The 3 Critical Building Blocks of All Life-Long Relationships EP 1475

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When you are doing different, you degrade the other person. They're less important to you. They don't matter. Ultimately, what we feel in relationships is that we matter.

Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. Welcome to this special masterclass. We've brought some of the top experts in the world to help you unlock the power of your life through this specific theme today. It's going to be powerful, so let's go ahead and dive in. What are the challenges that come up over and over that you see?

There's always three questions, right? What's a thriving relationship?

A thriving one.

What can go wrong? And how do you fix it? So you started with the middle question.

What goes wrong?

I think there's a number of things in a relationship that become the kind of cornerstones of the demise, okay? And I'm not going to list them in order, but they all are part of each other. Indifference and contempt and neglect and violence are probably the four most important. I'm not talking about big violence. Microaggressions are plenty. Indifference, when you start to feel like the other person fundamentally is not really caring about you anymore, or you don't care about them, what they feel, what they think, who they are, what they're about, You just don't care.

You've lost interest.

But it's more than losing of interest. It's also when you are doing different, you degrade the other person. They're less important to you. They don't matter. And ultimately what we feel in relationships is that we matter. That is the essential reason for connecting to people, is that we are creatures of meaning. I matter to you. I'm someone. You care about me. You want my well-being. You're proud of me. You want good for me. You're benevolent. All of that. When you are indifferent, that whole thing And then you start to this, that coldness that creeps in, that sense of estrangement, that complete disconnect, that. The second one is neglect. Neglect, when people just basically take each other for granted. You know, they take more care of their car than of their partner. Or their dog or their dog, anybody, anything, their yard, anything, anything gets attendance.

Their business.

Their business for sure. Their business for sure. You know, everything gets priority, everything gets reviewed, evaluated, attended to, 360, You name it, you know, new input, my God, it's like people have this idea that they put it all in when they were dating, and then once they seal the knot, it's like as if they tied the knot, it's like now they don't have to do squat anymore, and they go into this kind of complete sense of complacency and laziness. It's an amazing thing. They think this thing is just gonna live on its own, like a cactus. Violence, the abuse, the level of disrespect, I mean, most people talk nicer to anybody else than their partner when a relationship deteriorates.

Why is that?

Because you can't get away with it. Because you can't get away with it. Because if you talk like this at work, you're gone. Because if you talk like this with the police, you're gone. Because if you talk like this on the street, you're being punched. But with your partner, you have that sense that they're going to be there anyway. They're just going to take it because it's family. And family is this kind of thing that doesn't dissolve so easily. So you can just lash out at them and talk to them with a tone and a dismissal that is phenomenal. So that kind of violence, I'm not talking physical violence and all the other big things.

You're talking about aggression or resentment or... All of that. All of that, you know, passive aggressiveness, all those things. Yeah.

All of that. And then, and then contempt, I think, is the top one. Contempt is the killer of them all. Because in the contempt, there is a real, there's the degradation of the Is that complete, you're nothing. You're nothing. I can kill you with that one gaze, that one eyebrow that goes up, you know, who do you think you are? And that's it, you're done. You're done.

So how do we even get to this place of these places?

After having been so in love and so romantic, right?

Is desire reflect that, or if we're not desiring the person anymore, then we start to feel one of those categories. Or does that not play into a--.

Look, the truth is this. There's only two relationships that resemble each other. The one you have with your parents or the people who raise you, and the one you have with the people you fall in love with. People can sit in my office all the time and say, I have this with no one else. I don't have this with anybody at work. Nobody among my friends ever thinks like that. You're the only one who speaks like this or thinks this about me or with whom I do this. No. You're the only one, and now we go back in history. And I'm sorry to be the psychologist, but that's really... It is the place where we often learned about closeness, trust, loyalty, commitment, sharing, taking, receiving, asking, all these essential verbs of relationships. We learned that at home.

We also learned jealousy and... Possessiveness, vengeance, you name them.

The beauty and the not beauty.

Yeah, we saw it all as children, right? We saw the fights, we saw the.

Love, we saw the, you know, we saw the coldness, the lack of intimacy, the intimacy, yes. And we bring that with us, and we often promise ourselves, I'll never be that one. I'll never be this way. I'll never talk like this. And we find ourselves often much closer to the apple.

And then resenting ourselves. We resent ourselves. We're like, how do we do that?

Why did we get to this place? And then we feel ashamed about it. And since we don't like to feel ashamed about it, we hide it. And one of the way we hide it is we blame the partner. That's just one of the ways. We are very resourceful in not owning our shit.

Right, exactly. Exactly. Wow, okay. And where does sex play in all this and desire?

So, I mean, one of the fascinating things for me in looking at sexuality is that it's probably One of the dimensions of relationship that has changed the most in a very, very short amount of time for most of history and in still the majority of the world. Sex is for procreation. Sex is a marital duty on the part of the woman. Nobody cares particularly if she likes it and how she feels and if she wants it. And men have the privilege to go and find sex elsewhere. In a very short amount of time, we're talking 60 years, we have contraception. which is the liberation of women for the first time to free sex from reproduction, from mortality, from death in pregnancy and in childbirth, sorry, all of that. And for the first time sexuality moves from just biology and a condition to a part of our identity and a lifestyle.

In 60 years.

In 60 years. The women's movement, which goes after the abuses of power, the gay movement, which introduces the concept of identity to sexuality. The fact that sex is for connection and pleasure. The fact that for the first time we have sex before marriage and many times a lot. We used to marry and have sex for the first time. Now we marry and we stop having sex with others. Monogamy used to be one person for life. Now monogamy is one person at a time. And people go around telling you, I'm monogamous in all my relationships. And it makes perfect sense to them. Okay? All of that in a very short amount of time. The fact that I choose you to marry or to live together doesn't matter. Commitment, because I'm attracted to you. Because you give me butterflies in my stomach. And the fact that I think that if I don't have these butterflies anymore, maybe I don't love you anymore. And the fact that sexuality in long-term relationships is rooted in wanting only desire. I feel like it. I want to. Not I have to, not we want many kids after two kids. The only reason to continue doing it with you is because we feel like it. And hopefully it's pleasurable.

It's pleasurable.

It's pleasurable. We connect, it feels good, it rounds our relationship.

Deepens our relationship.

The whole thing. That's it. And hopefully it's at the same time and for each other. Because plenty of desire continues, but it's not always at home.

Right, exactly.

So this is an amazing revolution.

Sex that is confusing all of us.

And how do we sustain it? So that's why I became fascinated in the nature of erotic desire and how do we sustain desire because it is the first time ever that we have a grand experiment of the humankind where we want sex with one person in the long haul that is fun and connected and intimate and playful and we live twice as long. Go figure.

Right, exactly. For 60 years you're going to be with them or whatever it is.

It's an amazing ideal.

Navigate this. If we're going to choose one partner and be with them until, you know, we're both gone, how do we navigate the challenge of keeping the desire continuously?

I think the focus Both men and women.

Yes.

Because the woman probably sees other men who are attracted to her and, you know, vice versa. So it's like, how do both parties do this?

Look, we know that women get bored with monogamy much sooner than men.

Wow. Is this a factor?

That's research. That's not just fact. That is men's desire in long-term relationship goes down gradually. He actually is much more able to remain interested. And maybe just because he's interested in the experience itself and he has a partner there. Women's desire post-marriage.

Really?

And it's always been translated as, well, that's because women care less about sex. Rather than it's because women care less about the sex that they can have. in their committed relationships, which is often not interesting enough for them. And it often has to do with the fact that the story, the character, the plot is not seductive. The romance, which is an essential ingredient of turn-on for the woman, often disappears in the long-term relationship. It's like when people look at each other at the end of the day and you want to fool around, you want to do it, you're up for it tonight. Now, this is really not this is not very much of a turn on for most women. And the idea that foreplay often starts at the end of the previous orgasm, you know, and not five minutes before the real thing. Right. Which for her is not the real thing. The whole. The real thing is everything else. So it's essentially the game.

Yes. It's creating a game.

Seduction. It's a plot. It's a coming close. It's a team.

Mystery.

It's what animals call pacing. It's that I come to you, but I don't overwhelm you. I come just a little bit so that you can come a little bit toward me. And then I don't immediately answer. I actually go. back a little bit too. Have you ever seen animals? They do this kind of pacing and it is an essential playful ingredient of seduction and excitement. So women's desire plummets, but we interpret it as women are less interested in sex rather than women are interested in probably just about the same kind of things that many men are. But women have always known what to choose above what turns them on, which was what gives them stability and security.

Safety and security. family, someone to protect, be there, right?

So what people do, look, this is we want one partner today to give us everything that involves stability and security and everything that involves playfulness and mystery. Okay, that's the grand ideal, okay? I want to be cozy with you and I want to have an edge and I want you to surprise me and I want you to be familiar and I want you to give me continuity and I want you to give me novelty. That's it. As if it's a, right? And no Victoria's Secret is going to solve that.

Yeah.

All right. So then it becomes, what is desire? Desire is to own the wanting. If you ask people a question that goes like this, I turn myself off when, I turn myself off by, not you turn me off when, and what turns me off is. You're gonna hear, I turn myself off when I do emails, when I spend too much time on the phone, when I overeat, when I don't exercise, when I have bad bad days at work, when I don't feel confident, when I numb myself, when I feel dead, when I don't feel thriving, when I'm not alive, you will really hear that it has very little to do with sex. And when you ask people, I turn myself on when or by, I awaken my desires. Not you turn me on when and what turns me on is, which is, i.e. you're responsible for my wanting. What people will talk to you about is, when I'm in nature, When I'm connected with my friends, when I get to do my sports, when I play music, when I listen to music. It's stuff that gives me pleasure, that is alive, that is vibrant, that is vital, that is erotic in the full sense of the word as life force. And from that place, people remain interested in having sex with somebody else for the long haul. Not because they've scratched their arms for two seconds.

Right, right.

I feel good about myself. The biggest turn on is confidence. You ask people, when do you find yourself most drawn to your partner? Every description has to do with when they're in their element, when they're on stage, when they're doing their sport, when they are radiant, when they are in their studio, on the piano, on the horse, you name it. It's when they are in their element, i.e. They don't need me to take care of them.

They're not depressed and down on me and sad.

They're not needy. They don't need me because desire is about wanting you. Love is also about needing you. Caretaking is a very powerful experience in love and it is a very powerful anti-aphrodisiac.

So how do you experience love and desire at the same time?

You calibrate it. So sometimes you're It's the same as when you walk. You have to move from one foot to the other. A balance is not about staying on one side. A balance is the ability to see right now we don't need caretaking. We can be mischievous, we can be naughty, we can be playful, we can break our own rules, we can stay home and not go to work at 8 o'clock. And now we are in a playful zone. Now we are feeling that we are bringing our own little transgressions home. We are alive. We're not just being dutiful, responsible, good citizens. It's that. Very small, you know? I always think when I go and I see people at lunch and you see them talking and they're well dressed and they're awake and all that. I said, who is here with their partner? Because you can see them, they're engaged, they're giving the best of themselves. That's erotic. No, the majority are not there with their partner. They're there with their friends, with their colleagues. Their partner is going to get the leftover when they come home at night. Sorry, you know what? Forget the night date. Meet at lunch when you actually have energy. You know, when you, and in the middle of the day like that, when you're awake, when you have something to offer, it's a very small thing, but they don't do it. They don't do it. And you say, why not? Why not? Why don't you stay an hour extra at home in the morning and not just because when you have a headache and just say, this matters to me. All in all, you know, committed sex is premeditated sex. It's not just gonna happen. 'Cause whatever is gonna just happen already has. So you're gonna make it happen. Because you say, we matter, we're important, let's do this, let's spend. It doesn't mean if you're gonna make love or have sex, it just means we're gonna take this hour and there's nothing else that matters in this moment, but just you and I to be together, to check in. And then we'll see what unfolds. That's the erotic space in which sex may happen, probably will, doesn't have to, but it is the place from which it is much more likely to emerge. But people don't do that. They do the responsibility, that's the love, right? The citizen, the commitment, the care taking, the burdens, the safe. And then they say, I'm bored. I would be too.

Exactly, there's no mystery, there's no risk taking, right? Exactly, yeah.

There's no risk taking, that's the word. If you want desire, it's risk. And the risk is an emotional risk. It's not about sexy risks, it's really a risk on the emotional front, is that I bring something else to you differently from the way I typically present myself. What can I do today that will be different from the ways that I've done it until now? How can I do something that I think would actually improve our relationship? Me, right? Not something that I want or that you want, but that I think would be actually good for us, that third entity, the us.

Right?

And you check every time, you know, how often do you just go on the tried and trodden, as in, you know, it works. Sex that just works for most people is really not interesting enough.

Right.

So, what does it mean it works generally? Right.

What about the people listening who are saying, Man, that sounds like a lot of work that every day you have to change, do something different and unique.

And be... Not every day. Not every day. Not every day, but what you can do every day is just a quick check with yourself. You know, is there something that I should notice? Is there something that I can be thankful for? Is there a little note that I could write? Is there, you know, just a way that I can show up? It's small, it's really small. Here's the thing. There is work and then there is the creative work. you know, I'm talking about a level that is creative and that elevates you and that actually gives you. You feel. You feel taller. You just feel like you're engaged. You feel awake rather than this. This is the other seated position. It's comfortable. It's great. But nothing happens here.

Sure.

This. This is alert. Here is the essential word is curiosity. When you're curious, you lean forward and you watch, you're open to the mysteries of life. This is, please don't bother me with anything, because I don't want any stimulation. I've had my share, you know. And this is the position that most people have at home. So when people say it's too much work, I basically say, look, you If I was to say this in your business, would you say this is too much work? Right. Or you would say, that's very good advice. This is high rate consulting fees.

Exactly.

It's like, Excuse me, but you don't think for a minute that your business would thrive if you let it languish like that. Never. You have a reward system. You have incentives.

Bonuses.

You have bonuses. But there is no incentivized system in the private domain. so people just think, why bother?

Right.

And that's the difference, is that the ones who have good relationships are the ones who created their own internal incentive is incentivized system.

What are some of those incentive systems that you've seen over time that really work or are effective for long-term relationships?

I would say the first thing is almost one of the first things that our parents teach you. Please and thank you. Do you know how many people stop? Thanking their partners. Thank you. Thank you for doing this for me. Thank you for picking up the shirts.

Thank you for, you know, making you feel appreciated.

Yes, appreciation. Appreciation is huge. Gratitude, acknowledgement of the presence of the other in your life. Not did you do this, did you call, did you pick up, do this, you know, half the time.

Expectations.

Expectations. Of course, you know, expectations is often a resentment in the make. It's like with the expectations, Negotiation comes the fear of it's not gonna tank person, first of all. And because it also makes it feel like this is not a given. Nobody owes you squat. You're not owed anything. You're not that important. You're actually quite replaceable.

Right.

And with the divorce rate that we.

Have, what's the rate at right now?

I dropped 50 on first and 65 on second.

65 on second. Wow.

It's not good, right? It's really, you know, it costs a lot of money. It's not good for the health. I mean, it's just like, you know, it's not good for the jobs. It's just, it's like, okay, now you could say maybe people should marry, but it doesn't matter if it's marriage legally or the idea is that we can do better. We can do better in general. I really think that the quality of our lives depends on the quality of our relationships. I mean, nobody is gonna write, you know, You worked 60, 70, 80, 90 hours a week. And, you know, no, they're gonna say he was there for people when they needed to. He was there at every game. He was there at the party. He's the guy who, when you were in his presence, he had charisma, not because he could stand in front of a huge crowd, but he had charisma because when I was in his presence, he made me feel special. It's a different charisma. So, appreciation. Gratitude, thank you. Little things to go out of your way rather than just to do the minimum. A lot of people start to do the bare minimum just so that they can't be scolded. Go an extra thing. On occasion just do something for the other person just because it matters to them even if you couldn't care less. Rather than I don't, it's not important to me, I don't need this or I don't care about this. Give each other a lot of individual space. Not everything needs to be shared. People have different passions, different interests, different friends, and they need those separate spaces to exist. Admiration, I think, is huge, because admiration is also that you kind of really see the otherness of the other person. Don't try to make your partner into one person for everything. There is no such a person. Find multiple sources of connection, of intimacy, of friendship, so that you can have a group of people support you and don't have one person who has to be there for you for everything, especially when you're in the dumpster.

We used to have a village of people to do that. Now we just expect one person to be the village, right?

Yes, yes, yes. One person for the whole village. That is a unique, and then we're upset when they don't fulfill the mandate.

When you have been through as you date and you go through relationships and you've been through betrayal and heartbreak and hurt and pain, you can become pretty cynical about love. And if you're not careful, that cynicism can really be a hindrance for you because you cannot be a cynic about love and expect to attract it at the same time.

Ooh, snap. That's true.

Yeah.

So how did you keep your heart open after going through breakups and maybe after, you know, challenging things happening in relationships where that hurt you? How did you stay open to love?

I had to reframe. my thoughts and ideas and my perspective about the past.

What did you think about them then?

I had to learn to allow the past to stay in the past. I didn't want someone to come into my life and I make them pay for something they had nothing to do with.

Yeah, that's tough.

In my past.

Yeah, that's tough.

And when I got married, who did I want my husband to be? This bitter, broken down woman who had been through the ringer in all these years and all these relationships? Or did I want him to meet someone who, because we're all, we're always in the process of healing. We're always in the process of growth and our emotional health. But did I want him to meet someone who was committed to that growth?

Yes.

And that process and going forward being committed to the same commitment, which is, which is what Really, success in marriage boils down to being committed to the same commitment. Because, you know, when I was younger, I thought it was about this involuntary feeling of love. And then as I got older, I realized it was a conscious decision to love.

It's not just, oh, I have this attraction to this person. I feel love towards them. It's a conscious decision.

Because you're not always going to feel love. You're going to go through ups and downs. and downs and peaks and valleys. And if it were about a feeling, you'd be all over the place emotionally. But yeah, it's about a decision. And so when I talk about earlier, when I talked about separating your feelings from the facts, that's what I mean. Like you're, you're going to have a range of emotions. But the fact is, you know, this is a person that I've committed my life to. Yeah, this is a person I've committed to grow with. This is a so I made all of these commitments to this person and then you go forward with that in mind.

Did you have fears around getting married?

I had a fear of the unknown.

Yeah.

What is marriage really like? You know, I see other people who are married, some of them happy, some of them not. Obviously, I see a lot of people getting divorced. So what is it about marriage? What makes it work? Do I know what makes it work? Do I have what it takes to make it work? So it was the fear of the unknown because I hadn't done it before. Marriage by nature changes you. It's the closest relationship you'll ever have. It's very different from the parent-child relationship, every other relationship.

Friends, everything, yeah.

I wondered how it would change me.

From being in a relationship and dating to then being married, what have been the biggest differences and changes.

Allowing someone to see me at my most vulnerable state.

Did you allow that during the dating process?

I allowed it to a certain extent, but I didn't live with my husband before we got married. That was a choice that we made.

Really?

We did not want to live together. And so when we got married and we moved in together, I had not lived with anyone since I was in college for 20 years.

Wow.

So again, it's that adjustment in life, just sharing my space with another human being every day.

You got married. Yeah. And you got married a week before the pandemic in 2020.

Yes.

March 8th, 2020. You said. So what was that? I mean, that takes a lot of guts to not live with someone beforehand in the modern world to not fully see the person who they are. So I commend you on that. So did you. What did you learn going through a pandemic for the last two years, getting married a week before, and then moving in together, and sharing a life during arguably one of the scariest, uncertain times in the last 20, 30 years?

Everything changed in the blink of an eye. We got married on March 8th in Los Angeles, big wedding, all of our family, all of our friends, hugging, high-fiving, kissing, had no idea. what was about to happen a week later. And I do look back on that day because I thought, you know, when we were talking about our wedding, do we wanna do something small? Do we wanna, you know, we ended up just inviting our people and everyone came out. And now I look back on that day and I cherish it so much.

Yeah, 'cause people haven't been able to do that for a couple years.

Right.

And I haven't seen a lot of those people since. So it just made those memories even more special. to us. But also, yes, a week later, the world shut down. So we decided to take a mini-moon. We were going to do a big honeymoon over the summer. So we just went to Newport Beach and we were there for a few days and we were in a bubble. We didn't know a lot about everything that was happening in the world until we came out of this bubble. So we came back to LA and I mean, there was no toilet tissue on the shelves. The grocery store, I mean, it was just empty. Everything was empty. I'd never seen anything like it before. And I was like, oh, so you mean to tell me I waited all this time to get married? And the world is about to end?

Wow.

It was crazy.

So what did you guys create? Did you guys come together and say, let's build a strong foundation during this time? Yes. Did you feel like it's made the relationship stronger?

Yeah, absolutely.

Has it been a stressful living with someone for the first time in 20 years? How have you navigated all?

We adapted really well and during that time we had every day and all that time to spend time together and the pandemic, you know, it challenged all of us in different ways, but it also presented us with an opportunity. And for us, it was noise cancellation headphones through the first few months of our marriage because we got to really sit and be together and be still and be quiet. You know, my husband is an R&B singer. He travels all over the world and he was leaving a week after we got married to start traveling again.

Not anymore.

Of course, that didn't happen. And so we got to spend a lot of quality time together. And I will tell you what I learned about him.

Yes.

What I talked about earlier, about when you see the true measure of a person and how they handle adversity and how they handle difficult circumstances. And because all of his, you know, live music was impacted greatly.

That's how you make most of your money?

Yeah.

And I never heard him complain, not even once. And I saw him be a source of encouragement to a lot of other of his artist and musician friends. And I mean, I was even shocked. I was like, okay, we're all about positivity and, you know, wake up happy every day, but really? You really wake up this happy every day.

Sure.

And it was inspiring to see. And I knew in those first few months that because you always, you know, love is about taking a risk.

Yeah.

You know, we talk about that fear because we're, it's a risk. There's a fear of being hurt again. There's a fear of those triggers being exposed again. And in that moment, I knew and I believed that I had made a right decision, but in those months after the pandemic, I saw it for myself very early on in my marriage, who my husband was, in stressful times, in difficult circumstances, and how he was a source of inspiration and strength for a lot of people, including me.

So were you, was each day kind of a confirmation that this was a great decision? Yes. I leaned into this.

Yes.

That's beautiful. Yes.

It's been two years of just this amazing time in my life because I used to get asked a lot why I was still single for so long and I started to feel pressure from people. I never put the pressure on myself and I know a lot of people perhaps do, but if you're not careful when you're single and people are asking you, well, I don't understand why aren't you married or what's going on, you can start to internalize it and feel that there's something something wrong with you or that there's something off within you. And it can almost be something that you become embarrassed by because people are asking you as if you've missed some mark in your life, some milestone that you should have achieved by now. Not asking me if it was a desire of mine, by the way, if I wanted to, but just asking me, why wasn't I?

And why do you think people care so much about other people? being in a relationship or being single?

Well, the question, I think, speaks more to who they are than it ever did to who I was, because I was okay. You know, there were lessons that I had to learn to get to the place where I could go into a successful marriage. I needed to learn those lessons. There are almost 8 billion people on this planet. We can't all be doing the same things at the same time, and we're not supposed to be. We're all supposed to be living our individual life paths and our individual life journeys. There are some people who don't think that. They think you need to be married by a certain age, you need to have children by a certain age, or you're not living the right path. It's just not true. It's not a race. Why is it not a race? Because we're not all running in the same direction. So I learned very early on, and I think living in New York actually helped with that because I was around so many other young professionals who were at the top of their games and their careers, and we were you know, Saturday night, we're here Wednesday night, we're at a show and the live music and everything and just embracing our full lives and accepting that being single was not a rest stop for me until I met my husband and really got to live. Well, if I had done that, I wouldn't have lived until I was 42 years old. So what would I have done with all those years in my 20s and 30s? So it wasn't a rest stop. And I embraced that that time of and just did so many. I traveled all around the world by myself, solo, went to all the restaurants that I wanted to go to, watching Sex in the City. Sometimes I would go by myself. You know, I had this vibrant group of friends. I was not waiting to live my life. And I think that people, they project their own view of what they think life should be onto you. And so it's our job as individuals to again, reframe our perspective and mindset and make a decision for ourselves that we're going to live our own life path.

The women who are watching or listening at home that just want to find their match, their partner, what's the first step they can take to start getting out of the weeds of, like, failure after failure and start seeing some progress to Greater potential matches or a couple of things.

I mean, firstly, there's a guy called John Kay who wrote a book called obliquity. And the whole idea of the book was obliquity is when you reach goals through indirect means. So if you take building a business, you're far more like if your goal is to make money, instead of focusing on making money, focus on all the things that provide value to people. Yeah, because the making money part will be the byproduct. Right. If you focus on I need to get rich, I need to get rich, I need to get rich, you're probably not going to do the things that are going to get you rich. Right. Because what makes you financially wealthy, the relationships you take time to build, that often for a long time, you don't ask for anything, you don't even care to, you're just building you, you know, the products that you create for no reason, then you just think that they're great or that you think they have value or Whatever the service that you provide people, it's just it's not what's the quickest way for me to make money? Most people like that don't get rich, right? In a relationship, there's all these things that build a relationship that really have nothing to that don't feel like they have anything to do with a relationship. Like who would say knowing what you would do with the next 10 hours of your life if it was free is actually going to be a huge determinant of the health of your relationship. It's like one's over here and one's over here. Shouldn't we be talking about how to have better sex? Shouldn't we be talking about how to communicate well with my partner? No, we're talking about you being an independently attractive, purpose-driven, independent person who is attractive just to watch from afar because of the life you lead. That's going to lead to a much better relationship. By the way, even that will lead to better sex. 'Cause your partner looks at you and it's like, this person is more attracted. This is a person. This isn't just an extension of me. This is a person. So it's the indirect things that contribute. And so let's now take that to the single place. I'm single. What do I do next? Understand and study, and this is a big part of what I do in my work. So I'd encourage people to come check that out. Study the things that contribute to getting you a relationship that often have nothing to do with getting a relationship. The things you do with your spare time. Do I, you know, do I do, if I want to learn yoga, do I do it on my own at home with a YouTube video? Learning yoga, by the way, on its own could be a good thing just because it makes you more interesting. You have more to talk about. You feel confident in yourself, all of that. But Okay, now let me do a more sociable version of that. Let me go into a class where I might actually have the chance of meeting other people. Maybe they're not men, maybe they're other single women, but other single women are useful too. Another indirect variable, because you have more single friends or more fun friends, more charismatic friends, friends who come knocking at your door going, Hey, we're going out. Get out of your goddamn pajamas.

We're going out, right? That person is going to be great for your love life.

Makes you more desirable, how much value. And makes you leave the house. Instead of staying in every weekend, makes you leave and go to places where people are. You know, the books you read, who would say the books you read have anything to do with your relationship, but they do on a date when you have shit to talk about.

Absolutely.

Right? So there's all these factors. Now, the reason I'm saying that, because of course there are direct factors, but my programs in my company, which by the way, people could go to howtogettheguy.com to go and find all of these, But the programs I have there are about very direct things like how to flirt, how to meet someone, how to do this, how to do that. But that's one piece of it, right? It's I encourage people to do all those indirect things and then someone can't say, I'm just sick of going out. I give up. On what? On what? Like someone said that to me in a seminar and said, I just feel like giving up.

Tell me what on yourself, on life?

What are you giving up on? I want to hear this. Tell me, what are you giving up on? Well, I don't... Meeting people? Meeting people? Would you not meet people? If someone said you can never find the love of your life, that's off the table. Would you really stop meeting people? Your need for a human interaction would disappear? I don't think so. You'd stop flirting with people? that's part of your character. Being flirtatious is a part of who we are at times. So why would we lose that? Being sexual? Would you really lose that? You're gonna stop being sexual just because the end result isn't coming? I don't buy it. You stop doing hobbies, you'd stop getting out there. All the things that you have to get rid of to say I'm done with relationships are things that would absolutely erode your life, even if you take the relationship out of the equation.

Yeah.

So I think people have to. I understand. I know there is a terrific level of, like, dating burnout right now. And if you're out there feeling that right now, I. I urge you to think about this differently and to say, I don't have to constantly have it in my mind. I'm trying to meet someone. I'm trying to meet someone. I'm trying to meet someone. That game gets boring. And now when you go on a date and it doesn't go anywhere, you're a failure.

And you're exhausted, yeah.

I'm done. See it as life. This isn't dating, it's life. It's meeting people. It's experiencing a great conversation. Having a fun moment of interaction, of flirtation. Doing things you want to do anyway. Doing hobbies you want to do anyway. Because there will be enrich your experience of life. All of those things are really important. You don't have to call it dating. Just go live.

It's kind of like the analogy you said about running a business. If you're focused on I need the relationship, whereas like I need to make a certain amount of money is getting the relationship as opposed to why don't I add value to the world and I'll attract the customers that will pay me and I'll make some money.

Because I need to make money focuses on things things that make the short-term economics work.

Yeah.

And those things are generally not good for a business. That's it. All right. Same in. Same in love.

I want to ask you a couple final questions. This just came to me. I don't think I've ever asked anyone this, but since you're the love guy, I'm gonna go there. Typically, I would ask the three truths question, which is, what are your three truths? If it was the last day of your but I'm going to ask you a different spin on this. Imagine it's the last day of your life and you've been in a committed, compatible, loving relationship with the woman of your dreams for the last 30, 40, 50, whatever years. And you've been a part of this journey and experience where you've built this incredible castle with all of its dents and wears and tears and love and magic and unicorns and everything. And it's your last day and you've got a, lights are gonna go off and you're not gonna be on this world anymore. And your partner has one more day to live. Hypothetical. You're 150 years old.

Your partner has one more day to live.

Your partner has one more day to live. Let's screw that. Your partner has a few more years to live. She's gonna live a little longer than you. And you get to write three things, a love letter to your partner, about the three things you loved about her the most. That brought you the most joy, the most incredible life from this relationship that you built together. What would you say or write to her are the three things you love the most about this woman? That she would remember and go on for a few more years afterwards.

That would be specific to a relationship, right? To a specific person?

To that relationship, yeah. To that person and the relationship. Imagine the relationship is everything you could ever dream of. Got it. You created the relationship of your dreams. It's the golden standard for the world. to look at a relationship and say, wow, they lived it.

They did it.

They loved. They went through it. They were vulnerable. It wasn't perfect. But, man, this couple is the golden standard.

Man. Okay.

What would you say are the three things? So I want you to go there because I believe you're going to create that in the relationship that you want to create. What are the three things you would write a love letter to your your wife on your last day about the three things you appreciated the most about the love you created together. That.

Maybe one would be your, you made me feel safe enough to be the best I could possibly be. You know, you. Your love made me feel so secure, gave me such a platform to go and make an impact in the world on that. That, you know, and I. Don't get me wrong, I think we should have our internal security, but I felt so secure in the relationship. that this gave me, this relationship gave me the energy to go out there and do amazing things with that energy. So I made a bigger impact in the world because of the energy that your love gave me.

I'm getting chills already. This makes me emotional just thinking about it.

See if I have anywhere to go from there.

So safety, security.

That you... you made me feel like I wasn't alone in the world. And I don't just mean because we had each other. You can feel very lonely in a relationship, especially if you don't feel seen. But you find someone who sees you. who really gets you. And all of a sudden you don't feel so alone in the world because life is lonely. You can have tons of people around you but there's a certain existential loneliness that many people feel in life that for moments or times evaporates when you feel a true connection with someone and you see each other. You go, Wow, that to me is transcendent. So your ability to see me made me feel less alone in the world. And I guess you were a role model for me. Through observing you and seeing the way you live and seeing the way you approach things. that there were so many times where I noticed you were better than me. And that taught me how to be better. It taught me how to, I grew because I saw the way you were.

Wow.

And that showed me, no matter where I thought I was, being around you showed me. how wonderful people can be. And that made me want to be more wonderful. I guess those would be some of the things.

That's a beautiful love letter. What's the letter you would write to yourself? You're 200 years old. It's the last day still. And you write a letter to your 32-year-old self. 32 now?

31, 32 in a couple of weeks.

You write a letter to your 32-year-old self and say, One piece of advice, looking back at what you'd say to yourself on how to become the best partner to create that magical relationship.

One thing I would say, looking back at myself, saying, Here's a piece of advice to being...

Here's what you need to do to become that partner. with that, with that other person. Here's what you need to let go of. Here's what you need to step into. Here's where your ego needs to take a check.

I think. How many things do I get?

Give yourself a few.

Let's do. Let's do a couple. I I think I always loved just the idea of, you question everything, you know? Yeah. Don't. That thing that you take for granted that you're right about. you know, question everything because it's, I mean, it's just amazing to me the things I look back on now and I no longer agree with what the 23 year old version of me thought, the 25 year old version of me thought. And I think understanding that, at least we're not very good at thinking about all the ways we might be wrong today, but we're really good at knowing the ways we were wrong before, right?

More.

That's, you know, if you think of a lot of self-improvement people, right? Gurus, leaders, whatever. Yeah. People want to call themselves. They struggle. They're very good at telling stories of how they up. Ah, five years ago or 10 years ago.

But now you should have seen me then.

But not many people are good at talking about today.

Yeah.

And I think that that's a kind of blind. spot we are, most of us have in life, people in general. And I think if we can apply that thing of oh yeah, God, I was so wrong about that five years ago. I was so, I couldn't be more wrong about that. And I know that now. We should apply that to the next five years too.

Yeah.

You know, in the next 10 years and say there's a lot of shit I'm gonna look back on five years from now and say God, I did not know what I was talking about. That doesn't mean we should not trust ourselves on anything. you know, there's. I've heard it said, you know, strong opinions loosely held. You know, it doesn't mean we shouldn't be passionate about what we think now, but it does mean we should leave room for questioning. And to that end, I think I would tell myself to. To be kinder to myself over the course of my life for things that I'd. Mistakes I'd made within relationships. I have definitely, I have definitely been the person and even today have to wrestle with making, doing something that I know, that wasn't the best reaction to that. I wish I'd have handled that differently. I wish I'd have said a different thing. I wish I'd have phrased that differently. I wish I didn't say that. And then really, really beating myself up for it.

Yeah.

You know, not letting it go. Even after you've finished the argument, even after you get to the other side.

Holding on to it, yeah.

Continuing to berate yourself for it. And the shame about that is that it lacks humanity. It makes us forget that we're human and that we don't get everything right. And the only way we're gonna get more right is by making certain mistakes and learning from them. It's true. And it also stops us from being effective because that energy that we're putting into berating ourselves is actually stopping us from doing the very things that would move everything forward from that mistake. It doesn't make relationships better. Mistakes actually make relationships better very often.

Because you learn or hopefully you'll learn.

You learn. Those things, they really can transform mistakes can transform relationships, but not if you sit there consistently dwelling on them. They make relationships better if you can improve from them and move on and be the thing you want to be now. So I think I would tell myself to be kinder to myself for mistakes, to not obsess over things I should have said or done differently. Yeah. You know what? To that end, we should, halfway through this interview, I was kept losing my train of thought. And probably you were going to edit that out to be kind to me.

I'm gonna keep it in.

Let's keep it in.

All right. Because, like, don't beat yourself up over it.

Give people the real. yeah, Matthew Huss, he's really eloquent. Oh, look at the way he could string a thought together. Well, I lost. I lost my train of thought three or four times. I don't know what happened. I don't know what happened. I. I couldn't think of the thing I was going to say next. I kept. Kept blanking. Okay, show people that. That's. That's inspiring.

Yeah.

Oh, if Matthew Huss can be in the middle of an interview and just go completely blank and not know what the hell he was saying. Yeah, then what am I worried about? Yeah, that's more interesting and that's you know, that's a real relationship. Yeah, real relationship that's that's the real stuff that's the stuff we're not seeing when we see other people's relationships and everything things are great and everything no, this is like if we want to if we want to change our world forget the world for a moment because it's always seems a bit grandiose when we talk about changing the world but changing our world Let's bring in the real because that genuinely changes things. You know what makes relationships better? True realness, vulnerability, people living their truth, people being more real, being more upfront, more direct. You know what makes you more attractive on a date? Being more real. Not going there. You people worry about their hair and is this all right? Tell a real story on the day. That's what's gonna you want to talk about deep attraction, not surface level bullshit. Deep surface level bullshit is in 2D on Instagram. Deep attraction, the kind of attraction that gets relationships comes from real stories. Real shared experiences. And if you want, and if you do want to change other people's worlds, as you know, because you're so good at it, it's bring people the real.

I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus Channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you if no one has told you lately that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.