The Most Underrated Skill For Success & Why You Should Stop Chasing Money w/Billionaire Ryan Smith EP 1146

This is episode number 1146 with owner of the Utah Jazz and founder of Qualtrics, Ryan Smith.

Welcome to the School of Greatness.

My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

Bruce Lee said, always be yourself, express yourself, have faith in yourself. Do not go out and look for a successful personality and duplicate it. And Napoleon Hill said, think twice before you speak because your words and influence will plant the seed of either success or failure in the mind of another. So excited about today's guest. His name is Ryan Smith. I had a great time with him. He is the CEO and co-founder of Qualtrics, one of the leading platforms that helps gather and analyze data from customers and employees to use for market research, which he started out of his father's basement with his brother and his father. He was included in fortunes 40 under 40 in 2016, and Qualtrics was acquired for $8 billion in 2019. And in 2020, he's become the owner of the Utah Jazz NBA team. Ryan is also a philanthropist. He's the co-founder and board member of Five for the Fight, which is a global campaign to gather funds for cancer research by donating $5. And in this episode, we discuss a lot of different things. One is why you should stop chasing money, how to balance priorities in the pursuit of success, how hitting rock bottom in a new country all by himself transformed Ryan's life forever. The most underrated skill to have in life right now, how he became the owner of the Utah Jazz and so much more. And if you're enjoying this, make sure to share this with someone that you think would be inspired as well. You can copy and paste this link wherever you're listening to this, or use the link lewishouse.com/1146 as well as if this is your first time here, please subscribe over on Apple podcast right now. Just click the Subscribe button and leave us a review. If at any point you're enjoying this conversation. Okay, in just a moment, the one.

And only Ryan Smith.

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Welcome back everyone to School of Greatness podcast. Very excited about our guest today. We are here at the Utah Jazz practice facility with the owner Ryan Smith. My man.

What's up man?

Good to see you.

How are you?

Doing very good. Excited to connect with you. You've got to be one of the most chill, relaxed billionaires I've ever met. That you focus on your family and your wife first is what I've learned from you. what I've read about you, when I've seen you talk in other interviews, you got five kids, you care deeply about your wife, you care deeply about your faith, and you're on a mission to change lives as well. And I love learning about that. Why, how have you stayed humble in the pursuit of success and building a business that has been this massive business and now being majority owner of Utah Jazz, but also been committed to family and faith because it seems like we see most people aren't able to do both.

Yeah, I mean, so first of all, like depending on the day, you might ask my wife, she might disagree who's first and what goes on.

Right.

Because that's just part of the grind.

Of course.

But I think it's aspirational, right?

Yeah.

Like, in humble, I don't know if it's something that anyone's ever described me as, but I try my best. I think the idea is maybe like, how do you not change that much?

Right?

So first of all, that's what makes you happy. If you take family and your true North Star out of the equation, you can get lost pretty easy in this world. And I think it limits everything. I think it limits your potential. I think it limits what you can do for other people. And so for me, and my family like having faith that we know where we're going and why and when times get weird, you always have an anchor or a new start to go to is like priority number one, right? And without that, it's hard. And everyone can find that, right? In something. And then who do you want to go with? Like, I want to go with my people. I want to go with my family and my wife and like the people that we're growing with. to that destination or wherever it is we're going along the journey. And they remind you. They remind you like, Hey Ryan, everyone thinks this balance is this idea that we've got this completely balanced life. That's not what balance is. This is an airplane. One wing is in the water and all times are down. And you just gotta have people around you that are like, Hey Ryan, Like, dude, you're not bringing it this week. Or like, hey, man, this is not who I married. You've got to get that other wing up.

Will your wife call you out on those things?

Oh, yeah, for sure. All the time. I haven't seen you in a week. What's going on? Or it's been two weeks. And look, you're gonna have parts of your life, like if we've had a child, everything else shifts to the family or someone's sick, or, you know, when Qualtrics was going public, like it was off balance this way. The key is that you get it back. You keep getting it back. And it's not, if you take a look at balance within a month or a day or maybe even a quarter, you're gonna have it tilted. But you've got to look at it and say, hey, over a period of a year or six months or three months, like how how do you balance that out? And I think that we can line up to that as humans. We can't control life and what happens because one wing or one thing will always be the major. And then something else is the minor.

And it sounds like, I mean, if you're building your business and launching it, there's going to be a lot of momentum and energy for months or years building something. You're not going to have that balance with everything else in your life as well. But it sounds like if you can re-correct it and spend more time with family for a period of time, go back to business, then that's kind of been your approach, right?

Yeah, I mean, look, we started, I mean, Qualtrics was 20 years of just that, just grinding. It's grinding. Like, I mean, there's, I feel like there's very few people who went through our journey, right? Being in Provo, Utah, not raising venture capital, doing it ourselves. Like nothing was handed to us. And so, there were times where you kind of needed that correction.

Yes.

And, but what people don't understand is that correction actually charged the batteries to make you go further.

Right.

So it's a little counterintuitive that if you burn all the way, like you limited the upside of everyone, everyone around you, that you can try to impact with.

What was the mindset for you 20 years ago on building this? I'm gonna, you know, build this multi-billion dollar company, the exit, is it all about money focus and driven around that? Or what was the mindset to growing it to where it's been today?

I mean, we weren't, we didn't have a mindset. Like, I think this achieved everything that we thought it was gonna achieve probably years ago.

You didn't think that was gonna happen.

Early on. We didn't let ourselves dream. I mean, there was dreams, but when you're in it and you're in the grind, you can't see more than about 90 days in front of you.

How do we make some money? How do we get some sales?

Right, right. How do you survive? And like, yeah, we'd go through our annual planning and we'd be like, oh, wow. Like, there was no five-year vision. There might have been on our product side. Yes. But there wasn't on how does five-year, like, I don't have that now. I don't have this five-year plan. okay, for our business, this is what's gonna happen in five years. I mean, we went from raising money one year to selling a year later to IPO two years later. No one had that in their playbook.

-Crazy.

-And right, and so I think that you, we were just putting our heads down and going and staying focused and trying to execute and do it as a team and not worry about probably more than anything, like who got the credit or who was right, more that we're right or maybe we can do it. And, and I think that that's lifted everyone and every, everything. And so, so there hasn't been this, hey, this is the destination or the end point. It's been, let's just be opportunistic at every possible checkpoint that there is.

Yes.

And let's just assume that We're gonna work till we're 80. I'm gonna work till I'm 80. I don't wanna retire. I could have probably done that. Like, I'm gonna work till I'm 80. Whether I mentally have said that's what I'm gonna go do, I just know myself at this point. I keep jumping into things, whether I like it or not. So it's probably easier to say, Hey, Ryan, do you see yourself as an 80 year old or an 85 year old hanging it up? The answer is no.

Why is that?

I don't know. Because this isn't how I was as a kid. I believe that when you're building things and you're building platforms, first of all, you can do a lot of good. The scariest thing for me is when it's just me and there's not a platform, there's not a Qualtrics, there's not a jazz, there's not something else. Because the power of getting groups of people together to go do big things is addicting. And the impact that you can see that you can have is also addicting. And so, so you're saying, when you.

Mean a platform, you mean it's better to have a community, whether it's employees or a team involved, as opposed to, I've exited, I've got all this cash, and it's just me by myself. Is that what you mean?

For me, 100%. Like, no one needs that, Ryan, in the world.

What is that? What is that version?

I don't know, but like every time that's come into the cards, like, We've turned away from that very quickly. And so it's, and I think it, like if you actually think about it, it's businesses, it's organizations, it's nonprofits, it's groups of people that actually change the world.

Yeah. Right?

And, you know, sometimes one individual gets a lot of credit. But if you look at those people who we believe have changed the world, whether it's Elon or Bezos or whoever it is in whatever area, Like, there's a whole group of people that are working together on a mission. It's not one person. And so, that's addicting to me.

Sure, sure.

And, you know, that's something that, I don't know, keeps going. So saying, hey, I'm gonna go tell 80, and like, it actually makes that vision go out.

Yeah.

That we're not sitting here going, hey, we gotta do this in five years. Right.

Interesting.

I mean, I'm 20 years into QA.

So what does that do if you don't have the sense of urgency like this is going to be done in the next couple of years? You know what? If it happens at 80, that's fine. What does that shift?

Those are two different things. Okay. Because I don't think I've ever been described as someone I'm actually the opposite. If you actually look at my co-founders or people that I'm with, they will tell you that I've got too much urgency.

Right.

Interesting.

But That can also be destructive if you think it's all going away in 90 days. Yes. So, you know, part of the things that I found is the older you get in leading people and growing is you have to become really good at managing polar opposite emotions.

Yes.

All right. Give me an example. Well, like at Qualtrics, it's like, How do we grow fast but also make money?

-Yeah.

-How do you care about your people so that you're all a family but the other point, it's like you've got to actually run a business.

-Yeah. -You got to let people go and you got to, yeah.

-Or the jazz, it's like we've got to build to win this season but we also need to make sure that we have like tomorrow will come and there's another season too. Right? These are polar opposite emotions. You've got to go be fulfilled, but you also have to not turn in so you are what you do.

Right?

What I do is different than probably who I am.

Who are you?

I think we're all trying to figure that out a little bit. But it's, I don't know. I think I'm, Right now, I think first and foremost, I'm probably, you know, Ashley's husband and Jet's dad.

Yeah.

Like, hopefully, like in my head I am. And, you know, that's where I wanna be.

Yeah.

Right?

And then with that and all the things that come along with that, like, I'm a son, you know, I'm a chairman. I'm a governor here. I have all these other roles. But first and foremost, this is the one that probably will be the most permanent.

Right. Right? Yeah.

And so.

Husband and father.

Husband, father.

Yeah.

I mean, for sure. I hope. Like always, right?

Like, how long have you been here with your wife?

15 years. 15 years.

What's the greatest lesson she's taught you?

Oh, my gosh.

This week in the last 15 years.

Probably number one for Ash is if you are who you are and you're just not trying to be someone else, that the world will come around and accept you for that. You know, I've got, I've got a wife who, who. She's just who she is, and she just hasn't changed much throughout the process and, like, and just being steady throughout that actually matters. It's nothing flamboyant, it's nothing that's extravagant that's coming. It's I'm gonna be steady and I'm gonna work hard. And I think that she's kept everything grounded. She grew up in Las Vegas, both of our parents were divorced growing up. It's not like we came from this thriving, and she's just always kind of stayed that person. that's deep, but it's like, it's the core to everything because what comes out of that is like hard work matters, education matters, like there's no shortcuts. And by the way, like we're just trying our hardest. We're completely imperfect, like figuring it out, yeah. Life's messy, right? Life's been messy for us like the whole time. I think everyone wants to paint a picture that there's perfection. But like it's freaking messy, bro.

Yeah.

Especially with five kids, it's probably.

Yeah, but like everything, like my upbringing was messy. Like everything. When you found a company, it's messy.

Yeah.

You know, and everyone wants this perfection. Like we're starting a company, we've got our swag, we've got like our website, our MBA model. It's like, that's not how it's gonna work, by the way. Like it's much more of a roller coaster. Yes, and so I think that's kind of how we work together. So.

That'S cool. I want to ask you about money mindset, because it seems like you never really were in things for the money. Maybe I'm wrong here, but when someone's starting a company and they don't have a lot of money, how should they be thinking about their mindset around money in order to not make that the only obsession, but also to help them grow and build financial abundance?

It's hard. That's a hard question. Because everyone wants to be mission driven. Like there's no one I know that, I mean there are some people who are just like capital, capital, capital. I'm the world's biggest capitalist. But like I think for most people, like mission supersedes financial. But there's a lot of problems that can be solved. when you're not living check to check and you actually have food and all of that, right?

So, yeah, more strategy.

Yeah, maybe not today when you're starting a company, but when we were starting, like, you didn't, like, I didn't have enough for rent. Like, I didn't have, I mean, this is where we started in college, right?

What you were starting out of your dad's basement or something?

Yeah, like, because we didn't have enough money for an office, right? Like, all these for five years, right? And so you look at these things and ultimately, like it shapes who you are. I wouldn't trade it for the world, but I never want to go back there. Right.

Never.

You know, a lot of times people come and they say, Hey, look, I'm going to go build something. And when you're building it, you're wishing. You're wishing for the future. And, you know, for us, it was like, I'm wishing that wouldn't be cool to have a marketing department. Wouldn't it be cool that when you went somewhere and you said the name Qualtrics, actually people knew what it was. Like just something that simple, right? Wouldn't it be cool that you could hire people and you could have engineers or people to join you? Wouldn't it be cool to have like a real logo?

Right.

Right. Like you're wishing for all of these things. But what happens is, is like, especially in tech, like we get to the point where we're there and then we wish we were smaller. We wish we were back in the basement. We wish we were to start up again. It just is like this hamster wheel.

Yeah, because once you get a thousand employees, it's a lot of different problems.

Yeah, so everyone's like, oh man, I wish it was small again. I was like, well wait a minute, when you were small, you were wishing you had a thousand employees. And so how do you develop a mindset where you can wish that you're going somewhere, and then when you get there, kind of be happy that you're there and like go to the next one and the next one and the next one. I think that's how you build. But back to the question, like really when it comes down to financials, is if you kind of run that same exercise and you say, Hey look, like I want to get to a point, but it's really more about what you do when you get to that point, because you'll figure out a way to spend whatever point you get to. It's really about All right, is there a point that financially it makes me happy? Is there a point that it doesn't? For me, like once it gets to a point, like it's actually pretty underwhelming.

Really.

In the eyes of other people, like I'll give you an example. Like when we sold our company, you would think that that would be like an exuberant day.

It's a high moment, yeah.

Yeah, and reality is.

Especially when you're selling for billions.

That wasn't that. And so if you were chasing that.

That wasn't the mission for you.

We didn't really know exactly how that would impact.

Right.

Because we'd never been through it.

Yeah.

But you would think it would be this overwhelming thing. It wasn't.

What was the feeling like? It was just like, eh, another day.

Yeah, like my wife was like, Scary. It's much more around when you saw a younger employee base where folks who worked with us got to pay off a house or a car.

That's a big deal. That must have been cool.

That hits you harder than the overall thing. And so for me, that taught me a lesson.

What's that lesson?

It taught me a lesson that if you are only striving for that financial you know, goal or hurdle or whatever it is, when you get there, you will be incredibly disappointed.

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And it kind of ties in, well, if you're going to work till you're 80 and you know how long you're going to work, actually that journey is what you will look back on and say, hey, that was the mission. And so I think for us It had much more to do with wait, when that moment happened, when we did sell, who was around? Who was around? Are those the people you want to be around with? Who are you sharing it with? What's the cost that it's been to get there along the way?

The price you paid.

The price you paid, because I know a lot of people who scale one aspect of their life. and they're incredibly successful and they've sacrificed everything for that, but everything else is a disaster. And I know a lot of people who don't want to scale anything because they're afraid, you know, maybe they, in their mind, don't think that they could do it all. And so they're smart enough, they're advantageous enough, they're entrepreneurial enough, but maybe they don't want to go because they're worried or maybe they're dealt a hand on this side of the house that doesn't allow for that, whether it's health, whether it's trials of another kind. And that's okay. Like that's perfectly, I mean some of the smartest people I know and my closest friends would never go for it. Right. And other people are wired different. And so I think you've got to really focus on, if you know it's going to be about the journey, And there's times where I didn't know that. But what are you learning in that moment? And then if the advice was to someone starting, like, just trust me. Like, it's going to be about who you're with.

Interesting.

And like, what that can become in your life and like not ruin everything for it.

Right. Right.

I think you've got to scale every aspect of your life to chase what everyone's trying to chase, which is ultimate happiness. And it seems to be harder and harder with where the world's at, like to find it. Even though you might be successful or something else, it's like how do you.

Genuinely become... You may not be fulfilled inside still, yeah.

We see it all the time. Like all the time. and it's becoming even more transparent with social media. Like, it's hard.

I'm curious in your opinion, what is harder to scale? Zero to one million, one million to ten, ten million to a hundred million, or a hundred million to a billion? Which is the hardest phase?

So, I'm actually glad you brought them up that way. because if I look at a company that's gone from zero to 1 million, and then you look who's gone from 100 to 500, and you look at the company and the team, it's like a band. Oftentimes, the band in the basement or in high school, by the time they hit a big, you're like, wait, there's only one person that's still the same.

Right.

And people don't understand that.

They know the rest of the band is gone.

Yeah, there's a lot of people I know that are phenomenal at, like, you know, as Peter Tiel says, the zero to one phase, right? Yes. But maybe those aren't the right people for the one to one billion, 100 to 1 billion phase.

Right.

If you can hold it together, which, like, I feel so incredibly blessed to have been there from the zero phase to the billion phase, which will cross through a billion in revenue this year at Qualtrics. But it took 20 years. And you've got to hold 20 years together.

Crazy.

And, you know, I probably wanted to quit 20 times, right? Like, and I think I have probably like five. Like, it's just holding that together. And then to be able to also do that with your dad and your brother at some level across that Once again, like who do you want to do it with if you were to get there?

-Yeah.

-'Cause everyone's like, hey, you don't want to work with family. And I'm like, wait a minute, timeout. If you could make it work and you were able to have like some moments, who would you want to be around you?

-Right.

-Your family. -Your family? -Yeah. That's who you'd want to win with.

Mm-.

But the odds aren't in your favor.

-Why is that, you think? -Why is it hard to work with family? So in my world, how is it?

Yeah, I mean, look, Jared and I, like, we would, I mean, I recruited my brother back from Google. It was a huge thing and like, like, we did not get along for the first year. And so we got to the point where I was like, is this, is this the right thing? But then there came a point where I was like, whoa, this guy's the best co-founder in the world. He has to love me. He has to.

Yeah. Right?

And then also, He has to wake up in the morning, come back to work with me. He's not going to quit me.

-Right.

-Right? Like... And so we were able to go deeper when it came to innovation than any of the other executives we had around the table.

-Really? Why is that?

-Because our pain threshold with each other were very different. So for example, when we were in a tough situation, maybe we're on iteration 2 of a problem, like we can't figure it out the first time, have another meeting, or we go at it. You know, typically people give up. They're like, okay, uncle, I'm just gonna give you your way.

Right, right.

My brother and I could go to iteration 15 or 16.

Oh my gosh.

Right? We're like, the pain threshold was like unbelievable.

It was exhausting.

Exhausting, and stuff was said that you're like, most, you would never say, like, but we'd always come out with a different solution.

Then that was the best solution.

Then we went in with at iteration two, iteration three, iteration four, iteration five. And so I, looking back and learning from that, I believe that the iterations and how deep you can go with people are going to determine are highly, you know, relevant to your success.

Interesting.

And just because I think that.

You.

End up in a different spot.

Yeah.

What would you say would be like three rules of working with family? If you could go back and start it again, working with family, you're like, if you implemented these three ground rules together, it would support the process better.

I think people just need to know their roles, right?

Right?

Like not everyone, like my father was unbelievable. I tell this story about my brother, I remember, and we had a co-founder, Stewart, or like, I remember sitting in Sequoia Capital's office and we're sitting in front of everyone and they said, hey, we're willing to give you money. This is in 2012. We were raising the largest series a round since 2008. We were in 70 million dollars. And, I mean, the world's changed. But this was, I mean, this is 2012. And they looked at us and they said, we'll give you the money, but who's the CEO? And I thought, what is it?

Two people, three people.

We just, like, we ran it together. We just, like, we were like two in a box or three in a box.

Like, we all just You're my brother and your dad.

Me and my brother and Stuart and my dad. My dad was kind of, you know, more of like the chairman of the board. He refereed a lot, right?

There's three of you.

It was three of us. And he's like, and it was really came down to me and my brother. And I had just recruited my brother back to Google from Google. So he did not come back from Google. He was running Google China. It's pretty big. To work for his younger brother. That was not part of his plan. So it was like, all right, we're gonna do this together. Or it's not going to work.

And they didn't like that.

No, they were like, We need a CEO. And it was just crickets. Like they posed the question, it was just crickets. So here we have this money on the table, and it is quiet.

Wow.

Who's going to be the CEO? And I mean, it seemed like forever. But finally he slaps the table and gets up and he goes, I don't do media. It's him.

Wow.

Your brother says this.

Yes.

Wow.

And from that point on, that was my role. Like, I was the CEO of Qualtrics since 2012. All because he didn't want to do media interviews.

Wow.

Right?

Yeah.

But what do you think would have happened if you stepped up and said, you know what? I'll be the CEO. And you're the one who took the role.

I don't know. Well, first of all, and part of it becomes a little bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy. He then became like, all right, I'm getting ready for CEO. Like, this is what you've got to do. This is how you got to be. And he became my biggest, like, advocate.

Wow.

And so, huh? Like, we. When people would have to give me feedback on, like, where I suck, right?

He was right there, giving me feedback.

They would give it to him and he would digest it in a way. They could receive it.

Yeah.

So, like, all my 360 reviews. all through Jared.

Right.

And then he'd be like, hey Ryan, and it's your brother, it's your older brother. So it's like, let me tell you where your blind spots are.

Right.

This, this, this, this and this. And I'd be like, well what about this? So I take so much of my, like anything that I've accomplished from having that, but also the role and everything that was set up there. And so, I don't know, I think having a role and a strong role is critical with anyone, especially with a fount.

Yeah, so knowing your role.

Yeah, knowing your role.

That's number one.

Number two would be, I don't know that there's three, there's, I'm gonna tell you, there's like three lessons with the mouth.

Yeah, yeah.

I think number two is really understanding that no matter what happens, nothing's bigger than the relationships and no one's gonna get between you. I mean, we always had this rule that no one got between Jared and I.

Right?

And I don't think it ever happened. And people were always trying to get between us and break us up.

Why?

No, I don't think people would try to, but when you're dealing with thousands of people, there are certain folks that would either go to one of us or go to the other, and sometimes it would happen over and over again, right? Or there were topics that were based around people that we didn't agree on, and maybe sometimes it was always the same scenario with the same people. Everyone needed to know that this was thicker than anything else.

Got it.

Yeah.

Okay.

Right.

And I think anyone who's had a co-founder at scale, that's a common thing.

Right.

But with a sibling, like, that could. That could always be there. And then. Okay. And I think part of that's the. the third one is like, if you do it right, like, you have a chance to, like, like the upside of this is, is worth it, you know? And I have a, I have, I have a friend who's a professional athlete who, who called me about working with a family member and asked me this exact same question, and it was a critical role for this person where it be very visible, very part of him. And I said, well, first imagine when you've got the championship and it's the two of you together.

I was kind of feeling.

And it was just like, it was like a tear shed moment for this individual. I was like, but, all right, I could go the other way. Right. And so this is really like how you have to look at it.

Yeah, I feel like honest communication consistently is the only way also. It's like radical honesty.

Yeah, radical transparency is like one of the things that we have.

Really.

But that's just that trust and nothing's gonna get between you and everything's there.

Wow, that's crazy, man.

What.

I'm sure I'm assuming you have a lot of high net worth wealthy friends or acquaintances, peers. What would you say is the best strategy once you've accumulated a certain amount of wealth in order to make sure that you continue to have happiness and joy and not just like, okay, now that I've accumulated this, I'm just gonna hoard it and, you know, I'm gonna play it safe or like, what's the strategy you find to continue to build wealth and fulfillment at the same time?

I don't, I'm gonna be honest with you, I just don't think about it a lot, right? From people that I see that have done that, the ones that I admire the most are the ones who.

First.

Of all, they've kind of gotten it over time, right? It's really hard. It's really hard when someone has a life-changing moment. You see this in sports a lot where right. You go from being in college and then boom, that's hard. Like, I did not come on that journey, right? For us and a lot of the people that I know, it's been this just little by little by little and then you wake up and you're in a different spot, right? And I think that's a little bit probably easier to get acclimated than someone who gets it all at once. But when, you know, when a lot of the big tech booms were happening out in the Bay Area, there was there was always a bunch of rules. And one of them was, hey, if someone was in that spot and they were working for a Google or a Facebook and, you know, the big ship came in for them or the big bag, right? They would say, don't do anything for a year.

Don't spend it for a year.

Don't do anything for a year. Like, just don't do anything. And like, I think that's from what I've seen with a lot of people, that's pretty good. advice. Like, if you, if you like something, write it down. If you like it a year later, well, then go do it.

Yeah, right. Don't do it tomorrow.

Yeah.

But I also think that, like, you know, no one, like, that's not a defining moment of who you are, whatever it is. And then I, I think there's a, there's a quote that I've always tried to live by. It's like, don't use the people to help you get money. Use the money to help. the people.

Right?

And I think the more that that is in the vision, then you really don't care about what happens here.

Right? Right.

We focus on service.

Focus on people. And that's like, I like to work. I like to do things. Like, so as long as I'm working, then ideally I'm working on stuff that will continue to grow.

Sure.

Right?

Am I gonna do stupid things that like I wasted on? But there's probably a lot of things I do that don't make sense financially. Like this.

Right?

Like this isn't-- Buying an NBA team is not a smart purchase.

No, it's not smart. It's just like, it's not about the money.

Yeah.

What is it about for you?

I think for me and my partners, like it's about like, this is an incredible platform. I mean, the NBA is probably one of the, the biggest platforms in the world. I mean, especially in the state of Utah, like it's the platform. And like, if you look at the good that can be done from the team, if you look at the good that's happening in the NBA, if you look at everyone's response and how we've let out through COVID, if you look at how we've let out through social justice and equality, like these are things that attracted me to the NBA. I think maybe some people would probably say, hey, I I don't like we're the opposite. Like that's what we love. Like this is an incredible platform. We're putting on a show every night for people to have an experience and forget about the world for a while.

Right.

Like in when people didn't have the NBA through COVID and then they came back, everywhere I went someone said, Hey, Rye, like I forgot how much I needed that.

Oh man.

Like I forgot how much I needed that.

Those three, four hours.

There's three to four hours the experience with with my kids. It felt normal again. Like, I just loved it. I need something to cheer for. And that's pretty special. Like, for me, those are the things that drive it. And then, you know, doing something that's never been done. I mean, we want to win a championship in Utah. Like, Utah's had such an amazing growth. Like, we're the youngest demographic, like, the last 10 years, like, it is crazy the renaissance that's happened here. the demographics have changed. Like everything's changed. And so with the tech boom and, you know, I think even COVID with people trying to kind of try to figure out who they are and what they want to be when they grow up, they're like, wait, I don't know that I want to live in a 24 story high rise. Like maybe I want to come and get a yard and be in the mountains, but be close to everything and like have career opportunities. Like this is where, you know, people are starting to find like wellness, right?

In a world that's not very well.

Yeah. Right? Yeah.

That's beautiful, man. So it's been almost a year, right?

Since you've been here with the jazz, since you acquired jazz, right? Yep. Is it last October? Is that right?

Yeah, it's, I mean, it closed in December, January. Gotcha. Yeah, I mean, it's less than a year. It's crazy, man.

Yeah, it's nuts. How does it feel, though, for you? It doesn't feel like too much or you feel like, 'Cause this was a dream for a while, like an idea when you were younger of like, you used to love coming to the games.

You used to, you know?

Yeah, like Luke, like people get an opportunity, I think at times to, like if you're lucky, you could be part of the NBA in some level. But this is like my team. This is like the team I grew up with.

That's crazy, bro.

Yeah, that doesn't happen often. And so, and then once again, it's like who you wanna do it with.

Right.

It's like myself and Dwayne Wade and Ryan Sweeney and like these are my people. That makes it so much fun, right? And like, but it's a lot of work. People care about enterprise technology, but they really care about their sports.

I love it, man.

And so you're trying to do things the right way and I just hope we give people something to be proud of. like, and that's, that's it. In, in, you know, the Miller family who had owned this franchise for 35, it's such an incredible job is like, it like keeping it in Utah and doing all these things, but also, you know, second winning esteem in 35 years.

Right.

So, so if you look at that, like, there's something to be said about what you can do. I mean, we're not a small market. People view us as, we're not a small market.

Right.

We've got, like, in every other aspect, we're not a small market, and so we we need to bring, you know, the rest of that up. And I think we can help lead out in this region to do some incredible things. So that's exciting.

Where do you think winning a championship starts at?

Oh, geez. Well, so, first of all, I've never won one. And so, I mean, to be honest with you, I've talked to a lot of people who have.

What have you learned from them?

Yeah.

I mean, a lot of them. I mean, last year was kind of interesting, right? Like, we felt like we were really close and we had the capabilities.

I mean, a couple injuries, right?

Two injuries. And it's like, okay, well, like, what do you do? But I think there's a lesson to be learned. I talked to one guy who's won a couple championships, and he's like, the thing about a championship is like, you never know quite what you need.

Until.

You'Re in the moment.

Right?

You get a pretty good idea when you're, when you're not close, but when you're when you're close, like you never know how much you need. You just you just have to execute, right? You just need a little bit more.

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And I think if you look at how it played out this year with Milwaukee, that's exactly what happened. They had a little bit more at the time. At the right time. Everyone else. And that's what makes them champions. And there are people, there are players, there are coaches, there are teams, there are franchises that seem to be able to bring that every time. And sometimes it doesn't all click at the very beginning. Sometimes like you have to wait and then it clicks and boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And so I hope we get to experience that man.

Yeah, well, if you're gonna be working for 40 more years, I'm sure you will. I'm sure 40 years is a lot.

The odds are good, but it'll be hard too, right?

Yeah, of course.

There's a lot of really-- Do you.

Remember your first game? How old were you?

Yeah, it was just my grandfather and we were actually, you know, in a different place. But yeah, I remember my grandfather used to take me or he would, you know, and we'd watch, I remember more watching games. On TV or-- On TV with my grandfather.

How old were you when you-- oh.

Geez, like five, six, seven. Wow. Like I was a sports junkie, like growing up and like, he loved the jazz. Like he loved the jazz. And like, it's just like, it's kind of trippy to think that this is the spot. that you're in, like, as that little kid, like, parents would drop you off. In my case, my parents would be like, All right, you kids go, go stay with your grandfather. And he was always like, what are we gonna do? We're gonna watch the jazz game, right? We're gonna listen to hot rod.

We're gonna, like, do these things. And, like, that was, that was, like, a moment.

Did you ever think, like, I want to play with the jazz or I want to own, be the owner of the jazz? You never think about, like, being in this spot. I think we all thought, like, growing up, like, I was like, I mean, I didn't, I didn't grow up and be like, Hey, I have an idea. I'm gonna start a company with enterprise software.

Right?

That wasn't in any cards. It any, I mean, look back through what you wanted to be when you grow up. It was like, I wanna be a policeman or fireman. I wanna play on a PGA tour, and I wanna be in the NBA or whatever it is. Like, that's what I was. Like, I mean, there was a phase I wanted to be Andre Agassi. There was a phase I wanted to be Michael Jordan. There was a phase like, but it.

Wasn'T in the cards, right? I graduated high school like 5'10.

60 pounds, right? Like that wasn't happening.

Was there ever a moment where it'd be fun to be the owner of this one day? Did you ever think that growing up?

To be honest with you, things just kind of happened. It wasn't aspirational. I think in the last couple of years, I was like, look, I'd gotten really close to Adam Silver and people in the league, and I had said, whoa, this is intriguing. I see the value of the platform. I see the value of everything that we're doing.

Were they recruiting you?

No, I don't think the NBA like says, hey look, they got a long list. They don't need to recruit. Really.

Right?

Of people who would love to have a shot. There's only 30 of these, right? And so there's a lot of people who want to be involved. However, you know, I mean, they also want to make sure that people are straight, right? Like they're going to be good in that.

For the culture and the, yeah, organizations.

Yeah.

In the role?

Like, are they gonna be a good ambassador?

Right? Right.

And like, 'cause truly you are, like you are an ambassador for the league. And they go through a pretty thorough process, not only for myself, but any partner I bring in as well. Really?

Yeah.

What is that process like?

It's, like, a bunch of interviews, a background check.

Yeah, a bunch of interviews. They like know who you are. I mean, it's deep, it's detailed.

I mean, it's as thorough as any process. And I'll just let anyone with money buy the team. It's not.

Not at all.

They have to accept you almost. Yeah, for sure. It's like an application.

100%. Like, I mean, it's just like, okay, is this someone that we want that's gonna, I mean, because at the end of the day, you've got 30 groups or 30 ownership groups or governors that are, that's what makes the NBA. And, like, you're kind of all in it together. And so if you look at the people and, and the good that other groups have done, whether it's, you know, what's happened in Chicago and like the Rhinesdorf family and like, or the Bus family in LA, like, I mean, they've lifted the value and I think the Millers were one or Mark Cuban or now Ballmer and like ourselves, like, it's, it's pretty cool. It's a pretty cool group that I think is, I mean, we compete against each other pretty hard, but there's also, There's some cool. There's also some really unique folks and like with Barack Obama now coming into NBA Africa that was just announced, right? And being a shareholder in that to expand the game that way, like you're, what an amazing get, right? For the NBA. And like, that's unbelievable. Wow.

So you think you'll be working for another 40 years doing this? And do you think you'll keep the team yourself and be the main owner?

I hope so. Like, or I mean, I mean, I don't know. I mean, I don't think, I always think of us as kind of our group, but like, yeah, I mean, I'm the one that lives in Utah. But yeah, I hope so, as long as it's like, it's right.

It's fun and it's gonna grow in you.

Well, I mean, it's work, right? I don't know. It's like, hey, I'm not sitting here going, hey, this is fun. Like, I mean, it's hard, right? But if it's right, if it's supposed to be right, and like, you feel it, if it gets to a point where it's not, then. And then, look, there's going to be windows that are miserable. I mean, that's what you sign up for. Sports.

Right, right, right.

Closing scenes and losing legs to lose. I mean, we, we, you know, in business, like you measure by market share. Oh, well, you have this amount of market share. You have this. No one's going, hey, the jazz had x amount of market share. That doesn't get you any point. It's like, this is a closed market. There's one winner.

It's it.

And everyone else doesn't feel great. Right. Which is very different than a world where it's like, hey, we win six out of ten deals. It's pretty good. Yeah, we're all happy. Like, everyone's feeling great. It's just not the same game.

What do you think will be your biggest challenge that'll hold you back as a leader of the organization?

I don't know.

I don't know. I mean, it's all pretty new. I mean, I think that I think the biggest challenge that holds anyone back is just people and your ability to bring people together and make it all work. But I try to be a little more optimistic and think about what's the competitive advantage we have? What have we learned in other businesses with our group that actually is gonna make us actually be able to raise the game?

Right, right.

And.

You know, I feel like some of the things that probably would hold me back, I try to offset with my partners because maybe their strength is where I'm weak. And that was definitely the case with my brother, I think, as I've been working with Dwayne and Ryan Sweeney and Mike Cannon-Brookes, like we all kind of come at it differently. And so sometimes you need someone else to come in and help. But I think we're the good news. I mean, all of us are in our young or the youngest ownership group or group that we got together. Yeah, and that's cool.

That's very cool.

That's cool. And so I think that's...

It's exciting.

Yeah, it's fun and it's fun to talk to people who kind of see it your way. And I inherited a great organization. Are you kidding me? Like Donovan and Rudy and Quinn. It's pretty amazing.

Pretty sweet. I'm curious about your faith. And I've heard that you are extremely committed to your faith and also giving back to your faith financially. Is that accurate?

Yeah.

Tithing and giving back.

Yeah.

You've been very consistent in that process, right?

For sure.

And it seems like every time I meet or connect with someone who's accumulated a lot of wealth. They all tell me the same thing, like to give back as much as possible. And the more they give back, the more the money keeps coming to them. Would you subscribe to that philosophy or do you just feel like this is how you were raised?

No, I mean it wasn't something I was raised. I mean, like, you know, I was led on to it, but it was.

Something I decided, right? Really?

How old were you when you decided?

I was probably 18 years old.

Really? You know, I was probably down a much different path. in life that wasn't on the path now. And I said, whoa, something's gotta change.

What was that path like?

Well, I went to Seoul, Korea to teach English.

At 18.

At 17, right?

Did you do a mission for two years as well?

Yeah, afterwards.

She's taught in Korea first.

I taught at 17. Yeah, 17 years old.

Before college?

Yeah, so I went to Seoul, Korea. It didn't go the way I planned. I went over with two friends. They came home. My dad's like, Hey, you're kind of up to no good anyways, so you're not gonna, if you're over there by yourself and have to kind of hit rock bottom, it's probably a good thing.

It's good for you.

Yeah.

And, you know, a 17-year-old American in Korea, I mean, it was different. I met a couple guys in the subway and, like, ended up moving in, like, three months later after kind of sticking it out and kind of really hitting rock bottom with three people who I truly were like, Whoa, these are actually the type of people I want to be like. You know, these are people who were having fun and actually, but they were like... Clean fun. They were clean fun. And they were happy and they were witty and they were like responsible and they were successful. And I was like, but they're actually more fun than that group. And I was like, Whoa, what is that? And that's where I said, they all had this commonality and we started working and then I decided, Wait, I want to be like them. And that's when I decided, I was like, I want to go do a church mission. And you know, that process is kind of daunting because you like fill out your application and you pay for it. So I had earned enough money and my brothers would have never believed me that I was going to go do this. So I, when I, when I told them I had enough money to pay for it myself, then they're like, oh, okay, he must be serious, right? Because that's, that's just how they are. But, you know, we, we did that and I got called to Mexico City.

Mm-.

So I went from Seoul, Korea to Mexico City.

So how old were you at this point? I was 19.

So you were a year and a half in Seoul? Yeah, I was a year in Seoul and then like teaching English.

Teaching English in six months and then.

Went so straight from Korea, you went to Mexico City. So from 17 to 21, I was only in the U.S. for like a four month period. Four to six months, right? And there I land, I don't know Spanish, I land with, you know, and you pair them up in twos and like, like, the first guy that I was paired up with was like, he came from a little farm town in northern Mexico who spoke no English, like, really? And I spoke very little Spanish. And I'm in the hills of Mexico City. Like, I'm in an altitude, it's free.

Oh, yeah. It's hard to breathe there.

Yeah, and I was just like, whoa, like, and that's where kind of like, there was just, you know, you do that enough and like, I was there for two years and I was all Mexico City. I came back a different human, right? I came back and for the first time ever, I wanted to go to college. I was a high school dropout before that. I wanted to go to college. But you can't walk in being a high school dropout who might have had a college or high school certificate and say, Hey, I want to go to a top university. They're like, Where's your ACT? Where's your SAT? I had none of that. I think I had like a 2.0 GPA or a 1.0 something because I just, my parents had got divorced in high school. Like it was a mess. Like in my life, it was a mess. And so I came back in and within six months, I was at BYU, top university, got into the top 15 business program and started Qualtrics, met my wife and like the world took off.

Wow. Right?

And so if you look at the before and after for me, it's like it's night and day.

Right?

It's like not even like that world was not for me and I became a world where like everything started going better. everything started going right. And one of the things that was part of that is like you talk about giving back or doing, I mean this concept of tithing where you give like one out of every $10 you make. When I made no money, I decided like at 21 when I started making a little money, hey, I'm gonna do that program.

-Wow.

-And it seemed to work pretty well, right?

-Even when you didn't have a lot.

-Yeah, yeah. It's exactly when you started. And so I kept asking myself, along the way. If I was 21 and I was doing that program, why when I'm 24 and I have a little bit more, am I too good for it now? Why when I'm 30 and the check size is bigger, am I too good for it? If I change so much that if it's a million dollars that you're giving that that changes your decision when at 21 it's the same ratio.

Interesting.

And for me, it's actually become something that I enjoy.

Really?

Because I'm scared when the day comes when if the check size makes me change the same person size.

Now, it's, it's, I hear the other point of the, the, the coin where people say, you know what? I'll do that when I start making more. when I can afford to do that, because right now I'm not making that much. Why should people be contributing in some way to some, whether it be charity or church or whatever, when they have very little, when they're like, I'm just trying to get by month to month right now. Do you think it's important then still or wait until you have savings and some money in the bank?

Well, so I think there's a lot of different philosophies and a lot, and I'm never one to tell people how to live.

Right. Right.

And I think everyone needs to go on their own path. You know, I told you my path.

Yeah.

Right. But there are some observations and some learnings that. That I've taken on my path. Number one is how do you know you're gonna be at that day?

Right.

You may never get there.

You may never get there.

So you may never.

And I have too many friends who.

Have never gotten there, and they are never giving back.

Yeah.

Second, I think it makes you better on the path. And it's much more habitual. We are creatures of habit.

Yes. It's automatic.

I think, at least for me personally, I would struggle personally with my kind of persona of just who I am if I had to go develop the muscle later. And at least I wasn't trying to do it throughout.

Yeah, yeah. Interesting.

But I've also seen people who have waited, waited, waited, and then flip and focus 100% of their talents on giving and they impact and change the world.

Right.

You know, I think Bill and Melinda did a really good job on that when people used to criticize them.

Then it was like the other way around.

And then it flipped to where Warren Buffett's handing them all their money. Right, right. And so those two, you know, right or wrong, have actually done a pretty good job at giving, I mean, malaria and everything else. It's pretty, it's pretty, if you actually study it, it's pretty incredible.

Yeah.

Education, everything else. However, like, I don't anticipate or believe that there wasn't this, like, somewhere in their line, they were developing a muscle to be able to go do that.

Right.

And so, but I, I don't, There's not, it's got to be personal or it doesn't matter anyways, right? Everyone's got to go on their personal journey on what they think is good. The one thing I would say is sacrifice to where it hurts a little. If it doesn't hurt you, then like it's not a sacrifice.

What does that do for you when.

You'Re like, E, that's a, It's a good litmus test.

Like it's good.

Like if you're too comfortable all the time, then you're like for me, and my mentality, like it doesn't make it so that you actually want to go achieve something. Like I believe if I'm a little uncomfortable all the time, then it's a good thing. Really? Keeps me going.

Yeah, it's smart.

If I'm too comfortable, I'm like, this is great. You'll never hear me ever be like, oh, things are going great. Oh, how's Qualcomm? It's going great. Like, how's it going great? Like, it's never, I've never said that. And I'm often around people who are like, how's it going? Oh, our startup's so amazing. I was like, what am I missing? Because, like, we're for, you know, it's, I've never said that. Like, there's always, for me, just a level of uncomfortableness that we continue to put ourselves in that make us, like, always feel like it's, and that's growth.

Absolutely.

That's great.

I wanna ask you two things about the living in Korea. I mean, you didn't speak the language, I'm assuming, right? And so you're teaching English to people that don't speak English and you don't speak the language. What lessons do you learn from that process of like getting people to give you money who don't speak English that.

Wanna learn English to-- so with Korea, something clicked in my head because you're right. You've got, you're trying to survive. You're over there. There's not many folks who are like you because you're a foreigner, and especially where I was. And you've got to go figure this problem out. That's crazy. And there's really a good chance that you're not gonna get it right the first time. And so for me, what really clicked was a process. And a process that Ryan for the first time, you have an idea, it's on you and only you to go execute it. And if it fails, go do it again. And go to a different idea. And I kind of found myself. I kind of for the first time ever had to put my own brain and ideas to work and be able to get feedback in the moment of like, hey, that's a bad idea. Whether it was teaching kids and what would work to where they would understand.

And you weren't a trained teacher either. You weren't like taught how to teach English.

But like even back to how do you even get people to want to have to be a teacher?

Right?

And I remember going to this huge apartment complex and like I had this idea because You know, there was just these huge buildings where people lived. And there was like 50 of them in a row, right? Because real estate was so expensive, like no one had a house, right? And so you'd go down to the basement of these places where you'd go in and there was just like a hundred mailboxes. And I thought, wow, I bet if I put my number in a note in every mailbox, like someone would call.

That says like, if you want to learn English.

Yeah, like I'm in the area, I'm an English teacher, like I'm here. But like it seems so obvious, but it wasn't. Like no one was doing it.

No one was doing it. How many calls did you get by doing that?

Well, like I did that and then like the man's like, hey, you can't put the person, whoever the person was, you can't solicit in there. And then like, so that didn't work. Well then I went back and So I changed my model. Like I went and talked to the guy first, or the woman first, and said, Hey, let me tell you what I'm trying to do. And every one of them let me do it.

That's interesting.

Right?

Are you speaking in English to them?

Yeah, I try whatever I could, right? Hand motions, everything else. And then it was crazy because back then I had a pager, right? And that was it. 'Cause when people would call back, I couldn't speak to them anyways.

Yeah.

'Cause I didn't speak Korean. So I had to get a Korean.

Speaker to respond to the page.

Oh my gosh.

Right.

So I didn't think that far through it, right? Well, my pager started, like, I had 13 messages that day. No way.

The day you started the first day.

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Travel time.

Yeah, smart.

And so, but it was like four or five different iterations of this.

It was in one building.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. In that idea process, and they were all friends, and they all knew each other. It was great.

Wow.

So that's why, and the experience was totally different over there after that. But it was an idea that wasn't intuitive that like, and then I thought it was over when I couldn't put those in the boxes and then like, you didn't give up and try it and you innovate it and you go. And that's kind of how the world goes. Like everyone thinks that like growth is gonna be the straight line up and if it's not like that, it's not the lottery ticket that you're hoping for, that you want to go that's going to liberate whatever it is you're working on.

Right.

Well, actually it's not how it goes. Like you normally go and then you hit the wall. Then you got to slide over and go up again. And so like actually if you if you zoomed in on a chart like this and you actually looked at it really closely, it would be like this.

Sure, sure.

Right, but it would always be going forward. And that's what I've seen. Like, I'll give you a great example of Qualtrics. Like, we started Qualtrics by targeting academics, which is not a great market, right? You've got academic professors who have all day long to use your product and give you feedback, right? Nowhere to go.

Yeah.

And they have no money, which is like the worst business model you would ever come up with.

Right.

But what they're not to know, these people have to go get published. And we were selling a software where they get feedback and they get data and then they publish it. We're like, it's perfect. So we go to the top of the university and we're like, hey, we have something that all your professors can use. This is a no-brainer. All the money you're spending, you're gonna say, no one bought it. Like, no one wanted to make that decision. Well, then we went to the business school and we talked to the dean of the business school and they're like, no, no one would have made that decision. So here we are with two ideas that seemed logical, but it wasn't working. then we went to the head of the marketing department. Well, that didn't work. So we're like six months in and oh for three. Like once again, like are you willing to push to iteration, iteration, iteration, iteration? Well, we ended up getting, I remember I get one professional, Professor Angela Lee at the Kellogg School of Business. And Angela Lee signed up on Qualtrics. And then she told her department head, to buy it.

So you got a professor that then went up, not up down.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And so you're starting at, like, 500 bucks, if that. Right. And then you go up, and then the department had told the school to buy it, the business school, and then the business school bought it, and then another school bought it, and then three years later, I'm back at the university level, right? Saying, hey, we're back. Now do you want to buy it? Because here's everyone who's coming. And they're like, absolutely.

Yeah.

And so our thesis and our model was right, but the way to get there was three years off. Because we had to go this way.

Right.

Well, then we said, okay, where are the other Angeloles out there? And Angela told someone at, you know, at Wharton and then Columbia and then Duke and then Cambridge and like all over, and the next thing you know, we have you know, 700,000 academics a year that are graduating trained on our platform.

It's amazing.

But it started out with a idea that was directionally right, but the execution had to be different.

Yeah.

And so it's no different than the putting the flyers in the box. That's what happened in Korea is that modeling or process actually became real.

Wow.

That's amazing.

That's incredible.

I'm curious about your mission. You got to Mexico City and the mission's two years, right? And you get to only speak to your family like twice a year or something?

Yeah, now that's like every week.

Now you can FaceTime once a week, but back when you were doing it, it was like twice a year and you didn't get to visit for two years. What would you say were the three biggest lessons from just being planted into a new country, new city, new language, having to learn the language, having to enroll people in a vision With the language you don't understand and get rejected over and over and over again. What are those two years?

The number one lessons is I would give anything for my kids to go through that.

Oh, yeah. The greatest gift probably, right?

The greatest gift because as much as I was able to help and talk about families and like direction and North Star with a lot of people, the real beneficiary of all that was me. I grew up fast.

It's like 20 years in two.

And my, like, what an incredible system, right? Like, I mean, you got a bunch of 19 year olds out there, like, rolling around, like, trying to speak a language. I mean, that's young and, like, we're doing, it's like, I so impressed. And then the organization of it all and, like, it's, it's, it's one of the coolest things I've ever seen in any organization. I've seen organizations all over the world. We had 50, that is one of the coolest things I've ever seen. And I still to this day pull from the organizational design and the motivations and like how it all worked. And then it's also the only time that I learned that true focus on one thing changes how you work on that thing.

When there's no other option.

Yeah, the reason, you know, and I think all the kids now can call home or FaceTime every week. I actually feel bad. I mean, I understand why, but I feel bad because going four weeks only with one mission of serving and helping other people and doing it in a region, like I found gears, I had no clue I had.

-Wow.

-Like no clue I had.

-Focus and energy and resilience.

-Focus and energy and resilience and like... -Creativity. -In like waking up and the ideas and like how you're going to differentiate. what you're gonna do and where are you gonna go that day and listening and like going, where am I supposed to be right now? And like, I find out that everything I learned in that actually came out later throughout our 20-year journey. At one point or another, I was like, hey, I've been in this spot before.

You tapped into it.

I tapped into it. And that's, and you have a breakthrough.

Wow.

And so I think that, I think that like, I don't know, like I would have never known, I mean I was told by someone early on that like, you know, you're gonna be a spot, and someone told me as an 18 year old, you'll be a spot where you'll speak in front of people and you'll do all these things. And like, I was like, no, I won't. Like that's not in the cards.

Right, that was not it.

I've never spoken in front of 50 people in my life. And then like, you find like doing that in Spanish.

It's crazy man.

Then to go sit up in English. Like it's crazy. Like it's like, yeah, I can do this. So I think for me it's kind of been a process the whole way. But it also hasn't been perfect. Like if you follow it in any moment, it's like, okay, once again, back to that wing of the plane. It's down, it's messy. and people might look at it now and be like, well, look, what's happened? It's like, no, it's messy. Like, the whole thing's messy. And so I think that operating with that ambiguity is been something you learn because in Mexico, you have to operate successfully without like everything spelled out. And often nothing's gonna go right.

Never.

And everything you plan is not gonna go right. And so that's, that's, I mean, I can't explain how valuable that's been. And then to have one of the other kids that were there with me become a co-founder of Qualtrics.

No way. That was one of the, oh wow, that's great.

And I had a lot of other friends that we were in college that were watching Qualtrics go, and none of them wanted to make the jump.

But he did.

But he operated beautifully in ambiguity. He actually thrived in it.

Wow.

And he was used to it.

And it worked out well.

Where do you think he'd be right now if he didn't do that two-year mission?

Everything good I have in my life, from my family, my wife, school, business, everything was tied to that.

Wow. That's crazy.

Call it what it is. I mean, for me, I mean some people it's not that clear, but for me, like where I was at 18, 19, and where I was at 21. Anyone who knows me knows that. Anyone who was there knows that.

-Transformed your life.

-Yeah. This isn't like, hey, I'm going back and have this revisionist history. Like, everyone knows that. My family Wing-nose. Like they had me, they had already pegged me down a different path. Wow. They had, they had, like, I was the one of the four brothers that they were most worried about.

Yeah. Right? Yeah.

And so to actually have a, you know, a 36, you know, 54-month transformation, it's pretty amazing. It's pretty cool.

What do you think is the greatest investment you've made in yourself? besides investing in that? And what do you recommend to other people that maybe aren't going to invest in a mission? What's the greatest personal investment they can do?

I think it's a general one. Like you, like for me, in that CEO moment of my brother, when he decided that he wasn't going to do that, and I was, I kind of was like, damn, I have to be the fastest learner in the building.

-Oh, man.

-I have to learn faster than everyone. I have to act like I've been there and then figure out how to cram and like make it real so I have to learn. That has been the number one lesson is I would much rather bet on someone who's a fast learner than someone who knows stuff. -Ooh. -Because if the world's going to be ambiguous and messy. -It always will.

It's always going to be changing.

-You always want the fastest learner.

-Interesting.

Right? Because if someone knows one playbook or has been there before, sooner or later, you're gonna get out over the water and you're gonna like have to drop if you don't know it. But if you're actually a fast learner, you do it. So my thought on what the best investment is, is like first of all, broad, like be in learning mode all the time. And like, I know people, like it's funny, my brother, like he has this crazy list of folks that he loves to go hang out with and he like wrote them down like all the people that he will drop anything to go no matter where he's at, no matter what city he is to go be with. -Wow. -Because he learns a lot from them. -And he's like, there's 70 people that I have in my life that I will like drop in. I was like, am I on the list? Right? Like and he's like, they're always in learning mode. -Interesting. -And they're trying to like, it doesn't matter how successful they are, they're curious, they're interested, It doesn't matter whether the person's rich or poor or successful or not successful or how old they are. They're trying to learn from, oh, you know, I was just talking to your kid and, you know, she's five and I just learned that, like, they're learning.

Wow.

They're trying to get something out of it. And then, you know, another commonality is they have a great deal or an ability to introspect. Introspection. not only in yourself, but what's going on in the moment.

Yes.

Is really powerful.

Yeah.

So, like, you know, reflecting, being aware.

Reflecting, but actually learning from it.

Oh.

And implementing, integrating.

Yeah.

Implementing. And so, like, okay, what. What holes did someone else fall in that I don't have to fall in? And by the way, why do I always have to look out at someone else? What did I learn last week about my ride.

Yes.

And what happened?

It's good lessons.

So, I think that that's where it becomes very powerful is like when those people can start learning from themselves in the ride.

You've done a lot of good that people are aware of. You know, you do a lot to give back to cancer research, investing back that and back in your church, you know, your community, you're very well known and respected here. in Salt Lake and Utah community. What's something that you're proud of that most people don't know about you?

I don't really think that way. And I try not, I don't care that, like, I just, I feel like I just want to go work. Yeah. And kind of look back at the end and be like, if I get there.

Yeah. Right.

If there is an end and be like, all right, was it good?

Yeah.

Like, I think too many people are way too focused on Legacy. We can't control our Legacy.

Right.

You know, name the. Name the number one business person in 1700s.

Yeah.

I mean, the number one in the world. Like, I don't know, 1800. I don't know.

Right.

There might be two in 1900. We're like, okay, great.

Or, like, that's not after 100 years. It's like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like, so that's not a legacy. And so many people are like, what's the. what's the Smith like? Like, I don't just go be a good person and like do good in the moment and try to like help, but at the same time, like go make a difference and like try your hardest. Like I am super, super, super imperfect and like I think that like people just, I'm just trying my hardest. Just like everyone else.

That's great, man.

Right? And so I think for me, like, I don't know, I think we've done a lot recently, I mean, it's been out there, it's public on our LGBTQ+ like everything that we're doing around equality. There's a lot that goes on behind the scenes that people don't see. But like, you know, at Qualtrics, at Qualtrics, what's so crazy about where Qualtrics has evolved to, we're the experience management company. We have the ticker symbol XM. And if everything that I'm trying to help with philanthropically has to do with getting rid of a bad experience. And so I would have never thought that this business ended up to intersect with that business. Like we help companies gather feedback to improve an experience whether they fly on a plane. But cancer is a really bad experience. And no one wants the phone call. And you've all had it. Everyone's had it. Or if they don't, they will. And you don't know what to do. And the person who gets it, like, there's nothing you can do. We gotta do better at that. We've gotta make it so it's like, that sucks. I'm sorry. But we all know you're gonna get better. And there are parts of cancer that are at that point now. All right, so what can we do? And it's all about research. We gotta have breakthroughs. Right? Systemic racism, horrible experience. I can't imagine. I can't even imagine. It shouldn't exist still. How do we get rid of it? What are the things we're gonna do? And why? And that's what, I mean, to be honest, I love about the NBA and their platform.

Yeah.

Like they're leading out on it. and it's working.

Right.

And it's slow.

Right.

And there's so far to go.

Yeah.

But watching change, that's a bad experience. All right. If you're a transgender youth, what a hard experience. It's got to get better.

Yeah. Yeah. Right.

And so to be in a spot where we're helping businesses, but also that's come. And so. I feel like when it comes to what I want to do, whether people know about it or not, it's be a part of things that are bad experiences and say, Hey, man, we're gonna work on the gnarly stuff.

Yeah.

Because like, those are three gnarly, gnarly... I mean, cancer is not for the faint of heart if you're gonna go work on it.

No, it's not fun.

Especially if you're gonna raise money to that problem or bucket called cancer.

Crazy.

Like, that's hard.

Yeah.

But we're doing it every little step of the way. And if we wouldn't have started 10 years ago, we wouldn't have been where you're at now. Where we're at now.

Yeah. Yeah.

That's beautiful. So how can people get involved in the charities and the work you're doing? How can they connect with you personally or websites or Would like for me.

Just I'm at Ryan Qualtroughs on Twitter. That's that's about all I'm doing handle more than that between email and that like right, but just DM me, right?

And then and the cancer if someone.

Yeah, fight for the fight like fight for the five five for the fight.

Five for the fight.

Yeah, and so here's what's crazy like we started like this is how this is this is a crazy story, bro. Tell me here's a great story so The Utah Jazz contacted me at Qualtrics and said, hey, we actually were bidding out the stadium signage on who would sponsor the stadium. And I was like, whoa, that'd be cool if it was Qualtrics Arena.

Nice.

Right? We didn't get it. A month later, they called and said, hey, the NBA is gonna open up a patch on the jersey. And I was like, whoa, Qualtrics would be on the jersey. That'd be cool, right? So we get down the road, I'm super interested. No one's ever done it before. It's gonna be multiple millions of dollars is how we're gonna go. And at the same time, we had started this foundation called Fight for the Fight. And we had this idea that we're gonna get everyone to give $5 for cancer. Instead of like, okay, rather than one $20 million, which a lot of people do, it's like you need the big wells to come in and do that.

No, no, like five bucks.

This is everyone's fight. 10 million people do it. There's $50 million. Like, listen, we're all, you know. And we're about ready to ink the deal on the Qualtrics side. And Mike, who works with me, and like we're, he goes, Ryan, like, we have this principle at Qualtrics called All In. Like, nothing good happens unless you're all in.

Right?

And this is like the mission. Why the mission's so good is like you're all in. Korea was so good. I was all in. I couldn't turn back. Right. and if you think about it in your life, like, unless you're all in, like, nothing good is going to happen.

Right.

No relationship is going to go well. And so that's another conversation. Like, you got to go all in on whatever you're doing, right?

Yeah.

He goes, so are we all in on cancer? I was like, what do you mean? He's like, we're all in on cancer. We're putting it on the patch.

Wow.

And I was like, whoa.

Like, I want to see Qualtrics.

You're like, that would look cool. Like, this is the sacrifice, this is the pain. Ooh, you're like, ugh. And we called the league and the league was like, no, just put a logo on there. We're not putting a nonprofit on there. You're not raising money on this. And the jazz and the Millers like dug in. They were like, no, this is like.

What we want to do.

Like we want to do this. And so we were the first sponsorship in professional sports to actually have a.

Non US professional sports to have a nonprofit on there. That's sick, right?

That's so it wasn't my idea. I'll be honest with you.

You didn't want to do it. You were like, you guys want to put a call center?

Like, ultimately, I made the decision and I went to our board and said, hey, this is the most expensive marketing campaign we've ever done. And there's no mention of our name on it. Oh, man. They literally forgot that I lost my mind.

Oh, my gosh.

I mean, it was the most expensive campaign by probably 3X.

Oh, and you got zero direct benefit.

Zero direct benefit.

Oh, man.

Well, we've ended up raising close to $30 million.

Wow.

And it's still, I remember the first year, like Donovan Mitchell won the slam dunk contest and it's like fight for the fight. And like, you have this first thought, second thought. And the second thought's always right, but your first thought as a human being is like, whoa, like, but it's become such a powerful thing that there's no, there's no first thought anymore.

Wow.

It's always the second thought. It's always like, This is right. And that's beautiful. Adam stood up in front of all the governors and the ownership of the league and said, and talked about this.

That's cool.

And who would have known that that is where I developed a relationship with the Millers to be here.

That was before.

That was before. That was before my first affiliation with Utah Jazz. Didn't even have season tickets.

When was this a couple years ago or is this... Yeah. Wow. That's crazy.

So, I don't know that we'd be here for that. For one, for that.

For that sacrifice and that commitment to service.

Getting to know them and like them going, All right, we're gonna partner and having trust. Because they could have sold the team to so many different people.

Yeah, of course.

And they came and said, no. They all came and said, this is for you. you and Ash and you're like, let's go.

That's amazing. That's an inspiring story. And that's fiveforthefight.org. So we can go there and they.

Can donate and learn more about what you guys are doing. Yeah, five bucks and start a fight for the fight campaign. There you go.

Right?

Like we have high schools that like have fight for the fight on their jerseys. Amazing. They do something, any project, like any kid they want to do a project, do a fight for the fight campaign. Five dollars for cancer. You take five for the fight, brand it yourself, do it, do it, you know, you could do anything like Laguna Beach fight for the fight campaign. That's what it is a crowdsourcing and it all goes to cancer research. We don't take a dime. The patch isn't paid for it. We donated the patch. And our goal is to raise $50 million in 10 years. And that's not, we'll do more than that. But we want to do it through five and small at a time because it brings everyone to realize it's our cause. The community.

Yeah, it's beautiful, man. I love the mission. I love the story. This is a question I ask everyone towards the end of our interviews and it's called the three truths question. So it's a hypothetical scenario. I'd like you to imagine that you've been working for 40 more years and you've got another however much longer to live, but for whatever reason it's your last day. And you've got to take all of your messages and work It's got to go with you to some other place. No one has access to this information or anything you've ever shared before. It's all gone. But you get to leave behind three things you know to be true or three lessons from your life with the rest of the world. I call it three truths. What would you say are those three truths for you?

So would other people read them?

Yes. The world would have access to this, but this is all they would have access to. No other lessons from your messages or videos or audio or books or anything. It'll all be just this.

I mean, one of them would probably be like, what really mattered? Like, it would probably be like, and I've seen enough people that are close to the end who have kind of gone through something like that.

Yeah.

And their truths are like, people matter.

Mm-.

And the people around you. And I think, that's, that's something that we lose track of.

Yeah.

People matter.

People matter. Number two is it's about the journey. The journey is the destination.

Of course.

And I know that that seems really obvious, but like, that's 100% true.

Yeah.

And then probably number three is like, God is real.

Yeah.

Like it has to be right. And so like, that's where that is.

So I have one final question before I ask the question, Ryan, I want to acknowledge you for just being a, you seem like the realest guy. You seem like a realest guy who has put yourself through different scenarios to overcome, transform, grow up at different stages of life and also give back in a big way. And I think that's really inspiring. You're a great model for what's possible being a great father, great husband, great man of service as well. So I really acknowledge you for constantly showing up.

I'm not supposed to be here.

Right.

But you made it happen.

Well, we showed up to the work. We got to continue making it happen. Consistently doing the work, man. It's amazing. You just put your head down and go and like, try to be normal.

It's amazing, man. I appreciate your normalness. It's really cool. Final question for you.

What's your definition of greatness? Well, so first of all, I think it's, what is your definition?

Right?

You, you ask the question the right way.

Yeah.

And I think too many people believe that someone else's definition is what your greatness should be is how to talk about that. Don't let anyone else ever determine what your successes.

Yeah.

Because this is, you have your reasons for doing things and. I think that if you focus on that. But for me, it's like if I'm in that last moment or whatever, and first of all, people are at my funeral must do something.

Right?

Right. Like, you know, we talk about, like, sacrificing everything to the point where it's like, hey, like, great. You were successful. You did all this, but no one wants to go to your funeral. Right, right. Like, I mean, that's a good. Lipness test. Right. And. And you go to funerals and, like, back your way into it. Go to someone's funeral, listen to what's said, and ask yourself, like, what's going to be said about you?

Right?

Like, what did you... And often it's the quiet people who might not be the most confident out there. They just go around this earth that you might not think they... And then you show up and like, There's 500 people that had the exact same experience when you thought it was just you and you're like, Whoa, that person just was on a mission. And they said hi to everyone. They stopped by everyone's house. They did all of these different things. That was who they were and you're like, oh my word. Like they were dialed in. Like they knew, like they were on this journey that I only saw one 1,000th of it.

Right.

But they did it to everyone. I thought I was special and had this special relation and then everyone had it.

Wow.

And you're like, whoa, that's scaling. That's like, that's. And you've seen that. Like, I mean, like, whether it's like, okay, was Kobe greatness? Like, look at the people that, like, he impacted.

Yeah. Right.

Or look at, like, quiet people.

Right?

And I don't know. I just, I think it's just, just try your hardest every day.

Yeah.

And like, you know, get a little uncomfortable.

Mm-.

And I think that you'll probably be in a good spot.

There you go. Thanks, man. Appreciate it, bro.

Thank you so much for listening to this episode. If you enjoyed it, the conversation with Ryan, make sure to share this with a friend. You can copy and paste the link. You can share this link anywhere on social media or text a friend right now. And if this is your first time here, click the Subscribe button on Apple Podcasts or Spotify right now, as well as leave us a rating and review and let us know the part you enjoyed most about from this conversation with Ryan. And I want to leave you with this quote from Albert Einstein, who said, strive not to be a success, but rather to be of value. And I believe that's what this life is all about. It's about being of value. and the more valuable you become for other people, the more successful you'll become in return. And I want to remind you, if no one has told you lately, my friend, that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. I'm so grateful for you. I hope you enjoyed today's show. And as always, you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.

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