The Transformational Technique Of Intermittent Fasting EP 1333

We've taught our patients for so many years, eat snacks, eat mini meals, stoke your metabolism. I'm here to tell people that our bodies intrinsically are designed to go longer periods without eating. And so...

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And I'm curious. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. What is the science showing us when we do a 24-hour fast? and a 48-hour fast, what is actually happening to our bodies? Is it healing our body? Is the autophagy settling in or starting at 24 hours? What is the science that happens after 24 hours of water-only fasting?

Well, first and foremost, congratulations on being almost two days into a fast and you feel fantastic. Thank you. But I think that when we're talking about fasting, I think most people think about intermittent fasting, so there's shorter intervals. with longer episodes of fasting, you really get into deeper autophagy, which is this waste and recycling process that goes on behind the scenes when we're in an unfed state. And this is particularly important, given the last two and a half years where we've had a lot of illness and concerns about illness, we get upregulation and other principles, stem cell activation over two to three days' worth of fasting. I think a lot of people don't even understand that giving ourselves that period of digestive rest can really help healed gut. I mean, how many of us have leaky gut and autoimmune disorders? And so I think on a lot of levels there is this improvement in biophysical markers. We know we get lowered insulin levels, which allows our bodies to be much more efficient and be able to use different types of fuel substrates. So not only fatty acids, but also glucose and getting into a point where our bodies can use ketones. That's why you have so much energy, all that mental clarity because your body's really just functioning on optimizing your health as opposed to the chronic eat every two to three hours and kind of the traditional methodology. But the longer we fast, we're really looking at upregulation of autophagy, reduction in inflammation, improvement in biophysical markers. If you fast long enough, usually closer to four to five days, you're getting stem cell activation.

Really?

Yeah. and for a lot of people, that's a huge benefit that they're looking for. You get improvement in telomere length, which is some of the key anti-aging benefits of fasting. And so I think on a lot of levels, people think about intermittent fasting as these shorter intervals, but there are benefits from doing longer fasts as well, kind of shaking things up.

Is there different benefits for men and women, 24, two days, three days? Does it hurt the other gender? The longer you go, does it affect hormones? How does it all work for men and women?

That's a great question. I think men and menopausal women, so women who've not had a menstrual cycle for more than 12 months, they're in unique categories. There's not as much hormonal fluctuation, so they can generally fast when they want to. Whereas younger women, especially under the age of 35, still at peak fertile years, I'm a little more cautious. I always say fast for your menstrual cycle. So there's times in your menstrual cycle when you can get away with fasting, times you should back off, and then perimenopause is kind of this nebulous time. You know, that's 10 to 15 years before women go through menopause. It can be a time when women have to be a little more careful about their lifestyle.

So after 35, when should women fast and for how long?

It's a good question. I think it's really dependent on the individual. So typically I say if you're, you know, late 30s, early 40s, and you're in the follicular phase, so for the time from when you start bleeding until ovulation, Women can get away with quite a bit of fasting.

They can fast during that time.

Yeah, fasting during that time is generally not an issue, but you've got to dial in on sleep and stress and right types of exercise and anti-inflammatory nutrition. So it gets a little more nuanced and complicated. And I think for a lot of women as they're getting older, they start.

To realize things aren't working quite as well.

Like what stops working as we get older? Well, as we're getting fluctuating amounts of like our ovaries aren't making as much progesterone, so our adrenal glands are kind of stepping in to help buffer that. We go through something called adrenal pause of all things, where we're just not as stress resilient. It doesn't mean we can't manage stress, we just have to be much more diligent about that. We're having imbalances between those two key sex hormones, progesterone and estrogen, and so we suddenly become weight loss resistant. We are struggling with breast pain, we're having heavier cycles. Really? And this is all things that we don't talk enough about with our patients, and certainly not amongst other women. So a lot of women get into that age and all of a sudden they're like, what in the world is going on? Everything I used to do no longer works. And that's when I think fasting can really, if practiced properly, can really be a fantastic strategy.

So what are some of the challenges that you've had, I guess, or the changes you've had where fasting has supported, you know, not hurting you as much or supporting you?

Anyways. Well, I think we've taught our patients for so many years, eat snacks, eat mini meals, stoke your metabolism. I'm here to tell people that our bodies intrinsically are designed to go longer periods without eating. And so when we're looking at women north of 35 or menopausal ages, all of a sudden the calories in, calories out model doesn't work. And the eating with all that frequency and eating heart-healthy grains and following my plate is really putting us at a disadvantage. So I think on a lot of levels, eating less frequently combined with having more protein, eating less processed carbs, maybe drinking less alcohol, all of a sudden women are sleeping better, they're less inflamed, they're losing weight. And so I think for a lot of women, it's figuring out what's the right recipe, if you will, to allow them to continue to age in a way that is aligned with their the way they want to live their lives.

So, your mom, you got two teenage boys. What is the fasting practice that you do in your life at this season of life?

Yeah, I would say for me, I fast consistently, but I'm not doing a lot of long fasts. I did that before and I always-.

It's multiple day fasts.

I used to do that and then I had a hospitalization and then I said, I will never fast like that ever again. Really? Yeah, that whole process of going through that, I said, I've checked the box. I've done some very long fasts.

What was the longest?

That I wanted to fast? Probably five days. And then when I had a 13-day hospitalization and didn't eat, I just said, I've done that. I don't need to do that again. So my typical- Did they go to.

Hospitalization start because of the fast?

No, I had a ruptured appendix. And the ruptured appendix led to one complication after another.

You didn't eat for 13 days?

No.

So you're the fasting person, but you did it not wanting to do it.

No, no.

At that point, yeah.

No, and it's, you know, I had a set of complications, but I was so sick, I lost 15 pounds in 13 days. And so I came out of the hospital looking like a skeleton.

Bones.

Yeah. But it was, you know.

When was this?

2019.

Oh wow, okay. Was this before the TED Talk?

This is what preceded that talk.

Okay, so what did you learn from, this hospitalization.

Oh, gosh. Well, there's nothing more humbling than being a health care provider and then becoming a patient.

Oh, man.

And I recognized the first week how I knew how sick I was. And I had a fantastic team of doctors and a fantastic team of nurses. But there's something to be said for even the most positive person suddenly becoming despondent and depressed. And I felt five days in, I was so depressed. because my surgeon kept saying, We don't know why you're not getting better. We don't know why you're not getting better. And I knew that they didn't figure out why I wasn't getting better, that there was not going to be a positive outcome.

Oh.

And so I always say that whether it was a spirit, the universe, something came to me and said, you, have a choice. What's your choice? And my choice was I wanted to live. I wanted to get home to my kids, and I wanted to live. And so from that point forward, I said, I promise that if I get out of this hospital and get out of this bed, I'm going to, there are specific things I'm going to focus on. My family, I want to do this talk. I missed every milestone for this TED Talk because I was in the hospital and I said, I'm so committed to doing this talk, I want to show my kids I'm okay. I want them to know I'm okay. And that was the intention I set, was that if I get out of this hospital, I'm going to do this talk to prove to my kids that I'm okay.

Wow. Did you have this talk planned before the hospital?

Not 100%. I just knew the topic. And that was what we had agreed upon for this particular venue. And for me, the big message was through adversity comes opportunity. And so I, you know, 27 days after I left the hospital, I did that talk.

Come on.

27 days. And I did it with a ruptured appendix.

Oh my gosh.

Yeah. I was too sick to take to surgery. I had so many complications. They just said, if we can stabilize you enough, We'll send you home, we'll do surgery later.

Did you eventually do surgery?

I did, 10 days after that. Holy cow. Yeah, and so I went to, I didn't feel bad once I got out of the hospital and my mom was, you know, feeding, making sure I was eating anything just to stay, you know, stay alive. Nourished, yeah.

So what was the complication in the first place?

Like what happened, did they know? Well, I had, so it was the ruptured appendix, but by the time I went to the hospital, it wasn't as if I ignored symptoms. I thought I had food poisoning. Until I didn't. And then when I went to the hospital, they found out my entire length of my colon was inflamed. And they said, if we take you to surgery tonight, we're gonna take your colon. I said, Time out, I need my colon. And they're like, no, no, you don't need your colon. I said, no, I need my colon. And so I said, Please give me the time to save my colon, because if you don't have a colon, you wear a colostomy bag. Oh, no. And that was not how I wanted to live. You didn't wanna live. No. And so then it turned into, on day I developed a small bowel obstruction. I looked six months pregnant. Come on. And then by day five or six, they figured out I had, they call them retroperitoneal abscesses, which means in your peritoneum, which is your sterile cavity of your abdomen, I had developed abscesses, so infections. So they had to call in an interventional radiologist in the middle of the night to put drains in. And then I developed a fistula. So it was kind of like this domino effect, and my surgeon kept saying, this would only happen to another healthcare provider. And there's nothing worse than knowing something's wrong with you and being in a position where you just fully have to surrender. Maybe that's the bigger message, is that I had to just surrender. I could not out-think anything that was going on. And I remember my cousin, who's a physician, came to stay with me because I told my husband to keep the kids out of the hospital because they were so stressed. and she kept telling me, she was like, you can't buck what they're trying to recommend. They gave me liquid nutrition in a bag. And I kept saying, do you have any organic TPN, which is this total parenteral nutrition, and my cousin's like, you need to stop it.

Just take whatever.

Yeah, exactly. That was the big takeaway, is just surrender to the process.

Now, how long were you fasting or trying intermittent or longer fast before this moment?

Oh, probably five days is probably my max.

I think for how many years before did you start?

At least three or four prior to that. So I was definitely, you know, metabolically healthy and I credit the fact that I had a very different outcome than other people would have had with the fact that I was so healthy. I had enough reserve, not a lot, as evidenced by the fact I lost so much weight, but my body was breaking my muscle down for food. that's essentially what happened. It's crazy. Yeah, it's hard to process.

So what do you think led to that? What was like the root cause of that happening, do you think?

You know, I've had conversations with a good friend, a mutual friend, Dr. Gabrielle Lyon, and about six months before I got sick, I had been in Morocco. My husband and I had gone to Morocco. We were celebrating an anniversary, went to Morocco and Spain, and in Morocco I got the worst food poisoning of my life. like to the point where I was like, this is bad. I don't want to be in Morocco and be sick. And so we suspect that probably started a cascade of events because I picked up a parasite and our working kind of hypothesis is that was probably the starting point. That just kind of got things rolling. But I feel so fortunate that I was having the rupture to panics in the United States.

Right.

Where I get a certain degree of care.

So you don't think the fasting, the extreme fasting to five days was any effect or had any effect on this? No, and I didn't do really long.

Fasts with any frequency. I mean, there's certainly a law of diminishing returns if you're lean.

Right, you're not going to lose more.

Weight, you're just going to lose the muscle. Right, and so I'm very proactive about not losing muscle. So for me, it was definitely not that I had been doing too much fasting. I just suspect it was The timing, I literally just gotten back from a trip with my husband. I accompanied him to Hawaii. He had a business trip. And I was like, oh, I'm gonna practice. I'm gonna start writing my TED Talk while I was there. And so I just think it was, I'm grateful I didn't have a ruptured appendix on the plane. You know, the things I think about coming all the way from Hawaii all the way back to the East Coast, which is a pretty long leg. So long. You know, for me, I just say I'm grateful that it happened in a hospital where I knew the doctors, I knew a lot of the nurses, I.

Knew I got exemplary care.

There's no question.

Right.

So what have we learned then about the metabolism? Because you mentioned about how people have been thinking or the latest trends in the last 10-15 years is like have small meals every two, three hours, little snacks, six meals a day, whatever it is. Because that speeds up the metabolism, I think is what has been said. What is the research or the science saying about that not being the case and actually having less meals? in your mind?

Well, I mean, I really am very aligned with this whole carb insulin model for metabolic health. And so when we're telling our patients and we're telling the general public, eat to stoke your metabolism, breakfast is the most important meal of the day. I'm here to tell people that eating so frequently and eating a lot of carbohydrates is keeping your insulin levels higher than they should be, which is going to make it virtually impossible to lose weight because you need your insulin levels to be low to actually free up fatty acids stored fat to be able to use as a fuel substrate. And so I think we have really done a tremendous disservice to the public. I think a lot of, you know, what we see coming out from the federal government, whether it's my plate or a lot of the plant-based narrative, and I don't want to be inflammatory because I'm respectful of people's choices, but I think a lot of the information that we've been sharing with patients has been disproven on a lot of different levels that we need to eat less frequently, more protein, right types of fats, right types of carbohydrates. I'm not anti-carb, but for the bulk of the population, when we look at studies, I mean, 7-8% of the population is metabolically healthy coming out of this pandemic. We've got to change what we're doing. We have to course correct. And so, leaning into the research that's looking at these low-carb ketogenic diets, more protein, helping with satiety, think about it, when we're eating snacks and mini meals, were you ever satiated? No. your blood sugar goes up, it comes back down, and it's this roller coaster of constant hunger, lack of satiety, so you're eating more foods. I think about the fact that I have teenage boys and they're running mantra in our houses, where's the protein? They're like, mom. And they'll sit down and I'm like, I don't mind if you have the pasta. You're a growing athlete.

This is your- yeah, you're running around for three hours a day, you can.

Have a bowl of pasta. Right, and you can have rice, but where's your protein? And so that's always the conversation.

Interesting.

If you really look at a lot of the metabolic health research that's being done, you know, people like Ben Bikman, who's an insulin researcher and is really talking about the role of insulin that at the basis of all chronic disease right now is insulin resistance. Really? And so high blood pressure, obviously diabetes, polycystic ovarian syndrome, a lot of these neurocognitive disorders that we're starting to see, like early onset dementia, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, all at the root cause at the base are a lot of these insulin disorders. And so, and you get, I guess.

Your insulin spikes just when you're eating. So if you're eating less, then your insulin will go down, is that right? Right.

So in response, so we know that when we're looking at macronutrients, so protein, fat, and carbohydrates, we're going to have a more exaggerated response with carbohydrates than protein than fats. And so explaining to people that I'm not anti-carb at all. It's just understanding you want to always be making sure that when you're having a meal, you want to blunt that response. So we don't want these wildly exaggerated blood sugar responses. We want to have a blood sugar response, of course, but we don't have to create so much insulin to bring that blood sugar back down. Yes. And so that's unfortunately what happens is people have chronically high insulin, they're weight loss resistant, and it's because their body.

Can'T go in and free up those fatty acids because they're just constantly stoking this fire. And if we never give our digestive system rest, what happens? If it's like kind of, okay, every 3-2-3-4 hours, there's something we're ingesting. And it's always working. What is happening to our gut, our brain, and our body? No, that's a great point. Well, there's lots of things physiologically that.

Go on that are unable to be optimized when we're chronically eating. One example is there's something called the migrating motor complex. It's kind of like the janitor in the gut. It's kind of pushing things along, pushing food along. and we need about four to five hours for that to kind of that sweet sweeper to come through and it's getting rid of debris and things that don't belong in the gut. And so if you're eating all the time, it's like your gut just becomes really less optimized. It doesn't get into a position where you're actually be able to take the time to extract all the nutrients. It's almost like you're crying. It's like the best example I can give you is my dad likes to fill his tank when he gets to, you know, three quarters of a tank. And it's like you're constantly topping off the tank. You're never allowing your body to actually utilize the fuel that you've eaten. You're just storing it because your body's never in this position where it's able to fully enjoy this. So what happens with your brain, you've got high insulin. If you've got high blood sugar, you're gonna have brain fog. You might get tired. Think about all the people that wanna take a nap after a meal. That's not normal. And that's because your body's trying to figure out how to manage this blood sugar response. People will deal with constipation. One of the first things people will say when they're fasting is, oh my gosh, I didn't realize I was meant to have a bowel movement once a day. And it's because they're constipated. Their body's just literally backed up with a backlog of nutrients. Yeah, so it's definitely, there's a lot of things from subtle changes, energy, cognition can be impacted adversely. And just, you know, the other piece of it that I always explain to people is people think it's normal to be bloated, people think it's normal to be constipated. and a lot of it, you're just not allowing your body to be fully optimized. You're not allowing your body to get to a position where it's able to utilize what you fed it. You're just continuing to top off that tank.

So how many meals a day should we have? Because Dr. David Sinclair says that he's now been doing kind of a one meal a day approach and just having a longer fast almost every day. And he's seeing benefits from that experiment for himself. Should we be doing two meals a day? How much time in between our meals? where you don't have the top off feeling, what's your beliefs on that?

Well, I obviously respect Dr. Sinclair's work enormously, but the longevity researchers, they're not meeting their protein needs. So to me, at a bare minimum, if we're looking at the changes that happen in skeletal muscle with aging and that impacts our insulin sensitivity, I always say at least two meals a day. It really depends. I have some very athletic men They can manage it, they can manage it. They need those three meals to get at least their boluses of protein in to help ward off sarcopenia, which is this muscle loss with aging. So the right answer is bio-individuality rules. I think most women can get by with two meals. I think very active men probably need three. I'm not a fan of OMAD as a sustained strategy. What's OMAD? OMAD is one meal a day. Only one meal a day, yeah.

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Especially if you're, you know, I'm 6'4, 240 pounds, so I probably need 200 grams of protein a day.

Correct.

Right? Especially if I'm lifting and running and, you know, a physical.

Yeah, and I think that's where I always, it's interesting during, you know, the height of like the book launch press that I was doing, I got that question a lot and I would say, I am not aligned with some of the longevity researchers in the respect that I'm far more concerned about maintaining skeletal muscle than I am worried about restricting calories to a point where you're chronically going to be in a state of not enough ability.

Right. Because if you're 60, 70, 80 and you fall and you can't push yourself up, then that's another issue.

Yeah, I mean that's a strength.

Yes, it's learning how to stay flexible and strong as we age, not just having minimal calories.

Right. And I think that's an important distinction because I inherited, I now co-host another podcast. And one of the things that I differentiated with the prior podcast host was, I'm not a big fan of OMAD and let me tell you why. And I said, I'm not saying if you're on vacation, you overeat the next day, you're like, I need to get back on track. Sure, sure. Just have one meal. But as a sustained strategy, I don't think most men and women are going to be able to get their macros in. And that's a greater concern because I see what starts happening to people when they're less metabolically flexible, when all of a sudden they start becoming more insulin resistant and the bulk of the population, it's like we have to have those frank conversations to say, as a clinician, we have to do better. And the way we do better is having those frank discussions. You must maintain insulin sensitivity.

How much protein should women be having on a daily basis?

I would say to minimum 100 grams.

No matter how your size, your age, your body composition.

It's a good benchmark starting point because I find most women are probably eating 40 over 50. And then they're wondering why I can't get gains in the gym. I lost all my muscle strength. What's going on? And I'm like, well, your sex hormones are fluctuating. That's number one. That's contributing. But then you're making it worse because the best example, like I love analogies, is like young people's muscle looks like a filet. Older people's muscle looks like a ribeye. So that fat and that marbling is what starts to change in the muscles themselves. And so although a ribeye is delicious, we don't want to be a full ribeye because that's going to make us much less metabolically flexible. And so I think that analogy makes people go, oh, yeah, I want to eat a ribeye.

I don't want to be a ribeye. Interesting. So 100 grams of protein a day for women on average is a good benchmark.

For men, I guess 150 to 200, depending on your size and your- yeah, I think that's reasonable. And I think also, as an example, you are still at a stage where you've got your testosterone's where it should be. I think most younger men absolutely want to be shooting for more protein. I would say men 50 and above might need a little bit less, but it probably depends on what they're doing in terms of are you lifting, are you hitting that muscle protein synthesis, which is certainly really important.

What if we're eating the protein, but we're not working out at all?

That's a problem.

Is that what happens to the body then?

Well, I mean, if you're, well, you're still, so muscle loss with aging is a question of if, but when. You know, it's going to happen. So sarcopenia is a real thing. There's also, you know, loss of muscle strength, and it goes up by the decade. So if you're looking at the research.

At a 40-year-old versus a 50-year-old, it starts to accelerate.

Unless you're taking like steroids or HGH or some, Injection to, you know. Right, and a lot of people, I mean, I'll be honest, both men and women can take, we know that there is, you know, there's value in women having progesterone and estrogen and testosterone if appropriate as they are going through menopause. And for men and andropause, the number one reason why men have low testosterone in the United States is, you know, insulin resistant and estrogen mimicking chemicals that they're exposed to. So there's so many different factors that contribute, but I always say, Strength training should be a bare minimum for everyone. Like a bare minimum. I think that's another thing. People think they can be the cardio bunny forever and they just need to walk. And all those things, HIIT has its place and walking and flexibility training certainly has its place, but let's be real. Strength training is critically important. Yes. And we have peak bone and muscle mass in our 20s and 30s. And how many people don't realize that till they're 50? Right. And then they're trying to play catch up.

That's very hard to do.

Yes.

And very painful.

Yes. And really to work out at that effort, most people don't understand what that effort requires.

Yeah, it requires a lot more protein too. A lot more sleep, a lot more recovery, all those things.

Yeah, it's all critically important. But I think we don't, when we're looking at optimization, that's also really important. And I talk a lot about that in the book, like protein, protein, protein, you're probably not eating enough. you should probably be doing some strength training as well.

Just having granola and yogurt for your meals all day is not going to do it. No, and it's funny, last night my.

Cousin took me to a restaurant not realizing it was a plant-based restaurant. And so I was like, oh, well, I can have a vegetable dinner. That's fine. But then I realized that all the protein that was at this particular restaurant was all processed plant-based protein. And so we just politely kind of got up and then we went out and had and so I was like, okay, this is going to be a much better last meal of the day. Right.

So, again, there's a lot of different vegan, vegetarian, plant-based individuals that really believe that you can get enough protein from plants. And maybe you can. I feel like when I've tried to do that, I don't feel like I'm getting as much or I have to have more powders or something like that for what I need. What is the difference between plant protein or processed plant proteins, you know, foods versus meats and eggs and things like that?

Yeah, I mean, I'm always very sensitive that it's meeting people where they are. And so, I think a plant-based protein that's a whole source protein, like whether it's hemp hearts or legumes or beans, etc., is very different than the Impossible Burger. Or some of these processed things that have seed oils and a lot of, we don't know enough about these pea-based proteins yet to feel, like I don't feel comfortable saying this is, I think, an equivalent. Animal-based protein is, the amino acid profile is always going to be superior to plant-based protein. My concerns about plant-based protein is never that it's, you know, the traditional, like, real food plant-based protein. Let me just be clear about that. That's very different than the processed varieties. But my concern is always if you are already insulin resistant and you are trying to consume enough plant-based protein, it's going to be at the detriment to your carbohydrate intake. Like I think it's six cups of quinoa is equivalent to like an eight ounce steak or something along those lines. And so the amount of carbohydrate you'd have to take in and calories for that matter would be substantial. And so I think it's a very sticky wicket. So I oftentimes will say, can I get you to eat some eggs, maybe some fish? Try to find ways to bridge the gap. Sure. And be respectful of where people are in time and space. Absolutely. Because for me, it's like, listen, I just want people to be healthy. And I want to just meet them where they are and help educate them so that they can make good decisions.

Sure. And what about bowel movements? You mentioned that earlier.

How many bowel movements should we have a day? What is healthy? Well, when I went to school, they used to say one after every meal. Now, that's not realistic, right? I mean, who has time to put aside with every single meal? I would say to bare minimum one, at least one bowel movement a day. But I think we've gotten so convinced that this is normal to be constipated. And I always say, it's not normal to be constipated. I used to have patients that were on 50 medications and one of the side effects of probably 10 of them was constipation and we would give them three other drugs to get them to go to the bathroom. And that was normal. And how many women come to me and they go to the bathroom twice a week? And I'm like, that's not normal because stool is the byproduct of what our body's trying to get rid of. Waste. It's correct. And we're trying to, instead you're just recirculating estrogens and all sorts of other things that don't belong in the body. So the first question is, are you drinking enough water? Do you exercise? Drink some more water, right? Exactly. Are you eating some vegetables? It doesn't necessarily have to be fiber vegetables. Right. It's like add in two green salads a day. I have this whole hierarchy of things. a tablespoon of fresh ground chia seeds and flax seeds, throw it in a smoothie, throw it on your salad. It'll help you digest that. And it's like, you know, other than that, I think about a lot of people don't have a gallbladder or they've got sludgy bile and so they're not able to break down and emulsify fats properly. And so when they start eating a more nutrient dense diet, all of a sudden everything slows down even more. And I'm like, okay, let's work on bile supportive foods. And so we talk about shaved beets and carrots and artichoke hearts and even aloe vera juice. I mean, all these things can be helpful but I would say, listen, it is not normal to be constipated. And if it's a new thing, you need to talk to your healthcare professional. If it's a chronic thing, you don't.

Have to live that way. Got it. So you're supposed to be doing it once a day. Twice a day is okay.

Twice a day is okay. Three is okay. Three is okay.

And I do have some patients that that is their norm. How long is it supposed to take when the food goes into your system? What is the process of how long it should take until that food is gone.

Usually like 18 to 24 hours, is that food.

Ideally, because the previous meal is coming.

Out after you eat obviously. And so there's actually bowel motility activation when you eat that it's designed to move things forward. So sometimes when people have their morning coffee or they have their first meal, they feel like they need to go have a bowel movement and that is a byproduct physiologically. Your body's like, okay, food's coming in, the rest needs to go. Push it out, interesting.

Exactly.

So 18 to 20 hours is that we're talking about? 18 to 24 hours is about where, you know, and I actually do in one of my programs, I actually do a corn test. And so they have two tablespoons of corn and-- See when it comes out.

Correct.

And so they're, you know, they're being their own detective, but anyone that's listening can do that as well. Like a really simple way to see, is it things moving too fast, things moving too slowly? And it's very insightful. I think people just assume whatever is their norm is the norm, and sometimes it's not.

So 18 to 24 hours is a healthy, Bowel movement, right? That's interesting. So should we have like a couple pieces of corn in every meal to see?

Well, I think you just have to pay attention. I think I forget, like nurses, we talk about poop and bodily functions all the time so to us there's no stigma. But for a lot of people, they're just uncomfortable talking about what goes on with their bodies. So I always say, don't be afraid to kind of play a little bit of detective and figure out what's normal for you.

And is that healthy? Right. What is the process then for women specifically looking to have a reset with their metabolism to lose some weight and just feel overall healthier with their hormones and their body? What is part of this 45-day process? Is it multiple days of fasting throughout? Is it certain foods? What is the process like?

Well, it is a 45-day program and there's no really long fasts in the book. I mean, they're no longer than a day and a have, but because it's meeting people where they are. So some people have been fasting, they're ready for the challenges. Some people are like, I'm a standard American diet person. I've been a couch potato for 30 years. I need help so we can kind of meet all their needs. But I think it really speaks to the fact that we have to talk about lifestyle. We have to talk about are you getting good sleep? Are you managing your stress? And that's not five minutes of meditation once a week. And how many of us think that check the box, that's what's done it. and it's really talking to people about anti-inflammatory nutrition. Unfortunately, most of the foods that proliferate in the processed food industry are highly inflammatory. And I'm talking about gluten and dairy. I always get the side eye from people like, no, not dairy. Sometimes in certain instances, sometimes grains, processed sugars, alcohol. Alcohol is a big one.

Alcohol is really bad.

Yeah.

Especially if you're having it consistently. I don't know. Andrew Huberman just did a whole breakdown masterclass on alcohol for the brain and the body. And he was essentially like, there is no benefit. There's only bad things that can come from that. Not even like, oh, what about a little bit of wine every now and then? And there's veratrol that's in the wine, but he's like, it doesn't outweigh the alcohol itself having a little bit in that resveratrol, whatever. So I think I've never been drunk in my life or high and I'll have like maybe like a Bailey's on ice a couple times a year. It's like sip on but I'm like, yeah, I just feel like there is no added value.

Yeah.

You know, try to find something fast during that time, right? You'll get a lot more value for your body with that.

Well, and it's interesting because I feel like more and more people in the health and wellness space are either no longer drinking and never had problems with it but just choose not to drink. And when I go to these events, like I was an event in New York this past weekend, and most if not all of us don't drink. And so, you know, I think it's a very personal decision. I know for women north of 40, all of a sudden, you know, they get hot flashes. They don't, I mean, who makes good choices when you've had too much to drink? You're not going to make good choices personally or with nutrition because you're going to crave, you know, the salty, sweet junk. and your body processes alcohol as a toxin. So, you know, it's one of those things that I'm glad that more and more experts, and obviously Dr. Humbleman is absolutely brilliant, and I'm so glad that he is using his platform to help educate people, because I think we've been convinced otherwise for a long period of time. Sure. And certainly for me, you know, being, you know, former ER nurse in inner city Baltimore, and, you know, working with thousands and thousands of patients, like having those hard discussions about does alcohol serve you? And I think that's a really important point.

Yeah, and I get it. There's people that they like their alcohol, they like their wine, all these things, I get it. Their tequila, their shots, they like going to the bar and having fun. And I just, I mean, it's kind of like with me with sugar, I love sugar, but I know it's not good for me. It doesn't do good things to my body. So I try to have days where I don't have any, and then I have some, and I'm like, Okay, I'm just gonna enjoy this, but I know this is not benefiting me. This is not giving me any nutritional value. It's not helping my brain, my digestion, my heart, none of that. It might bring me some joy in the moment, right? Just like alcohol might for people, but you gotta understand the risks. Obviously, just being in moderation is the best thing, but I think, what do you think is worse, sugar or alcohol?

I think it depends on the susceptibility of the individual. I don't drink alcohol anymore, but I was always someone that didn't drink a whole lot. So that wasn't a problem, but I think processed sugars because we start people so young, I mean think about what we do with children's birthday parties and every sporting event that you're constantly doling out sugar, we get people addicted really early on. I would imagine that processed sugars are really in almost everything. And so I think that is a greater issue. But I would be remiss if I said, you know, I personally have been impacted by alcoholism with a family member. And so for me, alcoholism holds a special spot in that I recognize a lot of people, and it's not just alcohol. It could be any, it could be food addiction, it could be so many other things, that it's, people have uncomfortable feelings that they aren't comfortable processing or acknowledging. And so, that might be why they choose to numb it a little bit, correct.

And so no judgment, of course. Yeah, of course.

And so, no judgment.

Yeah, of course.

I'm completely sympathetic to all that, but I would say processed sugars for sure.

And what if someone's never fasted before, what do they need to understand.

As.

A potential effects that will happen with fasting, whether it be 16 hours, 24 hours, or two days, what do people need to know before they do their first fast.

Yeah, I mean, I usually have kind of a graduated perspective. Like, first you stop snacking. Like, it really is that simple. So if someone is, you know, really starting from a place where they've been eating a standard American diet, they're not physically active, I'm like, we need to teach you to stop snacking because I promise you're not going to get hungry in between because we're going to teach you how to balance your macros. So you're going to have more protein with your meal so that you can get from breakfast to lunch and lunch and dinner. and you're going to eventually get to a position where you can go from dinner to breakfast. Now that freaks everyone out.

Without having chips at night or something. Correct. It's so challenging when you're so used to it. You have dinner and then you just want to have a couple, you know, some chips or something, a cookie or.

Whatever it is, before you go to bed. Yeah, and I think you have to replace that habit with something else.

Like tea.

Right. Even if I have a lot of people that have herbal tea at nighttime. They take a walk with their dogs. They call a friend, maybe they've got a friend who's fasting with them. So it starts with no snacking, restructuring those macros. And then really the next step is going from dinner to breakfast.

Right, just dinner? And that's it.

Right, right. But I think you have to kind of get yourself out of that headspace. Think very clearly about why are you choosing to fast? Is it because you want to get healthier? I can't tell you how many people I meet who are like, I was told I had pre-diabetes. That was a powerful impetus to shake things up. Or, you know, I've got young children at home or I've got a loved one I have to take care of. And so all of a sudden, you know, people's priorities shift. It's like, I have to take care of me because other people depend on me. So getting very clear about your intentions because that's what you're going to need to reflect on when you are considering what the options will be. So for a lot of people, that evening snacking, and I think the last two and a half years in particular, people have just been stressed and they don't know how to deal with the stress. And so stress eating has really become a huge issue. But I always remind people that we become less insulin sensitive as the day goes on. So you would be better off having an early breakfast than eating late at night. You know, that three-hour window before bed is really important. And so understanding- To not eat at night. Yeah. Right. That insulin sensitivity is lowered at nighttime. and so that late night eating can really derail even if you're doing all the right things. So when someone's new to fasting, those are usually the first three things that we talk about. And then I say, listen, baby steps. We go from 12 hours to 12 and a half. If you need a break, we do that. Then we go to 13. And so really saying to people, you are eventually going to get to a point, but also explaining to them that if you are primarily using glucose as your primary fuel source, it's going to take you longer to become fat adapted to where your body is, your insulin levels are low enough that they can go in and free up these fatty acids to fuel the body. So saying it could take four, six, eight weeks for that to happen, depending on how metabolically flexible someone is. I mean, some people are like a duck to water. It's two weeks, easy, no big deal. But more often than not, that's not the case. And just helping people understand that everyone's an individual, some people, You know, you take two steps forward and four back. It's all okay. It's part of the process. We want this to be sustainable. Yes. And there's no benefit to white knuckling it with fasting. Like some people white knuckle everything they.

Do, and I'm like, that is not.

The way to live. No, it's not.

It's not sustainable.

No.

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What's the lifestyle approach you have now after these last few years of testing it and trying it and having case studies with other women? How do you live your life? moving forward personally?

Is it a fasting once a week?

Is it every other day? What's your style?

Yeah, I would say I'm very intuitive. So depending on how hungry am I? Did I lift that day? What was my sleep like? Did my aura ring bark at me and tell me my sleep score is in the toilet? Maybe that's not the day to push the fasting envelope and push doing a heavy workout. So I tend to really listen to my body, but the consistent things are I don't eat after 6:00 at night ideally. I do much better having an earlier feeding window. That works for me. It might not work for someone else. I really focus in on sleep. I eat a lot of protein. I always say I'm carnivore-ish. I like vegetables. I do eat carbs, but I carb cycle. And that's worked really well for me. I don't drink alcohol, and there's no judgment for those that do. I just know it was the only thing that gave me hot flashes and messed up my sleep and my sleep, like on the hierarchy of Important sleep is so high up there that to me, I'm like, it's not worth it to have a martini every six months. It just isn't.

Sure. So for me- what about sugar?

What's your sugar intake like? I'll be honest with you, my vice in life is dark chocolate. That's my only, but that's really the one thing. And so I have a little bit of dark chocolate every day, but most of the time it's sweetened with stevia. And I don't have it on today, but I usually wear a continuous glucose monitor kind of episodically. And so for me, it's like that's my one vice. Like, I don't eat dairy, I don't eat grains, I don't eat gluten, and.

I haven't for a long time.

No bread, no cereals, no pastries. No, and I don't really love that.

Stuff, but my dark chocolate is my thing. I wish I had that disease where.

I didn't love breaded pastries. Yeah, no, but I think for me it's like you mentioned, the cost benefit. I don't feel good when I eat those things. And I put an autoimmune disease into.

Remission when I went gluten-free.

Free.

So you had an autoimmune disease?

I did. I had two. And so, yeah. And so once you get leaky gut, that kind of opens up that, it's like once you have one, you're more prone to others. And for me, I was like, you know, I have to get myself together. And so for 11 years, I've been gluten free.

Wow. So you eliminated certain foods where you're like, let's try this. And then it started to heal.

Yeah. And then you're like, well, why go back on now? Right. And so for me, it's, you know, it's funny, like on vacation, will people say, oh, we have gluten-free bad might I have? a piece of gluten-free bread, but I also recognize it sets up that I.

Get that dopamine hit. I'm like, oh, it tastes good.

Let's get more. Exactly. It's so hard to have one. Yeah, and that's why, and so my kind of mindset now is it used to be moderation, not deprivation, but if you can't moderate, you eliminate. And so that's kind of how I.

Think, like each one of us has to decide. I don't know. I don't have moderation in me.

It's either all in or all out.

Right, but you recognize that about yourself. That's really what's so important. So challenging. I would love to get to the point where I could be like, okay, you know, once or twice a week, I can have a small taste of ice cream, not a whole bucket of ice cream or something, you know? But once you have a little bit, it's so hard to trick your brain that you don't desire this so much. Well, do you get that massive craving?

Bring the drug on your tongue and it just rushes your whole body. It's casomorphin, so it's actually, and it's interesting, even Peter Attia loves ice cream. So my husband actually came home one day and said, I was listening to Peter Attia And even he has a weakness for ice cream. He said, so I don't feel quite so bad. But ice cream in our house, not that I eat it, but like that is their crack. Of course, yeah.

Is there an ice cream that you could eat that's good for you? Like a protein ice cream that has no sugar or something?

I think you could probably make it.

I mean, probably wouldn't taste the same, but you know.

I just try to get them like Aldi's, which is this organic ice cream. And then I feel like, okay, now I'm like, listen guys, when the half gallon is gone, it's gone. And so the teenagers will sneak downstairs and they'll eat it. I mean, they'll literally just eat it out of the carton. And they'll do it to one another so that the one teenager will try to eat it so the other one can't eat it. Then my husband will eat it.

Oh man, the teenage days when I had eight Dr. Peppers a day in the summer and, you know, just ice cream all night.

Yeah, and they're impervious. Like my 17-year-old's six feet tall. The six pack and, yeah, oh, he's ridiculous. Plays football and he's he can eat anything he wants.

That's crazy. So you're kind of like an intuitive person right now. You'll fast. Are you doing intermittent fasting every other day?

How does that work? I do. I would say I fast most days. So it could be 14, it could be 18 hours. I can tell you when I came out from the East Coast, we had a 90-minute ground delay in Denver. And so when I got to the hotel, I remember saying to my husband, I was like, normally I wouldn't eat this much food this late in the day, but I'm like, I ordered a double burger, I ordered hard-boiled eggs, and I just ate this massive meal. So for me, I think a lot of it is based on like what's going on with my schedule. I fast every day, but sometimes I fast only 12 or 13 hours. It really depends on what's going on.

And then you focus on the protein intake. How do I get my protein in? And usually when you eat enough protein, you don't feel as hungry. Correct.

That's the thing. When we have carbs, we need more carbs. Right. And so I always say when you break your fast, protein and healthy fats or protein and carbs. It's never carbs naked. You know, I use the term naked carbs, meaning you don't just sit down and eat a bowl of chips. You want to have a steak or a piece of chicken or a piece.

Of fish or some egg. And you can have some carbs with that. Correct. But eat the meat or the protein first. Yep. So that's the first thing we should do once we break the fast, whether.

It'S 14 hours or 24 hours, is have protein first.

Right.

And I think the other thing is that Some people, and I'm certainly guilty of this, if I do a longer fast, the longer the fast, the lighter the meal when you break your fast. So when I used to do longer fasts, I would have bone broth because if I sat down and ate a.

Meal, my stomach was like, no.

Like a four or five-day fast. Right. I had to have very light meals. Soup, salad, soup. And there are people that are definitely more sensitive to when they break their fast. So I always say if you get digestive distress or you don't feel good, lighter meal, break it with something light, and then eat a more substantial meal later.

What's the worst foods to eat after you fast?

Oh, I would say just sitting down and eating a bunch of processed carbs. Don't sit down and have a bowl of ice cream. You're gonna spike your blood sugar, spike your insulin. I would say the processed carbs, if you sat down and had some rice and had some chicken, I mean that would be fine. But I would say most of the processed foods because your appetite and satiety cues are not going to be clicked in. And I'm sure you probably have had experts that have talked about this, but the Bliss Point, the processed food industry hijacks your brain chemistry so you don't realize you can eat two bags of Cheetos and you don't feel it. No, you don't. It's crazy. Right.

And it's designed to be that way.

Oh, they taste so good. I haven't had a Cheeto in a very long time.

Really?

Yeah.

You're very disciplined then with food, huh? I am, but it's-- Especially after three years ago with the health scale, right?

Yeah. Well, I think for me, I am so attuned to how my body feels that I just know I can't run my business, run my personal life, do all these things, travel if I'm treating my body poorly. And for me, I have to honor my body by eating healthy because I feel good. Like, I actually crave healthy foods. I don't-- I'm not one of those people that's like white knuckling, like, Louis, this is what I try to do, but I'm miserable all the time. Sure. You know, I think that's an important distinction. Like, I recognize that I'm probably not the average person. I'm happy doing what I do.

Right, right, right. I think that's important. You enjoy it. I mean, you look very lean, right? You look very healthy, very lean. Do you attribute a lot of that to just fasting and being disciplined with food choices?

I think it's, well, so I always, I think food is one of the most important choices we make. But I know at this stage of the game, the other things I do are equally important. So I would be the first person to say that it's a combination of eating an anti-inflammatory diet, lifting weights, getting enough sleep, being happy. Like, dude, we don't talk enough about this. Like just being happy. Like I just celebrated my 19th wedding anniversary. Wow. And, Congrats. Thank you. And so I tell people that decision for me, has been so instrumental in being the person that I am today. And so I think we oftentimes don't talk enough about being personally fulfilled, being emotionally fulfilled, you know, being with the person that makes you feel safe and makes you feel appreciated and valued. And so, you know, if you don't have that person right now, that person is out there. I'm here to say, I mean, I got married in my 30s. And I remember thinking, you know, it wasn't going to happen because I how many times that I had been maid of honor in weddings and I was like, It's not gonna happen. And then I met him and I was like, oh, I understand why I had to wait. But I think it's all of those things. And then on top of it, like not being afraid of hormones if you're in a position where, you know, I was certainly in a position where I have benefited from taking hormone replacement therapy. I have benefited from, you know, I always say progesterone is like the most magic bullet to help me sleep. I'm like, if I didn't have my progesterone, that would be terrible. And so I think it's a lot of different factors, but people shouldn't be afraid to say, I'm not going to stay at the party till midnight because I'm not going to function as well tomorrow morning if I don't get my sleep. Or finding what foods work for you or don't work for you. And eating less often could be 12 hours of digestive rest.

There's no shame in that. Now, the whole viral TED Talk thing about fasting, you weren't really a fasting person before that. You weren't really talking about that.

You weren't publicly addressing it, right? Well, I mean, I was so I started fasting myself and then in 2018, I had said to my husband, because I'm an introvert, I said, I want to do a TED Talk because this will be a good challenge for me. Sure. And so, it's a numbers game. You apply to a lot. And if I told you how many TED Talks I applied to, you'd probably be stunned. I always say it's a numbers game. I think people assume you apply to one or two and then you get it. It doesn't work that way. At least it didn't for me. How many did you apply for? Over 80. 80? Yes. They all said no?

A lot of them said no.

Then a couple said yes, and you.

Chose one at the end. Well, I did a TED Talk in.

Toronto in December of 2018 talking about the uber-sexy topic of perimenopause. Okay. And right around that time, I was offered a second, and it was in the state I was born in, which is South Carolina, and I was like, oh, you know, I love South Carolina. I'd love to do it there. And I had to make a decision, you can't do two talks about the same subject. And so I remember looking at my husband and I said, what should I do this talk on? I said, what do I know a lot about? He goes, intermittent fasting. It was that easy. And so I said, oh, we're gonna do the talk about intermittent fasting. And then they said, Cynthia, we really want you to speak at our event, but we really would like to have a female slanted discussion because people are always asking for this. So that was the next thing that was decided for me. And so I was talking about fasting in my group programs and with my clients. But I wasn't per se hanging a shingle and saying, I'm the fasting guru. And so when I say intermittent fasting picked me, it's because after that talk went viral, it was like, Whoa, now I have a platform to be able to help more people. And so I very humbly accept that. But yeah, when that talk went viral, that changed everything. And we weren't prepared at all. I told my kids, We're gonna have a low-key summer. I mean, no big deal. And then all of a sudden it was like my website crashed and all of a sudden we were scrambling to. --This was 2019, right? --Yeah. --Wow. --Yeah. So the talk was in March and then the talk was released in May and then boom.

It was like, like everything took off.

--Yeah. --And now the book. --And then the book. Yeah. And then so then the book opportunity came out and the irony, and I'm sure this probably happened to you early in your career, the people reach out and they wanted you to write a book and I remember I went to New York and I met this one publisher and I was like, yeah, I don't think I want to write the book. And then I had to wait a little longer until I had kind of formulated, if I'm going to write this book, let's make sure it's high value. So the IF45, which is part of my book, is what came out of that viral TEDx. Literally, I had to create a program instantly. And so I just started to fine tune this program. It was like, what works? What doesn't work? you know, do we want it for men and women? I mean, it was initially it was for men and women, and then it got more, you know, kind of aligned with just for women.

Wow, it's inspiring.

Yeah.

What has been the best part of this, you know, Todd going viral and the biggest challenge?

Oh gosh, the best, I think just the realization that leaving clinical medicine six years ago was the right decision. Because I kept saying I was tired of writing prescriptions and I wanted to be able to help more people. So, I think it provided the validation that that was the right decision, because I think my husband thought I had a hobby up until that point. He kept saying, Is this a hobby or are you really, you really want to build a business? So I would say the best thing that happened was it made me realize that I was on the right path. Like really, the universe had validated that you are on the right path is what you're supposed to be doing. I think the greatest challenge is finding balance. I mean, balance is elusive and having a family and especially now I'm on the tail end of kids, like, I will be an empty nester in four years. And I'm like, oh my gosh, my kids are, it's like every single day is important. And so the realization that my greatest priority ultimately are my kids and my family. And so that is the challenge of creating a business, nurturing a business, growing a business, and the realization that time is fleeting with my kids. And so it's that constant, like my husband is great in terms of allowing me the ability to be able to do a lot of travel. He travels too. But I think that's my greatest challenge, is finding balance. I don't want to look back and say that I missed out on my kids. This last four years with one and two with the other before they go off to college. And so for me, I think, what I've started doing is really leaning into traveling with them.

That's cool.

And so this past summer we had a very big trip, which was a lot of fun. My son's been learning German, my youngest has been learning German. And so we took a bucket list trip, which was amazing. Wow. And so teenagers, when they're stuck with their parents for two weeks, it's a lot of bonding. And so they let their guard down. And then they're really open to have those like deep conversations. Like I'm sitting at dinner going, I can't believe my kids are telling me this. Wow. But wanting them to know we value this time that we spend together, they definitely have benefited from all the success that's come down the pike.

That's amazing. You speak other languages?

I used to speak some French. If you don't use it, you lose it. Which is unfortunate. And so I always say, had I known I was going to end up in healthcare, I would have learned Spanish. That would have been far more valuable. I didn't have a lot of French speaking patients. But thankfully they had language lines, so there was like hundreds of people that could interpret. That's cool.

Being in Washington, D.C. Wow. Inspiring stuff. Well, there's a lot of things about fasting that I want people to know about, but you've got a lot of the answers in the book, Intermittent Fasting Transformation, the 45-day program for women to lose stubborn weight, improve hormonal health, and slow aging, which are all things that are important for a lot of people. So make sure you guys get a copy of this book. You got a lot of women that watch and listen, so make sure you get a copy for yourself or give it to a lady friend of yours as well. And they can get it at your site, they can get it online, but what's the main website to send people to and the main social media for you?

Yeah, I would say my website, so it's www.cynthiathurlow.com and you can get links to Barnes & Noble, Amazon, etc. I am most active on Instagram. So it's CynthiaThurlo. I made the mistake when that talk went viral, Louis, that I had a business name. And so by the time I changed everything over, it was nearly impossible to get my name together. So on different platforms, it's a little different variation. If you follow me on Twitter, I'm a little snarky. I'll just forewarn everybody.

You're snarky in terms of health topics.

And things like that. I'm a little bit, I mean, I.

Grew up in New Jersey.

You get a little dig it in there. But I'm respectful. I mean, I'm never mean, I'm never cruel, but sometimes I can be a little snarky.

You're like Mike, Metabolic Mike, you kind of like his approach, you know?

Although I stay away from the pandemic just because as a licensed healthcare provider, you don't wanna poke that stick.

That's a whole 'nother conversation we could have, but amazing. Well, I wanna ask you a couple final questions, Cynthia. this one's called the Three Truths. So imagine it's your last day on Earth many years away. You get to live as long as you want to live and you get to accomplish and experience everything you want to live with friends, family, career. But for whatever reason, you got to take all of your work with you. So we don't have access to this book or this conversation or anything you create. It's gone for whatever reason. But you have three lessons to share with the world, three things you know to be true from all your experiences. What would be those three truths for you?

Oh, gosh, I would say be kind. I think that the world can be a challenging place and kindness is totally underrated. I would say adversity leads to opportunity. I think that's really important that people shouldn't shy away from challenging times. They should lean into them. And of course, it would be remiss if I didn't say eat less often.

So many benefits. Yeah, eat less often. I want to acknowledge you, Cynthia, for leaning into the assignment that life has given you. You were trying some of these things. You got sick, you're in the hospital, then you did the talk and the talk created a new platform for you and you said you're gonna lean into it and not shy away from it. I think a lot of people are suffering. Obesity is bigger than ever. health problems are bigger than ever. And I think people are afraid to feel the adversity like you talked about, which is like limiting the foods they want or having less food or restricting the time. And so for you to be leading the way with having experience of it working and going through health challenges yourself and being a, you know, ER nurse to also teach from that standpoint of what you've seen experience. adds a lot of value to the world. So I really appreciate acknowledging you for showing up, for creating this and for diving into the information so we can receive it. So thank you for that. I want to make sure again, people get the book, check it out. We'll have it all linked up for you guys. Make sure you check this out. How else can we be of service for you today? Anything else we can do to support you?

Yeah, no, thank you. I would say, you know, check out the podcast. I have a wonderful podcast called Everyday Wellness that really proud of. I feel like it's really been, you know, my life's work is now to help make information accessible so that people can take action. That's always the goal, is to make sure that people take action. And make, you know, there's lots of podcasts that are out there, but this one is specifically comes from a very heart-centered place.

It's beautiful.

Yeah.

I love it. check out the podcast, the website, the book, everything. Final question for you. What is your definition of greatness?

I think on a lot of levels, greatness comes from within. It's really your own journey into determining what makes sense of your gifts. All of us are given gifts, and it's what we choose to do with them. So, you know, from my perspective, greatness is really leaning into the gifts that you were given, even if they aren't entirely abundantly clear to you at the time that you go through them. I feel like on a lot of levels, you know, I started as pre-law, got into law school, didn't go, became a nurse, became an NP. Like all of those things didn't make sense to me until I got to a point after being so sick that I was like, oh, this all now makes sense. Right, right. So, like, really leaning into what makes you special and unique. Each one of us have gifts that we should lean into. Absolutely.

I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you, if no one has told you lately that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. Now it's time to go out there.

And do something great.

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