The Identity Shift That Unlocks Wealth | Jen Sincero

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And I wanted to start with asking you a question about money and talking about money for a moment because because I feel like a lot of people are in fear around money right now. They're scared, they're uncertain of what's going to happen with all these things in the world around money and inflation and crisis and all these different things. I'm curious, with all of your research and all of your feedback from your audience with your book about money, what do you feel like is the number one thing that holds people back emotionally and mentally around believing that they are deserving of making the money they want.

About the deserving piece. Oh wow. Well, first of all, I think that a lot of people think it's not okay. Like there's a real morality around making money.

Really.

Because think about it, we really focus on greed and when you desire money, it's not the same as being greedy. But I think that we combine those two things. And so, of course, if you decide that you want to make money, you don't tell people. I remember, like, when I was on my path to, like, get rich, people were grossed out. You know, it's not. I mean, I always compare it to, like, if I was like, I'm going to lose £100. People were like, go, you. But you're like, I'm going to get rich. They're like, you're disgusting.

Wow.

You know, so there is a real judgment around that.

Why is that?

If someone's ambitious around making money and creating financial abundance for themselves, why is that?

I think because there is an implied morality piece where you're going to do things that are really bad for everybody involved. Like, you're going to. Money is the main goal, so you'll do anything to get rich. I think there is this really weird perception of that. And I do think that, you know, the news definitely focuses on all the evil that people do to make money. And so, yeah, that you rarely hear about people giving lots of money your way or doing wonderful things with money. It really is about how evil the rich are.

Yeah. It's more rare to hear people are giving, but you don't hear about it that much.

Yeah, not so much.

And it's also. Here's the interesting thing, because we've also been taught to diminish our giving. Like, to not talk about our giving, to make it anonymous. Don't brag that you're giving. Where I actually have started to prescribe to maybe talk 50% of the time about what you're giving. And the other 50% of the time, it doesn't have to be, you know, you telling the world about it. But I think when you say, here's what I'm giving, it inspires other people to be generous and giving as well.

Absolutely.

And it doesn't have to be only money, but it can be your time, your energy, your resources, another way. But I think sharing about it sometimes empowers other people to be more generous as well.

I agree. And it also takes away the stigma that you're an egomaniacal fathead and that you want, like, all the praise for being such a good guy. But. And why not? Like, we talk about other good things. We do. It's just money. You know, I've written about sex, I've studied religion. Money is, by force, far the most loaded. The most loaded, Absolutely. It's the dirtiest topic. I don't know why, and I don't. I. I really don't I don't. It's interesting, though. Like, did your parents talk to you about money? You know, I grew up a little bit.

Yeah, a little bit. But. But there was stress around money.

Right.

Which caused it to feel more unsettling. So there was some conversation, but most of the conversation was stressful or their relationship wasn't peaceful.

Right.

So I was like, okay, well, if they're not peaceful, but they're working really hard and money is kind of tied to working hard, then something must be off.

Exactly.

And it wasn't a money issue. It was just an emotional healing issue.

Right.

And that just happened to be mixed in with money.

Yes. And so in your little brain, you put it attached to. Money makes stress. Yeah, exactly.

What was your perception of money before you started to make it versus when you started to make it?

Well, I grew up in a super WASPy household, so, you know, we don't discuss money. Like, it's, you know, dirty and unless never learned anything about it at all.

And no education around it. Oh, no.

Oh, my God, no. Like, nothing. And so when I. So I was very of the mind that it wasn't cool to want to make money, you know, the unholy dollar. Like, I was a rock and roller. So I was like, more about the art.

And you're not gonna sell yourself out.

Exactly. Selling out. Like, what a concept. Selling out basically means you're getting paid for doing what you love. Like, why is that so?

Right.

And then the whole starving artist crap and all that stuff. Yeah. And that rich people sucked, and I was too cool to focus on money. I also believed I sucked at making it, which was the truth. I also had a weird feeling that, like, I was. It was almost like a different species. It's almost like me. There's me and then there's grownups. Right. And I felt that way about money, too. Like, there's me and there's people who actually make, like, real money and have big houses and fancy cars and, like, do stuff like. But I was. I was like the child version of that, you know, always sitting at the kid table financially. And so it was a total identity shift that I had to go through where it was like, that I could open myself up to, like, being somebody who could receive that kind of wealth. It was a real big shift for me.

Do you think we have to go through an identity shift in order to see money differently and to be able to receive it differently?

I think you do, absolutely. That's a really great way to go at it.

So what was Your, you know the key words around your identity with money, when you didn't have much versus the keywords that you would speak about within yourself or what money is once you started to unlock more money?

Well, it wasn't necessarily around identity, my words, because I did have two very serious mantras, but there was a lot of visualizing myself with money. Like I wrote about buying the Audi and you are a bad. And like, I'm not the kind of person who drives an Audi. Are you kidding me? Like, and like almost feeling like this, the guy who is like test drove it with me would be like, get out of here. I know who you are.

You can't afford this.

Exactly. So, so, but my mantra is really like, and before I started making money, I said I can't afford it to pretty much anything you could throw at me. My first words out of my mouth were, I can't afford it.

And I what are we doing when we're, we're saying that whether it's true.

Or not true, we are buying into an identity as somebody who can't afford stuff? We are also proving it. You know, what you speak, you want to prove because you want to be right. And it is sort of the foundation of your reality. So when I say I can't afford it a hundred times a day, I'm subconsciously pulling in proof. Like, look at the car I'm driving. I'm living in an alley. Like, I make this much money a year. I'm, I'm building all the foundational blocks to prove that I can afford it. And that becomes my reality. And then that becomes my, I like to call it familiarity zone because comfort zones are not comfortable.

Interesting.

Right? So, so then I'm just proving it over and over and over and that becomes my reality. And to shift out of that literally means to obliterate your reality and your identity. Right.

So that's why it's like an explosion. It's like you have to have a, like a death, an explosion, a bomb almost to go off.

It does. And it's killing off your old identity. And this is why I'm going to totally go off on a segue here, but this is why, like the number one question I get at my talks is what do you do when the people closest to you don't support your growth? And the main reason they don't support it is because you're killing off the person they love.

Oh man.

I mean, think about that. Like you're changing who you are and they're comfortable with who you Are. And they feel that's their reality too, is is caught up in who you are being. So when you decide to change, you're killing off their buddy or their whatever, and you're screwing up their reality because you fit into theirs.

Wow.

So it's really a thing.

It's so interesting. I was telling someone on my team this a few weeks ago that in the different seasons of my life from 18 until now, I have had all these amazing experiences, from school to sports teams, to moving to new cities, to finding new groups and communities. And a lot of them I've outgrown in certain ways or just transitioned out of. Maybe not outgrown, but just I've gone to do other things and continue to try to evolve. I'm not saying I'm better than, but I've continued to try to evolve and let go of the old me. And some of them don't like it. And I lose friends totally in the process of changing myself, reinventing myself, letting go of old behaviors and stepping into a different identity. And it's not easy to have communities that you love and people you are familiar with and hanging out with that support you. And you go to parties and do whatever activities, and then all of a sudden they stop returning your calls.

Yeah.

And they stop texting you back and you feel sad, hurt, you know, disappointed that you're trying to go somewhere and they don't support that. It's a scary time.

Yeah, it is. It's very lonely. That's why it's lonely at the top.

What suggestions do you give to people then, who are shifting their identity, stepping into a new reality for themselves and their friends don't like it, their family doesn't like it, their communities don't like it. And they're telling them to, hey, come back and hang out with us. What do you say to them?

Well, first of all, really make the decision. Are you going to stay small and shrink just so that you can be around those people and make them comfortable? Or is your comfort more important and your growth more important? And also, it doesn't serve them either. Like, if you all stay at the same low level because not everybody ditches you. There are some people that are just like, oh, my God, you inspire the crap out of me. I'm going to do it too. Right. So focus. It's all where you place your focus. Right. And then also focus on who you're going to meet now that you're getting big.

Right, right.

Those exciting, inspiring people who are turned on by the same things you Are who are doing the same things you are. Like, it's all about where you put your focus.

And you can only. I mean, I really only have maybe five to seven close friends that I can actually spend meaningful time with outside of my girlfriend, which I spend a lot of time with outside of my. Which I'm spending time with during the day, there's only so many nights and weekends that I can spend quality time with people. And you may need to open up space to invite in people that are at a. I don't know, an awareness or a support or a level of thinking that you want to be at as well.

Right.

To create that time and connection with. So it's scary though.

If it's not scary, you're doing something wrong though, right?

That's true. So how old were you when things started to shift psychologically, mentally and emotionally? And did you create a bomb? Was it more of a slow breakthrough for you in shifting this identity and this old skin?

Yeah, Yeah, I was 40. It was in my 40s. Yeah. You know, I really struggled and suffered for way too long. I mean, don't get me wrong, I had a fun life. Like, I was going on road trips and I was in a band and I was doing all the things I wanted to do, but financially I was just so stuck and stubborn in my thinking, you know, and so that's actually how I finally picked up a self help book. Like I was. I mean, self help was as ugly as making money was for me. I was always scared I'd die and they'd find them in my house because I was too cool. And. And that's when I was just like, I have got to do something. And that's when I started reading them when I was sort of end of my 30s, beginning of my 40s. But it was in my 40s that I hired my first life coach and went totally into debt for it. Like, put it on my credit card, called her and begged her for the money back. And luckily she was a great coach. She's like, that could be the most important money you ever spend. And then I was like front row doing every single, single thing she said. And luckily she was an excellent coach and I tripled my income in like three months.

And.

Wow.

And then once things. Once I saw myself do that, then I was like, okay, this works, this works. And then I was just a straight A student just doing all the things.

Just kept showing up.

Oh, I kept doubling my rates and kept cold calling and doing all the stuff that I was just like. But but it was so cool at the same time, like, it was so fun because one of the things about being stuck is that life force that's going through all of us, right? Like, it was about the money, but it wasn't about. It was about the money. Money is great. I don't want to. You know, I love having money. It's so. It's just freedom and options, right? Money is just freedom and options, and who does not want that all day long? But also, it was about the life force that. That I knew I could be doing better. There was just so much Jen Sincero that wanted to, like, go shine, basically, right. And. And I was blocking it off. I could just feel it. So it was just this clogging and this, like, frustration that once I hired the coach, like, I was in the game and I was playing and I was taking risks and I was doing stuff I'd never done before. And it was so exciting. It was so alive, you know, it's a life force. Money is currency, and currency is energy, and that energy is a life force.

And when you were feeling stuck financially and around money, was it more of a thinking or a feeling in your body and an emotional connection to it, or was it both?

Both. Definitely both.

What was the thought and what was the feeling tied to it?

The thought was, I am never going to get out of this. I'm 40, I'm living in a garage, in an alley. I've never been able to make money. It's just not something I personally can ever do. And then more subconsciously, you know, lots of things subconsciously, but, you know, it's not okay to do it. I discovered that I had a really. The biggest block for me was, if I get really rich, I will. My father, who wasn't able to show love very comfortably, would always give me a 20.

Or that was his way of.

Yep. And I was like, if I get rich, I don't need dad anymore.

Oh, wow.

And it's like putting a knife in his heart.

Oh, my goodness.

That one blew everything open for me when I realized that. And. And so, yeah, so those were the things. But it was really hopelessness, just like frustration and hopelessness, like, how am I ever going to get out of this? And then. And then I guess the, you know, the feeling was hopelessness. Despair, sadness, anger, frustration, Resentment. Yeah, resentment. Yeah, everything.

Now, did you resent people with money back then? Was it like, oh, you know, yeah, screw them. They're entitled or they have this or whatever.

Anybody who talked about it, I was really resentful of. I was like, shut up.

Don't talk.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

What happens if we don't speak about money in a healthy way?

We perpetuate it as being the big boogeyman. Yeah. And I think anything that's hush hush has. And I do. I relate it to sex all the time. Like, we're all supposed to be really good at sex, but you're never allowed to talk about it, and you certainly don't learn about it. So it's like this weird, mysterious, dirty thing. It really is. I mean, it's dirty. Money is dirty. I don't want your dirty money. You know what I mean?

And it's dirty until you don't make it dirty. Right?

Exactly.

Until you change it.

Exactly. So just by, like, airing it out and talking about it and being joyful about it and talking about what you do with it, joyfully and sharing it and making it and being happy that you made it and not, you know, it's so not a big deal. And it's like, we all need it. You know, it's so funny. I always think, like, you know, if I told the average person, like, I'm gonna give you 10,000 bucks, they'd be like, sweet. And then, you know. But talking about, like, how do you feel about rich people? How do you feel about people who make tons and tons of money? And the disparity, you know, the difference between that. Like, you want it, but there's still dirtiness around it, which is why I put in two of my books to write that letter to Money, because it's a really interesting exercise.

You wrote like a love letter to money?

Yeah, you just write a letter to money as if it's a person almost. So it's like, I love you. I wish I had more of you, but I don't trust you. And I feel like a dirty for even saying that. And, you know, all. So all the. All the things. And then you can see what you got going on.

This is a topic that I've been fascinated about for decades because I didn't have money at one point. Also, I was living on my sister's couch for a year and a half. I couldn't pay for the rent. I didn't buy food. I was just, like, living off from her for a year and a half when I was recovering from a surgery, a wrist that I broke playing football, and I was afraid of it. My father also got into a pretty bad car accident a year prior to me getting injured, where he was kind of that, like, lifeline for me where he'd give me 100 bucks when I needed it and paid for things and just said, hey, you know, go live your dreams and when you're done, we'll. We'll figure out what you're gonna do with the job.

Right.

He got in a car accident. He had extreme head trauma, was in a coma for three months.

My God.

Ended up surviving, but wasn't able to work anymore. So he was physically alive, emotionally and mentally kind of not here. So he. He passed a year ago. But it was 17 years of him struggling. Right. To try to recover. So I had this, you know, father backup to support me financially in a sense. I mean, just give me a 20 or 100 bucks here and there. And he was no longer able to do that. Wow. So I remember being fascinated by this conversation 20 years ago because I was like, I don't understand it. I don't know how to make it. I don't know why anyone would give me money. You know, where does my value come from?

Like, how am I going to ask.

Someone for money when I don't even know what skills or values I have?

Right, right, right.

And early on, I started to learn from these, you know, mentors and coaches teaching me about money. And one of them was around the way we speak about money. Because if we are essentially saying this is bad and evil or I'm not good enough for this, then why would that thing come to us? If we think it's bad and evil, we're going to be rejecting it, or if we don't think we're deserving of it, why would we receive it? Why would we bring it into us?

Right.

And so I had to really shift this conversation, you know, 20 years ago, around money and do what you talk about, which is just having more open conversations, not talking about it like it's this hush hush thing, but just being more open. Open and conversational and not being so emotionally, like, heightened.

Yeah.

When you talk about it and learn from a peaceful place of talking about it. So I love that you have this write a letter to money.

Yeah.

And really I tell people, like, if you want your money to appreciate, you must appreciate.

Exactly.

And treat it like you're the greatest lover of your life. Right?

Yes.

Treat like, if you want your partner to be investing in you and to be giving you words of affirmation and physical touch and like gifts. If you want all these love languages, then you've got to pour into and appreciate the partner you're with.

Absolutely.

Tell them how grateful you are every day, tell them what you love about them, what you see in them and when you appreciate a person like you said, or if you appreciate money, it can appreciate in value and come to you in return.

Absolutely. It's energy and it really that like money is currency and currency is energy. Like, like I had to hear it like 6,000 times before I really got that. Money is energy, it's a frequency. So when you raise your frequency and get into alignment with it and that whole alignment thing is all about none of the limiting beliefs, just just being in surrender and in alignment and having it flow in so.

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The beginning you asked me what my mom, you know, what my words were. So at first it was I can't afford it. And then I eventually went to money flows to me easily and freely. And this is still while I was living in the garage, still while I was, you know, so in debt. But I had started doing all the energy work around it and I was like, all right, what are my blocks? Like when, when you write a new mantra, it's all about like really like the letter to money. Like what just kept coming up and that I was stuck and that it was hard and that I didn't know what I was doing. So there was like hard and stuck and confusion. So flowing easily and freely was just like. Yeah. Even though I did not believe it at first, like it wasn't about believing it. It was about the feeling because we are emotional creatures and you know that emotion, the frequen emotions was, you know, the flowing, the easily and freely flowing was really, really powerful for me.

So now when you write a statement or a mantra that you're wanting to step into but you don't believe it yet, is that Lying to yourself or how do we overcome this thing that, okay, this is what I want and this is what I'm stepping into and the feelings I want to experience, but I don't have it yet. I don't, I don't. And that's not actually true yet.

Okay, I'm just going to say if you are not successful at what you want to be successful for and you're feeling stuck, you're already lying to yourself because you're buying into the identity that is not in the flow. So that's the lie. So money flowing to me easily and freely because I live in an abundant universe and I am a creature who receives. That is the truth. So even though the identity that I'm in is not believing it yet, it doesn't matter. What matters is that I'm feeling it for. So I always tell people like, you don't have to believe it at first, like, but you have to feel it. So that's why what the words make you feel like are the most important part about it. So ease and free and flow was the most important part of that.

Do you feel like, okay, you said you were around 40 years young when this kind of happened. Was there something in your life that was like, I'm just sick and tired of feeling this way after two decades or like, I just want to see what's possible for me in this next decade. Was there something around that time that made you say, all right, this hasn't worked for 40 years of my life. Yeah, now I'm going to try something different.

You know, I think it was, There really wasn't like I didn't almost get hit by a bus or, you know, I just, I. First of all, it's so boring being broke. Like you can't do anything right, really, you can't do anything. So. And, and I think it was just sort of a. It's almost like I ripened, you know, it's almost like how many times do you hear something before it's the aha moment, you know, why does that suddenly happen? I think you just finally are in a place where you can hear it for some reason. So I had started reading the self help books and I was really into it and you know, I made a bunch of half attempts at like getting my act together, but I think it was just, I think I just ripened. And then I, I made the decision, like, I think really living in. And, and it was like a one car garage, like it was small. And I think after a little while.

Of that, I Was like, I'm sick and tired of this.

I am 40 years old. You know, I could do better than this.

Right, right.

And so I think I was just so sick of myself.

So my, my friend Dean Graciosi says we pay attention to what we pay for. Do you think you making this investment in a coach made you pay attention? More to. Okay, now I got to make my money back and I'm going to make more than my money back. So I'm going to focus, I'm going to do all the painful things that she tells me to do and I'm going to be the best student I can be. Is that what your thought was because you invested?

Definitely. And I will say though is I've had clients pay me lots of money and not do a damn thing. So it's not a guarantee. So that is part of it for sure. Because I've also given like free coaching sessions to my friends and it's like the biggest waste of all of our time. Right. But. So I do think that the exchange of money is very, very real. But I think more importantly your attitude and the decision.

It's deciding.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Because you can decide to invest, but you're still not committed to taking the action and doing whatever it takes.

Absolutely. And I've gotten been given things for free, especially at that time in my life, like anything I could get my hands on. I was straight A student. So the money did have something to do with it. But I was.

But you were also committed. Free pay, whatever.

So I was ready. No, I was.

You were all in.

Oh my God. Yeah.

Before you weren't committed.

Yes.

Because you had the emotional blocks that were just half.

Yeah. And so I do think it was that sort of. It's sort of like the water hitting the rock and then it's the Grand Canyon. You know, like reading the self help books like I did. I had started that a couple years before the garage. So I was sort of priming myself and then finally I was just like, I'll do my thing.

Let's do this.

Hit me. Yeah.

What was the book that really inspired you the most?

The Science of Getting Rich by Wallace Wattles.

Yeah, it's a good.

I mean, not only because it's like this big, because I'm super impatient, but I mean it's super cryptic. It's like it's all about the universe being a thinking stuff and when you impress your thoughts into the thinking stuff, it becomes real and material world. And I just, I just. It really, really, really spoke to Me, I've read it hundreds of times. Really? Yes.

Yeah.

What was the biggest takeaway from that book?

So happy you asked, because I talk about this line all the time, is to think what you want to think is to think the truth, regardless of appearances. So this is everything, right? So mindset is everything. So regardless of appearances, regardless of the fact that I'm living in a garage, in an alley, driving a car with no grill, like those are the appearances. But to think what you want, and I think the want is so key too, because that's your. That's your authenticity. That's not like thinking what other people think you should do and how you should live your life. To think what you want, the purpose that you were put on planet earth to live out. That's the truth. That is the truth. So your desires are the truth, not what's physically around you.

Wow. So how do we know that we are in harmony and congruency with our desires? That it's for something not just selfish and self serving by itself or ego driven, but more, I don't know, driven by something greater, you know, because if someone says, well, I want to make a lot of money, or I want to make $100,000 in a year, or 500,000 or whatever it is, or millions, how do we line up our desires with our authentic selves so that we don't hurt ourselves in the process of making money or it become overwhelming, daunting, or draining?

I think you always come back to, is it fun? Does it give me energy or deplete my energy and does it have meaning? Those are the three things that I'm really living my life by these days. And I think that if you're in alignment with those three things and other things, certainly, but those are sort of my big three.

Is it fun? Does it give me energy and does it give me meaning?

Yeah. And is it meaningful? Yeah.

Is it meaningful? Yeah, I like that.

Yeah.

And where were you at 39? Doing things that weren't fun, that drained your energy and giving meaning?

Yeah, pretty much. I mean, I was a freelance writer hustling my butt off. And then like when I really did the math, I was like the amount of time I spent hustling for this gig and they don't pay that well. Like magazine articles. Come on. I was making like, I was probably losing money, quite frankly. So. Yeah, no, there was, there was none of that. It was not fun. It was exhausting. It had some meaning, but you got to get all three, you know? Yeah.

Or at least start working towards it. Because you may not be able to at this season, but you got to focus on can I get one?

Can I get one? And is it leading in the direction of something that is fun, that is going to give me energy and has meaning? Because you're right. Like when you're building a company or when you're doing something like it is exhausting, but if it's still exciting and fun and has meaning, then yeah, yeah, it doesn't get to be a picnic all the time.

When was the biggest aha moment for you then? Like, was it after you made a certain amount of money or a client paid you something, or was it just a feeling you had, like releasing all of it in the process of working? Like, when was that moment where you're like, I'm actually emotionally and mentally free around the idea of money.

Oh, interesting. Maybe I'm not abundant, I will tell you. No, I actually did and I did put it in. You are a badass. I put it in one of them. It was when I had. Oh my God, it was such a cool moment. So, because money is currency and currency is energy, right? So we're really going to get woo woo with the money, like really shifting the mindset around money. And I bring me back to my story. If I go off on a tangent, because I'm about to go on off on a tangent, I want to remember, but I.

Money is currency and currency is energy.

Yes, money is currency. Currency is energy. And I've had so many clients that have told me, and it's happened to me too, where they manifest when they get into the meditation and they start to raise their frequency and they focus on the amount, the exact amount comes in from outer space that you didn't even think of. And so my story is around that where I was working with my coach and we were really going to shift my money reality. And so she's like, you know what amount of money would be really great for you to make right now? Like, what would have a lot of meaning? And I was like, $10,000 because I'm $10,000 in debt on my credit card and I hate being in debt. She's like, perfect. And so she's like, okay, so how soon are you going to make it? And she goes, you know, like about a week, two weeks. Because I, you know, and I was at the time making like 30 grand a year. And I was like, my God, If I made 10,000 in a week, that would be incredible. And I was like, but you know what I got to do it in two days because I know myself, and I won't keep myself in that frequency. Like, I'll lose steam and I'll decide that. Like, nah, it's not. I can't do it or whatever. Like, I knew that the stuff would start creeping back in, so I was like, all right, 10 grand in two days. She's like, great, okay, so how are you going to do it? At the time, I had this little online coaching business that I had just started coaching writers. And I said, I'll get three private clients, blah, blah, blah, blah. So then we're, you know, putting all the pieces in place. And then she's like, okay, and is there anything else? And I was like, well, you know, there was this guy that I was coaching years ago. He was my first private client. I was charging him like 50 bucks an hour. And I was like, I could also call him and see if he wants to work with me again. And she's like, okay, great. And we're still on the phone, and I check my email and he has written me. I have not thought of this man or communicated with him in years. Email. He's like, you know, are you still coaching? Can you help me? When can we start?

Wow.

And so she's like, okay, here's what we're going to do. We're going to put together a $10,000 package for him, and you're going to sell it to him right now.

Holy cow.

I know. And I was like, $10,000? Like, I was charging him 50 bucks an hour. I was. And I really adore him. He's such a special person. And I was like. Felt like, you know, a greedy pig, blah, blah, blah. All the things fraud, complex, gigantic imposter syndrome. Oh, beyond. Beyond. And so we put. She's like. And what we'll do is we'll put together a $15,000 package and a 10. So the 10 looks cheap. And I was like, I can't do 15. She's like, all right, 12. Pain in my ass. Did a 12, sent it to him and literally wanted to throw up. I was just like, if he. Because I really cared about this guy, he bought the 12.

Holy cow.

I know.

You should have made it 15.

I know. Exactly.

I know. Well, here's the thing. You know, it's not like you were charging him 12 hours on an hour. Obviously, you created a position packaging of services that would over deliver, that would serve him.

I worked with him for five years after that.

Exactly.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So it's not like I'm Just going to charge some number and give very little.

Oh, no.

You made sure that the value was there.

Totally.

How did you learn to package and position your value to be able to charge for what you wanted?

My coach helped me put it all together, but then I had to rise to that frequency. And I'll tell you, you know, when you're charging something that scares out of you, you show up with your A plus game. Like. And he did too. Like, it was a lot for him, too. We knocked it out of the park.

Because you pay attention to what you pay for.

Yes.

Right?

Yes. Yeah, totally.

You'll rise to the occasion. Like, I gotta focus.

Yes.

I gotta give. I got to show up on time. I got to deliver the results on time.

Absolutely.

Give my best here.

Yep.

Interesting. So now here's. I'm curious about the next thing. Was that everything to the story? First off, I want to make sure I get. Yeah, okay. Money is currency and currency is energy. I'm curious about the next thing. So once this happened and you sold a $12,000 package and you were like, this is crazy and this is more money than I've ever made in my life. Essentially, in two days. Did you fall back at any point or did you stay focused?

Oh, interesting.

Because sometimes people get an opportunity and they get excited and then. Well, I tried it again. It didn't work. So maybe this is a fluke. Maybe this was a one time and their thermometer goes back down to what they're comfortable or familiar with.

Very common. Very common. I did not. But only because I continued to get coaching and I got bigger and bigger and bigger packages. I mean, I was paying six figures by the end, 100 grand for like.

A year of coaching or. Wow.

So I just. Because I knew myself, I was like, I am rickety in this whole sort of wealth consciousness department. So I knew that I had. It's like getting a personal trainer. Right. So I just kept investing in the coaching and now. Now I'm good, but I do still have to work at it.

I mean, it's different levels.

It's different levels, you know, and you.

Feel comfortable at this level, but if you want to break through.

Exactly.

Do something you've never done. You've got to have a different frequency still. Right?

Exactly. You get, you know. Yep. Oh, there's always more growth to be had.

Do you feel like you're kind of at like a block right now? Because again, you've sold, you know, I don't know, 5 or 10 million copies of your books. You've got coaching program, you've got all these core success, financial freedom, all these different things. But is there like a level you've reached that you feel like, okay, well, can I break through this? This is so much now. And I feel, you know, abundant. But could you break through?

If I want. If I could decide what I want the next thing to be. Yet I'm still in that sort of incubation period of like, what would be fun, give me energy and have meaning. I'm getting there. Like, I definitely feel like I'm getting there and I'm doing a lot of things that meet those requirements in the meantime. But it's not the big.

What's your biggest. What's your biggest fear or insecurity around money right now?

That I don't know what to do with it when I make it. Like, I'm good at making it. My bookkeeper called me one day and she's like, would you please just open a savings account at your bank? Because I had like a million dollars in my checking account. This was a while ago. I finally got my. So I've hired financial plan. Like, I've hired people who. Grown ups who know what they're doing with money, but like, I'm teaching myself about it. But I find it boring. I find investing boring and confusing and out of my league. So luckily there are amazing people who know what they're doing. So I have finally gotten that team together.

Gotcha.

And there is a little tiny part of me, if I gave it any attention, that is a little scared it's all gonna go away.

Really?

Yeah. But I don't. I'm not. It's not that bad. And I probably should not even speak it out loud, right?

Yeah.

Well, you're being, you're being honest about it. I think there's one thing about speaking it out loud so it doesn't happen, but another thing about saying it so it doesn't have power over you.

Right? Yeah.

You know, it's like, we'll take that verse. You're afraid of it. Like, you're afraid to have the conversation around money. Yeah, I'm all believer. Like, don't speak into something in existence you don't want to happen. But I think, you know, when I started talking about my fears and my shame and my insecurity, it actually felt like the poison was coming out of me. And now I could see it outside of me or I could have a conversation with it as opposed to it being in me. Afraid to talk about.

Right.

And then I could get Coaching about it.

Right.

And then I could. Okay, let me create a game plan. Okay. Well, I'm afraid of it, but now I have a coach to help me, you know, invest it the right way and whatever I need to do.

Yeah.

You know, so.

Yeah.

As opposed to ignoring it and just. I hope I don't lose it, but I'm not gonna speak about it.

Right. That's a good point. That is a good point. Okay, I'll tell you another one.

What's the other one?

The other one is that I'm gonna make too much of it, and I won't. And it is. It's kind of like the same as the first one, but I won't know what to do with it. Like, I'm scared of it coming in too fast and too much because it's gonna bury me alive almost. Yeah, I know. I know. And so this is why. So I bury me alive kind of. Yes.

Why would it bury you? Why would money bury you alive?

Just telling you what I.

Well, this is the interesting thing, Jen. I think it's powerful that you're talking about this, because there's different levels of insecurities or fears at the stages of money we make. And when I was broke on my sister's couch, I had a lot of fear and insecurity, uncertainty of the future. And then I remember, in one day, I made $6200 in an hour doing, like, a live webinar, selling a program. This is in 2009.

Okay.

Well, there was, like, courses and webinars, all this stuff.

Yeah.

And I go, I'm the richest man in the world with $6200. Now, I had to split that with the person who promoted this training for me, but I still felt like $3,100 in an hour. I go, I could do this every day for the rest of my life. Right. Because I was sleeping on my sister's couch.

Yeah.

But there was still. I'd never made six figures, and so there was still a challenge, like, how do I do this and how do I manage it? And I understand it. And now taxes. What all my money's gone from. I just made money. I have zero again. And this fear of, like, this tax thing. And then you get to the next level. The next level. Next level. And I just think there's different challenges or things we get to overcome at every level of money as well.

Sure. Yes.

You know what I mean?

Level New Devil.

Right.

Yeah.

So one of the fears is, will the money bury me alive?

Yeah.

Why do you think that is like.

Oh, gosh, why do I think that is? I think it's my insecurity about not knowing what to do with it. When I had. When I had very little of it, I could manage it. Right. That was easy. And then as I started getting more and more and so I do have pieces in place, but I've opened, I've hired a new financial team so I can make like, build the nest. And it will come. Because I was like, if I don't take care of this, I will literally block it. I will energetically block it if I'm scared of it coming in and think it's going to bury me alive. Like, that is not a abundant mindset, you know?

Sure.

So, yeah, So I, I just created the nest. So now bring it on, universe.

Right, Right. So now you can. You have, you have a foundation for it to come in.

Yeah. Yeah. So it's not scary anymore because I know where it's going to go. Yeah. But I realized that I was just like, wow, I am kind of scared of it coming in too much. I know. It's interesting, isn't it?

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I think it's fascinating. I think we all get to experience at different levels how to break through. Otherwise, wouldn't it be interesting if it was just, I don't know, there's no obstacle.

Yeah.

What do you think are the key things that abundant mindset people around money do differently than scarcity mindset people around money, if you had to say three or five kind of key things.

They appreciate it. As you said that. That is a biggie. They appreciate it and they speak about it as they love it. They're not weird about it. They're also generous with it. Because when you pinch yourself off from giving, that is sort of a subconscious way of saying there's not enough to go around and it's not going to. I'm not in the flow. So when you don't give generously, it's because you're scared that it's not going to come in anymore. They take risks. You know, you got to take risks. You are where you are because you've been doing what you've been doing. So if you want to change your life, you've got to do stuff you've never done. What else? Wealthy people, they learn about money. Like, you, you focus on money. Like, that was such a big thing for me too. Like, when I was broke, I. I never wanted to think about money. Right. I was all about writing songs and, you know, doing much, you know, more noble things.

Sure, sure.

But then. But when you're broke, all you think about is money. Like, I don't really think about money that much now that I have it, like. But every single decision you make when you're broke is about money.

So I have enough to pay for this.

Exactly.

Afforded.

What happens if I don't have.

Right. You wake up in the first thing in the morning in a panic because you got to pay your bills. So you're always thinking about money. So it is really just sort of getting in the flow with that and just, you know, being on good terms with it and, and focusing on it and. And, you know, how are you going to make it? Like being realistic about your income streams and, you know, and if you want to make it, you've got to coax it in, you know, give it. Yeah.

I'm curious about this. Okay. You, You're a starving artist. You wanted to do noble things, which. About art and making art and all these different things. What would have happened if someone would have said, jen, you know what? I Love that you're an artist. I love that you have this, you know, passion for art and you want to keep doing this. And this is where you've been for 40 years, and we don't want you to change. Here's 100 grand a year for the rest of your life. Don't worry about money. Up to 100 grand. What would that have done to you if someone would have given you 100 grand a year and you would have just been like, okay, I'm going to write and do whatever I want? And how do you think it would have been? Mentally, emotionally, spiritually, versus you having to risk emotionally, mentally.

Yeah.

You getting to heal, let go, overcome.

Right.

Challenge yourself into asking for money, into becoming something greater than that. Limiting belief. What do you think? Where do you think it'd be now?

Probably would have spent it on beer. Honestly, back in those days. Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, I wasn't. You're absolutely right. It's a frequency, you know, it's like. I don't know. I mean, I always. I always had. I guess I'm gonna say gall. That's not the right word. But I did. I did do a lot of stuff that was pretty edgy, and I pushed the envelope a lot. So I may have gotten there, but I don't think it would have been as exciting as it was to do it myself. You know, there really is. You do grow. And they say, you know, starting your own business is the best personal development course you can possibly take, because all your stuff comes up. Right.

All of it. So relationship training is leadership training. It's inner child training. Everything, Everything. Every button is pushed.

Totally. So. So it wouldn't have been as satisfying, I don't think. I think I still would have done it, though, because that is kind of my personality. When I'm ready to change, I'm ready to change, and I do it, so. But I think it wouldn't have been as glorious, and I'm definitely. I probably wouldn't have written you are a vet, which totally changed my entire life.

So it changed yours, but also changed other people's lives.

Yes.

So it's who you become. The lessons you learn, the wisdom you have.

Yes.

To then be able to be of service and teach.

Yeah.

From your own experience.

Exactly. Yeah. The book about me getting 100 grand a year just for being would not be that interesting to people.

Right.

Yeah. Right. That's interesting.

Yeah.

What is the question you get asked by your readers the most that you wish they truly could hear and believe the answer to?

Oh, so many. Well, the one that I said about what do you do when the people closest to you don't support you? Another one is how do you keep the motivation? Like, you know, we go to these seminars, we read books, we listen to the podcast and we're all raring to go.

And then a month later you go back in your home.

Exactly. Yeah.

So how do you stay motivated on your vision and on your growth journey?

Well, I call it going to the spiritual gym. And you've got to have a spiritual gym practice because you do not get to work out physically and then stop going to the gym once you're in shape. So just because you got in shape at the seminar or listen to the podcast or whatever, you don't get to stop doing stuff. So. And it doesn't. And you know everybody, I'm gonna working so hard to start my business, I don't want another thing to do. So it's like it can be 20 minutes. You know, you working out for 20 minutes a day can do a lot of great things. So it's like spiritual gym workout, meditate for 15, read a self help book for five. Like, what music are you listening to? Who are you hanging out with? What makes you feel like you could flip over a car? Like, what are those things? And do them every single solitary day for 20 minutes. It's not that big a whoop dee doo, you know, when you think about that it's going to change your entire life, you know, so. And take it as seriously as anything else because that work will make everything else that you're taking seriously and trying to achieve so much easier. And you know, I'm giving a lot of talks right now and the thing that I'm just so excited and I'm so excited to be speaking right now too because it reminds me it's my spiritual gym, right? Like we all need it.

So.

But the thing about, because we are spiritual creatures having a physical experience, right? And if you and like instead of just giving it lip service and talking. Yeah, yeah, I know that. But think about it. We are the universal intelligence that created everything that is. We are, our thoughts are universal intelligence and stuff that created everything that is. Why are we not more stuck up? Why are we not feeling so powerful all of the time if we're really going to believe it, if we're really going to go steroids on woo woo and go there and really like, if you thought about that all day long, about your thoughts being, you know, when you're in alignment, not the garbage thoughts that you think. But when you get quiet and you tap into your inner yippee skippy, as I like to call it, and you're there and you're in the flow, it's like, it's so exciting, right? Instead of spinning out on how pissed off you are at somebody, you're freaking out about this, judging people, judging people, what we do all the time, right? If you can just catch yourself. And that's why awareness is the key to transformation, right? So you just catch yourself when you're in the spins.

And.

And this is why meditation is so important, because it gets you into the habit of catching yourself, right? Because you're trying to stay clear. So. So it's not just about catching yourself in meditation and moving the thoughts away. Meditation is practice. We're doing it all day long. So catching yourself and be like, ah, I'm going to tap back into universal intelligence, the stuff that created all that is so. And then just going from there.

If you could reflect on you are bad. Which when I read it, it gave me, like, this jolt of energy because I was like, this is exactly what I want to talk about consistently. You know, I had. I had the school of greatness I think had come out for maybe. I don't know. I think I read your book maybe a year after I started. I saw it on the shelves, but I ended up getting it maybe a year after I started the show. And I was like, this is amazing. I'm so glad you're talking about this, because it's everything that I believed in and everything I wanted to continue to express in my own way. If you could reflect on one idea from that book and you can only share one idea.

You're so mean, man. All right, let me pick a book.

That you believe is the thesis of the book that you want people to remember and remember a concept, a phrase, an idea from it. What would that be for you?

Well, kind of what I just said. But since I just said it, I'm going to use my point for another one. Use my one thing, my one thing I get to say. I really believe that if we all did something that scared us every single solitary day, our lives would change so quickly we wouldn't know what hit us. Right?

Let's go, Jen.

And scary in that, like, terror, excitement way. Like terror excitement. Like you don't have to, like, run into traffic, you know, but something that's like, in the direction of where you want to go, that scares you. Because fear is the sign. It's the compass that you're Getting outside of the familiarity zone.

So true.

Right? So if you just take those steps outside and just do the scary thing every day. Every day. Wow. Because that's. That's really. When I was making all of my huge financial transformations, it was always, you know, my coach would always tell me something. I'd be like, totally didn't want to do it, but I knew if I did it, it would transform my life. And it was exciting, you know, it was like leaping into the void. Just like.

Yeah.

And that's the sign. Yeah.

I have this concept in my latest book, the greatest mindset called creating your fear list. If you want to become fearless, you got to create a fear list that's brilliant and really go all in on this. This is something I did as a teenager, in my 20s and my 30s, at different seasons of life. I was like, what is the thing that makes me feel so insecure right now? I had a lot of false confidence. I was like, this jockey ego. Like, I'm big and tough, and I'm an athlete, and I can dominate on the sports field. But then I couldn't talk to girls without being, you know, sweating and being terrified. I couldn't dance or sing in public without being, like, humiliated or I. Whatever it was, I couldn't speak in public also. So all these things I wrote on my fear list in my 20s, after I broke my wrist and was on my sister's couch, I was like, I'm already humiliated. I have no money. I'm living in my sister's place for a year and a half. You know, my dad just went through this thing that I don't have him, really, in my life anymore. My passion, my dreams are gone. So I have. What do I do now? Let me just conquer all my fears. And it was the greatest gift I gave myself because it gave me so much belief and confidence in me. Every time I would just get a little bit better in my fears. It's not like I had to overcome it all in a day, but I just saw a little bit of progress every day in practicing my fears. Public speaking a little bit every week, I was, like, a little less nervous, a little more confident, a little more skill every week over a year's time where I was like, man, I'm a powerful human being. I can do anything now. Let me figure out the next fear. And just kept repeating it. And. And I'm still in that now. Like, I'm. I'm trying to learn Spanish, and I still get insecure, like, speaking Spanish. I'm still, like, A beginner, but it's like I gotta keep practicing and a little bit of growth every day a little bit better. You know, I don't have to be fluent overnight, but what am I overcoming just little by little. That really gives me a lot more confidence in self and belief. And I think my thesis is self doubt is the killer of dreams.

Right.

When we doubt self, it's really hard to do anything courageously because we're constantly in doubt mode.

Right.

So I loved your book about stop doubting yourself and start stepping into your greatness.

Yeah.

And. And a lot of people are stuck in doubt. What do you think beyond facing fears we can do to believe in ourselves more and overcome the self doubt that we have better?

I think not waiting until you're ready, you know, and this is kind of saying the same thing like facing the fear, but like making sure everything's perfect. Making sure you've got all the money tucked away, making sure you're the right weight, you know, whatever. Like just doing it now, you know, just do it now and take action now is a really big one, I think. And also, you know, paying attention again to how you speak about yourself and what you think about yourself and what you. How you treat yourself. And you know, I wrote a whole section in Bad Habits about boundaries. You know, boundaries are huge when it comes to self care and self doubt and we make lousy boundaries and put everybody in front of us because we want to be liked and you know, and then we're passive aggressive and resentful, which is super fun for everyone, you know, so it's like. But you know, really getting clear on who you are and what you love and making that a priority.

When did you stop abandoning yourself?

You know, I still do it sometimes, of course. I mean. Yeah, yeah.

In what ways do you.

Oh God.

Is it in relationships? Is it in self care? Is it in the way you talk?

Not speaking, you know, sort of not standing my ground in the moment. If somebody says something really crappy, you know, and it doesn't have to be. I'm not. I also don't want to be the personality police. Like if someone's gonna say something, but more just not saying anything. Like instead of like brushing it over because it's awkward, just letting it sit there like the big turd it is and let it. Everybody like have a good look at it instead of helping them recover or you know, just like in the, in the moment is always interesting to me. So slowing. So my mantra for the past five years has been like slow down and shut up. Like, just slow down and shut up. Like I'm, you know, just listen and just choose your words wisely.

You don't have to react to everything.

Exactly. So, yeah, for sure. That's.

Personality police is always.

Yeah. It's not your job to teach everybody how to behave. Let them say what they want. Let them, you know, and this is all part of my whole, like, not giving a crap what people think of me. It's just like, think what you like, think what you like. It's not my right.

It's almost. It's almost, you know, in a way. And I've done this many times. It's not like I'm saying I'm above or anything, but when we judge another person because they didn't do it the way we liked it, or they think they should do it or it's appropriate in the setting, we are being judgmental. Yeah, we are being judgmental. We're not accepting. I'm not saying that's the right or wrong thing to do, but it's just something to notice. Yeah, there's a judgment that's happening.

Oh, yeah.

And when there's a judgment, there's usually a right and wrong.

Yeah.

And so it's just. Is that serving us in the flow of our peace, our happiness, our abundance, and being in harmony with the world. And maybe there is a time where we need to step up and create a boundary and say something and say, get away from me or whatever it is. But.

But it's really more about. It's the inside job thing where it's none of your business. You know, that's their journey. So that's really, you know, And I don't think we ever get there. I don't think. I think it is human to judge and judge, you know, and it's fun. Come on, let's be honest.

Sure, sure.

But. But I do think that it's a very worthwhile way to spend your time, like, working that muscle and just getting. Because it's also more fun. Like, if you don't. If you just leave it to them and let them do it, you're not spinning out on it anymore. You're not focusing on it, which pulls more of it into your radar anyway. Like, if you can just focus on what feels fun and good and true and just, like, let them have it back.

Right. How important is healing our past and our thoughts tied to having peace around making money?

Super important. Because if you're. Because if you go out and make a ton and you're still Weird about it. Right. You're, first of all, not going to enjoy it and you'll probably lose it or you'll be, you know, put it in a hole in the backyard and never spend it or hoard it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it is.

What is the thing that people should focus on healing the most in order to set themselves financially free?

I think it's different for everybody. I think we all are fed different lies and fears and things. So I think it's. But figuring out what your bag of worms is, you know, you gotta get clear about that. And I'll tell you the way that I discovered the big kahuna for me, which was my dad, like, stabbing my dad in the heart. Like I was talking about earlier, was spending money. So the way that. So I did. I did the Letter to Money. I was doing all. I was really serious about figuring out my stuff with money. And I was at a coaching seminar and this coach was speaking from the stage, and he said that he charged $85,000 a year to work with him. And I. He was great and I really loved him and I totally wanted to work with him. And when I heard $85,000, because I had been doing all this work on my wealth consciousness, instead of being like, he's high, like, what a. You know, but about a million.

He's crazy. Yeah, yeah.

Very rational excuses not to do it. Instead of going there, I went to, okay, how am I going to get 85 grand? Like, that's where my mind went first. And that's only because I'd been going to the financial spiritual gym for so long that that's where my mindset was. So I went, how am I going to get $85,000? And I had a vision of my father. And a lot of stuff comes to me visually, a vision of my dad. And he always wore this yellow V neck sweater, and he had his hands in his pockets and he was looking down at the ground, really sad. And I was like, oh, my God, that's it. It's going to kill him if I get rich, because he won't be able to show me he loves me anymore. Oh, my gosh, it was so profound. And that really was a straw that broke the camel's back for me.

So what did you do after that?

Then what was interesting, I ended up not working with that coach.

But I got you thinking about, yeah.

But I ended up hiring a different coach a couple weeks later for the same amount.

Oh, wow.

Yeah.

And so how did you heal that belief around, like, I'M gonna kill my dad if I make a lot of money. Did you have conversations with him? Did you do something internally? What.

It wasn't about him at all. It was about me and my perception. So what I started doing was visualizing him being so proud of me and supporting me and being happy and, like, turning it around. Just being like, he's. He's going to be so relieved that I can take care of myself, because my dad was. Had me when he was older. So it's like, he'll. He'll feel so rested. And. And the other thing, too, that was so funny. Like, my relationship with. It was pretty. Was pretty rough. And so whenever. When I started getting. When I started making money and I would tell him about it, he didn't really listen very well. And I'd be like, dad, you know, I just got paid this much. He's like, that's nice. He has an Italian accent that I always try to imitate that I'm terrible at. But at the end of the call, he'd be like, you know, do you need some help financially? And I'd be like, dad, I just told you that. And so I'd get, you know, all. After the yellow sweater, hands in pockets moment, I was like, it's the only way he knows how to show love. So I could be like, dad, I just made $10 million. And at the end of the call.

Do you need 20 bucks?

Do you need 20 bucks? I'd be like, you know, that'd be great. Thank you so much. And I could say, see how much it meant to him? And I get 20 bucks and everything's good. So it was a really beautiful. And it really healed my relationship with him a lot.

Did he say, I love you? Did he speak?

Oh, he always said, I love you. Like, he was. He was good that way, but he was a real. He just. He was a super introvert, and he just was really uncomfortable with emotions. Yes. And he's Italian. I thought, they're all screaming and yelling, you know, I was like, are you sure you're Italian?

Sure, sure. But that was his way of showing affection and that he loved you, but by this act.

And he also was raised to think men are providers, and that's how you show. Yeah.

Even if you make money, I'm still going to provide and support you.

Yes.

What do you think would have happened if you would have stopped allowing him to give you, you know, 10, 20, 50 bucks? What a really team wanted to give it to you. What would have.

It would have really hurt his feelings. Like it really would have made him feel cut off from me.

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Quince.com Lewis so this is interesting because you don't need someone to pay for you for things, right? Like you can pay for your own life. You can pay for food and dinner and trips in your home. Like you don't need someone to pay for you, right? The thing that I've learned in the last couple of years of being with my, with my girlfriend Martha is that it's, it's, you know, I don't. She can take care of her own stuff and she takes care of certain stuff and there's certain things that I take care of for us and I take care of myself financially in certain ways. But I've gotten to the point where I don't feel like I need to pay for everything to feel like she, like I'm enough, right? Like I'm, I'm good enough or that I'm deserving or worthy or this is my value in being able to give everything financially. Now again, and I don't want to rob her of being able to pay for the things that she's made her money. I want her to be able to pay for certain things for herself. But it does mean I get to show up in a different way. Maybe not financially, but spiritually, with my presence, with my generosity of my words and my. My time, like, my thoughtfulness, and provide value in other ways not tied to money. And sometimes that can be uncomfortable if we haven't trained ourselves how to provide value outside of money in relationships. And I've had to learn that. And it's been a powerful breakthrough in a lot of ways. Cool. It hasn't been in the last two years. It's been like, a decade of me doing this. But it allows me not to feel like, oh, she's paying for her own food right now. I'm worthless.

Right.

You know?

Yeah.

Then I'm. I'm nothing to her, and I. You know.

Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And it's been a. It's been a. It's been powerful to empower her to be able to make decisions financially.

Yeah.

Which she was doing before me. She doesn't need me to do that.

Right.

She was already doing that.

Yeah.

But to me, I feel like I have to pay for everything.

Yeah.

And she just has to, like, let me provide. Yeah.

I know. It's interesting.

It's a. It's more of a mutual providing of value in the relationship intimately, peacefully. Like, the highest currency for me is peace.

Yeah.

I would take peace over money all day long. And she brings peace to the relationship. Therefore, I don't need her to ever spend money on anything. Just be peaceful. And I'm. You've got a happy man, you know, but. And I think that's just something to look at. Like, what. How can you bring value into a relationship related to money?

Yeah. Well, listen, Louis, I'm cutting you a check after I leave. Like, the fact that you said that right after. I was like, of course it's my daddy stuff. I mean, come on. Yeah, yeah. No, that is something to look at for sure.

What was the best lesson your dad's taught you?

You know, he. Oh, I don't know. This is such a great lesson, but it's a really funny line, so I have to say it, but I remember when. I think he taught me a lot about perspective because he grew up in Italy, in Naples, and he didn't come over here until he was in his twenties. And so I. And he just always thought American children were so spoiled. He was like, oh, my God, you Whiny little, like, I can't believe. So I remember, like, one time, like, in college, I was like, dad, will you help pay for therapy? I'd really like to talk to a therapist. He's like, you don't need therapy. You know what you need? A war fought on your soil.

And I was like, oh, my gosh. Okay.

Right. Good perspective, but just sort of his. I mean, I think also that you can love in different ways. Like, I feel like that's sort of what he has really taught me, you know, with the money stuff. Like, that was just his. You love however you can. And that he really did. I mean, the guy could not look at me without crying. Like, he just. That's. But he couldn't express it. So it was like. It was like he couldn't. And I was so angry at him for so long. For not telling you certain things. Yes. And not listening to me the right way and all stuff. And I'm just so. He lived into his 90s, and I'm so glad he did because I feel so good with where our relationship was by the time he passed, because I put down the bag, you know, I was like, let it go, Jen. Like, he is doing his best, the best that he can, and he loves me. And how lucky am I that I have a dad who loves me that much? So it was really, really great. So I just feel like he really taught me a lot about. It doesn't have to be the way you expect it to be. It can be different. Somebody can love you differently than you would love them, and then you expect it and to be grateful as hell that they do.

Yeah. That's beautiful. I love that.

Yeah.

I want to ask you about coaching because I've heard coaching a few times. As an athlete, I know the value of coaching from sports into business. I have a relationship coach. I have a health coach, nutrition coach. I have coaching in every area because coaching worked for me as an athlete to get to my goals and accomplish the dreams that I had in sports. So when I transitioned from sports into life, the first thing I did is look for mentors and coaches to guide me on my path. I don't think I'd be where I am today without having great coaches and guides. Do you think we should all find a money coach or have some type of coaching within money? Whether that's a financial advisor or maybe it's reading your book around money or listening to content about money, or should we have guides and coaches?

Yes. I mean, especially if you're not making it like, right, you need money, and you. You need it now, you know, so get a coach. Like I always talk about Olympic athletes have coaches. Why do you think you and your scraggly little. Trying to scrape it together. Why do you think you don't need one? You know, that's what got me doing it. I was just like, who am I kidding? I've been trying for 40 years on my own, and I couldn't do it.

Right.

Yeah, No, I think coaching. I think coaching. Because also we all know what it's like. Like when you're saying, you know, how would I coach somebody who's going through what I'm going through super easy. Right. When it's not me. So that's what a coach also does. It's like, they see they're not in your forest with all your trees, like, they're looking at it without all your around it, you know, so they can see it so much more easily. And so a good coach can save you so much time and money in the long run.

Do you have a coach right now?

I don't have a coach right now. Yeah. But I'm still in that sort of incubation. I need a coach to help me figure out what I want to do. Yeah. No, but I'm not scared of hiring that way.

Man, I love hiring. Yeah, but you're in a season of discovering and reflecting on what you want next.

Yeah.

You've done so much in the last decade, and.

Yeah.

And now you're figuring out, okay, what. Where am I at?

Yeah.

What I want to contribute or how do I want to show up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Interesting come to you.

It's fun. And I'm still. And, you know, I'm still doing stuff, and I really believe in not sitting around and trying to figure it out, because when you're about to do something new, you don't know what it is.

You never done it.

So you got to go out and do stuff, try things. Try things. So I'm out there trying things for sure. And I'm, you know, and I'm still doing all the bad stuff. You know, we've got a lot of really cool things happening in that arena, so. So that's all super duper fun.

That's great.

But just, you know, living the dream.

Jen, I got a couple of final questions for you.

Okay.

What is the thing you're most proud of that most people want to know about you?

I would say that I'm a really good friend. I have friends. I have lifelong friends from forever. And a Lot of them. And we're just like a family. And I have. I feel like I'm an art collector and I have all these masterpieces of humanity that I just. I pick good ones.

That's a great.

And I keep them around because they're really important to me.

That's cool. Yeah, I like that explanation of it. You're an art curator of humanity.

I am.

I like that.

I'm telling you, I want to have an unveiling, which will just be called a party to some people, but I.

Like that a lot. I asked you this question on our previous interview. That was a virtual interview, but I'm curious your response to it now.

Okay.

So we'll have to reflect afterwards on what those answers were before to where they are now. This question is called the Three Truths. So imagine a hypothetical scenario. You get to live as long as you want to live on this earth, but then one day you turn off the lights in this physical world and you get to create and achieve and accomplish all the things you want to do. But for whatever reason, all of your written, audio and video material has to go with you.

Okay.

From all your books and this interview. And everything's gone. Hypothetical scenario.

Okay.

But you get to leave behind three truths. Three lessons you would share with the world. And this is all we have left of your. Your words. What would be those three truths for you?

Well, let's see. Three truths would be the most important thing to develop if you want to really live an awesome life, is your mindset. Really develop your mindset and pay attention to it. Do the scary thing. Definitely do the scary thing every single day and have as much fun as you can. Like, what else are we here for?

Yeah, that's beautiful. You have again, 10 year anniversary of youf are a Bat. You've got other amazing books as well. You're a badass at making money. You're a badass every day. Badass habits. So many amazing books. Number one New York Times bestseller. You've got an amazing course, I believe as well. Coaching course. Group coaching course so fun@jensencero.com S I n C-E-R-O.com where they can get that information. What do they get in this course and this coaching?

Well, I'm doing it live now, which I haven't done in eight years. And it's so much fun. I missed coaching. I really miss talking to other people. And it's. I've been selling it as a DIY course for a while, but now I'm back in it. So basically you get. It's eight weeks long. You get and we. And what I love about this course is I wrote it right after I finished writing. You are a badass. So I put in a lot of like time management and sort of like, you know, brass taxi kind of thing. And every other week is a spiritual element. So you start applying the spiritual to the tactile. So because I really feel like, you know, we talk about all this stuff but unless you're actually doing it while you're taking action, who cares? So people, it's been so much fun. So basically you get a video at the beginning of the week, you get a PDF with the video and then every other week you get a 90 minute coaching group coaching call with me.

That's cool.

That's recorded. So if you can't be there, it's fine. And then. Or a guided meditation or a guided motivational.

That's beautiful.

Yeah, it's really fun. And a Facebook group where you can hang out with the other people in the course.

Everyone could use more, more coaching from you. You know the strategy.

I love it.

You're also on social media everywhere, Jen Sincero, everywhere. On Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, what's the main platform you hang out the most?

I like Instagram the best. Yes.

Okay. Make sure to follow you there. So if you enjoyed this, make sure to follow, share a story, Leave a message about your biggest takeaway from this episode on social media and also in the comments below over on YouTube. I want to acknowledge you, Jen, for your journey. You being an example of what's possible for people, someone you know your whole life until you're 40, really being stuck in a mindset and having the courage to break through, through taking action on your fears consistently, through investing in yourself, through investing in coaching, through being willing to risk. Feeling vulnerable, feeling overwhelmed, feeling embarrassed, feeling like a failure at times and doing it consistently over the last, I guess 15 plus years now. So I really, really acknowledge it for you being a channel to share this work with the world and impacting so many people along the way, it's been a beautiful journey to watch. I'm a fan of you, your work, your books, it resonates so much with me. So I acknowledge you for the gift that you are to humanity as well. It's beautiful.

Thank you so much.

You're welcome.

It's so nice to meet you in person. You're like the easiest but you're totally kindred. You are like, you're just there all day.

Yeah. My final question is what's your definition.

Of greatness, allowing yourself to be, do and have everything that lights up your little heart.

I hope today's episode inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a rundown of today's show with all the important links and if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me as well as ad free listening experience. Make sure to subscribe to our Greatness plus channel on Apple Podcast. If you enjoyed this, please share it with a friend over on social media or text a friend. Leave us a review over on Apple Podcast and let me know what you learned over on our social media channels at Lewishouse. I really love hearing the feedback from you and it helps us continue to.

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