yeah.

I sat next to her at his wedding.

Yeah, because she was not dancing with the socks.

So I met her briefly there, but yeah she's sweet.

Very sweet. And so you guys were on that.

Show together with the Olsen twins?

Yep. Wow. And my sister and I babysat the Olsen twins one time. Swear to God. Swear to God.

So, but you were playing one person. That's crazy.

Yeah, so we played a girl named Denise, and it was really interesting because I never thought my sister and I looked alike. Shocking. So I would be like, how are we pulling this off? But yeah, that was the only time we did it, though. We did it once.

Oh, just one episode.

Oh, wait, no. What am I talking about? Tia actually played me in Twitches. I was doing strong medicine, and I couldn't make it. She did not play you. Yeah, in one scene. It's a party scene. That's amazing. Yeah, but our fans knew it. They were like, she had a mask on. Because it was Halloween. They knew it. They were like, that's not Tamara. That's Tia. We didn't say anything for years until like, I wanna say like three years. Yeah, and I was 26 when I shot that.

Oh my gosh.

So years we didn't say anything.

That's true.

But yeah, she played me.

Wow.

She hated it. She was like, I hated it. I hated playing you.

She got paid though.

She did.

She got paid.

I thought she did a great job. Yeah.

So did you guys ever feel like you had a rivalry then, or were you always been supportive?

I feel like there was never rivalry. There was disappointment when we did our reality show, and it's the reason why we left it. Because never before in our life did it become teen Tia, teen Tamara.

Then it was like a competition.

Yeah. And I feel like the producers knew exactly what they were doing in a reality show.

So.

It was like, I remember her just being so upset with how they portrayed her and how I was being portrayed, you know, like I'm the crier, I'm this, I'm that. But yes, I do cry. I'm emotional and it's because I've learned. I'm an empath. And I finally have learned that as well. So the reason why I'm very emotional is because I feel, you know how you have your senses? My sense to feel other people's energy and their vibe is heightened. So if you're not feeling well or we're talking about a serious topic, I feel that to the untainted degree. Or if we're talking about something sad, I feel that and it could be draining. So that explains my emotional side. But now I know where it comes from and I'm okay. I'm okay with it. It doesn't mean I'm weak. I'm sure it's hell not weak. It doesn't mean I'm so happy. No, it's actually a superpower.

Mm-. Because you're connected. Connected.

Yeah. And I'm able to, you know, put myself in someone else's shoes.

Sure. Yeah. What do you feel like has been the. The biggest insecurity you've overcome then since you started in your career?

I'm overcoming it. I haven't overcome, I haven't overcame it yet. It's the I am good enough.

Still. At 43, massive success in your career. You got the marriage, you got kids, you got the family, you got businesses, still overcoming that feeling. Really?

I'll tell you why.

Tell me.

I started when I was 11.

Mm-.

And I've been conditioned that way. for over, think of that, being conditioned for over 30 years. I want to say 30 years. And subconsciously not knowing what's going on even though I'm a psych major. And it's because I had other things going on. But once I turned 40, I was like, it's now, I've been taking care of so many people, it's now time for me to take care of myself. and that's how I learned that I'm an empath. And that's how I learned there were so many elements of myself that I needed to work on. And I've worked through those, and now it's. I'm dealing with the deep rooted one.

Really?

And I've been uprooted. Think of a tree.

Yeah.

That's been planted.

Right.

And sometimes I don't want to think of it because you don't want to tear down trees, but think of that tree that's just been. Rooted, right?

An emotional tree.

An emotional tree, yes. And you just want to dig, it needs to get, it needs to like get out, but if it's deeply rooted, it's hard.

It's clenching on in there, yeah.

It's harder to remove. So that is what I am dealing with. And we were talking about social media. Social media didn't help that, especially doing a talk show.

Because you're getting constantly Negative feedback and.

Critics and I will take that.

The way you looked, what you said, your opinions, your values.

Oh my gosh.

Critiqued.

Critiqued and they knew where to find you. And then let's take it up a notch. Clickbait.

Yes.

So they will take what you said.

Something out of context.

Put it out of context to fit their narrative of who they think you are. And that is what happened. For years on that show. And I will tell you this, being on a talk show and you can take it or leave it, it is not a safe place. It's not.

Being on a talk show.

Being on a talk show. It's not a safe place. And I wish someone would have told me that. Because then I would have been prepared. I was not. I wasn't. I learned. So think of going to battle. Yes, but you don't know you're going to battle.

You think you're going to some fun experience, hey, we're going to play.

And then people come and they start fighting, then you gotta grab, you gotta grab the trash can shield. You know, you've got to do all these things, and that is what I've learned by doing that talk show, that at the end, I was fully armed. And you can literally watch the beginning of the season to the end of the season, you see this strong warrior, and it is, life happens for you, not to you. wasn't supposed to know it was a safe, it wasn't a safe place.

--Really?

--Because I wouldn't be who I am now. Because I probably would have had my girl, I would have, you know, I've learned so much about myself doing that show.

--How many years was that for?

--It was a total of seven seasons if you want to count our kind of pilot, because they aired our pilot.

--So, what did you learn from being on a talk show for that long then about yourself?

--Again, I am working on that I am good enough because Jesus, people can say some really horrible, untruthful things. I learned that it is okay not to be perfect. It is okay to be vulnerable. And it is okay to speak your truth. Just because there are people out there who may not agree with your truth, It doesn't mean there aren't many people who don't.

Right. And how did you not learn to, I guess, or maybe who do? Right, right. And how did you learn not to hold back once you, after the first season of being like, Man, this is a war between maybe on the show and comments off the show. How did you learn to continue to speak your truth and your voice knowing there's gonna be tons of things out there? Or did you feel like you had to guard yourself and not say things sometimes just to be like, okay?

Nope. Because what I found out is I'd rather have people dislike me for who I truly am than who I'm pretending to be. Boom.

I like it.

That's the reality of it.

How do you learn to not let it affect you emotionally when you care deeply about people in general.

I learned-- When you're an empath and.

You'Re like taking all this stuff in.

Boundaries.

Yeah.

One. Two, they are entitled to their opinion.

Mm-.

Here's the big one. An opinion doesn't necessarily mean a fact.

All right.

So you can have a hundred opinions about me. But is it a fact? No. So I had to learn, you know the, is it the, there are the four agreements in life. I forgot how many there are. Yeah, four agreements.

Don't take anything personally.

And I didn't want to personally make an agreement with what that person was saying if it was an opinion. So I had to learn for myself Okay, why is this affecting you so much? One, oh damn, I'm agreeing with what they have to say because it's actually an insecurity of mine.

So it's when you agree to it, that's when it affects you.

Yes.

So how did you learn not to agree with it? Even if it was an insecurity of yours?

How did I learn? Well, don't take anything personal if they don't know me personally.

Right.

That's what I had to learn. And then I had to do a lot of inner work. I had to first recognize, this is an insecurity of mine. Oh, God. Why is it an insecurity? Well, it was a lot of self-reflection. That's why that show, even though it was not a safe place, it has made me who I am today. And it was part of the cards to be a part of my life. But I had to ask myself, one, why does this affect you so much, America? Ooh, you made an agreement with that. Why? Oh, this is an insecurity. Well, we gotta fix that. Why is this an insecurity? Why do you feel this? Then I had to literally be like, okay, is this a fact? Is this a fact about who I am? Even, and this is what I learned from Jay, to Jay Shetty. Your thoughts, most of the time, like your irrational thoughts, do not represent reality. So, it is important for us to recognize the difference. Is this reality? And then if it is a reality, what are you going to do about it? So, my thing is, is yes, let's always find the solution here. So, if I'm insecure about this, say I was insecure about my weight, okay? I just had a baby. I was, you know, People were calling me, not people, very few. Oh, she's lazy, she hasn't snapped back, she hasn't... I was insecure about it because I couldn't do anything about it because I had a back problem. Because I had diastasis recti. So you see how I worked myself out of that. I self-reflecting. Okay, I made an agreement with that statement because I am insecure. But Tamara, why are you insecure about it? Is that a fact? Okay, yeah, I haven't lost as much weight, but the fact is, is because Tamara you're in serious pain. You can't work out like Heather. Yeah, you're healing. So focus on that. And whoever says that, I'm not gonna make an agreement with that. Poof, be gone. And what I've also learned though, The same people that hate you on Monday and Tuesday will love you Thursday and Friday.

That's crazy, right?

Isn't that interesting?

So how do you deal with that?

You just know people are fickle.

Right.

And you don't define who I am. God defines who I am. God defines who I am. Who am I in God's eyes? And then if I have an issue with that, what are you gonna do about it? All right, well let's fix ourselves. You know, like if I have issues, if I have what can I do? Let me go see a psychiatrist. Let me see a psychologist. Let me see a counselor. Let me try to, you know, I'm always thinking about the solution. That's another thing too, when you talk on a talk show, it's talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk. What are we gonna do about it?

Right.

What are we gonna do about it? Actions, yeah. Action. So I literally would be like, okay, but what are we gonna do? You know, that's where, and sometimes people don't want to hear The solution, they just want to hear the complaint. That's more entertaining. That's more fun. And not for all talk shows, but you know, it's like people, human nature.

Did you see, I guess in the last, what is it, 32 years, 33 years you've been in this industry, right? To 11.

I never did the math.

You've been around a lot of successful people. who have come and sustained and grown, people who are big that have gone away in a sense in the industry, you've been around a lot of famous successful thriving people. What do you see as a common insecurity that everyone's had in the last 33 years? Whether they're teen star, adult star, come and go, is it I'm not good enough or is there another insecurity or fear you've seen overall in the industry?

I would say, and I can't speak for everyone.

Sure. Your experience, your observation.

My observation, especially women, and even men, what am I talking about? Because I dated actors in my day. And I would say image.

Really?

Image.

You mean like how they're perceived or they're afraid of how they look. How they look. To themselves or how other people are talking about them.

I don't perceive them. Like you have to look a certain way. About their body image.

Yes.

You always have to look a certain way. If you see a person come out and be like, I'm happy and proud of my curves. This is great. Then the moment they get a hit film, where did all those curves go? Where did all that go? Or women getting older in the industry. You know, so I would say it doesn't matter how big you are. So like the A-Lister, to the D list. It's always that image. Really? It's because we're constantly being seen and you have to make sure you look presentable. You look good or yeah.

If you're not looking good, you may not work.

Yeah, unfortunately.

So how do you, I guess in a sense, if it helps you stay healthy and accountable to being healthy consistently, that's good. But if it's like, obcessive over like I need to do this to like get the gig or you know... You.

Literally have explained how I have changed my perception on how I handled that aspect of the business. I say, well, the positive side is that it is going to keep me healthy. As long as I stay healthy, and I live in Napa by the way. Amazing food, amazing wine. I'm a foodie. I can just eat and enjoy. Eat my heart out, 'cause food is a pleasure to me.

I love it, me too.

But what I've learned is, is as long as I'm staying healthy, that's what matters. I don't want to get to the point where I'm emaciated, I'm not healthy, but there are women in this business.

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They don't eat. They don't. You can see it when you go out to dinner, when you go out, it's just they don't, they don't eat. And I was like, well, hell, give me a break. I'm gonna have the bread, please. Thank you. I'll just have one serving a day when I'm gonna have it. Yeah, that's true.

And what is speaking of image and social media, you know, you were had big shows pre-social media.

Yes.

Then you've grown into, you know, your own big following on social media. How have you learned to not let your image define you on social media and use it for good? In terms of connection and creation and promotion and not like, you know, am I always in the perfect filter, the angles like, how have you?

Subconsciously. And I, as you can tell, I keep it real.

Yeah.

With the change of the algorithm that has happened recently, like what the hell has happened here? I didn't realize that my self value was in those likes.

Wow.

Because at one point, and I'm human. That's what I'm. Because for so long, I was like, yeah, killing it, killing it, killing it, killing it. Woohoo. And then now all of a sudden, I'm like, what the hell happened here? And did you go back to, I'm not good enough? If the. I had a moment.

Yeah. With the engagement, if you're like, okay, I'm getting a million likes on a photo and a video, and now I'm gonna Half a million. It's still a half a million people, but psychologically what was happening?

Yeah. Like I said, subconsciously, I was getting my value there, and I had to have that moment again, being like, Hey, look, I'm not doing this. And you have to mean it. You can't just say it.

You do.

You have to mean it.

Mm-. Mm-.

But you know, What is your purpose for this Instagram, you know, whatever? What is your purpose for this platform? Okay, you answer that. Are you proud of the work that you have put out there? Yes? Does the likes and the views, does it define you? Does it define you, your character? who you are as a person, no. What I had to shake was, does it define your content? Like, you know, are people liking this? Are you wasting your time putting stuff out if people aren't seeing it? But I had to realize that that's what it is. It's not what you're putting out. It's just the way things are seen now. completely different and are you willing to conform to what is hot? What is trending right now? What is, and if you are and it's who you are, get it girl.

And you like it, yeah, it's something you enjoy.

Get it.

Yeah.

But if it's not who you are, are you going to conform to become that just to be seen? That is the question you have to ask yourself.

Yeah, that's interesting. And so is that something you dance with sometimes?

Yes, and that is kind of like, 'cause you have to play the game.

Of course.

It is a game, but I am only willing to play the game authentically.

Yeah, that's good.

And that is how I am dealing with, to answer your question, I can be very loquacious, sorry.

Yeah, try again.

It takes me a while to get to the point, but that is how I am dealing with that. So sometimes, yes. You know, like in business, you've got to mingle. Maybe you don't like to mingle. Maybe you just want to be quiet. But you have to mingle. You have to meet people. So Instagram, social media, things are trending, whatever. So you have to play the game somehow. But make sure you're doing it for all the right reasons, because what's going to happen is you're going to continue to chase. The algorithm is going to continue to change.

Then you're going to change constantly.

Then you're going to change constantly. Then you're gonna do this. Who am I? What am I? What am I doing? Oh my God, they don't like myself. I can't, no. Life is too short to live that way. So I like to step back, look at what's happening, and say, okay, how can I authentically do this? And if it presents itself, it presents itself. If it doesn't, I'll catch the next wave.

There you go. Yeah.

Until it does.

You don't have to be hot every moment. you know, on social media.

Yeah.

That's great.

So as long as I'm doing what I'm as long as I'm being authentically me along the way, that is what matters. Because I can tell you, I've never bought a follower. I have never boosted a personal post. If I have done an ad, you know, they like to do that. Totally fine. But for my personal I have never done that in my entire life. I couldn't sleep at night. Then you have to ask yourself, why are you doing it? You're only doing it to feed your own ego. And you're doing it to validate yourself. That's dangerous. That's dangerous. You don't want to fall into that. You don't. It's easy. Like I said, it caught me. I was like, oh my god, where did all my likes go? Or that one day when Instagram like.

Yeah, you broke down.

And I was like, what the hell? I totally got zero likes. This is it. And then you're like, Whoa, why do I, what? Oh, wait. Yeah. So, yeah, it's, I'm dancing with it.

Dancing with it, I like it. If you could, if you could go back to 10 right before you're gonna get into this journey, you know, of, of a big massive show and then, you know, the career you've had with all the ups and downs, if you could tell the 10-year-old version of you three things to look out for and to be aware of for the next 33 years of your career and life with dating and the business and family and fame, what would you say to that 10-year-old version of you?

I would say make sure you're doing this for all the right reasons. Because you have to understand in this business, no matter how many times they say they love you, they like you, it is business.

They're a product. They will cut you off in a moment.

The gifts stop, the phone calls stop.

Really? Yeah.

Boom. Just like that. So make sure that you stay present and realize you were doing this because you love it. It is your craft and enjoy it. Don't let the rejection, the ratings or the reviews get to you. Keep your eyes on the passion. And I just made that up right now. Keep your eyes on the passion. Realize why, realize the why, why you're doing this.

Why are you doing this right now?

I love to act in the sense.

Of.

I love telling a story. And if you notice all the things that I do, I want the story to impact person in a positive way. I realize what theater, the theatrics, whatever, I realize what it can do to the human soul. You can be having the worst day. You turn on a film, it can make you laugh, it can make you feel, you know, cry, it can make you learn. Can make you feel like you're not alone. If you're going through a divorce, you're going through whatever and you see a film of a woman going through the same thing that you're going through and you see that she persevered and you see a little bit of yourself in her, it can change your life. That is why I do it. And in doing so, I want to make sure that I'm doing the best that I can and that's why I'm always learning. Second thing I would warn myself is to, oh God, realize that, damn, I had to learn this the hard way. And I hate saying the word enemy, but sometimes the people that are closest to you are not for you.

Really?

I've had people try to use me to get in my films. It's called the Opportunist. I've had and I thought we were friends, like friends. Be prepared, not everybody around you is on your team.

Right.

Three is the one that I'm working on now. Don't let the rejection of this business tell you you're not good enough. And I feel like this is something that everyone can relate to because it doesn't matter where you are in life, people need to know that they are good enough. They are good enough. As long as you are trying to be your best, and that's what I'm trying to do each and every day, I'm not perfect, I will never be perfect, nor do I want to be. Ooh. Boring. But yeah, no, you are good enough. And I know I always say, don't let this stuff define who you are. But it's a constant battle.

I've got a few final questions for you. I don't respect your time. I guess you've been married for 10 years, you were saying, 17 years together. What is that like being in a long-term committed relationship while being in the business where it seems like people don't last that long in this industry? How have you been? I guess what's the biggest lesson you've learned about intimacy and long-term committed relationship, marriage, and being a mom? Wow. Pursuing your dreams.

I'm exhausted.

And how do you make it all work? work and you know, how do you navigate the intimate relationship side of things while pursuing dreams and being a mom?

-I realize that when I say yes to something, I'm saying no to something. So, saying yes to a job is saying no to being there those days for my children. And what am I going to do with that? And that's been challenging. I'm gonna say it is challenging. I'm not gonna say it's hard. I mean, I'm not gonna say hard is like challenging means there's always a challenge that we need to work at. Now more than ever, my husband and I were connected. I love him more than I ever have because it's deeper.

That's beautiful. But you're honest with each other, which is the key.

That was the key. And you have to, but this is the thing. It's like some people are like, I don't know if I can be honest with the person. Then, why are you guys together? Like, you need, that is what makes a relationship along. And then we had to be honest. Are you okay with me being away all this time? Yes, I support you, but it would be nice if you can maybe do three or four projects a year or whatever.

Not 10, yeah.

Do you see what I'm saying? So we had those honest conversations. That's beautiful, yeah. Honesty is the key.

That's what'll help you get through it. That's cool.

And with yourself too. We need to be honest with yourself. What do I need?

What do I need? Yeah. Okay, I've got three or four minutes with you left. So I'm gonna bring it to, I wish I could go more because this has been powerful. So I appreciate you opening up like this. Before we get to the final couple questions, you got a show out right now called Table Wars. --Yes, Table Wars. --Tell me what it is and how we can watch it.

--You can watch it on HGTV starting November 14th. I host the show with the amazing Martha Stewart.

--What'S she like?

--She'S a force, let me just tell you. --That's great. --She is elegance, like chic, like in the dictionary, chic Martha Stewart. But to make a long story short, it is a show about tablescaping. Tablescaping is when you basically set up your table for an event. So whether it is a Thanksgiving meal, a Christmas dinner, a wedding, a bridal shower, a birthday party, you always have that table looking gorgeous and beautiful. And we have people from all over the country come in and compete, and they win $50,000. That's a lot.

So, you have different challenges. They have tables, they have like a seminar, you have an hour to go create this thing.

It's amazing what they can do.

They're like throwing stuff together and they're like yeah. It's kind of like cake wars for table.

100% yes.

I like it. It comes out November 14th. How long does a season go for?

We did six episodes.

HGTV.

HGTV. November 14th. Yes, and I love it.

You and Martha are like the hosts.

The judges, like everything. Yeah, it's Chris Hesney, who is her like protege.

Okay, amazing.

He's awesome.

Okay, I'm excited to check this out. Oh, thanks, it's visually stunning.

I'm excited.

People gotta follow you on social media as well, you got great content over there, so we'll have that all linked up. And I recommend leaving in the comments on YouTube the part of this interview that you enjoyed the most for people watching and listening. And also to message her on Instagram. or send her, you know, take a screenshot, post it on Instagram. Let her know you're listening for sure. That's awesome. This is a question I asked everyone at the end called the 3 Truths. So, I'd like you to imagine a hypothetical scenario that many years away from now, it's your last day on earth. And you get to accomplish everything you've ever dreamed of. Everything you want to have happen, it happens. You get to create, you get to make all the good stuff. It all happens. But for whatever reason, you got to take all of your content with with you when you go to the next place. It's your last day, every show, this interview, books, content, movies, it all goes away. So no one has access to your content anymore. But you get to leave behind three things you know to be true from all your lessons in life. And this is all we would have to remember. What would be those three lessons or three truths you would share with the world?

Strive to leave this world better than you found it. Live your authentic life. Don't strive to be like anyone else. And, oh God, the third one. Living authentically yourself is, I read this book, the Alchemist.

Yes.

And what I learned is, is Ultimately, you make your decisions. You make it. You can be inspired, encouraged by other people, but ultimately that is your choice.

Yeah.

Those are the three.

That's beautiful. One final question, Tamara, before I ask it, I want to acknowledge you for being an incredible gift in the world.

Oh my God, don't make me cry.

The way you've shown up consistently as someone in the industry to set an example as a really courageous, authentic woman. Thank you. For 30 plus years of the ups and downs, it's been beautiful. Thank you. The way you show up for your sister and not being in competition, but being in collaboration is beautiful to witness. The way you show up and being authentic in your content from personally on social media, but also on TV and movies. So I really want to acknowledge you for just being a beautiful gift.

Thank you.

And bringing joy to so many people.

Oh, look at this. There goes the emotional side of me.

I appreciate it. It's all good.

Coming out. Thank you. I appreciate it.

I know how hard you work. And I know how much you show up for yourself and for so many people.

Thank you.

And it doesn't go unnoticed.

Thank you so much.

That is so sweet.

Sweet.

Of course. Thank you.

Great.

I have one final question.

What? Now my teary hands, like, you always say you have a final question, but this is not your final question.

This is it, I promise. This is it. It's what's your definition of greatness?

Definition of greatness is kind of like what you just said. Recognizing the gift that you have, because I believe each and every person in this life has been gifted with something, realize what your purpose is and share it with the world. Don't hold on to it. Share it. Yeah. So, I appreciate you. Thank you very much.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much for listening. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's show with all the important links. And also make sure to share this with a friend and subscribe over on Apple podcast as well. I really love hearing feedback from you guys, so share a review over on Apple and let me know what part of this episode resonated with you the most. And if no one's told you lately, I want to remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.

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