The Real Reason You're Broke (It Has Nothing to Do With Lattes) | Mrs. Dow Jones

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Money relationships are basically set by the time you're 7 years old. If you're someone who's living with a lot of money shame, yeah, you're responsible for a lot of this. But there's also a lot of forces outside of you that are causing you to feel like this about your finances. And so the best thing that you can do is empower yourself financially so you can make your own money, because that's going to let you be able to live your own life.

The Wall Street Journal calls her the financial guru millennials listen to, and And she's a financial educator and author of the new book, Future Rich Person: The New Rules for Building Wealth. We have the inspiring Hailey Sax in the house.

We live in an age of frictionless finance, which is very dangerous because people use spending as a form of emotional regulation. Right now on our phones, it's never been easier to use Apple Pay like Apple be paying. Not only that, we are the most advertised to generation ever.

Crazy, right?

Yeah. Our parents saw 500 ads a day. We see 5,000.

5,000 a day? Yeah.

Oh my gosh. It's so aspirational in our culture to spend money, show off how much money you have. But what about aspiring towards like maxing out your Roth IRA, towards negotiating your salary? I wanted it to feel fabulous, so I couldn't find that person, so I became her.

What is the biggest challenge they'll face and the biggest opportunity that they'll have as well in their favor?

So I would say—

What would you say are the 3 rules to become a future rich person?

So I would say the 3 rules to become a future rich person: Number 1, you have to figure out your money mindset.

Mm-hmm.

And that is why the first chapter of the book is simply called Face It, because, you know, I can give you all of the financial advice in the world, but none of it is going to stick. You're never going to make any actual changes if you do not figure out the root of your relationship with money and then set up systems and have awareness towards acting differently. So that's really the first step.

And something you say around that, you say when you lean into your biggest wound, that's where the magic happens. And the moment I stopped avoiding my finances and took control, my whole life shifted. Something you said in the book.

Yeah.

So it was really kind of like this aha moment. Than realizing I need to create a new mindset around money and take control of my finances. Okay, so money mindset's one. What would be the next rule?

So then the next rule is really understanding how to utilize your action money. So action money. Yeah. So I coined this term in the book, and that is the money that you, uh, have left over after your expenses. And, you know, it doesn't matter who you are. You could be, you know, Warren Buffett, or you could be like, you know, someone not Warren Buffett. Most of us aren't. But if you don't have that action money left over that then you can play with to grow wealth with, you're never going to make progress financially.

And so you have all your expenses, you calculate that, and then everything left over— is this everything left over minus the lattes and going out to dinners, or is this just everything left over?

Well, you know, I do believe that you need to leave room in your budget for fun.

Yes.

Or your financial life will never be sustainable. Then you're gonna be the person who's rewashing their paper towels and who's, you know, I coined the term in the book also, financial energy, which, uh, you know, we all have a finite amount of energy each day. I mean, I feel like I wake up and I think every day that I'm gonna like run a marathon and like start a new company and like, you know, like donate to every charity and get my whole to-do list done. And then by 4:00 PM I'm like, okay, wanna get into bed? Can I have a cookie? Like no one bother me.

Yep.

You know, because you wake up with all the gusto in the world and it goes away. And I think that a lot, a trap that people fall into with their finances is that they have that burst of energy towards wanting to change, which is so great. And it's something that you should absolutely hold on to and garner. But you have to understand how to put it to work so it will actually move the needle. And so much of the financial information, especially fed to women, is about using that financial energy towards things that don't matter.

Like what?

Like the avocado toast or the latte. Or, you know, I read something about Don't buy pre-chopped vegetables at the store. You should always chop them yourself. What about learning to negotiate? What about, you know, understanding compound interest? What about spending that energy to improve your skills so that then you can put yourself in the position to be paid more? When you look 10, 20, 30 years down the line, that is what's going to move the needle for you more than that $5, $10, $20 that you saved along the way. That being said, if you are overspending, which many people are, that's something that you have to deal with. We live in an age of frictionless finance, which is very dangerous because people use spending as a form of emotional regulation. And right now on our phones, it's never been easier to use Apple Pay, like Apple Pay. Not only that, we are the most advertised to generation ever.

Crazy, right?

Yeah. Our parents saw 500 ads a day. We see 5,000. So more actually.

$5,000 a day?

Yeah.

Oh my gosh.

Yeah. So there's all these things that we're told that we need to buy and it feels impossible to hold on to your finances, you know?

Yeah. What was the— in the first year after you had your financial aha moment, what was the biggest mistake you made even though you knew you shouldn't have done it? Like something you're like, okay, I'm going to do this anyways because I feel like there's an opportunity or it's cool or— try this out, even though you knew it went against like the new rules of money you were learning about?

Oh my God, I have so many because I like— that's what I talk about in the book too, is like I've made so many mistakes. I'm not that financial expert who like, you know, I feel like people think that in order to be good with money, you have to have like a certain personality type. And I am clear in the book, like I'm the girl who probably is bringing her passport to the bar because I, I don't know where my license is. You know, I was on a date last week, my hair caught on fire. Like, it's like things like this always happen to me. Like, it's like I'm not, I'm not the girl with the hair washing schedule and the perfect handwriting and all these things. And so, you know, in that first year, I still was struggling a lot with wanting to look rich instead of being rich.

Really?

And I still struggle with that. And it's something that I, you know, have learned to devalue in my mind, like designer goods and things like that. But I still get caught in it sometimes.

But what's the difference between looking rich and being rich?

Looking rich is like when you're, you know, just wearing a ton of designer logos and you want to stunt and make people think that you have this illusion of wealth. And there's actually, Lewis, influencers who— The New York Times just did an article on all these influencers who teach you how to look rich. So they like tell you to wear, you know, neutral colors and, you know, like to dine a certain way and all these things. But, and to me, that has to do with learned financial helplessness, because if you feel like the system is out to get you and there's no chance to win, you start looking for cheat codes to get you there faster. And sort of faking rich is the way to do it.

Really?

Yeah. But then when you actually see really rich people, they don't care about that stuff. They're so casual. They, you know, they're driving a Jeep. They've like, they've got like a few hobbies that they really enjoy. They love their family. You know, they're like, they're donating, they're, you know, they have time to themselves, they invest in their health, but they don't care about like, oh, this is my Louis Vuitton bag or whatever. It's really about buying back your time and health.

Health and time.

Yeah, that's— those are the two biggest assets.

What would be like a few key signs of people who are trying to project, project that they're rich versus people that are wealthy, the signs that they have?

Okay, so in that first year, I got a check that I thought was like life-changing, um, that was $3,000. And not only did I buy a Louis Vuitton bag, but I bought one where it has the LV enlarged. So super big.

Yeah, like let me project.

Yeah, like exactly, like, like let's not just— don't just know, okay, low-key Louis Vuitton bag. Like, let's— no, no, it's loud. Like, you're not going to be able to ignore the fact that, like, this is a designer bag. And by the way, probably fake, like from eBay, from like a random seller, like not box fresh. And, you know, I could not have given that money over quicker for this item that I thought signaled success and gave me value. And then, of course, rent came and it was like, okay, I'm in a bit of a pickle because I did spend all that money on, you know, the bag. And so that was sort of a tough month, but I keep that bag now as a reminder because I think I still will always have that dog in me a little bit of like, you know, falling a bit for the allure of like luxury. But I also know that the gratification of it is so fleeting and that I actually get so much more money— value for my money when I spend it on experiences. Or, you know, on creating my future more than—

I mean, this is not a right or wrong conversation. I've never been like— I've been more about quality and premium, like buying quality and premium versus which brand is it. Yeah, it's more of like, is the brand premium but not is the name known so that I can project? And I'm not saying I like— listen, I have a Tesla. They're signaling all right. Yeah, I'm wearing a Rolex. Someone gave it to me as a gift, but it was like—

Give it to me. Okay.

Exactly. But it's part of me feels weird when I buy like brand names to show it off. For me, I feel weird about it, even though I, again, I have a nice Tesla, I have a Rolex. It's like I'm not saying I'm better than or something, but I always look for premium. Like I want premium experiences. I want premium food. I want quality time. I want premium like travel.

Yeah.

That's what I'm looking for. To create more like comfort, I guess, more like quality, more of that in my life. And maybe I have a wound against going against brands for some reason. Like, I don't know, maybe it's something different there. But when someone only wants brands and they're like, I cannot wear anything unless it's designer name and it's showing it right and it's signaling it, what are they saying to the world typically if that's the case?

Well, to me, this is a form of, of learned financial helplessness, which is when you feel like the system is so out to get you and there's no real opportunity to win. And so you start to prioritize things that don't really matter because you're sort of looking for shortcuts and ways out versus actually understanding that there's always still ways to win. You just need to find them. And so this could come as, you know, ignoring your bank statements. Quiet quitting, I think, is a really good example of learned financial helplessness.

Really?

But yeah, but, you know, where you sort of just give up, you're like, well, you know, I shouldn't have to count on myself. Like, it's, it's, you know, the people who are sort of like, we're on a spinning rock, the world is burning. Or, you know, I see this a lot when I give projections for investments. So I'll talk a lot about how important it is to start investing early. And if you invest at 25, $200 a month, 8 to 10% return, by the time that you are in your 60s, you will have over $700,000.

Crazy, right?

Which is so cool.

$200 a month.

$200 bucks a month.

At 25.

Yep. And if you start at 35, that goes down by half at least. Yeah, exactly. But when I say that, there's always people in the comments who are going to say, well, $700,000 by the time that I'm in my 60s isn't even going to matter. Like, you know, inflation is so crazy and they're not wrong. Since 2000, you know, price of living has gone up 67%. Wages have increased 7%.

But if you don't invest anything and you have zero at 65, you're screwed.

Exactly.

Then what do you do?

Exactly. But that's learn fin— it's like this financial nihilism. Where you just count yourself out. And that is something that I really talk about a lot in the book because I think that we see it a lot in young people who then prioritize like flexing or, you know, you see it even like people going to Coachella on buy now pay later where they're living so much more for the now versus prioritizing their future rich person because they feel like there's no point.

So let's go back to this moment, this aha moment. You made $3 grand.

Mm-hmm.

You went on eBay, you bought a, a big Louis Vuitton bag, right? And you still buy designer brand stuff today, right?

I'm assuming, you know, a lot less. I now do a lot of, uh, luxury resale. So now it's become like a savvy hobby of mine where I have traveled around the world and I've gone to Asia, I've gone to Europe to find secondhand luxury goods, and then I'll either keep them or I'll flip them.

Really?

Yes.

Oh, so you make like a business Yeah, I mean, you use it for a few months and you can make money.

Exactly.

That's interesting.

Yeah, yeah.

It's more of an asset.

Yeah, it's an, I mean, but it's a hobby. It's still, it's not gonna change my life, the money that I make on it. But it's become more gamified. But I'm very outspoken against, you know, the whole like Birkin culture online, which I fell for too.

What's that? I don't even know. Just the bag?

Yeah, the Birkin bag from Hermès.

What's the culture about it?

You know, there was so much there's so much information out there that, um, is perpetuated that a Birkin is as good of an investment as the S&P 500. And so it sort of tricks women into thinking that like you should spend $20 grand on a bag and that that's like a really good idea because yeah, it's gonna beat the stock market and you can wear it and it's like gonna make you look rich, but it's also gonna make you rich. And it's like, in actuality, those numbers are not correct. They are completely graded on a curve. Of course, there are some very rare assets that come from Hermès.

That's like the crocodile diamond secret, like, you know, 20 of them in the world. Yep.

And those are going to swing the whole pendulum one way. But for most people, put your money in the stock market. Like, what are you doing? It makes no sense.

When should someone buy a $5,000, $10,000, or $20,000 bag or luxury item, like brand item?

Well, I think it all comes down, first of all, to figuring out what you really value. Like, you know, for me, I realized that I actually really did like the game of luxury, um, and I was interested in it, and I did look at it as an asset, and it was like sort of educational and fun and this like little chase. And so that's something that I actually really value. But I think that like when I started, it was something that I was just buying to sort of keep up with the Joneses because I was a wolf with no clothing sheep in the— yeah, yeah. So it was all a facade, really. Yeah, it was a mask of, you know, like, don't look too closely over here because there's not much underneath the surface. But when there is stuff beneath the surface, you don't need the mask. That's why you see like billionaires in sweatpants, you know, like, because they're like, yeah, I'm good, like, I don't need to flex anymore.

How long were you doing that, like, trying to buy designer brands or whatever until you realize like, oh, maybe I should reevaluate this, why I'm doing this. Like, how long were you doing that for?

I mean, that bag was a wake-up call for me.

Okay.

Yeah, because I was already on my financial journey at that point and I was like, yeah, it's like crazy that I have this asset or not asset even like I have this bag, but it's like I'm struggling to actually pay my rent this month.

That's interesting.

Yeah. And like, this makes no sense. And so now—

or dollars.

Yeah, good. I like that you're the comedian now. But yeah. And so then, you know, I really started to focus on value-based spending.

What is value-based spending?

So it's when you really— because you can have anything, Lewis, but you can't have everything. And I think so much of financial advice makes you feel like you have to deprive yourself to get where you want to go. But in reality, you can actually just implement your dollars towards what you value to live a life that feels like so much fuller. And, you know, you get so much more out of it. And so, you know, picking a few categories of things that you really like to spend on, like, for example, I don't really care about coffees. Like, there's a lot of people who I feel like love to have their, like, little sweet treat, whatever. That's something that I could cut really easily from my budget. But then there's other things, like I have a dog walker and that's like really big part of my life that I wouldn't give up because it's like, it allows me to work more and like I know that my dog's being taken care of, which helps my mental health. And so it's like, you know, what are those trade-offs? You know?

Sure. That's great. Then what's, what would you say is the mindset difference between someone who makes money versus someone who's building wealth?

Oh, this is such a great, great question, Lewis, because there's actually a story of someone in the book. It's a real story of this guy named Ronald who was— who's a janitor. And so he never made— he didn't have— yeah, he didn't have a high salary, um, but he died with $8 million. Come on, $8 million!

A janitor his whole life?

Yeah, janitor his whole life, but was No, he worked as a gas station attendant as well.

Okay.

So it was between— but like, neither are high-paying jobs.

Wow.

And then he was able to— he died in Vermont and he was able to— he donated the money to the library there and to the hospital. He really made a difference, but he lived frugally, so he always had action money. Right. And he, and he also invested in his financial literacy. So he understood index funds and put money away consistently in them. So they were compounding over time and he was able to then, you know, at the end of his life, see this massive profit. Because we know that, you know, with compound interest, it's like a snowball running down a hill. It gets bigger and bigger and bigger. It builds on itself. Um, and so I think that's such a good example because people think that in order to be rich, you have to have this really high salary. But like, you— that's not true. You just have to spend less than you make and be putting the difference to work.

With all the— I mean, I could imagine people in their 20s or 30s right now saying, that sounds nice that he had $8 million when he died, but he didn't live a full life because he didn't spend any of it. And since I get 5,000 advertisements a day and every musical venue and Coachella and whatever travel and trip and adventure that's trying to sell me something right now, I'm going to go live my life to the fullest. So what do you say to someone in their 20s and 30s who's like, I want to live my life full now and not die with a bunch of money in the bank?

They're the people who are like, forget your 401, I want 401 memories, right?

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you know, we talked about compound interest and the importance of starting early, and I just think that it's such a missed opportunity to get your money in the market. But I also understand that right now we are fed so much of people who are living these crazy lives. Like, whenever you go online, you're seeing someone who's your age, who's like 10 times hotter than you, has like 10 times better of a relationship. They're going on 10 times more vacations. Like, they're just 10x everything. And you're like, shoot, like this, what I'm looking around at, not doing much for me now. Like, this sort of sucks, actually. So then you think, okay, let me go buy the thing that they have because it's going to make me feel like them and give me their life. Mm-hmm. But that's not how it works. Then you just have that thing and, but you don't have anything else and you're actually in debt, which causes you a lot of financial stress.

A lot of stress.

And it just adds to a life that's keeping you really small. Um, and so I think that it's really, that's why the whole first part of Future Rich Person is so much about mindset because you have to understand those triggers and you also have to learn emotional regulation because if you don't, then you're just gonna keep acting impulsively trying to keep up with the Joneses. Yeah.

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Mm-hmm.

Why do you think so many people carry shame when they think about money, talk about money, don't talk about money, and what is the process you have for them with the kind of judgment-free finance conversation you share?

I think that shame really comes from when we are trying to hide something, like when we don't want someone to see us fully. And money is so tied to value, like even in the world, like a dollar can get you something, like it's valuable. Um, and so I think that a lot of us think that however much money we have is how valuable we are. And that's really complicated because if you don't have that much money, then you're not going to think that you're valuable. And that's also why I think we see people faking looking rich.

Interesting.

Because that gives perceived value.

They want to show like they're more valuable than they are.

Exactly.

When someone shows that they're more valuable than they actually are internally, then what happens with that disconnect?

Yeah, well, then you're just living a life that's not truthful, and it's always going to catch up to you because you're, you know, living on borrowed money. And that's a hedonic treadmill. Like, you know, it's— getting out of debt is very hard. It's not impossible, but it's something you have to really focus on.

It's hard.

Yeah, it is hard. Um, and so yeah, I would say if you're someone who's living with a lot of money shame, first of all, know that it's not your fault. Like this is never taught. And money relationships are basically set by the time you're 7 years old. And so depending on how you grew up, like there's a part of the money mindset part of my book, there's a whole part on blame where I'm like, look, yeah, you're responsible for a lot of this, but there's also a lot of forces outside of you that are causing you to feel like this about your finances.

Wow.

So let's, we might not be able to change them, but we can work around them. And doesn't it feel good to name them? Because then you can sort of, take some of the impetus off of yourself.

Yeah. Um, did you ever have any blame or frustration around your father for having this knowledge and not passing it down to you?

I mean, yeah, I like still have it with him.

Really?

Like, he's— the amount of work that I do to try and get him to do estate planning, and like, like, I'm so obsessed with planning for death because I— sorry, but I, you know, like, I don't— I know I'm gonna be so upset when my parents pass away. Like, I'm so close to them, it's gonna devastate me.

Sad. I irrelevant of money and things and all this stuff. You're sad.

Yeah, like, I want to be able to deal with my grief outside of wondering, oh, do I have access to their bank account? What are— how do I get access to their digital files? Like, you know, where— who's— how do I pay the mortgage? Like, I want to understand these things while everyone is healthy and, you know, alive. And there's a lot of, uh, secrecy around it because I think that— yeah, because I think that he has seen he works with such high net worth individuals and families, and he's seen how much— you know, Warren Buffett always says you should always give a, give a kid so much, enough money that they can do whatever they want, but not enough money that they don't have to do anything. And I think that my dad has seen a lot of kids who got enough money they didn't have to do anything, and it really depleted their sense of worth because then they were sort of, you know, helpless. Like, they didn't really have any purpose.

For kids that are born into money, what is the biggest challenge they'll face and biggest opportunity that they'll have as well in their favor?

I think the biggest challenge that you face is financial literacy.

Really?

I think it's the same for everyone because it's not in— like I said, it's not inherited. Um, and so, and also understanding the power of financial independence because, you know, it's such a privilege to be born into anything. And I would, you know, I don't want to complain at all because like that is some, you so much better to have that than not. But also it does keep you stuck whenever you don't have control over your finances. It means that people have a say on your decisions and how you live your life and that you, you know, nothing's free even in relationships. Like if you marry a rich guy, 'cause that's what you're solving for, you're gonna pay for it every day. Mm-hmm. You know? And it's the same in families where it's like then there's expectations set on you. And so the, the best thing that you can do is empower yourself financially so you can make your own money, because that's going to let you be able to live your own life.

For, for women who marry for money intentionally, they know in their mind, I'm marrying this man because he's got money and he's going to be able to provide, or whatever it is. What typically happens in those relationships when they marry for the primary reason that they have money?

Well, I mean, you got into a situation where you're dependent and you don't have any ability to leave. And it keeps your, you know, keeps your life really small. Like, I have a story in the book. It's actually about my best friend. I asked her if I can include it. She said yes. And she was someone who was always solving for a rich guy.

What does that look like? What does that mean?

So when I first met her, she was living in a townhouse. In Brooklyn Heights because she was seriously dating this guy who was like the heir to a fruit fortune. And she's really ambitious, Lewis.

Okay.

Like at that point in her life, she had this job that was— she was like one of the million milers on United because she was traveling all the time for work. She was just like taking off like a rocket ship in her career and, you know, making money, providing for herself. But also, I think there was some part of her that was, you know, solving for the rich guy. Um, and this guy didn't have that career and wasn't supportive of her grind and her hustle, and they were not aligned and it broke off. And, you know, he was cheating, the whole thing. And so then the next guy she started to date, another rich guy, and he— I remember she called me and she was like, oh my God, we're going fly fishing. He— it was like one of their first, you know, weekends away. He bought me a full new outfit to go fly fishing, tags on. She could see it was like $600. Yeah. And but she was like, that's such a waste. Like, I might never go fly fishing again. Like, this is— why would you buy me a new outfit for this? I could borrow it from like the people that we're going with.

Like, rich.

But it was not her— it was not how she, um, valued— they were not aligned with their values.

She thought it was a waste.

Yeah, she thought it was a waste. He thought it was nice. It was like a throwaway for him, but for her it was like, that's real money. Why are you being so wasteful? The guy that she's with now, who she's engaged to, no generational wealth, son of a plumber, but picks her up from the airport every time that she flies in. And me too, if I'm with her, uh, because she— he knows that she doesn't, you know, like spending money on Ubers from the airport. She thinks it's a waste. And their favorite inside joke is making fun of people who Uber home from Trader Joe's because they're like, oh my God, why would you go to get some good deals on food? They're just gonna waste all their savings on an Uber. And he's really ambitious too and really into her hustle. And together they're building something together. But it's not necessarily that they came from the same place, but they're going in the same direction. And there's, I think there's something really beautiful in that.

That's cool. So I want to go back to what you said. You said you still have some issues with your dad.

Yeah. My dad's gonna watch this episode. He's like, cool, I didn't realize you were airing me out. Yeah. No, I love, I'm so close with my dad. I want to be super clear, but he just is not, he's seen a lot with money and how it affects families. And so he's extremely, instead of, I'm very open. I love to be open about money.

He's closed.

He's very closed.

Even still today, even with you being more open and learning more.

And having my— I mean, I'm a millionaire. Like, yes, I came from money, but like, give me it. Like, it's like, you know, I made the money. Like, it's like I'm fighting. I can do whatever I want. Like, I'm free. And so it's like, doesn't matter.

I'm a dad, you know, I have twin girls, 6 months old. What are 3 things you wish your father— not making him wrong, but what are 3 things you wish he taught you about money growing up that new parents can, can share with their kids.

I love that.

So, or maybe it's not teaching, maybe it's a way of being. Maybe it's like 3 habits. I don't know, 3 things that we can do.

I love that. Yeah. So I would say number 1, to really think about how you talk about money because kids really pick up on that.

How should you talk? I mean, is it about the words you use, the energy you have around your conversations? What do you mean?

I think it's important to make sure that you don't speak from a place of scarcity, but you speak from a place of value.

So the difference between scarcity and value—

so, okay, for example, say you're at the store and your child wants to, uh, you know, get a, uh, a toy, and you say, uh, we can't afford that. That's very different than saying We're saving towards something else. Like, we have this other goal that we're working towards, so that doesn't align with our spending right now. Because then it shows them that, like, you're working towards something else, you're value-driven, versus making them feel like there's not enough, you know. So just thinking through, you know, how you are talking about money and making sure that you aren't making your child feel like there is not enough, but rather that, like, you're all working together towards something bigger.

Okay.

Towards shared goals.

That's the one thing. What's the second thing you wish your dad or parents should share with their kids?

You know, I think that you should put a dollar amount on chores and like help around the house so that children have their own money to manage. I wish that I had had that when I was younger so much because I talk about this in the book, like my first financial memory of literally just wanting like a snack at school, but I didn't have any money. Like I didn't have a job and I didn't have an allowance. And so I would sort of like sheepishly— there was this plastic container above the washing machine that had like some spare dollar bills. Maybe I'd find a $5 if I was lucky and I would, you know, grab it and go. And it was always sort of secretive and, you know, weird and a little shame. Shameful. I don't know how to get this any other way. I'm looking outside of myself, but also like like, you know, it just felt sort of dirty. Um, but I wish that— but I was always, you know, helpful around the house, dishwasher, like, you know, perfect report from the babysitter, the whole thing. So I wish that they had instead been like, great, you did, you did the dishes every night this week, here's, you know, $5. And then I could decide what to do with that.

Did you ever ask your parents for money, or were you like, hey, can I have $5?

No, I didn't even ask them for money. It was like so weird. It was sort of like sneaking around. And then I saw that play out later in my life where, you know, I felt like I couldn't really rely on myself for money because no one had really like empowered me in that way. It was— and so I was, you know, looking outside of myself for ways to get it versus just being like, I'm smart enough to do this, I can absolutely earn my own way, and like, let me just go for it.

Sure.

Yeah.

Okay. So put a dollar amount on chores or like—

Give them some money to manage, I think is really helpful.

Okay.

The third thing. And then number 3, I would say to explain taxes to them through taxing that allowance, but then use it towards like your family as a government or like as a state. So, okay, you're getting, you know, $10 in allowance, but, you know, taxes are 30%. So it's really going to be $7. And then, you know, say you have 3 kids, that's $9 in the pot from the quote unquote taxes. And then having a family meeting and deciding, okay, how do we want to use this? Are we saving towards a trampoline? Do we want to go to Disney World and like putting it towards something bigger that you guys are all working towards. But I think that that's like a really great teachable moment because so many people are never taught how taxes work, and they're the biggest expense that we'll ever pay.

Yeah.

And there's something that you have to get used to. Um, and so I think that you can like start teaching that so early on.

I love that idea. And I also like the idea of like making it around service. Like, that tax we have to give away.

Yeah.

Whether it's to our church or to a charity or to whatever, like, we don't keep that. You don't get You don't get the tax money you have to give away to the government. Yeah, but let's use this for good that we want to do.

Yeah, maybe you don't.

Maybe you don't like what the government does because you don't know what they're doing with your money, but you can't get around it. But this money, we can do good with it.

I love that.

So I think that'd be interesting instead of like, I mean, for me, a trampoline. No, yeah, something like that. So use the money for the trampoline. Yeah, you have.

Yeah.

But the taxes, use it towards church or something else, you know. Whatever it might be.

I love that.

I think that could be good because then you're instilling service mindset as well.

Yeah.

As learning to pay taxes. That's interesting. I've never seen that, that tax thing before. That's cool. You know those moments when your energy just drops in the middle of the day and you can't quite figure out why? I used to think it was a lack of sleep or I needed more coffee, but a lot of the time it just comes down to hydration. And when you're even a little bit off, everything feels harder. Drip Drop uses science-based formulas for proven fast hydration, so you feel results fast while getting 3 times the electrolytes of leading sports drinks. It's trusted by over 90% of top college and pro sports teams, which says a lot. And I've been loving the orange flavor lately. It's simple, clean, and easy to drink. I'll usually mix it into water first thing in the morning or after a workout, especially on busy days when I know I need to stay sharp and focused. And their Zero Sugar Plus is a great option also. It's got 6 key electrolytes, 15 essential vitamins and nutrients, and no sugar or artificial sweeteners. Right now, Drip Drop is offering podcast listeners 20% off your first order. Go to dripdrop.com and use promo code GREATNESS. That's dripdrop.com, promo code GREATNESS for 20% off. Stock up now at dripdrop.com and use promo code GREATNESS. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. You know those nights where your mind just won't slow down? I've had moments like that where I'm just laying in bed ruminating, thinking about everything I need to do, conversations I've had, things I want to get done right, and it just keeps looping. And in those moments, I realized how powerful it is to actually talk things out instead of holding it all in. And if you've been feeling overwhelmed, stuck, anxious, or unsure, that's okay. Those feelings are more common than we think. And May is Mental Health Awareness Month, which is a great reminder that you don't have to carry it all on your own. Having someone there to listen, to understand, and to support you can make a real difference. And that's where BetterHelp comes in. BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform. You just take a short questionnaire to share what you're looking for, and they handle the initial therapist matching for you. And you can feel good knowing their therapists are licensed professionals who follow a strict code of conduct. You don't have to be on this journey alone. Find support and have someone with you in therapy. Sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com/greatness. That's betterhelp.com/greatness. What is the greatest money advice your dad has taught you, whether through his behavior or actions or lack thereof?

You know, my dad is successful, but he's really low-key and really generous. So like, he gives away so much money, but also like has like drives an old Jeep, wears hokas every day with like just like like, uh, some sort of down vest. And like, you know, he's very unassuming, um, and I love that about him. And I think— and it's— I always say like, Dad, do you think it's crazy that you have a daughter who has like this like luxury disease? Because I'm like, how did I get this mental illness of like, why do I— why— like, I've had to rework my brain so much from like, you know, wanting to look rich versus being rich. And he's like, no, you know, I think it's a lot about your upbringing and whatever. And so he understands, but it's like he doesn't have it at all. He's so— he would give the shirt off of his back. Like, he's so humble. And so I think that's been something that I've learned from him that's amazing. But then, you know, also just compound interest and how simple it is to grow wealth. Like, I, you know, now have my own investment portfolio. Of course, I'm very passionate about investing. And I talked to him about it. And what's so crazy is that what I'm investing in and what I tell my audience to invest in, these low-cost index funds, they're the same vehicles that the billionaires are putting their money into. Like, it's not like you need some secret cheat sheet or whatever. I always say you should want an above-average relationship, above-average life, above-average travels, experiences, food, sex, whatever it is. But you want your investment returns to be average. Do not chase getting rich quick.

Why?

Because it'll never work out for you. It's too risky.

Yeah.

Slow and steady wins the race.

That's it.

Yeah.

How long have you been investing for?

I wish I had started earlier, but I started probably when I was like 27.

Okay.

Because, yeah, my aha money moment was around the time I was like, 25, and then it took me about like a year to really get a handle on my spending and also to, uh, build my emergency fund, which—

were you in debt back then?

I wasn't in debt, but I was in like family debt, you know what I mean? Like, I wasn't living a free life.

Sure.

But I was like, you know, what does that mean, being in family debt? Well, you know, like, my, my apartment at that time was maybe like $1,500, and, you know, I think my parents paid for half of it. So it was subsidized. Yeah, it was subsidized.

And there's strings attached.

So many strings attached.

What are there? What are the strings attached to being an adult who's still an adult over 21, out of college, who's still getting funding through their parents?

Okay, so there's a story in the book about this, of this girl who is marrying someone who has money. She didn't come from money, and the mother-in-law takes control of the wedding and, uh, and is like, thinks that she's being so generous and wants to throw— it starts to throw this like huge $500,000 wedding. Crazy. And the bride is left totally just like sort of in the corner because it becomes the mother-in-law's show.

It's not the bride's wedding anymore.

It's not the bride's wedding anymore. Exactly.

It's— you're, you're a doll.

Yeah, you're—

it's not your wedding.

No, it's not your wedding at all. Exactly. The, you know, and the mother-in-law had a better dress, and she— it was all her friends coming, and it was like, you know, this woman wondering, what can I do? Like, this is, you know, like, this is not the wedding that I want. Should I push to you know, have the wedding that I want and, you know, like, look a gift horse in the mouth, or should I just go along with it? And I thought that it was such an interesting moment because, you know, she would of course be silly to like, you know, say no to something so generous. But in the same way, what's going to happen after the wedding? The mom, the mother-in-law, is then going to say, hey, bought you a house, but it's right next door to me, so I get to come whenever you want. Whatever I want to see the baby, or, you know, oh, hey, like, I would love to pay for your children's school, but they have to go to this school. And like, maybe it's a religious school. Maybe that's not like the religion that you want, or, you know, like there's just— it always comes with rules attached. And that's why financial independence and freedom is so important, because it gives you the paintbrush to, you know, build your own life versus having to like live in someone else's.

How did that feel? I mean, it must also be nice to be like, oh, my dad's helping me pay for rent and, you know, I'm going after my dreams in New York City. It's expensive here. Isn't that also like a generous thing?

Oh my God, it was so generous. It was so kind. And I also think that like there's, you know, I, one of— I teach— there's a whole chapter in the book about rich kids. Like, I think that it's such a gift to give your kids this financial stability and it's such a leg up. Like, I would be, you know, an asshole to complain about it. Like, I understand that completely, and I, you know, am so grateful to them. And I— it's more just the lack of financial literacy that I think was really harmful because it kept me in a place where I was always looking outside of myself, dependent on something else. Yeah, yeah. And that— and then when I started to be dependent on myself, that's when like my life really became so amazing. Yeah.

What is the greatest skill someone can learn to be able to develop more money themselves?

I mean, look at you with the cat. It's my— it's that self-belief. It's switching your mindset to thinking, okay, like, no, I am a future rich person. I can do this. But then, of course, you do need the tactical tools. Like, you need to understand how the stock market works, how taxes work, how to negotiate, how to, you know, I have a whole part in the book about setting up businesses because it's like, you know, we're— my Millennials and Gen Z are the biggest generations of entrepreneurs. But guess what else isn't taught in school besides budgeting and taxes? How to set up a corporate entity, how to, you know, invest for retirement when you don't have a 401 from a corporate job. So it's like really important to get this financial literacy out there so that people can succeed.

Yeah. And what What are 3 things that a lot of people do that will never make them rich?

Such an interesting question because I feel like it's sort of different for each person, but definitely, I mean, it starts with spending beyond your means. Okay, that's number 1. Uh, when you have sunk cost fallacy around your career—

what does that mean?

So you're in a job that's maybe not giving you, you know, 10 to 20% increase in salary every 2 to 3 years, which is really important. And so, but you've been there for so long that you feel like, okay, I should just stay here because like one day it's magically going to happen. So much better to cut your losses and then not investing. Investing is the key to growing wealth and it's not complicated, but it's something that everyone really has to do if they want financial freedom.

What's the percentage of people in their 20s that you think is investing? Do you know?

Well, I do know that Gen Z, uh, it has the most contributions to their 401s than any generation.

Really?

So it is interesting to see the impact of social media on financial literacy because I think that it is becoming so much more normalized to be good with money, to take control of your finances.

Promoting it more to this younger generation. Generation.

Yeah, 100%.

Yeah, that's interesting. What would you say is your biggest money wound today after being a millionaire?

My biggest money wound is wanting more versus having enough.

Oh, um, tell me more.

Look, like, I, I love money. I'm all about abundance. And I also, you know, it's such an amazing tool to be able to make a difference in the world. Like, you talk a lot about service. Like, that's so important to me too. Um, but I think my biggest money wound is like I was searching so much for financial freedom and I put it on this huge pedestal. And so I've worked relentlessly the last like 8 to 10 years to get to this point where now like I do, I am a millionaire. Like I have, you know, money in the bank and invested and you know, I'm in a good position. But now I'm really interested in building out the other parts of my life. So, because I think that you can have, it's very, simple, sort of, to have a lot of one thing, right? But it's a lot harder to have some of many things. And so for me, I really put balance on a pedestal. And like, you know, now you do. Yeah, because I'm like, okay, if I could have career, health, and relationships and spirituality, then that would be really sick, you know? But I had to get that. Yeah, it'd be sick in a good way. But like, you know, the I had to start with the money wound and now I'm working on building out everything else.

Interesting.

You know, and it takes time. Yeah.

The money wound gave you a sense of financial independence, financial freedom.

Yeah.

Not being dependent on parents or outside forces. And so you've taken control of that. But what I'm hearing you say is you haven't gotten the other things.

No. And I'm looking for them. Like now I'm focused so much more on them.

What's the main thing missing in your life right now?

Oh, I mean, I want to have— I want to get married and have kids. Kids. That's the biggest thing.

Why?

Um, just because— I mean, my parents have like an amazing partnership, and I think that when you're in the right relationship— we were talking about this before we started filming— that like when you're able to find the right partner, it really can be like 1 1 3, you know? And I, you know, I have a beautiful life on my own, um, that I love, but I am, you know, I really do want to be a mom, and I don't I think that that's something I really love to do with someone else. So yeah, but I'm not impatient, so I won't— I wouldn't do it impulsively or like with the wrong person. And that's why, you know, money is also so amazing because, because of my financial independence, I've been able to freeze my eggs, which then has bought me so much time and, you know, choice. I don't have to rush. Women used to basically have to belong to a man to have any upward mobility. Like, we couldn't have credit cards till 1974 on our own. Wow. So you could— we couldn't take out business loans till 1988. Like, so it's, you know, it's very new for us to have this freedom. And I take it really seriously to use it to actually carve a life that, like, my grandma would be jealous of, you know.

When do you think you will know you're ready for the right relationship? What needs to happen for you to say, okay, I'm going to commit and go down the path of, you know, being together, getting engaged, getting married?

I think it is meeting the right person. Like, I've done a lot of work on myself, um, and so I think that it's just about building trust with the right person, um, and then making sure that we have the same financial values, family values, um, you know, spiritual values, all of these sexual values, like, that we're aligned on all of these other, uh, planes is so important. But I'm also like, you know, I was with a friend yesterday who has been married for like 10 years, and her husband is a different man than when I met him because they have grown so much together. He is now like yassified, like he's like awesome version of himself. I'm like, go off, King. Like, you're killing it, you know? Like, I'm so happy for them. They have 2 kids. Yeah. And so I think it's also about really seeing the potential with someone too. It's not like someone has to come in so perfectly, but it's about like, okay, is this someone that's gonna make me better, that I can make better, that we can build with?

Mm, that's cool. I'm curious what you think, in order for someone to increase their net worth, what needs to change within their self-worth so that they can receive more money and feel peaceful around that money?

So in the book I have my 5-step money mindset program called Ibiza, which unfortunately it doesn't mean that I give you a ticket to Spain, although maybe I'll see you there. And each of the letters in Ibiza stands for step. And so, uh, I is identify, B is blame, I is interrupt, Z is judge, and then A is action, of course. Um, and so I think it's really important to just work those steps so that then you're able to, yeah, shift your self-identity so that you are someone who's able to, you know, be able to handle money. Because a lot of people will then get money and they'll like it'll slip through their fingers right away because they are scared to hold on to it. They're like, I don't know what to do with this. Like, and that's also why we see— I see this a lot with women, that they will have huge amounts of money sitting in their checking account because it makes them feel safe, but they don't know exactly what to do with it. And so it's just like there, but they're not putting it to work. But maybe they know a little bit that they should be putting it to work. But like they, you know, it's something that is— feels very off-putting. Limits and sort of out of bounds. Um, and so yeah, it really just comes from working that, those steps. And I've been using that program for like 8 years. It's helped tens of thousands of people. Yeah, it really works.

What was it? Identify, blame.

Blame. Yeah.

What are the first two? What does that mean?

So identify is to identify your like stuck money beliefs and like your patterns. And most people never look at themselves in that way. So, you know, the same way we go to therapy, we figure out, okay, why I could keep getting in this bad relationship Let's figure out why you're broke or why you're stuck with, you know, at a certain net worth or, you know, why you can't leave that job or, you know, why you can't leave that relationship that maybe gives you financial security. Like, what is it actually about yourself where you're like, wait, maybe I can't take care of myself, or, you know, maybe there's not something else out there for me, or, you know, like, we have to break down those limiting beliefs.

Yes. Okay.

Um, and then B is blame, which I think I talked about a little, but it's like, you know, there's a lot of You can't talk about building wealth in America without talking about like the systemic issues that hold many people back. You know, most people really, besides like— no offense— white guys.

Sure.

And so, you know, blaming that is okay. My therapist says don't blame, but I think you can blame a little. You can blame. It's important to identify, to, you know, talk about what's working against you. And it doesn't mean that just because there's forces working against you, you can't win.

Right.

But still got to call them out.

Acknowledge this is what's been challenging me and holding me back.

Right.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. And then I is interrupt, which I'm sure, you know, you're someone who's really changed your life a lot and I'm sure you had to interrupt a lot of bad thoughts in order to get yourself to the place that you're at now. Probably still, you know, it's once in a while.

But yeah, I mean, I feel like I'm really in a good system. Like the moment I wake up, Throughout the day, I'm constantly thinking of gratitude. I love that appreciation and gratitude of like, listen, do negative thoughts come in? Yes. But then I'm like, all right, this doesn't make me feel good. Can I do something about it? If not, then go back to gratitude. If I can do something, take the action and then move back into gratitude.

That's a great practice.

Yeah, it's just— I mean, again, 90% of my day I'm feeling and thinking empowering things. When there is a breakdown or something that frustrates me, or, you know, I'm not perfect, I'm human. If something makes me angry, I might sit in it for a few minutes, but then I'm like, all right, can I act upon this? So I stop feeling this, not react, but can I act upon it or can I course correct? And if not, then I can't do anything about it. Yeah, there's nothing I can do. I can't change some system. You know, it's like, if I can, let me act on and feel empowered and then go back to appreciation and gratitude. Yeah, well, that's the best way I can, you know.

You don't have helplessness though. Like, your, your everything is within your locus of control, which is a huge mindset shift that people have to have in order to become future rich people, to grow wealth, to change their lives at all.

I used to feel pretty helpless though in my early 20s because I was like broke and dependent on people and felt like I can't make any money and everyone's out to get me.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

The system and—

The system. Yeah.

No one wants to hire me. All these things. Yeah. I felt all those frustrations. And then I started meeting mentors that I was like, oh, they have certain skills that I would like to acquire. Let me learn from them on how they acquired them. And okay, let me go spend a week every year learning how to do public speaking. Let me go learn these other skills that it helped them generate financial freedom. I had to learn how to work, read and write in my 20s. I wrote a book when I was 25 and I had a mentor who had written a number of books and he worked with me every week on learning how to write.

Wow.

To write a book. And I spent a year doing that. I was like, how do I develop skills to become more valuable, have more confidence, and then share more value to other people? But it took work. You can't just be a victim. You have to learn something.

So true. And I always talk about that as a, you know, a big part. One of the new rules of building wealth that I feel like people don't talk about enough is just like, you know, we put so much energy towards saving money. It feels so easy for so many people, I think, to cut back. But I have a whole chapter in the book called Secure the Damn Bag about helping people instead shift their mindset to making more.

And you're not talking about the Louis Vuitton bag.

No, no, no.

Yeah.

No, no, no. I know you're not going to let me live that down.

Secure the bag.

Secure the damn bag.

What does secure the damn bag mean?

Secure the damn bag means like, you know, we have a finite amount of this financial energy every day. So instead of focusing on all the things that you can cut back, think about how you can actually earn more because that's going to move the needle so much more for you. So like, you know, and investing in your skills, 70% of people who increase their skills, see a huge career boost.

Really?

Yeah. I saw that statistic today because I was doing a whole video about how reading ways for people to increase their income and really, you know, increasing your skills, 10 out of 10. And especially now in the age of AI, people are so scared that AI is going to take their jobs. But it's really that people who know how to use AI are going to take their jobs. So like invest in the skills so that you can, you know, understand that system.

Future-proof yourself too.

Yeah, I have a lot about AI in the book as well.

What are 3 skills that anyone, no matter how old you are today, can learn to develop to earn more money in the future?

Well, I think it's dependent on your industry. Like, you know, it might be that you need to learn video editing. It might— for you, it was that you needed to learn probably public speaking and writing books. And, you know, for me it was— I, and I still invest every day in my financial literacy, like I That's why I was so passionate about writing a book about money is because I am the biggest consumer of money books. They've changed my life. Like, I truly believe that what stands between any person and the life that they desire is just a money book that actually makes sense to them.

Yeah.

And that's why I wrote this book, because it's like, it's in plain English. There's tons of celebrity references. There's a lot about my life, like, you know, a lot of stories from people. So it's sort of like a brownie with spinach in it. That you— I wanted it to be like a binge read, but at the end of the day you're like, wow, I really have, you know, increased my financial knowledge and now I know exactly what to do.

That's big.

Yeah.

I remember I was in like, I can't remember if I was like $18,000 or $20,000 in debt, but it was somewhere around there. And I read I Will Teach You to Be Rich by Ramit Sethi.

Such a good one.

Within 6 months I was completely out of debt and I felt free from that. That kind of debt that I was in. And it just gave me a better framework for how to do things moving forward. And that was kind of like early stages of my financial literacy journey, I guess. And where, and when you get little financial wins, you want to learn more.

Yeah. You become addicted to it.

You're like, okay, how do I learn how to maximize this? And there's a lot at this season of life now getting married and joining assets and creating trusts and all these different things. It's like, I feel like I still know nothing about money. Like there's so many new levels.

Oh, there's so— I mean, you know what I mean?

It's like now I'm on a whole new level. I'm like, I have no clue what I'm doing. I've never merged money. I've never merged assets. Like, what do I do now? So it's like the last year I've been learning this process of new levels and I feel like there's so much more to learn.

Yeah, there is. For me, the— I— the first book for me was Warren Buffett's Ground Rules, and it's like all of these shareholder letters of Warren Buffett to Berkshire Hathaway, and basically all of them just say the same thing, which is like compound interest, compound.

Same thing. Invest early and often.

Exactly. Like, don't— like, no getting rich quick. Like, just be consistent. And so after that, I was obsessed with getting my money in the market, and I was like, okay, what do I have to do to start investing? Because it's like the best day to invest was yesterday, and the second best day is today. And like, we gotta get there. And I'm still like that, where I'm like, you know, obsessed with compound interest. And like, you know, whenever I get paid or anything, I'm like, okay, this is going right in the market. I love the market. Yeah, I'm married to it. I really am. Yes.

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Yeah.

Based on the number in the market. And they feel like, I just made the biggest mistake of my life.

Yeah.

I put my money in the market. It just went down 30%. That was a year of my hard work.

Yeah.

Money gone. I'm never gonna invest again.

Oh no.

What do you say to someone who has done that and they're afraid to invest in the market because of that?

I would say, first of all, do not sell because that's how you lock your losses. And historically the market has always bounce back. And it, you really have to see volatility as the tax that you pay for getting to grow wealth in the market because it's sort of magical that like we're able to put our money into this thing and then it just grows and gets bigger and bigger. It's crazy. And you know, nothing good in life comes without like some sort of trade-off. So yeah, sometimes it's gonna be up and down, but that's why you have an emergency fund because you should never invest money that you need in the next 5 to 7 years because then you know, if there is a down cycle and you're in need of that money, then you are going to have to lock your losses out, and you're gonna have to interrupt that compounding cycle. And so that's why it's so important to set up your financial life so that you're not in a position where it's so all or nothing. Um, and you also, you have to manage your emotions around it.

That's the biggest—

yeah, you have to— yeah, you have to understand that, like, that's actually really normal. Like, and that actually just means the market's on sale. So, like, do I have any extra money that I could put in more because I'm going to be able to like get these index funds that I'm really into.

Yeah, for a discount. I'll get that bag on eBay at a discount.

Yeah, exactly. You're, you're not ever gonna let me. I'm gonna have to send you like a picture of the bag after. I wanna see it. I will send it to you.

Is that the bag out there?

No, no, you can't miss this bag though, because you know, the LV is so big. Yeah.

What do you think, um, talk to me about AI and making money. I don't know if you've studied AI. I'm not saying you're like a master of AI, but where do you see as an opportunity for AI over the next 5 to 10 years around making money? Is it around learning it for your industry no matter what industry you're in? Is it around investing in it? Like what is, what should people be thinking around AI and making money?

Well, for, okay, so, you know, I like to use the example of the elevator because is, you know, when the elevator was first invented, there was someone who would be in the elevator with you physically.

That interesting.

Hold it.

Yeah, like still in the Upper East Side.

Yeah, on the back elevators. Yeah, there are. Exactly. How'd you know that? Yeah, exactly. So, you know, the elevator person manually operating it, and then, you know, technology advances, we get buttons, and that job goes away. Does that mean that that person who was running the elevator never works again? No, they look for other opportunities to make money and get out of a box all day and get out of a box all day. And maybe, you know, they start working for the elevator company, whatever they find other opportunity. But like in historically, there have always been moments of technological advancement that have been scary and felt like they were going to absolutely change everything. And maybe they did, maybe they didn't. But the people who still win are the ones who ran towards that change instead of desperately clinging to what was and trying to maintain that old order. Because AI is here, we can't avoid it. And the people who are going to win are the ones who know how to use it. Um, and so I think that specifically with finances, I have been using Claude I use CoWork a lot, which is really simple to set up. I'll probably end up making videos about this on Mrs. Dow Jones, so stay tuned. But you know, you can create these systems within it that can just help you manage your finances a bit easier. Like you can connect your email to it and, you know, set up a flow so that it is finding any subscriptions, things like that to just make it a little bit easier to like catch things and be in control of your finances. So I think that there's a lot of opportunity. But I think that, you know, no matter what happens with automation and AI and all these things, you always have to have an eye on your bottom line or someone else will. And so you can never automate— you can never like— yeah, you can never fully give up your financial responsibility ever. Like, I, you know, think a lot about Rihanna. Of course, I mean, any girl does. You might do. She's a great gal. But, you know, when she started her career, she was, you know, 15 or 16 from Barbados, got signed to Jay-Z's label. And I think they were like, she's a star. Let's get her in the studio. Let's throw her on tour. It was the whole thing. And they set her up with these financial advisors who she never second-guessed because she was not someone who was like used to managing money. This seemed like a trustworthy situation. Okay, great. She goes on this whole world tour working every night, touring all over the world. You would think, you know, making millions of dollars and comes home to buy a house. There's not enough money for a house. And not only that, she realized that her taxes had been all messed up. They were overcharging her, you know, all of these things because she did not have an eye on her bottom line. And this is a great example of if you don't have an eye on your bottom line, no one else will.

Right.

So what did Rihanna do? Fired them, got a new team, wrote Bitch Better Have My Money about those accountants.

Wow.

Yes. And now, of course, happy ending. She's a billionaire. But I guarantee you, Lewis, that Rihanna is signing her own checks because it doesn't matter where technology goes. You still have to have an eye on your bottom line or someone else will.

Yes.

Yeah, I love that.

I'm curious about old wealth versus new wealth.

You're obsessed with old wealth. I'm like, we're going to do a whole—

I'm curious about it.

Yeah, I know.

I'm curious about it.

I'm like, I'm really— I should have worn like a Gossip Girl headband.

There you go.

Yeah. I'm like upset that I'm not in like a prep school blazer. Like, yeah.

What is—

I could have brought you some relics from my childhood.

You should have.

Yeah.

You should have. That bag, you know?

That bag.

What is one way of thinking that old wealth still has today that makes them succeed? And one way of thinking that new wealth has today that makes them succeed over the old wealth.

Something that old wealth does really well is they leverage. Old wealth loves debt. They are obsessed with borrowing money at a lower interest rate than they could make investing it somewhere else, and that helps them exponentially grow money. And that's why in the book, because you don't have to have old wealth to do this. In the book, I talk a lot about paying off debt and how you should be focusing on paying off debt that's above 7% interest rate because that's like high interest rate debt. But any debt below 7% interest rate, pay the minimum on and put whatever extra money you were going to put towards that debt into the market where you could earn more than 7% because the market on average is 8 to 10%. So you have that difference. Sense. Um, so I think that is a key thing that, uh, old money does. Yeah, they, they are— they love to leverage, and they also love to, um, grow generational wealth, which is why I have a whole chapter on rich kids too, uh, with all the secrets of how to set your kids up. Because it really— kids are so young, they're zero, you know, when they come out, pretty young. They got a lot of time for compounding. So even if you start with, you know, small increments of money, you can grow them a lot. But You also have to remember to put your own oxygen mask on first because they can take out loans for school, but you cannot take out loans for retirement.

Mm.

So, you know, don't get too caught up in it.

Interesting.

Yeah. And then the new rules of building wealth that I feel like the old guard, like, needs to understand more is like, you know, this whole rent versus buy thing. I feel like there is such a premium put on owning property. But, you know, in many places in America, like, like, if you rent and invest your down payment money instead, you're actually gonna make more. So, you know, I think like old wealth is very obsessed with owning assets, which is so important, but I think new wealth sees the opportunity that is without like judgment or the, you know, like having to do things just because everyone else did them.

Yeah. Did your dad— does he want to create generational wealth with you?

Oh, my dad is like really intense about like, like for, like for gener— like wants it to be like, won't let— there's— you can't touch the money. Like whatever there is there, it's like it's not— it's very tightly guarded, you know, because it's— I think that he, he wants to—

he doesn't do with it.

I don't know what he wants. He just doesn't want what happens to so many of his clients' kids to happen to us, you know, where you take the money, you spend it all, then you're broke or something. Yeah. Or to just make a bad decision. But the thing is, is like everyone's going to make money mistakes. Like he's made money mistakes too. I've made money mistakes. You made money mistakes. Like it's like, don't cry over spilled milk as long as you didn't lose the cow. Like we have to— you have to take risk in order to like get where you want to go in life a little bit. So, you know, But yeah, I think that it's complicated for him.

Your book's exciting. Future Rich Person: The New Rules for Building Wealth. Not the old rules, the new rules.

The new rules.

I want people to get a copy of the book. A lot of great stories and lessons in here for people. So make sure to get a copy, get one for your friends as well. If you know someone who's struggling financially, maybe they feel stuck, or maybe you know that they try to overspend to fit in. But you know they don't have anything in investments or saving and they still have debt, maybe just get them a copy of this book by Haley Sachs and check it out. Future Rich Person. I think everyone wants to be a future rich person. Yeah. They want to be rich now and in the future.

Yeah.

And I think the power of compound and interest, like you said many times here, you know, the best time to invest was years ago. The second best time is today, right? So it's like put it in now. Often and as much as you can for long term. I've got a couple final questions for you, Haley, and I appreciate you opening up and sharing many stories about the bag, securing the bag.

You're the only one who's gotten that out of me. I'm like, I have to tell my dad not to watch this.

This is a question I ask everyone at the end of the show called the 3 Truths. You've already kind of shared like 3 rules for money, but imagine you get to live as long as you want and you have total balance in your life.

Oh, I love that.

Money, relationship, health, family, kids, everything. And you live the life of your dreams for the rest of your life. But it's the last day on Earth, many years away. And everything you've shared in your books, your content, your messages have to go with you to the next place. Hypothetically. But you get 3 lessons to share with the world. It doesn't have to be around money. Anything at all. What would those 3 lessons or 3 truths be for you?

Number one, I would say the importance of rest. Uh, like, I have a pretty serious, like, TM practice, and I think that it's something that's accessible to anyone. But like, we're so encouraged to go, go, go. But what's really helped me get ahead has been being able to slow down and give myself space every day during the day, and I have to carve it out and fight for it, Lewis, to rest a little. Really, really, really helps. Number 2, I would say that like if you are sad about where you're at, if you don't feel, uh, happy in your life, the best way to get out of yourself is to give back. Find a way, and that doesn't mean necessarily with money, but just find a way to help someone. It be as small as smiling at them, but really, you know, finding ways to get back to your community, finding a cause that you champion, like, that's so important. Um, and third, I would just say, like, experiences over anything. Like, I think that on my last day on Earth, I'm gonna remember, like, the sunset in Greece when I was, like, 34 with my best friends, like, you know, in the summer. Not necessarily because we were at the fanciest hotel or, you know, this or that, but just because it was like one of the best days because it was so simple, you know.

No bag but simple experiences.

Yeah, I don't really don't care about the bags anymore.

I know, but I'm like, those are things— the experiences are things that I think we remember the most, you know. It's not the nice house and cars or whatever, the things we have, but the people we share things with.

Yeah, and the bags.

And the bags. Yeah. And also you can buy the bag if you want a nice bag, get a nice bag.

Yeah. And on my final day on Earth, I'm I'm just gonna think, please make sure Lewis sees that he's in my will to get the big Louis Vuitton bag.

Give him the bag.

Yes, give Lewis the bag. He secured it.

Secured the bag. Um, Future Rich Person is out. People can get it right now. Also, you got a podcast, Financial Tea Podcast. Um, you share a lot of your tips and strategies and lessons on there as well. And also just your social media is great content. So if people want fun, entertaining, financial content, they can go check it out there as well. Cover a lot of stuff on culture, things that are happening right now in the world. So check that out. Love your work, Haley. I've got a one final question for you, and that's what's your definition of greatness?

My definition of greatness is people who are able to see that like the system is flawed and things aren't perfect and there's all forces that are working against you and reasons from your childhood and your family not to, and do it anyways.

There you go. Appreciate it. Thanks for being here.

Thank you for having me.

Of course. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad-free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I wanna remind you you if no one has told you lately that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.

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