Trauma Specialist: Overcome the Cycle of Your Shame by Healing Trauma & Learning to Love Yourself!

Trauma'S negative energy that you carry the more you release it the more you you become but there is a way to release it i have a very very special guest today maryland psychiatrist therapist speaker and trauma specialist and author of.

A newly released memoir to be loved.

Frank anderson doctor frank anderson good to see ya like at thirty two is when my life fell apart i was just too disconnected like wow frank you were so far from you when we make decisions from parts of us that are trying to protect us or please others or please others and a lot of that is fear of loss of connection in here our truth our authenticity is silently screaming inside what would you.

Say is the number one emotion that blocks us from peace harmony and ultimate.

Happiness shame i think it's shame shame is so toxic and shame is usually the result of relational trauma what happens.

If we sweep it under the rug we run away from it what happens to everyone if we do that i'll.

Tell you what happened to me we'll start there.

The kia sportage turbo hybrid has a bold design a spacious interior with two hundred and thirty two horsepower and a twelve point three inch panoramic display to keep the adventure going and fit with the way you live and with siriusxm every drive comes alive bringing you closer to the music the sports talk and podcasts that you love right in your vehicle or on the siriusxm app every siriusxm equipped kia sportage turbo hybrid includes a three month trial so the experience begins the moment you drive learn more at kia dot com sportage hybrid kia movement that inspires this message is brought to you by apple card apple card members can earn unlimited daily cash back on everyday purchases wherever they shop this means you could be earning daily cash on just about anything like a slice of pizza from your local pizza place or a latte from the corner coffee shop apply for apple card in the wallet app to see your credit limit offer in minutes subject to credit approval apple card issued by goldman sachs bank usa salt lake city branch terms and more at applecard dot com the school of greatness is sponsored by capital one nowadays most people subscribe to everything music tv even dog food and it rocks until you have to manage it all which is where capital one comes in capital one credit card holders can easily track block or cancel reoccurring charges right from the capital one mobile app at no additional cost you can with one sign in you can manage all your subscriptions all in one place learn more at capital one dot com subscriptions terms and conditions apply welcome back.

Everyone in the school of greatness we have the inspiring frank anderson in the house who is a harvard trained psychiatrist a renowned trauma expert and an expert on ifs and cptsd among many other things around how to heal trauma and i'm so excited that you're here i saw this stat online that said seventy percent of adults in the us have experienced some type of traumatic event at least once in their life that's right that is a majority of the us population and i'm assuming that's similar around the world and i'm curious how do we to start it off a big question how do we really face the things we've been running away from our entire lives so that we can integrate these traumatic moments memories or events in our life that have caused us to run away from them or chase things to fill an empty hole or traumatic experience in our life how do we really start to turn around and face these moments that are so crippling and create so much fear and stress within us yeah how does that process even.

Begin it typically begins for people when their life falls apart yes sorry to.

Say that when there's a massive breakdown.

Right people do not come to therapy because they're like i have unresolved childhood trauma nobody goes it's because i'm drinking too much my wife is you know divorcing me i've had an affair i'm hitting my kids like people start real like they kind of hit their bottom to say okay it's time to do something different right so that's the way most people get into this i'm trying to bring people in in a different way like hey we all have some form of trauma and you know the word trauma is activating for people right so i don't have trauma like in the general public i don't have trauma you know not me i'm not weak that's not me so there's this avoidance of the word there's an avoidance of dealing with the pain move forward you know why go back what's the point so i'm trying to teach people educate people like maybe you can do a little preventative medicine here like what if we looked at this before it became a disaster in your life that's powerful.

And i can relate to that because i don't know it was about eleven years ago i finally started getting into opening up and facing the parts of me that were causing shame resentment anger fear stress overwhelming breakdown in my life and it was a storm of multiple events from a breakdown in an intimate relationship business relationship and then me taking it out on the basketball court with my anger on others who were just like random bystanders to where a friend was like hey i don't like the way you're showing up and it allowed me to look in the mirror and say man all these breakdowns the common denominator is me right you know but i didn't want to acknowledge it i wanted to blame everyone else i wanted to say they don't understand me they don't get me they're taking advantage of me they're abusing me that's right they're whatever it might be it's pointing the blame at others as opposed to looking within and when i had these different events that caused me multiple breakdowns and someone confronting me that i cared about right i was like oh maybe i should take a look at myself yes and that started the journey over the last eleven years of healing that's right and healing is a journey it's not like it was overnight and i was like i'm healed and i'm better that's right but allowed me to start diving into these different therapeutic experiences that have given me harmony and peace and wholeness back yeah and i and i want and i know this has been your mission for a long time to help help people heal from traumas and one of the things is i know a lot of people that say i had great childhoods my parents were great beautiful loving families and relationships and maybe they didn't have big t traumas but they had little t traumas that caused them to be avoidant resentful get into situations where they allow their boundaries to be crossed over and over again they become doormats things like that so what is the difference between big t trauma little t trauma and should we be thinking about addressing both of them one hundred.

Percent it's a great move it's a great shift that's happening in culture and society and you know friends of ours mutual friend nicole lapera is a perfect person that's like hey maybe when you're ignored hey maybe when you're yelled at that can have an impact too right so she's a perfect person that's bringing that awareness for people who know about the ace studies the adverse childhood experiences study big study here in california right and they looked at kids that were growing up in alcoholic families kids that had divorces there was physical or verbal abuse in there and all of the problems that these kids had growing up and all the cost bigger deal to the medical community like oh that's when everybody started looking so how many things.

Are what is that what is that.

Called ace the ace study adverse childhood.

Experiences how many i guess points are there in that or like oh i.

Don'T remember there's like they have a questionnaire and there's a rating scale i think they're nine points but i'm not.

Like ninety if you had like your parents were divorced if you had sexual abuse if you were yelled at if.

You were or whatever witnessed something that was witnessed something traumatic yeah that's another.

Thing i remember someone reading this off to me and i was like i think i've experienced every one of those things right and i was like does that just mean i'm messed up for.

Life no if everybody took the scale everybody would have a lot of them this is the thing that this is what i was saying earlier people get weirded out by the word trauma i'm using louis overwhelming life experience yes it's more palatable for people i'm like have you ever had an overwhelming life experience well yeah like of course bullied on the playground or any shamed at so and so or failing in school or not making the football team whatever it is so people relate to that word overwhelming life experience differently than some people are adverse to the word trauma because i'm not weak right they're triggered by trauma exactly that's exactly right so i'm trying to normalize that in the ways that i can and say look these things have an effect on us and we naturally have ways to try to protect ourselves they might not be the most effective but give yourselves a break for the ways you're trying to protect yourself or push the bad stuff away i do this like cavemen we're wired like in the day touch the fire the fire hurts stay away from the fire you know it's like that so we're just automatically programmed to stay away from pain so bringing people to the pain they're like why would i do that right so it is counterintuitive i was talking to somebody the other day it's like it's like we do the u turn go inside and you're going against the current because the current is stay away push it away get rid of it move forward sweep it under the rug yeah and that's what our.

Natural instinct is what happens if we resist looking at the overwhelming life experiences or traumas in our life and we sweep it under the rug we run away from it what happens to everyone if we do that i'll tell you.

What happened to me we'll start there like cause i was in therapy as you know starting at six years old.

Your parents forced you to do this.

Right as a kid you don't you know the book opens like you're not going to school today frankie i was like why we're going to a hospital for what i'm not sick you know and i went downtown for psych testing because i got caught in my cousin's basement playing with her barbie playhouse this was back in the day when being gay was a total disorder right so my parents well intended by the way oh we have to make frankie normal they sent me to therapy for six years as a kid because i got caught playing i thought the barbie playhouse was cool the toilet the little furniture i was like a kid i didn't know i wasn't like exploring i was exploring and at the time it was a problem so i was in therapy for a long time learned how to do boy things how to play with boy toys how to act like a boy like do baseball i did all this kind of stuff and so i learned i was taught to suppress right i was taught to suppress what i ended up doing was marrying a woman which is what you're supposed to do as a man right and so it was a kind of a mess like at thirty two is when my life fell apart like you talked about yours.

Right when you got married was there something inside of you when you're like walking down the aisle or i guess you're not walking down but when you're about to get married is there something inside of you that's saying like i don't think this feels right or were you like i'm excited and this is going to be my future forever i.

Would like to so here's what it was like actually for me was like this is what you're supposed to be this is what you're supposed to do i was doing the right thing i didn't even know what love was i was i never felt in love in my life i didn't even know that i was missing like i didn't know i was missing something i was like this is what everybody else is doing we were friends yeah yeah yeah i really liked her as a friend but i didn't even understand what love was in that way so i just did the right thing i did what everybody wanted me to do and everybody seemed happy and i liked her you know what i mean you got along i got along and you know here's the thing honestly maybe not every gay guy could do this i could have sex with a woman it felt pleasurable like it was physically pleasurable i had an orgasm like i could do that so there wasn't even that that was like frank this is a problem here do you know what i mean everybody's got their orientation on a spectrum right so i wasn't like walk and receiving her at the end of the aisle being like this is a problem stop this i was just too disconnected i i feel sad about that now like wow frank you were so far from you look what you did you know look what you were able to do so disconnected you know so that's what is.

What happens in someone's life when they make decisions out of disconnection to please parents society certain rules or standards versus being fully and wholly who they are and meant to be what happens yeah.

The difference it's a great question it's a great question because the difference when we make decisions from parts of us that are trying to protect us or please others or please others and a lot of that is fear of loss of connection i'm going to do this because this is what i can see this is what you want from me and if i give you what you want from me then i won't lose you a lot of it is right a lot of it is fear of.

Loss but you lose yourself you lose.

Yourself or parts of yourself you've never had yourself see this is what happens with kids when parents are yelling or screaming or drunk or whatever it is ignoring you you as a child have to choose them over you to survive to survive you have to choose them over you right so you learn you're the last one that's important yeah okay you're relating to that on some level.

I think a lot of people relate.

To that yeah we do that's what happens so we're kind of programmed that way and so we make these decisions in a disconnected way most of us do and then it falls apart because this in here our truth our authenticity is screaming silently screaming inside because we're not living an authentic life how do.

You you know if someone's watching or listening and saying you know i love my parents and i love my family and you know the family that i grew up with obviously everyone's a little dysfunctional yes but they don't support my decision of yeah whatever of me choosing to love this person they don't support my decision of pursuing a career that i love they don't it's against their christian religion or something religion for me to want to fully step into who i believe i'm supposed to be right whether i'm right or wrong about it but it's what i fully believe feels right to me that's right how do you have the courage to be who you want to be without disappointing letting down and disconnecting with your parents family.

And community it just happened to me recently with my mom i'll tell you about this a little bit later in our discussion together we have a hard time with the and of things we have a really hard time with an and like can i be myself and also love you can i be myself and tolerate your feelings of disappointment okay so we kids don't do and because they don't have the psychological capacity or.

The emotional regulation or yeah you can't.

Do it so adults have a really hard time doing that so do parents.

You know they never learned how to.

Do it they never learned how to do it so this and is really complicated it's of kind of black or.

White you either live by the standards or the rules or the code that i live by that's exactly right or i don't know how to be with.

You right and i have to i have to truly like love respect myself enough to choose me over disappointing you that is not easy to do i'll tell you if i'll tell you a story recently so my mom there's a lot in there about both my parents you don't you know my dad was physically and verbally abusive to me my mom was kind of the passive bystander right you need that combination in order for it to happen and she won't read the book she's like i can't read this book too traumatizing her it's too traumatizing you're defaming the family my father passed away and you know you're destroying his so i said to her this was last week when i was in chicago filming something i said mom is it possible for you to love him and acknowledge that i was hurt growing up i said if you can't that's okay okay i can now i actually love my father and he really hurt me for things that were more about him than they were about me and what i said louis was i mean this is raw like right like do we ever stop healing no like this was last week i'm like mom i chose you my whole childhood because i needed to when i came out at thirty two that was the first time i chose myself over you wow and i'm doing it again i'm sorry i'm going to tell my story this is my truth and if i lose you over that i'm going to take that risk i hope i don't because i love you i could love you and know what happens and i hope you can too and it was a big moment for us and she rose to the occasion i tell you she was eighty four years old god love her she's like i love you yes you were hurt and i'm sorry i.

Didn'T protect you wow oh my gosh.

I swear to god i such a gift that's healing it was hugely healing it was hugely healing for me it's like i didn't ever expected that i had a moment with my dad at the end of his life which was hugely healing and then i had this like last week with her and i was like right before the book comes out and she's like i'm going to read the book okay mom so she was able to because of my my capacity to show up helped her capacity.

To join me yeah and it sounds like i'm assuming you didn't come from a defensive upset way of communicating you came from a courageous loving appreciation i care about i'm grateful for these things and an understanding of someone who is my heroes my parents essentially definitely i can love them and be frustrated and hurt by the things that they didn't know what they were doing also they didn't have the tools or the skill sets to be able to teach because you were able to have empathy and step into their shoes from their generation what they knew and what they lacked.

Knowing as well that was part of the healing journey for me was losing my anger i carried anger for my dad for so many years anger anger hated him hated him and i got to the point of like real true acceptance like when you release the energy trauma's like negative energy that you carry it's a negative interaction and you carry the negative energy as a result of that the more you release it the more you you become right the more you release energy that's not yours the more you you become it enabled me to kind of like have compassion for him like that was you yes that was your struggle it wasn't about me you know i was affected by it and i was able to kind of really accept him for who he is as opposed to hold on to the hate because the hate was eaten away at me not so much him he wasn't caring it i mean he was affected by it for sure right so to have that healing allows you to hold the other person for who they are more with all the parts of them all the parts of them you.

May not like certain parts and may need to create boundaries and communicate this doesn't work for me mom and dad that's right and so i'm going to create a boundary here i'm not going to show up to these types of functions or when you scream or get loud i'm going to remove myself from the situation or whatever it might be that's right you got to step up for you yeah but you can still love the other parts of them that's.

Right one hundred percent man this is.

Fascinating you know one of the things that you've been a part of for i guess thirty years is the body keeps the score research yeah and you were talking about energy trauma being this energy that's stored inside of us yes that's right why does the body keep the score what does that mean and how do we actually start to release trauma so that the energy gets out of our body and we can become more whole the school of greatness is.

Brought to you in partnership with airbnb the holidays are such a special time to travel and gather with loved ones think about some of your best trips those cozy spaces thoughtful touches and the feeling of being right at home wherever you are now imagine getting to provide that same experience for someone else because when you travel your place is just sitting empty while you're away hosting on airbnb can be a no brainer and in a season where new experiences creating lasting memories it's a unique way to help others make their own and martha and i both travel a lot especially with her family in mexico and mine all over the usa so we know what it's like to be on the go during the holidays and from our experience hosting has always been easy and straightforward and whether you're traveling often or just once in a while it can be a simple way to earn a little extra while you're away your home might be worth more than you think find out how much at airbnb dot com host the holidays are here and.

With them comes all the cheer and.

The spending and i think we've all felt the pressure of finding the perfect.

Gift for the perfect price and those prices are sure giving us a run.

For our money you know how it.

Goes one gift turns into ten you're trying to stay on budget and before you know it you've spent half a.

Day scrolling comparing prices and wondering if you should have just gotten everyone gift cards it can feel a little stressful trying to make it all feel special without breaking the bank but luckily you can get the holiday savings at metro with the most wonderful deal of the season get one line of five g for only twenty five dollars a month and a five year price guarantee on.

Talk text and data the best part.

Is that you can keep the phone.

You love and keep your number and no activation fees and that's what i'm.

Talking about a deal that actually lasts five years locked in that's peace of mind right there at metro get that more for your money feeling visit your local store today twenty five dollars a month with autopay thirty dollars your first month guarantee exclusions apply see site for details cold mornings holiday plans this is.

When you need your wardrobe to just.

Work stuff that looks sharp feels good and you'll actually reach for quints makes gifting easy when everything's worth keeping for yourself by partnering directly with trusted factories that maintain high standards for craftsmanship and and ethical practices quint cuts out the middlemen and markups that means premium quality at half the cost of other high end brands so you can give luxury pieces without the luxury price tag and it goes beyond their clothes quint also has incredible home and bedding options to make your home cozy this season martha and i have the european linen duvet cover set from quince and let me tell you the duvet set is so soft and high quality we highly recommend get your wardrobe sorted and your gift list handled with quince don't wait go to quint dot com lewis for free shipping on your order and three hundred and sixty five day returns now available in canada too that's q u i n c e dot com slash l e w i s free shipping and three hundred sixty five day returns quince.

Dot com lewis that's one of my that's probably separate from bringing trauma healing to the world which is the big mess the big purpose that's not my purpose that's somebody else's purpose okay i'm i'm just a a messenger for that so there's the big purpose of bringing trauma healing to the world my purpose is showing people that healing is possible like you don't have to carry stuff that isn't yours and doesn't belong to you wow you don't and that's so some therapies do that and some therapies don't okay so when you acknowledge okay i'm carrying stuff that isn't mine there is a process you know and it was bessel's book the body keeps the score is not coincidental that it's been on the new york times bestseller list more than any other book because people resonate with it during the pandemic people were sitting home making bread and reading bessel's book let me tell you you know so really and because it's resonating with people the message is real the way i think about it is trauma is held in the body through thoughts feelings physical sensations so the thoughts like i'm worthless i'm no good i'm a piece of crap like we internalize the view of somebody else if you're yelled at you worthless piece of crap you you internalize that i'm a worthless piece of crap so we internalize thoughts emotions you know trauma is overwhelming emotions and our bodies the first recipient of it our body holds that stuff so the body keeps the score such a great title for bessel because the body does keep the score but it's in all these different dimensions any sensory modality you can hear something you could see it you can feel it you can smell it you know our body takes it in sensory and it could trigger you and it holds well we hold it we hold it right and we hold it and then we develop all these protections to keep it away and what i like to teach in this crossover way is you can release it also there is a way to release it.

How do you release it of feelings thoughts and emotions that have been stored in your body for decades how do we let those things go that have been so conditioned to as a familiar habit pattern that has become who we are almost we've owned the identity one hundred percent how do we change decades of an identity and release yeah i.

Have what i call now you know there's models of psychotherapy that i've kind of integrated and now in this new world i'm like the four t's to trauma healing okay so i have the four t's to trauma healing and i'll explain them to you right now first and we talked about the first one thank your trauma responses right the protective responses the protective responses the drinking the eating the yelling at your kids the suicidality the depression thank you the anxiety thank you like think about suicide for a minute suicide doesn't suicidal part doesn't want to die they want to stop.

The pain yes they want to get rid of the pain i'm the last.

Responder they say if it gets bad enough i can protect us by stopping the pain wow okay so thank your thank your protective responses thank your trauma responses thank you for trying to help.

Do those be called symptoms or just.

Responses totally if you're in the mental health field you call them symptoms got it you know if you're in the coaching world or whatever you call them responses right everybody calls them but it's the same thing okay all the diagnoses our trauma responses really so thank them acknowledge them and thank them and you know what they say how do we thank that internally it's all this is like meditation if someone has a thought.

If someone has a thought of like i want to kill myself today i'm a worthless piece of crap no one loves me look at all these evidence of how i've been abused and neglected and taken advantage of my entire life no one will care if i die what's the process how do i thank.

Tell me more it's a curiosity tell me more i know you're doing this for a reason and i know it's helpful i want to learn more it's this active listening when i say thank your trauma responses internal internal listening yeah and it can be like close your eyes and go inside which people hate to do by the way like everybody's on their phones you know but you can write you can sit with yourself for five minutes right it's go inside and it's weird people like i'll do this with trauma survivors people i work with go inside okay they pop out with it like that was two seconds let's do four you know and get people if you just stop there's so much about stopping and listening which is scary for people stopping and listening they're like i just feel nauseous like okay let's be with the nausea because parts can show up in any physical sensation and i'm just hearing you loser all right let's just be with i hear let's just be with you're a loser let's just get curious about it and how long has it been doing this and how is it trying to help it says dad called me a loser if i call myself a loser then i can beat him to the punch oh okay let it know you get that so people bright people start going wow that's what they do they're like wow so this thing that i've hated is actually helping trying to help it's.

Trying to help it's a false sense.

Of helping right yeah they did but.

It'S doing the best it can do.

Yes exactly so that's the first piece thank your trauma responses and appreciate them second is trust that you have what you need inside to heal you don't need to go to you don't need gurus you don't need other people to tell you what's right for you but we've learned to not listen to our gut we've learned to not listen to our authentic self so i want to bring people back to trusting that that little voice inside that's like not i hate you you're no good those are the protectors the i knew this relationship wasn't right i knew there was something wrong here it's like learning how to differentiate listening to your gut listening to your intuition reclaiming that relationship with your wisdom right you can feel the difference like or you're a jerk feels different energy than this isn't right but you.

Know as a six eight ten year old how do you have wisdom that you can tap into they do those.

Kids have wisdom raising my kids like when my husband would lose it for whatever reason i'm not saying i'm not blaming him because i certainly have lost it too but i'm just when he loses it they look at me like that's crazy kids know normal behavior they do so they have that wisdom too the ifs model believes we're born with it we're born with that wisdom and we learn not to listen because of.

Life gotcha right because of programming your rules or society or shut up shut.

Down disconnect disconnect so we all have it let's reconnect with it it's the second step trust that you have in you then there's this transform this is where the healing comes in louis the transform what doesn't serve you and doesn't belong to you there are three steps to this this is where the real healing of trauma comes in and a lot of this is rooted in the models of psychotherapy that i've trained in and neuroscience knowledge okay memory reconsolidation is a type of neuroscience that rewires our neural networks what are those three steps you need to witness the experience or share the story and it's not just the words it's the you know the part that holds the trauma needs to share what it's holding with internally with me or with my therapist or with my partner or with a friend you.

Need to speak it out and it's.

Not just the story it's the thoughts the feelings and the physical sensations i was terrified i thought i was gonna die like so the sharing it was.

Humiliating i had shame i had insecurity.

Sharing it is the first step because the part holds it all by itself the body you mean the part that holds the trauma once it shares it it releases oh i'm not the only one holding this or i don't have to be the only one that holds it so the first piece is share the whole experience not relive it be with it it's a big difference because we don't want people to relive their.

Trauma not to re traumatize themselves no.

That'S right it's not about re traumatizing.

It'S say it again not be with.

It it's be with it not in it so we don't want people to relive it we want them to share the experience with someone you know with a loved one with a therapist so and then this happened and then this happened and it felt like this and my body felt gross or i was all tensed up anything else anything else so once the experience is shared then.

We want that's step one that's step.

One of transform okay second is we want a corrective experience what does that look like self knowledge tells us we want to disconfirm the trauma so i'm loved i'm seen i'm acknowledged i'm important whatever this trauma is we want a.

Corrective experience if someone watching or listening is thinking that sounds great frank but i don't have i can't find evidence that i'm loved i can't find evidence that i'm worthy that i'm you know.

But here's thought of here's this considered when the part says i'm no good i'm unworthy i'm not lovable either the self says i love you like i can see that little boy that was six years old i'm like i love him so the corrective experience can happen internally my adult now can say you should have never gone through that that.

Was horrible but if you've never learned how to love yourself how do you tap into that love that's the trust.

We all have it we all have it got it now it also can come from somebody else it can come from you to me like frank i've known you for ten years i love you you are you know and you're really talking to the wounded part yes you're not talking to me you're talking to the wounded part so it can be somebody you know can be trauma heals in connection yes because trauma is a violation of a relationship say that again trauma is a violation of a.

Relationship is it relationship with others or.

With self both both we disconnect from ourself to survive and other people we disconnect from to protect ourselves okay wow okay so this corrective experience is a relational repair it's a relational repair even.

If the person's not there even if.

The person's not there it can happen with somebody else that's what therapy yes ideally it's supposed to be a therapist saying you know or ideally it's the self like i'm here now i'm an adult i heard what happened you shared it i love you i care about you and the part receives that yes or from i've had corrective experiences with my kids yeah when they've seen me in a way that i've never been seen before like we have children to grow ourselves also right so you get that corrective experience so once you've shared it once you've had some form of corrective experience and you can feel those moments they're like you've had a couple of them here i've felt it from you when you like your body relaxed you go like oh man when something lands that's a corrective experience it hits differently and it feels different right so we have when that part that was traumatized shares its experience then it has a corrective experience then it's like i don't need to carry this anymore i got what i needed and somebody else knows it so that's where release is.

Possible wow is that step three three.

Step three in the transform then release is possible and i say to people like let the part let it go in any way it wants to and sometimes people's bodies literally shake sometimes they're like oh my it's just floating up into the sky it's just like the energy it's energy release man i mean.

For me this is resonated with me because i feel like i've had a few of those energy releases in big ways over the last ten eleven years that's right the first time when i opened up about being sexually abused when i was a child by a man that i didn't know and held onto it for twenty five years without anyone knowing and i let it go it was like this release right a few years ago three and a half years ago i was going through a challenging breakup yeah and i remember and i was doing therapy for i don't know six months with it intensive like five six hours on a weekend like you know experiential just like diving into all the parts of me that were blocking my ability to love self yes and create boundaries that's right that's right and i kind of had this heart pain for years a few years i was coming and going that's right yeah in this relationship kind of a tension in a ball feeling of pain in my chest yeah sometimes palpitations sometimes it wasn't there but i remember feeling it in this one conversation with my therapist yeah and something all of a sudden clicked in my body that's right it's like something and it felt like a pop and it like released throughout my body one hundred percent was the weirdest sensation that's right and i haven't felt that pain that's right since that moment of release of corrective experience and sharing it and witnessing it and it's so freeing to let go of trauma it's amazing.

Freeing isn't it yeah like because when and i get chilled like as you say that i could feel it from you and i'm feeling it for myself i get chills throughout my body because there's nothing like that's how you become you again you don't change you're not become somebody else when you release you reclaim yourself you reclaim yourself in this amazing way you do it's true and i love that you've had those moments like serendipitously because of the work you're doing i'm saying there's a method here yes if you do and i'm always watching those three i'm making sure those three are happening even if we're in a conversation so it can happen i want the world to know this can happen for you too you don't have to do thirty three years of therapy like i did like i'm a therapy lifer right it can happen like this is the method these are the steps that transformation you feel it it's real and you don't carry it anymore you don't carry it anymore you're like walking it's like people who have taken antidepressants when they kick in they're like i'm different i'm not depressed anymore it's kind of like that when you release that trauma you're like i'm not in the world the same way anymore right so that happens those are those three steps that need to happen for healing to occur right the last of my four t's is now take back your power this is take back your power become you you're more you every time you release something and this is something i love to talk about which was totally new for me louis around the death of my dad and the healing that i did with him i told you earlier about my mom and the like this healing moment i had with her when she acknowledged what happened and she didn't protect me towards the end of my dad's life he said something to me and i'm not gonna say what it is because it's like the big it's like the moment in the book where it's like oh my god it was an incredible moment what a gift for me to have this exchange with him it was the first time i felt love from him wow and i felt love for him holy cow it was incredible first time and this was.

Two years ago okay not everyone gets this moment though no i was such.

A gift i was like i think that's why i'm here and i think that's why i've went through this is because many people don't get that you can still release without having the relational correction with the person yes you can you don't have to do it with the person i happen to be lucky enough to do it with him to have that and i felt love for him even after all that he had done to me i felt love and it was amazing talk about freeing to feel love for someone who was brutal to you it's like it was the most freeing thing i ever felt it's like that didn't even affect me because i can love someone who harmed me is so powerful powerful it was like a drug to me because i was so beyond it that even what you did doesn't affect me anymore because i can love you despite of that is.

There ever power in not loving someone who hurt you or abused you as opposed to saying well they sexually abused me and they manipulated me and they gaslighted me for decades of my life and they really psychologically messed with me for twenty thirty years i'm just going to love them accept them for who they are and just you know not stand up for myself like is there.

Here'S the thing i love that you're asking that question because it's so controversial and i know you had somebody on recently who has a different view and that i'm going to be meeting with her soon but we're going to have we're going to do an event together yes okay because doctor rahmani she just has a different view about this and i love that we're going to have a conversation about it because differences are really important and useful yes okay we don't need to we don't need to stay in the us and them of things because we'll never heal that way we will never it's the and it's the and one hundred percent so i think there are people that don't want to and they don't have to it's not a requirement this piece that i'm talking about is loving and it's not like oh no big deal it's when you've truly healed you're not carrying it anymore okay so it feels different and forgiveness if i use the f word forgiveness because people get really activated by that word is a choice and the thing that people don't understand and i didn't get it until a couple years ago the forgiveness was me releasing what i was caring about my father it's.

Not forgiving his behavior no it's not.

Condoning it was i'm not carrying the stuff about him anymore forgiveness was more about me than it was about him wow people still have a choice to do it you know oprah talks about this forgiveness and tyler perry talks about this too with all the trauma that he's gone through so if you choose to it's more for you and if you don't want to you don't have to some people are like it was too brutal it was too painful i'm choosing not to forgive and i'm like that's okay it's whatever works for you i was lucky to have this experience that i never thought i would have to be able to love someone i never thought i would love somebody who harmed me and the thing that was even a weirder bonus was i started forgiving myself for all that i had done to my kids to my husband to myself so my loving him still knowing what he did not forgetting that allowed me to love myself differently interesting because who hasn't harmed or been harmed right this is the us and them piece that i have a mission to kind of get rid of i know that's a big mission i hear voices let me say that i hear voices a lot it's like love compassion love connection unity love connection unity bring trauma healing to the world i'm like shut up it was like stop you know unity kept coming up and i didn't want unity to come up i was like oh that's a hard one the divide of us and them and the message was like unity unity so this.

Was the divide is safer right it's.

So much easier wouldn't you rather be on one side and blame somebody else of the other so much easier wow but now i'm free because i've forgiven myself for staying too long in relationships right guilty of that right but but so if you choose to forgive you release what you're caring about the other person but it gives you an opportunity to kind of release what you're caring.

About yourself are you ready to finally hit your target nutrient levels every day meet groons the daily snack pack of gummies isn't just a multivitamin it's not just a green gummy and it's not just a prebiotic it's all of that rolled into one and then some at a fraction of the price and they taste great here's what makes them stand out while most multivitamins only cover seven to nine vitamins groons bring together over twenty vitamins and minerals plus more than sixty nutrient dense whole food ingredients and those ingredients are known to support things like gut health energy immunity recovery cognition and even beauty because it's in gummy form your body has an easier time absorbing it also we have packs in our studio and they've been a game changer for everyone in the studio we've run out so quickly no powders no handfuls of pills just a pack of tasty gummies and a fueling my body with the nutrients it needs use code greatness at grunds co to save up to fifty two percent off your first order that's code greatness at gruns co for up to fifty two percent off this show is sponsored by betterhelp you know the holidays can feel a lot like balancing family expectations travel work and trying to make everything perfect it's easy to forget to take care of yourself.

In the middle of it all i've.

Been there and what i've learned is that when you don't make space to slow down it's hard to actually enjoy the moments that matter most that's why betterhelp is encouraging you to rewrite your traditions this season by making time for you incorporating therapy into your routine can help you pause reflect stay grounded during what can be joyful but sometimes hectic or even lonely time of the year the holidays look different for everyone maybe it's baking your great aunt's sweet potato pie or maybe it's starting something new like a quiet night with friends therapy can be one of those new traditions too better help matches you with a licensed therapist based on your goals and preferences and if it's not the right fit you can switch anytime this december start a new tradition by taking care of you our listeners get ten percent off at betterhelp dot com louis that's better h e l p dot com louis.

I saw this quote of yours yes it said trauma blocks love love heals trauma yeah trauma activates an internal cascade of reactions that blocks love connection and creativity and in turn love has the power to transcend trauma heal our pain and reconnect us to our self capital s our source and to each other how can we is it possible for us to truly love ourselves and others if we're holding on to traumas.

I'M going to say we're not going to use all or nothing and it's all degrees okay i am so much further along in this process than i was twenty years ago was i able to do forty percent of that twenty years ago probably can i do eighty five ninety percent now yeah am i one hundred percent probably not ever right so yeah that statement like when i hear that i was like oh my god that's so powerful like thank you for sharing it with me i kind of feel like it's channeled information honestly and i've lived it and i've spent my whole career studying it so yes i think that's entirely possible i do believe it i believe it wholeheartedly that's why i'm on this mission i'm on this mission and i'm not the only one on this mission that i'm very clear about you're on this mission there's so many we're coming together in a different way there's all all these people are coming out of the woodwork like the people in the ivory tower are showing up in general public we talked about this you know the influencers are showing up and coming you know these motivational speakers are coming together in this way because i think it's a collective i think it's a collective to do this yes and i think it's i really do think it's possible and i'm not doing it alone tell you that but i'm one of the people and so are you that are doing this yes i think it's totally possible and i think that's what's gonna heal what.

Do you think it takes for someone.

To truly love themselves is releasing the stuff that blocks that that's the the trauma blocks love love heals trauma every time i wrote i wrote transcending trauma my other book during the pandemic and i'd write write write write write go for a run right go for a run i'm like such a runner and i'd hear trauma blocks love love heals trauma trauma blocks love love heals trauma i'm like that is the truth because every time i realize how do you.

Love yourself if you're blocked by trauma how do you get rid of the.

Trauma it's this cycle it's the cycle it's going through the four t's that i talked about it's going through that and each time you release something you've got more capacity in the beginning right each time you release it you expand your ability you expand your ability and it's like this cumulative thing it doesn't happen all at once it's not like a hollywood moment it happen happens cumulatively and early on when you're super blocked if you can find some loving connection because you can help it's not your responsibility to heal me but your loving me helps me heal myself because love is contagious so if you are in a loving environment you can access yours and utilize somebody else's right so just.

As love is contagious so is hate.

One hundred percent anger yes it is.

That'S why you got to really protect your energy and your relationship with people yeah and do your best to shift conversations move away from those conversations and not get caught in that cycle of anger and hate as well that's right.

It'S moments like life happens in moments and so does trauma healing happen in moments it doesn't happen here's something that.

You know i've heard people talk about it's like okay if you've had traumatic experiences and you're a lifelong you know in therapy and psychiatrist like you've been in this work for every daily for thirty plus years or whatever.

How does.

Someone continue to release without reliving and resharing the traumatic experiences so that it affects them so much some people say quit reliving it and resharing it all the time therapy doesn't work if you're always in therapy reliving it and you're not getting release and freedom then it must not be working that's right so how do we communicate it without being stuck in this well i've been in therapy ten years then why are you still stuck and angry and resentful that's.

Right and there's a lot of bad there's a lot of therapies that are not trauma healing therapies i was in i told you eleven eleven years five times a week during my residency that was a lot a big amount of therapy but it was it was the talking telling the story without release interesting okay therapy not release i knew all about it i understood it i was analyzed it yeah i figured it out i was stronger but i was still carrying it in my body interesting yeah so not all therapies have those qualities of release that's why that transform thing i talked about so important now ifs is not the only therapy that does that emdr can do it eye movement desensitization and reprocessing i've heard great things.

About that but i've also i mean what's the difference between ifs and emdr and if you were if someone is experiencing trauma in their life what would.

You recommend first here's the thing so there's sensory motor psychotherapy there's peter levine somatic experiencing there's a lot of different abc you know everybody's got their initials ifs you know emdr they've got their method they've got their method there's probably six or eight trauma methods okay and nobody knows this when you go to therapy you don't know there's trauma methods and those should have a release component like psychoanalytic therapy that i was in didn't have at that point a release component so i processed it without releasing it okay so so you weren't getting.

The full benefit of results i was.

Better in a lot of ways i was able to come out you know i you know they did stuff my life got better but i was still.

Carrying it you were still holding on to the body was still keeping the.

Score the body was still keeping the score one hundred percent yes interesting yeah it was so i want to teach people that there is a way to do this and it's not just telling the story it's not just reliving it over and over again and a lot of people do that right it is there are these certain qualities i started this year called the trauma institute okay and it's an integrative center for bringing all the trauma modalities together integratively bringing trauma healing to the next generation of therapists and of the general public it's a mission for me it's like i don't think one model's the right model everybody needs different things at different times so let's pull this resource together a lot of my friends and colleagues have made these models and i'm like thankful for them to have made them thank you dick schwartz who made ifs thank you pat ogden who made sensory motorcycle therapy thank you gabor mate who makes compassionate inquirer bessel van der kolk who brings neuroscience dan siegel like all of them amazing things like it's time to put it together in an integrative way and that's what i hope for the.

Trauma institute what is the core thesis of ifs and why is that something that you study and teach so frequently.

Yeah it was like i said i was in therapy a long time a lot of different modalities did emdr i did sensory motorcycle therapy ifs was different for me first because i grew up in a big italian family and everything was about the group the family about.

The individual interesting i'm sure a lot of people can relate to that right.

Right and a lot of ethnic groups are like that not only italian about.

The group the culture not the individual.

The individual doesn't matter the group matters the family matters so i grew up there and it was so amazing for ifs to say go inside you have self and you can access that to heal so it was really powerful for me to reclaim me so ifs says we all have self energy we're born with it and it has inherent wisdom we all have parts too all different parts of us how many parts of us do we have it's you know i have a part that likes to run i have a part that likes to travel we have a lot of different parts we have a lot of.

Different thoughts and there's positive parts and.

Kind of wounded parts yeah i love that you didn't say negative parts ooh because everybody's like bad parts you know i worked there's no bad parts dick's book no bad parts right there's no bad parts we look at the positive intention so some parts protect some parts carry pain right i have a part that's a therapist i have a part that you know gets really stressed out and anxious you know so we what.

Are the parts that protect what are they actually doing inside of us well.

They'Re doing these behaviors and symptoms drinking too much over exercising overworking over overworking.

Reactive angry resentful protective yeah there be.

And the only reason they take on those extreme roles is because of something.

Overwhelming is it a sense of control is it a sense of protection what.

Is the control and protection yeah control.

And protection when we say when we do something obsessive or a particular way that we want to make sure it's done this way and it seems controlling yes what is that saying about us.

It'S saying what it tells me about us is that i grew up in a controlling environment in a controlling environment i grew up in a controlling environment and i internalize control as a way to help that's what it says so.

Someone thinking they're being helpful by being.

Controlling the part it's like the part like critic let's talk about critics like who doesn't have an internal critic in some way it's because you were yelled at or criticized and then you're like look how effective that is i was the recipient of that criticism i see how powerful it is and then some part of us says oh i'm gonna use that to control the kid in here who keeps crying because if he shuts up then i won't get yelled at wow do you see that so.

I'Ll suppress my feelings my emotions i'll.

Do it shut up you idiot shut up you jerk if you're quiet we won't get yelled at so we use what's in our environment protectively and if we understand that then it's a different relationship with the critic not hate your critic get rid of it don't be critical anymore like who's ever stopped drinking because you just said and for those of you who are old enough like nancy reagan just say no to drugs like doesn't work it doesn't work you know it's like no it's like oh where did you learn that how is it helping oh okay i get it are you interested in helping in a different way right would you be you want to work together here we can team up and do it differently because these parts don't like the way they do things they were forced to use what was in their environment it's just.

A part of the tools that they.

Know that they had access to yeah yeah and when we're young and we come up with tools like kids aren't good at raising themselves okay but that's what they do right they need to.

Sometimes they raise their parents sometimes they.

Raise their parents isn't that fascinating yep.

What happens to someone who is maybe the oldest sibling that has to take care of their mom or father's emotions or lack of control or bad behavior or they need to go work at an early age to support the parent what happens to that type of person who experiences that in their life yeah.

So so they become a harvard trained psychiatrist that's one of the things they do like i was such a parentified child oh my goodness i was such a parentified child i took care of my siblings i took care of my mother i was trying to manage my father you know like so they become therapists they become healthcare workers like when you learn that you have to caretake as a way of protection like if i manage to survive then if i manage you and your drinking then you'll maybe take care of me oh man but that never happens it doesn't happen.

But it's just keep searching for that.

But it's like it's you're searching for right so if i take care of everybody maybe i'll be loved oh right so i become a consummate caretaker like huge right we have a lot of caretakers in this world and culture and society and like er doctors like there's so many places where people care take in an attempt first of all to focus on somebody else instead of themselves and secondly in an attempt you're going to like me and love me and then i'll get what i need if i take care of you i might get what i need in return so.

Intentions are it sounds good of like i want to be of service which is a great thing and a great intention but when it's i need to be in service to someone because then maybe i'll get love that's right that's right then you just keep doing you're.

Chasing love one hundred percent that's why it's called to be loved like that was my whole life that's why that title was so perfect if i if i'm of service from self it's not about me it's about a bigger cause i'm here to help from a different place what is self versus what being of service versus trying to get something parts have an intention of protection and that's the difference there's a difference between i really do love helping people when i have to in order to get worth it's a different story ooh then.

There'S like resentment and frustration and anger.

And then that's when you lose it on somebody like you know after all.

But parents do this you don't appreciate me you know how much i've done.

For you you know how much i've done for you yeah exactly i mean.

That seems like a common theme for a lot of parents almost be for all parents but it's like people can resonate with that where it's like yeah parents were frustrated with me because i didn't listen or i was rambunctious or i know i was like jumping on the walls half the time that's right and you'll hear you know people say that my parents would say these things like oh after all i've done for you you don't appreciate me you don't you know you don't listen to me you just take advantage of me right that doesn't seem healthy but what can parents do to realize okay kids are going to be kids and maybe it's not this perfect world every day where they're like listening to me and quiet and patient and well so how can parents shift their energy to appreciate bringing life into the world as opposed to needing appreciation from a five year old.

Right so what ends up happening and doctor becky's somebody who i know i.

Don'T know if you know yeah i've.

Had her on i thought you've had her on she's great she's so good she gets she's a big ifs aligned person too and so she she really her parenting stuff is so solid i love what she has to say and a lot of it is parents often get activated about their kids behavior because of their own stuff of their history and my message is do your work so you don't say and i've said it do you know how much i've done for you i've said it my parents said it and i used to say as a kid i used to say as a kid i didn't ask to be born like that's what i would say to them when they would like shove this appreciation when i heard myself say it to my kids i'm like oh my god this is horrible like how painful to do what was done to yourself you know but when i looked a little deeper like if i behaved the way my kids were behaving entitled and not appreciative i would have gotten beaten so i want to stop their behavior so it doesn't activate.

My own to want to beat them or hit them or spank them stop.

Doing this because it's too uncomfortable for me because it reminds me my history wow do you see that and so that's the cycle the parents are in that they're not aware of so when you start doing this stuff to your kids and everybody does it unfortunately then it's like do your work i have done more healing in my life through my children than anybody else or any other therapist like they have brought this stuff to my attention you know i started becoming my father in the negative ways in the negative in the wounded ways the wounded ways and that was that was shot me into therapy for the third time is when i had kids and i started yelling at them and i was like i grew up with this the reason i had kids was to not to give them something else and here i'm doing it and it was like when what was inside.

Of you that was doing it yeah.

Because when my boys would fight i have two kind of rambunctious boys when they would fight i can remember feeling panic inside because if i yelled and screamed like that i would have gotten beaten so every time they fought my history showed up instead of like they're boys come on guys let's behave when you're not activated by your history you're like hey you know what we don't throw toys if you're upset use your words like there's a way to react when you're not activated yes anytime you lose it it's about your history when it's intense it's yours i think i.

Heard maybe it was gabor mate that said if it's hysterical it's historical that's.

Exactly right yeah that's exactly right if.

It'S hysterical it's historical yes that's correct people don't know that because you're because it's like if you're seeing a situation two kids running around and hitting each other stealing something from and screaming and yelling and you're reactive it's cause you're triggered by an event that you haven't faced and processed fully yet correct from your past correct otherwise it would just be a neutral event and if it didn't happen to you or if it didn't trigger you you just say hey guys break this up or what are we doing you know it's like let's get to your room and take a.

Break people don't know that and people don't want they're like it frustrates me that there's so many parenting there's so many books about kids behavior there's not many books about parents behavior doctor shefali is another one she's great she's also very aligned in this right yeah you know she's she's aligned conscious parenting is powerful huge and parents are like these kids are blah blah blah versus oh i've got work to do unresolved his.

How many parents do you think in america repeat the patterns of their parents unconsciously and have not done the work to create new tools to parent from a conscious way well most of us.

Really i'm sorry most of us i did drove me crazy to be a trauma expert like i teach this for a living people pay me money and i still did it and it's not it's because awareness does nothing for change.

Really awareness does nothing for change not.

Like that not when it's trauma not when it's trauma because it comes up inside of you and it takes you over right i'm like i do know better i had so much self loathing every time i lost it with my.

Kids afterwards like later that night you're like what am i doing yeah that's i'm out of integrity because i'm teaching one thing but i'm doing the opposite.

So painful that's where i got suicidal in my life really that's the only times i got suicidal was when i did what was done to me it was like i would rather be dead oh my gosh than perpetuate this i swear that's that it was so painful i'm like and i couldn't help people all day long because my history wasn't being activated so you could see it.

From a separate situation and give the best advice in the world yeah i.

Know what's i like do appropriate for a living it's ridiculous i do and then yet i saw myself doing it.

It was crazy it's the season to come together over your holiday favorites at starbucks warm up with a creamy caramel brulee latte get festive with an iced gingerbread chai or share a velvety peppermint mocha together is the best place to be at starbucks.

A warm dinner a.

Full table a peace of mind for every family that's the holiday we all wish for the feeding america network helps make it possible not just for one family but for communities everywhere because when we act together hope grows give now and your impact may be doubled visit feedingamerica dot org holiday when did you.

Start to shift emotionally it sounds like the body was keeping the score for you when you had children and for those years and you would do things that were out of integrity with what you wanted your highest self to do.

That'S right that's right and then you.

Would beat yourself up and self loathing and shame and guilt and resentment and all these emotions that don't serve yourself and becoming better so what was the process as a harvard trained psychiatrist and a trauma therapist for twenty thirty years what was the process for you to get out of depression suicidal thoughts and overwhelm to be more of peace and harmony when kids would act out i.

Just it's so i was like i was like you're on rinse and repeat frank like you just you're on rinse and repeat how many years of therapy like i just did a keynote recently at the networker i'm like i'm wondering if therapy is the way to go like i've been in for thirty three years like maybe it's not the right way but it's more about like this is where you get into resilience i have been trying i will never stop trying i think we're here on this earth in human form to have difficult experiences people like to hear that sorry i think we're not only here to.

Have difficult experiences we could have loving fun experiences too yeah yeah but i.

Think from a soul level we're here to grow and evolve and if you i like the three i have my three r's you repeat it you repress it or you repair it okay so i've been one of these people i don't know why i'm one of these people who's constantly trying to repair constantly trying to repair right and this is what we do with every moment we have a choice we repress it most of us repress our trauma we repeat it over and over again or we repair it take advantage of those opportunities right and i'm a i'm i know now i know i never knew i was smart because i was criticized a lot i'm a smart person i know that and i still did it because my history was in me and now i don't like i am so my kids are sixteen and twenty and my son my oldest can yell and scream at me like any twenty year old can and i don't react anymore i.

Don'T how did you learn how to not react but also not get take you know getting you know letting a boundary cross over whereas you can't talk.

To me that way i'm gonna walk out of this room right now that is really not okay i'm not gonna tolerate this and i'm not gonna engage with you when you're like this i couldn't do that before how did you.

Learn to not let it boil inside of you and think this ungrateful child who i've given my life to i.

Didn'T learn it i healed it that's what i did i tried to learn it i tried to learn it so.

There'S a difference between analytical understanding versus.

Physical wisdom that's right the physical wisdom is releasing the trauma the physical wisdom i don't have to try hard anymore it's not in me the trauma is not in me i used to have this crazy startle my kids we'd have a trampoline in the backyard one would jump on me from behind and i'd freak out because of my startle it.

Was like a trigger like if someone.

Was a reaction yeah it was like like this and i would say to them like hey remember papa said he was hurt when he was younger that's why he reacts this way like i didn't want them to take responsibility for my reaction but i still had it.

But you didn't own it and release.

It i couldn't i didn't really at that point i didn't release it you know now i don't hold startle so much anymore cause it was physical it was a physical abuse i worked on early on and i released it and now i don't hold the startle it's funny we watched stranger things with my youngest son he loves stranger things it's such a trauma it's very dark it's traumatizing and my husband's jumping like a mexican jumping bean and i wasn't i'm like i don't have jump scares anymore like i used to because i released them wow so it's like when you release it you don't get activated by it anymore wow so that's the point like i'm not done i'm not done but i am so much more myself than i've ever been in my life and i could tolerate my feelings other people's feelings so much more than i ever am i perfect at it hell no but every layer that you release.

You'Re more you yeah and you're expanding your capacity for uncomfortable emotions yes you're expanding the ability to sit with them to witness them without being wounded by these emotions or reactions or overwhelming life.

Experiences i told you with my mom i'm like look mom if you decide never to see me again because this is too painful for you i'll handle that like that i was like that's right it's not what i want no it's not what i want but i can tolerate that because i'm choosing me and i deserve to be listened to prioritize and take i love myself yes.

Enough my i mean i feel like there's a lot of people watching or listening that have probably experienced some type of challenge in family or relationships or whatever might be where they have love and also frustration and hate yes with someone in their life right that's right family member and other uncle a father whatever my grandparent whatever it might be right we all do and my my intention is never to break people up right to get them to leave a relationship or end or create a divorce that's never my intention yeah because i believe it is powerful to be family and connected even if there's discomfort or frustration or someone doesn't approve of your life choices or whatever it might be so how can people not say screw you you don't understand me you frustrate me so i'm going to tell you that this doesn't work for me i'm going to divorce you in this relationship family member friend whatever it is how can they cautiously communicate in a loving appreciative way yes and create a boundary if someone doesn't want to receive that so or they're not kicking them out of their life forever so the screw.

You or kicking them out of your life forever is a protector that's a protective response it's a wounded response it's i'm wounded so i'm gonna do do this to you to protect myself okay so and we do that all the time and that is a reactivity or the shutting down and disconnecting the ghosting people and never calling back you know like those are those are setting a boundary from a protector to protect our pain which is very different than what i did with my mom i'm like i love you i was setting a boundary from self i love you i care about you i want you in my life i'll do anything i can to help you if you can't join me for whatever reason that's up to you and i will deal with the consequences of that but i love myself and i'm choosing me over disconnection to make you feel better wow okay so that's coming from a different place so we set boundaries from a place of love yes you know i organize a funeral for my dad because i wanted to i wanted to give him a good send off you know and it was from a place of love you know you could say no from a place of love like this doesn't work that's what i'm doing with my kids now it's like that doesn't work for me i'm sorry i don't want to be yelled at you're angry i'm open to hearing about it but not this way yes when you're ready let's go.

You can calm down or we can.

Talk yeah yeah yeah so it's from where it comes from so the boundary is different when it's reactive yes or shut down because that's protective versus when it's coming from a place of love.

Wow.

You are the expert on trauma one of the experts on trauma in the world today it seems like a lot of people are over sharing their traumas online right before they've actually gone through the four step process and done the three things of transforming their traumas and it seems like this trauma dumping is happening without a processing privately or with a professional first what are your thoughts on people sharing their traumas online and should people share things that they've struggled with online is the right time to do it or people oversharing too.

Much yeah it's a great that's the downside with everybody joining up to try to help when we all come together to try and help not everybody's doing it for from the healthiest place right so that's one of the downsides what i say to people and even when if you want to confront somebody who's harmed you confront a perpetrator in any form heal first confront second heal first confront second because typically what you do once you heal you see the wound in your perpetrator that's what typically ends.

Up yeah and you can i mean it's hard it's it's hard to hear this if you haven't you can see the compa you can have complexity passion for the complexity of what that person was doing it doesn't mean you agree or say they're okay no you don't.

Agree or condone but you can see it like my dad is like he was a wounded person he had limitations i could see that now and the.

Little boy inside of me was the recipient of someone else's actions and this is not okay and it hurt me and it huge all of it conditioned me for many years of my life it ruined parts of me and there was anger and wounds that he put me through this conversion therapy and these things caused all this pain in my life but if you can step back and look at it you can still see at least i know where it's.

Coming from and i don't take responsibility for it anymore i don't hate myself about it anymore i don't even hate him about it it was what was happened i wouldn't be sitting across from you right now if it wasn't for him wow i wouldn't be you wouldn't.

Care about this work i wouldn't be.

A trauma expert yeah i wouldn't be helping people so i have gratitude now i mean this is a long time this is a long time so i'm not i don't want people to feel bad about themselves if ever we're all at different stages i've been sixty years old i've been doing this since you're.

Sixty sixty years old how is that possible you look like forty man that's.

Because of healing that's what i tell people they're like go to skincare line frank i'm like no it's not skincare it's releasing trauma wow it's releasing trauma i think i look younger the more i release i think we all do honestly because you feel lighter i'm not carrying stuff i'm not carrying it anymore right so yes it's possible for people yes you can do it i don't want people to feel bad the trauma dumping is sharing before you've healed and.

You'Re gonna and people get a lot of attention they get a lot of like validation and then they keep doing it from a wounded place yes it.

Increases the us them mentality that's the thing that i'm like ah you're all good and we're all bad like you know but this early premature trauma dumping doesn't really help now i'm trying to create i'm trying as i move out of therapy therapy is great don't get me wrong it's not enough to heal the world there's limited resources we don't have enough therapists so i'm trying to bring this to the general public so that people there are safe ways for people to do that we're creating this part of what the trauma institute is trying to create ways if you can't afford it you don't have those resources that there might be ways to do that i'm really working hard on that but trauma dumping is not helping even though a part gets heard it's not done safely it's not done with permission if you trauma dump all parts of you don't agree to share the internal parts of you the internal parts i say is everybody okay with sharing is.

Everyone in alignment with this is everyone.

In alignment with this or just the.

Wounded part of you right then you.

Share from a different place when everyone's aligned so i'm mixed about it like yeah there's too many people showing up doing it i don't want to say the wrong way doing it in an uninformed way that re traumatizing when it's re traumatizing when you relive something we know this from neuroscience reliving reinforces the trauma neural network being with it is the space to allow the transformation stuff.

To occur what's the difference between reliving it and being with it yes what.

Is that i'll give you an example like i'm so sick and tired of you you do this to me over and over again that's in it okay that's in it right and you could feel can't you feel emotional yeah and it's like all of me feels this about all of you and all i'm.

Gonna you always do that yes i'm.

Gonna get i'm not gonna get thanks for sharing frank i'm gonna get a defensive response back yes that's your natural instinct if i say a part of me was so upset by what you did the other day that really hurt me when you said that then you're like oh so he doesn't hate me.

Not you ruined my life i didn't.

Ruin his life you're like oh that thing i did was harmful to him i get that you're much more likely to say i get it i'm sorry about that here's what was going on for me right so that's the being in it it's so like encompassing and it and it's not effective it never works nobody's like thanks for sharing wow when we're in it wow and so it's the being with is it possible.

For someone to heal without a therapist a priest a psychiatrist who's actually helping them release their trauma that's what i'm.

Working on i'm not one hundred percent certain i want to do this there's other people working on it as we mentioned i want to kind of create a safe way to do this because there's peer support things that are helpful to a point like one of the things i want to teach people is when can you do it on your own and when do you need to get extra support right when you're able to be with it you can do more when you start slipping in it you've lost perspective so that's one of the guidelines i did a course recently with a writer who writes memoirs also lissa rankin i know lissa yeah you know lissa right to heal we did write to heal we just did a course and we're trying to teach people and i did like we set up this structure and guidelines of how to write from the part how to write a love letter to the part so we're working on different ways i feel like we're working on how do i heal because i know there's a lot of people out there who don't have these resources and there's a lot of trauma so i'm really working on and you know i want us to collectively work on it right to bring this to people so that if you can't you know when you need to get help or how to get help and i don't know you you talked about these moments in your life like with my husband i had so many corrective experiences with him like that was that's been a very healing relationship you know so we can heal in relationship under the right circumstances that are not therapeutic yeah two right you know what i mean sometimes friendships i have friends that are just like can be so vulnerable too and it feels so good i don't have a ton of them but we can heal in relationships that's powerful.

Yeah i wanted to ask you about drugs with mental health or trauma i.

Was gonna say which drugs are you talking about there's a lot of them.

I do my best to come from an open mind when it comes to i guess prescription drugs yes with someone dealing with mental health trauma yeah you know depression all these different things yep but sometimes i feel like people bypass the work first yep to get a relief of i'm overwhelmed i'm stressed i'm mentally struggling i'm depressed i'm suicidal thinking yes give me a drug to feel.

Better one hundred percent.

What are your.

Thoughts on this because you've prescribed this as a psychiatrist to patients and clients before do you feel like too many people are quickly jumping to prescription drugs to heal a symptom versus turning around and facing themselves doing the process you talked about and actually going through the pain which feels like you're gonna die sometimes yes it feels feels life threatening when you face the wounds it is horrendous so i understand it is probably the hardest work you'll ever do that's right but what are the complications of going for prescription depression antidepressant drugs first before working through the pain emotionally the.

Holidays are back at starbucks so share the season with a peppermint mocha starbucks signature espresso velvety mocha and cool peppermint notes topped with whipped cream and dark chocolate curls together is the best place to be at starbucks.

There'S saving for.

Retirement and then there's living in it.

At fidelity we can help you make that transition and plan for whatever comes next with a free personalized income plan.

You can view and manage your cash.

Flow across accounts plus you'll get investing income to help you make your savings last ready to take on retirement get started at fidelity dot com income planning expenses charged by your investments and other costs and fees associated with trading or transacting in your account apply fidelity brokerage.

Services member nyse sipc yeah so i'm not an anti drug person and i'm not a drug first person right i i used to do a lot of psychopharmacology lectures there's neurobiological i teach about the neurobiology of ptsd and dissociation and when you're in hyper aroused ptsd you have low serotonin you have low gaba you have high cortisol high cortisol high norepinephrine there's a real biologic i mean i teach this stuff in my sleep so there's real biological dysregulation so when you have ptsd you do can benefit from increasing your serotonin or decreasing your norepinephrine or dopamine okay so there are.

Also natural ways to do that right.

There'S natural ways to do it and the drugs aren't wrong at all if they're used appropriately i think of medications as therapy enhancers that's the way i think of them when somebody can't be with because they're too flooded use the meds to help lower the intensity so you can be with meds don't do the work meds do not do the work we can have a whole nother episode on psychedelics at another time because there's a whole world of the psychedelics mdma ketamine all those drugs i'm steeped in that world too because people are.

Rushing to those i get so worried about that i know i get worried and then they're like i'm healed and then three weeks later they're like they're not i'm gonna break down again well.

It doesn't work and i have very good friends who are very thoughtful trauma therapists who are doing amazing work with psychedelics too so they're enhancers got it and if you have enough knowledge to know when it's like when do you need therapy when can you do the work on your own when would medications benefit you and when are you using them as a replacement like both are true do you know what i mean there's a lot of people that are like these hippie anti drug people i'm like that's ignoring science and i got ptsd take a bill that's ignoring reality.

Both extremes are harmful again i try to have an open mind about this.

I can hear your energy though i feel it but and oh good because.

We live in the world of ands here yes and i also worry about external chemicals influencing internal the internal pharmacy that we naturally have just like you said the wisdom is within us at birth and five we have to tap into it we've got to shut up the clutter and the chaos and all these things i get it it's like how do we know that medication also won't harm our chemistry in the future if we do too much of it.

We don't know that and shift of.

Us needing it to then be self regulated that's my worry in a world of anns it's a big deal with.

The add meds for example the add meds are very complicated especially from childhood.

As we're developing our brains exactly so.

It'S very complicated you're bringing up something that's important important for people to pay attention to and let's be thoughtful about it like i used them at one point in my healing i couldn't do the work i couldn't do the work that makes sense i couldn't i was so i was depressed i was taken over by it the therapy wasn't helpful because i didn't i needed and i did it for probably two years maybe is what i did and it helped.

Me then you got off of it.

I got off of it it helped me do the work yeah that's good it helped me do the work like if you can't do the work it can help you versus use it instead of doing the work no yeah yeah.

And it's if you're willing to do it and say okay i'm intensely doing the work now yes yeah and it's a both and yeah then it's like okay yeah if i'm unable to do the work and i've tried and tried and done all these different things that's not working then try it and try it but also do the work with.

It right don't just take the med it's not a replacer it's not a replacer it's an enhancer of the work that's good that's the way i think.

About it i like that philosophy you.

Know yeah that's good and to be really thoughtful about the long term effects of these medicines i think it's important because there is a culture like let's do everything quickly there's such a culture.

In that or put a band aid on it or just give it relief.

Yes we're so like self technology has made us so instantaneous some of the pill stuff folds right into that you know what i mean and like i'd rather do an mdma session or a mushroom session so i don't have to.

And feel good in the moment and.

I'M like gone into la la land you know so i don't have to do the work so there's a bypass we call that bypass like a lot of people use meds a lot of people use meditation as bypass or spirituality really as bypass let me get to a higher place and ignore my trauma there's a lot of bypass in spirituality there's a lot of bypass in medication they both like i'm a very spiritual person it can really enhance the work but it can also be bypassed so.

Can medicines wow if someone knows that they have blocks they have wounds they have pain they have resentments anger inside of them and they also know that man this might take months or years to process and actually face and i've got so much at work and my family i've got to show up and like hold the ship together like i can't go through this work right now because it's going to be so painful it's going to take so much of my energy my time i'm not going to be there for my husband or my wife or my kids and my work i'm going to be in like breakdown mode yes what would you say to those individuals on what's available on the other side and is it ever a wrong time to start the work.

Yeah it's a great question and i face this a lot with a lot of people i have to tell you i can feel it as we're talking like it is really painful it is difficult to go through this i'm on the other side and my life is better than it's ever been i am doing more things than i had ever i would have never in a million years thought i would be able to live this kind of life so the benefits are enormous when we are clean and clear and truly ourselves the benefits are endless for all of us in different ways so not everybody wants to has the resources to do the work to get there and i say that's a choice i really say that's a choice most people can't slip through life without getting stopped up by it it's the third divorce it's the third kid that i can't afford that i shouldn't have had it's the job that i keep like failing at or another boss who hates me that i got fired for right so what i would say to people is how is your life and is it where you want it to be and if not which pieces do you want to change when this does not have to be done in the grueling all at once kind of way you know out here in la as i'm working more with people it's fascinating that a lot of people who are in this industry are terrified to do the work because they are afraid they're going to lose their careers over it interesting if i and i've met a lot of people who have significant trauma you don't play somebody else for a livelihood without needing to get away from something i'm not saying every actor has trauma i'm not saying that i'm saying i've worked with people who are very reluctant because there's fear that they're going to lose what they do have if they do the work i'll lose my family i'll lose this so what i say is take it one step at a time like where are you unhappy what do you want to change and then do the work around that piece do it a little bit at a time it doesn't have to be like not everybody needs to be in therapy for thirty three years sorry i don't recommend that for everybody there's a lot of money and time consuming i'm grateful but i have a purpose right so do it in phases and if it gets too hard really stop there's timing i had a piece i have my oldest son and my youngest son they're four four years and a day apart and my youngest is on the spectrum and he was a very challenging kid with many many medical problems and i couldn't i wasn't i was too overwhelmed in my life to do deep healing work then during that time i couldn't do it then i was i was barely keeping afloat right so it's like you gotta balance where you want to be where you are and what kind of resource energy and monetarily do you have when it's kind of a long life and different people do different work at different times yes you know what i mean and i can say this now at sixty like oh you're only thirty like you've got a you've got a you're at thirty like you've got a long way to go like it's okay do a piece of work now you know i did a piece of work got into a great relationship with a guy it was like i didn't repeat anything anymore i was like i'm not in repeat mode i found a good relationship and then it was these years later when we had kids that stuff came up at a different layer so i went back do you know what i mean so it doesn't have to be all at once interesting.

And what would you say is the number one emotion that blocks us from peace harmony and ultimate happiness shame i.

Think it's shame like shame is so toxic and shame is usually the result of relational trauma really when does shame occur i write about this it can happen brene brown talks about shame in a way that i love also i think from a i write about shame from a trauma a relational trauma perspective and there's two shame cycles that i talk about within trauma within relational trauma one is when you're verbally or physically abused you worthless piece of okay you internalize i'm a worthless piece of so you have a part that holds shame i shame is not i did something wrong shame is i am bad so when we are when there's an external shamer we develop an internal shamer and an internal shamed wow okay you worthless piece of if you behave we won't get in trouble so when you're critically abused verbally abused or externally shamed you have a shame wound i'm bad i'm.

No good is that sexual abuse too.

Sexual abuse can yeah it's it's yeah sec i would say sexual abuse too it's interesting it's i just feel that so powerfully like it adds another dimension to it like i am it's like the worth worthless it adds another layer of shame right you can relate it from your own history right so it's it's yeah it's i would say it's a another depth another layer another layer of i am horrible i am bad that's one shame cycle that can be healed okay and that's the wound is i am no good it takes a long time to heal shame wounds they can be healed but it takes a long time it's such a physiologically powerful emotion and it's so reflexive and reactive.

Right instantaneous it's probably why you had this kind of reaction when your kids would jump on your back you're like.

Ah it's just it's so reflexive the other shame wound comes from neglect and.

That could be big t neglect or.

Little t neglect i am so bad that my parent doesn't even care i'm so bad that i'm not worth food or clothing or a hug or love or affection or love or affection so when it's neglected and i call this one the hyper aroused you yelling and screaming this one's the hypo aroused numb detached disconnected and then you develop an internal shamer or disconnector like those are the people who are disconnected from themselves because they've learned that disconnection is a way of being in the world wow see so those are two such shame cycles that i work with in relational trauma all different versions over and over.

How is someone who is disconnected or analytical and not in their body and connected to their heart yes based on conditionings of neglect and shame yep how does someone like that learn to heat process and heal so they are fully in their body and in their heart and connected to themselves and the world.

That was so when i had the smart intellectual protector in a big way.

I'M going to know it all you.

Don'T get to harvard like i was like yeah like and i was who.

I was your identity who i was.

I am smart and it was you know intellectual fills a void intellect fills the void the shame void it's like really and those parts if i feel.

Worthless then this will help me not.

Feel worthless i'm gonna fill the space i'm gonna figure it out i'm gonna understand it i'm gonna solve the problem right and those parts have a very hard time stepping back if i step back there's nothing if i don't lead.

With my intellect or showcase my abilities.

Or skills i'm nothing i'm nothing so right like wow and it's so powerful so it takes those are those are take a long time to work with those and i remember the moment that that i wasn't like fully identified with that part it's like it was it was a like it was like one of these like identity crises it's like who am i who am i if i'm not smart you know like then it was where i was like oh you're funny and oh you like this like i started seeing the other dimensions but for the longest time it was like i write about this in the book i used to run home with a's on my report card hoping my dad will love me like this is she's gonna love me now the gold stars on the report card you know.

Perfect gpa top of the class driven.

For achievement to get love did he.

Ever acknowledge you or love you when.

You had a's it didn't he acknowledged we got a dollar for every a back in the day okay we got a dollar for every a okay so but it didn't get me what i wanted it didn't get me love really it didn't get me love you know.

So you got rewarded in monetary ways but not emotional or affectionate ways exactly.

So it took those people that are.

All left brained how does someone learn how to fully love and love themselves and give themselves affection when their parents didn't have the tools or wasn't in their dna to touch hug kiss and love on their kids and i said when i went to japan last year i saw this and i heard this from many people that said just the culture i'm sure some people didn't do this but the culture in general that's right just wasn't affectionate with kids and it's very academic driven achievement driven you know type of culture again not all parents were this way but it seems like this was the the culture and they grew up not able to express their emotions that's as fully based because of that that's right so if someone was raised without affection from their parents love attention how they how do they learn to give themselves affection and be comfortable receiving from others when they never received from their parents yes it's a.

Great question because it is i'm going to say it's possible i do believe it's possible and it's undoing a lot of family legacy cultural trauma transgenerational trauma okay so there's a lot that comes up in transgenerational trauma around that doctor.

Marielle bouquet talks about it generational trauma.

That'S exactly right huge we all grow up in some form of a family that we've internalized the messages through ethnicity through the family culture through you know so you we internalize that stuff that's also not our energy it's energy we absorb because of the family we're in gosh okay so once you differentiate who you are from what you were subjected to who you are from what you were subjected to or what family you were born into what's yours what isn't yours right and this idea we all have love within us yes we all have it so even if you're programmed not to we all have it we.

All have it man your book to be loved a story of truth trauma and transformation by frank anderson is a powerful story about just kind of the life you've been through and the different levels of traumas and challenges and therapies and experiences is a beautiful story i want people to get this because i think a lot of people can relate in some way to their own life one hundred percent about what they've experienced what they've gone through and how to find hope and healing no matter how much trauma you've experienced that's right what type of disconnection you've had how you've been abused abandoned forgotten dismissed that's right in your uniqueness in the world and how to love and acknowledge people even if they've treated you poorly as parents and see them from a compassionate place without condoning their behaviors and actions toward you as a child one of the exercises i have experienced that is probably one of the most healing for me as i'd done the had been doing the work for a while was revisiting i'm getting chills just thinking about it was revisiting the five year old in front of me and having a beautiful conversation and experience with my five year old self that's right and bringing him into my heart and reconnecting with that wounded boy that's right and as an adult self being able to hug and give him what he needed and also thank him for going through the challenge and the struggle for facing these confusing times as a child without the tools and saying thank you for getting us here i got your back now and i can take us to the next place one hundred percent thank you for enduring this confusing painful life yeah you shouldn't have had to experience this that's right i acknowledge you for not hurting yourself more than you did not beating yourself up more than you did and for doing your best that's right i love you i accept you and i appreciate you and and i and i got you one hundred one of the most beautiful right exercises that i have done for my all the parts of.

Myself that's right that's the transformation thing i was talking about it's a beautiful example of that it is yeah and.

I think you know your book gives us kind of this journey of how we can do this with ourselves and different parts of ourselves and just understands the complexity of the human experience because it's in my opinion the most beautiful experience but it can also be the most challenging confusing experience at the same time because we live in a world of ands yep people can get the book right now to be loved also your website frankendersonmd dot com you're also on social media more now frank anderson maryland if they just google that they'll find all of your social media links you're also working on the trauma institute which people can find as well on your website and learn more about how they can use the tools and training and courses to support them on their own journey if they can't afford therapy at this moment or they're not ready for it or they want to do it on their own to get started and dabble in it so i highly recommend that you are you know you've been in this work with the leaders of psychiatry psychology therapy trauma for decades in this work and you studied with worked with and know all of the top experts you're constantly learning so this book will be a great resource for anyone looking to reclaim themselves and to feel fully loved and healed in their journey so i'm so grateful that you're here and i acknowledge you for the pain you have endured and the suffering that you have experienced throughout different seasons of your life and the gift you give all of us by saying this pain i'm going to create meaning from this pain and trauma and suffering and i'm going to find out why this is happening so i can serve people so they don't have to experience this pain and suffering as well so i want to acknowledge you for the gift of continuing your journey of growth your gift of finding ways to bring academic academic research and science to the masses so that we can understand the complicated yes and just acknowledge you frank for your for your big heart and tapping into your heart and getting out of your head yeah you're a beautiful human being thank you two final questions i have for you this is called the three truths question so it's a hypothetical scenario imagine you get to live as long as you want in this world but it's your last day you could be as old as you want you know science has gotten you to one hundred plus something years old you still have the same skin you know at one hundred so you look thirty but for whatever reason it's the last day for you hypothetically you get to create everything you want to witness experience everything you want from this moment until then but for whatever reason in this hypothetical question all of your content is gone from the world we don't have access to your book this conversation course anything you create for whatever reason it's gone but on the last day you get to leave behind three lessons from all of your life's experience and this is all we would have to remember and be reminded of and i call it the three truths question what were those three truths that you think everyone needs to know that you would share so.

We all we all have love in us even our enemies we all have trauma that can be healed and really nothing else is more important than love and connection like it's interesting when you were saying that part of me instantly flashed to my kids and then my husband and then my siblings right it's like the people that are important to me right and then you're like all your books and information are gone the other piece was like but wait a minute like i want to get this message of trauma blocks love love heals trauma to the world you know and so i would say those the three things encapsulate that the importance of love and connection the fact that we all have it in us and it can.

Be healed final question frank what's your.

Definition of greatness love and kindness honestly love and kindness there you go frank.

Thanks so much for being here appreciate.

You i hope today's episode inspired you on your journey towards greatness make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a rundown of today's show with all the important links and if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me as well as ad free listening experience make sure to subscribe to our greatness plus channel on apple podcast if you enjoy enjoyed this please share it with a friend over on social media or text a friend leave us a review over on apple podcast and let me know what you learned over.

On our social media channels at lewishouse.

I really love hearing the feedback from you and it helps us continue to make the show better and if you want more inspiration from our world class guests and content to learn how to improve the quality of your life then make sure to sign up for the greatness newsletter and get it delivered right to your inbox or over at greatness dot com newsletter and if no one has told you today i want to remind you that you are loved you are worthy and you matter and now it's time to go out there and.

Do something great.

At capella university we believe accessible education can make a difference in people's lives that's why we offer scholarship opportunities to all eligible students whether you're considering a bachelor's master's or doctoral degree our teams will walk you through the process and help you get the savings you are eligible for furthering your education is an investment in yourself entonces que estasperando un futuro diferente esta macerca de lo cac cres con capella university learn more at capella edu they say if you want to go fast go alone but if you want to go far go together at amica insurance we know what matters most to you.

And.

We work even harder to protect it together as a mutual insurance company we're built for our customers and prioritize your needs amica empathy is our best policy visit amica dot com and get a quote today.