The Auschwitz Survivor Who Chose Freedom | Dr. Edith Eger

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Hey everyone, it's Lewis Howes. And before we dive in, I want to take a quick moment. We are sharing this conversation as a memorial because we lost one of the most extraordinary human beings I've ever had the privilege of sitting across from. Dr. Edith Eger, a Holocaust survivor, a healer, and a woman who has spent most of her time helping other people become free. She survived things that most of us cannot even imagine. And instead of carrying hatred, instead of carrying bitterness, she chose love. She chose forgiveness. And most importantly, she chose freedom. So today, we're here to honor her by sharing her words with you one more time, or maybe for the first time, And if that's you, I want you to know that you are about to hear something that could genuinely transform your life. For me, this episode is a gift, and she is and was a gift. Dr. Edith Eger, thank you for everything you gave this world. You will never be forgotten.

Well, what would you like people to know about you and how would you want to be remembered?

I'd like to be known as someone who did everything in her power, everything, to see to it that it will never happen again. I'm into prevention.

Yeah.

I don't ask why me, I say what now? Why is a past-oriented world a problem-oriented world? I like to deal with the present, and think young. So when a man takes me out and is trying to figure out how old am I, I'm gonna ask him to take me home. Because if he's into numbers, he's not my man.

What should he be into?

I think he would be interested in, uh, perhaps, uh, What really gives me joy?

What is that?

Joy in my heart. Like, I have joy knowing that I have 3 children, I have 5 grandchildren, and 7 grand— great-grandsons.

All sons, great-grandsons?

All sons, no girls. Yeah, so I think it's good to really know that many people ask me, "Write a book, write a book, write a book," and I would say automatically, "I have nothing to say." Yeah. I have nothing to say. I have a lot to say. Yeah. And so do you.

Mm-hmm.

And you're committed. To really change the people who don't think that they matter. Because there'll never be another you.

Right.

You're one of a kind. Diamond. I see it in your eyes. You know? You're very precious.

Thank you.

You're very, very precious. And I know many people probably have changed because they knew that what they're doing now, they are revolving, not evolving.

Mm-hmm. What does that mean, revolving, not evolving?

Revolving, that you go back and do the same thing over and over again and expect different results.

Right, repeating the same pattern.

Which is the definition of—

Insanity.

Insanity, yeah. Someone said that.

Was it Einstein, I think, right?

Yeah. Einstein. I think it was Einstein. Yeah.

I'm curious, now you have 7 grandsons, right?

Right.

7 grandsons. I think, are the 2 twins, the 2-year-olds, are those the youngest grandsons you have?

They're the youngest, yeah.

So there's 93 years-ish between you and your youngest grandsons.

Exactly. And they come with their head because they know I'm gonna kiss it.

I love that.

So they just come and bring their little head.

They just bring it as you kiss it.

I don't know other people who kiss that head.

That's beautiful. That's great.

But I do.

I'm curious, what is the, you know, they at this moment, they don't know the type of life you've had, right? Not until they're a little older will they understand the stories and hear the stories about your whole experience from what, you know, their great-grandmother went through and how you overcame so many challenges and obstacles and how you became a member of society for hope and inspiration. I'm curious, if you could share 3 lessons with them to set them up for their life, what would those 3 lessons be?

I probably would tell them that I will never forget what happened. I don't know what it means to overcome. I don't think I— I don't know exactly what that means, but I came to terms with it. I call it my cherished wound.

Cherished wound.

Yes. I cherish the wound. That I learned in the classroom of Auschwitz.

How does someone learn to cherish their wounds? If something is so tragic and so traumatic.

You don't appreciate what you have until we lose it.

Mm-hmm.

See, if you take me out to dinner, and you might do that, take me out to lunch. Yeah. I think I'm gonna eat up my food and then I'm gonna pick up your leftovers. And if I don't do that, I'll take it home. I never waste any food.

Wow.

I never leave food on my plate or in your plate. I do something with it. And I give it away.

You know, why do you do that?

One time I had a party and I had a lot of leftovers, and I went out and I, I saw someone at the corner waiting, and I gave them the food.

Why do you— why is that something you do?

I thought, you know, they must be hungry. Yeah, but they didn't want food, they wanted money. So they threw it back at me. I don't want your goddamn food. Give me money. Right. Yeah.

What's another thing you would share with your grandkids, your great-grandkids?

Well, right now they're too young to listen to anything, but my great-grandson, Ara, 15, 12, and 10. And they're very interested in grandma. And I'm very interesting person to be with. I have a lot to say. And not what happened, it's what you do with it.

Right. I think the coming to terms with the cherished wound, it's like creating meaning around what happened. Right.

Exactly, the existential vacuum. Viktor Frankl used to refer to that, and it's very important to know that it's not clinical depression.

Why do people get that confused?

Yeah, well, I had two paraplegics, both coming from Vietnam, same symptomatology, same diagnosis. Okay. And one of them was in a kind of a fetal position. Why me? How could anyone do this to me? Blaming God, blaming you name it, the country, of course. Conversely, the other one said to me, same symptomatology, same diagnosis, same prognosis. He said to me, "Hey, Doc." I was wearing a white coat and he said, Dr. Eger, Department of Psychiatry.

Uh-huh.

Okay. He says, "Hey, Doc, I'm so grateful that I sit in a wheelchair because I can reach my children much closer." Oh my goodness. "Can you believe it? And I can reach the flowers much closer." And I felt like the biggest imposter. Because I had a 16-year-old in me that I ran away from. I really wasn't qualified to take them further because I have not taken myself.

Wow.

You know, I went to school and I went to school and, you know, I became Dr. Edith Iwaiga, but I never really did the work.

Really?

The healing work? So I went back to Auschwitz.

When did you go back?

I asked my sister to come with me, probably in the '70s or '80s. And she told me I'm an idiot. And that was the end of that, my sister coming with me. And I went alone. And today the work I do to revisit the places where you've been to relive that experience, but then you revise your life.

Mm-hmm. Relive the experience and then revise your life.

Exactly.

Rewrite the story.

It's not going back. It's a new beginning.

Oh, wow. So when you went there, what opened up for you? What did you— did you feel a lot of sadness and pain, or is that where you started to rewrite it?

I was angry and I didn't know what to do. With anger. I ran from it, but I was angry. I was mad as hell, and I had to find a way to turn depression into expression.

What happens if we continue to run from anger in our lives?

We just build it up. It doesn't go away.

You can't run away from it.

You cannot run away. It's better to face it, not fight it or run from it. No. So I did go back to Auschwitz. And today the work I do, that yes, I hold your hand and we visit your little room, your little home, the hallway, and you're holding my hand. I'm taking you out of there. Wow. Because that was then and this is now. And you can find that little boy in you, the little girl in you, and buy him an ice cream cone. And because that little boy is crying.

What happens if we never revisit the little boy or girl inside of us?

We have unresolved grief.

Wow.

And I think that's what therapy is. Wow. It's all grief work. Not what happened, what didn't happen.

Right.

Because I remember when my granddaughter asked me to buy her a beautiful dress, which I am very good at, buying good dresses, so she could go to Bishop School to a dance.

Uh-huh.

And I come home and out of the blue, I'm crying. The word understand, I didn't understand. What's the matter with me? I just bought little precious Lindsay a beautiful dress. I think it was a Laura Ashley original. And— but I realized that I'm not crying because Lindsay is going to the dance. I cried because I never went to a dance. So I think the unresolved grief is important to make peace with.

So when something like that happened for you or happens in any of our lives, what can we do to face it? And I have a photo on my phone of myself when I was younger, right?

Find that little boy.

Exactly. To go back into those places that were wounded and have a conversation. And I talk to him and I reflect and I go back.

And you can see the feeling. Yeah. Rather than talk about the feeling.

Let him feel it.

What we do in America, we're hearing but maybe not listening. It's very good to repeat what you hear and they tell you whether it is true or false. I think it's very important to write your book.

So you said Anger is something that's not the primary emotion. It's not the primary one. So when someone feels anger, what is it they really feel?

Fear.

Afraid of what?

Um, fear of being found out that your true self—

is it fear of being found out your true self is not lovable or not enough, or you're never going to amount to anything, or it's never going to—

no one's going to accept that you're a fake. Oh, wow.

Do you think everyone feels that way at some point in life?

I think it's very seldom that a person never regresses anything. I think it's important to acknowledge that you say to yourself, "If I knew then what I know now," I could have done things differently.

Right.

And that's it. That's the end of that.

That's it.

That's it.

But why do we hold on to the pain so long? And why do we shame ourselves and beat ourselves up emotionally? Because we didn't have the knowledge when we were 5 or 10 or 16 or 20.

Maybe we didn't have good role models.

Mm-hmm.

That it's okay to feel any feelings without the fear of being judged. There is no right feeling or wrong feeling. There is only my feeling.

Yeah.

And underneath of anger is fear. So it's very good to write down all your fears from the least anxiety-producing to the most anxiety. And then we knock them down because you were not born with fear. You were born with love, joy, and passion for life.

Mm-hmm. I love that you say this because I feel like I'm full of passion. You are. You're feisty. You're fine. I like it.

Yes, sir.

I love this idea of writing down your fears and then knocking them down.

Knock them down because you were not born with them. You learned it. What—

when did you start to knock down your fears? How old were you roughly?

I think I was 16 in Auschwitz, and I developed inside something that I cherish today. My inner resources that I don't look at life from outside in, and I give up my need for other people's approval.

You did that when you were 16?

I did that.

Wow. You gave up your need for other people's approval then?

Exactly.

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What does that do for you when you give up the need?

It give me my true self.

Your authentic expressive self.

Yes. That I am my own good mommy to me.

Yes.

And then I ask, is this empowering me or depleting me?

Mm-hmm.

If I'm gonna have alcohol, I'm messing with my brain.

So you're not going to do something to try to look good in front of others and try to make others like you.

What the neighbors think about us, yes.

Right. Wow.

I think very important for children, especially for the father, to be a good role model to the children, the way he treats the children's mother, his wife. Mm-hmm.

How should the father treat the mother specifically?

Never raise your voice. When you're angry in English, you start the sentence with "you." You are stupid. You. When you hear "you," you're going to be dumbed down and you say to yourself, the longer they talk, The more relaxed I become. You take the negative stimuli, turn it immediately into something positive. I think there is a Mexican psychiatrist who wrote a little book that is very valuable, and it's called The Four Agreements.

So good. Don't take anything personally.

Don't take it personally.

It's so powerful. How does someone learn to not take it personally if someone's saying you did this and you're stupid and you're— How do you learn to just be peaceful around them?

I know better. That's what you think. And this is what I feel. And men are not taught to feel the feelings. They talk about the feeling, they analyze the feeling, they medicate the feeling rather than just feeling the feeling. The feeling. A good cry, what comes out of your body will never make you ill. What stays in there does. Like posture, you know, you have to get it out.

So that's how—

scream it out.

Scream it out.

In the car.

In a pillow.

Scream.

Yeah.

Cry and then laugh like a hyena. And you feel better.

Laugh like a hyena?

Yeah.

Get it out, shake it out.

Shake it out.

How should a wife be around her husband with her kids?

So what is happening, the husband comes home and the wife already knows just by looking at him that there is something going on. But she doesn't say anything because he doesn't say anything either. Because he's scared. If he's gonna say something, things are gonna get worse.

She's scared.

She's scared. They're both scared. But they don't really sit down, which I do really to make them really see what's really going on. But down the line, if they don't do that, They will miss passion in life for sure. I don't know what else right now to think of. Passion, joy, joy and passion for sure.

Yeah.

So if you want joy and passion, have a fight, but pay attention how you finish a fight.

How should you finish the fight?

That's right. That you can agree to disagree. That not I'm right, you're wrong. I'm good, you're bad. None of that.

Yeah.

We're human. We do make mistakes and we have a good talk about it and hopefully learn from it so we won't repeat it.

Right, right. And you worked with Viktor Frankl too, right? Didn't you work with him?

I worked with Viktor Frankl very much. I remember we were in Germany and we danced together.

You danced together?

Yes.

Was he a good dancer?

And he said something, "Is this the last tango?" I think it was Regensburg or one of those places where we had our conference. Viktor Frankl was like you, a kind of a Renaissance man. He was taking flying lessons. When I met him, he was in his 70s. Wow. He died when he was 92.

Mm-hmm.

But he was truly my mentor.

What was your biggest lessons from him that he taught you?

The Logotherapy. Logo means finding purpose and meaning in your life. It's called the existential vacuum that most people are called clinical depression. Nok.

What is clinical depression, a thing, or is there a way to get out of it without medication?

Yeah, well, we pathologize. We pathologize too much. I think it's very good to make the diagnosis that doesn't have to pathologize, like I'm sad, I'm scared, you know, to use the language that it doesn't have to go to diagnosis and medical. Medicine is important, you know, we have our blood, And that needs to be hopefully very tended to.

Yeah.

We have our environment, but the way you respond to the other too. I have a choice to respond or react. When you react, you don't think.

How does someone learn how to pause when there's an event, when there's a trigger?

Take a deep breath. And if that doesn't work, take another deep breath.

Keep breathing until you react.

Keep breathing. Because you cannot change what's outside of you.

The environment, the event, what occurs.

You really are very powerless. But you have power to be You choose to take the negative and turn it into positive. Because suffering makes you stronger. Suffering is part of life.

Mm-hmm. Is there a way to minimize suffering in our lives?

You learn from history so you won't repeat it. Yes. That's why it's good to write a book. I write a book. People told me for years, "Write a book, write a book." And I would say, "I have nothing to say, I have nothing to say." But then Philip Zimbardo one morning calls me and says, "You know, Edie, the people who survived and are famous, are all men. We need a female voice. And that's my book, The Choice.

Right.

A female voice of Viktor Frankl.

Wow, that's beautiful. You mentioned, I wanna ask you about the fears again, writing down a list of your fears and then knocking them down. What happens internally when we start to knock these fears down and we over—

You replace it with something else. See, when you're in a car and you have to switch gears, you know, it talks to you, the car. So what you need to do is switch gears and release the clutch. What are you holding on to? My definition of love is the ability to let go. Let go. Don't live in the past. You cannot change the past. That's one thing you cannot change, is the past. I don't live in the past. I don't forget it or overcome it. That's why I call it my cherished wound, because part of me was left in Auschwitz, but not the better part, not the bigger part.

How do you reclaim that part from that?

You go back to that place and you can do it in your office with a Gestalt chair. Put them in that chair, tie them up and beat them up.

Sure.

Yeah. Wow. How could you do this to me? I was only 8 years old, you know, and you get it out, scream it out and beat them up.

If we don't get that emotion out, then we're the ones that suffer, right?

Yeah, because forgiveness has nothing to do with me forgiving you for what you did to me. I don't have any godly power at all. But I do have a power to look at everything that happened into an opportunity, for an opportunity. And that was Auschwitz, the biggest classroom, the most important one I have gone to. Wow.

So do we need to forgive the person that created the pain? Do we need to forgive ourselves? What is harder?

I think we create a time when I give you— myself permission. That's a very good word. Give myself permission. To let go of the pain and replace it with self-love, which is self-care, which is not narcissistic. Love yourself is not narcissistic. Yeah.

So give yourself, give myself permission to let go of the pain from the past.

Permission is a key word.

And then replace it with self-love.

You know, if I could meet Dr. Mengele now, I really wanted to meet him and I found out where he was, but I never really ended up meeting him in person. He went to South America. Most of the Nazis went through the, the Roman Catholics somehow helped them to go through, them to go to South America.

Yeah. What would you have said to him if you could have met him? What would you have said to him?

I would probably tell him, I have no idea what I would have done if I would have been in your shoes. 'You must have felt very powerful sending my mother to the gas chamber.' Because he asked me, 'Is this your sister or is this your mother?' I still want to cry when now, that stupidly I said, 'It's my mother,' because I could not forgive myself that if I would have said, 'My sister,' she wouldn't have gone to the gas chamber. But then I had to recognize that I did what I could.

You did the best.

And I did the best I could. So forgiving yourself and not to judge yourself, you got to You got to really truly do the work.

Yeah. That's powerful. I'm curious.

Suffering is make you stronger.

How much of a—

Don't ask for it.

I don't want suffering.

Please.

You don't need to ask for it. It's not a must, no. No, no, no, but it makes you strong.

But when it happens, recognize that it's temporary.

Yes, yes.

And you can survive it. So you become your own good parent. Yes. Are you a good parent to you?

Uh-huh, now I am. Yeah. After a lot of the healing work.

Yeah.

Now I'm a very good parent to myself. Yeah. I feel a lot of peace inside.

Very good.

And I didn't feel that for years. Yeah.

You say what you live.

Mm-hmm, yeah.

That's good.

Yeah, it's a constant journey, you know.

Congratulations.

Thank you. Thank you.

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But a lot of your, you know, the first time I interviewed you, I was really inspired by how you shared so much wisdom about how to not take things personally and how to reinterpret when someone's saying something to you. Just say, "Well, I actually—" You're saying the opposite to yourself of like how you love yourself and how you're generous and kind. So I really appreciate that.

You know, just a very simple question. Whatever you're doing now, you ask, "How is it working for you?" Yeah. Is it empowering you or depleting you? Mm-hmm.

And I'm curious about potential, you know, the potential that each one of us has as human beings. Yes. How much of our potential is limited or blocked or shut down if we do not learn to heal the different traumatic moments of our life? Can we still reach our potential if we don't face trauma? Or is it going to be limited?

I think we're going to be chronic victims. And every time you are a victim, you're going to find a victimizer. Or you fluctuate between victim, becoming victimizer. And it's very important to think about What you're gonna say before you say it, whether it's important, whether it's necessary, and whether it's kind. If it's not kind— Is it important?

Is it necessary? Is it kind?

It's kind. Yeah. If it's not kind, you're just not gonna say it.

Don't say it. How do we create a life where we don't become victims, where we are empowered no matter what happens? Even if there is something that occurs in life, an event that feels like we are a victim, how do we turn it so that we aren't a victim? Because I feel like being a victim is disempowering.

You cannot be a victim without the victimizer. If you're a victim, you're always going to find a victimizer. Or you fluctuate between victim and— because victims are weak and victimizers are strong. So part of the psyche will identify with the aggressor. That's what we call Stockholm Syndrome.

Mm-hmm. Is there moments in life where we should be victims? Or is it never a good time to be a victim? I think, I—

Does anything good come of it? I never see myself that my identity would be being a victim. I have no room for that in my life. I'm not a victim. I was victimized. It's not who I am. It's what was done to me. Very different. Very different. The term is "Erminescent." Right. Because yesterday's victims can easily become today's victimizers.

Mm-hmm, that's true.

I'm sure you know a great deal about that.

Mm-hmm. Tell me. Well, I mean, I was— I don't know if you know this, but I was sexually abused when I was 5 years old. By a man that I didn't know, a babysitter's son, and he was probably 16, 17. And I've talked about this many times on my show, but for 25 years I was angry about it. I held on to the anger, the frustration, you know, and I wanted to get back at people, and I wanted to— I always felt like there was an abuse happening to me, like people were abusing me in life. That was kind of the wound that I didn't heal. And when I started the healing journey 10 years ago, I really allowed myself to let that go and forgive myself and forgive— go through the rage, all of it.

Yeah, I mean, it was a process. You cannot forgive without going through the rage.

I went through it. Yeah. And, um, and when I thought about it, I was like, okay, well, Maybe this child, maybe this—

If you go to therapy, ask your therapist to sit on you.

To sit on me?

Yeah, and don't let you get up. You have to fight your way up and— Get them off of you. Give it to him, yeah. But good, yeah. To get that thing.

Get it out, yeah.

There is a difference between revenge and forgiveness. Yes. Revenge gives you a satisfaction. Momentarily. Very momentarily. Beautifully said. Forgiveness gives you freedom. So I had to go back to Auschwitz, to that lion's den, and look at the lion in the face to reclaim my innocence. To assign the shame and guilt to the perpetrator. Not on yourself.

No.

Yeah. No more. I'm free.

Did you feel free from that moment forward, or did you have to go back a few times and really let it out more?

I think it's a lifelong process. Yeah. Really, I didn't have to go back to Auschwitz. No, not at all. One of the things I was asked by physicians, which was interesting, have I ever saw birds in Auschwitz? Ever saw birds? I never saw birds in Auschwitz. Why is that? I guess the smell birds are probably pick up. The terrible smell. Wow.

How long were you there for again? Do you remember?

I was there from May until December. That's a long time. Yes. You know, my daughter called me from Auschwitz and she said, "I'm wearing a fur coat, I'm wearing boots, and I'm freezing.

What did you do, Mom?" Oh my gosh.

I didn't have any boots, I didn't have any fur coat. I had a little flimsy little something and I did what I needed to do.

How did you keep your spirit strong enough to survive? That it's temporary. You told yourself this is temporary?

I don't like it, it's inconvenient. And don't say, but, and it's temporary. Because after all, it is temporary. Yeah. I don't know where we're going from here. Wow. Maybe I'm gonna meet my mom and— You see what I miss? That I never had a mother-daughter talk.

Like, I mean, after that?

Well, when you get married, you talk to your mother about sex, about money, about in-laws, God knows what else.

You didn't have any of those conversations?

Any of those conversations I didn't have.

What do you wish your mom would have told you?

It's just for me not to fake anything. To be my true self. You know, my mother told me that, "I'm glad you have brains because you have no looks." You know that? And so I became a very erudite person. I had my own book club. I read The Interpretation of Dreams by Freud. When I was 14. Yeah, very different than nowadays. Children are not really as curious. I was always very curious. What's gonna happen next? Where I'm gonna go from here? You're very curious, and I think the curiosity helped me to survive. Wow, the curiosity. The curiosity.

Well, I'm glad I'm a curious person then. You know, I'm always asking questions and very curious.

Wonderful. Sometimes you're Jewish, you know, you ask a question and you answer it with a question. Right. How are you? Well, how do you think I am?

I like that. So something happened this weekend and you were contemplating whether you wanted to come here. Yeah. And we got a message yesterday that you weren't going to come, but then you did want to come. Yeah. And I'm so sorry for your loss about your sister. Thank you. From this weekend. And I want to know why you wanted to come here after your sister's passing this weekend.

To bring you my true self. That I'm grieving and feeling and healing. Yeah. My sister is with me. The spirit never dies. And I hope I'll be happy in my deathbed. And I'm not gonna ask what the world has given me. But you and I are going to probably ask, how can I contribute to the world that makes us human beings getting together? And see how we can empower each other with our differences. You can be you and I can be I. Right. And just empower each other. You do it your way, I do it my way.

When we think about the perspective of what will the world give me versus what can I bring to the world and to humanity, Yes. Why do some people think, "What will the world give me?" And what is the trap behind thinking that way versus, "How can I be of service to the world?" Well, there are givers and takers.

And hopefully I am a giver. And I will do less blaming. And pushing myself for more and more and more. You know, I just do the best I can and that's good enough. Yeah. Good enough is good enough.

Have you been blaming for a while?

I have been maybe rough on myself that I could do more than I'm doing. But I am forgiving myself that I give and do the best I can do. I do get up in the morning and I look at life as one day. The morning sunshine will not come back. And I'm very comfortable at 95, hoping maybe that I do what's humanly possible. Yeah. And then hand it over to God.

Wow, it's beautiful. Mm-hmm. I've got a few more questions I wanna ask you, but I wanted to ask the biggest lessons that your sister taught you because you both experienced a very tragic event for many months together. You both, you know, learned to heal and you came together and you've, you know, you've had a great experience with her. What have been the biggest lessons that she taught you? Because she was your older sister, correct?

My older sister. Yeah. I was the youngest in the family.

The most charming, right, in the family?

I think my parents really wanted a son after two girls. And I came along, and that was not what they wanted. And I felt it. Magda was a very good survivor. She was full of jokes. We always talked about food. That's all we talked about, food. I think she stopped really living. And it's been now perhaps many, many months. Or maybe years, that she gave up her piano. She gave up her piano lessons and she gave up bridge. She was a bridge player. I think she played with Omar Sharif, but I cannot guarantee you. But Magda has been extremely brilliant with numbers. So what she did in school, she did your homework, but she didn't want your money. She wants you to bring her food. Mm-hmm. A roast beef sandwich, or God knows, fried chicken, maybe. Fried chicken was always very good. My mother bought little chickens and it was so delicious. Wow. Or Hungarian salami. Have you been to Hungary? I haven't been.

No, I've been to Poland and other places in Europe, but no, not Hungary. To Hungary. I'll have to go. Yeah.

I think the Hungarians are good survivors as a rule.

What's the thing you'll hold on to?

There is a song in Hungary that the woman is best when she's beaten up. Wow. It's not very kind. Yeah, it's not kind. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, well, Hungarian women learned how to deal with men and give them compliments even when they don't deserve it. Wow. So women are wise, not smart, but wise how to go through the man's stomach and make him the food. That he likes. Like a certain roast beef that you make in Hungarian style. Wow. Or the chicken with a lot of paprika on it and garlic on it. I make a very good garlic chicken.

You do? I make it. Next time I'm in San Diego, I'm gonna get some of that chicken.

Tell me and I will I'm there for the chicken.

I'll do the— The chicken and a dance with you. Okay. Yes.

Okay. A little salsa. Yeah. Thank you.

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What would you say is the thing you hold in your heart dearest about your sister? The thing you'll, you'll take with you?

Her humor. Her humor. Yeah, she had a lot of humor. A lot of humor about men and women. I didn't have at all, and I don't have that kind of sense of humor.

You've got a great sense of humor. I do, but it's different. It's different. Yes. I have a question about your secret to living a long, healthy life with experiencing pain, tragedy, trauma, loss, sadness. You continue to thrive in your life.

See, when you were touched inappropriately, you probably would have come to me and say, Edie, I don't know how to tell you that because you went to Auschwitz. And my answer would be, I knew the enemy. You didn't. Don't minimize it. You have the right to be angry. But not to hold on to it or live by it. You gotta go through the rage, scream it out. Yeah. Yeah. But don't get addicted to it. Don't do anything in excess. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Drinking, smoking.

Right. Raging. Yeah.

Rage. Yeah. Rage is fear. Yeah. Fear. And the biggest fear of a child is the fear of abandonment. Mm-hmm. That is important. Yeah. Especially in midlife. That is not a crisis, but a transition. You don't have your periods anymore, but you know, who wants to have babies anyway? No problem. But I work with midlife issues a lot on a daily basis. And it's a new beginning. Yeah. It's a new beginning. You become older and wiser. Mm-hmm. Not old and senile. Right. So you're gonna write another book?

Yeah, working on another book, which has a lot of teachings about healing in the book as well, so, and overcoming that. But, uh, that's, that's part of the vision. But I'm, I'm curious for you though, what, what do you feel has been one of the keys to living a long, healthy life and, uh, with challenges and trying not to lie to yourself and not to, not to try to please other people, give up the need for approval of others.

I think that's number one. If you like me, fine. If you don't, that's okay. It doesn't mean I was rejected. Rejection is an English word that people make up to express a feeling when you don't get what you want. Give up the drama. Yeah. No one can reject me but me. That's true. Don't say, "I was rejected." Nah. Nobody has any power.

But you can reject yourself. You can. And that's the biggest betrayal, if you do it to yourself.

You better have a talk with yourself. Find that little boy who is still crying and looking for a good loving parent. Yes, yes, yeah. And be a good mommy to you.

Do you feel like you've been—

Eat your spinach.

Do you feel like you've been a good parent to yourself over the years?

I could have been better. Um, but the two questions are important. Number one, when did your childhood end? If you're a child of an immigrant, you end up taking care of your parents.

You never had a childhood.

You never had a childhood. Very important. And the second question is Would you like to be married to you?

Yeah, that's a good one. Yes, you gotta reflect.

I ask people to ask themselves.

What do people say usually?

Eh, no, no, no, no. It's up to you. Who do you attract? That's true.

That's true. Is there anything else you'd like to share today? Anything else that's opening up for you that you want to talk about?

My 95th birthday party.

When is it?

Was recently? Was a couple of weeks ago. Wow. I was— thank you.

95. Thank you. Feeling alive, 95. Feeling young. Feeling young. Young. Energetic, passionate. That's right.

Dancing. Mm-hmm. Celebrating. So the question is, how can you turn life into a constant celebration? Mm-hmm.

I love that.

How do you do that? Every moment is precious. Never throw out a piece of bread. Only buy what you eat. Yeah. Cook for yourself. Don't go to a restaurant so much because it has a lot of salt and a lot of sugar.

Yeah. Tastes so good though.

Cook, cook. Yeah. Cook for yourself and enjoy. Yeah. Every moment in life. That's beautiful. Don't procrastinate and get rid of perfectionism. Mm-hmm. I love those. Yeah, you're human.

You're gonna make mistakes. That's fine. Mm-hmm. You've got a couple of amazing books, The Choice and The Gift, which I'm a big fan of. And I know for years you said you didn't have anything to write about, but those books are incredible. I highly recommend people getting them. Oprah loved them as well, and, you know, shared them out and talked to you about those. It's, it's really impacted a lot of people in life. So I really appreciate and acknowledge you for how you continue to thrive, how you continue to serve and give back to so many of us in our lives. So I really appreciate and acknowledge you. Thank you, Dr. Edith, for your, your service and your wisdom, your joy. I want people to get your books. We'll have it all linked up for people, but you also have a course which is really inspiring as well.

Yes, we have a wonderful course, and I think we have now about 2,000 people who signed up. But I think it's very important, hopefully for me, to write a book for teenagers.

Are you going to be doing that now?

I would like to do that. I'd like to really see that teenagers can become ambassadors.

That's beautiful.

Ambassadors for peace. Teens of the future.

And goodwill. Mm-hmm, yeah. I think we need to take the children seriously and have conversations with them that is age appropriate.

Yes, yes. I can't wait for that book. You have to let me know so we can have you back on for that book as well. Um, the course— I know you have a free course about forgiveness as well, so I want people to get the free course, and we'll have it all linked up on your site, dr.edithegger.com. And, um, forgiveness has a great deal to do with letting go.

Letting go. So my definition of love is the ability to let go.

Yeah. Whatever you're holding on to, let it go.

Let it go. Yeah. Not going back. A new beginning. So you're pregnant and you're gonna give birth to the you that was meant to be free. Freedom is everything. Freedom from the concentration camp that is in your own mind and the key is in your pocket. Wow.

That's a part of your free course that people can get right now. Definitely. And then if they want even more, you've got your advanced course, Unlocking Your Potential. So I want people to get both of those. Good. That's beautiful. Okay, I have two final questions. Do you have time for two more questions? Sure. Okay. I believe I asked you this last time, but I want to ask you again, um, and it's called the, the Three Truths question. Okay, so it's a hypothetical question.

Truth is all subjective.

Exactly. My truth, your truth. Exactly, exactly. So I want you to imagine a hypothetical scenario. For whatever reason, you have to take all of your books and conversations and courses and work with you somewhere. We don't have access to your content, right? And all we have access to are these three truths, these three lessons 3 truths that you've learned in your life that you'd like to share with the world. What would be those 3 truths that you could share? If you could only share 3 things and we wouldn't have access to any other content you've created, what would be those 3 truths? Suffering makes me stronger. Mm-hmm.

Become your own good parent to you.

Mm-hmm.

And find your little child in you who is crying and asking for a good parent, and you show up for that child, the little boy, the little girl. And how anything you do, ask yourself whether it's empowering you or deplete you.

These are 3 powerful truths.

And don't say, "Just this time, nobody's gonna find out, you know. I'm gonna have this drink, just now." Yeah, is it empowering or depleting you?

Yeah, that's beautiful.

You need to know whether it's really important that you become your own good different.

Yeah, that's beautiful.

And then whether you're going to act upon it or not. Positive thinking has nothing to do with anything unless it's followed with a positive action.

That's beautiful. Well, Dr. Edith, I want to acknowledge you. I appreciate you for how you continue to show up, how you continue to serve, how you continue to give. That's what it's all about. Your joy, your generosity, your attention, your time, and your wisdom. So I really acknowledge and appreciate you. I'm so grateful for you. And I can't wait to have some chicken from you soon. That's right. I'm gonna come and get some chicken from you. We're going to have chicken together.

But most of all, we're going to be colleagues. Yes. And Recognize that none of the academic knowledge really does any good unless you really have the knowledge of your life's work, that you chose not to be a victim or the victimizer ever.

Yeah, that's beautiful. My final question: what's your definition of greatness?

Is to show up for life.

There you go. Thank you so much. Thank you. Appreciate you. Thank you.

God bless. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad-free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I I want to remind you, if no one has told you lately, that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.

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