The #1 Dating Mistake That’s Keeping You Single | Nick Viall

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I felt that when I was younger I'm not going to be a complete person until I find my partner. People will say that too. It's like, oh, I'm looking for someone to make me a better person. I hope everyone gets to find someone. Like I feel like I found someone that helps you become your best version of yourself. But no one's going to make you a better person.

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Welcome back everyone in School of Greatness. Very excited about our guests. We have the inspiring Nick Vow in the house. My man. Good to see you.

Good to see you, man.

Great seeing you. Appreciate you having me, of course, man. We just did a powerful Ask Nick conversation on your podcast.

Yeah.

That was really deep and meaningful and interesting and I want people to check that out because we really went there and gave people some practical advice on what two human beings who are now engaged but who have had a lot of different struggles in previous relationships and the lessons we've learned.

Absolutely.

You've been known for a lot of the things you've done in reality tv, right? Bachelorette, Bachelor. Now your podcast is a top podcast, really sharing like modern dating wisdom from the mistakes you've made and the lessons you've learned and all this different stuff. If you could go back to, you know, 20 year old you when you were a star track athlete in college and high school and things like that, and you could give him three pieces of advice. That's a great question on how to really become a great man and to attract a great partner for yourself. What would you say to him with that advice?

It's a great question. I'd sit him down probably, and first and foremost I would remind him that sometimes feeling in love doesn't always mean that you are in love and that sometimes feelings can be misleading. Like you can feel that spark or seduction and things like that and that you're pining over someone and that intensity of that excitement all can be misconstrued into love and things like that. I'd also remind him that there, there's no benefit to being a love martyr.

What do you mean by that?

It's actually something I was just doing a another friend's podcast and it kind of came up because, you know, my background, I grew up, I had a great childhood, you know, loving parents, some family of. I have 10 brothers and sisters. I'm the second oldest of 11 kids, wow. Parents are still married today. They were a great example of love. We grew up Catholic, and so there's a little bit. I don't know how familiar are with Catholicism, but there's a little kind of martyr in the whole thing. And so I think that kind of passed down to us kids. But, you know, I. What I learned from my parents was that love is special. But it's also, you know, relationships can be really hard. And, you know, then you grow up watching rom coms and TV shows, Disney and. Yeah. And movies like the Notebook who have all these high stakes and quite frankly, a lot of toxicity in relationships. But those types of shows teach you that none of it really matters as long as you end up together. And in reality, that's not really the case. But as a young man, I kind of took those lessons and thought to myself, well, love is hard. You know, it's special and it's hard. So you just have to fight through, you know, all these challenges. And yes, every relationship has its challenges and you, you know, you have to work through stuff. But I kind of turned into a bit of a love martyr. You know, I got to the point where it didn't really even matter if I liked them. You know, it's like I didn't ask myself questions like, do I enjoy their company? Do they enjoy mine? Are we even compatible? It was more like, well, I'll fight for the relationship so much that the more I fought for it, the more special I thought that relationship was and what that meant.

Even if they weren't the right match.

Even if it wasn't the right match. I mean, there were, you know, my first girlfriend, God bless her, I met her when I was 18. We broke up so many times. Usually it was her breaking up with me, and. And every time she broke up with me, it was like I had to fight for the relationship because, you know, again, love is special. And whether it was my parents telling me that love is special, but you have to work hard on things, you know, I had the right intentions, so to speak, but, like, it was a bit misguided. And I think through that I spent a lot of energy on people who, quite frankly, it just wasn't the right fit. But I kind of misconstrued my intentions, so to speak, and, you know, kind of became that love martyr. And I think a lot of people are, you know, sometimes where you. You kind of get stuck in these relationships and you think about things like, well, I can't break up now. We've been dating for so long. As if, like, so invested, right?

Yeah.

You know, so invested. And there would be no value to these past three years of our relationship if we end the relationship. So I have to keep fighting. And if I fight, I will somehow be rewarded and my love will be special because the worse it is, the harder I have to fight. And if the harder I fight, the more special it is. And it's such a misconstrued, toxic way to look at relationships, but I very much did. So I would. I would tell him not to be a love martyr.

Okay. And the third things, I would tell.

Him to be careful about listening to your ego over your heart, you know, And I think that's something I did a lot of. And I confused validation with love, you know, And I think we do that a lot. So when our ego takes over. And I think, you know, sometimes I talk a lot about ego on my show, almost to the point where I feel like it gets like a bad rep in a way, but it's not really true. You know, I don't know if you're like, a comic book fan at all, but I kind of equate ego to, like, a superpower.

Okay.

A superpower that, like, if you. An X Men. Are you familiar with, like, the Phoenix character? Right? She's so powerful that she can't control her own power to the point where it's kills people, it harms up. Right. And that's kind of like your ego. Your ego can be a superpower. Your ego is what gives you the confidence to, like, act as if, you know, you had to have some kind of ego to do what you've done, right? To say, I could do this, why not me? You know, that takes a little bit of ego and that confidence and that. That allows you to step up the plate to, you know, face impossible challenges. But if you can't control that ego, if you can't, you know, be mindful of, you know, when it creeps up, it can really lead you down dark paths. You know, your ego will tell you that you have to change the wrong thing, chase the wrong thing. Because again, your ego is like saying, well, you're not good enough. That you know, that person who won't give you respect, who doesn't make you a priority, who treats you with disrespect, well, if you can get them to change their behavior for you, even though they've done all this with other. All these other people, you'll be special. Wow. And chasing that feeling of being special because my ego thought, well, you know, because I Was a, you know, I played sports, I was a competitive guy. You know, that challenge, you know, that fix of the recognition of, oh, you, you did this. I can't believe you did this. You got that, you know, that boy or whatever to like to settle for you, right? Hey, no one else could do that, but you got to do that, and that must make you special. And so that chasing the validation and not being mindful of when your ego was telling you to chase the wrong thing got me into a lot of trouble. And I spent a lot of time not accepting relationships that weren't really healthy for me. And I wasted a lot of my time following my ego and not my heart, man.

Yeah, I think we mentioned that we both kind of had like five or six kind of longer term committed relationships since we were like 16 or 18.

So, yeah, it was great getting to know you on the Vileflowers when you guest on the Ask Nick episodes because, yeah, a lot of parallels between our, you know, we face a lot, you know, we learn through our challenges and things like that. So I got a lot of things wrong.

Yeah, me too, man. But hopefully we're able to transform that into something better. Now, you mentioned this concept of validation. What is the difference between validation and love?

Well, I feel like love is more about acceptance of. Well, of yourself and the people you do love. I mean, you know, to truly love someone is accepting who they are both for their strengths and their weaknesses. And it's when you really love their weaknesses, you know, you don't necessarily have to accept their weaknesses all the time. You can always challenge the people you love to become a better person. But at the end of the day, you got to go to a point where you accept them for everything that they are. And, you know, not to sound cheesy or cliche, but that starts with yourself. You know, validation is almost the op. It's. Quite honestly, it seems like the literal opposite when I think about it. It's like, it's that feeling of. Of. Of needing outside praise, you know, that recognition and. And needing that to feel enough, you know, rather than just knowing that you are. And so when you're chasing validation relationships, you're suggesting that you and I felt that when I was younger, I felt like I'm not going to be a complete person until I find that right person, really, you know, my partner, you know, and until then, why did you feel that? I. I think it was because I, you know, again, for as great as my parents were, I think, you know, between seeing their love and getting caught up in the. All the rom coms and the romance of love. I think I just kind of had a misconstrue. It was. It was. I felt like it was so important, you know, you gotta find that person, start a family and things like that that I thought to myself, well, if I. Until I find that, I'm not a finished product, you know. And so, you know, when I started looking for love, then it became, you know, looking for the person who I thought made me, you know, a better person. And people will say that too. It's like, what are you looking for? Oh, I'm looking for someone to make me a better person. Well, I learned that was not what you should be looking for. I hope everyone gets to find someone. Like, I feel like I found someone that helps you become your best version of yourself. But no one's going to make you a better person.

Right. That's a lot of responsibility and weight.

A lot of weight. Yeah. And, you know, how do they look next to you and things like that and all those things that at the end of the day don't really matter. And so love is again, just acceptance of what you have and the people you're with and loving your. Your person for their strengths and their weaknesses and. Yeah, I hope I answered your question.

It was beautiful. Yeah. I'm curious, you know, for those that I'm not a big reality TV guy, maybe I watch an episode here and there of stuff, whatever that pops on the tv. But for those that know you from the Bachelorette world, the Bachelor world, and they saw your behaviors then versus where you are now, what would you say was a thing that allowed you to make a switch internally, to stop seeking validation, leading with your ego in a toxic way into transforming that into acceptance, personal growth and attracting someone that seems like a very healthy, conscious relationship versus things that were fighting for something to try to make to work.

Well, I always kind of talk when people always ask me like, you know, what did I learn on the show? And things like that. A lot of people attribute the growth I've learned over life to the being on the show. And I don't really see that to be the case because a lot of my relationship struggles happened in my 20s and I was cheated on after a very brief engagement or found out I was being cheated on after. After getting engaged. And that really, at the time, really, it broke me, you know? Yeah.

I mean, how long were you in the relationship for?

A year and a half. Close to two years. And I ref. You know, I. Now I look at it as one of the most pivotal moments of my life. You know, that's when I learned about my ego and, and. And things like that and started really growing up and. And you know, because I think when it happens, there's a lot of shame around being cheated on. And I was embarrassed and you know, people asked me, it's like, how'd you guys break up? Like, oh, you know, it just didn't work out. It really broke me to the point where, you know, I kind of self isolated for a while. I didn't want to get out and hang out with my friends and things like that. And so I actually wrote a book, read a book called the Power of intentions by Dr. Randwire. I don't know if you've heard of him, but it really. Yeah, it really kind of made me think about just my actions, how I see the world, how I interpreted feeling wrong, my ego, where my thoughts and energy was going, a lot of that in terms of. I learned just the power of intentions in terms of your energy is not infinite your thoughts. You know, I used to feel like I couldn't control my thoughts. I remember my first girlfriend before the one that cheated on me. You know, my. We met at 18 and we broke up several times and it was a really hard breakup and I was just devastated, you know, she was dating some other guy and. And I was pouting for like three, four or five months or something.

Been there.

My mom was the empathetic one. Always like in a weird way, she. I would call her every morning and we'd talk and almost the point where she kind of liked it. My dad one day was like. My dad was like, you gotta get over this man. And I remember saying to him, and I was dead serious. I was like, dad, I have a better chance of levitating than getting over that. And I was serious, you know, and. And I just was so fixated again. That was that murderer, you know. And I think back about it now, I was like proud of myself almost for like holding on to that pain, you know. And I. I learned now sometimes when people have a hard time getting over relationships because it's like they just don't want to let go, sometimes the pain is all you have left of the relationship. You know, you don't want to forget about the pain because that's the last thing you have to hold on to.

Wow.

You know, and I really held on. I held on to that for a long time.

Yeah.

Yeah.

When did you actually finally let go?

I was so like. It really made me Grow up that fast forward to getting cheated on and, and I had to re. Change how I thought and almost like to survive because I think I was such, I was so fixated on finding love and a certain type of love that it consumed me. It really did. I mean, I, I lost friends for a period of time, you know, because I just, you know, no one understood, no one understood my pain or my plight or what I was sacrificing and, and all those things. And I kind of had to get over myself, you know, and then I had a two and a half year relationship with, you know, a really wonderful person, but just we weren't right. The right fit.

This is like your mid to late 20s now.

Mid to late 20s, yeah. Then I was single for a while and ended up going on the Bachelor.

What made you decide to go on the Bachelor?

Curiosity. You know, my friend's wife signed me up as kind of a gag at that point. My girlfriend and I at that time, we had broken up and all my other friends got married. Right. You know, being have kids, you know.

What do I do?

I gotta go to. And I moved to Chicago and my friend's wife signed me up and I got a call that was like, I was just curious, you know, and I was lucky enough that I had a job where they were very supportive of it. But I always, I relapsed is what I tell people. You know, I, I turned back into the 20 year old version of, you know, chasing that validation and that fix. Because the Bachelor is a world that's, you know, people always ask, is it, is it scripted? And it's not scripted. The conversations are very authentic, but it's very staged. It's very controlled. You know, it's a very controlled atmosphere. You're cut off from the rest of the world. You have no access to your support system. You know, you're, you're living in a very controlled house and you have very limited access to the lead. And it's a relationship that's built on withholding love so you can fantasize about your love.

Wow.

You know, so you'll, you'll go on a date. We're on a date, we're connecting. We're going like this. And then all of a sudden, the moment you have a connection, they pull you away, you know, and, and so what you're doing is, you know, you're like, I think she likes me. And that was a really great moment. And then you go back to the house dealer guys and you're just like fantasizing about it.

Oh, my gosh.

And so when I went on, you know, like most people, I was just, I'm not gonna fall in love. But, you know, once I decided to go, I was like, okay, well, I'm here. I'm gonna embrace the experience I chose to be on. And as a result of embracing the experience that was meant to elicit the max amount of emotions, and that's what that environment is like. What they want you to do is just feel and, and get rid of your inhibitions and let loose. Let loose and whatever. You know, I always joke that the producers are the. The friends who tell you to buy.

The boat, you know, the bad decisions.

Yeah, it's like, you know, should I buy a boat? Yeah, man, I want to go jets. You know, like, I want to go on your boat. You know, forgetting about whether it's a good financial decision and things like that. And that, that's. That those are the producers, you know, because they want you to. They want those feelings. And so all the things I learned in my late 20s about, you know, hey, is this. Is this a healthy thought? Is. Is. Is your ego driving this choice? Is it your heart? You know, that went all out the window.

Wow.

And I kind of turned back in, like I said to younger 20 year old Nick. And so it was a lesson because it just reminded me that you're always capable of kind of going back there, you know, and you're always capable of your ego kind of taking over. And it's really just important to always be mindful of why you're making the decisions that you're making. I always say that no one will lie to you more than yourself. You know, we're in our heads all the times and we're. The person I talk to the most is me. You know, I'm a. I'm a heady guy, you know, so I'm always. My fiance will joke with me when I'm in the yard thinking about work or the show. She's like, who are you talking to now? But yeah, and it's. It's very easy to lie to ourselves. You know, do I really want to go out with this person? You know, do I, you know, of a certain job that we think we should take and we'll convince ourselves. And it's very easy to lie to ourselves about what we think we want, you know, because in our head, we've decided what we want. And then we just kind of, you know, through our own biases and, you know, preconceived notions, we will write the narrative through just kind of lies. And we're always capable of that. And so it's just. It really taught me to again, you know, remind myself that you can control your thoughts, you can control your feelings. Maybe not instantly, you know, how we might react and how we might get triggered is how we will feel. But you can, over time, you know, learn to recalibrate your thoughts and your feelings. Because, you know, I used to. I think that was my point back in the day, is about controlling your thoughts. The whole levitating story, now that I remember it, because I used to think, you can't. You can't control your thoughts. You know, how you feel is how I feel. Well, it's how I feel. And there's nothing I can do, Dad. I can't get over it. I have no control over this. And that's. And that's not true. For example, when my fiance cheated on me, I was devastated and I was hurt, and I had been hurt before. But after I started kind of reflecting and learning about my thoughts, when I started going back out, I was still hurting inside. I still felt that pain. But in the past, when someone would come up to me and say, how you doing, Nick? I would be like, miserable suck. You know, I can't find love and my heart's broken. And if you want to listen to me gripe, I'll tell you, you know, and no. And. And that turned into. Instead I decided to change the narrative. People would ask me, how you doing? I'm great, man. You know, And I wasn't always at first, but I tried to project that sure outward energy. And over time, you know, the whole fake it t make it, you kind of start believing you're like, you know, I am. Maybe I am okay, and you start thinking about it a little bit less. But if you keep telling yourself, if you let these negative thoughts in over and over, I would. I stayed negative, you know, and when I started, you know, realizing, you know, can you tell yourself, oh, I'm great? You realize, well, no, I am. You know, I'm. I was. My friends. I am great. I'm at my job. I really like. Well, you know what? It is great. I became able to be more grateful to the things I did have and stop focusing and stressing about the things I didn't have.

Right?

And that just helped me be a lot happier and more content and allowed me to be more grateful and demonstrate more gratitude rather than, you know, skepticism and complaining and things like that.

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I would say the pain doesn't mean they were special.

Oh wow.

Because I used to do that. You know, the more hurt I felt over a breakup, the more my, I don't know if it was my ego or something internally would tell me well that that must mean what I lost was very special, interesting. And that means I have to fight for it, you know.

Oh man. What does the pain mean? Most of the time the pain might.

Mean that like you, it was meaningful. You know, like if you're in any type of long term relationship, you clearly shared meaningful moments. They take up a lot of your time. You probably met their family, they met yours. You've developed some really great memories to get together. You probably made a lot of promises about the future with one another. That now if the relationship ended, you have to think about all the promises you made that aren't going to happen and that could be very painful. That it's the loss, it's the loss of something that you know at one point you held dear in your heart. And I think that's where the pain comes from. Because even at a relationship that is unhealthy or toxic and sadly even sometimes abusive can still be hard to lose because you know, a lot of those relationships take up so much of our energy and time and sometimes when we lose a relationship or a loved one and we lose access to them, we, you know, you have to fill it with, you know, there's the loss of the feelings that you have and the literal loss of all the time that you used to spend with them. Well, now what do you do you know the Sundays that used to go to the farmer's market and the movies? Now it's like, I don't know what to do. And just filling that void, you know, can be very painful at first. But I learned that just because I was hurting over someone doesn't necessarily mean that they were the right fit for me. That, you know, that's what was good for my heart. And I had to then focus on accepting the loss and accepting that the relationship, while meaningful for a period of time, wasn't necessarily something that was right for me.

Wow.

Yeah. So that would be one.

What would you say to yourself when you were, like, eight months in deep, when you're like, I can't control my feelings, and I'll never get over this, and no one understands me? If you were coaching yourself, what would you say?

I would probably tell you myself to get over myself. Yeah. Because most people out there probably can understand heartbreak, you know, And I think that was my ego, you know, when my first love, me and my buddy, my first girlfriend, we met her and her girlfriend at the same time, you know, very kind of serendipitously. And I remember having a thought with my first girlfriend. I think a lot of young people have thoughts like this where it's like, we're kind of the most in love couple.

You know, we're.

We're more in love than with it because it's that ego wanting to be, like, wanting your love. Everyone wants their love to feel and be special. And I think the intentions are pure, but it can kind of turn a little toxic. And so, yeah, I would probably just tell myself to maybe, you know, get over myself a little bit and recognize that I'm not the only one who's ever experienced heartbreak. I'm not the only one who's ever been cheated on. You're not alone. You know, if. If you have been heartbroken, the good news is you're. You're not alone. And unfortunately, infidelity is very commonplace in relationships now more than ever. And, you know, you are. You don't have a reason to be shamed over it. You know, it's not you. It's literally them. You know, there's maybe some things you can learn from. From it. There's always. You can always learn from misfortune and challenges. But I would stop making myself more of a martyr than I need to be, you know, because again, I think the way I dealt with pain back then was to try. That was my ego saying, all right, well, if you can't have the relationship, at least the pain we're feeling right now, we'll find a way to make ourselves feel special about it. So because you're hurting more than anyone else, then you are. You're willing to sacrifice and be sad for love. And somehow that made me feel, I guess, in a way, special, even though it also simultaneously made me feel very down and it kept me stuck. And I think that's what a lot of people experience and breakups is they stay stuck much longer than they need to.

I stay stuck in the past.

Yeah. And it can be scary because it's like, again, some, you know, the longer the relationship, the more memories we have and the future can be. You know, the uncertainty is very scary. And. And so we don't want to face our fears, and so we'll hold onto the past. And like I said before, sometimes we'll hold onto the pain because it's the last thing we have left.

Yeah.

Wow.

What's the best relationship advice you've ever received?

I honestly. I think it was from Dr. Wayne Dwyer. Was. Was what other people think of you is none of your business.

Wow.

And even in relationships sometimes, you know, always kind of worrying about, you know, it's kind of. That's their opinion. And that really, honestly helped me with my relationships on reality TV and handling my relationships with fans and things like that. I always think of relationships more than just romantic ones because you got criticized a ton, and it really. It edits who you are. You know, the more you seek out the opinions of others about yourself, the more changes you. You know, then you're not acting on what you think deep down you should do or, you know, because of what your character is and things like that. It's just like, well, you think this and you think that, and, you know, I hear you there.

Yep.

No, that's a fair point. And I guess I see what you're saying there. So, like. All right, let me do a version of what I guess I think you're all saying. Wow. And. And I think that's kind of how you become someone that doesn't feel like it's you. And. And so, yeah, those other opinions are just. It's. Those are their opinions, and that's their business, and it's none of mine. And that's something I've constantly tried to remind myself of.

This is interesting because you've been in the public eye for, what, like, 10 years now?

Yeah, about a decade now.

About a decade. And you kind of became known by having a public relationship. Right. Or trying to get into a public relationship, being in relationship, love, dating, all that stuff. What's your thoughts on if people should be public with their relationship or they should be posting that they're getting in a relationship with this person and all the date nights they're doing and all the conversations they're having and should they be doing it on TV and doing it on social media? Do you think that creates a healthy long term relationship or is that setting up a disaster?

More the latter. I think it, it's, it's a risk. Yeah. I don't see any real benefit for the relationship. And Natalie and I, you know, we post and about a relationship and she's on the vial files, you know, a lot more now and you know, we like to share some things about our relationship. We certainly don't share everything. I always say, like Instagram's not a love language, but it is for a lot of people. It is for a lot of people. Yeah.

A lot of women love being posted on Instagram.

Why is that?

I can think it's the validation. I think we just are a society that really seeks out the approval of others.

You know, what is the biggest risk of a woman wanting their man to post about them consistently on Instagram?

But again, because you are increasing the chances of you caring a lot about what other people think because you're reading all these comments. Oh, you guys look so good together. You guys. Oh, what is that? And I always say in my experience in the public eye and in social media that the positive comments are more dangerous than the negative one.

Really?

Why?

Because it's easy to dismiss negative ones. They don't owe me. Screw that, that, whatever. But you know, after a few heart eyed emojis and oh my God, you're the cutest couple of all time, you know, whether they're positive or negative, they're all strangers, right? They don't know me, they have no insight into my life. They, they just, they, they, they can make guesses from what they've seen or whatever, but they don't, they don't really know me. But if I'm going to read a bunch of positive comments and take them to heart, well then my subconscious is going to say, well, that's, you're gonna. Well, you can't pick and choose. You have to take the negative ones to heart as well. So by getting the positive ones and you read them, you're like, yep, nope, I'm awesome, I'm awesome, I'm awesome, I'm awesome. And then you're like, well, these are Very valid comments, because I am awesome. And then all of a sudden, that negative one hits you. And even if you say, oh, they don't know me, you've spent all this time not saying that about the positive ones.

They don't know you either.

They don't know you either. But now your. Your subconscious brain is taking it all to heart. And so that's why I always feel like the positive ones are. Are setting you up for the negative interest. Really, it's really dangerous that way.

If there's a woman coming to you asking for advice, saying, you know, I've been in the relationship for six months with this guy, and he hasn't posted about me yet on social media, on Instagram, and I really want him to. What should I say to get him to post about me or how can I do it to get him to post about me? What advice would you give that woman about this conversation?

Well, you know, despite me saying it can be a risk, I do think there's something to be said about, you know, being with someone who gives you the sense that they're proud to be with you, that they want to share their relationship. You know, everything is about balance. And listen, we live in a world where a lot of things are online, so, you know, extremes scare me on anything. So if someone. I've been dating this guy for six months, everything's all right, but he refuses to post. It's a bit of red flag.

Right?

Right.

You know, unless he's just not on social media.

Social media? Yeah, that would be. My first question is like, does he ever post?

Yeah, he's like, no.

Like, no. It's like, well, then I don't think there's an issue if he's posting about his friends and all this stuff, and he's pretty active and he's not posting about you, like, that's definitely a red flag. So if it's the latter and he is an active poster and he's actively on there, I would just. Just tell him how. What it would mean to you. You know, it would just mean a lot if. If you, you know, shared our relationship and just. I just want. I want to feel like you're proud of. Of our relationship, and I think that's an okay feeling. You know, I think the best thing we can do when we communicate to our loved ones is to say, like, this is how I feel about a situation. This would mean a lot. And then the big question is, you give them an opportunity to see if they're willing to make you a priority.

Right.

Because I think there's a lot of relationships out there where people are accepting their partners, not prioritizing them, and choosing to stay in the relationship more out of fear of what else might be out there or what they don't think they can find. Rather than feeling loved and feeling validated. It's funny how, you know, people will call in about relationships and they'll. They'll be frustrated with their partner, and.

I'll.

I. One of my favorite questions I ask them is, what do you like or love about how they make you feel? It's so funny how a lot of times people won't have an answer to that, you know, And Bill, it's like, oh, well, you know, like, if we have fun together and like, you know, he's really smart and he's really nice with people. That's all great, but how do you. What do you love about how they make you feel? Because what I'm hearing from you is you spend a lot of time telling me that you're. You're confused, you're often sad, you feel lonely, you know, so I'm just wondering, what about this relationship are you fighting for?

Yeah. And just because someone looks good on paper doesn't mean they're good for you.

Yeah. And they're. Or they're not. Just. They're not making. You know, what's the point of being a relationship if they don't make you feel loved? Oh, you know, and I think I was that person. I was in a lot of relationships where I asked myself, does this. I don't. I don't think she likes me, you know, because I used to always prioritize chemistry over compatibility, which I think most of us do. Because chemistry is sexy.

It is.

You know, it's fun, you know, it's gives you that spark.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Unfortunately, chemistry is hard to trust, and chemistry can be very much manufactured.

Yes.

You know, chemistry, you know, people are just naturally charismatic. You know, tall, good looking, you know, can brighten up a room when they walk in. Chemistry can be found because of similar interest. People who go on the Bachelor have a natural chemistry because of a shared experience. Being part of the same church or community, that can create chemistry between people. But that doesn't necessarily mean love. Now, compatibility. Compatibility on our hand is. It's not as sexy, it's not as fun, but that you can trust a lot more. You know, do we enjoy being around each other? You know, Natalie is the first person that I've been in a relationship with where we have a lot in common. You know, where we're very compatible. Right. Because I used again, back to that love martyr. I didn't even prioritize chemistry compatibility at all. It was like. And I. And I was like, well, it doesn't matter. We're in love. Love, it's all. It doesn't matter. You know, I'm. I love her and love will conquer all. But then every day was just like, so what do you, like, what do you want to eat for dinner? Like, what should we watch?

It was like, complete opposite.

Yeah, it was the opposite. You know, and love. Relationships are hard enough.

Yeah.

You know, even when you're super compatible and you're on the same page most of the time, it still requires sacrifice and compromise. And if you have to do that for every decision every day, it is exhausting.

Exhausting.

And yeah, I just, you know, we, we are. We're a society that prioritizes chemistry far too much, and we have to give compatibility a little bit more of a spotlight.

Who do you think Chi Moore today, men or women?

I don't have the statistics, but I would guess it's pretty 50. 50. I've heard it's women, but that's what I've heard too. I don't know for sure, but when you listen to society, it sounds like it's only men. You know, unfortunately, you know, like, we talked about this when we. You were on. On my show, but I'm glad there's been a correction, you know, for some bad actors out there in terms of, you know, poor behavior for men, demonstrating things like toxic masculinity and abuse sometimes and, you know, things like that. And I think that, you know, there were. Me too. Was necessary for a lot of reasons, but I think there's almost been an overcorrection in the sense where, like right now, you know, when it comes to. I think the stereotypes of men is fair game and to the point now, but the stereotypes of women are almost illegal. You know, never, never generalize or, you know, and I don't want to generalize anyone, men or women, you know, but it, I think it's. It's gotten to a point where the ick. Talking about icks for men and criticizing men for other behavior. I think we unfortunately are creating a generation of men who feel like their plight is not being understood and heard. But, yeah, I think men and women both very much cheat, maybe for different reasons. But I think unfortunately, we dating society has made everyone replaceable, expendable. We have a very disposable society. You know, from fast fashion to fast food, to fast relationships. And everyone is disposable. And I think that in itself has created a lot of infidelity. Right?

Right.

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Were coaching your 23 year old self 20 years ago, actually, if you were coaching a woman that was going to date yourself 20 years ago and they came to you now as a 43 year old, okay. With the wisdom, the experience and the advice that you have now. And they come to you called Sally.

Right.

Sally comes to you saying, Nick, man, I love this guy, this young Nick guy. Like, I really want to date him. And you knew everything about you. What would be the three biggest red flags about you that you would tell a woman trying to date you at 23?

That's a good question. I would say, well, his heart's in the right place, but I think sometimes he is a little misguided, I guess would be one. I was definitely a lot more narrow minded. You know, I thought I was. I would probably remind her that he is a little more sure of himself than he should be.

Overly covenant.

Yeah. A little overly confident. Not cocky, but a little more ignorant than he realizes. I'm not gonna go on and on. He's messy and forgetful and annoying and all those things. But I would say he's a little bit more judgmental than he, he, he, he should be. I think that kind of goes with kind of the ignorance of, that youthful ignorance of, you know, it's like, you know, when you're in your 20s, you think you have it all figured out because like 23 feels so old. What's weird, because I say like we spend most of our 20s trying to live up to the expectations we set for ourselves when we were 16. You know, it's like when you're 16, you dream about like getting the BMW and finding the wife or having some job and then you get to like, you're 25, 26, you're like, I don't want to do that anymore. Like, but like you spend all this time trying to trace that dream because you told yourself when you were 17, 18 year old self that you were going to do this.

Right.

And I, I don't think I really knew who I was as a man until I was about 29.

Wow, man.

You know, and I was comfortable with who I was and I was willing to accept my vulnerabilities and my weaknesses. And that would be another thing I'd probably maybe remind her is that he is maybe afraid to acknowledge some of his insecurities and fears. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So good, good advice.

Yeah, thanks.

Those are probably some red flags to look out for today.

Yeah.

If anyone's looking to date someone if they don't have those things fully figured out, if they're not Willing to work on those things.

Yeah, like, you know, if you ask someone, like, well, here it's like, you know, in an interview, like, what are your weaknesses? And they say, I work too hard. You know, stuff like that. You know, you really. You don't really know someone until they know, like, what they're afraid of about themselves and their vulnerabilities and. And what scares them, what makes you know, why, where do they feel like they're incomplete and things like that? Because we all have them. And it can be really hard and scary to admit, but it's really important to acknowledge.

You mentioned something about learning to accept love. I'm curious. Can you truly accept and feel loved by someone else if you don't learn to love yourself?

Oh, no, I don't think so. Yeah, because if. Because you don't believe it. You know, if you think you don't. Are undeserving of love. And if you think you're a piece of. And if you think that, you know, you're not good enough. When someone says, I think you're great and I love you, you honestly will think they're lying to you.

Even if you're chasing them and even if you're trying to be with them.

Yeah, even. Yeah, you'll. Yeah. You might feel validated or special. You, like, get that kind of. That fix. You know, I create a lot of relationship advice, like sugar, like, food advice, you know, that I always refer to people as, like, Sour Patch Kids. I had this, like, epiphany. I was like, how can I. I was explaining to. I was dating an actress at the time, and her sister was asking me for relationship advice, and she was talking about this guy over and over about, like, he would go out with me, you know, we do all these boyfriend and girlfriend things, and then they would hook up and then he would disappear, and then she'd feel like crap afterwards. And I'm like, you know who he is? He's a Sour Patch Kid. She was like, what do you mean? And I was just like, well, like, when I eat Sour Patch Kids, I love them. When I talk about it right now, my mouth is salivating, you know, just thinking about it. And every once in a while, I'll indulge in a bag of Sour Patch Kids.

And.

But every time I eat it, even though I get that fix and it's so good going in, I inevitably always feel like crap because, well, they're crappy food. Nothing about Sour Patch Kids will nourish your body. You can. You're not going to get healthy out of putting Sour Patch Kids in your body. So that fix is always followed by that hangover of being crappy. And a lot of people are kind of that Sour Patch Kids or that hangover of that fix of validation, that temporary short term feeling of excitement and the euphoria of feeling enough only followed by that kind of hangover of not feeling good enough. So back to you. Like, if you don't really love yourself and you don't truly believe it, you know, they might compliment you, they might say this, I love you. And you're kind of caught off guard and you're feeling good, but then you'll, then you'll get in your head, you'll be like, well, do they really, Are you sure? You know, they can't really love me. It's just like you look in the mirror and you're kind of disgusted with yourself. And then, you know it'll be followed by that hangover of, of that kind of that, that excitement going away. And so, yeah, I think it really is important to truly be comfortable with who you are. As I get older. I'm sure you've done this too. Like, again, there's a you, you, you're never a finished product. Like, I always want to work on myself. I always want to work on my bad habits, of which I have many. But I also have gotten to the point in my life and I remember a moment when I, Natalie and I first started dating and she was giving me a hard time because I don't ever close cabinet doors. You know, I leave things open. I'm a very disorganized person. And I said to her, I'm like, listen, I promise you'll always work on this. But I just want you to know this is also who I am. You know, this is. I've never been good at this, you know, and I remember and yeah, I was kind of half joking, but like just me being able to say that to her and just say I have some really bad habits. And honestly my brain works a certain way that I'm just, I've. I've tried so hard to be good at this stuff and correct it, but it's, it's just hard for me. I, I don't know how to, like, I don't know how to do this.

Yeah.

And just to say that out loud to her and young 23 year old me would nep. I would never have acknowledged that. Oh, yeah, no, I can do that. Yeah, I'm right on that, babe. I'll master that. I'll you know, I was never willing to acknowledge that there's some things are just really hard for me. Wow, I'm really not good at this. I'm really gonna struggle with this. This is a weakness of mine.

And when you can say that and someone else can see and accept it.

Ye, you know, it's annoying. But okay, you know, I'll put up with it. Yeah, accept it like it's a lot easier because even if those little things of, of pretending that you're somehow going to master closing cabinet doors or never be forgivable, you know that you're not being honest with yourself, you know you're not being honest with them and then that subconscious brain feels like they're going to find out about me. And usually our bad habits could run much deeper than not being able to close cabinet doors. And so that subconscious and fear thought of they're going to find out who I really am. I think will often lead to that like fear of abandonment and rejection and always kind of live, live in that state of like, fear of like not being enough and things like that.

Why do you think so many people settle in relationships for something they know is not right for them?

Fear of, of finding it elsewhere, I think. Yeah. Fear of wasted time. You know, I, I think you know me about to be a father for the first time. I want to, I want to figure out how I can teach my daughter perspective, which I don't know if you can. I remember going through a heartbreak after my fiance cheated on me. We were living together and I didn't want to keep living with her. So I moved in with grandma who, who also lived in downtown Milwaukee at the time. She's a hip grandma, but grandma nonetheless. That was very embarrassing for me.

How old are you now?

28.

28. Yeah.

It ended up being a very memorable moment of my life. But at the time I was living with a lot of shame.

Yes.

And my grandma, my grandfather left her for other women when she was in like in the 70s and she had to raise five kids on her own in the time where a lot of people were getting divorced and a lot, when a lot of. Not a lot of women in the workforce.

So she had shame from that. She had a shared experience.

Shared experience. But she also had the perspective and she ended up dating and you know, and, and she taught me that like, you know. Well, I was at a time where I thought my life was over. I'm. I'm a failure. I'm a 28 year old man. I'm almost 30 and I've had nothing but failed relationships. So much so that now I've been engaged and I got cheated on and I bought this ring and I'm an embarrassment to myself and my friend. That's how I truly felt. And she taught me that my life wasn't over. In fact, it was probably just beginning that you're only 28 and you know, I don't know when I'm going to die but I was, she was banking on the fact that I wouldn't live as long as she had and, and I had a lot of years left and I might have some more loves that might not work out and life is definitely a journey and when you find that right person, it might be much longer than you realize. But from now you might have to be more patient. But like, you know, there's so many opportunities to reinvent yourself which I I really grateful that I learned from my grandmother Phyllis. And I think back to that guy, that 20 year old man and I think about how many times I've now reinvented myself. Only at 43 years old, I was an accounting major, got a job as an accountant. Then I decided to get into sales. Had a successful sales career in corporate America, quit that, left that, went on reality tv, had a little stint on reality TV and then got into, you know, podcasting and being, you know, really interested in relationships and social dynamics. And you know, now I'm, you know, doing what I'm doing now, but who knows how long I'm going to do this? You know, hopefully for a long time, but you never know. Life brings you challenges and just, you know, I think we think that once we in our 20s that we somehow have to lock in to whatever it is we're doing. And that fear of, you know, starting over is I think scary for a lot of people. But I have learned and you know, that sometimes starting over is really the best. Just to press that reset button. It's never really too late to press that reset button to reinvent yourself into something completely different. You know, I can't think of how many times in my twenties when I thought to myself, hey what if I went back to school? Or what if I did that? And thinking past three years, three year commitment, I got to do that. And then three years would go by and then I would think back and look, I remember that time three years ago and I was thinking about what if I went back to school And I thought to myself, I haven't really done anything that significant in those three years and had I gone back to School, I would have been right where I wanted to be. But I didn't do anything. And why didn't I? You know? And then I stopped doing that. I started being more of a doer and saying yes to things. I wasn't much of a risk taker in my 20s. I'd become a big risk taker later in life. You know, quit my job, go on this TV show, move out to LA with kind of a hope and dream. But yeah, I played it kind of close to the vest in my 20s and I realized I didn't get me very far.

Interesting. Man, this is fascinating.

Now, Natalie, right?

She's your fiance. Have you guys picked a name for your. We have your child. Is that public yet or not? Okay, cool, I'll tell you. Yeah, tell me afterwards. But you got a girl coming, right?

I have a girl. We have a girl coming, yes.

I'm curious. What do you really want her to know as she grows up in terms of how to get into a healthy relationship? Fast forward 20, 23 years from now, she's graduated college. Yeah, she's where you were at 23. What do you really want her to know and what do you want to teach her about love, relationships, intimacy, being with a man and what that looks like?

Well, one, I guess, you know, sounds almost cheesy or cliche that she's deserving of love, that she is truly loved. And I want my daughter and any kid I have after her to know that really they're kind of capable of anything. I want my kid to have perspective and I don't. You know, I want them to be hard working, but I don't want them. I want them to understand their value, I guess, is what I'm trying to say. And their value comes from how they treat themselves and how they love their family and how they take care of the people they love. And I want them to understand that their time is not infinite and that their energy is not infinite and that the people that they spend time with has a cost, everything, you know, and so anytime we have a, react. An interaction with someone when they start dating, to ask themselves, is this person like worth my time? You know, where is it getting me? You know, Because I don't want my daughter to chase the wrong things. And I don't want my daughter to feel like she is not enough or that there's something inside that's missing. And instead of seeking out love that's going to make her feel content and safe and valued, I don't want her to go out there and chase something that just, you know, fills a void that she thinks she has. You know, So I hope to give her enough love and make her feel valued. And I want her to value the. Hopefully the hard work she puts into whatever it is she wants to do or create. To know that her time is special and to not waste that on people who aren't gonna prioritize her, who might use her and things like. And also to respect the people around her and respect their time. If she's going to expect people to value and prioritize her, then she has to be willing to do the same for those people as well. I hope I answered your question. Sometimes you ask a question, I just am.

We're both not fathers yet, so maybe you don't have the answer to this, but how do you think a father can teach their daughter how to feel loved and valued without needing a toxic man to chase them?

Well, I think it is just giving them that love and attention. You know, I have a lot of my. My fiance will joke about having her own daddy issues, you know, because I think daddy issues can be a real thing. And I think sometimes when you grow up in a, you know, a lot of our trauma you talked about, this comes from our childhood. And if you're not loved and you're not cared for, and I think it can create a void that you try to fill in toxic ways. And so I think really just being present and being around and paying attention and showing an interest in what they do and not just be a parent, you know, like there's a balance. You know, it's like you want to be a parent and you want to teach them respect. And, you know, it's not just. It's not your job just to be their friend because, you know, they can have friends, but at the same time, you know, have a connection with your. Your. Your daughter or your kids. You know, I guess that's what I think. Right. I don't want her to feel like she's not getting the love that she deserves from me and that I'd rather have my daughter say, hey, dad, you know what? I know you love me. Thanks. You know, back off a little bit in a way, you know, kind of be annoyed with dad because, ah, dad, why do you have to, you know, rather than. It would break my heart to know that my daughter wonders if I loved her or wonders why I don't spend enough time with her, wonders why, you know, I prioritize other things over her that would break my heart. Yeah. And I don't want those actions to affect her in her adult life because you know, they often can. Yeah.

What do you think needs to die inside of you before your daughter is born for you to be the best father you can be or something you need to let go of or step into?

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Probably that fear of abandonment is again, anytime you're operating under fear, it's you're just not making choices that are usually healthy.

Right.

You know, I also, I don't want to pass my anxiety down to my daughter and I can be a pretty anxious person. Right. You know, I don't want my fears to become her fears, you know, and so unnecessarily worrying about things outside of my control is definitely something I don't want to pass down to my daughter.

That's good.

It's good. You know, 20 years ago when we started getting into relationships and dating, things are a lot different today, it seems like than they were 20 years ago. Where do you think things are going to be in 20 years when your daughter starts dating and being with boys?

And I'm worried.

Yeah, we just got in the social media world, you know, it's gone too fast.

You know, I think technology has made it easier and easier to disconnect from each other. You know, and we are social creatures. We, we need human connection and technology has made it easier and easier to not connect with each other. From human to human, the art of communication has been lost with people and I'm really afraid that things like AI and technology will offer us non human options to find some sort of connection. It sounds almost sci fi is, but I don't think we're that far away from it. We're becoming lonelier and lonelier as a society. Men are even lonelier and lonelier. I saw a study recently about men are making less and less friends and like we're just. We're isolating more. And so, yeah, I am worried about that. I'm worried about, you know, the potential options for my daughter in terms of making connections. And I almost feel like there needs to be like a renaissance with dating where we have to kind of go back to our roots and we have to limit our options and limit our choices. And, you know, we say things like being intentional, but, you know, we truly have to be. We had to start asked, why are we dating? You know, what? You know, people go out and date and it's like, well, why are you doing it? Now we have this kind of hookup culture. You know, it's just like, yeah, I'm in my 20s. I'm going around and hook up with people and listen, I'm not here to shame anyone if they want to go out and have some sex. But, like, just be honest with yourself about what you're doing.

Right?

You know, and if. If you're really focused on meeting someone who's right for you, then you maybe have to reflect on maybe your past choices. And, you know, who are the people you're choosing to go on dates with? You know, is it the person that will, you know, really give you that ego fix because you think they're really good looking or have a certain type of job or they have a certain type of value that you think that if you were able to land that person, it will make you feel special? And you have to start thinking about, how is this person going to make you feel? How are you going to be able to connect with this person on a daily basis? Is this someone who is willing every day to prioritize your connection? Because that's the thing, and that's something Natalie and I really focus on. And it's really helped us in our relationship because, like, I think sometimes I used to do this. You get in a relationship, it's like, I really like you. You know, we've been my boyfriend, girlfriend, and then you decide, it's like, oh, I like this person. And most of the time when we date, once we meet someone we like and we decide we like them or we realize we like them, we actually stop getting to know them. You know, it's like, oh, now I like you. And now I have to just keep making sure you like me instead of realizing, well, even though we like each other, there's a lot to learn about each other and you're going to grow as a person, I'm going to grow as a person. And every day and then. And ask myself. How connected are we? You know, because that's a tangible thing that we can. We can actually measure. You know, today I feel less connected to you than I did the day before. Okay, well, and then I can address that, you know, and there are days where Natalie and I will say, hey, I just. I feel a little disconnected from you. Can we try to be more connected? In the past, I never. We never. I never used that language in relationships, and I didn't know how to quantify, you know, being in a fight or just, you know, feeling like I just, you know, I think we've been kind of going through the motions. And so, you know, Nelly and I really focus on and give some actual thought to, like, how connected we are, because that's something we can name, and then it doesn't become anyone's fault. It's not like, right, why did you do this? Or you're always going out. You're always doing this. It's like, I just don't feel as connected to you, and I'm not. I don't know what it is. Let's just talk about it. Let's just figure it out. And then in that way, it's not being adversarial. You know, it's not pointing fingers. It's just we prioritize our connection. That's the kind of the lifeblood of our relationship. And so it's either we're either coming close together, staying together, or moving further apart. And, you know, we check in from time to time, you know, about how close we're feeling. And. And there are days where, you know, it's. I just feel a little distant from you. Disconnected, Disconnected. And so, if nothing else, sometimes it's just holding each other's hand. You know, we started prioritizing holding hands and going out in public and just, you know, always holding hands. And that just is a way. A very tangible way of literally being connected to your partner. But you can kind of feel that, you know, and. And sometimes that's just enough, you know, caressing each other and things like that. You know, it kind of sounds corny, but, like, make love without having sex sometimes, you know, and. And that way, you can be more intentional with your connection because, you know, especially with guys, sometimes you can have sex, and it really has nothing to do with connecting.

Right.

And so that's something I've had to learn, too, in terms of really prioritizing my connection with my partner and going out of my way to, you know, really make her feel seen and be present and pay attention to her and listen to what she's saying, because those are all things I've struggled with.

That's beautiful, man. I want to acknowledge you, Nick, for everything you've had to overcome, really, in the last decade. You know, from being a public figure and being thrown into this universe where you're being judged and criticized for everything, to continually diving in deep with therapy, with healing, with being of service now with your platform, it's been really cool to see the transformation happen. So I want to acknowledge you for being a force for good these days and for being in a. What seems to be, again, I don't know, your fiance, but it seems to be a healthy, loving relationship, one that you can be proud of, that you're excited about, that feels like a good representation of who you've always wanted to be. So I just want to acknowledge you for all you're doing and everything you've overcome.

I appreciate that. And I honestly, I would say as far as my relationship goes, I think pride and a healthy pride would probably be how I feel about it, because I never want to give some of illusion that Nelly and I have some sort of picture perfect relationship. We work really hard on a relationship and, you know, like every other relationship, we've had our struggles and we've had to overcome things and. But we do work really hard and. And it is a priority for both of us to make that relationship work. And that's why I'm. I'm proud of that relationship. Not so much that it's some sort of. That's not that it's a lot of. It's very easy a lot of the time, you know, because I think of our compatibility, but, you know, we. We care about that relationship and it's a priority for us to move it forward. And I think that's what makes it successful. Not because of destiny or. Or because, like, we just love each other so hard.

You set an intention. Yeah, an intention to make it great and to focus on it and to. To be present. The power of intention.

Absolutely.

I've got two hypothetical questions and one definition for you, and then we'll be complete. Okay, hypothetical question number one. You're 6320 years from now. What is the thing? If you could go into this hypothetical scenario, you can imagine your life fast forward in 20 years. Hopefully it takes a long time, but you're there. What is the thing you'll be most proud of that you did from 43 to 63 at that time?

That's easy, being a father. It's funny because, like, I'VE had a lot of different hopes and dreams in my life, and a lot of those have changed. You know, sometimes we. You know, I never imagined I'd be a podcast host talking about reality TV and relationships, but being a father has always been the one constant. And yet it's taken me a while to get there, but there's nothing more exciting other than I have. We have two dogs and Natalie. But, like, now that I have a daughter on the way, to know that, like, really everything I do going forward isn't for me anymore. The feeling of taking care of the people you love is, to me, a very rewarding feeling. And again, I'm not trying to be a martyr. Like, I'm not saying I won't matter, but I will get so much joy and so much fulfillment out of raising my child and raising our children and taking care of my family that it motivates me so much, and it's so rewarding. It gives me more purpose, you know, to that purpose, that there are people in this world that really count on you for survival and for love and for affection really drives me. And it kind of makes everything I do worth it. And so, without question, you know, 20 years from now, it will be my what I have brought as a father. Wow. Will be the most meaningful thing.

That's beautiful, man. Hypothetical question number two. I ask everyone at the end of our episodes this question. It's called the Three Truths. So imagine you get to live as long as you want to live, and you accomplish everything and have the family and the relationship you want.

Everything.

It all happens. But it's your last day, many years away, as old as you want to be. And for whatever reason, in this hypothetical scenario, you've got to take everything with you that you've created. So this conversation's gone. Everything you put on your podcast, social media, books, whatever you create in the future is gone. Okay, so we don't have access to your information or content anymore, but on this final day, you get to leave behind three lessons. And this is all we would have to be reminded of your context.

Okay.

I call it three Truths. What would be those three truths for you?

Don't seek validation. Seek love. Would be one. Yeah, I mean, we haven't really talked much about it, but if there is a quality that I have that I value the most would be my resiliency. Life is meant to be hard, and that's okay. And, you know, we live in a world. I think sometimes we're not teaching people how to overcome adversity and having that ability to pick yourself back up. And so I guess my. That truth would be just, you know, just keep going. Every problem is definitely an opportunity would be one for sure because that, that has served me really well because there have been some times in my life where I was like, I don't know how I got here, I don't know where I'm going to go, but I've figured it out. And it's amazing when you look back on those moments and sometimes your most painful moments in the present become your best memories in the future because you look back and you realize what you overcome. And it was those painful moments that really got you where you're going. So just be resilient and keep finding new ways to reinvent yourself, I guess would be number two, you know. And then when it comes to relationships, make sure that you feel loved, I guess. Yeah. Because like I just, I only say that just because, you know, there have been times, for example, where any challenge that Nellie and I have had, I always thought to myself, I really feel her love. And to me that's what made. That's why I fight for that relationship. I think in relationships had in the past, I didn't think about that. I didn't recognize that. And I very stubbornly fought for relationships that I didn't feel love because I was afraid of being a failure. So just be mindful of the love you feel from the people you surround yourself with. That's what I would say.

It's a good One final question, Nick. What's your definition of greatness?

I think resiliency. Yeah, I don't know. I really value my ability to overcome obstacles because I think that has. That's what has brought me to where I'm at in my life because I think there are. I've had challenges where I didn't think I'd overcome them and so I guess I'm just really proud of that and, and to me, the whatever greatness I have in my life I attribute to my resiliency.

There you go. So, yeah, Nick, my man, thanks for.

Coming on your time.

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